23andme update [Archive] - Page 2 - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Longbowman

10-23-2020, 12:03 PM

Ok, thanks.

The background of my question was I heard eastern Ashkenazis are often somewhat mixed with Eastern European (up to 10%) while such from Germany are not and more "pure". I guess 23andMe works with sequences when indentifying AJ heritage and that mentioned admixture is part of AJ. The differences I talked about would probably just show up, if you could "switch off" the AJ component and look what different full AJ people do score. At some then EE would show up and at some not. It´s absolutely interesting to have AJ component, no doubt, but actually AJ component somwhat covers what´s behind in more general terms.

Probably, but this is admixture from hundreds of years ago, since before the Ashkenazi demographic miracle. Being Ashkenazi doesn't mean you're pure Levantine, it means you're a mix of things.

All components cover up something. To what extent is an Eastern German Slavic? to what extent are western Germans Celtic? No one is pure. 23andme's goal is to investigate semi-recent ethnicity, in the past 500 years. I would be surprised if I had any significant Eastern European ancestry in that time. Besides, my family isn't so Eastern.

Rgvgjhvv

10-23-2020, 01:41 PM

I don't know..it's gedmatch..maybe the raw data..?my gedmatch is with myheritage raw data uploaded

Yeah I was just thinking out loud really, haha. MyHeritage has good raw data.

Coastal Elite

10-23-2020, 02:03 PM

Mom's updated results

https://i.imgur.com/IM7JvZb.jpg

Great Aunt - Maternal Grandfather's sister

https://i.imgur.com/QrLmA6u.jpg

Kökény

10-23-2020, 02:35 PM

https://i.imgur.com/OClj3pP.jpg

Dunai

10-23-2020, 03:18 PM

https://i.imgur.com/OClj3pP.jpg

You have very low Balkan ancestry for a Székely, however very high German and Anatolian. A most difficult result to even try to explain :D

Kökény

10-23-2020, 03:22 PM

You have very low Balkan ancestry for a Székely, however very high German and Anatolian. A most difficult result to even try to explain :D
What about the Coptic Egyptian? xD

Benyzero

10-23-2020, 03:25 PM

What about the Coptic Egyptian? xD

Everyone knows that szeklers came from ancient egyptians

Dunai

10-23-2020, 03:33 PM

What about the Coptic Egyptian? xD

I don't give high importance to results starting with decimals. I believe if you get such high Anatolian in the first place it's not completely surprising they also give you 0.2% Coptic. What are your results at 90% confidence? It would be interesting to see how much of those remain.

Rgvgjhvv

10-23-2020, 03:51 PM

Longbowman

10-23-2020, 03:54 PM

These results are supposed to be more 'focused' yet there are plenty of people getting regions that have nothing to do with their ancestry. There seems to be a big jump in WA results for Western Euros/Euros, people everywhere getting trace Sudanese ancestry, etc. and that's just silly. I think things should be fined tuned more, perhaps a glitch of being 'beta results'?

Lol trace Sudanese is just you.

There are Greek Orthodox people in Sudan and there used to be a sizeable community. There were definitely trading links. It is really not impossible or even outlandish. We know of several Sudanese who were taken to Italy in the 19th century including one who became a hero of the war of unification.

It's not beta anymore anyhow.

Kökény

10-23-2020, 04:06 PM

I don't give high importance to results starting with decimals. I believe if you get such high Anatolian in the first place it's not completely surprising they also give you 0.2% Coptic. What are your results at 90% confidence? It would be interesting to see how much of those remain.
https://i.imgur.com/LNRicEl.jpg

Ion Basescul

10-23-2020, 04:12 PM

https://i.imgur.com/OClj3pP.jpg

It seems to be a trend for Hungarians to get "broadly" components at rates as high as in v5.2. The whole purpose of v5.9 was to reduce them.

War Chef

10-23-2020, 04:19 PM

Szeklers are so mysterious. & I thought I was mysterious as a Gagauz but your results have me scratching my head

Ion Basescul

10-23-2020, 04:20 PM

Szeklers are so mysterious. & I thought I was mysterious as a Gagauz but your results have me scratching my head

Gagauz are pretty straightforward actually, just Turkish-speaking Bulgarians.

Seya

10-23-2020, 04:24 PM

@Bosniensis's results

https://i.ibb.co/kysZhpr/greek.png

He also sent this:

https://youtu.be/yOL-EJZjmp0

:picard1: no Anatolian?? I’m disappointed

TheMaestro

10-23-2020, 04:27 PM

@Bosniensis's results

https://i.ibb.co/kysZhpr/greek.png

He also sent this:

https://youtu.be/yOL-EJZjmp0

Almost identical results with me, greetings to Sinan.

TheMaestro

10-23-2020, 04:27 PM

Everyone knows that szeklers came from ancient egyptians

Ancient Cypriots.

Rgvgjhvv

10-23-2020, 04:30 PM

Lol trace Sudanese is just you.

There are Greek Orthodox people in Sudan and there used to be a sizeable community. There were definitely trading links. It is really not impossible or even outlandish. We know of several Sudanese who were taken to Italy in the 19th century including one who became a hero of the war of unification.

It's not beta anymore anyhow.

Not just me, babyyy. I would have accepted it easier if I didn't see it a number of times already in this thread by people of different ethnicities.

Benyzero

10-23-2020, 04:31 PM

Ancient Cypriots.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/033/204/Screen_Shot_2020-03-16_at_1.09.07_PM.jpg

MsSPF

10-23-2020, 04:33 PM

And yes this update is way better!

I have ancestry from Algeria, my tribe is divided on the border of Algeria and Morocco. 1/4 of my family is Algerian. I don't have ancestry in Marrakesh-Safi, so they didn't update the regions I think.

Weird! We are both from the same region and I've got Tlemcen in first position and then Oriental, Morocco in second position (your region basically) :confused: you don't have any distant backgrounds from the south ?
I don't even have Marrakesh in my whole list

https://zupimages.net/up/20/42/ytd6.png

War Chef

10-23-2020, 04:36 PM

Exeprt from Bram Stoker's classic book "Dracula":

"We Szekelys have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights, for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Wodin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, aye, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come. Here, too, when they came, they found the Huns, whose warlike fury had swept the earth like a living flame, till the dying peoples held that in their veins ran the blood of those old witches, who, expelled from Scythia had mated with the devils in the desert. Fools, fools! What devil or what witch was ever so great as Attila, whose blood is in these veins?" He held up his arms. "Is it a wonder that we were a conquering race, that we were proud, that when the Magyar, the Lombard, the Avar, the Bulgar, or the Turk poured his thousands on our frontiers, we drove them back?"

https://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/194/dracula/4117/chapter-3/

mena

10-23-2020, 04:40 PM

Fools took away muh indonesian/philipino

https://ibb.co/LhVs2zc

I posted on reddit 23andme too.

Did you guys know this website tells you surname distribution https://forebears.io

Seya

10-23-2020, 04:43 PM

mine didn't update yet. but this is my mom's
https://i.imgur.com/NFMOoOp.jpg

Kökény

10-23-2020, 04:54 PM

Szeklers are so mysterious. & I thought I was mysterious as a Gagauz but your results have me scratching my head
Can you speak Gagauz?

War Chef

10-23-2020, 05:03 PM

Gagauz are pretty straightforward actually, just Turkish-speaking Bulgarians.

The mystery is how can one speak Turkish language without a drop of actual Turkish blood? The Ottomans never forced their language on anyone.

Can you speak Gagauz?

No I cannot.
Can you post pictures of pure blooded Szeklers? They are extremely hard to find on the internet. I am thinking of visiting Székely Land myself and doing my own research. Csangos are interesting too.

Kökény

10-23-2020, 05:39 PM

No I cannot.
Can you post pictures of pure blooded Szeklers? They are extremely hard to find on the internet. I am thinking of visiting Székely Land myself and doing my own research. Csangos are interesting too.
https://www.sepsiszentgyorgy.info/fotoblog-sepsiszentgyorgy/3749-ezer-szekely-leany-napja-2019.html

You can find some pics here from an event called "Ezer Székely Leány napja" (Day of the thousand Székely girls).

Leto

10-23-2020, 05:43 PM

I am 1/4 Kharkov Ukrainian and 23andme doesn't even give me any specific regions
In total you're probably close to 50% Slavic if we were to assume the Gagauz are half Slavic (probably more like 40% or so).

Edit:

According to the Feiichy Slavic G25 calculators (use with x0.25)

Target: Gagauz
Distance: 1.0919% / 0.01091872 | ADC: 0.25x RC
43.4 Greco-Roman
41.0 Slavic
15.6 Balkan

So I was right.

Jana

10-23-2020, 07:02 PM

What about the Coptic Egyptian? xD

I think your Anatolian could be from assimilated Armenians who converted to Catholicism in Transylvania.
You score more than double less southern Euro than Stears hehehe! (and double more German!) :p

Cool east Asian/Amerindian score!

Gründig

10-23-2020, 07:49 PM

I did the sum without calculator and maybe I am wrong, but the total seems to be 99.3.%.

Could we know what is that missing 0.7% if I did well the sum?

I didn’t post it because I didn’t originally get this and once I got it, it started changing with every update. Seems like nonsense to me but here it is:

https://i.imgur.com/yhgXKS0.jpg

altaic

10-23-2020, 08:31 PM

My 18% Anatolian (Western Turkey) all added up to Caucasia/Mesopotamia (Eastern Turkey). No more Anatolian for me lol. 0.8% Scandinavian turned out to 1% Eastern European. 0.8% Broadly East Asian became 0.5% Korean and 0.4% Indonesian :)
My parents still have around 10% Anatolian. It is weird that I do not have any Anatolian from them! It seems these results are gonna change soon again...
My dad 0.8% Central Asian and 0.4% Broadly East Asian replaced with 0.9% East Asian. Besides, he has 'likely' Iran regions (East Azerbaijan and Tehran), before it was 'possible'. He has also same 'possible' Iraq regions (Nineveh and Baghdad).

Cheers and have a fruitful weekend!

https://i.ibb.co/yfXMBhb/update.jpg

yowasgeht

10-23-2020, 09:51 PM

Seems to be more accurate now. My north-african part is now also coptic.

https://i.imgur.com/1iB0ynh.png

yowasgeht

10-23-2020, 10:32 PM

My moms results:

https://i.imgur.com/XcuL4Uq.png

Luke35

10-23-2020, 11:05 PM

https://i.imgur.com/PUMCcdC.png

Could you post your dad's updated report too please?

Skeleton

10-24-2020, 12:07 AM

French genetic divergence goes along the Loire, and Poitou-Charentes is one of the genetically southern shifted French regions.

Really? I thought it would look more central French.

RyoHazuki

10-24-2020, 12:28 AM

Really? I thought it would look more central French.

At least, it's a consensus amongst some.

calxpal

10-24-2020, 02:26 AM

My parents updated results =)

Dad:

https://i.ibb.co/nzn5GS0/Capturedad23.jpg

Mom:

https://i.ibb.co/SVyb0XC/Capturemom23.jpg

Art23

10-24-2020, 09:22 AM

I don't have ancestors from neither Poland nor Russia. This update is a step back for me compared to the previous version.

https://i.ibb.co/XtGGKkL/23andme-October-2020.png (https://imgbb.com/)

Cybele

10-24-2020, 09:29 AM

Old

https://i.imgur.com/2o5s9OG.png

New

https://i.imgur.com/PFRodRL.png

Art23

10-24-2020, 09:35 AM

Old

New

Do you have ancestors from Moldova? Seems like the new version doesn't see Moldova or perhaps they do not have enough Moldovan samples.

Cybele

10-24-2020, 10:23 AM

Do you have ancestors from Moldova? Seems like the new version doesn't see Moldova or perhaps they do not have enough Moldovan samples.
Do you mean the Republic of Moldova? I don't have ancestors from there, as far as I know. Neither from "Romania's side of Moldova".
My recent ancestry comes mainly from Transylvania. Mostly Mures county and some Alba. So, I would say the recent update is a bit more accurate when it comes to local region, for me.
Is it possible that there is a scarcity in Moldovan samples. Do you have ancestors from there?

Art23

10-24-2020, 10:40 AM

Glad that the update has been accurate for you.

Is it possible that there is a scarcity in Moldovan samples. Do you have ancestors from there?

Most likely I have both in Moldova and Romania. Genealogy researches are searching in church books for me, and there are some hints already. Some records from Chisinau are on familysearch...

Cybele

10-24-2020, 11:38 AM

Glad that the update has been accurate for you.
Thank you!

Most likely I have both in Moldova and Romania. Genealogy researches are searching in church books for me, and there are some hints already. Some records from Chisinau are on familysearch...
That's exciting, hope you will soon find lots of interesting new info about your ancestors! :) Do you know by any chance, from the data you had collected so far, when were they born or when did they live?
I've also opened a thread few months ago about genealogical research on Romanian subforum (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?325362-Creating-a-genealogical-tree-in-Romania) . In Ro we don't have a digitalised data base of the Archives. But I think that you will find indeed more documents from Republic of Moldova on Familysearch.
Also since DNA gets distributed randomly, maybe you just didn't inherit much of the Moldovan and Romanian DNA. That can be a reason why, you don't have more than 1% Greek and Balkan in your result ( that if we assume that 1% in this category is Romanian/ Moldovan).

Art23

10-24-2020, 01:05 PM

That's exciting, hope you will soon find lots of interesting new info about your ancestors! :) Do you know by any chance, from the data you had collected so far, when were they born or when did they live?

I have approximate years of birth in XIX century because of the wedding record I have discovered which states the age of my great-grandparents and that they both were Moldovan. A shock to me because I have always thought that they were Ukrainian. Now the challenge is to find their birth records. I know that Moldova was very diverse in ethnicities, but the surnames I have suggest a Romanian origin. Not all Moldovan documents are on familysearch, so I am going to contact a researcher from Moldova to see documents in Chisinau.

Also since DNA gets distributed randomly, maybe you just didn't inherit much of the Moldovan and Romanian DNA. That can be a reason why, you don't have more than 1% Greek and Balkan in your result ( that if we assume that 1% in this category is Romanian/ Moldovan).

This is in fact the lowest Greek&Balkan I have received ever. I had 8% before the update and much higher Balkan results in MyHeritage and FamilyTreeDNA.

Cybele

10-24-2020, 02:29 PM

Not all Moldovan documents are on familysearch, so I am going to contact a researcher from Moldova to see documents in Chisinau.
Best of luck in your further research!

This is in fact the lowest Greek&Balkan I have received ever. I had 8% before the update and much higher Balkan results in MyHeritage and FamilyTreeDNA.
Interesting difference in the results, heh.

Ion Basescul

10-24-2020, 03:04 PM

Bad news for those of us on older chips, but also the rest of the v5 guys when eventually a new chip appears. Their new business practice could be to offer you to upgrade to a new chip if you want to update the results.

https://i.ibb.co/yFZ7h44/image.png

https://i.ibb.co/4NJM4CQ/image.png

Jana

10-24-2020, 03:16 PM

Jana

10-24-2020, 03:44 PM

By the way, Longbowman got an update, isn't he V3 customer? Somebody correct me If I am mistaken.

Longbowman

10-24-2020, 03:46 PM

By the way, Longbowman got an update, isn't he V3 customer? Somebody correct me If I am mistaken.

I upgraded to v5 earlier this year. More money than sense.

War Chef

10-24-2020, 03:49 PM

Fuck Anne Wojcicki

I'm not paying a cent!

Kamal900

10-24-2020, 04:26 PM

I upgraded to v5 earlier this year. More money than sense.

Human greed is impossible to comprehend..

Leto

10-25-2020, 09:39 AM

Can someone post the updated results of Bakha? I'd like to have a look.

Ion Basescul

10-25-2020, 10:36 AM

Can someone post the updated results of Bakha? I'd like to have a look.

https://ibb.co/PF0YM96

https://ibb.co/gDf99ps

https://ibb.co/gmp6y6c

Leto

10-25-2020, 11:45 AM

https://ibb.co/PF0YM96

https://ibb.co/gDf99ps

https://ibb.co/gmp6y6c
Thanks. Too bad he can't comment on that right here. I've tried to bring him back but failed.

rothaer

10-25-2020, 09:28 PM

Money hungry idiots. They won't be getting my money in such case.

I administrate also two 23andMe V4 tests from deceased individuals. No "upgrade" possible. The problem with the upgrade is that it does basically dissolve a lot of broadly European (one testee I do adminstrate on V5 had 12% before the update) and the results are not comparable anymore with the non-updated results.

happycow

10-25-2020, 09:43 PM

Thanks. Too bad he can't comment on that right here. I've tried to bring him back but failed.

I miss that guy.

Rgvgjhvv

10-25-2020, 11:04 PM

Another Sudanese bitch

Skeleton

10-25-2020, 11:09 PM

At least, it's a consensus amongst some.

Oh, okay. What's the reason for the southern shift? I'd assume the direct ancestry for the French would be the Gauls but I don't know if there could be some ancestry from southern European areas when Gaul was apart of Rome.

Jana

10-25-2020, 11:11 PM

RyoHazuki

10-26-2020, 02:06 AM

Oh, okay. What's the reason for the southern shift? I'd assume the direct ancestry for the French would be the Gauls but I don't know if there could be some ancestry from southern European areas when Gaul was apart of Rome.

Natively the Gauls were always southern shifted compared to say Irish people. Celtic people were never genetically homogenous. Irish people being amongst the only Celtic ethnicities left makes former Celts from France, Switzerland, North Italy etc look "diluted".

someonenotyou

10-26-2020, 06:41 AM

My Father

Before:
https://i.imgur.com/FfvWMwS.png

After:
https://i.imgur.com/KJAK9v5.png

altaic

10-26-2020, 04:46 PM

After the update, my parents still have around 10% Anatolian. It is weird that I do not have any Anatolian from them after the update! It seems these results are gonna change soon again...

https://i.ibb.co/yfXMBhb/update.jpg

Do you guys have accurate update in general? In my case they added my 18.9% Anatolian along with all other Western Asian component into the Caucasian category.
Other remaining percentages are similar;
0.8% Scandinavian is now 1% Eastern Europe, 0.8% Broadly East Asian is now 0.9% East Asian (0.5% Korean, 0.4% South East).

Dr_Maul

10-26-2020, 05:09 PM

Are you guys have accurate update in general? In my case they added my 18.9% Anatolian along with all other Western Asian component to the Caucasian category. I guess now I am the highest Caucasian >98% after the update lol.
Other minor percentages are similar such as;
My 0.8% Scandinavian turned out 1% Eastern Europe, my Broadly East Asian 0.8% turned out 0.9% East Asian (0.5% Korean, 0.4% South East). Interesting...

Mine was accurate, but I'm surprised you got no regions? Did you not put ancestor birthplace?

altaic

10-26-2020, 05:53 PM

Mine was accurate, but I'm surprised you got no regions? Did you not put ancestor birthplace?

I actually did not put ancestor birthplace. Maybe I should update it. I have only Eastern Turkey regions. (Malatya, Elazig, Tunceli, Erzincan, Diyarbakir, Kars)
My dad has additional 8 cities from Anatolia and 4 more cities from Iran and Iraq (Tehran, East Azerbeijan, Nineveh, Baghdad)
My mum has also 5 cities from Anatolia.

Dr_Maul

10-26-2020, 05:55 PM

I actually did not put ancestor birthplace. Maybe I should update it. I have only Eastern Turkey regions. (Malatya, Elazig, Tunceli, Erzincan, Diyarbakir, Kars)
My dad has additional 8 cities from Anatolia and 4 more cities from Iran and Iraq (Tehran, East Azerbeijan, Nineveh, Baghdad)
My mum has also 5 cities from Anatolia.

I think the ancestor locations affect your regions, but I’m not sure it could just be a theory

AncientGreek

10-28-2020, 09:12 AM

https://i.imgur.com/OJRpDYU.png

Dunai

10-28-2020, 10:10 AM

https://i.imgur.com/OJRpDYU.png

Greeks seem to be the most Asiatic people in Europe, majorly surprised you get almost half, but others also get quite a lot.

AncientGreek

10-28-2020, 10:33 AM

Greeks seem to be the most Asiatic people in Europe, majorly surprised you get almost half, but others also get quite a lot.

I actually score on the low end of the Dodecanese WANA scale. Vast majority score higher. Many in the 60%-70% WANA range after the latest update. But 23andMe shouldn't be used as a way to see the amount of West Asian admixture. G25 is much more suitable than 23andMe for that purpose.

Dunai

10-28-2020, 11:08 AM

I actually score on the low end of the Dodecanese WANA scale. Vast majority score higher. Many in the 60%-70% WANA range after the latest update. But 23andMe shouldn't be used as a way to see the amount of West Asian admixture. G25 is much more suitable than 23andMe for that purpose.

I would understand that something might be considered possible noise at around 1%, but when you get so many percentages WANA I don't think the research team estimates it out of thin air.

AncientGreek

10-28-2020, 11:25 AM

I would understand that something might be considered possible noise at around 1%, but when you get so many percentages WANA I don't think the research team estimates it out of thin air.

Yes, it does exist out of thin air. Do you think I'm actually 47% Italian, too? I'm none of the things the report says. I'm mostly Dodecanese. We have a unique admixture that cannot be accurately shown using those samples they are using at 23andMe. Similar admixture might have existed on the coasts of Anatolia before the modern Turkish profile formed, but now we are unique and require our own category and reference population.

Dunai

10-28-2020, 11:31 AM

Yes, it does exist out of thin air. Do you think I'm actually 47% Italian, too? I'm none of the things the report says. I'm mostly Dodecanese. We have a unique admixture that cannot be accurately shown using those samples they are using at 23andMe. Similar admixture might have existed on the coasts of Anatolia before the modern Turkish profile formed, but now we are unique and require our own category and reference population.

But the Dodecanese islands are next to Turkey, so not surprising at all that someone from there would get so much WANA estimation. I would be the first to admit, there needs to be more fine tunening to be done, since some of the regions are way too generalized, like Eastern European, but at least the WANA region is pretty well sub-categorized, I doubt by now they lack the knowledge about that region, otherwise they wouldn't have made so many categories for it.

AncientGreek

10-28-2020, 11:44 AM

But the Dodecanese islands are next to Turkey, so not surprising at all that someone from there would get so much WANA estimation. I would be the first to admit, there needs to be more fine tunening to be done, since some of the regions are way too generalized, like Eastern European, but at least the WANA region is pretty well sub-categorized, I doubt by now they lack the knowledge about that region, otherwise they wouldn't have made so many categories for it.

With the current model, 23andMe's report for Dodecanese islanders would be accurate only if Central Anatolian Greeks were the Anatolian reference population (they're not, only Turks are).

In that case,

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.0824% / 0.01082426
50.8 Greek_Central_Anatolia
49.2 Italian_Apulia

Since they're not, this is what we should be scoring:

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.5284% / 0.01528433
69.2 Italian_Apulia
30.8 Armenian

Which shows that 23andMe gives currently gives us too much WANA.

But, the test is designed to show us our last 500 years ancestry is it not? I can tell you that most Dodecanese islanders are mostly native to the area in the last 500 years, thus it saying we are Italian, Cypriot or Iranian is wrong. I'm confused why you think it is acceptable for 23andMe to give us terribly inaccurate reports?

Leto

10-28-2020, 12:02 PM

I actually score on the low end of the Dodecanese WANA scale. Vast majority score higher. Many in the 60%-70% WANA range after the latest update. But 23andMe shouldn't be used as a way to see the amount of West Asian admixture. G25 is much more suitable than 23andMe for that purpose.
Try Dodecad K12b averages made by Kaspias
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?334248-Greek-Dodecad-K12b-Averages

Dunai

10-28-2020, 01:04 PM

With the current model, 23andMe's report for Dodecanese islanders would be accurate only if Central Anatolian Greeks were the Anatolian reference population (they're not, only Turks are).

In that case,

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.0824% / 0.01082426
50.8 Greek_Central_Anatolia
49.2 Italian_Apulia

Since they're not, this is what we should be scoring:

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.5284% / 0.01528433
69.2 Italian_Apulia
30.8 Armenian

Which shows that 23andMe gives currently gives us too much WANA.

But, the test is designed to show us our last 500 years ancestry is it not? I can tell you that most Dodecanese islanders are mostly native to the area in the last 500 years, thus it saying we are Italian, Cypriot or Iranian is wrong. I'm confused why you think it is acceptable for 23andMe to give us terribly inaccurate reports?

It's up to you if you decide to accept or not your results, but I'm speaking as someone who already seen how reliable are different genetic test companies, and thus far 23andMe is the best in estimating. Let's see if future MyHeritage estimates can top it.

Johnson Reed

08-23-2024, 07:29 AM

While I still think it is possible to objectively ascertain that there was less miscegenation in the British Empire than in the Portuguese, Spanish and possibly even French Empires, I think it did go on more than many like to acknowledge, and certainly at least some of those Brits with dark and ambiguous phenotypes may well have Black or South Asian ancestors.

I doubt it.

1) The vast majority of mixed people in the British Empire and its offshoots (i.e. the US) were reintegrated into whatever population their non-White parent came from. Why do you think Aframs are ~20% European? Many Indian tribes, especially in the Eastern US, are more European than Amerindian by blood for the same reason. It was very rare for halfslags, quadroons, and castizos to be legally married to Whites.

2) In Ireland especially, we find the idea of mixing with non-Whites to be absolutely odious and completely revolting. Hell, my great-grandfather, an Irish Catholic from County Galway born in the 1920s, wasn't thrilled when my mother got engaged to my (Catholic, fully White, and 1/4 Irish) father. (My great-grandpa had accepted my dad by the time I was born) How do you think he would have felt if his daughter had married some nappy-headed, prognathic ace of spades from the jungle or a short, hairy guy who reeked of curry? (Modern Irish leftists of course love the idea of the Irish people being bred out of existence by mixing with Third Worlders, but this is a relatively recent phenomenon)

3) Minor non-White admixture doesn't usually show up in phenotype, and especially not in pigmentation. Afrikaners look do different than any other Western Europeans, and they have 5% non-White on average (African, Khoisan, South Asian, Indonesian, and even a little Chinese in some of them). Minor admixture is more likely to show up in facial features or hair texture, both of which are controlled by many more genes than skin/hair/eye color. Someone with a blue-eyed White parent and a brown-eyed parent who had a colored mother and a blue-eyed White father has the same chance of being blue-eyed as someone with two fully White parents, one of whom was blue-eyed and the other of whom was brown eyed with a blue-eyed parent.

I mean, this guy was 1/16 Malgache (from Madagascar, likely from the blacker tribes and not the more Indonesian ones) and 1/32 Indian. 90.6% White, 9.4% non-White. Does he look any different from a fully White person from Western Germany, Benelux, and Northern France?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Bart_%28Hercules_Albertus%29_Pretorius_%281803-1889%29%2C_broer_van_Andries_Pretorius.jpg

4) DNA tests of darker Brits almost always show no non-White. Only in a few individuals is there minor Anglo-Indian.

I really do think you underestimate how much White people looked down on mixing with non-Whites (with the exception of horny White men fathering children with slaves and natives of the colonies that they didn't acknowledge or raise) up until the second half of the 20th century.

Tooting Carmen

08-23-2024, 10:06 AM

I mean, this guy was 1/16 Malgache (from Madagascar, likely from the blacker tribes and not the more Indonesian ones) and 1/32 Indian. 90.6% White, 9.4% non-White. Does he look any different from a fully White person from Western Germany, Benelux, and Northern France?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Bart_%28Hercules_Albertus%29_Pretorius_%281803-1889%29%2C_broer_van_Andries_Pretorius.jpg

It is a fuzzy b/w photo, but his nose is a little odd IMHO.

4) DNA tests of darker Brits almost always show no non-White. Only in a few individuals is there minor Anglo-Indian.

Such as Alistair McGowan and Billy Connolly.

I really do think you underestimate how much White people looked down on mixing with non-Whites (with the exception of horny White men fathering children with slaves and natives of the colonies that they didn't acknowledge or raise) up until the second half of the 20th century.

The point is the part in brackets happened more often than people like to acknowledge.

Johnson Reed

08-23-2024, 10:16 AM

It is a fuzzy b/w photo, but his nose is a little odd IMHO.

I agree that the photo quality isn't great. I don't see anything odd about his nose, though.

Or Drew Barrymore's family. She scored like 9% Indian. Possibly her Hungarian mother has some Gypsy ancestry though. Her great-grandfather was apparently 3/8 Indian. In some photos. you can see it, but he didn't look like a typical Pajeet.

The point is the part in brackets happened more often than people like to acknowledge.

Yes, but those children were virtually never allowed to join the White community, so it's not the cause of dark types among the British. I think Anglo-Indians were more accepted by the British than mulattos were, even Princess Diana had some distant Indian blood, but I've seen a lot of British DNA results and genealogies, and Anglo-Indians are also vanishingly rare, whereas blacks are nonexistent. Mixing with blacks was the ultimate taboo in Anglophone society from the middle of the 17th century until the middle of the 20th.

It's kind of funny how the lesser stigma towards Anglo-Indians vs mulattos mirrors how Indians (as much as I don't care for them) are closer to Europeans genetically than Africans are. I wonder if the British Raj officials knew about their shared Steppe ancestry. Probably not lol

TBH, I think if African-Americans looked at it objectively instead of from the viewpoint of ethnic grievance, they would be happy about their European admixture. It makes them more attractive (whether you believe Europeans are actually more attractive than Africans or not, European features are clearly preferred in the society Aframs live in, so looking less African/more European benefits them socially), raises their IQ, and gives them some level of connection to the founding stock of the nation.

Deep down they seem to know this, look at the way they tend to prefer "light-skinned" women. But "light-skinned blacks" are actually just Aframs with higher amounts of European admixture, not some naturally occurring African phenomenon.