Roma are NOT majority South Asian. Please stop portraying them as such

[Trouble]

"sample": "Roma_Balkans:Average",
"fit": 1.8209,
"Iranian_Fars": 34.17,
"Chamar": 24.17,
"Italian_Tuscany": 22.5,
"Serbian": 19.17,

"sample": "Roma_Barcelona:Average",
"fit": 2.0099,
"Italian_Tuscany": 58.33,
"Serbian": 21.67,
"Chamar": 11.67,
"Iranian_Fars": 8.33,

"sample": "Roma_Bilbao:Average",
"fit": 1.6768,
"Italian_Tuscany": 43.33,
"Chamar": 21.67,
"Iranian_Fars": 19.17,
"Serbian": 15.83,

"sample": "Roma_Granada:Average",
"fit": 1.9864,
"Italian_Tuscany": 45.83,
"Iranian_Fars": 25.83,
"Chamar": 20.83,
"Serbian": 7.5

"sample": "Roma_Madrid:Average",
"fit": 1.8463,
"Italian_Tuscany": 58.33,
"Iranian_Fars": 17.5,
"Chamar": 15.83,
"Serbian": 8.33,

"sample": "Roma_Porto:Average",
"fit": 1.946,
"Italian_Tuscany": 41.67,
"Iranian_Fars": 22.5,
"Chamar": 20.83,
"Serbian": 15,

[Thambi]

There have been samples that show them as 40-50% south asian but even then it doesnt matter because they are in the current situation cause they have been looked down upon throughout history

[Trouble]

There have been samples that show them as 40-50% south asian but even then it doesnt matter because they are in the current situation cause they have been looked down upon throughout history

Can you post those?

[Thambi]

Can you post those?

Bosnian Gypsy - 48% south asian


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWUphFYpQaQ

Czech Gypsy - 44% south asian


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVGMtBRfNr0

not sure which country - 42%


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7jyJNnG_1M

[Ranger0075]

Man at this point they are already their own people, same as mestizos in LatAm, they have nothing to do with Spain

[Trouble]

Bosnian Gypsy - 48% south asian


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWUphFYpQaQ

Czech Gypsy - 44% south asian


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVGMtBRfNr0

not sure which country - 42%


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7jyJNnG_1M

I have an incredibly low opinion of MyHeritage. They can't even give unmixed populations proper results so I doubt they'd give it to mixed ones.

Gedmatch, 23andme, AncestryDNA, G25 are much preferable.

[tipirneni]

Roma still share huge segments with South Asians. There is also Phenotype matchs

[Duffmannn]

Doesn't exist nothing called "Roma people", Roma is a term that refers to the Roman Empire, the City of Rome and Romania, countries with a latín culture or provenience. The gypsies just stole the term because it's prestigious and to do not be identified as what they are: gypsies.

You are referring to gypsies, the roma people doesn't exist, calle them propertly.

[Leto]

Wait, Iberian Gitanos are only 10-20% Indian? That's pretty low. They look at least 50%.

[Mortimer]

This is because of their identity and origins you learn in school already that they are from India and of Indian origin that's what I learned in elementary school

[Rocinante]

How much EEF+CHG+STEPPE+WHG they have?

[Duffmannn]

Wait, Iberian Gitanos are only 10-20% Indian? That's pretty low. They look at least 50%.

Spanish gypsies are a mix of proper gypsies and persecuted-antisocial people from the XVI century, mainly moriscos, which were genetically full spanish, that was a form to avoid the expulsión from Spain, larping as gypsy. That's the reason why the provinces with more gypsies coincide very well with those with many moriscos, and that they use guitars and flamenco as music genre.

Still they are very distinguible from mainstream spaniards most times.

[Mortimer]

I learned in elementary school that roma origins from Dom which means men of lowly ancestry and they are from India

[WeirdLookingFellow]

No, there was another study shared here by ixulescu which studied some Balkan Gyosies which showed them to be in the 25% S Indian range, with the lowest of 19% and highest of around 43% or so.

At 19% this makes a grandparent to be around 3 quarters S. indian; for a population that arrived in the 15
4th-15th century this makes them barely mixed.

[Leto]

No, there was another study shared here by ixulescu which studied some Balkan Gyosies which showed them to be in the 25% S Indian range, with the lowest of 19% and highest of around 43% or so.

At 19% this makes a grandparent to be around 3 quarters S. indian; for a population that arrived in the 15
4th-15th century this makes them barely mixed.
25% South Indian is too low for India. Maybe the Jatts are in that range but most of India has a lot more.
I think Gypsies are dark because they also have a good amount of Gedrosia/Iranian type ancestry. Persians are not exactly pale-skinned for example.

[Nomansman]

25% South Indian is too low for India. Maybe the Jatts are in that range but most of India has a lot more.
I think Gypsies are dark because they also have a good amount of Gedrosia/Iranian type ancestry. Persians are not exactly pale-skinned for example.

gypsies have as high gedrosian as turks actually. Balkan and other euro ones.

[SharpFork]

Wait, Iberian Gitanos are only 10-20% Indian? That's pretty low. They look at least 50%.
I can't tell exactly how Gypsies from each country look like but compared to direct Indian/White mixes they look darker, probably because of MENA and Iranic ancestry instead of having only European ancestry on top of their original one.

[Leto]

I can't tell exactly how Gypsies from each country look like but compared to direct Indian/White mixes they look darker, probably because of MENA and Iranic ancestry instead of having only European ancestry on top of their original one.
You probably have a similar amount of SA as Balkan Gypsies being half Bangladeshi. Would love to see your results including Y DNA. There's a chance that you're one of us :cool:

[SharpFork]

You probably have a similar amount of SA as Balkan Gypsies being half Bangladeshi. Would love to see your results including Y DNA. There's a chance that you're one of us :cool:
Probably even more for Gypsies with 25% South Asian ancestry, I'm not sure how genetics differ between social classes in Muslim South Asian societies but my ancestry from that side while by no means poor it's not exactly Brahmin-like either, so I would have around 20-25% South Indian, which is honestly quite high.

How much South Indian would the original founding population for Gypsies be?

Edit: Y-DNA wise I wonder, R1a is 20% in Bangladesh, J about 10% I think.

[Leto]

Probably even more for Gypsies with 25% South Asian ancestry, I'm not sure how genetics differ between social classes in Muslim South Asian societies but my ancestry from that side while by no means poor it's not exactly Brahmin-like either, so I would have around 20-25% South Indian, which is honestly quite high.

How much South Indian would the original founding population for Gypsies be?

Edit: Y-DNA wise I wonder, R1a is 20% in Bangladesh, J about 10% I think.
Bangladeshi average is 45% on HarappaWorld. Your father is prolly 45-50% S-Indian and 10-15% Mongoloid.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?263613-How-mongoloid-influenced-are-Bangladeshis

[Jana]

How much South Indian would the original founding population for Gypsies be?

A lot, because they descend from low caste dalits in Punjab and Rajastan, hence Weddoid traits on quite many of them.

[Jana]

No, there was another study shared here by ixulescu which studied some Balkan Gyosies which showed them to be in the 25% S Indian range, with the lowest of 19% and highest of around 43% or so.

At 19% this makes a grandparent to be around 3 quarters S. indian; for a population that arrived in the 15
4th-15th century this makes them barely mixed.

It doesn't work like that. Most likely few generations ago they had same amount of Indian ancestry as they do now, mixing isn't recent in their case. Gypsies have huge amount of Balkan ancestry and it's a fact you can't deny.
Recent paper is very clear on that.

[Leto]

It doesn't work like that. Most likely few generations ago they had same amount of Indian ancestry as they do now, mixing isn't recent in their case. Gypsies have huge amount of Balkan ancestry and it's a fact you can't deny.
Recent paper is very clear on that.
I really wanna believe in Hungary they have more Steppe ancestry and are more suitable for assimilation because Hungary is the last stand of the white race!

[WeirdLookingFellow]

It doesn't work like that. Most likely few generations ago they had same amount of Indian ancestry as they do now, mixing isn't recent in their case. Gypsies have huge amount of Balkan ancestry and it's a fact you can't deny.
Recent paper is very clear on that.

You didn't get my point. A population that still shares at least one full grandparent that came straight from India, while being in a completely different continent for 500 years, is impressive in terms of mixing. one's expectation would have been more Balkan/European ancestry.

[Rocinante]

Target: Roma_Madrid
Distance: 1.6238% / 0.01623758
36.6 EEF
23.8 DRAVIDIAN
23.0 STEPPE
7.4 LEVANT
4.2 WHG
2.4 CHG
1.2 IRAN
0.8 AFRICA-NORTHWEST
0.6 AUSTRALIA

Target: Roma_Madrid
Distance: 1.0820% / 0.01082020
32.4 Iberian
21.8 Pallar_Maratha
18.6 Armenian_Assyrian
16.4 Greek_Albanian
4.4 Central_European
3.6 North_Sea_Germanic
1.6 Belgian_French
0.4 Malawi_San
0.4 Papuan
0.2 Balto_Slavic_South
0.2 Yemenite_Arab

More than the half european.

[Jana]

I really wanna believe in Hungary they have more Steppe ancestry and are more suitable for assimilation because Hungary is the last stand of the white race!
They behave bad, but some are assimilated and good citizens. There are big problems between two communities in countryside. In cities it is better.


You didn't get my point. A population that still shares at least one full grandparent that came straight from India, while being in a completely different continent for 500 years, is impressive in terms of mixing. one's expectation would have been more Balkan/European ancestry.

Well, I expected them to be majority Indian because they look far more Indian than European (or West Asian) to me.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Target: Roma_Madrid
Distance: 1.6238% / 0.01623758
36.6 EEF
23.8 DRAVIDIAN
23.0 STEPPE
7.4 LEVANT
4.2 WHG
2.4 CHG
1.2 IRAN
0.8 AFRICA-NORTHWEST
0.6 AUSTRALIA

Target: Roma_Madrid
Distance: 1.0820% / 0.01082020
32.4 Iberian
21.8 Pallar_Maratha
18.6 Armenian_Assyrian
16.4 Greek_Albanian
4.4 Central_European
3.6 North_Sea_Germanic
1.6 Belgian_French
0.4 Malawi_San
0.4 Papuan
0.2 Balto_Slavic_South
0.2 Yemenite_Arab

More than the half european.

At least we know these calculators are more or less consistent with study results.

[Jana]

Target: Roma_Madrid
Distance: 1.6238% / 0.01623758
36.6 EEF
23.8 DRAVIDIAN
23.0 STEPPE
7.4 LEVANT
4.2 WHG
2.4 CHG
1.2 IRAN
0.8 AFRICA-NORTHWEST
0.6 AUSTRALIA

Target: Roma_Madrid
Distance: 1.0820% / 0.01082020
32.4 Iberian
21.8 Pallar_Maratha
18.6 Armenian_Assyrian
16.4 Greek_Albanian
4.4 Central_European
3.6 North_Sea_Germanic
1.6 Belgian_French
0.4 Malawi_San
0.4 Papuan
0.2 Balto_Slavic_South
0.2 Yemenite_Arab

More than the half european.

Could you run the same calculator for Balkan Gypsies, please?

[Leto]

Does Angela Jonsson look Romani? Icelandic father, Tamil mother
https://i.bollywoodmantra.com/albums/candids/actresses/angela-jonsson/angela-jonsson___315722.JPG
https://i.bollywoodmantra.com/albums/events/miscellaneous/angela-johnson-unveils-grazia-special-cover-issue/angela-jonsson__588479.JPG

I'm more into lighter people but she is gorgeous. And needs more European blood :p

[ProudBrit]

It doesn't work like that. Most likely few generations ago they had same amount of Indian ancestry as they do now, mixing isn't recent in their case. Gypsies have huge amount of Balkan ancestry and it's a fact you can't deny.
Recent paper is very clear on that.

Bullshit, Mortimer's barely 60% euro on 23andme despite his dad being 3/4 Balkan and his mom having euro herself, it is very clear that his mom would be a lot less Balkan.

And I have seen and were posted here 23andme of half Romanian gippos that would place their parents in the ~20% euro range at most.

And we're talking here about urban gippos, you think those very poor and near unmixed rural ones can afford 23andme? But then again what do you know, Croatia has almost no gipsies.

[Rocinante]

At least we know these calculators are more or less consistent with study results.

This Davidski references with the G25 are right now, the most accurate and reliable genetic tools. Gedmatch is a fucking fossil near the extinction and comercial test are only to obtain raw data, their ancestry breakdown are a joke.

[Rocinante]

Could you run the same calculator for Balkan Gypsies, please?

Of course m'lady.

Target: Roma_Balkans
Distance: 2.1016% / 0.02101641
34.0 DRAVIDIAN
28.0 EEF
16.6 STEPPE
10.6 LEVANT
4.2 CHG
2.6 CENTRAL-ASIA
2.0 EHG
1.6 WHG
0.4 AUSTRALIA

Target: Roma_Balkans
Distance: 1.0860% / 0.01085994
36.0 Greek_Albanian
30.8 Pallar_Maratha
22.8 Armenian_Assyrian
7.2 Balto_Slavic_South
1.4 Yemenite_Arab
0.8 Balto_Slavic_North
0.8 Tamil_Brahmin
0.2 Papuan

Seems that balkan gypsies, in average, are less european admixtured.

[Jana]

^^^^ Thanks!


Bullshit, Mortimer's barely 60% euro on 23andme despite his dad being 3/4 Balkan and his mom having euro herself, it is very clear that his mom would be a lot less Balkan.

And I have seen and were posted here 23andme of half Romanian gippos that would place their parents in the ~20% euro range at most.

And we're talking here about urban gippos, you think those very poor and near unmixed rural ones can afford 23andme? But then again what do you know, Croatia has almost no gipsies.

There are 3 Romani neighbourhoods in my home city.

[Leto]

Mortimer should better test his full Romani mother instead of wasting money on useless shit like Living DNA or full mt DNA sequence. We would at least have a confirmed genetic Romani who actually looks Indian.

[Rocinante]

^^^^ Thanks!



There are 3 Romani neighbourhoods in my home city.

No problem, i love helping out with this. Now, i don't know how to reply reputation comments because i'm still dumb using the forum, but to answer your question of which calc is the second one i used, it's name is Ultimate Modern World K=50 from Vahaduo.

[Jana]

Mortimer should better test his full Romani mother instead of wasting money on useless shit like Living DNA or full mt DNA sequence. We would at least have a confirmed genetic Romani who actually looks Indian.

Full mtdna sequence is fantastic. It helped me confirm ethnicity of my maternal line and their place of origin. I think he claims his mother is part Russian, or not?

[Leto]

Full mtdna sequence is fantastic. It helped me confirm ethnicity of my maternal line and their place of origin. I think he claims his mother is part Russian, or not?
Yeah it told him he is Scottish or Germanic. LOL very useful. His mother is ZERO Germanic.

[Jana]

Yeah it told him he is Scottish or Germanic. LOL very useful. His mother is ZERO Germanic.

Absolutely irrelevant. Mtdna is thousands of years old, and his is obviously European. Haplogroup tests are million times more accurate than autosomal, because there is no recombination.

[Leto]

Absolutely irrelevant. Mtdna is thousands of years old, and his is obviously European. Haplogroup tests are million times more accurate than autosomal, because there is no recombination.
Alright, if you don't wanna see his mother's Gedmatch, you may leave ;)
I don't care about his mt DNA, it doesn't make him whitier whatsoever. Even if mine is East Eurasian, I am many times whiter than him both racially and phenotypically.

[Jana]

Alright, if you don't wanna see his mother's Gedmatch, you may leave ;)
I don't care about his mt DNA, it doesn't make him whitier whatsoever. Even if mine is East Eurasian, I am many times whiter than him both racially and phenotypically.

I just corrected you by saying mtdna full sequence is useless test. No, it's much better than autosomal test if you want to determine your mother line ancestry. Without it I would never be sure but now I am.
Lithuanians are predominately N1c and almost zero Mongoloid autosomaly, yet it's clear their haplogroup spread from China.

Mortimer is mostly Gypsy but both his haplogroups are European.

[Leto]

I just corrected you by saying mtdna full sequence is useless test. No, it's much better than autosomal test if you want to determine your mother line ancestry. Without it I would never be sure but now I am.
Lithuanians are predominately N1c and almost zero Mongoloid autosomaly, yet it's clear their haplogroup spread from China.

Mortimer is mostly Gypsy but both his haplogroups are European.
Okay, you're right. It's just a little bit expensive.

[Jana]

Okay, you're right. It's just a little bit expensive.

There is discount around Christmas on all haplogroup tests, maybe for Easter too. I brought mine during big discount. For Black Friday too.

[Scandal]

I really wanna believe in Hungary they have more Steppe ancestry and are more suitable for assimilation because Hungary is the last stand of the white race!

They're unassimilatable. Gypsies assimilating magyars is more likely xD

[Leto]

They're unassimilatable. Gypsies assimilating magyars is more likely xD
Don't they speak the same language, have the same names and share the same religion?
Hungary is loved by white nationalists around the world, so please live up to those expectations.

[Duffmannn]

Don't they speak the same language, have the same names and share the same religion?
Hungary is loved by white nationalists around the world, so please live up to those expectations.

You clearly have never known gypsies. Gypsies only care for themselves: are unasimiliable.

[Thambi]

You clearly have never known gypsies. Gypsies only care for themselves: are unasimiliable.

They probably became like that since your people blocked them off for hundreds of years.

[Trouble]

You didn't get my point. A population that still shares at least one full grandparent that came straight from India, while being in a completely different continent for 500 years, is impressive in terms of mixing. one's expectation would have been more Balkan/European ancestry.

Not really. Other populations have moved about for longer and are less mixed.

[Leto]

They probably became like that since your people blocked them off for hundreds of years.
Actually India is to blame with their caste system. Before criticizing us assimilate millions upon millions of your own dalits and tribals who are piss poor and live in the dirt.

[Duffmannn]

They probably became like that since your people blocked them off for hundreds of years.

The biggest gypsy population in the world is in India...

[Leto]

User Mingle who is Pakistani told me that Dalit type people are a plague in Pakistan. They look like South Indians but are a lot worse. Total parasites. Obviously that's because at some point they wound up at the bottom of the social pyramid.

[Thambi]

Actually India is to blame with their caste system. Before criticizing us assimilate millions upon millions of your own dalits and tribals who are piss poor and live in the dirt.

caste system is mostly effective in terms of marriage. outside of that there are many rich low castes and many poor high castes. Infact, brahmins used to be just priests in the past and some of the poorest people in india.

I mean you have class differences, rich vs. poor in the west as well. Its roughly the same with india and its differences.

Now gypsies ended up in europe either through the discrimination as you mentioned, OR were taken as slaves. Many indians were taken as slaves to central asia in the past and from there they could have spread to the west.

[Trouble]

Probably even more for Gypsies with 25% South Asian ancestry, I'm not sure how genetics differ between social classes in Muslim South Asian societies but my ancestry from that side while by no means poor it's not exactly Brahmin-like either, so I would have around 20-25% South Indian, which is honestly quite high.

How much South Indian would the original founding population for Gypsies be?

Edit: Y-DNA wise I wonder, R1a is 20% in Bangladesh, J about 10% I think.

Right now it's difficult to know but they would be 65%+ South Indian on Harappaworld based on the groups that repeatedly come up on G25.

[El_Abominacion]

Wait, Iberian Gitanos are only 10-20% Indian? That's pretty low. They look at least 50%.

When I lived in Spain I saw many Gitanos and they look more South Asian than anything, distinguishable from Spaniards or even MENAs in appearance. So I too am surprised that their South Asian score is so low

[Thambi]

User Mingle who is Pakistani told me that Dalit type people are a plague in Pakistan. They look like South Indians but are a lot worse. Total parasites. Obviously that's because at some point they wound up at the bottom of the social pyramid.

actually richest and most successful people in Pakistan are muhajirs, who ALSO look very indian on average because they migrated from India to paksitan during partition in 1947 and een though they're rich, they're still hated in pakistan. same with us indians in the west. even though we're the richest ethnic group in america, people still dislike us, look down upon us in every aspect, etc.

So even if gypsies were rich and successful, europeans would have not assimilated with them because they're the wrong type of foreign. If its the right type of foreign that look like mongols, central asians that east europeans love so much, then you guys would have assimilated with them even if they were dirt poor.

i mean its even evident in people posting their genetic results. certain balkan users proudly show off their mongoloid/siberian and have a dick battle on who's more mongoloid while at the same time feel ashamed of even like 2% south asian. Its very evident man idk how you cant see this

[Leto]

When I lived in Spain I saw many Gitanos and they look more South Asian than anything, distinguishable from Spaniards or even MENAs in appearance. So I too am surprised that their South Asian score is so low
Balkan Roma are even more so, including Russian Roma. Russian Roma are among the darkest minorities I've seen in Russia aside from African foreigners obviously. I mean they don't look Tamil of course but darker than let's say Armenians on average.

[Leto]

actually richest and most successful people in Pakistan are muhajirs, who ALSO look very indian on average because they migrated from India to paksitan during partition in 1947 and een though they're rich, they're still hated in pakistan. same with us indians in the west. even though we're the richest ethnic group in america, people still dislike us, look down upon us in every aspect, etc.

So even if gypsies were rich and successful, europeans would have not assimilated with them because they're the wrong type of foreign. If its the right type of foreign that look like mongols, central asians that east europeans love so much, then you guys would have assimilated with them even if they were dirt poor.

i mean its even evident iin people posting their genetic results. certain balkan users proudly show off their mongoloid/siberian and have a dick battle on who's more mongoloid while at the same time feel ashamed of even like 2% south asian. Its very evident man idk how you cant see this
We aren't proud of the mongoloid, that's your false assumption. I thank God I don't show it in my phenotype. It's not subhuman blood of course but I prefer proper white people.

[Trouble]

How much EEF+CHG+STEPPE+WHG they have?

"sample": "Roma_Balkans:Average",
"fit": 2.0548,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 40,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 20.83,
"RUS_Sidelkino_HG": 15.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 15.83,
"GEO_CHG": 7.5,
"WHG": 0,

"sample": "Roma_Barcelona:Average",
"fit": 2.0206,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 48.33,
"RUS_Sidelkino_HG": 19.17,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 12.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 8.33,
"GEO_CHG": 6.67,
"WHG": 5,

"sample": "Roma_Bilbao:Average",
"fit": 2.4311,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 44.17,
"RUS_Sidelkino_HG": 17.5,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 15,
"Simulated_AASI": 15,
"GEO_CHG": 7.5,
"WHG": 0.83,

[Epirus DNA]

We aren't proud of the mongoloid, that's your false assumption. I thank God I don't show it in my phenotype. It's not subhuman blood of course but I prefer proper white people.

What the hell is "subhuman blood" ???

[Leto]

Don't be butthurt about nothing, no one is talking about Indian diaspora. Gypsies are their own thing unrelated to recent Indian immigrants. And yes, I preach Gypsy assimilation personally.

[Jana]

I am very curious about DNA results of my friend's son. She will test him when he grows bit older. She is Croat with minor Jewish, and boy's father is Bengali/Sylheti. He may end up closest to Gypsies genetically.

[Trouble]

actually richest and most successful people in Pakistan are muhajirs, who ALSO look very indian on average because they migrated from India to paksitan during partition in 1947 and een though they're rich, they're still hated in pakistan. same with us indians in the west. even though we're the richest ethnic group in america, people still dislike us, look down upon us in every aspect, etc.

So even if gypsies were rich and successful, europeans would have not assimilated with them because they're the wrong type of foreign. If its the right type of foreign that look like mongols, central asians that east europeans love so much, then you guys would have assimilated with them even if they were dirt poor.

i mean its even evident in people posting their genetic results. certain balkan users proudly show off their mongoloid/siberian and have a dick battle on who's more mongoloid while at the same time feel ashamed of even like 2% south asian. Its very evident man idk how you cant see this

Don't give in to this kind of mentality. Most normal people would not give a fuck or would find it interesting if they showed a bit of south asian on a genetic test. As I said this forum is full of easily influenced mentally ill people so they latch onto whatever bandwagon they can.

[Trouble]

Don't be butthurt about nothing, no one is talking about Indian diaspora. Gypsies are their own thing unrelated to recent Indian immigrants. And yes, I preach Gypsy assimilation personally.

This is true. They are not really connected to us in a meaningful way.

[Trouble]

When I lived in Spain I saw many Gitanos and they look more South Asian than anything, distinguishable from Spaniards or even MENAs in appearance. So I too am surprised that their South Asian score is so low

There might've been selection for these traits which is why they were retained. Or it could be that the wealthier ones who could afford tests are more mixed than the poorer ones. Who knows tbh

[Adamastor]

Absolutely irrelevant. Mtdna is thousands of years old, and his is obviously European. Haplogroup tests are million times more accurate than autosomal, because there is no recombination.

Very true. People here are very ignorant regarding genetics. They think you are an exact breakdown of all your ancestors.:picard1:
That's why they waste time calculating percentages and stuff like that.

yDNA and mtDNA are much more efficient in tracking down your lineage, autosomal can change in few generations, even 1 depending on the ratio of admixture. Let's take someone like Cristiano Ronaldo, for example. He is mostly Portuguese with some Capeverdean great-grandmother, likely around 12% SSA + 2% Northeast African in Eurogenes calculators (a guy with similar ancestry and probably genetic profile was posted once by Sikeliot); it's possible in theory for one of his kids to have even noise numbers (0-2%) of these percentages if the mother was Irish or Scando. It doesn't mean the kids would not have a great-great grandmother from Cape Verde.

At the same time, you can inherit more DNA from a parent or grandparent. Member Celestia is only 1% SSA, but her sister is around 5-6%. And your phenotype doesn't necessarily correlates with proportions.

A gypsy can have quite dark skin even being autosomally mostly European, in theory it's possible to be 92% European and 8% South Asian and still have quite dark skin tone. Especially if the European ancestry is Southern European, with less genetic markers for light-pigmentation.


Autosomal tests will be a thing of the past in the coming years (~20 years from now), when full sequencing of all yDNA and mtDNA lines will become tangible reality.

[pajkosbalna]

Don't they speak the same language, have the same names and share the same religion?
Hungary is loved by white nationalists around the world, so please live up to those expectations.

Unfortunately the gap between the cultures prevents this assimialtion. The build up of the roma society is very much different from hungarian.

[Leto]

This is true. They are not really connected to us in a meaningful way.
You guys are far from homogeneous and there is a lot of cultural and ethnic tensions in India. Not to mention the Ind-Paki relations. Many groups in India rival and hate each other as far as I know. And of course Indian idol worshipping with human-elephant statues looks weird and foreign, although not nearly as negatively perceived as Islam.

[El_Abominacion]

There might've been selection for these traits which is why they were retained. Or it could be that the wealthier ones who could afford tests are more mixed than the poorer ones. Who knows tbh

I honestly feel like that’s the case, with only the less ‘brown’ ones who are more Euro admixed being the ones currently in the testing pool for some socioeconomic reason. Probably easier to assimilate

[SharpFork]

A lot, because they descend from low caste dalits in Punjab and Rajastan, hence Weddoid traits on quite many of them.
According to Thambi's data for tribals(which you would imagine would be even more) that wouldn't be much though:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?298800-Indian-TRIBAL-averages-by-state-(WE-EE-South-Indian)

40-55%, that's around the level of middle castes in most Indian states:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?298571-Indian-middle-caste-averages-by-State-(S-Indian-W-Eurasian-and-E-Eurasian)

And of Brahmins as well:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?300008-Indian-BRAHMIN-(upper-caste)-averages-by-state-(WE-EE-South-Indian)

On the other side they could have been like most other Dalits, so around 60-70%.

[Trouble]

This is a poor gypsy village in Romania where part of Borat was filmed. None of them give a familiar vibe at all. I think a lot of users here are just unusually perceptive to Indian or non-Euro features and "exaggerate" how ethnic Gypsies look:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLeaVbyCTyc

[Leto]

This is a poor gypsy village in Romania where part of Borat was filmed. None of them give a familiar vibe at all. I think a lot of users here are just unusually perceptive to Indian or non-Euro features and "exaggerate" how ethnic Gypsies look:

[video=youtube;vLeaVbyCTyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLeaVbyCTyc
Their darkness is comparable to that of many Middle Eastern and Central Asian groups.

[CommonSense]

This is a poor gypsy village in Romania where part of Borat was filmed. None of them give a familiar vibe at all. I think a lot of users here are just unusually perceptive to Indian or non-Euro features and "exaggerate" how ethnic Gypsies look:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLeaVbyCTyc

Half of Pakis and Nepalis posted here by lameduck and NPKTO are much lighter than them, so...

[Adamastor]

Don't give in to this kind of mentality. Most normal people would not give a fuck or would find it interesting if they showed a bit of south asian on a genetic test. As I said this forum is full of easily influenced mentally ill people so they latch onto whatever bandwagon they can.

True. This forum is hardly representative of what people think anywhere in the world. Many users here are antisocial individuals with self-affirming agendas.

[Thambi]

Don't give in to this kind of mentality. Most normal people would not give a fuck or would find it interesting if they showed a bit of south asian on a genetic test. As I said this forum is full of easily influenced mentally ill people so they latch onto whatever bandwagon they can.

people literally think the more indian you look, the more dirty, poor and 'subhuman' like you are. not only on this forum tbh. even many northern south asians view indians like this. Let me tell some people here that some of the most 'indian' looking people, people with more ASI than dalits from rajasthan, have shown success within india and in the west.

South india has lower fertility than Sweden
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/7dp01m/indian_states_with_a_lower_fertility_rate_than/

Srilanka has the same life expectancy and HDI as China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

India has more Nobel prize winners (both in Sciences and overall) than China. Most of them are Bengali and South indian, both very highly ASI shifted populations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita

I'm not trying to show off that ASI is better than steppe in that region. I'm just saying us indian and indic origin gypsies are humans too and have same capabilities if given the same opportunities to develop. Thats all im trying to say. I know this is a euro forum and obviously will support your own kin. Thats a given I would support south asians first as well. But my intention is to show that as cliche as it sounds we're all humans in the end.

[SharpFork]

They probably became like that since your people blocked them off for hundreds of years.
The example of Irish travellers shows otherwise, a population otherwise very similar to the majority of the Irish population became different socially and nowadays it's extremely backwards, high level of criminality, low levels of education, higher fertility rates.

The gypsy lifestyle is a trap, it might have served them well in pre-modern times but it's clear it has all kinds of negative effects in the social sphere and causes extreme demographic effects, for example despite the massacres of WW2 the gypsy population multiplied by like 8 times between 1939 to 1998 despite WW2 killing between 20% to 60% of their population, meaning they actually grew between 20 and 10 times in about 2 generations.
Sure maybe their initial population was miscalculated but even then it's evident they grew way faster than any other population in Europe be they other Muslims, Christians, minorities or majority population in their respective country. This growth happened despite sterilization program by many countries.

It's clear that what distinguishes gypsies, both Balkan and Irish, from Samis, Jews, Balkan Muslim minorities is their lifestyle and internal societal structure, sure discrimination played a role but it didn't by itself determine the current socio-economic status of Romani communities.

[Leto]

True. This forum is hardly representative of what people think anywhere in the world. Many users here are antisocial individuals with self-affirming agendas.
Including yourself. You post in every single thread implying how objective and smart you are. Also you are obsessed with bashing Gedmatch at every opportunity. Okay, don't use it but other people will still use it because it's free, understandable and has a huge data base.

[Leto]

Gypsies are not hated for their skin color, that's complete bullshit. They are hated for the criminality and associal behavior.

[Adamastor]

Including yourself. You post in every single thread implying how objective and smart you are. Also you are obsessed with bashing Gedmatch at every opportunity. Okay, don't use it but other people will still use it because it's free, understandable and has a huge data base.

I'm not obsessed in bashing GEDmatch (what I say is just the truth, it's a stone age tool) and I only post in threads in which there are genetics discussions. I barely talk about myself though, I'm not the kind of person wanting to pass off as superior.

[Scandal]

...

[Nomansman]

When I lived in Spain I saw many Gitanos and they look more South Asian than anything, distinguishable from Spaniards or even MENAs in appearance. So I too am surprised that their South Asian score is so low

Maybe you didnt see the SAME kind of gitanos? Maybe they have a varation and you met the more south asian shifted ones?

[El_Abominacion]

Maybe you didnt see the SAME kind of gitanos? Maybe they have a varation and you met the more south asian shifted ones?

Of course there is going to be some degree of variation throughout the country. I’m saying that in general the ones I saw look well over 20 something percent South Asian on average

[SharpFork]

Gypsies are not hated for their skin color, that's complete bullshit. They are hated for the criminality and associal behavior.
And to reiterate the same goes for Irish travellers, that have no connection to gypsies, it's ridiculous how similar the 2 cases are despite one having a clear racial distinction attached to it and the other none whatsoever.

The only real solution is complete or almost complete assimilation, their societal separation and lifestyle has a clear record of being disastrous, my opinion might be extreme but in a ethnic(not racial) sense the Roma community cannot survive if we want Romas to thrive just like most other Europeans do and to assimilate or even just integrate in their respective country, the Romani languages already are declining and don't by itself determine whether one is Roma or not and if we want to get rid of the lifestyle and ethnic tension that brought us to the situation we are now the only solution is for the Roma to drop most of their distinctive features.

[Leto]

And to reiterate the same goes for Irish travellers, that have no connection to gypsies, it's ridiculous how similar the 2 cases are despite one having a clear racial distinction attached to it and the other none whatsoever.

The only real solution is complete or almost complete assimilation, their societal separation and lifestyle has a clear record of being disastrous, my opinion might be extreme but in a ethnic(not racial) sense the Roma community cannot survive if we want Romas to thrive just like most other Europeans do and to assimilate or even just integrate in their respective country, the Romani languages already are declining and don't by itself determine whether one is Roma or not and if we want to get rid of the lifestyle and ethnic tension that brought us to the situation we are now the only solution is for the Roma to drop most of their distinctive features.
Yes, absolutely. Being Romani equals being associal and backwards. They already speak European languages, practice Christianity or maybe Islam in more Southern places. Or no religion at all. Why cling to that cancerous misfit lowlife identity? I'm not even saying they should necessarily be forced to live in skyscrapers or wear suits and ties, they can remain rural. Rural whites are still vastly different from Gyspsies.

[Leto]

In Russia/Russian-speaking areas Gypsies speak a mix of Russian and Romani which sounds like gibberish. They lack a lot of words for modern or abstract concepts, so they have to code-switch all the time. Actually the Soviets tried to purify their language and create some literature but to little avail.

[SharpFork]

Yes, absolutely. Being Romani equals being associal and backwards. They already speak European languages, practice Christianity or maybe Islam in more Southern places. Or no religion at all. Why cling to that cancerous misfit lowlife identity? I'm not even saying they should necessarily be forced to live in skyscrapers or wear suits and ties, they can remain rural. Rural whites are still vastly different from Gyspsies.
Plus the stereotype of Gypsy society reinforces themselves as exogamous and more integrated gypsies simply assimilate ethnically in a local society(not even the majority one, for example muslim Roma assimilating into Balkan Turks) and basically leave their cousins to their own devices, so insofar as gypsy have such high fertility rates even if a quarter or a third of them assimilate every generation the Gypsy community would grow faster than the local population, it's simply ridiculous.

[Scandal]

.....

[Thambi]

Half of Pakis and Nepalis posted here by lameduck and NPKTO are much lighter than them, so...

Half of Nepal's population is Tibetan in origin and even the indo aryan groups live in high mountains. so them being light isnt that big of a surprise. Besides nepal's population is only 30 million and pakistan's is 200 mill. So total 230 million in those two countries. Thats still a lot of people but with india, bangladesh, srilanka in the picture, south asia's population overall is almost 1.9 billion people. Thats 1/4 of the world's population.

[lameduck]

some gypsies look straight up paki ,its so obvious.

[SharpFork]

some gypsies look straight up paki ,its so obvious.
What's obvious?

[lameduck]

What's obvious?

that they have south asian admixture

[Trouble]

Their darkness is comparable to that of many Middle Eastern and Central Asian groups.

They don’t look Indian though

[SharpFork]

that they have south asian admixture
I mean sure nobody here is denying that, the debate is how much.

[SharpFork]

They don’t look Indian though
What does it mean to look Indian though? Would you really go so far as to say that no population in India looks similar to Gypsies? I'm not contesting what you say, I'm just curious.

[Trouble]

What does it mean to look Indian though? Would you really go so far as to say that no population in India looks similar to Gypsies? I'm not contesting what you say, I'm just curious.

On average yes, no Indic population looks like Gypsies, if the people from that village are the norm.

[Nomansman]

Well, they(gypsies) on general(based on some samples from middleeast and balkans) seem to on avg has as much aasi as most west eurasian indians and most south asian shifted pashtuns(not ones being directly mixed with punjabis), but however they have a lot lower iran n admix compared to sc asians, central asians and south asians(hence why theyre less south asian shifted than south asians). Depends on where theyre from. If balkans, they have as much gedrosian as turks and some euros. If middleeast, as much as the natives.

Some are more mixed though and have as much aasi as many afghans, if not even as much as central asians(but they would be more mixed than many other gypsies though)

[Trouble]

I am very curious about DNA results of my friend's son. She will test him when he grows bit older. She is Croat with minor Jewish, and boy's father is Bengali/Sylheti. He may end up closest to Gypsies genetically.

He will not be similar to Roma. He would lack the high Med type ancestry that Roma have as well as having minor East Asian which Roma lack.

[ixulescu]

Roma are NOT majority South Asian. Please stop portraying them as such,

They are mixed genetically but their vagrant culture is South Asian. Their reputation is poor because they are associated with begging and high rate of infractionality.

[Leto]

On average yes, no Indic population looks like Gypsies, if the people from that village are the norm.
A quick Google search for "romani people Bulgaria"

These good-looking ones obviously have white blood
https://res.cloudinary.com/fleetnation/image/private/c_fit,w_1120/g_south,l_text:style_gothic2:%C2%A9%20Nina%20Yanev a,o_20,y_10/g_center,l_watermark4,o_25,y_50/v1551790331/ws3fx1ejrc7aerc9hk2r.jpg
Nice kids
https://live.staticflickr.com/7035/6489836675_75835eb80b_b.jpg

But in these ones the Pajeet is stronger
Notice the old woman
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/A56R1X/painet-ja0745-man-male-children-kids-bulgaria-romas-karlova-photo-A56R1X.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/A56R1K/painet-ja0743-children-kids-bulgaria-romas-karlova-photo-2004-europe-A56R1K.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BTFWFA/roma-children-from-stolipinovo-bulgaria-BTFWFA.jpg
I think genetic defects are a problem in Romani communities.

[Cernunnos]

Very true. People here are very ignorant regarding genetics. They think you are an exact breakdown of all your ancestors.:picard1:
That's why they waste time calculating percentages and stuff like that.

yDNA and mtDNA are much more efficient in tracking down your lineage, autosomal can change in few generations, even 1 depending on the ratio of admixture. Let's take someone like Cristiano Ronaldo, for example. He is mostly Portuguese with some Capeverdean great-grandmother, likely around 12% SSA + 2% Northeast African in Eurogenes calculators (a guy with similar ancestry and probably genetic profile was posted once by Sikeliot); it's possible in theory for one of his kids to have even noise numbers (0-2%) of these percentages if the mother was Irish or Scando. It doesn't mean the kids would not have a great-great grandmother from Cape Verde.

At the same time, you can inherit more DNA from a parent or grandparent. Member Celestia is only 1% SSA, but her sister is around 5-6%. And your phenotype doesn't necessarily correlates with proportions.

A gypsy can have quite dark skin even being autosomally mostly European, in theory it's possible to be 92% European and 8% South Asian and still have quite dark skin tone. Especially if the European ancestry is Southern European, with less genetic markers for light-pigmentation.


Autosomal tests will be a thing of the past in the coming years (~20 years from now), when full sequencing of all yDNA and mtDNA lines will become tangible reality.

First, Cape Verdians are mostly mixed, second no way CR7 is 1/8 SSA, not even his sisters nor his parents show any SSA trait. He must be 3-6% SSA at most. And there's also the posibility that his great-grandmother from Cape Verde could have been white or mostly white, there are still some left there 45 years after independence, let alone in colonial times.

[Cernunnos]

This is Cristiano Ronaldo's cape verdian great grandmother.

https://scontent.flis5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10384770_893391267371258_4954279136404088996_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=K4PN4Vsl5yAAX_-H0bj&_nc_ht=scontent.flis5-1.fna&oh=ed89926872c9d2924dc71d93b82df18d&oe=5EFF4BE3

[Trouble]

A quick Google search for "romani people Bulgaria"

These good-looking ones obviously have white blood
https://res.cloudinary.com/fleetnation/image/private/c_fit,w_1120/g_south,l_text:style_gothic2:%C2%A9%20Nina%20Yanev a,o_20,y_10/g_center,l_watermark4,o_25,y_50/v1551790331/ws3fx1ejrc7aerc9hk2r.jpg
Nice kids
https://live.staticflickr.com/7035/6489836675_75835eb80b_b.jpg

But in these ones the Pajeet is stronger
Notice the old woman
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/A56R1X/painet-ja0745-man-male-children-kids-bulgaria-romas-karlova-photo-A56R1X.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/A56R1K/painet-ja0743-children-kids-bulgaria-romas-karlova-photo-2004-europe-A56R1K.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BTFWFA/roma-children-from-stolipinovo-bulgaria-BTFWFA.jpg
I think genetic defects are a problem in Romani communities.

Almost all those people look heavily mixed. The only ones that could pass as pure Indians are the old woman and the little girl in the yellow.

[Jana]

He will not be similar to Roma. He would lack the high Med type ancestry that Roma have as well as having minor East Asian which Roma lack.

Not the same, but closer to Romani than to any other group I can think of. He will have higher northeast European and higher mongoloid, but otherwise will be similar South Asian-SE European-minor Levantine mix.
Slyhetis are high in South Indian and not far from low caste NW Indians except for excessive mongoloid, I think. His father is very dark brown skinned.

However, boy looks nothing like a Gypsy so far. He looks full blown SE Asian/Khmer, except for being quite light skinned, like Mortimer. Quite interesting.

[Tooting Carmen]

This is Cristiano Ronaldo's cape verdian great grandmother.

https://scontent.flis5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10384770_893391267371258_4954279136404088996_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=K4PN4Vsl5yAAX_-H0bj&_nc_ht=scontent.flis5-1.fna&oh=ed89926872c9d2924dc71d93b82df18d&oe=5EFF4BE3

Looks blatantly part-Black.

[Leto]

Not the same, but closer to Romani than to any other group I can think of. He will have higher northeast European and higher mongoloid, but otherwise will be similar South Asian-SE European-minor Levantine mix.
Slyhetis are high in South Indian and not far from low caste NW Indians except for excessive mongoloid, I think. His father is very dark brown skinned.

However, boy looks nothing like a Gypsy so far. He looks full blown SE Asian/Khmer, except for being quite light skinned, like Mortimer. Quite interesting.
If he is 1/8 Ashkenazi that means he's roughly 1/16 Middle Eastern which is almost nothing.

[Jana]

If he is 1/8 Ashkenazi that means he's roughly 1/16 Middle Eastern which is almost nothing.

True. He is 1/16 Ashkenazi, yes. It isn't much. But interestingly Gypsies are also far less MENA according to last paper than we tought. Mostly Balkan-Indian mix, MENA is minor. On 23andme many get high Kurdish like admixture though. They match Anatolia and Iranian Plateau, but not Turkish inhabited regions and they score no mong.

[Leto]

True. He is 1/16 Ashkenazi, yes. It isn't much. But interestingly Gypsies are also far less MENA according to last paper than we tought. Mostly Balkan-Indian mix, MENA is minor. On 23andme many get high Kurdish like admixture though. They match Anatolia and Iranian Plateau, but not Turkish inhabited regions and they score no mong.
Why were they modeled as roughly 1/3 Greek/Albanian, 1/3 Armenian/Trabzon and 1/3 Low caste Indian on G25?

[Leto]

I would like to see what a Balkan Gypsy and Northern/Central European mix would look like. A full Bulgarian or Romanian Gypsy + a German or a Czech or maybe a Baltic person.
I once saw a Gypsy-Russian couple, the Gypsy woman was noticeably South Asian, her husband was a light ethnic Russian and their daughter was quite light too (at least as a baby). A nice couple, they followed my assimilation plan :cool:

[Tooting Carmen]

I would like to see what a Balkan Gypsy and Northern/Central European mix would look like. A full Bulgarian or Romanian Gypsy + a German or a Czech or maybe a Baltic person.

Possibly come out as pseudo-Georgian or Armenian?

[Avicenna]

I would like to see what a Balkan Gypsy and Northern/Central European mix would look like. A full Bulgarian or Romanian Gypsy + a German or a Czech or maybe a Baltic person.
I once saw a Gypsy-Russian couple, the Gypsy woman was noticeably South Asian, her husband was a light ethnic Russian and their daughter was quite light too (at least as a baby). A nice couple, they followed my assimilation plan :cool:

Half south Asian half euro mixes usually turn out to look very appealing , so you assimilation plan has some benefits to future single folks lol

[Jana]

Why were they modeled as roughly 1/3 Greek/Albanian, 1/3 Armenian/Trabzon and 1/3 Low caste Indian on G25?

I am not sure. Maybe they are diverse genetically.

[Leto]

Half south Asian half euro mixes usually turn out to look very appealing , so you assimilation plan has some benefits to future single folks lol
Gypsies aren't exactly South Asian, that's the point. Just like you can't call Jews fully Middle Eastern.

[PaleoEuropean]

The majority of their ancestry does not equate to the majority of their culture, ethnicity and expressed genetic traits though.

[Avicenna]

Gypsies aren't exactly South Asian, that's the point. Just like you can't call Jews fully Middle Eastern.

Yeah that's true ofcourse . I've always wondered how half south Asian ( Tamil like groups ) half euros end up looking more euro looking than gypsies who have similar amounts of euro ancestry .

[SharpFork]

He will not be similar to Roma. He would lack the high Med type ancestry that Roma have as well as having minor East Asian which Roma lack.
It actually would be relatively prevalent, Bangladeshi have something like 15% East Eurasian, a Sylhety could be a bit higher so maybe the guy would have 10% East Eurasian.

[Trouble]

Yeah that's true ofcourse . I've always wondered how half south Asian ( Tamil like groups ) half euros end up looking more euro looking than gypsies who have similar amounts of euro ancestry .

That's because very recent mixes(1-3 generations) are more likely to swing in one direct or another compared to older mixes. You can have half South Asian half white people come out looking fully white OR fully south asian. An example is Michelle Khare, half north indian upper caste half white. Looks entirely Indian(punjabi type):

https://66.media.tumblr.com/65a2095e16e8032a28587cf802b933f9/tumblr_owfshxesw01wau9gyo1_400.jpg

[Thambi]

That's because very recent mixes(1-3 generations) are more likely to swing in one direct or another compared to older mixes. You can have half South Asian half white people come out looking fully white OR fully south asian. An example is Michelle Khare, half north indian upper caste half white. Looks entirely Indian(punjabi type):

https://66.media.tumblr.com/65a2095e16e8032a28587cf802b933f9/tumblr_owfshxesw01wau9gyo1_400.jpg

shes not half upper caste north indian. Her last name is khare and its a marathi name

[SharpFork]

shes not half upper caste north indian. Her last name is khare and its a marathi name
I't would be crazy is she was upper caste north Indian, I couldn't explain my looks if that were the case, the variation would be simply too much

[coolfrenchguy]

I have an incredibly low opinion of MyHeritage. They can't even give unmixed populations proper results so I doubt they'd give it to mixed ones.

Gedmatch, 23andme, AncestryDNA, G25 are much preferable.
they faking the results on purpose on the orders of the "judaised" cultural-marxist/frankfurt school puppeteers ,adding on purpose jewish and sepharadic ancestry where there is probaly none,they would want to make believe to the whites from european ancestry nazi-like mindset ,than they are caming from the balls of abraham,it's the same for 23andme,it's where that it's became very funny,you should to read this complete article from livescience

https://www.livescience.com/63997-dna-ancestry-test-results-explained.html
it's better to find an non american registrated commercial company,for your DNA test

gypsies are caming from india,from the north-west india area,centuries ago and in france for example ,the tzigane community called gitans than could been translated as travellers or bohemians ,have a strong med addmixture,they looks more european like morti figure of speach and more than the romanian gypsies called ROMS who could been very brown skinned,i know even a lot of words from the manouche slang,very easy to learn,manouche from the sanskrit word manushya
chourave=stealing
bouillave=fucking
bedave=smoking pot/joints or smoking
pillave=drinking alcoohol
becrave=scamming someone
marrave=punching someone
etc etc..

where the roms speak a total different language


the famous django reinhardt from the sinti/manouche branch/segment
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Django_Reinhardt_%28Gottlieb_07301%29.jpg/220px-Django_Reinhardt_%28Gottlieb_07301%29.jpg

[Trouble]

I't would be crazy is she was upper caste north Indian, I couldn't explain my looks if that were the case, the variation would be simply too much

No, Thambi even once said her father was from Delhi. He mustve forgotten.

[SharpFork]

No, Thambi even once said her father was from Delhi. He mustve forgotten.
Delhi is a city, what's her deep ancestry?

[Thambi]

No, Thambi even once said her father was from Delhi. He mustve forgotten.

yeah you're right. nvm he's from delhi. does feel like deja vu lol. btw ive seen khare being common in mh region so im not sure. technically banias are middle castes i guess since they're vaishyas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q4-VFy2AUA

[Mortimer]

Mortimer should better test his full Romani mother instead of wasting money on useless shit like Living DNA or full mt DNA sequence. We would at least have a confirmed genetic Romani who actually looks Indian.

There are many confirmed romani in the same southasian range like my mum who are twice as much or more then twice as much southasian as I am and they show up as relatives on genetic tests. My mum wouldnt be different or more then them. It also makes sense considering how much I am. And my mum doesnt want to test. And I tested so easy a conclusion can be drawn about my mum, because I tested. And many Roma who tested look indian and are 40-50% southasian on Myheritage for example Im 20% so that makes sense. They would probably score more southasian then my mum because I have also gypsy ancestry from my dad. Not all is from my mum.

[Trouble]

yeah you're right. nvm he's from delhi. does feel like deja vu lol. btw ive seen khare being common in mh region so im not sure. technically banias are middle castes i guess since they're vaishyas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q4-VFy2AUA

She is upper caste:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khare

[Trouble]

On gedmatch Romanian-B(Gypsy) is around 21% South Indian. Chamars are 66%. Perfectly aligns with Balkan gypsies being around 1/3rd South Asian.

[Trouble]

There are many confirmed romani in the same southasian range like my mum who are twice as much or more then twice as much southasian as I am and they show up as relatives on genetic tests. My mum wouldnt be different or more then them. It also makes sense considering how much I am. And my mum doesnt want to test. And I tested so easy a conclusion can be drawn about my mum, because I tested. And many Roma who tested look indian and are 40-50% southasian on Myheritage for example Im 20% so that makes sense. They would probably score more southasian then my mum because I have also gypsy ancestry from my dad. Not all is from my mum.

Myheritage is not reliable

[SharpFork]

She is upper caste:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khare
What's her euro side? She looking like this would be the equivalent of me having blonde/light brown hair and green eyes of my mother, it's hard to believe.

[Trouble]

What's her euro side? She looking like this would be the equivalent of me having blonde/light brown hair and green eyes of my mother, it's hard to believe.

NW Euro/generic American. She had blonde hair.

[SharpFork]

NW Euro/generic American. She had blonde hair.
Generic American is probably not pure NW but I don't think that alone would explain anything, it's kinda hard to really theorize, for all we know her Indian ancestry could be more ASI than we think.

Also what do you mean by blonde hair? The non-european definition(lighter than dark brown) or actual blonde hair?

[Trouble]

Generic American is probably not pure NW but I don't think that alone would explain anything, it's kinda hard to really theorize, for all we know her Indian ancestry could be more ASI than we think.

Also what do you mean by blonde hair? The non-european definition(lighter than dark brown) or actual blonde hair?

My bad, seems like dirty brown.

She has an upper caste name so is probably upper caste

[SharpFork]

My bad, seems like dirty brown.

She has an upper caste name so is probably upper caste

Sure but still that doesn't that much, ASI could still vary in 2 digits percent I'd imagine, regardless I still don't get what decides skin color in such interracial mixes, if general pigmentation is polygenic shouldn't the mix be more consistent? Is it consistent at least between siblings? It is between me and my sister, who has only a bit lighter hair and eye color(meaning you can actually start considering it dark brown)

[Thambi]

She is upper caste:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khare

no bro kayasths are basically middle castes. dont confuse with the brahmin-kshatriya dual status in the description. kayashtas were not that. kayasthas are basically vaishyas.

[Mortimer]

Myheritage is not reliable

Doesnt matter, it is the ratio of my southasian to the southasian of my DNA relatives which Im talking about. On 23andme all Gypsies are highly westasian, and it is again the same ratio for me as for the DNA relatives like on Myheritage. That means my mum wouldnt be any different, many gypsies tested many gypsies are on gedmatch. I have over 1.400 relatives on 23andme 90% of them are gypsies.

[Mortimer]

@Leto "Gypsies are not hate for their skin colour but for associal behaviour and crime"

To me it often looks like that Gypsies are hated for being gypsies. That is not only skin colour but it has a loose connection to it though. But there are people with dark skin colour who are not gypsies and who are not hated, and you can be a bit lighter like me and still be hated. They are hated because they are Gypsies. Thats how it looks like to me. Example I receive abusive comments for my video. Im civilised in my video and dont harm anyone. The only thing they know about me is that Im a Gypsy. And therefore I receive abusive comments. What else is the reason for the abusive comments? And being a gypsy is something you are by birth, and you cannot escape it. Similar as race in america or caste in india. You are always a gypsy if you are rich or smart doesnt matter. Like you are always black or always untouchable.

https://i.postimg.cc/D0vTp0Bn/getoutofourcountrygypsy.jpg

[Methuselah]

I would like to see what a Balkan Gypsy and Northern/Central European mix would look like. A full Bulgarian or Romanian Gypsy + a German or a Czech or maybe a Baltic person.
Probably closer to something like this?
https://i.ibb.co/4jhPGrT/putin-young-4.jpg

[Avicenna]

Doesnt matter, it is the ratio of my southasian to the southasian of my DNA relatives which Im talking about. On 23andme all Gypsies are highly westasian, and it is again the same ratio for me as for the DNA relatives like on Myheritage. That means my mum wouldnt be any different, many gypsies tested many gypsies are on gedmatch. I have over 1.400 relatives on 23andme 90% of them are gypsies.

Can you post some gypsy Harappa world results please ?

[Jana]

It actually would be relatively prevalent, Bangladeshi have something like 15% East Eurasian, a Sylhety could be a bit higher so maybe the guy would have 10% East Eurasian.

Yes. I have seen Sylhetis scoring 20-25% mongoloid total on Dodecad, and this kid looks fully mongoloid somehow. Funny because his father is generic south Indian looking guy with nothing mongoloid about him.
Father's mother does look SE Asian influenced, quite a lot, so I guess boy took after her.

[ixulescu]

@Leto "Gypsies are not hate for their skin colour but for associal behaviour and crime"

To me it often looks like that Gypsies are hated for being gypsies. That is not only skin colour but it has a loose connection to it though. But there are people with dark skin colour who are not gypsies and who are not hated, and you can be a bit lighter like me and still be hated. They are hated because they are Gypsies. Thats how it looks like to me. Example I receive abusive comments for my video. Im civilised in my video and dont harm anyone. The only thing they know about me is that Im a Gypsy. And therefore I receive abusive comments. What else is the reason for the abusive comments? And being a gypsy is something you are by birth, and you cannot escape it. Similar as race in america or caste in india. You are always a gypsy if you are rich or smart doesnt matter. Like you are always black or always untouchable.


This is leftist nonsense.

Gypsies are badly treated because they cheat, steal, beg, are dirty etc, not because they look different. Tatars in Romania look even more different than gypsies and had exactly the same social status as gypsies in the past (lowest level of servitude). But they lift themselves up and now they're socially no different than the average Romanian. Gypsies should do the same but they don't seem to want it.

Now of course it is true that socially well adjusted gypsies get occasional abuse, but it is rare. And it would be even rarer had gypsies manifested more desire for integration.

[Mortimer]

This is leftist nonsense.

Gypsies are badly treated because they cheat, steal, beg, are dirty etc, not because they look different. Tatars in Romania look even more different than gypsies and had exactly the same social status as gypsies in the past (lowest level of servitude). But they lift themselves up and now they're socially no different than the average Romanian. Gypsies should do the same but they don't seem to want it.

Now of course it is true that socially well adjusted gypsies get occasional abuse, but it is rare. And it would be even rarer had gypsies manifested more desire for integration.

It's neither left nor right I don't think liberal europeans like gypsies or are their friends it is not only because they look different tamils also look different but they are not gypsy it is because they are gypsy if you say it is because they are dirty you basically it is rightful discrimination that's the reason why they say that it means it is OK even necessary to attack gypsy

[Mortimer]

Can you post some gypsy Harappa world results please ?

I can send you kit numbers but I think I did but I'm not sure if it was you

[ixulescu]

It's neither left nor right I don't think liberal europeans like gypsies or are their friends it is not only because they look different tamils also look different but they are not gypsy it is because they are gypsy if you say it is because they are dirty you basically it is rightful discrimination that's the reason why they say that it means it is OK even necessary to attack gypsy

The leftist claim is that gypsies are poor because they are discriminated and not because their social culture is to blame. The rightist claim is exactly the opposite.

Neither are 100% true, but the rightist claim is closer to the truth and I explained why: Tatars in Romania had the same social status and nomadic lifestyle as gypsies and yet they successfully got out of poverty by completely changing their culture. The only downside is that they lost their Tatar identity - they consider themselves Romanian now - but this is not a big deal because Tatars, like gypsies, were/are an extremely mixed group to begin with. Realistically this is the only way out of poverty for gypsies as well.

[Mortimer]

The leftist claim is that gypsies are poor because they are discriminated and not because their social culture is to blame. The rightist claim is exactly the opposite.

Neither are 100% true, but the rightist claim is closer to the truth and I explained why: Tatars in Romania had the same social status and nomadic lifestyle as gypsies and yet they successfully got out of poverty by completely changing their culture. The only downside is that they lost their Tatar identity - they consider themselves Romanian now - but this is not a big deal because Tatars, like gypsies, were/are an extremely mixed group to begin with. Realistically this is the only way out of poverty for gypsies as well.

The rightist claim is also that they reject integration or assimilation with gypsies and view them as antithetical to european civilisation

[Avicenna]

I can send you kit numbers but I think I did but I'm not sure if it was you

Nope not me . Have you not created a thread about it ?

[Leto]

@Leto "Gypsies are not hate for their skin colour but for associal behaviour and crime"

Well, if you were healthier (and I'm not trying to put you down in any way) both physically and mentally, you would most likely find a wife and your children would be snow white as any other Austrian. You aren't even Gypsy culturally, maybe some remnants but not much. You don't speak any Romani and don't live their lifestyle.

[Leto]

Probably closer to something like this?
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/4jhPGrT/putin-young-4.jpg
Smart trolling, Shlomo.

[Leto]

The leftist claim is that gypsies are poor because they are discriminated and not because their social culture is to blame. The rightist claim is exactly the opposite.

Neither are 100% true, but the rightist claim is closer to the truth and I explained why: Tatars in Romania had the same social status and nomadic lifestyle as gypsies and yet they successfully got out of poverty by completely changing their culture. The only downside is that they lost their Tatar identity - they consider themselves Romanian now - but this is not a big deal because Tatars, like gypsies, were/are an extremely mixed group to begin with. Realistically this is the only way out of poverty for gypsies as well.
How numerous are the Tatars? What do they look like? I'd love to see some DNA results of them.

[Mortimer]

Nope not me . Have you not created a thread about it ?

I did a few times but don't keep track of the threads I posted im not sure if I posted Harappa world though or other calculators now I remember I sent the kit numbers to mexinol that mexican american guy not you

[Nomansman]

Nope not me . Have you not created a thread about it ?

You can just search for the thread about gypsie kits on this site. Such thread was made. The OP post on that thread had both balkan and spanish kits(althoguh some dont work anymore). I can even post some from middleeast, if you want.


Anyway, most gypsies from middleeast(iraq, turkey, balkans) seem to get around 22% SI on HW

[Leto]

A full Macedonian Ottoman Gypsy
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?295115-Balkan-Ottoman-Romani-DNA-results&highlight=Ottoman+Romani

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 29.44
2 East_Med 18.89
3 West_Asian 17.73
4 West_Med 15.29
5 Baltic 8.87
6 Red_Sea 4.16
7 North_Atlantic 3.84
8 Oceanian 0.86
9 East_Asian 0.59
10 Siberian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Tadjik 26.01
2 Pathan 26.64
3 Afghan_Pashtun 26.76
4 Turkmen 27.04
5 Tadjik 27.23
6 Turkish 27.55
7 Azeri 27.58
8 Iranian 28.46
9 Punjabi_Jat 28.69
10 Burusho 29.08
11 East_Sicilian 30.13
12 Central_Greek 30.22
13 Kurdish 30.29
14 Greek_Thessaly 30.36
15 Sindhi 30.64
16 Syrian 30.9
17 South_Italian 30.98
18 Ashkenazi 31.17
19 Kalash 31.2
20 Lebanese_Muslim 31.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.2% Central_Greek + 40.8% Dusadh @ 6.44
2 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Kshatriya @ 6.54

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 25.51
2 S-Indian 23.4
3 Baloch 16.5
4 Mediterranean 12.77
5 NE-Euro 10.19
6 SW-Asian 9.33
7 SE-Asian 1.2
8 American 0.52
9 Papuan 0.43
10 NE-Asian 0.07
11 E-African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 romanian-b (behar) 5.49
2 bene-israel-jew (behar) 18.14
3 pashtun (harappa) 21.73
4 turkmen (yunusbayev) 22.85
5 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 25.01
6 iraqi-arab (harappa) 25.64
7 turkish (harappa) 25.77
8 iranian (behar) 25.77
9 tajik (yunusbayev) 25.83
10 kashmiri (harappa) 25.91
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 25.95
12 iranian (harappa) 25.95
13 kurd (harappa) 26.09
14 up-muslim (harappa) 26.23
15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 26.71
16 azeri (harappa) 27.02
17 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 27.07
18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 27.09
19 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 27.51
20 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 27.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.9% romanian-b (behar) + 21.1% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.67
2 60.7% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 39.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.28
3 57.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 42.1% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 3.44
4 87.5% romanian-b (behar) + 12.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.59
5 64.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 35.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.6
6 51.5% ashkenazi (harappa) + 48.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.61
7 61.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.1% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 3.66
8 86.3% romanian-b (behar) + 13.7% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 3.67
9 62.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37.5% kurumba (metspalu) @ 3.78
10 61.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.3% velama (reich) @ 3.78
11 63.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 36.9% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 3.84
12 59.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.9% tamil (harappa) @ 3.89
13 59.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.2% andhra-pradesh (harappa) @ 3.93
14 61.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.8% sinhalese (harappa) @ 3.94
15 90.4% romanian-b (behar) + 9.6% kerala-christian (harappa) @ 3.95
16 64.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 35.8% vysya (reich) @ 3.97
17 63% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 3.99
18 89.8% romanian-b (behar) + 10.2% sindhi (hgdp) @ 4
19 91% romanian-b (behar) + 9% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 4
20 91.7% romanian-b (behar) + 8.3% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 4

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 25.75
2 South_Asian 23.67
3 Gedrosia 15.3
4 Atlantic_Med 13.65
5 Southwest_Asian 11.22
6 North_European 9.18
7 Southeast_Asian 0.97
8 East_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 20.3
2 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 25.37
3 Iranians (Behar) 26.97
4 Iranian (Dodecad) 27.5
5 Turkish (Dodecad) 28.74
6 Turks (Behar) 28.89
7 Kurd (Dodecad) 29.25
8 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 29.52
9 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 29.63
10 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 29.81
11 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 29.94
12 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 29.94
13 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.06
14 Syrians (Behar) 30.07
15 Lebanese (Behar) 30.11
16 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 30.17
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 30.29
18 Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.83
19 Greek (Dodecad) 31.88
20 Jordanians (Behar) 31.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.3% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 38.7% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.63
2 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.2
3 53.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 46.6% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.26
4 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.47
5 52.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 47.2% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.48
6 61% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.55
7 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.6
8 59.6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.61
9 59.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 40.9% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.63
10 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.64
11 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.68
12 63.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 36.6% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.73
13 60.2% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 39.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.79
14 59.6% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.86
15 60.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39.1% Muslim (Metspalu) @ 4.91
16 62.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 37.1% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.93
17 61.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.6% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 4.95
18 62.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.3% Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.95
19 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.95
20 61.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.9% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.96

[Leto]

A full Macedonian Ottoman Gypsy
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?295115-Balkan-Ottoman-Romani-DNA-results&highlight=Ottoman+Romani

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 29.44
2 East_Med 18.89
3 West_Asian 17.73
4 West_Med 15.29
5 Baltic 8.87
6 Red_Sea 4.16
7 North_Atlantic 3.84
8 Oceanian 0.86
9 East_Asian 0.59
10 Siberian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Tadjik 26.01
2 Pathan 26.64
3 Afghan_Pashtun 26.76
4 Turkmen 27.04
5 Tadjik 27.23
6 Turkish 27.55
7 Azeri 27.58
8 Iranian 28.46
9 Punjabi_Jat 28.69
10 Burusho 29.08
11 East_Sicilian 30.13
12 Central_Greek 30.22
13 Kurdish 30.29
14 Greek_Thessaly 30.36
15 Sindhi 30.64
16 Syrian 30.9
17 South_Italian 30.98
18 Ashkenazi 31.17
19 Kalash 31.2
20 Lebanese_Muslim 31.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.2% Central_Greek + 40.8% Dusadh @ 6.44
2 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Kshatriya @ 6.54

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 25.51
2 S-Indian 23.4
3 Baloch 16.5
4 Mediterranean 12.77
5 NE-Euro 10.19
6 SW-Asian 9.33
7 SE-Asian 1.2
8 American 0.52
9 Papuan 0.43
10 NE-Asian 0.07
11 E-African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 romanian-b (behar) 5.49
2 bene-israel-jew (behar) 18.14
3 pashtun (harappa) 21.73
4 turkmen (yunusbayev) 22.85
5 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 25.01
6 iraqi-arab (harappa) 25.64
7 turkish (harappa) 25.77
8 iranian (behar) 25.77
9 tajik (yunusbayev) 25.83
10 kashmiri (harappa) 25.91
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 25.95
12 iranian (harappa) 25.95
13 kurd (harappa) 26.09
14 up-muslim (harappa) 26.23
15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 26.71
16 azeri (harappa) 27.02
17 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 27.07
18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 27.09
19 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 27.51
20 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 27.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.9% romanian-b (behar) + 21.1% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.67
2 60.7% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 39.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.28
3 57.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 42.1% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 3.44
4 87.5% romanian-b (behar) + 12.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.59
5 64.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 35.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.6
6 51.5% ashkenazi (harappa) + 48.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.61
7 61.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.1% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 3.66
8 86.3% romanian-b (behar) + 13.7% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 3.67
9 62.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37.5% kurumba (metspalu) @ 3.78
10 61.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.3% velama (reich) @ 3.78
11 63.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 36.9% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 3.84
12 59.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.9% tamil (harappa) @ 3.89
13 59.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.2% andhra-pradesh (harappa) @ 3.93
14 61.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.8% sinhalese (harappa) @ 3.94
15 90.4% romanian-b (behar) + 9.6% kerala-christian (harappa) @ 3.95
16 64.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 35.8% vysya (reich) @ 3.97
17 63% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 3.99
18 89.8% romanian-b (behar) + 10.2% sindhi (hgdp) @ 4
19 91% romanian-b (behar) + 9% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 4
20 91.7% romanian-b (behar) + 8.3% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 4

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 25.75
2 South_Asian 23.67
3 Gedrosia 15.3
4 Atlantic_Med 13.65
5 Southwest_Asian 11.22
6 North_European 9.18
7 Southeast_Asian 0.97
8 East_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 20.3
2 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 25.37
3 Iranians (Behar) 26.97
4 Iranian (Dodecad) 27.5
5 Turkish (Dodecad) 28.74
6 Turks (Behar) 28.89
7 Kurd (Dodecad) 29.25
8 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 29.52
9 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 29.63
10 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 29.81
11 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 29.94
12 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 29.94
13 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.06
14 Syrians (Behar) 30.07
15 Lebanese (Behar) 30.11
16 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 30.17
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 30.29
18 Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.83
19 Greek (Dodecad) 31.88
20 Jordanians (Behar) 31.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.3% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 38.7% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.63
2 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.2
3 53.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 46.6% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.26
4 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.47
5 52.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 47.2% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.48
6 61% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.55
7 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.6
8 59.6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.61
9 59.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 40.9% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.63
10 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.64
11 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.68
12 63.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 36.6% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.73
13 60.2% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 39.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.79
14 59.6% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.86
15 60.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39.1% Muslim (Metspalu) @ 4.91
16 62.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 37.1% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.93
17 61.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.6% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 4.95
18 62.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.3% Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.95
19 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.95
20 61.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.9% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.96

[Leto]

His coordinates

RR_scaled,0.091058,0.057885,-0.078818,0.01938,-0.022773,0.015897,-0.00329,0.003923,0.020248,0.02041,-0.000487,-0.001349,0.000892,0.012937,-0.013843,-0.001856,0.011735,0.001774,0.003142,0.007379,-0.002121,-0.003462,-0.001972,-0.003374,-0.000838

"fit": 1.8972,
"Punjabi_Lahore": 38.33,
"Greek": 36.67,
"Iraqi_Jew": 25

[Avicenna]

I can send you kit numbers but I think I did but I'm not sure if it was you

Nope not me . Have you not created a thread about it ?

[Avicenna]

A full Macedonian Ottoman Gypsy
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?295115-Balkan-Ottoman-Romani-DNA-results&highlight=Ottoman+Romani

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 29.44
2 East_Med 18.89
3 West_Asian 17.73
4 West_Med 15.29
5 Baltic 8.87
6 Red_Sea 4.16
7 North_Atlantic 3.84
8 Oceanian 0.86
9 East_Asian 0.59
10 Siberian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Tadjik 26.01
2 Pathan 26.64
3 Afghan_Pashtun 26.76
4 Turkmen 27.04
5 Tadjik 27.23
6 Turkish 27.55
7 Azeri 27.58
8 Iranian 28.46
9 Punjabi_Jat 28.69
10 Burusho 29.08
11 East_Sicilian 30.13
12 Central_Greek 30.22
13 Kurdish 30.29
14 Greek_Thessaly 30.36
15 Sindhi 30.64
16 Syrian 30.9
17 South_Italian 30.98
18 Ashkenazi 31.17
19 Kalash 31.2
20 Lebanese_Muslim 31.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.2% Central_Greek + 40.8% Dusadh @ 6.44
2 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Kshatriya @ 6.54

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 25.51
2 S-Indian 23.4
3 Baloch 16.5
4 Mediterranean 12.77
5 NE-Euro 10.19
6 SW-Asian 9.33
7 SE-Asian 1.2
8 American 0.52
9 Papuan 0.43
10 NE-Asian 0.07
11 E-African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 romanian-b (behar) 5.49
2 bene-israel-jew (behar) 18.14
3 pashtun (harappa) 21.73
4 turkmen (yunusbayev) 22.85
5 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 25.01
6 iraqi-arab (harappa) 25.64
7 turkish (harappa) 25.77
8 iranian (behar) 25.77
9 tajik (yunusbayev) 25.83
10 kashmiri (harappa) 25.91
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 25.95
12 iranian (harappa) 25.95
13 kurd (harappa) 26.09
14 up-muslim (harappa) 26.23
15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 26.71
16 azeri (harappa) 27.02
17 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 27.07
18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 27.09
19 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 27.51
20 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 27.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.9% romanian-b (behar) + 21.1% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.67
2 60.7% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 39.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.28
3 57.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 42.1% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 3.44
4 87.5% romanian-b (behar) + 12.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.59
5 64.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 35.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.6
6 51.5% ashkenazi (harappa) + 48.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.61
7 61.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.1% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 3.66
8 86.3% romanian-b (behar) + 13.7% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 3.67
9 62.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37.5% kurumba (metspalu) @ 3.78
10 61.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.3% velama (reich) @ 3.78
11 63.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 36.9% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 3.84
12 59.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.9% tamil (harappa) @ 3.89
13 59.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.2% andhra-pradesh (harappa) @ 3.93
14 61.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.8% sinhalese (harappa) @ 3.94
15 90.4% romanian-b (behar) + 9.6% kerala-christian (harappa) @ 3.95
16 64.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 35.8% vysya (reich) @ 3.97
17 63% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 3.99
18 89.8% romanian-b (behar) + 10.2% sindhi (hgdp) @ 4
19 91% romanian-b (behar) + 9% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 4
20 91.7% romanian-b (behar) + 8.3% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 4

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 25.75
2 South_Asian 23.67
3 Gedrosia 15.3
4 Atlantic_Med 13.65
5 Southwest_Asian 11.22
6 North_European 9.18
7 Southeast_Asian 0.97
8 East_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 20.3
2 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 25.37
3 Iranians (Behar) 26.97
4 Iranian (Dodecad) 27.5
5 Turkish (Dodecad) 28.74
6 Turks (Behar) 28.89
7 Kurd (Dodecad) 29.25
8 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 29.52
9 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 29.63
10 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 29.81
11 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 29.94
12 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 29.94
13 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.06
14 Syrians (Behar) 30.07
15 Lebanese (Behar) 30.11
16 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 30.17
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 30.29
18 Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.83
19 Greek (Dodecad) 31.88
20 Jordanians (Behar) 31.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.3% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 38.7% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.63
2 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.2
3 53.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 46.6% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.26
4 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.47
5 52.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 47.2% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.48
6 61% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.55
7 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.6
8 59.6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.61
9 59.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 40.9% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.63
10 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.64
11 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.68
12 63.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 36.6% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.73
13 60.2% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 39.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.79
14 59.6% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.86
15 60.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39.1% Muslim (Metspalu) @ 4.91
16 62.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 37.1% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.93
17 61.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.6% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 4.95
18 62.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.3% Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.95
19 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.95
20 61.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.9% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.96
His quote regarding his phenotype

"Yeah I know my Ydna is very Indian and one of the most frequent for Romani. No the SA is not visible on me. In my family and tribe in general the Euro-MENA phenotypes are the majority."

[Leto]

Southern Indians are 65-70% South Asian on Eurogenes. He is basically 30%.

[Avicenna]

Southern Indians are 65-70% South Asian on Eurogenes. He is basically 30%.

Have you got any more gypsy kits ? Could I see their Harappa world results since that's the one we are familliar with ?

[Nomansman]

Have you got any more gypsy kits ? Could I see their Harappa world results since that's the one we are familliar with ?

Dude, i just told you.
Search for the thread with gypsie kits.

But anyway, heres the link:


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?210950-Any-Gypsy-Romani-GEDmatch-kit-numbers

[ixulescu]

How numerous are the Tatars? What do they look like? I'd love to see some DNA results of them.

Nobody really knows because they are fully assimilated and mixed with Romanians (only Tatars in Dobrogea are not assimilated, but those are a small fraction of the overall numbers). Probably around 200k are closer to their original Black Sea steppe mixture and another 1 million are Romanians mixed some amount of Tatar.

Their looks ranges from Central Asian (though not many of those are in Romania) to Romanian with steppe eyes.

[Avicenna]

Nobody really knows because they are fully assimilated and mixed with Romanians (only Tatars in Dobrogea are not assimilated, but those are a small fraction of the overall numbers). Probably around 200k are closer to their original Black Sea steppe mixture and another 1 million are Romanians mixed some amount of Tatar.

Their looks ranges from Central Asian (though not many of those are in Romania) to Romanian with steppe eyes.

I've seen a good amount of Romanians with turanid influenced eyes no wonder .

[ixulescu]

The rightist claim is also that they reject integration or assimilation with gypsies and view them as antithetical to european civilisation

But don't gypsies reject integration/assimilation?

Gypsies in Romania are very derisive of gypsies who have successfully assimilated.

[ixulescu]

I've seen a good amount of Romanians with turanid influenced eyes no wonder .

for sure they are many. however it's important to note that steppe itself extends to Southern Romania. So hooded eyes in the region were common even prior turanid expansion.

[Mortimer]

But don't gypsies reject integration/assimilation?

Gypsies in Romania are very derisive of gypsies who have successfully assimilated.
I don't know that gypsies are not one person I don't have knowledge about what other gypsies or gypsy groups think. Also in my opinion assimilation does not work without discrimination too they have to give up everything which makes them themselves like their identity and still will be discriminated similar as spanish conversos in democracy they can be who they are but still Romanian and not foreign also tatars for some reason are viewed not as foreign Tatar features are considered native Romanian features gypsy features are considered foreign and not Romanian

[ixulescu]

I don't know that gypsies are not one person I don't have knowledge about what other gypsies or gypsy groups think. Also in my opinion assimilation does not work without discrimination too they have to give up everything which makes them themselves like their identity and still will be discriminated similar as spanish conversos in democracy they can be who they are but still Romanian and not foreign also tatars for some reason are viewed not as foreign Tatar features are considered native Romanian features gypsy features are considered foreign and not Romanian

bullshit, these are weak excuses.

Romanians don't care about blood relations, as simple as that. Gypsies can integrate if them want to, but most don't.

Look at the pic below, these are Romanians. how different would gypsies be, once they mix a little with Romanians? they would fit right in this group:

https://scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s640x640/67575624_730101657419606_4998149158373758011_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=n_u35gFtKl0AX9-8qzy&oh=0a8fc3954e89626e048383ea54e647a8&oe=5E8B1CEF

[Leto]

Seya looks like a Tatarka :D

[Blondie]

Gypsies don't want to be integrated, in Hungary if you say for a gypsie "you are hungarian" they will be angry that "i'm gypsie not hungarian". About discrimination... there is problem with a minority not with the majority so i don't think the majority is a wrong in this question. Gypsies are the most hated ethnic group and it has serious reason.

[Mortimer]

bullshit, these are weak excuses.

Romanians don't care about blood relations, as simple as that. Gypsies can integrate if them want to, but most don't.

Look at the pic below, these are Romanians. how different would gypsies be, once they mix a little with Romanians? they would fit right in this group:

https://scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s640x640/67575624_730101657419606_4998149158373758011_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=n_u35gFtKl0AX9-8qzy&oh=0a8fc3954e89626e048383ea54e647a8&oe=5E8B1CEF

They should integrate and increase their civilisational sophistication I'm not saying they should not it would benefit everyone if there are no gypsy slums and crime the gypsies themselves and the others but I think that people only in rare cases want to mix with gypsies and there are 20 million gypsies that's many I'm not sure european want that they mix it would affect European genes maybe the status quo is OK for them it means segregation it is different if one assimilate or 20 million I think gypsy is a unsolved question

[Leto]

Gypsies don't want to be integrated, in Hungary if you say for a gypsie "you are hungarian" they will be angry that "i'm gypsie not hungarian". About discrimination... there is problem with a minority not with the majority so i don't think the majority is a wrong in this question. Gypsies are the most hated ethnic group and it has serious reason.
In leftism minorities are never wrong, especially brown ones. If they're doing badly, it's the majority's fault.

[Blondie]

In leftism minorities are never wrong, especially brown ones. If they're doing badly, it's the majority's fault.

Indeed, they live in fantasy world, but interesting non of hungarian liberals send their kids to a gypsie majority school...

[Mortimer]

In leftism minorities are never wrong, especially brown ones. If they're doing badly, it's the majority's fault.

I don't think gypsy benefit much from leftism only very few leftists include gypsy in their minority protection not mainstream leftists who are similar to mainstream conservatives

[ixulescu]

Seya looks like a Tatarka :D

a little bit, but she looks more Romanian and her ancestry is Romanian.
I don't think prior to joining this forum she ever heard this label.

[Blondie]

They should integrate and increase their civilisational sophistication I'm not saying they should not it would benefit everyone if there are no gypsy slums and crime the gypsies themselves and the others but I think that people only in rare cases want to mix with gypsies and there are 20 million gypsies that's many I'm not sure european want that they mix it would affect European genes maybe the status quo is OK for them it means segregation it is different if one assimilate or 20 million I think gypsy is a unsolved question

Morti let's face the facts, gypsies live with us since medieval age (700-800 years) and they are still not integrated into the society and it's not our fault.

[ixulescu]

They should integrate and increase their civilisational sophistication I'm not saying they should not it would benefit everyone if there are no gypsy slums and crime the gypsies themselves and the others but I think that people only in rare cases want to mix with gypsies and there are 20 million gypsies that's many I'm not sure european want that they mix it would affect European genes maybe the status quo is OK for them it means segregation it is different if one assimilate or 20 million I think gypsy is a unsolved question

20 million gypsies in Europe is another nonsense.

there are many Europeans with non-european admixture (west asian or north african), admixture unrelated to gypsies. In Romania, pro-Roma NGOs are trying to put Tatars in the gypsy totals (based on similar west asian admixture). This makes no sense at all.

Confusing the facts is not going to help gypsies.

[Leto]

20 million gypsies in Europe is another nonsense.

there are many Europeans with non-european admixture (west asian or north african), admixture unrelated to gypsies. In Romania, pro-Roma NGOs are trying to put Tatars in the gypsy totals (based on similar west asian admixture). This makes no sense at all.

Confusing the facts is not going to help gypsies.
A lot of SE European Roma are now in Western member states like Germany, Spain, Italy, England (no longer a member but nothing has changed yet).

[Kyp]

Indeed, they live in fantasy world, but interesting non of hungarian liberals send their kids to a gypsie majority school...

Same in Germany. Green voters are notorious for sending their kids to all white schools in Berlin lol.

[lameduck]

Hate for gypsies is mostly because of their lack of integration,not saying looks don't play a role in it, but its secondary. If gypsies were contributing to society and producing doctors,engineers,artists etc at greater per capital than natives, they would be model minority.

[Kyp]

Double

[Leto]

South Asian admixture is actually very foreign in Europe. Except for 1-2% on Gedmatch which is most likely unrelated to India it's normal absent from Russia to France and from Greece to Norway.

[ixulescu]

A lot of SE European Roma are now in Western member states like Germany, Spain, Italy, England (no longer a member but nothing has changed yet).

It appears to me that Gypsies who moved to Western Europe are even less integrated than in Eastern Europe, despite the barrage of lecturing in human rights from the West onto East.

[Leto]

It appears to me that Gypsies who moved to Western Europe are even less integrated than in Eastern Europe, despite the barrage of lecturing in human rights from the West onto East.
At least you've gotten rid of a great deal of them, haha.

[Blondie]

Hate for gypsies is mostly because of their lack of integration,not saying looks don't play a role in it, but its secondary. If gypsies were contributing to society and producing doctors,engineers,artists etc at greater per capital than natives, they would be model minority.

Their look doesn't matter, interesting east asians looks also different (more different) and no one have problem with them. Look this video from 0:40


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w4vMj4Bpao

Gypsies are primitive and violent.

[Dorian]

We should integrate them ,they are lost indoeuropeans..

https://d1hlpam123zqko.cloudfront.net/371/278/067/-329996997-1teqpc2-i8826i374trnde5/original/avatar.jpg

[Trouble]

His coordinates

RR_scaled,0.091058,0.057885,-0.078818,0.01938,-0.022773,0.015897,-0.00329,0.003923,0.020248,0.02041,-0.000487,-0.001349,0.000892,0.012937,-0.013843,-0.001856,0.011735,0.001774,0.003142,0.007379,-0.002121,-0.003462,-0.001972,-0.003374,-0.000838

"fit": 1.8972,
"Punjabi_Lahore": 38.33,
"Greek": 36.67,
"Iraqi_Jew": 25

You need a low caste group

[ixulescu]

We should integrate them ,they are lost indoeuropeans..


it doesn't seem they want to. and they have to want it hard, because they're still going to take some racist shit even when integrated.

[SharpFork]

South Asian admixture is actually very foreign in Europe. Except for 1-2% on Gedmatch which is most likely unrelated to India it's normal absent from Russia to France and from Greece to Norway.
And the funny thing is that if you mixed all Gypsies in 1939 Europe or even double that amount with the surroding population South Asian admixture would have gone up by... 0.08% to 0.16% on average, that's how few Romas existed in Europe prior to their explosive growth in second postwar.

[Tommie]

We should integrate them ,they are lost indoeuropeans..
Romanians have made numerous attempts to integrate them, to no avail.

I'd rather they gtfo.

[Leto]

You need a low caste group
That isn't my model, I copied it from the thread. You can run the coords yourself.

[Tommie]

-double post-

[ixulescu]

Romanians have made numerous attempts to integrate them, to no avail.

I'd rather they GTFO.

most will remain though, so integration is the only way.

there was progress during communism and sadly a lot of regression afterwards.

[Leto]

And the funny thing is that if you mixed all Gypsies in 1939 Europe or even double that amount with the surroding population South Asian admixture would have gone up by... 0.08% to 0.16% on average, that's how few Romas existed in Europe prior to their explosive growth in second postwar.
Yeah, I'm sure a hundred years ago they weren't even a thing in most places. If the assimilation process had started back then, by now they would be almost gone. But as you see even WW2 and 50 years of communism (70 years in the Soviet Union) still didn't crush them. Even in Franco's Spain (1939-1975) assimilation largely failed, though I hear in Spain their birth rates are lower than in the Balkans.

[Mortimer]

20 million gypsies in Europe is another nonsense.

there are many Europeans with non-european admixture (west asian or north african), admixture unrelated to gypsies. In Romania, pro-Roma NGOs are trying to put Tatars in the gypsy totals (based on similar west asian admixture). This makes no sense at all.

Confusing the facts is not going to help gypsies.

You Romanians contradict yourself. Sometimes you guys say there are much more gypsies then officially and they are a threat to romanians, and now you say there are only a few gypsies who are not a threat just because you want to lower their numbers. The only consisentency behind your arguments is that you hate on gypsies or are against them. If all gypsies declared themselfes romanians I wouldnt mind Im not a preservationist but they still wouldnt be romanians. Because many already do and they are still gypsies. Many say they are romanians but they are still gypsies and tatars when they say they are romanians they are not foreign and tatar features are considered native.

[Mortimer]

it doesn't seem they want to. and they have to want it hard, because they're still going to take some racist shit even when integrated.

If integrated means or assimilated that they say they are romanians and work many are integrated or assimilated. they are romanian-orthodox, they speak romanian and work in lower class manual labour like kiosk shop assistant or something like that they are not lawyers or doctors though. They are still gypsies though. I think 20% of gypsies are hardcore criminals and beggars etc. But they are very visible. But all of them are gypsies.

[SharpFork]

You Romanians contradict yourself. Sometimes you guys say there are much more gypsies then officially and they are a threat to romanians, and now you say there are only a few gypsies who are not a threat just because you want to lower their numbers. The only consisentency behind your arguments is that you hate on gypsies or are against them. If all gypsies declared themselfes romanians I wouldnt mind Im not a preservationist but they still wouldnt be romanians. Because many already do and they are still gypsies. Many say they are romanians but they are still gypsies and tatars when they say they are romanians they are not foreign and tatar features are considered native.
Be they 8 or 20 million they still multiplied at a rate many times faster than all other Europeans in the last 2-3 generations and to this day they have an higher fertility rate. In Bulgaria Roma have 2.5-3 times the fertility rate of local Bulgarians, in Romania also triple as the Romanian levels and similar values for Hungary as well.

It's evident that it doesn't matter what the current population is, it's still grew incredibly fast and is going to grow further incredibly fast, all while the community itself is plagued by rather self-inflicted misery, criminality and squalor.

[SharpFork]

If integrated means or assimilated that they say they are romanians and work many are integrated or assimilated. they are romanian-orthodox, they speak romanian and work in lower class manual labour like kiosk shop assistant or something like that they are not lawyers or doctors though. They are still gypsies though. I think 20% of gypsies are hardcore criminals and beggars etc. But they are very visible. But all of them are gypsies.
Speaking the local language is not a sign of integration, it's still the case that they preserve their separated community, have higher rates of school dropouts, higher rates of teen pregnancy, lower living standards etc.

I'm pretty sure everyone everywhere would prefer if the Roma community spoke mainly their Romani languages if their community was 2-3 times smaller(basically if it grew at a normal but still faster rate using pre-WW2 numbers) and if they acted like most all other minorities.

[Mortimer]

The thing is it doesn't matter how many there are, be they 8 or 20 million they still multiplied at a rate many times faster than all other Europeans in the last 2-3 generations and to this day they have an higher fertility rate. In Bulgaria Roma have 2.5-3 times the fertility rate of local Bulgarians, in Romania also triple as the Romanian levels and similar values for Hungary as well.

It's evident that it doesn't matter what the current population is, it's still grew incredibly fast and is going to grow further incredibly fast, all while the community itself is plagued by rather self-inflicted misery, criminality and squalor.

They do multiply at a higher rate then other europeans.

[Mortimer]

Speaking the local language is not a sign of integration, it's still the case that they preserve their separated community, have higher rates of school dropouts, higher rates of teen pregnancy, lower living standards etc.

I'm pretty sure everyone everywhere would prefer if the Roma community spoke mainly their Romani languages if their community was 2-3 times smaller(basically if it grew at a normal but still faster rate using pre-WW2 numbers) and if they acted like most all other minorities.

This is when you take them as a whole, and for this are some subsets responsible many and I say MANY roma do not have more then 1 or 2 children.

[Mortimer]

Speaking the local language is not a sign of integration, it's still the case that they preserve their separated community, have higher rates of school dropouts, higher rates of teen pregnancy, lower living standards etc.

I'm pretty sure everyone everywhere would prefer if the Roma community spoke mainly their Romani languages if their community was 2-3 times smaller(basically if it grew at a normal but still faster rate using pre-WW2 numbers) and if they acted like most all other minorities.

If they say they are romanians they do not keep their seperate community though. They are kept seperate and seen as foreign. Thats the difference. If they speak romanian, and identify as romanian they technically shouldnt be any different then chav romanians, or chav british who drop out of school. And many do not have many children. I dont have any. My sister doesnt have any. Most of my relatives have 1.

[SharpFork]

This is when you take them as a whole, and for this are some subsets responsible many and I say MANY roma do not have more then 1 or 2 children.

If they say they are romanians they do not keep their seperate community though. They are kept seperate and seen as foreign. Thats the difference. If they speak romanian, and identify as romanian they technically shouldnt be any different then chav romanians, or chav british who drop out of school. And many do not have many children. I dont have any. My sister doesnt have any. Most of my relatives have 1.
Look, stats don't lie, if you and your family have few children, this means someone else is having more children than the average to offset your statistical input.

Also if those that don't keep a separate identity and intermix with Romanians and other simply stop being Roma, but somehow the community is still exponentially growing, criminality, unemployement, living standards are still bad for those than don't

[Mortimer]

Look, stats don't lie, if you and your family have few children, this means someone else is having more children than the average to offset your statistical input.

Also if those that don't keep a separate identity and intermix with Romanians and other simply stop being Roma, but somehow the community is still exponentially growing, criminality, unemployement, living standards are still bad for those than don't

This is very incorrect. You dont simply stop being roma. You cannot just stop being Roma. Thats why I count all roma as a whole, and then the stats would look different.

[ixulescu]

Be they 8 or 20 million they still multiplied at a rate many times faster than all other Europeans in the last 2-3 generations and to this day they have an higher fertility rate. In Bulgaria Roma have 2.5-3 times the fertility rate of local Bulgarians, in Romania also triple as the Romanian levels and similar values for Hungary as well.


This is not true for Romania. In Romania gypsy women fertility rate is below replacement (below 2) and has been like that for 2 decades. It is slightly higher than that of Romanian women, but gypsies also have higher death rates and lower life expectancy.

The only reason why the number of gypsies rises in the statistics is because mixed people prefer to declare themselves as gypsy instead of Romanian in order to access the more generous state welfare (which has benefits specific to gypsies, like maternity services, state sponsored scholarships etc).

[Leto]

This is not true for Romania. In Romania gypsy women fertility rate is below replacement (below 2) and has been like that for 2 decades. It is slightly higher than that of Romanian women, but gypsies also have higher death rates and lower life expectancy.

That's surprising if true. I wonder what Nurzat would have to say about it :)

[ixulescu]

You Romanians contradict yourself. Sometimes you guys say there are much more gypsies then officially and they are a threat to romanians, and now you say there are only a few gypsies who are not a threat just because you want to lower their numbers. The only consisentency behind your arguments is that you hate on gypsies or are against them. If all gypsies declared themselfes romanians I wouldnt mind Im not a preservationist but they still wouldnt be romanians. Because many already do and they are still gypsies. Many say they are romanians but they are still gypsies and tatars when they say they are romanians they are not foreign and tatar features are considered native.

The reason why Romanians dislike an increased number of gypsies are the problems the gypsy community brings, which I don't have to list here again and again.

IMO the best estimates for the gypsy population are the census numbers. They might not be very precise, but nor is the definition of who is a gypsy.

[Damianoaussie]

Classify me plz;
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315969-Classify-me

[ixulescu]

That's surprising if true. I wonder what Nurzat would have to say about it :)

you found the best source of accurate information right there lol


I posted this statistic several times together with the source.

[nittionia]

Romani are cool

[ixulescu]

Romani are cool

Romani label is not cool, but racist, just like Bohemian - because they create a deliberate confusion between gypsies and Eastern European ethnic groups un-related to gypsies. They basically want to paint gypsies as Eastern Europeans, not belonging in the West.

There were hundreds of other possible labels, if calling a gypsy "gypsy" is suddenly not PC anymore. Options like Sinti, Dom, Manouche etc are far better.

[Leto]

Romani label is not cool, but racist, just like Bohemian - because they create a deliberate confusion between gypsies and Eastern European ethnic groups un-related to gypsies. They basically want to paint gypsies as Eastern Europeans, not belonging in the West.

There were hundreds of other possible labels, if calling a gypsy "gypsy" is suddenly not PC anymore. Options like Sinti, Dom, Manouche etc are far better.
Yes, it sounds too similar to Romanian and Roman. Tsigan and variations thereof is the traditional term.

[nittionia]

Romani label is not cool, but racist, just like Bohemian - because they create a deliberate confusion between gypsies and Eastern European ethnic groups un-related to gypsies.

There were hundreds of other possible labels, if calling a gypsy "gypsy" is suddenly not PC anymore. Options like Sinti, Dom, Manouche etc are far better.

I can see the label problem, especially in eastern Europe

[SharpFork]

This is not true for Romania. In Romania gypsy women fertility rate is below replacement (below 2) and has been like that for 2 decades. It is slightly higher than that of Romanian women, but gypsies also have higher death rates and lower life expectancy.

The only reason why the number of gypsies rises in the statistics is because mixed people prefer to declare themselves as gypsy instead of Romanian in order to access the more generous state welfare (which has benefits specific to gypsies, like maternity services, state sponsored scholarships etc).

http://humangeographies.org.ro/articles/41/4_1_10_Preda.pdf

[ixulescu]

http://humangeographies.org.ro/articles/41/4_1_10_Preda.pdf

the figure given there is 3.3 children per gypsy woman in Oltenia, which is nowhere near your claim of 3 times the fertility rates of Romanian women.

also this figure is not representative for the fertility rate of gypsy women in Romania, because the nomadism in Oltenia is higher than in other regions, which results in higher fertility rates in Oltenia.

like I said, average fertility rate of Romanian gypsy women is slightly below 2, in other words, below replacement. this trend was preserved even among Romanian gypsies that have migrated, with an average fertility rate in Italy of 2.4 children per women IIRC. Former Yugo gypsies had much higher fertility rates in the same study.

[SharpFork]

the figure given there is 3.3 children per gypsy woman in Oltenia, which is nowhere near your claim of 3 times the fertility rates of Romanian women.

also this figure is not representative for the fertility rate of gypsy women in Romania, because the nomadism in Oltenia is higher than in other regions, which results in higher fertility rates in Oltenia.

like I said, average fertility rate of Romanian gypsy women is slightly below 2, in other words, below replacement. this trend was preserved even among Romanian gypsies that have migrated, with an average fertility rate in Italy of 2.4 children per women IIRC. Former Yugo gypsies had much higher fertility rates in the same study.
Do you have a source for your figure for non-immigrant gypsies? I used what I could find and it didn't contradict other figures, but I underestimate current Romanian fertility rates as I thought they also were as low as many other East Euro countries.

[Leto]

You need a low caste group
I'm using Creoda's model

Target: RR_scaled
Distance: 2.6547% / 0.02654711
39.6 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
29.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
20.6 Armenia_EBA
6.0 Corded_Ware_Baltic
4.0 Baltic_LTU_Narva
0.6 Levant_N

Target: RR_scaled
Distance: 2.5949% / 0.02594923
39.4 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
27.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.8 Armenia_EBA
10.0 UKR_Dereivka_I_En2
1.6 Baltic_LTU_Narva
1.2 Levant_N
0.4 UKR_Trypillia

Target: RR_scaled
Distance: 2.6663% / 0.02666308
39.6 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
30.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
20.8 Armenia_EBA
5.2 Baltic_LTU_Narva
3.6 Corded_Ware_Baltic_early
0.2 Han
0.2 Levant_N

[Leto]

Target: RR_scaled
Distance: 2.7014% / 0.02701405
42.4 Greek_Thessaly
33.6 Chamar
24.0 Iranian_Lor

Literally 1/3 North Indian Dalit (Chamars are 75-80% South_Asian on Eurogenes).