View Full Version : Szekely people are genetically close to romanians or hungarians?
andre
09-01-2019, 07:06 PM
Some examples? (I mean pure szekely people not mixed)
TheForeigner
09-01-2019, 07:12 PM
Some examples? (I mean pure szekely people not mixed)
Check wikipedia and the apricity forum for threads on them. On wikipedia it says that they are close to Hungarians and other Central Europeans and they have sources for it.
On average they are in between.
My husband Eurogenes K13 Oracle (half Szekely half Transdanubian)
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Hungarian +50% Moldavian @ 3.249701
Make your own conclusions. Moldovans are between Romanians and Ukrainians and looks like his Szekely father was Moldovan like genetically.
Impaler
09-01-2019, 07:21 PM
He is 100% Székely.
"Thanks for posting the results, that's very interesting compared to mine! I'm 100% Szekely on both sides and as far as we know our family history, and got the results below".
FTDNA autosomal results:
European 88%
East Europe 48%
Southeast Europe 25%
British Isles 15%
Middle Eastern 5%
East Middle East 5%
Trace regions
Ashkenazi 2%
Northeast Asia 2%
Central Asia 1%
Siberia 1%
North and Central America 1%
West Middle East 1%
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.84
2 North_Atlantic 27.2
3 East_Med 13.48
4 West_Med 11.79
5 West_Asian 9.29
6 Red_Sea 3.24
7 Amerindian 1.57
8 South_Asian 1.46
9 East_Asian 1.44
10 Siberian 0.89
11 Oceanian 0.8
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.93
2 Moldavian 6.57
3 Hungarian 6.74
4 Croatian 8.17
5 Romanian 8.17
6 Bulgarian 10.66
7 Austrian 10.71
8 East_German 12.09
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 13.76
10 South_Polish 14.21
11 Ukrainian 15.25
12 West_German 16.17
13 Polish 17.73
14 South_Dutch 17.82
15 Southwest_Russian 18.16
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.34
17 Greek_Thessaly 18.66
18 French 18.8
19 North_German 19.46
20 Russian_Smolensk 19.83
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87% Hungarian + 13% Syrian @ 2.72
2 88.2% Hungarian + 11.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.74
3 88.1% Hungarian + 11.9% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.76
4 87.7% Hungarian + 12.3% Bedouin @ 2.84
5 87.6% Hungarian + 12.4% Jordanian @ 2.85
6 77.5% Romanian + 22.5% La_Brana-1 @ 2.89
7 50.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 49.6% Estonian @ 2.9
8 87.1% Hungarian + 12.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.91
9 88% Hungarian + 12% Assyrian @ 2.92
10 87.8% Hungarian + 12.2% Palestinian @ 2.93
11 88% Hungarian + 12% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.98
12 88.5% Hungarian + 11.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 3
13 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Samaritan @ 3.04
14 88.2% Hungarian + 11.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.14
15 85.8% Hungarian + 14.2% Turkish @ 3.15
16 86.7% Hungarian + 13.3% Azeri @ 3.16
17 89.8% Hungarian + 10.2% Saudi @ 3.19
18 88% Hungarian + 12% Iranian @ 3.2
19 87.8% Serbian + 12.2% La_Brana-1 @ 3.32
20 87.2% Hungarian + 12.8% Cyprian @ 3.37
Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 39.82
2 Atlantic_Med 24.77
3 Caucasus 18.31
4 Gedrosia 6.62
5 Southwest_Asian 6.03
6 Siberian 1.56
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 East_Asian 0.94
9 Southeast_Asian 0.85
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 9.27
2 Romanians (Behar) 10.31
3 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 12
4 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 12.85
5 German (Dodecad) 14.06
6 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 18.36
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 19.78
8 French (Dodecad) 20.64
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 20.77
10 French (HGDP) 21
11 N_Italian (Dodecad) 21.8
12 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.05
13 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.11
14 English (Dodecad) 22.29
15 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 22.95
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 23.48
17 Polish (Dodecad) 23.51
18 Swedish (Dodecad) 23.65
19 Argyll (1000Genomes) 24.11
20 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 24.26
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.1% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.93
2 83.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.4% Lebanese (Behar) @ 3.14
3 84.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.6% Jordanians (Behar) @ 3.15
4 84.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.7% Iranians (Behar) @ 3.18
5 85.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.5% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 3.22
6 84.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.23
7 85.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.33
8 84.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.8% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 3.36
9 84.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.8% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 3.42
10 85% Hungarians (Behar) + 15% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 3.43
11 64.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.48
12 84.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.55
13 58.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 41.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.57
14 65.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.59
15 62.8% Swedish (Dodecad) + 37.2% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.66
16 85.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.68
17 85.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.2% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.7
18 82.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.4% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 3.7
19 85.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.7% Druze (HGDP) @ 3.75
20 82.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.1% Turks (Behar) @ 3.83
MDLP K16 Modern Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 29.93
2 NorthEastEuropean 23.77
3 Neolithic 21.97
4 Steppe 16.46
5 NearEast 3.29
6 Arctic 2.29
7 Indian 0.94
8 SouthEastAsian 0.58
9 Amerindian 0.49
10 Siberian 0.26
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.78
2 Moldavian (Molodva) 4.79
3 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.99
4 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 5.14
5 Serbian (Serbia) 5.47
6 Montenegrian (Montenegro) 5.72
7 Romanian (Apuseni) 5.79
8 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 5.86
9 Croat (Croatia) 5.89
10 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 5.98
11 Macedonian (Macedonia) 6.33
12 Cossack (Zaporozhie) 6.41
13 Romanian (Gorj) 6.5
14 Hungarian (Budapest) 7.43
15 Austrian (Austria) 7.63
16 Romanian (Romania) 7.94
17 Slovenian (Slovenia) 7.96
18 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 8.23
19 Hungarian (Hungary) 8.52
20 Italian (Friul) 9.29
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.3% Greek (Athens) + 47.7% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.27
2 58.9% Greek (Macedonia) + 41.1% Latvian_Dobele (Dobele) @ 2.43
3 74.5% Pole (WestPoland) + 25.5% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.49
4 76.6% Pole (WestPoland) + 23.4% Jew (Iraqi) @ 2.49
5 54.2% Belarusian_West (WestBelarus) + 45.8% Greek (Macedonia) @ 2.51
6 50.2% Greek (Macedonia) + 49.8% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.56
7 55.8% Greek (Macedonia) + 44.2% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.57
8 58.6% Greek (Macedonia) + 41.4% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.6
9 73.7% Pole (WestPoland) + 26.3% Armenian (Lebanon) @ 2.6
10 75.9% Pole (EastPoland) + 24.1% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.6
11 76.8% Pole (WestPoland) + 23.2% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.61
12 59% Cossack (Kuban) + 41% Greek (Greece) @ 2.61
13 55.4% Greek (Peloponnes) + 44.6% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 2.64
14 72.4% Pole (WestPoland) + 27.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.67
15 58.3% Greek (Macedonia) + 41.7% Estonian (Estonia) @ 2.69
16 61.3% Greek (Greece) + 38.7% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.7
17 56% Greek (Greece) + 44% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 2.7
18 57.8% Greek (Macedonia) + 42.2% Latvian (Latvia) @ 2.71
19 81.5% Hungarian (Budapest) + 18.5% Assyrian (Iran) @ 2.71
20 82.2% Hungarian (Hungary) + 17.8% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.71
puntDNAL K15 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 NE_European 48.38
2 Mediterranean 26.54
3 Caucasian 12.57
4 SW_Asian 6.43
5 E_Asian 1.63
6 Amerindian 1.16
7 Horn_Of_Africa 1.02
8 Siberian 0.77
9 Beringian 0.73
10 S_Indian 0.65
11 Oceanian 0.09
12 Wht_Nile_River 0.03
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.1
2 Croatian 5.13
3 Hungarian 6.54
4 Bosnian 6.66
5 Austrian 7.64
6 Slovenian 8.06
7 South_German 8.37
8 Utahn_White 8.85
9 Macedonian 9.06
10 Irish 9.22
11 French 9.36
12 Orcadian 9.94
13 English 10.14
14 Romanian 10.75
15 North_German 10.91
16 Bulgarian 11.15
17 Scottish 11.55
18 Norwegian 12.27
19 Montenegrin 13.1
20 Swedish 14.08
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.4% Hungarian + 10.6% Bedouin_A @ 2.11
2 89.1% Hungarian + 10.9% Yemenite_Jew @ 2.13
3 58.1% Belarusian + 41.9% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.16
4 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Jordanian @ 2.21
5 91.7% Croatian + 8.3% Yemenite_Jew @ 2.26
6 88.7% Hungarian + 11.3% Libyan @ 2.26
7 89.3% Hungarian + 10.7% Yemenese @ 2.27
8 53.8% Lithuanian + 46.2% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.32
9 91.8% Croatian + 8.2% Yemenese @ 2.35
10 83.1% North_German + 16.9% Bedouin_A @ 2.35
11 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Syrian @ 2.36
12 59.4% Belarusian + 40.6% Sicilian @ 2.37
13 88.9% Hungarian + 11.1% Egyptian @ 2.38
14 86.4% Austrian + 13.6% Iraqi_Jew @ 2.38
15 91.4% Croatian + 8.6% Libyan @ 2.39
16 86.3% Austrian + 13.7% Syrian @ 2.39
17 61.3% Belarusian + 38.7% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.39
18 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Iraqi_Jew @ 2.4
19 93.3% Croatian + 6.7% Saudi @ 2.4
20 85.9% Austrian + 14.1% Lebanese @ 2.42
unfortunately the greatest expert on that matter is still banned
I figured they’d be Serbian-like on gedmatch. Wonder if it’s different with G25
He is 100% Székely.
"Thanks for posting the results, that's very interesting compared to mine! I'm 100% Szekely on both sides and as far as we know our family history, and got the results below".
FTDNA autosomal results:
European 88%
East Europe 48%
Southeast Europe 25%
British Isles 15%
Middle Eastern 5%
East Middle East 5%
Trace regions
Ashkenazi 2%
Northeast Asia 2%
Central Asia 1%
Siberia 1%
North and Central America 1%
West Middle East 1%
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.84
2 North_Atlantic 27.2
3 East_Med 13.48
4 West_Med 11.79
5 West_Asian 9.29
6 Red_Sea 3.24
7 Amerindian 1.57
8 South_Asian 1.46
9 East_Asian 1.44
10 Siberian 0.89
11 Oceanian 0.8
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.93
2 Moldavian 6.57
3 Hungarian 6.74
4 Croatian 8.17
5 Romanian 8.17
6 Bulgarian 10.66
7 Austrian 10.71
8 East_German 12.09
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 13.76
10 South_Polish 14.21
11 Ukrainian 15.25
12 West_German 16.17
13 Polish 17.73
14 South_Dutch 17.82
15 Southwest_Russian 18.16
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.34
17 Greek_Thessaly 18.66
18 French 18.8
19 North_German 19.46
20 Russian_Smolensk 19.83
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87% Hungarian + 13% Syrian @ 2.72
2 88.2% Hungarian + 11.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.74
3 88.1% Hungarian + 11.9% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.76
4 87.7% Hungarian + 12.3% Bedouin @ 2.84
5 87.6% Hungarian + 12.4% Jordanian @ 2.85
6 77.5% Romanian + 22.5% La_Brana-1 @ 2.89
7 50.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 49.6% Estonian @ 2.9
8 87.1% Hungarian + 12.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.91
9 88% Hungarian + 12% Assyrian @ 2.92
10 87.8% Hungarian + 12.2% Palestinian @ 2.93
11 88% Hungarian + 12% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.98
12 88.5% Hungarian + 11.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 3
13 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Samaritan @ 3.04
14 88.2% Hungarian + 11.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.14
15 85.8% Hungarian + 14.2% Turkish @ 3.15
16 86.7% Hungarian + 13.3% Azeri @ 3.16
17 89.8% Hungarian + 10.2% Saudi @ 3.19
18 88% Hungarian + 12% Iranian @ 3.2
19 87.8% Serbian + 12.2% La_Brana-1 @ 3.32
20 87.2% Hungarian + 12.8% Cyprian @ 3.37
Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 39.82
2 Atlantic_Med 24.77
3 Caucasus 18.31
4 Gedrosia 6.62
5 Southwest_Asian 6.03
6 Siberian 1.56
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 East_Asian 0.94
9 Southeast_Asian 0.85
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 9.27
2 Romanians (Behar) 10.31
3 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 12
4 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 12.85
5 German (Dodecad) 14.06
6 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 18.36
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 19.78
8 French (Dodecad) 20.64
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 20.77
10 French (HGDP) 21
11 N_Italian (Dodecad) 21.8
12 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.05
13 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.11
14 English (Dodecad) 22.29
15 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 22.95
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 23.48
17 Polish (Dodecad) 23.51
18 Swedish (Dodecad) 23.65
19 Argyll (1000Genomes) 24.11
20 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 24.26
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.1% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.93
2 83.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 16.4% Lebanese (Behar) @ 3.14
3 84.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.6% Jordanians (Behar) @ 3.15
4 84.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.7% Iranians (Behar) @ 3.18
5 85.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.5% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 3.22
6 84.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.23
7 85.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.33
8 84.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.8% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 3.36
9 84.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.8% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 3.42
10 85% Hungarians (Behar) + 15% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 3.43
11 64.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.48
12 84.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.55
13 58.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 41.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.57
14 65.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.59
15 62.8% Swedish (Dodecad) + 37.2% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.66
16 85.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.68
17 85.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.2% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.7
18 82.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.4% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 3.7
19 85.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.7% Druze (HGDP) @ 3.75
20 82.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.1% Turks (Behar) @ 3.83
MDLP K16 Modern Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 29.93
2 NorthEastEuropean 23.77
3 Neolithic 21.97
4 Steppe 16.46
5 NearEast 3.29
6 Arctic 2.29
7 Indian 0.94
8 SouthEastAsian 0.58
9 Amerindian 0.49
10 Siberian 0.26
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.78
2 Moldavian (Molodva) 4.79
3 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.99
4 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 5.14
5 Serbian (Serbia) 5.47
6 Montenegrian (Montenegro) 5.72
7 Romanian (Apuseni) 5.79
8 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 5.86
9 Croat (Croatia) 5.89
10 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 5.98
11 Macedonian (Macedonia) 6.33
12 Cossack (Zaporozhie) 6.41
13 Romanian (Gorj) 6.5
14 Hungarian (Budapest) 7.43
15 Austrian (Austria) 7.63
16 Romanian (Romania) 7.94
17 Slovenian (Slovenia) 7.96
18 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 8.23
19 Hungarian (Hungary) 8.52
20 Italian (Friul) 9.29
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.3% Greek (Athens) + 47.7% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.27
2 58.9% Greek (Macedonia) + 41.1% Latvian_Dobele (Dobele) @ 2.43
3 74.5% Pole (WestPoland) + 25.5% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.49
4 76.6% Pole (WestPoland) + 23.4% Jew (Iraqi) @ 2.49
5 54.2% Belarusian_West (WestBelarus) + 45.8% Greek (Macedonia) @ 2.51
6 50.2% Greek (Macedonia) + 49.8% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.56
7 55.8% Greek (Macedonia) + 44.2% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.57
8 58.6% Greek (Macedonia) + 41.4% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.6
9 73.7% Pole (WestPoland) + 26.3% Armenian (Lebanon) @ 2.6
10 75.9% Pole (EastPoland) + 24.1% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.6
11 76.8% Pole (WestPoland) + 23.2% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.61
12 59% Cossack (Kuban) + 41% Greek (Greece) @ 2.61
13 55.4% Greek (Peloponnes) + 44.6% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 2.64
14 72.4% Pole (WestPoland) + 27.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.67
15 58.3% Greek (Macedonia) + 41.7% Estonian (Estonia) @ 2.69
16 61.3% Greek (Greece) + 38.7% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.7
17 56% Greek (Greece) + 44% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 2.7
18 57.8% Greek (Macedonia) + 42.2% Latvian (Latvia) @ 2.71
19 81.5% Hungarian (Budapest) + 18.5% Assyrian (Iran) @ 2.71
20 82.2% Hungarian (Hungary) + 17.8% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.71
puntDNAL K15 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 NE_European 48.38
2 Mediterranean 26.54
3 Caucasian 12.57
4 SW_Asian 6.43
5 E_Asian 1.63
6 Amerindian 1.16
7 Horn_Of_Africa 1.02
8 Siberian 0.77
9 Beringian 0.73
10 S_Indian 0.65
11 Oceanian 0.09
12 Wht_Nile_River 0.03
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.1
2 Croatian 5.13
3 Hungarian 6.54
4 Bosnian 6.66
5 Austrian 7.64
6 Slovenian 8.06
7 South_German 8.37
8 Utahn_White 8.85
9 Macedonian 9.06
10 Irish 9.22
11 French 9.36
12 Orcadian 9.94
13 English 10.14
14 Romanian 10.75
15 North_German 10.91
16 Bulgarian 11.15
17 Scottish 11.55
18 Norwegian 12.27
19 Montenegrin 13.1
20 Swedish 14.08
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.4% Hungarian + 10.6% Bedouin_A @ 2.11
2 89.1% Hungarian + 10.9% Yemenite_Jew @ 2.13
3 58.1% Belarusian + 41.9% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.16
4 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Jordanian @ 2.21
5 91.7% Croatian + 8.3% Yemenite_Jew @ 2.26
6 88.7% Hungarian + 11.3% Libyan @ 2.26
7 89.3% Hungarian + 10.7% Yemenese @ 2.27
8 53.8% Lithuanian + 46.2% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.32
9 91.8% Croatian + 8.2% Yemenese @ 2.35
10 83.1% North_German + 16.9% Bedouin_A @ 2.35
11 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Syrian @ 2.36
12 59.4% Belarusian + 40.6% Sicilian @ 2.37
13 88.9% Hungarian + 11.1% Egyptian @ 2.38
14 86.4% Austrian + 13.6% Iraqi_Jew @ 2.38
15 91.4% Croatian + 8.6% Libyan @ 2.39
16 86.3% Austrian + 13.7% Syrian @ 2.39
17 61.3% Belarusian + 38.7% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.39
18 88.3% Hungarian + 11.7% Iraqi_Jew @ 2.4
19 93.3% Croatian + 6.7% Saudi @ 2.4
20 85.9% Austrian + 14.1% Lebanese @ 2.42
Looks part Jewish, interesting how he gets minor South Asian too. I wonder is this MENA like shift common in Szekely as Stears gets some too but much less than this guy (no Jewish though).
I saw another Szekely result who look part MENA.
Carpatz
09-01-2019, 07:25 PM
https://i.imgur.com/OX3NALQ.png
https://reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/b932vy/szeklersz%C3%A9kely_mother_hungarian_father/ek317xl/
I figured they’d be Serbian-like on gedmatch. Wonder if it’s different with G25
Molodvan like, not Serbian. This person plots closer to Serbs because of extra mena which pulls him south.
Impaler
09-01-2019, 07:29 PM
Looks part Jewish, interesting how he gets minor South Asian too. I wonder is this MENA like shift common in Szekely as Stears gets some too but much less than this guy (no Jewish though).
I saw another Szekely result who look part MENA.
Maybe that indicate Armenian ancestry due the Szekely history?
Full Szekely posted by Stears, he is very Germanic shifted (also score south asian!)
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 37.51
2 Baltic 30.73
3 West_Med 11.19
4 East_Med 10.28
5 West_Asian 5.73
6 Siberian 2.69
7 South_Asian 1.05
8 Amerindian 0.61
9 Northeast_African 0.2
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 4.91
2 Hungarian 5.33
3 East_German 5.45
4 West_German 9.92
5 North_German 10.76
6 South_Dutch 11.11
7 Croatian 11.13
8 North_Swedish 11.81
9 Serbian 12.24
10 South_Polish 12.32
11 Swedish 12.57
12 Moldavian 12.82
13 Danish 13.08
14 North_Dutch 13.61
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.15
16 Norwegian 14.25
17 Southeast_English 14.35
18 Southwest_Finnish 14.74
19 Ukrainian 14.81
20 Orcadian 14.97
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.6% North_Swedish + 30.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.56
2 75.3% North_Swedish + 24.7% Ashkenazi @ 2.81
3 58.2% North_Swedish + 41.8% Romanian @ 2.84
4 74.2% North_Swedish + 25.8% Central_Greek @ 2.89
5 62.3% North_Swedish + 37.7% Bulgarian @ 2.95
6 74.2% Hungarian + 25.8% Danish @ 2.95
7 76.2% North_Swedish + 23.8% South_Italian @ 2.96
8 74.8% North_Swedish + 25.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.07
9 76.2% Hungarian + 23.8% Norwegian @ 3.07
10 77.2% Hungarian + 22.8% Orcadian @ 3.12
11 75.4% Hungarian + 24.6% North_Dutch @ 3.13
12 80.9% North_Swedish + 19.1% Cyprian @ 3.15
13 51% North_Swedish + 49% Serbian @ 3.18
14 70.6% Hungarian + 29.4% North_German @ 3.19
15 76.7% Hungarian + 23.3% Southeast_English @ 3.23
16 74.1% Hungarian + 25.9% Swedish @ 3.24
17 78.7% North_Swedish + 21.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.24
18 78.4% North_Swedish + 21.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.25
19 79.8% Hungarian + 20.2% West_Scottish @ 3.26
20 73.8% North_Swedish + 26.2% West_Sicilian @ 3.36
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.91
2 North_Sea 21.42
3 Baltic 19.59
4 Eastern_Euro 13.06
5 West_Med 6.56
6 East_Med 5.92
7 West_Asian 5.6
8 Siberian 1.76
9 South_Asian 0.69
10 Amerindian 0.33
11 Northeast_African 0.17
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 3.79
2 East_German 7.23
3 Hungarian 7.71
4 Croatian 8.6
5 South_Polish 10.8
6 Southwest_Finnish 10.97
7 Serbian 11.28
8 Moldavian 11.64
9 Polish 11.94
10 North_German 12.33
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.45
12 South_Dutch 12.51
13 Ukrainian 12.84
14 Russian_Smolensk 13.46
15 Finnish 13.47
16 Romanian 14.34
17 West_German 15.01
18 Southwest_Russian 15.26
19 North_Swedish 15.3
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.35
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.4% Austrian + 18.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.92
2 86% Austrian + 14% Finnish @ 3.13
3 88.7% Austrian + 11.3% La_Brana-1 @ 3.24
4 89.4% Austrian + 10.6% Estonian @ 3.3
5 89.6% Austrian + 10.4% East_Finnish @ 3.34
6 90.4% Austrian + 9.6% North_Swedish @ 3.44
7 89.2% Austrian + 10.8% North_German @ 3.51
8 93.3% Austrian + 6.7% Lithuanian @ 3.53
9 92.4% Austrian + 7.6% Swedish @ 3.54
10 91.8% Austrian + 8.2% Belorussian @ 3.54
11 89.6% Austrian + 10.4% Polish @ 3.55
12 92.5% Austrian + 7.5% Irish @ 3.55
13 98.5% Austrian + 1.5% Dolgan @ 3.55
14 92.1% Austrian + 7.9% Danish @ 3.56
15 98.6% Austrian + 1.4% Evenki @ 3.56
16 98.6% Austrian + 1.4% Evens @ 3.56
17 93% Austrian + 7% West_Scottish @ 3.56
18 91.3% Austrian + 8.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.58
19 98.6% Austrian + 1.4% Yakut @ 3.58
20 98.5% Austrian + 1.5% Koryak @ 3.59
Full thread: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?287727-Sz%E9kely-gedmatch-results!!-Stears-DNA-cousin-romanian-propaganda-debunked
Scandal
09-01-2019, 07:32 PM
Full Szekely posted by Stears, he is very Germanic shifted
Full thread: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?287727-Sz%E9kely-gedmatch-results!!-Stears-DNA-cousin-romanian-propaganda-debunked
Lol, funny how he tried to present him as typical székely when he plots with the half british half hungarian oszkar.
Maybe that indicate Armenian ancestry due the Szekely history?
Stears think that. Some Armenians became Catholic and Magyarized. Can explain mena + south asian they score.
He thinks his exotic admixture is from Armenians in Szekely Land.
Lol, funny how he tried to present him as typical székely when he plots with the half british half hungarian oszkar.
You know him :o
This person isn't typical, but I don't think those heavy mena mixed Szekely are either.
Impaler
09-01-2019, 07:39 PM
Another one, he is a cousin on GEDmatch.
Eurogenes K13:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.96
2 North_Atlantic 28.67
3 West_Med 11.67
4 East_Med 11.07
5 West_Asian 10.06
6 South_Asian 1.92
7 East_Asian 1.66
8 Red_Sea 1.27
9 Northeast_African 0.73
10 Siberian 0.6
11 Sub-Saharan 0.29
12 Amerindian 0.1
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.71
2 Moldavian 5.39
3 Croatian 5.56
4 Serbian 7.33
5 Austrian 9.03
6 East_German 9.71
7 South_Polish 10.61
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.68
9 Romanian 11.1
10 Ukrainian 11.97
11 Bulgarian 13.58
12 Polish 14.36
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.12
14 Southwest_Russian 15.14
15 West_German 15.91
16 Russian_Smolensk 16.62
17 Estonian_Polish 17.37
18 South_Dutch 17.43
19 Belorussian 17.66
20 North_German 17.87
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.8% South_Polish + 27.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.99
2 91.4% Hungarian + 8.6% Kumyk @ 3.06
3 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Lezgin @ 3.13
4 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Kabardin @ 3.14
5 91.7% Hungarian + 8.3% Chechen @ 3.14
6 92.2% Hungarian + 7.8% Adygei @ 3.14
7 92.2% Hungarian + 7.8% Afghan_Tadjik @ 3.17
8 92.5% Hungarian + 7.5% North_Ossetian @ 3.18
9 94.1% Hungarian + 5.9% Makrani @ 3.19
10 93% Hungarian + 7% Iranian @ 3.2
11 92.2% Hungarian + 7.8% Balkar @ 3.21
12 55.7% Hungarian + 44.3% Moldavian @ 3.21
13 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.24
14 94.5% Hungarian + 5.5% Brahui @ 3.26
15 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Tabassaran @ 3.27
16 93.9% Hungarian + 6.1% Abhkasian @ 3.27
17 92.1% Hungarian + 7.9% Turkmen @ 3.27
18 94.4% Hungarian + 5.6% Balochi @ 3.28
19 93.2% Hungarian + 6.8% Kurdish @ 3.29
20 91.9% Hungarian + 8.1% Tadjik @ 3.31
Eurogenes K15:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 27.36
2 Baltic 18.26
3 Atlantic 12.24
4 Eastern_Euro 11.52
5 West_Asian 9.74
6 West_Med 8.36
7 East_Med 7.52
8 South_Asian 2.06
9 Southeast_Asian 1.17
10 Northeast_African 0.93
11 Red_Sea 0.77
12 Sub-Saharan 0.08
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 6.81
2 Moldavian 9.2
3 East_German 10.33
4 Serbian 10.63
5 Croatian 10.88
6 Austrian 11.67
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.83
8 Romanian 12.83
9 Ukrainian 12.85
10 South_Polish 12.99
11 West_German 13.49
12 Finnish 15.07
13 Southwest_Finnish 15.21
14 North_Swedish 15.61
15 Polish 15.72
16 South_Dutch 15.79
17 North_German 15.9
18 Bulgarian 15.99
19 Swedish 16.36
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.27
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.1% Hungarian + 10.9% Tabassaran @ 5.32
2 90.2% Hungarian + 9.8% Lezgin @ 5.55
3 91.1% Hungarian + 8.9% Chechen @ 5.71
4 90.5% Hungarian + 9.5% Kumyk @ 5.71
5 92% Hungarian + 8% Ossetian @ 5.73
6 93.3% Hungarian + 6.7% Abhkasian @ 5.78
7 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% Georgian @ 5.79
8 90.9% Hungarian + 9.1% Afghan_Tadjik @ 5.8
9 91.5% Hungarian + 8.5% Afghan_Pashtun @ 5.8
10 92.1% Hungarian + 7.9% Adygei @ 5.86
11 92.4% Hungarian + 7.6% North_Ossetian @ 5.87
12 92% Hungarian + 8% Balkar @ 5.88
13 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% Makrani @ 5.88
14 93% Hungarian + 7% Brahui @ 5.89
15 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Kabardin @ 5.9
16 92.9% Hungarian + 7.1% Balochi @ 5.9
17 91.4% Hungarian + 8.6% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 5.91
18 72.6% Moldavian + 27.4% West_Norwegian @ 5.92
19 90.9% Hungarian + 9.1% Tadjik @ 5.94
20 68.5% Moldavian + 31.5% Swedish @ 5.95
Dodecad K12b:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 43.32
2 Atlantic_Med 25.93
3 Caucasus 18.12
4 Gedrosia 5.3
5 Southwest_Asian 2.48
6 South_Asian 1.71
7 Southeast_Asian 1.15
8 Northwest_African 1.12
9 Siberian 0.53
10 East_Asian 0.35
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 5.61
2 German (Dodecad) 11.29
3 Romanians (Behar) 12.12
4 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 14.08
5 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 14.49
6 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 16.7
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 17.92
8 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 20.1
9 French (Dodecad) 20.18
10 Polish (Dodecad) 20.18
11 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 20.42
12 Kent (1000Genomes) 20.48
13 French (HGDP) 20.54
14 English (Dodecad) 20.64
15 Swedish (Dodecad) 20.79
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 21.64
17 Norwegian (Dodecad) 21.68
18 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 22.06
19 Argyll (1000Genomes) 22.62
20 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 22.9
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.1% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.85
2 91.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.8% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.87
3 90.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.8% Turks (Behar) @ 2.87
4 63.6% Romanians (Behar) + 36.4% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.87
5 91.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.7% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.88
6 59.9% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 40.1% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.91
7 91.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.7% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.97
8 90.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.7% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 2.97
9 89.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 3
10 91.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.6% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3
11 92.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 3
12 89.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.2% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 3
13 91.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.03
14 92% Hungarians (Behar) + 8% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 3.04
15 88.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 3.04
16 92.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.5% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) @ 3.04
17 92% Hungarians (Behar) + 8% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 3.05
18 92.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.8% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.08
19 88.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.08
20 88.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.09
puntDNAL K13:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 44.47
2 SW_Europe 29.63
3 West_Asia 12.89
4 SW_Asia 5.95
5 South_Asia 1.89
6 NE_Asia 1.6
7 Siberia 1.24
8 East_Africa 1.14
9 West_Africa 0.55
10 Oceania 0.31
11 Americas 0.29
12 SE_Asia 0.04
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.34
2 Slovene 4.5
3 Slovak 4.93
4 Hungarian 5.4
5 Bosnian 5.78
6 Croatian 5.9
7 Serbian 8.52
8 English 8.61
9 German_South 8.77
10 German_North 8.79
11 Scottish 9.27
12 Ukrainian 9.32
13 Utahn_European 9.35
14 Belgian 9.45
15 Irish 9.5
16 Orcadian 9.54
17 Montenegrin 10.92
18 Romanian 11.21
19 French 11.38
20 Norwegian 12.29
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.1% Slovene + 7.9% Afghan_Hazara @ 1.7
2 90.8% Slovene + 9.2% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 1.8
3 92.8% Slovene + 7.2% Burusho @ 2.22
4 91.8% Slovak + 8.2% Afghan_Hazara @ 2.3
5 90.3% Slovak + 9.7% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 2.33
6 88.6% Slovak + 11.4% Nogay @ 2.37
7 89.9% Slovene + 10.1% Nogay @ 2.41
8 90.9% Slovene + 9.1% Tadjik @ 2.42
9 95.1% Slovene + 4.9% Burmese @ 2.47
10 94.5% Slovene + 5.5% Bengali @ 2.5
11 87.4% Slovak + 12.6% Romani @ 2.53
12 95.2% Slovene + 4.8% Gond @ 2.61
13 93.8% Slovene + 6.2% Kashmir_Pandit @ 2.65
14 95.6% Slovene + 4.4% Daur @ 2.65
15 95.1% Slovene + 4.9% Thai @ 2.65
16 89.3% Slovak + 10.7% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.65
17 94.4% Slovene + 5.6% Altaian @ 2.65
18 93.1% Slovene + 6.9% Pathan @ 2.67
19 94.9% Slovene + 5.1% Mongolian @ 2.67
20 71.8% Swedish + 28.2% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.68
MDLP World:
dmix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 40.71
2 North_and_East_European 37.74
3 Caucaus_Parsia 11.97
4 Middle_East 5.54
5 East_Asian 1.4
6 Indian 1.2
7 North_Asian 0.75
8 Melanesian 0.31
9 Sub_Saharian 0.28
10 Arctic_Amerind 0.12
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Bosnian 3.52
2 Croatian 4.12
3 Hungarian 4.19
4 Slovenian 6.24
5 Austrian 6.43
6 German_V 6.66
7 Croatian_V 6.91
8 Serbian 7.26
9 German 7.55
10 Czech 7.91
11 CEU_V 8.31
12 Latvian_V 8.63
13 Slovakian 8.83
14 German-North 8.95
15 German-South 9.32
16 Macedonian 9.62
17 CEU 9.68
18 Montenegrin 9.93
19 Norwegian_V 10.17
20 Welsh 10.43
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.6% Czech + 22.4% Tatar_Crim @ 1
2 75.4% German-North + 24.6% Tatar_Crim @ 1.14
3 78.6% Swedish + 21.4% Turk @ 1.15
4 82.6% German-North + 17.4% Turk @ 1.16
5 84.4% Czech + 15.6% Turk @ 1.21
6 91.9% Hungarian + 8.1% Tadjik @ 1.23
7 94.1% Hungarian + 5.9% Brahui @ 1.41
8 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Turkmen @ 1.43
9 83.7% Norwegian_V + 16.3% Iraqi @ 1.46
10 84.5% Norwegian_V + 15.5% Jew_Kurd @ 1.47
11 93.9% Hungarian + 6.1% Makrani @ 1.47
12 86.7% Czech + 13.3% Georgian_Laz @ 1.51
13 92.4% Hungarian + 7.6% Lezgin @ 1.53
14 92.3% Hungarian + 7.7% Tabassaran @ 1.53
15 91.6% Hungarian + 8.4% Kumyk @ 1.54
16 93.2% Hungarian + 6.8% Pashtun @ 1.54
17 50.7% Romania + 49.3% Ukrainian-East @ 1.55
18 88.8% Slovenian + 11.2% Azeri @ 1.55
19 80.2% Czech + 19.8% Greek_Azov @ 1.55
20 92.2% Croatian + 7.8% Tadjik @ 1.55
MDLP K16:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 26.4
2 NorthEastEuropean 25
3 Neolithic 23.66
4 Steppe 21.33
5 Oceanic 0.96
6 NearEast 0.92
7 Arctic 0.64
8 Amerindian 0.4
9 Siberian 0.35
10 EastAfrican 0.22
11 Indian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Croat (Croatia) 3.77
2 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.67
3 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.74
4 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.97
5 Slovenian (Slovenia) 5.45
6 Austrian (Austria) 5.62
7 Hungarian (Hungary) 5.7
8 Moldavian (Molodva) 5.73
9 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 5.89
10 Hungarian (Budapest) 6.08
11 Slovak (Slovakia) 6.47
12 Serbian (Serbia) 6.49
13 Cossack (Zaporozhie) 6.53
14 Pole (EastPoland) 6.59
15 Hungarian (WestUkraine) 6.65
16 Romanian (Apuseni) 6.77
17 Dutch (Netherlands) 6.82
18 Czech (Czechia) 6.83
19 Pole (Wroclaw) 6.91
20 German (SouthGermany) 7.01
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.4% Norwegian (Norwegia) + 21.6% Turk (Trabzon) @ 1.92
2 77.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 22.5% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.08
3 86.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.8% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.24
4 89.4% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 10.6% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.29
5 87.1% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 12.9% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.33
6 87% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 13% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.36
7 87.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 12.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.36
8 85.1% Dutch (Netherlands) + 14.9% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.41
9 86.9% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 13.1% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 2.43
10 88.2% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 11.8% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.46
11 81.7% Swede (Sweden) + 18.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.46
12 86.3% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.7% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.48
13 86.1% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.9% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.49
14 86.7% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.56
15 82.5% Swede (Sweden) + 17.5% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.57
16 85.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 14.8% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.57
17 88.3% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 11.7% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.57
18 84.9% Dutch (Netherlands) + 15.1% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 2.57
19 86.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.8% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.61
20 88.2% Hungarian (WestUkraine) + 11.8% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.61
Carpatz
09-01-2019, 07:44 PM
Another one, he is a cousin on GEDmatch.
Eurogenes K13:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.96
2 North_Atlantic 28.67
3 West_Med 11.67
4 East_Med 11.07
5 West_Asian 10.06
6 South_Asian 1.92
7 East_Asian 1.66
8 Red_Sea 1.27
9 Northeast_African 0.73
10 Siberian 0.6
11 Sub-Saharan 0.29
12 Amerindian 0.1
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.71
2 Moldavian 5.39
3 Croatian 5.56
4 Serbian 7.33
5 Austrian 9.03
6 East_German 9.71
7 South_Polish 10.61
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.68
9 Romanian 11.1
10 Ukrainian 11.97
11 Bulgarian 13.58
12 Polish 14.36
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.12
14 Southwest_Russian 15.14
15 West_German 15.91
16 Russian_Smolensk 16.62
17 Estonian_Polish 17.37
18 South_Dutch 17.43
19 Belorussian 17.66
20 North_German 17.87
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.8% South_Polish + 27.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.99
2 91.4% Hungarian + 8.6% Kumyk @ 3.06
3 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Lezgin @ 3.13
4 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Kabardin @ 3.14
5 91.7% Hungarian + 8.3% Chechen @ 3.14
6 92.2% Hungarian + 7.8% Adygei @ 3.14
7 92.2% Hungarian + 7.8% Afghan_Tadjik @ 3.17
8 92.5% Hungarian + 7.5% North_Ossetian @ 3.18
9 94.1% Hungarian + 5.9% Makrani @ 3.19
10 93% Hungarian + 7% Iranian @ 3.2
11 92.2% Hungarian + 7.8% Balkar @ 3.21
12 55.7% Hungarian + 44.3% Moldavian @ 3.21
13 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.24
14 94.5% Hungarian + 5.5% Brahui @ 3.26
15 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Tabassaran @ 3.27
16 93.9% Hungarian + 6.1% Abhkasian @ 3.27
17 92.1% Hungarian + 7.9% Turkmen @ 3.27
18 94.4% Hungarian + 5.6% Balochi @ 3.28
19 93.2% Hungarian + 6.8% Kurdish @ 3.29
20 91.9% Hungarian + 8.1% Tadjik @ 3.31
Eurogenes K15:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 27.36
2 Baltic 18.26
3 Atlantic 12.24
4 Eastern_Euro 11.52
5 West_Asian 9.74
6 West_Med 8.36
7 East_Med 7.52
8 South_Asian 2.06
9 Southeast_Asian 1.17
10 Northeast_African 0.93
11 Red_Sea 0.77
12 Sub-Saharan 0.08
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 6.81
2 Moldavian 9.2
3 East_German 10.33
4 Serbian 10.63
5 Croatian 10.88
6 Austrian 11.67
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.83
8 Romanian 12.83
9 Ukrainian 12.85
10 South_Polish 12.99
11 West_German 13.49
12 Finnish 15.07
13 Southwest_Finnish 15.21
14 North_Swedish 15.61
15 Polish 15.72
16 South_Dutch 15.79
17 North_German 15.9
18 Bulgarian 15.99
19 Swedish 16.36
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.27
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.1% Hungarian + 10.9% Tabassaran @ 5.32
2 90.2% Hungarian + 9.8% Lezgin @ 5.55
3 91.1% Hungarian + 8.9% Chechen @ 5.71
4 90.5% Hungarian + 9.5% Kumyk @ 5.71
5 92% Hungarian + 8% Ossetian @ 5.73
6 93.3% Hungarian + 6.7% Abhkasian @ 5.78
7 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% Georgian @ 5.79
8 90.9% Hungarian + 9.1% Afghan_Tadjik @ 5.8
9 91.5% Hungarian + 8.5% Afghan_Pashtun @ 5.8
10 92.1% Hungarian + 7.9% Adygei @ 5.86
11 92.4% Hungarian + 7.6% North_Ossetian @ 5.87
12 92% Hungarian + 8% Balkar @ 5.88
13 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% Makrani @ 5.88
14 93% Hungarian + 7% Brahui @ 5.89
15 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Kabardin @ 5.9
16 92.9% Hungarian + 7.1% Balochi @ 5.9
17 91.4% Hungarian + 8.6% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 5.91
18 72.6% Moldavian + 27.4% West_Norwegian @ 5.92
19 90.9% Hungarian + 9.1% Tadjik @ 5.94
20 68.5% Moldavian + 31.5% Swedish @ 5.95
Dodecad K12b:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 43.32
2 Atlantic_Med 25.93
3 Caucasus 18.12
4 Gedrosia 5.3
5 Southwest_Asian 2.48
6 South_Asian 1.71
7 Southeast_Asian 1.15
8 Northwest_African 1.12
9 Siberian 0.53
10 East_Asian 0.35
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 5.61
2 German (Dodecad) 11.29
3 Romanians (Behar) 12.12
4 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 14.08
5 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 14.49
6 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 16.7
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 17.92
8 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 20.1
9 French (Dodecad) 20.18
10 Polish (Dodecad) 20.18
11 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 20.42
12 Kent (1000Genomes) 20.48
13 French (HGDP) 20.54
14 English (Dodecad) 20.64
15 Swedish (Dodecad) 20.79
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 21.64
17 Norwegian (Dodecad) 21.68
18 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 22.06
19 Argyll (1000Genomes) 22.62
20 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 22.9
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.1% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.85
2 91.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.8% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.87
3 90.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.8% Turks (Behar) @ 2.87
4 63.6% Romanians (Behar) + 36.4% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.87
5 91.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.7% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.88
6 59.9% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 40.1% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.91
7 91.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.7% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.97
8 90.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.7% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 2.97
9 89.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 3
10 91.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.6% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3
11 92.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 3
12 89.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.2% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 3
13 91.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.03
14 92% Hungarians (Behar) + 8% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 3.04
15 88.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 3.04
16 92.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.5% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) @ 3.04
17 92% Hungarians (Behar) + 8% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 3.05
18 92.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.8% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.08
19 88.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.08
20 88.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 3.09
puntDNAL K13:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 44.47
2 SW_Europe 29.63
3 West_Asia 12.89
4 SW_Asia 5.95
5 South_Asia 1.89
6 NE_Asia 1.6
7 Siberia 1.24
8 East_Africa 1.14
9 West_Africa 0.55
10 Oceania 0.31
11 Americas 0.29
12 SE_Asia 0.04
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.34
2 Slovene 4.5
3 Slovak 4.93
4 Hungarian 5.4
5 Bosnian 5.78
6 Croatian 5.9
7 Serbian 8.52
8 English 8.61
9 German_South 8.77
10 German_North 8.79
11 Scottish 9.27
12 Ukrainian 9.32
13 Utahn_European 9.35
14 Belgian 9.45
15 Irish 9.5
16 Orcadian 9.54
17 Montenegrin 10.92
18 Romanian 11.21
19 French 11.38
20 Norwegian 12.29
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.1% Slovene + 7.9% Afghan_Hazara @ 1.7
2 90.8% Slovene + 9.2% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 1.8
3 92.8% Slovene + 7.2% Burusho @ 2.22
4 91.8% Slovak + 8.2% Afghan_Hazara @ 2.3
5 90.3% Slovak + 9.7% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 2.33
6 88.6% Slovak + 11.4% Nogay @ 2.37
7 89.9% Slovene + 10.1% Nogay @ 2.41
8 90.9% Slovene + 9.1% Tadjik @ 2.42
9 95.1% Slovene + 4.9% Burmese @ 2.47
10 94.5% Slovene + 5.5% Bengali @ 2.5
11 87.4% Slovak + 12.6% Romani @ 2.53
12 95.2% Slovene + 4.8% Gond @ 2.61
13 93.8% Slovene + 6.2% Kashmir_Pandit @ 2.65
14 95.6% Slovene + 4.4% Daur @ 2.65
15 95.1% Slovene + 4.9% Thai @ 2.65
16 89.3% Slovak + 10.7% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.65
17 94.4% Slovene + 5.6% Altaian @ 2.65
18 93.1% Slovene + 6.9% Pathan @ 2.67
19 94.9% Slovene + 5.1% Mongolian @ 2.67
20 71.8% Swedish + 28.2% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.68
MDLP World:
dmix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 40.71
2 North_and_East_European 37.74
3 Caucaus_Parsia 11.97
4 Middle_East 5.54
5 East_Asian 1.4
6 Indian 1.2
7 North_Asian 0.75
8 Melanesian 0.31
9 Sub_Saharian 0.28
10 Arctic_Amerind 0.12
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Bosnian 3.52
2 Croatian 4.12
3 Hungarian 4.19
4 Slovenian 6.24
5 Austrian 6.43
6 German_V 6.66
7 Croatian_V 6.91
8 Serbian 7.26
9 German 7.55
10 Czech 7.91
11 CEU_V 8.31
12 Latvian_V 8.63
13 Slovakian 8.83
14 German-North 8.95
15 German-South 9.32
16 Macedonian 9.62
17 CEU 9.68
18 Montenegrin 9.93
19 Norwegian_V 10.17
20 Welsh 10.43
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.6% Czech + 22.4% Tatar_Crim @ 1
2 75.4% German-North + 24.6% Tatar_Crim @ 1.14
3 78.6% Swedish + 21.4% Turk @ 1.15
4 82.6% German-North + 17.4% Turk @ 1.16
5 84.4% Czech + 15.6% Turk @ 1.21
6 91.9% Hungarian + 8.1% Tadjik @ 1.23
7 94.1% Hungarian + 5.9% Brahui @ 1.41
8 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Turkmen @ 1.43
9 83.7% Norwegian_V + 16.3% Iraqi @ 1.46
10 84.5% Norwegian_V + 15.5% Jew_Kurd @ 1.47
11 93.9% Hungarian + 6.1% Makrani @ 1.47
12 86.7% Czech + 13.3% Georgian_Laz @ 1.51
13 92.4% Hungarian + 7.6% Lezgin @ 1.53
14 92.3% Hungarian + 7.7% Tabassaran @ 1.53
15 91.6% Hungarian + 8.4% Kumyk @ 1.54
16 93.2% Hungarian + 6.8% Pashtun @ 1.54
17 50.7% Romania + 49.3% Ukrainian-East @ 1.55
18 88.8% Slovenian + 11.2% Azeri @ 1.55
19 80.2% Czech + 19.8% Greek_Azov @ 1.55
20 92.2% Croatian + 7.8% Tadjik @ 1.55
MDLP K16:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 26.4
2 NorthEastEuropean 25
3 Neolithic 23.66
4 Steppe 21.33
5 Oceanic 0.96
6 NearEast 0.92
7 Arctic 0.64
8 Amerindian 0.4
9 Siberian 0.35
10 EastAfrican 0.22
11 Indian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Croat (Croatia) 3.77
2 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.67
3 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.74
4 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.97
5 Slovenian (Slovenia) 5.45
6 Austrian (Austria) 5.62
7 Hungarian (Hungary) 5.7
8 Moldavian (Molodva) 5.73
9 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 5.89
10 Hungarian (Budapest) 6.08
11 Slovak (Slovakia) 6.47
12 Serbian (Serbia) 6.49
13 Cossack (Zaporozhie) 6.53
14 Pole (EastPoland) 6.59
15 Hungarian (WestUkraine) 6.65
16 Romanian (Apuseni) 6.77
17 Dutch (Netherlands) 6.82
18 Czech (Czechia) 6.83
19 Pole (Wroclaw) 6.91
20 German (SouthGermany) 7.01
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.4% Norwegian (Norwegia) + 21.6% Turk (Trabzon) @ 1.92
2 77.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 22.5% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.08
3 86.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.8% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.24
4 89.4% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 10.6% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.29
5 87.1% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 12.9% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.33
6 87% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 13% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.36
7 87.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 12.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.36
8 85.1% Dutch (Netherlands) + 14.9% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.41
9 86.9% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 13.1% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 2.43
10 88.2% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 11.8% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.46
11 81.7% Swede (Sweden) + 18.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.46
12 86.3% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.7% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.48
13 86.1% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.9% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.49
14 86.7% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.56
15 82.5% Swede (Sweden) + 17.5% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.57
16 85.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 14.8% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.57
17 88.3% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) + 11.7% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.57
18 84.9% Dutch (Netherlands) + 15.1% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 2.57
19 86.2% Dutch (Netherlands) + 13.8% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.61
20 88.2% Hungarian (WestUkraine) + 11.8% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.61
how do you know this person is Szekely?
Scandal
09-01-2019, 07:45 PM
Stears think that. Some Armenians became Catholic and Magyarized. Can explain mena + south asian they score.
He thinks his exotic admixture is from Armenians in Szekely Land.
How much south asian do armenians score?
Carpatz
09-01-2019, 07:47 PM
I noticed that Hungarians with only partial Szekely ancestry are often presented as Szekelys. Stears for example is only half. Chances are that his full Szekely father would get significantly different results.
I noticed that Hungarians with only partial Szekely ancestry are often presented as Szekelys. Stears for example is only half. Chances are that his full Szekely father would get significantly different results.
That's what I said and that's why I posted his 2-way mix Oracle which models him half Hungarian half Moldovan.
That guy looks Swabian admixed that stears posted
How much south asian do armenians score?
On MDLP K16 spreadsheet they range from 5-8 Indian (not sure is it identical as South Asian component)
Mingle
09-01-2019, 07:54 PM
You know him :o
This person isn't typical, but I don't think those heavy mena mixed Szekely are either.Heavy MENA? He gets modeled as 12% Levantine/Assyrian. I don't see why it's hard to believe that Szeklers could have higher East Med and West Asian when they live southeast of Hungary. Also, it's often said Szeklers have more Old Hungarian DNA compared to those in Hungary, so the higher West Asian can partially be explained by that and also partially explained by them having less Germano-Slavic and more Paleo-Balkan/South Euro DNA. Maybe he is admixed like you say but his results aren't too weird for a SE European so I don't think we should jump to conclusions just yet. Or maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the results of that region. He gets close distances to Balkan populations though and that's not something too strange.
How much south asian do armenians score?
On MDLP K16 spreadsheet they range from 5-8% Indian (not sure is it identical as South Asian component)
Impaler
09-01-2019, 08:00 PM
On MDLP K16 spreadsheet they range from 5-8% Indian (not sure is it identical as South Asian component)
On MDLP K16 Indian is half Caucasian as long as Georgians/Chechens score up to 10-13%.
Heavy MENA? He gets modeled as 12% Levantine/Assyrian. I don't see why it's hard to believe that Szeklers could have higher East Med and West Asian when they live southeast of Hungary. Also, it's often said Szeklers have more Old Hungarian DNA compared to those in Hungary, so the higher West Asian can partially be explained by that and also partially explained by them having less Germano-Slavic and more Paleo-Balkan/South Euro DNA. Maybe he is admixed like you say but his results aren't too weird for a SE European so I don't think we should jump to conclusions just yet. Or maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the results of that region. He gets close distances to Balkan populations though and that's not something too strange.
He gets 10% middle eastern on FTDNA not counting trace regions, that is way too much
European 88%
East Europe 48%
Southeast Europe 25%
British Isles 15%
Middle Eastern 5%
East Middle East 5%
Trace regions
Ashkenazi 2%
Northeast Asia 2%
Central Asia 1%
Siberia 1%
North and Central America 1%
West Middle East 1%
Scandal
09-01-2019, 08:04 PM
That guy looks Swabian admixed that stears posted
He claimed the surnames in his family tree are hungarian. Some people just happen to be outliers without recent foreign admixture. Either way he's outlier, he plots Northwest of Hungarians from Hungary(who are already more NW than Székelys), lol.
On MDLP K16 Indian is half Caucasian as long as Georgians/Chechens score up to 10-13%.
I think so, on Eurogenes Armenians score less south Asian, 0-3% I think
example:
# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 36.45
2 East_Med 36.02
3 West_Med 14.07
4 Red_Sea 6.45
5 North_Atlantic 4.62
6 South_Asian 2.24
7 Oceanian 0.14
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian 3.49
Same amount as Stears
That guy looks Swabian admixed that stears posted
He claimed the surnames in his family tree are hungarian. Some people just happen to be outliers without recent foreign admixture. Either way he's outlier, he plots Northwest of Hungarians from Hungary(who are already more NW than Székelys), lol.
Yes for sure German mixed maybe very far back. Does he look Hungarian to you ? I agree with Stears he does have Hungarian phenotype
Scandal
09-01-2019, 08:07 PM
Yes for sure German mixed maybe very far back. Does he look Hungarian to you ? I agree with Stears he does have Hungarian phenotype
Idk. Hungarians can have many looks.
He claimed the surnames in his family tree are hungarian. Some people just happen to be outliers without recent foreign admixture. Either way he's outlier, he plots Northwest of Hungarians from Hungary(who are already more NW than Székelys), lol.
The gedmatch and autosomal in general is like a box of chocolates
andre
09-01-2019, 08:13 PM
I am always amazed by the ability of Hungarians to assimilate anything :)
Impaler
09-01-2019, 08:14 PM
Another one who is fully Szekely.
http://i.imgur.com/yPPkXD1.png (https://imgur.com/yPPkXD1)
Molodvan like, not Serbian. This person plots closer to Serbs because of extra mena which pulls him south.
I meant on gedmatch in general. Maybe G25 would be different. K13 gives me Moldovan @ 7.24 first place(not very close though)and oracles like this
70.2% Bulgarian + 29.8% Southwest_Russian @ 4.23
70.4% Bulgarian + 29.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod
77.3% Bulgarian + 22.7% Lithuanian @ 4.39
73.4% Bulgarian + 26.6% Estonian_Polish @ 4.45
74.5% Bulgarian + 25.5% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.4
Turul Karom
12-08-2019, 01:14 PM
Im a Székely(100%). If any of you still interested, I can post my gedmatch results.
I would love to see it.
I am Székely too from the side of my mother and her direct maternal line.
Kökény
12-08-2019, 01:23 PM
I would love to see it.
I am Székely too from the side of my mother and her direct maternal line.
Nice! Hey there brother. :) Can I ask you which county or town/village your famiy is from? Also tell me what calculator should I choose.
Im a Székely(100%). If any of you still interested, I can post my gedmatch results.
Please do. My man's father was from Kézdivásárhely, but family was originally from Székelyudvarhely. What about you?
Could you post your Eurogenes K13 and K15?
Turul Karom
12-08-2019, 01:57 PM
Nice! Hey there brother. :) Can I ask you which county or town/village your famiy is from? Also tell me what calculator should I choose.
Hello, sister. My family comes from opposite ends of Hungary. Győr-Moson-Sopron county and Transylvania, Székely Land and Szilágy county.
You can post whatever results you would like. There are many calculators. I prefer others than Eurogenes but that one is fine too. If you can, try the Turkic K11 as well. I have posted mine as a screen shot in my GEDmatch thread.
You can see my full GEDmatch results here. If you would like, you can post your own results from the calculators to see how they pair with mine, though the thread is old. If you would like to see any of my own results that are not listed here, feel free to ask.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221145-Turul-Karom-GEDmatch-amp-DNA-Results&highlight=turul+karom+gedmatch+results
I notice your meta-ethnicity and avatar. Very nice. I would like to direct you here, if I can. Though a young man, I have given several presentations on this in different languages, also to Anatolian Turkish audiences with the help of a translator. I make my case for our ancestry on the first page thoroughly, and would like your input if you ever have the time and the inspiration to contribute.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?304552-What-was-the-core-of-the-original-Magyars
If you would ever like to talk about Turkic history or Turanism, feel free to reach out to me.
Though sometimes anti-Turkic or anti-Turan, TA will surprise you at times with positivity. Simply ignore bad faith trolls and have good heart. I welcome you to the forum, and look forward to your threads and posts.
https://i.imgur.com/zAur4wt.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4rGkd61.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oLkdaO8.jpg
Kökény
12-08-2019, 02:24 PM
Hello, sister. My family comes from opposite ends of Hungary. Győr-Moson-Sopron county and Transylvania, Székely Land and Szilágy county.
You can post whatever results you would like. There are many calculators. I prefer others than Eurogenes but that one is fine too. If you can, try the Turkic K11 as well. I have posted mine as a screen shot in my GEDmatch thread.
You can see my full GEDmatch results here. If you would like, you can post your own results from the calculators to see how they pair with mine, though the thread is old. If you would like to see any of my own results that are not listed here, feel free to ask.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221145-Turul-Karom-GEDmatch-amp-DNA-Results&highlight=turul+karom+gedmatch+results
I notice your meta-ethnicity and avatar. Very nice. I would like to direct you here, if I can. Though a young man, I have given several presentations on this in different languages, also to Anatolian Turkish audiences with the help of a translator. I make my case for our ancestry on the first page thoroughly, and would like your input if you ever have the time and the inspiration to contribute.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?304552-What-was-the-core-of-the-original-Magyars
If you would ever like to talk about Turkic history or Turanism, feel free to reach out to me.
Though sometimes anti-Turkic or anti-Turan, TA will surprise you at times with positivity. Simply ignore bad faith trolls and have good heart. I welcome you to the forum, and look forward to your threads and posts.
https://i.imgur.com/zAur4wt.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4rGkd61.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oLkdaO8.jpg
Thank you for the links I will check them out. Im rather fond of Turkic peoples and I believe that we székelys were originally turkic. I recently spoke with a chuvash man. He was surprised that I knew about Chuvashia and I liked their flag(my fave at the moment). Also the symbols are beautiful on it. They have an eight pointed sun like we szekelys. Also I noticed that the cuman flag looks really similar too. :D
Same. I don't really like Eurogenes. I prefer MDLP and the others. Can you tell me wheres the Turkic K11?. I can't find it.
Turul Karom
12-08-2019, 02:44 PM
Thank you for the links I will check them out. Im rather fond of Turkic peoples and I believe that we székelys were originally turkic. I recently spoke with a chuvash man. He was surprised that I knew about Chuvashia and I liked their flag(my fave at the moment). Also the symbols are beautiful on it. They have an eight pointed sun like we szekelys. Also I noticed that the cuman flag looks really similar too. :D
Same. I don't really like Eurogenes. I prefer MDLP and the others. Can you tell me wheres the Turkic K11?. I can't find it.
You are very welcome.
I believe that the core of our conquering Hungarian ancestry was genetically and culturally Turkic. Székely and other groups are Hungarian as well. The eight pointed symbol star we use is also the national emblem of Turkmenistan and can be found in the Chonicon Pictum on a magyar coat of arms.
The Turkic K11 can either be run from files downloadable from here or on a website called "yourDNAportal.com"
I ran mine from files downloaded from the Apricity and screen shot the results. The website makes it much easier though so I would suggest using that if you are unfamiliar with compiling software.
Kökény
12-08-2019, 03:00 PM
Oh I remember now. I already tried the Turkic K11 at yourDNAportal, one or two months ago. But I forgot about it lol.
Anyways heres the results:
Population
Percentage
Southeast European
25.30%
West Asian
16.74%
Southeast Asian
0.22%
Sub-Saharan African
0.49%
Northeast European
31.56%
Indian
4.13%
Northwest European
17.93%
Turkic
1.70%
Mongol
0.60%
Papuan
0.39%
Northeast Asian
0.94%
WeirdLookingFellow
12-08-2019, 03:01 PM
All of these Szeklers show clear signs of Cuman ancestry, especially visible due to the mix of Siberian+Amerindian+East Asian. The South Asian of ~1% is just preserved and dispersed equally, I severely doubt it is distant Armenian or Roma.
Just my opinion, but Szeklers haven't really even mixed much with Germans, though that guy Feiichy posted from Stears is clearly German admixed.
Kökény
12-08-2019, 03:02 PM
Oh I remember now. I already tried the Turkic K11 at yourDNAportal, one or two months ago. But I forgot about it lol.
Anyways heres the results:
Population
Percentage
Southeast European
25.30%
West Asian
16.74%
Southeast Asian
0.22%
Sub-Saharan African
0.49%
Northeast European
31.56%
Indian
4.13%
Northwest European
17.93%
Turkic
1.70%
Mongol
0.60%
Papuan
0.39%
Northeast Asian
0.94%
EDIT: Oops sorry I sent it two times accidentally
WeirdLookingFellow
12-08-2019, 03:04 PM
Oh I remember now. I already tried the Turkic K11 at yourDNAportal, one or two months ago. But I forgot about it lol.
Anyways heres the results:
Population Percentage
Southeast European
25.30%
West Asian
16.74%
Southeast Asian
0.22%
Sub-Saharan African
0.49%
Northeast European
31.56%
Indian
4.13%
Northwest European
17.93%
Turkic
1.70%
Mongol
0.60%
Papuan
0.39%
Northeast Asian
0.94%
EDIT: Oops sorry I sent it two times accidentally
Mine as a comparison:
Population
Percentage
Southeast European
33.80%
West Asian
15.54%
Southeast Asian
0.00%
Sub-Saharan African
1.07%
Northeast European
32.36%
Indian
0.14%
Northwest European
14.51%
Turkic
1.31%
Mongol
0.00%
Papuan
0.58%
Northeast Asian
0.70%
Turul Karom
12-08-2019, 03:10 PM
All of these Szeklers show clear signs of Cuman ancestry, especially visible due to the mix of Siberian+Amerindian+East Asian. The South Asian of ~1% is just preserved and dispersed equally, I severely doubt it is distant Armenian or Roma.
Just my opinion, but Szeklers haven't really even mixed much with Germans, though that guy Feiichy posted from Stears is clearly German admixed.
Cumans mixed throughout Hungary, along with Avars, Pechenegs, etc. Hungary has always been a melting pot of Turkics and not isolated as some may think. Conquering Hungarians overlap with Bashkirs and are closest distance from modern Hungarians when plotted on graph.
Oh I remember now. I already tried the Turkic K11 at yourDNAportal, one or two months ago. But I forgot about it lol.
Anyways heres the results:
Population Percentage
Southeast European
25.30%
West Asian
16.74%
Southeast Asian
0.22%
Sub-Saharan African
0.49%
Northeast European
31.56%
Indian
4.13%
Northwest European
17.93%
Turkic
1.70%
Mongol
0.60%
Papuan
0.39%
Northeast Asian
0.94%
EDIT: Oops sorry I sent it two times accidentally
Very interesting results, different from me but still Turkic indeed.
Here is a tip. If the website ever asks you to stay on page or leave page, clicking "stay on page" and then manually refreshing the page will show your post and not cause you to post twice. Make sure you saved your post in a text file if it is long or important, just to be safe.
Turul Karom
12-08-2019, 03:14 PM
Oh I remember now. I already tried the Turkic K11 at yourDNAportal, one or two months ago. But I forgot about it lol.
Anyways heres the results:
Population Percentage
Southeast European
25.30%
West Asian
16.74%
Southeast Asian
0.22%
Sub-Saharan African
0.49%
Northeast European
31.56%
Indian
4.13%
Northwest European
17.93%
Turkic
1.70%
Mongol
0.60%
Papuan
0.39%
Northeast Asian
0.94%
EDIT: Oops sorry I sent it two times accidentally
Mine as a comparison:
Population
Percentage
Southeast European
33.80%
West Asian
15.54%
Southeast Asian
0.00%
Sub-Saharan African
1.07%
Northeast European
32.36%
Indian
0.14%
Northwest European
14.51%
Turkic
1.31%
Mongol
0.00%
Papuan
0.58%
Northeast Asian
0.70%
My Turkic K11 just for ease of comparison as well.
https://i.imgur.com/uxiMvmS.png
Kökény
12-08-2019, 03:35 PM
My Turkic K11 just for ease of comparison as well.
https://i.imgur.com/uxiMvmS.png
Thanks for the tip. I been struggling for a while with it.
I found it interesting that none of you guys have mongol only me. Genghis would be proud lmaoo.
Turul Karom
12-08-2019, 03:42 PM
Thanks for the tip. I been struggling for a while with it.
I found it interesting that none of you guys have mongol only me. Genghis would be proud lmaoo.
Depends on the calculator for me. I even get East Asian on my Eurogenes calculator results, also Amerindian. Though it is important to note to be Turkic, east Asian stereotypes are a tool for divisiveness because usually the detractors focus on non-Turkic Sinic phenotypes rather than ancestral Central Asia which was often a combination of sorts.
Kökény
12-08-2019, 03:59 PM
Depends on the calculator for me. I even get East Asian on my Eurogenes calculator results, also Amerindian. Though it is important to note to be Turkic, east Asian stereotypes are a tool for divisiveness because usually the detractors focus on non-Turkic Sinic phenotypes rather than ancestral Central Asia which was often a combination of sorts.
Yeah it all depends on the calculator. Actually in every single one that I've tried so far, I always got east asian. Funny thing is that the only dna comany that I tried was Myheritage and they gave me 2,2% japanese & korean. I was so shocked when I saw it, but I kinda expected it. :D
Blondie
12-08-2019, 04:03 PM
All of these Szeklers show clear signs of Cuman ancestry, especially visible due to the mix of Siberian+Amerindian+East Asian.
That's not necessarily turkic ancestry, it can be uralic too. Finno-ugrians also have such admixture.
Just my opinion, but Szeklers haven't really even mixed much with Germans, though that guy Feiichy posted from Stears is clearly German admixed.
They did it as well, tons of szeklers have germanic I1 and celto-germanic R1b germanic paternal origin:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2008.00440.x
Szeklers and transylvanian saxons lived together in mixed regions since medieval age so it's not surprise.
hi can you please post Puntdnal calcs?
Kökény
12-08-2019, 04:25 PM
Thanks for posting and welcome! :thumb001:
Your results don't seem too different from Translyvanian Romanians and those from Maramures like Carpatz, if I am not mistaken.
Slavic input seems low, but western Euro is considerable. In mixed mode you can be modeled as 75% Romanian average + 25% Germanic/NW Euro, which could confirm my tendency Szekely have less Slavic and more Balkan input compared to Magyars fom Hungary, while German seems about equal in both groups.
And of course, there is minor steppe/conqueror Hungarian ancestry than you do score. Szekely especially have it.
Very nice, finally full Szekler on TA :D!
I fully agree! :D
We are really similar with romanians. Always get either them or serbians in firts place at population distance. After them are bulgarians or germans usually. Rarely hungarian but they are more like at 4th 5th place. We are definitely more Balkanic than hungarians. I scored 84,4% Balkan in Myheritage. I pretty much look like someone from there. If we don't count my eyes. Thats where the asian shows. :)
Kökény
12-08-2019, 04:28 PM
hi can you please post Puntdnal calcs?
All of them?
I fully agree! :D
We are really similar with romanians. Always get either them or serbians in firts place at population distance. After them are bulgarians or germans usually. Rarely hungarian but they are more like at 4th 5th place. We are definitely more Balkanic than hungarians. I scored 84,4% Balkan in Myheritage. I pretty much look like someone from there. If we don't count my eyes. Thats where the asian shows. :)
This is where you plot on K15 PCA :)
https://i.imgur.com/MfHBjOs.png
Kökény
12-08-2019, 04:36 PM
10 and 13
puntDNAL K10 Ancient Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 WHG 35.96
2 ENF 30.3
3 CHG 26.64
4 Sub-Saharan 1.9
5 E_Asian 1.77
6 ASI 1.6
7 Oceanian 1.37
8 Siberian 0.46
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 3.99
2 Croatian 8.95
3 Hungarian 9.53
4 French 9.91
5 German_South 10.26
6 Greek 10.4
7 Albanian 10.41
8 Italian_North 10.8
9 Utahn_white 11.52
10 Irish 11.59
11 Tuscan 12.8
12 English_South 13.19
13 Italian_South 13.84
14 German_North 14.42
15 Czech 15.17
16 Spanish_Northeast 16.44
17 Scottish_West 16.62
18 Spanish_Southwest 16.88
19 Ukrainian 17.75
20 Ashkenazi_Jew 18.42
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.5% German_North + 29.5% Syrian @ 2.27
2 63.7% Norwegian + 36.3% Syrian @ 2.32
3 72.4% English_South + 27.6% Syrian @ 2.34
4 56.5% Estonian + 43.5% Lebanese @ 2.44
5 65.6% Norwegian + 34.4% Palestinian @ 2.46
6 69.4% Ukrainian + 30.6% Saudi @ 2.47
7 67.4% Scottish_West + 32.6% Syrian @ 2.49
8 67.4% Ukrainian + 32.6% Jordanian @ 2.52
9 79.8% Croatian + 20.2% Syrian @ 2.56
10 75% Irish + 25% Syrian @ 2.59
11 71.9% German_North + 28.1% Jordanian @ 2.61
12 55.4% Lithuanian + 44.6% Lebanese @ 2.63
13 58.5% Lithuanian + 41.5% Saudi @ 2.63
14 66.6% Ukrainian + 33.4% Lebanese @ 2.64
15 63.6% Belarusian + 36.4% Saudi @ 2.66
16 79.8% Hungarian + 20.2% Jordanian @ 2.66
17 78.8% Hungarian + 21.2% Syrian @ 2.67
18 67.3% Norwegian + 32.7% Saudi @ 2.68
19 82.4% Hungarian + 17.6% Yemeni @ 2.68
20 76.3% Irish + 23.7% Jordanian @ 2.69
puntDNAL K13 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 38.01
2 SW_Europe 31.68
3 West_Asia 14.6
4 SW_Asia 6.33
5 Siberia 2.53
6 South_Asia 2.01
7 NE_Asia 1.7
8 Americas 0.96
9 Oceania 0.87
10 West_Africa 0.68
11 SE_Asia 0.4
12 South_Africa 0.13
13 East_Africa 0.1
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.31
2 Bosnian 6.4
3 Moldavian 6.45
4 Romanian 6.62
5 Montenegrin 6.88
6 Croatian 7.71
7 Bulgarian 8.4
8 Macedonian 8.53
9 Hungarian 9.37
10 Slovene 9.51
11 German_South 10.73
12 Slovak 10.75
13 French 11.33
14 Belgian 11.69
15 English 12.19
16 Scottish 13.03
17 Kosovar 13.33
18 Orcadian 13.52
19 Irish 13.75
20 Utahn_European 13.88
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.2% Utahn_European + 31.8% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.44
2 81% Serbian + 19% Tatar @ 2.78
3 72.1% Belgian + 27.9% Nogay @ 2.79
4 71.2% English + 28.8% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.85
5 93.8% Serbian + 6.2% Tuvinian @ 2.87
6 92.9% Serbian + 7.1% Altaian @ 2.9
7 86.6% Serbian + 13.4% Aluet @ 2.91
8 93.6% Serbian + 6.4% Mongolian @ 3.02
9 76.6% Belgian + 23.4% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 3.03
10 94.5% Serbian + 5.5% Oroqen @ 3.05
11 93.2% Serbian + 6.8% Selkup @ 3.06
12 86.5% Croatian + 13.5% Afghan_Hazara @ 3.09
13 85.8% Serbian + 14.2% Chuvash @ 3.1
14 77.3% French + 22.7% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 3.13
15 69% Orcadian + 31% Turkish_Aydin @ 3.14
16 68.6% Irish + 31.4% Turkish_Aydin @ 3.17
17 94.9% Serbian + 5.1% Eskimo @ 3.21
18 95.1% Serbian + 4.9% Chukchi @ 3.22
19 71.5% Utahn_European + 28.5% Turkish_Kayseri @ 3.24
20 95.1% Serbian + 4.9% Koryak @ 3.25
Kökény
12-08-2019, 04:38 PM
This is where you plot on K15 PCA :)
https://i.imgur.com/MfHBjOs.png
Thank you for the map. Really interesting! :thumb001:
Bruh im not even close to hungarian lol.
Kaspias
12-08-2019, 07:59 PM
That's not necessarily turkic ancestry, it can be uralic too. Finno-ugrians also have such admixture.
6 Siberian 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.61
9 East_Asian 1.03
10 Oceanian 1
11 Amerindian 0.74
It is not possible a Finno-Ugric carry all of it. Scoring such South Asian with East Eurasian is Turkic characteristic.
Oceanian and Amerindian the other clues.
andre
12-08-2019, 08:04 PM
Thank you for the map. Really interesting! :thumb001:
Bruh im not even close to hungarian lol.
You score just a little more north east of me.
Kökény
12-08-2019, 08:14 PM
You score just a little more north east of me.
Nice. Who knows maybe we are distantly related.
andre
12-08-2019, 08:16 PM
Nice. Who knows maybe we are distantly related.
Nem tudom :)
andre
12-08-2019, 08:17 PM
Nice. Who knows maybe we are distantly related.
Could you tell me where are you from (tell me the places names in romanian)? Do you speak romanian, ain’t you?
andre
12-08-2019, 08:36 PM
Nice! I know kicsit magyarul :) just bad words and some peasant phrases! Ahahah
Kökény
12-08-2019, 08:50 PM
Nice! I know kicsit magyarul :) just bad words and some peasant phrases! Ahahah
Thats good. Its the same with me. I know bunică and la revedere (reminds me of lavender, my favourite flower). Also your grammar is nice. :D
andre
12-08-2019, 08:54 PM
Thats good. Its the same with me. I know bunică and la revedere (reminds me of lavender, my favourite flower) Also your grammar is nice. :D
Thank you!
Where do you live? Do you ever live in Romania? (Im just curious)
Kökény
12-08-2019, 09:08 PM
Thank you!
Where do you live? Do you ever live in Romania? (I’m just curious)
I was born and raised in Hungary. But I've been travelling to Transylvania since I was born. One time we went to Constanţa for holiday. :D
I want to move back to Transylvania to my family sometime in the future. I really miss them :( . How about you?
Blondie
12-08-2019, 09:08 PM
6 Siberian 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.61
9 East_Asian 1.03
10 Oceanian 1
11 Amerindian 0.74
It is not possible a Finno-Ugric carry all of it. Scoring such South Asian with East Eurasian is Turkic characteristic.
Oceanian and Amerindian the other clues.
Not necessarily, the problem is you guys claim everything which is eurasian/asian and you forgot that uralic peoples are also eurasians and have similar admixture types. Tons of finno-ugrians have east eurasian genetic, and she have talked about her armenian ancestry, so this south asian can be armenian ancestry too or gypsie (who are not turkic).
andre
12-08-2019, 09:17 PM
I was born and raised in Hungary. But I've been travelling to Transylvania since I was born. One time we went to Constanţa for holiday. :D
I want to move back to Transylvania to my family sometime in the future. I really miss them :( . How about you?
I was born in Romania and i lived there only for 5 years (0-5 yo :) ). Basically I grow up in Italy. My home is Italy without doubt, but i try to preserve my heritage.
I was born and raised in Hungary. But I've been travelling to Transylvania since I was born. One time we went to Constanţa for holiday. :D
I want to move back to Transylvania to my family sometime in the future. I really miss them :( . How about you?
Hey, I would like to ask you if you don't mind: do you see any difference in looks and mentality between Szekely and Hungarians from Hungary?
I know it's very broad question which requires generalisation as each person is individual but I had to ask because curious how native Szekely sees it.
Kökény
12-08-2019, 09:55 PM
Hey, I would like to ask you if you don't mind: do you see any difference in looks and mentality between Szekely and Hungarians from Hungary?
I know it's very broad question which requires generalisation as each person is individual but I had to ask because curious how native Szekely sees it.
Oh, I'm glad you asked. Of course, there are a lot of examples. First: the looks. I'm pretty sure everybody here knows that we székelys tend to look more "asian". We have that autenthic look that you can tell from far. While hungarians look waaay more mixed. They don't have a standard look. In my class, literally every second person had a surname that ended in -szki, or -vics. Too many slavic and german surnames. And the ones that look asian are really rare. They either have original magyar blood or cuman ancestors.
Now, the mentality is one interesting thing. In my perspective hungarians are depressed, always negative, whiny, sometimes aggressive, always talks big but does nothing, always fights each other. But that doesn't mean they don't have good characterics. But I have really bad experiences with them. They always called me romanian bitch or such names. Calling someone a romanian is an insult here. You can imagine how they hate them. I was really hurt by these words. Honestly, i started to hate them with burning passion. Because it happened way too many times. Szekelys in Hungary usually called like that bye some retarded hungarians.
Now back to the mentality: I think szekelys are friendly,stubborn,hard working, never gives up, if they want something they will get it, hospitable, clever, confident, enjoys the little things, sometimes can be hot headed, and they always stick together. The two peoples are nothing alike if you ask me. I spent half my childhood in Transylvania I know everything about it. Anywhere I went, they always welcomed me like I was their relative. The tables were always full of food and sweets. And overall I like the vibe there. It seems like such a happy place. These are my opinions. Hope I didn't offend anybody lol.:)
Pribislav
12-08-2019, 09:56 PM
To Serbs.
Cumansky
12-08-2019, 09:59 PM
Oh, I'm glad you asked. Of course, there are a lot of examples. First: the looks. I'm pretty sure everybody here knows that we székelys tend to look more "asian". We have that autenthic look that you can tell from far. While hungarians look waaay more mixed. They don't have a standard look. In my class, literally every second person had a surname that ended in -szki, or -vics. Too many slavic and german surnames. And the ones that look asian are really rare. They either have original magyar blood or cuman ancestors.
Now, the mentality is one interesting thing. In my perspective hungarians are depressed, always negative, whiny, sometimes aggressive, always talks big but does nothing, always fighs each other. But that doesn't mean they don't have good characterics. But I have really bad experiences with them. They always called me romanian bitch or such names. Calling someone a romanian is an insult here. You can imagine how they hate them. I was really hurt by these words. I started to hate them with burning passion. Because it happned way too many times. Szekelys in Hungary usually called like that bye some retarded hungarians.
Now back to the mentality: I think szekelys are friendly,stubborn,hard working, never gives up, if they want something they will get it, hospitable, clever, enjoys the little things, sometimes can be hot headed, and they always stick together. The two peoples are nothing alike if you ask me. I spet half my childhood in Transylvania I know everything about it. Anywhere I went they always welcomed me like I was their relative. The tables were always full of food and sweets. And overall I like the vibe there. It seems like such a happy place. These are my opinions. Hope I didn't offend anybody lol.:)
Did you take a DNA? Can I see
Pribislav
12-08-2019, 10:06 PM
Molodvan like, not Serbian. This person plots closer to Serbs because of extra mena which pulls him south.
It's not only one. I have seen few Szekelys results who got no 1 Serbian.
Serbs have lower Siberian and East_Asian score than Szekelys, that is a difference.
andre
12-08-2019, 10:09 PM
Oh, I'm glad you asked. Of course, there are a lot of examples. First: the looks. I'm pretty sure everybody here knows that we székelys tend to look more "asian". We have that autenthic look that you can tell from far. While hungarians look waaay more mixed. They don't have a standard look. In my class, literally every second person had a surname that ended in -szki, or -vics. Too many slavic and german surnames. And the ones that look asian are really rare. They either have original magyar blood or cuman ancestors.
Now, the mentality is one interesting thing. In my perspective hungarians are depressed, always negative, whiny, sometimes aggressive, always talks big but does nothing, always fights each other. But that doesn't mean they don't have good characterics. But I have really bad experiences with them. They always called me romanian bitch or such names. Calling someone a romanian is an insult here. You can imagine how they hate them. I was really hurt by these words. Honestly, i started to hate them with burning passion. Because it happened way too many times. Szekelys in Hungary usually called like that bye some retarded hungarians.
Now back to the mentality: I think szekelys are friendly,stubborn,hard working, never gives up, if they want something they will get it, hospitable, clever, confident, enjoys the little things, sometimes can be hot headed, and they always stick together. The two peoples are nothing alike if you ask me. I spent half my childhood in Transylvania I know everything about it. Anywhere I went, they always welcomed me like I was their relative. The tables were always full of food and sweets. And overall I like the vibe there. It seems like such a happy place. These are my opinions. Hope I didn't offend anybody lol.:)
They use “Oláh” for the offensive phrases?
puntDNAL K10 Ancient Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 WHG 35.96
2 ENF 30.3
3 CHG 26.64
4 Sub-Saharan 1.9
5 E_Asian 1.77
6 ASI 1.6
7 Oceanian 1.37
8 Siberian 0.46
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 3.99
2 Croatian 8.95
3 Hungarian 9.53
4 French 9.91
5 German_South 10.26
6 Greek 10.4
7 Albanian 10.41
8 Italian_North 10.8
9 Utahn_white 11.52
10 Irish 11.59
11 Tuscan 12.8
12 English_South 13.19
13 Italian_South 13.84
14 German_North 14.42
15 Czech 15.17
16 Spanish_Northeast 16.44
17 Scottish_West 16.62
18 Spanish_Southwest 16.88
19 Ukrainian 17.75
20 Ashkenazi_Jew 18.42
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.5% German_North + 29.5% Syrian @ 2.27
2 63.7% Norwegian + 36.3% Syrian @ 2.32
3 72.4% English_South + 27.6% Syrian @ 2.34
4 56.5% Estonian + 43.5% Lebanese @ 2.44
5 65.6% Norwegian + 34.4% Palestinian @ 2.46
6 69.4% Ukrainian + 30.6% Saudi @ 2.47
7 67.4% Scottish_West + 32.6% Syrian @ 2.49
8 67.4% Ukrainian + 32.6% Jordanian @ 2.52
9 79.8% Croatian + 20.2% Syrian @ 2.56
10 75% Irish + 25% Syrian @ 2.59
11 71.9% German_North + 28.1% Jordanian @ 2.61
12 55.4% Lithuanian + 44.6% Lebanese @ 2.63
13 58.5% Lithuanian + 41.5% Saudi @ 2.63
14 66.6% Ukrainian + 33.4% Lebanese @ 2.64
15 63.6% Belarusian + 36.4% Saudi @ 2.66
16 79.8% Hungarian + 20.2% Jordanian @ 2.66
17 78.8% Hungarian + 21.2% Syrian @ 2.67
18 67.3% Norwegian + 32.7% Saudi @ 2.68
19 82.4% Hungarian + 17.6% Yemeni @ 2.68
20 76.3% Irish + 23.7% Jordanian @ 2.69
puntDNAL K13 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 38.01
2 SW_Europe 31.68
3 West_Asia 14.6
4 SW_Asia 6.33
5 Siberia 2.53
6 South_Asia 2.01
7 NE_Asia 1.7
8 Americas 0.96
9 Oceania 0.87
10 West_Africa 0.68
11 SE_Asia 0.4
12 South_Africa 0.13
13 East_Africa 0.1
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.31
2 Bosnian 6.4
3 Moldavian 6.45
4 Romanian 6.62
5 Montenegrin 6.88
6 Croatian 7.71
7 Bulgarian 8.4
8 Macedonian 8.53
9 Hungarian 9.37
10 Slovene 9.51
11 German_South 10.73
12 Slovak 10.75
13 French 11.33
14 Belgian 11.69
15 English 12.19
16 Scottish 13.03
17 Kosovar 13.33
18 Orcadian 13.52
19 Irish 13.75
20 Utahn_European 13.88
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.2% Utahn_European + 31.8% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.44
2 81% Serbian + 19% Tatar @ 2.78
3 72.1% Belgian + 27.9% Nogay @ 2.79
4 71.2% English + 28.8% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.85
5 93.8% Serbian + 6.2% Tuvinian @ 2.87
6 92.9% Serbian + 7.1% Altaian @ 2.9
7 86.6% Serbian + 13.4% Aluet @ 2.91
8 93.6% Serbian + 6.4% Mongolian @ 3.02
9 76.6% Belgian + 23.4% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 3.03
10 94.5% Serbian + 5.5% Oroqen @ 3.05
11 93.2% Serbian + 6.8% Selkup @ 3.06
12 86.5% Croatian + 13.5% Afghan_Hazara @ 3.09
13 85.8% Serbian + 14.2% Chuvash @ 3.1
14 77.3% French + 22.7% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 3.13
15 69% Orcadian + 31% Turkish_Aydin @ 3.14
16 68.6% Irish + 31.4% Turkish_Aydin @ 3.17
17 94.9% Serbian + 5.1% Eskimo @ 3.21
18 95.1% Serbian + 4.9% Chukchi @ 3.22
19 71.5% Utahn_European + 28.5% Turkish_Kayseri @ 3.24
20 95.1% Serbian + 4.9% Koryak @ 3.25
Cool results. Thank you for sharing. Cheers.
Kaspias
12-08-2019, 10:23 PM
Not necessarily, the problem is you guys claim everything which is eurasian/asian and you forgot that uralic peoples are also eurasians and have similar admixture types. Tons of finno-ugrians have east eurasian genetic, and she have talked about her armenian ancestry, so this south asian can be armenian ancestry too or gypsie (who are not turkic).
"You guys"? Who? I have never claimed anything wrong but always tried to explain the truth. You took it as propaganda.
Armenians don't have South Asian. Moreover, there is nothing to point out she has Armenian ancestry, if there is, it is absorbed. I'm going to suggest to check her West Asian score which is already less than Hungarian average. If she had Gypsy ancestor the South Asian score wouldn't be less than her East Eurasian. Carrying all together is only can be seen either in some Iranic groups or Turks
Do they all have Roma or Armenian ancestry? Both of them Szekely.
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.07
2 North_Atlantic 25.51
3 West_Med 17.29
4 West_Asian 13.16
5 East_Med 9.61
6 Siberian 3.76
7 East_Asian 1.28
8 South_Asian 0.79
9 Red_Sea 0.34
10 Amerindian 0.18
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 27.13
2 Baltic 26.42
3 East_Med 16.19
4 West_Med 11.83
5 West_Asian 10.34
6 Siberian 3.05
7 Red_Sea 1.89
8 East_Asian 1.06
9 South_Asian 1.02
10 Amerindian 0.86
11 Sub-Saharan 0.21
Pribislav
12-08-2019, 10:35 PM
"You guys"? Who? I have never claimed anything wrong but always tried to explain the truth. You took it as propaganda.
Armenians don't have South Asian. Moreover, there is nothing to point out she has Armenian ancestry, if there is, it is absorbed. I'm going to suggest to check her West Asian score which is already less than Hungarian average. If she had Gypsy ancestor the South Asian score wouldn't be less than her East Eurasian. Carrying all together is only can be seen either in some Iranic groups or Turks
Do they all have Roma or Armenian ancestry? Both of them Szekely.
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.07
2 North_Atlantic 25.51
3 West_Med 17.29
4 West_Asian 13.16
5 East_Med 9.61
6 Siberian 3.76
7 East_Asian 1.28
8 South_Asian 0.79
9 Red_Sea 0.34
10 Amerindian 0.18
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 27.13
2 Baltic 26.42
3 East_Med 16.19
4 West_Med 11.83
5 West_Asian 10.34
6 Siberian 3.05
7 Red_Sea 1.89
8 East_Asian 1.06
9 South_Asian 1.02
10 Amerindian 0.86
11 Sub-Saharan 0.21
Who is more mongoloid autosomally Szekelys or Balkan Turks?
Kaspias
12-08-2019, 10:37 PM
Who is more mongoloid autosomally Szekelys or Balkan Turks?
Balkan Turks
Ratmir
12-08-2019, 10:40 PM
Hey, isn’t Dodecad K12b generally good for Mongoloid ancestry? I’m not Hungarian but I have seen some Hungarians using that particular calculator.
Cumansky
12-08-2019, 10:41 PM
She is my range of Turkic % even less tbh
My Father is more, but some could be from his distant Russian lineage in his maternal side
Pribislav
12-08-2019, 10:46 PM
Is there any result of Csango Hungarians?
Kaspias
12-08-2019, 10:51 PM
Is there any result of Csango Hungarians?
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.64
2 North_Atlantic 26.96
3 West_Med 13.81
4 East_Med 10.9
5 West_Asian 7.1
6 Red_Sea 3.8
7 Siberian 3.06
8 Amerindian 1.43
9 East_Asian 1.4
10 South_Asian 0.8
11 Northeast_African 0.72
12 Oceanian 0.38
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.81
2 Serbian 6.22
3 Hungarian 6.35
4 Croatian 7.08
5 Romanian 9.75
6 Austrian 10.14
7 East_German 11.05
8 Bulgarian 12.27
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.32
10 South_Polish 13.11
11 Ukrainian 13.84
12 West_German 16.13
13 Polish 16.46
14 Southwest_Russian 17.22
15 South_Dutch 17.43
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.69
17 French 18.5
18 Russian_Smolensk 18.72
19 Tatar 18.73
20 Estonian_Polish 19.15
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Kargopol_Russian + 46.5% Tuscan @ 3.12
2 55.1% Finnish + 44.9% West_Sicilian @ 3.35
3 54.3% Estonian + 45.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.47
4 50.5% Southwest_Finnish + 49.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.5
5 56% Finnish + 44% East_Sicilian @ 3.51
6 52.3% Greek_Thessaly + 47.7% Finnish @ 3.52
7 58.7% Southwest_Finnish + 41.3% East_Sicilian @ 3.52
8 58.7% Finnish + 41.3% South_Italian @ 3.53
9 81.8% Serbian + 18.2% East_Finnish @ 3.54
10 57.9% Southwest_Finnish + 42.1% Central_Greek @ 3.61
11 53% Estonian + 47% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.62
12 51.2% North_Italian + 48.8% Erzya @ 3.63
13 53.8% East_Finnish + 46.2% West_Sicilian @ 3.65
14 52.5% East_Finnish + 47.5% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.67
15 55.2% Finnish + 44.8% Central_Greek @ 3.68
16 53.9% Finnish + 46.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.68
17 70.6% Romanian + 29.4% Finnish @ 3.68
18 50.1% Tuscan + 49.9% East_Finnish @ 3.73
19 81.3% Serbian + 18.7% Finnish @ 3.74
20 80% Serbian + 20% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.76
Pribislav
12-08-2019, 11:04 PM
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.64
2 North_Atlantic 26.96
3 West_Med 13.81
4 East_Med 10.9
5 West_Asian 7.1
6 Red_Sea 3.8
7 Siberian 3.06
8 Amerindian 1.43
9 East_Asian 1.4
10 South_Asian 0.8
11 Northeast_African 0.72
12 Oceanian 0.38
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.81
2 Serbian 6.22
3 Hungarian 6.35
4 Croatian 7.08
5 Romanian 9.75
6 Austrian 10.14
7 East_German 11.05
8 Bulgarian 12.27
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.32
10 South_Polish 13.11
11 Ukrainian 13.84
12 West_German 16.13
13 Polish 16.46
14 Southwest_Russian 17.22
15 South_Dutch 17.43
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.69
17 French 18.5
18 Russian_Smolensk 18.72
19 Tatar 18.73
20 Estonian_Polish 19.15
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Kargopol_Russian + 46.5% Tuscan @ 3.12
2 55.1% Finnish + 44.9% West_Sicilian @ 3.35
3 54.3% Estonian + 45.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.47
4 50.5% Southwest_Finnish + 49.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.5
5 56% Finnish + 44% East_Sicilian @ 3.51
6 52.3% Greek_Thessaly + 47.7% Finnish @ 3.52
7 58.7% Southwest_Finnish + 41.3% East_Sicilian @ 3.52
8 58.7% Finnish + 41.3% South_Italian @ 3.53
9 81.8% Serbian + 18.2% East_Finnish @ 3.54
10 57.9% Southwest_Finnish + 42.1% Central_Greek @ 3.61
11 53% Estonian + 47% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.62
12 51.2% North_Italian + 48.8% Erzya @ 3.63
13 53.8% East_Finnish + 46.2% West_Sicilian @ 3.65
14 52.5% East_Finnish + 47.5% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.67
15 55.2% Finnish + 44.8% Central_Greek @ 3.68
16 53.9% Finnish + 46.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.68
17 70.6% Romanian + 29.4% Finnish @ 3.68
18 50.1% Tuscan + 49.9% East_Finnish @ 3.73
19 81.3% Serbian + 18.7% Finnish @ 3.74
20 80% Serbian + 20% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.76
He has relatively similar component as this Dalmatian Serb.
Baltic 29.3
North_Atlantic 28.69
East_Med 16.26
West_Med 14.98
West_Asian 5.98
Read_Sea 2.86
Siberian 1.51
South_Asian 0.41
Kaspias
12-08-2019, 11:10 PM
He has relatively similar component as this Dalmatian Serb.
Baltic 29.3
North_Atlantic 28.69
East_Med 16.26
West_Med 14.98
West_Asian 5.98
Read_Sea 2.86
Siberian 1.51
South_Asian 0.41
Yes.
@andre perhaps this can explain the situation on your g25 coordinates which we did for your grandmother.
Oh, I'm glad you asked. Of course, there are a lot of examples. First: the looks. I'm pretty sure everybody here knows that we székelys tend to look more "asian". We have that autenthic look that you can tell from far. While hungarians look waaay more mixed. They don't have a standard look. In my class, literally every second person had a surname that ended in -szki, or -vics. Too many slavic and german surnames. And the ones that look asian are really rare. They either have original magyar blood or cuman ancestors.
Now, the mentality is one interesting thing. In my perspective hungarians are depressed, always negative, whiny, sometimes aggressive, always talks big but does nothing, always fights each other. But that doesn't mean they don't have good characterics. But I have really bad experiences with them. They always called me romanian bitch or such names. Calling someone a romanian is an insult here. You can imagine how they hate them. I was really hurt by these words. Honestly, i started to hate them with burning passion. Because it happened way too many times. Szekelys in Hungary usually called like that bye some retarded hungarians.
Now back to the mentality: I think szekelys are friendly,stubborn,hard working, never gives up, if they want something they will get it, hospitable, clever, confident, enjoys the little things, sometimes can be hot headed, and they always stick together. The two peoples are nothing alike if you ask me. I spent half my childhood in Transylvania I know everything about it. Anywhere I went, they always welcomed me like I was their relative. The tables were always full of food and sweets. And overall I like the vibe there. It seems like such a happy place. These are my opinions. Hope I didn't offend anybody lol.:)
Thank you very much for the answer! Interesting read.
I love Szeklerland, such a lovely place. Maybe one day you return to your ancestral place and find happiness there :)
It's not only one. I have seen few Szekelys results who got no 1 Serbian.
Serbs have lower Siberian and East_Asian score than Szekelys, that is a difference.
Yes, she gets it too. Transylvania is very Serbian shifted overall.
ixulescu
12-09-2019, 12:10 AM
Oh, I'm glad you asked. Of course, there are a lot of examples. First: the looks. I'm pretty sure everybody here knows that we székelys tend to look more "asian". We have that autenthic look that you can tell from far. While hungarians look waaay more mixed. They don't have a standard look. In my class, literally every second person had a surname that ended in -szki, or -vics. Too many slavic and german surnames. And the ones that look asian are really rare. They either have original magyar blood or cuman ancestors.
Now, the mentality is one interesting thing. In my perspective hungarians are depressed, always negative, whiny, sometimes aggressive, always talks big but does nothing, always fights each other. But that doesn't mean they don't have good characterics. But I have really bad experiences with them. They always called me romanian bitch or such names. Calling someone a romanian is an insult here. You can imagine how they hate them. I was really hurt by these words. Honestly, i started to hate them with burning passion. Because it happened way too many times. Szekelys in Hungary usually called like that bye some retarded hungarians.
Now back to the mentality: I think szekelys are friendly,stubborn,hard working, never gives up, if they want something they will get it, hospitable, clever, confident, enjoys the little things, sometimes can be hot headed, and they always stick together. The two peoples are nothing alike if you ask me. I spent half my childhood in Transylvania I know everything about it. Anywhere I went, they always welcomed me like I was their relative. The tables were always full of food and sweets. And overall I like the vibe there. It seems like such a happy place. These are my opinions. Hope I didn't offend anybody lol.:)
You should definitely come back. When your parents left Romania times were different. Communists and their immediate successors were inflaming nationalist sentiments to save their own asses. Much has changed since then.
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 01:26 AM
Not necessarily, the problem is you guys claim everything which is eurasian/asian and you forgot that uralic peoples are also eurasians and have similar admixture types. Tons of finno-ugrians have east eurasian genetic, and she have talked about her armenian ancestry, so this south asian can be armenian ancestry too or gypsie (who are not turkic).
Hungarians who post here don't have Ob-Ugric (Khanty or Mansi) in mixed mode populations from GEDmatch calculators except for perhaps one prediction slot, if ever even one, and rarely have Finnish appear. Turkic populations appear all the time. Mr. G just had his father's Hungarian side isolated and nearly all of his populations are Turkic. He posted it in a cool new thread today.
The evidence speaks for itself. Hungarians are predominantly Turkic influenced.
Blondie
12-09-2019, 01:36 AM
Hungarians who post here don't have Ob-Ugric (Khanty or Mansi) in mixed mode populations from GEDmatch calculators except for perhaps one prediction slot, if ever even one, and rarely have Finnish appear. Turkic populations appear all the time. Mr. G just had his father's Hungarian side isolated and nearly all of his populations are Turkic. He posted it in a cool new thread today.
The evidence speaks for itself. Hungarians are predominantly Turkic influenced.
Siberian admixture among hungarians is uralic ancestry, and hungarians are predominantly slavo-germanic, closest to croats, slovaks, czechs, austrians and very far away from any turkic nation.
Mingle
12-09-2019, 01:40 AM
Hungarians who post here don't have Ob-Ugric (Khanty or Mansi) in mixed mode populations from GEDmatch calculators except for perhaps one prediction slot, if ever even one, and rarely have Finnish appear. Turkic populations appear all the time. Mr. G just had his father's Hungarian side isolated and nearly all of his populations are Turkic. He posted it in a cool new thread today.
The evidence speaks for itself. Hungarians are predominantly Turkic influenced.
Its already well known the elite of the Old Hungarians were Turkic. But if their common populace was also mainly Turkic (as opposed to Uralic), then how did they end up speaking a Uralic language? If both your elite and non-elite are Turkic, why speak a Uralic language?
Mingle
12-09-2019, 01:43 AM
Siberian admixture among hungarians is uralic ancestry, and hungarians are predominantly slavo-germanic, closest to croats, slovaks, czechs, austrians and very far away from any turkic nation.
Their exotic ancestry gets modeled as a combination of East Eurasian and South Asian. Uralics wouldn't have had any South Asian DNA in them. Its more likely to be a component that Turks brought with themselves. And if you see the mixed mode models, they use Turkics rather than Uralics. Why is that?
Blondie
12-09-2019, 01:49 AM
Its already well known the elite of the Old Hungarians were Turkic. But if their common populace was also mainly Turkic (as opposed to Uralic), then how did they end up speaking a Uralic language? If both your elite and non-elite are Turkic, why speak a Uralic language?
Very simple because they were not turkic as this larper claim. Nowadays hungarians are slavs with tons of adopted slavic word, they use latin alphabet and german, latin, slavic names, genetically they are closest to slovaks, croats, czechs and no one consider themselves slavic, germanic, or latin.
The problem is this guy thinks the culture and genetic is same with national origin which is bullshit.
Blondie
12-09-2019, 01:57 AM
Just a question will be someone german with 1-5% german genetic? Will be someone japanese with 1-5% japanese genetic? Will be someone black african with 1-5% negroid genetic? Of course no, and by the way being turkic is pure linguistically thing,not genetic and the hungarian language isn't turkic and have never been. There is a world difference between turks and yakuts for example, but their paternal origin is also totally different with different dominant haplogroups. Baskhirs are r1b, yakuts are N, turks are J, kazakhs are C, turkmens are Q etc etc...
If a hungarian consider themselves turkic here in the 21. century with 1-3% turkic genetic thats pure larping and such laughable if you consider yoursef japanese just because you get 1-3% japanese admixture.
Kaspias
12-09-2019, 02:43 AM
Its already well known the elite of the Old Hungarians were Turkic. But if their common populace was also mainly Turkic (as opposed to Uralic), then how did they end up speaking a Uralic language? If both your elite and non-elite are Turkic, why speak a Uralic language?
That's good question to talk about.
When Huns invaded Eastern Europe, in the beginning, their confederation most probably consisted of mostly Turkic tribes. We can understand this because Bulgars emerged from them as only "one" tribe and their population was massive in terms of that time.
Anyway, after they settled mass-migration from Eurasian Steppe were still occurring and Huns needed military power as only super-power in the region. They were giving land to these Asian people to fight for them. Also, we know that the Magyar tribe and Uralic tribes migrated Eastern Europe after Huns which points out that time period.
After wars, year by year, the core population who invaded Eastern Europe reduced and they had to change their political status as state confederation in 434. This was giving political power to the other tribes, too. Attila was able to manage the balance of power successfully. After his death they couldn't be able to do it the same thing, their own men rebelled against them.
Dengizik decided to retreat with the core population who still loyal to them which will be resulted in Bolgars. After their migration, there was political instability in the region for years. Some died as mercenary soldiers, some migrated towards the Balkans and some migrated with their Germanic allies. After Magyar migration, they could gain strength in the region and overpopulated which will bring linguistical conversation afterward.
So, at the beginning of the argument, i only claimed Szekely have Turkic origin because of late migrations. But in the case of Hungary, things are a bit different. Most probably they were a mix of Uralic-Ugric tribes with a bunch of Turkic.
I also think that those Uralic-Ugric tribes may be the source of Slavic input in Hungary.
To sum up, i claim:
-Huns definitely had the Turkic origin but they were a confederation, we can't claim them like all "Huns were Turk." The knowledge which we gained till today points out that their ruler class was also Turk or Turko-Mongol which means the driving force was also Turks.
-Szekely and Csango have Turkic origin because of late Turkic migrations as an addition to their Hungarian roots.
-East Eurasian admixture of Hungarians comes from various sources.
I don't claim:
-Today's Hungarians are Turks.
We can talk about it if you have any opinions.
Kaspias
12-09-2019, 03:01 AM
Siberian admixture among hungarians is uralic ancestry, and hungarians are predominantly slavo-germanic, closest to croats, slovaks, czechs, austrians and very far away from any turkic nation.
What is your comment on these Hungarians who have Q-L332 haplogroup?
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L332/
Q-L332(330) has Hunnic origin, the Xiongnu elite had it. It is also not common as other haplogroups/subclades and can be considered as very rare. They took it most probably from the core Hun population.
You can also check it's father clade:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/
All Russians are Tatars(from Baltics, Volga, and Siberia). Kazakh is from Naiman Tribe and his earliest known paternal ancestor migrated from Western Mongolia as a Turkish speaker. Mongolian one is also Naiman. English one at the bottom is a Jew.(Khazar Khanate?) Also i, my great-grandfather is Turk from Bulgaria.
If their origin is not Turkic, are all these people including me Ugric?
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 04:52 AM
Siberian admixture among hungarians is uralic ancestry, and hungarians are predominantly slavo-germanic, closest to croats, slovaks, czechs, austrians and very far away from any turkic nation.
As usual, you ignored every point I made and proceeded to straw man arguments. I never say or said Hungarians genetically cluster with central Asians. I always said Hungarians cluster with neighbors on average the large majority of the time.
Uyghurs cluster with Chinese and Anatolian Turks cluster with Arabs and Iranians. Does that make them not from Turkic stock as a founding population? Will you have the courage to answer? I hope so, because you resort to lots of name calling to win. Very scientific.
Your bad faith argument relies on constantly divorcing the conquering Hungarians from the modern population, despite studies that say otherwise. You and I both know conquering Hungarians cluster over Bashkirs, and that modern Hungarians are shortest distance from them.
Its already well known the elite of the Old Hungarians were Turkic. But if their common populace was also mainly Turkic (as opposed to Uralic), then how did they end up speaking a Uralic language? If both your elite and non-elite are Turkic, why speak a Uralic language?
You've asked me this so many times. Do you forget what I say? I don't understand why this is confusing. It isn't even unheard of for Tukic peoples to lose their unique branch of Turkic language entirely (which Hungarians have not).
Examples of such people are the Cumans who eventually all spoke Hungarian before being absorbed into the larger population, and the Hazaras, who are a population today in Afghanistan who were founded by Turko-Mongols and are still seen as Turkic despite not speaking a Turkic language.
Is being Turkic just a language classification for you only? If I spoke perfect Japanese, am I Japanese to you? Obviously there are multiple factors, which everyone agrees are important to study, but when Hungarians are involved suddenly anti-Turkic opinion scrambles desperately to the language argument alone for ethnic origins like drowning men on a plank of wood. Culturally, religiously and genetically the founding Hungarians were Turkic and we carry it with us to this day.
Very simple because they were not turkic as this larper claim. Nowadays hungarians are slavs with tons of adopted slavic word, they use latin alphabet and german, latin, slavic names, genetically they are closest to slovaks, croats, czechs and no one consider themselves slavic, germanic, or latin.
The problem is this guy thinks the culture and genetic is same with national origin which is bullshit.
You confuse genetic founder population with modern day clustering all the time. If we agreed with your definition of ethnic classification, which you seem to only apply to us, we would all be Germans or Slavs.
Just a question will be someone german with 1-5% german genetic? Will be someone japanese with 1-5% japanese genetic? Will be someone black african with 1-5% negroid genetic? Of course no, and by the way being turkic is pure linguistically thing,not genetic and the hungarian language isn't turkic and have never been. There is a world difference between turks and yakuts for example, but their paternal origin is also totally different with different dominant haplogroups. Baskhirs are r1b, yakuts are N, turks are J, kazakhs are C, turkmens are Q etc etc...
If a hungarian consider themselves turkic here in the 21. century with 1-3% turkic genetic thats pure larping and such laughable if you consider yoursef japanese just because you get 1-3% japanese admixture.
I remember when you would only use Q to claim Turkic heritage. Good to see you know other Turkic peoples have more than just that, lol.
Nobody bases it off of 1-3% genetics (which again I have more than that regardless, you just like to exaggerate everything in your favor), we base it off of founding culture, genetic continuity, ancestral religion, names, steppe lifestyle, etc.
Even modern Turkics all over the globe see this and embrace us as family. You could stop Hungarians by shaming into ignoring our Turkic side, but you will never stop our Turkic family from remembering our fellow roots. This is why Hungarians will never be stopped.
The reason you hate it so much is because it flies in the face of your own heritage interests and it chafes you to see Hungarians being embraced by fellow Turkics and vice-versa. You can't leave it alone because it bothers you terribly to see Hungarians identify as Turkic, when we don't care nearly as much if some want to identify as Germanic.
What is your comment on these Hungarians who have Q-L332 haplogroup?
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L332/
Q-L332(330) has Hunnic origin, the Xiongnu elite had it. It is also not common as other haplogroups/subclades and can be considered as very rare. They took it most probably from the core Hun population.
You can also check it's father clade:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/
All Russians are Tatars(from Baltics, Volga, and Siberia). Kazakh is from Naiman Tribe and his earliest known paternal ancestor migrated from Western Mongolia as a Turkish speaker. Mongolian one is also Naiman. English one at the bottom is a Jew.(Khazar Khanate?) Also i, my great-grandfather is Turk from Bulgaria.
If their origin is not Turkic, are all these people including me Ugric?
Blondie defines Ugric and Turkic based on whoever she is debating. She doesn't see Hungarians as either because she focuses on the concept of whiteness from a western sense only and doesn't consider founding populations. She claims I say Hungarians (and conquering Hungarians) are some far east Asians and that we cluster with them today, as you can see above. She posts wikipedia links and blogs as scientific evidence and ignores studies like the one from this year showing the Turkic origin of Hungarians overlapping wish Bashkirs, and that the Hungarian kings were illiterate to their own crown that says "King of the Turks" as though Hungarians would have no idea how every settled civilization addressed our ancestors.
For all of the entertainment she provides, unfortunately she is a bad faith actor who is generally not here to debate with good faith.
Mingle
12-09-2019, 05:00 AM
You've asked me this so many times. Do you forget what I say? I don't understand why this is confusing. It isn't even unheard of for Tukic peoples to lose their unique branch of Turkic language entirely (which Hungarians have not).
Examples of such people are the Cumans who eventually all spoke Hungarian before being absorbed into the larger population, and the Hazaras, who are a population today in Afghanistan who were founded by Turko-Mongols and are still seen as Turkic despite not speaking a Turkic language.
My previous assumption was that Hungary's masses were Uralic-speaking and their elite was Turkic-speaking (you agreed with this before). Due to their masses being mostly Uralic-speaking, I assumed this was the reason why they ended up adopting Uralic. But if their masses and elite were both Turkic-speaking, then I wonder how they adopted Uralic.
I know that its possible for people to change languages. My question was how they changed languages if both their masses and their elite were Turkic-speaking. I don't recall asking you that specifically before. Or maybe you misunderstood since you seem to be under the assumption I don't know what language shifting is. But anyways, Kaspias seems to have answered it now.
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 05:18 AM
My previous assumption was that Hungary's masses were Uralic-speaking and their elite was Turkic-speaking (you agreed with this before). Due to their masses being mostly Uralic-speaking, I assumed this was the reason why they ended up adopting Uralic. But if their masses and elite were both Turkic-speaking, then I wonder how they adopted Uralic.
I know that its possible for people to change languages. My question was how they changed languages if both their masses and their elite were Turkic-speaking. I don't recall asking you that specifically before. Or maybe you misunderstood since you seem to be under the assumption I don't know what language shifting is. But anyways, Kaspias seems to have answered it now.
Ah. Ok. So I will clarify this and share my understanding of events of "how".
The Hungarian identity was founded by Turkic peoples, some of whom spoke Turkic and some whom spoke Ugric. Core culture and personal naming and religion and genetics were predominantly Turkic. After collapses of Turkic empires, Hungarians moved progressively west into Uralic areas, where each Magyar tribe grew larger and also picked up more women. Hungarians were very loose knit confederates. It was not until after Khazar collapse that Etelköz unity becomes solidified into the "Hungarian" identity. Hungarians by this time were very bilingual with the majority speaking the Uralic influenced Hungarian, which the Khazar tribes also adopted when they became the Kabars. Settling in the west also changed the lexicon as well as so much time with steppe Slavs, of which Hungarians had constant skirmish, marriages, etc (as written by Islamic scholars who called us Turkics, specifically "Turkmen Magyars"). The Byzantine emperor wrote that Hungarians spoke their own dialect as well as the language of the Khazars.
It is VERY important to note that the Byzantine emperor also calls Khazars "Khazars" in this and Hungarians as "Turks", so even in this we are given the name "Turk" rather than the Khazars.
I remember when some would say that Hungarians have "literally nothing" to do with Turkics. I'm am very pleased to see that this has come a long way.
Mingle
12-09-2019, 06:02 AM
Ah. Ok. So I will clarify this and share my understanding of events of "how".
The Hungarian identity was founded by Turkic peoples, some of whom spoke Turkic and some whom spoke Ugric. Core culture and personal naming and religion and genetics were predominantly Turkic. After collapses of Turkic empires, Hungarians moved progressively west into Uralic areas, where each Magyar tribe grew larger and also picked up more women. Hungarians were very loose knit confederates. It was not until after Khazar collapse that Etelköz unity becomes solidified into the "Hungarian" identity. Hungarians by this time were very bilingual with the majority speaking the Uralic influenced Hungarian, which the Khazar tribes also adopted when they became the Kabars. Settling in the west also changed the lexicon as well as so much time with steppe Slavs, of which Hungarians had constant skirmish, marriages, etc (as written by Islamic scholars who called us Turkics, specifically "Turkmen Magyars"). The Byzantine emperor wrote that Hungarians spoke their own dialect as well as the language of the Khazars.
So Turks/Old Hungarians became bilingual by expanding into Ugric land and mixing with Ugric women? Where is the genetic trace of Ugrics then? Hungarians only get modeled as having minor Turkic ancestry. How much Turkic and how much Ugric ancestry do you think they have?
By the way, unrelated to the current post, keep in mind when looking at ancestral components that not all of the East Eurasian and South Asian could be Turkic related. Some could also be from Slavs and especially Scythians.
Also, why did you remove Turkic from your meta-ethnicity (IIRC it was there before)?
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 06:50 AM
So Turks/Old Hungarians became bilingual by expanding into Ugric land and mixing with Ugric women? Where is the genetic trace of Ugrics then? Hungarians only get modeled as having minor Turkic ancestry. How much Turkic and how much Ugric ancestry do you think they have?
By the way, unrelated to the current post, keep in mind when looking at ancestral components that not all of the East Eurasian and South Asian could be Turkic related. Some could also be from Slavs and especially Scythians.
Also, why did you remove Turkic from your meta-ethnicity (IIRC it was there before)?
Compare Hungarian language to Khanty and Mansi and you will see unique words all our own, that is also not in other Turkic or Ugric. Hungarian is a language of rapid evolution while on steppes because of little consolidation of Hungarian identity pre-Etelköz. Also proto-Ugrics were migratory hunters and fishers, hunting elk and raising reindeer and chasing fish by the season along with gathering foods. While not as nomadic, the idea that the Ob-Ugrics found in locations today having been there forever is false. The genetic isolation of Ugric speakers was never a thing either. I'm sure that the proto-Ugric and proto-Turkic populations have similar genetic exchanges in Siberia and north-central Asia. It would not be until nomadic lifestyle and IE expansion east, followed by Turko-Mongol waves to the west, that you will see large groups change in the map. I would bet most ancient Ugrics (say from 500 CE) are every genetically different from Khanty and Mansi today for the same reasons.
I would also like to point out that the same sources claiming Hungarian as "Ugric" also can't say origin of nearly 1/3 of Hungarian words in references (like the pie chart sometimes posted). I find that humorous, especially in the face of modern genetic clustering studies regarding distances of modern Hungarians, conquering Hungarians, and Bashkirs.
South Asian from Slavs? Can you explain? Proto-Slavic and IE expansion?
Scythians make sense and need no explanation.
Also I never had Turkic listed in meta ethnicity. Only as a permission group label, which you can see above. I've always used this avatar and these groups. Once the Magyar group tag was available, I then added that as well. I've always left my profile relatively blank and have changed nothing else besides adding the new Magyar group label.
Mingle
12-09-2019, 07:05 AM
Compare Hungarian language to Khanty and Mansi and you will see unique words all our own, that is also not in other Turkic or Ugric. Hungarian is a language of rapid evolution while on steppes because of little consolidation of Hungarian identity pre-Etelköz. Also proto-Ugrics were migratory hunters and fishers, hunting elk and raising reindeer and chasing fish by the season along with gathering foods. While not as nomadic, the idea that the Ob-Ugrics found in locations today having been there forever is false. The genetic isolation of Ugric speakers was never a thing either. I'm sure that the proto-Ugric and proto-Turkic populations have similar genetic exchanges in Siberia and north-central Asia. It would not be until nomadic lifestyle and IE expansion east, followed by Turko-Mongol waves to the west, that you will see large groups change in the map. I would bet most ancient Ugrics (say from 500 CE) are every genetically different from Khanty and Mansi today for the same reasons.
You make a good point here but it contradicts your previous post where you seemed to try to downplay the genetic impact of Ugrics:
Hungarians who post here don't have Ob-Ugric (Khanty or Mansi) in mixed mode populations from GEDmatch calculators except for perhaps one prediction slot, if ever even one, and rarely have Finnish appear. Turkic populations appear all the time. Mr. G just had his father's Hungarian side isolated and nearly all of his populations are Turkic. He posted it in a cool new thread today.
If they were genetically different from Khantys and Mansis, I don't see the point in bringing them up in a previous post.
Not trying to attack you, you seem like a decent user. Just trying to understand your viewpoint better.
South Asian from Slavs? Can you explain? Proto-Slavic and IE expansion?
Scythians make sense and need no explanation.
I was assigning both EEA and SA collectively to Scythians and Slavs. Some EEA could've come from Slavs while some EEA+SA could've come from Scythians is what I meant.
Also I never had Turkic listed in meta ethnicity. Only as a permission group label, which you can see above. I've always used this avatar and these groups. Once the Magyar group tag was available, I then added that as well. I've always left my profile relatively blank and have changed nothing else besides adding the new Magyar group label.
Okay. I guess I misremembered. Why not add it then since you consider yourself Turkic?
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 07:31 AM
You make a good point here but it contradicts your previous post where you seemed to try to downplay the genetic impact of Ugrics:
Hungarians who post here don't have Ob-Ugric (Khanty or Mansi) in mixed mode populations from GEDmatch calculators except for perhaps one prediction slot, if ever even one, and rarely have Finnish appear. Turkic populations appear all the time. Mr. G just had his father's Hungarian side isolated and nearly all of his populations are Turkic. He posted it in a cool new thread today.
If they were genetically different from Khantys and Mansis, I don't see the point in bringing them up in a previous post.
Not trying to attack you, you seem like a decent user. Just trying to understand your viewpoint better.
I was assigning both EEA and SA collectively to Scythians and Slavs. Some EEA could've come from Slavs while some EEA+SA could've come from Scythians is what I meant.
Okay. I guess I misremembered. Why not add it then since you consider yourself Turkic?
Because again, were confusing these "Ugrics" of 1000 years ago with Ugrics of today. I'm talking about modern populations in mixed mode GEDmatch, not ancient GEDmatch kit comparisons. I see no contradictions. You need to look at the entire point. It is a poor analysis tactic to look at one point and act as though it was the only thing said. It's like reading a cake recipe, the using only the first three ingredients and complaining why it came out so poorly. It all flows as a line of logic.
Same reason why Uyghurs today would be so different from Balkan Turks like say, Gagauz people. Looking at them isolated youd see no relation but you need to trace back. This is why one or two users are so hung up on the need for "east Asian" input as Turkic. It is a sort of goalpost moving that puts onus on the claimer looking silly for not having a strongly East Asian phenotype (a stereotype of Turkics which anthropology and Scythian Altai felt has proven wrong), when not even looking at origin populations. It's a form of identity destruction because then nobody is Turkic and the "true" Turkics are now Mongols. Nobody would say Germanics aren't related to proto-Nordic peoples and battle axe culture from Sweden, but will twist their spines to separate Hungarians from anything Turkic.
As far as the minimalist profile goes, it is purely aesthetic reasons. I like the look of the Turkic population group runes (some of which we share) and really love hot peppers and natural spicy food, so I use the Magyar group as well. I don't want to be too redundant also. If people want to know about me, they can just ask. I'm generally open to talk about whatever, but prefer such talk to be in PM. It feels more personal and respectful that way and not necessarily "performative" like a public post could be seen.
Those must be leftists or kids discriminating Szekely in Hungary. Hungarians I know would never say anything similar. Same happens to Bosnian Croats in Croatia by Croatian leftists. They call them Bosnian Catholics.
Best to ignore such retards.
Hungarians who post here don't have Ob-Ugric (Khanty or Mansi) in mixed mode populations from GEDmatch calculators except for perhaps one prediction slot, if ever even one, and rarely have Finnish appear. Turkic populations appear all the time. Mr. G just had his father's Hungarian side isolated and nearly all of his populations are Turkic. He posted it in a cool new thread today.
The evidence speaks for itself. Hungarians are predominantly Turkic influenced.
Stears almost always gets Finno-Ugric populations in Oracles , but also Iranic and Turkic.
He gets Mordvins, Udmurts, Finns, Karelians etc.
Bashkirs and Volga Tatars conquerors were closest too have lot of Uralic admixture genetically. They are Uralo-Turkic-Indo-European mix.
Between those 2 Bashkirs are more Turkic group.
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 08:58 AM
Those must be leftists or kids discriminating Szekely in Hungary. Hungarians I know would never say anything similar. Same happens to Bosnian Croats in Croatia by Croatian leftists. They call them Bosnian Catholics.
Best to ignore such retards.
Exactly. The classic bad-faith action. The left does this online as well, pretending to be an ethnicity of someone then treat a co-ethnic like garbage in order to stir up trouble. Hungary is not immune from this, which is why it is important to aim higher than Hungarians who hate their own ethnicity.
Stears almost always gets Finno-Ugric populations in Oracles , but also Iranic and Turkic.
He gets Mordvins, Udmurts, Finns, Karelians etc.
Bashkirs and Volga Tatars conquerors were closest too have lot of Uralic admixture genetically. They are Uralo-Turkic-Indo-European mix.
Between those 2 Bashkirs are more Turkic group.
Stears is a unique case if his nobility ancestry is confirmed throughout the generations. I have no idea how well documented it is, but he would have more Uralic-Turkic balance because of the preservation of the arriving Hungarians rather than the German-Slavic peoples. He could be the classic case of Turkic father, Uralic mother (the intergenerational concept, of course). But this is all theory and I don't expect a 1000 year pedigree for him, let alone him posting it on a public forum.
Blondie
12-09-2019, 09:34 AM
Does that make them not from Turkic stock as a founding population?
The difference is uyghurs and anatolian turks speak a turkic language unlike hungarians. The language shows your real origin, where your oldest ancestors came from and there is no proof that hungarians were originally turkic speakers who adopted uralic language later as you claim. The hungarian language has much more uralic than turkic word, the grammar is also closer to other uralic speakers, you can check it:
https://www.academia.edu/11616679/Kenesei_Istv%C3%A1n_Nyelv_%C3%A9s_nyelvek_TARTALOM
You and I both know conquering Hungarians cluster over Bashkirs, and that modern Hungarians are shortest distance from them.
I doesn't mean hungarians were baskhirs or baskhirs were hungarians, since they had totally different paternal origin, baskhirs are/were 80% r1b:
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/WorldHaplogroupsMaps/BashkortY_DNA.gif
Old magyars had 4-5 different paternal ancestry and were not so homogenous than baskhirs. So it means nothing if baskhirs are closest turkic nation to hungarians because hungarians and baskhirs have never been same population and baskhirs are very isolated nation among turkics with clearn different non turkic paternal origin, their 80% r1b proves it.
Is being Turkic just a language classification for you only? If I spoke perfect Japanese, am I Japanese to you?
Turkics and japanese are two totally different case because Japan is an isolated nation with homogenous genetic, turkics mixed with others a lot, that's why in the 21. century being turkic only linguistically thing.
Culturally, religiously and genetically the founding Hungarians were Turkic and we carry it with us to this day.
Just because nomad hungarians mixed with turkics later and they adopted their culture (because khazars opressed and elslaved them), it doesn't mean the hungarian nation was originally turkic. And the conquerors had uralic genetic too (Tat C allel) i don't know why are you always deny it:
http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/1386/1/PhDertekezes_CsanyiB.pdf
Other source:
"Among the modern individuals, only one Szekler carries the Tat C allele, whereas out of the four skeletal remains, two possess the allele. The latter finding, even allowing for the low sample number, appears to indicate a Siberian lineage of the invading Hungarians, which later has largely disappeared."
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2008.00440.x
So nomad hungarians were uralic-turkic mixed not only turkic as you claim.
I remember when you would only use Q to claim Turkic heritage. Good to see you know other Turkic peoples have more than just that, lol.
Because modern turkic peoples are mixed population, or do you think they are 100% pure or something? lol
Nobody bases it off of 1-3% genetics (which again I have more than that regardless, you just like to exaggerate everything in your favor), we base it off of founding culture, genetic continuity, ancestral religion, names, steppe lifestyle, etc.
You got 3 or 4% turkic genetic, Kökény got 1,5% turkic genetic which is totally insignificant. Romanians, ukrainians, russians have much more and it doesn't make them turkic.
Only a minority of old hungarians had turkic names, most of old magyar names aren't turkic this is the complete list:
http://nevnaplap.hu/osi-magyar-eredetu-fiu-es-ferfinevek-listaja/
Even the father of hungarians Álmos had uralic name, and his name came from the uralic "alamu" word.
You could stop Hungarians by shaming into ignoring our Turkic side, but you will never stop our Turkic family from remembering our fellow roots.
You are lying, the difference between us i have never denied that conquerors had turkic roots too, you deny the uralic part like here and as always.
The reason you hate it so much is because it flies in the face of your own heritage interests and it chafes you to see Hungarians being embraced by fellow Turkics and vice-versa. You can't leave it alone because it bothers you terribly to see Hungarians identify as Turkic, when we don't care nearly as much if some want to identify as Germanic.
Another lying i don't hate turkics, pls quote me when i insulted turks or turkics here. You can't, because i never did it. And my problem is not your turkic identity, i always say it but you don't understand, my problem is when you want to force your turkic identity to other hungarians and the complete hungarian nation. I will always be proud of my 1/4 hungarian ancestry, that's why i argue with you, but i will never let your turkic propaganda and pseudo history.
Hungary is one of the oldest country in Europe with european christian statehood, culture and everything, hungarians belong to Europe in every way, Kingdom of Hungary was shield of Europe in the history against tatars, ottomans etc, this is what hungarians can be proud of and not of turkics who raped, enslaved and massacred millions of hungarians, who haven't give Hungary anything only opression, destruction, rape, robbery etc. If you prefer turks, central asians over other europeans that get out of Europe because it totally against the idea of St. Stephen and his hungarian statehood where we live. I remember when you posted turks from Turkey as "hungarians" to prove hungarians and turks look similar and are turanist, i debunked you with google search, it was great burning and of course now you deny it....
She doesn't see Hungarians as either because she focuses on the concept of whiteness from a western sense only and doesn't consider founding populations.
Another lying i'm not white nationalist, and you are who doesn't consider founding population when you deny their uralic part, because it don't pass your propaganda.
She claims I say Hungarians (and conquering Hungarians) are some far east Asians
I have never said it.
She posts wikipedia links and blogs as scientific evidence and ignores studies
Another lying, i posted academic sources this is another question that you always ignore it. By the way the wikipedia is 10000 times more scientific than your byzantine emperror who called hungarians turkic and who had no real scientific education, who have never been in the steppe, who knew nothing about steppe peoples.... The slavic Nestor's chronicle is more acceptable because these slavs were neighbours of hungarians (unlike your sources so arabs, greeks and byzantines) and slavs called nomad hungarians ugric:
http://publicatio.bibl.u-szeged.hu/6261/1/MOK_30_nyomda_beliv.pdf
Other funny fact, hungarians didn't called themselves turkic never in the history, there is no any medieval hungarian source when hungarians called themselves turkic.
I agree core of Hungarians was Ugric-Uralic. Conquerors came tousands of years later and they were already totally different population, not to mention modern Hungarians. But language remained, and tiny bit of genetics (which is astonishing since Hungarians separated from other Finno-Ugrics several tousands years ago)
Blondie
12-09-2019, 09:48 AM
One day Hungary will join the Turkic council as a full member. I will celebrate greatly.
It's totally against the 1000 years old St. Stephen's statehood what you hate so much.
Hungarians which reject Turkic heritage are usually expressing (knowingly or not) their desire to be western (usually for economy reasons and sometimes succumbing to anti-Hungarian propaganda)
These hungarians are real hungarian nationalist who aren't lick these turkic opressors ass as you. The hungarian patriotism is same with such names like Dobó, Hunyadi who were turk beaters, St. Stephen who created this country and it's statehood, Széchenyi and his western idea who modernized Hungary in the 19. century, such western oriented poets like Ady, Karinthy, Babits, Kosztolányi, Móricz etc etc.
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 09:55 AM
I agree core of Hungarians was Ugric-Uralic. Conquerors came tousands of years later and they were already totally different population, not to mention modern Hungarians. But language remained, and tiny bit of genetics (which is astonishing since Hungarians separated from other Finno-Ugrics several tousands years ago)
I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Conquerors came where? How long ago? I remember your thread, who do you see again as Turkic Hungarians? The conquerors and their women?
I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Conquerors came where? How long ago? I remember your thread, who do you see again as Turkic Hungarians? The conquerors and their women?
Conquerors appeared tousands of years after Ugric ancestors of Hungarians left Siberian forests. They already had huge Iranic, Turkic and even Gothic genetic and cultural influence. Also some Kabars came with them.
After Ugrics left western Siberia they moved to Eurasian steppe (probably as far eastern as Kazakh steppe), and from steppe they came to eastern (Volga region, later Ukraine) and finally central Europe. Lot of archeological and linguistic evidence for that.
When it comes to age, Turkic linguistic influence is younger than Ugric (oldest layer of Hungarian language) and Iranic (second oldest) substratum.
Goes like this: Ugric>Iranic>Turkic>Germanic+Slavic
(with German loans being latest due to Swabians)
Hajimurad
12-09-2019, 10:49 AM
I think Szekelys, along with Changosh best preserved true Magyar genetics. They descended from Magyar and Khazar tribes settled initially in Northern Transylvania as borderers. At 13th century they were moved to South Transylvania and their former lands were given to Saxon colonists. Changosh were split from Szekelys and settled in Moldova. Because Hungarians were Calvinists, Germans- Lutherans and Romanians - Orthodox, there are were few intermarriages.
Blondie
12-09-2019, 11:01 AM
I think Szekelys, along with Changosh best preserved true Magyar genetics. They descended from Magyar and Khazar tribes settled initially in Northern Transylvania as borderers.
Székelys have obviously real turkic origin, their flags, their high % haplogroup Q proves it, but hungarian ethnicites are not same. For example jassic hungarians have iranic origin, hungarian from Csallóköz (soth west Slovakia) had high % uralic N haplogroup. Nomad hungarian were confederation of various tribes uralic, turkic, iranic, germanic etc, so jsut because Székelys has turkic origin it doesn't mean the complete hungarian nation is turkic.
At 13th century they were moved to South Transylvania and their former lands were given to Saxon colonists.
The problem with that according to medieval sources for example Gesta hungarorum, székelys were in Carpathian Basin long before hungarians have arrived.
Because Hungarians were Calvinists, Germans- Lutherans and Romanians - Orthodox, there are were few intermarriages.
This is not true majority of székelys and hungarians are catholic not calvinist and székelys mixed with saxons and romanians a lot, that's why Kökény has typical romanian genetic.
Vlach genetics in Szekely is probably very old. Stears has no Romanian ancestors and his father probably plotted similar.
It could be from Slavic population Szekely absorbed upon settlement in Transylvania (lot of Slavic toponyms in Szeklerland) which was already very Vlach admixed and similar to south Slavs.
Kökény
12-09-2019, 11:23 AM
Vlach genetics in Szekely is probably very old. Stears has no Romanian ancestors and his father probably plotted similar.
It could be from Slavic population Szekely absorbed upon settlement in Transylvania (lot of Slavic toponyms in Szeklerland) which was already very Vlach admixed and similar to south Slavs.
I think so too. It has to be older. In fact, I traced back my family tree until 1800, on both sides. The earliest mention of my surname so far, is from 1720.
All my ancestors were szeklers in the last 200 years. I have no known romanian ancestor. But maybe there could be one.
It's just so far back in time that I can't dig it up. :)
Carpatz
12-09-2019, 11:31 AM
Assimilated local Romanians make up the core of the Szekely ethnos. What differentiates them from Romanians is that they also assimilated Germans, as well as some minor ancestry from early Magyars.
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 11:42 AM
The difference is uyghurs and anatolian turks speak a turkic language unlike hungarians. The language shows your real origin, where your oldest ancestors came from and there is no proof that hungarians were originally turkic speakers who adopted uralic language later as you claim.
So you think that language, not genetics, is the ultimate deciding factor of modern national origins of historic populations? That the language spoken by a person or a population shows who their ancestors were 1000 years ago?
I never thought that I would hear this language argument from you, of all people. You have genuinely surprised me.
I doesn't mean hungarians were baskhirs or baskhirs were hungarians, since they had totally different paternal origin, baskhirs are/were 80% r1b:
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/WorldHaplogroupsMaps/BashkortY_DNA.gif
Old magyars had 4-5 different paternal ancestry and were not so homogenous than baskhirs. So it means nothing if baskhirs are closest turkic nation to hungarians because hungarians and baskhirs have never been same population and baskhirs are very isolated nation among turkics with clearn different non turkic paternal origin, their 80% r1b proves it.
Why even bother posting this when you just finished declaring language as the ultimate decider? When there are linguists (Hungarian and non Hungarians) today who consider Hungarian Turkic or at least related to Turkic in a major way, does that mean that they are right?
If two people can take the same evidence and come to radically different conclusions, clearly there is an issue in the methodology (unless there is bad-faith involved). You just said language is what matters most, so why even say anything about haplogroups?
Also, again, do you really think that each ethnic group begins with only one major haplogroup? The Hungarian identity was born out of the Turkic confederate identity, in the same style. It was not until our tribes grew in size and military strength that consolidation under Árpád happened and Hungarian identity became more "streamlined" and uniform.
Just because nomad hungarians mixed with turkics later and they adopted their culture (because khazars opressed and elslaved them), it doesn't mean the hungarian nation was originally turkic. And the conquerors had uralic genetic too (Tat C allel) i don't know why are you always deny it:
You and I have literally never once talked about Tat C in DNA. Literally never have we debated this together where we talk about it. Find our posts where we did. I dare you. The only thing you never post about such is wikipedia quotes.
So nomad hungarians were uralic-turkic mixed not only turkic as you claim.
You are lying, the difference between us i have never denied that conquerors had turkic roots too, you deny the uralic part like here and as always.
Gas lighting argument to the extreme extent; you or anyone taking this point seriously must be blind to my posts in this very thread where I address this with Mingle, and have done so for years before you were even a forum member.
Because modern turkic peoples are mixed population, or do you think they are 100% pure or something? lol
Just like modern Hungarians, who have mixed with other Turkic peoples for centuries. No population on the planet that has had contact with others is "pure", we can only debate where to draw the line on where red ends and orange begins.
You got 3 or 4% turkic genetic, Kökény got 1,5% turkic genetic which is totally insignificant. Romanians, ukrainians, russians have much more and it doesn't make them turkic.
Only a minority of old hungarians had turkic names, most of old magyar names aren't turkic this is the complete list:
http://nevnaplap.hu/osi-magyar-eredetu-fiu-es-ferfinevek-listaja/
Even the father of hungarians Álmos had uralic name, and his name came from the uralic "alamu" word.
The names of the pre-Christian Magyars were Turkic. Ügyek is the earliest known member of the Árpád dynasty, during a time when the various Magyar Turkic tribes were still deep in Asia. György Györffy, Hungarian historian and member of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences states that Ügyek is a Turkic name, similar to Öge/Üge, meaning wise, or sage or councilor. It is also thought to be related to the name Üge, which who was the last ruler of the Uyghur Khaganate. Emese was his wife, described as a Scythian princess, has her name derive from the Turkic word for mother, Eme, Ana, or Ene.
Álmos is Turkic; Doctor András Róna-Tas, Turkologist and member of science academy talked about the etymology of Emese and Álmos along with Victor Spinei, professor of history and archaeology at the Romanian Alexandru Ioan Cuza University, stating that they are both undoubtedly Turkic in origin.
The first Magyar grand prince to adopt Christianity was Géza, also known as Gyeücsa. His name is stated by Professors Pál Engel and Gyula Kristó to be of Turkic origin, specifically derived from the diminutive form of the Turkic title yabgu. He began his reign around 972, along with his wife, Sarolt, who was from Transylvania, where she ruled over some Slavic subjects who called her Beleknegini, meaning white queen. Her Turkic name means white weasel. Vajk, her son, was baptized with the Christian name István, which began the the separation from Turkic names. His Turkic name is derived from Turkic baj, meaning hero, prince, or true man. Vajk defeated a blood relative challenger to his rule in battle, and was elevated to become the first king of Hungary. He was given a crown by the Catholic Pope, and was made a Saint.
SOURCES
Kristó, Gyula Hungarian History in the Ninth Century. Szegedi Középkorász Műhely
Kristó, Gyula (1994). "Géza". In Kristó, Gyula; Engel, Pál; Makk, Ferenc. Korai magyar történeti lexikon (914. század) [=Encyclopedia of the Early Hungarian History (9th-14th centuries)] (in Hungarian). Akadémiai Kiadó. p. 235. ISBN 963-05-6722-9.
Thietmar of Merseburg: Chronicon
Györffy, György (1994). King Saint Stephen of Hungary. Atlantic Research and Publications. ISBN 978-0-88033-300-9.
Engel, Pál (2001). The Realm of St Stephen: A History of Medieval Hungary, 8951526. I.B. Tauris Publishers. ISBN 978-1-86064-061-2.
Another lying i'm not white nationalist, and you are who doesn't consider founding population when you deny their uralic part, because it don't pass your propaganda.
Did I call you a white nationalist in that post? No, I did not. Again, making an issue and fighting against something I never said (straw man argument). Historically we have been seen as non-white (mostly by Germans on ethnographic maps) but it is obvious that we are "white", what I say is I don't care about being called white or yellow or whatever.
Another lying i don't hate turkics, pls quote me when i insulted turks or turkics here. You can't, because i never did it. And my problem is not your turkic identity, i always say it but you don't understand, my problem is when you want to force your turkic identity to other hungarians and the complete hungarian nation. I will always be proud of my 1/4 hungarian ancestry, that's why i argue with you, but i will never let your turkic propaganda and pseudo history.
Hungary is one of the oldest country in Europe with european christian statehood, culture and everything, hungarians belong to Europe in every way, Kingdom of Hungary was shield of Europe in the history against tatars, ottomans etc, this is what hungarians can be proud of and not of turkics who raped, enslaved and massacred millions of hungarians, who haven't give Hungary anything only opression, destruction, rape, robbery etc. If you prefer turks, central asians over other europeans that get out of Europe because it totally against the idea of St. Stephen and his hungarian statehood where we live. I remember when you posted turks from Turkey as "hungarians" to prove hungarians and turks look similar and are turanist, i debunked you with google search, it was great burning and of course now you deny it....
Misrepresenting me again and again, as I have explained.
See post 94 here......
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?302764-Hungary-Reportedly-Opposed-EU-Declaration-on-Turkey-At-First/page10&highlight=hunyadi
Never said that at all. Please point to where I have anywhere on the forum, and I will pack up my yurt and move to Central Asia and leave Hungary to the real Hungarians, like the Karl Schmidts and Greta Lundbergs of the world.
I could accuse you the same, that you hate Hapsburg beaters, who fought against them frequently with Turkish support. But I don't accuse you of this, because I appreciate intellectual honesty in a conversation, no matter how happy you would have been living in 1849 and hearing that Hungary was brought back into the Hapsburg fold.
I don't like Empires, regardless of who runs them. I would be pro-Hungarian freedom from Ottomans just like I would be from Hapsburgs.
Turul: She claims I say Hungarians (and conquering Hungarians) are some far east Asians
Blondie: I have never said it.
Lies upon lies because all you can do is hope people don't remember when you argue against them in bad faith, which you do with me frequently. I don't consider Hungarians or conquering Hungarians "non-white mongoloids", and don't consider myself "Mongol" either. You just like to misrepresent me.
SOURCES:
post 23
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?306278-Turanic-Brotherhood/page3
post 39
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?306278-Turanic-Brotherhood/page4
https://i.imgur.com/Vs1TNnF.png
https://i.imgur.com/jLjDRk9.png
Another lying, i posted academic sources this is another question that you always ignore it. By the way the wikipedia is 10000 times more scientific than your byzantine emperror who called hungarians turkic and who had no real scientific education, who have never been in the steppe, who knew nothing about steppe peoples.... The slavic Nestor's chronicle is more acceptable because these slavs were neighbours of hungarians (unlike your sources so arabs, greeks and byzantines) and slavs called nomad hungarians ugric:
http://publicatio.bibl.u-szeged.hu/6261/1/MOK_30_nyomda_beliv.pdf
Other funny fact, hungarians didn't called themselves turkic never in the history, there is no any medieval hungarian source when hungarians called themselves turkic.
It's totally against the 1000 years old St. Stephen's statehood what you hate so much.
These hungarians are real hungarian nationalist who aren't lick these turkic opressors ass as you. The hungarian patriotism is same with such names like Dobó, Hunyadi who were turk beaters, St. Stephen who created this country and it's statehood, Széchenyi and his western idea who modernized Hungary in the 19. century, such western oriented poets like Ady, Karinthy, Babits, Kosztolányi, Móricz etc etc.
Kossuth drew up an entire battle plan to reclaim Hungary from the Imperial stranglehold while under protection of the Ottoman Empire, which was to be done with the help of Turkish soldiers and Shamil the Avar and 80,000 riders.
I don't like Empires, regardless of who runs them. I would be pro-Hungarian freedom from Ottomans just like I would be from Hapsburgs.
You will always represent me falsely in this way because your only hope is to call back negative Ottoman experiences when Hungarians had much longer under Habsburg boot than as part of the Ottoman Empire. Difference is that while I still think Germanic history is interesting and cool, you can't rationalize that Hungary has been oppressed by so many Empires largely because of the non-Euro outlook they had regarding us, and this was far before Turanism was ever a political concept.
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 12:30 PM
Conquerors appeared tousands of years after Ugric ancestors of Hungarians left Siberian forests. They already had huge Iranic, Turkic and even Gothic genetic and cultural influence. Also some Kabars came with them.
After Ugrics left western Siberia they moved to Eurasian steppe (probably as far eastern as Kazakh steppe), and from steppe they came to eastern (Volga region, later Ukraine) and finally central Europe. Lot of archeological and linguistic evidence for that.
When it comes to age, Turkic linguistic influence is younger than Ugric (oldest layer of Hungarian language) and Iranic (second oldest) substratum.
Goes like this: Ugric>Iranic>Turkic>Germanic+Slavic
(with German loans being latest due to Swabians)
You say "Ugric" ancestors of Hungarians, ok, but what about the Turkic ancestors? The Hungarian identity was a tribal mix-up of Turkics (who were apparently in this scenario you are mentioning, the conquering elite) and Uralics, primarily Ugrics. Therefore could we not also say, "The Turkic-speaking ancestors of the Hungarians mixed with the Ugric speaking ancestors of the Hungarians"?
See now, this is very important because it is all about the concept of identity, where to draw a line where an ethnicity becomes "a thing". Because if we keep going back to proto-Hungarians, and proto-proto-Hungarians, and proto-proto-proto-Hungarians, etc, we will be back in Africa at some point. Even saying that just the Turkic Hungarians were the leading elite, shows that it is the Turkics that led Hungary to greatness where we are today, doesn't it? It places them as arguably the most "Hungarian" because of their primacy.
This, to be clear, isn't my idea of how the events went. This is just a question for you as a thought experiment as what it means to have a Turkic elite class that sets culture, religion, naming, etc during the very formation of the Hungarian identity (which I define as when tribes were consolidate under Árpád, or potentially far back as Ügyek).
I would like your thoughts.
Blondie
12-09-2019, 12:31 PM
Assimilated local Romanians make up the core of the Szekely ethnos. What differentiates them from Romanians is that they also assimilated Germans, as well as some minor ancestry from early Magyars.
Romanians are similar to hungarians in this case. Modern romanians are latinized slavs and paleo balkanites not ethnic latins. The romanian and hungarian nation are based on language and culture not on original genetic ancestry.
You say "Ugric" ancestors of Hungarians, ok, but what about the Turkic ancestors? The Hungarian identity was a tribal mix-up of Turkics (who were apparently in this scenario you are mentioning, the conquering elite) and Uralics, primarily Ugrics. Therefore could we not also say, "The Turkic-speaking ancestors of the Hungarians mixed with the Ugric speaking ancestors of the Hungarians"?
See now, this is very important because it is all about the concept of identity, where to draw a line where an ethnicity becomes "a thing". Because if we keep going back to proto-Hungarians, and proto-proto-Hungarians, and proto-proto-proto-Hungarians, etc, we will be back in Africa at some point. Even saying that just the Turkic Hungarians were the leading elite, shows that it is the Turkics that led Hungary to greatness where we are today, doesn't it? It places them as arguably the most "Hungarian" because of their primacy.
This, to be clear, isn't my idea of how the events went. This is just a question for you as a thought experiment as what it means to have a Turkic elite class that sets culture, religion, naming, etc during the very formation of the Hungarian identity (which I define as when tribes were consolidate under Árpád, or potentially far back as Ügyek).
I would like your thoughts.
I guess Hungarians as ethnicity formed at Etelköz, and their Ugric ancestors were sort of pre-Hungarians, not Magyars yet. Magna Hungaria was proto-Hungarian stage in between those two?
Here is a good map:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Hungarian_migration.png
Ugrics mixed with Scythians first, than with Turks. I don't think Ugrics were important ethnic element in stage when Hungarians were consolidating as ethnicity (too much time has passed), but language remained.
Already in steppes Ugric element gradually faded to become minor one while Iranic and Turkic became more prominent (especially Turkic, since it came last), that is my guess.
Turul Karom
12-09-2019, 12:58 PM
I guess Hungarians as ethnicity formed at Etelköz, and their Ugric ancestors were sort of pre-Hungarians, not Magyars yet. Magna Hungaria was proto-Hungarian stage in between those two?
Ugrics mixed with Scythians first, than with Turks. I don't think Ugrics were important ethnic element in stage when Hungarians were consolidating as ethnicity (too much time has passed), but language remained.
Only minor remains.
I actually have that map saved, it is an interesting map. But I would like to address, that your map seems to focus on talking about possible Ugrics who went into the Magyar identity, not the Turkics.
Sources from history are very specific that Árpád dynasty was elected "from their own", and not from the Khazars. So where did this Turkic elite class come from?
If we are going to say that there was a fusion, and not a language shift during migration and acquiring of new tribesmen and women (which is my theory instead of only Turkics as part of elite), then where did the Turkic element come from to gain the Hungarian identity as well? If they did not see themselves as superior to the non-Turkics they conquered/ruled/etc based on ethnicity, then how could this Turkic elite be any different from the masses?
They would be the arbiters of Hungarian identity.
Kaspias
12-09-2019, 02:16 PM
.
Why you ignored my posts? :confused:
Blondie
12-09-2019, 02:25 PM
Why you ignored my posts? :confused:
Because what should i say for that?
What is your comment on these Hungarians who have Q-L332 haplogroup?
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L332/
Q-L332(330) has Hunnic origin, the Xiongnu elite had it. It is also not common as other haplogroups/subclades and can be considered as very rare. They took it most probably from the core Hun population.
You can also check it's father clade:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/
All Russians are Tatars(from Baltics, Volga, and Siberia). Kazakh is from Naiman Tribe and his earliest known paternal ancestor migrated from Western Mongolia as a Turkish speaker. Mongolian one is also Naiman. English one at the bottom is a Jew.(Khazar Khanate?) Also i, my great-grandfather is Turk from Bulgaria.
If their origin is not Turkic, are all these people including me Ugric?
I said millions of times: haplogroup Q is turkic, if any hungarian had such haplogroup that's turkic paternal origin. Székelys have 4-5% Q, which is relative very high number in Europe, so székelys have turkic origin, i have never denied it. But székelys are not equal with every hungarian, it's a very unique hungarian ethnic group with different origin myth, different hynm, different flag etc and they were always privilegized among hungarians. I think székelys are the one and only last direct remnants of huns.
Kaspias
12-09-2019, 02:34 PM
Because what should i say for that?
I said millions of times: haplogroup Q is turkic, if any hungarian had such haplogroup that's turkic paternal origin. Székelys have 4-5% Q, which is relative very high number in Europe, so székelys have turkic origin, i have never denied it. But székelys are not equal with every hungarian, it's a very unique hungarian ethnic group with different origin myth, different hynm, different flag etc and they were always privilegized among hungarians.
Yeah, but the Hungarians who have Q-L332 in that link is not Szekely.
I think i explained myself enough in these posts:
"You guys"? Who? I have never claimed anything wrong but always tried to explain the truth. You took it as propaganda.
Armenians don't have South Asian. Moreover, there is nothing to point out she has Armenian ancestry, if there is, it is absorbed. I'm going to suggest to check her West Asian score which is already less than Hungarian average. If she had Gypsy ancestor the South Asian score wouldn't be less than her East Eurasian. Carrying all together is only can be seen either in some Iranic groups or Turks
Do they all have Roma or Armenian ancestry? Both of them Szekely.
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.07
2 North_Atlantic 25.51
3 West_Med 17.29
4 West_Asian 13.16
5 East_Med 9.61
6 Siberian 3.76
7 East_Asian 1.28
8 South_Asian 0.79
9 Red_Sea 0.34
10 Amerindian 0.18
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 27.13
2 Baltic 26.42
3 East_Med 16.19
4 West_Med 11.83
5 West_Asian 10.34
6 Siberian 3.05
7 Red_Sea 1.89
8 East_Asian 1.06
9 South_Asian 1.02
10 Amerindian 0.86
11 Sub-Saharan 0.21
That's good question to talk about.
When Huns invaded Eastern Europe, in the beginning, their confederation most probably consisted of mostly Turkic tribes. We can understand this because Bulgars emerged from them as only "one" tribe and their population was massive in terms of that time.
Anyway, after they settled mass-migration from Eurasian Steppe were still occurring and Huns needed military power as only super-power in the region. They were giving land to these Asian people to fight for them. Also, we know that the Magyar tribe and Uralic tribes migrated Eastern Europe after Huns which points out that time period.
After wars, year by year, the core population who invaded Eastern Europe reduced and they had to change their political status as state confederation in 434. This was giving political power to the other tribes, too. Attila was able to manage the balance of power successfully. After his death they couldn't be able to do it the same thing, their own men rebelled against them.
Dengizik decided to retreat with the core population who still loyal to them which will be resulted in Bolgars. After their migration, there was political instability in the region for years. Some died as mercenary soldiers, some migrated towards the Balkans and some migrated with their Germanic allies. After Magyar migration, they could gain strength in the region and overpopulated which will bring linguistical conversation afterward.
So, at the beginning of the argument, i only claimed Szekely have Turkic origin because of late migrations. But in the case of Hungary, things are a bit different. Most probably they were a mix of Uralic-Ugric tribes with a bunch of Turkic.
I also think that those Uralic-Ugric tribes may be the source of Slavic input in Hungary.
To sum up, i claim:
-Huns definitely had the Turkic origin but they were a confederation, we can't claim them like all "Huns were Turk." The knowledge which we gained till today points out that their ruler class was also Turk or Turko-Mongol which means the driving force was also Turks.
-Szekely and Csango have Turkic origin because of late Turkic migrations as an addition to their Hungarian roots.
-East Eurasian admixture of Hungarians comes from various sources.
I don't claim:
-Today's Hungarians are Turks.
We can talk about it if you have any opinions.
At the beginning you said her East Eurasian score is not necessarily Turk, then you said Szekely is Turk but Hungarians are not in terms of origin, then you said okay but 3-5% East Eurasian admixture won't make someone Turk. :eyes
Blondie
12-09-2019, 02:39 PM
Yeah, but the Hungarians who have Q-L332 in that link is not Szekely.
Q is ultra rare among hungarians, such common like uralic N, it means nothing. Genetically modern hungarians are not turkic and not uralic, but there are some uralic and turkic survivor.
At the beginning you said her East Eurasian score is not necessarily Turk, then you said Szekely is Turk but Hungarians are not in terms of origin, then you said okay but 3-5% East Eurasian admixture won't make someone Turk. :eyes
Turkic not turk and yes that's true.
I actually have that map saved, it is an interesting map. But I would like to address, that your map seems to focus on talking about possible Ugrics who went into the Magyar identity, not the Turkics.
Sources from history are very specific that Árpád dynasty was elected "from their own", and not from the Khazars. So where did this Turkic elite class come from?
If we are going to say that there was a fusion, and not a language shift during migration and acquiring of new tribesmen and women (which is my theory instead of only Turkics as part of elite), then where did the Turkic element come from to gain the Hungarian identity as well? If they did not see themselves as superior to the non-Turkics they conquered/ruled/etc based on ethnicity, then how could this Turkic elite be any different from the masses?
They would be the arbiters of Hungarian identity.
There is no proof Hungarians are language switchers from Turkic whatsoever. All linguistic evidence point to Ugric base of Hungarian and other influences came later.
On that map Ugric homeland is the starting point, the source.
This is most likely where first ancestors of Hungarians came from, and where the language comes from (Blogen says the same btw, and he is quite an expert)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingala_Valley
The Ingala Valley is an archaeological district in the area between the Tobol and Iset rivers. It is the largest one in the south of the Tyumen Oblast, and belongs to the Iset cultural and historical province. Archaeological sites in the valley date from the Mesolithic (8th-7th millennium BC) to the Middle Ages (15th century) and include marks of the Andronovo culture and Ugric Sargat culture (ancient Hungarians) civilizations.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D0%98%D1%81%D0%B5% D1%82%D0%B8_%28%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8 C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8 %D0%BD%D0%B0%29_-_5.JPG/1280px-%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D0%98%D1%81%D0%B5% D1%82%D0%B8_%28%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8 C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8 %D0%BD%D0%B0%29_-_5.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D 1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0 %BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA._%D0%AE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0 %B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0% B0_%281%29.JPG/1280px-%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D 1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0 %BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA._%D0%AE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0 %B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0% B0_%281%29.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/%D0%9A%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD_%D0%9A%D1%80% D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0 %BA%D0%B8%D0%B9-2_%283%29.JPG/1280px-%D0%9A%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD_%D0%9A%D1%80% D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0 %BA%D0%B8%D0%B9-2_%283%29.JPG
Tyumen Oblast on map of Russia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Map_of_Russia_-_Tyumen_Oblast_%282008-03%29.svg
https://www.worldatlas.com/img/locator/city/065/17865-tyumen-locator-map.jpg
It's not only one. I have seen few Szekelys results who got no 1 Serbian.
Serbs have lower Siberian and East_Asian score than Szekelys, that is a difference.
Could it be that there was a population of Serbs in easternmost vertex of Transylvania, which intermixed with arriving Magyars?
It seems that ancient "south-slav" population existed a substantial bit north than modern "scholars" think
Could it be that there was a population of Serbs in easternmost vertex of Transylvania, which intermixed with arriving Magyars?
No.
Im a Székely(100%). If any of you still interested, I can post my gedmatch results.
Hi,
Is Dodecad K12b good for you? It's okay for Hungarians from what I've seen.
Kökény
12-11-2019, 11:49 AM
Hi,
Is Dodecad K12b good for you? It's okay for Hungarians from what I've seen.
Hi!
I didn't try it before, so I don't know if it's good or bad.
Heres what I got. :)
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 36.52
2 Atlantic_Med 26.01
3 Caucasus 18.83
4 Gedrosia 6.15
5 Southwest_Asian 5.33
6 Siberian 2.53
7 East_Asian 1.52
8 South_Asian 1.38
9 Northwest_African 1.3
10 Southeast_Asian 0.43
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanians (Behar) 9.55
2 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 11.09
3 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 11.76
4 Hungarians (Behar) 11.89
5 German (Dodecad) 15.72
6 O_Italian (Dodecad) 17.97
7 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 18.88
8 N_Italian (Dodecad) 19.04
9 French (Dodecad) 19.78
10 French (HGDP) 20.09
11 Dutch (Dodecad) 20.44
12 TSI30 (Metspalu) 21.96
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 22.08
14 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.33
15 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.51
16 Tuscan (HGDP) 22.62
17 English (Dodecad) 22.68
18 Greek (Dodecad) 23.14
19 C_Italian (Dodecad) 23.39
20 British_Isles (Dodecad) 23.92
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 30.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.45
2 64% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 36% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.47
3 70.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 29.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.73
4 57.9% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 42.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.89
5 62.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.97
6 59.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 40.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.99
7 75.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.1% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 4.06
8 63.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 4.09
9 58.4% Tuscan (HGDP) + 41.6% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.22
10 53.2% Swedish (Dodecad) + 46.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.24
11 71.2% German (Dodecad) + 28.8% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.25
12 62.3% Swedish (Dodecad) + 37.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 4.28
13 72.1% German (Dodecad) + 27.9% Turks (Behar) @ 4.31
14 75.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 4.34
15 59.6% Swedish (Dodecad) + 40.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.36
16 59.3% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 40.7% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.4
17 57.2% Tuscan (HGDP) + 42.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 4.41
18 75.9% German (Dodecad) + 24.1% Druze (HGDP) @ 4.43
19 64.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 4.44
20 57.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 42.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.46
Turul Karom
12-12-2019, 03:16 AM
Hi!
I didn't try it before, so I don't know if it's good or bad.
Heres what I got. :)
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 36.52
2 Atlantic_Med 26.01
3 Caucasus 18.83
4 Gedrosia 6.15
5 Southwest_Asian 5.33
6 Siberian 2.53
7 East_Asian 1.52
8 South_Asian 1.38
9 Northwest_African 1.3
10 Southeast_Asian 0.43
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanians (Behar) 9.55
2 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 11.09
3 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 11.76
4 Hungarians (Behar) 11.89
5 German (Dodecad) 15.72
6 O_Italian (Dodecad) 17.97
7 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 18.88
8 N_Italian (Dodecad) 19.04
9 French (Dodecad) 19.78
10 French (HGDP) 20.09
11 Dutch (Dodecad) 20.44
12 TSI30 (Metspalu) 21.96
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 22.08
14 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.33
15 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.51
16 Tuscan (HGDP) 22.62
17 English (Dodecad) 22.68
18 Greek (Dodecad) 23.14
19 C_Italian (Dodecad) 23.39
20 British_Isles (Dodecad) 23.92
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 30.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.45
2 64% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 36% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.47
3 70.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 29.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.73
4 57.9% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 42.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.89
5 62.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.97
6 59.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 40.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.99
7 75.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.1% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 4.06
8 63.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 4.09
9 58.4% Tuscan (HGDP) + 41.6% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.22
10 53.2% Swedish (Dodecad) + 46.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.24
11 71.2% German (Dodecad) + 28.8% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.25
12 62.3% Swedish (Dodecad) + 37.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 4.28
13 72.1% German (Dodecad) + 27.9% Turks (Behar) @ 4.31
14 75.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 4.34
15 59.6% Swedish (Dodecad) + 40.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.36
16 59.3% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 40.7% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.4
17 57.2% Tuscan (HGDP) + 42.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 4.41
18 75.9% German (Dodecad) + 24.1% Druze (HGDP) @ 4.43
19 64.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 4.44
20 57.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 42.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.46
I'm skeptical of this one a bit because the numbers are so far away from 0 for you, especially Hungarian. I believe that your other calculators are better.
Turul Karom
12-12-2019, 03:53 AM
There is no proof Hungarians are language switchers from Turkic whatsoever. All linguistic evidence point to Ugric base of Hungarian and other influences came later.
On that map Ugric homeland is the starting point, the source.
That's not really what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that what could have happened is that the majority Turkic speakers were outnumbered as Ugric dominated from the women (and whatever men) passed it onto their children. This happened quickly because the Hungarians were moving west at this time after the Göktürk emprie collapsed. Ügyek is the same name as the last Uyghur Khagan for example and by this time their influence has also waned.
I wanted to repeat this because I believe it is the most interesting question, assuming the current idea of the language (and only language, not talking about genetics) is correct:
If we are going to say that there was a fusion, and not a language shift during migration and acquiring of new tribesmen and women (which is my theory instead of only Turkics as part of elite), then where did the Turkic element come from to gain the Hungarian identity as well? If they did not see themselves as superior to the non-Turkics they conquered/ruled/etc based on ethnicity, then how could this Turkic elite be any different from the masses?
They would be the arbiters of Hungarian identity.
This is why I almost feel like the language of the elite speakers is almost a non-issue if they were Turkic in every other way and were elected to lead the entire Magyar tribes. The fact they were elected "from their own" (meaning fellow Magyars) and specifically not from a Khazar royal family illustrates the implications of this, if the leadership was Turkic, and the Magyars elected from their own, then the tribes at this point must have been predominantly.....
Also I understand your map and blogen. I'm not saying Ugric speakers aren't involved in this or DNA ethnogenesis. What I'm saying is, if we follow this presentation of facts, there were no "Magyar tribes" and certainly no Central Magyar unity before the Turkic leadership (with tested DNA now) made it so. Just groups of Ugrics and Turkics and do on. That's the important piece to this. Does it make sense?
I'm skeptical of this one a bit because the numbers are so far away from 0 for you, especially Hungarian. I believe that your other calculators are better.
Can you please post your own K12b results?
Turul Karom
12-12-2019, 09:51 AM
Can you please post your own K12b results?
It's in my gedmatch thread.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221145-Turul-Karom-GEDmatch-amp-DNA-Results&highlight=Turul+karom+gedmatch
It's in my gedmatch thread.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221145-Turul-Karom-GEDmatch-amp-DNA-Results&highlight=Turul+karom+gedmatch
No K12b though. Okay, whatever.
Turul Karom
12-12-2019, 11:51 PM
No K12b though. Okay, whatever.
Really?
Alright. I can just post again.
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 44.38
2 Atlantic_Med 28.39
3 Caucasus 15.76
4 Gedrosia 7.45
5 Southwest_Asian 2.65
6 Southeast_Asian 0.58
7 Siberian 0.49
8 Northwest_African 0.3
9 East_Asian 0.01
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 5.06
2 German (Dodecad) 7.76
3 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 13.08
4 Dutch (Dodecad) 14.31
5 Romanians (Behar) 15.02
6 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 16.87
7 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 16.9
8 Kent (1000Genomes) 16.97
9 English (Dodecad) 17.09
10 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 17.31
11 French (Dodecad) 17.46
12 Swedish (Dodecad) 17.81
13 French (HGDP) 17.87
14 British_Isles (Dodecad) 18.15
15 Norwegian (Dodecad) 18.43
16 Argyll (1000Genomes) 18.97
17 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 19.43
18 Orkney (1000Genomes) 19.43
19 British (Dodecad) 19.53
20 Orcadian (HGDP) 19.78
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87% German (Dodecad) + 13% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 1.67
2 87.2% German (Dodecad) + 12.8% North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.69
3 86.9% German (Dodecad) + 13.1% Adygei (HGDP) @ 1.75
4 89.4% German (Dodecad) + 10.6% Abhkasians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.9
5 89.9% German (Dodecad) + 10.1% Georgians (Behar) @ 2.01
6 85.6% German (Dodecad) + 14.4% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.02
7 86.4% German (Dodecad) + 13.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 2.15
8 52.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 47.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.21
9 69.3% German (Dodecad) + 30.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.29
10 76.4% Swedish (Dodecad) + 23.6% Armenians (Behar) @ 2.37
11 88.6% German (Dodecad) + 11.4% Armenians (Behar) @ 2.42
12 51.3% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 48.7% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.44
13 66.8% German (Dodecad) + 33.2% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.47
14 86.4% German (Dodecad) + 13.6% Turks (Behar) @ 2.5
15 88.5% German (Dodecad) + 11.5% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 2.58
16 86.1% German (Dodecad) + 13.9% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.59
17 55.2% Romanians (Behar) + 44.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.59
18 88.5% German (Dodecad) + 11.5% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 2.66
19 88.5% German (Dodecad) + 11.5% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.67
20 54.4% Romanians (Behar) + 45.6% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.72
# Population Percent
1 North_European 44.38
2 Atlantic_Med 28.39
3 Caucasus 15.76
4 Gedrosia 7.45
5 Southwest_Asian 2.65
6 Southeast_Asian 0.58
7 Siberian 0.49
8 Northwest_African 0.3
9 East_Asian 0.01
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 5.06
I'm not trying to troll or anything but you are completely European, potentially only around 1% East Eurasian. That's virtually nothing. I score around 5.6% on K12b for example (5 times higher). You personally are just about as Turkic as Gagauz people but unlike Hungarians they actually do speak Oghuz. I mean seriously you live in Central Europe, you speak Ugric, you are culturally Roman Catholic (you may not practice or believe in Christ but that doesn't matter, many Jews don't practice Judaism either for instance). Do you really think you share a lot with Turkey, Uzbekistan, Uyghurs or any other Central Asian nation?
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 06:30 AM
I'm not trying to troll or anything but you are completely European, potentially only around 1% East Eurasian. That's virtually nothing. I score around 5.6% on K12b for example (5 times higher). You personally are just about as Turkic as Gagauz people but unlike Hungarians they actually do speak Oghuz. I mean seriously you live in Central Europe, you speak Ugric, you are culturally Roman Catholic (you may not practice or believe in Christ but that doesn't matter, many Jews don't practice Judaism either for instance). Do you really think you share a lot with Turkey, Uzbekistan, Uyghurs or any other Central Asian nation?
Lol, wow where did all of that come from?
When did I ever say that I was a high East Eurasian percentage? Why does this calculator mean so much to you in particular? Do you not hold others in high regard at all?
Also the language things again? Pretty hilarious. So if I fluently speak Japanese then am I Japanese too? What if I was born there? What if I told you I know Turkish Gagauz dialect too, does that make me Turkic? Only when talking about Hungarians will people twist their spines to snapping before admitting their ancestral roots.
And no, I don't think you're trolling. I just think you've been misled about my beliefs and didn't take the time to ask them. Don't pull the same thing Blondie does and put words in my mouth that I say Hungarians are all some "east Asian Mongoloid" group or that I see myself as not "European" in the historical sense (despite Europe frequently not seeing us as the same).
Kökény
12-13-2019, 06:31 AM
I know you didn't asked me, but in my opinion anybody can feel close to turkic peoples. You don't necessarily have to be part turkic or have asian blood.
It's personal preference. We have plenty of common words and similar background. Is it not enough?
I'm so tired of this ugric bullshit over and over again. Nobody denies the origin of the language but the turkic side shoudn't be swept under the rug either. Those who consider themselfs turanists are not always a crazy turk maniac.
I personally consider myself turkic for my own entertainment. I'm not saying I am 100% turkic. Im just more interested in them, than finno ugrics. I never cared for them. I'm sure they also have beautiful cultures, but it's not my cup of tea. I was always more interested in steppe things. I'm practicing archery too, cuz why the fuck not.
Lastly I like them because they are really friendly and often supports us. Some think we shoudn't consider them our brothers because of the ottoman times. Like I give a fuck about what happened 500 years ago. Ridiculous.
Sorry if it seems like I'm taking my anger out on you(not my intention). It's just that I'm pretty fed up being labeled as a crazy person by some geniuses(not you) just because I like and support a certain group of people.
Peterski
12-13-2019, 06:37 AM
I'm not trying to troll or anything but you are completely European, potentially only around 1% East Eurasian. That's virtually nothing. I score around 5.6% on K12b for example (5 times higher). You personally are just about as Turkic as Gagauz people but unlike Hungarians they actually do speak Oghuz. I mean seriously you live in Central Europe, you speak Ugric, you are culturally Roman Catholic (you may not practice or believe in Christ but that doesn't matter, many Jews don't practice Judaism either for instance). Do you really think you share a lot with Turkey, Uzbekistan, Uyghurs or any other Central Asian nation?
But look what Itilvolga wrote:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221145-Turul-Karom-GEDmatch-amp-DNA-Results&p=4641476#post4641476
Turan is all about soul, not much about DNA. I have never seen any +90% slavic with Panslavism desire yet but i saw 0% Turkic with crazily Turan desire. Some cheap bloods can't boiling for their own ideas but feeling about Turan can reach to red apple ("kızıl elma", a Turkic idea of conquering Turan lands). Congrats testverem, hajra Turan!
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 06:41 AM
I know you didn't asked me, but in my opinion anybody can feel close to turkic peoples. You don't necessarily have to be part turkic or have asian blood.
It's personal preference. We have plenty of common words and similar background. Is it not enough?
I'm so tired of this ugric bullshit over and over again. Nobody denies the origin of the language but the turkic side shoudn't be swept under the rug either. Those who consider themselfs turanist not always a crazy turk maniac.
I personally consider myself turkic for my own entertainment. I'm not saying I am 100% turkic. Im just more interested in them, than finno ugrics. I never cared for them. I'm sure they also have beautiful cultures, but it's not my cup of tea. I was always more interested in steppe things. I'm practicing archery too, cuz why the fuck not.
Lastly I like them because they really really friendly and often supports us. Some think we shoudn't consider them our brothers because of the ottoman times. Like I gave a fuck what happened 500 years ago. Ridiculous.
Sorry if it seems like I'm taking my anger out on you(not my intention). It's just that I'm pretty fed up being labeled as a crazy person by some geniuses(not you) just because I like and support a certain group of people.
It doesn't even matter to them because they won't hold other ethnicities to the same standards. The Hazaras are a defacto Turkic people who have lost their Turkic language, but nobody questions their Turkicness despite that they also live in Afghanistan and that several are Muslims and not Tengrists. The Chuvash language gets special recognition in the Turkic speaking world as being a "challenging to classify" Turkic language that was greatly impacted by Ugric, but somehow Hungarians don't get the privilege by western linguists? Everyone is admitting now that the conquering Magyars were Turkics, but claim that they are not "really Hungarians" in the elites but a Turkic speaking "other" despite the Khazar and Byzantine chronicles saying the Magyars elected leaders "from their own" and not the Khazars. The Hungarian holy crown will forever read "King of the Turks".
For people who are a certain % Asian (Central, Eastern, northern, Amerindian) or whatever combination in their DNA, like you and me have in ours, other people who dislike the facts will just find whatever calculator marginalizes it the most and mock you for it as though you claimed that you based your Turkicness off of such a "insignificant thing", and say that you can't be Turkic if you are in Europe (even though this means they are just perpetuating the stereotype that Turkics are and have always been 100% Sinic looking, which has never been true).
It's not a problem because it's an easy matter to debate. Just keep your facts about you and don't let people tell you what you are who have nothing invested in your identity, but everything to gain at the loss of it. Sort of like the lovely people in the EU offices who want to see us all just become "European". Bir Tengri... lol
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 06:45 AM
But look what Itilvolga wrote:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221145-Turul-Karom-GEDmatch-amp-DNA-Results&p=4641476#post4641476
It doesn't matter to some people that itilvolga has that sentiment, or that others recognize Hungarians as Turkic by blood and culture because it is not in their interests to indulge Hungary in this way.
That is alright. We have a history of not simply being indulgenced, but rather sharpened by iron. Hungarians will manage to carve a path with our Turkic family into the future, even in Europe. Best of both worlds and bridge of east and west. Turkic Hungary is only getting stronger.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 06:56 AM
International study showing Hungarians closest population to the conquering Hungarians, who overlap Bashkirs, and video showing Tree of Life ceremony (hand-carved by Hungarians) presented to Kazakhstan tribe (who also say we are brothers). There is a Kazakh tree in return in Hungary, linking the two nations in spirit if not by borders.
https://i.imgur.com/rah5RJA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8vzUu7O.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21KEBPz8IwQ
Peterski
12-13-2019, 07:07 AM
Leto is 0% Germanic genetically but very Pan-Germanic.
So he is a hypocrite when criticizing Pan-Turanids.
Lol, wow where did all of that come from?
When did I ever say that I was a high East Eurasian percentage? Why does this calculator mean so much to you in particular? Do you not hold others in high regard at all?
Also the language things again? Pretty hilarious. So if I fluently speak Japanese then am I Japanese too? What if I was born there? What if I told you I know Turkish Gagauz dialect too, does that make me Turkic? Only when talking about Hungarians will people twist their spines to snapping before admitting their ancestral roots.
And no, I don't think you're trolling. I just think you've been misled about my beliefs and didn't take the time to ask them. Don't pull the same thing Blondie does and put words in my mouth that I say Hungarians are all some "east Asian Mongoloid" group or that I see myself as not "European" in the historical sense (despite Europe frequently not seeing us as the same).
I don't value only that particular calculator but I'm sure you are not much Mongoloid on others either. Learning languages means nothing, I know English and German but they are not my ancestral languages. At no point in history the country of Hungary spoke Turkic. One can learn Mongolian and put up a yurt in the middle of the street but that won't make him Mongolian.
The Gagauz are obviously local Eastern Balkan people who would have switched to Turkish at some point for some reason.
Dude, you are free to associate with whoever you want but to me personally brown, underdeveloped Muslim countries are not really the kind of culture I would look up to. Germany, Czechia and Austria should be much closer to you in terms of culture and lifestyle in my opinion. I'm also sure you look a lot more like them than some fucking Uzbeks.
Peterski
12-13-2019, 07:13 AM
^^^
I am only 1.52% Turkic on Turkic K11 - Turul Karom, ethnic Hungarian, is 4.32% Turkic, so 3-times more than me:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?297105-Are-Hungarians-descended-from-local-Scythians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMQJZ_G3o8I
Leto is 0% Germanic genetically but very Pan-Germanic.
So he is a hypocrite when criticizing Pan-Turanids.
I am pro European in general meaning I wish all European states would survive, not only Germany. But it's one of the greatest nations in the world in many regards. I don't care about your personal issues with Germany and I don't view the world of 2020 through the lens of WW2. I won't be discussing politics and ideology here, my views are my business.
To me personally Polish genetics are the best (homogenous, huge Slavic admixture, barely any Asian, some Western influence but also very high in R1a and the people generally look similar to me phenotypically), I admit I love your DNA results, bro, even though you are not always a nice individual.
Culturally and spiritually I mostly identify with the Eastern Orthodox world.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 07:18 AM
I don't value only that particular calculator but I'm sure you are not much Mongoloid on others either. Learning languages means nothing, I know English and German but they are not my ancestral languages. At no point in history the country of Hungary spoke Turkic. One can learn Mongolian and put up a yurt in the middle of the street but that won't make him Mongolian.
The Gagauz are obviously local Eastern Balkan people who would have switched to Turkish at some point for some reason.
Dude, you are free to associate with whoever you want but to me personally brown, underdeveloped Muslim countries are not really the kind of culture I would look up to. Germany, Czechia and Austria should be much closer to you in terms of culture and lifestyle in my opinion. I'm also sure you look a lot more like them than some fucking Uzbeks.
Loooooooooooool, When did I ever say I looked like an Uzbek? Come on, how about having some integrity if you're going to misrepresent me so bad. How about about you answer the questions I asked because none of them were redundant or ironic.
Peterski
12-13-2019, 07:20 AM
I am pro European in general meaning I wish all European states would survive, not only Germany. But it's one of the greatest nations in the world in many regards.
Germany did not even exist before 1871. It is kinda artificial Pan-Germanic state like Yugoslavia was artificial Pan-Slavic state.
Yugoslavia was also awesome, surely greater than any of its petty successor states - which are quite sad. But it was artificial.
=====
Over 50% of East Germans regret that reunification of Germany happened in 1991:
https://www.thelocal.de/20191002/is-germany-really-united-30-years-after-the-fall-of-the-berlin-wall
"Zeit found a clear majority of respondents – 58 percent – feel they are not better protected from state arbitrariness today compared to the days of East Germany. The study also found less than half of eastern Germans (48 percent) believe that democracy in Germany works well."
Germany did not even exist before 1871. It is kinda artificial Pan-Germanic state like Yugoslavia was artificial Pan-Slavic state.
Yugoslavia was also awesome, surely greater than any of its petty successor states - which are quite sad. But it was artificial.
The German people did exist before 1871. They didn't fall from the sky in 1871. Dude, Germany is not Nazism, neither you, nor your parents lived under Hitler. It's irrelevant now, he has been dead for 75 years, no living soul is responsible for anything done in WW2.
Loooooooooooool, When did I ever say I looked like an Uzbek? Come on, how about having some integrity if you're going to misrepresent me so bad. How about about you answer the questions I asked because none of them were redundant or ironic.
To be honest, I'm opting out of this conversation. Generally speaking I'm trying to reduce the number of my posts on TA to a minimum. I'm no "aprician", nor do I intend to be an active member. As for you questions, I don't really know what to say. Perhaps I don't understand something. I'll re-read them later.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 07:32 AM
They can identify as anything they want. It's perfectly fine by me. It's fine if they don't even want to hear the word turkic or acknowledge their contribution to our history.
I'm not here to change anyones perspective or opinion.
Oh you don't have to worry about that. Good luck to anyone who want to change my opinions tho. Bro I'm a szekely. We are known for being stubborn.
I learned horse riding when I was younger, just saying. A lot of szekelys who are from villages, know how to ride a horse. They are part of the everyday life and celebrations.
Horse riding + archery....you already know what it is. Arrows gonna fly in to certain asses. Nah just joking. :D
Or not, lol.
I have a good friend who's father recently went to szkítabolt in Budapest to buy a bow and straw target to shoot into. Kassai bows are quite popular all around. I also helped him buy arrows at the 2019 kurultaj this year. I bought three székely flags too. One that was hand-made by a székely and quite nice quality. Two were printed polyester designs but the hand-made one is really nice. I can possibly take a photo of them if you'd like.
Leto is 0% Germanic genetically but very Pan-Germanic.
So he is a hypocrite when criticizing Pan-Turanids.
I know nothing about him or his pan-Germanicness or non-pan-Germanicness. I get tired of the constantly moving goalposts of Turkic identity for Hungarians from people the more that science marches on and shows them our true roots (which we have always known on our eon-old holy crown).
Peterski
12-13-2019, 07:32 AM
The German people did exist before 1871. They didn't fall from the sky in 1871.
West Germanic people existed before 1871, just like South Slavic people existed before Yugoslavia.
But genetic, cultural, ethnic differences between Austrian, Bavarian, Nordalbingian Saxon, East Prussian, etc. - are like between Bulgarian and Slovenian.
They are definitely not "one unified people" genetically.
Germany is a Pan-Germanic project. If it exists, I don't see any reason why not try a Pan-Turkic project for example. Maybe it would be more succesful?
Kökény
12-13-2019, 07:36 AM
^^^
I am only 1.52% Turkic on Turkic K11 - Turul Karom, ethnic Hungarian, is 4.32% Turkic, so 3-times more than me:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?297105-Are-Hungarians-descended-from-local-Scythians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMQJZ_G3o8I
We are really close in percentages then. I'm only 1.40 something. Turul Karom is far higher. And I'm supposed to be full szekely. He has some strong genes. :D
West Germanic people existed before 1871, just like South Slavic people existed before Yugoslavia.
But genetic, cultural, ethnic differences between Austrian, Bavarian, Nordalbingian Saxon, East Prussian, etc. - are like between Bulgarian and Slovenian.
They are definitely not "one unified people" in any sense of this word. Certainly not genetically.
Germany is a Pan-Germanic project. If it exists, I don't see any reason why not try a Pan-Turkic project for example. Maybe it would be more succesful?
We don't live in 1871, do we? Today they exist as a nation with a unified language. A unified Italy also didn't exist before 1861, so what? Does that mean it doesn't exist today? I don't see you talking much about Italy. Why did you bring up Germany and myself to begin with? I'm not German and the thread is about Hungarians.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 07:42 AM
To be honest, I'm opting out of this conversation. Generally speaking I'm trying to reduce the number of my posts on TA to a minimum. I'm no "aprician", nor do I intend to be an active member. As for you questions, I don't really know what to say. Perhaps I don't understand something. I'll re-read them later.
Oké.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXX_dkayNAI&t=168s
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 07:42 AM
International study showing Hungarians closest population to the conquering Hungarians, who overlap Bashkirs, and video showing Tree of Life ceremony (hand-carved by Hungarians) presented to Kazakhstan tribe (who also say we are brothers). There is a Kazakh tree in return in Hungary, linking the two nations in spirit if not by borders.
https://i.imgur.com/rah5RJA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8vzUu7O.jpg
Thats a ydna chart and if anything it shows how close hungarians are to czechs and slovaks.Now post an autosomal one and realize that you're probably not even in top 100 for them.
You are what , 1-1.5% asian autosomally? Thats nothing, you carry 0 or almost 0 conqueror blood and you need to wake up to this reality.
Peterski, you are a *bad guy* of shit merely because you haven't uploaded the Caucasians and Uzbeks I asked you for. I don't care about the rest of your nonsense. Thanks to you and another Pole I had to beg like a fucking beggar on all forums largely finding indifference. Thanks to one guy I finally have some of the data if not everything.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 07:51 AM
Thats a ydna chart and if anything it shows how close hungarians are to czechs and slovaks.Now post an autosomal one and realize that you're probably not even in top 100 for them.
You are what , 1-1.5% asian autosomally? Thats nothing, you carry 0 or almost 0 conqueror blood and you need to wake up to this reality.
Are you serious? This isn't a Y-DNA chart, it is a DNA clustering chart that takes into account far more than Y or mtDNA. What do you mean by "Asian" anyway, and where are you getting these numbers from?
Also I match with 1 Hun era and 3 conquering Magyar era graves from the study.
@Kökény, your Mongoloid is more substantial than Turul's. His is lower than my Belorussian father's. He should marry you and have babies xD
6 Siberian 2.53
7 East_Asian 1.52
10 Southeast_Asian 0.43
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 07:56 AM
We are really close in percentages then. I'm only 1.40 something. Turul Karom is far higher. And I'm supposed to be full szekely. He has some strong genes. :D
That is only one calculator and the Kyrgyz were the reference populations for 100% Turkic, and Uzbeks were a reference population for Turkic.
Your genes are just as strong as my own. Be proud.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnode01.flagstat.net%2Fmedia%2Fima ge%2F3609r.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 07:59 AM
@Kökény, your Mongoloid is more substantial than Turul's. He should marry you and have babies xD
6 Siberian 2.53
7 East_Asian 1.52
10 Southeast_Asian 0.43
Also again, you are only looking at one calc for each of us. How about you look at some earlier pages and look at our Gedrosia K6 results, or other puntDNAL? We each have far eastern populations too, I just have more. Turkics still dominate our mixed modes across all calcs on average. I'll be patiently waiting on those Q and As. Didn't you also just say something about opting out and limiting post counts?
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 07:59 AM
Are you serious? This isn't a Y-DNA chart, it is a DNA clustering chart that takes into account far more than Y or mtDNA. What do you mean by "Asian" anyway, and where are you getting these numbers from?
Also I match with 1 Hun era and 3 conquering Magyar era graves from the study.
This just shows that you know nothing about genetics, it is an Y-DNA clustering chart and thats all that it takes into account, unless "Y-Dna chromosomal HG distribution" means something else.
Autosomal is all that matters, and by it average hungarian, including you, has noise level asian, at 0-1% what hungarians average you have no conqueror dna.
Blondie
12-13-2019, 08:00 AM
I know you didn't asked me, but in my opinion anybody can feel close to turkic peoples. You don't necessarily have to be part turkic or have asian blood.
No, that's larping if you have not turkic roots just like western weeaboos who are 100% european and consider themselves japanese because of anime. They are larpers.
It's not problem if you have turkic identity, the problem is if you want to force it to others like Turul Karom, who thinks hungarians are only turkic with only turkic everything and he deny the uralic ancestry of hungarians. I debunked him many times that the conquerors were uralic-turkic mixed not only turkic, he accept and later forget it in the next day when he talking about only turkic roots again and never about uralic roots.
Also again, you are only looking at one calc for each of us. How about you look at some earlier pages and look at our Gedrosia K6 results, or other puntDNAL? We each have far eastern populations too, I just have more. Turkics still dominate our mixed modes across all calcs on average. I'll be patiently waiting on those Q and As. Didn't you also just say something about opting out and limiting post counts?
I prefer Dodecad K12b for Mongoloid. I don't use Gedrosia K6.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 08:20 AM
This just shows that you know nothing about genetics, it is an Y-DNA clustering chart and thats all that it takes into account, unless "Y-Dna chromosomal HG distribution" means something else.
Autosomal is all that matters, and by it average hungarian, including you, has noise level asian, at 0-1% what hungarians average you have no conqueror dna.
That's pretty cool. I also thought you were talking about that Y-haplogroup chart, not the graph since you are obviously familiar with this study and you totally aren't a sock of someone who just made their account here. First post is some random Celto-Germanic identifying Brit posting in a thread about Székely and Turkic DNA? Even cooler.
So then how about you tell me what "Asian" means in this context and how you are getting these numbers about me.
No, that's larping if you have not turkic roots just like western weeaboos who are 100% european and consider themselves japanese because of anime. They are larpers.
It's not problem if you have turkic identity, the problem is if you want to force it to others like Turul Karom, who thinks hungarians are only turkic with only turkic everything and he deny the uralic ancestry of hungarians. I debunked him many times that the conquerors were uralic-turkic mixed not only turkic, he accept and later forget it in the next day when he talking about only turkic roots again and never about uralic roots.
Oof, none? None at all? Sounds pretty absolutists. Hmm. Do the Japanese consider these weeb larpers to be Japanese? No. Do fellow Turkics consider us Turkic? Yes. Not at all the same thing.
Do you want to call me claiming Hungarians are east Asian mongoloids again? Then say you didn't?
Post 126 on page 13 on this thread has links and images of your lies about me. You misrepresent my points because that is the only way you can win. You will play defensive forever because the facts are on our side, and you must therefore play with words to hope to succeed.
I prefer Dodecad K12b for Mongoloid. I don't use Gedrosia K6.
Alright, why? Also I have posted more dodecad. Again, why does "Turkic" automatically mean "Mongol" to you?
When did I ever say that I was a high East Eurasian percentage? Why does this calculator mean so much to you in particular? Do you not hold others in high regard at all?
And no, I don't think you're trolling. I just think you've been misled about my beliefs and didn't take the time to ask them. Don't pull the same thing Blondie does and put words in my mouth that I say Hungarians are all some "east Asian Mongoloid" group or that I see myself as not "European" in the historical sense (despite Europe frequently not seeing us as the same).
Also again, you are only looking at one calc for each of us. How about you look at some earlier pages and look at our Gedrosia K6 results, or other puntDNAL? We each have far eastern populations too, I just have more. Turkics still dominate our mixed modes across all calcs on average. I'll be patiently waiting on those Q and As. Didn't you also just say something about opting out and limiting post counts?
That's not how Mixed Mode works though. A european with 1%Eastasian can get alot of Turkic Mixed Modes while a Turk with around 10% never gets it because it's the average for Turkey. I've seen some Spaniards or Portuguese with a lot of East Asian on their mixed modes, but I doubt they had any Turkic or Asian influence. The Algorythm just tries to adjust the results to the samples.
Edit: I don't want to imply or doubt anything though. I don't have a dog in this fight
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 08:31 AM
That's not how Mixed Mode works though. A european with 1%Eastasian can get alot of Turkic Mixed Modes while a Turk with around 10% never gets it because it's the average for Turkey. I've seen some Spaniards or Portuguese with a lot of East Asian on their mixed modes, but I doubt they had any Turkic or Asian influence.
That's irrelevant to me because if you look at what I score when I get Turkic results in mixed mode they are below 2 for closeness (sometimes below 1) and in a much higher % than my far east asian mixed mode results. For example, I get Balkars at 36% multiple times, and Nogay at approx 20%, mixed with usually either a Germanic population and one time Basque.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 08:32 AM
That's pretty cool. I also thought you were talking about that Y-haplogroup chart, not the graph since you are obviously familiar with this study and you totally aren't a sock of someone who just made their account here. First post is some random Celto-Germanic identifying Brit posting in a thread about Székely and Turkic DNA? Even cooler.
No, you did not think at all, you got busted and now you're trying to change the subject, you saw me exposing your agenda and you rushed quickly, with some bullshit, to dismiss it hoping that i won't make a second post and let that be the end of it, so whoever sees this thread thinks you were right.
Theres no study that shows hungarians as being autosomally closest to any turkic/uralic/-insert non-euro population-
So then how about you tell me what "Asian" means in this context and how you are getting these numbers about me.
Its simply, average hungarians scores near 0 east asian/siberian on gedmatch and 98%+ european, proven by gedmatch spreadsheets, and therefore they are very far genetically from non-european populations, like the conquerors.If 1-2% siberian gives one the ability to larp as a turkic then i guess all euros can larp as any euro ethnicity we want, given that we could get modeled as between any extremes of Europe and in much higher numbers.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 08:38 AM
No, you did not think at all, you got busted and now you're trying to change the subject, you saw me exposing your agenda and you rushed quickly to dismiss it hoping that i won't make a second post and let that be the end of it, so whoever sees this thread thinks you were right.
Theres no study that shows hungarians as being autosomally closest to any turkic/uralic/-insert non-euro population-
Not at all; if you knew me (because this is certainly the first time we are speaking) you would know I don't have some arbitrary conversational limit. We will talk about however you'd like to "disprove" this Turkic nature of ours. To be honest, I also doubt how many people are going to read 17 pages into this, but that's neither here nor there. At this point it is more for entertainment and fun and learning.
Its simply, average hungarians scores near 0 east asian/siberian on gedmatch and 98%+ european, proven by gedmatch spreadsheets, and therefore they are very far genetically from non-european populations, like the conquerors.If 1-2% siberian gives one the ability to larp as a turkic then i guess all euros can larp as any euro ethnicity we want, given that we could get modeled as between any extremes of Europe and in much higher numbers.
You don't appreciate the relevance of scores with Hungarians because you have different foundational facts. I have posted mine and am not "almost 0", and even many other Hungarians have as well. Stears scores more Turkic on several calculators than even some Anatolian Turkics here, regardless if he likes it or not. You won't appreciate the heritage of other Euros because that is more recent mixing. We are not talking about recent mixing, we are talking about DNA that is an eon old still present (higher than 1% indeed for me and many other magyars) and are acknowledged by the international Turkic community as a brotherly people.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 08:50 AM
Not at all; if you knew me (because this is certainly the first time we are speaking) you would know I don't have some arbitrary conversational limit. We will talk about however you'd like to "disprove" this Turkic nature of ours. To be honest, I also doubt how many people are going to read 17 pages into this, but that's neither here nor there. At this point it is more for entertainment and fun and learning.
You don't appreciate the relevance of scores with Hungarians because you have different foundational facts. I have posted mine and am not "almost 0", and even many other Hungarians have as well. Stears scores more Turkic on several calculators than even some Anatolian Turkics here, regardless if he likes it or not. You won't appreciate the heritage of other Euros because that is more recent mixing. We are not talking about recent mixing, we are talking about DNA that is an eon old still present (higher than 1% indeed for me and many other magyars) and are acknowledged by the international Turkic community as a brotherly people.
No, scoring 1-2% siberian does not make you conqueror, its within the average for europe, and scoring, and i quote you,"higher than 1%" means nothing when its 1.00001%.
Hungarians do not present any elevated asian levels in comparision with other european nations that would prove they are indeed conqueror admixed.
Blondie
12-13-2019, 08:55 AM
Oof, none? None at all? Sounds pretty absolutists. Hmm. Do the Japanese consider these weeb larpers to be Japanese? No. Do fellow Turkics consider us Turkic? Yes. Not at all the same thing.
The science based on facts, not what average people think. If japanese consider nigerians japanese it doesn't make nigerians japanese.
Post 126 on page 13 on this thread has links and images of your lies about me. You misrepresent my points because that is the only way you can win. You will play defensive forever because the facts are on our side, and you must therefore play with words to hope to succeed.
Facts are not on your side since the hungarian language is Uralic, and always has been uralic. The conquerors were not turkic as you claim but uralic-turkic-germanic etc mixed, uralic genetic in old magyars:
http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/1386/1/PhDertekezes_CsanyiB.pdf
other link:
"Among the modern individuals, only one Szekler carries the Tat C allele, whereas out of the four skeletal remains, two possess the allele. The latter finding, even allowing for the low sample number, appears to indicate a Siberian lineage of the invading Hungarians, which later has largely disappeared."
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2008.00440.x
Old magyars had 40% germanic maternal genetic:
http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf
What you say always? Hungarians were turkic, i proved they were not only partly and mix of many ethnicity who lived in Steppe. And i can prove what i'm say unlike you little propagandist.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 09:02 AM
No, scoring 1-2% siberian does not make you conqueror, its within the average for europe, and scoring, and i quote you,"higher than 1%" means nothing when its 1.00001%.
Hungarians do not present any elevated asian levels in comparision with other european nations that would prove they are indeed conqueror admixed.
Where are you getting this % from? What is that quote from?
The science based on facts, not what average people think. If japanese consider nigerians japanese it doesn't make nigerians japanese.
Facts are not on your side since the hungarian language is Uralic, and always has been uralic. The conquerors were not turkic as you claim but uralic-turkic-germanic etc mixed, uralic genetic in old
"Among the modern individuals, only one Szekler carries the Tat C allele, whereas out of the four skeletal remains, two possess the allele. The latter finding, even allowing for the low sample number, appears to indicate a Siberian lineage of the invading Hungarians, which later has largely disappeared."
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2008.00440.x
Old magyars had 40% germanic maternal genetic:
What you say always? Hungarians were turkic, i proved they were not only partly and mix of many ethnicity who lived in Steppe. And i can prove what i'm say unlike you little propagandist.
Everyone mixes. I have never said Hungarians are pure anything. There are modern Turkics who don't carry the Tat C either. You will now back away from the thread links and screen shots where you misrepresented me. I also said from long before you were on the forum that Hungarians are obviously going to plot closer with geographic neighbors on average, but this is not good for your point so you need to try to pin me with things that I do not claim to represent or believe. Which is why you also need to move goalposts for the definition of "Turkic" as we speak.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 09:09 AM
Where are you getting this % from? What is that quote from?
Gedmatch spreadsheets for every calculator, so there is nothing to argue with and whatever dodecad k218yz you're cherrypicking of yourself were you're 2.001% siberian is irrelevant.
Let me repeat this: hungarians do not show any elevated asian levels compared with their european neighbours.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 09:13 AM
. I also said from long before you were on the forum that Hungarians are obviously going to plot closer with geographic neighbors on average, but this is not good for your point so you need to try to pin me with things that I do not claim to represent or believe.
You did not phrase this right, let me rephrase it: hungarians do not show any elevated asian levels or shift towards conquerors compared with their european neighbours and plot exactly between their european neighbours.
oszkar07
12-13-2019, 09:16 AM
We are really close in percentages then. I'm only 1.40 something. Turul Karom is far higher. And I'm supposed to be full szekely. He has some strong genes. :D
I am half Hungarian,
This is my Turkic K11 result from yourdnaportal.
FTDNA raw data
Southeast European 32.45%
West Asian 2.30%
Southeast Asian 0.00%
Sub-Saharan African 0.00%
Northeast European 35.58%
Indian 0.01%
Northwest European 25.57%
Turkic 4.13%
Mongol 0.00%
Papuan 0.00%
Northeast Asian 0.00%
mit jelent ?
23andme raw data
Southeast European 33.46%
West Asian 2.74%
Southeast Asian 0.00%
Sub-Saharan African 0.00%
Northeast European 35.77%
Indian 0.93%
Northwest European 22.60%
Turkic 4.51%
Mongol 0.00%
Papuan 0.00%
Northeast Asian 0.00%
4.51 % Turkic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsqYIu60SjE
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 09:16 AM
Gedmatch spreadsheets for every calculator, so there is nothing to argue with and whatever dodecad k218yz you're cherrypicking of yourself were you're 2.001% siberian is irrelevant.
Let me repeat this: hungarians do not show any elevated asian levels compared with their european neighbours.
Where did I do that? Source the quote and claims. Also you never told me what you define as "Asian".
You did not phrase this right, let me rephrase it: hungarians do not show any elevated asian levels or shift towards conquerors compared with their european neighbours and plot exactly between their european neighbours.
I'm pretty sure my phrasing was spot-on the first time. Not to mention, that modern Hungarians are the shortest Euclidean distance from conquering population, so you are just making that part from line up from the air.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 09:18 AM
I am half Hungarian,
This is my Turkic K11 result from yourdnaportal.
Population
Percentage
Southeast European
32.45%
West Asian
2.30%
Southeast Asian
0.00%
Sub-Saharan African
0.00%
Northeast European
35.58%
Indian
0.01%
Northwest European
25.57%
Turkic
4.13%
Mongol
0.00%
Papuan
0.00%
Northeast Asian
0.00%
Careful my friend, or you will be lumped into the neo-Cuman-conspiracy by our local arbiters of Turkicness for posting "wrongblood". Apparently, even being partially Turkic is anathema..
So Turul Karom kind of cares more about the founding myth of Hungary, not about Mongoloid admixture on Gedmatch. I know Anatolian Turks online often cherish every drop of Mongoloid blood they have.
Kökény
12-13-2019, 09:24 AM
I am half Hungarian,
This is my Turkic K11 result from yourdnaportal.
Southeast European 32.45%
West Asian 2.30%
Southeast Asian 0.00%
Sub-Saharan African 0.00%
Northeast European 35.58%
Indian 0.01%
Northwest European 25.57%
Turkic 4.13%
Mongol 0.00%
Papuan 0.00%
Northeast Asian 0.00%
mit jelent ?
Really interesting. I don't know how come that both you and Turul have higher Turkic. But at the same time neither of you got results from the other asians. I have scored almost everything from the list. My north east asian is almost 1%. And I scored a minor mongol too. I guess szekelys and hungarians are indeed a little bit different.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 09:25 AM
Where did I do that? Source the quote and claims. Also you never told me what you define as "Asian".
You've been posting your results here in the past pages, you're playing stupid now.
And i'm not going to change the subject, where i tell you what asian means and you try and change to something else, the reality is simply: hungarians do not show any elevated asian levels compared with their european neighbours.Get this fact through your head, because i'm going to repeat it with every post from now on.
End of it.
I'm pretty sure my phrasing was spot-on the first time. Not to mention, that modern Hungarians are the shortest Euclidean distance from conquering population, so you are just making that part from line up from the air.
No, i have already told you, you CANNOT be closest genetically to conqueror populations, because they were strongly NON-EUROPEAN admixed and hungarians ARE NOT, stop with Y-DNA studies.
That 'euclidian distance' is obviously nothing more but that useless y-dna study which you by the way played stupid few posts ago when i told you that its an ydna study.
Hilarious, but gedmatch numbers stand for ultimate proof.
Blondie
12-13-2019, 09:28 AM
Everyone mixes. I have never said Hungarians are pure anything.
Yes, but for example germanics and slavs or italians have own and unique genetic background unlike hungarians. And you always claim conquerors were turkic and only turkic, which is not true, i proved it why. They had 40% gemranic maternal origin, every 2. conqueror had uralic Tat C allele, so very funny to say they were only turkic.
You've been posting your results here in the past pages, you're playing stupid now.
And i'm not going to change the subject, where i tell you what asian means and you try and change to something else, the reality is simply: hungarians do not show any elevated asian levels compared with their european neighbours.Get this fact through your head, because i'm going to repeat it with every post from now on.
End of it.
They do score a bit more than Czechs or Austrians or Croats though. Ask Feiichy. But it's still a very small percentage typically 2-3% at most.
Apparently I posted a Szekely person almost 2 years ago
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?242558-Szekely-Hungarian-GEDmatch-Results
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 09:36 AM
They do score a bit more than Czechs or Austrians or Croats though. Ask Feiichy. But it's still a very small percentage typically 2-3% at most.
They do, however at this level it depends much more on an individual level and which calculator, its a throw of dice really, at which let's say those closer to the east have a very slight edge, if we were to make bets.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 09:39 AM
Apparently I posted a Szekely person almost 2 years ago
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?242558-Szekely-Hungarian-GEDmatch-Results
A single calculator doesn't mean much, his asian(excluding south asian) is within normal euro range even so.The only foreign admixture he might have is gipsy, that if he scores it on almost all other gedmatch calculators, DNA.Land etc..
EDIT: Now i'm seeing that he scores south asian everywere, its obviously some gipsy blood there, and its nothing surprising, after all, who could szekelies magyarize if not the bulk of Transilvany which was romanians and some gipsies here and there.
7 Amerindian 1.57
8 South_Asian 1.46
9 East_Asian 1.44
10 Siberian 0.89
11 Oceanian 0.8
A single calculator doesn't mean much, his asian(excluding south asian) is within normal euro range even so.The only foreign admixture he might have is gipsy, that if he scores it on almost all other gedmatch calculators, DNA.Land etc..
EDIT: Now i'm seeing that he scores south asian everywere, its obviously some gipsy blood there, and its nothing surprising, after all, who could szekelies magyarize if not the bulk of Transilvany which was romanians and some gipsies here and there.
7 Amerindian 1.57
8 South_Asian 1.46
9 East_Asian 1.44
10 Siberian 0.89
11 Oceanian 0.8
Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 39.82
2 Atlantic_Med 24.77
3 Caucasus 18.31
4 Gedrosia 6.62
5 Southwest_Asian 6.03
6 Siberian 1.56
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 East_Asian 0.94
9 Southeast_Asian 0.85
Potentially over 3% plus 1% South Asian. Still white to me :p
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 09:46 AM
So Turul Karom kind of cares more about the founding myth of Hungary, not about Mongoloid admixture on Gedmatch. I know Anatolian Turks online often cherish every drop of Mongoloid blood they have.
Who are you replying to? You could always just ask me rather than try to speak for it. Didn't you accuse me of the same thing? Did I not explain this to you in another thread?
Really interesting. I don't know how come that both you and Turul have higher Turkic. But at the same time neither of you got results from the other asians. I have scored almost everything from the list. My north east asian is almost 1%. And I scored a minor mongol too. I guess szekelys and hungarians are indeed a little bit different.
Let me give advice. Use many calculators (that have good reason for being trusted, guard your DNA!) and take averages. Relying on only one will cause you to be seeing only what that one research group claims as their populations. In this case these reference populations consisted of East Eurasian Turkics and Far East Asians were the references for the "mongoloid" groups.
If you would like, I can find the other reference populations for the calculator.
Don't trust calcs you cannot evaluate for yourself or are unwilling to share what they are being used for! Take averages of all things closest to 0 and that will help you. It avoids bias and cherry picking while giving you the widest view possible of DNA.
It is obvious to anyone you are Turkic. Live with pride.
You've been posting your results here in the past pages, you're playing stupid now.
And i'm not going to change the subject, where i tell you what asian means and you try and change to something else, the reality is simply: hungarians do not show any elevated asian levels compared with their european neighbours.Get this fact through your head, because i'm going to repeat it with every post from now on.
End of it.
Playing stupid? You are putting words into my mouth and I ask for clarity alone. You started this by saying "asian" in your posts and ignored the questions. You can repeat it endlessly but you have no sources, so that is fine. Enjoy making good use of the copy-paste function.
No, i have already told you, you CANNOT be closest genetically to conqueror populations, because they were strongly NON-EUROPEAN admixed and hungarians ARE NOT, stop with Y-DNA studies.
That 'euclidian distance' is obviously nothing more but that useless y-dna study which you by the way played stupid few posts ago when i told you that its an ydna study.
Hilarious, but gedmatch numbers stand for ultimate proof.
1000 years in Europe will do that, but you can't even verify your claim because I can prove it and you cannot, along with Turkic connections:
The Conqueror-Bashkir relations are also supported by historical sources, as early Hungarians of the Carpathian Basin were reported to be identical to Baskhirs by Arabic historians like al-Masudi, al-Qazwini, al-Balhi, al-Istahri and Abu Hamid al-Garnati, latter visited both groups at the same time around 1150 AD and used the term Bashgird to refer to the Hungarians in the Carpathian Basin. In addition parallels were found between several Conqueror and Bashkir tribe names and Bashkiria has been identified with Magna Hungaria, the motherland of Conquerors.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/04/03/597997.full.pdf
Yes, but for example germanics and slavs or italians have own and unique genetic background unlike hungarians. And you always claim conquerors were turkic and only turkic, which is not true, i proved it why. They had 40% gemranic maternal origin, every 2. conqueror had uralic Tat C allele, so very funny to say they were only turkic.
I never said that there is any kind of "pure Turkic", including conquerors. I said that as the conquerors moved west they picked up these genetics from more Uralic people just like language changes. I can even show you my posts from years ago about it, and the ones from recent threads.
Do you need to be proven wrong about misrepresenting me again? Like on page 13, post 126?
They do score a bit more than Czechs or Austrians or Croats though. Ask Feiichy. But it's still a very small percentage typically 2-3% at most.
What are you using to get this number? Do people just not like to post sources, because people post these percentages but then don't have anything to back it up when asked. If you don't have it, just say so.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 09:47 AM
Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_European 39.82
2 Atlantic_Med 24.77
3 Caucasus 18.31
4 Gedrosia 6.62
5 Southwest_Asian 6.03
6 Siberian 1.56
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 East_Asian 0.94
9 Southeast_Asian 0.85
Potentially over 3% plus 1% South Asian. Still white to me :p
Yes, obviously, not even twice that would make one non-white, its more like a 'token'.Also, from what i've seen, those who score 1-2% south asian often get elevated level of the other asians or many other noise components, could be just the calculator trying to make sense/misinterpreted west asian and somethng else gipsies carry.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 09:49 AM
Yes, obviously, not even twice that would make one non-white, its more like a 'token'.Also, from what i've seen, those who score 1-2% south asian often get elevated level of the other asians or many other noise components, could be just the calculator trying to make sense/misinterpreted west asian and somethng else gipsies carry.
Nobody is talking about whiteness or is claiming non-whiteness (despite how Blondie misrepresents my claims about myself and Hungarians). Are Turkics only allowed to be some Sinic stereotype?
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 09:56 AM
Playing stupid? You are putting words into my mouth and I ask for clarity alone. You started this by saying "asian" in your posts and ignored the questions. You can repeat it endlessly but you have no sources, so that is fine. Enjoy making good use of the copy-paste function.
Nop, you're not asking for clarity, you're asking for me to tell you what asian means, despite me making it obvious that i mean SIBERIAN/EAST ASIAN, just so you can come up with some pseudo-math on how if you score 1% siberian and 1% arctic on some cherrypicked calculator you are now 20% nogay/conqueror, when your neighbours score similar, hilarious.
1000 years in Europe will do that, but you can't even verify your claim because I can prove it and you cannot, along with Turkic connections:
The Conqueror-Bashkir relations are also supported by historical sources, as early Hungarians of the Carpathian Basin were reported to be identical to Baskhirs by Arabic historians like al-Masudi, al-Qazwini, al-Balhi, al-Istahri and Abu Hamid al-Garnati, latter visited both groups at the same time around 1150 AD and used the term Bashgird to refer to the Hungarians in the Carpathian Basin. In addition parallels were found between several Conqueror and Bashkir tribe names and Bashkiria has been identified with Magna Hungaria, the motherland of Conquerors.
Irrelevant.
1000 years in Europe will do that
Good that you finally admit you're just larping.Next step is to actually identify with those european populations.
What are you using to get this number? Do people just not like to post sources, because people post these percentages but then don't have anything to back it up when asked. If you don't have it, just say so.
Gedmatch averages and individual results (Stears, Benyzero, you, a couple other members).
Hungarian K13 average:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 32.55
2 Baltic 31.85
3 West_Med 12.85
4 East_Med 10.41
5 West_Asian 7.55
6 Red_Sea 1.21
7 Siberian 1.11
8 Amerindian 0.97
9 South_Asian 0.83
10 East_Asian 0.21
Kökény
12-13-2019, 10:03 AM
Gedmatch averages and individual results (Stears, Benyzero, you, a couple other members).
Hungarian K13 average:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 32.55
2 Baltic 31.85
3 West_Med 12.85
4 East_Med 10.41
5 West_Asian 7.55
6 Red_Sea 1.21
7 Siberian 1.11
8 Amerindian 0.97
9 South_Asian 0.83
10 East_Asian 0.21
Heres mine for comparison
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 30.48
2 Baltic 23.21
3 East_Med 14.73
4 West_Med 13.58
5 West_Asian 8.88
6 Siberian 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.61
8 Red_Sea 1.49
9 East_Asian 1.03
10 Oceanian 1
11 Amerindian 0.74
12 Sub-Saharan 0.3
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 10:04 AM
Nop, you're not asking for clarity, you're asking for me to tell you what asian means, despite me making it obvious that i mean SIBERIAN/EAST ASIAN, just so you can come up with some pseudo-math on how if you score 1% siberian and 1% arctic on some cherrypicked calculator you are now 20% nogay/conqueror, when your neighbours score similar, hilarious.
No, I want to be aware what Asian you are talking about because Asian is now conflated with "East Asian" to most people. That is important for this conversation. Now that you have finally said what you mean, was it really that hard? This isn't an argument like pulling teeth.
Anyway, I get high Turkic mix on all calculators, including mixed mode. Such as here where I get 36% Balkar at a distance of 1.09
Irrelevant.
Oh, it's very relevant. It's just inconvenient for your narrative that so many people of different origins, European and not European, acknowledge this. One day we will join the Turkic council as full members, too. It will be wonderful to celebrate.
Good that you finally admit you're just larping.Next step is to actually identify with those european populations.
Hmmmm now this is very interesting. What do you mean with "identify"? What should I "identify" as that I seem to not be doing?
Gedmatch averages and individual results (Stears, Benyzero, you, a couple other members).
Hungarian K13 average:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 32.55
2 Baltic 31.85
3 West_Med 12.85
4 East_Med 10.41
5 West_Asian 7.55
6 Red_Sea 1.21
7 Siberian 1.11
8 Amerindian 0.97
9 South_Asian 0.83
10 East_Asian 0.21
Ok so you have averaged us all or something? Where and with what calcs? We are not all that low % across the series. You are skewing it down. How about you answer those questions from earlier since you are posting here again and not "opting out" of the conversation?
Okay, my last point (what I personally believe to be true). If you don't speak Turkic and especially if you don't have actual Turco-Mongolian ancestry in noticeable amounts, you are simply not Turkic. Black Americans have more British DNA than Hungarians have Siberian/East Asian. And yes, I am aware that Turkic doesn't translate into 100% Mongoloid. But Hungarian is not even a Turkic language to begin with!
gültekin
12-13-2019, 10:11 AM
Good that you finally admit you're just larping.Next step is to actually identify with those european populations.
why should a Hungarian identify with his ex subjects
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 10:13 AM
No, I want to be aware what Asian you are talking about because Asian is now conflated with "East Asian" to most people. That is important for this conversation. Now that you have finally said what you mean, was it really that hard? This isn't an argument like pulling teeth.
Anyway, I get high Turkic mix on all calculators, including mixed mode. Such as here where I get 36% Balkar at a distance of 1.09
East/Siberian score is very good marker for how much conqueror blood you have, you're playing stupid now, asking me like a broken record what 'asian' is.Hungarians are 98%+ european on average.
One day we will join the Turkic council as full members, too. It will be wonderful to celebrate.
Delirious.
Hmmmm now this is very interesting. What do you mean with "identify"? What should I "identify" as that I seem to not be doing?
Sane people identify with what they are, in your case european and hungarian, but you're free to identify with what you want, but in this case identify is synonym with larp.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 10:17 AM
Okay, my last point (what I personally believe to be true). If you don't speak Turkic and especially if you don't have actual Turco-Mongolian ancestry in noticeable amounts, you are simply not Turkic. Black Americans have more British DNA than Hungarians have Siberian/East Asian. And yes, I am aware that Turkic doesn't translate into 100% Mongoloid. But Hungarian is not even a Turkic language to begin with!
We have been over this. Also Hungarian has largest % of words as "unknown" origin according to most, but I guess that means we can just say Ugric only and not even fusion of languages, right? Also alright, let me learn Old Turkic to perfection. Boom. I am now the purest form of Turkic according to your own criteria..
The icing on the cake is there are Hungarian and non-Hungarian PhD linguists who also see Hungarian as a predominantly Turkic language.
Also you just contradicted yourself. You can't say that "a high Mongolian score is needed" (Turkics are NOT literal ethnic Mongols!) then admit it's a fallacy to say they (Turkics) are 100% mongoloid without sharing a % as a base line.
Regardless thanks for trying to draw the line where red becomes orange while not giving me the actual % you feel is appropriate. Totally feels like you're not just holding out so you can raise the bar as needed and that we've been having this conversation in good faith.
Ok so you have averaged us all or something? Where and with what calcs? We are not all that low % across the series. You are skewing it down. How about you answer those questions from earlier since you are posting here again and not "opting out" of the conversation?
These questions?
When did I ever say that I was a high East Eurasian percentage? Why does this calculator mean so much to you in particular? Do you not hold others in high regard at all?
Also the language things again? Pretty hilarious. So if I fluently speak Japanese then am I Japanese too? What if I was born there? What if I told you I know Turkish Gagauz dialect too, does that make me Turkic? Only when talking about Hungarians will people twist their spines to snapping before admitting their ancestral roots.
I didn't say you said you had high East Eurasian.
I already told you I prefer Dodecad for Mongoloid.
No, learning foreign languages means nothing, I answered this before.
I have no bad feelings about Hungary at all. It's one of the most favored countries among white nationalists.
gültekin
12-13-2019, 10:21 AM
oh come on Turul ,just say to this butthurt germano-slavs, there were never ever Huns, Attila, Magyars, Turkic etc who wiped off the shit of their horses with their potato faces. everyone can be happy
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 10:22 AM
why should a Hungarian identify with his ex subjects
Because hungarians have nothing to do with turkics in terms of genetic and language, let alone with some mongrel nation like Turkey whose citizens are, if lucky a little turkified, anatolian-armenian-kurds.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 10:26 AM
why should a Hungarian identify with his ex subjects
Because apparently everyone to the west of the Altai and Mongolia are converted "larpers", and everyone else is just an ethnic Mongolian. But only if you look Chinese enough.
Hmmm, I guess that means that nobody is Turkic!
How convenient for those who are anti-Turkic identity for one reason or another.
Now where have I heard that logic used before against Hungarians, but in reverse...
"reminiscing over Hungary's punishment at the Paris Peace Conference, the British diplomat Harold Nicolson noted: "I confess that I regarded, and still regard,that Turanian tribe with acute distaste. Like their cousins the Turks, they had destroyed much and created nothing." This Allied participant at the Paris Peace Conference did more than just express his unflattering opinion of the Hungarian people. He captured the biased political atmosphere of the international setting in which the historical Hungarian state met its death."
Source: (32) Borsody, op. cit., pp. 26-27.
East/Siberian score is very good marker for how much conqueror blood you have, you're playing stupid now, asking me like a broken record what 'asian' is.Hungarians are 98%+ european on average.
Really? Do you know where or when the Hungarians became a centralized identity? Do you know the names of the various Hungarian tribes? Do you know the names of the oldest known Hungarian leaders?
Delirious.
It will happen in due time. Why not focus on Brexit? It clearly means more to you than our Hungarian affairs.
Sane people identify with what they are, in your case european and hungarian, but you're free to identify with what you want, but in this case identify is synonym with larp.
I identify as Hungarian. Did I ever say I was not also a European? You said to identify, but with "those European populations" in regards to the nations around us. How very interesting.
Blondie
12-13-2019, 10:27 AM
I never said that there is any kind of "pure Turkic", including conquerors. I said that as the conquerors moved west they picked up these genetics from more Uralic people just like language changes. I can even show you my posts from years ago about it, and the ones from recent threads.
Bullshit because hungarians didn't change their language and the uralic genetic was their original genetic not the turkic which was result of mixing with them. And you always claim old magyars were turkic and you didn't mentioned their uralic, germanic etc ancestry.
gültekin
12-13-2019, 10:29 AM
Because hungarians have nothing to do with turkics in terms of genetic and language, let alone with some mongrel nation like Turkey whose citizens are, if lucky a little turkified, anatolian-armenian-kurds.
nice to hear the sounds of screwed butts coming from pig-shit cleaners descendants ,even today
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 10:39 AM
These questions?
I didn't say you said you had high East Eurasian.
I already told you I prefer Dodecad for Mongoloid.
No, learning foreign languages means nothing, I answered this before.
I have no bad feelings about Hungary at all. It's one of the most favored countries among white nationalists.
"I'm not trying to troll or anything but you are completely European, potentially only around 1% East Eurasian. That's virtually nothing. I score around 5.6% on K12b for example (5 times higher). You personally are just about as Turkic as Gagauz people but unlike Hungarians they actually do speak Oghuz. I mean seriously you live in Central Europe, you speak Ugric, you are culturally Roman Catholic (you may not practice or believe in Christ but that doesn't matter, many Jews don't practice Judaism either for instance). Do you really think you share a lot with Turkey, Uzbekistan, Uyghurs or any other Central Asian nation?"
You are saying that East Eurasian is the only barometer for judging Turkicness, which is why you devalue my claims of it in lieu of what you see as "minimal input". Obviously that is going to involve phenotype too (unless you are thinking of those super Nordic Mongolian types?).
How can learning languages mean nothing when you use that as your primary critique of what makes Hungarians not Turkic (since you harp on the language angle, like most anti-Turkics despite plenty of contrary evidence and the fact that the largest % of Hungarian is seen as "unknown").
I don't care how white nationalists view Hungary. I wish the western Euros all the best and will unite with any of them hand in hand to combat the grotesque EU, but for example Hungary is not France and France is not Hungary.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 10:41 AM
Because apparently everyone to the west of the Altai and Mongolia are converted "larpers", and everyone else is just an ethnic Mongolian. But only if you look Chinese enough.
Hmmm, I guess that means that nobody is Turkic!
How convenient for those who are anti-Turkic identity for one reason or another.
Now where have I heard that logic used before against Hungarians, but in reverse...
"reminiscing over Hungary's punishment at the Paris Peace Conference, the British diplomat Harold Nicolson noted: "I confess that I regarded, and still regard,that Turanian tribe with acute distaste. Like their cousins the Turks, they had destroyed much and created nothing." This Allied participant at the Paris Peace Conference did more than just express his unflattering opinion of the Hungarian people. He captured the biased political atmosphere of the international setting in which the historical Hungarian state met its death."
Source: (32) Borsody, op. cit., pp. 26-27.
Really? Do you know where or when the Hungarians became a centralized identity? Do you know the names of the various Hungarian tribes? Do you know the names of the oldest known Hungarian leaders?
I identify as Hungarian. Did I ever say I was not also a European? You said to identify, but with "those European populations" in regards to the nations around us. How very interesting.
YouR post is full of fallacies.
I never said that you are not turkic unless you're some chinese or mongol, i said that hungarians do not show elevated siberian/east asian levels compared to their neighbours, your people still average 98% euro on gedmatch.
I don't care about hungarian tribes , i dont care about Atilla, huns and your fantasies, hungarians are genetically like their neighbours, do you have any genetic proof that would counter this or we are simply ending the argument in my favor.
I identify as Hungarian. Did I ever say I was not also a European? You said to identify, but with "those European populations" in regards to the nations around us. How very interesting.
You can identify with what you want but if you identify as turkic then you're just larping, genetics stand as proof.End of the argument.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 10:48 AM
nice to hear the sounds of screwed butts coming from pig-shit cleaners descendants ,even today
It will happen in due time. Why not focus on Brexit? It clearly means more to you than our Hungarian affairs.
The way things are going for Turkey with the kurds, there are much higher chance in the next decade, your turan brother gultekin will be begging or selling his sister in Germany.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 10:50 AM
Bullshit because hungarians didn't change their language and the uralic genetic was their original genetic not the turkic which was result of mixing with them. And you always claim old magyars were turkic and you didn't mentioned their uralic, germanic etc ancestry.
Say it. Please. One more time so I can show you all the links and quotes again where you are wrong and again misrepresent me. It's become a rather entertaining theme to source how wrong you are regarding my own points. You like to straw man argument a lot. It is so easy to debunk because I remember what I post and when.
Also, from page 13, do I say Hungarians are also non-white mongoloids all some far east Asians too? Do you remember that? Or has this slipped your mind too?
I say conquering Hungarians were predominantly Turkic at core, and picked up genetics and more words during western travel. The Hungarian ancestors had lots of divergent DNA input and the Hungarian identity was not consolidated until Etelköz. Do you think the magyar tribes were all Ugric tribes, even before the Kabars (because I a suppose you wouldn't count them in our ethnogenesis). The oldest known leaders all had Turkic names, including Ügyek and his wife and offspring. Hungarian leadership also married "Cuman" women at this time.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 10:58 AM
YouR post is full of fallacies.
I never said that you are not turkic unless you're some chinese or mongol, i said that hungarians do not show elevated siberian/east asian levels compared to their neighbours, your people still average 98% euro on gedmatch.
I don't care about hungarian tribes , i dont care about Atilla, huns and your fantasies, hungarians are genetically like their neighbours, do you have any genetic proof that would counter this or we are simply ending the argument in my favor.
You can identify with what you want but if you identify as turkic then you're just larping, genetics stand as proof.End of the argument.
I have personally seen enough Hungarian posts of DNA here to debunk this. I already said that you have no sources, just posting numbers. You know what I heard about that though? 98% of people who claim 98% of unsourced facts are never incorrect.
Source: none.
Anyway, if you don't care about my "fantasies", why are you even posting here, Mr not-a-sock? I guess all us non-Turkics from different nations can just larp together in the hundreds of thousands at kurultaj and grow in number each year.
The way things are going for Turkey with the kurds, there are much higher chance in the next decade, your turan brother gultekin will be begging or selling his sister in Germany.
Gültekin is as welcome in Hungary as he pleases with me. Turkey has harbored us twice since we have been "freed" from the Ottomans. I would return the favor to one that I know. Before you scream about the Ottomans, I don't care and Germanics kill each other left and right in the 20th century for dominance, let alone during the middle ages as well. I am anti-empire regardless of the ethnicity at the top of it. They always turn out poorly for the unfortunate ethnics who must bleed for their unappreciative colonies, as what happened to many English men and must suffer for it now under the heels of the "holier-than-thou" EU.
I have personally seen enough Hungarian posts of DNA here to debunk this. I already said that you have no sources, just posting numbers. You know what I heard about that though? 98% of people who claim 98% of unsourced facts are never incorrect.
Source: none.
Anyway, if you don't care about my "fantasies", why are you even posting here, Mr not-a-sock? I guess all us non-Turkics from different nations can just larp together in the hundreds of thousands at kurultaj and grow in number each year.
Gültekin is as welcome in Hungary as he pleases with me. Turkey has harbored us twice since we have been "freed" from the Ottomans. I would return the favor to one that I know. Before you scream about the Ottomans, I don't care and Germanics kill each other left and right in the 20th century for dominance, let alone during the middle ages as well. I am anti-empire regardless of the ethnicity at the top of it. They always turn out poorly for the unfortunate ethnics who must bleed for their unappreciative colonies, as what happened to many English men and must suffer for it now under the heels of the "holier-than-thou" EU.
Turks probably face harsh racism in Hungary as return. So much for Turanism.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 11:19 AM
Turks probably face harsh racism in Hungary as return. So much for Turanism.
Are you being serious right now? Where are you getting this information and why do you feel this way when you say you had "no dog in the fight"?
I have personally met plenty of Hungarian and Turkish couples, of each gender and ethnicity pair, raising children in Hungary (mostly met them in Budapest).
You have no idea what you are saying.
https://i.imgur.com/UCZyLuO.jpg
Are you being serious right now? Where are you getting this information and why do you feel this way when you say you had "no dog in the fight"?
I have personally met plenty of Hungarian and Turkish couples, of each gender and ethnicity pair, raising children in Hungary (mostly met them in Budapest).
You have no idea what you are saying.
Because in Germany Turks are seen as nothing else as other Mena groups. I doubt Hungarians will differ from that. I once knew a Hungarian girl who complained to me about so many Turks being here in Germany and how Germans can let this happen. She didn't knew I was half Turk aswell.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 11:28 AM
I have personally seen enough Hungarian posts of DNA here to debunk this. I already said that you have no sources, just posting numbers. You know what I heard about that though? 98% of people who claim 98% of unsourced facts are never incorrect.
Source: none.
Leto already posted, its irrelevant for me to go on gedmatch pick euro k13, k15 or any other and show you that hungarians are 98%+ european on average or any other modern genetic studies to show you that hungarians are genetically europeans with nothing turkic noticeable and clustering with their neighbours and that you are wrong.Do you have any genetic study to prove that hungarians have signifiant turkic genetics compared to their neighbours or not?If you post that y-dna shit yet again i'll consider not.
Anyway, if you don't care about my "fantasies", why are you even posting here, Mr not-a-sock? I guess all us non-Turkics from different nations can just larp together in the hundreds of thousands at kurultaj and grow in number each year.
No, you're trying to change the subject, i don't care about your fantasies in THIS context, the context of genetically proving that you are turkics, you can larp as Atilla for as long as you want in your own private room because there i do not care what you do.
Luke35
12-13-2019, 11:29 AM
Really interesting. I don't know how come that both you and Turul have higher Turkic. But at the same time neither of you got results from the other asians. I have scored almost everything from the list. My north east asian is almost 1%. And I scored a minor mongol too. I guess szekelys and hungarians are indeed a little bit different.
I sometimes wonder the accuracy of these calcs, when splitting up these old, minor components. In other words, you may score total 4% Asian components (Mongol, Northeast Asian, Turkic), while Oszk just gets it all lumped into Turkic. Perhaps this is due to chance? Or maybe because he is mixed with NW European, the Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian stuff gets more difficult to separate? My point is, I don't think it is important to put too much into the specific component you get, might be better to look at total Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian, if that is what one is examining.
I sometimes wonder the accuracy of these calcs, when splitting up these old, minor components. In other words, you may score total 4% Asian components (Mongol, Northeast Asian, Turkic), while Oszk just gets it all lumped into Turkic. Perhaps this is due to chance? Or maybe because he is mixed with NW European, the Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian stuff gets more difficult to separate? My point is, I don't think it is important to put too much into the specific component you get, might be better to look at total Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian, if that is what one is examining.
It's by chance I think. I have the same experience too in comparison to my father's results. For example on one calculator he get's like 5% Siberian and I get zero Siberian but like 3%Beringian which both my parents don't have.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 11:34 AM
I sometimes wonder the accuracy of these calcs, when splitting up these old, minor components. In other words, you may score total 4% Asian components (Mongol, Northeast Asian, Turkic), while Oszk just gets it all lumped into Turkic. Perhaps this is due to chance? Or maybe because he is mixed with NW European, the Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian stuff gets more difficult to separate? My point is, I don't think it is important to put too much into the specific component you get, might be better to look at total Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian, if that is what one is examining.
Its some amateur calculator.
I score 3.4% turkic, 0% anywere else and on k13 i am like 0.90 east asian + siberian.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 11:45 AM
Because in Germany Turks are seen as nothing else as other Mena groups. I doubt Hungarians will differ from that. I once knew a Hungarian girl who complained to me about so many Turks being here in Germany and how Germans can let this happen. She didn't knew I was half Turk aswell.
Factually, actually wrong. Come to Hungary and come to kurultaj. Interact with Hungarians and you will see the truth. I keep in contact with Turkish tourists all the time who came to Hungary and were treated very well. I even just said my own experiences contradict your "assumptions". Is the picture also meaningless? Why would you just assume Hungary and Germany have the same legacy regarding Turkish immigration and the reasons for it in the first place? Not to mention the ethnic perspectives of Hungarian and Turkish friendship?
If you just want someone to confirm your bias, then talk to Blondie.
Leto already posted, its irrelevant for me to go on gedmatch pick euro k13, k15 or any other and show you that hungarians are 98%+ european on average or any other modern genetic studies to show you that hungarians are genetically europeans with nothing turkic noticeable and clustering with their neighbours and that you are wrong.Do you have any genetic study to prove that hungarians have signifiant turkic genetics compared to their neighbours or not?If you post that y-dna shit yet again i'll consider not.
No, you're trying to change the subject, i don't care about your fantasies in THIS context, the context of genetically proving that you are turkics, you can larp as Atilla for as long as you want in your own private room because there i do not care what you do.
He too posted no sources.
Here is mine, as per your request, my friend.
https://i.imgur.com/erdY2aI.png
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7
Regarding the subject, you are the one talking about fantasies, so that is just my reply to it. If you think we are all larping out in a field, then why do you all the way in England care? Do you think it's weird looking at all that you join TA and this is the first hill that you are willing to die on?
So are you who, then?
I sometimes wonder the accuracy of these calcs, when splitting up these old, minor components. In other words, you may score total 4% Asian components (Mongol, Northeast Asian, Turkic), while Oszk just gets it all lumped into Turkic. Perhaps this is due to chance? Or maybe because he is mixed with NW European, the Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian stuff gets more difficult to separate? My point is, I don't think it is important to put too much into the specific component you get, might be better to look at total Turkic/East Eurasian/Asian, if that is what one is examining.
That is also why it is so important to look at as many (safe and secure!) calculators who are open to show populations as you can. It helps average the numbers over time. Obviously if you scored something very unexpected like 50% East Asian, running another calculator or even another DNA sequencing company would be only beneficial.
Hungary is divided society (speaking about nationalists, not average people who are majority). There is pro-Turkic, Eurasianist, steppe brotherhood group with clear anti-western views and there are Nordicist neo-nazis who like to stress how white and Germanic shifted Hungarians are in comparison with Romanians, for example. There is also a third eastern oriented group hostile to Turks and oriented towards Russia (Blogen for example), but they are least numerous of the 3.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 11:58 AM
Factually, actually wrong. Come to Hungary and come to kurultaj. Interact with Hungarians and you will see the truth. I keep in contact with Turkish tourists all the time who came to Hungary and were treated very well. I even just said my own experiences contradict your "assumptions". Is the picture also meaningless? Why would you just assume Hungary and Germany have the same legacy regarding Turkish immigration and the reasons for it in the first place? Not to mention the ethnic perspectives of Hungarian and Turkish friendship?
If you just want someone to confirm your bias, then talk to Blondie.
He too posted no sources.
Here is mine, as per your request, my friend.
https://i.imgur.com/erdY2aI.png
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7
Thats a historical, not a genetic, context, and you know this well, but you avoid the subject on purpose and then next post you are back again at postulating how turkic you are.
Here's from gedmatch
Also, i've added south asian too.Why?Because conquerors were not indians and this will put things into perspective next time you claim you're turkics.
South_Asian, East_Asian Siberian Amerindian
0.83 0.21 1.11 0.97
Euro k15
South_Asian Southeast_Asian Siberian Amerindian
0.72 0.13 0.38 0.68
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:01 PM
Hungary is divided society (speaking about nationalists, not average people who are majority). There is pro-Turkic, Eurasianist, steppe brotherhood group with clear anti-western views and there are Nordicist neo-nazis who like to stress how white and Germanic shifted Hungarians are in comparison with Romanians, for example. There is also a third eastern oriented group hostile to Turks and oriented towards Russia (Blogen for example), but they are least numerous of the 3.
I appreciate and like Russians too, especially now that they seem to have began to break from their "Red Fever" at last. Also we all know that in WW2 Hungary would not have came out well ethnically. Hungarians were admired for their historical tenacity and fighting ability, then their legacy and mythos. But we all know we would not have faired well in the long term amongst the Aryan oriented hierarchy:
From J.W. Clackson:
“The Turanian [Hungarian] is the impersonation of material power. He is the merely muscular man at his maximum of collective development. He is not inherently a savage, but he is radically a barbarian. He does not live from hand to mouth, like a beast, but neither has he in full measure the moral and intellectual endowments of the true man. He can labour and he can accumulate, but he cannot think and aspire like a Caucasian. Of the two grand elements of superior human life, he is more deficient in the sentiments than in the faculties. And of the latter, he is better provided with those which conduce to the acquisition of knowledge than the origination of ideas."
-"The Iran and Turan", Anthropological Review 6:22, p. 286
I appreciate and like Russians too, especially now that they seem to have began to break from their "Red Fever" at last. Also we all know that in WW2 Hungary would not have came out well ethnically. Hungarians were admired for their historical tenacity and fighting ability, then their legacy and mythos. But we all know we would not have faired well in the long term amongst the Aryan oriented hierarchy:
From J.W. Clackson:
“The Turanian [Hungarian] is the impersonation of material power. He is the merely muscular man at his maximum of collective development. He is not inherently a savage, but he is radically a barbarian. He does not live from hand to mouth, like a beast, but neither has he in full measure the moral and intellectual endowments of the true man. He can labour and he can accumulate, but he cannot think and aspire like a Caucasian. Of the two grand elements of superior human life, he is more deficient in the sentiments than in the faculties. And of the latter, he is better provided with those which conduce to the acquisition of knowledge than the origination of ideas."
-"The Iran and Turan", Anthropological Review 6:22, p. 286
Tell that to Stears, who also represent important percentage of Magyar nationalists. He is as much anti-Russian as he is anti-Turkic. Poles are his brothers, and Germans he considers close, much closer than any easterners.
Pole and Hungarian — two brothers,
good for saber and for glass.
Both courageous, both lively,
May God bless them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_and_Hungarian_brothers_be
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:06 PM
Thats a historical, not a genetic, context, and you know this well, but you avoid the subject on purpose and then next post you are back again at postulating how turkic you are.
Here's from gedmatch
Also, i've added south asian too.Why?Because conquerors were not indians and this will put things into perspective next time you claim you're turkics.
South_Asian, East_Asian Siberian Amerindian
0.83 0.21 1.11 0.97
Euro k15
South_Asian Southeast_Asian Siberian Amerindian
0.72 0.13 0.38 0.68
No? You can read where it says "Thus, most of the population of the Carpathian Basin originated from......" That is a genetic context.
Also those results are not always representative of Hungarians here, the cultural and ethnogenesis of the conquerors, but something tells me you would not call us Ugric either even though you make the same language classification.
So what's your motive here again? Or does talking about Hungarians and dismantling their identity just interest you for whatever reason?
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:11 PM
Tell that to Stears, who also represent important percentage of Magyar nationalists. He is as much anti-Russian as he is anti-Turkic. Poles are his brothers, and Germans he considers close, much closer than any easterners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_and_Hungarian_brothers_be
Anti-Russian in what context? That is the important part. I would be anti-Russian in the Soviet Empire sense, but I don't just "hate" Russians as a people. I also don't see how that would make it logical for him to dismiss the quote I just gave, because even if Stears "passes" into Germanic society, if anyone found his legacy is Hungarian then he would be classified as such. These definitions of Hungarians existed and were entrenched well during the second world war, and regardless of his features, he would never be allowed to "forget" his origins.
Also I too have an affinity for the Polish, who I appreciate. Is there a reason why we cannot fight with more than one cardinal directional ally at a time against the EU?
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 12:12 PM
No? You can read where it says "Thus, most of the population of the Carpathian Basin originated from......" That is a genetic context.
Also those results are not always representative of Hungarians here, the cultural and ethnogenesis of the conquerors, but something tells me you would not call us Ugric either even though you make the same language classification.
So what's your motive here again? Or does talking about Hungarians and dismantling their identity just interest you for whatever reason?
No, theres no genetic context there, the quote is from a historical book from 1990, its the author freely talking on a more general note.
Gedmatch average is far more representative then your 1-2 cherrypicked and less known calculators.
Do you have any genetic study that shows that modern(so theres no room for interpretation) hungarians are indeed a genetically living turkic nation or not?
Anti-Russian in what context? That is the important part. I would be anti-Russian in the Soviet Empire sense, but I don't just "hate" Russians as a people. I also don't see how that would make it logical for him to dismiss the quote I just gave, because even if Stears "passes" into Germanic society, if anyone found his legacy is Hungarian then he would be classified as such. These definitions of Hungarians existed and were entrenched well during the second world war, and regardless of his features, he would never be allowed to "forget" his origins.
Also I too have an affinity for the Polish, who I appreciate. Is there a reason why we cannot fight with more than one cardinal directional ally at a time against the EU?
He doesn't feel spiritual and cultural closeness with any orthodox or nor non-western nation like Turkey.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:15 PM
No, theres no genetic context there, the quote is from a historical book from 1990, its the author freely talking on a more general note.
Gedmatch average is far more representative then your 1-2 cherrypicked and less known calculators.
Do you have any genetic study that shows that hungarians are indeed a genetically living turkic nation or not?
What is a genetically living Turkic nation to you? I need to know the standard of proof with a real life example so you can't keep raising your bar of proof, like you keep raising your interest in this Hungarian thread of "larpers" despite having no impetus for it. Just your odd hatred for Turkic Hungarians.
100% central europeans larping as turk lol. Not sure if it can get more ridiculous than that
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 12:19 PM
What is a genetically living Turkic nation to you? I need to know the standard of proof with a real life example so you can't keep raising your bar of proof, like you keep raising your interest in this Hungarian thread of "larpers" despite having no impetus for it. Just your odd hatred for Turkic Hungarians.
Show me a genetic study where hungarians are shown to be autosomally noticeable more turkic than their neighbours.
I have already posted gedmatch averages for Hungary.
Most ukraineans,romanians,bulgarians score similar or bit higher east eurasian components yet they dont even think about this turan crap. @Turul you should act like a grown man and accept that you've lived in a fantasy, its never to late to change
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 12:21 PM
Just your odd hatred for Turkic Hungarians.
I can't hate what does not exist.
You're just a bunch of slavs,germans,balkanites with you larping as your ex-magyar masters, can't get more of a cuck than that.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:21 PM
He doesn't feel spiritual and cultural closeness with any orthodox or nor non-western nation like Turkey.
And that is his right. But it won't change the genetics he carries, or those of his children. May he live a happy life free of fear and EU tyranny. Even if he does not feel it, we are brothers and I will fight for him as well.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:26 PM
100% central europeans larping as turk lol. Not sure if it can get more ridiculous than that
You caught us. I guess everyone who has the one-drop rule according to this needs to pack up their yurt and head back to Asian lands, hmm?
Show me a genetic study where hungarians are shown to be autosomally noticeable more turkic than their neighbours.
I have already posted gedmatch averages for Hungary.
Most ukraineans,romanians,bulgarians score similar or bit higher east eurasian components yet they dont even think about this turan crap. @Turul you should act like a grown man and accept that you've lived in a fantasy, its never to late to change
A grown man in relationship to what? Hiding from my own DNA tests? Hiding from the legacy of Hungarians who came before me? Hiding in the refuge of the EU? What would you have me do?
Oh wait..........
I can't hate what does not exist.
You're just a bunch of slavs,germans,balkanites with you larping as your ex-magyar masters, can't get more of a cuck than that.
And here we come to it. It took you a lot less time than I thought it would, but you have declared for all to see that we are a dead people. It is the inevitable outcome of your line of logic, that I believe even the most ardent Germanic-oriented Hungarian would shy away from. At least you are honest in your would-be genocide of us from Europe.
You caught us. I guess everyone who has the one-drop rule according to this needs to pack up their yurt and head back to Asian lands, hmm?
A grown man in relationship to what? Hiding from my own DNA tests? Hiding from the legacy of Hungarians who came before me? Hiding in the refuge of the EU? What would you have me do?
Oh wait..........
And here we come to it. It took you a lot less time than I thought it would, but you have declared for all to see that we are a dead people. It is the inevitable outcome of your line of logic, that I believe even the most ardent Germanic-oriented Hungarian would shy away from. At least you are honest in your would-be genocide of us from Europe.
You don’t even have a drop of turkic blood. Even your language isn’t turkic...not even altaic.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:32 PM
You don’t even have a drop of turkic blood. Even your language isn’t turkic...not even altaic.
Have you never seen any of our calculators? Who has Turkic blood? What is Turkic blood? Define your terms.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 12:33 PM
A grown man in relationship to what? Hiding from my own DNA tests? Hiding from the legacy of Hungarians who came before me? Hiding in the refuge of the EU? What would you have me do?
Oh wait..........
And here we come to it. It took you a lot less time than I thought it would, but you have declared for all to see that we are a dead people. It is the inevitable outcome of your line of logic, that I believe even the most ardent Germanic-oriented Hungarian would shy away from. At least you are honest in your would-be genocide of us from Europe.
Spare us of the cheap movies cliches.
Stop victimising yourself you complexed slavo-germano-balkanite and get some therapy, I'm not a rapist counselor, psychologist, I can't cure you of the complexes the magyars inflicted.
You had your chance(and more than once), to come up with a genetic study that would prove you right and me wrong, you couldn't and on top of that, I did.
Have you never seen any of our calculators? Who has Turkic blood? What is Turkic blood? Define your terms.
Yes, i’ve seen a lot. Your “asian” is similar to your neighbors, which means is in normal limits for the region
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:47 PM
Spare us of the cheap movies cliches.
Stop victimising yourself you complexed slavo-germano-balkanite and get some therapy, I'm not a rapist counselor, psychologist, I can't cure you of the complexes the magyars inflicted.
You had your chance(and more than once), to come up with a genetic study that would prove you right and me wrong, you couldn't and on top of that, I did.
Posted plenty of them. Oops, I did it again.
ÚJ FILOGENETIKAI MÉRTÉKEK ÉS ALKALMAZÁSUK
http://real.mtak.hu/71183/1/Nemeth_AK2017.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/ufHEAkQ.png
https://i.imgur.com/PnX4ucw.png
The Árpád line is also the same Y DNA as the Osman line. Movie clichés? As in what movies? Pretty sure that since the dawn of time people have been trying to find ways to de-legitimize one another. You are just showing your true thoughts, which is at the least, honest. You want Hungarians gone and see no point in us. Great. Remind me why you are selecting this hill to die on here?
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 12:50 PM
Yes, i’ve seen a lot. Your “asian” is similar to your neighbors, which means is in normal limits for the region
Demonstrably false. Even half Hungarians score higher than nations around us. You're arbitrarily answering this because you cannot define your terms, just like when I asked you define what Turkic blood is or a threshold for it. It is something very common in the thread, so you are in good company.
Maintenance
12-13-2019, 12:50 PM
Cringe
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 12:54 PM
Posted plenty of them. Oops, I did it again.
ÚJ FILOGENETIKAI MÉRTÉKEK ÉS ALKALMAZÁSUK
http://real.mtak.hu/71183/1/Nemeth_AK2017.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/ufHEAkQ.png
https://i.imgur.com/PnX4ucw.png
The Árpád line is also the same Y DNA as the Osman line. Movie clichés? As in what movies? Pretty sure that since the dawn of time people have been trying to find ways to de-legitimize one another. You are just showing your true thoughts, which is at the least, honest. You want Hungarians gone and see no point in us. Great. Remind me why you are selecting this hill to die on here?
Dude, i told you how many times in this thread, post autosomal proof, y-dna of Arpad or old magyars lines is absolutely irrelevant.
And no, you have not posted any genetic proof, you posted a historical quote one that you tried to pass as genetic proof and i have debunked you, now you're back at posting y-dna.
You do not have any proof that hungarians are turkic, there is no such thing in existence, you are larping as a turkic while being genetically european.
@Turul Karom
I applaud you for keeping cool and not resorting to insults and hatred even though you are outnumbered by your opponents.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 12:56 PM
Demonstrably false. Even half Hungarians score higher than nations around us. You're arbitrarily answering this because you cannot define your terms, just like when I asked you define what Turkic blood is or a threshold for it. It is something very common in the thread, so you are in good company.
Refer to this quote.
Here's from gedmatch
Also, i've added south asian too.Why?Because conquerors were not indians and [B][I]this will put things into perspective next time you claim you're turkics.
South_Asian, East_Asian Siberian Amerindian
0.83 0.21 1.11 0.97
Euro k15
South_Asian Southeast_Asian Siberian Amerindian
0.72 0.13 0.38 0.68
Demonstrably false. Even half Hungarians score higher than nations around us. You're arbitrarily answering this because you cannot define your terms, just like when I asked you define what Turkic blood is or a threshold for it. It is something very common in the thread, so you are in good company.
:picard2: Delusional disorder
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 01:01 PM
Cringe
Only the cringiest.
Dude, i told you how many times in this thread, post autosomal proof, y-dna of Arpad or old magyars lines is absolutely irrelevant.
And no, you have not posted any genetic proof, you posted a historical quote one that you tried to pass as genetic proof and i have debunked you, now you're back at posting y-dna.
You do not have any proof that hungarians are turkic, there is no such thing in existence, you are larping as a turkic while being genetically european.
I just posted more. I just posted it again. It is not even from the same study. The Árpád and Osman DNA study one was entirely different. It is apparent you are not reading what is being posted, or you are acting in bad faith. Also that was not a historical quote, that was a citation from a study that you said was not population related. When context was given, you dropped it like it was fire.
Apparently the first step would be proving to you that Hungarians exist, because you don't believe we are a people in the first place.
Turul Karom
12-13-2019, 01:03 PM
:picard2: Delusional disorder
Apparently delusional in the millions across the globe. We will take pride in it then.
Also, feel free to get back to me whenever you finally decide to be a good faith actor and define your terms for what Turkic blood is and the threshold for it for each nation that claims Turkic ancestry.
ProudBrit
12-13-2019, 01:08 PM
Only the cringiest.
I just posted more. I just posted it again. It is not even from the same study. The Árpád and Osman DNA study one was entirely different. It is apparent you are not reading what is being posted, or you are acting in bad faith. Also that was not a historical quote, that was a citation from a study that you said was not population related. When context was given, you dropped it like it was fire.
Apparently the first step would be proving to you that Hungarians exist, because you don't believe we are a people in the first place.
Lies.
Let's debunk this one by one.
I just posted more. I just posted it again. It is not even from the same study. The Árpád and Osman DNA study one was entirely different. It is apparent you are not reading what is being posted, or you are acting in bad faith
YOU.AND.99.99999%.OF.HUNGARIANS.ARE.NOT.OSMAN.OR.A RPAD.OR.ANY.OLD.MAGYAR
Anything that is not an autosomal study from you is regarded automatically as thrash.
Also that was not a historical quote, that was a citation from a study that you said was not population related. When context was given, you dropped it like it was fire.
The context was me asking you to post genetic proof of modern hungarians being autosomally turkic and you provided me firstly an image, which had a quote, from 1990 from a history book, not backed up by any genetics, when i've pointed how useless it is you changed the subject and then you've started this whole victimization process .
Apparently the first step would be proving to you that Hungarians exist, because you don't believe we are a people in the first place.
Again, lies.I have never said this, stop this victimization crap.
Maintenance
12-13-2019, 01:13 PM
World9
Hungarian
0.40 Amerindian
0.30 East Asian
0.00 African
68.33 Atlantic-Baltic
0.20 Australasian
1.50 Siberian
14.99 Caucasus gedrosia
13.89 Southern
0.40 South Asia
Random northern Swedish kit
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 76.49
2 Caucasus_Gedrosia 9.69
3 Southern 8.62
4 Siberian 2.79
5 South_Asian 1.95
6 African 0.25
7 Australasian 0.21
So Swedish turan pride
Apparently delusional in the millions across the globe. We will take pride in it then.
Also, feel free to get back to me whenever you finally decide to be a good faith actor and define your terms for what Turkic blood is and the threshold for it for each nation that claims Turkic ancestry.
How much central asian, NE asian or east asian do you score for example? You can include siberian and amerindian as well if you like. But, to be consider turkic you need to speak a turkic language by definition
Blondie
12-13-2019, 01:26 PM
Say it. Please. One more time so I can show you all the links and quotes again where you are wrong and again misrepresent me. It's become a rather entertaining theme to source how wrong you are regarding my own points. You like to straw man argument a lot. It is so easy to debunk because I remember what I post and when.
You are the biggest liar propagandist lol
You always said old magyars were turkic, ALWAYS, i debunked it with many genetic source that they were not only turkic but uralic, germanic etc too. You have never said they were uralic-turkic or something (only after i debunked you) you always said they were turkic and saying it is bullshit and that's why you deny their other roots because you always call them turkic.
Also, from page 13, do I say Hungarians are also non-white mongoloids all some far east Asians too? Do you remember that? Or has this slipped your mind too?
And you called my white supremacist, nazi, so what? You also said many things for me what i never said. Don't be hypocrite.
I say conquering Hungarians were predominantly Turkic at core, and picked up genetics and more words during western travel.
This is not true. Old magyars were uralic and they got turkic influence later.
The Hungarian ancestors had lots of divergent DNA input and the Hungarian identity was not consolidated until Etelköz.
Bullshit. "magyar" name came from Megyer tribe, they had magyar identity or can you prove this tribe didn't exist before Etelköz? I wait...
Do you think the magyar tribes were all Ugric tribes, even before the Kabars (because I a suppose you wouldn't count them in our ethnogenesis).
I have never said it you liar.
The oldest known leaders all had Turkic names, including Ügyek and his wife and offspring. Hungarian leadership also married "Cuman" women at this time.
Leaders were only 10-15% of compelte population, so a tiny minority and yes they got tons of turkic influence. But there are also tons of old magyar name which is not turkic.
@Turul Karom
I applaud you for keeping cool and not resorting to insults and hatred even though you are outnumbered by your opponents.
Yes. And I am sorry I said I would like IncelSlayer back (this Englishman is his sock)
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