Moldovans more Slavic or Vlach genetically ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

vote in the upcoming poll

[Bosniensis]

I think they are 50%/50%. They are similar to Croats.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I think they are 50%/50%. They are similar to Croats.

Yup, only more eastern because of some minor steppe admix I guess.

[HungryLion]

I agree, although I would say that they are perhaps more slavic.

[ixulescu]

are we talking about Moldovans from Romania or Rep of Moldova?

[Blondie]

Being vlach was a cultural thing not genetically, neither ethnically.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

are we talking about Moldovans from Romania or Rep of Moldova?

How about both ?

[Aspirin]

These from Romania are more Balkan, these from RM are more Slavic, still, majority in RM are dark haired, and are far from Ukrainians.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Being vlach was a cultural thing not genetically, neither ethnically.

I mean in ethnic sense, Romanized Paleo-Balkan tribes (Dacians, Thracians, Illyrians) :)

[Aspirin]

Being vlach was a cultural thing not genetically, neither ethnically.

Absolutely not, in this case countries like Romania and Moldova need to be inexistent today, and Romanian language too. Vlach is a cultural, genetic, and linguistic thing.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

These from Romania are more Balkan, these from RM are more Slavic, still, majority in RM are dark haired, and ar far from Ukrainians.

Look at this mate, RM Moldovans are half way between Belgorod and Bulgarians. Or half way between Lviv and Romanians.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

[Leto]

I remember a Moldovan couple in Russia, they worked for my sister. They immigrated to Russia, obtained Russian citizenship, their daughter doesn't speak Romanian, the man even changed his name from Ion to Ivan. That's what I call assimilation! Though I think they should have stayed in their country, because if everyone leaves, who would be living there?
He looked more 'Slavic' (in Russia looking Slavic means looking like a typical Russian), while the woman was more Balkanic.

[Blondie]

Absolutely not, in this case countries like Romania and Moldova need to be inexistent today, and Romanian language too. Vlach is a cultural, genetic, and linguistic thing.

Nope:

"The term also became a synonym in the Balkans for the social category of shepherds[4], and was also used for non-Romance-speaking peoples"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

Not all vlach were latin speaker, it's a cultural thing.

[Aspirin]

Nope:

"The term also became a synonym in the Balkans for the social category of shepherds[4], and was also used for non-Romance-speaking peoples"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

Not all vlach were latin speaker, it's a cultural thing.

Used due to assimilation. Plenty of Vlachs was assimilated in Carpathians by Ruthenians. In Balkans was used as a social category only in Western Balkans.

[Aspirin]

Look at this mate, RM Moldovans are half way between Belgorod and Bulgarians. Or half way between Lviv and Romanians.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

Moldavians from RM in the past 200 assimilated some Slavic colonists, this is the reason why they plot northern. I myself have some recent Ukrainian admixture.

[ixulescu]

Nope:

"The term also became a synonym in the Balkans for the social category of shepherds[4], and was also used for non-Romance-speaking peoples"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

Not all vlach were latin speaker, it's a cultural thing.

1000 years ago Vlachs were very close, they could have been considered one ethnicity.

In the meanwhile, Vlach has become many things: a meta-ethnicity, a language group, a social class, a shepherding tradition etc.

[Bosniensis]

Being vlach was a cultural thing not genetically, neither ethnically.

Vlachs are now mostly assimilated Romance speakers of Western Balkans.

They became cultural thing because they were herdsmen and then as Slavic speakers they maintaned some of Pre-Slavic culture (which is why it was considered a "culture", "folk tradition")

Vlach is an exonym for Illyrians, Thracian people.

Bulgarians for example are sometimes even 80% Vlach and 20% Slavic.

[ixulescu]

They became cultural thing because they were herdsmen

We shouldn't repeat bullshit like this.
Very few Vlachs were shepherds, less than 5% of the population. Vlach shepherding limits the number of herds for a given area. This was done to prevent horizontal transhumance. It is also why Vlach shepherds could act as border guards at the same time.

Vlachs preserved this particular tradition of Roman shepherding, but very few Vlachs were actual shepherds. In fact, in most places where Vlach shepherding was practiced, historic lists of shepherds families are preserved because they had special taxation (if any). These families were always a small fraction of the overall population.

[Bosniensis]

We shouldn't repeat bullshit like this.
Very few Vlachs were shepherds, less than 5% of the population. Vlach shepherding limits the number of herds for a given area. This was done to prevent horizontal transhumance. It is also why Vlach shepherds could act as border guards at the same time.

Vlachs preserved this particular tradition of Roman shepherding, but very few Vlachs were actual shepherds. In fact, in most places where Vlach shepherding was practiced, historic lists of shepherds families are preserved because they had special taxation (if any). These families were always a small fraction of the overall population.

My opinion is that those who were not herders were already identified under different name.

My ancestors are directly related to Predojević Vlachs of Eastern Herzegovina who were minor lords under higher ranking lord.

They were called Serbs or Serbian Vlachs and then just Serbs.

Actually Bosnian Muslims are of opinion that most of Serbs are Vlachs, and current gedmatch results tend to agree with that.

[Pubiczar]

My opinion is that those who were not herders were already identified under different name.

My ancestors are directly related to Predojević Vlachs of Eastern Herzegovina who were minor lords under higher ranking lord.

They were called Serbs or Serbian Vlachs and then just Serbs.

Actually Bosnian Muslims are of opinion that most of Serbs are Vlachs, and current gedmatch results tend to agree with that.

You are a true Thraco-Roman Vlach!
Now even upgraded to a Muslim version of it!
I am truly jealous because I am just a Macedonian Slav!

[Ford]

Actually Bosnian Muslims are of opinion that most of Serbs are Vlachs, and current gedmatch results tend to agree with that.

In what way? All results I've seen so far tells that Bosniaks and Serbs are very similar, unless you also consider Bosniaks to be Vlachs too.

[Bosniensis]

You are a true Thraco-Roman Vlach!
Now even upgraded to a Muslim version of it!
I am truly jealous because I am just a Macedonian Slav!

Don't vex me with your inferiority complexes installed by saharid Greeks.

[Bosniensis]

In what way? All results I've seen so far tells that Bosniaks and Serbs are very similar, unless you also consider Bosniaks to be Vlachs too.

Bosniak is an exonym for Western Balkan populace of Ottoman culture and religion.

Bosniaks like all South Slavs are Vlach influenced from 40-80% depending on the region and ancestry.

[Pubiczar]

Don't vex me with your inferiority complexes installed by saharid Greeks.

Look, Thracians were Romanized and became Vlachs!
And Vlachs = Serbs!
Aren't you a Muslim Serb?

[Bosniensis]

Look, Thracians were Romanized and became Vlachs!
And Vlachs = Serbs!
Aren't you a Muslim Serb?

Yes Muslim Serb now Bosniaks.

Yes, actually DNK Project from Serbia said: Predojevic Vlachs from Eastern Herzegovina as the Most probable ancestry according to STR numbers.

[HungryLion]

My opinion is that those who were not herders were already identified under different name.

My ancestors are directly related to Predojević Vlachs of Eastern Herzegovina who were minor lords under higher ranking lord.

They were called Serbs or Serbian Vlachs and then just Serbs.

Actually Bosnian Muslims are of opinion that most of Serbs are Vlachs, and current gedmatch results tend to agree with that.

There is no big difference between the Bosnian and the Serb genetic .
My ancestors are I2a1b and nobody called them vlach, they lived in župa, etc.

[Bosniensis]

There is no big difference between the Bosnian and the Serb genetic .
My ancestors are I2a1b and nobody called them vlach, they lived in župa, etc.

Vlach is a dead name on western balkans, cause they were Orthodox Christians and assimilated into Serbs.

100.000 in Bosnia, 200.000 in Serbia 1850 A.D. Romance speaking Vlachs according to Ottoman Defter

After school system progressed they were assimilated into Serbs mostly, while muslims were called muslims.

Vlachs culturally today are only Romanians, it is their name now.

That's why we plot close to Romanians and Bulgarians.

[Pubiczar]

Yes Muslim Serb now Bosniaks.

Yes, actually DNK Project from Serbia said: Predojevic Vlachs from Eastern Herzegovina as the Most probable ancestry according to STR numbers.

You see, you are a pure Vlach!
You have nothing to do with Ukrainians and Russians.
Your ancestors were the Romans!

[HungryLion]

this is insane ...You whit 40% north euro ( or very close) think you are vlach, even if u have slavic haplogrup...In other hand, guy from Mk who are like one mile south think he is a slav...Even if he didnt reveling haplogrup..

Mother of good help me...

[Bosniensis]

You see, you are a pure Vlach!
You have nothing to do with Ukrainians and Russians.
Your ancestors were the Romans!

Not Romans but Romanized western balkan people who were given Citizenship.

Romans are West Coast Anatolian Turks, Greeks, Southern Italians with Rome and Ravenna (Exarchate of Ravenna)

[HungryLion]

Vlach is a dead name on western balkans, cause they were Orthodox Christians and assimilated into Serbs.

100.000 in Bosnia, 200.000 in Serbia 1850 A.D. Romance speaking Vlachs according to Ottoman Defter

After school system progressed they were assimilated into Serbs mostly, while muslims were called muslims.

Vlachs culturally today are only Romanians, it is their name now.

That's why we plot close to Romanians and Bulgarians.

But we dont :D

Yes, serbian E-V13 nad some J2b are vlach by origins...Not you, not I2a1b...

[Bosniensis]

this is insane ...You whit 40% north euro ( or very close) think you are vlach, even if u have slavic haplogrup...In other hand, guy from Mk who are like one mile south think he is a slav...Even if he didnt releve haplogrup..

Mother of good help me...

Romanians claim they have never had Slavic migrations, they have 40% north euro and speak Latin-like language, Roman Empire is their sole identity.

Do you think they are crazy?

[Bosniensis]

But we dont :D

Yes, serbian E-V13 nad some J2b are vlach by origins...Not you, not I2a1b...

Romans were I2a1a why not I2a1b?

They are our Cousins AT LEAST!

Etruscans were I2a1a, Dalmatian Illyrian I2a2 and I2a1 and J2a etc...

What is so ugly about I2a1b?

I2a1b is closer than any R1b


By Paternal line every Sardinian is closer to me than to any R1b Italian.

[Pubiczar]

this is insane ...You whit 40% north euro ( or very close) think you are vlach, even if u have slavic haplogrup...In other hand, guy from Mk who are like one mile south think he is a slav...Even if he didnt releve haplogrup..

Mother of good help me...

South or North plotting is just a crap...
The Berbers are even more south, are they more Roman?
Listen what Gedza has to say, he had read a lot of books about the Romans.

[Ford]

Romanians claim they have never had Slavic migrations, they have 40% north euro and speak Latin-like language, Roman Empire is their sole identity.

Do you think they are crazy?

My ancestors definitely spoke a Latin language, just look at my haplogroup. Yet, I plot closer to Croats than to the average Serbian, doesn't have to mean anything if one is more northern or not.

[ixulescu]

Romanians claim they have never had Slavic migrations, they have 40% north euro and speak Latin-like language, Roman Empire is their sole identity.

^ The only thing true in the above is that Romanian is a Latin based language.
I've never met a Romanian claiming any of the rest.

[Bosniensis]

^ The only thing true in the above is that Romanian is a Latin based language.
I've never met a Romanian claiming any of the rest.

Your anthem perhaps?

"Grand children of Romans"

[HungryLion]

Romanians claim they have never had Slavic migrations, they have 40% north euro and speak Latin-like language, Roman Empire is their sole identity.

Do you think they are crazy?

I honestly do not care.
Although there is too much evidence of the presence of the Slavs on their territory.
they spoke very much slavic in the past, at least some of them...

According to this logic, it is only logical that Serbia and Bosnia and the Dalmatia are the territory of the same people.

[Ford]

Vlach is a dead name on western balkans, cause they were Orthodox Christians and assimilated into Serbs.

100.000 in Bosnia, 200.000 in Serbia 1850 A.D. Romance speaking Vlachs according to Ottoman Defter

After school system progressed they were assimilated into Serbs mostly, while muslims were called muslims.

Vlachs culturally today are only Romanians, it is their name now.

That's why we plot close to Romanians and Bulgarians.

I meant to quote this with my last comment.

My ancestors definitely spoke a Latin language, just look at my haplogroup. Yet, I plot closer to Croats than to the average Serbian, doesn't have to mean anything if one is more northern or not.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I honestly do not care.
Although there is too much evidence of the presence of the Slavs on their territory.
they spoke very much slavic in the past, at least some of them...

According to this logic, it is only logical that Serbia and Bosnia and the Dalmatia are the territory of the same people.

:picard2:

[HungryLion]

South or North plotting is just a crap...
The Berbers are even more south, are they more Roman?
Listen what Gedza has to say, he had read a lot of books about the Romans.

Of course, then Macedonia is an old Serbia, and most Mk have serbian origins by that logic.

[HungryLion]

My ancestors definitely spoke a Latin language, just look at my haplogroup. Yet, I plot closer to Croats than to the average Serbian, doesn't have to mean anything if one is more northern or not.

Agree..Btw
some support when he(Gedza) says Serbs are Vlach, but they do not support it when he thinks that they themselves are Serbs...this is connected LOL

[ixulescu]

Your anthem perhaps?

"Grand children of Romans"

This might be a shock to you, but all Vlachs call themselves Roman. This is because they used to be Roman citizens, not because they were Italic or anything like that.

Romanians call themselves Român, which comes from the same thing.

[Pubiczar]

Of course, then Macedonia is an old Serbia, and most Mk have serbian origins by that logic.

And the Serbs = Vlachs.

So basically we are Vlachs!

[Blondie]

Romans are West Coast Anatolian Turks

https://media.giphy.com/media/AuIvUrZpzBl04/giphy.gif

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Mates let's get back to topic, I'm fucking tired of Serb shitposting.

[Bosniensis]

This might be a shock to you, but all Vlachs call themselves Roman. This is because they used to be Roman citizens, not because they were Italic or anything like that.

Romanians call themselves Român, which comes from the same thing.

Do you think that Serbs are not Român and that you are?

Serbs and Romanians share the similar autosomal, I2a1b, R1a haplogroup.

Do you think that those I2a1b and R1a Romanians are something different to Serbs of the same YDNA and similar autosomal?

[HungryLion]

And the Serbs = Vlachs.

So basically we are Vlachs!

Or just Serbs cuz its same right? Long live Old Serbia :thumb001:

[Bosniensis]

And the Serbs = Vlachs.

So basically we are Vlachs!

Justinian the Great was basically a modern "northern" Macedonian

Latin language was popular on Balkans more than English today.

If anyone believes that FYR Macedonians are Slavs is lunatic.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Or just Serbs cuz its same right? Long live Old Serbia :thumb001:

That's true, you were living much deeper in Balkans before Ottoman plague pushed you much more north and west right to us and Magyars.

[HungryLion]

That's true, you were living much deeper in Balkans before Ottoman plague pushed you much more north and west right to us and Magyars.

Some of us, but some live in south Dalmatia and whole herzegovina .

[ixulescu]

Do you think that Serbs are not Român and that you are?


If former Roman citizenship of their ancestors is important to today's Serbs they are welcome to call themselves as such.

[Blondie]

Do you think that Serbs are not Român and that you are?

Serbs and Romanians share the similar autosomal, I2a1b, R1a haplogroup.

Do you think that those I2a1b and R1a Romanians are something different to Serbs of the same YDNA and similar autosomal?

These haplos are all slavic markers.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Justinian the Great was basically a modern "northern" Macedonian

Latin language was popular on Balkans more than English today.

If anyone believes that FYR Macedonians are Slavs is lunatic.

They are Slavic because they are Slavic language speakers you fucking idiot. Genetically they are mix but more native

[HungryLion]

Justinian the Great was basically a modern "northern" Macedonian

Latin language was popular on Balkans more than English today.

If anyone believes that FYR Macedonians are Slavs is lunatic.

And point is ? We are Serb-vlach from Mk to Dalmatia or ?

[Pubiczar]

Or just Serbs cuz its same right? Long live Old Serbia :thumb001:

But if we call ourselves Serbs than we will lose our Roman identity...
We must call ourselves Vlachs as Gedza says!
Long live the Vlachs

[Bosniensis]

If former Roman citizenship of their ancestors is important to today's Serbs they are welcome to call themselves as such.

It isn't important.

What is important is that someone wants to present Serbs as 10th century savages who came from Russia and stole someones land.

I just want to dismiss those theories.

Nobody has intention to restore any Roman heritage or whatever.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Some of us, but some live in south Dalmatia and whole herzegovina .

I doubt that because you have left absolutely no traces of material or archeological remnants there. Nothing. On the other hand North Macedonia and Kosovo are full with your medieval heritage.

[Cumansky]

Moldovan MDLP K23b

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 30.48
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 29.42
3 European_Early_Farmers 18.42
4 Near_East 5.85
5 South_Central_Asian 4.34
6 South_Indian 3.28
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.98
8 Arctic 1.88
9 North_African 1.86
10 East_Siberian 1.15
11 Australoid 0.78
12 Tungus-Altaic 0.33
13 Amerindian 0.18
14 Archaic_Human 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 5.47
2 Slovenian ( ) 6.02
3 Serb_Serbia ( ) 6.19
4 Hungarian ( ) 6.42
5 Serb_BH ( ) 6.62
6 Czech ( ) 6.7
7 Croat ( ) 6.74
8 Bosnian ( ) 6.79
9 Montenegrian ( ) 7.2
10 Croat_BH ( ) 7.76
11 Slovak ( ) 8.27
12 Austrian ( ) 8.81
13 Bulgarian ( ) 9.31
14 Macedonian ( ) 9.49
15 Ukrainian_West ( ) 9.64
16 Kashub ( ) 10.5
17 Romanian ( ) 10.91
18 Sorb ( ) 11.17
19 Italian_North ( ) 11.75
20 German ( ) 11.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.9% Austrian ( ) + 44.1% Romanian ( ) @ 3.01
2 66.5% Czech ( ) + 33.5% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 3.14
3 50.3% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 49.7% Moksha ( ) @ 3.21
4 72.1% Czech ( ) + 27.9% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) @ 3.28
5 52% Russian-North-West ( ) + 48% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 3.29
6 90.7% Serb_Serbia ( ) + 9.3% Cochin_Jew ( ) @ 3.31
7 73.1% Czech ( ) + 26.9% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 3.33
8 70.9% Czech ( ) + 29.1% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) @ 3.34
9 60% Romanian ( ) + 40% North_German ( ) @ 3.36
10 92% Montenegrian ( ) + 8% Tamil_Singapore ( ) @ 3.37
11 91.5% Montenegrian ( ) + 8.5% Hindi ( ) @ 3.38
12 91.8% Montenegrian ( ) + 8.2% Marathi ( ) @ 3.38
13 50.6% Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) + 49.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 3.39
14 70% Czech ( ) + 30% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) @ 3.39
15 68.6% German ( ) + 31.4% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 3.4
16 92% Montenegrian ( ) + 8% Kshatriya ( ) @ 3.42
17 69.3% Czech ( ) + 30.7% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 3.43
18 92.4% Montenegrian ( ) + 7.6% Meghawal ( ) @ 3.44
19 73.9% Czech ( ) + 26.1% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 3.46
20 64% Romanian ( ) + 36% Dane ( ) @ 3.47

[HungryLion]

But if we call ourselves Serbs than we will lose our Roman identity...
We must call ourselves Vlachs as Gedza says!
Long live the Vlachs

He think that Serbian identitet was primary...When he say Vlach he think illyrians-serbs.

[Dick]

I
It isn't important.

What is important is that someone wants to present Serbs as 10th century savages who came from Russia and stole someones land.

I just want to dismiss those theories.

Nobody has intention to restore any Roman heritage or whatever.
Why are you obsessed with this shit. French stole land from natives so what. Life goes on

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Serbia was mostly Thracian btw.

[HungryLion]

I doubt that because you have left absolutely no traces of material or archeological remnants there. Nothing. On the other hand North Macedonia and Kosovo are full with your medieval heritage.

Lol..Croats were never south or east of Bihac.
Croats have nothing to do with Bosnia or Herzegovina, not even South Dalmatia.

[Bosniensis]

I
Why are you obsessed with this shit. French stole land from natives so what. Life goes on

Because when Albanians took Kosovo they said: "Why you complain even Naisus (Niš) is our city that you stole from us in 8th century (Haradinaj)"

Tomorrow they will tell the same for Bosnian territory.

Italy is already saying that Dalmatia is Italian territory because Croats are ALIENS in Dalmatia.

I speak of that because it's of UTMOST importance.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Lol..Croats were never south or east of Bihac.
Croats have nothing to do with Bosnia or Herzegovina, not even South Dalmatia.

Only in your little četnik dreams. I get it, your ancestors got expelled from Croatia, you don't plot with Serbs but with Croats and you're extremely butthurt about it. Pribivlach is similar case.

[HungryLion]

Because when Albanians took Kosovo they said: "Why you complain even Naisus (Niš) is our city that you stole from us in 8th century (Haradinaj)"

Tomorrow they will tell the same for Bosnian territory.

Italy is already saying that Dalmatia is Italian territory because Croats are ALIENS in Dalmatia.

I speak of that because it's of UTMOST importance.

well :rolleyes:

In South Dalmatia nad Zagora probably, north Dalmatia have Croatian presence .

[Cumansky]

I posted modern Moldovan, what is opinions?

[Dick]

Because when Albanians took Kosovo they said: "Why you complain even Naisus (Niš) is our city that you stole from us in 8th century (Haradinaj)"

Tomorrow they will tell the same for Bosnian territory.

Italy is already saying that Dalmatia is Italian territory because Croats are ALIENS in Dalmatia.

I speak of that because it's of UTMOST importance.
Albanians are leaving Kosovo if they can and they’re not having babies. Soon nobody will live there except nato troops

[HungryLion]

Only in your little četnik dreams. I get it, your ancestors got expelled from Croatia, you don't plot with Serbs but with Croats and you're extremely butthurt about it. Pribivlach is similar case.

Nope, you are wrong...Like in many thing.
I really do not care, just saying my opinion, are not your male ancestors come from Serbs from montenegro?

[Aspirin]

edit

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I posted modern Moldovan, what is opinions?

Post Eurogenes

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Because when Albanians took Kosovo they said: "Why you complain even Naisus (Niš) is our city that you stole from us in 8th century (Haradinaj)"

Tomorrow they will tell the same for Bosnian territory.

Italy is already saying that Dalmatia is Italian territory because Croats are ALIENS in Dalmatia.

I speak of that because it's of UTMOST importance.

Italy is 19th century construct, Croatian state was born in Dalmatia 1000 years before that. Try again xD

[HungryLion]

Italy is 19th century construct, Croatian state was born in Dalmatia 1000 years before that. Try again xD

but there is no evidence for it, there is no grave of a single king

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

These people (mostly youth) are from the village of my father. Three children here are gypsies (6 and 7 photos).

They look East Euro mate, but different from East Slavic. Not Balkanic though if you ask me.

[Aspirin]

My parents

...

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

but there is no evidence for it, there is no grave of a single king

Please. There are papal documents and historical documents about it. Royal graves got destructed after Knin was sacked by Turks dumbass. Where are Serb royal graves from 10th cetnurey btw ?
In difference with you we have tons of archeological evidence.

[HungryLion]

your dad looks like eastern slav on last photo ...

[ixulescu]

Italy is 19th century construct, Croatian state was born in Dalmatia 1000 years before that. Try again xD

That's not a good argument. Italy is a successor state to the Rep of Venice.

The proper argument is population based. This is how countries were formed in the aftermath of WW1.

[Cumansky]

Post Eurogenes

Moldovan Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.94
2 North_Atlantic 24.7
3 East_Med 17.49
4 West_Med 16.82
5 West_Asian 7.79
6 South_Asian 2.11
7 Oceanian 1.56
8 Amerindian 1.52
9 Siberian 1.11
10 Red_Sea 1.05
11 Sub-Saharan 0.33
12 East_Asian 0.31
13 Northeast_African 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.11
2 Serbian 4.88
3 Bulgarian 5.79
4 Moldavian 10.15
5 Hungarian 11.76
6 Croatian 12.6
7 Greek_Thessaly 12.77
8 Austrian 14.58
9 North_Italian 15.81
10 East_German 16.23
11 Tuscan 16.57
12 West_German 18.09
13 French 18.51
14 Italian_Abruzzo 18.86
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.99
16 South_Polish 19.58
17 South_Dutch 19.7
18 Portuguese 19.74
19 West_Sicilian 19.84
20 Central_Greek 19.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.3% Greek_Thessaly + 31.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.88
2 50.4% West_Sicilian + 49.6% Ukrainian @ 2.91
3 60.2% West_Sicilian + 39.8% Estonian @ 3.07
4 61.7% Croatian + 38.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.23
5 51.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.9% West_Sicilian @ 3.26
6 52.2% Hungarian + 47.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.27
7 70.3% Greek_Thessaly + 29.7% Finnish @ 3.28
8 50.3% South_Polish + 49.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.29
9 70.6% Greek_Thessaly + 29.4% Estonian @ 3.32
10 56.5% West_Sicilian + 43.5% Estonian_Polish @ 3.37
11 61% West_Sicilian + 39% Lithuanian @ 3.37
12 54% West_Sicilian + 46% Polish @ 3.39
13 55.6% South_Italian + 44.4% Estonian @ 3.42
14 58.8% Tuscan + 41.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.44
15 70.3% Croatian + 29.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.48
16 63.6% Tuscan + 36.4% Erzya @ 3.49
17 63% Moldavian + 37% Tuscan @ 3.52
18 54.2% West_Sicilian + 45.8% Southwest_Russian @ 3.52
19 56.2% West_Sicilian + 43.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.53
20 67.3% Moldavian + 32.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.54

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Interesting former Croatian royal city Knin was center of Serbian rebellion in last war. Serbs were settled to Knin as good Turkish vassals after Croatian population was massacred and expelled.
Centuries later these freaks claim it was always Serbia.

Fucking disgrace. But when Albanians do the same to them in Kosovo than they cry crocodile tears xD

[Bosniensis]

That's not a good argument. Italy is a successor state to the Rep of Venice.

The proper argument is population based. This is how countries were formed in the aftermath of WW1.

The Orange Color = Italians (Romans), other color = Scandinavian Longobardi Barbarians, savages who massacred Oranges in other territories, that is Italy:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Agilulf%27s_Italy.png/220px-Agilulf%27s_Italy.png

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

That's not a good argument. Italy is a successor state to the Rep of Venice.

The proper argument is population based. This is how countries were formed in the aftermath of WW1.

Not really, because Venice got posession of Dalmatia 500 years after Croatian Kingdom was founded.

If you are asking about population, Italians were less than 5% of population in Dalmatia after WW1.

[HungryLion]

Please. There are papal documents and historical documents about it. Royal graves got destructed after Knin was sacked by Turks dumbass. Where are Serb royal graves from 10th cetnurey btw ?
In difference with you we have tons of archeological evidence.

Our kings are burial in churches and monasteries...No need for insult,
I'm trying to talk normally ... everything has its limits..
If you do not know about the existence of Serbs in podrinje and Eastern Herzegovina, then it is not necessary to talk about it, like for real ..

[ixulescu]

If you are asking about population, Italians were less than 5% of population in Dalmatia after WW1.

Yes, that's why it wasn't made part of Italy.

[Aspirin]

your dad looks like eastern slav on last photo ...

From his side I have some Ukrainian origins from 19th century. My great great great great grandmother from his side was Ukrainian.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Our kings are burial in churches and monasteries...No need for insult,
I'm trying to talk normally ... everything has its limits..
If you do not know about the existence of Serbs in podrinje and Eastern Herzegovina, then it is not necessary to talk about it, like for real ..

Those are Kings from much later period, 14-15 century.

You have not a single royal burial from 9-10 th century. Because Serbia became Kingdom centuries after Croatia.
and when Serbia was on peak of its power, Croatia was already united with Hungarian crown for centuries and not indipendent anymore

Our Kings were Arpads already from 12th century.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

If you do not know about the existence of Serbs in podrinje and Eastern Herzegovina, then it is not necessary to talk about it, like for real ..

Who denied it ? :picard2:

[ixulescu]

Our Kings were Arpads already from 12th century.

Did Croatia have Croatian voivodes in this period?

[HungryLion]

Those are Kings from much later period, 14-15 century.

You have not a single royal burial from 9-10 th century. Because Serbia became Kingdom centuries after Croatia.
and when Serbia was on peak of its power, Croatia was already united with Hungarian crown for centuries and not indipendent anymore

Our Kings were Arpads already from 12th century.

The Serbian Imperator, Jovan Vladimir, was buried in the Orthodox monastery in Elbasan
Just to prove you are wrong...

it is funny to talk about how the Serbs were not in Herzegovina, as if you forgot the Saint Sava and Herzeg of Saint Sava.
And family Altomanović, this is before turk invasion...
I see you ignore all the facts so I do not see the purpose of the conversation

[HungryLion]

Did Croatia have Croatian voivodes in this period?

Lol they are not exist mostly

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Did Croatia have Croatian voivodes in this period?

Bans. Ban is Croatian origin title, it is like King's main governor. That title entered Hungarian area of influence from Croatia. That's how you got Banat for example or Banovina/Banija.
Most people think it is Avar origin title, but it's real origin is rather Frankish. It was introduced to Croats when they were Frankish vassals before Croatia became soverign state.

[HungryLion]

Who denied it ? :picard2:

You said that the Turks brought us to the borders of Dalmatia and Hercegovina, like we did not beig thre before ...

[Cumansky]

From his side I have some Ukrainian origins from 19th century. My great great great great grandmother from his side was Ukrainian.

Your dad look Ukr, not even trolling

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

The Serbian Imperator, Jovan Vladimir, was buried in the Orthodox monastery in Elbasan
Just to prove you are wrong...

it is funny to talk about how the Serbs were not in Herzegovina, as if you forgot the Saint Sava and Herzeg of Saint Sava.
And family Altomanović, this is before turk invasion...
I see you ignore all the facts so I do not see the purpose of the conversation

He was ruler of Duklja (modern Montenegro) not Raška/Serbia lmao.
I am pretty sure Serbs were always present in east Herzegovina and east Bosnia, and not any more western than that. No acheological evidence for that whatseoever.

[ixulescu]

Bans. Ban is Croatian origin title, it is like King's main governor. That title entered Hungarian area of influence from Croatia. That's how you got Banat for example or Banovina/Banija.
Most people think it is Avar origin title, but it's real origin is rather Frankish. It was introduced to Croats when they were Frankish vassals before Croatia became soverign state.

I'm surprised Croatia didn't have a voivode. A voivode is a prince, a ban is a duke.
Trasylvania, also a Hungarian vassal at that time, did have a voivode.

[Cumansky]

My dad, Vlah

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Lol they are not exist mostly

You are pretty pathethic even for a Serb.

[HungryLion]

He was ruler of Duklja (modern Montenegro) not Raška/Serbia lmao.
I am pretty sure Serbs were always present in east Herzegovina and east Bosnia, and not any more western than that. No acheological evidence for that whatseoever.

Duklja was an alien country? He was Serb it is really known and accepted fact...

[HungryLion]

You are pretty pathethic even for a Serb.

I forgot about a personal union
lol

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I'm surprised Croatia didn't have a voivode. A voivode is a prince, a ban is a duke.
Trasylvania, also a Hungarian vassal at that time, did have a voivode.

Croatia was never Hungarian vassal, it was Frankish vassal before archieving indipendence. With Hungary it was in personal Union which is not the same as vassalage.

Younger brother of the King was Prince of Croatia traditionally, but area south from Panonnia was controlled by our own feudal Lords who even coined their own money.

Most powerful of them later became known as Zrinski family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zrinski_family

[HungryLion]

Croatia was never Hungarian vassal, it was Frankish vassal before archieving indipendence. With Hungary it was in personal Union which is not the same as vassalage.

Younger brother of the King was Prince of Croatia traditionally, but area south from Panonnia was controlled by our own feudal Lords who even coined their own money.

Most powerful of them later became known as Zrinski family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zrinski_family


Ih shit it really hapens :picard2:

Lol

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Duklja was an alien country? He was Serb it is really known and accepted fact...

It was separate country from Serbia. Population could have been the same or very similar though.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Ih shit it really hapens :picard2:

Lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia_in_union_with_Hungary

What is not clear to you ?

The Kingdom of Croatia (Latin: Regnum Croatiae; Croatian: Hrvatsko kraljevstvo or Kraljevina Hrvatska) entered a personal union with the Kingdom of Hungary in 1102, after a period of rule of kings from the Trpimirović and Svetoslavić dynasties and a succession crisis following the death of king Demetrius Zvonimir. With the coronation of King Coloman of Hungary as "King of Croatia and Dalmatia" in 1102 in Biograd, the realm passed to the Árpád dynasty until 1301, when the (male) line of the dynasty died out. Then, kings from the Capetian House of Anjou, who were also cognatic descendants of the Árpád kings, ruled the kingdoms. Later centuries were characterized by conflicts with the Mongols, who sacked Zagreb in 1242, competition with Venice for control over Dalmatian coastal cities, and internal warfare among Croatian nobility. Various powerful nobles emerged in the time period, like Paul I Šubić of Bribir, that secured de facto independence for their realms. The Ottoman incursion into Europe in the 16th century significantly reduced Croatian territories and left the country weak and divided. After the death of Louis II in 1526 during the Battle of Mohács and a brief period of dynastic dispute, both crowns passed to the Austrian House of Habsburg, and the realms became part of the Habsburg Monarchy.

Some of the terms of Coloman's coronation and the later status of the Croatian nobles are detailed in the Pacta Conventa, a document preserved only in transcript from the 14th century. The precise terms of this relationship became a matter of dispute in the 19th century; nonetheless, even in dynastic union with Hungary, institutions of separate Croatian statehood were maintained through the Sabor (an assembly of Croatian nobles) and the ban (viceroy). In addition, the Croatian nobles retained their lands and titles.

[HungryLion]

It was separate country from Serbia. Population could have been the same or very similar though.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Serb_lands_in_the_9th_century.png

Anyway must go...
I suggest returning to the original topic about Moldavians .

[ixulescu]

Croatia was never Hungarian vassal, it was Frankish vassal before archieving indipendence. With Hungary it was in personal Union which is not the same as vassalage.


A personal union means sharing the same monarch but having different administrations. Vassalage implies just hierarchy among rulers. Administrations are separate in this case as well.

You didn't get much of a deal with this personal union, if the rank of your ruler was downgraded from a king to a duke.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Well first you'd have to decide which slavs you're talking about, northern or southern. If it's northern then autosomally the unadmixed moldovan is 50/50 or slightly more balkan/vlach than slavic. Moldovans plot with serbo-croatians having a similar genetic blend.


Moldovan Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.94
2 North_Atlantic 24.7
3 East_Med 17.49
4 West_Med 16.82
5 West_Asian 7.79
6 South_Asian 2.11
7 Oceanian 1.56
8 Amerindian 1.52
9 Siberian 1.11
10 Red_Sea 1.05
11 Sub-Saharan 0.33
12 East_Asian 0.31
13 Northeast_African 0.26
This one looks like an odd result with low baltic and high south-asian, east-asian, siberian and oceanian. He/she even scores african. This is the first moldovan result with 13 components that I have seen.

[Dušan]

I think Moldavians are slighty more genetically Slav then Vlach (60-40).

[Nurzat]

poor Moldova divided into five countries/territories now: Romania, Ukraine, Rep. of Moldova, Transnistria and Gagauzia:

https://www.axatravel.ro/Files/moldavia00mare.jpg

keep in mind that Moldova has always been and until recently (and to a small extent still is) quite ethnically heterogenous, with regions inhabited by Slavs, Ukrainians, Rusyns, Ruthenians, Hutsuls, Hohols, Cumans, Vlachs, Germans, Csangos, Szeklers, Lipovan Russians, Russians, Gagauzes, Poles, Gypsies, plus the heavily Greek nobility (boyars) of the 18th-19th centuries and then the heavily Jewish-populated towns of the late 19th-early 20th century. nowadays they may most of them have been Romanianized, but from individual to individual one can find more recent or more distant traces of many of these peoples.

southern Moldovans (Vrancea, Galati) are more Vlach for sure, and as you go north they probably are more Slavic, especially in Suceava and Botosani. while Iasi and Vaslui countryside is a mystery to me - there is an abundance of German-like types (they are a minority, but anyway good numbes for these atypical faces), unique to Romania, with no historic German settlers - I am thinking they stem from the people of the Poienesti-Lukashevka culture.

[ixulescu]

southern Moldovans (Vrancea, Galati) are more Vlach for sure, and as you go north they probably are more Slavic, especially in Suceava and Botosani. while Iasi and Vaslui countryside is a mystery to me - there is an abundance of German-like types (they are a minority, but anyway good numbes for these atypical faces), unique to Romania, with no historic German settlers - I am thinking they stem from the people of the Poienesti-Lukashevka culture.

Today, there's no difference between Moldova and Muntenia anymore (proper Muntenia and Moldova, so exclude Oltenia, Dobrogea, Suceava and Botosani).
Rep of Moldova on the other hand has clearly more East Slavic influence. But also some steppe and Caucasus types (even though rare, they stand out).

[Aspirin]

Today, there's no difference between Moldova and Muntenia anymore .

Not even close.

[Nurzat]

Today, there's no difference between Moldova and Muntenia anymore (proper Muntenia and Moldova, so exclude Oltenia, Dobrogea, Suceava and Botosani).
Rep of Moldova on the other hand has clearly more East Slavic influence. But also some steppe and Caucasus types (even though rare, they stand out).

where are you from in Romania? there is a slight difference between Moldova and Wallachia in urban population and a sensitive difference in rural population. Wallachia is closer to Banat and even to Transylvania than to Moldova genetically. also, the people I know that tested for DNA in Moldova region get similar results to those in Rep. Moldova or at least closer to those than to the Romanian average which is shaped on a sample from Prahova and Constanta counties (Behar sample). have you seen all those DNA maps to see where Moldovans plot versus southerners (including Moldova region, not only Bessarabia)?

believe me, without the Romanianization brought with schooling in Romanian in the second half of the 19th century we wouldn't even be speaking the same language - Moldovan may have gotten its heavily Slavic-infused dialect standardized separately, who knows... also, Moldova had always written with Cyrillic until Romania annexed the region and imposed Latin script.

[Blondie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia_in_union_with_Hungary

What is not clear to you ?

The Kingdom of Croatia (Latin: Regnum Croatiae; Croatian: Hrvatsko kraljevstvo or Kraljevina Hrvatska) entered a personal union with the Kingdom of Hungary in 1102, after a period of rule of kings from the Trpimirović and Svetoslavić dynasties and a succession crisis following the death of king Demetrius Zvonimir. With the coronation of King Coloman of Hungary as "King of Croatia and Dalmatia" in 1102 in Biograd, the realm passed to the Árpád dynasty until 1301, when the (male) line of the dynasty died out. Then, kings from the Capetian House of Anjou, who were also cognatic descendants of the Árpád kings, ruled the kingdoms. Later centuries were characterized by conflicts with the Mongols, who sacked Zagreb in 1242, competition with Venice for control over Dalmatian coastal cities, and internal warfare among Croatian nobility. Various powerful nobles emerged in the time period, like Paul I Šubić of Bribir, that secured de facto independence for their realms. The Ottoman incursion into Europe in the 16th century significantly reduced Croatian territories and left the country weak and divided. After the death of Louis II in 1526 during the Battle of Mohács and a brief period of dynastic dispute, both crowns passed to the Austrian House of Habsburg, and the realms became part of the Habsburg Monarchy.

Some of the terms of Coloman's coronation and the later status of the Croatian nobles are detailed in the Pacta Conventa, a document preserved only in transcript from the 14th century. The precise terms of this relationship became a matter of dispute in the 19th century; nonetheless, even in dynastic union with Hungary, institutions of separate Croatian statehood were maintained through the Sabor (an assembly of Croatian nobles) and the ban (viceroy). In addition, the Croatian nobles retained their lands and titles.

Basically you are right about personal union, but there were some periods when Croatia partly belonged to Hungary as simple territory:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Oligarchs_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary.png

The Csák and Kőszegi family were significant oligarchs.

After ottomans, Croatia was austrian province just like Hungary. In the dualism (later 19. century) Croatia was almost independent, they had own parlament, army, but still belonged under hungarian Holy Crown:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian%E2%80%93Hungarian_Settlement

[ixulescu]

Not even close.
Really man, you need to see more of Romania. Don't base your impressions on TV programs.

[Blondie]

A personal union means sharing the same monarch but having different administrations. Vassalage implies just hierarchy among rulers. Administrations are separate in this case as well.

You didn't get much of a deal with this personal union, if the rank of your ruler was downgraded from a king to a duke.

Croatia was not hungarian vassal state unlike Wallachia and Moldova:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Hungary_13th_cent.png/1200px-Hungary_13th_cent.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Hungary%2C_Croatia%2C_Bosnia_and_Galicia_in_the_12 th_century.jpg/800px-Hungary%2C_Croatia%2C_Bosnia_and_Galicia_in_the_12 th_century.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Louis%27s_kingdoms_and_his_vassal_territories.png/1024px-Louis%27s_kingdoms_and_his_vassal_territories.png

[Dušan]

Basically you are right about personal union, but there were some periods when Croatia partly belonged to Hungary as simple territory:



Croatia was hungarian province 1102-1526, not a state.

[Aspirin]

Really man, you need to see more of Romania. Don't base your impressions on TV programs.

TV programs? LMAO. I was in every corner of Romania, I know very well how people here look.

[Blondie]

Croatia was hungarian province 1102-1526, not a state.

What do you mean under Croatia? In the medieval times Croatia was just Dalmatia, Zagreb territories was Slavonia and Osijek/Eszék was part of Hungary. Many times Dalmatia was ally of Venice against hungarian king.

[ixulescu]

where are you from in Romania?

I was raised in Tulcea and Constanta, but my relatives are from Muntenia and Moldova. I've spent lots of time visiting relatives in Muntenia and Moldova - in my experience, I can say that these populations are indistinguishable today (city populations in particular).



there is a slight difference between Moldova and Wallachia in urban population and a sensitive difference in rural population.

I agree that differences in rural populations are more obvious. Also, Moldova is much more rural than Muntenia, and variety is higher among Moldovan villages.




Wallachia is closer to Banat and even to Transylvania than to Moldova genetically. also, the people I know that tested for DNA in Moldova region get similar results to those in Rep. Moldova or at least closer to those than to the Romanian average which is shaped on a sample from Prahova and Constanta counties (Behar sample). have you seen all those DNA maps to see where Moldovans plot versus southerners (including Moldova region, not only Bessarabia)?

I'm not talking about genetics, just phenotype.
In this respect, Muntenia is very close to Moldova and quite different from Banat. Even though, historically, Romanians from Banat migrated from Oltenia 300 years ago, and should be close to Muntenians. But similar genotype doesn't always lend to similar phenotype.

[ixulescu]

TV programs? LMAO. I was in every corner of Romania, I know very well how people here look.

Allow me to doubt that.

A couple of months ago you gave me as examples of Southern Romanians some reality shows.
Come on, travel some more :D

[Dušan]

What do you mean under Croatia? In the medieval times Croatia was just Dalmatia, Zagreb territories was Slavonia and Osijek/Eszék was part of Hungary. Many times Dalmatia was ally of Venice against hungarian king.

Yes, I agree with you. Territory of modern Croatia (except Dalmatia and Istria) most of the past was hungarian, and later austrian province.
Some parts were under Ottoman rule in 16th and 17th century.
Military frontier (Vojna Krajina) was excluded from local authority from to 16th century until 1881.

Croats never had a country.

[Blondie]

I'm surprised Croatia didn't have a voivode. A voivode is a prince, a ban is a duke.
Trasylvania, also a Hungarian vassal at that time, did have a voivode.

The medieval Transylvania was part of Hungary, not vassal state....

[Blondie]

Croats never had a country.

They had:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Croatia_(925%E2%80%931102)

[ixulescu]

The medieval Transylvania was part of Hungary, not vassal state....

Medieval Transylvania was a voievodeship, vassal to the Hungarian king. (12-16th century)
Some parts of Transylvania were under the direct rule of the Hungarian king (those on the border), but otherwise the province had it's own rule and laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voivode_of_Transylvania

[Blondie]

Medieval Transylvania was a voievodeship, vassal to the Hungarian king.
Some parts of Transylvania were under the direct rule of the Hungarian king (those on the border), but otherwise the province had it's own rule and laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voivode_of_Transylvania

This is true but i have talked about medieval age, before ottoman invasion. And we called them Grand Prince (Fejedelem), not Voivode, but does not matter.

[ixulescu]

This is true but i have talked about medieval age, before ottoman invasion. And we called them Prince or Lord, not Voivode, but does not matter.

This is before the Ottoman conquest of Hungary. When that happened, Transylvania was ruled for a short period by the Hungarian king, then it became a separate principality vassal to the Ottomans (under the name Principality of Transylvania). After that it was a part of the Habsburgic empire and only in 1867 it became part of Hungary for 50 years.

[Blondie]

This is before the Ottoman conquest of Hungary. When that happened, Transylvania was ruled for a short period by the Hungarian king, then it became a separate principality vassal to the Ottomans (under the name Principality of Transylvania). After that it was a part of the Habsburgic empire and only in 1867 it became part of Hungary for 50 years.

Before ottoman invasion Transylvania was part of Hungarian Kingdom not foreign vassal state omfg :D

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Hungary_1490.jpg/800px-Hungary_1490.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Europe_mediterranean_1190_cropped.jpg

Do you really think that the hungarian rule in Transylvania was just 50 years old? :D :D :D

[Blondie]

"The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century."

[ixulescu]

Before ottoman invasion Transylvania was part of Hungarian Kingdom not foreign vassal state omfg :D

Do you really think that the hungarian rule in Transylvania was just 50 years old? :D :D :D

Absolutely. A part of a country cannot be ruled by a voievode.
Transylvania was a separate state with a different ruler, ruling body and laws.

Maps like these are an idiotic support for your argument.
I can show you a thousand maps where Wallachia and Moldova are depicted inside the borders of the Ottoman empire, even though neither were part of the Ottoman empire ever.

[ixulescu]

"The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century."

The guy who wrote that doesn't understand what a voivode/prince means.

[Blondie]

Absolutely. A part of a country cannot be ruled by a voievode.
Transylvania was a separate state with a different ruler, ruling body and laws.

Maps like these are an idiotic support for your argument.
I can show you a thousand maps where Wallachia and Moldova are depicted inside the borders of the Ottoman empire, even though neither were part of the Ottoman empire ever.

What an fucking idiot troll, it was a part of Hungary you retard:

"The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voivode_of_Transylvania

Every single map shows it was part of Hungary.

[Carpatz]

Romans were I2a1a why not I2a1b?

They are our Cousins AT LEAST!

Etruscans were I2a1a, Dalmatian Illyrian I2a2 and I2a1 and J2a etc...

What is so ugly about I2a1b?

I2a1b is closer than any R1b


By Paternal line every Sardinian is closer to me than to any R1b Italian.

There's a Sardinian at the top of I2a-din south tree

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-PH908/

[Blondie]

Medieval hungarian borders:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Oligarchs_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Hungary_11th_cent.png/1024px-Hungary_11th_cent.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Hungary_13th_cent.png/1024px-Hungary_13th_cent.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Map_of_Hungary_in_1490.png/608px-Map_of_Hungary_in_1490.png

https://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1200/entity_2669.jpg

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/eceurope/hunpre1526.gif

http://www.tacitus.nu/images/kartor/Osterrike/osterrike1526.gif

https://banner2.kisspng.com/20180720/cjh/kisspng-kingdom-of-hungary-middle-ages-hungarian-wikipedia-kingdom-of-hungary-5b5283978fc876.3756678915321342955889.jpg

http://www.medievalists.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Hungary_1480.jpeg

https://s2.thingpic.com/images/SV/C8uKGo17JZe2BNMZCR5zZPGv.jpeg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/bf/94/f7bf94b5702be06ca69b094b37c30957.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/47/5b/c9/475bc9f3b95ce969adbf7ad24b1df195.jpg

http://www.medievalists.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Europe-in-1430.png

http://www.estarte.me/wp-content/uploads/map-of-medieval-europe-activity-eureka-lessons.jpg

Accept it you shitty troll.

[ixulescu]

What an fucking idiot troll, it was a part of Hungary you retard:

"The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voivode_of_Transylvania

Every single map shows it was part of Hungary.

You can repeat that how many times you want, but 12-16th century Transylvania was a voivodeship/principality. A principality has separate administration - the Hungarian king was not directly involved in administering Transylvania.

It is true though, that Transylvanian voivodes were named by the Hungarian king on short terms, like 3 to 5 years (some had a long rule, but they were exceptions). In this respect, Transylvanian voivodeship of this period was similar to Phanariot rule in Wallachia and Moldova.

Unfortunately, these things never seem to be taught to Hungarians. They all think Transylvania was part of Hungary for 1000 years, which is complete bullshit.

[Blondie]

You can repeat that how many times you want, but 12-16th Transylvania was a voivodeship/principality. A principality has separate administration - the Hungarian king was not directly involved in administering Transylvania.

It is true though, that Transylvanian voivodes were named by the Hungarian king on short terms, like 3 to 5 years (some had long rule, but they were exceptions). In this respect, Transylvanian voivodeship of this period was similar to Phanariot rule in Wallachia and Moldova.

Unfortunately, these things never seem to be taught to Hungarians. They all think Transylvania was part of Hungary for 1000 years, which is complete bullshit.

Unfortunately you are an idiot autist gypsie ultra nationalist fucking troll who can't accept the reality. There were many prince in Hungary not just in Translyvania, but of course the english, french, german and all wikipedia are lying. Get a life you pathetic troll.

[Pribislav]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71mvhsYBPwI

[ixulescu]

Unfortunately you are an idiot autist gypsie ultra nationalist fucking troll who can't accept the reality. There were many prince in Hungary not just in Translyvania, but of course the english, french, german and all wikipedia are lying. Get a life you pathetic troll.

If they were princes with a principality then they were rulers.

[Pribislav]

Vlachs are now mostly assimilated Romance speakers of Western Balkans.

They became cultural thing because they were herdsmen and then as Slavic speakers they maintaned some of Pre-Slavic culture (which is why it was considered a "culture", "folk tradition")

Vlach is an exonym for Illyrians, Thracian people.

Bulgarians for example are sometimes even 80% Vlach and 20% Slavic.

Not true.
Vlachs were East Romance speakers sheperds of eastern and southern Balkan.

Western Balkanite Italo-Romance speakers (Dalmatian & Istriot language) were never associatted with Vlachs. They were urban population, not sheperds.

[ixulescu]

Not true.
Vlachs were East Romance speakers sheperds of eastern and southern Balkan.


Percentually, very few Vlachs were ever shepherds, but they had a monopoly on the job for a long time in the area.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Croatia was hungarian province 1102-1526, not a state.

Nah, those are your complexes speaking because you were suffocating under Turkish dick for centuries as their simple slaves.

[Bosniensis]

There's a Sardinian at the top of I2a-din south tree

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-PH908/

They will find another excuse.

Cause you know... Western Balkan people must be some worthless, useless people without history or anything.

If they find any value on our ancestry they will piss on it.

They can't explain how I2a1a and I2a1b are completely unrelated yet R1b and I2a1a = BROTHERS SINCE EVER

Something stinks in that logic.

[Blondie]

The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century.

Even so, the Voivodeship of Transylvania "was the largest single administrative entity"[4] in the entire kingdom in the 15th century.

Thus the voivodes were never autonomous, but remained provincial officials of the kings.[8]

The office of voivode was one of the most important royal honours in the kingdom.[35]

Along with the palatine, the judge royal and the ban, the voivode was one of the Kingdom's highest judges.[50]

Nevertheless, legal actions between Transylvanians and the inhabitants of other parts of the kingdom remained outside the jurisdiction of the voivodes.[40]

Althugh law obliged noblemen to fight in the king's army, Transylvanian nobles fought under the command of the voivode.[64

"As part of the Kingdom of Hungary":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania#As_part_of_the_Kingdom_of_ Hungary

You pathetic troll.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

They will find another excuse.

Cause you know... Western Balkan people must be some worthless, useless people without history or anything.

If they find any value on our ancestry they will piss on it.

They can't explain how I2a1a and I2a1b are completely unrelated yet R1b and I2a1a = BROTHERS SINCE EVER

Something stinks in that logic.

You are worthless, that is very well said.

[Pribislav]

Percentually, very few Vlachs were ever shepherds, but they had a monopoly on the job for a long time in the area.

They were sheperds and merchants (Aromanians).

Aromanians are formed as merchants caste of parts of many nations. They used Latin language in merchant and banker business and with time became full Latin speakers even in home. Some Aromanians were sheperds, but connected in business activities with merchant/banker Aromanians.

Only one pred. agriculture Vlach group were Megleno-Vlachs.

[Blondie]

If they were princes with a principality then they were rulers.

Absolutely not, this is Windisch-Graetz, prince of Slovenia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windisch-Graetz

So Slovenia was an foreign vassal country in 19. century which not belonged to Austria? :D You autism is amazing....

[Pribislav]

Aromanians are Jews of Balkan.

[Pribislav]

Proto-Vlaho-Romanian alike language, since 2:10.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoa-XfY0RAs

[ixulescu]

The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century.

Even so, the Voivodeship of Transylvania "was the largest single administrative entity"[4] in the entire kingdom in the 15th century.

Thus the voivodes were never autonomous, but remained provincial officials of the kings.[8]

The office of voivode was one of the most important royal honours in the kingdom.[35]

Along with the palatine, the judge royal and the ban, the voivode was one of the Kingdom's highest judges.[50]

Nevertheless, legal actions between Transylvanians and the inhabitants of other parts of the kingdom remained outside the jurisdiction of the voivodes.[40]

Althugh law obliged noblemen to fight in the king's army, Transylvanian nobles fought under the command of the voivode.[64

"As part of the Kingdom of Hungary":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania#As_part_of_the_Kingdom_of_ Hungary

You pathetic troll.

You scoured the whole Wikipedia to find just this?

The only thing I can see in your quotes is the importance of the voivode of Transylvania at the court of the Hungarian king.
None of it contradicts the fact that the voivode ruled a separate statal entity.

Let's take this for instance:


The office of voivode was one of the most important royal honours in the kingdom

This is not surprising.
When they were in good terms with the Ottomans, the voivodes of Wallachia, Muntenia and the khan of Crimea, had the rank of the Grand Vizier when they were in Istanbul, basically the highest after the Sultan. This was part of the vassalage relationship.

[Mingle]

Moldovan Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.94
2 North_Atlantic 24.7
3 East_Med 17.49
4 West_Med 16.82
5 West_Asian 7.79
6 South_Asian 2.11
7 Oceanian 1.56
8 Amerindian 1.52
9 Siberian 1.11
10 Red_Sea 1.05
11 Sub-Saharan 0.33
12 East_Asian 0.31
13 Northeast_African 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.11
2 Serbian 4.88
3 Bulgarian 5.79
4 Moldavian 10.15
5 Hungarian 11.76
6 Croatian 12.6
7 Greek_Thessaly 12.77
8 Austrian 14.58
9 North_Italian 15.81
10 East_German 16.23
11 Tuscan 16.57
12 West_German 18.09
13 French 18.51
14 Italian_Abruzzo 18.86
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.99
16 South_Polish 19.58
17 South_Dutch 19.7
18 Portuguese 19.74
19 West_Sicilian 19.84
20 Central_Greek 19.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.3% Greek_Thessaly + 31.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.88
2 50.4% West_Sicilian + 49.6% Ukrainian @ 2.91
3 60.2% West_Sicilian + 39.8% Estonian @ 3.07
4 61.7% Croatian + 38.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.23
5 51.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.9% West_Sicilian @ 3.26
6 52.2% Hungarian + 47.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.27
7 70.3% Greek_Thessaly + 29.7% Finnish @ 3.28
8 50.3% South_Polish + 49.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.29
9 70.6% Greek_Thessaly + 29.4% Estonian @ 3.32
10 56.5% West_Sicilian + 43.5% Estonian_Polish @ 3.37
11 61% West_Sicilian + 39% Lithuanian @ 3.37
12 54% West_Sicilian + 46% Polish @ 3.39
13 55.6% South_Italian + 44.4% Estonian @ 3.42
14 58.8% Tuscan + 41.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.44
15 70.3% Croatian + 29.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.48
16 63.6% Tuscan + 36.4% Erzya @ 3.49
17 63% Moldavian + 37% Tuscan @ 3.52
18 54.2% West_Sicilian + 45.8% Southwest_Russian @ 3.52
19 56.2% West_Sicilian + 43.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.53
20 67.3% Moldavian + 32.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.54

I guess its possible that the Moldovan reference sample included ethnic Ukrainians and Russians and that it's not representative of the Moldovan average. So Moldovans may not be as northern shifted as thought (unless this guy is very atypical).

[Carpatz]

Proto-Vlaho-Romanian alike language, since 2:10.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoa-XfY0RAs

This isn't proto anything. It's modern Aromanian and It's not mutually intelligible with Romanian.

[ixulescu]

Absolutely not, this is Windisch-Graetz, prince of Slovenia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windisch-Graetz

So Slovenia was an foreign vassal country in 19. century which not belonged to Austria? :D You autism is amazing....

Are you fucking demented? What has the modern period have to do with anything discussed here?
We are talking about Hungary from 12 to 16th century.

[Zmey Gorynych]

I guess its possible that the Moldovan reference sample included ethnic Ukrainians and Russians and that it's not representative of the Moldovan average. So Moldovans may not be as northern shifted as thought (unless this guy is very atypical).
Such high asian is not typical even for romanians, the baltic and north-atlantic is within the romanian average. I would say that either this individual is not from Moldova or he is a minority of some kind. It is possible that the moldovan average may have been influenced by russians/ukrainains but then who is to say that the average has not been influenced by more southern shifted ethnicities like Bulgarians and Gagauz people?

[Blondie]

You scoured the whole Wikipedia to find just this?

The only thing I can see in your quotes is the importance of the voivode of Transylvania at the court of the Hungarian king.
None of it contradicts the fact that the voivode ruled a separate statal entity.

OKay gypsiescu you are a troll, that's pretty clear. The army of Transylvania belonged to hungarian royal army:

"Althugh law obliged noblemen to fight in the king's army, Transylvanian nobles fought under the command of the voivode.[64"

The transylvanian ruler was part of hungarian royal court:

"Along with the palatine, the judge royal and the ban, the voivode was one of the Kingdom's highest judges.[50]"

This area was province of the hungarian king:

"Thus the voivodes were never autonomous, but remained provincial officials of the kings.[8]"

The transylvanian laws were a part of hungarian royal laws:

"Even so, the Voivodeship of Transylvania "was the largest single administrative entity"[4] in the entire kingdom in the 15th century."

Why are you steal and claim everything? Why are you always harassing us?

[Mingle]

Such high asian is not typical even for romanians, the baltic and north-atlantic is within the romanian average. I would say that either this individual is not from Moldova or he is a minority of some kind. It is possible that the moldovan average may have been influenced by russians/ukrainains but then who is to say that that average has not been influenced by more southern shifted ethnicities like Bulgarians and Gagauz people?

True, there's that possibility too. That's why I didn't make my statement with any confidence. There are much more East Slavs than Bulgarians/Gagauzes so they're less likely to influence it but there is a possibility they were included too. I didn't notice the South Asian, I just quickly looked at the oracle.

Are you Moldovan?

[Blondie]

Are you fucking demented? What has the modern period have to do with anything discussed here?
We are talking about Hungary from 12 to 16th century.

We have talkede about prince status which was always servant of the king, not independent rulers.

[Leto]

What kind of reference are you talking about? Here are the K13 averages:

Romanian
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.49
2 North_Atlantic 24.37
3 East_Med 18.04
4 West_Med 17.09
5 West_Asian 11.28
6 Red_Sea 2.14
7 Siberian 0.83
8 Amerindian 0.60
9 South_Asian 0.55
10 East_Asian 0.27
11 Oceanian 0.18
12 Northeast_African 0.09
13 Sub_Saharan 0.06

Moldovan
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.59
2 North_Atlantic 24.45
3 West_Med 14.99
4 East_Med 10.47
5 West_Asian 9.79
6 Red_Sea 1.56
7 Siberian 1.31
8 South_Asian 1.29
9 Amerindian 0.78
10 Oceanian 0.75
11 East_Asian 0.52
12 Sub_Saharan 0.41
13 Northeast_African 0.08

[Mingle]

What kind of reference are you talking about? Here are the K13 averages:

Romanian
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.49
2 North_Atlantic 24.37
3 East_Med 18.04
4 West_Med 17.09
5 West_Asian 11.28
6 Red_Sea 2.14
7 Siberian 0.83
8 Amerindian 0.60
9 South_Asian 0.55
10 East_Asian 0.27
11 Oceanian 0.18
12 Northeast_African 0.09
13 Sub_Saharan 0.06

Moldovan
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.59
2 North_Atlantic 24.45
3 West_Med 14.99
4 East_Med 10.47
5 West_Asian 9.79
6 Red_Sea 1.56
7 Siberian 1.31
8 South_Asian 1.29
9 Amerindian 0.78
10 Oceanian 0.75
11 East_Asian 0.52
12 Sub_Saharan 0.41
13 Northeast_African 0.08

The one used on GEDmatch (including Eurogenes). I suggested it could have included some Slavs since it was very far from the Moldovan that Cumansky posted.

BTW, interesting that the Moldovan has over double the South Asian as the Romanian.

[ixulescu]

OKay gypsiescu you are a troll, that's pretty clear. The army of Transylvania belonged to hungarian royal army:

"Althugh law obliged noblemen to fight in the king's army, Transylvanian nobles fought under the command of the voivode.[64"

The transylvanian ruler was part of hungarian royal court:

"Along with the palatine, the judge royal and the ban, the voivode was one of the Kingdom's highest judges.[50]"

This area was province of the hungarian king:


All of these are true, but are common in a vassalage relationship.

This one is only partly true:


The transylvanian laws were a part of hungarian royal laws:

Transylvania had various kinds of legislative bodies over the centuries. They wrote their own laws. Though some were possibly in common with Hungary.


The following ones are mostly bullshit:


"Even so, the Voivodeship of Transylvania "was the largest single administrative entity"[4] in the entire kingdom in the 15th century."

"Thus the voivodes were never autonomous, but remained provincial officials of the kings.[8]"

The voivodes were not that autonomous, since they were named on short terms. But the voivodeship itself was, since it had separate administration and ruling class.


Explain this:
When the Hungarian kingdom was defeated by the Ottomans and part of Hungary was occupied, why didn't Transylvania keep the name Hungary for itself, if they were one and same? Well, it didn't and they weren't.

Once Hungary was defeated, Transylvania became a principality under the name (guess which one?): Transylvania.

[ixulescu]

We have talkede about prince status which was always servant of the king, not independent rulers.

The question was about Medieval vassalage and you gave me an idiotic example from 19th century when meaningless titles were given left and right.

[ixulescu]

@Kis_Kócos

Out of curiosity, for long do you think Transylvania was part of Hungary?
Give me your opinion, then tell me what you've learned in school.

[Blondie]

All of these are true, but are common in a vassalage relationship.

This one is only partly true.


Transylvania had various kinds of legislative bodies over the centuries. They wrote their own laws. Though some were possibly in common with Hungary.


The following ones are mostly bullshit.


The voivodes were not that autonomous, since they were named on short terms. But the voivodeship itself was, since it had separate administration and ruling class.


Explain this.
When the Hungarian kingdom was defeated by the Ottomans and part of Hungary was occupied, why didn't Transylvania keep the name Hungary for itself, if they were one and same? Well, it didn't and they weren't.

Once Hungary was defeated, Transylvania became a principality under the name (guess which one?): Transylvania.

Do you know what is vassalage relationship? The vassal country has different laws, different court, independent army but they will help at war. Transylvania and Hungary had same laws, same court, their army belonged to hungarian army, they don't had any foreign policy.

Slovakia was german vassal state in 40' years, and the slovak leader had nothing to do with german court, the slovaks laws were full different, and the slovak army was not a part of Wehrmacht.

[Aspirin]

The one used on GEDmatch (including Eurogenes). I suggested it could have included some Slavs since it was very far from the Moldovan that Cumansky posted.

BTW, interesting that the Moldovan has over double the South Asian as the Romanian.

He can have Gypsy, or more probable some nomad ancestry. If he is from Eastern-Central part of the country, then this will explain many things.

[ixulescu]

Do you know what is vassalage relationship? The vassal country has different laws, different court, independent army but they will help at war. Transylvania and Hungary had same laws, same court, their army belonged to hungarian army, they don't had any foreign policy.


Transylvania had different administration and different laws. Not only different laws, but different ethnicities had separate courts. Transylvania didn't really have an army, only nobles had small army units that could be attached to the kings army when needed, but you wouldn't know cause your understanding of Medieval life is nonexistent.



Slovakia was german vassal state in 40' years, and the slovak leader had nothing to do with german court, the slovaks laws were full different, and the slovak army was not a part of Wehrmacht.

^ Useless comment about a different time period.

[Carpatz]

He can have Gypsy, or more probable some nomad ancestry. If he is from Eastern-Central part of the country, then this will explain many things.

It's not really an indication of anything. It's not uncommon for even northwest Europeans to get 1-2% South Asian on gedmatch calcs.

[Zmey Gorynych]

True, there's that possibility too. That's why I didn't make my statement with any confidence. There are much more East Slavs than Bulgarians/Gagauzes so they're less likely to influence it but there is a possibility they were included too. I didn't notice the South Asian, I just quickly looked at the oracle.

Are you Moldovan?
Yes I am and I am from the central part of the country where minorities are essentially non-existent. I'm average as per the Gedmatch eurogenes K13.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

--

[Blondie]

Transylvania had different administration and different laws. Not only different laws, but different ethnicities had separate courts. Transylvania didn't really have an army, only nobles had small army units that could be attached to the kings army when needed, but you wouldn't know cause your understanding of Medieval life is nonexistent.



^ Useless comment about a different time period.

The vassal status means same thing in the complete history you retard :D

The army of Transylvania belonged to hungarian royal army:

"Althugh law obliged noblemen to fight in the king's army, Transylvanian nobles fought under the command of the voivode.[64"

The transylvanian ruler was part of hungarian royal court:

"Along with the palatine, the judge royal and the ban, the voivode was one of the Kingdom's highest judges.[50]"

This area was province of the hungarian king:

"Thus the voivodes were never autonomous, but remained provincial officials of the kings.[8]"

The transylvanian laws were a part of hungarian royal laws:

"Even so, the Voivodeship of Transylvania "was the largest single administrative entity"[4] in the entire kingdom in the 15th century."

"The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century."

Btw romania have never been independent country, never in the history. You were always vassals, slaves and Transylvania didn't belong to Romania today....

[ixulescu]

@Kis_Kócos

Out of curiosity, for long do you think Transylvania was part of Hungary?
Give me your opinion, then tell me what you've learned in school.

haha, why did you downvote this one? can't you answer a simple question?

[ixulescu]

The vassal status means same thing in the complete history you retard :D

The army of Transylvania belonged to hungarian royal army:

"Althugh law obliged noblemen to fight in the king's army, Transylvanian nobles fought under the command of the voivode.[64"

The transylvanian ruler was part of hungarian royal court:

"Along with the palatine, the judge royal and the ban, the voivode was one of the Kingdom's highest judges.[50]"

This area was province of the hungarian king:

"Thus the voivodes were never autonomous, but remained provincial officials of the kings.[8]"

The transylvanian laws were a part of hungarian royal laws:

"Even so, the Voivodeship of Transylvania "was the largest single administrative entity"[4] in the entire kingdom in the 15th century."

"The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century."

Btw romania have never been independent country, never in the history. You were always vassals, slaves.


Yeah, more copypasta - this is Stears's retarded level or argumentation.

All the points in this list have already been discussed.

[Aspirin]

Yes I am and I am from the central part of the country where minorities are essentially non-existent. I'm average as per the Gedmatch eurogenes K13.

Are you really Moldavian? Do you live in Moldova?

[ixulescu]

The vassal status means same thing in the complete history you retard :D


Let's see what the dictionary says about it:

A vassal[1] is a person regarded as having a mutual obligation to a lord or monarch, in the context of the feudal system in medieval Europe.

[Blondie]

Let's see what the dictionary says about it:

A vassal[1] is a person regarded as having a mutual obligation to a lord or monarch, in the context of the feudal system in medieval Europe.

Yes just like the slovak leader was servant of Hitler, but it does not mean that he was a part of german court, or the slovak army was part of german army or Germany and Slovakia had same laws. This is a typical vassal situation which was not true for medieval Transylvania.

[ixulescu]

Yes just like the slovak leader was servant of Hitler, but it does not mean that he was a part of german court, or the slovak army was part of german army or Germany and Slovakia had same laws. This is a typical vassal situation which was not true in medieval Transylvania.

Vassalage relationships were the way they were negotiated. There was no book on vassalage everyone followed.

[Blondie]

Vassalage relationships were the way they were negotiated. There was no book on vassalage everyone followed.

Vassalage relationships means totally different status you autist and Transylvania was not hungarian vassal state.

[ixulescu]

Vassalage relationships means totally different status you autist and Transylvania was not hungarian vassal state.

A voivodship ruled by a voivode is a state. Even a duchy can sometimes be a state. But it's pretty much the smallest viable Medieval state.

[Mingle]

Yes I am and I am from the central part of the country where minorities are essentially non-existent. I'm average as per the Gedmatch eurogenes K13.

I see, then the guy Cumansky posted must have been mixed. Do you mind posting your K13 oracle? Never seen a Moldovan oracle before.

[Blondie]

A voivodship ruled by a voivode is a state. Even a duchy can sometimes be a state. But it's pretty much the smallest viable Medieval state.

But the medieval Transylvania was not independent state you autist.

The army of Transylvania belonged to hungarian royal army:

"Althugh law obliged noblemen to fight in the king's army, Transylvanian nobles fought under the command of the voivode.[64"

The transylvanian ruler was part of hungarian royal court:

"Along with the palatine, the judge royal and the ban, the voivode was one of the Kingdom's highest judges.[50]"

This area was province of the hungarian king:

"Thus the voivodes were never autonomous, but remained provincial officials of the kings.[8]"

The transylvanian laws were a part of hungarian royal laws:

"Even so, the Voivodeship of Transylvania "was the largest single administrative entity"[4] in the entire kingdom in the 15th century."

"The Voivode of Transylvania (German: Vojwode von Siebenbürgen;[1] Hungarian: erdélyi vajda;[1][2] Latin: voivoda Transsylvaniae;[1][2] Romanian: voievodul Transilvaniei)[3] was the highest-ranking official in Transylvania within the Kingdom of Hungary from the 12th century to the 16th century."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voivode_of_Transylvania

But of course the englisg wikipedia is hungarian nationalist website.... :D

[Blondie]

A voivodship ruled by a voivode is a state. Even a duchy can sometimes be a state. But it's pretty much the smallest viable Medieval state.

"The Voivode of Transylvania was one of the barons (or chief office holders) of the Kingdom of Hungary. The voivode was, in effect, a territorial governor or viceroy appointed by the Hungarian Crown."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voivode#Hungary

[Robocop]

I would say they're in between.

[Cumansky]

The medieval Transylvania was part of Hungary, not vassal state....

Halic-Volyn Principality

[Cumansky]

I guess its possible that the Moldovan reference sample included ethnic Ukrainians and Russians and that it's not representative of the Moldovan average. So Moldovans may not be as northern shifted as thought (unless this guy is very atypical).

I don't know region, they put next their name (Moldovan)

[Cumansky]

The medieval Transylvania was part of Hungary, not vassal state....

"Bogdan's failure in Maramureș prompted him to remove his forces to Moldavia in June 1359. This left many of his villages with only defenseless peasants. In Moldavia, the arriving forces drove out Balc and Drag, grandsons of the legendary voevod Dragoș, loyal vassals of the king of Hungary. As captains of the easternmost military mark, they had been organizing the defense against the Tatars on the eastern slopes of the Carpathians. When their reconciliation with Bogdan failed and the latter was able to gather sufficient support in Moldavia to gain independence both from Hungary and from Poland, Louis endowed Balc and Drag with the lands that Bogdan held in Maramureș and made them Voevods of the Vlachs, but this time vassals of the King. Documenting this in 1365, Louis ensured that the historic Kingdom of Hungary established its border along the crests of the Carpathians, a line preserved until the end of World War I."

[Dick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71mvhsYBPwI

This video is proof that Moldovans are white. They can't dance.

[Nurzat]

I see, then the guy Cumansky posted must have been mixed. Do you mind posting your K13 oracle? Never seen a Moldovan oracle before.

proper Moldova (western Moldova region in northeast Romania) K13 oracles:

#1, mine (Vaslui county maternal):

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.76
2 Serbian 6.09
3 Croatian 6.68
4 Hungarian 8.28
5 Romanian 8.39
6 Bulgarian 10.39
7 Austrian 11.83
8 East_German 12.65
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.7
10 South_Polish 13.56
11 Ukrainian 13.95
12 Polish 17.13
13 Southwest_Russian 17.42
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.42
15 West_German 18.1
16 Greek_Thessaly 19.12
17 Russian_Smolensk 19.21
18 South_Dutch 19.53
19 Estonian_Polish 19.9
20 Tatar 19.91


#2, friend (Neamt county both parents):

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 5.25
2 Bulgarian 5.77
3 Serbian 6.53
4 Moldavian 9.01
5 Croatian 12.45
6 Hungarian 13.19
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.98
8 Austrian 16.76
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.12
10 East_German 18.32
11 South_Polish 19.21
12 Ukrainian 19.52
13 Italian_Abruzzo 19.89
14 Tuscan 19.96
15 Central_Greek 20.21
16 North_Italian 20.21
17 Tatar 20.99
18 West_German 21.49
19 East_Sicilian 21.58
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 21.93


#3, friend (Botosani county paternal, Iasi county maternal):

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.28
2 Croatian 6.25
3 Serbian 7.22
4 Romanian 9.38
5 Hungarian 9.74
6 Bulgarian 10.74
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.62
8 Ukrainian 12.88
9 South_Polish 13.04
10 Austrian 14.18
11 East_German 14.73
12 Southwest_Russian 15.56
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.84
14 Polish 16.25
15 Russian_Smolensk 17.71
16 Estonian_Polish 18.19
17 Belorussian 18.95
18 Tatar 19.26
19 Kargopol_Russian 19.4
20 Greek_Thessaly 19.44


#4, connection (both parents Vaslui county)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.07
2 Romanian 5.16
3 Moldavian 6.42
4 Bulgarian 6.87
5 Croatian 9.42
6 Hungarian 10.33
7 Austrian 13.89
8 East_German 15.18
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.35
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.6
11 South_Polish 16.63
12 Ukrainian 16.91
13 North_Italian 18.98
14 West_German 19.24
15 Tuscan 19.94
16 Southwest_Russian 20.02
17 Polish 20.11
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.38
19 French 20.43
20 South_Dutch 20.68

#5, connection (both parents Vaslui county)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 2.56
2 Romanian 4.96
3 Bulgarian 7.6
4 Moldavian 8.29
5 Hungarian 9.07
6 Croatian 10.44
7 Austrian 12.16
8 East_German 13.9
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.29
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.61
11 West_German 16.68
12 South_Polish 17.02
13 North_Italian 17.44
14 French 17.85
15 Ukrainian 17.91
16 South_Dutch 18.12
17 Tuscan 18.59
18 Portuguese 20.5
19 Polish 20.73
20 Spanish_Galicia 20.81

[Cumansky]

proper Moldova (western Moldova region in northeast Romania) K13 oracles:

#1, mine (Vaslui county maternal):

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.76
2 Serbian 6.09
3 Croatian 6.68
4 Hungarian 8.28
5 Romanian 8.39
6 Bulgarian 10.39
7 Austrian 11.83
8 East_German 12.65
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.7
10 South_Polish 13.56
11 Ukrainian 13.95
12 Polish 17.13
13 Southwest_Russian 17.42
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.42
15 West_German 18.1
16 Greek_Thessaly 19.12
17 Russian_Smolensk 19.21
18 South_Dutch 19.53
19 Estonian_Polish 19.9
20 Tatar 19.91


#2, friend (Neamt county both parents):

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 5.25
2 Bulgarian 5.77
3 Serbian 6.53
4 Moldavian 9.01
5 Croatian 12.45
6 Hungarian 13.19
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.98
8 Austrian 16.76
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.12
10 East_German 18.32
11 South_Polish 19.21
12 Ukrainian 19.52
13 Italian_Abruzzo 19.89
14 Tuscan 19.96
15 Central_Greek 20.21
16 North_Italian 20.21
17 Tatar 20.99
18 West_German 21.49
19 East_Sicilian 21.58
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 21.93


#3, friend (Botosani county paternal, Iasi county maternal):

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.28
2 Croatian 6.25
3 Serbian 7.22
4 Romanian 9.38
5 Hungarian 9.74
6 Bulgarian 10.74
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.62
8 Ukrainian 12.88
9 South_Polish 13.04
10 Austrian 14.18
11 East_German 14.73
12 Southwest_Russian 15.56
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.84
14 Polish 16.25
15 Russian_Smolensk 17.71
16 Estonian_Polish 18.19
17 Belorussian 18.95
18 Tatar 19.26
19 Kargopol_Russian 19.4
20 Greek_Thessaly 19.44


#4, connection (both parents Vaslui county)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.07
2 Romanian 5.16
3 Moldavian 6.42
4 Bulgarian 6.87
5 Croatian 9.42
6 Hungarian 10.33
7 Austrian 13.89
8 East_German 15.18
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.35
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.6
11 South_Polish 16.63
12 Ukrainian 16.91
13 North_Italian 18.98
14 West_German 19.24
15 Tuscan 19.94
16 Southwest_Russian 20.02
17 Polish 20.11
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.38
19 French 20.43
20 South_Dutch 20.68

#5, connection (both parents Vaslui county)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 2.56
2 Romanian 4.96
3 Bulgarian 7.6
4 Moldavian 8.29
5 Hungarian 9.07
6 Croatian 10.44
7 Austrian 12.16
8 East_German 13.9
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.29
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.61
11 West_German 16.68
12 South_Polish 17.02
13 North_Italian 17.44
14 French 17.85
15 Ukrainian 17.91
16 South_Dutch 18.12
17 Tuscan 18.59
18 Portuguese 20.5
19 Polish 20.73
20 Spanish_Galicia 20.81

Why these one proper? 3/5 look more random than one I posted

Post Mixed Mode..

[Nurzat]

Why these one proper? 3/5 look more random than one I posted

Post Mixed Mode..

because so-called Western Moldova is the original craddle and original Moldova - all the capitals of the Principality of Moldova were here, all the battles, most important castles, all that was culturally relevant (historians, writers), all were West of river Prut. today's Rep. of Moldova is formed in the half of country that was very silent during the entire history of Moldova. so we are the core Moldovans, so to speak, although I support Greater Moldova and I am fond of Moldovans East of Prut as our brothers (while I don't consider those in Transylvania or Wallachia 'bros', rather 'cousins').

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia

[Nurzat]

shaping the Moldovan sample with Global25 nMonte:

fit 0.6034:
48.33% Ukrainian (Slavic proxy)
35.83% Albanian (Balkan/Vlach proxy)
10% Dutch (Western non-Balkan non-Slavic proxy)
5.83% Tatar (steppe nomad and Oriental proxy)

fit 0.7105:
55% Ukrainian
40% Albanian
5% Tatar

fit 0.6426:
64.17% Romanian
35.83% Ukrainian

fit 0.4953:
60.83% Romanian
30.83% Ukrainian
4.17% German
4.17% Tatar

fit 0.5263:
45.83% Ukrainian
33.33% Albanian
15% German
5.83% Tatar


while Romanians:

fit 1.0351:
66.67% Albanian
33.33% Ukrainian

[Max Soldo]

Lol..Croats were never south or east of Bihac.
Croats have nothing to do with Bosnia or Herzegovina, not even South Dalmatia.

Boze............

[Papastratosels26]

Vlachs

[Cumansky]

because so-called Western Moldova is the original craddle and original Moldova - all the capitals of the Principality of Moldova were here, all the battles, most important castles, all that was culturally relevant (historians, writers), all were West of river Prut. today's Rep. of Moldova is formed in the half of country that was very silent during the entire history of Moldova. so we are the core Moldovans, so to speak, although I support Greater Moldova and I am fond of Moldovans East of Prut as our brothers (while I don't consider those in Transylvania or Wallachia 'bros', rather 'cousins').

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia

Did you see those Y-DNA predictor for I2 haplogroup? Eastern Romania, Western Moldova

When my phone charges I will post some maps in this thread..

[Ayetooey]

Pure Vlach. Ancient Dacians.

[Bosniensis]

According to those Gedmatch Results, Serbian borders should be somewhere from Lithuania, Belarus or Russia all the way down to Thessaly Greece.

[Pribislav]

According to those Gedmatch Results, Serbian borders should be somewhere from Lithuania, Belarus or Russia all the way down to Thessaly Greece.

How so?

[Cumansky]

According to those Gedmatch Results, Serbian borders should be somewhere from Lithuania, Belarus or Russia all the way down to Thessaly Greece.

Genetically, I think Poland is from Northern Romania to Southern Estonia, essentially Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth border

[Iliro-Got]

I think Moldovans are more Vlach, not so much as Bulgarians or Macedonians, but probably similar to Serbs or Montenegrins.

[Dorian]

Gagauz

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I think Moldovans are more Vlach, not so much as Bulgarians or Macedonians, but probably similar to Serbs or Montenegrins.

Kaj je danas invazija trolova ? Kakav si ti jebeni Iliro-Got ? :laugh: :picard2:

[justTosee]

More Vlach.

[Veles]

Vlach, no Slavs.

[Iliro-Got]

Kaj je danas invazija trolova ? Kakav si ti jebeni Iliro-Got ? :laugh: :picard2:

Mi smo mješavina Ilira, Gota i Slavena. Imaš problem s time?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Mi smo mješavina Ilira, Gota i Slavena. Imaš problem s time?

Gotska genetika u hrvata je gotovo nepostojeća. Imaš li ti problema sa time ? Dajte se više skinite sa tim wanabee identitetima, Slaveni smo pomješani sa autohtonim plemenima.
Za razliku od tebe ja imam proto-Germansku haplogrupu pa mi ne pada na pamet mljeti o lažnoj gotskoj teoriji.

[War Chef]

Moldova is a good place to find a hot 10/10 wife..... Only thing is she might be a little crazy

[Pribislav]

Gotska genetika u hrvata je gotovo nepostojeća. Imaš li ti problema sa time ? Dajte se više skinite sa tim wanabee identitetima, Slaveni smo pomješani sa autohtonim plemenima.
Za razliku od tebe ja imam proto-Germansku haplogrupu pa mi ne pada na pamet mljeti o lažnoj gotskoj teoriji.

Srbi imaju više gotske I1 nego Hrvati.
http://www.macure.net/Content/Images/Genetika/I1-Srbi.jpg