[Question for Slav people] - Your Opinion on E-V13 Slav?

[MiloshN]

What is your position on the Slavs with the E-V13 haplogroup? Are they (we are) an equal member of the family?

Discussion...

[Crn Volk]

What is your position on the Slavs with the E-V13 haplogroup? Are they (we are) an equal member of the family?

Discussion...

Equal of course. Majority of Slavs today are Slavicized something

[PAGANE]

As for the southern Slavs, yes, that's normal. For the most part, southern Slavs are Slavic only in language.

[Crn Volk]

As for the southern Slavs, yes, that's normal. For the most part, southern Slavs are Slavic only in language.

Not just southern Slavs.

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Crn Volk; 6372203] Не само южните славяни. [/ QUOTE]

for other Slavs it is more exotic

[TheMaestro]

African white

https://i.imgur.com/MGFuMJU.jpg

[OrhanU]

My Y-DNA is E-V13 and I know my grandpa is from Prijepolje. Isn't he Slavic?

[MiloshN]

My Y-DNA is E-V13 and I know my grandpa is from Prijepolje. Isn't he Slavic?

Most likely.
But it is also possible that he was a Muslim.

[OrhanU]

Most likely.
But it is also possible that he was a Muslim.

As far as I know he was a muslim. But that is not referring to ethnicity I think.

[Artek]

Some E-V13 subclades could have played a part in forming early Slavic community but we don't know which ones. Rest of the E-V13 subclades were likely assimilated later.

Culturally speaking, they are the same Slavs like others. Most of E-V13 carriers have no idea their direct paternal ancestor was possibly not a proto-Slav but an Illyrian or Thracian or Greek. But other Balkan Slavs who carry typically Slavic Y-DNA signatures also have many ancestors with non-proto-slavic Y-DNA and they have autosomal admixture like others regardless of what their Y-DNA is. Since all are mixed but culturally Slavic, having Slavic or non-proto-Slavic Y-DNA doesn't make any difference.

[Dušan]

Culturally speaking, they are the same Slavs like others. Most of E-V13 carriers have no idea their direct paternal ancestor was possibly not a proto-Slav but an Illyrian or Thracian or Greek. But other Balkan Slavs who carry typically Slavic Y-DNA signatures also have many ancestors with non-proto-slavic Y-DNA and they have autosomal admixture like others regardless of what their Y-DNA is. Since all are mixed but culturally Slavic, having Slavic or non-proto-Slavic Y-DNA doesn't make any difference.

+1

[Blondie]

E-V13 is neolithic european.

[Kaspias]

Some E-V13 subclades could have played a part in forming early Slavic community but we don't know which ones. Rest of the E-V13 subclades were likely assimilated later.

Culturally speaking, they are the same Slavs like others. Most of E-V13 carriers have no idea their direct paternal ancestor was possibly not a proto-Slav but an Illyrian or Thracian or Greek. But other Balkan Slavs who carry typically Slavic Y-DNA signatures also have many ancestors with non-proto-slavic Y-DNA and they have autosomal admixture like others regardless of what their Y-DNA is. Since all are mixed but culturally Slavic, having Slavic or non-proto-Slavic Y-DNA doesn't make any difference.

+2

[Kyp]

My opinion on slavic E-V13 is that it's not slavic

[MustafaTekin]

I feel sorry for people who are ev13. this ydna has no charisma at all.

my y-dna ladder:

R1b > R1a > Q > N > G / L / J2 > T / R2 / C / I / > J1 > H > E

[PAGANE]

It is a haplogroup characteristic of the Balkans from the time until the Slavic expansion. I don't think it was related to the Slavs

[Daos777]

E-V13 cancels any Slavic autosomal DNA. Because Y-DNA is the most important part of genetics. That’s why I consider R1b Chad as invaders of Africa and should be driven back to their european homeland.


But anyways. It is proven in my example. Despite being mostly Slav autosomally I still in my mind want to be riding camels through the Sahara desert and wearing blue turbans

[Daos777]

E-V13 is neolithic european.

Nope.


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[TheMaestro]

E-V13 cancels any Slavic autosomal DNA. Because Y-DNA is the most important part of genetics. That’s why I consider R1b Chad as invaders of Africa and should be driven back to their european homeland.


But anyways. It is proven in my example. Despite being mostly Slav autosomally I still in my mind want to be riding camels through the Sahara desert and wearing blue turbans

r1b is from Asia

[Slavic Italian]

r1b is from Asia

Not quite.

[Slavic Italian]

By the way, there was one dork on here trying to claim Y DNA was not important. He either left or changed his handle. He loved Blondie to a degree that was scary.

[Daos777]

By the way, there was one dork on here trying to claim Y DNA was not important. He either left or changed his handle. He loved Blondie to a degree that was scary.

Do you feel close to R1b carriers from Chad?

[Slavic Italian]

Do you feel close to R1b carriers from Chad?

Not really.

[Jana]

I feel sorry for people who are ev13. this ydna has no charisma at all.

my y-dna ladder:

R1b > R1a > Q > N > G / L / J2 > T / R2 / C / I / > J1 > H > E

Hitler and Napoleon had no charisma? R1b is a boring haplogroup.

[Daos777]

Not really.

Why? Same haplogroup bro

[Slavic Italian]

Why? Same haplogroup bro

Not quite the same.

[Jana]

I find N1c (now called N1a) coolest haplogroup. I was hoping Stears would score it :)

[Slavic Italian]

I find N1c coolest haplogroup. I was hoping Stears would score it :)

LOL.

[Jana]

LOL.

Why?

[Slavic Italian]

Why?

Because does it matter?

[Daos777]

I find N1c (now called N1a) coolest haplogroup. I was hoping Stears would score it :)

The coolest haplo is C. They were the first people to enter Europe.


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[Jana]

Because does it matter?

Yes.

[Slavic Italian]

Yes.

Why?

[Jana]

Why?

Do surnames matter? Yes. So does YDNA.

[Ford]

Do surnames matter? Yes. So does YDNA.

lol xD

[Slavic Italian]

Do surnames matter? Yes. So does YDNA.

Surnames get changed especially in Russia.

[Jana]

lol xD

ydna is your genetic surname, only part you can't change by mixing.

[Ford]

ydna is your genetic surname, only part you can't change by mixing.

My ethnic identity is disconnected from the origin of my haplogroup by several millennia. It has no relevance to me whatsoever in the modern sense.

[Daos777]

My ethnic identity is disconnected from the origin of my haplogroup by several millennia. It has no relevance to me whatsoever in the modern sense.

You’re just saying that because you’re E-V13

[Ford]

You’re just saying that because you’re E-V13

I'm R1b, my good E-V13 nibba.

[Jana]

My ethnic identity is disconnected from the origin of my haplogroup by several millennia. It has no relevance to me whatsoever in the modern sense.

It doesn't change the fact your sons and grandsons will inherit your haplogroup. It's not related to identity, that wasn't my point. But it needs to be respected.

[Jana]

I'm R1b, my good E-V13 nibba.

You are his slave master :D

[Daos777]

You are his slave master :D

Bitch please. E-V13 was assimilated and was an elite haplogroup amongst indo-Europeans. It means E-V13 had dig bick and could fight well. It’s the only Balkan haplo that can be found from Uzbekistan to Iceland.

[Ford]

It doesn't change the fact your sons and grandsons will inherit your haplogroup. It's not related to identity, that wasn't my point. But it needs to be respected.

Its only worth from what I see is that it's only a testament they descend from me, but the haplogroup itself is meaningless to me. I could just as well have been N, I, E or whatever and I would not have gained or lost anything of worth.


You are his slave master :D

:bow00001:

[Jana]

Bitch please. E-V13 was assimilated and was an elite haplogroup amongst indo-Europeans. It means E-V13 had dig bick and could fight well. It’s the only Balkan haplo that can be found from Uzbekistan to Iceland.

I am just joking xD
E-V13 is among my favorite haplogroups. I like N1c, R1a, E-V13, J2a. My both sides are I, my man is I....I find I haplogroup boring.

[Jana]

I don't like the fact my ancestors were not adventure seeking travelers but they are living in Europe for tens of thousands of years already and were in stone age when more advanced intruders showed up :(
I-people are irrelevant as f...k xD. There were no ancient Empires or civilisations built by I-men to my knowledge. Except maybe Viking ''Empire''.

[Alenka]

ydna is your genetic surname, only part you can't change by mixing.
You can, but only if you have a daughter. If she has a child with a R1a man, for example, then your grandson will have that y-DNA haplogroup. I know it won't be directly patrilineal, but they are your descendant nonetheless. They carry your autosomal genes on.

Anyways, y-DNA matters more on the level of frequencies when it comes to populations as a whole, individually not as much. Most people never even find out their haplogroup, but the world still keeps spinning.
:D

[Dick]

My ethnic identity is disconnected from the origin of my haplogroup by several millennia. It has no relevance to me whatsoever in the modern sense.

It does matter in the modern sense. It proves we were not forcibly raped or mixed under ottoman rule. There are still people that think we were

[Jana]

It does matter in the modern sense. It proves we were not forcibly raped or mixed under ottoman rule. There are still people that think we were

Most of the ''Ottomans'' raping women in the Balkans were muslim Balkanites.

[Daos777]

I don't like the fact my ancestors were not adventure seeking travelers but they are living in Europe for tens of thousands of years already and were in stone age when more advanced intruders showed up :(
I-people are irrelevant as f...k xD. There were no ancient Empires or civilisations built by I-men to my knowledge. Except maybe Viking ''Empire''.

Don’t worry because autosmally you’re a Neolithic farmer so you’re good.

[War Chef]

I always thought E-V13 in the Balkans was from Romans. Either way I don't care enough to look into it

[Kamal900]

I don't like the fact my ancestors were not adventure seeking travelers but they are living in Europe for tens of thousands of years already and were in stone age when more advanced intruders showed up :(
I-people are irrelevant as f...k xD. There were no ancient Empires or civilisations built by I-men to my knowledge. Except maybe Viking ''Empire''.

Well, the ones who built the first civilizations in western Eurasia are the E, J and even R1b(Assyrians, Armenians and some Levantines have it) haplogroups. The carriers of I like the paleolithic Europeans built very advanced cultures and settlements in Europe like Stonehenge and etc. The Bell Beaker group, which the Germanic and Celtic peoples derive from, pretty much turned the tables around less than 5,000 years ago. They also had heavily mixed with the neolithic Iberians and other Southern Europeans as well(Greeks don't have such ancestry in them). I belong to the U3 haplogroup which had originated in the middle east in the neolithic period, and spread from there to Europe where I've seen many Thracian samples have it as well(not the same subclade as me, obviously, but sharing a common ancestry with them).

[Jana]

I find this post very interesting. Written by Croat on Eupedia forum (he is I2-dinaric)

Haplogroup Characteristics - R


I know the idea of a relationship between Y-DNA haplogroups and certain physical/personality traits has already been discussed. I still find it unfortunate, that many people are so quick to repeat as fact that all traits are associated with autosomal DNA and anything that disagrees is pseudoscience even though they are the ones with nothing to back up their claims. Rather sad. The Y chromosome clearly contains genes for height, which I see as an obvious explanation for why men with Haplogroup I are usually of above-average stature.

But now I wish to talk about personality- the success of Haplogroup R in particular. Can this be related to personality? Are men with Haplogroup R often just more successful at conquering and expanding? I imagine that in Europe millennia ago, it was most frequently the men with Haplogroup R who would have relationships with multiple women. Perhaps R-men are naturally more adventurous and inclined towards exploration and conquest. Maybe this trait is shared with the 'brother' haplogroup Q, whose members crossed a land-bridge and settled two entire continents, and would dominate them, outcompeting C by far. It seems as though I-men like myself are more committed to our land- more territorial. I also believe that the men who are most likely to be socially dominant or influential will be those with R.

If we look at a list of US presidents by Y-DNA the vast majority are R (specifically R1b), quite disproportionate to the population. This is especially true of European kings as well.

http://atlas.xyvy.info/country-natio...tes-of-america

Haplogroup maps of Europe as you all know are all over Eupedia, as are lists of European male royalty and US presidents by Y-DNA haplogroups.

But this is not to suggest that R-men are better leaders (I would never!). In many cases, we are although I won't get into I personality traits yet. Their aggressiveness and passion seems to propel them further.

His description of I men describe my male family members perfecty. They are withdrawn, territorial and very defensive, who don't like exploring unknown. Also sensitive and don't show their feelings.


I am now 191cm.

I was just saying we make better leaders because our leadership style seems under appreciated because it's less common–I didn't mean what I said LOL (i.e. insinuating that we are better-performing). I think that Hg I men tend to be less likely to act on emotion, than R. I do believe that we feel very strong emotions that we keep to ourselves, as we are more 'introverted'. I would say we are highly sensitive.

Also I really appreciate that bit about your family because that kind of expansionism is exactly what I associate with R. It's interesting to note that with the Vikings, though they were mostly I1, the upper classes seemed to be more of both R (R1a and R1b). What is your perception of R-traits?

[War Chef]

Don’t worry because autosmally you’re a Neolithic farmer so you’re good.

All Neolithic farmers in Europe belonged to G2a, before Yamnaya changed that :(

We got cucked by chads on horses

[Dick]

Most of the ''Ottomans'' raping women in the Balkans were muslim Balkanites.

I’m sure there was raping. Like they say, everyone has a rapist in their family. My point is that supposed rapes by Turks has been blown out of proportion for centuries and it’s been disproven

[Jana]

I’m sure there was raping. Like they say, everyone has a rapist in their family. My pint is that supposed rapes by Turks is blown out of proportion for centuries and it’s been disproven

Thing is that there were very few ethnic Turks in the Balkans, specially western, so they couldn't leave any genetics. Turks in Bosnia were just local Slavs xD

[Ford]

It does matter in the modern sense. It proves we were not forcibly raped or mixed under ottoman rule. There are still people that think we were

Yes, true in a sense. But it wouldn't have made any impact on my modern ethnic affiliation.

[War Chef]

I’m sure there was raping. Like they say, everyone has a rapist in their family. My point is that supposed rapes by Turks has been blown out of proportion for centuries and it’s been disproven

I'd really like to know the statistics on rape. Some morally corrupt men (maybe 20% of population) has potential to rape, especially if there is no law enforcement to keep them in check.
I hope there wasn't too much rape in the middle-ages and beyond, but it's hard to say.

[Daos777]

I always thought E-V13 in the Balkans was from Romans. Either way I don't care enough to look into it

Nah E-V13 has been in Southern Europe since the Mesolithic. They were basically a bunch of retard North African fisherman who got lost and ended up in Europe.

[MiloshN]

I "hate" my y-DNA, just because of the Albanians. As soon as you are not Slav by haplogroup, you are immediately tied to them. My ancestor may have been illyrian, but an Albanian, I do not believe.

[Daos777]

All Neolithic farmers in Europe belonged to G2a, before Yamnaya changed that :(

We got cucked by chads on horses

I mean everyone in Europe was cucked by Yamnaya so it’s nothing to feel about about.

[Dick]

I'd really like to know the statistics on rape. Some morally corrupt men (maybe 20% of population) has potential to rape, especially if there is no law enforcement to keep them in check.
I hope there wasn't too much rape in the middle-ages and beyond, but it's hard to say.

There were probably more NPE’s than rapes

[War Chef]

Nah E-V13 has been in Southern Europe since the Mesolithic. They were basically a bunch of retard North African fisherman who got lost and ended up in Europe.

They could've been early Phoenicians (modern Lebanese) who settled in Europe before history could record them.

[Ford]

I find this post very interesting. Written by Croat on Eupedia forum (he is I2-dinaric)

Haplogroup Characteristics - R



His description of I men describe my male family members perfecty. They are withdrawn, territorial and very defensive, who don't like exploring unknown. Also sensitive and don't show their feelings.

lol actually accurate, but I'm sure it's just a coincidence ;)

[Daos777]

I "hate" my y-DNA, just because of the Albanians. As soon as you are not Slav by haplogroup, you are immediately tied to them. My ancestor may have been Ilir, but an Albanian, I do not believe.

Dude just change your name to Rahid and say you’re Albanian life will make more sense.

[Daos777]

They could've been early Phoenicians (modern Lebanese) who settled in Europe before history could record them.

Phoenicians weren’t E-M78 they were the later Natufian Branch. No ancient sample of E-M78 has ever been found outside of North Africa and Europe. That probably means direct migration from North Africa into Europe. But more samples are needed.

[Dick]

lol actually accurate, but I'm sure it's just a coincidence ;)

That’s just dinaric mentality

[Crn Volk]

I "hate" my y-DNA, just because of the Albanians. As soon as you are not Slav by haplogroup, you are immediately tied to them. My ancestor may have been illyrian, but an Albanian, I do not believe.

Could be Vlach too

[War Chef]

There were probably more NPE’s than rapes

Non paternity event?

I think the likelihood of a woman sleeping around at that time was very low. It's even low now (well I mean women don't like empty/casual sex with no emotion connection) but especially that time, where she was at the mercy of a man's physical strength to provide food and protection. She won't risk losing that for 5 minutes of pleasure.

Modern times w/ contraceptives and financial security, it's a bit different.

[MiloshN]

Dude just change your name to Rahid and say you’re Albanian life will make more sense.

Nope, convert to Milësh Kopiliq

[MiloshN]

Could be Vlach too

ya, maybe

[Dick]

Non paternity event?

I think the likelihood of a woman sleeping around at that time was very low. It's even low now (well I mean women don't like empty/casual sex with no emotion connection) but especially that time, where she was at the mercy of a man's physical strength to provide food and protection. She won't risk losing that for 5 minutes of pleasure.

Modern times w/ contraceptives and financial security, it's a bit different.

Agree to disagree

[MustafaTekin]

Hitler and Napoleon had no charisma? R1b is a boring haplogroup.

There are exceptions. I admire napoleon.

[Daos777]

There are exceptions. I admire napoleon.

But Napoleon got his cheeks busted in Russia and he was 5 foot 6 short little nigga.

[pulstar]

Weren't Wright brothers also part of this group?

[MustafaTekin]

But Napoleon got his cheeks busted in Russia and he was 5 foot 6 short little nigga.

Russia can't be conquered from the west. you need to attack from south..

[Daos777]

Russia can't be conquered from the west. you need to attack from south..

I’m just saying there are better E-V13 role models. Michael Jordan was E-V13


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[Mingle]

I find this post very interesting. Written by Croat on Eupedia forum (he is I2-dinaric)

Haplogroup Characteristics - R



His description of I men describe my male family members perfecty. They are withdrawn, territorial and very defensive, who don't like exploring unknown. Also sensitive and don't show their feelings.He sounds like the type of person that believes astrology is a real science as well.

[Slavic Italian]

Russia can't be conquered from the west. you need to attack from south..

The west has the least amount of natural barriers.

[Corded]

deleted

[Pubiczar]

Hitler and Napoleon had no charisma? R1b is a boring haplogroup.

Turks hate E haplogroup for some reason .. :D

[Pubiczar]

Weren't Wright brothers also part of this group?

Wright brothers and their descendants are my matches on 12 and 25 markers.,
Although they are on a different subclade S7461 than me, with TMRCA BY3880 with me currently estimated at 4400 ybp.

[MiloshN]

I’m just saying there are better E-V13 role models. Michael Jordan was E-V13


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Wut?

[Voskos]

Some of the many subclades might be slavic or at least central european neolithic imo. I remember a Russian member who was E-V13.

[Pubiczar]

Some of the many subclades might be slavic or at least central european neolithic imo. I remember a Russian member who was E-V13.

Most of those Russians have subclades with TMRCA older than the Slavic expansion and have various non Slavic matches. Probably various E-V13 clades were already in Russia since Russia is a big country and probably part of the Scythians as there are also many Ossetians, Tatars and other non Slavic people who have plenty of E-V13

[Pubiczar]

As for E-V13, it's futile to talk about it when 90% of all E-V13 belong to E-CTS5856, a subclade downstream of E-V13.
And even more, more than 70% of all CTS5856 belong to a subclade further downstream known as BY3880: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY3880/

And this subclade with TMRCA 4400 ybp is most diverse among the Bulgarians and the Macedonians. Although the Albanians in sheer numbers percentage wise are ahead of all others, their subclades are a lot younger and don't show such diversity as the Bulgarian and Macedonian do.
Therefore, the vast majority of the Bulgarian and Macedonian BY3880, were already in the Balkans since the BA and this particular subclade can be traced to various BA people like the Pelasgians who were assumed to be ancestors of the Thracians, Paeonians and Macedonians.

[Iron.]

As for E-V13, it's futile to talk about it when 90% of all E-V13 belong to E-CTS5856, a subclade downstream of E-V13.
And even more, more than 70% of all CTS5856 belong to a subclade further downstream known as BY3880: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY3880/

And this subclade with TMRCA 4400 ybp is most diverse among the Bulgarians and the Macedonians. Although the Albanians in sheer numbers percentage wise are ahead of all others, their subclades are a lot younger and don't show such diversity as the Bulgarian and Macedonian do.
Therefore, the vast majority of the Bulgarian and Macedonian BY3880, were already in the Balkans since the BA and this particular subclade can be traced to various BA people like the Pelasgians who were assumed to be ancestors of the Thracians, Paeonians and Macedonians.


1. Many of the Albanian EV-13 subclades are actually pretty old based on the link you posted, some of them in that link formed like 3000-4000 years ago.

You see almost no Macedonians in that list compared to Albanians and most of the Native Balkan haplogroups in Macedonians seem to also be shared with Bulgarians which shows an East Balkan origin in Macedonians and an origin from Bulgaria.

2. The EV-13 that are young in Albanians have just formed their own sister/brother clades or subclades from much older Ancient Balkan clades. Therefore the age of a subclade in this case is also irrelevant especially when taking into consideration that Albanians are actually a much older Balkan population in the Balkans than Macedonians or Bulgarians.

You also see many South Slavic subclades there are younger than any Albanian some only forming 500 years ago. Actually Albanian clades in general aren't any younger. The South Slavic ones over all are actually younger making your conclusion pretty superstitious

So clearly majority of EV-13 in Albanians, regardless of how young or old these subclades are, are ancient Balkan. The age is even irrelevant when it could of easily just branched off from an older clade which it obviously did. Same thing for the Slavic ones anyway.


As for diversity, I don't think you even understand what that word means yet use it. There is little diversity in Balkan Slavs as two of their major Y-DNA are Slavic and branched off 1500 years ago with very little diversity.

[Pubiczar]

1. Many of the Albanian EV-13 subclades are actually pretty old based on the link you posted, some of them in that link formed like 3000-4000 years ago.

You see almost no Macedonians in that list compared to Albanians and most of the Native Balkan haplogroups in Macedonians seem to also be shared with Bulgarians which shows an East Balkan origin in Macedonians and an origin from Bulgaria.

2. The EV-13 that are young in Albanians have just formed their own sister/brother clades or subclades from much older Ancient Balkan clades. Therefore the age of a subclade in this case is also irrelevant especially when taking into consideration that Albanians are actually a much older Balkan population in the Balkans than Macedonians or Bulgarians.

You also see many South Slavic subclades there are younger than any Albanian some only forming 500 years ago. Actually Albanian clades in general aren't any younger. The South Slavic ones over all are actually younger making your conclusion pretty superstitious

So clearly majority of EV-13 in Albanians, regardless of how young or old these subclades are, are ancient Balkan. The age is even irrelevant when it could of easily just branched off from an older clade which it obviously did. Same thing for the Slavic ones anyway.


As for diversity, I don't think you even understand what that word means yet use it. There is little diversity in Balkan Slavs as two of their major Y-DNA are Slavic and branched off 1500 years ago with very little diversity.

No need to be so defensive, I didn't attack no one. But nevertheless, I already understand you are Albanian and what the reason for your position is, however I never said that the Albanian clades are not ancient Balkan but was only underlining the Bulgarian and Macedonian diversity. While the Albanians do show diversity in some other haplogroups like J-M241 and R-PF7563, their diversity when it comes to R-Z2103 and E-BY3880 is not on the level of Bulgarians and Macedonians.

When you say Balkan Slavs this and that, you put all Balkan Slavophone people in the same basket. I was speaking strictly about Bulgarians and Macedonians who form their own specific ethnic, linguistic and genetic cluster and I have no intention talking about Serbs or other Slavophone people from the Balkan who unlike Bulgarians and Macedonians indeed do have a lot younger subclades than later ones.

Then you seem to jump from one subject to another and speak about a Slavic haplogroup of I-Y3120 and it's little diversity when I didn't even had in mind this but was strictly speaking about E-BY3880.

And while at that, you can see on the YFULL tree, there are two Bulgarians on BY3880 level, one from Pleven and one with origin from Kukus/Kilkis in Greece. There is also a BY3880* Macedonian with BIG Y but he is not on the YFULL tree.
Then, Bulgarians and Macedonians are represented on all major and oldest subclades downstream of BY3880:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y16729/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC44169/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5017/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5018/

This diversity under BY3880 is not seen among the Albanians whichever way you look at it and not only that but in many cases they clearly show Eastern Balkan Thracian connection such as:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC33614/
Or Dacian such as:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z17107/
Some E-BY3880 subclades among Albanians do show Illyrian connection and these are usually shared with Serbs and other South-West Slavophone people: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z19851a/

Nevertheless the biggest diversity downstream of BY3880 is clearly on the side of the Bulgarians and Macedonians who are represented on all major and oldest subclades unlike the Albanians who seem to belong on more Western subclades downstream of BY3880 such as:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5017/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5018/

[Bosniensis]

Haplogroup means nothing.

You are that what you represent.

-religion
-culture
-politics

etc..

Just like people saying to Bosniaks "you are serbs or slavs" even if technically we have no relations to orthodox or slavic world whatsoever.

Don't be bothered with EV13 it's Balkan haplogroup that's the only thing that matters in your case.

If you were C then it would be a reason for alarm.

[Leto]

Just like people saying to Bosniaks "you are serbs or slavs" even if technically we have no relations to orthodox or slavic world whatsoever.

What is Slavic to you? I notice on TA some people have a very narrow and stereotypical understanding of Slavicness. Like unless you plot somewhere close to ethnic Russians and unless you have a "Baltic" look with a round "Ivan" face, blue eyes, golden hair, you aren't really a Slav. And this belief is held even by a few Slavic speakers, not only by non-Slavs. That's quite simplistic or maybe simply wrong. What about Russian, Ukrainians, Poles, Slovaks who do NOT look like that? What if they aren't R1a or I2 or whatever Y DNA is associated with Slavs?

Bosniaks score more Northeast European than Orthodox Serbs by the way and light features aren't uncommon among them either.
Edin Džeko
https://as00.epimg.net/img/comunes/fotos/fichas/deportistas/d/dze/large/18151.png

[Bosniensis]

What is Slavic to you? I notice on TA some people have a very narrow and stereotypical understanding of Slavicness. Like unless you plot somewhere close to ethnic Russians and unless you have a "Baltic" look with a round "Ivan" face, blue eyes, golden hair, you aren't really a Slav. And this belief is held even by a few Slavic speakers, not only by non-Slavs. That's quite simplistic or maybe simply wrong. What about Russian, Ukrainians, Poles, Slovaks who do NOT look like that? What if they aren't R1a or I2 or whatever Y DNA is associated with Slavs?

Bosniaks score more Northeast European than Orthodox Serbs by the way and light features aren't uncommon among them either.
Edin Džeko
https://as00.epimg.net/img/comunes/fotos/fichas/deportistas/d/dze/large/18151.png

That's very rare phenotype among Bosniaks

Here are major Bosniak politicians:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/bs/6/6a/Fadil_Novalic_premijer_fbih.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/P0R76HzZApSHj-16cFCvH84GcL8Aj6qaxXnBtgrguPAYeFYsJ1Tfi6bqnrH9dDE0 4oY3SwUm2hwzypfg_8IUws93HPygbHhfG9nhWr60RCjiwUP3iF VZzs5u4uowGwjp2tA7TVbcanoELF75nQOT

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/twZiSEMPvz50M3GQ413RV0qc1YOr9KDGbaTCWahHy-Hr4jISbF1Pe4ar9OoHDNGR-2TISoSbOgESE60w6RMiwejvEHZvmyf1JYqtqigurJQJSZ6NA4p 3cLSFBsCKCgkUtEhpeaQ

https://vijesti.ba/fajlovi/news/muamer-zukorlic-za-vijesti-ba-prihvaticu-kandidaturu-za-reisa-zukorlic_5d74d9760883f.jpg?size=lg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/eDBhbHf2amAQDm--wq17TmYQoEw1FufE1l1QPGnwA2OvTat3vfAHTZquMe1vmo8fBr OZbtQ2AU7uSkOpSxT3GW8ep9mL9vSNJ8_Tnk0HluF_e13-rI8prDfNND_IzFWqxX0

https://storage.bljesak.info/image/333194/1280x880/ASIM-SARAJLIC.jpg

[Leto]

That's very rare phenotype among Bosniaks

Here are major Bosniak politicians:

Doesn't matter. Most of those men are probably over 30% Baltic (if that's a valid indicator at all), unless they have Albanian or Turkish ancestry.

[Bosniensis]

Doesn't matter. Most of those men are probably over 30% Baltic (if that's a valid indicator at all), unless they have Albanian or Turkish ancestry.

Yes 30% Baltic and 40% mediterranean+w.asian (15. w.med 15. e.med + 8-9% w.asian)

How much total Med do Lithuanians get? Nothing.

We mixed with Slavs and that's a fair conclusion.

[Leto]

Yes 30% Baltic and 40% mediterranean+w.asian (15. w.med 15. e.med + 8-9% w.asian)

How much total Med do Lithuanians get? Nothing.

We mixed with Slavs and that's a fair conclusion.
Lol. What about North Atlantic?
You literally get roughly half Greek half Ukrainian, nobody denies that. Point is to be Slavic you don't need to be or look like a Lithuanian, they aren't even Slavs to begin with. Does one need to be Danish to be Germanic?

[Leto]

Bosniensis is confused because he is a Bosnian Muslim and doesn't want to drop that identity. Even his close neighbors and racial cousins are different culturally and don't want to have anything to do with him xD

[Bosniensis]

Bosniensis is confused because he is a Bosnian Muslim and doesn't want to drop that identity. Even his close neighbors and racial cousins are different culturally and don't want to have anything to do with him xD

with me?

Beg your pardon.

We are a nation of 2.5 mil and we have 4 mil people in Turkey.

"Bosniensis is confused"

Our neighbors are confused who try to mock us for not being like them, as if we want to be like them.

[Leto]

with me?

Beg your pardon.

We are a nation of 2.5 mil and we have 4 mil people in Turkey.

"Bosniensis is confused"

Our neighbors are confused who try to mock us for not being like them, as if we want to be like them.
Well, you guys aren't seen as part of European Christendom. Serbs and Croats consider you Ottoman sellouts.
Who cares about Turkey, in Turkey they are basically Turks already.

[Bosniensis]

Well, you guys aren't seen as part of European Christendom. Serbs and Croats consider you Ottoman sellouts.

The only sellouts are Serbs who butchered majority of Serbian population with Russian invasion during Balkan Wars.

All Serbian cities were Muslim cities and got repopulated by unknown Serbian and foreign highlanders in 18th century.

Russia invented modern Serbia which is why they are so Russophilic.

We are Ottomans and converts like most of Anatolians are.

Opinion of Serbs about us is of so little value it's funny to talk about it, it's them who should be ashamed for butchering their own people.

Our religion is that of Constantinople, we don't care about Western Europe or Eastern Europe, we were never part of it, and we will never be part of it.

[Leto]

Our religion is that of Constantinople, we don't care about Western Europe or Eastern Europe, we were never part of it, and we will never be part of it.
The religion of Constantinople was Orthodox Christianity. You are just an Ottomanized Balkan Slav whose ancestors would have been Christian just 500 years ago and who Larps as both Greco-Roman and Ottoman which are two opposite things.

[Bosniensis]

The religion of Constantinople was Orthodox Christianity. You are just an Ottomanized Balkan Slav whose ancestors would have been Christian just 500 years ago and who Larps as both Greco-Roman and Ottoman which are two opposite things.

Religion of Constantinople is Islam.

You are uneducated about many things.

15% of Orthodoxes remained Orthodoxes in Anatolia and Balkans.

Whole Orthodox world became Muslim and we followed. Whole Patriarchate and Priesthood converted.

Don't lecture me please.

I know those things better than anyone here.

If it wasn't for Russia, Orthodox Religion would be long time dead like Hellenic paganism.

Your pathetic attempts to insult only reveal how little you know about Anatolia and Balkans.

Ottomans spoke Greek language more than Orthodoxes.

[Roy]

Yes 30% Baltic and 40% mediterranean+w.asian (15. w.med 15. e.med + 8-9% w.asian)

How much total Med do Lithuanians get? Nothing.

We mixed with Slavs and that's a fair conclusion.

And what do Lithuanians have in common with this discussion?

[Coastal Elite]

But anyways. It is proven in my example. Despite being mostly Slav autosomally I still in my mind want to be riding camels through the Sahara desert and wearing blue turbans

and I can't get enough of the hookah lounge, the power of E-V13

[Coastal Elite]

https://i.imgur.com/MjCMiZ7.jpg

[sailormoon]

The Albanians' dominant haplogroup is E-V13, which is historically associated with the Illyrians. E-V13 is also high amongst Albanians in North Macedonia (34%) and Albanians in Albania (24%). It is found at low to moderate frequencies in most Slavic populations. E-V13 may have spread to Britain with the Roman Army that was composed of men of Balkan ancestry, including Thracians, Illyrians and Dacians (Bird 2007).



Haplogroups in the modern Albanian population is dominated by E-V13, the most common European sub-clade of E1b1b1a (E-M78).[3] E-M78 most likely originated in northeastern Africa, while its subclade E-V13 originated in western Asia, and first expanded into Europe some 5300 years ago.[3] The current distribution of this lineage might be the result of several demographic expansions from the Balkans, such as that associated with the Balkan Bronze Age, and more recently, during the Roman era with the so-called "rise of Illyrican soldiery".[133][134][135][136][137] The peak of the haplogroup in Kosovo, however, has been attributed to genetic drift.[134]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

Abstract

The invasion of Britain by the Roman military in CE 43, and the subsequent occupation of Britain for nearly four centuries, brought thousands of soldiers from the Balkan peninsula to Britain as part of auxiliary units and as regular legionnaires. The presence of Haplogroup E3b1a-M78 among the male populations of present-day Wales, England and Scotland, and its nearly complete absence among the modern male population of Ireland, provide a potential genetic indicator of settlement during the 1st through 4th Centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula and their male Romano-British descendants. Haplotype data from several major genetic surveys of Britain and Ireland are examined, analyzed and correlated with historical, epigraphic and archaeological information, with the goal of identifying any significant phylogeographic associations between E3b1a-M78 and those known Romano-British settlements and military posts that were associated specifically with Roman soldiers of Balkan origin. Studies by Cruciani et al. (2007), Perečić et al. (2005), and Marjanovic et al. (2005), examining the distribution of E3b1a-M78 and E3b1a2-V13 in the Balkans, are analyzed further to provide evidence of phylogeographic associations between the E3b1a2 haplotypes identified within the Balkans by these studies and those regions of the Balkans occupied first by the Roman army in antiquity. E3b1a2 is found to be at its highest frequency worldwide in the geographic region corresponding closely to the ancient Roman province of Moesia Superior, a region that today encompasses Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia and extreme northwestern Bulgaria. The Balkan studies also provide evidence to support the use of E3b1a-M78 (in the present study) as a close proxy for the presence of E3b1a2-V13 (representing 85% of the parent E3b1a-M78 clade) in both the Balkans and in Britain.
http://www.jogg.info/pages/32/bird.htm

[Hulu]

The Albanians' dominant haplogroup is E-V13, which is historically associated with the Illyrians. E-V13 may have spread to Britain with the Roman Army that was composed of men of Balkan ancestry, including Thracians, Illyrians and Dacians (Bird 2007). E-V13 is also high amongst Albanians in North Macedonia (34%) and Albanians in Albania (24%). It is found at low to moderate frequencies in most Slavic populations.

All the old clades of EV13 found in North Europe and Britain are at least 3000 years old.

[TheMaestro]

Nope, convert to Milësh Kopiliq

You are not a Kopil or are you? XD

[TheMaestro]

I’m just saying there are better E-V13 role models. Michael Jordan was E-V13


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No way XDDDD Where did you get this from, hopefully the best Basketball player in human history.

[MiloshN]

You are not a Kopil or are you? XD

ahahaha nope, i know who is my father xD

[Chris596]

I'm also E-V13, one thing's for sure it comes from Southeast Europe or the Balkans in general. My theory is that most people who have this haplogroup, they had one ancestor who was at least genetically ,,Greek'' or like a Greek. I'm very close to all South Slavs genetically.

It's one of the most common haplogroups among South Slavs so all I know is that I definitely had South Slavic ancestors (Thracians, Illyrians, etc you name it). I actually get decent amounts of Greek sometimes on G25, my father gets even more.

My recent ancestry map from ADNTRO (pretty accurate if you ask me, but no Hungary which is a surprise):

https://i.imgur.com/47cQxj0.png

[Benyzero]

I'm also E-V13, one thing's for sure it comes from Southeast Europe or the Balkans in general. My theory is that most people who have this haplogroup, they had one ancestor who was at least genetically ,,Greek'' or like a Greek. I'm very close to all South Slavs genetically.

It's one of the most common haplogroups among South Slavs so all I know is that I definitely had South Slavic ancestors (Thracians, Illyrians, etc you name it). I actually get decent amounts of Greek sometimes on G25, my father gets even more.

My recent ancestry map from ADNTRO (pretty accurate if you ask me, but no Hungary which is a surprise):

https://i.imgur.com/47cQxj0.png

But you arent 100% greek like me

[Caballero]

The problem is that the oldest E-V13 subclades are found around the triangle of Italy - Germany - Poland. And the Balkans have more percentages but younger subclades. That means, a Bronze Age culture from those regions had a massive migration in the Balkans during EBA/MBA/LBA.

We don't know the details so far.

[Rocinante]

I am not really sure if it has to be linked with slavs, i think R-Z283 is the ¨born¨ and expansion of the slav culture, though i am not an expert in R1a and E1b, i have to say. In my knowledge, E-V13 is the representation of the most illyrian paternal line it exist, the curious thing is that the illyrians, who were indo-european, carried this haplogroup in a massive way, could someone explain me why? I thought all predominant indo-european peoples like celts or slavs were R1b and R1a, so is curious. Also we could mention something else, that baltics and anatolians were indo-european and they have N1 and J2.

[Benyzero]

No way XDDDD Where did you get this from, hopefully the best Basketball player in human history.

https://i.imgur.com/uxrMz6i.jpg

[Caballero]

I am not really sure if it has to be linked with slavs, i think R-Z283 is the ¨born¨ and expansion of the slav culture, though i am not an expert in R1a and E1b, i have to say. In my knowledge, E-V13 is the representation of the most illyrian paternal line it exist, the curious thing is that the illyrians, who were indo-european, carried this haplogroup in a massive way, could someone explain me why? I thought all predominant indo-european peoples like celts or slavs were R1b and R1a, so is curious. Also we could mention something else, that baltics and anatolians were indo-european and they have N1 and J2.

The picture is more complicated than you think. Iberians probably had a lot of R1b, yet they spoke a non IE language, same with Basques. I don't buy that they adopted that language. Rather Iberian, Aquitanian and various IE languages was a language spoken by various R1b clades.

Regarding Illyrians, Albanians have quite a lot of R1b, depending on regions it's around 20-25%, not like Western Europeans but that's enough to track the original lineage of Proto-Illyrians. Just as Armenians carry around 25% R1b and they speak an Indo-European language.

[TheMaestro]

https://i.imgur.com/uxrMz6i.jpg

XDDDDD EZ choice - Montenibber.

[Rocinante]

The picture is more complicated than you think. Iberians probably had a lot of R1b, yet they spoke a non IE language, same with Basques. I don't buy that they adopted that language. Rather Iberian, Aquitanian IE was a language spoken by various R1b clades.

Pre-Indo-European iberians had R1b? I really don´t think so, and it is what the ancient samples says. The arrival of R1b in Iberia is when the indo-european related peoples like Bell Beakers and Urnfield came, not before, it is actually quite impossible. There might be old remnants of the Villabruna Cluster (which i think is not the case of Spain and Portugal), but this R1b is likely V88 and not R1b1a2, which is the one that left the steppe. To me, is almost 100% for sure that the presence of R1b1a2 is by the western steppe herders, spreading indo-european languages and culture.

By the way, your theory of E-V13, is linked with Pre-Pottery Neolithic?

[Caballero]

Pre-Indo-European iberians had R1b? I really don´t think so, and it is what the ancient samples says. The arrival of R1b in Iberia is when the indo-european related peoples like Bell Beakers and Urnfield came, not before, it is actually quite impossible. There might be old remnants of the Villabruna Cluster (which i think is not the case of Spain and Portugal), but this R1b is likely V88 and not R1b1a2, which is the one that left the steppe. To me, is almost 100% for sure that the presence of R1b1a2 is by the western steppe herders, spreading indo-european languages and culture.

By the way, your theory of E-V13, is linked with Pre-Pottery Neolithic?

Ok, and who were those Indo-European speaking people before Romans? I don't know if any existed. Ancient Iberians dominated the peninunsula when they started to get in contact with Romans. Or you are thinking most of modern Iberian paternal lineages is from Celtic tribes?

Regarding E-V13, i mean it's parent E-L618 there is a possibility that they were present among PPNB along with the ancestor of Ancient Egyptian E-V22. E-L618 migrated north, E-V22 migration was concentrated more south, eventually toward it's original homeland Egypt. Who knows.

[Jana]

This thread is senseless because there are no unified Slav people. They are very different in every way we can imagine more or less.
You are Slavic and that's it. There are other Slavs very different to you and that's OK.

[Jana]

He sounds like the type of person that believes astrology is a real science as well.

I am such type of person. You probably have influence of sceptical signs in your natal chart. :o

[Vojnik]

You are from Kosovo. Slavic land.

[Rocinante]

Ok, and who were those Indo-European speaking people before Romans? I don't know if any existed. Ancient Iberians dominated the peninunsula when they started to get in contact with Romans. Or you are thinking most of modern Iberian paternal lineages is from Celtic tribes?

Regarding E-V13, i mean it's parent E-L618 there is a possibility that they were present among PPNB along with the ancestor of Ancient Egyptian E-V22. E-L618 migrated north, E-V22 migration was concentrated more south, eventually toward it's original homeland Egypt. Who knows.

R1b1a2 of iberians are from bell beakers and maybe from urnfield, yes, how not? Look at a map of the ancient samples found till the arrival of Chalcolithic:

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/iberia-y-dna-map-chalcolithic.png

All WHG and Anatolia Neolithic, in other words, EEF, no indo-european/BB/Urnfield/celtic yet. In my understanding, all R1b1a2 spreaded in West Europe was by Beakers and Urnfields, and celtic culture was born after that expansion, meaning that the celts, in theory, is just a terminology just to define all the western european cultures in the Bronze Age.

By the way, a cousin of yours near Madrid, in that map you can see :lol:

[Ion Basescul]

Ahem

https://indo-european.eu/2019/04/common-slavs-from-the-lower-danube-expanding-with-haplogroup-e1b-v13/

[Jana]

Ahem

https://indo-european.eu/2019/04/common-slavs-from-the-lower-danube-expanding-with-haplogroup-e1b-v13/

That blog is sensles, trying to prove R1a is Uralic. E-V13 expanding with Slavs to Balkans doesn't make any sense.

[Caballero]

R1b1a2 of iberians are from bell beakers and maybe from urnfield, yes, how not? Look at a map of the ancient samples found till the arrival of Chalcolithic:

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/iberia-y-dna-map-chalcolithic.png

All WHG and Anatolia Neolithic, in other words, EEF, no indo-european/BB/Urnfield/celtic yet. In my understanding, all R1b1a2 spreaded in West Europe was by Beakers and Urnfields, and celtic culture was born after that expansion, meaning that the celts, in theory, is just a terminology just to define all the western european cultures in the Bronze Age.

By the way, a cousin of yours near Madrid, in that map you can see :lol:

But those samples are from different timelines, Early Neolithic mostly.

I am talking about classical history, 6 century B.C onwards. Those Iberians were probably mostly R1b and yet didn't speak an IE language.

[Mingle]

I am such type of person. You probably have influence of sceptical signs in your natal chart. :oOut of curiosity, do you see any influence from my sign (Leo) in my personality?

[Jana]

Out of curiosity, do you see any influence from my sign (Leo) in my personality?

I would not guess you a Leo. I see strong influence of analytic and detail oriented sign like Virgo, which is first sign after Leo so it's possible some planets like mercury or venus etc you have there, which is common occurence.
My point is sun sign doesn't need to tell a lot about person. You can be Leo but have for example strong Scorpio influence (moon sign, ASC, 8th house accented) and act much more like later.

Most people are mix of various influences. My religion prohibits astrology and I'm aware of that, but my natal chart and especially planetary aspects are too accurate in my character description for me to ignore or think of as coincidence. I've read probably most serious book on this topic there is.

If you ever have interest in natal chart, send me your date and time of birth and I may take a look.

[-Scar-]

Equal of course. Majority of Slavs today are Slavicized something

Slavs probably replaced the bulk of the population in Thrace and Macedonia if they were Croat-like genetically by the time they arrived in South Balkans (which is probable).
https://i.imgur.com/fmWairE.png
https://i.imgur.com/2KyKswQ.png
.... So not just Thracian + some Slav for Bulgarians.

[Jana]

Slavs probably replaced the bulk of the population in Thrace and Macedonia if they were Croat-like genetically by the time they arrived in South Balkans (which is probable).

It isn't. I'm quite sure Slavs who came to southern Balkans were Ukrainian like and not different from early Slavs and not Croat like.
Croats became like modern Croats centuries after settling the Balkans in my opinion too. Assimilation of Vlach population was long and slow process which most likely wasn't completed until after Ottoman Era.

[-Scar-]

It isn't. I'm quite sure Slavs who came to southern Balkans were Ukrainian like and not different from early Slavs and not Croat like.
Croats became like modern Croats centuries after settling the Balkans in my opinion too. Assimilation of Vlach population was long and slow process which most likely wasn't completed until after Ottoman Era.
I also believe they were like those Early Pagan (I used to believe the opposite) samples that we have but we need actual samples to be sure. We have found E-V13 in a Visigoth as well as in Germanic invaded Italy, so Goths were not exactly Germanic-like either, I recall seeing a source that even some Dacians joined Goths. So there are chances that Slavs by the time they pushed south they were gradually joined by some other people given the nature of the those tribes.

Croats came in contact with a North Italian-like population however we have sample from Bronze Age Moldova and Hungary and they plot like modern Albanians so if a certain Slavic group had say absorbed 20-25% of this population before entering Thrace they might have plotted like Croats or Slovenes, but that's just a hypothesis.

Slavs that occupied Croatia were clearly Ukrainian-like, but it took Slavs much longer to arrive in South than in Croatia. But we need samples, I think they were at least a little bit different than Ukranians.

[Scandal]

Yes, they're slavs. Haplogroups don't matter imo. I'm autosomalist. Why would one identify with very tiny % of his ancestry(which haplogroup is) instead of all of his ancestry?

[Rocinante]

But those samples are from different timelines, Early Neolithic mostly.

I am talking about classical history, 6 century B.C onwards. Those Iberians were probably mostly R1b and yet didn't speak an IE language.

Hmmmm, that would be unlikely for me, but you might know it better than i do.

[Jana]

I also believe they were like those Early Pagan (I used to believe the opposite) samples that we have but we need actual samples to be sure. We have found E-V13 in a Visigoth as well as in Germanic invaded Italy, so Goths were not exactly Germanic-like either, I recall seeing a source that even some Dacians joined Goths. So there are chances that Slavs by the time they pushed south they were gradually joined by some other people given the nature of the those tribes.

Croats came in contact with a North Italian-like population however we have sample from Bronze Age Moldova and Hungary and they plot like modern Albanians so if a certain Slavic group had say absorbed 20-25% of this population before entering Thrace they might have plotted like Croats or Slovenes, but that's just a hypothesis.

Slavs that occupied Croatia were clearly Ukrainian-like, but it took Slavs much longer to arrive in South than in Croatia. But we need samples, I think they were at least a little bit different than Ukranians.

Nice post, this I agree with.

[Jana]

Yes, they're slavs. Haplogroups don't matter imo. I'm autosomalist. Why would one identify with very tiny % of his ancestry instead of all of his ancestry?

Using autosomal DNA slavophone Macedonians, Bulgarians and some northern Russian subgroups have less than 50% early Slavic ancestry. They are still ethnic Slavs in my view, they have large chunk of early Slav admixture and Slavic mother tongue.

[Scandal]

Using autosomal DNA slavophone Macedonians, Bulgarians and some northern Russian subgroups have less than 50% early Slavic ancestry.

I think that makes many north macedonians happy xD

[Leto]

Haplogroups don't matter imo. I'm autosomalist.
That's why you don't put your predicted haplo in the profile? :)

[Scandal]

That's why you don't put your predicted haplo in the profile? :)

Yes and no. I was lazy to put it, but I also don't find it important, but I will add it now.

[Caballero]

I also believe they were like those Early Pagan (I used to believe the opposite) samples that we have but we need actual samples to be sure. We have found E-V13 in a Visigoth as well as in Germanic invaded Italy, so Goths were not exactly Germanic-like either, I recall seeing a source that even some Dacians joined Goths. So there are chances that Slavs by the time they pushed south they were gradually joined by some other people given the nature of the those tribes.

Croats came in contact with a North Italian-like population however we have sample from Bronze Age Moldova and Hungary and they plot like modern Albanians so if a certain Slavic group had say absorbed 20-25% of this population before entering Thrace they might have plotted like Croats or Slovenes, but that's just a hypothesis.

Slavs that occupied Croatia were clearly Ukrainian-like, but it took Slavs much longer to arrive in South than in Croatia. But we need samples, I think they were at least a little bit different than Ukranians.

Those Bronze Age Moldavians don't have any specific connections with modern Albanians, they plot with Greeks as well. Here is the distance on G25.

Distance to: Scythian_MDA

0.03201688 Greek_Thessaly
0.03253205 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03254791 Swiss_Italian
0.03277420 Albanian
0.03496374 Gagauz
0.03544833 Italian_Piedmont
0.03669691 Italian_Tuscany
0.03769310 Bulgarian
0.03863596 Italian_Umbria
0.03959148 Italian_Marche
0.04035102 Greek_Peloponnese
0.04062661 Italian_Veneto
0.04068848 Turkish_Deliorman
0.04078422 Caballero
0.04101997 Italian_Northeast
0.04223547 Italian_Liguria
0.04251849 Romanian
0.04273128 Turkish_Rumeli
0.04325492 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04340328 Italian_Lombardy
0.04340853 Italian_Molise
0.04442831 Italian_Bergamo
0.04468240 Greek_Izmir
0.04520472 Macedonian
0.04585924 Italian_Abruzzo



To be honest this kind of calculators have very simplistic algorithms to make any credible conclusions on the admixture of populations.

Just imagine how the horrible front-end code of vahaduo should be taken as gospel for the admixture percentages of populations.



view-source:https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

[samario]

I would not guess you a Leo. I see strong influence of analytic and detail oriented sign like Virgo, which is first sign after Leo so it's possible some planets like mercury or venus etc you have there, which is common occurence.
My point is sun sign doesn't need to tell a lot about person. You can be Leo but have for example strong Scorpio influence (moon sign, ASC, 8th house accented) and act much more like later.

Most people are mix of various influences. My religion prohibits astrology and I'm aware of that, but my natal chart and especially planetary aspects are too accurate in my character description for me to ignore or think of as coincidence. I've read probably most serious book on this topic there is.

If you ever have interest in natal chart, send me your date and time of birth and I may take a look.

How about me. I'm a Pisces sun, Aries moon.

[Ranger0075]

Why anthrotards care so much about ydna? Most new world blacks and mestizos must be R1b

[Mingle]

I would not guess you a Leo. I see strong influence of analytic and detail oriented sign like Virgo, which is first sign after Leo so it's possible some planets like mercury or venus etc you have there, which is common occurence.
My point is sun sign doesn't need to tell a lot about person. You can be Leo but have for example strong Scorpio influence (moon sign, ASC, 8th house accented) and act much more like later.

Most people are mix of various influences. My religion prohibits astrology and I'm aware of that, but my natal chart and especially planetary aspects are too accurate in my character description for me to ignore or think of as coincidence. I've read probably most serious book on this topic there is.

If you ever have interest in natal chart, send me your date and time of birth and I may take a look.

If you need to know one's DOB and time to give them an accurate reading, doesn't that make the whole thing about being Leo, Virgo, etc. pretty useless?

In my opinion, most of the descriptions are very general and apply to most people. I could just write up a set of characteristics that are super common (e.g. shy until you get to know people, having trouble staying motivated, overthinks a lot, etc.) and give it a specific date (like January 18). Then the person who was born on that day will think I'm an astrologist. You can watch James Randi debunking astrologists if you're interested. He basically has them pass a test to prove astrology is real and all of them fail.

But anyways, I don't have an issue with people that believe in it. It just looks like harmless fun. So I'm just curious what my reading says for the sake of it. [emoji14] I was born on July 28, 1996 at around 3:15 AM. I'm not 100% sure if it was exactly 3:15, maybe it's off by 2 minutes, but I don't think it would change the reading. If it does, oh well.

[Jana]

If you need to know one's DOB and time to give them an accurate reading, doesn't that make the whole thing about being Leo, Virgo, etc. pretty useless?

In my opinion, most of the descriptions are very general and apply to most people. I could just write up a set of characteristics that are super common (e.g. shy until you get to know people, having trouble staying motivated, overthinks a lot, etc.) and give it a specific date (like January 18). Then the person who was born on that day will think I'm an astrologist. You can watch James Randi debunking astrologists if you're interested. He basically has them pass a test to prove astrology is real and all of them fail.

But anyways, I don't have an issue with people that believe in it. It just looks like harmless fun. So I'm just curious what my reading says for the sake of it. [emoji14] I was born on July 28, 1996 at around 3:15 AM. I'm not 100% sure if it was exactly 3:15, maybe it's off by 2 minutes, but I don't think it would change the reading. If it does, oh well.

Astrology is not a guessing game. And I don't know you well enough to be able to make educated guess.
I don't take it seriously at all, it's great fun for me but I see some things right in it. I don't bother myself that much with legitimacy of astrology, it's just a fun hobby :)

I'll look in to your birth chart sometime later. Cheers!

[Ülev]

no idea, I am Finno-Permic
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?327570-LOL-at-people-calling-me-Slavic-looking

[pulstar]

If you need to know one's DOB and time to give them an accurate reading, doesn't that make the whole thing about being Leo, Virgo, etc. pretty useless?

In my opinion, most of the descriptions are very general and apply to most people. I could just write up a set of characteristics that are super common (e.g. shy until you get to know people, having trouble staying motivated, overthinks a lot, etc.) and give it a specific date (like January 18). Then the person who was born on that day will think I'm an astrologist. You can watch James Randi debunking astrologists if you're interested. He basically has them pass a test to prove astrology is real and all of them fail.

But anyways, I don't have an issue with people that believe in it. It just looks like harmless fun. So I'm just curious what my reading says for the sake of it. [emoji14] I was born on July 28, 1996 at around 3:15 AM. I'm not 100% sure if it was exactly 3:15, maybe it's off by 2 minutes, but I don't think it would change the reading. If it does, oh well.

All you ever need to know about astrology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbJJ7bg-en0