View Full Version : Genetically, which is the more mixed country: Finland or Iceland?
Hyoga7
11-02-2019, 04:59 PM
Both Finland and Iceland have harsh Winter climates and haven't experienced massive immigration waves.
Anyway, DNA-wise which would be the more mixed?
How would that be measured?
Which scientific facts/data would one use?
Tenma de Pegasus
11-02-2019, 05:00 PM
Finland by far
Iceland is Celtic Germanic mix, both IE.
Finland is Germanic-Ugric mix much divergent groups.
What do you mean by 'mixed'?
Iceland was populated more recently than Finland, precisely during the Viking Age (800-1050 or so).
Hyoga7
11-02-2019, 05:15 PM
Thank you all for the replies!
I would just like to know how could one say, with scientific evidence, which is the more mixed country in genetic terms? And how would one measure that (haplogroups, autossomal, etc.)?
Does anyone know of scientific studies that shed some light in this respect?
Hyoga7
11-02-2019, 05:40 PM
I've found this in Eupedia for the Y-haplogroups (probably not the best factor for checking how mixed a country is):
Region/Haplogroup I1 I2*/I2a I2b R1a R1b G J2 J*/J1 E1b1b T Q N
Finland 28 0 0.5 5 3.5 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 61.5
Iceland 29 0 4 23 42 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
In mathematical/statistical terms, which would be the more mixed country? Which would be the more homogenous country?
92270
Cristiano viejo
11-02-2019, 05:42 PM
Finland is 40% N, which is Asian.
Blondie
11-02-2019, 05:51 PM
Iceland is Celtic Germanic mix, both IE.
Finland is Germanic-Ugric mix much divergent groups.
Finns are finnic not ugric.
Iceland should be more mixed, they have significant British Isles admixure. Finns are not mixed, except in SW Finland (with Swedes), I think.
Kamal900
11-02-2019, 05:54 PM
Iceland should be more mixed, they have significant British Isles admixure. Finns are not mixed, except in SW Finland (with Swedes), I think.
But..do they have around 40% of their Y-DNA belong to the N haplogroup which is commonly found in Siberia? I know that autosomally speaking they cluster with other North-Eastern Europeans including their Germanic neighbors but..
But..do they have around 40% of their Y-DNA belong to the N haplogroup which is commonly found in Siberia? I know that autosomally speaking they cluster with other North-Eastern Europeans including their Germanic neighbors but..
The Baltic-Finnic clade of N is different from those of Siberians. And Finland is not 40% N but around 60%.
But..do they have around 40% of their Y-DNA belong to the N haplogroup which is commonly found in Siberia? I know that autosomally speaking they cluster with other North-Eastern Europeans including their Germanic neighbors but..
N which Finns carry is original Finno-Ugric haplogroup. Finns are Finno-Ugric people. What is not clear there?
Kamal900
11-02-2019, 06:00 PM
The Baltic-Finnic clade of N is different from those of Siberians. And Finland is not 40% N but around 60%.
I see. Were they originally Caucasoids or Mongoloids?
Token
11-02-2019, 06:05 PM
The concept of being mixed is very subjective.
I see. Were they originally Caucasoids or Mongoloids?
I don't think this question is relevant to what the OP is asking. However, he should define what exactly he means by 'mixed'. Both Finns and Icelanders are very homogenous groups although the Icelanders being a smaller nation living on a smaller territory must be a bit more homogeneous than the Finns. There are only 300,000 Icelanders or so and imagine how many were a few centuries ago. They're basically one big family.
Kamal900
11-02-2019, 06:06 PM
I don't think this question is relevant to what the OP is asking. However, he should define what exactly he means by 'mixed'. Both Finns and Icelanders are very homogenous groups although the Icelanders being a smaller nation living on a smaller territory must be a bit more homogeneous than the Finns. There are only 300,000 Icelanders or so and imagine how many were a few centuries ago. They're basically one big family.
Yeah, he should have been more specific on that really.
Finns are finnic not ugric.
Anyway, same non-European, non-white Uralic people.
Anyway, same non-European, non-white Uralic people.
You're a troll. Finno-Ugric is a linguistic term, European is a geographic and cultural term (Finland is in Europe by the way which conventionally ends east of the Ural Mountains, Russia) and as for whiteness, Finland is the blondest and most blue-eyed nation, as far as I'm concerned.
You're a troll. Finno-Ugric is a linguistic term, European is a geographic and cultural term (Finland is in Europe by the way which conventionally ends east of the Ural Mountains, Russia) and as for whiteness, Finland is the blondest and most blue-eyed nation, as far as I'm concerned.
You know some Fins have Saami look with blonde hair and eyes? I'm not trolling. Pure Saamis are pure unmixed Finno-Ugric people. It's like pure Turks had been like Mongolids like Mongols.
You're a troll. Finno-Ugric is a linguistic term, European is a geographic and cultural term (Finland is in Europe by the way which conventionally ends east of the Ural Mountains, Russia) and as for whiteness, Finland is the blondest and most blue-eyed nation, as far as I'm concerned.
For example, he is less white than even me half Turkish.
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mika%20Hakkinen%20F1%20Grand%20Prix%20Germany%20LE eoNggulwol.jpg
Hyoga7
11-02-2019, 06:36 PM
I don't think this question is relevant to what the OP is asking. However, he should define what exactly he means by 'mixed'. Both Finns and Icelanders are very homogenous groups although the Icelanders being a smaller nation living on a smaller territory must be a bit more homogeneous than the Finns. There are only 300,000 Icelanders or so and imagine how many were a few centuries ago. They're basically one big family.
You are correct! I am myself having difficulties with "mixed" in this case and how this relates to homogeneity/heterogeneity in what concerns the Finnish and Icelandic.
For the sake of argument, let's assume the concepts of "homogeneity/heterogeneity".
I am not an expert is statistics/mathematics. Is standard deviation the best tool to calculate the "homogeneity/heterogeneity"?
I made simple calculations based on the Eupedia Y-Haplogroup table for Finland and Iceland.
The Standard Deviation for Finland:
Standard Deviation, s: 18.555200202247
Count, N: 12
Sum, Σx: 99
Mean, x̄: 8.25
Variance, s2: 344.29545454545
The Standard Deviation for Iceland:
Standard Deviation, s: 14.518535697097
Count, N: 12
Sum, Σx: 100
Mean, x̄: 8.3333333333333
Variance, s2: 210.78787878788
- Could we use these values and infer that Iceland is more homogeneous than Finland in terms of Y-DNA?
P.S.: Once again, I stress that I am no expert in statistics/mathematics, so I really don't know if Standard Deviation is an adequate or right tool for this analysis.
For example, he is less white than even me half Turkish.
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mika%20Hakkinen%20F1%20Grand%20Prix%20Germany%20LE eoNggulwol.jpg
Troll?
You know some Fins have Saami look with blonde hair and eyes? I'm not trolling. Pure Saamis are pure unmixed Finno-Ugric people. It's like pure Turks had been like Mongolids like Mongols.
The Sami and the Finns are two different ethnic groups. Most Finns live in Southern/SW Finland (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Population_map_of_Finland.svg/699px-Population_map_of_Finland.svg.png). And the Sami are not majority East Eurasian autosomally, only about 20-25% if I remember correctly.
For example, he is less white than even me half Turkish.
[IMG]http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mika%20Hakkinen%20F1%20Grand%20Prix%20Germany%20LE eoNggulwol.jpg
Lecture us from Istanbul on whiteness. Next time we'll ask a Bangladeshi's or an Ethiopian's opinion.
The Sami and the Finns are two different ethnic groups. Most Finns live in Southern/SW Finland (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Population_map_of_Finland.svg/699px-Population_map_of_Finland.svg.png). And the Sami are not majority East Eurasian autosomally, only about 20-25% if I remember correctly.
Saamis and Finns are like Bosnians and Russians.
Remember one drop rule. 5-10% non-white admixture makes one non-white. White phenotypes are recessive always nearly.
Very non European :lol:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/8a/31/e48a31cac54b4bb6bb91f0e30461c6d2.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6d/99/30/6d99304768709afc093f170d49454158--edward-weston-finland.jpg
https://i.redd.it/zo1z6db43zx01.jpg
Troll?
It's a fact some Finns look Eurasian which is non-white. I can't understand people get triggered. Being mixed is not end of world. I feel great as a mixed person.
Saamis and Finns are like Bosnians and Russians.
Remember one drop rule. 5-10% non-white admixture makes one non-white. White phenotypes are recessive always nearly.
No. Bosnians don't have any non-European admixture. Only thing non European about them is Islam.
Saamis and Finns are like Bosnians and Russians.
Remember one drop rule. 5-10% non-white admixture makes one non-white. White phenotypes are recessive always nearly.
Says who? Some retard who is probably a sock puppet account of a banned user?
It's a fact some Finns look Eurasian which is non-white. I can't understand people get triggered. Being mixed is not end of world. I feel great as a mixed person.
They don't. Because they can't pass outside of NE Europe. All European natives are white.
Very non European :lol:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/8a/31/e48a31cac54b4bb6bb91f0e30461c6d2.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6d/99/30/6d99304768709afc093f170d49454158--edward-weston-finland.jpg
https://i.redd.it/zo1z6db43zx01.jpg
He has lappid eyes for sure. You won't find them in pure white Norwegians or Swedes for sure.
Says who? Some retard who is probably a sock puppet account of a banned user?
Sorry, you have a hostile attitude, I won't reply you anymore. I don't want negativity.
He has lappid eyes for sure. You won't find them in pure white Norwegians or Swedes for sure.
Why would Finns look like Swedes and Norwegians? They are Finnic, not Germanic.
And Finnish ethnic group was formed when proto-Finns from Estonia mixed with Saami (which is where Finns Siberian admixture is coming from).
By the way, Swedes outside of southern Sweden are mixed with Finns, and mixing of Germanic Scandinavians with Saami isn't unheard of either.
These are Norwegians for example:
https://scandinaviantraveler.com/sites/default/files/styles/facebook_share/public/marcus-martinus-gunnarsen-twins-1140x619.jpg?itok=Rh7o4FTq
No. Bosnians don't have any non-European admixture. Only thing non European about them is Islam.
Not Bosnians, but I'm half Turkish which means mixed.
And Christianity is non-European, I wouldn't tell so, Perun is native Slavic God, not Jesus nor Allah.
Sorry, you have a hostile attitude, I won't reply you anymore. I don't want negativity.
Lol. You started trolling. Why do you even care about whiteness or Europeans if you're from Turkey? An average Western or Central European person would regard Turks and Arabs as similar people, i.e. Middle Eastern/Südländer.
21993
11-02-2019, 06:52 PM
Very non European :lol:
It's a fact some Finns look Eurasian which is non-white. I can't understand people get triggered. Being mixed is not end of world. I feel great as a mixed person.
Häkkinen looks Lappid.
Lol. You started trolling. Why do you even care about whiteness or Europeans if you're from Turkey? An average Western or Central European person would regard Turks and Arabs as similar people, i.e. Middle Eastern/Südländer.
I accept I'm mixed and non-white. I just stated a fact some Finns look Eurasians. My ethnicity doesn't change the facts.
Why would Finns look like Swedes and Norwegians? They are Finnic, not Germanic.
And Finnic ethnic group was formed when proto-Finns from Estonia mixed with Saami (which is where Finns Siberian admixture is coming from).
By the way, Swedes outside of southern Sweden are mixed with Finns, and mixing of Germanic Scandinavians with Saami isn't unheard of either.
These are Norwegians for example:
[img]https://scandinaviantraveler.com/sites/default/files/styles/facebook_share/public/marcus-martinus-gunnarsen-twins-1140x619.jpg?itok=Rh7o4FTq
Again, most Swedes and Norwegians don't live in the far North, they cluster in the Southern and Central parts. In Sweden Götaland and Svealand shouldn't be mixed at all, only Norrland. And in Norway only Northern Norway has some Saami.
Not Bosnians, but I'm half Turkish which means mixed.
And Christianity is non-European, I wouldn't tell so, Perun is native Slavic God, not Jesus nor Allah.
Nope. Western Christianity (Protestantism and Catholicism) has origin in Europe.
TheOldNorth
11-02-2019, 06:54 PM
depends on the definition, if you mean diversity of citizens in reference to their ethnicity, then Finland, if you mean two groups of people that were genetically very distinct mixed to make the dominant ethnicity despite one only having a 5% impact, then Finland, if you mean is defiantly a mix of two or more peoples in high quantities, even if those two or more peoples are closely related, then Iceland
Ymyyakhtakh
11-02-2019, 06:55 PM
as for whiteness, Finland is the blondest and most blue-eyed nation, as far as I'm concerned
Norway is blonder according to XenophobicPrussian (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303744-XP-s-Europe-wide-pigmentation-study) and Bertil Lundman (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rastyper-03.htm):
https://i.imgur.com/uuvXAlJ.png
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/rastyper-karta04.jpg
In the data set collected by the Estonian anthropologist Karin Mark between the 50s and 80s, Estonians had lighter hair than Finns (at least based on the average hair color number):
https://i.ibb.co/C1DS9LM/karin-mark-uralic-hair-color-eye-color.png
In terms of genetic diversity, a more appropriate question would be if Finns are more diverse than all Germanic people combined. In Table S2 from Salmela et al. (2011) (Swedish Population Substructure Revealed by Genome-Wide Single Nucleotide Polymorphism Data) (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016747), the FST between Eastern Finns and Western Finns (30.3) was larger than the FST between any two Germanic populations:
SWE SWEmix FIW FIE GER BRI CEU RUS ORC FRE FRB ITN TSI SAR
SWE (Swedish) 0.0 12.4 24.2 70.3 6.5 10.4 7.4 29.8 35.6 21.0 100.0 43.7 52.0 136.9
SWEmix 12.4 0.0 29.7 72.0 22.3 25.1 25.1 40.8 55.5 38.8 116.1 65.9 68.6 157.6
FIW (Finnish West) 24.2 29.7 0.0 30.3 34.5 44.0 41.5 34.4 71.0 60.1 141.6 86.2 94.2 192.6
FIE (Finnish East) 70.3 72.0 30.3 0.0 85.0 96.0 94.1 69.0 126.2 112.5 202.5 150.9 149.5 252.9
GER 6.5 22.3 34.5 85.0 0.0 4.9 4.3 28.2 32.4 13.2 91.4 33.8 38.3 121.5
BRI 10.4 25.1 44.0 96.0 4.9 0.0 1.2 38.3 26.9 7.4 81.7 29.9 31.8 110.2
CEU (Utah whites) 7.4 25.1 41.5 94.1 4.3 1.2 0.0 36.3 28.5 5.8 82.2 29.7 33.2 111.9
RUS 29.8 40.8 34.4 69.0 28.2 38.3 36.3 0.0 64.8 50.4 135.5 74.8 80.9 178.5
ORC (Orcadian) 35.6 55.5 71.0 126.2 32.4 26.9 28.5 64.8 0.0 40.1 112.5 69.6 63.3 146.5
FRE 21.0 38.8 60.1 112.5 13.2 7.4 5.8 50.4 40.1 0.0 72.2 14.4 17.4 87.3
FRB (French Basque) 100.0 116.1 141.6 202.5 91.4 81.7 82.2 135.5 112.5 72.2 0.0 77.9 81.4 131.0
ITN (North Italian) 43.7 65.9 86.2 150.9 33.8 29.9 29.7 74.8 69.6 14.4 77.9 0.0 8.7 69.9
TSI (Toscan) 52.0 68.6 94.2 149.5 38.3 31.8 33.2 80.9 63.3 17.4 81.4 8.7 0.0 62.5
SAR (Sardinian) 136.9 157.6 192.6 252.9 121.5 110.2 111.9 178.5 146.5 87.3 131.0 69.9 62.5 0.0
Again, most Swedes and Norwegians don't live in the far North, they cluster in the Southern and Central parts. In Sweden Götaland and Svealand shouldn't be mixed at all, only Norrland. And in Norway only Northern Norway has some Saami.
Central Sweden is also Finnish mixed. For the rest I think it's clear.
Kayra
11-02-2019, 06:57 PM
Saamis and Finns are like Bosnians and Russians.
Remember one drop rule. 5-10% non-white admixture makes one non-white. White phenotypes are recessive always nearly.
I, Kaspias and you look white despite we have 5-10% East Eurasian. In my opinion, Turanid influence on phenotype doesn't make person directly non-white. On the other hand, you can see pseudo mongoloid individuals even in Alpines or Malta.
Häkkinen looks Lappid.
Which is a native NE European phenotype. There are no Lappids in Siberia unless they are mixed with Russians.
Almost all Lappids live in Europe. Hence it is a white European phenotype.
Nope. Western Christianity (Protestantism and Catholicism) has origin in Europe.
Not that it's related to the topic but why did you exclude Orthodoxy? Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, the East Slavs are not European culturally?
Christianity is obviously part of European culture, Islam isn't. Doesn't matter where it originated. Buddhism originated in India, not in China or Vietnam for example.
Aren't Finns like the least mixed European ethnicity? Icelanders at least to my knowledge have a good portion of recent B&I.
Nope. Western Christianity (Protestantism and Catholicism) has origin in Europe.
It's about a Jewish guy being God. Anyway, I don't want to be aggressive to Christians. Last time Slavs being religious fanatics ended with blood, I dislike every kind of religious fanatism totally.
21993
11-02-2019, 07:00 PM
Which is a native NE European phenotype. There are no Lappids in Siberia unless they are mixed with Russians.
Almost all Lappids live in Europe. Hence it is a white European phenotype.
I agree. He looks NE Euro.
Not that it's related to the topic but why did you exclude Orthodoxy? Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, the East Slavs are not European culturally.
Christianity is obviously part of European culture, Islam isn't. Doesn't matter where it originated. Buddhism originated in India, not in China or Vietnam for example.
Ofc you are European culturally and orthodoxy is European. I just didn't mention it because I am not sure where does it originates. Aren't oldest orthodox Churches in Armenia and Egypt?
They are oriental orthodox though. I should have added Eastern Orthodoxy has origin in Europe too.
I, Kaspias and you look white despite we have 5-10% East Eurasian. In my opinion, Turanid influence on phenotype doesn't make person directly non-white. On the other hand, you can see pseudo mongoloid individuals even in Alpines or Malta.
Haha at last I found someone with my mix of race on this site.
I think European definition of white is more Central European, Nordic and Mediterranean. Rest of Europeans, even the native ones may be seen non-white in right wing standards.
And I'm not white by stormfront definitions. We are not natives of Europe.
Aren't Finns like the least mixed European ethnicity? Icelanders at least to my knowledge have a good portion of recent B&I.
Iceland was uninhibited before the Viking Age, their emerging is historically documented. They prolly descend from a few thousand settlers.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:05 PM
And Christianity is non-European, I wouldn't tell so, Perun is native Slavic God, not Jesus nor Allah.
It's pointless to strip 1000 years of history looking for "origins" because without it modern European nations wouldn't be what they are today.
Christianity is part of European culture because it participated in creation of European mentality for last 1000 years.
It's about a Jewish guy being God. Anyway, I don't want to be aggressive to Christians. Last time Slavs being religious fanatics ended with blood, I dislike every kind of religious fanatism totally.
Europe was founded on Christianity. Everything about Europe would be unimaginable without Christianity, our architecture, music, culture, history etc.
Charlemagne was spiritual father of (western) Europe, and he was Christian.
Why bring up religion? It's totally unrelated. Discuss it somewhere else please.
Blondie
11-02-2019, 07:07 PM
Anyway, same non-European, non-white Uralic people.
Finns are white europeans, 99,99% of ugrics are hungarians who are also white europeans so i don't know what are you talking about.
TheOldNorth
11-02-2019, 07:08 PM
N which Finns carry is original Finno-Ugric haplogroup. Finns are Finno-Ugric people. What is not clear there?
finns are a finnish speaking but a genetically indo-european people with little uralic admixture
Iceland was uninhibited before the Viking Age, their emerging is historically documented. They prolly descend from a few thousand settlers.
Vikings brought some slaves and captives from Ireland and other British Isles. They do have some autosomal admixture from there, quite signnificant actually.
There was recent paper about that. User Grace O' Malley will know details. She is quite close to Icelanders and she is fully Irish.
It's pointless to strip 1000 years of history looking for "origins" because without it modern European nations wouldn't be what they are today.
Very few cultures have been historically untouched by outside influences. Japan is a very homogeneous island nation yet they have a huge Chinese influence for example. Japanese is written with Chinese characters and full of Chinese vocabulary. Buddhism also came there from China.
Europe was founded on Christianity. Everything about Europe would be unimaginable without Christianity, our architecture, music, culture, history etc.
Charlemagne was spiritual father of (western) Europe, and he was Christian.
If you define Charlemagne as spiritual father of Europe, it means Slavics have never been European culturally.
I think religion must be independent of race. But, it's smth complicated. If I posted my father as a French or Italian here as a Christian, you would call him white. If I post him as a Turkish, you would speak hatefully on him. This is hypocrisy. Whiteness is Christian. I'm sure a big part of Christian Europeans would exclude even those pure Indo-European religion believing pagans as non-whites. Meanwhile, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism are more European by it's origins than Christianity, Islam or Judaism.
Kayra
11-02-2019, 07:11 PM
Haha at last I found someone with my mix of race on this site.
I think European definition of white is more Central European, Nordic and Mediterranean. Rest of Europeans, even the native ones may be seen non-white in right wing standards.
Where is your father from? Only Istanbul?
Well, I know but i think you are mostly Mediterranean and can pass in most places of Europe. This should make a person white, shouldn't it? European + Turanid admixtures, Lappid, Ladogan, Alföld still looks very white to me as well. I don't know anything about Stormfront criteria, but they are already just crazy people.
finns are a finnish speaking but a genetically indo-european people with little uralic admixture
Nope. Finns have least R haplogroup in Europe. Proto-Finnics were European genetically and closest to modern Estonians.So they were aleady similar to some Indo-Europeans, and they are not IE.
Vikings brought some slaves and captives from Ireland and other British Isles. They do have some autosomal admixture from there, quite signnificant actually.
There was recent paper about that. User Grace O' Malley will know details. She is quite close to Icelanders and she is fully Irish.
Yes, I didn't specify what kind of settlers.
Ofc you are European culturally and orthodoxy is European. I just didn't mention it because I am not sure where does it originates. Aren't oldest orthodox Churches in Armenia and Egypt?
They are oriental orthodox though. I should have added Eastern Orthodoxy has origin in Europe too.
It's kinda correct though that Protestantism and Catholicism are "more" European than Orthodoxy. The cultural periods that have defined modern day Europe are those from Catholics and then also Protestants. Not that Orthodoxy necessarily isn't Europe, but a different kind of Europe. Its origin is not that important (or else all of Europe would be Middle Eastern technically), it's more how certain civilizations have created their own cultural continuity.
TheOldNorth
11-02-2019, 07:15 PM
Nope. Finns have least R haplogroup in Europe. Proto-Finnics were European genetically and closest to modern Estonians.So they were aleady similar to some Indo-Europeans, and they are not IE.
A haplogroup is not a people, Scandinavians have some of the most steppe admixture in europe yet are mostly haplogroup I, and there is a group of africans who have an overwhelming haplogroup R1-b
If you define Charlemagne as spiritual father of Europe, it means Slavics have never been European culturally.
I think religion must be independent of race. But, it's smth complicated. If I posted my father as a French or Italian here as a Christian, you would call him white. If I post him as a Turkish, you would speak hatefully on him. This is hypocrisy. Whiteness is Christian. I'm sure a big part of Christian Europeans would exclude even those pure Indo-European religion believing pagans as non-whites. Meanwhile, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism are more European by it's origins than Christianity, Islam or Judaism.
??
Slavs are European culturally, they have nothing to do with Asia. That includes all Slavs except muslim ones.
Western and part of southern Slavs adopted same culture as rest of western Europe founded by Franks. Eastern and part of southern Slavs adopted orthodox Christian culture from Byzantine Greeks which were European power.
You're bit lost. Bosniaks are white. Just their culture isn't European. And my own father is direct descendant of Bosnian muslim nobility.
Blondie
11-02-2019, 07:18 PM
??
Slavs are European culturally, they have nothing to do with Asia. That includes all Slavs except muslim ones.
Western and part of southern Slavs adopted same culture as rest of western Europe founded by Franks. Eastern and part of southern Slavs adopted orthodox Christian culture from Byzantine Greeks which were European power.
You're bit lost. Bosniaks are white. Just their culture isn't European. And my own father is direct descendant of Bosnian muslim nobility.
He's a stupid anti-european troll. I don't know what are he doing in a european forum.
Where is your father from? Only Istanbul?
Well, I know but i think you are mostly Mediterranean and can pass in most places of Europe. This should make a person white, shouldn't it? European + Turanid admixtures, Lappid, Ladogan, Alföld still looks very white to me as well. I don't know anything about Stormfront criteria, but they are already just crazy people.
My mother is a Bosnian, my father is ethnic Turk from Istanbul originally.
Trying to pass as white is smth fragile. Some Slavs can accept you as whites, but some Greeks like on this site can call you things like canine and try try to dehumanize you. So, I have my pride to not try fitting a group of people not wanting us to be members.
A haplogroup is not a people, Scandinavians have some of the most steppe admixture in europe yet are mostly haplogroup I, and there is a group of africans who have an overwhelming haplogroup R1-b
They are more R1 than I when R1b + R1a are combined. Regardless, it appears that Finnic founder group was already very NE European. There is no proof original Finno-Ugrics were mongoloids.
Ymyyakhtakh
11-02-2019, 07:20 PM
He has lappid eyes for sure. You won't find them in pure white Norwegians or Swedes for sure.
What about these Swedish football players?
https://i.imgur.com/K3wi3X1.jpg
??
Slavs are European culturally, they have nothing to do with Asia. That includes all Slavs except muslim ones.
Western and part of southern Slavs adopted same culture as rest of western Europe founded by Franks. Eastern and part of southern Slavs adopted orthodox Christian culture from Byzantine Greeks which were European power.
You're bit lost. Bosniaks are white. Just their culture isn't European. And my own father is direct descendant of Bosnian muslim nobility.
We are saying same things actually.
Blood is not changeable by religion. But, most Europeans don't this way.
21993
11-02-2019, 07:21 PM
@OP
Icelandic people are relatively less mixed.
He's a stupid anti-european troll. I don't know what are he doing in a european forum.
I'm not anti European. My mother is ethnically European and I love her.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:21 PM
My mother is a Bosnian, my father is ethnic Turk from Istanbul originally.
Trying to pass as white is smth fragile. Some Slavs can accept you as whites, but some Greeks like on this site can call you things like canine and try try to dehumanize you. So, I have my pride to not try fitting a group of people not wanting us to be members.
I had no idea Turks have such big need to pass as "white" xD
Pansarkamrat
11-02-2019, 07:23 PM
Iceland
21993
11-02-2019, 07:23 PM
I had no idea Turks have such big need to pass as "white" xD
No, we don’t. If not, most of us don’t have such a need.
Blondie
11-02-2019, 07:23 PM
I'm not anti European. My mother is ethnically European and I love her.
Non european trolls like you ruined this forum.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:25 PM
No, we don’t. If not, most of us don’t have such a need.
I know. That is why I don't know what mete is trying to prove.
War Chef
11-02-2019, 07:26 PM
Finland of course. They are not only mix of ost-Europid + west-Europid but also have a Mongoloid component thrown in the mix.
Slavs are European culturally, they have nothing to do with Asia.
Yep, even the Russians (early Russian identity) originated in what is now Ukraine, Belarus + Pskov, Smolensk, Novgorod. I'm sure before 1600 (the Fall of Kazan, Siberian expansion, etc.) we were overall more 'Western' genetically, more similar to Belarus and Northern Ukraine. Remember the Sunghir sample.
21993
11-02-2019, 07:27 PM
I know. That is why I don't know what mete is trying to prove.
Actually I don’t think he is trying to pass as white but he is trying to say passing as white might sometimes be subjective.
I had no idea Turks have such big need to pass as "white" xD
I already don't have such a need. I'm sure I'm genetically and phenotypically more European than average Greek insulting me on this site. But, point is how people can be filled with hate for whom they don't know not a bit.
TheOldNorth
11-02-2019, 07:30 PM
They are more R1 than I when R1b + R1a are combined. Regardless, it appears that Finnic founder group was already very NE European. There is no proof original Finno-Ugrics were mongoloids.
perhaps the fact most uralic speaking groups have at least a decent amount of east asian admixture of some kind, and the fact that the finns have a good 5% east asian admixture
Hyoga7
11-02-2019, 07:30 PM
OMG, this thread has gone off the rails like a raging bull!
I know. That is why I don't know what mete is trying to prove.
I try to say you de-europeanized Bosnians because of their religion. But, your religion and sects are not Indo-European and not white originally too. I also say religions don't change one's genes, blood.
War Chef
11-02-2019, 07:31 PM
OMG, this thread has gone off the rails like a raging bull!
There is no question here. The answer is Finland.
Kayra
11-02-2019, 07:31 PM
My mother is a Bosnian, my father is ethnic Turk from Istanbul originally.
Trying to pass as white is smth fragile. Some Slavs can accept you as whites, but some Greeks like on this site can call you things like canine and try try to dehumanize you. So, I have my pride to not try fitting a group of people not wanting us to be members.
Noone tries to pass as white, i don't care about being white or not. If you look white then you are white. The another thing is you can't make your genes white lol. So comparing two populations like "who is more white genetically" sounds stupid.
Phenotype, genetic, culture, linguistic, etc. all different things. Your genome is mostly European, your phenotype is European(you are not iranid btw.) but your culture and language are not. You may say i'm not European and everyone will accept it because you feel like that, actually, every Turk feel like that. But saying "i'm not white just because they don't want me" is illogical.
I have been lurking in this forum for two years and i have seen so many retarded. Petros is just a lifeless idiot, wwww too. Even no need to enter any dialogue with them. There are decent Greek people too.
What about these Swedish football players?
https://i.imgur.com/K3wi3X1.jpg
Probably they have Norrland or Finnish ancestry.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:37 PM
I try to say you de-europeanized Bosnians because of their religion. But, your religion and sects are not Indo-European and not white originally too. I also say religions don't change one's genes, blood.
Bosniaks, not Bosnian. You should know there are Serbs from Bosnia called Bosnians as well.
Bosniaks/Muslims are traitors for Serbs historically and Islam as religion is generally non-welcomed in Europe as it is related with Ottoman invasion.
Noone tries to pass as white, i don't care about being white or not. If you look white then you are white. The another thing is you can't make your genes white lol. So comparing two populations like "who is more white genetically" sounds stupid.
Phenotype, genetic, culture, linguistic, etc. all different things. Your genome is mostly European, your phenotype is European(you are not iranid btw.) but your culture and language are not. You may say i'm not European and everyone will accept it because you feel like that, actually, every Turk feel like that. But saying "i'm not white just because they don't want me" is illogical.
I have been lurking in this forum for two years and i have seen so many retarded. Petros is just a lifeless idiot, wwww too. Even no need to enter any dialogue with them. There are decent Greek people too.
I believe you're not the darkest even by Balkan standards, let alone Anadolu.
nittionia
11-02-2019, 07:38 PM
I hope everyone had a nice Halloween if you celebrate it too
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:40 PM
I hope everyone had a nice Halloween if you celebrate it too
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No thanks.
War Chef
11-02-2019, 07:45 PM
I hope everyone had a nice Halloween if you celebrate it too
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kinda random but thanks
Yes I did
Every day is a holiday for me
Bosniaks, not Bosnian. You should know there are Serbs from Bosnia called Bosnians as well.
Bosniaks/Muslims are traitors for Serbs historically and Islam as religion is generally non-welcomed in Europe as it is related with Ottoman invasion.
Okay then genocide us. It's right to genocide traitors?
Evrim
11-02-2019, 07:51 PM
This thread gone mad. I think Iceland has more homogeneous society.
Okay then genocide us. It's right to genocide traitors?
It is necessary to genocide trolls digitally :p
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:52 PM
Okay then genocide us. It's right to genocide traitors?
Don't play victim it is so touchy. You never heard what Muslims did to us? In last war and before, when they were Ottomans?
I'm not anti European. My mother is ethnically European and I love her.
You're half European and you look white. It would be most natural to identify as Eurasian for you, I believe (as Turks are already Eurasian). But that is just my opinion.
Don't play victim it is so touchy. You never heard what Muslims did to us? In last war and before, when they were Ottomans?
We didn't genocide you.
It is necessary to genocide trolls digitally :p
I'm not trolling, I'm serious.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:55 PM
We didn't genocide you.
:lol: yeah right
I know you reffer to Srebrenica so I will tell you. Srebrenica was a war crime. Definition of genocide is different of what happened there.
You're half European and you look white. It would be most natural to identify as Eurasian for you, I believe (as Turks are already Eurasian). But that is just my opinion.
Online Turks tend to love their mongoloid ancestry. I'm not particularly fond of mine (I'd rather be Polish genetically) but I don't make a big deal out of it either (you saw me, it's not noticeable in me whatsoever).
:lol: yeah right
I know you reffer to Srebrenica so I will tell you. Srebrenica was a war crime. Definition of genocide is different of what happened there.
Serbs comitted genocide against Bosnian muslims during WW2 in Eastern Bosnia. I think I already presented evidence for that.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 07:56 PM
Serbs comitted genocide against Bosnian muslims during WW2 in Eastern Bosnia. I think I already presented evidence for that.
I think you know about evidences what Ustase and Muslims did to Serbs, but better don't start that topic.
Online Turks tend to love their mongoloid ancestry. I'm not particularly fond of mine (I'd rather be Polish genetically) but I don't make a big deal out of it either (you saw me, it's not noticeable in me whatsoever).
Now I'm Mongoloid?
Dorian
11-02-2019, 07:58 PM
We didn't genocide you.
Dumb fucker :rofl_002::rofl_002::rofl_002::rofl_002: https://i.postimg.cc/3Jgtj91z/Screenshot-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Yep, even the Russians (early Russian identity) originated in what is now Ukraine, Belarus + Pskov, Smolensk, Novgorod. I'm sure before 1600 (the Fall of Kazan, Siberian expansion, etc.) we were overall more 'Western' genetically, more similar to Belarus and Northern Ukraine. Remember the Sunghir sample.
Yes. European culture and history would be unimaginable without Russia. Russians are white Europeans who just conquered large parts of northern Asia and vast majority of Russians live in European part of Russia.
Hopefully most Russians reject that Eurasianist stuff and realize Europe needs unity.
Now I'm Mongoloid?
I wasn't talking about you, you haven't even done a test.
Hyoga7
11-02-2019, 07:59 PM
TheOldNorth,
if you take a look at the Eupedia Y-DNA frequency for Finland/Iceland 92274
which would you say is the more mixed country; the more homogeneous country?
And why?
I think you know about evidences what Ustase and Muslims did to Serbs, but better don't start that topic.
So? Unlike you we don't deny that. You deny ganocide against Bosnian muslims and it happened. Should I mentioned Serbia was ethnically cleansed from Serbian muslims after Ottomans were gone?
Which is completely understandible by the way, I just don't like some Serbs pretending their own group never killed or genocided other groups.
I think you know about evidences what Ustase and Muslims did to Serbs, but better don't start that topic.
Is it my fault? I condemn all genocides and hateful attacks on some groups. I don't care if you are Serbian or Croatian. But, you hate even Bosnians like me due to Christian zealous mindset.
https://youtu.be/euR-6BS9FiQ
Similar things happened to pagan real Europeans made by zealous Christians.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 08:04 PM
Is it my fault? I condemn all genocides and hateful attacks on some groups. I don't care if you are Serbian or Croatian. But, you hate even Bosnians like me due to Christian zealous mindset.
https://youtu.be/euR-6BS9FiQ
Similar things happened to pagan real Europeans made by zealous Christians.
First sentence you posted on this forum that I notice was "I hope there is no those bad Serbs who will attack me" so much about your "tolerance" and "opendmindness" :lol:
Yes. European culture and history would be unimaginable without Russia. Russians are white Europeans who just conquered large parts of northern Asia and vast majority of Russians live in European part of Russia.
Hopefully most Russians reject that Eurasianist stuff and realize Europe needs unity.
Won't go into politics but I was brought up European, we think of ourselves as white. In fact my parents are no big fans of Asians, Muslims, Jews, etc. Probably even less than I am. We don't look mixed either, I was surprised when I tested myself and my mom, I thought she would be a lot less 'Eastern' because she doesn't look so.
First sentence you posted on this forum that I notice was "I hope there is no those bad Serbs who will attack me" so much about your "tolerance" and "opendmindness" :lol:
I have seen many Serbs cursing Croats, Bosniaks etc. I meant them.
Bosniaks, not Bosnian. You should know there are Serbs from Bosnia called Bosnians as well.
Does this distinction exist in Serbo-Croatian?
Östsvensk
11-02-2019, 08:32 PM
Depends how you look at it. Finns are a more homogenous people than Icelanders, as they descend from fewer ancestral sources than other Europeans do. On the other hand, Finns do have some Far Asian admixture (about 5% in general, a little higher if they are from Eastern or Northern Finland), which is more distanced than all the various mixed components combined that Europeans have. It is clearly erroneous to correlate the amount of Y-DNA to the amount of autosomal admixture in the Finns case, as this would mean that Finns, having 60% N1c, were at least 30% Siberian Mongoloid. This is certainly off.
Moje ime
11-02-2019, 08:39 PM
Does this distinction exist in Serbo-Croatian?
Of course.
Bosniak - Bošnjak.
Bosnian - Bosanac.
War Chef
11-02-2019, 08:47 PM
I don't really get the hate about Turks honestly. Every time I support Turks ppl just think I am some secret Turk in hiding.
My logic is: All Europeans have Neolithic farming ancestry in them, even the most northern Finns. So why hate something that is part of us all?
Hyoga7
11-02-2019, 08:51 PM
Depends how you look at it. Finns are a more homogenous people than Icelanders, as they descend from fewer ancestral sources than other Europeans do. On the other hand, Finns do have some Far Asian admixture (about 5% in general, a little higher if they are from Eastern or Northern Finland), which is more distanced than all the various mixed components combined that Europeans have. It is clearly erroneous to correlate the amount of Y-DNA to the amount of autosomal admixture in the Finns case, as this would mean that Finns, having 60% N1c, were at least 30% Siberian Mongoloid. This is certainly off.
Thanks for keeping the discussion on the topic at hand! Does anyone know if it is possible to remove all the messages that have nothing to do with this topic?
I do see your point about the Y-DNA (I myself stated that I wasn't sure about its adequacy for this).
But doesn't Iceland have also few ancestral sources? Wasn't it just Vikings and Celts that went to that "remote" island?
Finland is also "remote", but it probably had more population movements than Iceland: Swedish Vikings, Baltics, Russian Slavs, Finno-Ugric, etc...
Östsvensk
11-02-2019, 09:06 PM
Thanks for keeping the discussion on the topic at hand! Does anyone know if it is possible to remove all the messages that have nothing to do with this topic?
I do see your point about the Y-DNA (I myself stated that I wasn't sure about its adequacy for this).
But doesn't Iceland have also few ancestral sources? Wasn't it just Vikings and Celts that went to that "remote" island?
Finland is also "remote", but it probably had more population movements than Iceland: Swedish Vikings, Baltics, Russian Slavs, Finno-Ugric, etc...
Icelanders seem to be pretty regular Scandinavians (Norwegians) from what I have seen on GEDMATCH results. They are probably more homogenous than Scandinavians, who have gotten a lot of continental European and a bit Finnish influence. Gothenburg, the second largest city of Sweden, was founded by Scotsmen and Dutchmen for example. Then they saw a lot of German migration in the Middle Ages. So yes, I suppose one could say that Icelanders are genetically more "Viking" than the rest.
Dušan
11-02-2019, 09:06 PM
Does this distinction exist in Serbo-Croatian?
In everyday use, nobody Bosnian Muslims call Bosniaks, but simply Muslims.
coolfrenchguy
11-08-2019, 02:49 AM
finland by far,iceland is only around 500.000 inhabitants
Grace O'Malley
11-08-2019, 04:01 AM
I would say that Iceland is more mixed but mostly with Northwestern Europeans. Genetic studies say they are primarily descended from of founding population of Norse, Irish & Scots with the males being mostly Norse of course. The Vikings might possibly have had females from other populations as well although the bulk do appear to be Irish and Scots and they cluster with other Northwest Europeans.
Finland would be more homogeneous as they form their own cluster.
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/55d49893e4b0caee6f77186f/1559843339212-3ABEL2NK6X5EPTWBXJV7/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kNZZrSIXSB8b1FFURETINVlZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH 8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PITrRalicwp1T9WjCkuC6JNL O3tA9u_78qH8okaiZjc8A/DNA+ethnicity+estimation+Ancestry+reference+panels +populations+Jayne+3.png?format=1000w
Coastal Elite
11-08-2019, 04:35 AM
I would say that Iceland is more mixed but mostly with Northwestern Europeans. Genetic studies say they are primarily descended from of founding population of Norse, Irish & Scots with the males being mostly Norse of course. The Vikings might possibly have had females from other populations as well although the bulk do appear to be Irish and Scots and they cluster with other Northwest Europeans.
Finland would be more homogeneous as they form their own cluster.
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/55d49893e4b0caee6f77186f/1559843339212-3ABEL2NK6X5EPTWBXJV7/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kNZZrSIXSB8b1FFURETINVlZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH 8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PITrRalicwp1T9WjCkuC6JNL O3tA9u_78qH8okaiZjc8A/DNA+ethnicity+estimation+Ancestry+reference+panels +populations+Jayne+3.png?format=1000w
Finland is always chillin' in it's own cluster. Doing it's own thing. Not trying to run with the mainstream.
Grace O'Malley
11-08-2019, 08:39 AM
There is less IBD with others if you form your own cluster. There was a study done on this a few years ago. Just looking at a genetic plot you can see what populations share more IBD. A bit OT but populations like the Basque are interesting because they were surrounded by other populations but I think they lived in a more mountainous area and mountains are always a good genetic barrier.
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555
Must be Finland on account of geography.
Messier 67
11-09-2019, 06:17 PM
Iceland should be more mixed, they have significant British Isles admixure. Finns are not mixed, except in SW Finland (with Swedes), I think.
True, you have Finland that is 80% Nordic N/I1. This 62% N is more pure blood in Finland than Icelanders.
In Iceland, you have 42% Celtic, 23% Slavic and 33% Nordic.
True, you have Finland that is 80% Nordic N/I1. This 62% N is more pure blood in Finland than Icelanders.
In Iceland, you have 42% Celtic, 23% Slavic and 33% Nordic.
Iceland has nothing Slavic.
Token
11-09-2019, 06:40 PM
True, you have Finland that is 80% Nordic N/I1. This 62% N is more pure blood in Finland than Icelanders.
In Iceland, you have 42% Celtic, 23% Slavic and 33% Nordic.
Icelanders are over 70% Norse, the rest is Irish.
Messier 67
11-09-2019, 07:28 PM
Iceland has nothing Slavic.
R1a in Europe is from proto-Slavs/Corded Ware
R1b in Europe is mainly from proto-celts/Bell Beaker
Is and Gs are mainly the native Europeans.
The first Norsemen were I2, then R1a wiped most of them out, then R1b arrived to merge with R1a, and I1 came in to form the Nordic Germanic nations. Only R1a and R1bs are the same. I1s are very different than celts and slavs, Is were in Europe for tens of thousands of years.
Finland is 62% N1c and as you pointed out there are regions of Finns and then there are regions of Swedes. Iceland is simply mixed.
R1a in Europe is from proto-Slavs/Corded Ware
R1b in Europe is mainly from proto-celts/Bell Beaker
Is and Gs are mainly the native Europeans.
The first Norsemen were I2, then R1a wiped most of them out, then R1b arrived to merge with R1a, and I1 came in to form the Nordic Germanic nations. Only R1a and R1bs are the same. I1s are very different than celts and slavs, Is were in Europe for tens of thousands of years.
Finland is 62% N1c and as you pointed out there are regions of Finns and then there are regions of Swedes. Iceland is simply mixed.
Wrong. R1a Scandinavian clade is Germanic and has nothing to do with Slavs.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Europe_R1a_Z284.jpg
Messier 67
11-09-2019, 08:03 PM
Wrong. R1a Scandinavian clade is Germanic and has nothing to do with Slavs.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Europe_R1a_Z284.jpg
That is what it is labeled, still from the Corded Ware/proto-slavs:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Map_Corded_Ware_culture-en.svg/1920px-Map_Corded_Ware_culture-en.svg.png
If the R1b beakers and the Nordic I1 Germanics never went there, they would be some slavic-like tribe. To show you that Germanic is not pure, like Finns are not exactly pure. Germanic is mixed to begin with. Even the pure Saxons, who were 67% I, had 33% R1. So if the Saxons were mixed and they are among the purest of the Germanics, the Icelanders who are a mix of Corded Ware, Beakers and Nordic I1s are a mixed group.
That is what it is labeled, still from the Corded Ware/proto-slavs:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Map_Corded_Ware_culture-en.svg/1920px-Map_Corded_Ware_culture-en.svg.png
If the R1b beakers and the Nordic I1 Germanics never went there, they would be some slavic-like tribe. To show you that Germanic is not pure, like Finns are not exactly pure. Germanic is mixed to begin with. Even the pure Saxons, who were 67% I, had 33% R1. So if the Saxons were mixed and they are among the purest of the Germanics, the Icelanders who are a mix of Corded Ware, Beakers and Nordic I1s are a mixed group.
Corded Ware was not proto-Slavic. Proto-Slavs didn't carry this type of R1a and it is non-existant in Slavic countries.
Germanics don't originate entirely from Bell Beakers, only predominately, they also received Corded Ware countribution trough this type of R1a as well as R1a L664, which peaks in Low countries and England.
Corded Ware was not proto-Slavic. Proto-Slavs didn't carry this type of R1a and it is non-existant in Slavic countries.
Germanics don't originate entirely from Bell Beakers, only predominately, they also received Corded Ware countribution trough this type of R1a as well as R1a L664, which peaks in Low countries and England.
The usual logic is "nedoslavjane" In Russian, this means - people are not completely Slavs. In fact, R1a is an exclusively Slavic haplogroup. These are Aryans, the first people who speak Slavic = Indo-European. Croatian Balkans are not Slavs, it is a parody of us.
Messier 67
11-09-2019, 08:20 PM
Corded Ware was not proto-Slavic. Proto-Slavs didn't carry this type of R1a and it is non-existant in Slavic countries.
Germanics don't originate entirely from Bell Beakers, only predominately, they also received Corded Ware countribution trough this type of R1a as well as R1a L664, which peaks in Low countries and England.
R1a L664 were still from the Yamnaya invasion, so are related to the other Corded Ware haplotypes.
Of course it is a different haplotype, but they were from the Corded Ware invasion.
Poland = 57.5% R1a and speaks slavic
Belarus = 51% R1a and speaks slavic
Russia = 46% R1a and speaks slavic
Ukraine = 44% R1a and speaks slavic
Slovakia = 41.5% R1a and speaks slavic
Latvia = 40% R1a and speaks Balto-Slavic
Slovenia = 38% R1a and speaks slavic
Lithuania = 33% R1a and speaks Balto-slavic
Different haplotypes of R1a for different regions and they speak slavic.
Anyplace in Europe where the population is over 33% R1a, that place has a slavic language.
The R1a L664 were no different, they come from the same invasion. They are not Germanic. R1a+R1b+I1 makes things Germanic. Germanic is a mix (therefore Iceland is a mix). Where the Germanic language started is two options, a combination of beaker and corded. Or the combination of beaker, corded and nordic I1.
The usual logic is "nedoslavjane" In Russian, this means - people are not completely Slavs. In fact, R1a is an exclusively Slavic haplogroup. These are Aryans, the first people who speak Slavic = Indo-European. Croatian Balkans are not Slavs, it is a parody of us.
Please stop pestering me. And who are ''us''? You are annoying and uneducated. Slavic clades of R1a are different from Germanic ones.
There are no mixed peoples. Any mixed person does not belong completely to his people. If there were no mixing, then there would be no Finns and Icelanders. And the Icelanders were called Norwegians, and the Finns would be called Khanty.
R1a L664 were still from the Yamnaya invasion, so are related to the other Corded Ware haplotypes.
Of course it is a different haplotype, but they were from the Corded Ware invasion.
Poland = 57.5% R1a and speaks slavic
Belarus = 51% R1a and speaks slavic
Russia = 46% R1a and speaks slavic
Ukraine = 44% R1a and speaks slavic
Slovakia = 41.5% R1a and speaks slavic
Latvia = 40% R1a and speaks Balto-Slavic
Slovenia = 38% R1a and speaks slavic
Lithuania = 33% R1a and speaks Balto-slavic
Different haplotypes of R1a for different regions and they speak slavic.
Anyplace in Europe where the population is over 33% R1a, that place has a slavic language.
The R1a L664 were no different, they come from the same invasion. They are not Germanic. R1a+R1b+I1 makes things Germanic. Germanic is a mix (therefore Iceland is a mix). Where the Germanic language started is two options, a combination of beaker and corded. Or the combination of beaker, corded and nordic I1.
No. All Slavic countries have R1a Z280 and R1A M458 and it's subclades, those are Slavic linages. Those NW R1a types have nothing to do with Slavs and did not participate in their ethnogenesis.
Corded Ware was just IE culture and in that time Germanics nor Slavs existed. They emerged later.
Token
11-09-2019, 08:25 PM
That is what it is labeled, still from the Corded Ware/proto-slavs:
If the R1b beakers and the Nordic I1 Germanics never went there, they would be some slavic-like tribe. To show you that Germanic is not pure, like Finns are not exactly pure. Germanic is mixed to begin with. Even the pure Saxons, who were 67% I, had 33% R1. So if the Saxons were mixed and they are among the purest of the Germanics, the Icelanders who are a mix of Corded Ware, Beakers and Nordic I1s are a mixed group.
Which Saxons are you talking about? From where did you got these numbers?
The usual logic is "nedoslavjane" In Russian, this means - people are not completely Slavs. In fact, R1a is an exclusively Slavic haplogroup. These are Aryans, the first people who speak Slavic = Indo-European.
Also, stop larping as Aryan muzhik. It's enough nazis larped as Aryans and tried to exterminate your folk based off their lunatic theories.
Aryans are only Indo-Iranian speakers, and their clade is R1a Z93, which has nothing to do with Slavs nor with Russians.
Please stop pestering me. And who are ''us''? You are annoying and uneducated. Slavic clades of R1a are different from Germanic ones.
You are the only user here who writes nonsense. You and your boyfriend annoy me. Two degenerates. Therefore, I pester you. P1a of all Slavic and German subclades are descendants of the Slavs. Ancient subclades, for one reason or another, were replaced by modern subclades, which in ancient times were less common.
You are the only user here who writes nonsense. You and your boyfriend annoy me. Two degenerates. Therefore, I pester you. P1a of all Slavic and German subclades are descendants of the Slavs. Ancient subclades, for one reason or another, were replaced by modern subclades, which in ancient times were less common.
Germans mostly carry Slavic types of R1a stupid. Norwegians and other Norsemen do not.
There is absolutely no Slavic blood in Iceland, and only two types of R1a are Slavic.
Also, stop larping as Aryan muzhik. It's enough nazis larped as Aryans and tried to exterminate your folk based off their lunatic theories.
Aryans are only Indo-Iranian speakers, and their clade is R1a Z93, which has nothing to do with Slavs nor with Russians.
Aryans = Indo-Europeans. There is nothing Nazi about this term. Aryans are Tajiks, Poles, and Russians. But more are the Slavs, that is, those who have more P1a. Slavic language is the oldest. This is a direct branch of the Indo-European language, which originates from the territory of Russia. All Europeans come from Russia. The fact that you are mixed with something else, non-Aryan, we are interested in Eastern Slavs.
Germans mostly carry Slavic types of R1a stupid. Norwegians and other Norsemen do not.
There is absolutely no Slavic blood in Iceland, and only two types of R1a are Slavic.
You do not understand what the Slavs are. The Slavs and the Balts are the first Corded Ware.
You are the only user here who writes nonsense. You and your boyfriend annoy me. Two degenerates. Therefore, I pester you. P1a of all Slavic and German subclades are descendants of the Slavs. Ancient subclades, for one reason or another, were replaced by modern subclades, which in ancient times were less common.
Hey, Alex, nice to see you. Is this your fourth or fifth account on TA?
Aryans = Indo-Europeans. There is nothing Nazi about this term. Aryans are Tajiks, Poles, and Russians. But more are the Slavs, that is, those who have more P1a. Slavic language is the oldest. This is a direct branch of the Indo-European language, which originates from the territory of Russia. All Europeans come from Russia. The fact that you are mixed with something else, non-Aryan, we are interested in Eastern Slavs.
No, you are not Aryans. Only Indo-Iranians called themself Aryans, and they are not your kin.
Also Lithuanian language is closest to old IE in Europe.
You are entirely non-Aryan, but if you find Persian or Punjabi bride your children will have chance to be at least half Aryan xD
Hey, Alex, nice to see you. Is this your fourth or fifth account on TA?
Hi who are you? Is that the same pidaras kotoriy ebёt svoyu mat' komi?
Token
11-09-2019, 08:38 PM
You do not understand what the Slavs are. The Slavs and the Balts are the first Corded Ware.
Corded Ware predates any of these labels. They spoke at best some generic Italo-Celtic-Balto-Slavic-Germanic language
Future Sche Aryan wife (Punjabi)
https://www.larutadelsorigens.cat/filelook/full/45/453345/punjabi-girl-hd-wallpaper.jpg
In Europe Gypsy folks are most Aryan group. Those in Croatia are mostly R1a Z93. You can always offer your daughter to Morti for marriage, my dear.
Indo-European is not synonymous with Aryan. The Slavs are IE but they never had an Aryan identity, it's bullshit that started during the Perestroika when people started to look for a new identity after socialism and communism lost ground.
Future Sche Aryan wife (Punjabi)
https://www.larutadelsorigens.cat/filelook/full/45/453345/punjabi-girl-hd-wallpaper.jpg
In Europe Gypsy folks are most Aryan group. Those in Croatia are mostly R1a Z93. You can always offer your daughter to Morti for marriage, my dear.
Gypsies majority R1a in Croatia? Really? I thought R1a was very low in Gypsies.
Daos777
11-09-2019, 08:41 PM
Future Sche Aryan wife (Punjabi)
https://www.larutadelsorigens.cat/filelook/full/45/453345/punjabi-girl-hd-wallpaper.jpg
In Europe Gypsy folks are most Aryan group. Those in Croatia are mostly R1a Z93. You can always offer your daughter to Morti for marriage, my dear.
Is that actually true genetically though? Sure Aryans reaches Indians and interbreed with them but Indians even North Indians have way too much Dravidian and whatever else admixture to actually fall themselves “aryan”
Hi who are you? Is that the same pidaras kotoriy ebёt svoyu mat' komi?
This is really bad of you, man. You lost all credibility as a serious and intelligent individual.
Pribislav
11-09-2019, 08:43 PM
Gypsies majority R1a in Croatia? Really? I thought R1a was very low in Gypsies.
Macedonian and Kosovo Gypsies are mostly E-V13. That Feiichy's claim is weird to me.
No, you are not Aryans. Only Indo-Iranians called themself Aryans, and they are not your kin.
Also Lithuanian language is closest to old IE in Europe.
You are entirely non-Aryan, but if you find Persian or Punjabi bride your children will have chance to be at least half Aryan xD
We are all Aryans - people who speak the IE language. just stop seeing something special in this term. I don’t care what to call it. I am Russian, of Slavic origin, not Komi and not Veps. You are a Croat of Slavic origin. We will begin to understand each other only when you become a pagan, like me. Not Catholic or Orthodox. The Christian religion separated the Slavs.
Messier 67
11-09-2019, 08:45 PM
Which Saxons are you talking about? From where did you got these numbers?
Link is dead:
http://link.springer.com.sci-hub.io/article/10.1007%2Fs00194-015-0043-4
If you can login in:
12 samples from Görzig (Saxony-Anhalt) dated to the 300s-400s AD, of whom 7 or 8 were I1:
I1 --------------------------------------------------------- 7 (~58%)
I (likely I2 but can be some Russian clade of I1) ---- 1 (~8%)
R1b ------------------------------------------------------- 1 (~8%)
R1 (most likely R1a, or some eastern R1b) ----------- 1 (~8%)
R1 (likely R1b but can be R1a-Z284 or L664) -------- 2 (~17%)
Source (see Table 3. on page 6 out of 7): LINK
Location of Görzig:
This shows that Ancient Germania was dominated by I1, not by R1b like today.
In this sample I1 is between 58% and 67%, while in modern Germany just 16%.
==========================
R1b came to dominate what is now Germany only as the result of Frankish conquest:
Here is my hypothesis:
1) Frankish realm = R1b majority; Germanic tribes between Rhine and Elbe, including Saxons = I1 / I majority:
The extent of the Frankish realm in the 5th century and its early expansion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJHEXQdtt6Q
2) Franks expand into Pagan Saxons, Thuringians and others; with Frankish authority come many R1b settlers:
3) Further expansion of East Francia - or Germany as it is now called - into Slavic lands between Elbe and Oder:
Settlers who expanded into lands between Rhine and Oder came mostly from these areas:
"Ostsiedlung" settlers came from areas which are today the Netherlands, Belgium, and the French-German borderland. Most of them spoke West Germanic dialects, but many also spoke Romance (e.g. Walloons). Ashkenazi Jews were part of that too.
Many came from westernmost parts of modern Germany (the Rhineland). Many also came from Friesland (Frisia).
Modern situation (numerically dominant haplogroup by country):
Of course details are wrong in this map (for example, the most numerous hg in Sardinia is in fact I2):
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32226-Y-DNA-from-Germany-in-the-300s-400s-AD-shows-58-frequency-of-I1-and-not-much-R1b?highlight=saxon
Since this German Tribe of Saxons has no Z284, you would assume the Germanics are a mixed tribe(s) of Corded, Beaker and Nordics (R1a, R1b, and I1). Same is true for Germanic Iceland, they are a mix. I1 was more important to Germanic tribes than Z284. Simply Z284 and you have a slavic speaking tribe. Norway would be slavic. The Beaker invasion and the I1 invasion made the Germanic tribes what they are today. Finns are two groups mainly: Finnic people and Swedish I1, so they are less mixed.
Insulting people's relatives for no reason is absolutely unacceptable. I don't know you personally, you've never met me and forum discussions mean nothing in reality. I've never insulted you as an individual, let alone your parents.
Gypsies majority R1a in Croatia? Really? I thought R1a was very low in Gypsies.
They are mostly H in Europe, followed by E1b, but Croatian and Hungarian Gypsies are exception to this:
R1a1a1b2 (R-Z93) (Asia)
R-M780 occurs at high frequency in South Asia: India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Himalayas. The group also occurs at >3% in some Iranian populations and is present at >30% in Roma from Croatia and Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#R1a1a1b2_(R-Z93)_(Asia)
This is really bad of you, man. You lost all credibility as a serious and intelligent individual.
I do not know you. Why are you clinging to me? I'm an alcoholic, leave me alone, damned Komi.
Is that actually true genetically though? Sure Aryans reaches Indians and interbreed with them but Indians even North Indians have way too much Dravidian and whatever else admixture to actually fall themselves “aryan”
Aryan is linguistic term. And they speak Aryan languages. We don't. They are very mixed as most other groups.
Corded Ware predates any of these labels. They spoke at best some generic Italo-Celtic-Balto-Slavic-Germanic language
Something like this?
https://youtu.be/k1Jktk9Ioao
Pribislav
11-09-2019, 08:54 PM
They are mostly H in Europe, followed by E1b, but Croatian and Hungarian Gypsies are exception to this:
R1a1a1b2 (R-Z93) (Asia)
R-M780 occurs at high frequency in South Asia: India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Himalayas. The group also occurs at >3% in some Iranian populations and is present at >30% in Roma from Croatia and Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#R1a1a1b2_(R-Z93)_(Asia)
What is the sample for study about Croatian and Hungarian Gypsies?
Gypsies are descedants of the lowest Indian caste (" untouchables") who were of Dravidian origin H haplogroup, not descendants of Indo-Aryans who were R1a-Z93. Proto-Gypsies on the way towards the Europe mixes with Middle Easterners and in Eurupe they hot some European influence.
Science has long known that the first Indo-Europeans Cordéd Ware spoke the Baltic-Slavic language. This is a straight branch. The German language is a secondary branch mixed with the Siberian language. Such important words as a house and a horse in the German language are of Altai origin, but not Indo-European.
♥ Lily ♥
11-09-2019, 08:55 PM
Historical and DNA records indicate that around 60 to 80 percent of the male settlers were of Norse origin (primarily from Western Norway) and a similar percentage of the women were of Gaelic stock from Ireland and peripheral Scotland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelanders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iceland#Irish_monks
They are mostly H in Europe, followed by E1b, but Croatian and Hungarian Gypsies are exception to this:
R1a1a1b2 (R-Z93) (Asia)
R-M780 occurs at high frequency in South Asia: India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Himalayas. The group also occurs at >3% in some Iranian populations and is present at >30% in Roma from Croatia and Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#R1a1a1b2_(R-Z93)_(Asia)
Hopefully they have a bit more white blood than the others because I don't believe in fantasies about kicking them out of Europe. That won't happen. The EU barely kicks out illegal Muslims and here we're talking about a group that's been present in Europe for hundreds of years, longer than America or Brazil exist. Gradual racial dilution of them is the only viable way to get rid of them.
♥ Lily ♥
11-09-2019, 08:56 PM
I would say that Iceland is more mixed but mostly with Northwestern Europeans. Genetic studies say they are primarily descended from of founding population of Norse, Irish & Scots with the males being mostly Norse of course. The Vikings might possibly have had females from other populations as well although the bulk do appear to be Irish and Scots and they cluster with other Northwest Europeans.
Finland would be more homogeneous as they form their own cluster.
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/55d49893e4b0caee6f77186f/1559843339212-3ABEL2NK6X5EPTWBXJV7/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kNZZrSIXSB8b1FFURETINVlZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH 8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PITrRalicwp1T9WjCkuC6JNL O3tA9u_78qH8okaiZjc8A/DNA+ethnicity+estimation+Ancestry+reference+panels +populations+Jayne+3.png?format=1000w
+1
Token
11-09-2019, 08:56 PM
Something like this?
https://youtu.be/k1Jktk9Ioao
I believe that would be even earlier, back when Indo-Europeans were still happily herding cows in the Pontic steppe.
What is the sample for study about Croatian and Hungarian Gypsies?
Gypsies are descedants of the lowest Indian caste (" untouchables") who were of Dravidian origin H haplogroup, not descendants of Indo-Aryans who were R1a-Z93. Proto-Gypsies on the way towards the Europe mixes with Middle Easterners and in Eurupe they hot some European influence.
They mixed with Kurds apparently, and Kurds have tons of R1a Z93. Could be from them, in part. Idk for sample side, but 30% R1a is a lot.
I believe that would be even earlier, back when Indo-Europeans were still happily herding cows in the Pontic steppe.
Does it sound more satem or centum, like the tocharias,to you?
♥ Lily ♥
11-09-2019, 09:00 PM
There's an estimated 80,000–100,000 or more Sami people.
There's 9350 Sami people in Finland, although I'm not sure what precise percentage that is within the total 5.5 million population of Finns.... but it's a very small percentage within their population.
Norway 37,890–60,000
Sweden 14,600–36,000
Finland 9,350
Russia 1,991
United States 480 (first ancestry)
945 (first and second)
Ukraine 136
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1mi_people
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Nordic_Sami_people_Lavvu_1900-1920.jpg
They mixed with Kurds apparently, and Kurds have tons of R1a Z93. Could be from them, in part. Idk for sample side, but 30% R1a is a lot.
So 30% of them can be allowed to interbreed with whites xD R1a always boosts one's whiteness :cool:
Token
11-09-2019, 09:02 PM
Does it sound more satem or centum, like the tocharias,to you?
Sounds more Centum, which makes sense since Satemization was a later innovation.
Sounds more Centum, which makes sense since Satemization was a later innovation.
Do you think the Tocharians were the original Yamna? I remember reading that somewhere before
Token
11-09-2019, 09:09 PM
Do you think the Tocharians were the original Yamna? I remember reading that somewhere before
I think Proto-Tocharian developed out of Afanasevo, which was nonetheless merely a expansion of Yamnaya into Siberia. Historic Tocharians had East Asian admixture.
Pribislav
11-09-2019, 09:09 PM
They mixed with Kurds apparently, and Kurds have tons of R1a Z93. Could be from them, in part. Idk for sample side, but 30% R1a is a lot.
Gypsies in Serbia mostly look Middle Eastern and South Asian. Once I have seen beautiful Gypsy girl with light brown hair and blue eyes.
Gypsies in Serbia mostly look Middle Eastern and South Asian. Once I have seen beautiful Gypsy girl with light brown hair and blue eyes.
Yes I saw some very attractive Gypsies too.
Future Sche Aryan wife (Punjabi)
https://www.larutadelsorigens.cat/filelook/full/45/453345/punjabi-girl-hd-wallpaper.jpg
In Europe Gypsy folks are most Aryan group. Those in Croatia are mostly R1a Z93. You can always offer your daughter to Morti for marriage, my dear.
LOL. I think he would breed with any white woman who would agree to do so. And I don't blame him for that ;)
____________________________________
I'm in love with Madina from this UN University video! She is a Pamiri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaecMDew60&t=1s
Starting at 6:57
She does look like us but she actually has a ton of direct Aryan ancestry which makes her so unique. I bet she would be around 20% North European on GEDmatch
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/nLwF8rt/image.jpg
A lot prettier than Greta T. xD
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