Are Austroasiatics like Juang, Bonda genetically the least Caucasoid admixed group in South Asia?

[Maguzanci]

Of course, not counting the Andamanese tribes like Onge, Jarawa who are isolated from any Caucasoid (whether Iranian Neolithic or Steppe Indo Aryan) influence or the Mongoloids of NE India who are obviously not indigenous South Asian genetically.

Asking this because I read somewhere that they found very high levels of AASI ancestry among Austroasiatics of Eastern India especially the Juang who are a mix between Nicobarese-like+AASI+ASI (which is basically 75% AASI with 25% Iranian farmer type admix): http://www.brownpundits.com/2018/09/12/the-munda-as-upland-rice-cultivators/



High Proportions of AASI Ancestry in Present-Day Austroasiatic Speakers. The Juang are an Austroasiatic speaking group in India which our PCA analyses in Data S4 show have a low proportion of West Eurasian ancestry. We were unable to model Juang as a mix of ASI and a source that was a clade with Nicobarese (isolated Austroasiatic speakers from the Nicobar Islands). However qpGraph obtains an excellent fit by adding a substantial component of AASI ancestry to Juang (Figure 3C). In other words, the Juang have too much AASI- related ancestry relative to ancient Iranian agriculturalists to be a
simple two-way mixture of a Nicobarese-related population and ASI. These results suggest that Austroasiatic speaking groups were in peninsular India at a time when there were still populations that had little if any Iranian agriculturalist-related admixture

The Juang has been modelled as 60% Nicobarese-like and 40% ASI (which is around 25% Iranian Farmer). This would make the Juang only 10% Caucasoid (of Iran Farmer admix) and the rest AASI and East Asian then.

https://www.brownpundits.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/munda.png

So the question is: would Austroasiatic tribes like Juang, Bonda be the least Caucasoid admixed out of all mainland South Asian populations?

[Borealis]

Yes

[Dna8]

Nice post, OP.

[Maguzanci]

Yes

It is nice to know that some are still predominantly AASI populations left in South Asia even if they are 10% Caucasoid admixed at most.

[Borealis]

It is nice to know that some are still predominantly AASI populations left in South Asia even if they are 10% Caucasoid admixed at most.

But these austroasiatics are also heavily east asian mixed

[Maguzanci]

But these austroasiatics are also heavily east asian mixed

Yep that is true. But I think East Asian admixed is more unique than having Caucasoid admix which is basically almost everywhere in the subcontinent except among those Negroid looking Andamanese tribes and the Mongoloids of NE India (altho some groups might have Caucasoid admix from interactions with neighboring South Asian populations)

[Dna8]

But these austroasiatics are also heavily east asian mixed

Which peoples are the most undiluted, in South Asia?

[Borealis]

Which peoples are the most undiluted, in South Asia?

Paniya tribals

[Maguzanci]

Which peoples are the most undiluted, in South Asia?

Probably the Negroid looking tribes of the Andaman islands aka Jarawa, Sentinelese. They basically look like pygmy versions of SSA.

[Borealis]

Probably the Negroid looking tribes of the Andaman islands aka Jarawa, Sentinelese. They basically look like pygmy versions of SSA.

Yes, those would be the least diluted but I guess he's talking about mainland south asia.

[NPKTO]

Which peoples are the most undiluted, in South Asia?
Onge

[Maguzanci]

Yes, those would be the least diluted but I guess he's talking about mainland south asia.

Then probably the Paniya like you answered (if not counting their Iran Farmer type Caucasoid admix) or the Austroasiatics (if you don't count their heavy Mongoloid admix)

[Borealis]

Andaman islanders are an even more archaic form of AASI than that which is found in mainland south asia and they also have some archaic southeast Asian mix as well. That southeast asian mix makes them similar to Austroasiatic tribals and makes them something of a transitional group between South and southeast Asia.

[Dna8]

Onge

Cheers, I just wiki'd them.

And which people, would you say, are the purest Indids?

^Perceive purity and Indidism, however you like.

[Borealis]

Then probably the Paniya like you answered (if not counting their Iran Farmer type Caucasoid admix) or the Austroasiatics (if you don't count their heavy Mongoloid admix)

Both groups have invasive ancestry, in the case of the former coming from the west and in the latter coming from the east. The question is who has more and maybe formal stats can answer this question fully as Im not sure myself.

[Borealis]

Cheers, I just wiki'd them.

And which people, would you say, are the purest Indids?

^Perceive purity and Indidism, however you like.

You would need to define Indid first.

[Maguzanci]

Anyway, some Austroasiatics like Juang seem to be only 10% Caucasoid admixed if they are around 60% Nicobarese-related and 40% ASI (which is 75% AASI and 25% Caucasoid of Iran Farmer admix). And the rest of their ancestry would be split between AASI and Mongoloid/East Asian.

[NPKTO]

Cheers, I just wiki'd them.

And which people, would you say, are the purest Indids?

^Perceive purity and Indidism, however you like.
Rajasthanis.

[Borealis]

Anyway, some Austroasiatics like Juang seem to be only 10% Caucasoid admixed if they are around 60% Nicobarese-related and 40% ASI (which is 75% AASI and 25% Caucasoid of Iran Farmer admix). And the rest of their ancestry would be split between AASI and Mongoloid/East Asian.

Ill try to solve this using nmonte

NVM! I cant

[Dna8]

invasive ancestry

Nice phrase/notion.

In your perception, which South Asian ethnic group is least most, an output involving invasions?

[Borealis]

Nice phrase/notion.

In your perception, which South Asian ethnic group is least most, an output involving invasions?

least most?

[Maguzanci]

Both groups have invasive ancestry, in the case of the former coming from the west and in the latter coming from the east. The question is who has more and maybe formal stats can answer this question fully as Im not sure myself.

This is some modelling using qpAdm (i think) done by the user Sein from Eurogenes: I have a feeling though that some of the Iranian Neolithic they are scoring might actually absorb their AASI or maybe some other ancestry making them seem more Caucasoid than what they should be. Keep in mind this post is back from 2016, so things might changed now with better ancient DNA: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/11/big-deal-of-2016-territory-of-present.html (it is actually very down almost on the bottom; you have to keep scroll down).

Austroasiatic populations of India:

Savara

70.30% Jarawa
25.00% Iran_Neolithic
4.65% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.2765

Kharia

68.35% Jarawa
23.65% Iran_Neolithic
7.25% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.416

Ho

67.45% Jarawa
25.95% Iran_Neolithic
6.60% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.2252

Asur

65.10% Jarawa
34.35% Iran_Neolithic
0.55% AG3
Distance=3.5173

Gadaba

65.1% Jarawa
21.6% Iran_Neolithic
11.0% Vietnamese_South
2.3% Agta
Distance=2.8751

Santhal

65.20% Jarawa
33.35% Iran_Neolithic
1.45% AG3
Distance=3.4783

Bonda

64.30% Jarawa
19.65% Iran_Neolithic
16.05% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.1687

Juang

62.9% Jarawa
20.3% Iran_Neolithic
16.8% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.0833

Khasi (very different from other Austroasiatic populations in India, which isn't surprising)

47.95% Vietnamese_South
22.45% Jarawa
18.60% Iran_Neolithic
7.05% AG3
3.95% Mongola
Distance=0.8109

Now compared this with the South Indian populations:

South Indian populations:

Paniya

59.45% Jarawa
39.10% Iran_Neolithic
1.45% AG3
Distance=3.2838

Pulliyar

50.65% Jarawa
46.10% Iran_Neolithic
3.25% AG3
Distance=3.2331

Hakkipikki

55.2% Iran_Neolithic
38.7% Jarawa
6.1% AG3
Distance=3.1566

Chenchu

54.10% Iran_Neolithic
38.85% Jarawa
7.05% AG3
Distance=2.7841

Sakilli

56.35% Iran_Neolithic
37.80% Jarawa
5.85% AG3
Distance=3.3935

Kallar

60.10% Iran_Neolithic
33.65% Jarawa
6.25% AG3
Distance=3.1929

Kurumba

59.95% Iran_Neolithic
32.25% Jarawa
7.80% AG3
Distance=2.9282

Tamil Nadu Brahmin

58.0% Iran_Neolithic
25.6% Jarawa
16.4% AG3 + MA1
Distance=2.0355
December 3, 2016 at 9:50 PM

[Dna8]

least most?

to the smallest degree.

[Borealis]

This is some formal stats done by the user Sein from Eurogenes: I have a feeling though that some of the Iranian Neolithic they are scoring might actually absorb their AASI ancestry making them seem more Caucasoid than what they should be. Keep in mind this post is back from 2016, so things might changed now with better ancient DNA: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/11/big-deal-of-2016-territory-of-present.html (it is actually very down almost on the bottom; you have to keep scroll down).

Austroasiatic populations of India:

Savara

70.30% Jarawa
25.00% Iran_Neolithic
4.65% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.2765

Kharia

68.35% Jarawa
23.65% Iran_Neolithic
7.25% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.416

Ho

67.45% Jarawa
25.95% Iran_Neolithic
6.60% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.2252

Asur

65.10% Jarawa
34.35% Iran_Neolithic
0.55% AG3
Distance=3.5173

Gadaba

65.1% Jarawa
21.6% Iran_Neolithic
11.0% Vietnamese_South
2.3% Agta
Distance=2.8751

Santhal

65.20% Jarawa
33.35% Iran_Neolithic
1.45% AG3
Distance=3.4783

Bonda

64.30% Jarawa
19.65% Iran_Neolithic
16.05% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.1687

Juang

62.9% Jarawa
20.3% Iran_Neolithic
16.8% Vietnamese_South
Distance=3.0833

Khasi (very different from other Austroasiatic populations in India, which isn't surprising)

47.95% Vietnamese_South
22.45% Jarawa
18.60% Iran_Neolithic
7.05% AG3
3.95% Mongola
Distance=0.8109

Now compared this with the South Indian populations:

South Indian populations:

Paniya

59.45% Jarawa
39.10% Iran_Neolithic
1.45% AG3
Distance=3.2838

Pulliyar

50.65% Jarawa
46.10% Iran_Neolithic
3.25% AG3
Distance=3.2331

Hakkipikki

55.2% Iran_Neolithic
38.7% Jarawa
6.1% AG3
Distance=3.1566

Chenchu

54.10% Iran_Neolithic
38.85% Jarawa
7.05% AG3
Distance=2.7841

Sakilli

56.35% Iran_Neolithic
37.80% Jarawa
5.85% AG3
Distance=3.3935

Kallar

60.10% Iran_Neolithic
33.65% Jarawa
6.25% AG3
Distance=3.1929

Kurumba

59.95% Iran_Neolithic
32.25% Jarawa
7.80% AG3
Distance=2.9282

Tamil Nadu Brahmin

58.0% Iran_Neolithic
25.6% Jarawa
16.4% AG3 + MA1
Distance=2.0355
December 3, 2016 at 9:50 PM

They had that much Iranian neolithic? I had no idea. Anyway, I think it would be the other way around in that the Jarawa component(meant as a stand in for AASI) would be stealing some east Asian as Jarawa are heavily east shifted. They are an awful proxy when dealing with groups that have both AASI and SE Asian ancestry like AustroAsiatic tribes.

Edit: On second thought I believe those Iran_N scores exaggerated. I dont think I've ever seen any indications that those southern groups have so much of it.

[Maguzanci]

Anyway this is what the Austroasiatic speaking Bonda look like: (they are supposedly one of the least Caucasoid admixed populations in the subcontinent)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Inde_bondo_8593a.jpg/1200px-Inde_bondo_8593a.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwyBgJt2jCgvMhSJ6QKzrQHAmUXYlV4 ikk0N6Zj_glwN2JQMMM

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkHNk0Rov3djyFaERYWZeBGknKVGiGD F9Ag24XkR_IUu_z4U5v

[Maguzanci]

They had that much Iranian neolithic? I had no idea. Anyway, I think it would be the other way around in that the Jarawa component(meant as a stand in for AASI) would be stealing some east Asian as Jarawa are heavily east shifted. They are an awful proxy when dealing with groups that have both AASI and SE Asian ancestry like AustroAsiatic tribes.

Edit: On second thought I believe those Iran_N scores exaggerated. I dont think I've ever seen any indications that those southern groups have so much of it.

You could be right on that. True, Jarawa/Onge in general are not a good proxy for AASI ancestry from what I also read from the discussions online.

Yes, I also think the amount of Iran_N they are scoring is inflated especially for the tribals. I don't think they are that Caucasoid genetically. Southern groups you mean those pops from South India?

[Maguzanci]

They had that much Iranian neolithic? I had no idea. Anyway, I think it would be the other way around in that the Jarawa component(meant as a stand in for AASI) would be stealing some east Asian as Jarawa are heavily east shifted. They are an awful proxy when dealing with groups that have both AASI and SE Asian ancestry like AustroAsiatic tribes.

Edit: On second thought I believe those Iran_N scores exaggerated. I dont think I've ever seen any indications that those southern groups have so much of it.

Here is also Razib's opinion on the issue: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3433-Waves-of-migration-into-South-Asia&p=373875&viewfull=1#post373875

There’s another aspect of the preprint which allows for dating. The arrival of Austro-Asiatic people in South Asia probably has to postdate the expansion of the same group in Vietnam about 4,000 years ago (though not necessarily obviously). But the Munda Austro-Asiatic people of northeast India exhibit curious genetic patterns. They clearly have East Asian ancestry related to other Austro-Asiatic populations in Southeast Asia, but they have a lot less “West Eurasian” in their ANI/ASI mix. The authors resolve this by suggesting that the Munda arrived in South Asia when there was still heterogeneity among the ASI, and unadmixed AASI.

[Borealis]

You could be right on that. True, Jarawa/Onge in general are not a good proxy for AASI ancestry from what I also read from the discussions online.

Yes, I also think the amount of Iran_N they are scoring is inflated especially for the tribals. I don't think they are that Caucasoid genetically. Southern groups you mean those pops from South India?

Yes the Chenchus, Paniya, Hakkipikki are nowhere near that high Iran_N. For Tambrams it's exaggerated too. Anyway, my personal hunch at this point would be that the Paniya have more AASI than any other group in the world.

[NPKTO]

Yes the Chenchus, Paniya, Hakkipikki are nowhere near that high Iran_N. For Tambrams it's exaggerated too. Anyway, my personal hunch at this point would be that the Paniya have more AASI than any other group in the world.
Iran_N is capturing ANE that’s why it is inflating. I’m pretty damn sure. It looks like there was a separate wave to ANE that arrived in South Asia prior to Iran_N. Groups like Paniya score it, but Onge do not. Onge aren’t also pure ASI or AASI either. They’re much closer to SE Asians genetically, despite being very African like in appearance.

[Maguzanci]

Here are the pics of the Juang: the tribe that is used as a sample for the genetic modeling of the Austroasiatic speaking Munda tribals. They are also supposedly one of the least Caucasoid admixed groups in South Asia along with the Bonda and other Munda tribes

Their pics are a bit hard to find

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Juang.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/karmatraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/12797989_175797086140331_1596035476_n-1.jpg?fit=750%2C750

https://www.villagesquare.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Juang-01.jpg

[Borealis]

Iran_N is capturing ANE that’s why it is inflating. I’m pretty damn sure. It looks like there was a separate wave to ANE that arrived in South Asia. Groups like Paniya score it, but Onge do not. Onge aren’t also pure ASI or AASI either. They’re much closer to SE Asians genetically, despite being very African like in appearance.

Eh, it's a possibility but I doubt it. There's already a separate category for ANE(MA1 +AG3) so it'd just end up going there. Plus I doubt tribals have so much ANE that it inflates Iran_N to literally double the actual amount. How much ANE do Paniyas score on Gedmatch?

[Maguzanci]

Eh, it's a possibility but I doubt it. There's already a separate category for ANE(MA1 +AG3) so it'd just end up going there. Plus I doubt tribals have so much ANE that it inflates Iran_N to literally double the actual amount. How much ANE do Paniyas score on Gedmatch?

Off topic, but can ANE actually be consider Caucasoid or West Eurasian? Because I heard so many people on Anthrogenica and other forums who thinks it is a mostly archaic Upper Paleolithic West Eurasian component with some ASI/AASI related admixture like around 65-75% West Eurasian and the rest 25-35% ASI/AASI. If it is mostly archaic Caucasoid, that would also makes pure blood Amerindians around 20-25% or more West Eurasian admixed as well as they are around 30-40% ANE.

[Maguzanci]

Iran_N is capturing ANE that’s why it is inflating. I’m pretty damn sure. It looks like there was a separate wave to ANE that arrived in South Asia prior to Iran_N. Groups like Paniya score it, but Onge do not. Onge aren’t also pure ASI or AASI either. They’re much closer to SE Asians genetically, despite being very African like in appearance.

That could be why. Thanks for the explanataion.

Off topic, but can ANE actually be consider Caucasoid or West Eurasian? Because I heard so many people on Anthrogenica and other forums who thinks it is a mostly archaic Upper Paleolithic West Eurasian component with some ASI/AASI related admixture like around 65-75% West Eurasian and the rest 25-35% ASI/AASI. If it is mostly archaic Caucasoid, that would also makes pure blood Amerindians around 20-25% or more West Eurasian admixed as well as they are around 30-40% ANE.

[NPKTO]

Eh, it's a possibility but I doubt it. There's already a separate category for ANE(MA1 +AG3) so it'd just end up going there. Plus I doubt tribals have so much ANE that it inflates Iran_N to literally double the actual amount. How much ANE do Paniyas score on Gedmatch?
25%

[Borealis]

Off topic, but can ANE actually be consider Caucasoid or West Eurasian? Because I heard so many people on Anthrogenica and other forums who thinks it is a mostly archaic Upper Paleolithic West Eurasian component with some ASI/AASI related admixture like around 65-75% West Eurasian and the rest 25-35% ASI/AASI. If it is mostly archaic Caucasoid, that would also makes pure blood Amerindians around 20-25% or West Eurasian admixed as well as they are around 30-40% ANE.

Yes that's largely true from what I know. I've also previously been told that the east eurasian in ANE was AASI related rather than east Asian. I would be hesitant to call it west Eurasian . I think this far back in time, those kinds of terms should be used cautiously.

[Thambi]

25%

thats quite a bit. Its only 10% less than what many mid and high castes get.

[Maguzanci]

Yes that's largely true from what I know. I've also previously been told that the east eurasian in ANE was AASI related rather than east Asian. I would be hesitant to call it west Eurasian . I think this far back in time, those kinds of terms should be used cautiously.

That's interesting. At least, we can conclude that unlike Mongs, Native Americans ( i consider Amerindians sort of a separate race from Mongs after 15,000 years or more of separation) are genetically distant cousins to South Asians, Europeans and West Asians as they all shared ANE ancestries.

[NPKTO]

That could be why. Thanks for the explanataion.

Off topic, but can ANE actually be consider Caucasoid or West Eurasian? Because I heard so many people on Anthrogenica and other forums who thinks it is a mostly archaic Upper Paleolithic West Eurasian component with some ASI/AASI related admixture like around 65-75% West Eurasian and the rest 25-35% ASI/AASI. If it is mostly archaic Caucasoid, that would also makes pure blood Amerindians around 20-25% or West Eurasian admixed as well as they are around 30-40% ANE.
ANE has 25% input from Tianyuan, which can be considered very ancient East Asians. I guess I wouldn’t put Caucasoid/Mongoloid for ANE. But it’s a fact that it contributed around 50% to CHG and Iran_N. Folks from that region don’t look Mongoloid to me. I think Native Americans got separated around 15kya from other Eurasians. So it’s entirely possible for phenotype to change after they got that admixture. But yes it’s considered West Eurasian with little Eastern pull in genetics world.

[Borealis]

25%

Thanks. If it's that much then I can see the much of the ANE going into Iran_N, since strangely only 1%ish of it went to the Ma1/AG3 category. Paniya are IIRC 20-27% Iran_N in actuality. Also, I think that Jarawa also have some ANE, so maybe some went into that as well. Do you know about this?

[Borealis]

That's interesting. At least, we can conclude that unlike Mongs, Native Americans ( i consider Amerindians sort of a separate race from Mongs after 15,000 years or more of separation) are genetically distant cousins to South Asians, Europeans and West Asians as they all shared ANE ancestries.

I agree, Amerindians are not the same race as East Asian mongs.

[Maguzanci]

I agree, Amerindians are not the same race as East Asian mongs.

Not to mention that Native Americans are distantly genetically related to Europeans, South Asians and West Asians as they all shared the ANE ancestries unlike the vast majority of East Asian Mongs.

[NPKTO]

Thanks. If it's that much then I can see the much of the ANE going into Iran_N, since strangely only 1%ish of it went to the Ma1/AG3 category. Paniya are IIRC 20-27% Iran_N in actuality. Also, I think that Jarawa also have some ANE, so maybe some went into that as well. Do you know about this?
No but I’m pretty sure Jarawa and Onge do not score ANE. I think ANE that came without Iran_N got mixed with AASI folks in South Asia to create groups like Paniyas. The same wave of ANE went to West Asia and mixed with Basal Eurasians to create Iran_N and CHG.

[Ryuk]

Before the fall of Indus civilization, Iranian farmers have never been able to reach anywhere in the Indian subcontinent except west of the Thar Desert. So those who enter the Indian subcontinent from the East, like Juang, must be mixed with pure AASI communities.

[Thambi]

No but I’m pretty sure Jarawa and Onge do not score ANE. I think ANE that came without Iran_N got mixed with AASI folks in South Asia to create groups like Paniyas. The same wave of ANE went to West Asia and mixed with Basal Eurasians to create Iran_N and CHG.

no pretty much all iran n in paniyas definitely came from iranian farmers. Paniyas are basically original AASIs that mixed slightly with Iran_N. The central indian tribes like munda, bonda, juang, etc are austroasiatic people mixed with aasis, with some iran neolithic mixture coming in later after they migrated further south and east into the subcontinent

[Maguzanci]

no pretty much all iran n in paniyas definitely came from iranian farmers. Paniyas are basically original AASIs that mixed slightly with Iran_N. The central indian tribes like munda, bonda, juang, etc are austroasiatic people mixed with aasis, with some iran neolithic mixture coming in later after they migrated further south and east into the subcontinent

Based on some qpAdm testing and genetic models, I think it is safe to conclude that the Austroasiatic Munda speakers like , Gadaba, Bonda, Juang have the lowest Iran Neolithic admix in mainland South Asia. (Not counting Tibeto Burmans of NE.India and parts of Nepal who are not South Asian genetically) They are even a lot less West Eurasian than the Paniya.

[Thambi]

Based on some qpAdm testing and genetic models, I think it is safe to conclude that the Austroasiatic Munda speakers like , Gadaba, Bonda, Juang have the lowest Iran Neolithic admix in mainland South Asia. (Not counting Tibeto Burmans of NE.India and parts of Nepal who are not South Asian genetically) They are even a lot less West Eurasian than the Paniya.

yeah paniyas have highest AASI but decent iran neolithic as well. the central tribes are high in east asian and aasi as well, but not as much as paniyas on the aasi. They also have lower iran_n. And many tibeto burman groups are actually more northern shifted than even north chinese and many of the tribes over there have almost non existent south asian. Examples like nagas, sherpas, arunachalis, sikkimese.

[NPKTO]

no pretty much all iran n in paniyas definitely came from iranian farmers. Paniyas are basically original AASIs that mixed slightly with Iran_N. The central indian tribes like munda, bonda, juang, etc are austroasiatic people mixed with aasis. with some iran neolithic mixture coming in later after they migrated further south and east into the subcontinent
Yes I agree. But I also think there was separate ANE incursion into South Asia and that probably happened during Paleolithic time (before Iran_N). So I thought that might be the reason why they score so high ANE. But if they did get ANE from Iran_N, then they also must’ve got similar amount of basal ancestry from Iran_N, which would make them close to 50% Iran_N like.

[NPKTO]

Btw it looks like only Sardinian people are only non ANE shifted West Eurasians left in the world.

[Borealis]

Btw it looks like only Sardinian people are only non ANE shifted West Eurasians left in the world.

Even they have tiny steppe. But what about Berbers?

[Maguzanci]

Double

[Maguzanci]

yeah paniyas have highest AASI but decent iran neolithic as well. the central tribes are high in east asian and aasi as well, but not as much as paniyas on the aasi. They also have lower iran_n. And many tibeto burman groups are actually more northern shifted than even north chinese and many of the tribes over there have almost non existent south asian. Examples like nagas, sherpas, arunachalis, sikkimese.

It would be funny lol if pure blood Native Americans are more West Eurasian genetically (like around 20-25% or a bit more Caucasoid admix from their 30-40% ANE if ANE is indeed a mostly archaic West Eurasian component) than these Austroasiatic Central tribes

It is also remakarble than SE Asians like Burmese, Thai, Khmers are more South Asian genetically and have more minor amounts of West Eurasian ancestry; scoring little amounts of Baloch/Iran Neolithic admix despite being geographically further away from South Asia than these Tibeto Burmans who live next to the subcontinent.

For example, in Harappadna spreadsheet, the Burmese average score close to 20% South Indian and 3% Baloch/Iran Neolithic and Thai average score 18% South Indian and 2.4% Baloch/Iran Neolithic compared to the Tibetan and Sherpa averages who barely score any South Indian and like literally zero Baloch/Iran Neolithic component lol.

[NPKTO]

Even they have tiny steppe. But what about Berbers?
Nope, that tiny NE Euro is almost all WHG without ANE. If you score some Baloch along with NE Euro, that’s almost always steppe and it has ANE. However, if you score NE Euro without Baloch, it’s all WHG. Sardinians are very similar to Stuttgart Farmers genetically. No ANE. Only WHG and EEF. Berbers might’ve minor Sub Saharan admixture.

[Maguzanci]

ANE has 25% input from Tianyuan, which can be considered very ancient East Asians. I guess I wouldn’t put Caucasoid/Mongoloid for ANE. But it’s a fact that it contributed around 50% to CHG and Iran_N. Folks from that region don’t look Mongoloid to me. I think Native Americans got separated around 15kya from other Eurasians. So it’s entirely possible for phenotype to change after they got that admixture. But yes it’s considered West Eurasian with little Eastern pull in genetics world.

Why wouldn't you put Caucasoid/Mongoloid for ANE?
"Folks from that region don't look Mongoloid to me"- You mean folks from West Asia and Caucasus areas?

Yeah i think it is the very high ANE admix and long time separation/genetic isolatio that affect Native American phenotypes.

So i guess we can deduce that Native Americans have some sort of very ancient West Eurasian admix then?

[Borealis]

Nope, that tiny NE Euro is almost all WHG without ANE. If you score some Baloch along with NE Euro, that’s almost always steppe and it has ANE. However, if you score NE Euro without Baloch, it’s all WHG. Sardinians are very similar to Stuttgart Farmers genetically. No ANE. Only WHG and EEF. Berbers might’ve minor Sub Saharan admixture.

I’m not talking about Harappa components. I don’t take those too seriously anyway.

[Thambi]

It would be funny lol if pure blood Native Americans are more West Eurasian genetically (from their 30-40% ANE) than these Austroasiatic Central tribes

It is also remakarble than SE Asians like Burmese, Thai, Khmers are more South Asian genetically and have more minor amounts of West Eurasian ancestry; scoring little amounts of Baloch/Iran Neolithic admix despite being geographically further away from South Asia than these Tibeto Burmans who live next to the subcontinent.

For example, in Harappadna spreadsheet, the Burmese average score close to 20% South Indian and 3% Baloch/Iran Neolithic and Thai average score 18% South Indian and 2.4% Baloch/Iran Neolithic compared to the Tibetan and Sherpa averages who barely score any South Indian and like literally zero Baloch/Iran Neolithic component lol.

Just looked at bonda average on harappa. Its 67% south asian and 33% southeast asian. No baloch/caucasian/euro at all. The south asian component on harappa is roughly 45% caucasoid so they are 30% caucasoid. They might be as caucasoid as an average native american.

And good point. Sherpas and Tibetans have some south indian but they get no baloch or anything. so their south asian might be a source of AASI fokls prior to IVC migrations. I mean makes sense since they live by the mountains and tibetan plateau so they never really mingled with subcontinental people. It shocks me though still that northeast indians like nagas, sikkimese, eastern nepalis have no south asian as well. Infact nagas have less south asian than tibetans and sherpas. There are no natural barriers between mainaland india and northeast india and kirats, nagas, tribals in that region have constantly interacted with mainland indians throughout history, especially bengalis. Bengalis have east asian, but not vice versa.

In nepal mongoloids did mix extensively with caucasoids. But the mixed ones are neither among brahmins or tibeto burmans usually. They are just classed as chhetris, thakuris, and newars since mixing is allowed in these castes to an extent. Its wrong to say that tibetans and south asians never mixed. its just they are not part of the pure tibetan or pure brahmin castes anymore.

[NPKTO]

I’m not talking about Harappa components. I don’t take those too seriously anyway.
I’ve looked at basal k7 from Davidski & Sardinians don’t have any ANE. So no Steppe.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/htmlview