South Slavic & neighbours Eurogenes results

[vbnetkhio]

I have one result of myFTDNA Y- 12markers to one of my 8 great-grandparents. Haplogroup J-M172 with mostly Serbs and Croats

their matches are Serbs and Croats?

[vbnetkhio]

some zoom ins

https://i.imgur.com/epEdRp4.png

https://i.imgur.com/4uBWUow.png

[PAGANE]

their matches are Serbs and Croats?

yes, mostly. Besides, some of them are J-M205

[Dušan]

You could add these two Serbs:

1. Serb from Dalmatia
Atlantic 19.04
Baltic 18.7
North_Sea 17.96
Eastern_Euro 12.11
East_Med 10.61
West_Med 10.37
West_Asian 7.21
Red_Sea 3.52
Siberian 0.43

2. Serb from Lika
Baltic 20.31
North_Sea 18.74
Atlantic 16.43
West_Med 13
East_Med 10.01
Eastern_Euro 9.03
West_Asian 8.35
Red_Sea 2.99
Oceanian 0.58
Southeast_Asian 0.45
Siberian 0.11

[vbnetkhio]

yes, mostly. Besides, some of them are J-M205

than your grandparent is probably J-M205 (j2b1) too. that's a rare haplogroup

[vbnetkhio]

You could add these two Serbs:

1. Serb from Dalmatia
Atlantic 19.04
Baltic 18.7
North_Sea 17.96
Eastern_Euro 12.11
East_Med 10.61
West_Med 10.37
West_Asian 7.21
Red_Sea 3.52
Siberian 0.43

2. Serb from Lika
Baltic 20.31
North_Sea 18.74
Atlantic 16.43
West_Med 13
East_Med 10.01
Eastern_Euro 9.03
West_Asian 8.35
Red_Sea 2.99
Oceanian 0.58
Southeast_Asian 0.45
Siberian 0.11

https://i.imgur.com/gX1iPX9.png

[PAGANE]

than your grandparent is probably J-M205 (j2b1) too. that's a rare haplogroup

Yes, I'm planning test snip panel for J-M205

[bained]

More Bulgarians from Thrace region, Plovdiv province:
1.
North_Sea 10.92 Pct
Atlantic 15.11 Pct
Baltic 17.03 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.64 Pct
West_Med 17.34 Pct
West_Asian 9.88 Pct
East_Med 17.24 Pct
Red_Sea 0.28 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.33 Pct
Amerindian 0.57 Pct
Oceanian 0.67 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

2.
North_Sea 19.27 Pct
Atlantic 12.91 Pct
Baltic 12.49 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.46 Pct
West_Med 13.25 Pct
West_Asian 7.77 Pct
East_Med 17.13 Pct
Red_Sea 4.08 Pct
South_Asian 0.24 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.02 Pct
Amerindian 1.37 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

3.
North_Sea 13.15 Pct
Atlantic 16.23 Pct
Baltic 15.12 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.09 Pct
West_Med 13.59 Pct
West_Asian 12.88 Pct
East_Med 15.55 Pct
Red_Sea 3.60 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.15 Pct
Amerindian 0.40 Pct
Oceanian 0.19 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

4.
North_Sea 24.83 Pct
Atlantic 11.95 Pct
Baltic 13.13 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.15 Pct
West_Med 14.48 Pct
West_Asian 8.93 Pct
East_Med 15.24 Pct
Red_Sea 1.50 Pct
South_Asian 0.20 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.19 Pct
Oceanian 0.40 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

5. Rhodope region

North_Sea 15.73 Pct
Atlantic 13.92 Pct
Baltic 13.06 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.01 Pct
West_Med 13.07 Pct
West_Asian14.93 Pct
East_Med 13.64 Pct
Red_Sea 3.37 Pct
South_Asian 1.49 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.59 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.36 Pct
Oceanian 0.66 Pct
Northeast_African 0.17 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.01 Pct

[vbnetkhio]

greek regions

https://i.imgur.com/dBTygGH.png

https://i.imgur.com/0uHQpwD.png

[vbnetkhio]

More Bulgarians from Thrace region, Plovdiv province:
1.
North_Sea 10.92 Pct
Atlantic 15.11 Pct
Baltic 17.03 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.64 Pct
West_Med 17.34 Pct
West_Asian 9.88 Pct
East_Med 17.24 Pct
Red_Sea 0.28 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.33 Pct
Amerindian 0.57 Pct
Oceanian 0.67 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

2.
North_Sea 19.27 Pct
Atlantic 12.91 Pct
Baltic 12.49 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.46 Pct
West_Med 13.25 Pct
West_Asian 7.77 Pct
East_Med 17.13 Pct
Red_Sea 4.08 Pct
South_Asian 0.24 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.02 Pct
Amerindian 1.37 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

3.
North_Sea 13.15 Pct
Atlantic 16.23 Pct
Baltic 15.12 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.09 Pct
West_Med 13.59 Pct
West_Asian 12.88 Pct
East_Med 15.55 Pct
Red_Sea 3.60 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.15 Pct
Amerindian 0.40 Pct
Oceanian 0.19 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

4.
North_Sea 24.83 Pct
Atlantic 11.95 Pct
Baltic 13.13 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.15 Pct
West_Med 14.48 Pct
West_Asian 8.93 Pct
East_Med 15.24 Pct
Red_Sea 1.50 Pct
South_Asian 0.20 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.19 Pct
Oceanian 0.40 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

5. Rhodope region

North_Sea 15.73 Pct
Atlantic 13.92 Pct
Baltic 13.06 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.01 Pct
West_Med 13.07 Pct
West_Asian14.93 Pct
East_Med 13.64 Pct
Red_Sea 3.37 Pct
South_Asian 1.49 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.59 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.36 Pct
Oceanian 0.66 Pct
Northeast_African 0.17 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.01 Pct

https://i.imgur.com/WFdxKfP.png
https://i.imgur.com/eJey9Fq.png

[bained]

Amazing! I will throw in one greek from Patras for the good work:

North_Sea 9.59 Pct
Atlantic 15.91 Pct
Baltic 8.62 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.37 Pct
West_Med 17.64 Pct
West_Asian 10.12 Pct
East_Med 25.92 Pct
Red_Sea 3.79 Pct
South_Asian 0.54 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.21 Pct
Northeast_African 0.30 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Btw, all the male samples are V-13, including the greek if someone cares.

[Mingle]

Bulgarians with Thracian and occasionally Greek ancestry are overrepresented thus pulling the Bulgarian average a bit south of the Romanian

How common are Bulgarians with Thracian and Greek ancestry in Bulgaria (specifically eastern Bulgaria)?

[Mingle]

FTDNA is good for Southeast Europe too and they still use 77k SNPs as opposed to 23andme's 58k.

How many SNPs do AncestryDNA use?

[ph2ter]

Can you add these (coma separated values):


removed

[vbnetkhio]

Amazing! I will throw in one greek from Patras for the good work:

North_Sea 9.59 Pct
Atlantic 15.91 Pct
Baltic 8.62 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.37 Pct
West_Med 17.64 Pct
West_Asian 10.12 Pct
East_Med 25.92 Pct
Red_Sea 3.79 Pct
South_Asian 0.54 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.21 Pct
Northeast_African 0.30 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Btw, all the male samples are V-13, including the greek if someone cares.

he clusters with thessaly9 and pelop8

[Mingle]

IncelSlayer plots with Hungarian average. But as we said many times he is odd case.

I think we need more results from Romania's Moldova region (especially the northern parts) to confirm this. He has no Hungarian ancestry so there has to be some explanation for that. My guess is he probably isn't odd for his region, we just need results from his region first.


I also noticed Bosniaks have high Baltic and low North Atlantic. Croats have both pretty even like me, lot higher NA and bit lower Baltic in comparison with them.

I'm guessing that means Bosniaks have more Slavic ancestry?

[Jana]

I think we need more results from Romania's Moldova region (especially the northern parts) to confirm this. He has no Hungarian ancestry so there has to be some explanation for that. My guess is he probably isn't odd for his region, we just need results from his region first.



I'm guessing that means Bosniaks have more Slavic ancestry?

I don't think he is typical. Romanian user from Anthrogenica has many samples from Romanian Moldova and none plots like him.

Yes, Bosniaks are most Slavic south Slavs. But they plot south of Croats because they have more Balkan ancestry overall. Croats have higher total North European (Slovenians have highest)

[Dušan]

https://i.imgur.com/gX1iPX9.png

More Serbs. I dont know their geographic origin:


1 Baltic 18.75
2 North_Sea 17.04
3 East_Med 14.46
4 Atlantic 14.36
5 Eastern_Euro 12.64
6 West_Med 12.21
7 West_Asian 8.25
8 South_Asian 1.64
9 Red_Sea 0.31
10 Siberian 0.31
11 Sub-Saharan 0.04

******

North_Sea 13.09
Atlantic 21.19
Baltic 22.17
Eastern_Euro 13.41
West_Med 10.72
West_Asian 8.98
East_Med 8.28
Red_Sea 1.83
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.16
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.16

*****

North_Sea 16.14%
Atlantic 20.67%
Baltic 16.70%
Eastern_Euro 12.71%
West_Med 11.23%
West_Asian 8.66%
East_Med 7.96%
Red_Sea 4.03%
Southeast_Asian 0.74%
Amerindian 0.62%
Oceanian 0.26%
Northeast_African 0.30%

*******

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 19.69
2 North_Sea 17.72
3 Atlantic 13.82
4 West_Med 12.39
5 Eastern_Euro 11.65
6 East_Med 11.21
7 West_Asian 9.46
8 Red_Sea 1.29
9 Oceanian 1.28
10 Southeast_Asian 0.7
11 South_Asian 0.32
12 Amerindian 0.25
13 Sub-Saharan 0.23

******

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 20.34
2 Atlantic 15.55
3 Baltic 15.22
4 East_Med 13.65
5 West_Med 12.72
6 Eastern_Euro 12.16
7 West_Asian 8.73
8 Red_Sea 1.58
9 Oceanian 0.04

******

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 18.58
2 Atlantic 18.09
3 Eastern_Euro 16.16
4 North_Sea 15.94
5 East_Med 13.1
6 West_Med 10.7
7 West_Asian 4.26
8 Red_Sea 3.17

******

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 17.84
2 West_Med 16.91
3 Baltic 16.01
4 Atlantic 15.32
5 West_Asian 11.39
6 East_Med 9.77
7 Eastern_Euro 9.37
8 Red_Sea 2.85
9 Oceanian 0.34
10 Amerindian 0.21



Maybe some of these results are already on map-diagram.

[Moje ime]

https://i.imgur.com/gX1iPX9.png

There are Serbs from Bosnia Dalmatia who are southern and south eastern Serbs who are northern shifted on this map.

[Dušan]

There are Serbs from Bosnia Dalmatia who are southern and south eastern Serbs who are northern shifted on this map.

Why not? There are not some drastic difference between regions because of centuries of migrations.

[Moje ime]

Why not? There are not some drastic difference between regions because of centuries of migrations.

There seems to be prejudice that southeastern Serbs are generally southern shifted and Serbs with Bosnian origin are northern shifted. It seems we need more samples to confirm or deny this finally.

[Dušan]

There seems to be prejudice that southeastern Serbs are generally southern shifted and Serbs with Bosnian origin are northern shifted. It seems we need more samples to confirm or deny this finally.

Jovan Cvijić, our well-known geographer, whose science temathic was migrations and origins od population:

"Kao rezultat tih ispitivanja izlazi da je, počevši od kraja XIV veka pa kroz tursko vreme do naših dana, ispremeštano skoro sve stanovništvo na prostoru od Veleške Klisure na Vardaru pa do Zagrebačke Gore. A glavnu masu tih što se kreću i naseljavaju čini dinarsko stanovništvo, čiji su glavni deo stari Rašani, narod srpske srednjevekovne države. Struje koje premeštaju stanovništvo sticale su se više od četiri veka u Srbiju; skoro toliko isto vremena u Dalmaciju; prelazile su Dunav, Savu, Unu, Kupu, čak i Dravu i naseljavale su Banat, Bačku, Baranju, Srem i Slavoniju, Hrvatsku, Štajersku, Kranjsku; prešle su na mnoga ostrva ili otoke Jadranskoga Mora, u Istru, u okolinu Trsta, čak neke slabe struje u Goricu. Prelazile su u Italiju, poglavito u mletačku oblast i u Abruce; zatim u Erdelj i južnu Rusiju.

Usled tih seoba je znatno izmenjen raspored naroda na Balkanskom Poluostrvu. U mnogim oblastima je jedno stanovništvo smenjeno drugim, drukčijih osobina, negde drugog jezika, a često drukčijeg dijalekta. Nastala su ukrštanja stanovništva, koje se usled migracija izmešalo, i izvršili su se raznovrsni etnički i etno-biološki procesi, koji su u mnogome izmenili etnički tip pojedinih oblasti: često je nestalo starog pokrajinskog ili istorijskog srednjevekovnog narodnog tipa i obrazovao se nov etnički amalgam."

[vbnetkhio]

There seems to be prejudice that southeastern Serbs are generally southern shifted and Serbs with Bosnian origin are northern shifted. It seems we need more samples to confirm or deny this finally.

i still wonder who are those Serbs from *****'s map. these east Serbs i plotted are nothing like them

[Jackson78]

That is result of member Jelic from Poreklo.

It is my result, my first nickname was Jelic. And i'm not R1a-YP4278, that is my maternal grandfather's Y-DNA.

[ph2ter]

From this PCA plot it can be seen what was like the pre-Slavic population in different Balkan areas before Slavic migration in the 6th century:

https://i.imgur.com/eTK97lF.png

[Moje ime]

i still wonder who are those Serbs from *****'s map. these east Serbs i plotted are nothing like them

Where is result of those east Serbs you plotted?

[vbnetkhio]

Where is result of those east Serbs you plotted?

ok, they are more mixed, east, central,southeast
i checked the coordinates again they are correct

T331132
Bela palanka+sumadija
North_Sea 15.55 Pct
Atlantic 18.94 Pct
Baltic 20.28 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.93 Pct
West_Med 10.08 Pct
West_Asian 8.22 Pct
East_Med 10.32 Pct
Red_Sea 0.50 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.67 Pct
Amerindian 0.28 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.21 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Bela palanka

1 North_Sea 22.24
3 Atlantic 12.74
2 Baltic 22.14
4 Eastern_Euro 11.38
6 West_Med 11.07
7 West_Asian 9.34
5 East_Med 11.08

Zajecar and Leskovac


2 North_Sea 18.87
3 Atlantic 15.08
1 Baltic 21.8
5 Eastern_Euro 10.79
4 West_Med 11.61
7 West_Asian 9.84
6 East_Med 10.7
8 Red_Sea 1.31

[Moje ime]

ok, they are more mixed, east, central,southeast
i checked the coordinates again they are correct

T331132
Bela palanka+sumadija
North_Sea 15.55 Pct
Atlantic 18.94 Pct
Baltic 20.28 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.93 Pct
West_Med 10.08 Pct
West_Asian 8.22 Pct
East_Med 10.32 Pct
Red_Sea 0.50 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.67 Pct
Amerindian 0.28 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.21 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Bela palanka

1 North_Sea 22.24
3 Atlantic 12.74
2 Baltic 22.14
4 Eastern_Euro 11.38
6 West_Med 11.07
7 West_Asian 9.34
5 East_Med 11.08

Zajecar and Leskovac


2 North_Sea 18.87
3 Atlantic 15.08
1 Baltic 21.8
5 Eastern_Euro 10.79
4 West_Med 11.61
7 West_Asian 9.84
6 East_Med 10.7
8 Red_Sea 1.31

Still not much south shifted as far as I can see. Are they on map?

[vbnetkhio]

Still not much south shifted as far as I can see. Are they on map?

yes.
not south shifted at all. the first guy gets Croatia on the first place in k15 oracle

[Moje ime]

Since I have it, I wonder from where comes small African admixture in some of Serbian results?

I've seen that in one Montenegrin result too, not in many Serbian results actually.
I didn't notice that as frequent in Albanian results as well (maybe I'm wrong).

Somehow I have impression it is related with Montenegro.

[vbnetkhio]

Since I have it, I wonder from where comes small African admixture in some of Serbian results?

I've seen that in one Montenegrin result too, not in many Serbian results actually.
I didn't notice that as frequent in Albanian results as well (maybe I'm wrong).

Somehow I have impression it is related with Montenegro.

is it Northeast African? i noticed almost all Germans and Austrians have a little bit of that.

[Moje ime]

is it Northeast African? i noticed almost all Germans and Austrians have a little bit of that.

Yes, at least on K15 and K13 calculators.
Strange.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?299002-South-Slavic-amp-neighbours-Eurogenes-results&p=6202191&viewfull=1#post6202191

[Dick]

Since I have it, I wonder from where comes small African admixture in some of Serbian results?

I've seen that in one Montenegrin result too, not in many Serbian results actually.
I didn't notice that as frequent in Albanian results as well (maybe I'm wrong).

Somehow I have impression it is related with Montenegro.

Now I know why we are good at basketball and Albanians suck

[vbnetkhio]

central European and Serbian update. Austrians are the biggest surprise, didn't expect them to plot there
Blue triangles are Slovaks.

https://i.imgur.com/XUAqXZZ.png


https://i.imgur.com/Bi3cTbC.png

[vbnetkhio]

Yes, at least on K15 and K13 calculators.
Strange.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?299002-South-Slavic-amp-neighbours-Eurogenes-results&p=6202191&viewfull=1#post6202191

it could be something that was specific for neolithic farmers in Germany

[Lucas]

From this PCA plot it can be seen what was like the pre-Slavic population in different Balkan areas before Slavic migration in the 6th century:

https://i.imgur.com/eTK97lF.png

This is K15?

[ph2ter]

This is K15?

Yes, it is.

[CommonSense]

ok, they are more mixed, east, central,southeast
i checked the coordinates again they are correct

T331132
Bela palanka+sumadija
North_Sea 15.55 Pct
Atlantic 18.94 Pct
Baltic 20.28 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.93 Pct
West_Med 10.08 Pct
West_Asian 8.22 Pct
East_Med 10.32 Pct
Red_Sea 0.50 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.67 Pct
Amerindian 0.28 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.21 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Bela palanka

1 North_Sea 22.24
3 Atlantic 12.74
2 Baltic 22.14
4 Eastern_Euro 11.38
6 West_Med 11.07
7 West_Asian 9.34
5 East_Med 11.08

Zajecar and Leskovac


2 North_Sea 18.87
3 Atlantic 15.08
1 Baltic 21.8
5 Eastern_Euro 10.79
4 West_Med 11.61
7 West_Asian 9.84
6 East_Med 10.7
8 Red_Sea 1.31

The second guy is from Šumadija, not from Bela Palanka.

[Pribislav]

ok, they are more mixed, east, central,southeast
i checked the coordinates again they are correct

T331132
Bela palanka+sumadija
North_Sea 15.55 Pct
Atlantic 18.94 Pct
Baltic 20.28 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.93 Pct
West_Med 10.08 Pct
West_Asian 8.22 Pct
East_Med 10.32 Pct
Red_Sea 0.50 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.67 Pct
Amerindian 0.28 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.21 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Bela palanka

1 North_Sea 22.24
3 Atlantic 12.74
2 Baltic 22.14
4 Eastern_Euro 11.38
6 West_Med 11.07
7 West_Asian 9.34
5 East_Med 11.08

Zajecar and Leskovac


2 North_Sea 18.87
3 Atlantic 15.08
1 Baltic 21.8
5 Eastern_Euro 10.79
4 West_Med 11.61
7 West_Asian 9.84
6 East_Med 10.7
8 Red_Sea 1.31

Do you have K13 of these folks?

[Dick]

Do you have K13 of these folks?

Zajecar and Leskovac is my friend irl from Canada. He did 23andme and told him to upload to gedmatch. We are also not related. He is I1 and most likely related to Z63 Pericic from Kosovo in Serbian dna project

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.21
2 North_Atlantic 25.09
3 West_Med 15.55
4 East_Med 15.5
5 West_Asian 9.87
6 Red_Sea 1.22
7 South_Asian 0.39
8 Siberian 0.18

[vbnetkhio]

https://i.imgur.com/heBnqQK.png

most of these samples have some exotic admixture, mostly gypsy. that northernmost Romanian is probably 1/4 Russian
otherwise Bulgarians, Macedonians and Romanians are like Gheg Albanians pulled towards Belgorod.

[PAGANE]

https://i.imgur.com/heBnqQK.png

most of these samples have some exotic admixture, mostly gypsy. that northernmost Romanian is probably 1/4 Russian
otherwise Bulgarians, Macedonians and Romanians are like Gheg Albanians pulled towards Belgorod.

Normally, taking into account the last 500 years in the Ottoman Empire and the great migrations of people, especially the 16th-19th centuries northwest of the Balkans and northeast in the direction of Wallachia, Moldova and Russia. These five centuries have displaced many of the population and we must not forget it

[pelikarski]

Two Bulgarians who posted their results here
The first one from Western Bulgaria
Eurogenes V2 K15
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 19.55
2 West_Med 14.44
3 Eastern_Euro 14.24
4 East_Med 14.13
5 West_Asian 11.79
6 North_Sea 11.23
7 Atlantic 10.42
8 Red_Sea 2.95
9 Oceanian 0.68
10 Southeast_Asian 0.59

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?285419-Bulgarian-Autosomal-(very-differing)-Results/page5&p=5949549#post5949549

The second from SW Bulgaria with distant Greek ancestry
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?285419-Bulgarian-Autosomal-(very-differing)-Results
1 North_Atlantic 26.9
2 Baltic 22.33
3 East_Med 21.27
4 West_Med 16.06
5 West_Asian 9.16
6 Siberian 2
7 Red_Sea 1.27
8 Amerindian 0.56
9 Oceanian 0.29
10 East_Asian 0.11
11 South_Asian 0.06

[Insuperable]

https://i.imgur.com/heBnqQK.png

most of these samples have some exotic admixture, mostly gypsy. that northernmost Romanian is probably 1/4 Russian
otherwise Bulgarians, Macedonians and Romanians are like Gheg Albanians pulled towards Belgorod.

What is Gypsy about this person?
https://i.postimg.cc/13L9RHSc/heBnqQK.png

He has unusually high Baltic and East Euro (I think even highest among Balkan Slav in general) components for someone who has that much East Med and West Asian and gets pulled laterally towards the East. Would his non-European components remain the same, but at the same time his East Euro components diminished in favor of West Euro components he would be significantly laterally shifted towards the west.

[bained]

Oh no, another good thread ruined with imaginary "slavs" in great numbers from marshes. Anything that doesn't fit history or PCA is "slav". Time to hide.

[vbnetkhio]

What is Gypsy about this person?
https://i.postimg.cc/13L9RHSc/heBnqQK.png

He has unusually high Baltic and East Euro (I think even highest among Balkan Slav in general) components for someone who has that much East Med and West Asian and gets pulled laterally towards the East. Would his non-European components remain the same, but at the same time his East Euro components diminished in favor of West Euro components he would be significantly laterally shifted towards the west.

thats why i said most, not all. this one is not exotic at all.

Kit Z636008

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.98
2 Eastern_Euro 15.34
3 North_Sea 15.06
4 West_Med 12.49
5 Atlantic 12.12
6 East_Med 10.92
7 West_Asian 9.19
8 Oceanian 0.77
9 Amerindian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.56
2 Croatian 7.59
3 Romanian 9.86
4 Serbian 10.17
5 Bulgarian 10.77
6 Hungarian 11.17
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.35
8 Ukrainian 12.07
9 South_Polish 12.29
10 Austrian 13
11 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.76
12 Russian_Smolensk 14.39
13 Southwest_Russian 14.51
14 Polish 14.95
15 East_German 16.09
16 Belorussian 16.47
17 Estonian_Polish 16.49
18 Kargopol_Russian 17.97
19 Greek_Thessaly 18.13
20 Greek 18.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 42.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.26
2 56% Southwest_Russian + 44% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.52
3 61.9% Ukrainian + 38.1% Greek @ 4.57
4 58.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.7% Greek @ 4.64
5 65.8% Bulgarian + 34.2% Lithuanian @ 4.7
6 57.2% Bulgarian + 42.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.7
7 50.8% Greek + 49.2% Lithuanian @ 4.76
8 51.6% Greek_Thessaly + 48.4% Lithuanian @ 4.76
9 53.4% Bulgarian + 46.6% Ukrainian @ 4.8
10 63.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 36.3% Greek @ 4.8
11 58.7% Bulgarian + 41.3% Southwest_Russian @ 4.81
12 56.9% Southwest_Russian + 43.1% Greek @ 4.84
13 76.9% Ukrainian + 23.1% Cyprian @ 4.9
14 52.6% Estonian_Polish + 47.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.95
15 88% Moldavian + 12% Greek @ 4.99
16 80.2% Moldavian + 19.8% Bulgarian @ 5.03
17 51.7% Bulgarian + 48.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.05
18 94% Moldavian + 6% Cyprian @ 5.05
19 56.4% Russian_Smolensk + 43.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.06
20 65.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 34.9% Central_Greek @ 5.1

he gets Greek + Slavic, like a lot of eastern Balkanians and some Serbs, he is just more Slavic and less Greek than them

[Jana]

Oh no, another good thread ruined with imaginary "slavs" in great numbers from marshes. Anything that doesn't fit history or PCA is "slav". Time to hide.

Meaning ? I don't understand this post.

[Jana]

thats why i said most, not all. this one is not exotic at all.

Kit Z636008

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.98
2 Eastern_Euro 15.34
3 North_Sea 15.06
4 West_Med 12.49
5 Atlantic 12.12
6 East_Med 10.92
7 West_Asian 9.19
8 Oceanian 0.77
9 Amerindian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.56
2 Croatian 7.59
3 Romanian 9.86
4 Serbian 10.17
5 Bulgarian 10.77
6 Hungarian 11.17
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.35
8 Ukrainian 12.07
9 South_Polish 12.29
10 Austrian 13
11 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.76
12 Russian_Smolensk 14.39
13 Southwest_Russian 14.51
14 Polish 14.95
15 East_German 16.09
16 Belorussian 16.47
17 Estonian_Polish 16.49
18 Kargopol_Russian 17.97
19 Greek_Thessaly 18.13
20 Greek 18.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 42.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.26
2 56% Southwest_Russian + 44% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.52
3 61.9% Ukrainian + 38.1% Greek @ 4.57
4 58.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.7% Greek @ 4.64
5 65.8% Bulgarian + 34.2% Lithuanian @ 4.7
6 57.2% Bulgarian + 42.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.7
7 50.8% Greek + 49.2% Lithuanian @ 4.76
8 51.6% Greek_Thessaly + 48.4% Lithuanian @ 4.76
9 53.4% Bulgarian + 46.6% Ukrainian @ 4.8
10 63.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 36.3% Greek @ 4.8
11 58.7% Bulgarian + 41.3% Southwest_Russian @ 4.81
12 56.9% Southwest_Russian + 43.1% Greek @ 4.84
13 76.9% Ukrainian + 23.1% Cyprian @ 4.9
14 52.6% Estonian_Polish + 47.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.95
15 88% Moldavian + 12% Greek @ 4.99
16 80.2% Moldavian + 19.8% Bulgarian @ 5.03
17 51.7% Bulgarian + 48.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.05
18 94% Moldavian + 6% Cyprian @ 5.05
19 56.4% Russian_Smolensk + 43.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.06
20 65.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 34.9% Central_Greek @ 5.1

he gets Greek + Slavic, like a lot of eastern Balkanians and some Serbs, he is just more Slavic and less Greek than them

What is this person ethnicity ?

[Ford]

Bosniak from Prijedor, very Slavic. Basically crypto Croat.

K15
Population
North_Sea 12.98 Pct
Atlantic 21.15 Pct
Baltic 24.78 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.86 Pct
West_Med 10.03 Pct
West_Asian 9.92 Pct
East_Med 4.69 Pct
Red_Sea 1.11 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.29 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.20 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

K13
North_Atlantic 25.23 Pct
Baltic 36.39 Pct
West_Med 15.69 Pct
West_Asian 9.84 Pct
East_Med 10.34 Pct
Red_Sea 0.84 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.11 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.58 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

[Ford]

Bosniak from Prijepolje

K13
North_Atlantic 21.71 Pct
Baltic 28.75 Pct
West_Med 16.74 Pct
West_Asian 12.78 Pct
East_Med 15.50 Pct
Red_Sea 1.80 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.57 Pct
Siberian 0.54 Pct
Amerindian 0.91 Pct
Oceanian 0.18 Pct
Northeast_African 0.26 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.26 Pct

K15
North_Sea 15.89 Pct
Atlantic 12.55 Pct
Baltic 16.89 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.16 Pct
West_Med 12.98 Pct
West_Asian 12.10 Pct
East_Med 12.27 Pct
Red_Sea 2.10 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.59 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.45 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

[vbnetkhio]

Oh no, another good thread ruined with imaginary "slavs" in great numbers from marshes. Anything that doesn't fit history or PCA is "slav". Time to hide.

that's what i concluded looking at their results in gedmatch calcualtors, they are not perfect, but it's the best i have.
btw i would like to hear your opinion too. it's boring to just post my theories and get no feedback.

[vbnetkhio]

What is this person ethnicity ?

Herzegovina Croat.

[Jana]

On K15 all my family gets way higher North Sea than Baltic, including my husband. I didn't notice this is common.

On K13 though our results are standard (higher Baltic than North Atlantic)

I feel K15 isn't as balanced as K13.

Because North Sea is pure Germanic component peaking in Norway, Scyhtians get lot of it too. My family gets practically no Germanic in commercial tests neither I get any on Global 25, so I think K15 isn't as good as K13.

[Jana]

Herzegovina Croat.

Lot of BiH Croats are kinda eastern shifted, many (but not all) Dalmatians too. In Bosnia-Herzegovina there are little to none genetic differences among ethnic groups.

Southern Croatia are practically same cluster with BiH, North Croatia is different. No suprise since many of us in Dalmatia have origins from there.

I except similar for Slavonia but there is probably some internal diversity there.

[vbnetkhio]

Lot of BiH Croats are kinda eastern shifted, many (but not all) Dalmatians too. In Bosnia-Herzegovina there are little to none genetic differences among ethnic groups.

Southern Croatia are practically same cluster with BiH, North Croatia is different. No suprise since many of us in Dalmatia have origins from there.

I except similar for Slavonia but there is probably some internal diversity there.

on this PCA so far only Bosnian Croats overlap with the Serb/Bosniak cluster. the Dalmatian coastal Croat, and you and your family are north of that. Herzegovina Croats are east of that, they are more Slavic, but a lot of them also have something exotic in addition to that(at least according to the oracle result)

[Jana]

on this PCA so far only Bosnian Croats overlap with the Serb/Bosniak cluster. the Dalmatian coastal Croat, and you and your family are north of that. Herzegovina Croats are east of that, they are more Slavic, but a lot of them also have something exotic in addition to that(at least according to the oracle result)

My father is 1/4 Bosniak, mother is 1/8 Serb (and something else I am not sure abut). It is interesting about Herzegovina. Because they are stereotyped as least Slavic looking Croats (as well as darkest).

Show how stupid and often outdated these stereotypes are.

[bained]

that's what i concluded looking at their results in gedmatch calcualtors, they are not perfect, but it's the best i have.
btw i would like to hear your opinion too. it's boring to just post my theories and get no feedback.

Idk man, I was silenced and warned on another forum for disagreeing with the whole Slav invasion thing. I can post 2 sources by Florin Curta from Cambridge University, where he explains that name changes of tribes north of Danube was very common and often contradicted the previous source. In 1 sentence, I agree there was some movement of people into the Balkans, but in no time they were ever homogenous or belonged in Slavic super-ethnicity, culture whatever. And I think if you include the ancient samples from Moldova Scythian and the Alans, you can also make a good fit for the PCA. Thing is we dont have any samples between 0 to 600AD, when there were multiple groups settling the Balkans.

1. https://www.academia.edu/38961942/Ethnicity_in_the_steppe_lands_of_the_northern_Blac k_Sea_region_during_the_early_Byzantine_times?fbcl id=IwAR14vtAD8jLIp1c-mUV2JoW5KyqOvPEqRNckjX6bnCzxfIC8Gdbg9gKodh0
2. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/making-of-the-slavs/AFD2FC388080F2ADC408D15C2230E5E4

P.S. Why were the Avar samples immediately labeled "slavic women" and the Magyar chief immediately "Magyarised Slav" ? Sounds fishy as fuck.

[vbnetkhio]

It is interesting about Herzegovina. Because they are stereotyped as least Slavic looking Croats (as well as darkest)

it could be these exotic influences. they all get 90% Central Euro(Ukrainian, Hungarian, Croatian) + 10% something exotic.
i'm not sure if the last 2 are from Herzegovina, Cumansky posted them. but they get similar results as the first 2.

Z535935 Croatia_B-H1H(Herzegovina)
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 21.33
2 Atlantic 19.93
3 North_Sea 15.98
4 Eastern_Euro 14.09
5 West_Asian 10.36
6 West_Med 9.99
7 East_Med 7.35
8 Amerindian 0.47
9 Red_Sea 0.38
10 Oceanian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 4.78
2 Moldavian 6.53
3 Austrian 6.78
4 Serbian 8.27
5 Hungarian 8.46
6 Romanian 9.34
7 South_Polish 10.6
8 Bulgarian 11.27
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.34
10 East_German 11.35
11 Ukrainian 12.08
12 Russian_Smolensk 12.78
13 Polish 12.89
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.42
15 Southwest_Russian 14.1
16 Estonian_Polish 15.49
17 Belorussian 15.5
18 Southwest_Finnish 17.03
19 Kargopol_Russian 17.64
20 South_Dutch 17.83

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.6% Croatian + 6.4% Abhkasian @ 3.39
2 92.5% Croatian + 7.5% North_Ossetian @ 3.41
3 93.2% Croatian + 6.8% Georgian @ 3.41
4 92.2% Croatian + 7.8% Adygei @ 3.43
5 92.2% Croatian + 7.8% Balkar @ 3.48
6 91.9% Croatian + 8.1% Kabardin @ 3.49
7 92.8% Croatian + 7.2% Ossetian @ 3.49
8 92.4% Croatian + 7.6% Chechen @ 3.61
9 92% Croatian + 8% Kumyk @ 3.65
10 92.1% Croatian + 7.9% Turkish @ 3.75
11 92.6% Croatian + 7.4% Lezgin @ 3.78
12 78.6% Croatian + 21.4% Bulgarian @ 3.81
13 93.7% Croatian + 6.3% Armenian @ 3.81
14 93.5% Croatian + 6.5% Kurdish @ 3.86
15 93% Croatian + 7% Azeri @ 3.86
16 58.9% Romanian + 41.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.87
17 93.9% Croatian + 6.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.87
18 75.6% Croatian + 24.4% Romanian @ 3.92
19 89.8% Croatian + 10.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.93
20 93.1% Croatian + 6.9% Tabassaran @ 3.96

Z728548 croatBHCHZ11_1m(Herz)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 25.97
2 Baltic 19.16
3 Atlantic 13.01
4 Eastern_Euro 12.61
5 West_Med 10.57
6 West_Asian 6.62
7 East_Med 6.35
8 South_Asian 4.04
9 Red_Sea 0.93
10 Siberian 0.38
11 Amerindian 0.36
12 Oceanian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 5.24
2 Moldavian 7.75
3 East_German 8.79
4 Croatian 8.97
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.99
6 Serbian 10.2
7 Austrian 10.46
8 Ukrainian 10.84
9 South_Polish 11.24
10 Romanian 12.94
11 West_German 13.72
12 Polish 13.9
13 Southwest_Finnish 13.98
14 Finnish 14.04
15 South_Dutch 15.32
16 North_Swedish 15.37
17 Russian_Smolensk 15.97
18 Bulgarian 15.98
19 North_German 16.01
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.07

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.9% Hungarian + 5.1% Gujarati @ 4.16
2 93.7% Hungarian + 6.3% Punjabi_Jat @ 4.18
3 95.7% Hungarian + 4.3% Kol @ 4.19
4 95.8% Hungarian + 4.2% Dusadh @ 4.22
5 95.8% Hungarian + 4.2% Velamas @ 4.23
6 95.8% Hungarian + 4.2% Kurumba @ 4.23
7 96% Hungarian + 4% Piramalai @ 4.24
8 95.1% Hungarian + 4.9% Kshatriya @ 4.24
9 95.5% Hungarian + 4.5% Dharkar @ 4.25
10 96.1% Hungarian + 3.9% Sakilli @ 4.25
11 95.9% Hungarian + 4.1% North_Kannadi @ 4.25
12 94.8% Hungarian + 5.2% Brahmin_UP @ 4.26
13 95.7% Hungarian + 4.3% Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.26
14 96.1% Hungarian + 3.9% Chamar @ 4.26
15 95.6% Hungarian + 4.4% Kanjar @ 4.26
16 95.9% Hungarian + 4.1% Chenchu @ 4.26
17 94.5% Hungarian + 5.5% Sindhi @ 4.29
18 95.2% Hungarian + 4.8% Bangladeshi @ 4.3
19 93.9% Hungarian + 6.1% Pathan @ 4.3
20 94% Hungarian + 6% Kalash @ 4.36

Gp3448254 Croatian Gp3448254

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 24.18
2 Baltic 20.72
3 Atlantic 16.56
4 East_Med 12.07
5 Eastern_Euro 11.7
6 West_Med 9.16
7 West_Asian 4.09
8 South_Asian 0.94
9 Amerindian 0.31
10 Northeast_African 0.2
11 Sub-Saharan 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.86
2 Croatian 8.25
3 Austrian 8.3
4 Serbian 8.45
5 Moldavian 8.65
6 East_German 9.75
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.03
8 Romanian 11.21
9 South_Polish 11.46
10 Ukrainian 11.76
11 Polish 13.75
12 Bulgarian 13.79
13 West_German 14.47
14 Southwest_Finnish 14.51
15 Finnish 15.23
16 South_Dutch 15.33
17 Russian_Smolensk 15.5
18 North_German 16.17
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.21
20 Southwest_Russian 16.24

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.2% Hungarian + 5.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 4
2 95.5% Hungarian + 4.5% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.13
3 94.9% Hungarian + 5.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.2
4 93.7% Hungarian + 6.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.21
5 94.7% Hungarian + 5.3% Palestinian @ 4.21
6 94.9% Hungarian + 5.1% Samaritan @ 4.22
7 93.5% Hungarian + 6.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.27
8 94.1% Hungarian + 5.9% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.29
9 93.4% Hungarian + 6.6% Italian_Jewish @ 4.3
10 94.6% Hungarian + 5.4% Cyprian @ 4.3
11 95% Hungarian + 5% Jordanian @ 4.32
12 95.4% Hungarian + 4.6% Egyptian @ 4.37
13 89.9% Hungarian + 10.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.38
14 94% Hungarian + 6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.38
15 95.1% Hungarian + 4.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.39
16 93.3% Hungarian + 6.7% South_Italian @ 4.4
17 95.7% Hungarian + 4.3% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.4
18 95.8% Hungarian + 4.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.41
19 91.2% Hungarian + 8.8% Greek @ 4.43
20 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% West_Sicilian @ 4.43

T063442 Croatian T063442

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.41
2 North_Sea 19.6
3 Eastern_Euro 16.76
4 East_Med 10.82
5 Atlantic 10.79
6 West_Med 9.98
7 West_Asian 4.87
8 Red_Sea 1.4
9 Northeast_African 0.89
10 Siberian 0.28
11 Southeast_Asian 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 6.14
2 Croatian 7.54
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.23
4 Ukrainian 8.73
5 Hungarian 9.19
6 South_Polish 9.7
7 Serbian 11.12
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.86
9 Polish 12.11
10 Southwest_Russian 12.17
11 Russian_Smolensk 12.53
12 Romanian 12.71
13 Austrian 12.76
14 Belorussian 13.85
15 Estonian_Polish 14.08
16 East_German 14.48
17 Bulgarian 14.52
18 Kargopol_Russian 15.18
19 Estonian 15.81
20 Erzya 16.31

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.6% Ukrainian + 15.4% Samaritan @ 3.15
2 85% Ukrainian + 15% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.25
3 85% Ukrainian + 15% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.35
4 82.4% Ukrainian + 17.6% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.38
5 83.2% Ukrainian + 16.8% Cyprian @ 3.47
6 84.7% Ukrainian + 15.3% Palestinian @ 3.59
7 84.3% Ukrainian + 15.7% Jordanian @ 3.72
8 82.9% Ukrainian + 17.1% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.92
9 81.7% Ukrainian + 18.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.94
10 84% Ukrainian + 16% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.95
11 84.1% Ukrainian + 15.9% Syrian @ 4
12 81.4% Ukrainian + 18.6% Italian_Jewish @ 4.03
13 77.1% Ukrainian + 22.9% Ashkenazi @ 4.07
14 87.6% Ukrainian + 12.4% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.07
15 85.8% Ukrainian + 14.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.12
16 86.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.7% Samaritan @ 4.18
17 84.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 15.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.21
18 86.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.23
19 72.7% Ukrainian + 27.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.23
20 86.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.24

[Jana]

Idk man, I was silenced and warned on another forum for disagreeing with the whole Slav invasion thing. I can post 2 sources by Florin Curta from Cambridge University, where he explains that name changes of tribes north of Danube was very common and often contradicted the previous source. In 1 sentence, I agree there was some movement of people into the Balkans, but in no time they were ever homogenous or belonged in Slavic super-ethnicity. And I think if you include the ancient samples from Moldova Scythian and the Alans, you can also make a good fit for the PCA. Thing is we dont have any samples between 0 to 600AD, when there were multiple groups settling the Balkans.

1. https://www.academia.edu/38961942/Ethnicity_in_the_steppe_lands_of_the_northern_Blac k_Sea_region_during_the_early_Byzantine_times?fbcl id=IwAR14vtAD8jLIp1c-mUV2JoW5KyqOvPEqRNckjX6bnCzxfIC8Gdbg9gKodh0
2. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/making-of-the-slavs/AFD2FC388080F2ADC408D15C2230E5E4

P.S. Why were the Avar samples immediately labeled "slavic women" and the Magyar chief immediately "Magyarised Slav" ? Sounds fishy as fuck.

Florin Curta was dismissed as unreliable scholar by many other serious acedemics.
Btw, if Avars from Szoad cluster with Belarusians and have 0% mongoloid, what are they but Slavic ? It is well known some Slavic allies of Avars assimilated with them. Or Belarusians are Avars ??!

:picard2::rolleyes:

I don't remember anyone labeling some Magyar chief as Slavic, they certanly were not.

[Jana]

OP, do you think my husband has possible minor Gypsy admixture ? On calculators he is most often modeled 90% Hungarian + 10% North Caucasian or Afghan/Tajik though.

[Insuperable]

What is so exotic about this person?

Population Percent
1 Baltic 21.33
2 Atlantic 19.93
3 North_Sea 15.98
4 Eastern_Euro 14.09
5 West_Asian 10.36
6 West_Med 9.99
7 East_Med 7.35
8 Amerindian 0.47
9 Red_Sea 0.38
10 Oceanian 0.13

[Insuperable]

Plot this Croat from Herzegovina too.
M803078

[MercifulServant]

Mine

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.06
2 North_Atlantic 23.13
3 West_Med 19.05
4 West_Asian 12.54
5 East_Med 10.34
6 Red_Sea 3.4
7 Siberian 0.73
8 Oceanian 0.37
9 East_Asian 0.2
10 Amerindian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.99
2 Serbian 7.42
3 Romanian 8.66
4 Croatian 8.89
5 Bulgarian 10.15
6 Hungarian 11.18
7 Austrian 13.91
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.44
9 East_German 14.86
10 South_Polish 15.97
11 Ukrainian 16.04
12 Greek_Thessaly 18.16
13 Polish 19.05
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 19.4
15 Southwest_Russian 19.47
16 West_German 19.88
17 North_Italian 20.89
18 Russian_Smolensk 20.98
19 South_Dutch 21.11
20 French 21.29

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.6% Moldavian + 9.4% Sardinian @ 4.18
2 86% Moldavian + 14% Central_Greek @ 4.51
3 88.1% Moldavian + 11.9% South_Italian @ 4.57
4 86% Moldavian + 14% Italian_Abruzzo @ 4.58
5 87% Moldavian + 13% East_Sicilian @ 4.6
6 87.1% Moldavian + 12.9% West_Sicilian @ 4.68
7 82.4% Moldavian + 17.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.68
8 85.5% Moldavian + 14.5% Tuscan @ 4.7
9 84.9% Moldavian + 15.1% North_Italian @ 4.78
10 71.3% Moldavian + 28.7% Bulgarian @ 4.79
11 91.7% Moldavian + 8.3% Cyprian @ 4.83
12 92.6% Moldavian + 7.4% Armenian @ 4.84
13 92.8% Moldavian + 7.2% Georgian @ 4.86
14 67.2% Moldavian + 32.8% Romanian @ 4.86
15 90.8% Moldavian + 9.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.89
16 90.9% Moldavian + 9.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.9
17 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Abhkasian @ 4.92
18 91.3% Moldavian + 8.7% Turkish @ 4.94
19 92.3% Moldavian + 7.7% Moroccan @ 4.98
20 92.4% Moldavian + 7.6% Ossetian @ 4.98

[Ford]

What is so exotic about this person?

Population Percent
1 Baltic 21.33
2 Atlantic 19.93
3 North_Sea 15.98
4 Eastern_Euro 14.09
5 West_Asian 10.36
6 West_Med 9.99
7 East_Med 7.35
8 Amerindian 0.47
9 Red_Sea 0.38
10 Oceanian 0.13

Nothing tbh, maybe west asia is on the higher end but the other components aren't anything special from what I can see.

[MercifulServant]

On K15 all my family gets way higher North Sea than Baltic, including my husband. I didn't notice this is common.

On K13 though our results are standard (higher Baltic than North Atlantic)

I feel K15 isn't as balanced as K13.

Because North Sea is pure Germanic component peaking in Norway, Scyhtians get lot of it too. My family gets practically no Germanic in commercial tests neither I get any on Global 25, so I think K15 isn't as good as K13.

K13 is definitely better. K15 just has unessecery components and many people get weird results on it. What matters with K15 is not the components but where you plot on a PCA

[Jana]

K13 is definitely better. K15 just has unessecery components and many people get weird results on it. What matters with K15 is not the components but where you plot on a PCA

Agreed. North Sea and East Euro are unnecessary and unbalanced components. PCA is good to compare with other people indeed.

As some poster said, K13 is by far best gedmatch can offer.
Their reference populations need some updates though (some are lacking)

[vbnetkhio]

Idk man, I was silenced and warned on another forum for disagreeing with the whole Slav invasion thing. I can post 2 sources by Florin Curta from Cambridge University, where he explains that name changes of tribes north of Danube was very common and often contradicted the previous source. In 1 sentence, I agree there was some movement of people into the Balkans, but in no time they were ever homogenous or belonged in Slavic super-ethnicity. And I think if you include the ancient samples from Moldova Scythian and the Alans, you can also make a good fit for the PCA. Thing is we dont have any samples between 0 to 600AD, when there were multiple groups settling the Balkans.

1. https://www.academia.edu/38961942/Ethnicity_in_the_steppe_lands_of_the_northern_Blac k_Sea_region_during_the_early_Byzantine_times?fbcl id=IwAR14vtAD8jLIp1c-mUV2JoW5KyqOvPEqRNckjX6bnCzxfIC8Gdbg9gKodh0
2. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/making-of-the-slavs/AFD2FC388080F2ADC408D15C2230E5E4

P.S. Why were the Avar samples immediately labeled "slavic women" and the Magyar chief immediately "Magyarised Slav" ? Sounds fishy as fuck.

i'll add ancient samples available on Gedmatch later today. do we have an Alan sample?

PCA is only 2d. i can't make fits with it.i i make conclusions from admixture results and oracle, the PCA is just there to summarize it and show it visually.
just looking at the PCA, an east pulled Bulgarian could be pulled east by Caucasian, Indian, East Asian ..very different stuff. but then we look at his results and oracle, and he gets 90% Bulgarian +10% Turkish for example. then it's much clearer.

most Balkanites i've seen so far get something Slavic + some region of Greece or Italy in oracles. and the pre-Slavic Balkan samples all get Italy or Greece on the first place in oracle.

[Mingle]

Western Sandžak Muslim (Sjenica)

Eurogenes K13

Population :
North_Atlantic 21.89
Baltic 27.05
West_Med 17.93
West_Asian 10.19
East_Med 18.15
Red_Sea 2.57
Amerindian 1.05
Oceanian 0.53
Sub-Saharan 0.64

Western Sandžak Muslim (Sjenica/Novi Pazar)

Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 26
2 Baltic 24.89
3 West_Med 19.84
4 East_Med 17
5 West_Asian 7.93
6 Red_Sea 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.39
8 Siberian 0.01

Eurogenes K15

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 21.33
2 West_Med 15.86
3 Baltic 15.38
4 East_Med 13.86
5 Atlantic 13.81
6 Eastern_Euro 8.72
7 West_Asian 7.97
8 Red_Sea 2.82
9 South_Asian 0.25

SE Serb/Shop Serb (Jablanica)

Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.19
2 North_Atlantic 22.22
3 West_Med 19.89
4 East_Med 17.8
5 West_Asian 8.06
6 Siberian 2.59
7 Red_Sea 1.43
8 Sub-Saharan 0.28
9 East_Asian 0.27
10 South_Asian 0.27

Eurogenes K15

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 18.91
2 Baltic 16.86
3 West_Med 15.52
4 East_Med 14.06
5 Atlantic 11.65
6 Eastern_Euro 11.18
7 West_Asian 8.16
8 Siberian 1.92
9 Red_Sea 1.74

[Aspirin]

Results of Moldavian user, Zmey Gorynych.

K13
Population
North_Atlantic 22.18
Baltic 33.94
West_Med 14.38
West_Asian 9.99
East_Med 13.86
Red_Sea 3.05
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.21
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.91
Oceanian 0.49
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

K15
Population
North_Sea 14.53
Atlantic 15.33
Baltic 21.60
Eastern_Euro 14.69
West_Med 10.95
West_Asian 9.85
East_Med 8.96
Red_Sea 2.97
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.38
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.50
Oceanian 0.24
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Leto]

Mine

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.06
2 North_Atlantic 23.13
3 West_Med 19.05
4 West_Asian 12.54
5 East_Med 10.34
6 Red_Sea 3.4
7 Siberian 0.73
8 Oceanian 0.37
9 East_Asian 0.2
10 Amerindian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.99
2 Serbian 7.42
3 Romanian 8.66
4 Croatian 8.89
5 Bulgarian 10.15
6 Hungarian 11.18
7 Austrian 13.91
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.44
9 East_German 14.86
10 South_Polish 15.97
11 Ukrainian 16.04
12 Greek_Thessaly 18.16
13 Polish 19.05
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 19.4
15 Southwest_Russian 19.47
16 West_German 19.88
17 North_Italian 20.89
18 Russian_Smolensk 20.98
19 South_Dutch 21.11
20 French 21.29

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.6% Moldavian + 9.4% Sardinian @ 4.18
2 86% Moldavian + 14% Central_Greek @ 4.51
3 88.1% Moldavian + 11.9% South_Italian @ 4.57
4 86% Moldavian + 14% Italian_Abruzzo @ 4.58
5 87% Moldavian + 13% East_Sicilian @ 4.6
6 87.1% Moldavian + 12.9% West_Sicilian @ 4.68
7 82.4% Moldavian + 17.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.68
8 85.5% Moldavian + 14.5% Tuscan @ 4.7
9 84.9% Moldavian + 15.1% North_Italian @ 4.78
10 71.3% Moldavian + 28.7% Bulgarian @ 4.79
11 91.7% Moldavian + 8.3% Cyprian @ 4.83
12 92.6% Moldavian + 7.4% Armenian @ 4.84
13 92.8% Moldavian + 7.2% Georgian @ 4.86
14 67.2% Moldavian + 32.8% Romanian @ 4.86
15 90.8% Moldavian + 9.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.89
16 90.9% Moldavian + 9.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.9
17 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Abhkasian @ 4.92
18 91.3% Moldavian + 8.7% Turkish @ 4.94
19 92.3% Moldavian + 7.7% Moroccan @ 4.98
20 92.4% Moldavian + 7.6% Ossetian @ 4.98
Why did you imply in the past that you were a wog or swarthoid? Your results are not even super Balkanic.

What are your West Med, West Asian, East Med and Red Sea scores from K15?

[vbnetkhio]

OP, do you think my husband has possible minor Gypsy admixture ? On calculators he is most often modeled 90% Hungarian + 10% North Caucasian or Afghan/Tajik though.

he could have some ancestry from Jász people, with that result?
he has ~2% South Asian, which is too much to be noise i think, but it's hard to draw any conclusion from that, because this South Asian is spread far outside India and Pakistan.. that's why the oracle is there, to interpret this
anyway it's hard to say just based on k15... does he score "Hungarian+Roma" in mdlp k23b oracle, for example?

i also noticed he has increased Amerindian and Siberian, i'm sure that's at least partially from the original Magyars

[Jana]

he could have some ancestry from Jász people, with that result?
he has ~2% South Asian, which is too much to be noise i think, but it's hard to draw any conclusion from that, because this South Asian is spread far outside India and Pakistan.. that's why the oracle is there, to interpret this
anyway it's hard to say just based on k15... does he score "Hungarian+Roma" in mdlp k23b oracle, for example?

i also noticed he has increased Amerindian and Siberian, i'm sure that's at least partially from the original Magyars

He does get some south Asian populations in K23b, but not Roma.

http://imgur.com/a/4fyLO9I

92-94 % Croat + 6-7% Jatt/Burusho/Tiwari/Gujarati

[vbnetkhio]

What is so exotic about this person?

Population Percent
1 Baltic 21.33
2 Atlantic 19.93
3 North_Sea 15.98
4 Eastern_Euro 14.09
5 West_Asian 10.36
6 West_Med 9.99
7 East_Med 7.35
8 Amerindian 0.47
9 Red_Sea 0.38
10 Oceanian 0.13

exotic enough to score completely different in oracle than any other Croat. it's hard to interpret the raw result without the oracle.
i have a Croat kit whith some South Asian admixture, he still has normal Med+Slav results in oracles. you have to be really strongly admixed to score like this in oracle.

[Leto]

he has ~2% South Asian, which is too much to be noise i think, but it's hard to draw any conclusion from that, because this South Asian is spread far outside India and Pakistan.. that's why the oracle is there, to interpret this

If the South Asian goes down to a noise level on Dod K12b and Harappa, then it IS definitely noiz. By the way, even 2% often doesn't mean much, especially when it pops up on one calc only.

[vbnetkhio]

If the South Asian goes down to a noise level on Dod K12b and Harappa, then it IS definitely noiz. By the way, even 2% often doesn't mean much, especially when it pops up on one calc only.

you have his k12b and harappa results?

[Jana]

If the South Asian goes down to a noise level on Dod K12b and Harappa, then it IS definitely noiz. By the way, even 2% often doesn't mean much, especially when it pops up on one calc only.

Harappa- south Indian 1.21
Dodecad K12b- South Asian 1.43

[Jana]

you have his k12b and harappa results?

K12b full

http://imgur.com/a/aZhan1z

[Mingle]

Another Sanžak Muslim result:

Eurogenes K15


North_Sea 20.73
Atlantic 14.38
Baltic 15.22
Eastern_Euro 11.16
West_Med 17.76
West_Asian 5.49
East_Med 12.95
Red_Sea 1.5
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.2
Oceanian 0.61
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Leto]

Harappa- south Indian 1.21
Dodecad K12b- South Asian 1.43
He is about 1/16 Romani. Congrats to him :cool:

[Jana]

He is about 1/16 Romani. Congrats to him :cool:

Really funny considering how racist and xenophobic he is. Good lesson for him, if true.

[Mingle]

Really funny considering how racist and xenophobic he is. Good lesson for him, if true.

Didn't you say that you had it checked before with a geneticist or something and they said it wasn't Romani? I think there's a chance it may be something ancient. But first, I think we should compare his results to those of pure Szeklers because I'm wondering how likely it is that he got it from that side. If the South Asian in Szeklers is similar to that in Hungary Hungarians (and most other Europeans), then there's a high chance its Romani. If not, then it's probably related to his Szekler side. After all, Szeklers tend to have more East Eurasian compared to their neighbors so who knows, maybe they also naturally have more South Asian as well.

[Leto]

Could you add this guy? A (former) TA member, he is not a South Slav, he is of mixed ancestry.



North_Sea 11.52 Pct
Atlantic 10.86 Pct
Baltic 13.18 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.75 Pct
West_Med 6.89 Pct
West_Asian 10.51 Pct
East_Med 20.99 Pct
Red_Sea 6.42 Pct
South_Asian 1.81 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.86 Pct
Amerindian 0.43 Pct
Oceanian 0.50 Pct
Northeast_African 1.51 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.77 Pct

[Jana]

Didn't you say that you had it checked before with a geneticist or something and they said it wasn't Romani? I think there's a chance it may be something ancient. But first, I think we should compare his results to those of pure Szeklers because I'm wondering how likely it is that he got it from that side. If the South Asian in Szeklers is similar to that in Hungary Hungarians (and most other Europeans), then there's a high chance its Romani. If not, then it's probably related to his Szekler side. After all, Szeklers tend to have more East Eurasian compared to their neighbors so who knows, maybe they also naturally have more South Asian as well.

Yes, that guy said he thinks his Indian is from Tatar like source.

[Mingle]

Yes, that guy said he thinks his Indian is from Tatar like source.

Here is a result that was posted by Leto of a Szekler that is around 1-1.5% South Asian: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?242558-Szekely-Hungarian-GEDmatch-Results

Here is a guy that claims both his parents are from Hungary and his grandfather is from Transylvania:

Eurogenes K13


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 30.76
2 Baltic 27.21
3 West_Med 18.15
4 West_Asian 10.13
5 East_Med 9.41
6 South_Asian 2.25
7 Siberian 1.79


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Hungarian @ 8.059379
2 Serbian @ 8.275251
3 Austrian @ 8.826385
4 Moldavian @ 9.815114
5 East_German @ 10.465078
6 Croatian @ 10.764316
7 Romanian @ 11.542377
8 West_German @ 14.285496
9 Bulgarian @ 14.803082
10 South_Dutch @ 15.717321
11 French @ 16.575891
12 South_Polish @ 17.173874
13 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 17.192041
14 Ukrainian @ 18.623247
15 North_German @ 19.251150
16 North_Italian @ 20.457878
17 Spanish_Galicia @ 21.183605
18 Polish @ 21.313013
19 Portuguese @ 21.438158
20 Spanish_Cataluna @ 21.675425

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% East_German +50% Romanian @ 4.677863


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Estonian_Polish +25% French_Basque +25% Turkish @ 3.485314


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Estonian + French_Basque + Turkish + Ukrainian @ 2.755819
2 French_Basque + Lithuanian + South_Polish + Turkish @ 2.842580
3 Estonian + French_Basque + Polish + Turkish @ 2.897413
4 Estonian + French_Basque + South_Polish + Turkish @ 2.944663
5 French_Basque + Lithuanian + Turkish + Ukrainian @ 2.963033
6 French_Basque + Lithuanian + Polish + Turkish @ 3.008123
7 Estonian_Polish + French_Basque + Polish + Turkish @ 3.139944
8 Estonian + French_Basque + Turkish + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.158569
9 Estonian + French_Basque + Russian_Smolensk + Turkish @ 3.182859
10 Belorussian + French_Basque + Polish + Turkish @ 3.215864
11 Estonian + Estonian_Polish + French_Basque + Turkish @ 3.230844
12 Erzya + French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.249181
13 French_Basque + Polish + Russian_Smolensk + Turkish @ 3.265847
14 Armenian + Estonian + Estonian + French_Basque @ 3.267413
15 French_Basque + Polish + Polish + Turkish @ 3.283576
16 French_Basque + Lithuanian + Turkish + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.310520
17 Estonian + French_Basque + Southwest_Russian + Turkish @ 3.357758
18 French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Ukrainian_Belgorod + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.415923
19 French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Kargopol_Russian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.428199
20 Belorussian + Estonian + French_Basque + Turkish @ 3.439872

Eurogenes K15


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serbian @ 10.094005
2 Hungarian @ 10.210154
3 Moldavian @ 10.774268
4 East_German @ 11.615539
5 Croatian @ 12.700598
6 Austrian @ 12.857929
7 Romanian @ 13.346256
8 West_German @ 15.645119
9 South_Dutch @ 16.340351
10 French @ 16.479872
11 Bulgarian @ 16.651213
12 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 17.123032
13 Ukrainian @ 17.653124
14 South_Polish @ 17.720587
15 Spanish_Galicia @ 19.486757
16 North_German @ 19.645962
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.912615
18 Polish @ 20.615181
19 Finnish @ 20.626419
20 North_Italian @ 20.713125

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Moldavian +50% West_German @ 7.600624


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Finnish +25% Sardinian +25% Tabassaran @ 6.080249


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
1 Estonian + Sardinian + Tabassaran + West_Norwegian @ 4.932977
2 Estonian + North_Swedish + Sardinian + Tabassaran @ 4.970947
3 Estonian + Norwegian + Sardinian + Tabassaran @ 4.985823
4 Estonian + Sardinian + Swedish + Tabassaran @ 5.094259
5 Finnish + North_Swedish + Sardinian + Tabassaran @ 5.485214
6 Lithuanian + Sardinian + Tabassaran + West_Norwegian @ 5.502033
7 East_Finnish + Sardinian + Swedish + Tabassaran @ 5.644237
8 Estonian + Lezgin + Sardinian + West_Norwegian @ 5.678338
9 East_Finnish + Sardinian + Tabassaran + West_Norwegian @ 5.743415
10 Finnish + Sardinian + Swedish + Tabassaran @ 5.768683
11 East_Finnish + Norwegian + Sardinian + Tabassaran @ 5.776908
12 Lithuanian + Norwegian + Sardinian + Tabassaran @ 5.804651
13 East_Finnish + North_Swedish + Sardinian + Tabassaran @ 5.809923
14 Estonian + Lezgin + Norwegian + Sardinian @ 5.836759
15 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Southwest_Finnish + Tabassaran @ 5.862328
16 Finnish + Norwegian + Sardinian + Tabassaran @ 5.896487
17 Estonian_Polish + Sardinian + Tabassaran + West_Norwegian @ 5.896676
18 Kargopol_Russian + Sardinian + Tabassaran + West_Norwegian @ 5.902459
19 Estonian + Lezgin + North_Swedish + Sardinian @ 5.925237
20 Belorussian + Sardinian + Tabassaran + West_Norwegian @ 5.980185

This is all I have on him. His South Asian score is 2.25%, not far off from Stears and his ancestry is also kinda similar to that of Stears' (25% Szekler vs. 50% Szekler). However, the fully Szekler guy posted by Leto gets less South Asian than both of them. Its possible that the guy I posted above also has some distant ancestry. After all, if he was only 25% Szekler, then that means a full Szekler would be at least 5% South Asian which seems kinda high. But then again, inheritance can work in weird ways sometimes. So its hard to say. I think its more likely that Stears got his SA mostly from his Szekler side, but we need to see more Szekler results to confirm. How much South Asian does he get in Eurogenes K13 and K15?

Do Szeklers have surnames that are common/non-existent among Hungarians from Hungary? If so, then we could maybe find some of them on GEDmatch that way.

[Jana]

This result posted by Leto of a Szekler is around 1-1.5% South Asian: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?242558-Szekely-Hungarian-GEDmatch-Results

Here is a guy that claims both his parents are from Hungary and his grandfather is from Transylvania:

Eurogenes K13



Eurogenes K15



This is all I have on him. His South Asian score is 2.25%, not far off from Stears and his ancestry is also kinda similar to that of Stears' (25% Szekler vs. 50% Szekler). However, the fully Szekler guy posted by Leto gets less South Asian than both of them. Its possible that the guy I posted above also has some distant ancestry. After all, if he was only 25% Szekler, then that means a full Szekler would be at least 5% South Asian which seems kinda high. But then again, inheritance can work in weird ways sometimes. So its hard to say. I think its more likely that Stears got his SA mostly from his Szekler side, but we need to see more Szekler results to confirm. How much South Asian does he get in Eurogenes K13 and K15?

Do Szeklers have surnames that are common/non-existent among Hungarians from Hungary? If so, then we could maybe find some of them on GEDmatch that way.

In K13 above 2%, K15 1-2% I think. His K15 posted in beginning somewhere. Their surnames are fairly usual as other Hungarians.

Stears mother home county has many Gypsies, percentage wise most in Transdanubia (although their numbers were much smaller in the past). She refuses to DNA test.

This made me kind of suspicious.

[Mingle]

In K13 above 2%, K15 1-2% I think. His K15 posted in beginning somewhere. Their surnames are fairly usual as other Hungarians.

Stears mother home county has kinda many Gypsies, most in Transdanubia (although their numbers were much smaller in the past). She refuses to DNA test.

This made me kind of suspicious.

I don't think she has anything to hide. Older people just have a different mentality towards the idea of taking DNA tests. I guess the most we can do now is just look for results from his parents' regions to confirm where that SA percentage comes from.

[vbnetkhio]

Didn't you say that you had it checked before with a geneticist or something and they said it wasn't Romani? I think there's a chance it may be something ancient. But first, I think we should compare his results to those of pure Szeklers because I'm wondering how likely it is that he got it from that side. If the South Asian in Szeklers is similar to that in Hungary Hungarians (and most other Europeans), then there's a high chance its Romani. If not, then it's probably related to his Szekler side. After all, Szeklers tend to have more East Eurasian compared to their neighbors so who knows, maybe they also naturally have more South Asian as well.

with the evidence we have from gedmatch calculators and that geneticist, he definitely has some connection to that wider South Asian area, but he didn't get it from Gypsies.

[Leto]

Why are people so interested in where exactly a former member may have gotten his 1-2% South Asian from? xD
He is not even a South Slav by the way.

[Leto]

with the evidence we have from gedmatch calculators and that geneticist, he definitely has some connection to that wider South Asian area, but he didn't get it from Gypsies.
Gypsies are mixed like a motherfucker, have you not seen the G25 model? 55% Greek, 35% Chamar (South Asian Dalits) and 10% Armenian or some shit like that.

[vbnetkhio]

Why are people so interested in where exactly a former member may have gotten his 1-2% South Asian from? xD
He is not even a South Slav by the way.

he's a neighbour :bounce:

[Jana]

Why are people so interested in where exactly a former member may have gotten his 1-2% South Asian from? xD
He is not even a South Slav by the way.

This is not a thread only about South Slavs but all.ethnicities related to them.

[vbnetkhio]

Gypsies are mixed like a motherfucker, have you not seen the G25 model? 55% Greek, 35% Chamar (South Asian Dalits) and 10% Armenian or some shit like that.

i know.
but in oracles which have Gypsy averages in the spreadsheet, he doesn't get Hungarian+Gypsy, and Gypsy admixed people usually do.
and even that geneticist confirmed it... i'm not convinced he has a gypsy ancestor.

[Jana]

i know.
but in oracles which have Gypsy averages in the spreadsheet, he doesn't get Hungarian+Gypsy, and Gypsy admixed people usually do.
and even that geneticist confirmed it... i'm not convinced he has a gypsy ancestor.

He don't look Gypsy at all. :)

[ph2ter]

Originally Posted by bained View Post
Oh no, another good thread ruined with imaginary "slavs" in great numbers from marshes. Anything that doesn't fit history or PCA is "slav". Time to hide.

Meaning ? I don't understand this post.

O.K. Now I know why Bained gave me Thumb down.
He is South Slavic autochthonist.

[vbnetkhio]

Bosniak from Prijepolje

K13
North_Atlantic 21.71 Pct
Baltic 28.75 Pct
West_Med 16.74 Pct
West_Asian 12.78 Pct
East_Med 15.50 Pct
Red_Sea 1.80 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.57 Pct
Siberian 0.54 Pct
Amerindian 0.91 Pct
Oceanian 0.18 Pct
Northeast_African 0.26 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.26 Pct

K15
North_Sea 15.89 Pct
Atlantic 12.55 Pct
Baltic 16.89 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.16 Pct
West_Med 12.98 Pct
West_Asian 12.10 Pct
East_Med 12.27 Pct
Red_Sea 2.10 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.59 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.45 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

https://i.imgur.com/ZuQ0cGg.png

The first Bosniak could really be an islamized Croat. The 2 from Sandzak are like Montenegrins and weird looking fellow, they are like Serbs but less Slavic and more Italian pulled.
the one from Prijepolje is the weirdest, he is like a full Bulgarian. post his oracle if you have it.

[Pribislav]

HungryLion (Krajina/Banija Serb).

K13 Eurogenes

1 Baltic 33.25
2 North_Atlantic 28.71
3 West_Med 15.85
4 East_Med 12.81
5 West_Asian 6.84
6 Red_Sea 1.71
7 Siberian 0.67
8 Oceanian 0.15


His K36 map
https://i.imgur.com/mJ4SS9v.png


More details about his results https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?277615-Krajina-Serb-(from-Banija)-results&p=5887747&viewfull=1#post5887747

HungryLion's position on K15 map.
https://i.imgur.com/v6uFZFT.png

[Insuperable]

He does get some south Asian populations in K23b, but not Roma.

http://imgur.com/a/4fyLO9I

92-94 % Croat + 6-7% Jatt/Burusho/Tiwari/Gujarati

I can't find his results atm, but Dr. Bosniensis scores 2% South Asian on Eurogenes k13 (and probably this translates to other calculators) with 23andme file, and 0% on AncestryDNA's one with the exception he has higher West Asian and East Med on AncestryDNA. Or vice versa, I can't remember atm.


exotic enough to score completely different in oracle than any other Croat. it's hard to interpret the raw result without the oracle.
i have a Croat kit whith some South Asian admixture, he still has normal Med+Slav results in oracles. you have to be really strongly admixed to score like this in oracle.

I look at both the actual results and Oracle. What about Irish, Dutch, Swedish etc results we have seen over the years who get 95% Irish +5% Abkhazian, 95% Dutch + 5% Burusho etc? Now I am supposed believe they have that ancestry. There are many factors why that is.

[vbnetkhio]

I can't find his results atm, but Dr. Bosniensis scores 2% South Asian on Eurogenes k13 (and probably this translates to other calculators) with 23andme file, and 0% on AncestryDNA's one with the exception he has higher West Asian and East Med on AncestryDNA. Or vice versa, I can't remember atm.



I look at both the actual results and Oracle. What about Irish, Dutch, Swedish etc results we have seen over the years who get 95% Irish +5% Abkhazian, 95% Dutch + 5% Burusho etc? Now I am supposed believe they have that ancestry. There are many factors why that is.

i don't believe that Croat has Abkhazian admixture either. I just wanted to point out Herzegovina Croats and Szekelys both plot near Moldova and get such results. (90% Croatian/Hungarian/Ukrainian+something exotic). i'm not sure yet how to interpret it. but there is obviously something specific for their regions.

[Insuperable]

i don't believe that Croat has Abkhazian admixture either. I just wanted to point out Herzegovina Croats and Szekelys both plot near Moldova and get such results. (90% Croatian/Hungarian/Ukrainian+something exotic). i'm not sure yet how to interpret it. but there is obviously something specific for their regions.

Ok whatever.

I found this person unless it wasn't already plotted.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?284686-Croat-(Western-Herzegovina)-gedmatch

And this person, but he posted only K13 results
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O6rqXS1wog

GEDmatch results
1 Baltic 35.47
2 North_Atlantic 24.8
3 West_Med 16.21
4 East_Med 13.44
5 West_Asian 3.43
6 Red_Sea 3.06
7 Amerindian 1.39
8 Oceanian 0.78
9 East_Asian 0.63
10 South_Asian 0.58
11 Sub-Saharan 0.21

These two look kinda similar

[Mingle]

HungryLion's position on K15 map.
https://i.imgur.com/v6uFZFT.pngWhat is his ancestry?

Is he the most atypical Serb you have ever seen?

[Pribislav]

What is his ancestry?

Is he the most atypical Serb you have ever seen?

He is from Banija https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banovina_(region)

Most atypical Serb from what I have seen is number 21 (woman)
https://i.imgur.com/p5pUkeN.png

^^
She has many autosomal matches with Ashekanazy Jews, and that means she is Jewish influenced. HungryLion is full Serb unlike that woman.

[Mingle]

He is from Banija https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banovina_(region)

Most atypical Serb from what I have seen is number 21 (woman)
https://i.imgur.com/p5pUkeN.png

^^
She has many autosomal matches with Ashekanazy Jews, and that means she is Jewish influenced. HungryLion is full Serb unlike that woman.

I meant most atypical full Serb.

[vbnetkhio]

HungryLion's position on K15 map.
https://i.imgur.com/v6uFZFT.png

he is on my pca too.

a Croat which also plots near Austria gets this:
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% North_Italian @ 2.435414

and HungryLion gets this:
Using 2 populations appromaximation:
1 50% German (Germany) + 50% Serbian (Serbia) @2.143989

he isn't 50% obviously, other 2 Serbs from Banija are also NW shifted, he isn't that far from them

[Jana]

What is his ancestry?

Is he the most atypical Serb you have ever seen?

He is from Central Croatia and obviously local admixed.

[vbnetkhio]

He is from Central Croatia and obviously local admixed.

he isn't pulled towards Croats at all. he plots west of Croats. he is on my pca on the previous page, you'll notice him easily

[vbnetkhio]

https://i.imgur.com/DsSVsnY.png
these 2 are from HungryLion's region

[Jana]

he isn't pulled towards Croats at all. he plots west of Croats. he is on my pca on the previous page, you'll notice him easily

He is heavy German admixed, and Germans settled in that region.

[Aspirin]

...

Can you put this Moldavian user on this map too?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?299002-South-Slavic-amp-neighbours-Eurogenes-results&p=6211129&viewfull=1#post6211129

[Jana]

https://i.imgur.com/DsSVsnY.png
these 2 are from HungryLion's region

Those are representative Banija Serbs, NW shifted but still inside main Serbian cluster. He is total outlier on the other hand.

[vbnetkhio]

Can you put this Moldavian user on this map too?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?299002-South-Slavic-amp-neighbours-Eurogenes-results&p=6211129&viewfull=1#post6211129

https://i.imgur.com/Nl2Gxz8.png

[vbnetkhio]

https://i.imgur.com/falI69r.png
Zmey Gorynich, WeirdlookingFellow, and the Moldovan sample aren't that far from each other. But they are far from the K15 Moldovan average, which obviously has some Ukrainian or Hungarian influence in it

[Carpatz]

https://i.imgur.com/falI69r.png
Zmey Gorynich, WeirdlookingFellow, and the Moldovan sample aren't that far from each other. But they are far from the K15 Moldovan average, which obviously has some Ukrainian or Hungarian influence in it

I've been saying for a long time that the Moldovan reference has Russian/Ukrainian samples to it. Add me to the PCA

North_Sea 14.21
Atlantic 16.88
Baltic 20.32
Eastern_Euro 10.62
West_Med 13.7
West_Asian 7
East_Med 11.56
Red_Sea 3.78
South_Asian 0.33
Southeast_Asian 0.6
Siberian 1
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[vbnetkhio]

I've been saying for a long time that the Moldovan reference has Russian/Ukrainian samples to it. Add me to the PCA

North_Sea 14.21
Atlantic 16.88
Baltic 20.32
Eastern_Euro 10.62
West_Med 13.7
West_Asian 7
East_Med 11.56
Red_Sea 3.78
South_Asian 0.33
Southeast_Asian 0.6
Siberian 1
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

https://i.imgur.com/YPnMizv.png

you are from Moldova too?

[Carpatz]

https://i.imgur.com/YPnMizv.png

you are from Moldova too?

Nope. I'm from NW Romania.

[Aspirin]

https://i.imgur.com/Nl2Gxz8.png

This is accurate?

[Aspirin]

Lol, I smell some bullshit here.

These are his coordinates.

https://sun9-40.userapi.com/c855524/v855524022/dcaec/fqwmDyAiCAE.jpg

This is where he plots on the map.

https://sun9-21.userapi.com/c855524/v855524022/dcae5/E-kW3f4Aric.jpg

[Jana]

Zmey seems misplaced, but it was not intentional I am quite sure. He is not southern shifted at all.

[Aspirin]

Double post.

[Pribislav]

He is heavy German admixed, and Germans settled in that region.

Germans were never inhabitants of Banija like they lives in Vojvodina, Baranja, Slavonia and part of Slovenia. Only some German officers served on Banija in Military Frontier. HungryLion is I2-PH908 which is most common Serbian paternal line, nothing to do with Germans. There was no German women on Banija, even if there was some by accident they did not married for Serbs.

[Pribislav]

double

[Jana]

Germans were never inhabitants of Banija like they lived in Vojvodina, Baranja, Slavonia and part of Slovenia. Only some German officers served on Banija in Military Frontier. HungryLion is I2-PH908 which is most common Serbian paternal line, nothing to do with Germans. There was no German women on Banija, even if there was some by accident they did not married for Serbs.

You don't know his ancestors.
He can be modeled half Serb half German and he is completely outside of Serbian cluster.

Spare me stupid purity stories and nationalism in genetic discussions. He and you are similar to Stears who claim he has no Moldovan and Vlach blood, but clusters with them.

Please. Either he is mixed or Serbs are social construct who can plot like anything.

[Pribislav]

...

[Pribislav]

You don't know his ancestors.
He can be modeled half Serb half German and he is completely outside of Serbian cluster.

Spare me stupid purity stories and nationalism in genetic discussions. He and you are similar to Stears who claim he has no Moldovan and Vlach blood, but clusters with them.

Please. Either he is mixed or Serbs are social construct who can plot like anything.

If he have German ancestors he would be know for that. Books of born and married on Banija exist since late 17th century.

His NW shifted result is probably medieval influence. Banija Serbs partly originated from central Bosnia, and Saxon miners lived there in the middle age. I have seen result of Bosniak from central Bosnia, he ploting similar western as HungryLion but more southern.

[Ford]

the one from Prijepolje is the weirdest, he is like a full Bulgarian. post his oracle if you have it.

K13
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 5.17
2 Serbian 5.87
3 Bulgarian 5.9
4 Moldavian 7.36
5 Croatian 10.69
6 Hungarian 12.2
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.7
8 Austrian 15.77
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.72
10 East_German 17.1
11 South_Polish 17.89
12 Ukrainian 18.04
13 North_Italian 20.07
14 Tuscan 20.43
15 Southwest_Russian 20.82
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.82
17 West_German 21.05
18 Italian_Abruzzo 21.09
19 Polish 21.25
20 Central_Greek 21.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.2% Bulgarian + 43.8% Moldavian @ 2.14
2 83.6% Moldavian + 16.4% Cyprian @ 2.17
3 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.28
4 75.2% Moldavian + 24.8% Central_Greek @ 2.29
5 82.5% Bulgarian + 17.5% Erzya @ 2.4
6 75.5% Bulgarian + 24.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.44
7 82.2% Bulgarian + 17.8% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.53
8 79.5% Bulgarian + 20.5% Southwest_Russian @ 2.56
9 78.8% Moldavian + 21.2% South_Italian @ 2.57
10 81.1% Bulgarian + 18.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.58
11 77.1% Bulgarian + 22.9% Ukrainian @ 2.61
12 84.3% Bulgarian + 15.7% Lithuanian @ 2.65
13 76.7% Moldavian + 23.3% East_Sicilian @ 2.65
14 54.2% Ukrainian + 45.8% Central_Greek @ 2.68
15 77.6% Croatian + 22.4% Cyprian @ 2.69
16 67.9% Moldavian + 32.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.71
17 86.2% Moldavian + 13.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.76
18 56.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 43.8% Central_Greek @ 2.77
19 80.2% Bulgarian + 19.8% Polish @ 2.77
20 66.5% Bulgarian + 33.5% Croatian @ 2.78

K15
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.99
2 Serbian 6.19
3 Bulgarian 6.63
4 Moldavian 7.22
5 Croatian 10.22
6 Hungarian 11.54
7 Austrian 12.65
8 Greek_Thessaly 13.25
9 Greek 14.36
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.56
11 East_German 15.89
12 South_Polish 16.3
13 Ukrainian 16.4
14 Tuscan 17.83
15 North_Italian 18.24
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.47
17 Ashkenazi 18.74
18 Italian_Abruzzo 18.78
19 Polish 19.03
20 Russian_Smolensk 19.13

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74% Moldavian + 26% Central_Greek @ 2.82
2 83% Moldavian + 17% Cyprian @ 2.85
3 77.7% Moldavian + 22.3% South_Italian @ 3.11
4 75.4% Moldavian + 24.6% East_Sicilian @ 3.13
5 68.4% Moldavian + 31.6% Greek @ 3.2
6 74.1% Moldavian + 25.9% Ashkenazi @ 3.23
7 85% Moldavian + 15% Armenian @ 3.29
8 74.2% Moldavian + 25.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.3
9 84.1% Moldavian + 15.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.33
10 85.1% Moldavian + 14.9% Assyrian @ 3.34
11 85.1% Moldavian + 14.9% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.34
12 81.1% Moldavian + 18.9% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.4
13 86.1% Moldavian + 13.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.41
14 86.1% Moldavian + 13.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.41
15 66.8% Moldavian + 33.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.43
16 80.7% Moldavian + 19.3% Italian_Jewish @ 3.43
17 85.8% Moldavian + 14.2% Samaritan @ 3.53
18 52.9% Bulgarian + 47.1% Moldavian @ 3.56
19 82% Moldavian + 18% Turkish @ 3.56
20 81.6% Moldavian + 18.4% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.58

[Aspirin]

Zmey seems misplaced, but it was not intentional I am quite sure. He is not southern shifted at all.

He is misplaced pretty much, I don't see any resemblance of his results with WeirdlookingFellow for example. His results are similar to Bosnian Serbs ones.

[ph2ter]

If he have German ancestors he would be know for that. Books of born and married on Banija exist since late 17th century.

His NW shifted result is probably medieval influence. Banija Serbs partly originated from central Bosnia, and Saxon miners lived there in the middle age. I have seen result of Bosniak from central Bosnia, he ploting similar western as HungryLion but more southern.

Something like that would be completely diluted already in few generations. His ancestors did not live in isolation for centuries, but were migrating to Banija and there lived several centuries and mixed there. If he is normal than all Banija Serbs would plot around him.

[Leto]

You don't know his ancestors.
He can be modeled half Serb half German and he is completely outside of Serbian cluster.

Spare me stupid purity stories and nationalism in genetic discussions. He and you are similar to Stears who claim he has no Moldovan and Vlach blood, but clusters with them.

Please. Either he is mixed or Serbs are social construct who can plot like anything.
You can't accept the fact Serbs and Croats are not much different from each other. One and the same YUGOSLAV nation! xD

[Jana]

You can't accept the fact Serbs and Croats are not much different from each other. One and the same YUGOSLAV nation! xD

Sorry but no. All my family is closer to Hungarians and Moldovans than to Serbs. We all get Hungary as no.1

[vbnetkhio]

---

[Leto]

Sorry but no. All my family is closer to Hungarians and Moldovans than to Serbs. We all get Hungary as no.1
Racially Serbs and Croats fit in each other's countries. Minute genetic differences are not so important.

[Pribislav]

Something like that would be completely diluted already in few generations. His ancestors did not live in isolation for centuries, but were migrating to Banija and there lived several centuries and mixed there. If he is normal than all Banija Serbs would plot around him.

Obviusly he is more NW shifted than average Banija Serbs. Other two Banija Serbs are more SE than HungryLion but still they are more NW than Serbian average. You must look HL result in the context of Banija Serbs, not Serbs from Serbia or Montenegrins.
HL has 62% Baltic+NA on K13, and Serbian average is about 55.5%. HL has for about 6.5% more Baltic+NA than Serbian average, and that is nothing extreme.

This is average K13 of 23 Serbs from various regions
https://forum.krstarica.com/attachments/prosecni-eurogenes-k13-rezultat-1-png.534211/


Most of Banija Serbs settled to Banija from NW Bosnia (mostly Potkozarje) in late 17th century. In NW Bosnia they arrived from SE in 16th century (Herzegovina, central Bosnia, Raška). Probably when they arrived in NW Bosnia in 16th century they absorbed some people who live there before them.

[vbnetkhio]

If he have German ancestors he would be know for that. Books of born and married on Banija exist since late 17th century.

His NW shifted result is probably medieval influence. Banija Serbs partly originated from central Bosnia, and Saxon miners lived there in the middle age. I have seen result of Bosniak from central Bosnia, he ploting similar western as HungryLion but more southern.

depends how close German matches he gets, and where they're from.(all Serbs get some distant German matches)
he should upload to MyHeritage, there is a lot of Germans tested there. and try out Tolan recent ancestors and k71. they are not perfect, but they should show some German signal.

[Moje ime]

Tolan recent ancestors and k71.

Where to find this?

[vbnetkhio]

Where to find this?

http://dnagenics.com/admixture-studio/

[Jana]

Racially Serbs and Croats fit in each other's countries. Minute genetic differences are not so important.

Racially both fit in most of east europe and balkans.
Not a big deal. Croats and Serbs both have their own look.

[Jana]

Paper trail <<<< Genetic test

Lot of illegitimate children born in the past. And there was no DNA tests to prove who their father was.

Hrvoje YDNA good example of that.

[vbnetkhio]

Lol, I smell some bullshit here.

These are his coordinates.

https://sun9-40.userapi.com/c855524/v855524022/dcaec/fqwmDyAiCAE.jpg

This is where he plots on the map.

https://sun9-21.userapi.com/c855524/v855524022/dcae5/E-kW3f4Aric.jpg

it aint bulshit.. i just typed 255 instead of 225. lol
here
https://i.imgur.com/zVUwoej.png

[WeirdLookingFellow]

It would be interesting to find more Moldovans from the Central-West area, near Neamț area. This is where they took samples from a study that looked for differences between Romanian Moldovans and Moldova Rep. and found around 45% I2a1 Y-DNA. Like Aspirin said and based on vbnetkhio's map, we might see more Moldovans like me plotting to the west, signalling more Vlach ancestry.

[Insuperable]

.....

Where is this Croat from and what are his K13 and K15? thnx
https://i.postimg.cc/zX4SRn9R/2Y0aBth.png

[Jana]

It would be interesting to find more Moldovans from the Central-West area, near Neamț area. This is where they took samples from a study that looked for differences between Romanian Moldovans and Moldova Rep. and found around 45% I2a1 Y-DNA. Like Aspirin said and based on vbnetkhio's map, we might see more Moldovans like me plotting to the west, signalling more Vlach ancestry.

I2din is not Vlach ancestry but Slavic.
Herzegovina Croats are 70% I2 din and have most Slavic shift in this PCA among South Slavs.

I am tired of stupid stereotypes connecting I2 with Vlachs and R1a with Slavs. Native Balkan markers are eastern R1b, E-V13 and various types of J2.

[Aspirin]

It would be interesting to find more Moldovans from the Central-West area, near Neamț area. This is where they took samples from a study that looked for differences between Romanian Moldovans and Moldova Rep. and found around 45% I2a1 Y-DNA. Like Aspirin said and based on vbnetkhio's map, we might see more Moldovans like me plotting to the west, signalling more Vlach ancestry.

Haplogroups don't have any connection with your autosomal results, the most North shifted Moldavians from Romania what I saw have J and E haplogroups.

[vbnetkhio]

Where is this Croat from and what are his K13 and K15? thnx
https://i.postimg.cc/zX4SRn9R/2Y0aBth.png

Central Croat

https://i.imgur.com/pZS3Ioe.png

North_Sea 19,45
Atlantic 12,04
Baltic 22,73
Eastern_Euro 16,69
West_Med 11,28
West_Asian 8,04
East_Med 6,56
Red_Sea 0,87
South_Asian 1,13
Southeast_Asian 0
Siberian 1,21
Amerindian 0
Oceanian 0
Northeast_African 0
Sub-Saharan 0

[Aspirin]

it aint bulshit.. i just typed 255 instead of 225. lol
here
https://i.imgur.com/zVUwoej.png

I think he will be a good example of average unmixed Moldavian, since he don't have any East Slavic (Ukrainian/Russian) or Balkan (Bulgarian/Gagauz) ancestry.

[vbnetkhio]

It would be interesting to find more Moldovans from the Central-West area, near Neamț area. This is where they took samples from a study that looked for differences between Romanian Moldovans and Moldova Rep. and found around 45% I2a1 Y-DNA. Like Aspirin said and based on vbnetkhio's map, we might see more Moldovans like me plotting to the west, signalling more Vlach ancestry.

what do you mean by Vlach ancestry? Vlach can mean many things. for now it seems you are similar to Montenegrins and Sandzak Muslims
do you get any matches in the Western Balkans?

[WeirdLookingFellow]

what do you mean by Vlach ancestry? Vlach can mean many things. for now it seems you are similar to Montenegrins and Sandzak Muslims
do you get any matches in the Western Balkans?

At this stage considering the results not much, but a paleo-Balkan latinised people that did not receive significant east Slavic admixture.

To answer Aspirin, I didn't check the MtDNA diversity. If the diversity is low and only one Y-Dna amounts to almost 50% you may be able to talk about an isolated population that is homogenous, so it might say a few things about the Vlachs, maybe. This is just a supposition.

[vbnetkhio]

a paleo-Balkan latinised people that did not receive significant east Slavic admixture.
that's the main component in every Romanian's ancestry. Romanians are very south plotting for their geographic location.

[Pribislav]

I2din is not Vlach ancestry but Slavic.
Herzegovina Croats are 70% I2 din and have most Slavic shift in this PCA among South Slavs.

I am tired of stupid stereotypes connecting I2 with Vlachs and R1a with Slavs. Native Balkan markers are eastern R1b, E-V13 and various types of J2.

I2a-Din was most dominant in vlach social caste in Dinaric alps, they were mostly of Slavic origin. Vlach caste was product of medieval Serbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebri
Catholic vlachs were Bunjevci.

[Insuperable]

Bosnian Croats in yellow based on last map . Not sure about one case where letters overlap.

https://i.postimg.cc/63VNmybp/ppppp.png

[vbnetkhio]

Bosnian Croats in yellow based on last map . Not sure about one case where letters overlap.

https://i.postimg.cc/63VNmybp/ppppp.png

those 2 with kit numbers starting with T are probably Herzegovians too. Cumansky posted them in this thread

if you divide Bosnians From Herzegovians, Bosnians mostly overlap with Serbs, Herzegovinians are all north of Serbs

the overlaps are:
Croatian Croat, Bosnian Croat and Max Soldo
Croatian Croat and Bosnian Croat
Herzegovina Croat and Southern_Cro_2 who is from Dalmatia and Herzegovina

[Jana]

I2a-Din was most dominant in vlach social caste in Dinaric alps, they were mostly of Slavic origin. Vlach caste was product of medieval Serbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebri
Catholic vlachs were Bunjevci.

Nope.

[Jana]

those 2 with kit numbers starting with T are probably Herzegovians too. Cumansky posted them in this thread

if you divide Bosnians From Herzegovians, Bosnians mostly overlap with Serbs, Herzegovinians are all north of Serbs

Probably because Croatian population is very homogenous in Herzegovina, they mixed less with Serbs than Bosnian Croats did.

Hrvoje has some ancestry from NE Bosnia and he plots south of me (his father is Slovenian and mother mix of north and Bosnian Croat with some Czech). His Bosnian side is probably pulling him south. He mentioned this possibility himself.

[Pribislav]

K13 of Serb from Smederevo, his y dna is J2b-M205 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smederevo

# Population percent
1 Baltic 32.64
2 North_Atlantic 25.7
3 East_Med 16.03
4 West_Med 14.53
5 West_Asian 6.26
6 Red_Sea 3.67
7 Siberian 1.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.86
2 Moldavian 6.43
3 Croatian 7.22
4 Hungarian 8.43
5 Romanian 9.13

Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58% Belorussian + 42% West_Sicilian @ 2.03
2 58.6% Estonin_Polish + 41.4% West_Sicilian @ 2.33
3 67.7% Polish + 32.3% Italian_Jewish @ 2.47
4 62.5% Polish + 37.5% Ashkenazi @ 2.48
5 52.5% Lithuanian + 47.5% West_Sicilian @ 2.6

[Jana]

At this stage considering the results not much, but a paleo-Balkan latinised people that did not receive significant east Slavic admixture.

To answer Aspirin, I didn't check the MtDNA diversity. If the diversity is low and only one Y-Dna amounts to almost 50% you may be able to talk about an isolated population that is homogenous, so it might say a few things about the Vlachs, maybe. This is just a supposition.

Again I2 din has nothing to do with Latinised Balkanites, it's a Slavic marker. And SW Slavs have much more of it than Romanians do as well as much more autosomally northern ancestry.

What is not clear here ?

[Pribislav]

Again I2 din has nothing to do with Latinised Balkanites, it's a Slavic marker. And SW Slavs have much more of it than Romanians do as well as much more autosomally northern ancestry.

What is not clear here ?

I2a-Din has a strong Vlachic vibe! :cool:

[Pribislav]

Vojvodinian Serb (his father is from Banat and his mother is from Syrmia). His y dna is I2-PH908.

https://i.postimg.cc/dtYpqW7S/Screenshoot-2018-6-11-https-www-gedmatch-com-6.png
https://i.postimg.cc/9XTsH3f7/Screenshot-2018-6-11-https-www-gedmatch-com-1.png

[Jana]

I2a-Din has a strong Vlachic vibe! :cool:

Both my sides are I2 din and we are definitelly not Vlach.

[Pribislav]

Both my sides are I2 din and we are definitelly not Vlach.

If your father has value 14-19 on marker than you wuz Serbian vlachs Bunjevci. :)

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Again I2 din has nothing to do with Latinised Balkanites, it's a Slavic marker. And SW Slavs have much more of it than Romanians do as well as much more autosomally northern ancestry.

What is not clear here ?

Stop being tired (ref. to last post) since I did not state directly that I2a1 is Vlach. I said that due to the high concentration (and then later added low mtDNA diversity) we might be talking about a population that seems less influenced by Slavs from the NE of Romania. My only supposition was that they might be scoring in a similar area as I am.

Regardless, it doesn's explain very well why I2a1 raises significantly in Moldova in comparison to south Romania, at most it might help with the theory that I also found on this forum relating to the Balkans as the original Slav breeding ground.

[Jana]

If your father has value 14-19 on marker than you wuz Serbian vlachs Bunjevci. :)

Your disgusting propaganda is just miserable and shitty, since Herzegivina Croats don't cluster with Serbs at all.

Mind your own business and leave other nations alone.

[CommonSense]

Some more results...

User Ogi24 from the Brda region of Montenegro (Piperi and Vasojevići)

Admix Results (sorted):



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 17.64
2 North_Sea 16.9
3 West_Med 15.77
4 Baltic 15.68
5 Atlantic 13.66
6 Eastern_Euro 11.6
7 West_Asian 6.73
8 Red_Sea 2.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 6.39
2 Bulgarian 6.61
3 Serbian 7.1
4 Greek_Thessaly 9.76
5 Greek 11.43
6 Moldavian 11.52
7 Hungarian 13.3
8 Croatian 13.38
9 Tuscan 13.79
10 Austrian 14.16
11 North_Italian 14.32
12 Italian_Abruzzo 16.01
13 Ashkenazi 16.07
14 Central_Greek 16.43
15 West_Sicilian 16.8
16 East_Sicilian 17.22
17 East_German 17.48
18 Spanish_Galicia 18.29
19 Portuguese 18.64
20 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.78

User Bosniensis, Bosniak from Bihać (also 1/4 Gorani)

Eurogenes K15 Gedmatch:

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 19.45
2 Eastern_Euro 14.43
3 North_Sea 14.33
4 Atlantic 13.92
5 East_Med 13.37
6 West_Med 12.52
7 West_Asian 9.68
8 Red_Sea 1.85
9 Sub-Saharan 0.42
10 Southeast_Asian 0.04
11 South_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 5.57
2 Bulgarian 6.45
3 Serbian 6.53
4 Moldavian 6.79
5 Croatian 8.85
6 Hungarian 11.31
7 Austrian 11.86
8 Greek_Thessaly 14.15
9 Greek 14.45

Serb from Glamoč, Bosnia:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 22.08
2 Atlantic 17.79
3 North_Sea 15.14
4 West_Med 15.1
5 West_Asian 9.98
6 East_Med 9.35
7 Eastern_Euro 8.77
8 Red_Sea 1.52
9 Oceanian 0.15
10 Siberian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 7.49
2 Bulgarian 8.39
3 Croatian 8.54
4 Moldavian 8.55
5 Serbian 8.73
6 Austrian 10.68
7 Hungarian 10.75
8 East_German 14.15
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.41
10 South_Polish 14.83
11 Ukrainian 15.53
12 Greek_Thessaly 16.04
13 Greek 16.45
14 North_Italian 17.09
15 Polish 17.45
16 Russian_Smolensk 17.5
17 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.23
18 Tuscan 18.37
19 French 18.82
20 Southwest_Russian 18.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% Bulgarian + 49.3% Croatian @ 5.12
2 70.1% Croatian + 29.9% Greek @ 5.38
3 68.4% Bulgarian + 31.6% South_Polish @ 5.45
4 67.7% Bulgarian + 32.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.48
5 79% Croatian + 21% South_Italian @ 5.48
6 73% Croatian + 27% Tuscan @ 5.58
7 70% Croatian + 30% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.59
8 72.6% Bulgarian + 27.4% Polish @ 5.6
9 69.9% Bulgarian + 30.1% Ukrainian @ 5.62
10 76.8% Croatian + 23.2% Central_Greek @ 5.63
11 77.7% Croatian + 22.3% East_Sicilian @ 5.69
12 78.3% Bulgarian + 21.7% Lithuanian @ 5.71
13 56.7% Romanian + 43.3% Croatian @ 5.71
14 85.4% Croatian + 14.6% Sardinian @ 5.71
15 56% Tuscan + 44% Lithuanian @ 5.77
16 73.1% Bulgarian + 26.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 5.78
17 76.5% Croatian + 23.5% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.83
18 76% Bulgarian + 24% Estonian_Polish @ 5.85
19 75.9% Bulgarian + 24.1% Belorussian @ 5.85
20 78.2% Croatian + 21.8% West_Sicilian @ 5.98

Serb/Montenegrin from Podgorica:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 17.22
2 Baltic 17.16
3 East_Med 15.5
4 North_Sea 13.93
5 West_Asian 11.69
6 Eastern_Euro 11.37
7 Atlantic 10.03
8 Red_Sea 1.95
9 Siberian 0.78
10 Southeast_Asian 0.36
11 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 6.35
2 Romanian 7.17
3 Greek_Thessaly 9.61
4 Serbian 10.07
5 Greek 11.21
6 Moldavian 11.61
7 Croatian 14.54
8 Hungarian 15.71
9 Tuscan 15.78
10 Central_Greek 15.98
11 Ashkenazi 15.98
12 Italian_Abruzzo 16.62
13 Austrian 17.07
14 East_Sicilian 17.11
15 North_Italian 17.19
16 West_Sicilian 18.3
17 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.52
18 South_Italian 19.58
19 East_German 20.14
20 Ukrainian 20.4

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.6% Greek_Thessaly + 24.4% Erzya @ 4.5
2 55.8% Greek_Thessaly + 44.2% Moldavian @ 4.54
3 72.8% Greek_Thessaly + 27.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.78
4 73.7% Greek_Thessaly + 26.3% Southwest_Russian @ 4.93
5 70.6% Greek_Thessaly + 29.4% Ukrainian @ 4.98
6 51.1% Greek + 48.9% Moldavian @ 5.03
7 59.2% Moldavian + 40.8% Central_Greek @ 5.04
8 75.6% Greek_Thessaly + 24.4% Kargopol_Russian @ 5.06
9 75.5% Greek_Thessaly + 24.5% Estonian_Polish @ 5.13
10 73.3% Moldavian + 26.7% Cyprian @ 5.17
11 64.5% Moldavian + 35.5% South_Italian @ 5.17
12 69.9% Greek_Thessaly + 30.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.19
13 77.7% Greek_Thessaly + 22.3% Lithuanian @ 5.24
14 73.9% Greek_Thessaly + 26.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 5.26
15 75.8% Greek_Thessaly + 24.2% Belorussian @ 5.35
16 62.9% Greek_Thessaly + 37.1% Croatian @ 5.37
17 71.5% Greek_Thessaly + 28.5% South_Polish @ 5.37
18 61.3% Moldavian + 38.7% East_Sicilian @ 5.43
19 56.7% Central_Greek + 43.3% Ukrainian @ 5.49
20 74.4% Greek_Thessaly + 25.6% Polish @ 5.55

Serb/Montenegrin from Berane (Vasojevići):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 22.16
2 Baltic 17.05
3 West_Med 16.03
4 East_Med 14.13
5 West_Asian 10.98
6 Eastern_Euro 9.42
7 Atlantic 8.82
8 Southeast_Asian 0.8
9 South_Asian 0.32
10 Siberian 0.18
11 Northeast_African 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 9.15
2 Serbian 10
3 Bulgarian 10.59
4 Moldavian 11.12
5 Greek_Thessaly 12.48
6 Hungarian 12.73
7 Croatian 14.22
8 Austrian 16.09
9 Greek 16.16
10 East_German 17.05
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.7
12 Tuscan 17.86
13 North_Italian 18.04
14 Ukrainian 18.64
15 West_German 18.73
16 South_Polish 19.21
17 Central_Greek 19.5
18 Italian_Abruzzo 19.52
19 Ashkenazi 19.59
20 French 19.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.2% Greek_Thessaly + 37.8% Ukrainian @ 6.62
2 60.9% Greek_Thessaly + 39.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.71
3 54.4% Moldavian + 45.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.87
4 50.7% Greek_Thessaly + 49.3% Hungarian @ 6.89
5 70.8% Greek_Thessaly + 29.2% Estonian @ 7.12
6 68.9% Greek_Thessaly + 31.1% Finnish @ 7.23
7 63.7% Greek_Thessaly + 36.3% South_Polish @ 7.26
8 70.4% Greek_Thessaly + 29.6% North_Swedish @ 7.69
9 68% Greek_Thessaly + 32% Polish @ 7.7
10 60.8% Greek_Thessaly + 39.2% East_German @ 7.75
11 71.1% Greek_Thessaly + 28.9% East_Finnish @ 7.8
12 69.8% Greek_Thessaly + 30.2% Southwest_Finnish @ 7.83
13 55% Greek_Thessaly + 45% Croatian @ 7.9
14 69.5% Moldavian + 30.5% Central_Greek @ 7.92
15 71.1% Greek_Thessaly + 28.9% Swedish @ 7.96
16 51.4% Ukrainian + 48.6% Central_Greek @ 7.96
17 73.4% Greek_Thessaly + 26.6% Lithuanian @ 7.97
18 73.7% Moldavian + 26.3% South_Italian @ 8.01
19 53% Ukrainian_Lviv + 47% Central_Greek @ 8.03
20 64.3% Hungarian + 35.7% Central_Greek @ 8.06

[Pribislav]

Your disgusting propaganda is just miserable and shitty, since Herzegivina Croats don't cluster with Serbs at all.

Mind your own business and leave other nations alone.

Do ćaća have 14-19 value?

Who cares from clustering of Herzegovinian Croatians, they are swarthy as fuck. SE Serbs are symbol of blondism for meddish Škutori.
I doubt they are closer to Zagorci than to Herzegovinian Serbs.

[Pribislav]

Do ćaća have 14-19 value?

Who cares from clustering of Herzegovinian Croatians, they are swarthy as fuck. SE Serbs are symbol of blondism for meddish Škutori.

Northern ploting is "cure" for complexes of woggish people btw.

[CommonSense]

Serb/Montenegrin from Plav and Cetinje:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 18.33
2 Atlantic 18.25
3 East_Med 17.34
4 North_Sea 17.2
5 West_Med 14.72
6 Eastern_Euro 9.03
7 West_Asian 3.78
8 Siberian 0.77
9 Red_Sea 0.51
10 Oceanian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 8.18
2 Romanian 8.24
3 Bulgarian 8.56
4 Austrian 12.05
5 Hungarian 12.23
6 Moldavian 12.36
7 Croatian 12.49
8 Greek_Thessaly 13.12
9 Greek 13.74
10 North_Italian 13.9
11 Tuscan 14.8
12 East_German 15.95
13 Spanish_Galicia 17.19
14 Portuguese 17.29
15 Spanish_Cataluna 17.37
16 French 17.43
17 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.01
18 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.02
19 Italian_Abruzzo 18.14
20 Spanish_Extremadura 18.29

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.1% Tuscan + 34.9% Lithuanian @ 5.25
2 62.1% Tuscan + 37.9% Belorussian @ 5.71
3 50.6% West_Sicilian + 49.4% Ukrainian @ 5.84
4 58.4% West_Sicilian + 41.6% Estonian @ 5.94
5 64.2% Tuscan + 35.8% Estonian @ 5.97
6 56.7% Tuscan + 43.3% Ukrainian @ 5.99
7 62.4% Tuscan + 37.6% Estonian_Polish @ 6
8 59.6% West_Sicilian + 40.4% Lithuanian @ 6.02
9 50% West_Sicilian + 50% South_Polish @ 6.07
10 53.7% Hungarian + 46.3% Greek @ 6.08
11 53.1% West_Sicilian + 46.9% Polish @ 6.09
12 50.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 49.5% West_Sicilian @ 6.14
13 59.3% Tuscan + 40.7% Polish @ 6.18
14 56.2% Tuscan + 43.8% South_Polish @ 6.23
15 60.2% Tuscan + 39.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 6.23
16 55.8% Tuscan + 44.2% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 6.25
17 61.5% Tuscan + 38.5% Southwest_Russian @ 6.27
18 63.6% Greek + 36.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 6.29
19 56.3% West_Sicilian + 43.7% Belorussian @ 6.37
20 61.6% Croatian + 38.4% West_Sicilian @ 6.37

Croat from Zadar:

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 21.35
2 North_Sea 19.27
3 East_Med 14.2
4 West_Med 13.74
5 Baltic 12
6 Eastern_Euro 10.67
7 West_Asian 7.74
8 South_Asian 0.56
9 Amerindian 0.26
10 Red_Sea 0.15
11 Southeast_Asian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.93
2 Romanian 7.67
3 Bulgarian 9.33
4 Austrian 9.81
5 North_Italian 11.02
6 Hungarian 11.69
7 French 12.44
8 Moldavian 12.96
9 Tuscan 13.04
10 Croatian 13.12
11 Spanish_Cataluna 13.39
12 East_German 13.41
13 Portuguese 13.68
14 South_Dutch 13.71
15 Spanish_Galicia 13.79
16 Greek_Thessaly 14.01
17 Greek 14.48
18 Spanish_Extremadura 14.49
19 Spanish_Murcia 14.57
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.7% Greek + 41.3% Danish @ 3.05
2 51.4% South_Dutch + 48.6% Greek @ 3.18
3 75.4% Serbian + 24.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.23
4 55.4% Greek + 44.6% North_German @ 3.34
5 74.4% Serbian + 25.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.35
6 57.2% East_German + 42.8% West_Sicilian @ 3.38
7 72.8% Serbian + 27.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.43
8 76.4% Serbian + 23.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.44
9 57.8% Greek + 42.2% Southeast_English @ 3.44
10 60.6% Greek + 39.4% West_Scottish @ 3.45
11 57.8% Austrian + 42.2% Tuscan @ 3.52
12 68.7% Serbian + 31.3% North_Italian @ 3.54
13 59.9% Greek + 40.1% Irish @ 3.56
14 79.3% Serbian + 20.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.56
15 77.7% Serbian + 22.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.56
16 59.4% Greek + 40.6% North_Dutch @ 3.58
17 57.2% Greek + 42.8% Southwest_English @ 3.67
18 61.3% Greek + 38.7% Norwegian @ 3.74
19 75.4% Serbian + 24.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.78
20 75.7% Serbian + 24.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.84

Muslim/Bosniak from Vrbica (Sandžak, Montenegro):

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 18.05
2 North_Sea 16.28
3 Atlantic 15.88
4 West_Med 14.18
5 East_Med 14.14
6 Eastern_Euro 10.71
7 West_Asian 8.46
8 Red_Sea 1.98
9 Amerindian 0.31
10 Siberian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 3.57
2 Serbian 4.89
3 Bulgarian 4.91
4 Moldavian 8.55
5 Croatian 9.86
6 Hungarian 10.56
7 Austrian 10.91
8 Greek_Thessaly 11.92
9 Greek 12.86
10 East_German 14.82
11 North_Italian 14.89
12 Tuscan 15.14
13 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.91
14 South_Polish 16.47
15 Ukrainian 16.83
16 Italian_Abruzzo 17.48
17 French 17.88
18 Spanish_Galicia 18.24
19 Ashkenazi 18.28
20 Central_Greek 18.31

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.9% Croatian + 45.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.75
2 69.2% Croatian + 30.8% South_Italian @ 2.14
3 61.8% Greek_Thessaly + 38.2% Polish @ 2.21
4 65.5% Croatian + 34.5% Central_Greek @ 2.32
5 70.4% Bulgarian + 29.6% Hungarian @ 2.32
6 55.1% Hungarian + 44.9% Greek @ 2.34
7 56.9% Greek + 43.1% Ukrainian @ 2.36
8 55.5% Greek + 44.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.38
9 56.9% Croatian + 43.1% Greek @ 2.42
10 56.4% Ukrainian + 43.6% South_Italian @ 2.5
11 58.3% Greek_Thessaly + 41.7% South_Polish @ 2.51
12 66.6% Croatian + 33.4% East_Sicilian @ 2.52
13 56.4% Greek + 43.6% South_Polish @ 2.53
14 57% South_Polish + 43% South_Italian @ 2.54
15 72.8% Croatian + 27.2% Italian_Jewish @ 2.62
16 62.4% Greek_Thessaly + 37.6% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.69
17 80.2% Bulgarian + 19.8% Ukrainian @ 2.7
18 78.1% Bulgarian + 21.9% East_German @ 2.72
19 65% Greek_Thessaly + 35% Estonian_Polish @ 2.75
20 52.8% Ukrainian + 47.2% West_Sicilian @ 2.77

[Jana]

Do ćaća have 14-19 value?

Who cares from clustering of Herzegovinian Croatians, they are swarthy as fuck. SE Serbs are symbol of blondism for meddish Škutori.
I doubt they are closer to Zagorci than to Herzegovinian Serbs.

No they are not. They would be among lightest Serb groups. They are swarhty for our standards and we are significantly lighter than you.

It is just your complexes and hatred for them similar like that bitch Rvanal.

My mother collague is southern Serb, short and swarthy as fuck, looks like Gypsy (but he is not)

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Serb/Montenegrin from Plav and Cetinje:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 18.33
2 Atlantic 18.25
3 East_Med 17.34
4 North_Sea 17.2
5 West_Med 14.72
6 Eastern_Euro 9.03
7 West_Asian 3.78
8 Siberian 0.77
9 Red_Sea 0.51
10 Oceanian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 8.18
2 Romanian 8.24
3 Bulgarian 8.56
4 Austrian 12.05
5 Hungarian 12.23
6 Moldavian 12.36
7 Croatian 12.49
8 Greek_Thessaly 13.12
9 Greek 13.74


This first Serb/Montenegrin scores very very close to me:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% Tuscan + 35.7% Lithuanian @ 4.72
2 56.8% Hungarian + 43.2% Greek @ 5.11
3 55.3% Tuscan + 44.7% Ukrainian @ 5.21
4 63.1% Tuscan + 36.9% Estonian @ 5.24
5 61.3% Tuscan + 38.7% Belorussian @ 5.29
6 54.1% Tuscan + 45.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.33
7 51% Ukrainian + 49% West_Sicilian @ 5.37
8 54.8% Tuscan + 45.2% South_Polish @ 5.45
9 64.8% Hungarian + 35.2% West_Sicilian @ 5.5
10 52.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 47.7% West_Sicilian @ 5.5
11 73% Hungarian

[Jana]

Northern ploting is "cure" for complexes of woggish people btw.

No, northern plotting goes in hand with lighter pigmentation of group level in this region, individual cases don't matter.

[Pribislav]

Croatian from Dalmatia K15. :coffee:

1 Atlantic 18.07
2 North_Sea 17.49
3 Baltic 16.83
4 Eastern_Euro 15.4
5 West_Med 14.52
6 East_Med 7.67
7 West_Asian 6.54
8 Red_Sea 2.07
9 Oceania 0.66
10 Amerindian 0.59

1 Serbian 6.7
2 Croatian 7.64
3 Moldavian 7.78
4 Austrian 8.75
5 Hungarian 9.44
6 Romanian 9.34
7 East_German 12.16
8 Bulgarian 12.89
9 South_Polisg 14.82
10 Ukrainian_Kviv 15

More details https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?270759-Dalmatian-Croat-K15-Gedmatch-result

[ixulescu]

Northern ploting is "cure" for complexes of woggish people btw.

Also, there's no such thing as "northern plotting" on a PCA chart.

PCA axes are not cardinal directions.

[CommonSense]

Another Dalmatian Croat (from my match list):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 22.77
2 North_Sea 16.75
3 Atlantic 14.16
4 Eastern_Euro 13.68
5 West_Med 10.69
6 East_Med 10.46
7 West_Asian 7.35
8 Red_Sea 4.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 4.79
2 Croatian 5.76
3 Serbian 7.85
4 Hungarian 8.52
5 Romanian 8.6
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.16
7 Austrian 10.23
8 Bulgarian 10.41
9 South_Polish 11.06
10 Ukrainian 11.31
11 East_German 13.56
12 Russian_Smolensk 13.62
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.62
14 Polish 13.65
15 Southwest_Russian 14.24
16 Belorussian 15.64
17 Estonian_Polish 15.8
18 Greek_Thessaly 17.71
19 Kargopol_Russian 17.73
20 Estonian 18.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.2% Belorussian + 46.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.27
2 52.9% Estonian_Polish + 47.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.35
3 76.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 23.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.56
4 56.7% Russian_Smolensk + 43.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.6
5 51.5% Greek_Thessaly + 48.5% Lithuanian @ 2.64
6 65.4% Ukrainian_Lviv + 34.6% Greek @ 2.66
7 76.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 23.4% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.77
8 78.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 21.9% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.83
9 56.9% Lithuanian + 43.1% East_Sicilian @ 2.84
10 79.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 20.9% Cyprian @ 2.87
11 71.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 28.4% East_Sicilian @ 2.88
12 74.2% Ukrainian + 25.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.89
13 90.9% Croatian + 9.1% Saudi @ 2.9
14 73.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 26.2% South_Italian @ 2.94
15 91.4% Croatian + 8.6% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.94
16 71% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29% Central_Greek @ 2.95
17 77.6% South_Polish + 22.4% Cyprian @ 2.96
18 50.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 49.3% Bulgarian @ 2.98
19 70.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.8% Ashkenazi @ 2.99
20 56.2% Lithuanian + 43.8% Central_Greek @ 2.99

[Blondie]

Very interesting but croats and moldavians are very close to each other many times, it can be slavic + med dual ancestry.

[Pribislav]

No they are not. They would be among lightest Serb groups. They are swarhty for our standards and we are significantly lighter than you.

It is just your complexes and hatred for them similar like that bitch Rvanal.

My mother collague is southern Serb, short and swarthy as fuck, looks like Gypsy (but he is not)

You confuse southern Serbs with Gypsies. Most of Gypsies in Serbia live in southern Serbia.
In reality southern Serbs are not dark as many people imagine them including many Serbs.

Herzegovinian Croatians are visible darker than Bosnian Serbs. People like Dragan Đilas, Marko Marin, Nemanja Bilbija, Branko Ćopić, Goran Kostić, Ratko Mladić, Ognjen Kuzmić, Branislav Krunić (all are Bosnian Serbs, except last one who is Herzegovinian Serb) etc. can be found among faumos Herzegovinian Croatians who looks usualy like Zdravko Mamić and Milan Bandić.
Herzegovinian Croatians are most meddish and darkest group in BiH.

[Jana]

You confuse southern Serbs with Gypsies. Most of Gypsies in Serbia live in southern Serbia.
In reality southern Serbs are not dark as many people imagine them including many Serbs.

Herzegovinia Croatians are visible darker than Bosnian Serbs. People like Dragan Đilas, Marko Marin, Nemanja Bilbija, Branko Ćopić, Goran Kostić, Ratko Mladić, Ognjen Kuzmić, Branislav Krunić (all are Bosnian Serbs, except last one who is Herzegovinian Serb) etc. can be found among faumos Herzegovinian Croatians who looks usualy like Zdravko Mamić and Milan Bandić.
Herzegovinian Croatians are most meddish and darkest group in BiH.

Absolutely not. My mother collague is well known lawyer from Leskovac, not a Gypsy.

I can post literally tons and tons of swarthy, Turkish looking Bosnian Serbs but I don't care and neither do other Croats.

Also most of Bosniak footballers from Podrinje (so called light part of Bosnia) look like Greeks lmao.

I know many fair people from Herzegovina. And pigmentation studies in BiH found Serbs the darkest.

Deal with it.

I also like propaganda of that stupid bitch how eastern Herzegovina is so light and slavic compared to west Herzegovina and how that ugly lesbian Prime Minister who is 3/4 Serb looks Croat (no she doesn't at all).

We are simply lighter than Serbs and every data says the same. Your national team looks wog compared to ours.

[Pribislav]

Absolutely not. My mother collague is well known lawyer from Leskovac, not a Gypsy.

I can post literally tons and tons of swarthy, Turkish looking Bosnian Serbs but I don't care and neither do other Croats.

Also most of Bosniak footballers from Podrinje (so called light part of Bosnia) look like Greeks lmao.

I know many fair people from Herzegovina. And pigmentation studies in BiH found Serbs the darkest.

Deal with it.

I also like propaganda of that stupid bitch how eastern Herzegovina is so light amd slavic compared to west Herzegovina and how that ugly lesbian Prime Minister who is 3/4 Serb looks Croat (no she doesn't at all).

We are simply lighter than Serbs and every data says the same. Your national team looks wog compared to ours.

Is there any Herzegovinian Croatian girl who look like this Bosnian Serb girl?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83BqSQnHTKU


Is there any Herzegovinian Croatian who look like this Bosnian Serb?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Dragan_%C4%90ilas_2013.jpg

I don't give a fuck for Coon, he wrote that Montenegrins are lighter than Serbs. :picard1:
I have seen H. Croatians children from some elementary school and most of them are dark haired.

[Jana]

Is there any Herzegovinian Croatian girl who look like this Bosnian Serb girl?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83BqSQnHTKU


Is there any Herzegovinian Croatian who look like this Bosnian Serb?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Dragan_%C4%90ilas_2013.jpg

I don't give a fuck for Coon, he wrote that Montenegrins are lighter than Serbs. :picard1:
I have seen H. Croatians children from some elementary school and most of them are dark haired.

Just like Serbs. Ofcourse there are rofl
I like Serb nordicism against Croats.

It is similar to Croatian Nordicism against Slovenians or Hungarian Nordicism against Slovaks ahah.

[Pribislav]

Just like Serbs. Ofcourse there are rofl
I like Serb nordicism against Croats.

It is similar to Croatian Nordicism against Slovenians or Hungarian Nordicism against Slovaks ahah.

In Podrinje can be found most red/reddish haired people in whole BiH, among both Serbs and Bosniaks.

[Jana]

In Podrinje can be found most red/reddish haired people in whole BiH, among both Serbs and Bosniaks.

Because some Saxon miners assimilated with locals.

[Pribislav]

Because some Saxon miners assimilated with locals.

Yes.

There is village Sase near Srebrenica, name came from Saxon miners who lived in area in the middle age.

Girl from video up is from Skelani near Srebrenica (Podrinje).

[Leto]

@vbnetkhio (I can't memorize your nickname)
Add this one for reference. Title it as 'Pure Slav', since one can't get more Slavic than that :cool::thumb001:

K13
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 46.57
2 North_Atlantic 26.4
3 West_Med 10.05
4 East_Med 6.93
5 West_Asian 6.8
6 Siberian 1.57
7 Amerindian 0.9
8 Oceanian 0.47
9 Sub-Saharan 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 2.23
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 3.36
3 Ukrainian 3.9
4 Russian_Smolensk 4.39
5 Estonian_Polish 4.67

K15
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.66
2 Eastern_Euro 21.56
3 North_Sea 19.7
4 Atlantic 13.84
5 West_Med 5.5
6 West_Asian 5.04
7 East_Med 2.65
8 Amerindian 0.53
9 Oceanian 0.28
10 Sub-Saharan 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 2.99
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 3.04
3 Russian_Smolensk 4.49
4 Belorussian 4.72
5 Estonian_Polish 4.95

[vbnetkhio]

Do ćaća have 14-19 value?

Who cares from clustering of Herzegovinian Croatians, they are swarthy as fuck. SE Serbs are symbol of blondism for meddish Škutori.
I doubt they are closer to Zagorci than to Herzegovinian Serbs.


No, northern plotting goes in hand with lighter pigmentation of group level in this region, individual cases don't matter.

they have 71% i2 and 12% r1a. 83% together.
one i posted gets 90% Ukrainian + 10% Cyprian in oracle. they one of the most Slavic South Slavs, but their pre-Slavic population was something exotic and different from the rest of Balkans. that's why they look exotic.

https://i.imgur.com/w5z0ebo.png

[vbnetkhio]

@vbnetkhio (I can't memorize your nickname)
Add this one for reference. Title it as 'Pure Slav', since one can't get more Slavic than that :cool::thumb001:

K13
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 46.57
2 North_Atlantic 26.4
3 West_Med 10.05
4 East_Med 6.93
5 West_Asian 6.8
6 Siberian 1.57
7 Amerindian 0.9
8 Oceanian 0.47
9 Sub-Saharan 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 2.23
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 3.36
3 Ukrainian 3.9
4 Russian_Smolensk 4.39
5 Estonian_Polish 4.67

K15
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.66
2 Eastern_Euro 21.56
3 North_Sea 19.7
4 Atlantic 13.84
5 West_Med 5.5
6 West_Asian 5.04
7 East_Med 2.65
8 Amerindian 0.53
9 Oceanian 0.28
10 Sub-Saharan 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 2.99
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 3.04
3 Russian_Smolensk 4.49
4 Belorussian 4.72
5 Estonian_Polish 4.95

You think proto Slavs were like Southwest Russians, Cossacks? weren't they more like Belgorod? or maybe Belarus or Ukraine?

[Jana]

they have 71% i2 and 12% r1a. 83% together.
one i posted gets 90% Ukrainian + 10% Cyprian in oracle. they one of the most Slavic South Slavs, but their pre-Slavic population was something exotic and different from the rest of Balkans. that's why they look exotic.

https://i.imgur.com/w5z0ebo.png

Interesting.

[Jana]

Yes.

There is village Sase near Srebrenica, name came from Saxon miners who lived in area in the middle age.

Girl from video up is from Skelani near Srebrenica (Podrinje).

Saxons settled to SW Serbia (Raška) and Kosovo too.

[Leto]

You think proto Slavs were like Southwest Russians, Cossacks? weren't they more like Belgorod? or maybe Belarus or Ukraine?
Belgorod is a Southwestern Russian city, lol. And that person is not a Cossack (at least I don't know it).
"proto" doesn't exist. That guy is a real living person. Don't get carried away by that "proto" autism. Whether he is 90% "proto-Slavic" or 95% doesn't really matter.

[vbnetkhio]

Belgorod is a Southwestern Russian city, lol. And this person is not a Cossack (at least I don't know it).

i think in eurogenes Ukrainian_Belgorod is the average for the Belgorod region of Russia, and Southwest Russia is Krasnodar or Rostov

[Pribislav]

Saxons settled to SW Serbia (Raška) and Kosovo too.

From "Serbian dna project"

Ćoćić - I2>I-A427 (Gornji Vratari/Aleksandrovac)
Aleksić - I2>I-A427 (Borčane/Leposavić)
Gvozdenović - I2>I-A427 (Koporiće/Leposavić)
Gregović - I2>I-A427 (Petrovac/Budva)
Deljanin - I2>I-A427 (Toplica)
Đorđević - I2>I-A427 (Leposavić)
Jelenić - I2>I-A427 (Lešak/Leposavić)
Kadić - I2>I-A427 (Lešak/Leposavić)
Mišković - I2>I-A427 (Graničane/Leposavić)
Fuštić - I2-PH908 (Brskovo/Mojkovac)
Bučevac - R1b-U106 (Sarajevo)
Jovanović - R1b-U106 (Bajina Bašta)
Klješčik - R1b-U106 (Prijepolje)
Mladenović - R1b-U106 (Smederevo)
Stanković - R1b-U106 (Ranilug/Kosovska Kamenica)
Antonić - R1b-U106 (Korenita/Loznica)

^^
Descendants of Saxon miners by paternal line.

Fuštić is PH908, but he has a match in Germany and celebrate Mratindan (Serbian Orthodox families with this Slava were once Catholics). He is from Brskovo, that was one of the most important mining in medieval Serbia where Saxon were present.

[Zmey Gorynych]

It would be interesting to find more Moldovans from the Central-West area, near Neamț area. This is where they took samples from a study that looked for differences between Romanian Moldovans and Moldova Rep. and found around 45% I2a1 Y-DNA. Like Aspirin said and based on vbnetkhio's map, we might see more Moldovans like me plotting to the west, signalling more Vlach ancestry.
Yes, until more people get tested we wont know what is the difference if there is a significant difference to speak of. You plot somewhere between serbs and north Italians which is interesting for a person with moldavian romanian ancestry only?

It would be interesting to find out whether the Moldovan average from the republic is just modovan. I say it's possible that it could be moldovan only. We need more samples for that though. Anyone knows anything about Romania16. Or is it just a case of knowing his/her kit number?

Ask Nurzat (ancestry in Vaslui and Suceava) for his result. He should plot west of me - somewhere between serbs and croats.

[Leto]

i think in eurogenes Ukrainian_Belgorod is the average for the Belgorod region of Russia, and Southwest Russia is Krasnodar or Rostov
Southwest Russia is Kursk, I think. Anyway, both averages are almost identical. Southwestern and Southern Russia have no significant differences in genetics. Eastern Ukraine is not much different either.

[vbnetkhio]

Fuštić is PH908, but he has a match in Germany

He is a Serbianized Germanized Sorb

[Pribislav]

He is a Serbianized Germanized Sorb

Probably yes. Among Saxon miners who arrived in Serbia and Bosnia in 13th century there was probably some germanized Sorbs.

[Aspirin]

Ask Nurzat (ancestry in Vaslui and Suceava) for his result. He should plot west of me - somewhere between serbs and croats.

Nurzat is not representative, he is mixed.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Nurzat is not representative, he is mixed.
Yes he has minor Slavic ancestry, but he's mainly romanian moldovan and judging by his result he's only west shifted of republic moldovans. If not for something else he should participate just for the sake of it.

[CommonSense]

Found this one. 3/4 Herzegovina & 1/4 Bosnia Serb:

Population
North_Sea 12.20 Pct
Atlantic 17.24 Pct
Baltic 21.81 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.26 Pct
West_Med 14.75 Pct
West_Asian 6.75 Pct
East_Med 12.19 Pct
Red_Sea 2.79 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[CommonSense]

Mother of the person above, 1/2 Herzegovina, 1/2 Bosnia Seb:


Population
North_Sea 11.53 Pct
Atlantic 20.76 Pct
Baltic 23.82 Pct
Eastern_Euro 13.31 Pct
West_Med 13.74 Pct
West_Asian 2.53 Pct
East_Med 12.98 Pct
Red_Sea 1.32 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Aspirin]

Yes he has minor Slavic ancestry, but he's mainly romanian moldovan and judging by his result he's only west shifted of republic moldovans. If not for something else he should participate just for the sake of it.

Minor? lol, that guy is mixed af. He have Boyko, Polish Goral, and Romanian Moldavian origins, plus he speculated to have some Germanic ancestry. Ironically he don't plot too Northern, he is similar to you, and I think this is because of Balkan influence on genetics of his Slavic ancestors who was mostly Carpathian Slavs.

[Mingle]

Yes, until more people get tested we wont know what is the difference if there is a significant difference to speak of. You plot somewhere between serbs and north Italians which is interesting for a person with moldavian romanian ancestry only?

He has Ukrainian written on his profile under "Ancestry".


Yes he has minor Slavic ancestry, but he's mainly romanian moldovan and judging by his result he's only west shifted of republic moldovans. If not for something else he should participate just for the sake of it.

Not just minor, but half. He said he's half-Rusyn and half-Moldovan (from Romania). I think Rusyns are heavily mixed with Vlachs, so that's why he's not too far from the Moldovan average.

[Aspirin]

He has Ukrainian written on his profile under "Ancestry".

His Ukrainian ancestry is just noise.

[Mingle]

it aint bulshit.. i just typed 255 instead of 225. lol
here
https://i.imgur.com/zVUwoej.png

The map is a bit hard to read. Can you maybe provide a legend to the side or something?

Also, is this map based only on K13 or what?

[Dušan]

Also, is this map based only on K13 or what?

K15

[Pribislav]

Serbian woman from Vojvodina K13.

1 Baltic 29.38
2 North_Atlantic 26.74
3 West_Med 17.49
4 East_Med 12.82
5 West_Asian 10.1
6 South_Asian 0.86
7 Amerindian 0.8
8 Northeast_African 0.66
9 Oceanian 0.65
10 East_Asian 0.5

1 Serbian 4.85
2 Moldavian 6.29
3 Romanian 8.01
4 Croatian 8.52
5 Hungarian 8.76
6 Bulgarian 10.7
7 Austrian 12.31
8 East_German 13.7
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.05
10 South_Polish 16.57

[Leto]

IrisSelene

Population
North_Atlantic 21.24 Pct
Baltic 31.64 Pct
West_Med 14.66 Pct
West_Asian 14.77 Pct
East_Med 14.81 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 2.13 Pct
Amerindian 0.75 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Population
North_Sea 15.31 Pct
Atlantic 13.58 Pct
Baltic 21.58 Pct
Eastern_Euro 13.01 Pct
West_Med 8.99 Pct
West_Asian 14.85 Pct
East_Med 11.14 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.27 Pct
Amerindian 0.28 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Jana]

If your father has value 14-19 on marker than you wuz Serbian vlachs Bunjevci. :)

Which marker, DYS385 ?

No, he has 14-15

[Pribislav]

Serbian woman from Vojvodina K13.

1 Baltic 29.38
2 North_Atlantic 26.74
3 West_Med 17.49
4 East_Med 12.82
5 West_Asian 10.1
6 South_Asian 0.86
7 Amerindian 0.8
8 Northeast_African 0.66
9 Oceanian 0.65
10 East_Asian 0.5

1 Serbian 4.85
2 Moldavian 6.29
3 Romanian 8.01
4 Croatian 8.52
5 Hungarian 8.76
6 Bulgarian 10.7
7 Austrian 12.31
8 East_German 13.7
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.05
10 South_Polish 16.57

Her K12 dodecad.

North_European 40.67
Atlantic_Med 25.96
Caucasus 21.17
Gedrosia 5.99
Southwest_Asian 3.05
Northwest_African 1.72
Southeast_Asian 0.7
East_Asian 0.49
South_Asian 0.24

[Insuperable]

they have 71% i2 and 12% r1a. 83% together.
one i posted gets 90% Ukrainian + 10% Cyprian in oracle. they one of the most Slavic South Slavs, but their pre-Slavic population was something exotic and different from the rest of Balkans. that's why they look exotic.

https://i.imgur.com/w5z0ebo.png

Are you talking about this person?

T063442 Croatian T063442

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.41
2 North_Sea 19.6
3 Eastern_Euro 16.76
4 East_Med 10.82
5 Atlantic 10.79
6 West_Med 9.98
7 West_Asian 4.87
8 Red_Sea 1.4
9 Northeast_African 0.89
10 Siberian 0.28
11 Southeast_Asian 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 6.14
2 Croatian 7.54
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.23
4 Ukrainian 8.73
5 Hungarian 9.19
6 South_Polish 9.7
7 Serbian 11.12
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.86
9 Polish 12.11
10 Southwest_Russian 12.17
11 Russian_Smolensk 12.53
12 Romanian 12.71
13 Austrian 12.76
14 Belorussian 13.85
15 Estonian_Polish 14.08
16 East_German 14.48
17 Bulgarian 14.52
18 Kargopol_Russian 15.18
19 Estonian 15.81
20 Erzya 16.31

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.6% Ukrainian + 15.4% Samaritan @ 3.15
2 85% Ukrainian + 15% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.25
3 85% Ukrainian + 15% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.35
4 82.4% Ukrainian + 17.6% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.38
5 83.2% Ukrainian + 16.8% Cyprian @ 3.47
6 84.7% Ukrainian + 15.3% Palestinian @ 3.59
7 84.3% Ukrainian + 15.7% Jordanian @ 3.72
8 82.9% Ukrainian + 17.1% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.92
9 81.7% Ukrainian + 18.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.94
10 84% Ukrainian + 16% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.95
11 84.1% Ukrainian + 15.9% Syrian @ 4
12 81.4% Ukrainian + 18.6% Italian_Jewish @ 4.03
13 77.1% Ukrainian + 22.9% Ashkenazi @ 4.07
14 87.6% Ukrainian + 12.4% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.07
15 85.8% Ukrainian + 14.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.12
16 86.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.7% Samaritan @ 4.18
17 84.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 15.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.21
18 86.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.23
19 72.7% Ukrainian + 27.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.23
20 86.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.24

There is nothing exotic about that person for a South Slav person.

The red dot is where person plots. You looked at the Oracle and draw a line from Ukrainian to Cyprus because that is what Oracle came up with. But things like that happen all the time. People don't exactly come out from factory lines (random genetic recombination) so that we all need to be governed by random reference groups. That is why people get results they do.

https://i.postimg.cc/kXTnwBDy/K15V4.png

Why not Belgorod + Tuscan or Ukrainian+Greek? (I understand this kind of thinking is not right too, that is drawing straight lines right through dot, but you get the point) Oh yeah right, Oracle told you otherwise.

[Insuperable]

Interesting.

NOT

[Insuperable]

Northern ploting is "cure" for complexes of woggish people btw.

Says the guy who talks about pigmentation most the time. Based on your classification threads one would think you come from Poland or smth.


You confuse southern Serbs with Gypsies. Most of Gypsies in Serbia live in southern Serbia.
In reality southern Serbs are not dark as many people imagine them including many Serbs.

Herzegovinian Croatians are visible darker than Bosnian Serbs. People like Dragan Đilas, Marko Marin, Nemanja Bilbija, Branko Ćopić, Goran Kostić, Ratko Mladić, Ognjen Kuzmić, Branislav Krunić (all are Bosnian Serbs, except last one who is Herzegovinian Serb) etc. can be found among faumos Herzegovinian Croatians who looks usualy like Zdravko Mamić and Milan Bandić.
Herzegovinian Croatians are most meddish and darkest group in BiH.

Swarthy and proud bruh.

Everytime I meet random Serb I am like:
https://media.giphy.com/media/yidUzHnBk32Um9aMMw/giphy.gif

When I do meet some light haired and/or light eyed person I contemplate in wonder and keep saying to myself: this person has to be at least 1% Hyperborean, this person has to be at least 1% Serbian.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Minor? lol, that guy is mixed af. He have Boyko, Polish Goral, and Romanian Moldavian origins, plus he speculated to have some Germanic ancestry. Ironically he don't plot too Northern, he is similar to you, and I think this is because of Balkan influence on genetics of his Slavic ancestors who was mostly Carpathian Slavs.
That's why I said minor. Although he is half slav he's not far at all from moldavians.

[Aspirin]

That's why I said minor. Although he is half slav he's not far at all from moldavians.

Still he can't be counted as Moldavian because he is only half, doesn't matter his autosomal results. Same can be saying about other individuals like Seya, or Daos777 from RM.

[vbnetkhio]

Are you talking about this person?


There is nothing exotic about that person for a South Slav person.

The red dot is where person plots. You looked at the Oracle and draw a line from Ukrainian to Cyprus because that is what Oracle came up with. But things like that happen all the time. People don't exactly come out from factory lines (random genetic recombination) so that we all need to be governed by random reference groups. That is why people get results they do.

https://i.postimg.cc/kXTnwBDy/K15V4.png

Why not Belgorod + Tuscan or Ukrainian+Greek? (I understand this kind of thinking is not right too, that is drawing straight lines right through dot, but you get the point) Oh yeah right, Oracle told you otherwise.


what's a normal South Slavic result? here's some random South Slavs from the past few pages

1 Baltic 18.33
2 Atlantic 18.25
3 East_Med 17.34

1 Atlantic 21.35
2 North_Sea 19.27
3 East_Med 14.2

1 Baltic 18.05
2 North_Sea 16.28
3 Atlantic 15.88

they all get some Baltic, some East Med ... it's all the same, all people are the same, all results are normal?
yes, of course i prefer the oracle to the pca. for example, that Serb who plots near the Austrian point gets Serb+German in oracle.
he could get Polish/Ukrainian + Italian/Spanish/French like all the others who plot there, but the oracle detects specific proportions which make him Serb+German instead.
he didn't come from a factory line of course, that's a very simplified model of his ancestry, but it shows the general direction.

this is what the creator of k15 says about the oracles:
Eurogenes EUtestV2 K15 I just tried it myself, and have say that the 4-Ancestors Oracle results were impressive. In other words, they were very accurate based on what I know about my recent ancestry. On the other hand, I'd say the default Oracle was picking up more ancient gene flows.

did he just look at his admixture results and plotting, and say "that looks pretty Polish to me"? no, he went straight to the oracle.

this Croat fits best as Ukraine + Levant. the fact that he plots west of that line on PCA also means something, it means he also has some small additional influence which pulls him west from that mix.

[vbnetkhio]

update

https://i.imgur.com/feoGQtT.png

https://i.imgur.com/PukiTPL.png

https://i.imgur.com/nMiEb4G.png

https://i.imgur.com/GFKxhYW.png

https://i.imgur.com/WFns2cW.png

https://i.imgur.com/psLe9rW.png

https://i.imgur.com/mdYJUka.png

https://i.imgur.com/j58BEBJ.png

[Dick]

Nice work dude

[xripkan]

update

https://i.imgur.com/feoGQtT.png

https://i.imgur.com/PukiTPL.png

https://i.imgur.com/nMiEb4G.png

https://i.imgur.com/GFKxhYW.png

https://i.imgur.com/WFns2cW.png

https://i.imgur.com/psLe9rW.png

https://i.imgur.com/mdYJUka.png

https://i.imgur.com/j58BEBJ.png
Could you plot me on this?
North_Sea 10.35 Pct
Atlantic 15.19 Pct
Baltic 9.99 Pct
Eastern_Euro 5.57 Pct
West_Med 15.94 Pct
West_Asian 13.58 Pct
East_Med 24.37 Pct
Red_Sea 3.87 Pct
South_Asian 0.05 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.19 Pct
Siberian 0.38 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.52 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[vbnetkhio]

Could you plot me on this?
North_Sea 10.35 Pct
Atlantic 15.19 Pct
Baltic 9.99 Pct
Eastern_Euro 5.57 Pct
West_Med 15.94 Pct
West_Asian 13.58 Pct
East_Med 24.37 Pct
Red_Sea 3.87 Pct
South_Asian 0.05 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.19 Pct
Siberian 0.38 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.52 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

https://i.imgur.com/0wla12M.png

https://i.imgur.com/okVP2Qo.png

[Rgvgjhvv]

This is very cool

[Kaspias]

I plot together with Turkish_Istanbul lol

[vbnetkhio]

I plot together with Turkish_Istanbul lol

this is the sample
Z211567 Istanbul25095

others
Z050256 Istanbul15781
Z627145 Istanbul17778
Z356894 Istanbul19185
Z026788 Istanbul19708
Z360007 Istanbul19810
Z641567 Istanbul20010
Z961635 Istanbul20040
Z167307 Istanbul25081
Z650044 Istanbul25098

[Kaspias]

this is the sample
Z211567 Istanbul25095

others
Z050256 Istanbul15781
Z627145 Istanbul17778
Z356894 Istanbul19185
Z026788 Istanbul19708
Z360007 Istanbul19810
Z641567 Istanbul20010
Z961635 Istanbul20040
Z167307 Istanbul25081
Z650044 Istanbul25098

How funny even not one of them are native to the Istanbul

Z211567 -> From Drama or Kavala.
Z050256 -> From Thrace or Thessaloniki
Z627145 -> From Central-Eastern Anatolia
Z356894 -> From Central-Western Anatolia
Z026788 -> From Central Anatolia
Z360007 -> From Central-Eastern Anatolia
Z641567 -> From Eastern Anatolia
Z961635 -> From Eastern Anatolia
Z167307 -> From Western Anatolia
Z650044 -> From Thessaloniki

[karakartal]

https://i.imgur.com/0wla12M.png

https://i.imgur.com/okVP2Qo.png

could you please plot me and my father? i want to know our place in your plotting. thanks.

me;
Population
North_Sea 14.26 Pct
Atlantic 6.70 Pct
Baltic 8.65 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.99 Pct
West_Med 12.52 Pct
West_Asian 16.20 Pct
East_Med 21.95 Pct
Red_Sea 4.14 Pct
South_Asian 1.13 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.51 Pct
Siberian 3.61 Pct
Amerindian 0.30 Pct
Oceanian 1.04 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

my father;
Population
North_Sea 14.85 Pct
Atlantic 3.86 Pct
Baltic 15.74 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.82 Pct
West_Med 13.03 Pct
West_Asian 14.01 Pct
East_Med 21.92 Pct
Red_Sea 1.76 Pct
South_Asian 3.08 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.38 Pct
Siberian 1.79 Pct
Amerindian 0.76 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[vbnetkhio]

How funny even not one of them are native to the Istanbul

Z211567 -> From Drama or Kavala.
Z050256 -> From Thrace or Thessaloniki
Z627145 -> From Central-Eastern Anatolia
Z356894 -> From Central-Western Anatolia
Z026788 -> From Central Anatolia
Z360007 -> From Central-Eastern Anatolia
Z641567 -> From Eastern Anatolia
Z961635 -> From Eastern Anatolia
Z167307 -> From Western Anatolia
Z650044 -> From Thessaloniki

you concluded from their results in calculators?

Z050256 is weird. Z650044 plots together with Macedonian Greeks, Z050256 is far from them and gets weird results in k13 oracle. i need more kits from these regions(northern parts of Greece and Western Turkey), maybe he's normal for his region.

[vbnetkhio]

could you please plot me and my father? i want to know our place in your plotting. thanks.

me;
Population
North_Sea 14.26 Pct
Atlantic 6.70 Pct
Baltic 8.65 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.99 Pct
West_Med 12.52 Pct
West_Asian 16.20 Pct
East_Med 21.95 Pct
Red_Sea 4.14 Pct
South_Asian 1.13 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.51 Pct
Siberian 3.61 Pct
Amerindian 0.30 Pct
Oceanian 1.04 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

my father;
Population
North_Sea 14.85 Pct
Atlantic 3.86 Pct
Baltic 15.74 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.82 Pct
West_Med 13.03 Pct
West_Asian 14.01 Pct
East_Med 21.92 Pct
Red_Sea 1.76 Pct
South_Asian 3.08 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.38 Pct
Siberian 1.79 Pct
Amerindian 0.76 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

you plot in Istanbul :D

https://i.imgur.com/XBcJW0A.png

[Jana]

Looking at this, I am shifted towards Czechs.

[vbnetkhio]

Looking at this, I am shifted towards Czechs.

you didn't test at the same company/chip version as your parents?

[Jana]

you didn't test at the same company/chip version as your parents?

Correct. I tested with 23andme (V4 chip) and my parents with FTDNA (quite recently). Their raw data contains significantly less SNPs than mine.

[Pribislav]

Looking at this, I am shifted towards Czechs.

You are closer to HungryLion than to your father. loool

[Jana]

You are closer to HungryLion than to your father. loool

And to Hrvoje too. He plots almost like my sibling.

[vbnetkhio]

You are closer to HungryLion than to your father. loool

her parents have low snp count in k15, their plotting is imprecise. in reality they probably plot like croat_cro196 and croat_bhcb12

[Kaspias]

you concluded from their results in calculators?

Z050256 is weird. Z650044 plots together with Macedonian Greeks, Z050256 is far from them and gets weird results in k13 oracle. i need more kits from these regions(northern parts of Greece and Western Turkey), maybe he's normal for his region.

Yes.

Turk_Edirne


Population
North_Sea 7.06 Pct
Atlantic 9.03 Pct
Baltic 12.95 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.77 Pct
West_Med 9.24 Pct
West_Asian 21.19 Pct
East_Med 17.58 Pct
Red_Sea 3.91 Pct
South_Asian 1.27 Pct
Southeast_Asian 3.95 Pct
Siberian 4.32 Pct
Amerindian 0.50 Pct
Oceanian 0.24 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Razgrad

Population
North_Sea 7.78 Pct
Atlantic 13.20 Pct
Baltic 13.18 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.59 Pct
West_Med 10.18 Pct
West_Asian 16.46 Pct
East_Med 18.27 Pct
Red_Sea 1.79 Pct
South_Asian 0.15 Pct
Southeast_Asian 2.92 Pct
Siberian 3.27 Pct
Amerindian 0.07 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.11 Pct
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Drama


Population
North_Sea 14.23 Pct
Atlantic 9.32 Pct
Baltic 12.12 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.06 Pct
West_Med 11.57 Pct
West_Asian 15.14 Pct
East_Med 18.38 Pct
Red_Sea 1.57 Pct
South_Asian 1.43 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.77 Pct
Siberian 1.93 Pct
Amerindian 0.07 Pct
Oceanian 0.14 Pct
Northeast_African 0.08 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.21 Pct


Turk_Kardzhali

Population
North_Sea 9.03 Pct
Atlantic 9.59 Pct
Baltic 12.59 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.94 Pct
West_Med 7.20 Pct
West_Asian 16.56 Pct
East_Med 18.85 Pct
Red_Sea 3.27 Pct
South_Asian 4.29 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.99 Pct
Siberian 6.34 Pct
Amerindian 0.30 Pct
Oceanian 0.67 Pct
Northeast_African 0.37 Pct
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Varna

Population
North_Sea 8.97 Pct
Atlantic 11.09 Pct
Baltic 18.14 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.58 Pct
West_Med 13.86 Pct
West_Asian 13.68 Pct
East_Med 17.97 Pct
Red_Sea 2.56 Pct
South_Asian 1.61 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.05 Pct
Siberian 3.39 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.12 Pct


Turk_Silistra

Population
North_Sea 10.61 Pct
Atlantic 13.35 Pct
Baltic 13.83 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.68 Pct
West_Med 10.59 Pct
West_Asian 14.67 Pct
East_Med 13.19 Pct
Red_Sea 4.47 Pct
South_Asian 2.83 Pct
Southeast_Asian 2.36 Pct
Siberian 3.25 Pct
Amerindian 0.17 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -



Turk_Kavala

Population
North_Sea 21.40 Pct
Atlantic 12.55 Pct
Baltic 13.52 Pct
Eastern_Euro 6.07 Pct
West_Med 12.43 Pct
West_Asian 10.52 Pct
East_Med 17.84 Pct
Red_Sea 3.57 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.30 Pct
Siberian 1.80 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan


Turk_Komotini

Population
North_Sea 12.87 Pct
Atlantic 6.29 Pct
Baltic 9.55 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.40 Pct
West_Med 12.43 Pct
West_Asian 17.38 Pct
East_Med 17.12 Pct
Red_Sea 3.50 Pct
South_Asian 3.30 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.70 Pct
Siberian 5.13 Pct
Amerindian 1.33 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Dobrich

Population
North_Sea 17.17 Pct
Atlantic 6.61 Pct
Baltic 13.01 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.68 Pct
West_Med 10.46 Pct
West_Asian 13.48 Pct
East_Med 15.29 Pct
Red_Sea 2.52 Pct
South_Asian 2.59 Pct
Southeast_Asian 3.36 Pct
Siberian 4.89 Pct
Amerindian 1.27 Pct
Oceanian 0.57 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.09 Pct


Tatar_Dobrich

Population
North_Sea 12.77 Pct
Atlantic 6.88 Pct
Baltic 13.96 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.87 Pct
West_Med 4.60 Pct
West_Asian 10.79 Pct
East_Med 2.98 Pct
Red_Sea 1.33 Pct
South_Asian 2.54 Pct
Southeast_Asian 12.50 Pct
Siberian 16.26 Pct
Amerindian 1.18 Pct
Oceanian 0.42 Pct
Northeast_African 0.86 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.08 Pct


Turk_Tarnovo

Population
North_Sea 11.04 Pct
Atlantic 9.47 Pct
Baltic 12.71 Pct
Eastern_Euro 11.49 Pct
West_Med 9.59 Pct
West_Asian 19.92 Pct
East_Med 16.31 Pct
Red_Sea 3.85 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 1.47 Pct
Siberian 3.50 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.64 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Kozani

Population
North_Sea 9.37 Pct
Atlantic 9.79 Pct
Baltic 9.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.61 Pct
West_Med 16.05 Pct
West_Asian 16.83 Pct
East_Med 24.85 Pct
Red_Sea 3.15 Pct
South_Asian 1.41 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.77 Pct
Siberian 1.84 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.27 Pct
Sub-Saharan 1.02 Pct



Turk_Thessaloniki

Population
North_Sea 14.01 Pct
Atlantic 16.13 Pct
Baltic 15.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 5.79 Pct
West_Med 11.95 Pct
West_Asian 12.28 Pct
East_Med 20.31 Pct
Red_Sea 2.62 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.86 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Kocani

Population
North_Sea 11.33 Pct
Atlantic 14.79 Pct
Baltic 16.04 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.63 Pct
West_Med 10.49 Pct
West_Asian 11.65 Pct
East_Med 15.56 Pct
Red_Sea 2.38 Pct
South_Asian 2.16 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.78 Pct
Siberian 1.36 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.58 Pct
Northeast_African 0.26 Pct
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Skopje


Population
North_Sea 9.76 Pct
Atlantic 9.54 Pct
Baltic 9.82 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.25 Pct
West_Med 12.99 Pct
West_Asian 20.30 Pct
East_Med 24.04 Pct
Red_Sea 3.63 Pct
South_Asian 0.28 Pct
Southeast_Asian 2.67 Pct
Siberian 2.04 Pct
Amerindian 0.69 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Bitola


Population
North_Sea 8.46 Pct
Atlantic 19.51 Pct
Baltic 14.85 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.80 Pct
West_Med 9.22 Pct
West_Asian 14.24 Pct
East_Med 15.73 Pct
Red_Sea 2.77 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.92 Pct
Siberian 2.73 Pct
Amerindian 0.19 Pct
Oceanian 0.59 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Pribislav]

And to Hrvoje too. He plots almost like my sibling.

That is shity things about autosomal. Someone can be closer to some unconected person than to own parents.

Autosomal should not be taken seriously, of course in reality you are closer to your father than to HL. Autosomal should be just a matter of fun. People who to much insist on autosomal or haplogroups have mental problem and they are not aware of that.

[Pribislav]

That is shity things about autosomal. Someone can be closer to some unconected person than to own parents.

Autosomal should not be taken seriously, of course in reality you are closer to your father than to HL. Autosomal should be just a matter of fun. People who to much insist on autosomal or haplogroups have mental problem and they are not aware of that.

Haplogroups are more seriuos thing than autosomal. With the help of haplogroups we can reconstruct migrations in the past more precisely than any historian. On the other hand autosomal often can to bring confusion and false conclusions. Autosomal is interesting, but in the terms of reconstruction of history and ethno-genesis of populations y dna is more useful.

[karakartal]

Yes.

Turk_Edirne


Population
North_Sea 7.06 Pct
Atlantic 9.03 Pct
Baltic 12.95 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.77 Pct
West_Med 9.24 Pct
West_Asian 21.19 Pct
East_Med 17.58 Pct
Red_Sea 3.91 Pct
South_Asian 1.27 Pct
Southeast_Asian 3.95 Pct
Siberian 4.32 Pct
Amerindian 0.50 Pct
Oceanian 0.24 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Razgrad

Population
North_Sea 7.78 Pct
Atlantic 13.20 Pct
Baltic 13.18 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.59 Pct
West_Med 10.18 Pct
West_Asian 16.46 Pct
East_Med 18.27 Pct
Red_Sea 1.79 Pct
South_Asian 0.15 Pct
Southeast_Asian 2.92 Pct
Siberian 3.27 Pct
Amerindian 0.07 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.11 Pct
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Drama


Population
North_Sea 14.23 Pct
Atlantic 9.32 Pct
Baltic 12.12 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.06 Pct
West_Med 11.57 Pct
West_Asian 15.14 Pct
East_Med 18.38 Pct
Red_Sea 1.57 Pct
South_Asian 1.43 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.77 Pct
Siberian 1.93 Pct
Amerindian 0.07 Pct
Oceanian 0.14 Pct
Northeast_African 0.08 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.21 Pct


Turk_Kardzhali

Population
North_Sea 9.03 Pct
Atlantic 9.59 Pct
Baltic 12.59 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.94 Pct
West_Med 7.20 Pct
West_Asian 16.56 Pct
East_Med 18.85 Pct
Red_Sea 3.27 Pct
South_Asian 4.29 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.99 Pct
Siberian 6.34 Pct
Amerindian 0.30 Pct
Oceanian 0.67 Pct
Northeast_African 0.37 Pct
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Varna

Population
North_Sea 8.97 Pct
Atlantic 11.09 Pct
Baltic 18.14 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.58 Pct
West_Med 13.86 Pct
West_Asian 13.68 Pct
East_Med 17.97 Pct
Red_Sea 2.56 Pct
South_Asian 1.61 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.05 Pct
Siberian 3.39 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.12 Pct


Turk_Silistra

Population
North_Sea 10.61 Pct
Atlantic 13.35 Pct
Baltic 13.83 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.68 Pct
West_Med 10.59 Pct
West_Asian 14.67 Pct
East_Med 13.19 Pct
Red_Sea 4.47 Pct
South_Asian 2.83 Pct
Southeast_Asian 2.36 Pct
Siberian 3.25 Pct
Amerindian 0.17 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -



Turk_Kavala

Population
North_Sea 21.40 Pct
Atlantic 12.55 Pct
Baltic 13.52 Pct
Eastern_Euro 6.07 Pct
West_Med 12.43 Pct
West_Asian 10.52 Pct
East_Med 17.84 Pct
Red_Sea 3.57 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.30 Pct
Siberian 1.80 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan


Turk_Komotini

Population
North_Sea 12.87 Pct
Atlantic 6.29 Pct
Baltic 9.55 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.40 Pct
West_Med 12.43 Pct
West_Asian 17.38 Pct
East_Med 17.12 Pct
Red_Sea 3.50 Pct
South_Asian 3.30 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.70 Pct
Siberian 5.13 Pct
Amerindian 1.33 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Dobrich

Population
North_Sea 17.17 Pct
Atlantic 6.61 Pct
Baltic 13.01 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.68 Pct
West_Med 10.46 Pct
West_Asian 13.48 Pct
East_Med 15.29 Pct
Red_Sea 2.52 Pct
South_Asian 2.59 Pct
Southeast_Asian 3.36 Pct
Siberian 4.89 Pct
Amerindian 1.27 Pct
Oceanian 0.57 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.09 Pct


Tatar_Dobrich

Population
North_Sea 12.77 Pct
Atlantic 6.88 Pct
Baltic 13.96 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.87 Pct
West_Med 4.60 Pct
West_Asian 10.79 Pct
East_Med 2.98 Pct
Red_Sea 1.33 Pct
South_Asian 2.54 Pct
Southeast_Asian 12.50 Pct
Siberian 16.26 Pct
Amerindian 1.18 Pct
Oceanian 0.42 Pct
Northeast_African 0.86 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.08 Pct


Turk_Tarnovo

Population
North_Sea 11.04 Pct
Atlantic 9.47 Pct
Baltic 12.71 Pct
Eastern_Euro 11.49 Pct
West_Med 9.59 Pct
West_Asian 19.92 Pct
East_Med 16.31 Pct
Red_Sea 3.85 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 1.47 Pct
Siberian 3.50 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.64 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Kozani

Population
North_Sea 9.37 Pct
Atlantic 9.79 Pct
Baltic 9.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.61 Pct
West_Med 16.05 Pct
West_Asian 16.83 Pct
East_Med 24.85 Pct
Red_Sea 3.15 Pct
South_Asian 1.41 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.77 Pct
Siberian 1.84 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.27 Pct
Sub-Saharan 1.02 Pct



Turk_Thessaloniki

Population
North_Sea 14.01 Pct
Atlantic 16.13 Pct
Baltic 15.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 5.79 Pct
West_Med 11.95 Pct
West_Asian 12.28 Pct
East_Med 20.31 Pct
Red_Sea 2.62 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.86 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Kocani

Population
North_Sea 11.33 Pct
Atlantic 14.79 Pct
Baltic 16.04 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.63 Pct
West_Med 10.49 Pct
West_Asian 11.65 Pct
East_Med 15.56 Pct
Red_Sea 2.38 Pct
South_Asian 2.16 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.78 Pct
Siberian 1.36 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.58 Pct
Northeast_African 0.26 Pct
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Skopje


Population
North_Sea 9.76 Pct
Atlantic 9.54 Pct
Baltic 9.82 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.25 Pct
West_Med 12.99 Pct
West_Asian 20.30 Pct
East_Med 24.04 Pct
Red_Sea 3.63 Pct
South_Asian 0.28 Pct
Southeast_Asian 2.67 Pct
Siberian 2.04 Pct
Amerindian 0.69 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Turk_Bitola


Population
North_Sea 8.46 Pct
Atlantic 19.51 Pct
Baltic 14.85 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.80 Pct
West_Med 9.22 Pct
West_Asian 14.24 Pct
East_Med 15.73 Pct
Red_Sea 2.77 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.92 Pct
Siberian 2.73 Pct
Amerindian 0.19 Pct
Oceanian 0.59 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

what is your atlantic percentage in k15? my atlantic percentage %6, my father's %3. i think too low. why?

[Kaspias]

what is your atlantic percentage in k15? my atlantic percentage %6, my father's %3. i think too low. why?

We are from Eastern Balkans, why should we score high percentage of Atlantic? I have 5.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Thanks for your effort man.

[Luke35]

My father's (Hungarian) kit. This was phased using the built-in Gedmatch application:

Eurogenes K15
North_Sea 21.12 Pct
Atlantic 17.36 Pct
Baltic 17.62 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.26 Pct
West_Med 8.34 Pct
West_Asian 6.01 Pct
East_Med 5.46 Pct
Red_Sea 3.53 Pct
South_Asian 4.25 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.62 Pct
Siberian 2.72 Pct
Amerindian 1.20 Pct
Oceanian 1.05 Pct
Northeast_African 1.86 Pct
Sub-Saharan 1.58 Pct

Eurogenes K13
North_Atlantic 29.45 Pct
Baltic 24.19 Pct
West_Med 12.97 Pct
West_Asian 8.03 Pct
East_Med 7.38 Pct
Red_Sea 3.76 Pct
South_Asian 4.15 Pct
East_Asian 1.21 Pct
Siberian 3.06 Pct
Amerindian 1.40 Pct
Oceanian 1.17 Pct
Northeast_African 2.16 Pct
Sub-Saharan 1.05 Pct

Eurogenes K36
Amerindian 0.58 Pct
Arabian 3.29 Pct
Armenian -
Basque 1.22 Pct
Central_African 2.12 Pct
Central_Euro 8.12 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.18 Pct
East_Central_Asian 1.09 Pct
East_Central_Euro 12.50 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 9.89 Pct
Fennoscandian 4.88 Pct
French 3.08 Pct
Iberian 8.96 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 13.09 Pct
Malayan 0.93 Pct
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.66 Pct
North_Caucasian 0.97 Pct
North_Sea 5.42 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.56 Pct
Omotic 0.36 Pct
Pygmy 0.35 Pct
Siberian -
South_Asian 1.22 Pct
South_Central_Asian 7.30 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.99 Pct
West_Med 1.21 Pct

[vbnetkhio]

ancient samples

https://i.imgur.com/Athr4vw.png

https://i.imgur.com/kDPJO2r.png

k15 averages for orientation

https://i.imgur.com/VGuTYi0.png

https://i.imgur.com/APHuDUf.png

[xripkan]

We are from Eastern Balkans, why should we score high percentage of Atlantic? I have 5.

I was thinking Bulgarians and Romanians have about 14-15.

[vbnetkhio]

My father's (Hungarian) kit. This was phased using the built-in Gedmatch application:

Eurogenes K15
North_Sea 21.12 Pct
Atlantic 17.36 Pct
Baltic 17.62 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.26 Pct
West_Med 8.34 Pct
West_Asian 6.01 Pct
East_Med 5.46 Pct
Red_Sea 3.53 Pct
South_Asian 4.25 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.62 Pct
Siberian 2.72 Pct
Amerindian 1.20 Pct
Oceanian 1.05 Pct
Northeast_African 1.86 Pct
Sub-Saharan 1.58 Pct

Eurogenes K13
North_Atlantic 29.45 Pct
Baltic 24.19 Pct
West_Med 12.97 Pct
West_Asian 8.03 Pct
East_Med 7.38 Pct
Red_Sea 3.76 Pct
South_Asian 4.15 Pct
East_Asian 1.21 Pct
Siberian 3.06 Pct
Amerindian 1.40 Pct
Oceanian 1.17 Pct
Northeast_African 2.16 Pct
Sub-Saharan 1.05 Pct

Eurogenes K36
Amerindian 0.58 Pct
Arabian 3.29 Pct
Armenian -
Basque 1.22 Pct
Central_African 2.12 Pct
Central_Euro 8.12 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.18 Pct
East_Central_Asian 1.09 Pct
East_Central_Euro 12.50 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 9.89 Pct
Fennoscandian 4.88 Pct
French 3.08 Pct
Iberian 8.96 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 13.09 Pct
Malayan 0.93 Pct
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.66 Pct
North_Caucasian 0.97 Pct
North_Sea 5.42 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.56 Pct
Omotic 0.36 Pct
Pygmy 0.35 Pct
Siberian -
South_Asian 1.22 Pct
South_Central_Asian 7.30 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.99 Pct
West_Med 1.21 Pct

he is with Gagauzes and Coastal Bulgarians but his exotic components are probably exaggurated and pulling him down.
https://i.imgur.com/C9m6CtY.png

[Luke35]

he is with Gagauzes and Coastal Bulgarians but his exotic components are probably exaggurated and pulling him down.
https://i.imgur.com/C9m6CtY.png

Thank you for plotting him.

Yes, his phased kit is noisy, only my mother and I are on Gedmatch so unfortunately this is all I've got for him. It seems he may have had slightly elevated exotic components, but they are exaggerated in the phased kit. Particularly the African stuff, my mother usually gets slightly more than me actually. But his South Central Asian component in k36 is legit, I get 3.42 myself.

[Kaspias]

I was thinking Bulgarians and Romanians have about 14-15.

Correct. For some reason, Turks and Pomaks from around Rhodopes get fewer amounts of it. North-Sea is higher than both Atlantic and Baltic most of time.

[Rgvgjhvv]

My results (Samos):

First with MyHeritage raw data.

K13

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.22
2 West_Med 21.57
3 North_Atlantic 16.5
4 West_Asian 14.35
5 Baltic 12.58
6 Red_Sea 1.88
7 South_Asian 1.31
8 Oceanian 0.82
9 Amerindian 0.61
10 Siberian 0.11
11 Northeast_African 0.04

K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.06
2 West_Med 17.9
3 West_Asian 15.56
4 Atlantic 13.78
5 Baltic 9.18
6 North_Sea 8.33
7 Eastern_Euro 4.05
8 Red_Sea 2.04
9 South_Asian 1.11
10 Oceanian 0.67
11 Amerindian 0.31

K36

Amerindian -
Arabian 0.82 Pct
Armenian 6.26 Pct
Basque 0.43 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.69 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 8.98 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 2.44 Pct
East_Med 15.00 Pct
Eastern_Euro 3.38 Pct
Fennoscandian -
French 1.66 Pct
Iberian 13.75 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 14.43 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 8.27 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 1.52 Pct
North_Caucasian 1.07 Pct
North_Sea 2.20 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.56 Pct
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 8.38 Pct
West_Med 6.14 Pct

Now with AncestryDNA raw data.

K13

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.84
2 West_Med 21.12
3 North_Atlantic 16.58
4 West_Asian 14.12
5 Baltic 12.75
6 Red_Sea 2.2
7 South_Asian 1.31
8 Oceanian 0.91
9 Amerindian 0.72
10 Northeast_African 0.44

K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.9
2 West_Med 17.27
3 West_Asian 15.16
4 Atlantic 14.04
5 Baltic 9.4
6 North_Sea 8.02
7 Eastern_Euro 4.39
8 Red_Sea 2.39
9 South_Asian 1.06
10 Oceanian 0.78
11 Amerindian 0.34
12 Northeast_African 0.26

K36

Amerindian -
Arabian 1.01 Pct
Armenian 6.33 Pct
Basque 1.33 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.88 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 9.43 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 2.39 Pct
East_Med 14.13 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.07 Pct
Fennoscandian -
French 1.43 Pct
Iberian 13.54 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 14.32 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 8.56 Pct
North_African 0.24 Pct
North_Atlantic 1.73 Pct
North_Caucasian 1.46 Pct
North_Sea 1.26 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.12 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.61 Pct
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.06 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian 7.61 Pct
West_Med 5.49 P

[vbnetkhio]

if you want some of these samples on the pca just ask.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?296333-New-Western-Steppe-samples-on-GEDmatch
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34338-GEDmatch-list-of-ancient-samples-with-kit-numbers/page3?p=580299&viewfull=1#post580299

[Rgvgjhvv]

If you need any other results for sake of accuracy let me know!

[Rgvgjhvv]

if you want some of these samples on the pca just ask.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?296333-New-Western-Steppe-samples-on-GEDmatch
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34338-GEDmatch-list-of-ancient-samples-with-kit-numbers/page3?p=580299&viewfull=1#post580299

I9005 Minoan_Lasithi Z834237
I9006 Mycenaean Z004092
I9010 Mycenaean Z290210
I9033 Mycenaean Z157740
Mycenaean Z667807 - - - 1353 bc
I9123 Crete_Armenoi I9123 Z401678
I9127 Minoan_Odigitria Z501208
I9128 Minoan_Odigitria Z383564
I9129 Minoan_Odigitria Z646820
I9130 Minoan_Odigitria Z140201
I9131 Minoan_Odigitria Z129820

[vbnetkhio]

https://i.imgur.com/I2jvKEF.png

added all Turks (from Istanbul, Greece, Bulgaria and Macedonia )
i think this is the most aesthetic version of the PCA so far

[Leto]

Where is my 'Pure Slav' on the PCA?

[Impaler]

How funny even not one of them are native to the Istanbul

Z211567 -> From Drama or Kavala.
Z050256 -> From Thrace or Thessaloniki
Z627145 -> From Central-Eastern Anatolia
Z356894 -> From Central-Western Anatolia
Z026788 -> From Central Anatolia
Z360007 -> From Central-Eastern Anatolia
Z641567 -> From Eastern Anatolia
Z961635 -> From Eastern Anatolia
Z167307 -> From Western Anatolia
Z650044 -> From Thessaloniki

I plot with Thracian. Is that Balkan Turk?

[vbnetkhio]

Where is my 'Pure Slav' on the PCA?

here. included him in Russians
https://i.imgur.com/cSxiQOE.png

[Leto]

here. included him in Russians

Include me too then please

North Sea 23.68%
Atlantic 9.89%
Baltic 24.37%
Eastern European 25.87%
West Mediterranean 3.91%
West Asian 3.65%
East Mediterranean 0.83%
Red Sea 1.99%
Southeast-Asian 0.62%
Siberian 3.31%
Amerindian 1.70%
Oceanian 0.19%

[vbnetkhio]

Include me too then please

North Sea 23.68%
Atlantic 9.89%
Baltic 24.37%
Eastern European 25.87%
West Mediterranean 3.91%
West Asian 3.65%
East Mediterranean 0.83%
Red Sea 1.99%
Southeast-Asian 0.62%
Siberian 3.31%
Amerindian 1.70%
Oceanian 0.19%

here.
https://i.imgur.com/hwvqbNZ.png

[vbnetkhio]

I9005 Minoan_Lasithi Z834237
I9006 Mycenaean Z004092
I9010 Mycenaean Z290210
I9033 Mycenaean Z157740
Mycenaean Z667807 - - - 1353 bc
I9123 Crete_Armenoi I9123 Z401678
I9127 Minoan_Odigitria Z501208
I9128 Minoan_Odigitria Z383564
I9129 Minoan_Odigitria Z646820
I9130 Minoan_Odigitria Z140201
I9131 Minoan_Odigitria Z129820

ancient Greeks

https://i.imgur.com/24WuneV.png

modern Greeks (without Macedonian Greeks)

https://i.imgur.com/JK6wr1o.png

[andre]

here.
https://i.imgur.com/hwvqbNZ.png

Could you include me too?
1 Baltic 20.85
2 Atlantic 19.54
3 East_Med 15.41
4 North_Sea 11.24
5 Eastern_Euro 10.56
6 West_Asian 9.47
7 West_Med 8.79
8 Red_Sea 3.7
9 Siberian 0.37
10 Oceanian 0.06

[vbnetkhio]

Could you include me too?
1 Baltic 20.85
2 Atlantic 19.54
3 East_Med 15.41
4 North_Sea 11.24
5 Eastern_Euro 10.56
6 West_Asian 9.47
7 West_Med 8.79
8 Red_Sea 3.7
9 Siberian 0.37
10 Oceanian 0.06

here
https://i.imgur.com/lZkaaNP.png