Modern hungarians are just assimilated germanic,slavic and celtic people?

[andre]

How the linguistic and cultural assimilation took place before the advent of education, registers, etc.
for example:
How is it possible that a Magyar minority has assimilated a large number of natives in the Pannonian basin already in the Middle Ages? (counting that at that time they were illiterate peasants and in churches they preached in Latin)
What are the most accredited hypotheses?

[Pribislav]

I think Catholic church played huge role in magyarization of Pannonian Slavs.

Magyars were probably similar in number as Bulgars.
Bulgar Turkic language disappeared in Bulgaria 9th century and Bulgar minority was absorbed by Slavic and Vlach majority. How Magyars imposed their language to Slavs and others inhabitants of Pannonia who were more numerous than them is interesting question.

[Adam Janossy]

I think Catholic church played huge role in magyarization of Pannonian Slavs.

Magyars were probably similar in number as Bulgars.
Bulgar Turkic language disappeared in Bulgaria 9th century and Bulgar minority was absorbed by Slavic and Vlach majority. How Magyars imposed their language to Slavs and others inhabitants of Pannonia who were more numerous than them is interesting question.

Do not spread stupidity please. Catholic church used Latin language, it did not spread Hungarian language. You confused your national orthodox churches who spread your language and identity, with the western Christianity.

[Adam Janossy]

How the linguistic and cultural assimilation took place before the advent of education, registers, etc.
for example:
How is it possible that a Magyar minority has assimilated a large number of natives in the Pannonian basin already in the Middle Ages? (counting that at that time they were illiterate peasants and in churches they preached in Latin)
What are the most accredited hypotheses?

Number of Hungarian conquerors was very big, and they were dominant ethnic group in Carpathian Basin until the Mongol and Ottoman massacres. But they were genetically mixed, as DNA research shows. Next question ?

[Blondie]

The short answer is: Yes

genetic shows it perfectly

[oszkar07]

Number of Hungarian conquerors was very big, and they were dominant ethnic group in Carpathian Basin until the Mongol and Ottoman massacres. But they were genetically mixed, as DNA research shows. Next question ?

Another possibility is that Conquerors were not Magyar speakers and that Hungarian was already spoken in the Carpathian Basin.

Im not certain there is credible evidence to show that conquerors outnumbered the population of Carpathian Basin.

[Adam Janossy]

The short answer is: Yes

genetic shows it perfectly

You are Danube Swabian. Unlike you, most of my ancestors were ethnic Hungarians with Hungarian names until the middle ages.

[Ayetooey]

As shown by the dna results posted before, the Magyars who settled in the 800's had high levels of European admixture, and most of them had European Y dna's and European phenotypes; the leaders tested were all I2a1b. So they weren't pure Asiatics like previous invaders. They had clearly assimilated people prior to their settlement of modern Hungary.

[Blondie]

Number of Hungarian conquerors was very big, and they were dominant ethnic group in Carpathian Basin until the Mongol and Ottoman massacres. But they were genetically mixed, as DNA research shows. Next question ?

Number of conquerors were not big, only 30000-50000 people, Dr. Tibor Török, from the Hungarian Academy of Sciences (MTA:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDDoP6Ml-M

1. Conquerors had significant asian genetic (15-20%), if the were more numerous than locals than modern hungarians would be more "asian", but only 0,5% is the asian genom among hungarians today.

2. The hungarian conqueror graves are very limited and rare, it proves this population was not much. If the conquerors were between half and 1 million than the graves would be more numerous.

This small elite assimilated the locals because: 1. military dominance, 2. cultural dominance (statehood of St. Stephen).

[Adam Janossy]

Another possibility is that Conquerors were not Magyar speakers and that Hungarian was already spoken in the Carpathian Basin.

Im not certain there is credible evidence to show that conquerors outnumbered the population of Carpathian Basin.

I've change my opinion, and I think that the early Ugric core of the Magyars was already diluted when they left the forests of north east Europe. They mixed with different people in the steppe, but the language survived.
Perhabs, because it was always much superior language to the primitive indoeuropean languages :)))

[Tigranes]

Typical Nomad Problems

[Adam Janossy]

Number of conquerors were not big, only 30000-50000 people, Dr. Tibor Török, from the Hungarian Academy of Sciences (MTA:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDDoP6Ml-M

1. Conquerors had significant asian genetic (15-20%), if the were more numerous than locals than modern hungarians would be more "asian", but only 0,5% is the asian genom among hungarians today.

2. The hungarian conqueror graves are very limited and rare, it proves this population was not much. If the conquerors were between half and 1 million than the graves would be more numerous.

This small elite assimilated the locals because: 1. military dominance, 2. cultural dominance (statehood of St. Stephen).

Wrong. It is huge number for the medieval standards. And second, conquerors blood was diluted trough the many wars in the region, since conquerors became Knights who perish in big numbers during fighting.
After Mongol and Ottoman destruction, many Slavic and German peasants were settled to Hungary. Vlach sheperds arrive in that time too.

[Adam Janossy]

Early Hungarian Kings invited many German French Hollander North Italian craftsmen to live in free royal towns too.

[Blondie]

Wrong. It is huge number for the medieval standards. And second, conquerors blood was diluted trough the many wars in the region, since conquerors became Knights who perish in big numbers during fighting.
After Mongol and Ottoman destruction, many Slavic and German peasants were settled to Hungary. Vlach sheperds arrive in that time too.

But it does not explain the very limited conqueror graves and the 0,5% asian genetic which is nothing. I think the hungarian nation is similar to french, there was a dominant elite/ruler class (magyars in Hungary and romans in France) and they assimilated the locals (slavo-germans in Hungary and celto-germans in France) with military and cultural methods. This is my opinion, of course i can be wrong this age is very vague and there are lot of speculation.

[Videx]

Basically yes.

[Blondie]

Another version is the conquerors were already mostly slavo-germanic (eastern slavs, goths, vikings), the genetic sources confirmed it. 40% of them had germanic mtdna and minor slavic:

http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Y markers, there is 29 haplogroup from conquerors and 18 is slavic & germanic, 5 is finno-ugric:

https://i.imgur.com/5GxPXJA.png

Interesting but genetically avars were mostly finno-ugric (N haplo):

https://i.imgur.com/7ekYhRm.png

So:

1. very possible that local slavo-avars were hungarian speakers and they assimilated the conquerors who spoked maybe turkic, germanic, or slavic language.

2. the conquerors were magyars speakers and their number was between half and 1 million but genetically they were mostly slavo-germanic (just like the locals in CB) that's why we can't see the genetic difference between conquerors and locals because they had same or similar haplogroups.

3. my earlier version and conquerors were not numerous

[Lehel]

Another version is the conquerors were already mostly slavo-germanic (eastern slavs, goths, vikings), the genetic sources confirmed it. 40% of them had germanic mtdna and minor slavic:

http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Y markers, there is 29 haplogroup from conquerors and 18 is slavic & germanic, 5 is finno-ugric:

https://i.imgur.com/5GxPXJA.png

Interesting but genetically avars were mostly finno-ugric (N haplo):

https://i.imgur.com/7ekYhRm.png

So:

1. very possible that local slavo-avars were hungarian speakers and they assimilated the conquerors who spoked maybe turkic, germanic, or slavic language.

2. the conquerors were magyars speakers and their number was between half and 1 million but genetically they were mostly slavo-germanic (just like the locals in CB) that's why we can't see the genetic difference between conquerors and locals because they had same or similar haplogroups.

3. my earlier version and conquerors were not numerous

It's the second.
The question is why and how? We will probably never know though.

[oszkar07]

Another version is the conquerors were already mostly slavo-germanic (eastern slavs, goths, vikings), the genetic sources confirmed it. 40% of them had germanic mtdna and minor slavic:

http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Y markers, there is 29 haplogroup from conquerors and 18 is slavic & germanic, 5 is finno-ugric:

https://i.imgur.com/5GxPXJA.png

Interesting but genetically avars were mostly finno-ugric (N haplo):

https://i.imgur.com/7ekYhRm.png

So:

1. very possible that local slavo-avars were hungarian speakers and they assimilated the conquerors who spoked maybe turkic, germanic, or slavic language.

2. the conquerors were magyars speakers and their number was between half and 1 million but genetically they were mostly slavo-germanic (just like the locals in CB) that's why we can't see the genetic difference between conquerors and locals because they had same or similar haplogroups.

3. my earlier version and conquerors were not numerous


All interesting points , the mystery of the Honfoglalas continues.

I feel your first 2 points can be real possibilities.
The Conquerors dont appear numerous due to DNA difference but your point 2 could be an alternative explanation.

[oszkar07]

Early Hungarian Kings invited many German French Hollander North Italian craftsmen to live in free royal towns too.

True, my Ydna haplogroup could have come from such invitations.