Modern Iranians on average have NO Arab admixture

[Borealis]

From G25 nmonte:


1 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Bandari:Average 5.5122 Open Map 0 0 100
2 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Fars:Average 0.9557 Open Map 0 0 100
3 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Lor:Average 0.916 Open Map 18.33 2.5 79.17
4 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Mazandarani:Average 2.0719 Open Map 0 0 100
5 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Persian:Average 1.4042 Open Map 0 1.67 98.33


Bedouin B represents Arab admixture, Assyrian possible admixture from the fertile crescent. As you see, majority of them get no bedouin at all and the two that do get them in such minor quantities that it is practically noise and may just be due to natural variation rather than admixture.

[FinalFlash]

From G25 nmonte:


1 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Bandari:Average 5.5122 Open Map 0 0 100
2 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Fars:Average 0.9557 Open Map 0 0 100
3 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Lor:Average 0.916 Open Map 18.33 2.5 79.17
4 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Mazandarani:Average 2.0719 Open Map 0 0 100
5 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Persian:Average 1.4042 Open Map 0 1.67 98.33


Bedouin B represents Arab admixture, Assyrian possible admixture from the fertile crescent. As you see, majority of them get no bedouin at all and the two that do get them in such minor quantities that it is practically noise and may just be due to natural variation rather than admixture.

Nothing surprising there

[Borealis]

Nothing surprising there

Many people continue to repeat the claim

[FinalFlash]

Many people continue to repeat the claim

It's a ridiculous claim. Many people conflate genetics with language, culture and religion.

[StonyArabia]

It's a ridiculous claim. Many people conflate genetics with language, culture and religion.

They associate swarthy skin, dark hair and eyes with Arab admixture. As many believe the original population was White European like and Arab mixed with them lol. Some Persians have weird videos on YouTube which might reinforce this false idea.

[Borealis]

They associate swarthy skin, dark hair and eyes with Arab admixture. As many believe the original population was White European like and Arab mixed with them lol. Some Persians have weird videos on YouTube which might reinforce this false idea.

Also some Arabs like to spread the idea that this happened in order to insult Persians.

[StonyArabia]

Also some Arabs like to spread the idea that this happened in order to insult Persians.

No Arabs usually try to distance themselves from Persians and call them Indians or Hindus lol. Iraqi Shias especially Arab nationalists are leaving shiaism due to rise of ethnic consciousness, its ironic because shiaism was a Yemenite sect in origin which the Safavid adopted and imported Lebanese shia Arabs to propagate the faith. Iraqi Shias adopted Shiaism often by force during the Buyid Persian rule and the Safavid rule. Most Iraqi Arab Shias are of Bedouin origins who were targeted and missionarized by Persian and Lebanese mullahs in the 19th century when it did not work by force. These mullahs converted the tribesmen due to poltitical rather than religious or spiritual reasons, especially after the Saudi raids and expansion. Tribes who refused conversion to Shiasm become concentrated in the Western regions, with some migrating as far north as Anatolia. Even Iraqi Shias try to distance themselves and want to make the distinction between the two. The religious ones however are tied to both Iranian mullahs. Persians also migrated in Iraq especially in high droves to find economic opportunities and were 70% of Karbala's population and significant number in Najaf. These were Arabized however but kept their ties to Persia and were seen with suspicion. Iranian like admixture is heavy in the shia holy cities. In other areas where tribes live many are almost identical to Yemenite Jews and Saudis, as well Bedouins due to their isolation.

The two groups did not intermix, and if Arabic was to be adopted it would through elite domince.

[Slavic Italian]

Sorry but modern Persians are quite mixed. Too many invasions and conquests not to be. I have some Persian and I have some Arab as well.

[CrazyDaisy]

The Persians I know look like Arabs.

[Slavic Italian]

The Persians I know look like Arabs.

Because they have significant Arab admixture. I recently met one who does not look Arab at all but in general many of them obviously have Arab admixture. One calculator's estimation does not mean shit. Davidski told me that my ancestry is so complicated those calculators are worthless for me at least the ones that are four populations and less. I believe this is the same deal for many Iranians.

[Leto]

Pre-600 samples from Iran were not much different from modern Iranians. They are mostly native.

[Leto]

Sorry but modern Persians are quite mixed. Too many invasions and conquests not to be. I have some Persian and I have some Arab as well.
Bullshit, you just have an identity crisis. You don't have Persian, Arab or Chinese in you. You're white, European American and it is just fine, no need to look for something 'exotic' in yourself. I'm sick of white people feeling they're too white. Show me an Asian or an African who feels the same about themself.

[Slavic Italian]

Bullshit, you just have an identity crisis. You don't have Persian, Arab or Chinese in you. You're white, European American and it is just fine, no need to look for something 'exotic' in yourself. I'm sick of white people feeling they're too white. Show me an Asian or an African who feels the same about themself.

Dumbass Persians are white and I know exactly what I am. Maybe your dumbass ought to email Davidski about me. Modern Persians are very mixed whether you want to accept it or not.

"David Wesolowski" eurogenesblog@gmail.com

[Leto]

Dumbass Persians are white and I know exactly what I am.
Lol. Slavic "Persians look like Arabs but they are white" Italian. :lol:

[Slavic Italian]

Lol. Slavic "Persians look like Arabs but they are white" Italian. :lol:

By definition and their ancient history. Most modern Persians are mixed.

[Leto]

Maybe your dumbass ought to email Davidski about me. Modern Persians are very mixed whether you want to accept it or not.

"David Wesolowski" eurogenesblog@gmail.com
I don't really care about that nMonte crap, it's gibberish to me. A zillion populations and in the end the result doesn't tell anything specific.
Persians have little to no Negro or Mongoloid admixture. All of that combined usually doesn't exceed 5%.

[Slavic Italian]

I don't really care about that nMonte crap, it's gibberish to me. A zillion populations and in the end the result doesn't tell anything specific.
Persians have little to no Negro or Mongoloid admixture. All of that combined usually doesn't exceed 5%.


Maybe not during the early stages of the Persian empire but the average modern Persian certainly does. Whether you want to accept nMonte or not fact is it has been amazingly accurate and it is even solving crimes that are 40 years old here in America. You are just stubborn and a dumbass.

[Leto]

Maybe not during the early stages of the Persian empire but the average modern Persian certainly does. These are the largest IBD hits on 6 of my chromosomes. Whether you want to accept nMonte or not fact is it has been amazingly accurate and it is even solving crimes that are 40 years old here in America. You are just stubborn and a dumbass.

Chr1

Pop ID CHR BP1 BP2 SNP1 SNP2 cM
Croatian GSM1841121 1 120351977 150484987 rs2994809 rs13294 13.87669
Sephardic_Jew sephardic4tur 1 120351977 150210120 rs2994809 rs11205347 13.83329
Sicilian_East EastSicilian3H 1 32729702 37437776 rs1004420 rs575605 6.795661
Iranian GS000014475 1 234411855 235727816 rs12037730 rs508208 3.90597
Dominican GSM531140 1 163494597 165182355 rs7512954 rs3738193 3.1647
Macedonian Macedonian12_GSM1424614 1 216649667 218719400 rs4338426 rs12038116 3.12568
Spanish_Cantabria HG01679 1 240699814 241730054 rs12027604 rs2275163 3.12163
Uygur HGDP01301 1 240783716 241849047 rs12126125 rs7527828 3.03853
Dominican GSM531140 1 3446813 4375859 rs4648392 rs10915509 3.0050803

Chr2

Khanty GS000016906 2 8728607 10566033 rs4668578 rs3755259 4.070888
Croatian GSM1841116 2 80086434 85296388 rs1368919 rs4019832 3.89396
Mari GS000015715 2 205399643 208088987 rs6435243 rs11695409 3.58871
Montenegrin Montenegro1_GSM1424636 2 85339718 88364086 rs11685301 rs12467791 3.46933
Belarusian GS000035241 2 205153827 207486889 rs16841113 rs10186957 3.27324
Pathan HGDP00228 2 73161551 75470713 rs2077586 rs1861430 3.21056
Moroccan_Jew Morocco_Jew_2 2 4451884 5723564 rs10165034 rs10168340 3.1341071

Chr3

Saami GS000035024 3 107833289 113290468 rs7648181 rs13092825 4.36979
Gujarati NA20873 3 175488587 177707225 rs1931156 rs6779930 4.02736
Karelian GS000035149 3 107760800 112486737 rs696365 rs1154278 3.76361
English_Kent HG00126 3 193653537 194553182 rs2636914 rs4677760 3.49655
Estonian ee1 3 130741687 133709523 rs9817842 rs4331673 3.23893
German GS000016892 3 14460915 16680339 rs12638941 rs1035847 3.135883
Estonian GS000017199 3 151883726 154812638 rs325781 rs2196521 3.09512
Russian_North HGDP00888 3 107760800 111841303 rs696365 rs1492489 3.05246
Lezgin lez49 3 127590236 131647348 rs6439086 rs2369231 3.02506

Chr4

Croatian GSM1841133 4 32521580 37067592 rs7657618 rs6825814 4.069861
Ukrainian_West UkrLv228 4 189171046 190706132 rs4476671 rs1317423 3.61546
Italian_Tuscan NA20803 4 3712082 4687339 rs2857969 rs4458410 3.4868587
English_Cornwall HG00252 4 119860592 122974607 rs1565475 rs10516615 3.29661
Norwegian NOR126 4 78270126 81961697 rs11936421 rs10002189 3.284444
Italian_Tuscan NA20765 4 174731952 176587929 rs7683033 rs11940383 3.25911
Mordovian GS000015874 4 41175148 44121146 rs7683197 rs7689034 3.055736

Chr5

Italian_Tuscan NA20772 5 178595870 180218831 rs7735461 rs2070924 4.28339
Belarusian belorus6 5 165312291 167727179 rs10515911 rs2253028 3.6634
Russian_North HGDP00886 5 175093375 177419967 rs6864183 rs1800197 3.39326
Russian_North HGDP00896 5 93798480 97370373 rs952664 rs257258 3.20712
Selkup selkup7 5 98552184 104242877 rs1121306 rs410181 3.01553

Chr6

Croatian GS000015873 6 27271343 33542538 rs7771953 rs210138 3.528116
Estonian GS000017209 6 2542395 3781719 rs1773001 rs6596999 3.2781189
Russian_North HGDP00899 6 97096065 100763213 rs9400212 rs924974 2.99076
Spanish_Aragon HG01676 6 149845117 151258770 rs17087579 rs742829 2.91935
English_Cornwall HG00260 6 4607325 5637740 rs9502208 rs12525101 2.907869
This stuff tells me literally nothing. Compared to GEDmatch it is gibberish
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mtzCNlxHBHHgF4v8UX9_2rW0zlJ4GJjn_RbmpdEEiww/edit#gid=0

Show me proof Persians have a lot of Negro and Mongoloid admixture.

[Slavic Italian]

This stuff tells me literally nothing. Compared to GEDmatch it is gibberish
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mtzCNlxHBHHgF4v8UX9_2rW0zlJ4GJjn_RbmpdEEiww/edit#gid=0

Show me proof Persians have a lot of Negro and Mongoloid admixture.

This was done by the man who had a hand in creating Gedmatch you dumbass. Davidski of Eurogenes to be specific.

[Slavic Italian]

3 or 4 of these Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers clearly have some Arab or other exotic admixture.

[Gangrel]

3 or 4 of these Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers clearly have some Arab or other exotic admixture.

No they don't you fat dumb old fuck.

[Slavic Italian]

No they don't you fat dumb old fuck.

Ignore the obvious you greasy ass Turk.

[Leto]

3 or 4 of these Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers clearly have some Arab or other exotic admixture.
And what makes you think they used to look like Europeans before the 600s? Afghans have no Arabian ancestry and they're even darker than Persians. Even Azerbaijanis and Armenians are often pretty dark, I've seen a lot in Russia, some remain brownish even in Russian winter. Kurds are also pretty dark, even in Turkey they are considered dark people.

[Gangrel]

Ignore the obvious you greasy ass Turk.

Dumbfuck, post me what you think an Iranian without Arab admixture looks like.

[Slavic Italian]

And what makes you think they used to look like Europeans before the 600s? Afghans have no Arabian ancestry and they're even darker than Persians. Even Azerbaijanis and Armenians are often pretty dark, I've seen a lot in Russia, some remain brownish even in Russian winter. Kurds are also pretty dark, even in Turkey they are considered dark people.

I also think location is a factor. Iranians in the southern regions tend to be darker. I am not saying all Iranians. I am saying a portion of them have exotic admix.

[Slavic Italian]

Dumbfuck, post me what you think an Iranian without Arab admixture looks like.

Like the first soldier on the left. He could pass for American. Have you washed your hair lately?

[Gangrel]

Like the first soldier on the left. He could pass for American. Have you washed your hair lately?

Italian calling me greasy is ironic, you guys are the definition of wax demons. Have you gone for a run lately? What makes him non arabic admixed? That he can pass as white American? Fucking dumbass

[Slavic Italian]

Italian calling me greasy is ironic, you guys are the definition of wax demons. Have you gone for a run lately? What makes him non arabic admixed? That he can pass as white American? Fucking dumbass

It's obvious without me explaining it to you moron.

[Leto]

I also think location is a factor. Iranians in the southern regions tend to be darker. I am not saying all Iranians. I am saying a portion of them have exotic admix.
Yes, in the South they may have Arabian amdixture, there is still an Arab minority living in Western Iran. But Iran is large and also multiethnic. There are Perians, Azeris, Kurds, Arabs and smaller Turkic and Iranic-speaking groups and even some Armenians.

[Gangrel]

It's obvious without me explaining it to you moron.

The results do not lie you stupid fridge with legs. Iranians seldom have any Arabic admixture, in fact it is the opposite, Arabs tend to have Iranic admixture, especially Iraqis.

[StonyArabia]

3 or 4 of these Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers clearly have some Arab or other exotic admixture.

Lol.

[Slavic Italian]

The results do not lie you stupid fridge with legs. Iranians seldom have any Arabic admixture, in fact it is the opposite, Arabs tend to have Iranic admixture, especially Iraqis.

LOL! Keep trying to convince yourself.

[Slavic Italian]

Yes, in the South they may have Arabian amdixture, there is still an Arab minority living in Western Iran. But Iran is large and also multiethnic. There are Perians, Azeris, Kurds, Arabs and smaller Turkic and Iranic-speaking groups and even some Armenians.

And you do not think they mix?

[Gangrel]

LOL! Keep trying to convince yourself.
What do we trust

Calculator developed to detect ancestry and ethnicities from DNA

Or a 47 year old semi-schizophrenic morbidly obese man who lives with his parents

Hmm

[Leto]

post me what you think an Iranian without Arab admixture looks like.
:rolleyes:

Ali Pahlavan
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1936464_112946234617_3501827_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=5f9ddd43cd6186e65547023c6fd5ef55&oe=5CD0BCAF

Hadis Fooladvand
http://www.kalepokha.ir/dl/pic/1.jpg

On a serious note this people might be some ancient Aryan remnants but I am not sure a majority of people in Iran looked like them before Islam.

[Gangrel]

:rolleyes:

Ali Pahlavan
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1936464_112946234617_3501827_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=5f9ddd43cd6186e65547023c6fd5ef55&oe=5CD0BCAF

Hadis Fooladvand
http://www.kalepokha.ir/dl/pic/1.jpg

On a serious note this people might be some ancient Aryan remnants but I am not sure a majority of people in Iran looked like them before Islam.

Typical Iranians.

[Leto]

And you do not think they mix?
Some do, some don't. Many Iranians live in the Northern and Northeastern parts of the country.

[Slavic Italian]

Some do, some don't. Many Iranians live in the Northern and Northeastern parts of the country.

So you have admitted it yourself that a portion of them are mixed. It's obvious those soldiers look different than the people you posted.

[Slavic Italian]

What do we trust

Calculator developed to detect ancestry and ethnicities from DNA

Or a 47 year old semi-schizophrenic morbidly obese man who lives with his parents

Hmm

Obese. Really? Dumbass.

[StonyArabia]

The results do not lie you stupid fridge with legs. Iranians seldom have any Arabic admixture, in fact it is the opposite, Arabs tend to have Iranic admixture, especially Iraqis.

Not all Iraqis are Iranic admixed. The Iranid admix is in some areas in Baghdad and the shrine holy shia cities. In the Western regions the Iranic admix is rare abd even in the the south especially near the Saudi borders.

Many western Iraqis are Bedouin or Saudi/Yemenite like.

[Phenix]

Also some Arabs like to spread the idea that this happened in order to insult Persians.

It's more the other way around. Some Iranian chauvinists are really dumb and dishonor their people with fake claims and propaganda.

[Leto]

So you have admitted it yourself that a portion of them are mixed. It's obvious those soldiers look different than the people you posted.
Lol, I don't have anything to 'admit to myself' here. I am well aware of the fact that Iranians don't look European which is fully in line with their genetics (they don't have much Steppe or EHG ancestry). Also like I said, it's a multiethnic country with regional variation as is the case with many other countries, especially large ones. It's like saying all italians are Sicilians and look like Al Cappone.

[Catarinense1998]

Interesting thread. I Wonder how much south asian admixture Iranians score on calculators.

[Kelmendasi]

They seem to just be typical west Asians.

Iranian_Persian:
IranNeo - 39.30
EEF - 20.20
Natufian - 13.40
Yamnaya - 13
CHG - 9
HG - 3.6

Iranian_Zoroastrian:
IranNeo - 35
EEF - 23.70
Natufian - 13.3
Yamnaya - 13
CHG - 12.10
HG - 3.6

Iranian_Fars:
IranNeo - 37
EEF - 23.20
Natufian - 13.60
Yamnaya - 13
CHG - 10.70
HG - 3.60

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_jr6EMoG_1eFm1x8hltNHW2bE5A0lW9N7XDjCU_jO_k/edit#gid=0

[Leto]

Interesting thread. I Wonder how much south asian admixture Iranians score on calculators.
Around 4% on Dodecad K12b.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h7yXUn5ZUNQM34ItjKLHMr-1HovxDPjf16jnJl-0r5Y/edit#gid=0

[Karkurdu]

Explain where you got the significant SSA admix then. Especially in case of South Iranians.

[Catarinense1998]

Around 4% on Dodecad K12b.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h7yXUn5ZUNQM34ItjKLHMr-1HovxDPjf16jnJl-0r5Y/edit#gid=0

Thanks for your help.

[Kelmendasi]

Explain where you got the significant SSA admix then. Especially in case of South Iranians.
Based on G25, they don't have any SSA, let alone significant SSA. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_jr6EMoG_1eFm1x8hltNHW2bE5A0lW9N7XDjCU_jO_k/edit#gid=0

[Karkurdu]

Based on G25, they don't have any SSA, let alone significant SSA. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_jr6EMoG_1eFm1x8hltNHW2bE5A0lW9N7XDjCU_jO_k/edit#gid=0

I'm talking about South Iranians. Iran is extremely heterogeneous.

[Kelmendasi]

I'm talking about South Iranians. Iran is extremely heterogeneous.
The southern Iranians from the Fars region show no SSA, likely that others don't as well. The near east in general has no SSA. Only certain areas in the southern Levant and Arabian peninsula show some SSA, though even that isn't that significant as it ranges from 1-6%.

[Karkurdu]

The southern Iranians from the Fars region show no SSA, likely that others don't as well. The near east in general has no SSA. Only certain areas in the southern Levant and Arabian peninsula show some SSA, though even that isn't that significant as it ranges from 1-6%.

Based on what? G25's shitty spreadsheet? you know that G25 is a coordinat based calculator not ADMIXTURE. I have seen individual Iranian results and they score SSA. Besides %6 IS a significant number for SSA.

[Kelmendasi]

Based on what? G25's shitty spreadsheet? you know that G25 is a coordinat based calculator not ADMIXTURE. Have seen individual Iranian results they score SSA. Besides %6 IS a significant number for SSA.
What are you on about my guy? G25 west Eurasian datasheet is one of the best in determining admixture in west Eurasians. I don't think you understand, the coordinates are used in the comparison in order to give admixture. Just like how you give in your kit number in order for your raw data to be compared. Post examples of such results that score SSA. 6% was found among Bedouin Arabs, not Iranians. The Iranian averages scored no SSA.

[Antimatter]

You're making it seem as if Pre-Islamic Persia was a place full of blonde people with blue eyes. Modern-day Iranians (Persians specifically along few others) are largely descended of Neolithic inhabitants of the area, perhaps designated by Iran_ChL-type admixture, the inhabitants of the Iranian plateau who domesticated the Goat and perhaps the Cattle, and also domesticated crops such as Cereals (along their counterparts in the Levant and Southern Anatolia).

These farmers were mostly J2, J1, L, I and G (and perhaps some T) people, they might have had some early R1b and R1a as well.

J (J2,J1) and I came from Iran, and we have ancient Samples of the macrohaplogroup IJ*from ancient samples in Iran.

Nowadays, R1 in Iran is approx. 25% which shows major clear continuity in Iran since the Neolithic era.

The Steppe newcomers did not contribute a major part to modern-day Iranians, however certainly a significant contribution is present (15-25% Steppe admixture in average Persian-Iranians).

[Karkurdu]

G25 west Eurasian datasheet is one of the best in determining admixture in west Eurasians.

Just LOL. Look at the spreadsheet results and see how they are inconsistent with other calculators. Results are totally off.


I don't think you understand, the coordinates are used in the comparison in order to give admixture. Just like how you give in your kit number in order for your raw data to be compared.

That's not even the same thing. You are the one who doesn't seem to understand how that works.


Post examples of such results that score SSA. 6% was found among Bedouin Arabs, not Iranians. The Iranian averages scored no SSA.

Based on G25's spreadsheet you are talking about. I told you Iranians differ significantly depending on the region and G25's component categories could be one of the most shittiest I've ever seen.

[Kamal900]

You're making it seem as if Pre-Islamic Persia was a place full of blonde people with blue eyes. Modern-day Iranians (Persians specifically along few others) are largely descended of Neolithic inhabitants of the area, perhaps designated by Iran_ChL-type admixture, the inhabitants of the Iranian plateau who domesticated the Goat and perhaos the Cattle, and also domesticated crops such as Cereals (along their counterparts in the Levant and Southern Anatolia).

These farmers were mostly J2, J1, L, I and G (and perhaps some T) people, they might have had some early R1b and R1a as well.

J (J2,J1) and I came from Iran, and we have ancient Samples of the macrohaplogroup IJ*from ancient samples in Iran.

Nowadays, R1 in Iran is approx. 25% which shows major clear continuity in Iran since the Neolithic era.

The Steppe newcomers did not contribute a major part to modern-day Iranians, however certainly a significant contribution is present (15-25% Steppe admixture in average Persian-Iranians).

Well said.

[Kelmendasi]

Just LOL. Look at the spreadsheet results and see how they are not consistent with other calculators. Results are totally off.



That's not even the same thing. You are the one who doesn't seem to understand how that works.



Based on G25's spreadsheet you are talking about. I told you Iranians differ significantly depending on the region and G25's component categories could be one of the most shittiest I've ever seen.
It is one of the best, the results from G25 are consistent with results shown in academic papers.The calc uses samples from academic papers, both modern and ancient. And explain what it means then .Ok so apparently categories like "EEF", "Yamnaya", "HG" etc are all shitty in calculating west Eurasian admixture? Nice one smart guy. Post examples of such results don't just say things.

[Karkurdu]

It is one of the best, the results from G25 are consistent with results shown in academic papers.The calc uses samples from academic papers, both modern and ancient. And explain what it means then .Ok so apparently categories like "EEF", "Yamnaya", "HG" etc are all shitty in calculating west Eurasian admixture? Nice one smart guy. Post examples of such results don't just say things.

The spreadsheet you posted is probably not even offical spreadsheet of G25, I bet you found this on AG. We are talking about the ADMIXTURE categories of the spreadsheet you posted, not the sampling. Academic papers are not all perfect when it comes to sampling either but that's a different subject.

[Kelmendasi]

The spreadsheet you posted is probably not even offical spreadsheet of G25, I bet you found this on AG. We are talking about the ADMIXTURE categories of the spreadsheet you posted, not the sampling. Academic papers are not all perfect when it comes to sampling either but that's a different subject.
It is, it was made by Davidski, the guy who created Eurogenes and G25. The categories make perfect sense, all of them contributed to western Eurasians. Saying that categories such as "EEF" and "Yamnaya" are "shitty" in this context is just incorrect and has no backing. Well academic papers are the best we can get as of now. Are you going to post those SSA admixed Iranian results?

[Kamal900]

It is, it was made by Davidski, the guy who created Eurogenes and G25. The categories make perfect sense, all of them contributed to western Eurasians. Saying that categories such as "EEF" and "Yamnaya" are "shitty" in this context is just incorrect and has no backing. Well academic papers are the best we can get as of now. Are you going to post those SSA admixed Iranian results?

The guy must really hate Iranians, lol. They don't score any SSA.

[Karkurdu]

It is, it was made by Davidski, the guy who created Eurogenes and G25. The categories make perfect sense, all of them contributed to western Eurasians. Saying that categories such as "EEF" and "Yamnaya" are "shitty" in this context is just incorrect and has no backing. Well academic papers are the best we can get as of now. Are you going to post those SSA admixed Iranian results?

The problem is not the names of the components my friend. God fucking knows which references Davidski used when making those components since he changes his reference pop. for component categories more than he changes his underwear. Stick to K13 for Eurogenes Project.

I'll post the Iranians when I found the kits I saved.

[Marmara]

Nothing surprising here.

[StonyArabia]

The guy must really hate Iranians, lol. They don't score any SSA.

Iranians did not change at all. They were just Indo-Europeanized native folks. They were not all blonds who were subdued by swarthy Arabs that changed them. Some OWDers might believe that's the case. As for SSA it's very rare, I have seen one Iranian who scores it, but it's like very little.

The Arab impact was just political and religious not genetic . After the 15th century, they adopted weird form of Shiaism, until Levantine Shias made them enter mainstream Shiaism.

[FinalFlash]

Persian average on G25

[1] "distance%=1.3514"

Iranian_Persian

Seh_Gabi_ChL,62
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,20.4
Levant_N,11
Han,5

[Freeroostah]

Well according to Herodotus ancient Persians had no differences with ancient Greeks in terms of features or bravery
I believe they were lighter back then .......... IMO

[FinalFlash]

Only 11% Levant Neolithic.

[FinalFlash]

Compare it to these Levantine populations

[1] "distance%=2.2139"

Samaritan

Levant_N,44.6
Seh_Gabi_ChL,42.4
Barcin_N,7.2
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,5.6
WHG,0.2



[1] "distance%=1.148"

Lebanese_Christian

Seh_Gabi_ChL,41.6
Levant_N,33.4
Barcin_N,14.2
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,10.6
CHG,0.2




[1] "distance%=1.4325"

Palestinian

Levant_N,46
Seh_Gabi_ChL,35.4
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,13.4
Yoruba,4
Iberomaurusian,0.8
Han,0.4

[StonyArabia]

Well according to Herodotus ancient Persians had no differences with ancient Greeks in terms of features or bravery
I believe they were lighter back then .......... IMO

Lighter? I don't think they became more swarthy due to Arabian admix. Persia was ruled only for 200 years before they broke off from Arab rule, that's much less than when we ruled Iberia which was nearly 800 years

[Leto]

You're making it seem as if Pre-Islamic Persia was a place full of blonde people with blue eyes. Modern-day Iranians (Persians specifically along few others) are largely descended of Neolithic inhabitants of the area, perhaps designated by Iran_ChL-type admixture, the inhabitants of the Iranian plateau who domesticated the Goat and perhaos the Cattle, and also domesticated crops such as Cereals (along their counterparts in the Levant and Southern Anatolia).

These farmers were mostly J2, J1, L, I and G (and perhaps some T) people, they might have had some early R1b and R1a as well.

J (J2,J1) and I came from Iran, and we have ancient Samples of the macrohaplogroup IJ*from ancient samples in Iran.

Nowadays, R1 in Iran is approx. 25% which shows major clear continuity in Iran since the Neolithic era.

Good answer.


The Steppe newcomers did not contribute a major part to modern-day Iranians, however certainly a significant contribution is present (15-25% Steppe admixture in average Persian-Iranians).
Hm, I'm not sure about 20+%. The North European percentage doesn't exceed 10% in Iran, more like 5% or so.

[Slavic Italian]

Lighter? I don't think they became more swarthy due to Arabian admix. Persia was ruled only for 200 years before they broke off from Arab rule, that's much less than when we ruled Iberia which was nearly 800 years

Better suntan lotion?

[Leto]

The spreadsheet you posted is probably not even offical spreadsheet of G25, I bet you found this on AG. We are talking about the ADMIXTURE categories of the spreadsheet you posted, not the sampling. Academic papers are not all perfect when it comes to sampling either but that's a different subject.
This is a revisited Dodecad spreadsheet based on real samples. You can check various Iranian groups as well as Kurds
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h7yXUn5ZUNQM34ItjKLHMr-1HovxDPjf16jnJl-0r5Y/edit#gid=0

[Freeroostah]

Lighter? I don't think they became more swarthy due to Arabian admix. Persia was ruled only for 200 years before they broke off from Arab rule, that's much less than when we ruled Iberia which was nearly 800 years

I agree with you on that but still Persians as people were not natives of what we call Iran. They originate from the Andronovo culture just like all the Indo-Europeans. During the Greco-Persian wars Persia was inhabited by many Iranian speaking peoples like the Mardians, Sagartians, Bactrians, Arians, Medians, and of course Persians.
I've also read that the native people had Dravidian like characteristics.So I believe their history is easily compatible with South Asian Indo-Aryan migration.

[Leto]

Well according to Herodotus ancient Persians had no differences with ancient Greeks in terms of features or bravery
I believe they were lighter back then .......... IMO
Sure the Achaemenid elite might have had more Aryan admixture. After all, that was a fucking long time ago, around 500-400 BC.

[StonyArabia]

Better suntan lotion?

They were always swarthy. I don't know why people assume Persians looked Nordics as Tall, blue eyed, and blond, when their faces and art depicts them as Near Eastern people in both ancient and modern times. The Arabs did not make them short and swarthy lol. The Arab impact was almost zero, other than religious and political, and in fact Persia never was Arabized like Iberia was. Iberia spoke Arabic, the Andalusian Arabic dialect for 800 years, yet in Persia no such thing appeared, they just use classical Arabic for both scientific and religious works. After the Mongol invasion, Persia began to use Persian for everything. Also the Turkic tribes adopted Persianate cultures. The Arab impact was stronger in Sicily and Iberia than it was in Persia, perhaps if the reconquista and the Inquisition did not happen, Iberia would have been very different from what we know it today.

[wvwvw]

Iranians are largely unmixed. Not only that but all their neighbours from Turkey to India have noticeable Iranian admixture.

[Karkurdu]

Iranians are largely unmixed. Not only that but all their neighbours from Turkey to India have noticeable Iranian admixture.

There is no such a thing as "Iranian admixture" my Greek speaking Slavic sweety. Iranians themselves are a mix of dozen thing.

[wvwvw]

There is no such a thing as "Iranian admixture" my Greek speaking Slavic sweety. Iranians themselves are a mix of dozen thing.

Iranian admixture is noticeable in features. Especially Turks are una faca una razza with Iranians and their genetics agree.

[Slavic Italian]

I am proud to have some Iranian origins.

Kurdish 1.8072222
Tajik_Rushan_Vanch 1.7946345
Tajik_Ishkasim 2.5612895
Iranian 0.759616
Tajik_Afghanistan 0.4105366
Tajik 0.4937412
Pashtun_Afghanistan 0.5859354
Pathan 0.7884161
North_Ossetian 0.8696585
Balochi 0.2765638
Hazara 0.1745875

[Karkurdu]

Iranian admixture is noticeable in features. Especially Turks are una faca una razza with Iranians and their genetics agree.

https://rlv.zcache.com/lol_meme_postcard-ra61a3bd39cca4033872abbc766c1341e_vgbaq_8byvr_540. jpg

Isn't that a bit ironic that Egyptian looking Greeks talking about phenotypes?

[StonyArabia]

Iranian admixture is noticeable in features. Especially Turks are una faca una razza with Iranians and their genetics agree.

Turkic tribes adopted Persianate cultures and even the Seljuks spoke Persian and became patron of Persian culture.

[Karkurdu]

Turkic tribes adopted Persianate cultures and even the Seljuks spoke Persian and became patron of Persian culture.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?50755-Members-of-the-Apricity-How-Do-You-Imagine-Them&p=5684807#post5684807

[Proto-Shaman]

Cavalli-Sforza's 1994 research (it's old, I know) shows that closest ethnic groups to Iranians are Greeks, Italians, Indians (probably North Indians not all Indians), and Near Easterns. Maybe Proto-Iranians, first wave and second wave were similar to Baloch people (another Iranic ethnicity):

[StonyArabia]

Grousset, Rene, The Empire of the Steppes, (Rutgers University Press, 1991), 161, 164; "renewed the Seljuk attempt to found a great Turko-Persian empire in eastern Iran." "It is to be noted that the Seljuks, those Turkomans who became sultans of Persia, did not Turkify Persia-no doubt because they did not wish to do so. On the contrary, it was they who voluntarily became Persians and who, in the manner of the great old Sassanid kings, strove to protect the Iranian populations from the plundering of Ghuzz bands and save Iranian culture from the Turkoman menace."


John Perry: "We should distinguish two complementary ways in which the advent of the Turks affected the language map of Iran. First, since the Turkish-speaking rulers of most Iranian polities from the Ghaznavids and Seljuks onward were already Iranized and patronized Persian literature in their domains, the expansion of Turk-ruled empires served to expand the territorial domain of written Persian into the conquered areas, notably Anatolia and Central and South Asia. Secondly, the influx of massive Turkish-speaking populations (culminating with the rank and file of the Mongol armies) and their settlement in large areas of Iran (particularly in Azerbaijan and the northwest), progressively turkicized local speakers of Persian, Kurdish and other Iranian languages"



C.E. Bosworth, "Turkish Expansion towards the west" in UNESCO History of Humanity, Volume IV, titled "From the Seventh to the Sixteenth Century", UNESCO Publishing / Routledge, p. 391: "While the Arabic language retained its primacy in such spheres as law, theology and science, the culture of the Seljuk court and secular literature within the sultanate became largely Persianized; this is seen in the early adoption of Persian epic names by the Seljuk rulers (Qubād, Kay Khusraw and so on) and in the use of Persian as a literary language (Turkish must have been essentially a vehicle for everyday speech at this time)."

[StonyArabia]

Also the Turkic rulers became more Caucasian, because they married Persian Princesses. Turks are mutts

[Karkurdu]

Grousset, Rene, The Empire of the Steppes, (Rutgers University Press, 1991), 161, 164; "renewed the Seljuk attempt to found a great Turko-Persian empire in eastern Iran." "It is to be noted that the Seljuks, those Turkomans who became sultans of Persia, did not Turkify Persia-no doubt because they did not wish to do so. On the contrary, it was they who voluntarily became Persians and who, in the manner of the great old Sassanid kings, strove to protect the Iranian populations from the plundering of Ghuzz bands and save Iranian culture from the Turkoman menace."


John Perry: "We should distinguish two complementary ways in which the advent of the Turks affected the language map of Iran. First, since the Turkish-speaking rulers of most Iranian polities from the Ghaznavids and Seljuks onward were already Iranized and patronized Persian literature in their domains, the expansion of Turk-ruled empires served to expand the territorial domain of written Persian into the conquered areas, notably Anatolia and Central and South Asia. Secondly, the influx of massive Turkish-speaking populations (culminating with the rank and file of the Mongol armies) and their settlement in large areas of Iran (particularly in Azerbaijan and the northwest), progressively turkicized local speakers of Persian, Kurdish and other Iranian languages"



C.E. Bosworth, "Turkish Expansion towards the west" in UNESCO History of Humanity, Volume IV, titled "From the Seventh to the Sixteenth Century", UNESCO Publishing / Routledge, p. 391: "While the Arabic language retained its primacy in such spheres as law, theology and science, the culture of the Seljuk court and secular literature within the sultanate became largely Persianized; this is seen in the early adoption of Persian epic names by the Seljuk rulers (Qubād, Kay Khusraw and so on) and in the use of Persian as a literary language (Turkish must have been essentially a vehicle for everyday speech at this time)."


Nice Wikipedia skills retard. The quotes talking about Seljuq Palace rule. Not the subjects. Your thick Arab skull can't differentiate one from another.

[Proto-Shaman]

Iranian admixture is noticeable in features. Especially Turks are una faca una razza with Iranians and their genetics agree.

Are you black?

[StonyArabia]

Nice Wikipedia skills retard. The quotes talking about Seljuq Palace rule. Not the subjects. Your thick Arab skull can't differentiate one from another.

The subjects were Anatolians who were not Turkized as of yet :rolleyes:, yet when they got Turkized they became a Persianate as well. Funny how Turks embraced Persian culture, now talk down to Persians

[Crimean]

Iran before the 1979 Islamic revolution.
There was almost a European country with an almost European population. Most people were not like Semites, rather like the French. It seems that they did not hear about Islam here until 1979, and the population darkened with its arrival. The modern world is much younger than it seems.
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/679223/679223_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/679525/679525_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/679920/679920_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/680184/680184_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/680317/680317_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/680473/680473_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/680891/680891_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/681117/681117_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/681391/681391_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/681677/681677_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/681844/681844_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/682106/682106_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/682247/682247_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/682647/682647_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/683754/683754_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/683783/683783_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/684084/684084_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/684533/684533_800.jpg
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/684569/684569_800.jpghttps://ic.pics.livejournal.com/cat_779/77615856/684869/684869_800.jpg

[Babak]

Lol at everyone making retarded assumptions and comments. Iranians are mostly natives with steppe admixture, its simple as that.

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

Nizam al-Mulk (Persian) was an important person in Turkish history..

[Borealis]

Persian average on G25

[1] "distance%=1.3514"

Iranian_Persian

Seh_Gabi_ChL,62
Yamnaya_Kalmykia,20.4
Levant_N,11
Han,5

What do formal stats have to say about Iranians' steppe ancestry?

[FinalFlash]

What do formal stats have to say about Iranians' steppe ancestry?

How do you mean? This is their actual statistics. Keep in mind that G25 has a limited sample size for a lot of groups so the averages for a certain population can change a bit once the sample size increases.

[Babak]

I agree with you on that but still Persians as people were not natives of what we call Iran. They originate from the Andronovo culture just like all the Indo-Europeans. During the Greco-Persian wars Persia was inhabited by many Iranian speaking peoples like the Mardians, Sagartians, Bactrians, Arians, Medians, and of course Persians.
I've also read that the native people had Dravidian like characteristics.So I believe their history is easily compatible with South Asian Indo-Aryan migration.


No.

[Borealis]

How do you mean? This is their actual statistics. Keep in mind that G25 has a limited sample size for a lot of groups so the averages for a certain population can change a bit once the sample size increases.

G25 is different from formal stats. G25 is based on coordinates.

[Joso]

The Persians I know look like Arabs.

Do you know how to distinguish Iranian and Arabic phenotypes?

[FinalFlash]

G25 is different from formal stats. G25 is based on coordinates.

What exactly is the difference? I had one of the more serious users on anthrogenica calculate various population averages but I'm sure that they did not specify whether they were formal or coordinate-based. Still, I don't see the difference.

[Kamal900]

What exactly is the difference? I had one of the more serious users on anthrogenica calculate various population averages but I'm sure that they did not specify whether they were formal or coordinate-based. Still, I don't see the difference.

is nMonite G25 results accurate and powerful?

[Borealis]

What exactly is the difference? I had one of the more serious users on anthrogenica calculate various population averages but I'm sure that they did not specify whether they were formal or coordinate-based. Still, I don't see the difference.

Basically, with G25 you can end up with false positives a lot of times so long as the admixture result seems normal. Say someone is German, and they are modeled as 50% Polish and 50% Dutch. On G25 it would look that way, and make it seem like the person has those actual ancestry proportions. But formal stats can sort of test for real vs. false admixture and weed out such combinations. It has a success and failure output and can even go so far as to tell you at what time the admixtures took place.

[FinalFlash]

is nMonite G25 results accurate and powerful?

I think it is, especially when you get the overall fit between 1-2. There are certainly more populations on G25 compared to a lot of Gedmatch Calcs. It also allows you to "mix-in" with more population I believe. Plus the selection of ancient samples are very good I think.

This is all based on what a lot of users on anthrogenica told me. They also said that Gedmatch is pretty much obsolete now.

[FinalFlash]

Basically, with G25 you can end up with false positives a lot of times so long as the admixture result seems normal. Say someone is German, and they are modeled as 50% Polish and 50% Dutch. On G25 it would look that way, and make it seem like the person has those actual ancestry proportions. But formal stats can sort of test for real vs. false admixture and weed out such combinations. It has a success and failure output and can even go so far as to tell you at what time the admixtures took place.

So how can we get these normal stats?

[Borealis]

So how can we get these normal stats?

They would definitely found in proper academic studies but there are also some individuals out there that do them personally. Some guy named Kurd was one of them.

[FinalFlash]

They would definitely found in proper academic studies but there are also some individuals out there that do them personally. Some guy named Kurd was one of them.

What I mean is, is there are way to do this ourselves on G25? Or is this some special tool only available to certain people? Where can I find these studies?

[Babak]

:rolleyes:

Ali Pahlavan
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1936464_112946234617_3501827_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=5f9ddd43cd6186e65547023c6fd5ef55&oe=5CD0BCAF

Hadis Fooladvand
http://www.kalepokha.ir/dl/pic/1.jpg

On a serious note this people might be some ancient Aryan remnants but I am not sure a majority of people in Iran looked like them before Islam.

Im not sure why everyone keeps associating these looks with the ancient persians. These looks existed even before any Indo-Iranian migration occurred. Some mazandaranis, for example score 0-5% steppe and can pass in Germany compared to germans themselves. 15-25% steppe is not going to impact on physical looks at all, especially since the majority of Iranians of today are largely assimilated.

Even after Islam, people still looked the same as they do today. Just like the Arab world, which was also conquered by the Persians.

[Borealis]

What I mean is, is there are way to do this ourselves on G25? Or is this some special tool only available to certain people? Where can I find these studies?

No there isn't. You can get a decent model on G25 but you have to really know what you're doing i.e. having really good knowledge on ancient pops and stuff buts its still ultimately just speculation. And yeah there are certain calculators for formal stats that only some people have. As far as the studies, thats what I want to know as well lol.

[CrazyDaisy]

Do you know how to distinguish Iranian and Arabic phenotypes?

No, but the Persians I know get mistaken as Arabs.

[Borealis]

Im not sure why everyone keeps associating these looks with the ancient persians. These looks existed even before any Indo-Iranian migration occurred. Some mazandaranis, for example score 0-5% steppe and can pass in Germany compared to germans themselves. 15-25% steppe is not going to impact on physical looks at all, especially since the majority of Iranians of today are largely assimilated.

Even after Islam, people still looked the same as they do today. Just like the Arab world, which was also conquered by the Persians.

It can, but what people forget is that steppe is not the only ancestral component that can lead to people looking like this. In fact it is thought that the genes for light skin came to Europe from Anatolian farmers in the neolithic, well before steppe existed.

[Borealis]

Do you know how to distinguish Iranian and Arabic phenotypes?

I would just imagine that Iranians looked more alpine influenced due to the mountains. Those living along the lowland southern coast likely would not look much different to Arabs IMO.

[Joso]

:rolleyes:

Ali Pahlavan
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1936464_112946234617_3501827_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=5f9ddd43cd6186e65547023c6fd5ef55&oe=5CD0BCAF

Hadis Fooladvand
http://www.kalepokha.ir/dl/pic/1.jpg

On a serious note this people might be some ancient Aryan remnants but I am not sure a majority of people in Iran looked like them before Islam.

Stears relatives! I always knew Stears is Iranian influenced

[Joso]

I would just imagine that Iranians looked more alpine influenced due to the mountains. Those living along the lowland southern coast likely would not look much different to Arabs IMO.

No, these on mountain probably look more dinaromorph. Iranid is a dinaromorphic phenotype

[Babak]

As for Arabs looking like Iranians and vice versa, they are distinguishable. Not that I have anything against arabs, but Iranians look rather different from them on average.

[lameduck]

As for Arabs looking like Iranians and vice versa, they are distinguishable. Not that I have anything against arabs, but Iranians look rather different from them on average. The reason why nobody can tell the difference is because both Iranians and Arabs are Near-easterners with near-eastern features.

Yeah to outsiders , people in large ballpark look similar but it doesn't mean there are aren't any obvious differences for natives.

[Babak]

Yeah to outsiders , people in large ballpark look similar but it doesn't mean there are aren't any obvious differences for natives.

Of course, but even natives don't realize it lmao

[Babak]

Iran before the 1979 Islamic revolution.
There was almost a European country with an almost European population. Most people were not like Semites, rather like the French. It seems that they did not hear about Islam here until 1979, and the population darkened with its arrival. The modern world is much younger than it seems.
]

Yea, even though we know this is bullshit though.

[LoLeL]

Having 10-25% steppe admixture does not result in a "white looking" miracle. Even Afghans, Central Asians, and some Indian groups who have higher steppe admixture than Iranians, do not show something special in their faces or skin color. e.g. a considerable number of Central Asians look like a western branch of Mongols with some Caucasoid vibe.

As user Babak said, per what evidences you think light-eyed light-skinned Iranians are more Aryan than the rest of Iran? Don't you guys think it could be something native around Caspian sea or mountain regions of Iran? Or do those light Iranians are genetically far from their others countrymen?


Some Iranians have African admixture. See this study: Complete Mitochondrial DNA Diversity in Iranians (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0080673)


All three Iranian populations studied here exhibit similar frequencies of western Eurasian component, represented by the haplogroups N1, N2, N3, X, R0, R2’JT, and U, accounting for 90.9% in Azeris, 86.7% in Persians and 91.1% in Qashqais. The eastern Eurasian lineages, represented by haplogroups A4, B4, C4, C5, D4, F1b1, G2a3, account for 9.1% of mtDNAs in Azeris, 1.1% - in Persians, and 4.5% - in Qashqais. This is consistent with the data presented by Quintana-Murci et al. [11] showing absence or low frequencies of eastern Eurasian haplogroups in the populations from the Anatolian/Caucasus region and the Iranian Plateau. The South Asian influence mainly represented by haplogroups M2, M3, M4, M5, M18, M42, R5, R8, R30, and the two sister clades U2c and U2d are more pronounced in Persians (9.9%) than in Qashqais (1.8%). As expected, all Indian-specific mtDNAs in Iran originate from the southern provinces of the country (Table S1). The same observation is true for the African-specific lineages, represented by haplogroups L2a, L3d, L3e, L3f and L5c, found in Persians and Qashqais with similar frequencies of 2.2% and 2.7%, respectively. These findings coincide with the data of Terreros et al. [26] who reported the same proportion of African L haplotypes (2.6%) for the southern region of Iran, but are in contrast with the data published by Quintana-Murci et al. [11], where L lineages are reported among the northern but not the southern groups of Iran.


The Iranian populations studied here and previously [11], [25], [26] exhibit similar mtDNA lineage composition and mainly consist of a western Eurasian component, accounting for about 90% of all samples, with a very limited contribution from eastern Eurasia, South Asia and Africa. The South Asian and African influence is more pronounced in Iranians from the southern provinces of the country.

[Kamal900]

From G25 nmonte:


1 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Bandari:Average 5.5122 Open Map 0 0 100
2 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Fars:Average 0.9557 Open Map 0 0 100
3 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Lor:Average 0.916 Open Map 18.33 2.5 79.17
4 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Mazandarani:Average 2.0719 Open Map 0 0 100
5 Assyrian +BedouinB +Iranian_Zoroastrian Iranian_Persian:Average 1.4042 Open Map 0 1.67 98.33


Bedouin B represents Arab admixture, Assyrian possible admixture from the fertile crescent. As you see, majority of them get no bedouin at all and the two that do get them in such minor quantities that it is practically noise and may just be due to natural variation rather than admixture.

How accurate is G25 results in your opinion?

[Leto]

As for Arabs looking like Iranians and vice versa, they are distinguishable. Not that I have anything against arabs, but Iranians look rather different from them on average.
Some time ago you were kind of anti-Ayrab and anti-Muzzy as far as I remember. Did you realize that people don't see you as Aryan or what else caused that change?

[Kamal900]

Some time ago you were kind of anti-Ayrab and anti-Muzzy as far as I remember. Did you realize that people don't see you as Aryan or what else caused that change?

He was? I don't remember him being all of that, honestly.

[Babak]

Some time ago you were kind of anti-Ayrab and anti-Muzzy as far as I remember. Did you realize that people don't see you as Aryan or what else caused that change?

Im anti neither. Ive been here for awhile and havent attacked any ethnicity/religion unless the attack has been directed towards me or my people.

Aryan is a culture btw. This term has to be stopped being used as a genetic one.

[Leto]

Aryan is a culture btw. This term has to be stopped being used as a genetic one.
The original Aryans aka Indo-Iranians, as any other group, did have certain genes. With the recent data we kind of know what they were like, more or less.

[Babak]

The original Aryans aka Indo-Iranians, as any other group, did have certain genes. With the recent data we kind of know what they were like, more or less.

Man, we might as well just not refer anatolian turks as turks then. Everybody knows what the original conquerors were genetically. We are referring to todays peoples by the language and culture they belong to. Turks are turks. Iranians are Iranians aka 'Aryans'.

[Kamal900]

Man, we might as well just not refer anatolian turks as turks then. Everybody knows what the original conquerors were genetically. We are referring to todays peoples by the language and culture they belong to. Turks are turks. Iranians are Iranians aka 'Aryans'.

Being an Aryan is an ethnicity, not a race, yes.

[Babak]

Being an Aryan is an ethnicity, not a race, yes.

Aryai or "Aryan" translates to "Irani" in the persian language. Im not sure why i have to keep repeating this over and over on this forum.

[Kamal900]

Aryai or "Aryan" translates to "Irani" in the persian language. Im not sure why i have to keep repeating this over and over on this forum.

There are people here who are likely just trolls. I wouldn't take them too seriously.

[Leto]

Man, we might as well just not refer anatolian turks as turks then. Everybody knows what the original conquerors were genetically. We are referring to todays peoples by the language and culture they belong to. Turks are turks. Iranians are Iranians aka 'Aryans'.
No. There's no Aryans now, except for the Indo-Aryan linguistic family but I don't mean them. Come on, don't be like those Indians who can't handle the fact that the early IEs (R1a) didn't look like brown pajeets.

[Leto]

There are people here who are likely just trolls. I wouldn't take them too seriously.
Am I a troll to you? Why are you white knighting right here?

[Babak]

No. There's no Aryans now, except for the Indo-Aryan linguistic family but I don't mean them. Come on, don't be like those Indians who can't handle the fact that the early IEs (R1a) didn't look like brown pajeets.

Then theres no Turks.

[Leto]

Then theres no Turks.
Turks = the people of Turkey. Turkics = Turkic speakers from Yakutia all the way to the Balkans.

[Kamal900]

Am I a troll to you? Why are you white knighting right here?

I didn't call you a troll. I was talking about other trolls like that Turk here who kept on claiming that Iranians are SSA admixed or something.

[Babak]

Turks = the people of Turkey. Turkics = Turkic speakers from Yakutia all the way to the Balkans.

Sorry bro. But we always have called ourselves Iranians or as we call it "Irani" in the persian language. This word translates to "Aryan" in our language. Wev been assimilated under the Iranian identity and have identified as such for centuries.

Anatolian turks are Turkic.

[Leto]

I didn't call you a troll. I was talking about other trolls like that Turk here who kept on claiming that Iranians are SSA admixed or something.
Well, my point was that the Indo-Iranians did have a certain genetic profile. Look at the Bronze Age samples from Kazakhstan and Russia for example. Or Farghana Valley (Kashkarchi). Even Davidski who is like a god here basically said they were white.

[Kamal900]

Well, my point was that the Indo-Iranians did have a certain genetic profile. Look at the Bronze Age samples from Kazakhstan and Russia for example. Or Farghana Valley (Kashkarchi). Even Davidski who is like a god here basically said they were white.

So? We know that, but the point is that Aryans were an ethno-linguistic grouping, not a racial one. The same goes to other ethno-linguistic groups like Berber, Semitic, Slavic and so on. Are Bulgarians not Slavic because they're not 100% Slavic genetically? Of course not which is true for Iranians.

[Leto]

Sorry bro. But we always have called ourselves Iranians or as we call it "Irani" in the persian language. This word translates to "Aryan" in our language. Wev been assimilated under the Iranian identity and have identified as such for centuries.

Anatolian turks are Turkic.
Why did you bring up Turks? They are constantly trolled for being not Mongoloid enough to be called Turks.

[Leto]

So? We know that, but the point is that Aryans were an ethno-linguistic grouping, not a racial one. The same goes to other ethno-linguistic groups like Berber, Semitic, Slavic and so on. Are Bulgarians not Slavic because they're not 100% Slavic genetically? Of course not which is true for Iranians.
Yes, in this day and age Iranic is a linguistic term.

[Kamal900]

Yes, in this day and age Iranic is a linguistic term.

That's what Babak is trying to say, rofl.

[Babak]

Why did you bring up Turks? They are constantly trolled for being not Mongoloid enough to be called Turks.

Because im strictly arguing for ethno-linguistics. A lot of turks might not be mongoloid looking, but they have always identified themselves as Turks. Its simply assimilation.

[Leto]

Because im strictly arguing for ethno-linguistics. A lot of turks might not be mongoloid looking, but they have always identified themselves as Turks. Its simply assimilation.
I don't deny that. I just called the Europoid ancestry in Central and South Asia 'Aryan' for the fun of it and for simplicity reasons. If there was no Europoid nomads from the North, then why does a Taliban guy in the middle of Afghanistan get 15% North European on GEDmatch? It's just obvious.

[Babak]

I don't deny that. I just called the Europoid ancestry in Central and South Asia 'Aryan' for the fun of it and for simplicity reasons. If there was no Europoid nomads from the North, then why does a Taliban guy in the middle of Afghanistan get 15% North European on GEDmatch? It's just obvious.

Ah yea, ok, gotcha.

Lmao at taliban guy

[Mingle]

I don't deny that. I just called the Europoid ancestry in Central and South Asia 'Aryan' for the fun of it and for simplicity reasons. If there was no Europoid nomads from the North, then why does a Taliban guy in the middle of Afghanistan get 15% North European on GEDmatch? It's just obvious.

It'd probably be more accurate to call the European component "Proto-Aryan" or "Ancient Aryan".

[Kamal900]

It'd probably be more accurate to call the European component "Proto-Aryan" or "Ancient Aryan".

I'm around 5.6% genetically "Aryan" myself, rofl.

[Karkurdu]

Sorry bro. But we always have called ourselves Iranians or as we call it "Irani" in the persian language. This word translates to "Aryan" in our language. Wev been assimilated under the Iranian identity and have identified as such for centuries.

Anatolian turks are Turkic.

Kıro, my Turkic ancestry triples your Aryan/Iranic ancestry. Your comparison yourself wih Turks makes 0 sense.

[Babak]

Kıro, my Turkic ancestry triples your Aryan/Iranic ancestry. Your comparison yourself wih Turks makes 0 sense.

Of course it makes sense since Trabzon Turks score barely any Central asian ancestry, but are still referred to as turks. I honestly couldn't give a fuck about how much turkic ancestry you have lmao.

[Karkurdu]

Of course it makes sense since Trabzon Turks score barely any Central asian ancestry, but are still referred to as turks. I honestly couldn't give a fuck about how much turkic ancestry you have lmao.

We are talking about genetic ancestry here, no one says Iranians aren't Iranic since being Iranic is about speaking an Iranic langauge.

[Babak]

We are talking about genetic ancestry here, no one says Iranians aren't Iranic since being Iranic is about speaking an Iranic langauge.

Im responding to letos comment tho since he claimed we cant be called aryans since our "aryan ancestry" is low. I dont give a shit about being Iranic, im not even fully Iranic anyway

[Leto]

Im responding to letos comment tho since he claimed we cant be called aryans since our "aryan ancestry" is low.
No, I didn't say that. In 2018 those groups don't exist anymore. Indo-Aryan is a linguistic term, those languages are in South Asia, the Iranic languages are a separate branch of the IE family.

Babak, are you part Arab or Turkic? I think you should order a DNA test in 2019. To be honest, I thought you were kind of Iranian nationalist.

[Babak]

No, I didn't say that. In 2018 those groups don't exist anymore. Indo-Aryan is a linguistic term, those languages are in South Asia, the Iranic languages are a separate branch of the IE family.

Babak, are you part Arab or Turkic? I think you should order a DNA test in 2019. To be honest, I thought you were kind of Iranian nationalist.

Jesus christ dude. How many times do i have to say that the literal translation of the word "Irani" translates to ARYAN. When an Iranian is referring to themselves as an "Irani" they are literally saying "Aryan". Do you understand?

Im part azeri.

[Leto]

Jesus christ dude. How many times do i have to say that the literal translation of the word "Irani" translates to ARYAN. When an Iranian is referring to themselves as an "Irani" they are literally saying "Aryan". Do you understand?

I'm obviously aware of the etymology. I've studied languages and even a bit of Persian and Turkic (no conversational level but I know the Perso-Arabic script more or less). What I mean is that 'Indo-Aryan' and 'Iranic' are two SEPARATE branches of the IE family. Indo-Aryan is Hindi, Punjabi, Bengali, etc. Iranic is Persian, Pashto, Kurdish, etc.

Im part azeri.
I assume there's massive assimilation going on in the IR of Iran. They are civic Shia Islamic nationalists and want a common Shia identity for all citizens of the country. Also, Persian is the sole official language. Is that correct?

[Karkurdu]

Im responding to letos comment tho since he claimed we cant be called aryans since our "aryan ancestry" is low. I dont give a shit about being Iranic, im not even fully Iranic anyway

Then either submit to Tengri or stfu.