Germans from today's Poland GEDmatch

[Peterski]

At first these two samples:

One is with 100% ancestry from Glatz (Kłodzko) area, the other one 100% from Braunsberg (Braniewo) area:

Eurogenes K13, K15 and Dodecad K12b, Harappa World, MDLP K23b, MDLP K16, EUtest:

Grafschaft Glatz - http://www.grafschaft-glatz.de/kultur/kultur00.htm


GER_Glatz_K13,35.77,31.04,14.63,8.13,7.64,0.30,0,1 .02,0,0.72,0,0.72,0
GER_Glatz_K15,28.70,17.67,17.49,12.91,11.39,6.31,4 .26,0,0,0.35,0,0.25,0,0.67,0
GER_Glatz_K12b,6.67,0,0,0,31.82,45.92,0,0.17,1.96, 0,13.27,0.20
GER_Glatz_HW,0,8.09,13.55,49.67,0.23,0,0,0,0.06,0. 10,26.51,1.45,0,0,0.25,0.08
GER_Glatz_K23b,0.09,5.38,2.47,0.34,0,0,0.24,27.12, 0,0,0.40,21.54,0.79,0,0,0.92,0.20,0,0,0,0,0,40.51
GER_Glatz_K16,0,0,20.39,0,0,0,23.88,0,27.86,0,27.3 7,0,0,0.05,0,0.40
GER_Glatz_EUtest,18.67,15.11,24.60,17.83,11.39,8.7 5,3.63,0,0,0,0,0,0

Eurogenes K13, K15 and Dodecad K12b, Harappa World, MDLP K23b, MDLP K16, EUtest:

Braunsberg - https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/149786185265/ethnoreligious-map-of-east-prussia-at-the-start-of


GER_Braunsberg_K13,46.93,35.91,9.09,1.35,2.52,2.30 ,0,0.17,0.18,0.28,0.97,0.25,0.07
GER_Braunsberg_K15,32.00,27.78,18.86,14.34,4.85,0, 0,1.64,0,0,0,0,0.53,0,0
GER_Braunsberg_K12b,5.49,0.23,0.34,0,32.39,53.84,0 .30,0,1.25,0,6.14,0
GER_Braunsberg_HW,0.17,8.16,4.48,57.48,0.28,0,0,0. 60,0,0,27.55,1.15,0.10,0,0,0
GER_Braunsberg_K23b,0,3.99,2.58,0,0,0.95,0,23.03,0 .34,0,0,18.81,0,0,0,2.56,0.13,0,0,0,0,0,47.62
GER_Braunsberg_K16,0,0,22.15,0,0,0.63,18.65,0,31.9 8,0.24,26.35,0,0,0,0,0
GER_Braunsberg_EUtest,21.16,16.46,28.56,23.20,7.72 ,0.98,1.51,0.41,0,0,0,0,0

https://i.imgur.com/dA2TyIS.png

[Peterski]

Here are GEDmatch averages of few German Silesians from the Duchy of Brieg (Brzeg):

Eurogenes K13, K15 and Dodecad K12b, Harappa World, MDLP K23b, MDLP K16, EUtest:

Herzogtum Brieg - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Brzeg


GER_Brzeg_K13,34.89,35.82,13.99,5.59,7.02,0.00,0.3 0,0.00,1.04,0.75,0.25,0.24,0.12
GER_Brzeg_K15,26.29,20.14,20.86,14.12,9.57,2.87,4. 96,0,0.13,0,0.57,0.32,0,0.18,0
GER_Brzeg_K12b,4.82,0.86,0,0,29.61,49.83,0.41,0,1. 67,0.20,12.52,0.09
GER_Brzeg_HW,0.14,7.62,11.04,52.59,0,0.69,0,0,0.39 ,0.81,25.61,0.95,0.13,0,0,0.05
GER_Brzeg_K23b,0.04,3.00,2.03,0.65,0,0.17,0,25.63, 0,0.58,0.14,20.05,0.21,0,0.39,1.09,0,0.88,0.14,0,0 ,0,45.05
GER_Brzeg_K16,0.19,0.10,21.44,0,0.62,0,20.44,0.13, 29.67,0.17,27.00,0.13,0,0.14,0,0
GER_Brzeg_EUtest,23.59,15.07,22.39,19.26,10.02,5.4 1,3.80,0,0.25,0,0,0.21,0

https://i.imgur.com/QNlqKAW.png

Brieg was in Breslau Regency. Ethno-linguistic structure of this Regency in the 19th century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Silesia#Population


In year 1819, the Breslau Regency had 838,253 inhabitants, the majority of whom - 755,553 (90%) - were German-speakers; with a Polish minority numbering 66,500 (8%); as well as 8,900 Czechs (1%) and 7,300 Jews (1%).[5]

^^^ Landkreis Brieg was overhwelmingly German. Polish minority was concentrated to the north and east of it. According to R. Böckh, "Der Deutschen Volkszahl und Sprachgebiet", in year 1869 there were 448 Polish-majority settlements in Lower Silesia:

https://i.imgur.com/se9wmne.png

As ethnically Polish Lower Silesia ("das polnische Nieder-Schlesien"), Böckh defined an area with 514 settlements and 103,200 inhabitants:

https://i.imgur.com/PK5V0gx.png

[Peterski]

Comparison of Germans from Brieg vs. Glatz with Eurogenes K15:

https://i.imgur.com/lFROr6r.png https://i.imgur.com/4YhC1l1.png

^^^
Brzeg is more Slavic-like and no wonder because it was located close to Sprachgrenze (language border):

RED LINE = language border in Silesia around years 1790-1814 (to the east, Polish-speaking majority):

https://i.imgur.com/OtzUjeW.png

=====

Edit:

BTW who made Burgenland average and based on what samples?

[SharpFork]

Brzeg seems about 1/3 Germanic and 2/3 Slavic on k15, weird.

[Peterski]

Brzeg seems about 1/3 Germanic and 2/3 Slavic on k15, weird.

Yeah this is why it is closest to Czechs (who can be modelled as 61% Lublin Poles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin_Voivodeship) + 39% Celto-Germanic). Why weird though?

=====

Sudeten Germans vs. Czechs if using French Swiss / Niedersachsen / Poland Lubelskie:

GER_Sudetenland:

CH_Romandy - 42.50%
GER_Niedersachsen - 23.33%
PL_Lubelskie - 34.17%

Czechs:

CH_Romandy - 24.17%
GER_Niedersachsen - 15.00%
PL_Lubelskie - 60.83%

^^^
Glatz German is close to Sudetenland by the way, he has +/- 40% East European DNA.

Sudeten Germans were different than their Czech neighbours - significantly less Slavic.

[SharpFork]

Yeah this is why it is closest to Czechs (who can be modelled as 61% Lublin Poles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin_Voivodeship) + 39% Celto-Germanic). Why weird though?

=====

Sudeten Germans vs. Czechs if using French Swiss / Niedersachsen / Poland Lubelskie:

GER_Sudetenland:

CH_Romandy - 42.50%
GER_Niedersachsen - 23.33%
PL_Lubelskie - 34.17%

Czechs:

CH_Romandy - 24.17%
GER_Niedersachsen - 15.00%
PL_Lubelskie - 60.83%

^^^
Glatz German is close to Sudetenland by the way, he has +/- 40% East European DNA.

Sudeten Germans were different than their Czech neighbours - significantly less Slavic.

I would have imagined them to be more Eastern European, BTW which of those calculators has the most regional German samples? To compare better.

[Peterski]

I would have imagined them to be more Eastern European

BTW, this is a German 100% from Thuringia who is about as Slavic as Brzeg Germans:
(which shows that there is no rule that further east geographically = more Slavic DNA)

Eurogenes K13, K15 and Dodecad K12b, Harappa World, MDLP K23b, MDLP K16, EUtest:


Thuringia1_K13,33.65,37.28,8.89,8.93,8.56,0.72,0.1 6,0,0.57,0.13,1.10,0,0
Thuringia1_K15,25.58,19.90,21.09,15.64,5.09,7.30,4 .18,0.40,0,0,0,0,0.81,0,0
Thuringia1_K12b,6.34,1.36,0.54,0,27.38,49.13,0,0,2 .54,0,12.69,0
Thuringia1_HW,0,9.05,11.84,51.45,0,1.03,0,0.68,0.1 9,0,23.62,2.13,0,0,0,0
Thuringia1_K23b,0,2.79,3.73,0,0,0.47,0,27.72,0,0,0 .92,15.77,0,1.00,0,2.66,1.12,0,0.18,0,0,0,43.63
Thuringia1_K16,0,0,22.59,0,0.43,0.46,23.23,0,27.38 ,0.73,24.21,0.36,0,0.60,0,0
Thuringia1_EUtest,21.69,18.10,20.09,19.02,7.59,7.5 5,5.11,0.70,0,0,0,0.14,0

[SharpFork]

Have you ever seen a NE-Bavarian/Franconian sample? From the Slavic region?

[Peterski]

Have you ever seen a NE-Bavarian/Franconian sample? From the Slavic region?

Yes, and they have strong Slavic admixture.

I will send you example in a private message.

By contrast "Bavarians proper" have no Slavic.

[SharpFork]

Yes, and they have strong Slavic admixture.

I will send you example in a private message.

By contrast "Bavarians proper" have no Slavic.

How strong roughly?

[Kamal900]

It seems that Slavs had the most genetic impact in Europe including Germany. Do Poles themselves have any significant Germanic ancestry as well?

[Peterski]

How strong roughly?

In addition to Slavic he also has higher South European DNA (like Bavarians) and that's why is close to Slovenes, Hungarians, Austrians:

Upper Franconian German, Eurogenes K15:

North_Sea 23.73 Pct
Atlantic 20.61 Pct
Baltic 21.33 Pct
Eastern_Euro 11.64 Pct
West_Med 8.94 Pct
West_Asian 5.57 Pct
East_Med 7.30 Pct
Red_Sea 0.88 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 23.73
2 Baltic 21.33
3 Atlantic 20.61
4 Eastern_Euro 11.64
5 West_Med 8.94
6 East_Med 7.3
7 West_Asian 5.57
8 Red_Sea 0.88

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.47
2 Austrian 4.65
3 East_German 5.8
4 Croatian 6.48
5 Moldavian 8.89
6 South_Polish 9.28
7 Serbian 9.37
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.85
9 Ukrainian 10.65
10 Polish 11.35
11 Southwest_Finnish 11.93
12 Romanian 12.42
13 South_Dutch 12.81
14 North_German 13.1
15 Russian_Smolensk 13.37
16 West_German 13.55
17 Finnish 13.64
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.8
19 Southwest_Russian 14.9
20 North_Swedish 15.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.7% Hungarian + 37.3% Austrian @ 2.61
2 73.7% Croatian + 26.3% North_Dutch @ 3.01
3 94.8% Hungarian + 5.2% French_Basque @ 3.01
4 75.3% Croatian + 24.7% Irish @ 3.05
5 69.1% Croatian + 30.9% North_German @ 3.06
6 76.2% Croatian + 23.8% West_Scottish @ 3.15
7 74.8% Croatian + 25.2% Southeast_English @ 3.16
8 90.2% Hungarian + 9.8% North_German @ 3.19
9 92.8% Hungarian + 7.2% Irish @ 3.2
10 94.3% Hungarian + 5.7% Southwest_French @ 3.21
11 73.8% Croatian + 26.2% Danish @ 3.21
12 95.1% Hungarian + 4.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.24
13 79.5% Hungarian + 20.5% East_German @ 3.24
14 94.9% Hungarian + 5.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.25
15 93.3% Hungarian + 6.7% Southeast_English @ 3.25
16 93.7% Hungarian + 6.3% West_Scottish @ 3.25
17 78.1% Croatian + 21.9% Orcadian @ 3.27
18 95.5% Hungarian + 4.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.29
19 91.9% Hungarian + 8.1% South_Dutch @ 3.3
20 94% Hungarian + 6% Southwest_English @ 3.31

Upper Franconian German, Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 33.53 Pct
Baltic 33.35 Pct
West_Med 13.99 Pct
West_Asian 6.09 Pct
East_Med 11.30 Pct
Red_Sea 0.92 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.07 Pct
Amerindian 0.37 Pct
Oceanian 0.37 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 33.53
2 Baltic 33.35
3 West_Med 13.99
4 East_Med 11.3
5 West_Asian 6.09
6 Red_Sea 0.92
7 Amerindian 0.37
8 Oceanian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 2.86
2 Austrian 5.37
3 East_German 5.61
4 Croatian 6.55
5 Moldavian 8.82
6 Serbian 9.33
7 South_Polish 9.68
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.96
9 Ukrainian 11.72
10 West_German 13.06
11 Polish 13.3
12 Romanian 13.7
13 South_Dutch 14.31
14 North_German 14.76
15 North_Swedish 14.99
16 Southwest_Russian 15.69
17 Southwest_Finnish 15.84
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.15
19 Swedish 16.31
20 Russian_Smolensk 16.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.7% Hungarian + 16.3% East_German @ 2.69
2 91.9% Hungarian + 8.1% South_Polish @ 2.74
3 95.3% Hungarian + 4.7% Belorussian @ 2.74
4 94.2% Hungarian + 5.8% Polish @ 2.75
5 96.6% Hungarian + 3.4% Lithuanian @ 2.76
6 95.8% Hungarian + 4.2% Estonian_Polish @ 2.76
7 96.7% Hungarian + 3.3% Estonian @ 2.78
8 87.6% Hungarian + 12.4% Austrian @ 2.78
9 94.6% Hungarian + 5.4% Ukrainian @ 2.78
10 96.3% Hungarian + 3.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.79
11 96.6% Hungarian + 3.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.81
12 97.4% Hungarian + 2.6% North_Swedish @ 2.83
13 93.7% Hungarian + 6.3% Croatian @ 2.83
14 97.5% Hungarian + 2.5% Southwest_Russian @ 2.83
15 96.7% Hungarian + 3.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.84
16 98.5% Hungarian + 1.5% Southwest_French @ 2.84
17 98.2% Hungarian + 1.8% Southeast_English @ 2.84
18 98.1% Hungarian + 1.9% Swedish @ 2.84
19 99.1% Hungarian + 0.9% French_Basque @ 2.84
20 98.4% Hungarian + 1.6% Finnish @ 2.84

His ancestors are from "Bavaria Slavica":

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schw%C3%BCrbitz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapfendorf
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motschenbach_(Mainleus)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neukenroth
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensberg_(Kunreuth)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirschaid - Großbuchfeld
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilseck - Kittenberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayreuth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwiesel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landshut - Hofdorf/Krottenthal

[Peterski]

Here is a German with ancestors from the following locations:

https://i.imgur.com/obXsRwl.png

^^^
All of which are within the former Herzogtum Slawien area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavinia

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slawien

https://i.imgur.com/Fy7hXlG.png

^^^
It also corresponds to Regierungsbezirk Stettin area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stettin_(region)

https://i.imgur.com/lX55rKV.png

=====

Calculator results:

Eurogenes K13, K15, Dodecad K12b, Harappa World, MDLP K23b, MDLP K16, EUtest:


DE_Slavinia_K13,39.38,35.58,9.82,7.69,5.91,0,0,0,0 ,0,0.65,0,0.97
DE_Slavinia_K15,29.69,23.32,19.73,11.59,6.25,6.42, 2.08,0,0,0,0,0,0.33,0,0.58
DE_Slavinia_K12b,7.56,0,1.51,0,31.29,51.92,0,0,0,0 ,7.71,0
DE_Slavinia_HW,,0,9.54,8.63,56.09,0,0,0,0.18,0,0,2 5.12,0,0,0.44,0,0
DE_Slavinia_K23b,0,0,6.03,0.2,0,0.66,0,25.86,0.12, 0,0,17.4,0.21,0,0.44,0,1.66,0,0,0,0,0.4,47.01
DE_Slavinia_K16,0,0,23.67,0.34,0,0.77,22.35,0,28.8 2,0,24.05,0,0,0,0,0
DE_Slavinia_EUtest,22.93,14.43,23.05,22.57,9.7,2.1 5,4.83,0,0,0.34,0,0,0

Eurogenes K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.2% North_Dutch + 44.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.26
2 61.3% North_German + 38.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.27
3 51.3% South_Polish + 48.7% North_German @ 2.31
(...)

Similitude Map:

https://i.imgur.com/yn1QIeg.png

[Peterski]

I have one more also 100% from Regierungsbezirk Stettin / Slavinia, will update later today.

This 2nd (#2) person has ancestors from:

https://i.imgur.com/ucmhrEr.png

This one is getting in Eurogenes K13/K15:

Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 39.69
2 Baltic 36.35
3 West_Med 11.11
4 West_Asian 7.11
5 South_Asian 2
6 East_Med 1.93
7 Sub-Saharan 1.35
8 Red_Sea 0.33
9 Northeast_African 0.07
10 Oceanian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_German 6.76
2 North_Swedish 7.57
3 Austrian 9.01
4 Swedish 9.51
5 South_Polish 10.19
6 Southwest_Finnish 10.29
7 North_German 10.61
8 Hungarian 10.77
9 Polish 11.79
10 Norwegian 12.42
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.45
12 Danish 12.7
13 Ukrainian 12.88
14 North_Dutch 13.06
15 Croatian 13.17
16 West_German 14.41
17 South_Dutch 14.81
18 Orcadian 14.95
19 Russian_Smolensk 15.13
20 Finnish 15.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.8% Russian_Smolensk + 49.2% Irish @ 2.44
2 57.2% Polish + 42.8% Irish @ 2.45
3 58.8% Polish + 41.2% West_Scottish @ 2.61
4 52.4% Russian_Smolensk + 47.6% West_Scottish @ 2.66
5 51% Irish + 49% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.67
6 52% Polish + 48% Danish @ 2.72
7 50.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.4% West_Scottish @ 2.77
8 52.8% North_German + 47.2% Polish @ 2.78
9 52.7% Polish + 47.3% North_Dutch @ 2.78
10 57.2% Swedish + 42.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.82
11 51.9% Swedish + 48.1% South_Polish @ 2.83
12 50.3% Orcadian + 49.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.83
13 56.2% Polish + 43.8% Orcadian @ 2.83
14 58.1% Swedish + 41.9% Ukrainian @ 2.86
15 53.2% Russian_Smolensk + 46.8% Southwest_English @ 2.87
16 50.5% Irish + 49.5% Estonian_Polish @ 2.91
17 53.8% North_Dutch + 46.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.94
18 54.6% Danish + 45.4% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.96
19 52.1% Orcadian + 47.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.98
20 59.3% North_German + 40.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.99

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 25.54
2 Atlantic 25.05
3 Baltic 22.57
4 Eastern_Euro 11.9
5 West_Med 6.99
6 West_Asian 5.75
7 Sub-Saharan 1.23
8 South_Asian 0.97

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_German 6.65
2 Austrian 8.89
3 Southwest_Finnish 9.72
4 Hungarian 9.78
5 South_Polish 10.41
6 North_German 10.98
7 Polish 11.03
8 Croatian 11.23
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.06
10 Ukrainian 12.43
11 Finnish 12.53
12 South_Dutch 13.04
13 North_Swedish 13.3
14 Russian_Smolensk 13.49
15 Swedish 13.93
16 Danish 14.05
17 North_Dutch 14.24
18 Moldavian 14.35
19 Estonian 14.36
20 La_Brana-1 14.8

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53% Russian_Smolensk + 47% Irish @ 4.18
2 53.8% Russian_Smolensk + 46.2% Southwest_English @ 4.38
3 55.9% North_German + 44.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.42
4 53.6% Russian_Smolensk + 46.4% Southeast_English @ 4.44
5 54.6% Russian_Smolensk + 45.4% West_Scottish @ 4.62
6 60.6% South_Polish + 39.4% Irish @ 4.64
7 57.8% Russian_Smolensk + 42.2% Orcadian @ 4.75
8 51% Belorussian + 49% Southwest_English @ 4.76
9 58.9% North_German + 41.1% Belorussian @ 4.78
10 59.6% North_German + 40.4% Estonian_Polish @ 4.8
11 50.1% North_German + 49.9% Polish @ 4.81
12 54.1% Southwest_English + 45.9% Lithuanian @ 4.82
13 63.8% North_German + 36.2% Lithuanian @ 4.82
14 51.7% South_Polish + 48.3% North_German @ 4.85
15 58.9% South_Dutch + 41.1% Lithuanian @ 4.88
16 59.1% Polish + 40.9% Irish @ 4.89
17 50.2% Belorussian + 49.8% Irish @ 4.89
18 51.6% Russian_Smolensk + 48.4% North_Dutch @ 4.92
19 50.8% Belorussian + 49.2% Southeast_English @ 4.94
20 51.1% Irish + 48.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.94

Map (this one is a bit more Slavic-shifted):

https://i.imgur.com/7qfpIzN.png