Andronovo GEDmatch results

[8888]

F999947 / Andronovo-RISE500

Kit F999947

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.41
2 Baltic 38.28
3 West_Asian 15.04
4 South_Asian 1.59
5 Amerindian 0.59
6 West_Med 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Swedish 12.86
2 Swedish 14.06
3 Southwest_Finnish 15.54
4 North_German 15.66
5 Norwegian 16.01
6 Danish 17.1
7 North_Dutch 17.51
8 East_German 18.09
9 Finnish 18.27
10 South_Polish 18.31
11 Polish 18.86
12 Austrian 19.06
13 Estonian 19.65
14 Irish 19.69
15 La_Brana-1 19.85
16 Hungarian 19.88
17 Orcadian 19.93
18 Ukrainian_Lviv 20.42
19 Russian_Smolensk 20.45
20 West_Scottish 20.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.9% North_Swedish + 15.1% Tabassaran @ 10.34
2 86.1% North_Swedish + 13.9% Lezgin @ 10.58
3 86.8% North_Swedish + 13.2% Chechen @ 10.84
4 90.3% North_Swedish + 9.7% Balochi @ 10.98
5 90.7% North_Swedish + 9.3% Brahui @ 11.06
6 89.7% North_Swedish + 10.3% Kalash @ 11.18
7 89.2% North_Swedish + 10.8% North_Ossetian @ 11.29
8 91.1% North_Swedish + 8.9% Makrani @ 11.33
9 89.1% North_Swedish + 10.9% Afghan_Pashtun @ 11.33
10 89.3% North_Swedish + 10.7% Adygei @ 11.37
11 89.1% North_Swedish + 10.9% Kabardin @ 11.46
12 90% North_Swedish + 10% Ossetian @ 11.48
13 91.6% North_Swedish + 8.4% Abhkasian @ 11.55
14 91.2% North_Swedish + 8.8% Georgian @ 11.56
15 89.6% North_Swedish + 10.4% Kumyk @ 11.61
16 90.1% North_Swedish + 9.9% Balkar @ 11.64
17 68.6% Swedish + 31.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.68
18 89.4% North_Swedish + 10.6% Tadjik @ 11.72
19 91.5% North_Swedish + 8.5% Pathan @ 11.72
20 61% Norwegian + 39% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.73


HarappaWorld

Kit F999947

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 56.93
2 Mediterranean 18.4
3 Baloch 18.21
4 Caucasian 3.11
5 American 1.78
6 Siberian 0.83
7 W-African 0.48
8 S-Indian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 mordovian (yunusbayev) 13.68
2 ukranian (yunusbayev) 13.84
3 utahn-white (hapmap) 14.73
4 n-european (xing) 14.79
5 belorussian (behar) 15.04
6 orcadian (hgdp) 15.21
7 russian (hgdp) 15.29
8 utahn-white (1000genomes) 16.33
9 british (1000genomes) 16.69
10 slovenian (xing) 16.73
11 hungarian (behar) 17.28
12 lithuanian (behar) 17.33
13 russian (behar) 17.52
14 chuvash (behar) 22.67
15 french (hgdp) 24.06
16 finnish (1000genomes) 29.94
17 romanian-a (behar) 30.38
18 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 32.56
19 spaniard (behar) 35.8
20 spaniard (1000genomes) 36.76

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.3% lithuanian (behar) + 19.7% brahui (hgdp) @ 7.05
2 80% lithuanian (behar) + 20% balochi (hgdp) @ 7.41
3 80.3% lithuanian (behar) + 19.7% makrani (hgdp) @ 7.44
4 78.8% lithuanian (behar) + 21.2% bhatia (harappa) @ 8.75
5 80.2% lithuanian (behar) + 19.8% sindhi (hgdp) @ 8.78
6 54.2% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 45.8% orcadian (hgdp) @ 8.82
7 80.1% lithuanian (behar) + 19.9% punjabi-arain (xing) @ 9.08
8 78.7% lithuanian (behar) + 21.3% burusho (hgdp) @ 9.1
9 79% lithuanian (behar) + 21% kalash (hgdp) @ 9.13
10 78.5% lithuanian (behar) + 21.5% pathan (hgdp) @ 9.13
11 78.5% lithuanian (behar) + 21.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) @ 9.29
12 76.6% lithuanian (behar) + 23.4% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 9.36
13 50.2% orcadian (hgdp) + 49.8% russian (hgdp) @ 9.36
14 75.3% lithuanian (behar) + 24.7% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 9.4
15 79.5% lithuanian (behar) + 20.5% sindhi (harappa) @ 9.48
16 58.3% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 41.7% british (1000genomes) @ 9.53
17 84.7% belorussian (behar) + 15.3% brahui (hgdp) @ 9.57
18 80.4% lithuanian (behar) + 19.6% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 9.67
19 80.5% lithuanian (behar) + 19.5% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 9.7
20 78.3% lithuanian (behar) + 21.7% pashtun (harappa) @ 9.78


Dodecad V3

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_European 50.67
2 East_European 23.48
3 Mediterranean 13.03
4 West_Asian 7.22
5 South_Asian 4.12
6 Northeast_Asian 0.96
7 Neo_African 0.37
8 Palaeo_African 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 German (Dodecad) 11.07
2 FIN (1000Genomes) 12.21
3 Slovenian (Xing) 14.36
4 N._European (Xing) 15.36
5 Argyll (1000 Genomes) 15.4
6 Orkney (1000 Genomes) 16.57
7 Orcadian (HGDP) 16.69
8 CEU (HapMap) 16.7
9 Hungarians (Behar) 17.22
10 Swedish (Dodecad) 17.45
11 Finnish (Dodecad) 18.92
12 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 20.57
13 Norwegian (Dodecad) 20.91
14 Dutch (Dodecad) 22.2
15 Kent (1000 Genomes) 23.8
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 24.48
17 Polish (Dodecad) 24.64
18 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 25.04
19 British (Dodecad) 25.08
20 Cornwall (1000 Genomes) 25.82

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54% Irish (Dodecad) + 46% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.52
2 55.8% British_Isles (Dodecad) + 44.2% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.7
3 54.4% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 45.6% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.73
4 55.1% British (Dodecad) + 44.9% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.79
5 56.5% Kent (1000 Genomes) + 43.5% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.95
6 60.2% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 39.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 5.06
7 55.7% N._European (Xing) + 44.3% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 5.1
8 58.3% Dutch (Dodecad) + 41.7% Russian (HGDP) @ 5.11
9 55.6% Argyll (1000 Genomes) + 44.4% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 5.15
10 59.5% Swedish (Dodecad) + 40.5% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 5.21
11 65.1% German (Dodecad) + 34.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 5.23
12 66.3% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 33.7% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 5.24
13 54.7% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 45.3% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 5.27
14 53.4% CEU (HapMap) + 46.6% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 5.39
15 64.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 35.1% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 5.47
16 58.2% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 41.8% Russian (Dodecad) @ 5.54
17 60.8% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 39.2% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 5.63
18 64.6% Dutch (Dodecad) + 35.4% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 5.64
19 53.5% Orcadian (HGDP) + 46.5% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 5.65
20 62.9% Swedish (Dodecad) + 37.1% Russian (Dodecad) @ 5.66

MDLP K11 2xOracle and OracleX4

Kit F999947

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 WHG 45.45
2 EHG 25.37
3 Neolithic 15.85
4 Iran-Mesolithic 10.51
5 Amerindian 1.23
6 Siberian 0.81
7 African 0.49
8 Oceanic 0.29

[Livin]

Can you say what phenotypes they were?

[8888]

Can you say what phenotypes they were?

Irano-Nordic or Corded Nordic was probably the predominant strain. Some kind of Mediterranoid was probably present too, since at that time the Nordic - Mediterranean division was less pronounced. The only certain thing is that they were predominantly dolichocephalic and were very tall for the period in question.

These ones are probably the famous ''Indo-Iranians'' who invaded India and Iran. I've seen some Punjabi scoring NW European in a GEDmatch and users here attributed it to possible English ancestry. Seeing how some Andronovo samples aren't necessarily only NE European shifted also explains that individual.

[Livin]

Irano-Nordic or Corded Nordic was probably the predominant strain. Some kind of Mediterranoid was probably present too, since at that time the Nordic - Mediterranean division was less pronounced. The only certain thing is that they were predominantly dolichocephalic and were very tall for the period in question.

These ones are probably the famous ''Indo-Iranians'' who invaded India and Iran. I've seen some Punjabi scoring NW European in a GEDmatch and users here attributed it to possible English ancestry. Seeing how some Andronovo samples aren't necessarily only NE European shifted also explains that individual.

I think this phenotypes has a good connection with this culture or no?

http://humanphenotypes.net/IndoNordic.html

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Eye color (I doubt the accuracy):
https://www.gedmatch.com/c01bbb_11_.jpg

1 lithuanian_behar + lithuanian_behar + orcadian_hgdp + tajik_yunusbayev @ 7.919766
1 Danish + Danish + Erzya + Southwest_Finnish @ 10.069948

[Leto]

Irano-Nordic or Corded Nordic was probably the predominant strain. Some kind of Mediterranoid was probably present too, since at that time the Nordic - Mediterranean division was less pronounced. The only certain thing is that they were predominantly dolichocephalic and were very tall for the period in question.

These ones are probably the famous ''Indo-Iranians'' who invaded India and Iran. I've seen some Punjabi scoring NW European in a GEDmatch and users here attributed it to possible English ancestry. Seeing how some Andronovo samples aren't necessarily only NE European shifted also explains that individual.
I think they might have resembled people like me. I pass from Tallinn to Bratislava

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I think this phenotypes has a good connection with this culture or no?

http://humanphenotypes.net/IndoNordic.html

That phenotype formed later.

[8888]

I think this phenotypes has a good connection with this culture or no?

http://humanphenotypes.net/IndoNordic.html

Yeah, but this one would be a transitional phenotype which Aryans acquired after mixing with the BMAC culture and other related neolithic cultures in Central Asia, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Anyway we can only speculate about ancient phenotypes.

Humanphenotypes is a terrible site btw.

[Livin]

That phenotype formed later.

I really wanna see how they looked like!!!!

I need a time-machine :eek:

[8888]

I think they might have resembled people like me. I pass from Tallinn to Bratislava

I think they probably resembled generic Northern European Corded influenced types. If you look similar, then yes.
It seems Andronovo was much lighter pigmented than Yamnaya.

What I find curious is that the modern descendants of Andronovo from a cultural and civilizational POV don't resemble them that much from an autossomal POV.

[Leto]

They were surely white with such DNA results. The Kashkarchi Uzbekistan samples (late Bronze Age) from one of the recent papers are similar to this one.

[Livin]

Yeah, but this one would be a transitional phenotype which Aryans acquired after mixing with the BMAC culture and other related neolithic cultures in Central Asia, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Anyway we can only speculate about ancient phenotypes.

Humanphenotypes is a terrible site btw.

Ye humanphenotypes is really bad!!!

Somones need to create a new one.

[Leto]

I think they probably resembled generic Northern European Corded influenced types. If you look similar, then yes.
It seems Andronovo was much lighter pigmented than Yamnaya.

What I find curious is that the modern descendants of Andronovo from a cultural and civilizational POV don't resemble them that much from an autossomal POV.
No, I'm more like West Baltid or something like that. East Europoid but without any Asiatic influence.

Their descendants mixed with the wogs of Central and South Asia. However their DNA can be found to this day in that region. A Punjabi from another forum gets 15% NE European on some calcs. Obviously that stuff came over to India from the Northwest.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I really wanna see how they looked like!!!!

I need a time-machine :eek:

Someone born and raised in southern Europe (like you and me) would probably mistake them for normal Eastern Europeans. They are quite distant from any modern population, and they will certainly have had a particular and unique appearance. They also had an important Caucasian mixture that phenotypically removed them from modern northern and eastern Europeans.

[8888]

They were surely white with such DNA results. The Kashkarchi Uzbekistan samples (late Bronze Age) from one of the recent papers are similar to this one.

Well, if by white you mean ''genetic European'' then yeah. But I prefer to avoid these modern made concepts when I describe ancient populations. Despite being of European background (I'm not Azerbaijani, lol), I don't think there's a ''white'' identity going from the Patagonian Irish settlers to the Russian colonists in Siberia.

I prefer to refer to populations for their ethnic designations and avoid americanisms.

[Livin]

Someone born and raised in southern Europe (like you and me) would probably mistake them for normal Eastern Europeans. They are quite distant from any modern population, and they will certainly have had a particular and unique appearance. They also had an important Caucasian mixture that phenotypically removed them from modern northern and eastern Europeans.

Witch ethic group you believe is closer to this culture now?

[Leto]

Well, if by white you mean ''genetic European'' then yeah. But I prefer to avoid these modern made concepts when I describe ancient populations. Despite being of European background (I'm not Azerbaijani, lol), I don't think there's a ''white'' identity going from the Patagonian Irish settlers until the Russian colonists in Siberia.

I prefer to refer to populations for their ethnic designations and avoid americanisms.
Yes, white is European basically, aside from various outliers (these forums sure love them so much, lol). Most of the time it's pretty clear whether someone is European (white), African (black), Chinese, Indian and so on. But sometimes I also troll some non-whites with this term for the fun of it.

[8888]

Witch ethic group you believe is closer to this culture now?

Culturally or phenotypically? If the latter, modern Lithuanians; if the former, modern Kashmiris, Kalash and other Dardic groups.

[Livin]

Culturally or phenotypically? If the latter, modern Lithuanians; if the former, modern Kashmiris, Kalash and other Dardic groups.

On phenotypes more specific.

Kalash and kashmiris are 100% ancestors of this culture.

[Leto]

Culturally or phenotypically? If the latter, modern Lithuanians; if the former, modern Kashmiris, Kalash and other Dardic groups.
Do they ride horses? The Dardics :D

[8888]

Do they ride horses? The Dardics :D

I'm talking more about religious and cultural continuity, it's pretty clear Hinduism originated from Andronovo Aryans and the ones with the most similar religion today are the Dardics. Maybe some things in Lithuanian culture, like the paganism, are similar to Andronovo as well. Some Dardic groups still practice a kind of ''proto-Hinduism/Vedism'' and Kashmiris were responsible for many of the philosophical strains of modern Hinduism.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Witch ethic group you believe is closer to this culture now?

Nobody.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Yes, white is European basically, aside from various outliers (these forums sure love them so much, lol). Most of the time it's pretty clear whether someone is European (white), African (black), Chinese, Indian and so on. But sometimes I also troll some non-whites with this term for the fun of it.

Ah ok lol, but "white", "black" are useless terms for us since we were not born in America.

[LoLeL]

Well, they did their job in Asia and then vanished. It's interesting that none of modern Central Asian ethnic groups are in the results.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

On phenotypes more specific.

Kalash and kashmiris are 100% ancestors of this culture.

In India and Pakistan, the steppe component peaks in the Jats, a non-high caste of pastoralists and farmers.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?247016-Punjabi-Haryanvi-Jat-GEDmatch-results

[Aren]

Andonovo and Sintastha derived from the CWC which explains the Atlantic and Med input. So yeah modern day South-Central Asians have actually European farmer and WHG admix aswell, although very little of it.

[8888]

Well, they did their job in Asia and then vanished. It's interesting that none of modern Central Asian ethnic groups are in the results.

Yeah, because they mixed with the BMAC culture and later with Dravidians and Veddoids in India. But modern Afghans, Punjabis, Dardic groups and Pakis carry a bit of their blood.

[8888]

In India and Pakistan, the steppe component peaks in the Jats, a non-high caste of pastoralists and farmers.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?247016-Punjabi-Haryanvi-Jat-GEDmatch-results

Jatts received a later steppe influence from the Scythians. Most of their steppe isn't from the Aryans, but from Scythians.

[Leto]

Andonovo and Sintastha derived from the CWC which explains the Atlantic and Med input. So yeah modern day South-Central Asians have actually European farmer and WHG admix aswell, although very little of it.


Yeah, because they mixed with the BMAC culture and later with Dravidians and Veddoids in India. But modern Afghans, Punjabis, Dardic groups and Pakis carry a bit of their blood.
Not so little for some groups and individuals. Check out this one I posted:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?236279-Aryan-Afghan-GEDmatch-Results&highlight=Aryan+Afghan

[Böri]

That's interesting people with such DNA lived in the central steppes once upon a time. Unbelievable. Gonna believe in the Aryan theory ultimately LOL.
Certainly people like Ossetians or even lesser modern Indo-Iranic ethnicities in Middle East and South Asia are not the physical descent of those Andronovos.
We see striking ELITE DOMİNANCE effect for most of modern Indo-European speakers.

Ossetians, Persians, Kurds, Armenians, Indians, Pashtuns, Balochis, Greeks etc. are all linguistic shifts native Neolithic agriculturalist farmers.

[Nurzat]

I think they might have resembled people like me. I pass from Tallinn to Bratislava

you mean like this? were Andronovo looking any different from Yamnaya?

https://scontent.fsbz1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34704821_10209936459687973_3175962873251758080_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=f4605759bb89635924a0d03d708ab0bc&oe=5BB7FDEC

https://scontent.fsbz1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34844875_10209936459727974_2449037833042657280_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=10488c329bb2bd955f75e46163bebabb&oe=5BB16DD7

https://scontent.fsbz1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14938298_10206087373463223_6803688509786213706_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=bf6509994cd4458354817db4db73ecef&oe=5BB749FB

[LoLeL]

Yeah, because they mixed with the BMAC culture and later with Dravidians and Veddoids in India. But modern Afghans, Punjabis, Dardic groups and Pakis carry a bit of their blood.

I think Tajikistan, and some regions of Iran and Uzbekistan have that blood too.

[8888]

Andonovo and Sintastha derived from the CWC which explains the Atlantic and Med input. So yeah modern day South-Central Asians have actually European farmer and WHG admix aswell, although very little of it.

Yamnaya was actually more eastern shifted: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?247981-Yamnaya-GEDmatch-results

[8888]

you mean like this? were Andronovo looking any different from Yamnaya?


Probably. Yamnaya was dark-pigmented, Andronovo mostly light pigmented.

[IncelSlayer]

Jatts received a later steppe influence from the Scythians. Most of their steppe isn't from the Aryans, but from Scythians.

scythian and aryan is synonim, they are same with andronovo people all steppe blonde people, only later period..

[Böri]

scythian and aryan is synonim, they are same with andronovo people all steppe blonde people, only later period..

No. Scythians started in Altay and South Siberia around 900 BC.
Okunev-Afanesovo cultural (4th millenia BC) contact region and later they expanded Westwards.

2800 years old Scythian ‘frozen prince’ kurgan discovered in Siberia (Tuva)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?233034-2800-years-old-Scythian-%91frozen-prince%92-kurgan-discovered-in-Siberia-(Tuva)

[8888]

scythian and aryan is synonim, they are same with andronovo people all steppe blonde people, only later period..

Aryan = Indo-Iranian. Scythian is an ethnic designation for many types of steppe people who appeared after the Aryans left the steppe towards India and Iran.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Certainly people like Ossetians or even lesser modern Indo-Iranic ethnicities in Middle East and South Asia are not the physical descent of those Andronovos.

No one descends from them.

[StonyArabia]

In India and Pakistan, the steppe component peaks in the Jats, a non-high caste of pastoralists and farmers.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?247016-Punjabi-Haryanvi-Jat-GEDmatch-results

Jatts are descendants of Indo-Scythians

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Okunev-Afanesovo cultural (4th millenia BC)

RISE674 Okunevo:
1 haryana-jatt_harappa + mexican_1000genomes + selkup_rasmussen + selkup_rasmussen @ 13.859214
1 MA-1 + Mari + Selkup + West_Greenlander @ 6.585181
https://www.gedmatch.com/ac4bec_11_.jpg

[IncelSlayer]

No. Scythians started in Altay and South Siberia around 900 BC.
Okunev-Afanesovo cultural (4th millenia BC) contact region and later they expanded Westwards.

2800 years old Scythian ‘frozen prince’ kurgan discovered in Siberia (Tuva)
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?233034-2800-years-old-Scythian-%91frozen-prince%92-kurgan-discovered-in-Siberia-(Tuva)

Aryan = Indo-Iranian. Scythian is an ethnic designation for many types of steppe people who appeared after the Aryans left the steppe towards India and Iran.
https://image.ibb.co/btPa7o/sc.png

History,skull and bones and dna contradicts you, all of the image above are same people.

Also, scythians were present in Europe and part of its history..the indian and iranian migration of the steppe people was never in great number, hence why they got assimiliated genetically, not before leaving a cultural and historical impact on the veddoids and caucasian mixes that were already present in south asian and probably on par culturally with africans, so large that they still cry nowadays of aryans

http://looksmax.net/images/smilies/hi.gif

[Aren]

Not so little for some groups and individuals. Check out this one I posted:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?236279-Aryan-Afghan-GEDmatch-Results&highlight=Aryan+Afghan

Sintashta was only I think 15-20% European farmer like(the rest typical Steppe), and I think the highest Sintastha input in modern day South Asians doesn't go higher than 30% so it's quite little Euro farmer in general but still quite fascinating how small WHG input is present in Indians.
Btw NE Euro isn't the same as Steppe input. South-Central Asians also have admix from Siberian-HG who were very rich in ANE which would be confused with NE Euro in modern calculators.

[8888]

https://image.ibb.co/btPa7o/sc.png

History,skull and bones and dna contradicts you, all of the image above are same people.


Autossomal resemblance =/= cultural and civilizational continuity. You should learn that, boy. Also, many Scythians were quite Eastern Eurasian admixed. Especially the ones in the East. ''Scythian'' is a cultural term, not a racial one.

[IncelSlayer]

Autossomal resemblance =/= cultural and civilizational continuity. You should learn that, boy. Also, many Scythians were quite Eastern Eurasian admixed. Especially the ones in the East. ''Scythian'' is a cultural term, not a racial one.

I have never denied the cultural impact they had on iranians and others, just that genetically your people dont stand ground against europeans when it comes to these steppe people cultures , and for sure a good percent of steppe people cultures ,mostly in the east part were part east eurasian admixed.

[8888]

I have never denied the cultural impact they had on iranians and others, just that genetically your people dont stand ground against europeans when it comes to these steppe people cultures , and for sure a good percent of steppe people cultures ,mostly in the east part were part east eurasian admixed.

I'm not Iranian, and yeah, Andronovo people were genetically European. I stated that in previous posts.
But they were a bit different from most modern populations, as Ajeje Brazorf stated. Yamnaya was even more different, just check the thread I made on them.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I'm not Iranian, and yeah, Andronovo people were genetically European. I stated that in previous posts.
But they were a bit different from most modern populations, as Ajeje Brazorf stated. Yamnaya was even more different, just check the thread I made on them.

People seem to have a fetish for the steppes xD

[8888]

People seem to have a fetish for the steppes xD

Yep. And probably most of the achievements made by steppe people were influenced by the populations they conquered. Greeks, Persians, Romans, Ancient Hindus, Ancient Central Asians and even Celts and Germanics were mostly native instead of steppe.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Yep. And probably most of the achievements made by steppe people were influenced by the populations they conquered. Greeks, Persians, Romans, Ancient Hindus, Ancient Central Asians and even Celts and Germanics were mostly native instead of steppe.

Exactly so.

https://media.tenor.com/images/631d77b097323167cdb6e811abf20583/tenor.gif

[IncelSlayer]

I'm not Iranian, and yeah, Andronovo people were genetically European. I stated that in previous posts.
But they were a bit different from most modern populations, as Ajeje Brazorf stated. Yamnaya was even more different, just check the thread I made on them.

in the end these steppe cultures had a by far dominant northern european core and depending on location and period some were mixed with east asians and others in small to large extent(ex: eastern yamnayans)..

[Leto]

Sintashta was only I think 15-20% European farmer like(the rest typical Steppe), and I think the highest Sintastha input in modern day South Asians doesn't go higher than 30% so it's quite little Euro farmer in general but still quite fascinating how small WHG input is present in Indians.
Btw NE Euro isn't the same as Steppe input. South-Central Asians also have admix from Siberian-HG who were very rich in ANE which would be confused with NE Euro in modern calculators.
Well, fact is that even Persian and Kurds have way less than that Tajik. Hadouken is a Kurd from Eastern Turkey (more Western than Iran and Armenia), yet he is less European than that 'Aryan' guy.

[8888]

Well, fact is that even Persian and Kurds have way less than that Tajik. Hadouken is a Kurd from Eastern Turkey (more Western than Iran and Armenia), yet he is less European than that 'Aryan' guy.

Kurds and regular Iranians barely have steppe ancestry. In their case it was mostly a linguistic and cultural shift. Iranic groups from Central Asia and Afghanistan generally have more, upper caste Indians too. Jatts are an exception because they descend from Indo-Scythians, that's why they have a lot.

In the end, the groups with more steppe ancestry in the world are Northern and Central Europeans. Then Iranic groups in Central Asia. Southern Europeans have more than upper caste Indians, but just by a little bit. All the other ''Indo-Europeans'' barely have any Indo-European ancestry.

I wonder if Persians were Tajik-like (but without the NE Asian and Siberian blood) before Arab conquest. I remember reading the Mari ethnic group in Russia is the most steppe admixed in the world, but they also have a lot of Siberian and Han-like ancestry.

[Leto]

I4153 U5b2b R1a1a1b Kashkarchi_BA 1200-1000 BCE Uzbekistan
I4255 N1a1a1 R1a1a1b Kashkarchi_BA 1200-1000 BCE Uzbekistan

Kit Number: Z669441
Name: I4153 Kashkarchi_BA

Why can't anyone upload the other one (14255)? I've asked Lukasz like 2-3 times and still nothing...

[Leto]

Kurds and regular Iranians barely have steppe ancestry. In their case it was mostly a linguistic and cultural shift. Iranic groups from Central Asia and Afghanistan generally have more, upper caste Indians too. Jatts are an exception because they descend from Indo-Scythians, that's why they have a lot.

In the end, the groups with more steppe ancestry in the world are Northern and Central Europeans. Then Iranic groups in Central Asia. Southern Europeans have more than upper caste Indians, but just by a little bit. All the other ''Indo-Europeans'' barely have any Indo-European ancestry.

I wonder if Persians were Tajik-like (but without the NE Asian and Siberian blood) before Arab conquest. I remember reading the Mari ethnic group in Russia is the most steppe admixed in the world, but they also have a lot of Siberian and Han-like ancestry.
No, Persians were not much more European before the 600s, there are some samples on GM, they had little Steppe blood as well.

Mari people have no Han-like ancestry, nearly all of their Mongoloid is Siberian as in the Nenets and Evenks, not as in Turkic and Mongolian people. I probably have some indirect Mari-like blood, my mom is from Vyatka/Kirov oblast, she gets 8-9% East Eurasian (mostly Siberian, North Asian, Arctic, etc.) on GM (no phenotypical influence though).

Population
Gedrosia 4.96
Siberian 6.52
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.24
Atlantic_Med 16.99
North_European 56.88
South_Asian 0.25
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.36
East_Asian 1.56
Caucasus 9.24
Sub_Saharan -


Population
S_Indian 0.95
Mediterranean 15.99
Siberian 5.55
Wht_Nile_River -
Amerindian 0.93
S_African -
E_Asian 1.74
Caucasian 5.53
NE_European 62.92
Omo_River 0.62
W_African -
Horn_Of_Africa -
Oceanian -
Beringian 0.89
SW_Asian 4.87

[8888]

No, Persians were not much more European before the 600s, there are some samples on GM, they had little Steppe blood as well.

Mari people have no Han-like ancestry, nearly all of their Mongoloid is Siberian as in the Nenets and Evenks, not as in Turkic and Mongolian people. I probably have some indirect Mari-like blood, my mom is from Vyatka/Kirov oblast, she gets 8-9% East Eurasian (mostly Siberian, North Asian, Arctic, etc.) on GM (no phenotypical influence though).

Population
Gedrosia 4.96
Siberian 6.52
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.24
Atlantic_Med 16.99
North_European 56.88
South_Asian 0.25
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.36
East_Asian 1.56
Caucasus 9.24
Sub_Saharan -


Population
S_Indian 0.95
Mediterranean 15.99
Siberian 5.55
Wht_Nile_River -
Amerindian 0.93
S_African -
E_Asian 1.74
Caucasian 5.53
NE_European 62.92
Omo_River 0.62
W_African -
Horn_Of_Africa -
Oceanian -
Beringian 0.89
SW_Asian 4.87

Interesting, I thought they were more steppe shifted before Arab conquest and that they absorbed more West Asian ancestry, it seems I was wrong.
Thanks for the information on the Mari people. Do you have any Mari kits?

[Böri]

RISE674 Okunevo:
1 haryana-jatt_harappa + mexican_1000genomes + selkup_rasmussen + selkup_rasmussen @ 13.859214
1 MA-1 + Mari + Selkup + West_Greenlander @ 6.585181
https://www.gedmatch.com/ac4bec_11_.jpg

Okunev was South Siberian type people actually (Mongoloid) who got Europoid dolychocephalic influences too.
Later those people produced proto-Turks and Scythians.


https://image.ibb.co/btPa7o/sc.png

History,skull and bones and dna contradicts you, all of the image above are same people.

Also, scythians were present in Europe and part of its history..the indian and iranian migration of the steppe people was never in great number, hence why they got assimiliated genetically, not before leaving a cultural and historical impact on the veddoids and caucasian mixes that were already present in south asian and probably on par culturally with africans, so large that they still cry nowadays of aryans

http://looksmax.net/images/smilies/hi.gif

Oldest Scythian nomad culture is in Siberia, it expands later to West. That's not discussed anymore.

[Böri]

No, Persians were not much more European before the 600s, there are some samples on GM, they had little Steppe blood as well.

Mari people have no Han-like ancestry, nearly all of their Mongoloid is Siberian as in the Nenets and Evenks, not as in Turkic and Mongolian people. I probably have some indirect Mari-like blood, my mom is from Vyatka/Kirov oblast, she gets 8-9% East Eurasian (mostly Siberian, North Asian, Arctic, etc.) on GM (no phenotypical influence though).



Mongoloid in Turks was/is also Siberian. The Mongol-like N-E Asian genes came with later interactions with proto-Mongol when Turks expanded down from Siberia to Altai and Western Mongolia.

[Leto]

Interesting, I thought they were more steppe shifted before Arab conquest and that they absorbed more West Asian ancestry, it seems I was wrong.
I don't know, maybe some parts of Iran were. But people like Jason Reza Jorjani are deluded. He's an American of Persian and white descent, 50% Iranian, 50% American, I guess. He's a white nationalist and promotes the idea that the Persians were some White Aryan Nordic people before the Arab Islamist savages conquered them, brought Negro slaves and miscegenated with them. I remember he was like 'when Persians and Greeks fought against each other, that was a brother war between whites'.

Thanks for the information on the Mari people. Do you have any Mari kits?
Actually, I don't, I've been looking for Mari, Komi and Udmurt kits for a long time. They're super rare. But I have people mixed with them (I'm on my phone now). Basically the Mari would be more or less like my mom but three times as Mongoloid as she is and logically with less European admixture.

[8888]

I don't know, maybe some parts of Iran were. But people like Jason Reza Jorjani are deluded. He's an American of Persian and white descent, 50% Iranian, 50% American, I guess. He's a white nationalist and promotes the idea that the Persians were some White Aryan Nordic people before the Arab Islamist savages conquered them, brought Negro slaves and miscegenated with them. I remember he was like 'when Persians and Greeks fought against each other, that was a brother war between whites'.


Jorjani is a retard, yeah. Persians were certainly not that different in the past. Modern ethnic Persians also don't score significant SSA, they are ''dark'' mostly due to climatic adaptation and high Basal Eurasian ancestry. But I've seen some quite light Iranians, some even lighter than many ''whites''.

[cyberlorian]

I really wanna see how they looked like!!!!

I need a time-machine :eek:

I guess their faces were mostly East Nordid - East Mediterranid range.

[Jana]

@ How do you expain ancient Greeks had barely no steppe for modern European standards and they were IE speakers ?

Maybe to equal steppe input with IE input is not the best idea. Finno-Ugric people are more steppe derived as a whole than Indo-Europeans, for example.

[8888]

@ How do you expain ancient Greeks had barely no steppe for modern European standards and they were IE speakers ?

Maybe to equal steppe input with IE input is not the best idea. Finno-Ugric people are more steppe derived as a whole than Indo-Europeans, for example.

Language shift stablished by a minority of rulers and cultural transmission. Kurds, Armenians and Iranians are IE speakers and have few or no IE ancestry at all. ''Indo-European'' is a linguistic and cultural identity. Not all Indo-Europeans are similar racially to the early Indo-Europeans and some non-IE populations are more similar to them from a genetic POV.

But as I said, cultural and civilizational continuity isn't based only on autosomal similitude. From a cultural POV ancient Greeks and ancient Germanics had a lot in common, but not so much from a genetical POV. The same is true for Indians, pre-Islamic Afghans etc.

[Marmara]

In India and Pakistan, the steppe component peaks in the Jats, a non-high caste of pastoralists and farmers.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?247016-Punjabi-Haryanvi-Jat-GEDmatch-results

Jats probably descended from White Huns who were from Central Asia. They couldn't find the highest place in Hinduist caste since they weren't Brahmins, but since they had more recent Central Asian ancestry they were more North shifting.

[8888]

Jats probably descended from White Huns who were from Central Asia. They couldn't find the highest place in Hinduist caste since they weren't Brahmins, but since they had more recent Central Asian ancestry they were more North shifting.

They descend from Indo-Scythians. That's a known fact.

[Marmara]

Do we know where this person is exactly from and how old is the burial?

[Jana]

There's still a debate what was exactly ''original PIE''. I still do think steppe theory is best explanation, but with few recent papers I must admit it's definitely far from established evidence.

[Marmara]

Kurds themselves can be very Aryan. Hadouken was an exception he scored Armenian first. Kurds can be blonde blue eyed, which is I think related more to Aryan ancestry rather than regional admixture. Also, the most "atypical" Kurds (meaning those who look very out of place in Turkey) look like central asian Pashtuns or Tajiks, and many of them have very light eyes even though they have darker skin.

[8888]

Do we know where this person is exactly from and how old is the burial?

The following samples were tested by Allentoft et al. (2015).

Sample Y-DNA mtDNA Location Date
RISE500 - U4d1 Kytmanovo, Altai Krai ?
RISE503 - U2e2 Kytmanovo, Altai Krai 1600 BCE
RISE505 - U4a1b Kytmanovo, Altai Krai 1700 BCE
RISE512 R1a1a1b (S224) U2e1 Kytmanovo, Altai Krai 1370 BCE

The sample I posted here has no date (but probably ~ 1700 - 1400 B.C), but I have the other kits too. I can share if you want.

[Jana]

Andronovo looks very north European, interesting how it scores North Swedish first. Blogen claims it's original culture of Finno-Ugrians rather than Aryans :D

[Marmara]

There's still a debate what was exactly ''original PIE''. I still do think steppe theory is best explanation, but with few recent papers I must admit it's definitely far from established evidence.

Proto-Greeks were mixed with Neolithic farmers of Greece the same way Indo-Iranians were mixed with Neolithic Central Asians. They probably kept themselves purer for a longer time since some of Iranic people occupied the steppes and remained unmixed, but proto-indians probably looked like Pashtuns when they were invading India.

[Jana]

Proto-Greeks were mixed with Neolithic farmers of Greece the same way Indo-Iranians were mixed with Neolithic Central Asians. They probably kept themselves purer for a longer time since some of Iranic people occupied the steppes and remained unmixed, but proto-indians probably looked like Pashtuns when they were invading India.

What if Proto-Greeks didn't arrive from steppe at all but rather from Anatolia ?

Mycenean samples had more steppe than non IE Minoans, but still miniscule, and they were first Greek speakers. I doubt they had time to mix so much, maybe they were pred. neolithic/CHG from the start.

[Marmara]

The following samples were tested by Allentoft et al. (2015).

Sample Y-DNA mtDNA Location Date
RISE500 - U4d1 Kytmanovo, Altai Krai ?
RISE503 - U2e2 Kytmanovo, Altai Krai 1600 BCE
RISE505 - U4a1b Kytmanovo, Altai Krai 1700 BCE
RISE512 R1a1a1b (S224) U2e1 Kytmanovo, Altai Krai 1370 BCE

The sample I posted here has no date (but probably ~ 1700 - 1400 B.C), but I have the other kits too. I can share if you want.

Kytmanovo? That's very east. Interesting. It's odd they remained unmixed.

[8888]

Andronovo looks very north European, interesting how it scores North Swedish first. Blogen claims it's original culture of Finno-Ugrians rather than Aryans :D

This is another kit (RISE503) on eurogenes k13:

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 50.12
2 Baltic 33.6
3 West_Asian 16.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 13.13
2 Norwegian 13.75
3 North_German 14.22
4 North_Swedish 14.71
5 Danish 14.93
6 North_Dutch 15.13
7 Irish 16.69
8 Orcadian 17.34
9 West_Scottish 17.42
10 Southeast_English 19.18
11 Southwest_English 19.89
12 Southwest_Finnish 19.98
13 East_German 20.16
14 Austrian 20.55
15 West_German 20.85
16 South_Dutch 21.17
17 Hungarian 22.57
18 South_Polish 23.26
19 Finnish 23.62
20 La_Brana-1 23.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.6% Swedish + 12.4% Tabassaran @ 11.55
2 88.7% Swedish + 11.3% Lezgin @ 11.72
3 86.3% Norwegian + 13.7% Tabassaran @ 11.85
4 89.5% Swedish + 10.5% Chechen @ 11.95
5 87.3% Norwegian + 12.7% Lezgin @ 12.01
6 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Balochi @ 12.17
7 93.1% Swedish + 6.9% Brahui @ 12.22
8 91.6% Swedish + 8.4% North_Ossetian @ 12.24
9 88.1% Norwegian + 11.9% Chechen @ 12.25
10 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Kalash @ 12.34
11 92% Swedish + 8% Adygei @ 12.34
12 92% Swedish + 8% Afghan_Pashtun @ 12.37
13 91.8% Swedish + 8.2% Kabardin @ 12.38
14 92.4% Swedish + 7.6% Ossetian @ 12.39
15 93.7% Swedish + 6.3% Makrani @ 12.41
16 93.8% Swedish + 6.2% Abhkasian @ 12.48
17 93.6% Swedish + 6.4% Georgian @ 12.49
18 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Balkar @ 12.5
19 92.4% Swedish + 7.6% Kumyk @ 12.51
20 92% Swedish + 8% Tadjik @ 12.52

[Jana]

This is another kit (RISE503) on eurogenes k13:

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 50.12
2 Baltic 33.6
3 West_Asian 16.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 13.13
2 Norwegian 13.75
3 North_German 14.22
4 North_Swedish 14.71
5 Danish 14.93
6 North_Dutch 15.13
7 Irish 16.69
8 Orcadian 17.34
9 West_Scottish 17.42
10 Southeast_English 19.18
11 Southwest_English 19.89
12 Southwest_Finnish 19.98
13 East_German 20.16
14 Austrian 20.55
15 West_German 20.85
16 South_Dutch 21.17
17 Hungarian 22.57
18 South_Polish 23.26
19 Finnish 23.62
20 La_Brana-1 23.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.6% Swedish + 12.4% Tabassaran @ 11.55
2 88.7% Swedish + 11.3% Lezgin @ 11.72
3 86.3% Norwegian + 13.7% Tabassaran @ 11.85
4 89.5% Swedish + 10.5% Chechen @ 11.95
5 87.3% Norwegian + 12.7% Lezgin @ 12.01
6 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Balochi @ 12.17
7 93.1% Swedish + 6.9% Brahui @ 12.22
8 91.6% Swedish + 8.4% North_Ossetian @ 12.24
9 88.1% Norwegian + 11.9% Chechen @ 12.25
10 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Kalash @ 12.34
11 92% Swedish + 8% Adygei @ 12.34
12 92% Swedish + 8% Afghan_Pashtun @ 12.37
13 91.8% Swedish + 8.2% Kabardin @ 12.38
14 92.4% Swedish + 7.6% Ossetian @ 12.39
15 93.7% Swedish + 6.3% Makrani @ 12.41
16 93.8% Swedish + 6.2% Abhkasian @ 12.48
17 93.6% Swedish + 6.4% Georgian @ 12.49
18 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Balkar @ 12.5
19 92.4% Swedish + 7.6% Kumyk @ 12.51
20 92% Swedish + 8% Tadjik @ 12.52

Very pure north European, amazing considering how eastern this culture was located.

They must have been heavily nordic/Cromagnon in apperance.

[Marmara]

What if Proto-Greeks didn't arrive from steppe at all but rather from Anatolia ?

Mycenean samples had more steppe than non IE Minoans, but still miniscule, and they were first Greek speakers. I doubt they had time to mix so much, maybe they were pred. neolithic/CHG from the start.

I find it very unlikely. Greek language isn't related to old Anatolian and Armenian languages. (Anatolian and Armenian languages came from Caucasus and they were the first languages to split from Proto-Indo-Europeans.)

[Marmara]

This is another kit (RISE503) on eurogenes k13:

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 50.12
2 Baltic 33.6
3 West_Asian 16.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 13.13
2 Norwegian 13.75
3 North_German 14.22
4 North_Swedish 14.71
5 Danish 14.93
6 North_Dutch 15.13
7 Irish 16.69
8 Orcadian 17.34
9 West_Scottish 17.42
10 Southeast_English 19.18
11 Southwest_English 19.89
12 Southwest_Finnish 19.98
13 East_German 20.16
14 Austrian 20.55
15 West_German 20.85
16 South_Dutch 21.17
17 Hungarian 22.57
18 South_Polish 23.26
19 Finnish 23.62
20 La_Brana-1 23.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.6% Swedish + 12.4% Tabassaran @ 11.55
2 88.7% Swedish + 11.3% Lezgin @ 11.72
3 86.3% Norwegian + 13.7% Tabassaran @ 11.85
4 89.5% Swedish + 10.5% Chechen @ 11.95
5 87.3% Norwegian + 12.7% Lezgin @ 12.01
6 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Balochi @ 12.17
7 93.1% Swedish + 6.9% Brahui @ 12.22
8 91.6% Swedish + 8.4% North_Ossetian @ 12.24
9 88.1% Norwegian + 11.9% Chechen @ 12.25
10 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Kalash @ 12.34
11 92% Swedish + 8% Adygei @ 12.34
12 92% Swedish + 8% Afghan_Pashtun @ 12.37
13 91.8% Swedish + 8.2% Kabardin @ 12.38
14 92.4% Swedish + 7.6% Ossetian @ 12.39
15 93.7% Swedish + 6.3% Makrani @ 12.41
16 93.8% Swedish + 6.2% Abhkasian @ 12.48
17 93.6% Swedish + 6.4% Georgian @ 12.49
18 92.7% Swedish + 7.3% Balkar @ 12.5
19 92.4% Swedish + 7.6% Kumyk @ 12.51
20 92% Swedish + 8% Tadjik @ 12.52


Very pure north European, amazing considering how eastern this culture was located.

They must have been heavily nordic/Cromagnon in apperance.

More interesting is that their North Atlantic is higher than Baltic. Modern Central Asians have North European admixture which is supposed to be Andronovo/Aryan but they score Baltic higher than North Atlantic.

[Jana]

I find it very unlikely. Greek language isn't related to old Anatolian and Armenian languages. (Anatolian and Armenian languages came from Caucasus and they were the first languages to split from Proto-Indo-Europeans.)

There is R1b L23 (common in Greece and Anatolia) connection tough, but it's steppe marker. Do you mean these R1b steppe migrants passed their language to local non IE neolithic people from Anatolia/Caucasus who came to Greece before them ?

It's possible, but I wonder why no single Mycenean sample looked like steppe arrival.

[8888]

I find it very unlikely. Greek language isn't related to old Anatolian and Armenian languages. (Anatolian and Armenian languages came from Caucasus and they were the first languages to split from Proto-Indo-Europeans.)

There's a theory by a British scholar (Collin Renfrew) of a Greek-Armenian connection. According to him IEs in Greece arrived from Anatolia. That could explain the low levels of steppe input in ancient Greeks. We must remember Indo-European is more a linguistic and cultural identity than a ''racial'' identity.

[Marmara]

There's a theory by a British scholar (Collin Renfrew) of a Greek-Armenian connection. According to him IEs in Greece arrived from Anatolia. That could explain the low levels of steppe input in ancient Greeks. We must remember Indo-European is more a linguistic and cultural identity than a ''racial'' identity.

If there was a connection it would more likely be a Greek-Anatolian. Greek languages weren't spoken in Anatolia before Greeks started to colonize it. We have language records from the time of bronze age Myceneans, Hittites spoke an IE language unrelated to Greek and the former inhabitants (Hattis) spoke a North Caucasian non-IE language.

All Anatolian IE languages form their own Anatolian language group, which Armenian isn't included.

[8888]

Anatolia Calcholitic I584

Dodecad V3

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 41.6
2 West_Asian 38.61
3 West_European 10.93
4 Southwest_Asian 7.94
5 Northwest_African 0.67
6 Neo_African 0.16
7 Palaeo_African 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cypriots (Behar) 12.09
2 S_Italian (Dodecad) 12.42
3 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 13.71
4 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.63
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.3
6 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 15.3
7 Druze (HGDP) 16.29
8 Greek (Dodecad) 16.37
9 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.78
10 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 16.82
11 C_Italian (Dodecad) 17.82
12 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 17.89
13 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 18.17
14 Turks (Behar) 18.46
15 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 19.63
16 Armenian (Dodecad) 19.78
17 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 19.84
18 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 19.88
19 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 20.14
20 Samaritians (Behar) 20.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.6% Armenians_16 (Behar) + 37.4% Sardinian (HGDP) @ 3.49
2 64.8% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.2% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 3.87
3 76.4% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 23.6% Georgians (Behar) @ 4.06
4 65.4% Armenian (Dodecad) + 34.6% Sardinian (HGDP) @ 4.25
5 62.4% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.6% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 4.39
6 62.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 37.5% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 4.4
7 55.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 44.3% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 4.81
8 55.1% Armenian (Dodecad) + 44.9% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 4.85
9 59.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 40.2% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 4.92
10 52.2% Armenians_16 (Behar) + 47.8% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 5.04
11 52.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 47.2% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 5.06
12 60% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 40% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 5.11
13 74.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.1% Georgians (Behar) @ 5.3
14 57.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 42.9% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 5.43
15 62.6% Armenian (Dodecad) + 37.4% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 5.48
16 72.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 27.4% Georgians (Behar) @ 5.64
17 59.8% Armenians_16 (Behar) + 40.2% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 6
18 66.9% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 33.1% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 6.52
19 78.3% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 21.7% Adygei (HGDP) @ 6.52
20 53.1% Armenian (Dodecad) + 46.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 6.64

HarappaWorld

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 48.14
2 Mediterranean 26.7
3 SW-Asian 9.27
4 Baloch 9.14
5 NE-Euro 6.45
6 Siberian 0.16
7 W-African 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 cypriot (behar) 10.54
2 sephardic-jew (behar) 14
3 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 16.04
4 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 16.52
5 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 17.31
6 morocco-jew (behar) 17.37
7 turk (behar) 17.62
8 ashkenazi (harappa) 18.26
9 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 18.26
10 armenian (harappa) 18.68
11 lebanese-muslim (haber) 19.6
12 lebanese-druze (haber) 19.62
13 turkish (harappa) 19.62
14 lebanese-christian (haber) 19.95
15 lebanese (behar) 19.96
16 armenian (behar) 20.52
17 armenian (yunusbayev) 20.8
18 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 21.43
19 georgia-jew (behar) 21.47
20 assyrian (harappa) 22.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.2% armenian (behar) + 32.8% sardinian (hgdp) @ 3.83
2 55.2% georgian (behar) + 44.8% sardinian (hgdp) @ 5.79
3 55.9% abhkasian (yunusbayev) + 44.1% sardinian (hgdp) @ 6.32
4 66.9% azerbaijan-jew (behar) + 33.1% sardinian (hgdp) @ 7.11
5 84.5% cypriot (behar) + 15.5% sardinian (hgdp) @ 7.44
6 89.4% cypriot (behar) + 10.6% basque (hgdp) @ 8.1
7 89.4% cypriot (behar) + 10.6% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 8.22
8 67.2% georgia-jew (behar) + 32.8% sardinian (hgdp) @ 8.33
9 78.4% cypriot (behar) + 21.6% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 8.55
10 83.8% cypriot (behar) + 16.2% italian (hgdp) @ 8.56
11 66.7% assyrian (harappa) + 33.3% sardinian (hgdp) @ 8.64
12 87.9% cypriot (behar) + 12.1% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 8.68
13 75% sephardic-jew (behar) + 25% georgian (behar) @ 8.79
14 65.9% druze (hgdp) + 34.1% sardinian (hgdp) @ 8.94
15 68.7% morocco-jew (behar) + 31.3% georgian (behar) @ 8.99
16 74.8% sephardic-jew (behar) + 25.2% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 9.09
17 62.3% georgian (behar) + 37.7% tunisia (henn2012) @ 9.13
18 90.2% cypriot (behar) + 9.8% french (hgdp) @ 9.18
19 68.3% morocco-jew (behar) + 31.7% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 9.38
20 90% cypriot (behar) + 10% puerto-rican (1000genomes) @ 9.43


Ancient Eurasia k6

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 52.59
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 25.25
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 21.77
4 Sub_Saharan 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_South 4.63
2 Jew_Moroccan 5.47
3 Jew_Ashkenazi 5.89
4 Sicilian 6.71
5 Cypriot 6.84
6 Jew_Tunisian 7.35
7 Jew_Libyan 7.77
8 Armenia_ChL 7.85
9 Greek 8.97
10 Albanian 10.74
11 Druze 11.13
12 Turkish 11.77
13 Lebanese 12.13
14 Syrian 13.6
15 Palestinian 13.93
16 Jordanian 13.98
17 Adygei 15.1
18 Bulgarian 15.35
19 Saudi 15.8
20 Assyrian 15.8

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.6% Georgian + 41.4% Sardinian @ 1.37
2 78.8% Italian_South + 21.2% Jew_iraqi @ 1.56
3 60.4% Italian_South + 39.6% Cypriot @ 1.59
4 78.8% Italian_South + 21.2% Jew_Iranian @ 1.63
5 78.4% Italian_South + 21.6% Assyrian @ 1.64
6 80% Cypriot + 20% English @ 1.68
7 78.4% Cypriot + 21.6% French @ 1.69
8 57.1% Cypriot + 42.9% Greek @ 1.7
9 82% Cypriot + 18% Icelandic @ 1.73
10 76% Cypriot + 24% Croatian @ 1.76
11 80% Cypriot + 20% Czech @ 1.78
12 61.6% Cypriot + 38.4% Albanian @ 1.79
13 72% Italian_South + 28% Druze @ 1.82
14 81% Cypriot + 19% Norwegian @ 1.84
15 80.8% Cypriot + 19.2% Scottish @ 1.84
16 72.2% Cypriot + 27.8% Romanian @ 1.88
17 82.5% Cypriot + 17.5% Europe_LNBA @ 1.9
18 92.6% Cypriot + 7.4% Motala12 @ 1.91
19 93.4% Cypriot + 6.6% Hungarian_KO1 @ 1.93
20 93.4% Cypriot + 6.6% WHG @ 1.93

[8888]

If there was a connection it would more likely be a Greek-Anatolian. Greek languages weren't spoken in Anatolia before Greeks started to colonize it. We have language records from the time of bronze age Myceneans, Hittites spoke an IE language unrelated to Greek and the former inhabitants (Hattis) spoke a North Caucasian non-IE language.

All Anatolian IE languages form their own Anatolian language group, which Armenian isn't included.

His theory proposes a Greek-Anatolian family (including Armenian), like there's an ''Italo-Celtic'' family. Greek wasn't spoken in Anatolia, the same way Latin wasn't spoken among the Celts. But they were related after all.

Of course those populations weren't aware their languages were so similar. Indo-European is a 18th century (William Jones) discovery.

[Marmara]

There is R1b L23 (common in Greece and Anatolia) connection tough, but it's steppe marker. Do you mean these R1b steppe migrants passed their language to local non IE neolithic people from Anatolia/Caucasus who came to Greece before them ?

It's possible, but I wonder why no single Mycenean sample looked like steppe arrival.

That's most likely what happened. Neolithic people were farmers and densely populated areas they live. Steppe invaders were unable to outbreed them, instead they just installed themselves as the new elite. Neolithic languages could have even been spoken at that time, maybe those myceneans didn't even fully assimilate into Greek language. I don't know if there is an evidence of this.

[Marmara]

Anatolia Calcholitic I584

Dodecad V3

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 41.6
2 West_Asian 38.61
3 West_European 10.93
4 Southwest_Asian 7.94
5 Northwest_African 0.67
6 Neo_African 0.16
7 Palaeo_African 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cypriots (Behar) 12.09
2 S_Italian (Dodecad) 12.42
3 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 13.71
4 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.63
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 15.3
6 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 15.3
7 Druze (HGDP) 16.29
8 Greek (Dodecad) 16.37
9 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.78
10 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 16.82
11 C_Italian (Dodecad) 17.82
12 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 17.89
13 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 18.17
14 Turks (Behar) 18.46
15 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 19.63
16 Armenian (Dodecad) 19.78
17 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 19.84
18 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 19.88
19 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 20.14
20 Samaritians (Behar) 20.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.6% Armenians_16 (Behar) + 37.4% Sardinian (HGDP) @ 3.49
2 64.8% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.2% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 3.87
3 76.4% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 23.6% Georgians (Behar) @ 4.06
4 65.4% Armenian (Dodecad) + 34.6% Sardinian (HGDP) @ 4.25
5 62.4% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.6% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 4.39
6 62.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 37.5% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 4.4
7 55.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 44.3% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 4.81
8 55.1% Armenian (Dodecad) + 44.9% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 4.85
9 59.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 40.2% Armenians_16 (Behar) @ 4.92
10 52.2% Armenians_16 (Behar) + 47.8% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 5.04
11 52.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 47.2% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 5.06
12 60% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 40% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 5.11
13 74.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.1% Georgians (Behar) @ 5.3
14 57.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 42.9% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 5.43
15 62.6% Armenian (Dodecad) + 37.4% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 5.48
16 72.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 27.4% Georgians (Behar) @ 5.64
17 59.8% Armenians_16 (Behar) + 40.2% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 6
18 66.9% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 33.1% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 6.52
19 78.3% S_Italian (Dodecad) + 21.7% Adygei (HGDP) @ 6.52
20 53.1% Armenian (Dodecad) + 46.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 6.64

HarappaWorld

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 48.14
2 Mediterranean 26.7
3 SW-Asian 9.27
4 Baloch 9.14
5 NE-Euro 6.45
6 Siberian 0.16
7 W-African 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 cypriot (behar) 10.54
2 sephardic-jew (behar) 14
3 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 16.04
4 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 16.52
5 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 17.31
6 morocco-jew (behar) 17.37
7 turk (behar) 17.62
8 ashkenazi (harappa) 18.26
9 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 18.26
10 armenian (harappa) 18.68
11 lebanese-muslim (haber) 19.6
12 lebanese-druze (haber) 19.62
13 turkish (harappa) 19.62
14 lebanese-christian (haber) 19.95
15 lebanese (behar) 19.96
16 armenian (behar) 20.52
17 armenian (yunusbayev) 20.8
18 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 21.43
19 georgia-jew (behar) 21.47
20 assyrian (harappa) 22.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.2% armenian (behar) + 32.8% sardinian (hgdp) @ 3.83
2 55.2% georgian (behar) + 44.8% sardinian (hgdp) @ 5.79
3 55.9% abhkasian (yunusbayev) + 44.1% sardinian (hgdp) @ 6.32
4 66.9% azerbaijan-jew (behar) + 33.1% sardinian (hgdp) @ 7.11
5 84.5% cypriot (behar) + 15.5% sardinian (hgdp) @ 7.44
6 89.4% cypriot (behar) + 10.6% basque (hgdp) @ 8.1
7 89.4% cypriot (behar) + 10.6% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 8.22
8 67.2% georgia-jew (behar) + 32.8% sardinian (hgdp) @ 8.33
9 78.4% cypriot (behar) + 21.6% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 8.55
10 83.8% cypriot (behar) + 16.2% italian (hgdp) @ 8.56
11 66.7% assyrian (harappa) + 33.3% sardinian (hgdp) @ 8.64
12 87.9% cypriot (behar) + 12.1% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 8.68
13 75% sephardic-jew (behar) + 25% georgian (behar) @ 8.79
14 65.9% druze (hgdp) + 34.1% sardinian (hgdp) @ 8.94
15 68.7% morocco-jew (behar) + 31.3% georgian (behar) @ 8.99
16 74.8% sephardic-jew (behar) + 25.2% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 9.09
17 62.3% georgian (behar) + 37.7% tunisia (henn2012) @ 9.13
18 90.2% cypriot (behar) + 9.8% french (hgdp) @ 9.18
19 68.3% morocco-jew (behar) + 31.7% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 9.38
20 90% cypriot (behar) + 10% puerto-rican (1000genomes) @ 9.43


Ancient Eurasia k6

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 52.59
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 25.25
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 21.77
4 Sub_Saharan 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_South 4.63
2 Jew_Moroccan 5.47
3 Jew_Ashkenazi 5.89
4 Sicilian 6.71
5 Cypriot 6.84
6 Jew_Tunisian 7.35
7 Jew_Libyan 7.77
8 Armenia_ChL 7.85
9 Greek 8.97
10 Albanian 10.74
11 Druze 11.13
12 Turkish 11.77
13 Lebanese 12.13
14 Syrian 13.6
15 Palestinian 13.93
16 Jordanian 13.98
17 Adygei 15.1
18 Bulgarian 15.35
19 Saudi 15.8
20 Assyrian 15.8

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.6% Georgian + 41.4% Sardinian @ 1.37
2 78.8% Italian_South + 21.2% Jew_iraqi @ 1.56
3 60.4% Italian_South + 39.6% Cypriot @ 1.59
4 78.8% Italian_South + 21.2% Jew_Iranian @ 1.63
5 78.4% Italian_South + 21.6% Assyrian @ 1.64
6 80% Cypriot + 20% English @ 1.68
7 78.4% Cypriot + 21.6% French @ 1.69
8 57.1% Cypriot + 42.9% Greek @ 1.7
9 82% Cypriot + 18% Icelandic @ 1.73
10 76% Cypriot + 24% Croatian @ 1.76
11 80% Cypriot + 20% Czech @ 1.78
12 61.6% Cypriot + 38.4% Albanian @ 1.79
13 72% Italian_South + 28% Druze @ 1.82
14 81% Cypriot + 19% Norwegian @ 1.84
15 80.8% Cypriot + 19.2% Scottish @ 1.84
16 72.2% Cypriot + 27.8% Romanian @ 1.88
17 82.5% Cypriot + 17.5% Europe_LNBA @ 1.9
18 92.6% Cypriot + 7.4% Motala12 @ 1.91
19 93.4% Cypriot + 6.6% Hungarian_KO1 @ 1.93
20 93.4% Cypriot + 6.6% WHG @ 1.93

I'm bad at reading these results, do they have minimal steppe input? It appears to be very neolithic.

[8888]

I'm bad at reading these results, do they have minimal steppe input? It appears to be very neolithic.

Very small steppe input. Somewhat similar to Myceaneans but with a bit less steppe, half actually. Myceaneans can be modeled as half Sicilian and half Sardinian. This one approaches Cypriots with some Sardinian and minor steppe.

[Kouros]

If there was a connection it would more likely be a Greek-Anatolian. Greek languages weren't spoken in Anatolia before Greeks started to colonize it. We have language records from the time of bronze age Myceneans, Hittites spoke an IE language unrelated to Greek and the former inhabitants (Hattis) spoke a North Caucasian non-IE language.

All Anatolian IE languages form their own Anatolian language group, which Armenian isn't included.

What he's saying is that the Indo-Europeans who brought the Greek language to Greece would have probably entered through Turkey/Asia Minor as opposed to the north (by crossing the Caucasus, the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, and most of Eastern Europe). At least this is what I think she meant. Doesn't necessarily mean that Greek has to be related to Anatolian languages.

From what I've read, Early Greek or 'proto-Greek' is closest to Lithuanian, Sanskrit, and Armenian while Sanskrit is supposed to be the closest known language to PIE.

[Leto]

Btw NE Euro isn't the same as Steppe input. South-Central Asians also have admix from Siberian-HG who were very rich in ANE which would be confused with NE Euro in modern calculators.
Weren't they part EHG or something like that?

[Böri]

PIE Greek travelled through Ukraine and Balkans to modern-day Greece.
PIE Hittites travelled through Caucasus to Asia Minor, so did PIE Armenians when travelling to Transcaucasus and beyond.

Hittite, Lydian were unrelated to Greek ofc.

[Leto]

These sisters (electornic band Krewella) are genetically very 'Indo-European' - Pakistani father, Lithuanian mother
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jahan+Yousaf+iHeartRadio+Music+Festival+Village+BC 9AxvB48_Sl.jpg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/iHeartRadio+Music+Festival+Village+Backstage+P_IwC-IRkNxl.jpg

This one looks more European to me
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/musician-jahan-yousaf-of-krewella-attends-the-mtv-fandom-awards-san-picture-id578666046?s=612x612
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/musician-yasmine-yousaf-of-krewella-attends-the-mtv-fandom-awards-san-picture-id578666040?k=6&m=578666040&s=594x594&w=0&h=odMvM427L8htZmN-eemkaEiYE2Wm3Au-MAmugYoTIy0=

Their Paki father
https://starsunfolded.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Yousaf-sisters-with-their-father.jpg

Lithuanian mother
https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/4296942/images/n-SUPER-MOM-628x314.jpg

[Aren]

PIE Greek travelled through Ukraine and Balkans to modern-day Greece.
PIE Hittites travelled through Caucasus to Asia Minor, so did PIE Armenians when travelling to Transcaucasus and beyond.

Hittite, Lydian were unrelated to Greek ofc.

Hitties came via the Balkans too but much earlier than Greek. There's a Bulgarian Yamnaya sample dating to 3200 BC could very well be ancestral to Hittie and other Anatolian languages. Original haplgroup of all these Anatolian people + Greeks probably was R1b Z103 which is found in relatively high degree throughout southern Balkans and Anatolia.

[Jana]

Hitties came via the Balkans too but much earlier than Greek. There's a Bulgarian Yamnaya sample dating to 3200 BC could very well be ancestral to Hittie and other Anatolian languages.

Why should it be related to Hittite ?

It's more obviously related to Thracians and if that's sample I think you refer to, it was R1a-z93 which is totally uncommon in Anatolia and Turk/Kurdish arrival

[Aren]

Why should it be related to Hittite ?

It's more obviously related to Thracians and if that's sample I think you refer to, it was R1a-z93 which is totally uncommon in Anatolia and Turk/Kurdish arrival

Thracians already during the 4th millenium BC? I doubt that.
The Y-DNA was local I2a, but my point was that if the early Indo-Europeans were at the doorstep of Anatolia by the 4th millenia BC then a Balkan route for the Hitties seems quite possible. Not that the particular Yamnaya sample from Bulgaria must've been part of the group that migrated to Anatolia, but others closely related to it. Probably carrying R1b-Z103.

[Nurzat]

They were surely white with such DNA results. The Kashkarchi Uzbekistan samples (late Bronze Age) from one of the recent papers are similar to this one.

this Andronovo kit plots halfway between Poles and SW Finns on that Eurogenes K15 map where you put the pixel coordinates.

do you know why does it plot so Western and Northern compared to Yamnaya? Yamnaya plot halfway between Moldovans and Tatars on that empty zone.