Do I have Finnish/Karelian ancestry?

[Gwydion]

So a big mystery for me ever since I had my parent's DNA done was discovering an Eastern European element in my mother's DNA since we believed she was entirely German and Irish. To illustrate here are some examples:

Eurognes K36 components- East Central Euro 6.52, East Euro 6.63, Fennoscandian 8.60, Volga-Ural 4.04

Lukasz K47 components- 1.08% South-Caucasian, 3.46% North Caucasian, 6.84% East Euro, 4.37% Volgan, 7.81% West-Finnic, 0.53% Uralic, 5.87% Baltic, 1.63% Pamirian

DNALand- Northeast European 11%

Eurogenes K15 Oracle mixed mode top results-

1 88% Southeast_English + 12% Chuvash @ 5.09
2 89.5% Southeast_English + 10.5% Mari @ 5.13
3 87.2% West_Scottish + 12.8% Chuvash @ 5.37

So obviously there is something there. Our best guess is our Prussian ancestor, b. 1826, who immigrated to the Untied States by the 1860s, has ancestry from Germans in the East, likely Russia since my mother has a multitude of matches with individuals of Volga German and Black Sea German ancestry, as well as a Bashkir dude out in Bashkortostan.

What was interesting though is that my mother has multiple matches with 100% ethnic Finns, usually at a range of 8 cM to 12 cM. So I decided to map out their locations and to my surprise the highest matches (8 different matches) all clustered in one area, namely Karelia, with some locations being present in multiple matches (Nurmes x3, Iisalmi x2, Rantasalmi x2.) Here's the map in question, each color representing a different matches locations:

https://b1.freeimage.host/Shy22.png

So what do you think, does it look like my mother likely has previously unknown Finnish ancestry? And if so, how to best explain this? My guess was perhaps Germans in Saint Petersburg before or after settling elsewhere in Russia due to the proximity to the area? Perhaps Swedes or Finns who also settled the Volga or Black Sea region?

[nittionia]

Did you do ancestrydna or 23andme? I have Finnish ancestry from the 1800s and it shows up in the results, also eastern european. Maybe/if you have distant Finnish ancestry, it could be too far to show up in those results. What do you get in the gedmatch k13 and k15 4-way oracles? When you are mixed with multiple ethnicities, you can get extreme 2-way results even if you are not those ethnicities they show.

[Gwydion]

Did you do ancestrydna or 23andme? I have Finnish ancestry from the 1800s and it shows up in the results, also eastern european. Maybe/if you have distant Finnish ancestry, it could be too far to show up in those results. What do you get in the gedmatch k13 and k15 4-way oracles? When you are mixed with multiple ethnicities, you can get extreme 2-way results even if you are not those ethnicities they show.

I did AncestryDNA. Before they did the update she had Finland/Northwest Russia 3% and Eastern European 2% I believe, so yeah it is minor. For the 4-way oracles, K13 gives her:

1 East_German + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.524935

While K15 gives her:

1 East_Finnish + French_Basque + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 6.255225

With Lukasz K36 report one of the oracles gives her:

1 Wales+RU_Volgograd 4,840047
1 50% Wales +25% Hessen +25% RU_Volgograd 4,69644

So it certainly is a minor part of her ancestry and likely dates from the later 18th century or possibly early 19th. The presence of the Eastern-like DNA is more a confirmation that there is likely something to these matches she has with individuals of Finnish and Russian/Ukrainian descent. Particularly I was struck by how all the top Finnish matches clustered in the same area and in locales with fairly small populations.

[nittionia]

I did AncestryDNA. Before they did the update she had Finland/Northwest Russia 3% and Eastern European 2% I believe, so yeah it is minor. For the 4-way oracles, K13 gives her:

1 East_German + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.524935

While K15 gives her:

1 East_Finnish + French_Basque + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 6.255225

With Lukasz K36 report one of the oracles gives her:

1 Wales+RU_Volgograd 4,840047
1 50% Wales +25% Hessen +25% RU_Volgograd 4,69644

So it certainly is a minor part of her ancestry and likely dates from the later 18th century or possibly early 19th. The presence of the Eastern-like DNA is more a confirmation that there is likely something to these matches she has with individuals of Finnish and Russian/Ukrainian descent. Particularly I was struck by how all the top Finnish matches clustered in the same area and in locales with fairly small populations.

Ok, yeah I bet she does have Finnish ancestry down the line. Mine comes from my Swedish ancestors so it is somewhat easier to trace, and I also have ancestors from the Prussian areas like you so that could also be the cause of our eastern euro. The helpful thing with 23andme is they give you an ancestry timeline, and I believe it was accurate in telling the time period of my Finnish ancestry for the most part.

[Gwydion]

Ok, yeah I bet she does have Finnish ancestry down the line. Mine comes from my Swedish ancestors so it is somewhat easier to trace, and I also have ancestors from the Prussian areas like you so that could also be the cause of our eastern euro. The helpful thing with 23andme is they give you an ancestry timeline, and I believe it was accurate in telling the time period of my Finnish ancestry for the most part.

My mother also has matches with 100% ethnic Swedes, so perhaps one of my Prussian ancestors married a Finnish-Swede or a Swede with Finnish ancestry? Though if that were the case it seems like it would be less likely to be from far eastern Finland/Karelia as most of my Finnish matches point to.

Either way certainly a mystery I wish I could solve. Unfortunately paper-trail genealogy has so far produced nothing for this Prussian ancestor.

[nittionia]

Some Finns who came to Sweden were from eastern Finland, but it can be so tricky to trace these kinds of things. My 2x great grandfather immigrated from the Prussian area but I can't even figure out his authentic name (which is also my surname lol). So good luck to you :D