Dodecad k12b south, west and central asian results

[Halgurd]

The thing is, western turks don't really differ that much from eastern and central turks


West Anatolian Turk (from Adapazarı)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 25.54
2 East_Med 22.28
3 West_Med 12.09
4 Siberian 10.16
5 Baltic 9.88
6 North_Atlantic 7.45
7 East_Asian 4.88
8 Red_Sea 3.06
9 South_Asian 1.70
10 Amerindian 1.65
11 Oceanian 1.32


Central Anatolian Turk (from Aksaray)

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 28.07
2 East_Med 25.43
3 West_Med 12.22
4 Baltic 7.53
5 North_Atlantic 6.97
6 South_Asian 6.15
7 Siberian 4.67
8 East_Asian 4.25
9 Red_Sea 3.08


East Anatolian Turk (from Malatya)
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 31.89
2 East_Med 29.20
3 West_Med 10.16
4 Baltic 6.74
5 North_Atlantic 6.17
6 Siberian 4.73
7 South_Asian 3.71
8 East_Asian 3.25
9 Red_Sea 3.04

The West Anatolian Turk has more than double Siberian% of the other two bro. Search up Erdal Erzincan he looks more like Kurds than other Turks imo.

[Babak]

The West Anatolian Turk has more than double Siberian% of the other two bro. Search up Erdal Erzincan he looks more like Kurds than other Turks imo.

Yea i just noticed it lol. Western turkey is the epitome of most turkic settlements however. Is there more Turkish-kurdish intermarriage in the east? The dude looks straight up kurdish tbh lol

[Mejgusu]

We don’t know anything about the people who are tested. Is the guy from aksaray really fully turk or do all westernturks show more eastasian admixture? I saw eastern results which score more eastasuan than most westernturks. Btw aksaray has few kurdish villages, but he scores typical results for that region. Although the area between kirikkale, kisehir and yozgat were full of turkmen tribes, this area have less eastasian admixture. I should tested.

[Halgurd]

Yea i just noticed it lol. Western turkey is the epitome of most turkic settlements however. Is there more Turkish-kurdish intermarriage in the east? The dude looks straight up kurdish tbh lol

Yep he looks straight up Kurdish.
Erzurum/Erzincan region is a very mixed area of Kurds, Turks and historically Armenians (but you know what happened). Turks from areas like Malatya, Maras, Sivas, Antep, Erzurum and Erzincan all look very different from Western Turks, but all these provinces have a substantial Kurdish population.

[Halgurd]

We don’t know anything about the people who are tested. Is the guy from aksaray really fully turk or do all westernturks show more eastasian admixture? I saw eastern results which score more eastasuan than most westernturks. Btw aksaray has few kurdish villages, but he scores typical results for that region. Although the area between kirikkale, kisehir and yozgat were full of turkmen tribes, this area have less eastasian admixture. I should tested.

What region are you from?

[Kyp]

A lot of Anatolian Turks look really out of place in the Middle East. A lot of them look straight up European to me. I guess it depends on what region they’re from as well though.

https://turkishdnaproject.com/

[Mejgusu]

What region are you from?

My parents come from Kırşehir.

[Kyp]

My parents come from Kırşehir.

Average for Kırşehir natives:

Gedrosian: 17.00
Siberian: 4.64
Northwest_African: 0.79
Southeast_Asian: 0.72
Atlantic_Med: 11.58
North_European: 9.92
South_Asian 1.69
East_African 0.19
Southwest_Asian: 10.92
East_Asian: 4.60
Caucasian: 37.73
SSA: 0.21

Distance to: Turk_Kirsehir
1.97630969 Turk_South
2.88046871 Turk_Anatolia
3.21855558 Turk_Central_East
3.39829369 Turk_Central_West
3.55550278 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
3.99547244 Turk_Southeast
5.47226644 Azerbaijani
5.48320162 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.58421884 Turk_Southwest
5.68852353 Turk_West_BlackSea
7.17470557 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.84717146 Yoruk
8.22653633 Turk_Northwest
9.63782133 Turk_East
10.47036771 Kurd_Kurmanji
10.62897925 Turkmen_Iraq
10.92654566 Zaza
12.28671233 Kurd_Sorani
12.35316559 Talysh_Azerbaijan
13.16395457 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
14.22355089 Armenian_East
14.24797880 Iran_Khorasan
14.50574024 Uzbekistan_Jews
14.72191564 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
14.95454112 Iranian_Fars

Target: Turk_Kirsehir
Distance: 0.4821% / 0.48205148 | ADC: 0.25x
43.4 Turk_Anatolia
31.6 Turk_South
18.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.6 Azerbaijani
1.2 Turkmens
0.6 Brahui

[Fedora]

We don’t know anything about the people who are tested. Is the guy from aksaray really fully turk or do all westernturks show more eastasian admixture? I saw eastern results which score more eastasuan than most westernturks. Btw aksaray has few kurdish villages, but he scores typical results for that region. Although the area between kirikkale, kisehir and yozgat were full of turkmen tribes, this area have less eastasian admixture. I should tested.
No, in such cases only ethnic Turks are considered.
Here are two Turks from Erzincan.
https://i.ibb.co/2824tXc/89795456-2597086917177490-2750290979532570624-n-1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/k34Gvh2/52364606-2403140033069636-6160914871379558400-o.jpg
^Erdal Erzincan might be a Zaza Alevi, though I know that Erzurum-Askale has Cepni Alevis too.
Also Western Turks look more european because the people they mixed were more european+millions of Turks and non-turks who came from Balkans(They are atleast 15million), local villages are also different from coastal cities which were settled by muhacir.

[Mejgusu]

Average for Kırşehir natives:

Gedrosian: 17.00
Siberian: 4.64
Northwest_African: 0.79
Southeast_Asian: 0.72
Atlantic_Med: 11.58
North_European: 9.92
South_Asian 1.69
East_African 0.19
Southwest_Asian: 10.92
East_Asian: 4.60
Caucasian: 37.73
SSA: 0.21

Distance to: Turk_Kirsehir
1.97630969 Turk_South
2.88046871 Turk_Anatolia
3.21855558 Turk_Central_East
3.39829369 Turk_Central_West
3.55550278 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
3.99547244 Turk_Southeast
5.47226644 Azerbaijani
5.48320162 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.58421884 Turk_Southwest
5.68852353 Turk_West_BlackSea
7.17470557 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.84717146 Yoruk
8.22653633 Turk_Northwest
9.63782133 Turk_East
10.47036771 Kurd_Kurmanji
10.62897925 Turkmen_Iraq
10.92654566 Zaza
12.28671233 Kurd_Sorani
12.35316559 Talysh_Azerbaijan
13.16395457 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
14.22355089 Armenian_East
14.24797880 Iran_Khorasan
14.50574024 Uzbekistan_Jews
14.72191564 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
14.95454112 Iranian_Fars

Target: Turk_Kirsehir
Distance: 0.4821% / 0.48205148 | ADC: 0.25x
43.4 Turk_Anatolia
31.6 Turk_South
18.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.6 Azerbaijani
1.2 Turkmens
0.6 Brahui

Thanks my friend. But it would be very interesting what would come out at my results, we are a very atypical family. My maternal family are descendants of karacakurt turkmens of begtili tribe, my paternal grandfather says always hes turkmen. But we do look very atypical, im only since few years brown haired, i always been blond and blueeyed. My sister looked like a german as she was a little girl, nobody assumes me as a turk.

[Halgurd]

No, in such cases only ethnic Turks are considered.
Here are two Turks from Erzincan.
^Erdal Erzincan might be a Zaza Alevi, though I know that Erzurum-Askale has Cepni Alevis too.
Also Western Turks look more european because the people they mixed were more european+millions of Turks and non-turks who came from Balkans(They are atleast 15million), local villages are also different from coastal cities which were settled by muhacir.

How comes Turks from Erzincan have very minimal East Eurasian results unlike other Turks?

[Mejgusu]

How comes Turks from Erzincan have very minimal East Eurasian results unlike other Turks?

Intermixing and assilmilation. But i believe there are places with bigger visible turkic influences.

[Fedora]

How comes Turks from Erzincan have very minimal East Eurasian results unlike other Turks?

They score around 5-6% which is not much different from Turks in Central Anatolia who score 5-9%, it depends they might be mixed with Armenians.
Turks from places like Bayburt,Erzurum are close to Armenians genetically but they still have asiatic admixture even though its very low.

[Demhat]

part hormuzgan(kohestak), part bamani persian:





Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Gedrosia 35.02
2 Caucasus 26.26
3 South_Asian 13.17
4 Southwest_Asian 10.95
5 North_European 4.87
6 Sub_Saharan 4.69
7 Northwest_African 1.81
8 Siberian 1.62
9 East_African 1.23
10 Atlantic_Med 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 15.4
2 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.02
3 Iranian (Dodecad) 18.31
4 Kurd (Dodecad) 19.85
5 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 20.97
6 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 21.44
7 Pathan (HGDP) 21.98
8 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 25.94
9 Burusho (HGDP) 26.11
10 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 27.04
11 Makrani (HGDP) 30.01
12 Jatt (Dodecad) 30.4
13 Turks (Behar) 30.4
14 Lezgins (Behar) 30.43
15 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 30.54
16 Sindhi (HGDP) 31.15
17 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 31.72
18 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 32.42
19 Turkish (Dodecad) 32.49
20 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 32.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69% Iranians (Behar) + 31% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 7.25
2 59.8% Pathan (HGDP) + 40.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 7.34
3 60.5% Iranians (Behar) + 39.5% Pathan (HGDP) @ 7.38
4 68.7% Iranians (Behar) + 31.3% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 7.53
5 76.7% Iranians (Behar) + 23.3% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 7.54
6 75.3% Iranians (Behar) + 24.7% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 7.63
7 62.2% Kurd (Dodecad) + 37.8% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 7.64
8 75.6% Iranians (Behar) + 24.4% Indian (Dodecad) @ 7.64
9 75.3% Iranians (Behar) + 24.7% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) @ 7.71
10 60.9% Pathan (HGDP) + 39.1% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 7.75
11 65.2% Iranians (Behar) + 34.8% Burusho (HGDP) @ 7.76
12 64.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 35.5% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 7.78
13 77.7% Iranians (Behar) + 22.3% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 7.81
14 74.1% Iranians (Behar) + 25.9% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 7.81
15 76.5% Iranians (Behar) + 23.5% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 7.81
16 53.8% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 46.2% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 7.95
17 78.2% Iranians (Behar) + 21.8% INS30 (SGVP) @ 7.98
18 60.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 39.8% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 8.01
19 50.5% Sindhi (HGDP) + 49.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 8.14
20 79% Iranians (Behar) + 21% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 8.14





Likely coastal iranian:




Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Gedrosia 31.81
2 Caucasus 26.74
3 Southwest_Asian 14.39
4 South_Asian 11.13
5 North_European 5.31
6 Atlantic_Med 4.5
7 Sub_Saharan 3.19
8 East_African 2.39
9 Siberian 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 11.81
2 Iranian (Dodecad) 15.28
3 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 15.76
4 Kurd (Dodecad) 16.46
5 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 17.94
6 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 21.56
7 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 22.76
8 Pathan (HGDP) 25.45
9 Turks (Behar) 26.73
10 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 27.01
11 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 27.67
12 Syrians (Behar) 27.67
13 Lebanese (Behar) 28.24
14 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 28.41
15 Turkish (Dodecad) 28.56
16 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 28.59
17 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 28.92
18 Assyrian (Dodecad) 29.18
19 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 29.24
20 Jordanians (Behar) 29.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.9% Pathan (HGDP) + 47.1% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 5.76
2 52.2% Pathan (HGDP) + 47.8% Syrians (Behar) @ 5.78
3 80% Iranians (Behar) + 20% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 5.83
4 82.2% Iranians (Behar) + 17.8% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 5.85
5 81.8% Iranians (Behar) + 18.2% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 5.86
6 81.1% Iranians (Behar) + 18.9% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 5.87
7 60.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 39.3% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 5.94
8 53.9% Pathan (HGDP) + 46.1% Jordanians (Behar) @ 6
9 81.4% Iranians (Behar) + 18.6% Indian (Dodecad) @ 6.03
10 81.1% Iranians (Behar) + 18.9% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) @ 6.03
11 78.9% Iranians (Behar) + 21.1% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 6.05
12 83.8% Iranians (Behar) + 16.2% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 6.11
13 83.5% Iranians (Behar) + 16.5% Dharkars (Metspalu) @ 6.14
14 83.3% Iranians (Behar) + 16.7% INS30 (SGVP) @ 6.14
15 54.2% Iraq_Jews (Behar) + 45.8% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 6.19
16 83.1% Iranians (Behar) + 16.9% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 6.2
17 54.9% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 45.1% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 6.2
18 83.7% Iranians (Behar) + 16.3% Muslim (Metspalu) @ 6.21
19 76.6% Iranians (Behar) + 23.4% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 6.24
20 77.3% Iranians (Behar) + 22.7% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 6.35

These two most definitely Balochis with some Sub Saharan African Sailor/Trader mix

[Leto]

Buusra (Avar born in Turkey)

Population
Gedrosia 25.18 Pct
Siberian 3.22 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 8.01 Pct
North_European 24.34 Pct
South_Asian 0.40 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.98 Pct
East_Asian 0.72 Pct
Caucasus 35.15 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Buusra
4.42967267 Avar
4.96918504 Dargin
5.99605704 Lak
11.04449184 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.74694854 Ingush
13.54783378 Lezgins
14.54629850 Yagnobi
14.68501958 Kumyks
16.31808812 Circassian
17.73093624 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain

Target: Buusra
Distance: 3.6822% / 3.68217581 | ADC: 1x
96.0 Avar
4.0 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain

Target: Buusra
Distance: 2.0339% / 2.03385544 | ADC: 0.5x
80.8 Avar
10.4 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
6.8 Dargin
1.6 France_Corsica
0.4 Turk_Northwest

Target: Buusra
Distance: 0.9527% / 0.95265991 | ADC: 0.25x
52.8 Avar
33.4 Dargin
11.2 Turk_Northwest
1.6 French_Basque
0.6 Sardinian
0.4 Crimean_Tatar_Coast

[Leto]

Some kind of Iranian

Population
Gedrosia 28.19 Pct
Siberian 0.27 Pct
Northwest_African 1.13 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 7.68 Pct
North_European 7.23 Pct
South_Asian 3.93 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 11.99 Pct
East_Asian 1.54 Pct
Caucasus 36.88 Pct
Sub_Saharan 1.16 Pct

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian (Dodecad) 4.83
2 Iranians (Behar) 5.01
3 Kurd (Dodecad) 5.48
4 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 6.58
5 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 12.85
6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 13.67
7 Turks (Behar) 15.52
8 Turkish (Dodecad) 17.61
9 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 18.41
10 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 18.9
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 18.94
12 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 19
13 Assyrian (Dodecad) 19.09
14 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 19.95
15 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 20.25
16 Armenian (Dodecad) 20.86
17 Lebanese (Behar) 21.13
18 Lezgins (Behar) 21.73
19 Syrians (Behar) 22.7
20 Armenians (Behar) 23.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.1% Iranians (Behar) + 9.9% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.46
2 89.8% Iranians (Behar) + 10.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.49
3 90.1% Iranians (Behar) + 9.9% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.53
4 92.6% Iranians (Behar) + 7.4% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.9
5 88.7% Iranians (Behar) + 11.3% Greek (Dodecad) @ 2.92
6 89.8% Iranians (Behar) + 10.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.99
7 93.9% Iranians (Behar) + 6.1% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.1
8 94.1% Iranians (Behar) + 5.9% Polish (Dodecad) @ 3.11
9 93.3% Iranians (Behar) + 6.7% German (Dodecad) @ 3.12
10 93.4% Iranian (Dodecad) + 6.6% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 3.16

[altaic]

Target: Turk_Kirsehir
Distance: 0.4821% / 0.48205148 | ADC: 0.25x
43.4 Turk_Anatolia
31.6 Turk_South
18.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.6 Azerbaijani
1.2 Turkmens
0.6 Brahui

Do you have Elazig and Malatya for that 0.25x calculation? Thanks in advance

[Kyp]

Do you have Elazig and Malatya for that 0.25x calculation? Thanks in advance

Elazig

Distance to: Turk_Elazig
3.54620924 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.74436508 Azerbaijani
4.83337356 Azerbaijani_Iran
4.85511071 Turk_Southeast
4.98795549 Turk_East
5.22839363 Zaza
5.74359643 Kurd_Kurmanji
5.87957481 Turk_Central_East
6.79543229 Turkmen_Iraq
7.58341612 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.14385658 Kurd_Sorani
8.30454695 Turk_South
8.31216578 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
8.63457584 Armenian_East
8.77218901 Turk_Central_West
8.89860663 Turk_Anatolia
9.11792740 Uzbekistan_Jews
10.18796349 Kurds
10.54678624 Lur_Iran
10.59672591 Kurd
10.67046859 Armenian_West
10.86777806 Iranian
11.29541500 Turk_West_BlackSea
12.13234520 Turk_Southwest
12.25996330 Assyrian

Target: Turk_Elazig
Distance: 0.8040% / 0.80398854 | ADC: 0.25x
47.2 Azerbaijani_Turkey
26.4 Zaza
19.8 Turk_East
4.4 Nusayri_Turkey
2.2 Sardinian

Malatya

Distance to: Turk_Malatya
2.99066882 Azerbaijani_Turkey
3.29013678 Turk_Southeast
3.75069327 Azerbaijani
3.98322733 Turk_Central_East
4.75909655 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.98556597 Turk_East
6.11224999 Turk_South
6.52438503 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
6.58600030 Turk_Central_West
6.67310273 Turk_Anatolia
6.85101452 Zaza
6.90625803 Kurd_Kurmanji
7.67271790 Turkmen_Iraq
8.87578166 Talysh_Azerbaijan
9.00509300 Turk_West_BlackSea
9.12303129 Kurd_Sorani
9.86442598 Turk_Southwest
10.29772790 Armenian_East
10.70424682 Uzbekistan_Jews
11.65422241 Kurds
11.93519585 Kurd
12.01267664 Lur_Iran
12.02773877 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.13675822 Iranian
12.17449383 Yoruk

Target: Turk_Malatya
Distance: 0.6903% / 0.69029794 | ADC: 0.25x
47.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
13.4 Turk_Central_East
12.8 Turk_Southeast
10.2 Zaza
9.2 Turk_East
3.8 Italy_Abruzzo
1.4 Greek_Crete
1.0 Italy_Sicily
0.6 Kurd_Kurmanji

[Leto]

Mortimer

Population
Gedrosia 10.02 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 1.12 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.12 Pct
Atlantic_Med 20.64 Pct
North_European 24.66 Pct
South_Asian 11.10 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 6.91 Pct
East_Asian 1.52 Pct
Caucasus 22.83 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.09 Pct

Target: Mortimer
Distance: 3.9741% / 3.97405084 | ADC: 0.5x
57.4 Romanians
19.8 Bnei_Menashe_Jews
18.0 O_Italian
2.8 Brahmins_from_Uttaranchal
2.0 Tajiks

Target: Mortimer
Distance: 1.6362% / 1.63618758 | ADC: 0.25x
56.6 Romanians
17.8 O_Italian
10.4 Cochin_Jews
9.2 Bnei_Menashe_Jews
4.4 Brahmins_from_Uttaranchal
0.8 Algerian
0.8 Khasi

[Kyp]

5 results from Republic Azerbaijan (thanks to Leto)


#1


Gedrosian: 20.08
Siberian: 2.99
Northwest_African: 1.58
Southeast_Asian: 0.23
Atlantic_Med: 8.00
North_European: 10.14
South_Asian 2.69
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.93
East_Asian: 2.78
Caucasian: 39.12
SSA: 0.46

Distance to: AzerRep1
2.39895811 Azerbaijani
2.86038459 Azerbaijani_Turkey
3.05389915 Azerbaijani_Iran
4.56261986 Turk_Southeast
6.28697861 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.52893559 Turk_Central_East
6.77500554 Zaza
6.90516473 Turk_South
7.53801035 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.61253571 Turkmen_Iraq
7.96794202 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
8.03783553 Kurd_Sorani
8.16109061 Turk_Anatolia
8.26644422 Turk_East
8.43124546 Turk_Central_West
9.70752286 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
10.50805405 Turk_West_BlackSea
10.56533956 Iranian
10.70123357 Kurd
10.76393980 Kurds
10.77371802 Turk_Southwest
10.84443175 Lur_Iran
10.97195516 Iranian_Fars
11.48931678 Uzbekistan_Jews
11.68863551 Iran_Khorasan

Target: AzerRep1
Distance: 1.0988% / 1.09879133 | ADC: 0.25x
80.0 Azerbaijani
8.6 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
4.2 Azerbaijani_Turkey
2.4 Balkars
2.2 Samaritians
1.2 Kumyks
0.8 Mozabite
0.4 Yemenese
0.2 Selkup


#2


Gedrosia 21.85 Pct
Siberian 2.31 Pct
Northwest_African 0.34 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.44 Pct
Atlantic_Med 8.64 Pct
North_European 7.94 Pct
South_Asian 2.53 Pct
East_African 0.47 Pct
Southwest_Asian 14.54 Pct
East_Asian 1.93 Pct
Caucasus 39.02 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: AzerRep2
2.75183575 Azerbaijani_Iran
3.23898132 Kurd_Kurmanji
3.41216940 Azerbaijani
3.85019480 Turkmen_Iraq
4.27827068 Zaza
4.27891341 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.58398298 Kurd_Sorani
4.95257509 Turk_Southeast
6.00022500 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.78746429 Lur_Iran
8.09504169 Kurd
8.16662109 Kurds
8.38171224 Turk_Central_East
8.42838656 Iranian
8.49765850 Turk_East
8.87598445 Iranian_Fars
8.98519338 Uzbekistan_Jews
9.30824366 Turk_South
10.34009671 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
10.47196257 Turk_Central_West
10.50551760 Turk_Anatolia
10.80859380 Iranians
10.93834082 Iran_Central_East
11.48843767 Armenian_East
11.91097393 Iran_Khorasan

Target: AzerRep2
Distance: 0.7926% / 0.79259247 | ADC: 0.25x
44.4 Azerbaijani
36.2 Kurd_Kurmanji
11.6 Turkmen_Iraq
4.2 Uzbekistan_Jews
2.4 Turk_Southeast
1.0 Saudis
0.2 Selkup


#3


Gedrosian: 23.12
Siberian: 1.40
Northwest_African: 0.00
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 7.06
North_European: 7.96
South_Asian 2.97
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.59
East_Asian: 3.46
Caucasian: 41.52
SSA: 0.93

Distance to: AzerRep3
3.72061823 Azerbaijani_Iran
3.74223195 Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.24994118 Zaza
4.30558939 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.82785667 Kurd_Kurmanji
4.84253033 Azerbaijani
6.74874062 Kurd_Sorani
7.15985335 Iranian
7.21531704 Turkmen_Iraq
7.27938871 Kurds
7.49703275 Kurd
7.82842257 Turk_Southeast
7.88574664 Lur_Iran
8.13971744 Turk_East
9.73973819 Iranian_Fars
9.79160355 Turk_Central_East
10.06794418 Uzbekistan_Jews
10.12353199 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
10.93661282 Iranians
10.98519003 Turk_South
11.03108336 Armenian_East
11.13803843 Iran_Mazandaran
11.21046832 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.37356145 Iran_Central_East
11.66537183 Iran_Khorasan

Target: AzerRep3
Distance: 1.2008% / 1.20082840 | ADC: 0.25x
62.0 Talysh_Azerbaijan
33.2 Azerbaijani_Turkey
2.2 Turk_Ahiska
1.2 North_Ossetians
0.6 Japanese
0.4 JPT30
0.4 YRI30


#4


Gedrosian: 21.51
Siberian: 2.12
Northwest_African: 0.12
Southeast_Asian: 0.81
Atlantic_Med: 8.84
North_European: 9.00
South_Asian 2.74
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 14.38
East_Asian: 3.47
Caucasian: 36.93
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: AzerRep4
2.84281551 Azerbaijani
3.48162318 Azerbaijani_Iran
4.55173593 Turk_Southeast
4.86738123 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.26263242 Turkmen_Iraq
5.43565083 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.16326212 Kurd_Sorani
6.75809885 Zaza
7.91359590 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.30201180 Turk_Central_East
8.35736202 Turk_South
8.89217634 Iranian_Fars
9.32612996 Lur_Iran
9.58160216 Turk_Central_West
9.59544684 Turk_Anatolia
9.67090482 Kurd
9.87665935 Iranian
9.91781730 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
10.05546618 Kurds
10.36431860 Turk_East
10.49837130 Iran_Central_East
10.57739098 Iran_Khorasan
11.39326117 Uzbekistan_Jews
11.63204195 Iranians
11.80897963 Turk_Southwest

Target: AzerRep4
Distance: 1.0237% / 1.02370930 | ADC: 0.25x
76.2 Azerbaijani
16.2 Turkmen_Iraq
2.6 Tajiks
2.4 Saudis
1.6 Iran_Central_East
1.0 Yagnobi

#5


Gedrosian: 20.44
Siberian: 2.92
Northwest_African: 0.32
Southeast_Asian: 1.48
Atlantic_Med: 10.29
North_European: 8.47
South_Asian 2.21
East_African 0.16
Southwest_Asian: 11.70
East_Asian: 2.88
Caucasian: 38.71
SSA: 0.43

Distance to: AzerRep5
2.05165787 Azerbaijani
2.22528650 Azerbaijani_Turkey
2.98576623 Azerbaijani_Iran
3.55778021 Turk_Southeast
5.74878248 Turk_Central_East
5.92815317 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.45928789 Zaza
6.60210572 Turk_South
6.84783177 Turkmen_Iraq
7.43038357 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
7.58170825 Turk_Anatolia
7.70223344 Turk_Central_West
7.88594319 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.89374436 Turk_East
7.99076342 Kurd_Sorani
10.03201376 Turk_West_BlackSea
10.29947086 Turk_Southwest
10.50423248 Iranian
10.50502737 Lur_Iran
10.57576948 Kurd
10.66906275 Kurds
11.04968325 Iranian_Fars
11.40652883 Uzbekistan_Jews
11.41125322 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.91837657 Yoruk

Target: AzerRep5
Distance: 0.8429% / 0.84289903 | ADC: 0.25x
55.0 Azerbaijani_Turkey
30.2 Azerbaijani
7.0 Kurd_Kurmanji
5.8 Turk_Southeast
1.0 French_Basque
0.6 Cambodians
0.4 Sardinian

[Leto]

They're all 8-10% North European, so somewhat higher than Iranians.

[Kyp]

They're all 8-10% North European, so somewhat higher than Iranians.

yes

[Nomansman]

These two most definitely Balochis with some Sub Saharan African Sailor/Trader mix

The first one 100% is. I got that confirmed.

Not sure about the other one, but tbh i think 1/2 of the entire south east/south iran(hormuzgan, bandar abbas and many kermanis) are just balochs. Seen the results of bandar abbas samples and 2/3 of them just looks like balochs themselves

[Mejgusu]

I wonder why people fron coastal iran have a lot of african in der genetics. Comes it from pre iranic age or just because slave trade ?

[Sora]

I wonder why people fron coastal iran have a lot of african in der genetics. Comes it from pre iranic age or just because slave trade ?

I think they probably either have Arab ancestry or slave trade

Also you can look up for individual Kırşehir results(it also shows the East Eurasian total of individuals):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Pj2rBe3L-Jf89JFACjTC1hSRfI7EOps-zed1x0FFpbY/edit#gid=0

Their results look no different than other Anatolian Turks

[Leto]

I think they probably either have Arab ancestry or slave trade

Also you can look up for individual Kırşehir results(it also shows the East Eurasian total of individuals):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Pj2rBe3L-Jf89JFACjTC1hSRfI7EOps-zed1x0FFpbY/edit#gid=0

Their results look no different than other Anatolian Turks
Do you happen to know if the former user Prinses is included in that sheet? I believe she was from NE Turkey, very high Caucasus score and virtually no Mongoloid. I cannot find her Dodecad results, only Harappa. I personally find those assimilated communities very interesting (no mong and high Caucasus).

[Fedora]

Turk from Drama, Greece
https://i.ibb.co/FDc64dp/88953907-1309706182562582-4755442963281084416-n.jpg

[Sora]

Do you happen to know if the former user Prinses is included in that sheet? I believe she was from NE Turkey, very high Caucasus score and virtually no Mongoloid. I cannot find her Dodecad results, only Harappa. I personally find those assimilated communities very interesting (no mong and high Caucasus).

I don't know who are included, just found it on another forum

[Babak]

I wonder why people fron coastal iran have a lot of african in der genetics. Comes it from pre iranic age or just because slave trade ?


There is a minority of Afro-Iranians down there.

[Dr_Maul]

Some kind of Iranian

Population
Gedrosia 28.19 Pct
Siberian 0.27 Pct
Northwest_African 1.13 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 7.68 Pct
North_European 7.23 Pct
South_Asian 3.93 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 11.99 Pct
East_Asian 1.54 Pct
Caucasus 36.88 Pct
Sub_Saharan 1.16 Pct

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian (Dodecad) 4.83
2 Iranians (Behar) 5.01
3 Kurd (Dodecad) 5.48
4 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 6.58
5 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 12.85
6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 13.67
7 Turks (Behar) 15.52
8 Turkish (Dodecad) 17.61
9 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 18.41
10 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 18.9
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 18.94
12 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 19
13 Assyrian (Dodecad) 19.09
14 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 19.95
15 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 20.25
16 Armenian (Dodecad) 20.86
17 Lebanese (Behar) 21.13
18 Lezgins (Behar) 21.73
19 Syrians (Behar) 22.7
20 Armenians (Behar) 23.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.1% Iranians (Behar) + 9.9% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.46
2 89.8% Iranians (Behar) + 10.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.49
3 90.1% Iranians (Behar) + 9.9% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.53
4 92.6% Iranians (Behar) + 7.4% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.9
5 88.7% Iranians (Behar) + 11.3% Greek (Dodecad) @ 2.92
6 89.8% Iranians (Behar) + 10.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.99
7 93.9% Iranians (Behar) + 6.1% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.1
8 94.1% Iranians (Behar) + 5.9% Polish (Dodecad) @ 3.11
9 93.3% Iranians (Behar) + 6.7% German (Dodecad) @ 3.12
10 93.4% Iranian (Dodecad) + 6.6% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 3.16

This is pretty much how mine would look if my maternal ancestry was from Central Iran and not the coast, I think. Even the single population sharing is almost identical for the first five or so

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 4.75
2 Iranian (Dodecad) 6.48
3 Kurd (Dodecad) 6.85
4 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 8.48
5 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 12.71
6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 14.89
7 Turks (Behar) 16.75
8 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 18.15
9 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 18.39
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 18.78
11 Assyrian (Dodecad) 19.08
12 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 19.22
13 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 19.25
14 Lebanese (Behar) 19.76
15 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 20.8
16 Syrians (Behar) 21.13
17 Armenian (Dodecad) 21.58
18 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 21.95
19 Jordanians (Behar) 22.93
20 Druze (HGDP) 23.93

[Mejgusu]

There is a minority of Afro-Iranians down there.

Yes i know and Sora could also be right, arabian influence especially in khuzestan province. Otherwise the gulf arabs are most iranian influenced people of all arab people(maybe some libanese too).

@Sora, thanks for the link but i already know that. Its just curious, why kirikkale, yozgat and kirsehir show low east asian. In my knowledge there were lot of turkmen tribes, for example my grandmother saud to me she and the father of my mum are karacakurt turkmens(begtili tribe). She has a family who better pass as native american some looks like uzbek, but my my mum definitely doesnt look so, she better pass to iran or azerbaijan, afghanistan and i am more atypical for that region. Not even the turks here recognize me as a turk, the italians think i am italian:). Some turks think i am from tranzon or egean.

[Luso]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 41.41
2 North_European 26.91
3 Caucasus 14.17
4 Southwest_Asian 5.58
5 Northwest_African 5.21
6 Gedrosia 3.14
7 Sub_Saharan 1.39
8 East_African 1.37
9 Siberian 0.49
10 South_Asian 0.3


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Galicia (1000Genomes) 8.05
2 Portuguese (Dodecad) 9.04
3 Baleares (1000Genomes) 9.21
4 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 9.23
5 N_Italian (Dodecad) 9.68
6 North_Italian (HGDP) 10.52
7 Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) 11.22
8 Murcia (1000Genomes) 11.6
9 Cataluna (1000Genomes) 12.32
10 Canarias (1000Genomes) 12.34
11 Spanish (Dodecad) 12.63
12 Spaniards (Behar) 12.68
13 French (HGDP) 12.89
14 French (Dodecad) 13.04
15 Andalucia (1000Genomes) 14.02
16 Cantabria (1000Genomes) 14.36
17 Castilla_La_Mancha (1000Genomes) 14.63
18 Valencia (1000Genomes) 15.28
19 TSI30 (Metspalu) 15.7
20 Aragon (1000Genomes) 16


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.7% Portuguese (Dodecad) + 27.3% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.89
2 72.2% Portuguese (Dodecad) + 27.8% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.92
3 74.9% Galicia (1000Genomes) + 25.1% Romanians (Behar) @ 3.01
4 75.5% Galicia (1000Genomes) + 24.5% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.09
5 75.8% Galicia (1000Genomes) + 24.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.09
6 73.3% Portuguese (Dodecad) + 26.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.14
7 67.5% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) + 32.5% Romanians (Behar) @ 3.43
8 72.2% Extremadura (1000Genomes) + 27.8% Romanians (Behar) @ 3.51
9 68.5% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) + 31.5% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.57
10 72.8% Extremadura (1000Genomes) + 27.2% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.57
11 68.2% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) + 31.8% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.67
12 78.6% Murcia (1000Genomes) + 21.4% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.72
13 73.3% Extremadura (1000Genomes) + 26.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.73
14 64.8% Spanish (Dodecad) + 35.2% Romanians (Behar) @ 3.86
15 65.8% Spanish (Dodecad) + 34.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.89
16 69% Murcia (1000Genomes) + 31% Hungarians (Behar) @ 3.91
17 65.4% Spanish (Dodecad) + 34.6% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.95
18 80.7% Murcia (1000Genomes) + 19.3% Russian_B (Behar) @ 4.04
19 67% Murcia (1000Genomes) + 33% Romanians (Behar) @ 4.07
20 85.4% Galicia (1000Genomes) + 14.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 4.17

[Demhat]

The first one 100% is. I got that confirmed.

Not sure about the other one, but tbh i think 1/2 of the entire south east/south iran(hormuzgan, bandar abbas and many kermanis) are just balochs. Seen the results of bandar abbas samples and 2/3 of them just looks like balochs themselves

Like 1/2 to 2/3 of the Hormozgan province is predominantly Baloch and the Baluchistan province is even more.

[Demhat]

I wonder why people fron coastal iran have a lot of african in der genetics. Comes it from pre iranic age or just because slave trade ?

East African Sailors and some brought in by the Portuguese during slave trade. There are also real Sub Saharan Iranians (Afro-Iranians). The large majority of them are concentrated in Hormozgan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Iranians

[Kyp]

Some kind of Iranian Turk (not from Azerbaijan region I think):

Gedrosian: 22.33
Siberian: 1.38
Northwest_African: 0.39
Southeast_Asian: 0.22
Atlantic_Med: 7.70
North_European: 8.77
South_Asian 5.18
East_African 0.71
Southwest_Asian: 13.76
East_Asian: 3.31
Caucasian: 36.15
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Iran123
4.48185230 Azerbaijani
4.49436314 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.73299224 Kurd_Sorani
5.94485492 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.27986465 Turkmen_Iraq
6.33026066 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.63735640 Turk_Southeast
6.77941000 Iranian_Fars
7.01526906 Iranian_Zoroastrian
7.54625072 Zaza
7.72477831 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.95499843 Iran_Central_East
8.33689391 Iran_Khorasan
8.56146600 Lur_Iran
9.19757577 Iranian
9.68232410 Kurd
10.16295725 Turk_South
10.32012597 Turk_Central_East
10.37927743 Kurds
10.42992809 Iranians
11.45448384 Turk_Anatolia
11.50568990 Turk_Central_West
11.80859433 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.98668845 Turk_East
12.05269265 Azerbaijani_Dagestan

Target: Iran123
Distance: 1.1611% / 1.16108814 | ADC: 0.25x
61.0 Azerbaijani
19.2 Iran_Central_East
9.2 Kurd_Sorani
4.0 Iran_Khorasan
3.6 Iranian_Fars
1.8 Saudis
0.6 Pulliyar
0.4 Brahmins_from_Uttaranchal
0.2 JPT30

[Leto]

Half Armenian (father), half Azerbaijani (mother), born in Baku
From Reddit
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?305464-23andme-from-Reddit&p=6633361&viewfull=1#post6633361

Population
Gedrosia 19.57 Pct
Siberian 1.04 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 8.56 Pct
North_European 8.94 Pct
South_Asian 2.15 Pct
East_African 0.37 Pct
Southwest_Asian 11.97 Pct
East_Asian 1.74 Pct
Caucasus 45.49 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct

Distance to: Marat
3.35944936 Turk_East
6.06420646 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.23458900 Zaza
6.42362047 Armenian_East
7.42275555 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.60576097 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.64078530 Azerbaijani
7.99863113 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.34749064 Uzbekistan_Jews
8.42666007 Turk_Central_East
8.45033727 Turk_Ahiska
8.53152390 Turk_Southeast
9.55290008 Armenian_West
9.57028213 Turkmen_Iraq
10.04030876 Kurd_Sorani
10.28127424 Kurds
10.37060750 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.05947105 Turk_South
11.08988729 Turk_East_Black_Sea
11.56808541 Kurd

Target: Marat
Distance: 1.9434% / 1.94340133 | ADC: 0.5x
77.0 Turk_East
15.2 Talysh_Azerbaijan
3.2 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
3.2 Kumyks
1.4 Turk_Ahiska

Target: Marat
Distance: 1.4424% / 1.44240687 | ADC: 0.25x
61.4 Turk_East
10.8 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.8 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.6 Turk_Ahiska
7.4 Uzbekistan_Jews
4.6 Kumyks
0.4 Pulliyar

[Kyp]

Half Armenian (father), half Azerbaijani (mother), born in Baku
From Reddit
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?305464-23andme-from-Reddit&p=6633361&viewfull=1#post6633361

Population
Gedrosia 19.57 Pct
Siberian 1.04 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 8.56 Pct
North_European 8.94 Pct
South_Asian 2.15 Pct
East_African 0.37 Pct
Southwest_Asian 11.97 Pct
East_Asian 1.74 Pct
Caucasus 45.49 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct

Distance to: Marat
3.35944936 Turk_East
6.06420646 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.23458900 Zaza
6.42362047 Armenian_East
7.42275555 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.60576097 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.64078530 Azerbaijani
7.99863113 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.34749064 Uzbekistan_Jews
8.42666007 Turk_Central_East
8.45033727 Turk_Ahiska
8.53152390 Turk_Southeast
9.55290008 Armenian_West
9.57028213 Turkmen_Iraq
10.04030876 Kurd_Sorani
10.28127424 Kurds
10.37060750 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.05947105 Turk_South
11.08988729 Turk_East_Black_Sea
11.56808541 Kurd

Target: Marat
Distance: 1.9434% / 1.94340133 | ADC: 0.5x
77.0 Turk_East
15.2 Talysh_Azerbaijan
3.2 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
3.2 Kumyks
1.4 Turk_Ahiska

Target: Marat
Distance: 1.4424% / 1.44240687 | ADC: 0.25x
61.4 Turk_East
10.8 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.8 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.6 Turk_Ahiska
7.4 Uzbekistan_Jews
4.6 Kumyks
0.4 Pulliyar

Telling that Turk_East is #1

[Leto]

Telling that Turk_East is #1
Maybe Eastern Turks are a similar mix like him? Armo-Azer.

[Kyp]

Maybe Eastern Turks are a similar mix like him? Armo-Azer.

Yes I guess so too but more like Turkish-Armenian in general:

Target: Turk_East
Distance: 0.6888% / 0.68883568 | ADC: 0.25x
60.8 Armenian_East
17.0 Turk_Anatolia
15.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.2 Circassian
1.4 Turk_Ahiska

With Azerbaijani_Turkey removed:

Target: Turk_East
Distance: 0.6864% / 0.68639574 | ADC: 0.25x
62.6 Armenian_East
21.2 Turk_Anatolia
8.4 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.0 Circassian
1.8 Turk_Ahiska

[Fedora]

Maybe Eastern Turks are a similar mix like him? Armo-Azer.

A pontic mix will give a Turk_East result too, like some western Trabzon results.

[Kyp]

A pontic mix will give a Turk_East result too, like some western Trabzon results.

Target: Turk_Pontus
Distance: 1.1807% / 1.18070752 | ADC: 0.25x
62.2 Turk_East_Black_Sea
23.8 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
7.6 Greek_Cappadocia
4.2 Armenian_West
1.4 Daur
0.6 JPT30
0.2 Japanese

bit different mixed mode though

[Kyp]

Iranian result, probably some kind of Iranian Turk, or mixed, probably from Khorasan:

Gedrosian: 25.98
Siberian: 1.83
Northwest_African: 0.00
Southeast_Asian: 0.72
Atlantic_Med: 4.82
North_European: 10.94
South_Asian 5.53
East_African 0.86
Southwest_Asian: 10.13
East_Asian: 4.46
Caucasian: 34.69
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Iran124
3.96373561 Iran_Khorasan
6.32079109 Iran_Central_East
7.35233296 Iranian_Fars
8.39004768 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.72684364 Azerbaijani
9.28886968 Turkmens
9.46893869 Iranian
9.55609753 Talysh_Azerbaijan
9.83601545 Turkmen_Iran
9.92742666 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
9.95720342 Kurd_Kurmanji
10.09144192 Azerbaijani_Turkey
10.14142988 Iran_Mazandaran
10.15090144 Kurd_Sorani
10.60220732 Iranians
10.61955272 Lur_Iran
10.79040314 Kurd
11.25496779 Zaza
11.71971416 Turkmen_Iraq
11.89583120 Kurds
11.97723257 Turk_Southeast
13.93602167 Turk_South
14.77221717 Turk_Central_East
14.84378995 Parsi_India
15.23550459 Turk_Anatolia

Target: Iran124
Distance: 1.2932% / 1.29320040 | ADC: 0.25x
60.4 Iran_Khorasan
24.6 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.0 Iranian_Fars
2.6 Kurds
0.8 Japanese
0.4 Saudis
0.2 Iran_Mazandaran

[Sora]

@Sora, thanks for the link but i already know that. Its just curious, why kirikkale, yozgat and kirsehir show low east asian. In my knowledge there were lot of turkmen tribes, for example my grandmother saud to me she and the father of my mum are karacakurt turkmens(begtili tribe). She has a family who better pass as native american some looks like uzbek, but my my mum definitely doesnt look so, she better pass to iran or azerbaijan, afghanistan and i am more atypical for that region. Not even the turks here recognize me as a turk, the italians think i am italian. Some turks think i am from tranzon or egean.


That's normal hence Turks are mixed Oghuz + Anatolian(even sometimes Iranic) and have different degrees of Mongoloid(East Eurasian) admixture.

Also if you have sufficient money, then I advice you to take a DNA test. You & your family may have Iranic ancestry along with Oghuz + Anatolian.

May Central Anatolian Turks have more Anatolian ancestry than we thought. Yes, those places are first Türkmen settlings. But interestingly, the most Oghuz-admixed places are Aegean, Mediterranean & southern Marmara regions.

[Kaspias]

Turk from Drama, Greece
https://i.ibb.co/FDc64dp/88953907-1309706182562582-4755442963281084416-n.jpg

May I ask kit number?

[Kaspias]

Results from my father's village:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 26.85
2 Caucasus 25.4
3 Atlantic_Med 18.43
4 Gedrosia 8.87
5 Southwest_Asian 8.41
6 Siberian 5.92
7 East_Asian 3.06
8 Northwest_African 1.72
9 South_Asian 1.31
10 Southeast_Asian 0.01

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 24.82
2 North_European 22.7
3 Atlantic_Med 21.58
4 Southwest_Asian 10.43
5 Gedrosia 8.45
6 Siberian 3.76
7 East_Asian 3.68
8 South_Asian 2.36
9 Northwest_African 2.12
10 Sub_Saharan 0.1


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.47
2 North_European 22.23
3 Atlantic_Med 20.59
4 Gedrosia 9.55
5 Southwest_Asian 8.88
6 Siberian 6.27
7 East_Asian 2.64
8 South_Asian 2.31
9 Northwest_African 0.63
10 East_African 0.41

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.49
2 North_European 24.3
3 Atlantic_Med 15.73
4 Gedrosia 9.4
5 Siberian 8.11
6 Southwest_Asian 7.16
7 East_Asian 6.47
8 South_Asian 1.37
9 Northwest_African 0.49
10 East_African 0.48


First one is I.
Second one is my 1st cousin,
Third one is my 4th cousin,
Fourth one is my 3rd cousin.

I didn't know the last two were my relatives before the DNA test. They are just my friends actually.

[Fedora]

Results from my father's village:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 26.85
2 Caucasus 25.4
3 Atlantic_Med 18.43
4 Gedrosia 8.87
5 Southwest_Asian 8.41
6 Siberian 5.92
7 East_Asian 3.06
8 Northwest_African 1.72
9 South_Asian 1.31
10 Southeast_Asian 0.01

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 24.82
2 North_European 22.7
3 Atlantic_Med 21.58
4 Southwest_Asian 10.43
5 Gedrosia 8.45
6 Siberian 3.76
7 East_Asian 3.68
8 South_Asian 2.36
9 Northwest_African 2.12
10 Sub_Saharan 0.1


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.47
2 North_European 22.23
3 Atlantic_Med 20.59
4 Gedrosia 9.55
5 Southwest_Asian 8.88
6 Siberian 6.27
7 East_Asian 2.64
8 South_Asian 2.31
9 Northwest_African 0.63
10 East_African 0.41

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.49
2 North_European 24.3
3 Atlantic_Med 15.73
4 Gedrosia 9.4
5 Siberian 8.11
6 Southwest_Asian 7.16
7 East_Asian 6.47
8 South_Asian 1.37
9 Northwest_African 0.49
10 East_African 0.48


First one is I.
Second one is my 1st cousin,
Third one is my 4th cousin,
Fourth one is my 3rd cousin.

I didn't know the last two were my relatives before the DNA test. They are just my friends actually.
Sizin köyde Türkistan etkisi Yunanistanin baska taraflarinda gördügüm sonuctan daha fazla.
Another Turk result from Komotini/Kastanies
https://i.ibb.co/YffvwXb/80578364-1241631682703366-1522674951356678144-n.jpg

[Mejgusu]

Results from my father's village:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 26.85
2 Caucasus 25.4
3 Atlantic_Med 18.43
4 Gedrosia 8.87
5 Southwest_Asian 8.41
6 Siberian 5.92
7 East_Asian 3.06
8 Northwest_African 1.72
9 South_Asian 1.31
10 Southeast_Asian 0.01

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 24.82
2 North_European 22.7
3 Atlantic_Med 21.58
4 Southwest_Asian 10.43
5 Gedrosia 8.45
6 Siberian 3.76
7 East_Asian 3.68
8 South_Asian 2.36
9 Northwest_African 2.12
10 Sub_Saharan 0.1


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.47
2 North_European 22.23
3 Atlantic_Med 20.59
4 Gedrosia 9.55
5 Southwest_Asian 8.88
6 Siberian 6.27
7 East_Asian 2.64
8 South_Asian 2.31
9 Northwest_African 0.63
10 East_African 0.41

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.49
2 North_European 24.3
3 Atlantic_Med 15.73
4 Gedrosia 9.4
5 Siberian 8.11
6 Southwest_Asian 7.16
7 East_Asian 6.47
8 South_Asian 1.37
9 Northwest_African 0.49
10 East_African 0.48


First one is I.
Second one is my 1st cousin,
Third one is my 4th cousin,
Fourth one is my 3rd cousin.

I didn't know the last two were my relatives before the DNA test. They are just my friends actually.

Your ancestors definitely came unmixed to balkan, maybe one of the first rebellious turkmens. I read here once whetzer your have oghuz or tatar(kiptchak) influence. I don’t eliminate the probability of tatar influence but i think you have mostly oghuz. Let dont forget that tatars where also influenced by oghuzes. You have in proportional to eastasian that ammount of gedrosia and south asian admixture which could indicate central asian(turkmenistan uzbekistan) heritage.

[Mejgusu]

That's normal hence Turks are mixed Oghuz + Anatolian(even sometimes Iranic) and have different degrees of Mongoloid(East Eurasian) admixture.

Also if you have sufficient money, then I advice you to take a DNA test. You & your family may have Iranic ancestry along with Oghuz + Anatolian.

May Central Anatolian Turks have more Anatolian ancestry than we thought. Yes, those places are first Türkmen settlings. But interestingly, the most Oghuz-admixed places are Aegean, Mediterranean & southern Marmara regions.


Yes i will take a test, but i think not this year, i save money for an other thing. And i am just an univesity student, so i am not rich. The case is its generally believed that after mongol invasion mostly nomads flew to coastal refions of turkey abd because of that central anatolia is less turkic. I think thats the same as some say western turkey is just turkified greek people. I believe we mixed but i think that happened at the beginning of our arrival in anatolia. My maternal grandma can trace back her abd the roots of the father of my mum at least 200 years back. My paternal grandpa can trace back our roots more than 300 years. The village of my maternal grandma exists since 16th history, the maternal gandpas village where then known as „kışlak”. They are members if famous turkmen tribe. Of my paterbal side my father said my grandma is descendt of poor turcoman nomads, my grandpa tell full if pride the story of his ancestors, the same tribe like my maternal side, some historians say about paternal villages they also afshar influenced. If my relatives tell that all you would believe, if i would do nobody would believe. Me and my little sister are definitely atypical for central anatolians.

[Demhat]

Yes I guess so too but more like Turkish-Armenian in general:

Target: Turk_East
Distance: 0.6888% / 0.68883568 | ADC: 0.25x
60.8 Armenian_East
17.0 Turk_Anatolia
15.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.2 Circassian
1.4 Turk_Ahiska

With Azerbaijani_Turkey removed:

Target: Turk_East
Distance: 0.6864% / 0.68639574 | ADC: 0.25x
62.6 Armenian_East
21.2 Turk_Anatolia
8.4 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.0 Circassian
1.8 Turk_Ahiska

Most "Eastern Turks" are literally like Kurds with some Central Asian. Or to be more precise they look straight up like Azeris genetically. Some of them appear to be Armenian mixed though. Despite how close Armenians, Azeris and Kurds are. There seems to be one significant difference in the real Armenian DNA. Armenians tend to have a stronger Levant and Central-West Anatolian signature. While the main difference between Azeris and Kurds seems to be stronger lvls of East Eurasian admixture in the former, if you ignore the slight differences in CHG lvls due to regional differences.

[Leto]

Yes i will take a test, but i think not this year, i save money for an other thing. And i am just an univesity student, so i am not rich. The case is its generally believed that after mongol invasion mostly nomads flew to coastal refions of turkey abd because of that central anatolia is less turkic. I think thats the same as some say western turkey is just turkified greek people. I believe we mixed but i think that happened at the beginning of our arrival in anatolia. My maternal grandma can trace back her abd the roots of the father of my mum at least 200 years back. My paternal grandpa can trace back our roots more than 300 years. The village of my maternal grandma exists since 16th history, the maternal gandpas village where then known as „kışlak”. They are members if famous turkmen tribe. Of my paterbal side my father said my grandma is descendt of poor turcoman nomads, my grandpa tell full if pride the story of his ancestors, the same tribe like my maternal side, some historians say about paternal villages they also afshar influenced. If my relatives tell that all you would believe, if i would do nobody would believe. Me and my little sister are definitely atypical for central anatolians.
Do you pass as white in Europe?

[Kyp]

Most "Eastern Turks" are literally like Kurds with some Central Asian. Or to be more precise they look straight up like Azeris genetically. Some of them appear to be Armenian mixed though. Despite how close Armenians, Azeris and Kurds are. There seems to be one significant difference in the real Armenian DNA. Armenians tend to have a stronger Levant and Central-West Anatolian signature. While the main difference between Azeris and Kurds seems to be stronger lvls of East Eurasian admixture in the former, if you ignore the slight differences in CHG lvls due to regional differences.


Disagree.
Can't you see the average you just quoted? Eastern Turks are not close to Kurds. Azerbaijanis are close to Kurds yes. However Azerbaijanis are not close to Armenians while Eastern Turks are.
A Turkish+Kurdish mix will be close to Azerbaijanis yes. A Turkish+Armenian mix will be close to Eastern Turks.

Kurds with a bit of Central Asian and Anatolian are more like Zaza/Alevi Kurds.

[Leto]

Disagree.
Can't you see the average you just quoted? Eastern Turks are not close to Kurds. Azerbaijanis are close to Kurds yes. However Azerbaijanis are not close to Armenians while Eastern Turks are.
A Turkish+Kurdish mix will be close to Azerbaijanis yes. A Turkish+Armenian mix will be close to Eastern Turks.

Kurds with a bit of Central Asian and Anatolian are more like Zaza/Alevi Kurds.
Is Demhat close to Eastern Turkey? :)
Let's repost him here


Gedrosia 26.34 Pct
Siberian 0.58 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.67 Pct
Atlantic_Med 8.66 Pct
North_European 6.11 Pct
South_Asian 1.57 Pct
East_African 0.39 Pct
Southwest_Asian 14.47 Pct
East_Asian 0.09 Pct
Caucasus 40.86 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.26 Pct

Distance to: Demhat
3.22420533 Zaza
3.24319287 Kurd_Kurmanji
3.45887265 Kurds
4.07845559 Kurd
4.35341245 Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.53287988 Kurd_Sorani
4.63850191 Lur_Iran
5.17511353 Iranian
5.69068537 Turkmen_Iraq
6.79525570 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.60524819 Iranians
8.29860229 Azerbaijani
8.42081944 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.50242318 Iranian_Fars
8.84035067 Uzbekistan_Jews
9.88672848 Iran_Mazandaran
10.29994660 Turk_Southeast
10.35815138 Turk_East
11.27882973 Iran_Central_East
11.44012675 Armenian_East

Target: Demhat
Distance: 1.7262% / 1.72624659 | ADC: 1x
49.4 Kurd_Kurmanji
44.6 Kurds
6.0 Zaza

Target: Demhat
Distance: 1.5507% / 1.55074968 | ADC: 0.5x
49.4 Kurds
45.6 Kurd_Kurmanji
3.2 Zaza
1.2 Lur_Iran
0.4 Sardinian
0.2 Turkmen_Iraq

Target: Demhat
Distance: 0.7699% / 0.76994795 | ADC: 0.25x
61.4 Kurds
11.2 Zaza
8.4 Kurd_Sorani
7.4 Lur_Iran
5.2 Kurd_Kurmanji
4.2 Turkmen_Iraq
2.2 Sardinian

Reiner Arier :D

[harutsafaryan07]

@Demhat some Turkey Kurds

Distance to:Kurd_Centrl
4.23681484Kurd_Kurmanji
4.24915286Kurd_Sorani
5.05139585Azerbaijani_Iran
5.36660973Iranian_Fars
5.83876699Turkmen_Iraq
5.99432231Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.14568141Zaza
6.18007282Azerbaijani
6.25554154Lur_Iran
6.67526029Kurd
6.88339306Iranian
7.56585091Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.66127274Kurds
7.72560030Iran_Central_East
7.74203462Iranians
8.75595797Turk_Southeast
9.15795283Iran_Khorasan
9.99188170Iran_Mazandaran
11.69104358Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.06561644Uzbekistan_Jews
12.22644266Turk_Central_East
12.35071658Turk_East
12.53693743Turk_South
13.75269792Turk_Anatolia
13.76396019Turk_Central_West

Distance to:Kurd_Cental_West
3.14617228Kurd_Kurmanji
3.70067561Zaza
5.00105989Azerbaijani_Iran
5.19160861Turkmen_Iraq
5.61190698Kurd_Sorani
5.80998279Azerbaijani
5.85316154Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.10341708Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.08112985Turk_Southeast
7.42699132Lur_Iran
7.52477907Kurds
7.69391318Kurd
8.05396176Iranian
8.42506973Turk_East
9.55313038Uzbekistan_Jews
9.59179337Turk_Central_East
9.62562725Iranian_Fars
10.22957966Iranians
10.75174404Armenian_East
11.25085775Turk_South
11.77825114Turk_Central_West
11.84991561Iran_Central_East
11.88114473Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.96754361Turk_Anatolia
12.67999211Armenian_West

Distance to:Kurd_Ankara
3.19202130Talysh_Azerbaijan
3.84533484Iranian
4.08300135Kurd_Kurmanji
4.54478822Lur_Iran
4.77168733Kurd_Sorani
5.01703099Kurd
5.06794830Zaza
5.71957166Azerbaijani_Iran
5.76164907Kurds
6.15306428Iranian_Fars
7.04049714Iranians
7.35639178Turkmen_Iraq
7.53717454Iran_Mazandaran
7.56621438Azerbaijani
7.86248052Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.94869801Iran_Central_East
10.25012195Iran_Khorasan
10.38908562Turk_Southeast
11.05615666Uzbekistan_Jews
11.11600648Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.57471814Turk_East
13.23249032Turk_Central_East
13.71268391Armenian_East
13.94832965Turk_South
14.79337352Turk_Central_Black_Sea

As You see Kurds closer to Iranians than to Armenians or To East Turks generally

Отправлено с моего DLI-TL20 через Tapatalk

[Kyp]

Is Demhat close to Eastern Turkey? :)
Let's repost him here


Gedrosia 26.34 Pct
Siberian 0.58 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.67 Pct
Atlantic_Med 8.66 Pct
North_European 6.11 Pct
South_Asian 1.57 Pct
East_African 0.39 Pct
Southwest_Asian 14.47 Pct
East_Asian 0.09 Pct
Caucasus 40.86 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.26 Pct

Distance to: Demhat
3.22420533 Zaza
3.24319287 Kurd_Kurmanji
3.45887265 Kurds
4.07845559 Kurd
4.35341245 Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.53287988 Kurd_Sorani
4.63850191 Lur_Iran
5.17511353 Iranian
5.69068537 Turkmen_Iraq
6.79525570 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.60524819 Iranians
8.29860229 Azerbaijani
8.42081944 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.50242318 Iranian_Fars
8.84035067 Uzbekistan_Jews
9.88672848 Iran_Mazandaran
10.29994660 Turk_Southeast
10.35815138 Turk_East
11.27882973 Iran_Central_East
11.44012675 Armenian_East

Target: Demhat
Distance: 1.7262% / 1.72624659 | ADC: 1x
49.4 Kurd_Kurmanji
44.6 Kurds
6.0 Zaza

Target: Demhat
Distance: 1.5507% / 1.55074968 | ADC: 0.5x
49.4 Kurds
45.6 Kurd_Kurmanji
3.2 Zaza
1.2 Lur_Iran
0.4 Sardinian
0.2 Turkmen_Iraq

Target: Demhat
Distance: 0.7699% / 0.76994795 | ADC: 0.25x
61.4 Kurds
11.2 Zaza
8.4 Kurd_Sorani
7.4 Lur_Iran
5.2 Kurd_Kurmanji
4.2 Turkmen_Iraq
2.2 Sardinian

Reiner Arier :D

For comparison:

Distance to: Turk_East
4.88200778 Armenian_East
6.85192674 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.32456825 Turk_Central_East
7.47177355 Armenian_West
7.53021912 Zaza
8.18080069 Uzbekistan_Jews
8.33249062 Turk_Southeast
8.56315362 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.62619847 Azerbaijani
8.70685362 Turk_Ahiska
9.11710480 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.44748644 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
9.57523368 Turk_East_Black_Sea
9.63026999 Talysh_Azerbaijan
10.02363208 Turkmen_Iraq
10.51016651 Turk_South
10.57407206 Assyrian

Distance to: Turk_Southeast
3.78707011 Azerbaijani
4.29018648 Turk_Central_East
4.37587705 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.94072869 Turk_South
5.21708731 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.81908928 Turk_Central_West
5.96440274 Turk_Anatolia
6.32729010 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
7.00586897 Turkmen_Iraq
7.68417855 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.29432336 Zaza
8.33249062 Turk_East
8.51700065 Turk_West_BlackSea
8.77450283 Turk_Southwest
8.97361131 Kurd_Sorani
10.22737014 Talysh_Azerbaijan
10.97013674 Yoruk

[Leto]

A banned user, I believe he was half Alevi Kurdish half Turkish


Gedrosia 23.66
Siberian 2.90
Northwest_African 0.95
Southeast_Asian 1.27
Atlantic_Med 8.99
North_European 8.16
South_Asian 1.72
East_African 0.37
Southwest_Asian 11.02
East_Asian 1.31
Caucasus 39.63
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: G
3.00594411 Azerbaijani_Iran
3.87898183 Kurd_Kurmanji
4.16773320 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.36284311 Azerbaijani
4.38872419 Zaza
4.92688543 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.69891036 Kurd_Sorani
6.91353021 Turkmen_Iraq
7.09224224 Turk_Southeast
7.15439725 Iranian
7.32634971 Kurd
7.49235610 Kurds
7.93704605 Lur_Iran
8.67626072 Turk_East
9.19099559 Turk_Central_East
9.33495581 Iranian_Fars
9.90138374 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
10.14607806 Turk_South
10.42110359 Iranians
10.72409903 Turk_Central_Black_Sea

Target: G
Distance: 2.7741% / 2.77411841 | ADC: 1x
83.8 Azerbaijani_Iran
16.2 Kurd_Kurmanji

Target: G
Distance: 2.2851% / 2.28506844 | ADC: 0.5x
62.4 Azerbaijani_Iran
29.4 Kurd_Kurmanji
5.4 Ingush
2.8 Iranian

Target: G
Distance: 1.3581% / 1.35808318 | ADC: 0.25x
45.2 Azerbaijani_Iran
13.4 Zaza
11.8 Iranian
11.6 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.8 Ingush
6.0 Kurd
1.0 Sardinian
0.6 French_Basque
0.4 Nganassan
0.2 Dai


I'm trying to find Hadouken's results.

[Demhat]

Disagree.
Can't you see the average you just quoted? Eastern Turks are not close to Kurds. Azerbaijanis are close to Kurds yes. However Azerbaijanis are not close to Armenians while Eastern Turks are.
A Turkish+Kurdish mix will be close to Azerbaijanis yes. A Turkish+Armenian mix will be close to Eastern Turks.

Kurds with a bit of Central Asian and Anatolian are more like Zaza/Alevi Kurds.

I admite I might have been wrong there with Eastern Turks. But my point about Armenians being more West-Central Anatolia and Levant shifted compared to Kurds and Azaris is quite correct. It could be down to a Phrygian origin?

[Kyp]

I admite I might have been wrong there.

no problem mate

[Leto]

Hadouken

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.46
2 Gedrosia 23.29
3 Southwest_Asian 14.58
4 Atlantic_Med 9.95
5 North_European 6.12
6 South_Asian 2.13
7 East_Asian 1.28
8 Siberian 0.97
9 Northwest_African 0.91
10 Sub_Saharan 0.7
11 Southeast_Asian 0.6

Distance to: Hadouken
2.33383804 Kurd_Kurmanji
3.21860218 Turkmen_Iraq
3.38588246 Zaza
3.95710753 Kurd_Sorani
4.56826006 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.63291221 Azerbaijani
5.75663964 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.00725395 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.48448919 Lur_Iran
6.84510044 Turk_Southeast
7.01265285 Kurd
7.05360192 Kurds
7.75430848 Iranian
8.40567070 Uzbekistan_Jews
8.73024055 Iranian_Fars
8.77577347 Turk_East
9.58901976 Iranians
9.91264344 Turk_Central_East
10.87177998 Armenian_East
11.34387059 Turk_South

Target: Hadouken
Distance: 1.7835% / 1.78346445 | ADC: 1x
75.2 Kurd_Kurmanji
24.8 Turkmen_Iraq

Target: Hadouken
Distance: 1.3482% / 1.34820107 | ADC: 0.5x
68.8 Kurd_Kurmanji
30.4 Turkmen_Iraq
0.8 Sardinian

Target: Hadouken
Distance: 0.9367% / 0.93667017 | ADC: 0.25x
49.2 Kurd_Kurmanji
31.6 Turkmen_Iraq
17.4 Zaza
1.6 Sardinian
0.2 YRI30

[Kaspias]

Sizin köyde Türkistan etkisi Yunanistanin baska taraflarinda gördügüm sonuctan daha fazla.
Another Turk result from Komotini/Kastanies
https://i.ibb.co/YffvwXb/80578364-1241631682703366-1522674951356678144-n.jpg

Western Thrace, especially Komotini, is different from the rest of Greece. The reason for this is that there are not only the locals but also the Turks who came later, lives in the region. Also, the mixture we call native is in some cases is Bulgarian, not Greek. The reason for this can be explained by the dense Pomak and Christian Bulgarian population in the region. Turks as a mass usually prefered to mix with Bulgarians rather than Greeks for some reason. But still, the ones who are centre of the towns(Komotini, Xanthi) usually carry Greek-Vlach like admixture. Even some have Jewish. So it is possible to see both Greek and Bulgarian admixture among the Turks of the region, but I would say Bulgarian is somewhat(~70%) dominant. The recent Turkification of Pomaks is also boosting it.

These are the migrations to Western Thrace:


1- Turks from Drama-Kavala to Xanthi.
2- Turks from the Northern part of Central Macedonia and the Southern part of North Macedonia to Komotini and Xanthi.
3- Turks from Kardzhali to Komotini and Xanthi. (That's a mass migration happened between 1911 and 1950s)
4- Turks (and Tatars?) from NE Bulgaria to Komotini.
5- Pomaks from Bulgaria to Komotini.
6- Alevi Pomaks from Central Macedonia to Komotini.
7- Alevi Turks from Central Macedonia to Evros.
8- Slavic-Turkic bilingual speakers from Serbia to Komotini and Xanthi.
9- Albanians from Serbia to Evros.



With my current sample size, Xanthi has its own cluster between Komotini and Drama. This should point out that native Turks of Xanthi are still dominant. South part of Komotini(Ovalılar) are the same as Xanthi, and Northern part of Komotini(Dağlılar-Yakalılar) similar to Kardzhali. South part of Evros, Alexandroupoli is in the same cluster as Drama. North part of Evros, Sofulu, similar to Edirne and Ivaylovgrad. Yet this result from Kestanlik is in the Alexandroupoli range.

Our village was in the Yakalılar group, and it was not present in 1530. There are some people who aware of their migration to Western Thrace, but some claim to be native of Western Thrace. I believe there are mainly Turks who came from Bulgaria, but there should be some natives too.

For the source of Turkic admixture, I can say that the recent migration of Crimean Tatars has no great influence on the region. But the former migrations of Tatars(Erken göçte Oğuzlar ile birlikte gelenler, Aktav vs.) may have a great influence here. Because the location they settled is now empty, and the most reasonable explanation of their disappearing may be building the Kardzhali.(Kırcaali 1800'lerden önce yoktu) A migration route to the East, of course, will target Komotini as well. I don't know if you see my thread "Early Turkic forms of Turkey Turks", there my sample was getting some additional Siberian/Ugric like ancestry, and modeling like 60-70% Oghuz if I recall correctly. But I'm an outlier in this sense because half of my Turkic admixture comes from Provadia.


I'm also posting these three to compare. They should be descendants of the Turks who settled region between 1360-1530.

Xanthi + South Komotini

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.01
2 North_European 26.74
3 Atlantic_Med 19.79
4 Southwest_Asian 8.48
5 Gedrosia 4.99
6 Siberian 3.77
7 Northwest_African 2.55
8 East_Asian 1.82
9 East_African 0.35
10 Sub_Saharan 0.34
11 Southeast_Asian 0.17


Drama + Northern Kavala

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 27.82
2 Caucasus 27.69
3 Atlantic_Med 25.93
4 Southwest_Asian 10.32
5 Gedrosia 4.41
6 Siberian 3.19
7 Southeast_Asian 0.64


Alexandroupoli

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 30.43
2 Atlantic_Med 26.03
3 Caucasus 24.68
4 Gedrosia 6.78
5 Southwest_Asian 5.96
6 Siberian 4.43
7 South_Asian 1.17
8 Southeast_Asian 0.27
9 East_Asian 0.25

[Kaspias]

Your ancestors definitely came unmixed to balkan, maybe one of the first rebellious turkmens. I read here once whetzer your have oghuz or tatar(kiptchak) influence. I don’t eliminate the probability of tatar influence but i think you have mostly oghuz. Let dont forget that tatars where also influenced by oghuzes. You have in proportional to eastasian that ammount of gedrosia and south asian admixture which could indicate central asian(turkmenistan uzbekistan) heritage.

I personally think that my Turkic ancestry is a mix of the early Yörüks, the ones who came with Celali Rebellions and also Tatars. But I agree that it is more than half of Oghuz.

We have been investigating with @Thracian to see if Balkan Turks have Anatolian admixture or not for almost two years. We were able to detect a negligible amount(1-2%) of Anatolian in some, but most scored none. On the other hand, Balkan Turks have a great amount of Iranic-like input comparing to Anatolian Turks. Migration of non-Turk Iranic speaker Alevis following the Celali Rebellion can be an explanation for it. The second option is the migration of Turkic tribes who settled in Iran before entering Anatolia. Whatever it is, all of these admixtures(Early, Late-Celali, Tatar) melted in the same pot.

[Mejgusu]

I personally think that my Turkic ancestry is a mix of the early Yörüks, the ones who came with Celali Rebellions and also Tatars. But I agree that it is more than half of Oghuz.

We have been investigating with @Thracian to see if Balkan Turks have Anatolian admixture or not for almost two years. We were able to detect a negligible amount(1-2%) of Anatolian in some, but most scored none. On the other hand, Balkan Turks have a great amount of Iranic-like input comparing to Anatolian Turks. Migration of non-Turk Iranic speaker Alevis following the Celali Rebellion can be an explanation for it. The second option is the migration of Turkic tribes who settled in Iran before entering Anatolia. Whatever it is, all of these admixtures(Early, Late-Celali, Tatar) melted in the same pot.

The second option is more raelistic, alevism has many roots, but it came from shia turkomans: Turks were islamizated, but they kept many traditions(tengrism) and were influenced by iranian(zoroasterism). This sects stayed different to sunni ottomans to show their loyality to safevid state and a kind of opposition. Alevism(not alavism) is religion of turkoman tribes. Also before migration to anatolia there were settlements in chorasan(like today) but persia were flooded by oghuz tribes. The biggest crisis in domestic policy of the selcuk stat were the dissatisfaction of the iranians about the high ammount of turkish tribes. Probable turks and iranian mixed there before they conquered anatolia.

[Babak]

The second option is more raelistic, alevism has many roots, but it came from shia turkomans: Turks were islamizated, but they kept many traditions(tengrism) and were influenced by iranian(zoroasterism). This sects stayed different to sunni ottomans to show their loyality to safevid state and a kind of opposition. Alevism(not alavism) is religion of turkoman tribes. Also before migration to anatolia there were settlements in chorasan(like today) but persia were flooded by oghuz tribes. The biggest crisis in domestic policy of the selcuk stat were the dissatisfaction of the iranians about the high ammount of turkish tribes. Probable turks and iranian mixed there before they conquered anatolia.

I don't exactly understand what you mean here.

[Mejgusu]

I don't exactly understand what you mean here.

When selcuks conquered persia a high amount of oghuz settlers came too. Many of them settled outside the cities also many came to the cities. You can envisage that many persians werent happy that. Thats what i meant.

[Kaspias]

The second option is more raelistic, alevism has many roots, but it came from shia turkomans: Turks were islamizated, but they kept many traditions(tengrism) and were influenced by iranian(zoroasterism). This sects stayed different to sunni ottomans to show their loyality to safevid state and a kind of opposition. Alevism(not alavism) is religion of turkoman tribes. Also before migration to anatolia there were settlements in chorasan(like today) but persia were flooded by oghuz tribes. The biggest crisis in domestic policy of the selcuk stat were the dissatisfaction of the iranians about the high ammount of turkish tribes. Probable turks and iranian mixed there before they conquered anatolia.

Well yes, I totally agree that. But one would expect that Balkan Turks have same amount of Iranian admixture with Anatolian Turks because of the common Oghuz root, even perhaps less because of Tatar settlements. But look what reality is:

When I extracted Anatolian admixture of Anatolian Turks this is what remains:

Southwest, South, Central: 25% Iranian, 75% Oghuz
Northwest: 15% Iranian, 85% Oghuz
North: 0% Iranian, 100% Oghuz

And when I extract Balkan admixture from Balkan Turks this is what remains:

Balkan: 0% Anatolian, 50% Iranian, 50% Turkic(Siberian-Ugric shifted compared to Oghuz)

Regarding the output, I can say that not all of the tribes are mixed in Iran who settled in Anatolia afterward. Some mixed and added a bunch of Iranian to gene pool but not all. On the other hand, the case is somewhat different among Balkan Turks. We see the effects of Tatars in the Turkic admixture, but how come these people carry 50% Iranian?

[Mejgusu]

Well yes, I totally agree that. But one would expect that Balkan Turks have same amount of Iranian admixture with Anatolian Turks because of the common Oghuz root, even perhaps less because of Tatar settlements. But look what reality is:

When I extracted Anatolian admixture of Anatolian Turks this is what remains:

Southwest, South, Central: 25% Iranian, 75% Oghuz
Northwest: 15% Iranian, 85% Oghuz
North: 0% Iranian, 100% Oghuz

And when I extract Balkan admixture from Balkan Turks this is what remains:

Balkan: 0% Anatolian, 50% Iranian, 50% Turkic(Siberian-Ugric shifted compared to Oghuz)

Regarding the output, I can say that not all of the tribes are mixed in Iran who settled in Anatolia afterward. Some mixed and added a bunch of Iranian to gene pool but not all. On the other hand, the case is somewhat different among Balkan Turks. We see the effects of Tatars in the Turkic admixture, but how come these people carry 50% Iranian?

What means iranian in this case? Iran iranians? Or tadjikistani?

[Mejgusu]

Well yes, I totally agree that. But one would expect that Balkan Turks have same amount of Iranian admixture with Anatolian Turks because of the common Oghuz root, even perhaps less because of Tatar settlements. But look what reality is:

When I extracted Anatolian admixture of Anatolian Turks this is what remains:

Southwest, South, Central: 25% Iranian, 75% Oghuz
Northwest: 15% Iranian, 85% Oghuz
North: 0% Iranian, 100% Oghuz

And when I extract Balkan admixture from Balkan Turks this is what remains:

Balkan: 0% Anatolian, 50% Iranian, 50% Turkic(Siberian-Ugric shifted compared to Oghuz)

Regarding the output, I can say that not all of the tribes are mixed in Iran who settled in Anatolia afterward. Some mixed and added a bunch of Iranian to gene pool but not all. On the other hand, the case is somewhat different among Balkan Turks. We see the effects of Tatars in the Turkic admixture, but how come these people carry 50% Iranian?

What means iranian in this case? Iran iranians? Or tadjikistani?

[Kaspias]

What means iranian in this case? Iran iranians? Or tadjikistani?

Farsi.

[Kyp]

Well yes, I totally agree that. But one would expect that Balkan Turks have same amount of Iranian admixture with Anatolian Turks because of the common Oghuz root, even perhaps less because of Tatar settlements. But look what reality is:

When I extracted Anatolian admixture of Anatolian Turks this is what remains:

Southwest, South, Central: 25% Iranian, 75% Oghuz
Northwest: 15% Iranian, 85% Oghuz
North: 0% Iranian, 100% Oghuz

And when I extract Balkan admixture from Balkan Turks this is what remains:

Balkan: 0% Anatolian, 50% Iranian, 50% Turkic(Siberian-Ugric shifted compared to Oghuz)

Regarding the output, I can say that not all of the tribes are mixed in Iran who settled in Anatolia afterward. Some mixed and added a bunch of Iranian to gene pool but not all. On the other hand, the case is somewhat different among Balkan Turks. We see the effects of Tatars in the Turkic admixture, but how come these people carry 50% Iranian?

What if Oghuz were even more Iranian than believed and some of the Iranian in Central Anatolia gets eaten by the ancient Anatolian component because the split of Western and Iranian is easier? It looks like the more West you go the more Iranian the input becomes.

[Mejgusu]

Farsi.

Then thats really interesting. Maybe Someone whos more azerbaijani or chorasani shifted?

[Kaspias]

What if Oghuz were even more Iranian than believed and some of the Iranian in Central Anatolia gets eaten by the ancient Anatolian component because the split of Western and Iranian is easier? It looks like the more West you go the more Iranian the input becomes.

This would make sense. But how are we going to explain the process of being more Iranic of Oghuz? Shouldn't they be in the same parallel with Göktürk samples? I mean there should be an interaction with Iranic between the period Göktürk and Oghuz Yabgu. Was there?


Then thats really interesting. Maybe Someone whos more azerbaijani or chorasani shifted?

It may be the reason why see no Iranian on North is they didn't take migration after the settlement of the Turks who formed Beyliks. For the rest of the regions, Timurid and Mongol invasions pushed Turkmen tribes who settled in Eastern Anatolia and Iran to the West, this should be a source for Iranian admixture in Anatolia. Or maybe something else. But it is clear to me that there were neither mass Iranian mixing nor first Turk settled was carrying Iranian. That admixture should be introduced to the gene pool with further waves of migrations. Same applies to Balkan Turks:

These Balkan Turks are an average of the who live in the regions only inhabited by first Turkic settlers of Balkans and their village was present before the 1500s. Check their Gedrosia score, they show no Iranian admixture and quite low East Eurasian:

Xanthi + South Komotini

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.01
2 North_European 26.74
3 Atlantic_Med 19.79
4 Southwest_Asian 8.48
5 Gedrosia 4.99
6 Siberian 3.77
7 Northwest_African 2.55
8 East_Asian 1.82
9 East_African 0.35
10 Sub_Saharan 0.34
11 Southeast_Asian 0.17


Drama + Northern Kavala

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 27.82
2 Caucasus 27.69
3 Atlantic_Med 25.93
4 Southwest_Asian 10.32
5 Gedrosia 4.41
6 Siberian 3.19
7 Southeast_Asian 0.64


And check this result(regular Balkan Turk)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.47
2 North_European 22.23
3 Atlantic_Med 20.59
4 Gedrosia 9.55
5 Southwest_Asian 8.88
6 Siberian 6.27
7 East_Asian 2.64
8 South_Asian 2.31
9 Northwest_African 0.63
10 East_African 0.41


These first Turks should be outnumbered by natives which caused such reduced East Eurasian admixture. This is also one of the reasons why Balkan Turks have a small amount of East Eurasian. On the other hand, I predict almost half of these early Turks already died during wars, because they were the only manpower of Turks in Balkans during that time period. After all further waves brought fresh East Eurasian to the region and introduced Iranic.

[Fedora]

Turk from Sinop, very different result from regular Pontic Greeks...High North European with high Caucasus,also low Southwest Asian compared to Rums:D

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 43.08
2 North_European 14.22
3 Atlantic_Med 13.80
4 Gedrosia 12.74
5 Southwest_Asian 10.00
6 East_Asian 1.93
7 Siberian 1.83
8 Northwest_African 1.72


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish_Dodecad @ 6.251087
2 Turks_Behar @ 7.923931
3 Kumyks_Yunusbayev @ 15.941479
4 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 16.201349
5 Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 16.591341
6 Cypriots_Behar @ 17.152456
7 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 17.658775
8 Lebanese_Behar @ 18.078156
9 Georgia_Jews_Behar @ 18.436911
10 Armenian_Dodecad @ 18.560379
11 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev @ 18.784012
12 Greek_Dodecad @ 19.141048
13 Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 19.149698
14 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 19.360601
15 Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 19.468929
16 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar @ 19.692616
17 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 19.915098
18 Assyrian_Dodecad @ 19.970732
19 Armenians_Behar @ 20.239628
20 Kurd_Dodecad @ 20.376245

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kumyks_Yunusbayev +50% Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 2.676357

[Mejgusu]

This would make sense. But how are we going to explain the process of being more Iranic of Oghuz? Shouldn't they be in the same parallel with Göktürk samples? I mean there should be an interaction with Iranic between the period Göktürk and Oghuz Yabgu. Was there?



It may be the reason why see no Iranian on North is they didn't take migration after the settlement of the Turks who formed Beyliks. For the rest of the regions, Timurid and Mongol invasions pushed Turkmen tribes who settled in Eastern Anatolia and Iran to the West, this should be a source for Iranian admixture in Anatolia. Or maybe something else. But it is clear to me that there were neither mass Iranian mixing nor first Turk settled was carrying Iranian. That admixture should be introduced to the gene pool with further waves of migrations. Same applies to Balkan Turks:
And check this result(regular Balkan Turk)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 26.47
2 North_European 22.23
3 Atlantic_Med 20.59
4 Gedrosia 9.55
5 Southwest_Asian 8.88
6 Siberian 6.27
7 East_Asian 2.64
8 South_Asian 2.31
9 Northwest_African 0.63
10 East_African 0.41


These first Turks should be outnumbered by natives which caused such reduced East Eurasian admixture. This is also one of the reasons why Balkan Turks have a small amount of East Eurasian. On the other hand, I predict almost half of these early Turks already died during wars, because they were the only manpower of Turks in Balkans during that time period. After all further waves brought fresh East Eurasian to the region and introduced Iranic.

Gedrosian admixture is definitely indicates oghuz impact. I one read one group of oghuzes heavily iranic influenced(before islamisation). Maybe these were oghuzes who came from horasan to anatolia, after that they rebelled and resettled to balkan. Oghuzes were diverse, some probably score more iranic some more northeasteuropean influence. Both both definitely have both of them.


It may be the reason why see no Iranian on North is they didn't take migration after the settlement of the Turks who formed Beyliks. For the rest of the regions, Timurid and Mongol invasions pushed Turkmen tribes who settled in Eastern Anatolia and Iran to the West, this should be a source for Iranian admixture in Anatolia. Or maybe something else. But it is clear to me that there were neither mass Iranian mixing nor first Turk settled was carrying Iranian. That admixture should be introduced to the gene pool with further waves of migrations. Same applies to Balkan Turks:

Just a nice information: When Timur fight against ottomans, many turkoman tribes fought for timur, especially those frome karamanid area. karamanlides wanted to be independent and didnt very like ottomans.

[Fedora]

Gedrosian admixture is definitely indicates oghuz impact. I one read one group of oghuzes heavily iranic influenced(before islamisation). Maybe these were oghuzes who came from horasan to anatolia, after that they rebelled and resettled to balkan. Oghuzes were diverse, some probably score more iranic some more northeasteuropean influence. Both both definitely have both of them.



Just a nice information: When Timur fight against ottomans, many turkoman tribes fought for timur, especially those frome karamanid area. karamanlides wanted to be independent and didnt very like ottomans.

Göktürk sample has 25% Gedrosia, a Kipchak sample has 17% Gedrosia, we can see it was high in Central Asia. The Göktürk had no CHG ancestry and scored 0% Caucasus though

[Kyp]

Gedrosian admixture is definitely indicates oghuz impact. I one read one group of oghuzes heavily iranic influenced(before islamisation). Maybe these were oghuzes who came from horasan to anatolia, after that they rebelled and resettled to balkan. Oghuzes were diverse, some probably score more iranic some more northeasteuropean influence. Both both definitely have both of them.

I think so too.



Just a nice information: When Timur fight against ottomans, many turkoman tribes fought for timur, especially those frome karamanid area. karamanlides wanted to be independent and didnt very like ottomans.

Many Turkomans deserted Iranian armies during Mongol invasion, because they thought Mongols would spare them. They got slaughtered instead.

Timur might be a different story.

[Mejgusu]

Göktürk sample has 25% Gedrosia, a Kipchak sample has 17% Gedrosia, we can see it was high in Central Asia. The Göktürk had no CHG ancestry and scored 0% Caucasus though

But proportionally he looks like oghuz influenced. They got more gedrosia than kipchaks.


Many Turkomans deserted Iranian armies during Mongol invasion, because they thought Mongols would spare them. They got slaughtered instead.

indeed very sad. But thats history, many dont understand. just because of that i am not hating mongolians, they are another important people which turkish historians schould follow up with them to find out who we are. The same count for iranians.


Timur might be a different story.

Yes i think so. He wasnt interested in anatolia, so he didnt wasted force there.

[Babak]

When selcuks conquered persia a high amount of oghuz settlers came too. Many of them settled outside the cities also many came to the cities. You can envisage that many persians werent happy that. Thats what i meant.

I dont think so bro. Seljuks and Persians were mostly allies.

[Mejgusu]

I dont think so bro. Seljuks and Persians were mostly allies.

You think the persians were happy about the flood of foreign people? many turkish and western historians say that was a big issue for selcuks. Normal people dont care about the ally of your state,if you have to deal with that amount of migrants who came in a little while.

[Halgurd]

You think the persians were happy about the flood of foreign people? many turkish and western historians say that was a big issue for selcuks. Normal people dont care about the ally of your state,if you have to deal with that amount of migrants who came in a little while.

Turks are called Tork e khar in Iran.

[Kyp]

Turks are called Tork e khar in Iran.

As if Kurds are viewed better in Iran..

[Dr_Maul]

I dont think so bro. Seljuks and Persians were mostly allies.

Yeah they were allied to the Persian state (Samanids) but when they were overthrown by the Mamluk Slaves and became Ghaznavids they had to invade and a lot of them migrated, I assume most people didn't agree with it even though the Seljuks were basically fully persianized at that point

[Dr_Maul]

As if Kurds are viewed better in Iran..

Yeah its true I really don't know many people who view Azeris negatively in Iran, Kurds on the other hand...

[Halgurd]

As if Kurds are viewed better in Iran..

loool why you so offended? I'm stating the reality in Iran. Turks are not viewed in a good way.

Kurds and Persians get a long very well at a cultural level actually, but not always at a political level.

[Halgurd]

Yeah its true I really don't know many people who view Azeris negatively in Iran, Kurds on the other hand...

I'm saying many call them Tork e Khar. If you've been to Iran you would know this.

[Dr_Maul]

loool why you so offended? I'm stating the reality in Iran. Turks are not viewed in a good way.

Kurds and Persians get a long very well at a cultural level actually, but not always at a political level.

Kurds are not seen as different from Persians usually especially where both populations are mixed a lot but unfortunately there are people especially in the deep center like Isfahan and etc who view Kurds negatively. And yes Turks are seen negatively by some people but I don't think it applies to Azeris tbh I know most people are quite friendly with them especially with the mass amount of Azeri Persian race mixing which happens

[Kyp]

I'm saying many call them Tork e Khar. If you've been to Iran you would know this.

I'm well aware of it

[Halgurd]

Kurds are not seen as different from Persians usually especially where both populations are mixed a lot but unfortunately there are people especially in the deep center like Isfahan and etc who view Kurds negatively. And yes Turks are seen negatively by some people but I don't think it applies to Azeris tbh I know most people are quite friendly with them especially with the mass amount of Azeri Persian race mixing which happens

I'm not sure about Azeris, I never mentioned them. They are basically the political establishment in Iran anyways.

But Turks have always been seen negatively in Iran. Many Iranian Parliamentarians were very vocal about the Turkish invasions of Kobane and Afrin as well.

[Dr_Maul]

I'm saying many call them Tork e Khar. If you've been to Iran you would know this.

Yes, I’ve heard it but it’s mainly from old people or Persian ethnonationalists, and it mainly depends on where you live. Visiting my dads family in Kermanshah where Kurds are seen no differently than Persians yes the Tork e Khar stuff is high but not other places. And while it seems on a Anthroboards that there is a big split between Turks and Persians, there really isn’t tbh.. living in Tehran everyone goes to Antalya or Istanbul for vacation and had an Azeri aunt or uncle. And as unfortunate as it is, these people especially in Tehran, Isfahan etc sadly view Kurds negatively and it’s completely the governments fault. The direction of hate entirely depends on where you are in Iran.

[Halgurd]

Yes, I’ve heard it but it’s mainly from old people or Persian ethnonationalists, and it mainly depends on where you live. Visiting my dads family in Kermanshah where Kurds are seen no differently than Persians yes the Tork e Khar stuff is high but not other places. And while it seems on a Anthroboards that there is a big split between Turks and Persians, there really isn’t tbh.. living in Tehran everyone goes to Antalya or Istanbul for vacation and had an Azeri aunt or uncle. And as unfortunate as it is, these people especially in Tehran, Isfahan etc sadly view Kurds negatively and it’s completely the governments fault. The direction of hate entirely depends on where you are in Iran.

Yep I know that Iranians love to go Turkey for holiday. But so do many Iraqi Kurds. It doesn't mean they have any love for the people or the country. Many go there because it's nice, close by and cheap.

I am not sure about Tehran or Isfahan tbh, I've never heard of it but I'm glad you brought that up.

[Kyp]

I'm not sure about Azeris, I never mentioned them. They are basically the political establishment in Iran anyways.

But Turks have always been seen negatively in Iran. Many Iranian Parliamentarians were very vocal about the Turkish invasions of Kobane and Afrin as well.

This Turk-e-khar BS is mainly used in an Iranian context so it defenitely was aimed at Azeris primarily. Maybe it has even older roots (quite possibly).
And yes Azeris are viewed very well in iran as long as they act totally "Forsi":

https://i.imgur.com/ZD9pPk3.jpg

[Dr_Maul]

Yep I know that Iranians love to go Turkey for holiday. But so do many Iraqi Kurds. It doesn't mean they have any love for the people or the country. Many go there because it's nice, close by and cheap.

I am not sure about Tehran or Isfahan tbh, I've never heard of it but I'm glad you brought that up.

Yeah its unfortunate but its the view that they have, most see Azeris positively but see all other minorities including Kurds as 'Dahatis' and drug smugglers.. most of them have only been to their hometown or have maybe been to Ardabil or Tabriz so its not surprising that they are living in their own ignorant bubble

[Babak]

You think the persians were happy about the flood of foreign people? many turkish and western historians say that was a big issue for selcuks. Normal people dont care about the ally of your state,if you have to deal with that amount of migrants who came in a little while.

Understandable, however, they integrated into society and became patrons of Persian culture and language. This is why Azerbaijanis exist as an ethnic group. They are known as 'Turks of Iranian history'.

[Kyp]

Understandable, however, they integrated into society and became patrons of Persian culture and language. This is why Azerbaijanis exist as an ethnic group. They are known as 'Turks of Iranian history'.

Yes but this happened much later. If everyone would have integrated they wouldn't went into Anatolia. I think he is referring to the beginning of the Steppe migrations into Khwarezmia and Khorasan.

But I too dont see the big issue. Only people who would have problems with it would be Farmers and Iranian nomads. Iran doesn't have too much land for too many Pastoralists/Nomads I think that's why most went further to the West, some stayed in Northwest.

[Babak]

Yes but this happened much later. If everyone would have integrated they wouldn't went into Anatolia. I think he is referring to the beginning of the Steppe migrations into Khwarezmia and Khorasan.

But I too dont see the big issue. Only people who would have problems with it would be Farmers and Iranian nomads.

Oh ok, i see.

Yea, the urban population didnt seem to be too concerned, but its obvious nomads wouldnt be too happy about it.

With that said, i dont understand what the issue between azeris persians and kurds are. These ethnic groups have been living together for a very long time and worked together to keep the Iranian nation alive.

[Babak]

Yes but this happened much later. If everyone would have integrated they wouldn't went into Anatolia. I think he is referring to the beginning of the Steppe migrations into Khwarezmia and Khorasan.

But I too dont see the big issue. Only people who would have problems with it would be Farmers and Iranian nomads. Iran doesn't have too much land for too many Pastoralists/Nomads I think that's why most went further to the West, some stayed in Northwest.

I believe most Turkic tribes settled in Khorasan and Iranian azerbaijan.

[Dr_Maul]

Oh ok, i see.

Yea, the urban population didnt seem to be too concerned, but its obvious nomads wouldnt be too happy about it.

With that said, i dont understand what the issue between azeris persians and kurds are. These ethnic groups have been living together for a very long time and worked together to keep the Iranian nation alive.

I think most educated people view all ethnic groups in Iran positively, but there are exceptions
Average Persian-> Views Azeris positively, most other people indifferently or negatively
Iranicist Persian-> Views Kurds, Lurs etc as 'Iranic Brothers' views Azeris negatively
Ethnonationalist Persian->Views all minorities as a liability and extra baggage, thinks Persians are the only civilized Iranians
Average Kurd-> Probably Views Persians, Lurs positively and Azeris/Turks in general negatively
Iranicist Kurd-> Views Turks negatively, thinks Kurdish lands in Turkey etc should be part of Greater Iran
Nationalist Kurd-> Views Turks negatively, views Persians negatively for occupying their land
I'm not sure about Azeris, I have not really lived around many of them

[Dr_Maul]

Edit: I forgot the last type
Normal Person: Appreciates all Ethnic groups in Iran for what they contribute to our culture and history

[Kyp]

I think most educated people view all ethnic groups in Iran positively, but there are exceptions
Average Persian-> Views Azeris positively, most other people indifferently or negatively
Iranicist Persian-> Views Kurds, Lurs etc as 'Iranic Brothers' views Azeris negatively
Ethnonationalist Persian->Views all minorities as a liability and extra baggage, thinks Persians are the only civilized Iranians
Average Kurd-> Probably Views Persians, Lurs positively and Azeris/Turks in general negatively
Iranicist Kurd-> Views Turks negatively, thinks Kurdish lands in Turkey etc should be part of Greater Iran
Nationalist Kurd-> Views Turks negatively, views Persians negatively for occupying their land
I'm not sure about Azeris, I have not really lived around many of them

Same with Azeris, educated normal people view all Iranian groups positively but also Turkey and Azerbaijan.
There are some fractions of Pan-Turkists and Nationalistic Iranians who either view Persians/Kurds or Turkey/Azerbaijan negatively but only for political reasons.

And of course Azeris don't like to get insulted for speaking or being "Tork"

[Halgurd]

@Dr Maul

Iranicist Kurds are basically non existent in reality and exist on the internet only.
The average Kurd, as well as many nationalist Kurds, see Iranians as our cultural cousins.

@Babak
The issue between Kurds and Persians is that we have negative historic memories, especially the Battle of Dimdim and the Republic of Mahabad and ofc today there are many political differences. Other than that culturally we don't seem to have any issues and many of us recognise our similarities in that sense.

[Dr_Maul]

Same with Azeris, educated normal people view all Iranian groups positively but also Turkey and Azerbaijan.
There are some fractions of Pan-Turkists and Nationalistic Iranians who either view Persians/Kurds or Turkey/Azerbaijan negatively but only for political reasons.

And of course Azeris don't like to get insulted for speaking or being "Tork"

Yeah although the unfortunate truth is that ethnic tensions will always exist, at least while 14 year olds have access to the internet lol.. the current situation in government isn't helping either

[Babak]

@Dr Maul

Iranicist Kurds are basically non existent in reality and exist on the internet only.
The average Kurd, as well as many nationalist Kurds, see Iranians as our cultural cousins.

@Babak
The issue between Kurds and Persians is that we have negative historic memories, especially the Battle of Dimdim and the Republic of Mahabad and ofc today there are many political differences. Other than that culturally we don't seem to have any issues and many of us recognise our similarities in that sense.

Yea of course. Were all a big family bro.

[Mejgusu]

Yes but this happened much later. If everyone would have integrated they wouldn't went into Anatolia. I think he is referring to the beginning of the Steppe migrations into Khwarezmia and Khorasan.

I really dont know, i just know they came to persia.


But I too dont see the big issue. Only people who would have problems with it would be Farmers and Iranian nomads. Iran doesn't have too much land for too many Pastoralists/Nomads I think that's why most went further to the West, some stayed in Northwest.

Many times i read and heard that were a big issue in seljuk state. Probably there were disputes about lands or pasture area.

Btw, have we results of naxcivan azerbaijanis? Ive seen a documentary today, they dont look very different from other, some really looked central asian, like uzbeks or turkmens?

[Kyp]

Btw, have we results of naxcivan azerbaijanis? Ive seen a documentary today, they dont look very different from other, some really looked central asian, like uzbeks or turkmens?


No but four results from Qarabağ, who should be similar

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316703-Karabakh-Azerbaijani-Results

[Kyp]

Azerbaijani from Aghjabadi district:

Gedrosian: 19.94
Siberian: 2.26
Northwest_African: 2.47
Southeast_Asian: 1.89
Atlantic_Med: 8.21
North_European: 9.41
South_Asian 0.92
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 10.02
East_Asian: 4.27
Caucasian: 40.62
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Azerbaijani_Aghjabadi_District
3.60406715 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.53802821 Azerbaijani
4.63316307 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.32158208 Turk_Southeast
6.65610246 Turk_Central_East
7.54633686 Turk_South
7.56374246 Turk_East
7.60310463 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
7.62482787 Zaza
7.84224458 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.19728614 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.53196929 Turk_Anatolia
8.94394767 Turk_Central_West
9.05917215 Turkmen_Iraq
9.97332943 Kurd_Sorani
10.03894915 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
10.92190002 Turk_West_BlackSea
11.26313012 Turk_Southwest
11.27583700 Kurds
11.30816077 Kurd
11.48488137 Iranian
11.79811002 Armenian_East
12.06650322 Uzbekistan_Jews
12.06992958 Lur_Iran
12.07289940 Yoruk

Target: Azerbaijani_Aghjabadi_District
Distance: 1.5829% / 1.58290251 | ADC: 0.25x
79.0 Azerbaijani_Turkey
10.6 Ingush
7.0 Turk_Ahiska
1.6 She
1.4 Mozabite
0.4 Kumyks

[Mejgusu]

No but four results from Qarabağ, who should be similar

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316703-Karabakh-Azerbaijani-Results

Thanks, look like regular azerbaijanis.

[Leto]

Azerbaijani from Aghjabadi district:

Gedrosian: 19.94
Siberian: 2.26
Northwest_African: 2.47
Southeast_Asian: 1.89
Atlantic_Med: 8.21
North_European: 9.41
South_Asian 0.92
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 10.02
East_Asian: 4.27
Caucasian: 40.62
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Azerbaijani_Aghjabadi_District
3.60406715 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.53802821 Azerbaijani
4.63316307 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.32158208 Turk_Southeast
6.65610246 Turk_Central_East
7.54633686 Turk_South
7.56374246 Turk_East
7.60310463 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
7.62482787 Zaza
7.84224458 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.19728614 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.53196929 Turk_Anatolia
8.94394767 Turk_Central_West
9.05917215 Turkmen_Iraq
9.97332943 Kurd_Sorani
10.03894915 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
10.92190002 Turk_West_BlackSea
11.26313012 Turk_Southwest
11.27583700 Kurds
11.30816077 Kurd
11.48488137 Iranian
11.79811002 Armenian_East
12.06650322 Uzbekistan_Jews
12.06992958 Lur_Iran
12.07289940 Yoruk

Target: Azerbaijani_Aghjabadi_District
Distance: 1.5829% / 1.58290251 | ADC: 0.25x
79.0 Azerbaijani_Turkey
10.6 Ingush
7.0 Turk_Ahiska
1.6 She
1.4 Mozabite
0.4 Kumyks
Very low South Asian and "high" East Eurasian (8.4%).

[Kyp]

Very low South Asian and "high" East Eurasian (8.4%).

More Caucasian less Iranian, East Eurasian still looks normal

[Kyp]

Azerbaijani from Khachmaz (Xaçmaz) in the Northeast
Don't know if it's a repost

Gedrosian: 23.18
Siberian: 0.88
Northwest_African: 0.53
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 5.80
North_European: 13.44
South_Asian 1.02
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.16
East_Asian: 2.19
Caucasian: 41.79
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Azerbaijani_Khachmaz
5.51390062 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.18945060 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.20787763 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.40377606 Azerbaijani
7.43215312 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.64179298 Zaza
8.17979217 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.25437734 Kurds
9.43693276 Ingush
10.02664949 Kurd_Sorani
10.11867086 Iranian
10.13160895 Kurd
10.13939840 Turk_East
10.21825817 Turk_Southeast
10.73944133 Turkmen_Iraq
11.37817648 Turk_Central_East
11.40805417 Circassian
11.81033446 Lur_Iran
11.85611656 Kumyks
12.25765883 Turk_South
12.54567256 Iranian_Fars
12.71197074 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
12.80094918 Iran_Mazandaran
12.88695076 Uzbekistan_Jews
13.09915646 Turk_Anatolia

Target: Azerbaijani_Khachmaz
Distance: 1.5147% / 1.51468573 | ADC: 0.25x
71.6 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
8.6 Uzbekistan_Jews
6.8 Georgia_Jews
5.8 Zaza
5.0 Kurds
1.8 Yemen_Jews
0.4 Japanese

[Demhat]

I think most educated people view all ethnic groups in Iran positively, but there are exceptions
Average Persian-> Views Azeris positively, most other people indifferently or negatively
Iranicist Persian-> Views Kurds, Lurs etc as 'Iranic Brothers' views Azeris negatively
Ethnonationalist Persian->Views all minorities as a liability and extra baggage, thinks Persians are the only civilized Iranians
Average Kurd-> Probably Views Persians, Lurs positively and Azeris/Turks in general negatively
Iranicist Kurd-> Views Turks negatively, thinks Kurdish lands in Turkey etc should be part of Greater Iran
Nationalist Kurd-> Views Turks negatively, views Persians negatively for occupying their land
I'm not sure about Azeris, I have not really lived around many of them

I can guarantee you one thing, average Kurd does not view Azeris negatively. And despite acknowledging cultural similarities to Persians doesn't make a siginificant difference to Turks. In fact the average have a higher view of Afghans for being down to earth while Persians (much like Turks) are viewed as a little too "cocky". Azeris and Afghans are generally viewed better as being down to earth. It might be down to Turkeys and Irans numberous attempts of controlling the Middle East.

[Mejgusu]

Azerbaijani from Khachmaz (Xaçmaz) in the Northeast
Don't know if it's a repost

Gedrosian: 23.18
Siberian: 0.88
Northwest_African: 0.53
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 5.80
North_European: 13.44
South_Asian 1.02
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.16
East_Asian: 2.19
Caucasian: 41.79
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Azerbaijani_Khachmaz
5.51390062 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.18945060 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.20787763 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.40377606 Azerbaijani
7.43215312 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.64179298 Zaza
8.17979217 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.25437734 Kurds
9.43693276 Ingush
10.02664949 Kurd_Sorani
10.11867086 Iranian
10.13160895 Kurd
10.13939840 Turk_East
10.21825817 Turk_Southeast
10.73944133 Turkmen_Iraq
11.37817648 Turk_Central_East
11.40805417 Circassian
11.81033446 Lur_Iran
11.85611656 Kumyks
12.25765883 Turk_South
12.54567256 Iranian_Fars
12.71197074 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
12.80094918 Iran_Mazandaran
12.88695076 Uzbekistan_Jews
13.09915646 Turk_Anatolia

Target: Azerbaijani_Khachmaz
Distance: 1.5147% / 1.51468573 | ADC: 0.25x
71.6 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
8.6 Uzbekistan_Jews
6.8 Georgia_Jews
5.8 Zaza
5.0 Kurds
1.8 Yemen_Jews
0.4 Japanese

It seems that the less turkic azerbaijanis are those one of and of the near of dagestan. They are more caucasian shifted.


Very low South Asian and "high" East Eurasian (8.4%).

Azerbaijanis and Anatolian turks have most times nearly the same east asian admixture. Just anatolian turks are more western and azerbaijani turks are more iranian shifted. Western azerbaijanis and eastern A.turks are nearly the same, caucasian shifted turks. i believe there are many azerbaijanis who score 10-15% east asian, maybe more.

[Kyp]

Iraqi Turkmen from Kerkuk:

Gedrosian: 21.99
Siberian: 3.33
Northwest_African: 0.40
Southeast_Asian: 0.71
Atlantic_Med: 9.03
North_European: 6.37
South_Asian 2.72
East_African 1.21
Southwest_Asian: 15.66
East_Asian: 2.08
Caucasian: 36.47
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Iraq_Turkmen
3.81565198 Turkmen_Iraq
4.95122207 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.09987255 Kurd_Sorani
5.21442231 Kurd_Kurmanji
5.38088283 Azerbaijani
5.71615255 Turk_Southeast
6.66586078 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.93821303 Zaza
7.99421041 Lur_Iran
8.12739196 Iranian_Fars
8.33825521 Talysh_Azerbaijan
9.03395262 Kurd
9.47429681 Iranian
9.75392741 Turk_Central_East
9.84308387 Kurds
9.89100602 Turk_South
10.37450240 Iranians
10.52836644 Iran_Central_East
10.54525012 Uzbekistan_Jews
11.14997758 Turk_Central_West
11.15947131 Turk_East
11.21524409 Turk_Anatolia
11.35791354 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.49475968 Iran_Khorasan
13.40533103 Turk_Southwest

Target: Iraq_Turkmen
Distance: 1.0078% / 1.00777241 | ADC: 0.25x
77.2 Turkmen_Iraq
10.4 Turk_Southeast
8.2 Iran_Central_East
2.0 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.4 Nganassan
0.4 Ket
0.2 French_Basque
0.2 Pais_Vasco

[Mejgusu]

Iraqi Turkmen from Kerkuk:

Gedrosian: 21.99
Siberian: 3.33
Northwest_African: 0.40
Southeast_Asian: 0.71
Atlantic_Med: 9.03
North_European: 6.37
South_Asian 2.72
East_African 1.21
Southwest_Asian: 15.66
East_Asian: 2.08
Caucasian: 36.47
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Iraq_Turkmen
3.81565198 Turkmen_Iraq
4.95122207 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.09987255 Kurd_Sorani
5.21442231 Kurd_Kurmanji
5.38088283 Azerbaijani
5.71615255 Turk_Southeast
6.66586078 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.93821303 Zaza
7.99421041 Lur_Iran
8.12739196 Iranian_Fars
8.33825521 Talysh_Azerbaijan
9.03395262 Kurd
9.47429681 Iranian
9.75392741 Turk_Central_East
9.84308387 Kurds
9.89100602 Turk_South
10.37450240 Iranians
10.52836644 Iran_Central_East
10.54525012 Uzbekistan_Jews
11.14997758 Turk_Central_West
11.15947131 Turk_East
11.21524409 Turk_Anatolia
11.35791354 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.49475968 Iran_Khorasan
13.40533103 Turk_Southwest

Target: Iraq_Turkmen
Distance: 1.0078% / 1.00777241 | ADC: 0.25x
77.2 Turkmen_Iraq
10.4 Turk_Southeast
8.2 Iran_Central_East
2.0 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.4 Nganassan
0.4 Ket
0.2 French_Basque
0.2 Pais_Vasco

Wow, i thought they were just turkified lokals. But this ones have visible turkic influence. looks like an azerbaijani, very cool.

[Leto]

A Kurd with slightly elevated North_European

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.49
2 Gedrosia 28.27
3 Southwest_Asian 12.03
4 North_European 9.74
5 Atlantic_Med 5.91
6 South_Asian 4.38
7 Northwest_African 1.42
8 Siberian 1.05

No kit number, only these results.

[Kyp]

Wow, i thought they were just turkified lokals. But this ones have visible turkic influence. looks like an azerbaijani, very cool.

Indeed very similar to Azeris only a bit elevated Levantine/Mesopotamian influence I think

[Kyp]

It seems that the less turkic azerbaijanis are those one of and of the near of dagestan. They are more caucasian shifted.


Yes looks like it. The turkic input of the rest (Rep, Iran, Turkey looks pretty similar, but could vary according to tribe, village etc.

[Mejgusu]

I believe iraqi Turkmens definitely score more eastasian(4-8%) than expected. eastern turks and azerbaijanis sometimes cluster with iraqi turkmens.


indeed very similar to Azeris only a bit elevated Levantine/Mesopotamian influence I think

Maybe thats what iraqi turkems are: Southern shifted people who are most related with eastern and and azerbaijani turks.

[Fedora]

I believe iraqi Turkmens definitely score more eastasian(4-8%) than expected. eastern turks and azerbaijanis sometimes cluster with iraqi turkmens.



Maybe thats what iraqi turkems are: Southern shifted people who are most related with eastern and and azerbaijani turks.
Mixture of Seljuk Turkmen+ Sorani+Local Araps created this genetic profile most likely.

[Kyp]

I believe iraqi Turkmens definitely score more eastasian(4-8%) than expected. eastern turks and azerbaijanis sometimes cluster with iraqi turkmens.



Maybe thats what iraqi turkems are: Southern shifted people who are most related with eastern and and azerbaijani turks.

Yes we have to take into account that the native population of Güney Azerbaycan and North Iraq is pretty similar (Northwest Iranian and Kurdish in Iraq, so unless there isn't a south Iraqi (arab) shift the populations should be somwhat similar.

[Halgurd]

There's defo a difference between Erbili and Kirkuki Turkmens as well.

Erbili Turkmens (who are among my relatives) are very well mixed with Kurds. They speak Kurdish (as well as their own language) and are Sunni.

Kirkuki and Tal Afar Turkmens are mainly Shia I believe (might have to double check if all of them are, but at least a huge number of them are) and are more mixed with the local Arab populations rather than the Kurds. But it also seems that they stick more to their own identity than Erbili Turkmens.

[Fedora]

Wow, i thought they were just turkified lokals. But this ones have visible turkic influence. looks like an azerbaijani, very cool.

How are they turkified when they are tribal and are from Turkmen tribes like Bayat,Döger etc?

[Fedora]

Wow, i thought they were just turkified lokals. But this ones have visible turkic influence. looks like an azerbaijani, very cool.

How are they turkified when they are tribal and are from Turkmen tribes like Bayat,Döger etc?
Thought many are heavily mixed and diluted the ancestry.

[Babak]

It seems that the less turkic azerbaijanis are those one of and of the near of dagestan. They are more caucasian shifted.



Azerbaijanis and Anatolian turks have most times nearly the same east asian admixture. Just anatolian turks are more western and azerbaijani turks are more iranian shifted. Western azerbaijanis and eastern A.turks are nearly the same, caucasian shifted turks. i believe there are many azerbaijanis who score 10-15% east asian, maybe more.

I believe isolated Azerbaijanis score much more east asian such as Afshars and Qarapapaqs.

[Demhat]

I believe isolated Azerbaijanis score much more east asian such as Afshars and Qarapapaqs.

I don't understand the importance of 5-10% Central Asian admixture if 95-90% is genetically identical or at least very similar. Actually I would be shocked if some East Eurasian admixture didn't exist on the Plateau as far back as the earliest Iranic empires. I believe to remember that even some Bronze/Iron Age East Anatolian samples (most likely Iranic because of very high Gedrosia percentages too) showed few percentages of East Eurasian admixture (3-4%). I know that there are some Azeris and Turkmens who can score as high as 15% Central Asian but I think they are rather exception than norm.

[Halgurd]

What I am asking myself who actually gives much about 5-10% Central Asian admixture if 95-90% is genetically identical or at least very similar. Actually I would be shocked if some East Eurasian admixture didn't exist on the Plateau as far back as the earliest Iranic empires. I believe to remember that even some Bronze/Iron Age East Anatolian samples (most likely Iranic because of very high Gedrosia percentages too) showed few percentages of East Eurasian admixture (3-4%). I know that there are some Azeris and Turkmens who can score as high as 15% Central Asian but I think they are rather exception than norm.

I agree with this. It's not necessarily a mark of Turkic ancestry. It may very much be from the early Iranic empires which makes sense given that the first Iranic tribes originate from that area.

[Demhat]

I agree with this. It's not necessarily a mark of Turkic ancestry. It may very much be from the early Iranic empires.

Actually I was not trying to disprove the Turkic origin of this East Eurasian admixture in them. Most of it in Azeris and Turkmens indeed derives very likely from Turkic tribes in Central Asia.

I just don't agree with this notion of East Eurasian being such a "foreign" aspect of the West Asian let alone overal Iranic landscape. The way how it is filtered out to prove or disprove something. I see some Iranians trying to filter it out as some "undesireable" thing as if it didn't exist in their history while it was found in some of the earliest Iranic speakers. While some Turks catching it up to prove their Turkic-ness as if without it they couldn't claim Turkish identity.

[Dr_Maul]

Actually I was not trying to disprove the Turkic origin of this East Eurasian admixture in them. Most of it in Azeris and Turkmens indeed derives very likely from Turkic tribes in Central Asia.

I just don't agree with this notion of East Eurasian being such a "foreign" aspect of the West Eurasian let alone overal Iranic landscape. They way how it is filtered out to prove or disprove something. I see some Iranians trying to filter it out as some "undesireable" thing as if it didn't exist in their history. While some Turks catching it up to prove their Turkic-ness as if without it they couldn't claim Turkish identity.

I think it could be a steppe thing. We know that Scythians and other Iranic steppe people have sometimes been found within mongoloid DNA. Therefore if you are an R1a descendant of one of these it’s possible that you could carry it I suppose

[Halgurd]

Actually I was not trying to disprove the Turkic origin of this East Eurasian admixture in them. Most of it in Azeris and Turkmens indeed derives very likely from Turkic tribes in Central Asia.

I just don't agree with this notion of East Eurasian being such a "foreign" aspect of the West Eurasian let alone overal Iranic landscape. They way how it is filtered out to prove or disprove something. I see some Iranians trying to filter it out as some "undesireable" thing as if it didn't exist in their history. While some Turks catching it up to prove their Turkic-ness as if without it they couldn't claim Turkish identity.

Yes I know. I meant it more from the view that I have high east Eurasian results compared to the average Kurd and people usually try to point this out as Turkic ancestry. But I can name my ancestors back about 7/8 generations and there is not a single known Turk (whether Anatolian Turk, Azeri or Turkmen) amongst my ancestors.

I believe it is much more ancient linked to early migration of Iranic tribes. In my city it is well known that when Cyaxares liberated Erbil from the Assyrians he allowed the Iranic Sagartian tribe to settle the city and the whole district. It may very well be from this period.

[Halgurd]

I think it could be a steppe thing. We know that Scythians and other Iranic steppe people have sometimes been found within mongoloid DNA. Therefore if you are an R1a descendant of one of these it’s possible that you could carry it I suppose

Possibly. I really think this idea that East Eurasian in Iranic populations=Turkic is very ridiculous. If our original forefathers had it then it makes sense for us to have it too.

[Babak]

I don't understand the importance of 5-10% Central Asian admixture if 95-90% is genetically identical or at least very similar. Actually I would be shocked if some East Eurasian admixture didn't exist on the Plateau as far back as the earliest Iranic empires. I believe to remember that even some Bronze/Iron Age East Anatolian samples (most likely Iranic because of very high Gedrosia percentages too) showed few percentages of East Eurasian admixture (3-4%). I know that there are some Azeris and Turkmens who can score as high as 15% Central Asian but I think they are rather exception than norm.

I completely agree, but I wasn't talking about Iranics specifically.

[Leto]

Yes I know. I meant it more from the view that I have high east Eurasian results compared to the average Kurd and people usually try to point this out as Turkic ancestry. But I can name my ancestors back about 7/8 generations and there is not a single known Turk (whether Anatolian Turk, Azeri or Turkmen) amongst my ancestors.

I believe it is much more ancient linked to early migration of Iranic tribes. In my city it is well known that when Cyaxares liberated Erbil from the Assyrians he allowed the Iranic Sagartian tribe to settle the city and the whole district. It may very well be from this period.
You should add your Dodecad to this thread otherwise your posts are deemed off-topic :p

[Halgurd]

You should your Dodecad to this thread otherwise your posts are deemed off-topic :p

I’ve been trying to find my results for a while but without luck. I may just have to upload my 23andme to gedmatch again.

[Leto]

I’ve been trying to find my results for a while but without luck. I may just have to upload my 23andme to gedmatch again.
Or you can use the DNA Studio offline.

[Zoro]

I don't understand the importance of 5-10% Central Asian admixture if 95-90% is genetically identical or at least very similar. Actually I would be shocked if some East Eurasian admixture didn't exist on the Plateau as far back as the earliest Iranic empires. I believe to remember that even some Bronze/Iron Age East Anatolian samples (most likely Iranic because of very high Gedrosia percentages too) showed few percentages of East Eurasian admixture (3-4%). I know that there are some Azeris and Turkmens who can score as high as 15% Central Asian but I think they are rather exception than norm.

Yes according to the extensive formal analysis EurasianDNA did using my mom's Iraqi Kurdish sample using qpAdm and qpWave the results were that Kurd ancestors in the Iron Age about 2000 years ago (Haji-Firuz-IA) had already accumulated about 30% Central Asian (Sarmatian related) since Iran-Chl's time (4500 years ago).

So basically out of the 40% Central Asian modern Kurds have (compared to Iran-Chl), 30% of it already was present by the time of Haji-Firuz-IA. The remainder 10-15% Central Asian Kurds got was after Haji-Firuz-IA. Some of this could be Parthian related and some Turkic related.

[Babak]

Sassanids didn't have much East asian however:

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct


Nor did parthian:

https://i.ibb.co/LgpF5Qg/47228520-208349033382790-1536857418699374592-n.jpg

[Zoro]

Sassanids didn't have much East asian however:

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct


Nor did parthian:

https://i.ibb.co/LgpF5Qg/47228520-208349033382790-1536857418699374592-n.jpg


Yes, but you're forgetting one important fact. The references in the calculator are modern people who probably have more E. Eurasian than Sassanid. Try to use a calculator where the references for the components are not moderns but ancients that hardly have any E. Eurasian . Use a calculator with Anatolia-N or Iran-Chl or Iran-N components and I guarantee you'll see Sassanid score substantial E. Eurasian

[Leto]

Sassanids didn't have much East asian however:

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct

Distance to: Sassanid
6.65560666 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.14205153 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.69040961 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.35496858 Azerbaijani
8.37251456 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.58128778 Iran_Central_East
8.64250542 Iranian
8.78799750 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.85366591 Zaza
9.37118456 Kurd_Sorani

Target: Sassanid
Distance: 2.5687% / 2.56867390 | ADC: 0.5x
50.0 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
29.0 Iran_Central_East
20.8 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.2 Pulliyar

Target: Sassanid
Distance: 1.7024% / 1.70238113 | ADC: 0.25x
51.6 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
23.0 Talysh_Azerbaijan
20.0 Iran_Central_East
2.6 Kurd_Sorani
2.0 Pulliyar
0.8 Georgian_Gurian

[Zoro]

Yes, but you're forgetting one important fact. The references in the calculator are modern people who probably have more E. Eurasian than Sassanid. Try to use a calculator where the references for the components are not moderns but ancients that hardly have any E. Eurasian . Use a calculator with Anatolia-N or Iran-Chl or Iran-N components and I guarantee you'll see Sassanid score substantial E. Eurasian

A good calculator for this would be something with these types of components

ENF
Iran-N
Shamanka-EN
WHG
South Africa-IA
East Africa-IA
South America-IA
AASI

[Demhat]

Sassanids didn't have much East asian however:

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct


Nor did parthian:

https://i.ibb.co/LgpF5Qg/47228520-208349033382790-1536857418699374592-n.jpg

Do we already have Sassanid and Parthian samples? Is there a study about this?

The "Sassanid" sample you showed me had 2% East Eurasian DNA. Not far off from the 3-4% we found in the Iron Age East Anatolian sample. And to be fair aren't we really talking about a average 4-7% of East Eurasian ancestry here anways?

[Dr_Maul]

Sassanids didn't have much East asian however:

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct



Pretty close to mine if I wasn't slightly semitic shifted

Population
Gedrosia 27.49 Pct
Siberian 1.68 Pct
Northwest_African 3.36 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 8.12 Pct
North_European 4.50 Pct
South_Asian 5.04 Pct
East_African 0.64 Pct
Southwest_Asian 13.75 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 35.41 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Demhat]

What kind of Parthian is this? East or West Parthia.

[Demhat]

I would be thankful if someone could tell me from where this "Sassanid" and "Parthian" samples are from and in which study they were tested. I have been waiting for years for old West Iranic samples. And haven't heard of any study or sample yet.

[Kyp]

Do we already have Sassanid and Parthian samples? Is there a study about this?

The "Sassanid" sample you showed me had 2% East Eurasian DNA. Not far off from the 3-4% we found in the Iron Age East Anatolian sample. And to be fair aren't we really talking about a average 4-7% of East Eurasian ancestry here anways?

Isn't the "Parthian" example just the Turkmenistan_IA sample? So not a Parthian result. Too early.

[Demhat]

Isn't the "Parthian" example just the Turkmenistan_IA sample? So not a Parthian result. Too early.

That's what I thought. Turkmenistan IA sample is Dahae at best. Even from actual Parthian period samples from Turkmenistan and Northeast Iranian would be Parni (Scythian tribe) Allot of people are confusing the Parthians with the early Elite of the Parni.

This sample is more Scythian or Massagetae than anything West Iranic.

[Babak]

I would be thankful if someone could tell me from where this "Sassanid" and "Parthian" samples are from and in which study they were tested. I have been waiting for years for old West Iranic samples. And haven't heard of any study or sample yet.

It was posted by Fedora in this thread. He labeled it as parthian because he claimed they wouldn't be much different from that sample, which i don't doubt. The sassanian sample is accurate though.

[Demhat]

It was posted by Fedora in this thread. He labeled it as parthian because he claimed they wouldn't be much different from that sample, which i don't doubt. The sassanian sample is accurate though.

I am sorry to say that but than Fedora is misinformed. An Iron Age sample from Turkmenistan is most definitely not Parthian. I doubt it is even from the Parni Elite. It is also too early to be Parthian

About the "Sassanid" sample, where is it from and from which time? Can I see the actual study that introduced us to this sample?

I have big doubts about the origin of these samples

[Kyp]

I am sorry to say that but than Fedora seems to not be as informed about the timescale and history and origin of this region. An Iron Age sample from Turkmenistan is most definitely not Parthian. I doubt it is even from the Parni Elite. It is also too early to be Parthian

About the "Sassanid" sample, where is it from and from which time? Can I see the actual study that introduced us to this sample?

I have big doubts about the origin of these samples

labelling him Aryan, Early Indo-Iranic would make more sense imo (for now). Ydna is R1a-z93

[Babak]

I am sorry to say that but than Fedora is misinformed. An Iron Age sample from Turkmenistan is most definitely not Parthian. I doubt it is even from the Parni Elite. It is also too early to be Parthian

About the "Sassanid" sample, where is it from and from which time? Can I see the actual study that introduced us to this sample?

I have big doubts about the origin of these samples


Axelredneck posted this, but im not sure where he got it:


Sassanian 1430-1485 CE

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct

Distance to: Ganj_Dareh_His
6.65560666 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.14205153 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.14205153 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.69040961 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.35496858 Azerbaijani
8.37251456 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.58128778 Iran_Central_East
8.64250542 Iranian
8.78799750 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.85366591 Zaza
9.37118456 Kurd_Sorani
9.40927734 Iran_Khorasan
9.41502523 Iranian_Fars
9.78289834 Iran_Mazandaran
10.26444835 Kurds
10.30237351 Kurd
10.42784733 Lur_Iran
11.50329518 Turkmen_Iraq
11.54196690 Turk_Southeast
11.80012288 Iranians
12.93724855 Turk_East
13.45886697 Turk_Central_East
13.74012373 Turk_South
14.20730446 Circassian
14.34555332 Kumyks

[Demhat]

labelling him Aryan, Early Indo-Iranic would make more sense imo (for now). Ydna is R1a-z93

Correct. That's definitely not a Parthian sample. I would consider it Parni tribe but even for that it is a little too early it seems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni

Some early middle Iranic period iranic sample makes more sense.

[Kyp]

Correct. That's definitely not a Parthian sample. I would consider it Parni tribe but even for that it is a little too early it seems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni

Some early middle Iranic period iranic sample makes more sense.

I imagine Parthians more like modern Turkmens without the excess of East Eurasian. But hard to tell without samples.

[Demhat]

Axelredneck posted this, but im not sure where he got it:


Sassanian 1430-1485 CE

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct

Distance to: Ganj_Dareh_His
6.65560666 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.14205153 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.14205153 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.69040961 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.35496858 Azerbaijani
8.37251456 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.58128778 Iran_Central_East
8.64250542 Iranian
8.78799750 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.85366591 Zaza
9.37118456 Kurd_Sorani
9.40927734 Iran_Khorasan
9.41502523 Iranian_Fars
9.78289834 Iran_Mazandaran
10.26444835 Kurds
10.30237351 Kurd
10.42784733 Lur_Iran
11.50329518 Turkmen_Iraq
11.54196690 Turk_Southeast
11.80012288 Iranians
12.93724855 Turk_East
13.45886697 Turk_Central_East
13.74012373 Turk_South
14.20730446 Circassian
14.34555332 Kumyks

Seriously 1430 CE sample while Sassanid Empire (650 CE) was gone 7-800 years earlier :D

Why did you believe that?

[Babak]

Seriously 1430 CE sample while Sassanid Empire (650 CE) was gone 7-800 years earlier :D

Why did you believe that?

I mean, doesn't seem too far off tbh bro. NE euro is higher and a bit less sw asian.

[Dr_Maul]

I imagine Parthians more like modern Turkmens without the excess of East Eurasian. But hard to tell without samples.

I think they'd probably be closer to Tajiks tbh, the Parthians originated from that area anyway. Turkmens and Uzbeks especially are more Chorasmians than anything

[Demhat]

I mean, doesn't seem too far off tbh bro. NE euro is higher and a bit less sw asian.

It's not far off but thats still no Sassanid sample it's 800 years inbetween. Also this sample looks more to be some kind of Iranic sample from the Caucasus than actually Sassanid imo.

[Dr_Maul]

It's not far off but thats still no Sassanid sample it's 800 years inbetween. Also this sample looks more to be some kind of Iranic sample from the Caucasus than actually Sassanid imo.

Yeah I think it looks more like a Mede sample, all things considered

[Zoro]

I imagine Parthians more like modern Turkmens without the excess of East Eurasian. But hard to tell without samples.

I believe the Parni/Parthians were mixed with Scythians and there was diversity within them just like you see with Azeris and Kurds and formed a substantial genetic base for Kurds, Azeris and some other NW Iranians.

[Demhat]

I think they'd probably be closer to Tajiks tbh, the Parthians originated from that area anyway. Turkmens and Uzbeks especially are more Chorasmians than anything

You guys are making a mistake here you are confusing the Parni tribe (East Iranic early Elite) with the Parthians. I doubt that they will look like Tajiks. The East Parthians might appear more similar to Turkmens without excess East Eurasian. but the West Parthians (overall Parthians) will be much closer to Northwest Iranians imo.

The Parthians were a Northwest Iranic tribe and according to Roman and Greek sources descended predominantly from the local Medes who absorbed Scythian tribes among them. The confusion often comes from the fact that the people equote Parthians with Parni.
The Parni started the rebellion and uprising against the Seleucids from the Satrap of Parthia (that's where the name comes from) but the Imperial Parthian people were predominantly descended of Northwest Iranic speaking tribes (mainly Medes).


Before Arsaces I founded the Arsacid Dynasty, he was chieftain of the Parni, an ancient Central-Asian tribe of Iranian peoples and one of several nomadic tribes within the confederation of the Dahae.[14] The Parni most likely spoke an eastern Iranian language, in contrast to the northwestern Iranian language spoken at the time in Parthia.[15]

We clearly see a discontinuity of the early Parni (early Elite) and the later Parthians here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni_conquest_of_Parthia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni

[Babak]

You guys are making a mistake here you are confusing the Parni tribe (East Iranic early Elite) with the Parthians. I doubt that they will look like Tajiks. The East Parthians might appear more similar to Turkmens without excess East Eurasian. but the West Parthians (overall Parthians) will be much closer to Northwest Iranians imo.

The Parthians were a Northwest Iranic tribe and according to Roman and Greek sources descended predominantly from the local Medes. The confusion often comes from the fact that the people equote Parthians with Parni.



We clearly see a discontinuity of the early Parni (early Elite) and the later Parthians here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni_conquest_of_Parthia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni

Here's something



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f740_B13UU&t=13s

[Dr_Maul]

You guys are making a mistake here you are confusing the Parni tribe (East Iranic early Elite) with the Parthians. I doubt that they will look like Tajiks. The East Parthians might appear more similar to Turkmens without excess East Eurasian. but the West Parthians (overall Parthians) will be much closer to Northwest Iranians imo.

The Parthians were a Northwest Iranic tribe and according to Roman and Greek sources descended predominantly from the local Medes. The confusion often comes from the fact that the people equote Parthians with Parni.



We clearly see a discontinuity of the early Parni (early Elite) and the later Parthians here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni_conquest_of_Parthia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parni


hmmm yeah I think you're right

[Demhat]

Yeah I think it looks more like a Mede sample, all things considered

Could be a Mede or something similar from modern Azerbaijan or Khorasan yes. But as long as we don't have real samples from the correct timeframe we will never know.

[Demhat]

Here's something



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f740_B13UU&t=13s

Thanks I will watch it.

[Kyp]

Could be a Mede or something similar from modern Azerbaijan or Khorasan yes. But as long as we don't have real samples from the correct timeframe we will never know.

It's best to just call it Medieval Iranian

[Zoro]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsaces_I_of_Parthia


Parthia was under considerable Parni influence.[11] The Parni were not the only to migrate to Parthia, as the region was constantly receiving new waves of Iranian migrants from the north.[13]

The Parni were an eastern Iranian tribe, who practised Iranian polytheism.[14] By the middle of the 3rd-century BC, however, they had been assimilated into the local Parthian culture; they adopted Parthian, a north-western Iranian language, and became adherents of the Zoroastrianism religion, even giving themselves Zoroastrian names, such as Arsaces' father, Phriapites, whose name was derived from Avestan *Friya pitā ("father-lover").[4][14][15][a] Arsaces himself was probably born and raised in Parthia, speaking the Parthian language.[18] According to the French historian Jérôme Gaslain, Arsaces could have arguably spent much of his life in the Seleucid lands, and may even have belonged to the local elite of Parthia.[


Arsaces was a Scythian or a Bactrian chieftain, who became the leader of the Parni, one of the three tribes of the Dahae confederacy of Central Asia.[8] The Dahae relied their strength completely on horseback, and thus possessed an extremely mobile force, which was able to retreat to the south of the Aral Sea when endangered.[9] Because of this, other empires met complications in their efforts trying to control them


https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/part/hd_part.htm


From the northeast of Iran, the Parni advanced toward the frontier of the Seleucid satrapy (administrative district) of Parthia, near the Caspian Sea. In about 250 B.C., they launched an invasion under their leader Arsaces. Known as the Parthians after their successful conquest of the land, they made their own imperial aspirations clear by instituting a dynastic era in 247 B.C., and subsequent rulers assumed the name Arsaces as a royal title.


Most of the extant objects and monuments are from sites at the edges of the Parthian world, in Syria, Mesopotamia, and the Iranian plateau. The art of the Parthian capitals at Hecatompylos (Shahr-e Qumis in northeastern Iran), Ecbatana (Hamadan in west-central Iran) and Ctesiphon (in Iraq) is almost entirely lost. Overall, Parthian art resists a straightforward definition, as it employs styles and motifs from both Hellenistic and earlier Near Eastern traditions that result in innovations in various media

Balochi and Kurdish are under Parthian branch

https://i.imgur.com/vDuXrQM.png

[Kyp]

Some new Azerbaijani samples added:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316789-Azeri-DNA&p=6639165#post6639165

[Demhat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsaces_I_of_Parthia






https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/part/hd_part.htm





Balochi and Kurdish are under Parthian branch

https://i.imgur.com/vDuXrQM.png

Median is to Northwest Iranic literally what Old Persian is to Southwest Iranic. It is Old Proto Northwest Iranic and all modern Northwest Iranic languages/dialects descended from it. Parthian is literally to Northwest Iranic what Sassanid is to Southwest Iranic. It is the middle Iranic version of the Northwest Iranic branch.

I had really hard time explaining some people those facts. Some people literally believe Parthian is Eastern Iranian to this day.



Old Iranic period


The Median language (also Medean or Medic) was the language of the Medes.[2] It is an Old Iranian language and classified as belonging to the Northwestern Iranian subfamily, which includes many other languages such as Azari, Gilaki, Mazandarani, Zaza–Gorani, Kurmanji, Sorani, Kalhori, and Baluchi.[3]

Old Persian is one of the two directly attested Old Iranian languages (the other being Avestan) and it is the ancestor of Middle Persian (the language of Sasanian Empire).



middle iranic

What is known in Iranian linguistic history as the "Middle Iranian" era is thought to begin around the 4th century BCE lasting through the 9th century. Linguistically the Middle Iranian languages are conventionally classified into two main groups, Western and Eastern.

The Western family includes Parthian (Arsacid Pahlavi) and Middle Persian, while Bactrian, Sogdian, Khwarezmian, Saka, and Old Ossetic (Scytho-Sarmatian) fall under the Eastern category.

[Dr_Maul]

Median is to Northwest Iranic literally what Old Persian is to Southwest Iranic. It is Old Proto Northwest Iranic and all modern Northwest Iranic languages/dialects descended from it. Parthian is literally to Northwest Iranic what Sassanid is to Southwest Iranic. It is the middle Iranic version of the Northwest Iranic branch.

I had really hard time explaining some people those facts. Some people literally believe Parthian is Eastern Iranian to this day.



Old Iranic period



middle iranic

You know, there may be another explanation for this
The native Persian dynasties in the 8th-9th centuries like the Tahirids, Saffarids, Samanids were the ones who effectively created 'New Persian', adding in Islamic elements etc. The problem is, these people usually ruled the Iranian plateau + Khorasan (and up to Khwarezm in the case of the Samanids) but never the Zagros and Atropatene regions (where Kurds lived), as well as the caspian coast (where other 'northern' Iranian languages are spoken). These areas were controlled by dynasties like the Buyids, Ziyarids and Sallarids who were all of Daylamite origin (Mazanderani) and who only spoke MIDDLE PERSIAN, the language of Sassanids which was also extremely similar to the Parthian language (as opposed to the New Persian spoken by the muslim Samanids etc). The Balochis also were never really controlled by any of those dynasties rather local rulers who probably spoke middle persian as well. Therefore I think it is possible that Parthian is an east Iranian language, the reason that it is spoke in the west is because the daylamites did not have New Persian as the official language, but rather Middle Persian (Sassanid but also extremely similar to Parthian)

[Fedora]

zazas in turkey also call themselfs daylams btw.

[Demhat]

You know, there may be another explanation for this
The native Persian dynasties in the 8th-9th centuries like the Tahirids, Saffarids, Samanids were the ones who effectively created 'New Persian', adding in Islamic elements etc. The problem is, these people usually ruled the Iranian plateau + Khorasan (and up to Khwarezm in the case of the Samanids) but never the Zagros and Atropatene regions (where Kurds lived), as well as the caspian coast (where other 'northern' Iranian languages are spoken). These areas were controlled by dynasties like the Buyids, Ziyarids and Sallarids who were all of Daylamite origin (Mazanderani) and who only spoke MIDDLE PERSIAN, the language of Sassanids which was also extremely similar to the Parthian language (as opposed to the New Persian spoken by the muslim Samanids etc). The Balochis also were never really controlled by any of those dynasties rather local rulers who probably spoke middle persian as well. Therefore I think it is possible that Parthian is an east Iranian language, the reason that it is spoke in the west is because the daylamites did not have New Persian as the official language, but rather Middle Persian (Sassanid but also extremely similar to Parthian)

I don't quite understand. New Persian influence Parthian to become West Iranic? What has Persian influence on Dailamite to do with Parthian, which is from a different timescale, becoming West Iranic?

Also these classifications are not based on simple loandwords or influences. Linguists are very capable of filtering through it. There are things like grammatical structure that can not be influenced by other branches.

Let's forget about the messed up timelines. This is out of a scientific point of view simply impossible. Parthian has grammatical traits and loudshifts that are hardcore Northwest Iranic and can not be explained by Persian influence because they are different to Persian loudshifts. Such as the v/w-> b shift in Persian or the z-d and J/C-Z (as example Roc/j vs Roz for day/sun) shift.

[Demhat]

There are clear linguistic loudshifts that can be attributed to East vs West Iranic. And there are loudshifts that divide Northwest and Southwest further. Linguists can easily filter loandwords from this, because loanwords apply to single words. Loudshifts apply to whole roots of many words. And the changes are systematic. It is impossible for a Southwest Iranic language to cause a Iranic language of Eastern branch to become Northwest Iranic through influence. Also because the loudshifts in Southwest Iranic are the most divergent. While Northwest Iranic and East Iranic are quite more archaic.

[Demhat]

zazas in turkey also call themselfs daylams btw.

Some in Diyarbakir call themselves Dimli. They also exist among Iraqi Arabs as Al-Dailami. In Northwest Iran among the Kurmanji speakers exists a tribe called the dumbuli. In Sirnak they too existed in ancient writings as Dumbili Boxti as in meaning the Dumbili from Botan. It's a tribe. Like the Alans that exist throughout Kurdistan.

[Dr_Maul]

I don't really understand what you mean. New Persian influence Parthian to become West Iranic? What has Persian influence on Dailamite to do with Parthian, which is from a different timescale, becoming West Iranic?

Also these classifications are not based on simple loandwords or influences. Linguists are very capable of filtering through it. There are things like grammatical structure that can not be influenced by other branches.

Let's forget about the completely messed up timelines. This is out of a scientific point of view simply impossible. Parthian has grammatical traits and loudshifts that are hardcore Northwest Iranic and can not be explained by Persian influence because they are different to Persian loudshifts. Such as the v/w-> b shift in Persian or the z-d and J/C-Z (as example Roc/j vs Roz for day/sun) shift.

I mean that New Persian, the pre-cursor to Farsi, was NOT the lingua franca of Kurdish lands. The language spoken then was still Middle Persian, which was effectively the same as Parthian. Basically I am saying that while the Persian spoke in most of Iran was Islamicized into New Persian by the Samanids, the language spoke in the area where Kurds, Balochis lived was still the same as Middle Persian, which would explain why they are closer

[Demhat]

I mean that New Persian, the pre-cursor to Farsi, was NOT the lingua franca of Kurdish lands. The language spoken then was still Middle Persian, which was effectively the same as Parthian. Basically I am saying that while the Persian spoke in most of Iran was Islamicized into New Persian by the Samanids, the language spoke in the area where Kurds, Balochis lived was still the same as Middle Persian, which would explain why they are closer

Ah now I understand what you mean :)

There is quite a misunderstanding here. The linguistic subgroups don't work like that. middle Iranic refers to the time frame.

Middle Persian wasn't closer to Parthian on these specific traits that define North and South. The Northwest/Southwest split is based on grammatic and loudshifts. Every Iranic language of today is l a new Iranic language, even Kurdish. Just that it belongs to the Northwestern branch. Kurdish shares loudshifts with Parthian that differs from Sassanid. The conncetion between Parthian (Median) and Kurdish is based on archaic, historical loudshift that differs from middle and new Persian.

I don't know how to explain this more properly to you. Even if they had new Persian influence on Kurdish areas the Northwest Iranic languages would still be closer to Parthian

[Dr_Maul]

Ah now I understand what you mean :)

There is quite a misunderstanding here. The linguistic subgroups don't work like that. middle Iranic refers to the time frame.

Middle Persian wasn't closer to Parthian on these specific traits that define North and South. The Northwest/Southwest split is based on grammatic and loudshifts. Every Iranic language of today is l a new Iranic language, even Kurdish. Just that it belongs to the Northwestern branch. Kurdish shares loudshifts with Parthian that differs from Sassanid. The conncetion between Parthian (Median) and Kurdish is based on archaic, historical loudshift that differs from middle and new Persian.

I don't know how to explain this more properly to you. Even if they had new Persian influence on Kurdish areas the Northwest Iranic languages would still be closer to Parthian

Hmmm I honestly have to look over it more, I am not really an expert in the language field... Maybe you are right, but how can Parthian NOT be eastern considering geography? Is there really a Median connection? I don't think its likely tbh

[Babak]

Hmmm I honestly have to look over it more, I am not really an expert in the language field... Maybe you are right, but how can Parthian NOT be eastern considering geography? Is there really a Median connection? I don't think its likely tbh

Its possible that Kurdish is descended from Parthian with median influence.

[Demhat]

Hmmm I honestly have to look over it more, I am not really an expert in the language field... Maybe you are right, but how can Parthian NOT be eastern considering geography? Is there really a Median connection? I don't think its likely tbh

Eastern Iranic is not a geographic term, it overlaps allot with geography but East and West divide is a linguistic term. Royal Scythians and Skoloti from Ukraine and Caucasus lived more West than the Medes the language however belongs to the East Iranic branch. Tajiks live in Central Asia that doesn't change the fact that their language is derived from Middle Persian.
You have to understand that the East living Parthians were just a small group of Scythians known as Parni. The Imperial Parthians were located more West, Their main cities were located in Media. Baghdad was infact one of their capitals.

Also remember The Medes expanded/migrated vastly over the Iranian Plateau all the way into Central Anatolia. It could even be that the original Parni already mixed with Medes as some authors classify the language of Parni like a mix of Scythian and Mede.

[Demhat]

Its possible that Kurdish is descended from Parthian with median influence.

Parthian doesn't really need Median influence it is already predominantly like Median but with Scythian influence. That is down to the Parni tribe coming down to the local Median tribes who had expanded all the way into the East and mixing with them.

Median + Parni (Scythian tribe ) = Parthian.

[Halgurd]

Parthian doesn't really need Median influence it is already predominantly like Median but with Scythian influence. That is down to the Parni tribe coming down to the local Median tribes who had expanded all the way into the East and mixing with them.

Median + Parni (Scythian tribe ) = Parthian.


And Parthian subsequently = Kurdish. Am I correct?

[Demhat]

And Parthian subsequently = Kurdish. Am I correct?

That's one of the more logical explanations, yes. Especially since the Parthians introduced Mithra as the sun deity. And according to world leading figures such as Prof. Kreyenbroek in Iranistic science. Yezidis and Yarsan and to some extend the Alevis are based on Parthian type of Mithraism. You know the importance of the sun among Kurds. The Medes according to Kreyenbroek already worshipped a sun deity. But especially with the Parthians Mithra became the personification of the sun.

[Demhat]

Ardashir in the middle, right Ahura Mazda and left Mithra. You see the sun ray crown around his head?

Ardashir depicted himself with a reason together with Mithra as well Ahura Mazda. To signal to the tribes that he was chosen King of the Parthians as well Persians. Parthians were overhelmingly Mithra (sun) worshippers. Even their first Kings were named Mithridates, literally meaning "given (send) by Mithra"

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Taq-e_Bostan_-_High-relief_of_Ardeshir_II_investiture.jpg

[Mejgusu]

I don't understand the importance of 5-10% Central Asian admixture if 95-90% is genetically identical or at least very similar. Actually I would be shocked if some East Eurasian admixture didn't exist on the Plateau as far back as the earliest Iranic empires. I believe to remember that even some Bronze/Iron Age East Anatolian samples (most likely Iranic because of very high Gedrosia percentages too) showed few percentages of East Eurasian admixture (3-4%). I know that there are some Azeris and Turkmens who can score as high as 15% Central Asian but I think they are rather exception than norm.

Thats wrong, we spoke about eastasian admix. And i really doubt that even that they have low eastasian that it comes from ancient people. Just chorasan iranians and iranians with knowns azerbaijani/turkic ancestors score more than 3% eastasian, and maybe even those people with that low eastasian admix could have far distant turkic ancestors.


I agree with this. It's not necessarily a mark of Turkic ancestry. It may very much be from the early Iranic empires which makes sense given that the first Iranic tribes originate from that area.

What does that means? They have from 20-60% Turkic admixture.Yes, it is depending to from where you are, from which tribe you are and whether you have iranian/caucasian ancestors. Especially the azerbaijani turks dont deny that they are iranic/caucasian influenced. quite the contary they proud of that. Also they are proud of their turkic heritage and they love beeing turkic. For anatolian turks azerbaijanis are a kind of their youth, like "good old time when we were young". Also anatolian turks like me donty deny they iranic influenced culture. So please stop indicating that azerbaijanis are just turkified locals. And if that is right, you have the right to deny that. Also i dont say "Kurd are just kurdified armenians/turkomans/asyrians/jews/arabs etc..." Everybody have to be proud of the ancestors(and we are proud of beeing turkic), we dont deny any iranic influence in us.

[Demhat]

Thats wrong, we spoke about eastasian admix. And i really doubt that even that they have low eastasian that it comes from ancient people. Just chorasan iranians and iranians with knowns azerbaijani/turkic ancestors score more than 3% eastasian, and maybe even those people with that low eastasian admix could have far distant turkic ancestors.





As I wrote in a later comment. It was not my intention to doubt the Turkic-ness of the people and I very much do believe most of the East Eurasian in Azeris and Turkmens there is Turkic derived. I was merely pointing out that allot of people around here are filtering the East Eurasian out as if it is something very foreign while this kind of ancestry did probably exist even in ancient times.

[Kyp]

Thanks, look like regular azerbaijanis.

result from Naxcivan added:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316789-Azeri-DNA/page3

[Mejgusu]

result from Naxcivan added:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316789-Azeri-DNA/page3

Thanks for the link!

[Babak]

As I wrote in a later comment. It was not my intention to doubt the Turkic-ness of the people and I very much do believe most of the East Eurasian in Azeris and Turkmens there is Turkic derived. I was merely pointing out that allot of people around here are filtering the East Eurasian out as if it is something very foreign while this kind of ancestry did probably exist even in ancient times.

Yea pamiris, tajiks, yaghnobis have ancient east eurasian

[Demhat]

Yea pamiris, tajiks, yaghnobis have ancient east eurasian

When we look at some Eastern Saka samples from Central Asia. Yes most of it might actually be from their ancient ancestors.

[Eline]

Yezidis and Yarsan and to some extend the Alevis are based on Parthian type of Mithraism.Ancient pre-Shekh Adi Yezidism is older than Parthians.

[Eline]

Ancient pre-Shekh Adi Yezidism is older than Parthians.To be more clear: the Yezidism has Northern Mesopotamian roots and predate the Medes/Parthians by thousands of years.

[Demhat]

Ancient pre-Shekh Adi Yezidism is older than Parthians.

Yeah that is what I wrote it, roots date back to old Median times which itself had adopted ancient Mesopotamian elements such as planet cult, as by Prof. Kreyenbroek but the Parthian Dynasty changed that old religion in the way of making Mithra the personification of the sun. It literally connected the sun specifically to Mithra. And according to Kreyenbroek who was in Lalish there is a place of a burned down statue which according to him is most likely Mithra since Lalish itself is build the style of old Mithraistic underground shrines.

[Leto]

Half Pontic/Azov Greek, half Balkan Greek

Caucasus 41.14%
Atlantic_Med 19.5%
North_European 17.4%
Southwest_Asian 10.22%
Gedrosia 9.22%
Northwest_African 1.23%
Siberian 0.46%
Sub_Saharan 0.28%
South_Asian 0.23%
Southeast_Asian 0.17%
East_African 0.11%
East_Asian 0.05%

Distance to: Greek
6.21492558 Crimean_Tatar_Coast
8.39525461 Greek_Crete
10.58143658 Ashkenazy_Jews
10.61432749 Italy_Apulia
10.86551886 Turk_West_BlackSea
11.19597249 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
11.38857761 Greek
12.05950662 Ashkenazi
12.21228001 Italy_Calabria
12.55623530 Italy_Sicily
12.58181227 Turk_Central_West
12.64809970 Italy_Campania
13.21866164 Italy_Abruzzo
13.25240733 Turk_Anatolia
13.27311945 Turk_Northwest
13.60744282 Turk_Southwest
13.79426330 Greek_Cappadocia
13.80401029 Turk_Central_East
14.92951439 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
15.03976729 Turk_South

Target: Greek
Distance: 2.5774% / 2.57736521 | ADC: 0.5x
71.8 Crimean_Tatar_Coast
18.2 Greek_Cappadocia
7.8 Ashkenazy_Jews
2.2 Abhkasians

Target: Greek
Distance: 1.3999% / 1.39988911 | ADC: 0.25x
61.4 Crimean_Tatar_Coast
13.8 Ashkenazy_Jews
8.2 Greek_Crete
5.8 Abhkasians
4.8 Cypriots
4.4 Georgian_Gurian
1.6 Greek

Unupdated oracle:

Target: Greek
Distance: 2.9151% / 2.91514190 | ADC: 0.5x
55.2 Greek
41.2 Turkish
3.6 Lezgins

Target: Greek
Distance: 1.4008% / 1.40083632 | ADC: 0.25x
48.4 Greek
22.0 Turkish
12.8 Lezgins
12.0 Ashkenazy_Jews
4.0 Lebanese
0.8 Chechens

[Leto]

Let's not derail the thread too much. When it's page after page without any results it is no good.

[Eline]

Yeah that is what I wrote it, roots date back to old Median times which itself had adopted ancient Mesopotamian elements such as planet cult, as by Prof. Kreyenbroek but the Parthian Dynasty changed that old religion in the way of making Mithra the personification of the sun. It literally connected the sun specifically to Mithra. And according to Kreyenbroek who was in Lalish there is a place of a burned down statue which according to him is most likely Mithra since Lalish itself is build the style of old Mithraistic underground shrines.Yezidis don't use the word 'Mithra', but they use the ancient Mesopotamian/Sumerian (Akkadians took it later from the Sumerians) word for the Sun, 'Shems'. Shamas is a Mesopotamian/Sumerian word for the Sun, and the Yezidis use that word. They say Xode Shems and not Xode Mithra.


Mithra deity itself is derived from the Sumerian Shamas..

[Demhat]

Mithra underground shrine.
https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/Basilica-of-Saint-Clement.jpg

Lalish underground shrine, according to Kreyenbroek there at the end of the tunnel there is a place typical for a Mithra statue and he assumes it was most likely destroyed by Christians
https://www.richardwilding.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Richard-Wilding-Kurdistan-Lalish-010.jpg

[Demhat]

Yezidis don;t use the word 'Mitra', but they use the ancient Sumerian (Akkadians took it later from the Sumerians) word for the Sun, 'Shems'. Shamas is a Suemrian word for the Sun, and the Yezidis use that word. They say Xode Shems and not Xode Mithra.

The reason is because they were chased not only by muslims but earlier also by Christians. And even more earlier by Zoroastrians who literally declared Mithra as a Daeva (evil Gods) and people who worshipped him as Daeva worshippers (evil worshippers, sounds familiar doesn't it?).

They even replaced old angel names by modern Abrahamic names. Using the word Mithra might have brought you into a lot of trouble.

[Eline]

Lalish underground shrine, according to Kreyenbroek there at the end of the tunnel there is a place typical for a Mithra statue and he assumes it was most likely destroyed by ChristiansThere are a lot tunnels and secrets in Lalish. The Yezidism is a closed religion and it is very mysterious to non-Yezidis. Yezidis don't like to share their secrets with the outside word.

Yeah they are many similarities and it is possible that the 'new' religion of the Parthians influenced the Yezidis, like later reforms of Shekh Adi.

But the Parthians took their 'Sun'-worshiping from the much more ancient Mesopotamians/Yezidis.


So, it is possible that the ancient Yezidis first influenced the Parthians and made them believe in a Sun God, but later those Parthians influenced the Yezidis.

[Demhat]

Also take in mind as I wrote Mithra became literally the personification of the sun so Mithra and Sun were interchangable names.

Xode Shams would literally mean "God of Sun or Sun God". Xode Mithra would make no sense. Since it would mean "Mithra God or God of Mithra". it makes no sense to name your God after you have already called him god.

[Demhat]

There are a lot tunnels and secrets in Lalish. The Yezidism is a closed religion and it is very mysterious to non-Yezidis. Yezidis don’t like to share their secrets with the outside word.

Yeah they are many similarities and it is possible that the ‘new’ religion of the Parthians influenced the Yezidis, like later reforms of Shekh Adi.

But the Parthians took their ‘Sun’-worshiping form the much more ancient Mesopotamians.

So, it is possible that ancient Yezidis first influenced the Parthians and made them believe in a Sun God, but later those Parthians influenced the Yezidis.

Most Yezidis literally know little to nothing about their religion pre Sheikh Adi's reforms. I have seen Yezidis who literally believe Sheikh Adi started their religion. So what secrets could they tell "foreigners".

Sorry if I sound rude. But I rather believe a person who has made his Prof and Dr. titles in Iranistics while studying decades long about Iranic culture and language, Yazdanism. Than some Yazidi elders who believe Sheikh Adi brought them their religion.

It's like asking my father about human race who things before Abrahamic religion Humans didn't exist or lived in caves. Old People, especially those who have been forced to accept a "reality" that isn't true, are not very knowledged.

[Leto]

A Gujarati woman, her Jewish husband and their mixed race daughter
Photo (https://secureservercdn.net/184.168.47.225/c4a.531.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/MP-square.jpg)
Facebook (https://facebook.com/profile.php?id=522780780)

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 51.31
2 Gedrosia 37.48
3 Caucasus 4.75
4 North_European 3.24
5 Atlantic_Med 1.41
6 Siberian 1.38
7 Sub_Saharan 0.44

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) 3.54
2 Indian (Dodecad) 3.88
3 GIH30 (Dodecad) 4.96
4 Iyer (Dodecad) 5.05
5 Iyengar (Dodecad) 5.13
6 INS30 (SGVP) 5.96
7 Kshatriya (Metspalu) 6.94
8 Dharkars (Metspalu) 7.27
9 Tharus (Metspalu) 7.51
10 Muslim (Metspalu) 8.37
11 Velamas (Metspalu) 8.47
12 Kanjars (Metspalu) 8.68
13 Cochin_Jews (Behar) 9.93
14 Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) 11.81
15 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) 11.85
16 Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) 12.79
17 Kurumba (Metspalu) 13.68
18 Dusadh (Metspalu) 14.18
19 Piramalai_Kallars (Metspalu) 16.57
20 Kol (Metspalu) 17.4

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.5% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6.5% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 1.92
2 93.5% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6.5% Turks (Behar) @ 1.97
3 68.6% Kurumba (Metspalu) + 31.4% Pathan (HGDP) @ 2.06
4 94% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.12
5 94% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.14
6 94.3% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.14
7 94% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.15
8 94.2% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.8% Armenians (Behar) @ 2.15
9 94.1% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.17
10 93.6% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6.4% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 2.17
11 94.1% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.9% Greek (Dodecad) @ 2.17
12 93.6% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6.4% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.19
13 94% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.2
14 94.2% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.8% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 2.22
15 94.1% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.9% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 2.22
16 94.1% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.9% Adygei (HGDP) @ 2.24
17 94.2% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.8% North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.25
18 94.1% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.9% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 2.26
19 83.2% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) + 16.8% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 2.27
20 94.2% GIH30 (Dodecad) + 5.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.27


# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 33.14
2 Atlantic_Med 24.23
3 Southwest_Asian 16.62
4 North_European 11.74
5 Northwest_African 5.52
6 Gedrosia 4.5
7 East_African 1.43
8 East_Asian 1.38
9 South_Asian 1.15
10 Sub_Saharan 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 6.31
2 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.02
3 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 7.44
4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.97
5 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.99
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 8.53
7 Greek (Dodecad) 12.34
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 13.91
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 16.47
10 Cypriots (Behar) 16.74
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 17.81
12 Lebanese (Behar) 17.96
13 TSI30 (Metspalu) 18.73
14 Turkish (Dodecad) 19.8
15 Syrians (Behar) 20.18
16 Jordanians (Behar) 20.77
17 Turks (Behar) 21.91
18 Palestinian (HGDP) 21.98
19 Druze (HGDP) 22.18
20 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 23.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.22
2 90.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 9.2% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.24
3 89.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.4
4 61.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 38.3% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 3.49
5 91% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 9% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 3.49
6 90.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 9.4% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 3.5
7 89.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 3.56
8 89.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.5% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.59
9 89.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.3% Russian_B (Behar) @ 3.62
10 89.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.2% Belorussian (Behar) @ 3.62
11 89.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.9% Polish (Dodecad) @ 3.63
12 88.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.3% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.64
13 75.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 24.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.76
14 60.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 39.6% Jordanians (Behar) @ 3.78
15 82% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18% Yemenese (Behar) @ 3.84
16 76.8% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 23.2% Romanians (Behar) @ 3.88
17 87% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 13% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.88
18 88.1% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 11.9% Russian_B (Behar) @ 3.9
19 57.5% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 42.5% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 3.97
20 81.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Bedouin (HGDP) @ 3.98


# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 24.84
2 Gedrosia 19.72
3 Caucasus 17.53
4 Atlantic_Med 14.07
5 North_European 9.62
6 Southwest_Asian 9.46
7 Siberian 2.63
8 Sub_Saharan 0.74
9 Northwest_African 0.73
10 East_African 0.66

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 17.66
2 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 25.86
3 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 26.8
4 Pathan (HGDP) 27.13
5 Cochin_Jews (Behar) 28.28
6 Burusho (HGDP) 29.2
7 Iranians (Behar) 29.77
8 Jatt (Dodecad) 30.13
9 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) 30.93
10 Iranian (Dodecad) 31.14
11 Kurd (Dodecad) 32.91
12 Sindhi (HGDP) 33.89
13 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 33.92
14 Kshatriya (Metspalu) 34.06
15 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) 34.7
16 Turks (Behar) 34.77
17 Turkish (Dodecad) 34.88
18 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 35
19 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 35.09
20 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 35.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 48.6% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 4.08
2 52% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 48% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 4.3
3 50.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 49.5% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 4.31
4 56.8% Cochin_Jews (Behar) + 43.2% Greek (Dodecad) @ 4.43
5 51.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 48.5% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 4.47
6 51.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 48.2% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 4.52
7 51.3% Kshatriya (Metspalu) + 48.7% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.52
8 50.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 49.1% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 4.62
9 50.9% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) + 49.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.65
10 53.5% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) + 46.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 4.77
11 51% Kshatriya (Metspalu) + 49% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 4.82
12 50.1% Indian (Dodecad) + 49.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.85
13 50.8% Kshatriya (Metspalu) + 49.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 4.86
14 51% Kshatriya (Metspalu) + 49% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 5.01
15 51.3% Kshatriya (Metspalu) + 48.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 5.05
16 53.2% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) + 46.8% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 5.06
17 50.5% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) + 49.5% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 5.09
18 73.4% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 26.6% French (HGDP) @ 5.1
19 53.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 46.5% INS30 (SGVP) @ 5.11
20 50.3% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) + 49.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 5.17

[Eline]

Also take in mind as I wrote Mithra became literally the personification of the sun so Mithra and Sun were interchangable names.

Xode Shams would literally mean "God of Sun or Sun God". Xode Mithra would make no sense. Since it would mean "Mithra God or God of Mithra". it makes no sense to name your God after you have already called him god.Yezidis actually don't use the word Mitha, but Shems. Also, the Yezidism is much more related to the Mitanni, than to the much later Parthians.

[Leto]

@Eline, leave this thread you banned sock puppet. Or we'll have to report you again. Actually you should have been banned long ago.

[Demhat]

In this Video Kreyenbroek perfectly explains the Mythos of Mithra and the parallels to Yezidi myths. it's German though

-Some notes. Mithra is born from Stone and that Stone is from a cave = reason why Mithra and Yezidi Shrines are underground Cave like.

-In the cave he kills a bull and the sun rises

-Mithra is the lord of the Sun, Fire , Water and Energie = you find a water source, Fire in every corner and the sun symbol throughout Lalish and especially in the Shrine.

Mithra is often depicted with a Snake around him = Snake on the doors of Lalish. It represents the cosmos and Mithra as the center of it (sun).

at 41:51 you see a Mithra shrine with a Mithra statue positioned almost at the end and than you see the Lalish shrine/cave which has a place at the end and it seems like a statue was positioned there previously but ruined by Christians.

He gives much much more connections for me to list them here. If anyone knows how to speak German he should watch it.

He also points out that the West Iranics had a archaic religion based around Sun worshipping with elements from Mesopotamia. This archaic religion included allot of deities, such as Mithra as possible the highest deity, Verethragna, Ahuramazda and even more. And than Zoroastrianism evolved with Ahura Mazda literally taking the position of the highest deity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wn623TlM98

[Demhat]

Yezidis actually don't use the word Mitha, but Shems. Also, the Yezidism is much more related to the Mitanni, than to the much later Parthians.

Did you read what I wrote? Mithra was also one of the highest deities of the Mitanni did you know that? Kreyenbroek points all this out. That on the Western part of the Iranian Plateau all the way into Anatolia and the Levant there was a older Indo_iranic religion that was literally replaced by Zoroastrianism in allot of places.

[Demhat]

The last similarity I will point out here.

In Mithraism there are seven grades of Initiation

https://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Mithraism/m_m/pt8.htm

The Parthians were ruled by their seven great houses. It was always exactly seven tribes that "created"/ruled because it has an important religious meaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Great_Houses_of_Iran

The Yarsan have the seven bodies of creation. Also the point with the pearl must sound very familiar to Yezidis


Belief in a divinity called Ya, the Divine Essence, creator of the world. In the beginning, the world was covered with water. At the bottom of this water was a pearl, at the heart of which was the Divine Essence in a state of “pre-eternity”. It first gave rise to its seven companions, the haftan (seven bodies).

And as a Yezidi someone should know the importance of the number seven


Seven Angels
The seven Angels are the emanations of God, which are said to have been created by God from his own light (Nûr). In this context they have, so to speak, a part of God in themselves. Another word that is used for this is Sur or Sirr (literally: mystery), which denotes a divine essence that the Angels were created from.[21] This pure divine essence called Sur or Sirr has its own personality and will and is also called Sura Xudê (the Sur of God).[22] This term refers to the essence of the Divine itself, that is, God. The Angels share this "essence" from their creator who is God. The seven Angels are sometimes referred to as the "Seven Mysteries".

Creation myth
According to the Yazidi cosmogony, God created the world from a pearl (Dur), that was previously in a stage before the creation named Enzel (the eternity before creation).[25][26]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidism#Seven_Angels


As I wrote in my previous posts Zoroastrianism actually adopted allot and the seven divine entities was one of them.

[Demhat]

Here's something



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f740_B13UU&t=13s

I just now watched the video. And it is not really good. I am not aware of any Achaeamenid sample. The guy is presenting some medievil Iranian sample as Achaeamenid. And the worst part is he is trying to explain the ancestry of Achaeamenids with recent proxy such as BedouinB. It's not like Achaeamenids had real Bedouin ancestry.

Also his explanation of the results are very bad. Some sample picking Hurrian over Achaeamenid doesn't mean they are of Hurrian origin. It simply means the target population prefers a population that resembles the Hurrians more than Achaeamenids. That could be very much Medes for all we know.
In fact how could you make a Hurrian vs Achaeamenid comparison to begin with. Both from very different timeframes. Hurrians from a Bronze Age vs Achaeamenids from the Iron Age doesn't work.

Hurrian related populations played a role in the building of the Achaeamenids. As he correctly pointed out the very big genetic correlation.

The video spreds too much missinformations for my taste. It will make some people believe, that some Iranics are descend of Hurrians while other descend from Achaeamenids. While in reality all have varying amounts of Hurrian related ancestry even if they are descend from Achaemenids, because Hurrians are so old that they qualify as source population for the Achaeamenids themselves.

[Babak]

I just now watched the video. And it is not really good. I am not aware of any Achaeamenid sample. The guy is presenting some medievil Iranian sample as Achaeamenid. And the worst part is he is trying to explain the ancestry of Achaeamenids with recent proxy such as BedouinB. It's not like Achaeamenids had real Bedouin ancestry.

Also his explanation of the results are very bad. Some sample picking Hurrian over Achaeamenid doesn't mean they are of Hurrian origin. It simply means the target population prefers a population that resembles the Hurrians more than Achaeamenids. That could be very much Medes for all we know.
In fact how could you make a Hurrian vs Achaeamenid comparison to begin with. Both from very different timeframes. Hurrians from a Bronze Age vs Achaeamenids from the Iron Age doesn't work.

Hurrian related populations played a role in the building of the Achaeamenids. As he correctly pointed out the very big genetic correlation.

The video spreds too much missinformations for my taste. It will make some people, that some Iranians are descend of Hurrians while other descend from Achaeamenids. While in reality all have varying amounts of Hurrian ancestry even if they are descend from Achaemenids, because Hurrians are so old that they qualify as source population for the Achaeamenids themselves.

https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385.g007&size=large

[Zoro]

I just now watched the video. And it is not really good. I am not aware of any Achaeamenid sample. The guy is presenting some medievil Iranian sample as Achaeamenid. And the worst part is he is trying to explain the ancestry of Achaeamenids with recent proxy such as BedouinB. It's not like Achaeamenids had real Bedouin ancestry.

Also his explanation of the results are very bad. Some sample picking Hurrian over Achaeamenid doesn't mean they are of Hurrian origin. It simply means the target population prefers a population that resembles the Hurrians more than Achaeamenids. That could be very much Medes for all we know.
In fact how could you make a Hurrian vs Achaeamenid comparison to begin with. Both from very different timeframes. Hurrians from a Bronze Age vs Achaeamenids from the Iron Age doesn't work.

Hurrian related populations played a role in the building of the Achaeamenids. As he correctly pointed out the very big genetic correlation.

The video spreds too much missinformations for my taste. It will make some people, that some Iranians are descend of Hurrians while other descend from Achaeamenids. While in reality all have varying amounts of Hurrian ancestry even if they are descend from Achaemenids, because Hurrians are so old that they qualify as source population for the Achaeamenids themselves.

Totally agree. I wouldn't call him an idiot. Clearly he's not a scientist if he's relying exclusively on G25. I would just call him a misinformed amateur who doesn't understand the issues with Davidski's G25.

The Hurrian he's referring to I think is Haji-Firuz-IA ! and the the Archemenid I believe is Hasanlu-IA. Clearly the G25 is giving totally off results. Davidski's G25 is a mish mosh of modern and ancient samples. Obviously the moderns he has in the run to generate coordinates are having all sorts of effects on the test samples.

Anyways if he was a scientist he would use qpAdm and if he had he would have seen the following for Haji-Firuz-IA (courtesy EurasianDNA)

numthreads: 8
## qpAdm version: 634
seed: 1295334595

left pops:
Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG

right pops:
Mbuti.DG
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
Onge_1000G
Russia_MA1_HG.SG
Chinese_Han_1000G
Karitiana.DG
Anatolia_N

0 Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 1
1 Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 4
2 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 2
3 Mbuti.DG 4
4 Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 1
5 Onge_1000G 6
6 Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1
7 Chinese_Han_1000G 211
8 Karitiana.DG 3
9 Anatolia_N 29
jackknife block size: 0.050
snps: 709309 indivs: 262
number of blocks for block jackknife: 711
## ncols: 709309
coverage: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 292807
coverage: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 624648
coverage: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 474638
coverage: Mbuti.DG 690580
coverage: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 654138
coverage: Onge_1000G 704593
coverage: Russia_MA1_HG.SG 493659
coverage: Chinese_Han_1000G 709306
coverage: Karitiana.DG 690550
coverage: Anatolia_N 709269
dof (jackknife): 639.251
numsnps used: 155390
codimension 1
f4info:
f4rank: 1 dof: 5 chisq: 2.444 tail: 0.784873416 dofdiff: 7 chisqdiff: -2.444 taildiff: 1
B:
scale 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.201
Onge_1000G 0.337
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.217
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.919
Karitiana.DG 1.512
Anatolia_N -1.111
A:
scale 723.320
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.613
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 1.274


full rank
f4info:
f4rank: 2 dof: 0 chisq: 0.000 tail: 1 dofdiff: 5 chisqdiff: 2.444 taildiff: 0.784873416
B:
scale 1.000 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.200 0.200
Onge_1000G 0.330 0.790
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.203 -0.685
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.901 1.264
Karitiana.DG 1.520 -0.226
Anatolia_N -1.132 1.794
A:
scale 746.734 3511.876
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.755 -1.065
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 1.196 -0.931


best coefficients: 0.675 0.325
Jackknife mean: 0.675276889 0.324723111
std. errors: 0.069 0.069

error covariance (* 1000000)
4774 -4774
-4774 4774


summ: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 2 0.784873 0.675 0.325 4774 -4774 4774

fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
00 0 5 2.444 0.784873 0.675 0.325
01 1 6 22.856 0.000846255 1.000 0.000
10 1 6 69.650 4.82473e-13 0.000 1.000
best pat: 00 0.784873 - -
best pat: 01 0.000846255 chi(nested): 20.412 p-value for nested model: 6.24515e-06

coeffs: 0.675 0.325

## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.000306 -0.488565
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000229 0.320063
dscore: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4: -0.000132 Z: -0.221248

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Onge_1000G -0.000616 -1.068608
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Onge_1000G 0.000281 0.433744
dscore: Onge_1000G f4: -0.000325 Z: -0.594148

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.001029 -1.356903
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.002090 2.335904
dscore: Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4: -0.000015 Z: -0.020790

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Chinese_Han_1000G -0.001319 -2.756043
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Chinese_Han_1000G 0.001087 1.983415
dscore: Chinese_Han_1000G f4: -0.000538 Z: -1.181505

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Karitiana.DG -0.001515 -2.368054
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Karitiana.DG 0.002453 3.290047
dscore: Karitiana.DG f4: -0.000225 Z: -0.364006

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Anatolia_N 0.000570 1.157302
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Anatolia_N -0.002317 -4.105960
dscore: Anatolia_N f4: -0.000368 Z: -0.780912

gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.221
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Onge_1000G -0.594
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.021
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -1.182
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Karitiana.DG -0.364
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Anatolia_N -0.781
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Onge_1000G -0.326
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.154
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.792
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Karitiana.DG -0.147
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Anatolia_N -0.431
gendstat: Onge_1000G Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.409
gendstat: Onge_1000G Chinese_Han_1000G -0.514
gendstat: Onge_1000G Karitiana.DG 0.180
gendstat: Onge_1000G Anatolia_N -0.087
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.785
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Karitiana.DG -0.294
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Anatolia_N -0.507
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Karitiana.DG 0.748
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Anatolia_N 0.421
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Anatolia_N -0.266

## end of run



So what the G25 shows is irrelevant. Haji-Firuz-IA is actually 67.5% Iran-Chl + 32.5% Central Asian Sarmatian related with a p-value of 0.78 (excellent p-value, model passing p-values used in scientific papers is 0.05)

[Babak]

Totally agree. I wouldn't call him an idiot. Clearly he's not a scientist if he's relying exclusively on G25. I would just call him a misinformed amateur who doesn't understand the issues with Davidski's G25.

The Hurrian he's referring to I think is Haji-Firuz-IA ! and the the Archemenid I believe is Hasanlu-IA. Clearly the G25 is giving totally off results. Davidski's G25 is a mish mosh of modern and ancient samples. Obviously the moderns he has in the run to generate coordinates are having all sorts of effects on the test samples.

Anyways if he was a scientist he would use qpAdm and if he had he would have seen the following for Haji-Firuz-IA (courtesy EurasianDNA)

numthreads: 8
## qpAdm version: 634
seed: 1295334595

left pops:
Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG

right pops:
Mbuti.DG
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
Onge_1000G
Russia_MA1_HG.SG
Chinese_Han_1000G
Karitiana.DG
Anatolia_N

0 Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 1
1 Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 4
2 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 2
3 Mbuti.DG 4
4 Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 1
5 Onge_1000G 6
6 Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1
7 Chinese_Han_1000G 211
8 Karitiana.DG 3
9 Anatolia_N 29
jackknife block size: 0.050
snps: 709309 indivs: 262
number of blocks for block jackknife: 711
## ncols: 709309
coverage: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 292807
coverage: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 624648
coverage: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 474638
coverage: Mbuti.DG 690580
coverage: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 654138
coverage: Onge_1000G 704593
coverage: Russia_MA1_HG.SG 493659
coverage: Chinese_Han_1000G 709306
coverage: Karitiana.DG 690550
coverage: Anatolia_N 709269
dof (jackknife): 639.251
numsnps used: 155390
codimension 1
f4info:
f4rank: 1 dof: 5 chisq: 2.444 tail: 0.784873416 dofdiff: 7 chisqdiff: -2.444 taildiff: 1
B:
scale 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.201
Onge_1000G 0.337
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.217
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.919
Karitiana.DG 1.512
Anatolia_N -1.111
A:
scale 723.320
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.613
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 1.274


full rank
f4info:
f4rank: 2 dof: 0 chisq: 0.000 tail: 1 dofdiff: 5 chisqdiff: 2.444 taildiff: 0.784873416
B:
scale 1.000 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.200 0.200
Onge_1000G 0.330 0.790
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.203 -0.685
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.901 1.264
Karitiana.DG 1.520 -0.226
Anatolia_N -1.132 1.794
A:
scale 746.734 3511.876
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.755 -1.065
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 1.196 -0.931


best coefficients: 0.675 0.325
Jackknife mean: 0.675276889 0.324723111
std. errors: 0.069 0.069

error covariance (* 1000000)
4774 -4774
-4774 4774


summ: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 2 0.784873 0.675 0.325 4774 -4774 4774

fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
00 0 5 2.444 0.784873 0.675 0.325
01 1 6 22.856 0.000846255 1.000 0.000
10 1 6 69.650 4.82473e-13 0.000 1.000
best pat: 00 0.784873 - -
best pat: 01 0.000846255 chi(nested): 20.412 p-value for nested model: 6.24515e-06

coeffs: 0.675 0.325

## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.000306 -0.488565
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000229 0.320063
dscore: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4: -0.000132 Z: -0.221248

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Onge_1000G -0.000616 -1.068608
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Onge_1000G 0.000281 0.433744
dscore: Onge_1000G f4: -0.000325 Z: -0.594148

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.001029 -1.356903
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.002090 2.335904
dscore: Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4: -0.000015 Z: -0.020790

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Chinese_Han_1000G -0.001319 -2.756043
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Chinese_Han_1000G 0.001087 1.983415
dscore: Chinese_Han_1000G f4: -0.000538 Z: -1.181505

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Karitiana.DG -0.001515 -2.368054
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Karitiana.DG 0.002453 3.290047
dscore: Karitiana.DG f4: -0.000225 Z: -0.364006

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Anatolia_N 0.000570 1.157302
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Anatolia_N -0.002317 -4.105960
dscore: Anatolia_N f4: -0.000368 Z: -0.780912

gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.221
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Onge_1000G -0.594
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.021
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -1.182
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Karitiana.DG -0.364
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Anatolia_N -0.781
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Onge_1000G -0.326
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.154
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.792
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Karitiana.DG -0.147
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Anatolia_N -0.431
gendstat: Onge_1000G Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.409
gendstat: Onge_1000G Chinese_Han_1000G -0.514
gendstat: Onge_1000G Karitiana.DG 0.180
gendstat: Onge_1000G Anatolia_N -0.087
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.785
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Karitiana.DG -0.294
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Anatolia_N -0.507
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Karitiana.DG 0.748
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Anatolia_N 0.421
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Anatolia_N -0.266

## end of run



So what the G25 shows is irrelevant. Haji-Firuz-IA is actually 67.5% Iran-Chl + 32.5% Central Asian Sarmatian related with a p-value of 0.78 (excellent p-value, model passing p-values used in scientific papers is 0.05)

So Iranians are more steppe than anticipated.

[Zoro]

So Iranians are more steppe than anticipated.

Indeed if we use the Chalcolithic as a point of reference. Don't pay too much attention to informal methods such as G25 or Gedmatch calculators. They were not designed to measure how steppe Iranians are shifted compared to the Iran-Chl. Also Iranians are more E. Asian shifted compared to the Chalcolithic than what most people are led to believe. There has been lots of influx at various timescales since the Chalcolithic into the Iranian plateau from the north.

This said Afghans and to a smaller extent some N. Pakistanis and Indians are obviously more steppe and E. Eurasian shifted than the average Iranian.

[Demhat]

https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385.g007&size=large

From which study is this sample and the PCA? If it is a real Achaemenid sample that's fantasting.

But my point still stands. Some Iranic individuals picking Hurrian over Achaemenid simply means. these individuals might be a little more Hurrian shifted (as I would expect from Medes for example) and since you don't have a Median source population it picks up Hurrian as the next best. As we know Achaeamenids themselves were actually a Medo_Persian Dynasty some other samples might turn out different.

I will try to explain this visually
Look at this painting. Hope it explains what I mean.

https://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/24d802-1587350492.png

[Babak]

From which study is this sample and the PCA? If it is a real Achaemenid sample that's fantasting.

But my point still stands. Some Iranic individuals picking Hurrian over Achaemenid simply means. these individuals might be a little more Hurrian shifted (as I would expect from Medes for example) and since you don't have a Median source population it picks up Hurrian as the next best. As we know Achaeamenids themselves were actually a Medo_Persian Dynasty some other samples might turn out different.

I will try to explain this visually
Look at this painting. Hope it explains what I mean.

https://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/24d802-1587350492.png


I got it from anthrgenica https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385.g007

But yea, i agree with your point. Haji firuz is a better fit tbh

[Demhat]

I got it from anthrgenica https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385.g007

But yea, i agree with your point. Haji firuz is a better fit tbh

Thank you it seems like we finally have a real Achaemenid sample. The sample is perfect. But as you might understand it's only one sample. With more samples a little variation will come in. If we get our hands on samples from Medes and the Old Persians from the Achaemenid Dynasty, we will see what I mean. We can't base our decisions solely on one sample. As you might have noticed even the ancient Bronze Age Hurrians overlap with the Achaemenid sample as much as around 90%. And Hurrian is a bad example for comparison since it predates Achaemenids and is rather a source than competing population.

We need more Achaemenid and Median samples.

[Eline]

Thank you it seems like we finally have a real Achaemenid sample. The sample is perfect. But as you might understand it's only one sample. With more samples a little variation will come in. If we get our hands on samples from Medes and the Old Persians from the Achaemenid Dynasty or during the Median Empire, we will see what I mean. We can't base our decisions solely on one sample. As you might have noticed even the ancient Bronze Age Hurrians overlap with the Achaemenid sample as much as around 90%. And Hurrian is a bad example for comparison since it predates Achaemenids and is rather a source than competing population.

We need more Achaemenid and Median samples.It is not an Achaemenid sample, but a sample from outside West Asian from the Achamenid era. It has nothing to do with the Iranians. It has only something to do with the AGE of the sample.

It is from this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6759149/


According to this study, ancient proto-Aryan (West Iranian), so called ancient Central Iranian Cluster (CIC) that connects all Iranic people together is just native to Kurdistan.

[Eline]

It is not an Achaemenid sample, but a sample from outside West Asian from the Achamenid era. It has nothing to do with the Iranians. It has only something to do with the AGE of the sample.

It is from this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6759149/


According to this study, ancient proto-Aryan (West Iranian), so called ancient Central Iranian Cluster (CIC) that connects all Iranic people together is just native to Kurdistan.


The majority of Iran’s ethnic groups comprise largely overlapping genetic autosomal diversity, implicating a shared and largely autochthonous ancestry, designated as the Central Iranian Cluster (CIC). Notably, the CIC also includes Iranian Arabs and Azeris (Fig 1) as well as the religious group of Zoroastrians (Fig 3), being consistent with the suggestion that Zoroastrians have lived in the area of present-day Iran for millennia and had formed an early group of Indo-European speakers.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6759149/


Kurds are much more homogenous (pure) than Persians. Kurds are clustered closely with other Western Iranians such as Gilaks, Mazanderanis and Lurs, while only one part of the Persians overlaps with the Kurds, while other part of the Persians is more shifted toward the Turkmen. Persians are much more diverse and a little bit more shifted toward the Turkmen (Turkic speaking people).

[Demhat]

Totally agree. I wouldn't call him an idiot. Clearly he's not a scientist if he's relying exclusively on G25. I would just call him a misinformed amateur who doesn't understand the issues with Davidski's G25.

The Hurrian he's referring to I think is Haji-Firuz-IA ! and the the Archemenid I believe is Hasanlu-IA. Clearly the G25 is giving totally off results. Davidski's G25 is a mish mosh of modern and ancient samples. Obviously the moderns he has in the run to generate coordinates are having all sorts of effects on the test samples.

Anyways if he was a scientist he would use qpAdm and if he had he would have seen the following for Haji-Firuz-IA (courtesy EurasianDNA)





So what the G25 shows is irrelevant. Haji-Firuz-IA is actually 67.5% Iran-Chl + 32.5% Central Asian Sarmatian related with a p-value of 0.78 (excellent p-value, model passing p-values used in scientific papers is 0.05)

Wait a minute now is it a real Achaemenid sample or not? From where and which timeframe is this Hasanlu Iron Age sample exactly. Haji Firuz might be genetically very close to Medes.

I don't call him an idiot he is just not well informed and doesn't know the flaws and how these calculators work. If I had no other proxy samples than a Chimp and East Asian. The calculator would obviously pick up East Asian for me, because it's the next closest thing that is there.

[Eline]

Wait a minute now is it a real Achaemenid sample or not?I think people here are confused and speak about the different samples and topics.

There is no Achaemenid sample at the PCA you have seen. That PCA is from a recent study about the Iranian people: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6759149/

[Zoro]

Wait a minute now is it a real Achaemenid sample or not? From where and which timeframe is this Hasanlu Iron Age sample exactly. Haji Firuz might be genetically very close to Medes.

I don't call him an idiot he is just not well informed and doesn't know the flaws and how these calculators work. If I had no other proxy samples than a Chimp and East Asian. The calculator would obviously pick up East Asian for me, because it's the next closest thing that is there.

Hasanlu-IA is a 2750 year old sample from Hasanlu Iran in Zagros. So about 250 years before Archemenids It's R1b1a1a2a2

[Demhat]

So Iranians are more steppe than anticipated.

Seems so but the thing people need to understand and always remember. Inside this ~30% Steppe hides around 15-20% Iranian_Plateau Neolithic, Neolithic Caucasus related DNA. It was a bi directional geneflow. Those dudes who came from the Steppe (especially the later Iranic branches) were at least 50% of Iranian Plateau-Caucasus ancestry if not even more. That is why we barely show outside admixture, because allot of it is literally back migration.

[Zoro]

Haji-Firuz-IA is from Haji Firuz Iran and is 2900 years old. Y:R1b1a1a2a2 Mt: K1a17a

[Demhat]

Hasanlu-IA is a 2750 year old sample from Hasanlu Iran in Zagros. So about 250 years before Archemenids It's R1b1a1a2a2

So it might actually be a Mede, timeframe fits. But it's slightly before the foundation of the Median Empire

[Demhat]

Haji-Firuz-IA is from Haji Firuz Iran and is 2900 years old. Y:R1b1a1a2a2 Mt: K1a17a

These guys were either already Medes or Hurrians-Manneaens/Gutians/Kassites who were about to become the Medes. Either way they possible represent well what the early Median speakers genetically looked like.

Still would be good to have samples from the actual period of the Median Empire and the Achaemenid Dynasty.

[Eline]

So it might actually be a Mede, timeframe fits. But it's slightly before the foundation of the Median EmpireYezidi Kurds from Iraq have much more R1b than R1a. Non-Yezidi Kurds have more R1a

Yezidi Kurds have also a lot Maykop/Kura-Araxes Y-DNA hg. 'L'.

I think that R1b is connected to the ancient proto-West Iranian Gutians who were ancestral to the Mitanni, Medes.


https://i.postimg.cc/vmVyLPXg/Ezdi-Kurds.png

[Demhat]

Yezidi Kurds from Iraq have much more R1b than R1a. Non-Yezidi Kurds have more R1a

Yezidi Kurds have also a lot Maykop/Kura-Araxes Y-DNA hg. 'L'.

I think that R1b is connected to the ancient Gutians who were ancestral to the Medes.


https://i.postimg.cc/vmVyLPXg/Ezdi-Kurds.png

The Medes were literally a confederation of Iranic and non Iranic tribes who spoke the Median language. Cyrus literally called all of West Media Gutium (land of the Gutis).

The Persian were literally a synthesis of Iranic and non Iranic tribes such as the Elamites and Kassites which formed the Persians.

The very Medes and Persian existence is down to these synthesis of Iranic and non Iranic speakers. We should never forget that.

Before these Iranic tribes mixed with the other locals they literally called themselves just "Aryans".

[Zoro]

Seems so but the thing people need to understand and always remember. Inside this ~30% Steppe hides around 15-20% Iranian_Plateau Neolithic, Neolithic Caucasus related DNA. It was a bi directional geneflow. Those dudes who came from the Steppe (especially the later Iranic branches) were at least 50% of Iranian Plateau-Caucasus ancestry if not even more. That is why we barely show outside admixture, because allot of it is literally back migration.

Very good point and that's one thing that confounds ADMIXTURE or G25 results because they don't use outgroups to zero out common shared ancestry. A big example is Europeans are shown closer to Sarmatians or Scythians in ADMIXTURE or G25 not because they had alot of admixture from those groups but because steppe groups and Europeans share alot of ancient EHG admixture whereas the basal Eurasian in W. Asians puts them further away from Steppe.

qpAdm on the other hand DOES use OUTGROUPS and much less vulnerable to this issue. Here's Harji-Firuz-IA using the following ancient OUTGROUPs to zero out ancient shared alleles between Haji-Firuz-IA and C. Asian Sarmatian

Mbuti.DG
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
Onge_1000G
Russia_MA1_HG.SG
Chinese_Han_1000G
Karitiana.DG
Anatolia_N
Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic
Georgia_Kotias.SG

numthreads: 8
## qpAdm version: 634
seed: 1215982657

left pops:
Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG

right pops:
Mbuti.DG
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
Onge_1000G
Russia_MA1_HG.SG
Chinese_Han_1000G
Karitiana.DG
Anatolia_N
Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic
Georgia_Kotias.SG

0 Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 1
1 Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 4
2 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 2
3 Mbuti.DG 4
4 Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 1
5 Onge_1000G 6
6 Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1
7 Chinese_Han_1000G 211
8 Karitiana.DG 3
9 Anatolia_N 29
10 Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 10
11 Georgia_Kotias.SG 1
jackknife block size: 0.050
snps: 709309 indivs: 273
number of blocks for block jackknife: 711
## ncols: 709309
coverage: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 292807
coverage: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 624648
coverage: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 474638
coverage: Mbuti.DG 690580
coverage: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 654138
coverage: Onge_1000G 704593
coverage: Russia_MA1_HG.SG 493659
coverage: Chinese_Han_1000G 709306
coverage: Karitiana.DG 690550
coverage: Anatolia_N 709269
coverage: Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 709182
coverage: Georgia_Kotias.SG 708661
dof (jackknife): 639.275
numsnps used: 154924
codimension 1
f4info:
f4rank: 1 dof: 7 chisq: 7.220 tail: 0.406371316 dofdiff: 9 chisqdiff: -7.220 taildiff: 1
B:
scale 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.182
Onge_1000G 0.323
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.249
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.915
Karitiana.DG 1.548
Anatolia_N -1.191
Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 1.269
Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.207
A:
scale 734.456
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.547
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 1.304


full rank
f4info:
f4rank: 2 dof: 0 chisq: 0.000 tail: 1 dofdiff: 7 chisqdiff: 7.220 taildiff: 0.406371316
B:
scale 1.000 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.199 0.121
Onge_1000G 0.324 0.590
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.234 -0.251
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.892 1.134
Karitiana.DG 1.545 0.215
Anatolia_N -1.181 0.885
Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 1.298 -0.464
Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.262 2.290
A:
scale 748.617 2653.477
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.655 -1.132
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG 1.254 -0.848


best coefficients: 0.704 0.296
Jackknife mean: 0.704624134 0.295375866
std. errors: 0.068 0.068

error covariance (* 1000000)
4689 -4689
-4689 4689


summ: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 2 0.406371 0.705 0.295 4689 -4689 4689

fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
00 0 7 7.220 0.406371 0.704 0.296
01 1 8 24.876 0.00163144 1.000 0.000
10 1 8 83.531 9.49035e-15 0.000 1.000
best pat: 00 0.406371 - -
best pat: 01 0.00163144 chi(nested): 17.657 p-value for nested model: 2.64607e-05

coeffs: 0.704 0.296

## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.000301 -0.479523
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000231 0.321952
dscore: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4: -0.000144 Z: -0.240060

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Onge_1000G -0.000612 -1.057869
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Onge_1000G 0.000288 0.443516
dscore: Onge_1000G f4: -0.000346 Z: -0.630565

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.001029 -1.354396
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.002093 2.330573
dscore: Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4: -0.000106 Z: -0.145244

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Chinese_Han_1000G -0.001320 -2.749701
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Chinese_Han_1000G 0.001089 1.979980
dscore: Chinese_Han_1000G f4: -0.000608 Z: -1.332328

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Karitiana.DG -0.001525 -2.377830
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Karitiana.DG 0.002446 3.271362
dscore: Karitiana.DG f4: -0.000352 Z: -0.566976

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Anatolia_N 0.000583 1.180980
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Anatolia_N -0.002324 -4.105589
dscore: Anatolia_N f4: -0.000276 Z: -0.583845

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic -0.001013 -1.939311
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.002256 3.544665
dscore: Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic f4: -0.000047 Z: -0.092013

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.000884 -1.152117
details: Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.001299 -1.522396
dscore: Georgia_Kotias.SG f4: -0.001006 Z: -1.382609

gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.240
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Onge_1000G -0.631
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.145
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -1.332
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Karitiana.DG -0.567
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Anatolia_N -0.584
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic -0.092
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.383
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Onge_1000G -0.341
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.049
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.902
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Karitiana.DG -0.327
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Anatolia_N -0.240
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.172
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.110
gendstat: Onge_1000G Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.315
gendstat: Onge_1000G Chinese_Han_1000G -0.630
gendstat: Onge_1000G Karitiana.DG -0.010
gendstat: Onge_1000G Anatolia_N 0.139
gendstat: Onge_1000G Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.629
gendstat: Onge_1000G Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.898
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.751
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Karitiana.DG -0.342
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Anatolia_N -0.243
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.085
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.002
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Karitiana.DG 0.614
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Anatolia_N 0.822
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 2.061
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.579
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Anatolia_N 0.140
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.651
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.844
gendstat: Anatolia_N Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.488
gendstat: Anatolia_N Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.092
gendstat: Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.309

## end of run

So even using all those OUTGROUPS to zero out ancient shared alleles between Haji-Firuz and C. Asian Sarmatian we still get


70.4% +/-7% + 29.6% +/-7% C. Asian Sarmatian related with a p-value of 0.40 (passing is 0.05)

[Eline]

The Medes were literally a confederation of Iranic and non Iranic tribes who spoke the Median language. Cyrus literally called all of West Media Gutium (land of the Gutis).

The Persian were literally a synthesis of Iranic and non Iranic tribes such as the Elamites and Kassites which formed the Persians.

The very Medes and Persian existence is down to these synthesis of Iranic and non Iranic speakers. We should never forget that.

Before these Iranic tribes mixed with the other locals they literally called themselves just "Aryans".Late proto-IEan marker in Yamnaya was R1b. It is possible that R1b related to Yamnaya was also part of the proto-Iranian people, along with some other haplogroups.

Most likely non-Yezidi Kurds mixed heavily with the Parthian Zoroastrian R1a-Z93 people, while Yezidi Kurds who have their R1b from the Gutians and later Mitanni didn't mixed much with the Zoroastrian Parthians.

That makes Yezidi Kurds closer to the ancient proto-Iranian Gutians or Mitanni and non-Yezidi Kurds closer to the later Zoroastrian Iranians such as Zoroastrian Parthians or Zoroastrianized Medes.


R1a-Z93 has something to do with the Zoroastrians.

[Zoro]

The other thing I have to tell you is that whereas modern Kurds prefer C. Asian Sarmatian much more over Turkmenistan-IA sample (with some Kurds we can't get passing p-value with Turkmenistan-IA) with Haji-Firuz-IA it marginally prefers C. Asian Sarmatian over Turkmenistan-IA. So there is that uncertaintly with Haji-Firuz-IA because the p-value is insignificantly better with Sarmatian vs Turkmenistan

numthreads: 8
## qpAdm version: 634
seed: 1221472752

left pops:
Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz
Turkmenistan_IA.SG

right pops:
Mbuti.DG
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
Onge_1000G
Russia_MA1_HG.SG
Chinese_Han_1000G
Karitiana.DG
Anatolia_N
Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic
Georgia_Kotias.SG

0 Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 1
1 Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 4
2 Turkmenistan_IA.SG 1
3 Mbuti.DG 4
4 Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 1
5 Onge_1000G 6
6 Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1
7 Chinese_Han_1000G 211
8 Karitiana.DG 3
9 Anatolia_N 29
10 Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 10
11 Georgia_Kotias.SG 1
jackknife block size: 0.050
snps: 709309 indivs: 272
number of blocks for block jackknife: 711
## ncols: 709309
coverage: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 292807
coverage: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz 624648
coverage: Turkmenistan_IA.SG 585515
coverage: Mbuti.DG 690580
coverage: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 654138
coverage: Onge_1000G 704593
coverage: Russia_MA1_HG.SG 493659
coverage: Chinese_Han_1000G 709306
coverage: Karitiana.DG 690550
coverage: Anatolia_N 709269
coverage: Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 709182
coverage: Georgia_Kotias.SG 708661
dof (jackknife): 637.912
numsnps used: 191470
codimension 1
f4info:
f4rank: 1 dof: 7 chisq: 7.589 tail: 0.370258274 dofdiff: 9 chisqdiff: -7.589 taildiff: 1
B:
scale 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.087
Onge_1000G 0.464
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.532
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.969
Karitiana.DG 1.579
Anatolia_N -0.925
Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 1.037
Georgia_Kotias.SG 0.260
A:
scale 928.883
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.886
Turkmenistan_IA.SG 1.103


full rank
f4info:
f4rank: 2 dof: 0 chisq: 0.000 tail: 1 dofdiff: 7 chisqdiff: 7.589 taildiff: 0.370258274
B:
scale 1.000 1.000
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.112 -0.042
Onge_1000G 0.427 0.462
Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.580 -0.714
Chinese_Han_1000G 0.924 0.771
Karitiana.DG 1.585 0.273
Anatolia_N -0.960 0.342
Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 1.005 0.248
Georgia_Kotias.SG 0.112 2.535
A:
scale 926.909 1766.689
Iran_C_HajjiFiruz -0.845 -1.037
Turkmenistan_IA.SG 1.134 -0.961


best coefficients: 0.555 0.445
Jackknife mean: 0.556301466 0.443698534
std. errors: 0.090 0.090

error covariance (* 1000000)
8086 -8086
-8086 8086


summ: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 2 0.370258 0.556 0.444 8086 -8086 8086

fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
00 0 7 7.589 0.370258 0.555 0.445
01 1 8 33.958 4.13408e-05 1.000 0.000
10 1 8 35.378 2.28111e-05 0.000 1.000
best pat: 00 0.370258 - -
best pat: 01 4.13408e-05 chi(nested): 26.370 p-value for nested model: 2.81948e-07

coeffs: 0.555 0.445

## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.000108 -0.182071
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000136 0.187760
dscore: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4: 0.000001 Z: 0.001244

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Onge_1000G -0.000688 -1.263533
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Onge_1000G 0.000251 0.388261
dscore: Onge_1000G f4: -0.000270 Z: -0.512445

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.001051 -1.466728
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.002298 2.574205
dscore: Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4: 0.000441 Z: 0.618227

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Chinese_Han_1000G -0.001315 -2.876109
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Chinese_Han_1000G 0.000696 1.220378
dscore: Chinese_Han_1000G f4: -0.000419 Z: -0.934819

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Karitiana.DG -0.001639 -2.750704
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Karitiana.DG 0.001765 2.308836
dscore: Karitiana.DG f4: -0.000122 Z: -0.203766

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Anatolia_N 0.000644 1.369699
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Anatolia_N -0.001385 -2.355306
dscore: Anatolia_N f4: -0.000260 Z: -0.550080

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic -0.001089 -2.195375
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.001072 1.731791
dscore: Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic f4: -0.000127 Z: -0.260643

details: Iran_C_HajjiFiruz Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.001626 -2.224422
details: Turkmenistan_IA.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.001279 -1.434655
dscore: Georgia_Kotias.SG f4: -0.001472 Z: -2.035879

gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.001
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Onge_1000G -0.512
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.618
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.935
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Karitiana.DG -0.204
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Anatolia_N -0.550
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic -0.261
gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -2.036
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Onge_1000G -0.461
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.591
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Chinese_Han_1000G -0.797
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Karitiana.DG -0.192
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Anatolia_N -0.469
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic -0.223
gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.931
gendstat: Onge_1000G Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.980
gendstat: Onge_1000G Chinese_Han_1000G -0.375
gendstat: Onge_1000G Karitiana.DG 0.275
gendstat: Onge_1000G Anatolia_N 0.020
gendstat: Onge_1000G Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.317
gendstat: Onge_1000G Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.655
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Chinese_Han_1000G -1.331
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Karitiana.DG -0.828
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Anatolia_N -1.054
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic -0.846
gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -2.243
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Karitiana.DG 0.722
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Anatolia_N 0.410
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 1.144
gendstat: Chinese_Han_1000G Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.590
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Anatolia_N -0.260
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic -0.009
gendstat: Karitiana.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.825
gendstat: Anatolia_N Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic 0.303
gendstat: Anatolia_N Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.912
gendstat: Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.912

## end of run


HF = 55.5% Iran-Chl +/-9% + 44.5% Turkmenistan-IA +/-9% p-value 0.37

[Zoro]

Turkmenistan_IA.SG Takhirbai, Turkmenistan R1a1a1b2 2700 years old

Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Tengiz, Caspian steppe Kazakhstan Female U5a1 2400 years old.
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Tian Shan, Central Steppe Kazakhstan Female U4a2 2300 years old
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Tian Shan, Central Steppe Kazakhstan Male I2a2a2a .. U4a2 2000 years old

[Babak]

Turkmenistan_IA.SG Takhirbai, Turkmenistan R1a1a1b2 2700 years old

Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Tengiz, Caspian steppe Kazakhstan Female U5a1 2400 years old.
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Tian Shan, Central Steppe Kazakhstan Female U4a2 2300 years old
Kazakhstan_Sarmatian.SG Tian Shan, Central Steppe Kazakhstan Male I2a2a2a .. U4a2 2000 years old

So is that TA sample still accurate for a average persian? The hurrian sample isnt very accurate.

[Zoro]

So is that TA sample still accurate for a average persian? The hurrian sample isnt very accurate.

What do you mean by TA?

The Hasanlu sample is more accurate. I'll ask Dilawer if he is able to use it instead.

Haji-Firuz-IA coverage 0.641309 SNPs genotyped: 487276 out of 1240K
Hasanlu-IA coverage 2.041 SNPs genotyped 1006536 out of 1240K Y: R1b1a1a2a2 Mt: N1a3a

[Babak]

What do you mean by TA?

The Hasanlu sample is more accurate. I'll ask Dilawer if he is able to use it instead.

Haji-Firuz-IA coverage 0.641309 SNPs genotyped: 487276 out of 1240K
Hasanlu-IA coverage 2.041 SNPs genotyped 1006536 out of 1240K Y: R1b1a1a2a2 Mt: N1a3a

Sorry i mean Turkmenistan_IA.

Thanks btw

[Zoro]

Sorry i mean Turkmenistan_IA.

Thanks btw

Yeah you have a point Turk-IA is more accurate than HF-IA and Kazakhstan-Sarmatian, and almost as accurate as Hasanlu. I'll ask

Coverage: 1.790135 SNPs genotyped 975763 out of 1240K

[Demhat]

Totally agree. I wouldn't call him an idiot. Clearly he's not a scientist if he's relying exclusively on G25. I would just call him a misinformed amateur who doesn't understand the issues with Davidski's G25.

The Hurrian he's referring to I think is Haji-Firuz-IA ! and the the Archemenid I believe is Hasanlu-IA. Clearly the G25 is giving totally off results. Davidski's G25 is a mish mosh of modern and ancient samples. Obviously the moderns he has in the run to generate coordinates are having all sorts of effects on the test samples.


So what the G25 shows is irrelevant. Haji-Firuz-IA is actually 67.5% Iran-Chl + 32.5% Central Asian Sarmatian related with a p-value of 0.78 (excellent p-value, model passing p-values used in scientific papers is 0.05)

You know what I actually think it goes a little beyond just being misinformed. The guy is deliberately giving some misnformation. Those people are more dangerous than the absolute idiots. Because they mix the truth with false information and it appears to people like the individual knows absolutely what he is talking about.

If he actually had a little understanding of genetics. He would know that he can't mix up people of different time scales. And if he actually knew something about Kurdish genetics he wouldn't talk the nonsense he is doing here.

towards the end


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRsPTGZty2Y


In another video about Yezidis, he also deliberately does not mention their Kurdish origin while using his "high skill G25 Calculator ". Acting like they are a genetic isolate to everyone else.

the misinformation goes that far, if the guy doesn't straight out some of the false informations I might personally start my own Youtube account and I won't be lenient on my way. Being misinformed is one thing but deliberately giving false informations is another.

[Babak]

Yeah you have a point Turk-IA is more accurate than HF-IA and Kazakhstan-Sarmatian, and almost as accurate as Hasanlu. I'll ask

Coverage: 1.790135 SNPs genotyped 975763 out of 1240K

Perfect, thanks

[Pater Patota]

Is there anyone could run G25 on me.I’m totally not able to reach any computer and i believe i won’t able to use any computer to research my results for a long time.I will appreciate for any help regardless.

[Leto]

Is there anyone could run G25 on me.I’m totally not able to reach any computer and i believe i won’t able to use any computer to research my results for a long time.I will appreciate for any help regardless.
I'm sorry but this thread is not about G25. It's already being derailed big time, let's not spam it with G25.

[Pater Patota]

I'm sorry but this thread is not about G25. It's already being derailed big time, let's not spam it with G25.

Oh, I’m sorry about that, thanks for reminding.

[Nomansman]

I'm sorry but this thread is not about G25. It's already being derailed big time, let's not spam it with G25.

Honestly, yeah i agree

I dont mind it too much and i barely post on this thread anymore, but i dont like how this thread turned out. 10 pages about history and all.


Guys, please stop it. Take your discussion about history somewhere else. This thread is just for Docedad results

[Leto]

Honestly, yeah i agree

I dont mind it too much and i barely post on this thread anymore, but i dont like how this thread turned out. 10 pages about history and all.


Guys, please stop it. Take your discussion about history somewhere else. This thread is just for Docedad results
It is Dodecad. :) The spelling mistake should be corrected because it may make the thread invisible in search.
I actually post not only for the TA members but also for potential visitors and lurkers who would stumble upon TA in the future.

[Leto]

Azerbaijani
K1a4
R-L2

Population
Gedrosia 20.62 Pct
Siberian 1.55 Pct
Northwest_African 2.55 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.44 Pct
Atlantic_Med 7.90 Pct
North_European 9.54 Pct
South_Asian 2.49 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 8.59 Pct
East_Asian 2.74 Pct
Caucasus 42.58 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Shakir_M.
4.79328697 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.80698717 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.23172528 Azerbaijani
6.95650056 Turk_East
7.26050962 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.26631268 Zaza
8.00421764 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.33511848 Turk_Central_East
8.37625811 Turk_Southeast
9.11948463 Azerbaijani_Dagestan

Target: Shakir_M.
Distance: 2.7747% / 2.77465463 | ADC: 0.5x
69.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
16.6 Circassian
9.2 Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.2 Turk_Ahiska
0.4 Mozabite

Target: Shakir_M.
Distance: 1.6242% / 1.62423918 | ADC: 0.25x
53.0 Azerbaijani_Turkey
14.2 Talysh_Azerbaijan
14.0 Circassian
11.8 Turk_Ahiska
4.8 Ingush
1.6 Mozabite
0.6 PANIYA

[Leto]

Half Talysh, half Azerbaijani

Population
Gedrosia 21.52 Pct
Siberian 3.16 Pct
Northwest_African 1.00 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.66 Pct
Atlantic_Med 5.39 Pct
North_European 9.09 Pct
South_Asian 3.31 Pct
East_African 1.84 Pct
Southwest_Asian 8.71 Pct
East_Asian 0.67 Pct
Caucasus 43.65 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Presumably an Azeri too (higher NE)

Population
Gedrosia 21.58 Pct
Siberian 1.37 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 6.78 Pct
North_European 10.75 Pct
South_Asian 1.35 Pct
East_African 0.78 Pct
Southwest_Asian 12.64 Pct
East_Asian 2.62 Pct
Caucasus 42.13 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Kyp]

Circassian from Jordan:

Gedrosia 17.94
Siberian 1.06
Northwest_African 0.20
Southeast_Asian 1.57
Atlantic_Med 4.51
North_European 17.75
South_Asian 1.49
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian 5.96
East_Asian 2.36
Caucasus 47.14
Sub_Saharan -


Distance to: Circassian_Jordan
3.82842004 Circassian
5.22968450 Kumyks
6.24887190 Ingush
9.74132435 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.97549164 Adygei
12.61592644 Balkars
12.62091914 Turk_Ahiska
12.84264770 North_Ossetians
13.60559076 Turk_East
13.82922991 Lezgins
13.90049639 Georgian_Svan
13.99642812 Azerbaijani_Turkey
14.09270379 Georgian_Gurian
14.95527332 Azerbaijani
15.09947681 Turk_Central_East
15.28486506 Azerbaijani_Iran
15.40863070 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
15.40909796 Avar_Dagestan
15.60854253 Talysh_Azerbaijan
16.01542694 Zaza
16.17860624 Turk_South
16.25111996 Georgian_Imereti
16.31688696 Turk_Anatolia
16.43859787 Armenian_East
16.47068305 Georgian_Mingrelian


Target: Circassian_Jordan
Distance: 2.3874% / 2.38739582 | ADC: 0.25x
89.8 Circassian
3.8 Adygei
3.6 Yemen_Jews
1.2 Lithuanian
0.8 BONDA
0.8 Lezgins

[Leto]

Found some top-notch stuff

Tsakhur (Lezgic minority in Northern Azerbaijan)

Population
Gedrosia 24.94 Pct
Siberian 1.97 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.01 Pct
North_European 21.83 Pct
South_Asian 0.89 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.13 Pct
East_Asian 3.31 Pct
Caucasus 37.91 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Tat (Iranic minority in Azerbaijan)

Population
Gedrosia 22.10 Pct
Siberian 2.73 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.86 Pct
Atlantic_Med 6.70 Pct
North_European 12.86 Pct
South_Asian 2.20 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 8.63 Pct
East_Asian 0.63 Pct
Caucasus 43.19 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.12 Pct

Half Talysh half Tsakhur

Population
Gedrosia 23.36 Pct
Siberian 1.62 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.82 Pct
North_European 13.57 Pct
South_Asian 0.56 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 10.08 Pct
East_Asian 2.14 Pct
Caucasus 42.85 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Kyp]

Very pure Iranian result:

Gedrosian: 29.58
Siberian: 0.00
Northwest_African: 0.00
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 4.14
North_European: 7.80
South_Asian 4.51
East_African 0.55
Southwest_Asian: 11.57
East_Asian: 0.50
Caucasian: 40.78
SSA: 0.57

Distance to: Iranian241
3.60513523 Iran_Mazandaran
3.60898878 Iranian
5.32484742 Talysh_Azerbaijan
5.45681226 Kurd
5.68777637 Kurds
6.03250363 Lur_Iran
6.59748437 Iranians
7.62737176 Iranian_Fars
7.98748396 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.11825720 Zaza
8.21486458 Kurd_Sorani
8.77353976 Iran_Central_East
9.76539298 Azerbaijani_Iran
11.03294612 Turkmen_Iraq
11.21452629 Iran_Khorasan
11.37317898 Azerbaijani
11.57103280 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.60839352 Azerbaijani_Turkey
13.86336179 Uzbekistan_Jews
14.62731349 Turk_Southeast
14.70015986 Turk_East
16.07807513 Armenian_East
16.32161144 Ingush
16.63970853 Turkmens
16.97742913 Parsi_India

Target: Iranian241
Distance: 1.1685% / 1.16845749 | ADC: 0.25x
59.6 Iran_Mazandaran
25.4 Talysh_Azerbaijan
11.0 Kurds
2.0 Lezgins
1.8 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.2 Georgian_Gurian

[Kyp]

Tsakhur (Lezgic minority in Northern Azerbaijan)

Population
Gedrosia 24.94 Pct
Siberian 1.97 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.01 Pct
North_European 21.83 Pct
South_Asian 0.89 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.13 Pct
East_Asian 3.31 Pct
Caucasus 37.91 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Tsakhur
5.30965159 Avar_Dagestan
5.80412784 Avar
6.98108874 Lak
7.18244387 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.42216276 Dargin
8.12986470 Ingush
10.61511658 Kumyks
10.78381658 Lezgins
12.71879318 Circassian
16.21942354 Azerbaijani
16.23611715 Iran_Khorasan
16.64144525 Azerbaijani_Turkey
16.70476579 Azerbaijani_Iran
16.91052039 Yagnobi
16.92473043 Turkmen_Iran
17.26323840 Turkmens
17.57188948 Talysh_Azerbaijan
17.84843410 Nogais
18.38677786 Turk_South
18.43258799 Iran_Central_East
18.52937128 Kurd_Kurmanji
18.65967309 Zaza
18.70277787 Turk_Anatolia
18.81867158 Turk_Southeast
18.85652937 Iranian

Target: Tsakhur
Distance: 1.0071% / 1.00711304 | ADC: 0.25x
36.6 Avar
33.0 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
23.6 Avar_Dagestan
4.6 Kumyks
1.0 Japanese
0.8 JPT30
0.4 Ingush


Tat (Iranic minority in Azerbaijan)

Population
Gedrosia 22.10 Pct
Siberian 2.73 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.86 Pct
Atlantic_Med 6.70 Pct
North_European 12.86 Pct
South_Asian 2.20 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 8.63 Pct
East_Asian 0.63 Pct
Caucasus 43.19 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.12 Pct


Distance to: Tat
5.48915294 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.22527508 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.69302281 Ingush
7.86921216 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.89792378 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.10874836 Azerbaijani
8.40471891 Zaza
9.05069058 Circassian
9.07261263 Turk_East
9.22850475 Kurd_Kurmanji
10.24267543 Kumyks
10.64135800 Turk_Southeast
10.73398342 Kurds
10.76477589 Turk_Central_East
10.87154083 Iranian
11.57655389 Kurd_Sorani
11.66800754 Kurd
11.81923432 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.82529492 Turk_Ahiska
11.92499476 Turk_South
12.29332746 Turkmen_Iraq
12.53012769 Armenian_East
12.57685970 Turk_Anatolia
12.92156724 Lur_Iran
12.96543482 Turk_Central_West

Target: Tat
Distance: 1.3015% / 1.30151167 | ADC: 0.25x
48.4 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
25.2 Turk_East
13.0 Circassian
12.6 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.6 Turk_Ahiska
0.2 Juang


Half Talysh half Tsakhur

Population
Gedrosia 23.36 Pct
Siberian 1.62 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.82 Pct
North_European 13.57 Pct
South_Asian 0.56 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 10.08 Pct
East_Asian 2.14 Pct
Caucasus 42.85 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Talysh/Tsakhur
5.02113533 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.71240559 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.90241735 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.04081464 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.14201449 Ingush
8.27768083 Azerbaijani
8.29903006 Zaza
9.10615726 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.71161161 Kurds
10.01544807 Circassian
10.10992087 Turk_East
10.55288586 Iranian
10.57446925 Kumyks
10.70342936 Kurd
11.04713990 Turk_Southeast
11.23944839 Kurd_Sorani
11.72507569 Turk_Central_East
11.90003782 Turkmen_Iraq
12.59365316 Lur_Iran
12.62921217 Turk_Ahiska
12.69947637 Turk_South
12.82182904 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
13.10732238 Armenian_East
13.23576972 Iran_Mazandaran
13.47279481 Turk_Anatolia

Target: Talysh/Tsakhur
Distance: 1.2913% / 1.29126310 | ADC: 0.25x
74.6 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
16.2 Georgia_Jews
7.0 Kurds
1.8 Turk_Ahiska
0.4 Japanese




I think the results look better if I remove Azerbaijani_Dagestan (mixed population):

Target: Tsakhur
Distance: 1.1071% / 1.10708521 | ADC: 0.25x
64.8 Avar
24.4 Ingush
8.4 Azerbaijani
1.4 JPT30
0.4 Japanese
0.4 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.2 Kurds

Target: Tat
Distance: 1.3564% / 1.35643796 | ADC: 0.25x
47.6 Ingush
20.4 Turk_East
18.6 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.4 Iran_Central_East
3.4 Zaza
2.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey

Target: Talysh/Tsakhur
Distance: 1.4273% / 1.42732600 | ADC: 0.25x
41.6 Ingush
29.0 Kurds
11.0 Azerbaijani
10.8 Kumyks
6.0 Zaza
1.6 Saudis

[Babak]

Very pure Iranian result:

Gedrosian: 29.58
Siberian: 0.00
Northwest_African: 0.00
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 4.14
North_European: 7.80
South_Asian 4.51
East_African 0.55
Southwest_Asian: 11.57
East_Asian: 0.50
Caucasian: 40.78
SSA: 0.57

Distance to: Iranian241
3.60513523 Iran_Mazandaran
3.60898878 Iranian
5.32484742 Talysh_Azerbaijan
5.45681226 Kurd
5.68777637 Kurds
6.03250363 Lur_Iran
6.59748437 Iranians
7.62737176 Iranian_Fars
7.98748396 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.11825720 Zaza
8.21486458 Kurd_Sorani
8.77353976 Iran_Central_East
9.76539298 Azerbaijani_Iran
11.03294612 Turkmen_Iraq
11.21452629 Iran_Khorasan
11.37317898 Azerbaijani
11.57103280 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.60839352 Azerbaijani_Turkey
13.86336179 Uzbekistan_Jews
14.62731349 Turk_Southeast
14.70015986 Turk_East
16.07807513 Armenian_East
16.32161144 Ingush
16.63970853 Turkmens
16.97742913 Parsi_India

Target: Iranian241
Distance: 1.1685% / 1.16845749 | ADC: 0.25x
59.6 Iran_Mazandaran
25.4 Talysh_Azerbaijan
11.0 Kurds
2.0 Lezgins
1.8 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.2 Georgian_Gurian


Compared to post sassanid result:

Gedrosia 24.42 Pct
Siberian 1.63 Pct
Northwest_African 1.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.93 Pct
North_European 12.34 Pct
South_Asian 5.95 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.86 Pct
East_Asian 0.30 Pct
Caucasus 39.29 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.17 Pct

Distance to: Ganj_Dareh_His
6.65560666 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.14205153 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.14205153 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.69040961 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.35496858 Azerbaijani
8.37251456 Kurd_Kurmanji
8.58128778 Iran_Central_East
8.64250542 Iranian
8.78799750 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.85366591 Zaza
9.37118456 Kurd_Sorani
9.40927734 Iran_Khorasan
9.41502523 Iranian_Fars
9.78289834 Iran_Mazandaran
10.26444835 Kurds
10.30237351 Kurd
10.42784733 Lur_Iran
11.50329518 Turkmen_Iraq
11.54196690 Turk_Southeast
11.80012288 Iranians
12.93724855 Turk_East
13.45886697 Turk_Central_East
13.74012373 Turk_South
14.20730446 Circassian
14.34555332 Kumyks

[Mejgusu]

Found some top-notch stuff

Tsakhur (Lezgic minority in Northern Azerbaijan)

Population
Gedrosia 24.94 Pct
Siberian 1.97 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.01 Pct
North_European 21.83 Pct
South_Asian 0.89 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.13 Pct
East_Asian 3.31 Pct
Caucasus 37.91 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Tat (Iranic minority in Azerbaijan)

Population
Gedrosia 22.10 Pct
Siberian 2.73 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.86 Pct
Atlantic_Med 6.70 Pct
North_European 12.86 Pct
South_Asian 2.20 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 8.63 Pct
East_Asian 0.63 Pct
Caucasus 43.19 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.12 Pct

Half Talysh half Tsakhur

Population
Gedrosia 23.36 Pct
Siberian 1.62 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.82 Pct
North_European 13.57 Pct
South_Asian 0.56 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 10.08 Pct
East_Asian 2.14 Pct
Caucasus 42.85 Pct
Sub_Saharan -


Do the high noth european) came from caucasian input or are these people more proto iranian influenced? or are they just something between (mostly)caucasus and iran:


Distance to: Tsakhur
5.30965159 Avar_Dagestan
5.80412784 Avar
6.98108874 Lak
7.18244387 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.42216276 Dargin
8.12986470 Ingush
10.61511658 Kumyks
10.78381658 Lezgins
12.71879318 Circassian
16.21942354 Azerbaijani
16.23611715 Iran_Khorasan
16.64144525 Azerbaijani_Turkey
16.70476579 Azerbaijani_Iran
16.91052039 Yagnobi
16.92473043 Turkmen_Iran
17.26323840 Turkmens
17.57188948 Talysh_Azerbaijan
17.84843410 Nogais
18.38677786 Turk_South
18.43258799 Iran_Central_East
18.52937128 Kurd_Kurmanji
18.65967309 Zaza
18.70277787 Turk_Anatolia
18.81867158 Turk_Southeast
18.85652937 Iranian

Target: Tsakhur
Distance: 1.0071% / 1.00711304 | ADC: 0.25x
36.6 Avar
33.0 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
23.6 Avar_Dagestan
4.6 Kumyks
1.0 Japanese
0.8 JPT30
0.4 Ingush

[Kyp]

Do the high noth european) came from caucasian input or are these people more proto iranian influenced? or are they just something between (mostly)caucasus and iran:

I think Tats live in Northeastern areas. +10 NE is common there. But Sassanid era Iranian sample also has +12 NE. The result definetly looks a bit Caucasus mixed though. Compare it with the result form Khachmaz (looks pretty similar:

Gedrosian: 23.18
Siberian: 0.88
Northwest_African: 0.53
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 5.80
North_European: 13.44
South_Asian 1.02
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.16
East_Asian: 2.19
Caucasian: 41.79
SSA: 0.00

For Lezgins it's Steppe influence I think. North Caucasus scores a lot of NE.

[Babak]

I think Tats live in Northeastern areas. +10 NE is common there. But Sassanid era Iranian sample also has +12 NE. The result definetly looks a bit Caucasus mixed though. Compare it with the result form Khachmaz (looks pretty similar:

Gedrosian: 23.18
Siberian: 0.88
Northwest_African: 0.53
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 5.80
North_European: 13.44
South_Asian 1.02
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.16
East_Asian: 2.19
Caucasian: 41.79
SSA: 0.00

nvm lol

[Kyp]

Azerbaijani from Naxcivan:
50%Turk (Kengerli) 50% Kurd
YDNA: J


Gedrosian: 26.32
Siberian: 1.53
Northwest_African: 1.10
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 8.98
North_European: 8.30
South_Asian 3.32
East_African 0.46
Southwest_Asian: 11.20
East_Asian: 1.80
Caucasian: 36.82
SSA: 0.15


Distance to: Azeri_Naxcivan
4.97512814 Kurd_Kurmanji
5.35489496 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.10702874 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.26396041 Iranian_Fars
6.33586616 Azerbaijani
6.34275965 Iranian
6.41336105 Kurd_Sorani
6.59500569 Zaza
6.86919937 Lur_Iran
6.95432240 Kurd
7.34924486 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.59863146 Iran_Central_East
7.74845791 Iranians
7.80341592 Turkmen_Iraq
7.95792687 Kurds
8.13435922 Iran_Khorasan
9.28855748 Turk_Southeast
9.52495669 Iran_Mazandaran
10.72100742 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.24245074 Turk_Central_East
12.54068977 Turk_South
12.54666091 Turk_East
13.39550298 Turkmens
13.58177455 Turk_Anatolia
13.69148275 Turk_Central_West

Target: Azeri_Naxcivan
Distance: 1.1925% / 1.19246250 | ADC: 0.25x
42.4 Kurd_Kurmanji
26.0 Iran_Khorasan
17.6 Kurd
6.0 Iranian
3.6 Dargin
2.0 French_Basque
2.0 Iranians
0.4 Andalucia

[Leto]

Some kind of Northwestern Caucasian
6.2% mongoloid and the rest is exclusively, noiselessly Caucasoid

Population
Gedrosia 20.29 Pct
Siberian 2.99 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 6.51 Pct
North_European 13.87 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 5.92 Pct
East_Asian 3.21 Pct
Caucasus 47.22 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Esma
4.49887764 Circassian
6.27580274 Ingush
6.72354817 Kumyks
8.88370981 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
9.88061233 Turk_Ahiska
10.51579764 Turk_East
10.95162545 Azerbaijani_Turkey
12.39897980 Azerbaijani
12.47435770 Azerbaijani_Iran
12.51377241 Talysh_Azerbaijan
12.70694692 Turk_Central_East
12.87548834 Zaza
12.90859016 Georgian_Svan
12.91355877 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
13.08959128 Georgian_Gurian
13.41058537 Armenian_East
14.02766196 Adygei
14.08829301 Turk_South
14.19072937 Turk_Southeast
14.24200126 Kurd_Kurmanji

Target: Esma
Distance: 1.8815% / 1.88152908 | ADC: 0.5x
72.2 Circassian
17.8 Azerbaijani_Turkey
10.0 Turk_Ahiska

Target: Esma
Distance: 1.3289% / 1.32889917 | ADC: 0.25x
67.8 Circassian
14.0 Turk_Ahiska
7.4 Kurd
6.8 Azerbaijani_Turkey
2.4 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
1.0 Ingush
0.6 JPT30

[Kyp]

Azerbaijani from Igdir (originally from Armenia)

Gedrosian: 25.21
Siberian: 3.21
Northwest_African: 0.80
Southeast_Asian: 2.51
Atlantic_Med: 8.12
North_European: 7.05
South_Asian 3.54
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 13.43
East_Asian: 2.06
Caucasian: 33.99
SSA: 0.43

Distance to: Azeri_Igdir
5.43581641 Iranian_Fars
6.45933433 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.67107937 Kurd_Sorani
6.77825936 Kurd_Kurmanji
7.17481010 Iran_Central_East
7.23398231 Azerbaijani
7.36256749 Turkmen_Iraq
7.61080810 Lur_Iran
7.76603502 Iran_Khorasan
8.12580458 Iranians
8.25376884 Iranian
8.58852141 Kurd
8.74761110 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.76830086 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.87485211 Zaza
9.26522531 Turk_Southeast
10.07733596 Kurds
11.39149244 Iran_Mazandaran
12.23826785 Turkmens
12.35558983 Turk_South
12.55621360 Turkmen_Iran
12.85361039 Turk_Central_East
13.55458225 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
13.66183370 Turk_Anatolia
13.78178508 Turk_Central_West

Target: Azeri_Igdir
Distance: 1.5330% / 1.53298187 | ADC: 0.25x
36.8 Iranian_Fars
25.6 Turkmen_Iraq
16.4 Kurd_Kurmanji
14.2 Turkmens
3.2 Iranians
1.2 Ket
1.0 French_Basque
0.8 Dai
0.6 Pais_Vasco
0.2 Nganassan

[Leto]

Found this one yesterday. Must be some kind of Dagestani and I don't think he's mixed but look at that whopping North_European percentage. And I used to think 25% was super high

Population
Gedrosia 25.46 Pct
Siberian 1.81 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.16 Pct
North_European 29.22 Pct
South_Asian 1.63 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian -
East_Asian -
Caucasus 36.72 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Murad
3.57533215 Dargin
4.03054587 Lak
4.77122626 Avar
11.85896286 Lezgins
14.53340291 Ingush
15.36598842 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
16.28247524 Kumyks
17.64332735 Yagnobi
18.38682137 Circassian
21.14424035 Nogais
21.90367093 Tajik_Balanovsky2019
22.16435652 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
23.41633191 Turkmen_Iran
23.57849444 Iran_Khorasan
23.62018205 Adygei
23.96420873 Turkmens
24.58976820 Pamiri_Tajik
24.60258117 Azerbaijani
24.93152623 Balkars
25.01006597 Azerbaijani_Turkey

Target: Murad
Distance: 2.6674% / 2.66743409 | ADC: 0.5x
80.2 Dargin
16.6 Lak
3.0 Ukranians
0.2 Adygei

Target: Murad
Distance: 1.6660% / 1.66599051 | ADC: 0.25x
86.6 Dargin
4.8 Adygei
3.8 Lezgins
2.6 Lithuanian
1.8 Lithuanians
0.4 Pulliyar

His Eurogenes clearly show he is not mixed

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 47.64
2 Baltic 18.15
3 North_Atlantic 16.92
4 East_Med 7.81
5 South_Asian 6.85
6 Siberian 1.22
7 Amerindian 1.04
8 Sub-Saharan 0.35

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tabassaran 5.61
2 Lezgin 8.9
3 Chechen 9.69
4 Kabardin 14.59
5 North_Ossetian 15.22
6 Adygei 15.61
7 Kumyk 16.06
8 Balkar 16.76
9 Ossetian 16.93
10 Tadjik 19.31
11 Afghan_Pashtun 20.71
12 Georgian 23.02
13 Afghan_Tadjik 24.12
14 Nogay 24.5
15 Turkmen 24.73
16 Abhkasian 24.9
17 Azeri 27.35
18 Kurdish 27.43
19 Balochi 27.61
20 Makrani 28.12

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96% Tabassaran + 4% Swedish @ 5.25
2 96.1% Tabassaran + 3.9% North_Swedish @ 5.26
3 96.2% Tabassaran + 3.8% Norwegian @ 5.26
4 96.4% Tabassaran + 3.6% Finnish @ 5.28
5 96.4% Tabassaran + 3.6% Estonian @ 5.28
6 96.4% Tabassaran + 3.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 5.29
7 96.5% Tabassaran + 3.5% La_Brana-1 @ 5.29
8 96.4% Tabassaran + 3.6% Irish @ 5.3
9 96.6% Tabassaran + 3.4% East_Finnish @ 5.31
10 96.6% Tabassaran + 3.4% Lithuanian @ 5.31
11 96.5% Tabassaran + 3.5% West_Scottish @ 5.31
12 96.4% Tabassaran + 3.6% Danish @ 5.32
13 96.4% Tabassaran + 3.6% North_Dutch @ 5.32
14 96.3% Tabassaran + 3.7% North_German @ 5.34
15 96.6% Tabassaran + 3.4% Orcadian @ 5.34
16 96.7% Tabassaran + 3.3% Kargopol_Russian @ 5.38
17 96.7% Tabassaran + 3.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 5.38
18 96.9% Tabassaran + 3.1% Southwest_English @ 5.38
19 96.8% Tabassaran + 3.2% Polish @ 5.39
20 96.9% Tabassaran + 3.1% Belorussian @ 5.4

178875 SNPs used in this evaluation

[Leto]

Half Turkish half Northwestern European (presumably has a white mother)

Population
Gedrosia 11.71 Pct
Siberian 1.31 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 25.54 Pct
North_European 29.03 Pct
South_Asian 0.52 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 5.51 Pct
East_Asian 1.57 Pct
Caucasus 24.77 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

The nMonte is very inaccurate for him, a bunch of unrelated pops.

K13 mixed mode:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.2% North_Dutch + 47.8% Turkish @ 2.58
2 50.4% Norwegian + 49.6% Turkish @ 2.75
3 51.7% Orcadian + 48.3% Turkish @ 2.77
4 52.4% Danish + 47.6% Turkish @ 2.83
5 51.3% Irish + 48.7% Turkish @ 3.01
6 50.8% West_Scottish + 49.2% Turkish @ 3.04
7 58.6% Orcadian + 41.4% Armenian @ 3.09
8 57.3% Norwegian + 42.7% Armenian @ 3.15
9 54.6% North_German + 45.4% Turkish @ 3.2
10 58.9% Orcadian + 41.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.21
11 59% North_Dutch + 41% Armenian @ 3.23
12 59.3% Danish + 40.7% Armenian @ 3.27
13 53% Southeast_English + 47% Turkish @ 3.33
14 61.3% South_Dutch + 38.7% Azeri @ 3.46
15 63.3% West_German + 36.7% Azeri @ 3.47
16 55.5% Southeast_English + 44.5% Azeri @ 3.5
17 64.5% South_Dutch + 35.5% Kurdish @ 3.58
18 61.4% North_German + 38.6% Armenian @ 3.6
19 66.5% West_German + 33.5% Kurdish @ 3.62
20 58% West_Scottish + 42% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.67

[Kyp]

Yazidi

Gedrosian: 27.95
Siberian: 0.00
Northwest_African: 2.36
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 6.76
North_European: 7.05
South_Asian 3.70
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 12.22
East_Asian: 1.29
Caucasian: 38.67
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Yazidi
4.10409552 Iranian
4.52593637 Lur_Iran
4.56416476 Kurd
4.66220978 Talysh_Azerbaijan
5.21755690 Kurd_Kurmanji
5.55364745 Iranian_Fars
5.55676165 Iranians
5.66075967 Kurd_Sorani
5.75166063 Kurds
6.28953893 Zaza
6.72410589 Iran_Mazandaran
7.17453134 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.86961244 Iran_Central_East
8.10295625 Turkmen_Iraq
8.82596170 Azerbaijani
9.40961211 Azerbaijani_Turkey
9.93026686 Iran_Khorasan
11.78571593 Turk_Southeast
11.92461320 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.70927221 Uzbekistan_Jews
13.23592460 Turk_East
14.73527061 Turk_Central_East
15.11735096 Armenian_East
15.46678053 Turk_South
15.46743353 Turkmens

Target: Yazidi
Distance: 1.6277% / 1.62766363 | ADC: 0.25x
50.0 Talysh_Azerbaijan
31.0 Iranians
11.6 Iran_Mazandaran
3.2 Kurd
1.6 Argyll
1.4 Iranian_Fars
1.0 Mozabite
0.2 Portuguese