Serbian autosomal DNA #2

[vbnetkhio]

The old thread (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA/page115) is now over 100 pages long, and I have collected many new samples, so it's time for an update.

with the new samples, the average for Vojvodina changed significantly, and for other regions, old averages which were made from much less samples were confirmed, but some minor components which seemed to stick out were polished.

territorial division:

https://i.imgur.com/FiJEuwH.jpg

it's based on a combination of dialectal (https://i.imgur.com/qikyXTS.png) and ethnographic (https://i.redd.it/2wz8bnb6z3h21.png) differences, and historical-geographical regions.

the averages:

_North_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedRed _SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOceania nNortheast_AfrSub_Saharan
Serb_Herzegovina24.2428.4217.699.1216.531.920.170. 270.570.440.40.160.07
Serb_Montenegro_South24.0625.4418.6610.1117.522.21 0.270.260.740.370.280.020.05
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper25.3931.4316.488.3714.31.350.640.36 0.910.430.260.070.01
Serb_B&H_Krajina24.4131.116.689.7214.291.210.390.240.760. 340.690.070.1
Serb_Croatia_south25.4829.5216.948.3815.571.700.48 0.300.680.440.330.120.05
Serb_Croatia_north25.2230.6616.369.315.131.350.540 .290.330.380.350.040.02
Serb_Serbia_south23.5528.4516.829.816.962.090.510. 300.600.380.270.120.12
Serb_Serbia_central24.8929.5216.748.4916.391.750.2 70.230.730.530.240.070.09
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina24.7228.7117.219.0716.011.50. 650.50.540.530.30.070.15
Serb_Serbia_west25.5429.3217.49.2114.741.290.570.2 50.850.480.20.060.1

vahaduo format:


Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Montenegro_South,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,17.5 2,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper,25.39,31.43,16.48,8.37,14.3,1.35,0 .64,0.36,0.91,0.43,0.26,0.07,0.01
Serb_B&H_Krajina,24.41,31.1,16.68,9.72,14.29,1.21,0.39,0. 24,0.76,0.34,0.69,0.07,0.1
Serb_Croatia_south,25.48,29.52,16.94,8.38,15.57,1. 70,0.48,0.30,0.68,0.44,0.33,0.12,0.05
Serb_Croatia_north,25.22,30.66,16.36,9.3,15.13,1.3 5,0.54,0.29,0.33,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.02
Serb_Serbia_south,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15
Serb_Serbia_west,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1


sample size:
all 18-20, except Croatia_South(Lika and Dalmatia) which has 66 samples.

if anybody's interested in individual results, PM me.

[vbnetkhio]

PCA of Serbs and neighbouring populations:

https://i.imgur.com/5SiuPOx.png

my conclusions from this PCA would be:

1)all Serbs cluster together, except those from southern Montenegro, who stand out by being less Slavic.
2)on a population level, there wasn't much mixing with neighbouring populations.

The level of mixing with Bosniaks, South Croats, Bulgarians and Romanians is impossible do detect though, because of how close they plot to Serbs.

[vbnetkhio]

now, with the most relevant ancient populations:
https://i.imgur.com/ThLbln0.png

the pre-Slavic population in most of what we call Balkans was pretty similar, according to G25 (and k13) something similar to Mycenaeans.
In Bulgaria and Southeast Serbia (and eastern Romania and Moldavia), the pre-Slavic population was a bit more Anatolian shifted, and in the western Balkans it was a bit more Pannonian.

but The Herzegovina region also has an increased Anatolian shift, despite being in the Western Balkans.

So, it's not strictily geographic, it just depends on where there was more middle eastern settlement during the Roman Empire.

the Hungarians and North Croats are competely different. Their pre-Slavic population were the Pannonian Romans, and they also have some extra Germanic on top of that.

[Ion Basescul]

What is your explanation on why you guys are so homogeneous?
Did most of the ancestors live very close to one another and it's only recently that the territory expanded significantly?

[vbnetkhio]

What is your explanation on why you guys are so homogeneous?
Did most of the ancestors live very close to one another and it's only recently that the territory expanded significantly?

-Western Serbs (from the western half of Serbia, Croatia, B&H, north Montenegro) traditionally spoke the Eastern Herzegovinian dialect. (which originates from Herzegovina, obviously.)
-Serbs from central Serbia speak the Kosovo-Resava dialect (which originates from Northern Kosovo, which is close to Herzegovina, and the dialect is similar too.)
-Vojvodina Serbs spoke a dialect between these 2.

so all these regions had significant population declines (because it was a very turbulent area, a border region between empires) and then there was resettlement from Herzegovina and Kosovo, to such a degree that the previous dialects died out.

except these dialects, there are also the Zeta-Raška dialect (in Southern Montenegro), and the Prizern Timok dialect (in South-East Serbia) and as you can see, those 2 regions are exactly the ones which stand out from the rest autosomally.

for Southeast Serbia it's less obvious because their Baltic level is similar to other Serbs, but if you look at the other components, the difference is more obvious.

also take into account that we are talking about a much smaller area and popualtion than that of, let's say, Romanians.

[Varda]

What is your explanation on why you guys are so homogeneous?
Did most of the ancestors live very close to one another and it's only recently that the territory expanded significantly?

Most of Serbs from Croatia were isolated from other Serbs 500 years, they had only strong connection with Serbs from Bosnian Krajina (western Bosnia).


Here is y dna of Serbs from Croatia from 23andMe (360 samples) posted by moderator from site Poreklo (Небојша) and that is а forum of "Serbian dna project https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1193.msg152288#msg152288

His last two sentences: It would be said that among Serbs from Croatia (Krajina) is the least variety of haplogroups/sub-branches. Reasons are more or less known, some kind of isolation.

[vbnetkhio]

What is your explanation on why you guys are so homogeneous?
Did most of the ancestors live very close to one another and it's only recently that the territory expanded significantly?

also check out Mingle's map of Serbian migrations:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?307291-Serb-Migrations-Map

and this map of central Serbia:
https://i.redd.it/2wz8bnb6z3h21.png

pink- settlers from Herzegovina, and the red spots are oases of non Herzegovinian locals.

green - settlers from Kosovo
blue- the older population of Eastern Serbia, but they also speak the Kosovo dialect.

yellow - the "South Morava (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Morava) Serbs"
dark red - Shopi and Torlaks
these 3 are the natives of Southeast Serbia with some ethnographic and dialectal differences.

and that grayish zone in the top right corner are the "Vlachs" (Romanians from Oltenia and Banat.)

[vbnetkhio]

Most of Serbs from Croatia were isolated from other Serbs 500 years, they had only strong connection with Serbs from Bosnian Krajina (western Bosnia).


Here is y dna of Serbs from Croatia from 23andMe (360 samples) posted by moderator from site Poreklo (Небојша) and that is а forum of "Serbian dna project https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1193.msg152288#msg152288

His last two sentences: It would be said that among Serbs from Croatia (Krajina) is the least variety of haplogroups/sub-branches. Reasons are more or less known, some kind of isolation.

yes, because of this isolation, haplogroups like J2b1, N-P189.2, I-P109, had a founder effect among Krajina Serbs.
other western Serbs originate from the same places as Serbs from Croatia, and they also have those haplogroups, but they didn't have such a big founder effect.

just compare the autosomal of Lika/Dalmatia and Western Serbia.

[Varda]

yes, because of this isolation, haplogroups like J2b1, N-P189.2, I-P109, had a founder effect among Krajina Serbs.
other western Serbs originate from the same places as Serbs from Croatia, and they also have those haplogroups, but they didn't have such a big founder effect.

just compare the autosomal of Lika/Dalmatia and Western Serbia.

E1b among Serbs from Croatia is similar as Herzegovinian and western Serbia Serbs. It's bellow Serbian average.

Serbs from Croatia are similar as western Serbia Serbs (especially Serb_Croatia_south), but still both are more northern shifted than Herzegovinian Serbs. How do you explain this?
Also, how you explain high similarity between Herzegovinian and southern Serbs and we know they are not connected with migrations and dialect? According to your work Herzegovinian Serbs are autosomally quite closer to southern Serbs than to Bosnian proper, Bosnian Krajina and Serbs from Croatia. The fact is that Herzegovinian Serbs are linguistically and by migrations are connected with Serbs from Bosnia/Croatia, not with southern Serbs (Torlakian speakers).

[vbnetkhio]

E1b among Serbs from Croatia is similar as Herzegovinian and western Serbia Serbs. It's bellow Serbian average.

Serbs from Croatia are similar as western Serbia Serbs (especially Serb_Ctoatia_south), but still are both more northern shifted than Herzegovinian Serbs. How do you explain this?

I think there was a first migration wave from Herzegovina which was more Slavic, and then in the following centuries there were additional waves which were less Slavic, because they came from the more isolated mountainous parts of Herzegovina (Drobnjak, Piva) and even from South Montenegro (Kuči, Vasojevići), also Kriči, which were from in between.

So Serbs in the Trebinje, Nevesinje etc, got the most from these following waves, and those in Banija, Northern Bosnia and Mačva the least, so they are actually closer to the original autosomal dna of Herzegovinians.

[Dušan]

What is your explanation on why you guys are so homogeneous?
Did most of the ancestors live very close to one another and it's only recently that the territory expanded significantly?

https://i.imgur.com/DUGyBfv.png

[Varda]

I think there was a first migration wave from Herzegovina which was more Slavic, and then in the following centuries there were additional waves which were less Slavic, because they came from the more isolated mountainous parts of Herzegovina (Drobnjak, Piva) and even from South Montenegro (Kuči, Vasojevići), also Kriči, which were from in between.

So Serbs in the Trebinje, Nevesinje etc, got the most from these following waves, and those in Banija, Northern Bosnia and Mačva the least, so they are actually closer to the original autosomal dna of Herzegovinians.

So, you think Serbs from more northern shifted regions are closer to medieval Herzegovinian Serbs than present day Herzegovinian Serbs who are Montenegrin influenced.
Large part of present day Serbs from East Herzegovina originated from Old/Montenegrin Herzegovina (migrations in 17th and 18th century), but still Brda immigrants are not that common. Also, there is many Serbs in East Herzegovina who are there since middle age (mostly around Trebinje, Bileća and Gacko). Nevesinje area is lack of natives, local Serbs there are mostly settlers from Old Herzegovina and more eastern part of East Herzegovina (Trebinje-Bileća-Gacko). Ljubinje area has more natives than Nevesinje, but still less than Trebinje-Bileća-Gacko.

[Dušan]

Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Montenegro_South,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,17.5 2,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper,25.39,31.43,16.48,8.37,14.3,1.35,0 .64,0.36,0.91,0.43,0.26,0.07,0.01
Serb_B&H_Krajina,24.41,31.1,16.68,9.72,14.29,1.21,0.39,0. 24,0.76,0.34,0.69,0.07,0.1
Serb_Croatia_south,25.48,29.52,16.94,8.38,15.57,1. 70,0.48,0.30,0.68,0.44,0.33,0.12,0.05
Serb_Croatia_north,25.22,30.66,16.36,9.3,15.13,1.3 5,0.54,0.29,0.33,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.02
Serb_Serbia_south,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15
Serb_Serbia_west,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1

.

Nice, I got these averages, 27 out of 50 in 2-way mixed mode.

Distance to: Dušan
3.04023288 93.00% Moldova_North + 7.00% Sardinia
3.82871153 10.00% Erzya_Mordovian + 90.00% Serb_B&H_Krajina
3.82996621 61.60% Albanian_Gheg + 38.40% Latvian
3.84834840 39.40% Latvian + 60.60% Torbesh_average
3.88508999 20.60% Erzya_Mordovian + 79.40% Serb_Herzegovina
3.89087845 8.40% Russian_Pinega + 91.60% Serb_B&H_Krajina
3.90020461 7.60% Latvian + 92.40% Serb_B&H_Krajina
3.90998120 10.00% Russian_Kargopol + 90.00% Serb_B&H_Krajina
3.94660775 10.80% Russian_average + 89.20% Serb_B&H_Krajina
3.96845388 75.40% Serb_B&H_Krajina + 24.60% Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
3.99028896 49.80% Russian_average + 50.20% Torbesh_average
3.99206139 10.20% Belarusian_Minsk + 89.80% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.00603254 7.40% France_Corsica + 92.60% Moldova_North
4.01692630 24.20% Latvian + 75.80% Moldova_South
4.02137610 87.40% Serb_B&H_Krajina + 12.60% Ukrainian
4.03016301 48.80% Belarusian_Minsk + 51.20% Torbesh_average
4.03047268 51.20% Albanian_Gheg + 48.80% Russian_average
4.03294599 16.20% Erzya_Mordovian + 83.80% Serb
4.03483576 50.20% Moldova_North + 49.80% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.03651702 21.20% Russian_Kargopol + 78.80% Serb_Herzegovina
4.03888369 44.60% Torbesh_average + 55.40% Ukrainian
4.05908393 52.20% Albanian_Gheg + 47.80% Belarusian_Minsk
4.06331284 7.60% Lithuanian + 92.40% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.06483251 32.00% Belarusian_Minsk + 68.00% Moldova_South
4.07736321 9.00% Russian_Kostroma + 91.00% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.08523568 23.40% Latvian + 76.60% Serb_Montenegro_South
4.08865038 42.80% Moldova_South + 57.20% Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
4.09555519 73.40% Moldova_North + 26.60% Serb_Herzegovina
4.09626619 22.80% Russian_average + 77.20% Serb_Herzegovina
4.10590413 45.60% Albanian_Gheg + 54.40% Ukrainian
4.10967471 10.60% Russian_Southwest + 89.40% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.11188636 16.20% Latvian + 83.80% Serb_Herzegovina
4.11893325 54.80% Moldova_North + 45.20% Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper
4.12002967 90.40% Moldova_North + 9.60% Torbesh_average
4.12264094 59.00% Greek_Eastern-Macedonia + 41.00% Latvian
4.12540722 14.00% Moldova_Ukrainian + 86.00% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.12811987 9.40% Russian_Smolensk + 90.60% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.13703920 74.60% Bosniak_Sandzak + 25.40% Latvian
4.13926234 33.60% Latvian + 66.40% Macedonia_south
4.14019348 68.40% Moldova_North + 31.60% Serb
4.14139916 5.60% Mari + 94.40% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.14214722 60.40% Albanian + 39.60% Latvian
4.14271858 23.20% Latvian + 76.80% Romania_Banat
4.14519935 78.80% Serb_B&H_Krajina + 21.20% Ukrainian_Carpathian
4.14887737 62.20% Moldova_South + 37.80% Ukrainian
4.15470934 6.40% Chuvash + 93.60% Serb_B&H_Krajina
4.15638040 33.40% Moldova_South_Gagauzia + 66.60% Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
4.16615570 9.60% Albanian_Gheg + 90.40% Moldova_North
4.17652272 70.00% Moldova_North + 30.00% Serb_Serbia_west
4.17825465 7.20% IT_Lombardy + 92.80% Moldova_North

[Ion Basescul]

also take into account that we are talking about a much smaller area and popualtion than that of, let's say, Romanians.

I understand, but there's bigger diversity even in my small country of 30k km^2, where the genetic profile of ethnic Moldovans/Romanians can vary from Bulgarian to Ukrainian-like.

[vbnetkhio]

So, you think Serbs from more northern shifted regions are closer to medieval Herzegovinian Serbs than present day Herzegovinian Serbs who are Montenegrin influenced.
yes, i'm sure this is the biggest reason, haplogroups also support this.

check what Nebojsa says here about families in Bosnian Krajina:
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=606.msg131672#msg131672

СТАРОСЕДЕОЦИ - Serbs native to Bosnia, but later he explains they also came from Herzegovina.
ДОСЕЉЕНИЦИ - (Досељеници из Рашке, црногорске и јужне Херцеговине, Приморја и Македоније, преко Северне Далмације)

I calculated the percentages:

_СТАРОСЕДЕОЦИ ДОСЕЉЕНИЦИ
e6.2514.86
g0.002.70
i115.631.35
i240.6324.32
j2a0.005.41
j2b0.0014.86
n23.139.46
r1a34.3818.92
r1b0.008.11

The "doseljenici" are obviously more "southern" by Y-DNA..
and "starosoedeoci" represent the original Herzegovina Serbs, and they are also the reason Bosnian Krajina is autosomally more Slavic.



Large part of present day Serbs from East Herzegovina originated from Old/Montenegrin Herzegovina (migrations in 17th and 18th century), but still Brda immigrants are not that common. Also, there is many Serbs in East Herzegovina who are there since middle age (mostly around Trebinje, Bileća and Gacko). Nevesinje are are is lack of natives, local Serbs there are mostly settlers from Old Herzegovina and more eastern part of East Herzegovina (Trebinje-Bileća-Gacko). Ljubinje area has more natives than Nevesinje, but still less than Trebinje-Bileća-Gacko.

I know Herzegovina Serbs have a lot of I2 and R1a. but maybe the admixture came through maternal lines? taking wives from the mountain tribes etc :)
idk. Maybe you can find a result from Trebinje, Bileća and Gacko, and it will be more Slavic. But you have to message them and ask them if they really have all 4 grandparents from there, otherwise we'll never be sure.

[Varda]

yes, i'm sure this is the biggest reason, haplogroups also support this.

check what Nebojsa says here about families in Bosnian Krajina:
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=606.msg131672#msg131672

СТАРОСЕДЕОЦИ - Serbs native to Bosnia, but later he explains they also came from Herzegovina.
ДОСЕЉЕНИЦИ - (Досељеници из Рашке, црногорске и јужне Херцеговине, Приморја и Македоније, преко Северне Далмације)

I calculated the percentages:

_СТАРОСЕДЕОЦИ ДОСЕЉЕНИЦИ
e6.2514.86
g0.002.70
i115.631.35
i240.6324.32
j2a0.005.41
j2b0.0014.86
n23.139.46
r1a34.3818.92
r1b0.008.11

The "doseljenici" are obvoiously more "southern" by Y-DNA..



I know Herzegovina Serbs have a lot of I2 and R1a. but maybe the admixture came through maternal lines? taking wives from the mountain tribes etc :)
idk. Maybe you can find a result from Trebinje, Bileća and Gacko, and it will be more Slavic. But you have to message them and ask them if they really have all 4 grandparents from there, otherwise we'll never be sure.

Northern paternal lines (I2a+R1a+I1):
Natives - 90.64%
Settlers from southeast - 44.59%
It seems native element among Bosanska Krajina Serbs is underestimated. Vast majority of them claim further origin from Montenegro. Bosanska Krajina Serbs are 31.1 Baltic, and Montenegrin Serbs are 25.44.
When I said natives among this term can be hidden old settlers from Herzegovina from second half of 15th century, not only medieval people of Donji Kraji. It seems it's case with large part of Serbs from Zmijanje.

[vbnetkhio]

I understand, but there's bigger diversity even in my small country of 30k km^2, where the genetic profile of ethnic Moldovans/Romanians can vary from Bulgarian to Ukrainian-like.

i think there was simply somewhat recent mixing between Romanians, Bulgarians and Ukrainians, which still hasn't evened out autosomally.

Romania is much larger, and if you just remove the "Romania_Moldavia_North" average, the Romanian cluster is about equally sized as the Serbian one on a PCA.

[Ion Basescul]

PCA of Serbs and neighbouring populations:

https://i.imgur.com/5SiuPOx.png

my conclusions from this PCA would be:

1)all Serbs cluster together, except those from southern Montenegro, who stand out by being less Slavic.
2)on a population level, there wasn't much mixing with neighbouring populations.

The level of mixing with Bosniaks, South Croats, Bulgarians and Romanians is impossible do detect though, because of how close they plot to Serbs.

For that Romanian_SW cluster of 3, I suppose you are using the 3 counties that border Serbia?
If that's the case, here are the latest figures:

Romania_Banat_Timis,23.03,25.76,17.62,11.02,17.37, 1.89,0.76,0.60,1.00,0.58,0.25,0.10,0.03
Romania_Banat_Caras-Severin,23.48,25.61,17.93,10.12,17.74,2.11,0.26,0. 44,1.44,0.36,0.30,0.05,0.18
Romania_Oltenia_Mehedinti,23.43,25.03,17.70,10.80, 17.97,2.06,0.71,0.97,0.45,0.39,0.44,0.03,0.01

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Location/Ethnicity
Number of Samples
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan


Timis
27
23.03
25.76
17.62
11.02
17.37
1.89
0.76
0.60
1.00
0.58
0.25
0.10
0.03


Caras-Severin
8
23.48
25.61
17.93
10.12
17.74
2.11
0.26
0.44
1.44
0.36
0.30
0.05
0.18

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Location/Ethnicity
Number of Samples
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan


Mehedinti
16
23.43
25.03
17.70
10.80
17.97
2.06
0.71
0.97
0.45
0.39
0.44
0.03
0.01

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

[vbnetkhio]

34 academic samples from Belgrade (actually recent sttlers from all regions.)
the average turns out very similar to the one for central Serbia.



Serb_Serbia_Belgrade,24.63,28.28,16.75,9.19,16.83, 1.77,0.32,0.34,0.72,0.48,0.48,0.14,0.07

SerbianSerbia1,23.85,31.99,16.68,8.29,14.51,2.46,1 .75,0.00,0.07,0.12,0.28,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia10,22.40,24.90,18.50,10.78,18.85,2.45 ,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.00,0.00,0.50,0.00
SerbianSerbia11,32.83,25.22,15.54,10.19,12.78,1.61 ,0.00,0.09,0.96,0.74,0.00,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia12,23.75,27.12,18.36,6.58,19.21,1.04, 0.94,1.04,0.91,0.39,0.57,0.09,0.00
SerbianSerbia16,23.03,30.75,15.57,9.11,17.94,0.00, 0.00,0.00,1.67,0.26,1.32,0.35,0.00
SerbianSerbia18,25.20,27.30,16.56,7.16,18.75,2.17, 0.00,0.79,1.01,0.68,0.36,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia19,24.72,30.80,16.20,6.70,16.83,2.34, 0.74,0.00,0.00,1.44,0.25,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia2,23.91,26.26,19.59,10.08,15.34,2.08, 1.64,0.00,0.82,0.05,0.24,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia3,23.85,29.91,15.93,9.22,17.53,1.55,0 .34,0.84,0.66,0.00,0.18,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia4,20.74,26.60,18.84,9.42,20.10,0.95,0 .26,0.16,0.28,1.79,0.86,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia5,24.56,25.23,18.49,10.55,18.10,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.81,0.88,0.99,0.38,0.00
SerbianSerbia6,24.42,31.15,14.57,8.94,15.72,2.09,0 .56,0.65,0.00,0.87,1.04,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia7,23.71,28.05,17.76,9.21,17.80,0.19,0 .00,0.00,1.34,0.00,1.28,0.14,0.51
SerbianSerbia9,24.97,28.43,16.20,10.66,15.76,1.77, 0.00,1.42,0.00,0.63,0.16,0.00,0.00
Serbia_710,29.28,25.74,13.83,8.76,16.85,2.65,0.00, 1.09,0.99,0.14,0.65,0.00,0.01
Serbia_711,26.11,31.61,15.59,8.22,15.87,0.60,0.00, 0.00,1.40,0.05,0.00,0.00,0.55
Serbia_712,25.47,30.70,16.36,4.84,18.59,2.25,0.00, 0.02,0.26,0.50,0.00,0.99,0.01
Serbia_713,22.57,29.72,19.33,11.57,13.11,0.74,0.01 ,0.00,0.13,0.90,1.50,0.00,0.42
Serbia_714,19.70,24.41,17.48,13.26,21.56,0.98,0.01 ,0.01,0.61,0.00,0.61,1.24,0.12
Serbia_715,28.15,26.57,16.44,8.42,16.29,1.94,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.56,1.63,0.00,0.00
Serbia_716,20.66,25.68,16.43,9.61,21.92,3.62,0.37, 1.29,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.43,0.00
Serbia_717,24.73,30.12,18.92,6.34,14.26,3.08,0.06, 1.29,0.00,0.71,0.06,0.25,0.18
Serbia_718,28.40,28.03,13.04,10.62,14.50,3.16,0.93 ,0.24,0.00,0.65,0.41,0.01,0.00
Serbia_719,21.82,32.77,13.85,13.41,12.81,2.73,0.00 ,0.02,0.32,1.43,0.85,0.00,0.00
Serbia_720,21.39,28.76,17.30,9.16,18.62,2.97,0.00, 0.60,0.87,0.11,0.23,0.00,0.00
Serbia_721,26.41,31.29,12.38,7.21,18.57,3.10,0.00, 0.00,0.60,0.43,0.00,0.00,0.00
Serbia_722,23.25,26.84,17.84,9.79,19.09,0.00,0.52, 0.00,2.13,0.00,0.27,0.23,0.04
Serbia_723,23.28,30.45,15.46,11.17,16.62,1.84,0.02 ,0.62,0.00,0.00,0.55,0.00,0.00
Serbia_724,24.56,30.52,17.56,8.23,17.28,0.39,0.00, 0.18,1.28,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Serbia_725,18.62,32.58,19.07,10.70,15.96,0.03,1.15 ,0.00,1.66,0.00,0.00,0.10,0.13
Serbia_726,27.66,23.15,17.84,10.22,15.44,3.35,0.03 ,0.25,1.19,0.14,0.73,0.00,0.00
Serbia_727,23.55,29.76,17.18,7.86,18.06,1.17,0.01, 0.43,0.00,1.18,0.79,0.00,0.00
Serbia_728,30.77,24.11,16.04,8.82,14.13,2.51,1.41, 0.03,0.39,1.72,0.08,0.00,0.00
Serbia_729,29.16,25.13,18.65,7.35,13.40,2.48,0.00, 0.51,2.43,0.00,0.46,0.00,0.45

[Varda]

I know Herzegovina Serbs have a lot of I2 and R1a. but maybe the admixture came through maternal lines? taking wives from the mountain tribes etc :)
idk. Maybe you can find a result from Trebinje, Bileća and Gacko, and it will be more Slavic. But you have to message them and ask them if they really have all 4 grandparents from there, otherwise we'll never be sure.

According to my information this is K13 of Serbian woman from Trebinje area 105907

Her surname came from Maleševci clan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maleševci
Y dna of Maleševci is I2-PH908

[vbnetkhio]

For that Romanian_SW cluster of 3, I suppose you are using the 3 counties that border Serbia?
If that's the case, here are the latest figures:

Romania_Banat_Timis,23.03,25.76,17.62,11.02,17.37, 1.89,0.76,0.60,1.00,0.58,0.25,0.10,0.03
Romania_Banat_Caras-Severin,23.48,25.61,17.93,10.12,17.74,2.11,0.26,0. 44,1.44,0.36,0.30,0.05,0.18
Romania_Oltenia_Mehedinti,23.43,25.03,17.70,10.80, 17.97,2.06,0.71,0.97,0.45,0.39,0.44,0.03,0.01

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 111px"><col width="117"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Location/Ethnicity
Number of Samples
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan


Timis
27
23.03
25.76
17.62
11.02
17.37
1.89
0.76
0.60
1.00
0.58
0.25
0.10
0.03


Caras-Severin
8
23.48
25.61
17.93
10.12
17.74
2.11
0.26
0.44
1.44
0.36
0.30
0.05
0.18

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>


<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 111px"><col width="117"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Location/Ethnicity
Number of Samples
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan


Mehedinti
16
23.43
25.03
17.70
10.80
17.97
2.06
0.71
0.97
0.45
0.39
0.44
0.03
0.01

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

I used Banat, Oltenia and these unconfirmed (but very probable) Vlachs from Serbia.



Vlach_avg,23.71,26.49,18.49,8.95,17.78,1.71,0.87,0 .40,0.46,0.39,0.59,0.03,0.18

Vlach1,25.17,26.70,18.87,6.81,17.69,1.75,0.20,0.54 ,0.21,0.56,1.71,0.00,0.33
Vlach2,25.59,27.28,19.03,6.84,17.11,0.00,2.30,0.27 ,0.98,0.00,0.60,0.00,0.00
Vlach3,22.09,27.48,20.27,8.64,18.77,0.00,0.00,1.19 ,1.43,0.00,0.13,0.00,0.00
Vlach4,21.26,26.38,19.71,13.31,15.83,2.26,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.29,0.00,0.25,0.70
Vlach5,25.17,26.70,18.87,6.81,17.69,1.75,0.20,0.54 ,0.21,0.56,1.17,0.00,0.33
Vlach6,23.10,21.98,18.88,11.09,19.55,2.22,1.43,0.0 0,0.00,1.51,0.24,0.00,0.00
Vlach7,27.98,28.63,15.19,10.17,15.46,0.38,0.35,0.0 0,0.00,0.91,0.50,0.00,0.42
Vlach8,22.34,26.03,17.69,7.82,19.23,2.64,2.18,0.00 ,1.43,0.10,0.54,0.00,0.00
Vlach9,21.32,27.79,19.59,7.96,17.86,2.70,1.08,0.76 ,0.00,0.00,0.87,0.00,0.00
Vlach10,23.10,25.91,16.83,10.03,18.57,3.38,0.94,0. 74,0.33,0.00,0.17,0.00,0.00


they look like Oltenia+Banat+ a little bit Serbian.

[vbnetkhio]

--

[Ion Basescul]

34 academic samples from Belgrade (actually recent sttlers from all regions.)
the average turns out very similar to the one for central Serbia.



Serb_Serbia_Belgrade,24.63,28.28,16.75,9.19,16.83, 1.77,0.32,0.34,0.72,0.48,0.48,0.14,0.07

SerbianSerbia1,23.85,31.99,16.68,8.29,14.51,2.46,1 .75,0.00,0.07,0.12,0.28,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia10,22.40,24.90,18.50,10.78,18.85,2.45 ,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.00,0.00,0.50,0.00
SerbianSerbia11,32.83,25.22,15.54,10.19,12.78,1.61 ,0.00,0.09,0.96,0.74,0.00,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia12,23.75,27.12,18.36,6.58,19.21,1.04, 0.94,1.04,0.91,0.39,0.57,0.09,0.00
SerbianSerbia16,23.03,30.75,15.57,9.11,17.94,0.00, 0.00,0.00,1.67,0.26,1.32,0.35,0.00
SerbianSerbia18,25.20,27.30,16.56,7.16,18.75,2.17, 0.00,0.79,1.01,0.68,0.36,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia19,24.72,30.80,16.20,6.70,16.83,2.34, 0.74,0.00,0.00,1.44,0.25,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia2,23.91,26.26,19.59,10.08,15.34,2.08, 1.64,0.00,0.82,0.05,0.24,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia3,23.85,29.91,15.93,9.22,17.53,1.55,0 .34,0.84,0.66,0.00,0.18,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia4,20.74,26.60,18.84,9.42,20.10,0.95,0 .26,0.16,0.28,1.79,0.86,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia5,24.56,25.23,18.49,10.55,18.10,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.81,0.88,0.99,0.38,0.00
SerbianSerbia6,24.42,31.15,14.57,8.94,15.72,2.09,0 .56,0.65,0.00,0.87,1.04,0.00,0.00
SerbianSerbia7,23.71,28.05,17.76,9.21,17.80,0.19,0 .00,0.00,1.34,0.00,1.28,0.14,0.51
SerbianSerbia9,24.97,28.43,16.20,10.66,15.76,1.77, 0.00,1.42,0.00,0.63,0.16,0.00,0.00
Serbia_710,29.28,25.74,13.83,8.76,16.85,2.65,0.00, 1.09,0.99,0.14,0.65,0.00,0.01
Serbia_711,26.11,31.61,15.59,8.22,15.87,0.60,0.00, 0.00,1.40,0.05,0.00,0.00,0.55
Serbia_712,25.47,30.70,16.36,4.84,18.59,2.25,0.00, 0.02,0.26,0.50,0.00,0.99,0.01
Serbia_713,22.57,29.72,19.33,11.57,13.11,0.74,0.01 ,0.00,0.13,0.90,1.50,0.00,0.42
Serbia_714,19.70,24.41,17.48,13.26,21.56,0.98,0.01 ,0.01,0.61,0.00,0.61,1.24,0.12
Serbia_715,28.15,26.57,16.44,8.42,16.29,1.94,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.56,1.63,0.00,0.00
Serbia_716,20.66,25.68,16.43,9.61,21.92,3.62,0.37, 1.29,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.43,0.00
Serbia_717,24.73,30.12,18.92,6.34,14.26,3.08,0.06, 1.29,0.00,0.71,0.06,0.25,0.18
Serbia_718,28.40,28.03,13.04,10.62,14.50,3.16,0.93 ,0.24,0.00,0.65,0.41,0.01,0.00
Serbia_719,21.82,32.77,13.85,13.41,12.81,2.73,0.00 ,0.02,0.32,1.43,0.85,0.00,0.00
Serbia_720,21.39,28.76,17.30,9.16,18.62,2.97,0.00, 0.60,0.87,0.11,0.23,0.00,0.00
Serbia_721,26.41,31.29,12.38,7.21,18.57,3.10,0.00, 0.00,0.60,0.43,0.00,0.00,0.00
Serbia_722,23.25,26.84,17.84,9.79,19.09,0.00,0.52, 0.00,2.13,0.00,0.27,0.23,0.04
Serbia_723,23.28,30.45,15.46,11.17,16.62,1.84,0.02 ,0.62,0.00,0.00,0.55,0.00,0.00
Serbia_724,24.56,30.52,17.56,8.23,17.28,0.39,0.00, 0.18,1.28,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Serbia_725,18.62,32.58,19.07,10.70,15.96,0.03,1.15 ,0.00,1.66,0.00,0.00,0.10,0.13
Serbia_726,27.66,23.15,17.84,10.22,15.44,3.35,0.03 ,0.25,1.19,0.14,0.73,0.00,0.00
Serbia_727,23.55,29.76,17.18,7.86,18.06,1.17,0.01, 0.43,0.00,1.18,0.79,0.00,0.00
Serbia_728,30.77,24.11,16.04,8.82,14.13,2.51,1.41, 0.03,0.39,1.72,0.08,0.00,0.00
Serbia_729,29.16,25.13,18.65,7.35,13.40,2.48,0.00, 0.51,2.43,0.00,0.46,0.00,0.45



<tbody>
Distance to:
Serb_Serbia_Belgrade


1.10950439
Serb_Herzegovina


1.17362686
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina


1.34190164
Serb_Serbia_south


1.53928555
Serb_Serbia_central


2.14441134
Serb_Croatia_south


2.66538928
Serb_Serbia_west


3.07985389
Serb_Croatia_north


3.69200488
Serb_Montenegro_South


3.89073258
Serb_B&H_Krajina


4.24511484
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper


</tbody>

[Dušan]

Regional averages on plot with European national averages.
So homogeneous. :)

https://i.imgur.com/lZjsaoM.png

[Varda]

Regional averages on plot with European national averages.
So homogeneous. :)

https://i.imgur.com/lZjsaoM.png

Montenegrins/Serbs of Montenegro are some kind of aliens. :)

[Dušan]

Montenegrins/Serbs of Montenegro are some kind of aliens. :)

Our brothers with some extra paleo-Balkan admixure.

[Varda]

Our brothers with some extra paleo-Balkan admixure.

By Serbian spirit they are no1 Serbs.

[CommonSense]

The parts of Montenegro that have a lot of Vlach ancestry are also the ones where the Serbian ethnic identity is the strongest. Cetinje and Nikšić are more Slavic, not just autosomally, but also by Y-DNA, yet most people there have been brainwashed by Milo's docleanist ideology.

[Dick]

By Serbian spirit they are no1 Serbs.

Yes don’t mess with Highland clans. I1-P109 = heroic ydna

https://i.ibb.co/ftzmYt8/EA2-AB674-E23-E-4353-914-E-42-E444-B0-B18-C.jpg

[Varda]

The parts of Montenegro that have a lot of Vlach ancestry are also the ones where the Serbian ethnic identity is the strongest. Cetinje and Nikšić are more Slavic, not just autosomally, but also by Y-DNA, yet most people there have been brainwashed by Milo's docleanist ideology.

In Nikšić milogorstvo declining in the last time.
Cetinje and Kutunska nahija are different. In that part milogorstvo and Duklja ustashian ideology are born and still are very strong.

[Varda]

https://i.imgur.com/DUGyBfv.png

https://srbin.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/c-9-700x386.jpg

[CommonSense]

In Nikšić milogorstvo declining in the last time.
Cetinje and Kutunska nahija are different. In that part milogorstvo and Duklja ustashian ideology are born and still are very strong.

I'd certainly be happy if that were true. I've encountered a lot of online supporters of docleanism and Milo who are from Nikšić. It's my personal anecdotal experience, I know, but it makes sense when you look at the results of the last census.

Cetinje remains the black hole, obviously. Luckily, the population size of the municipality isn't that large.

[Varda]

I know Herzegovina Serbs have a lot of I2 and R1a. but maybe the admixture came through maternal lines?

Y dna of Herzegovinian Serbs (from BiH Herzegovina).

Sample 440

I2a-YP196 (199) - 45.23% (I2-PH908 32.5%)

R1a (68) - 15.45% (Z280 10.9% / M458 4.47%)

E-V13 (55) - 12.5%

I1 (29) - 6.59%

R1b (22) - 5% (western 3.18% / eastern 1.82%)

N-P189.2 (20) - 4.55%

J2a (18) - 4.09%

G2a-L497 (10) - 2.27%

J1 (6) - 1.36%

L-M349 (6) - 1.36%

J2b-M205 (4) - 0.9%

I2-M223 (1) - 0.23%

J2b-M241 (1) - 0.23%

Q (1) - 0.23%


I have seen Y DNA of Old/Montenegrin Herzegovina, but I can't found now. I2a and E-V13 are similar, R1a is lower (about 10%).

[Jana]

https://srbin.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/c-9-700x386.jpg

A što su Hrvati južne Dalmacije, lijepo označeni na karti? Tamo Srba nije bilo ni u promilima. Može li proći dan bez tvojih ispada i bolesne opsjednutosti Hrvatima? Prekini s tim, a ako ne možeš, odi se liječiti.

[Varda]

Yes don’t mess with Highland clans. I1-P109 = heroic ydna

https://i.ibb.co/ftzmYt8/EA2-AB674-E23-E-4353-914-E-42-E444-B0-B18-C.jpg

:thumb001:

Some of Drobnjak heroes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novica_Cerović

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mladen_Milovanović

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_Kursula

[Varda]

Herzegovinian Serb.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=105928&d=1613054818

[Varda]

Serb from Bosnian Krajina.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=106234&d=1614255097

[Leto]

Serb from Bosnian Krajina.

This is not very relevant but one of his top matches (41 cM) is a certain Yuri, I presume Belorussian. Nordo-Slavic as a mofo!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 49.94
2 North_Atlantic 29.27
3 West_Med 8.66
4 East_Med 5.96
5 West_Asian 2.28
6 Oceanian 1.38
7 Siberian 1.28
8 Amerindian 0.6
9 Red_Sea 0.44
10 South_Asian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Belorussian 2.66
2 Estonian_Polish 3.1
3 Russian_Smolensk 4.43
4 Southwest_Russian 5.71
5 Lithuanian 5.83
6 Polish 5.88
7 Estonian 6.49
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 7.08
9 Ukrainian 7.58
10 South_Polish 8.5
11 Kargopol_Russian 8.88
12 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.15
13 Finnish 9.36
14 East_Finnish 9.97
15 Erzya 11.24
16 Southwest_Finnish 11.48
17 Croatian 14.77
18 La_Brana-1 17.38
19 Hungarian 17.82
20 Moldavian 17.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 99.2% Belorussian + 0.8% Papuan @ 2.46
2 99.2% Belorussian + 0.8% NAN_Melanesian @ 2.54
3 99% Belorussian + 1% Sardinian @ 2.59
4 84.8% Belorussian + 15.2% Estonian_Polish @ 2.64
5 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% Mayan @ 2.64
6 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% Karitiana @ 2.64
7 99.4% Belorussian + 0.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.64
8 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% Pima @ 2.65
9 99.4% Belorussian + 0.6% Southwest_French @ 2.65
10 99.5% Belorussian + 0.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.65
11 99.5% Belorussian + 0.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.65
12 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% North_Amerindian @ 2.65
13 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% French_Basque @ 2.65
14 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.65
15 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.65
16 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% North_Italian @ 2.65
17 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% Portuguese @ 2.65
18 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.65
19 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.65
20 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.65


The Serbian sample is quite Northern too. I wonder what Bernie Ecclestone's ex-wife Slavica Radić (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavica_Ecclestone) would score. Her parents were from the North of BiH. Their daughters must be similar to Ayetooye.

[Varda]

This is not very relevant but one of his top matches (41 cM) is a certain Yuri, I presume Belorussian. Nordo-Slavic as a mofo!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 49.94
2 North_Atlantic 29.27
3 West_Med 8.66
4 East_Med 5.96
5 West_Asian 2.28
6 Oceanian 1.38
7 Siberian 1.28
8 Amerindian 0.6
9 Red_Sea 0.44
10 South_Asian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Belorussian 2.66
2 Estonian_Polish 3.1
3 Russian_Smolensk 4.43
4 Southwest_Russian 5.71
5 Lithuanian 5.83
6 Polish 5.88
7 Estonian 6.49
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 7.08
9 Ukrainian 7.58
10 South_Polish 8.5
11 Kargopol_Russian 8.88
12 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.15
13 Finnish 9.36
14 East_Finnish 9.97
15 Erzya 11.24
16 Southwest_Finnish 11.48
17 Croatian 14.77
18 La_Brana-1 17.38
19 Hungarian 17.82
20 Moldavian 17.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 99.2% Belorussian + 0.8% Papuan @ 2.46
2 99.2% Belorussian + 0.8% NAN_Melanesian @ 2.54
3 99% Belorussian + 1% Sardinian @ 2.59
4 84.8% Belorussian + 15.2% Estonian_Polish @ 2.64
5 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% Mayan @ 2.64
6 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% Karitiana @ 2.64
7 99.4% Belorussian + 0.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.64
8 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% Pima @ 2.65
9 99.4% Belorussian + 0.6% Southwest_French @ 2.65
10 99.5% Belorussian + 0.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.65
11 99.5% Belorussian + 0.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.65
12 99.8% Belorussian + 0.2% North_Amerindian @ 2.65
13 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% French_Basque @ 2.65
14 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.65
15 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.65
16 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% North_Italian @ 2.65
17 99.6% Belorussian + 0.4% Portuguese @ 2.65
18 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.65
19 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.65
20 99.7% Belorussian + 0.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.65


The Serbian sample is quite Northern too. I wonder what Bernie Ecclestone's ex-wife Slavica Radić (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavica_Ecclestone) would score. Her parents were from the North of BiH. Their daughters must be similar to Ayetooye.

His result is not far away from Bosnian Krajina Serb average posted by vbnetkhio in the introductory post. Meds are qiute similar, Baltic & NA are little higher than average, West Asian is little lower etc. I have seen Serbian results from that region which deviate significantly more from average, on both sides more southern and more northern.

[Varda]

Serb from Old Herzegovina (western Montenegro), typical surname for Piva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piva_(tribe)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=106241&d=1614344254

[Leto]

A Serb with some notable East Eurasian/Mongoloid percentage

Population
North_Atlantic 28.17 Pct
Baltic 27.14 Pct
West_Med 15.83 Pct
West_Asian 9.31 Pct
East_Med 16.93 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.27 Pct
Siberian 2.35 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Population
Gedrosia 5.95 Pct
Siberian 1.48 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 29.08 Pct
North_European 38.54 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.42 Pct
East_Asian 0.53 Pct
Caucasus 20.99 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Dušan]

A Serb with some notable East Eurasian/Mongoloid percentage

Population
North_Atlantic 28.17 Pct
Baltic 27.14 Pct
West_Med 15.83 Pct
West_Asian 9.31 Pct
East_Med 16.93 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.27 Pct
Siberian 2.35 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -



Distance to: NN
5.20147095 Serb
5.53783351 Montenegrin
5.92484599 Romanian
6.94033140 Moldovan
8.29193584 Croat
8.62790241 Bulgarian
9.38432203 Hungarian
10.51255916 NorthMacedonian
11.47032694 Slovenian
13.36648420 Austrian
14.52776996 Slovak
15.21048980 Albanian
15.99360810 Czech
17.86131294 Greek
18.40293183 German
19.32941541 Italian
21.47317629 French
22.31708986 Ukrainian
22.82261817 Portuguese
23.83209601 Polish
24.99867196 Dutch
25.79494912 Spanish
26.16291268 English
26.25676865 Russian
26.66186978 Swedish
27.23157175 Belorussian
27.94879425 Denmark
28.45677424 Scottish
28.47084298 Icelandic
28.52694340 Norwegian
28.54264879 Ashkenazi
29.56366520 Irish
30.38889435 Finnish
31.20215057 Estonian
32.63583000 Lithuanian
36.21903781 Sephardic_Jewish
37.05486338 Latvian
41.16724183 Turkish



Distance to: NN
3.26499350 14.80% Norwegian + 85.20% Romanian
3.27197141 15.20% Denmark + 84.80% Romanian
3.28113776 84.20% Romanian + 15.80% Swedish
3.32961357 33.40% Greek + 66.60% Hungarian
3.35790337 37.20% Albanian + 62.80% Hungarian
3.38558859 52.80% Czech + 47.20% Greek
3.39998596 14.60% Icelandic + 85.40% Romanian
3.40569745 21.20% German + 78.80% Romanian
3.41708634 67.00% Albanian + 33.00% Finnish
3.42985255 77.00% Bulgarian + 23.00% Swedish
3.45182723 51.40% Albanian + 48.60% Czech
3.46058048 16.20% Dutch + 83.80% Romanian
3.49689391 53.20% Hungarian + 46.80% NorthMacedonian
3.50681592 38.40% Greek + 61.60% Slovenian
3.53599906 27.00% Austrian + 73.00% Romanian
3.56157560 15.40% English + 84.60% Romanian
3.56573889 86.20% Montenegrin + 13.80% Swedish
3.56999406 85.60% Romanian + 14.40% Scottish
3.59751278 38.80% Czech + 61.20% NorthMacedonian
3.60669232 37.80% Austrian + 62.20% Bulgarian

[17571imre]

Serbian father, Hungarian mother

K13


# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.55
2 North_Atlantic 26.81
3 West_Med 16.31
4 West_Asian 11.79
5 East_Med 9.83
6 Oceanian 1.72
7 Amerindian 0.74
8 Siberian 0.17
9 South_Asian 0.07

Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 4.06
2 Croatian 5.41
3 Hungarian 7.45
4 Serbian 7.77
5 Romanian 10.67
6 Austrian 10.68
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.04
8 East_German 11.19
9 South_Polish 11.82
10 Ukrainian 12.4
11 Bulgarian 12.71
12 Polish 15.24
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.99
14 Southwest_Russian 16.06
15 West_German 17.48
16 Russian_Smolensk 17.52
17 Estonian_Polish 18.35
18 South_Dutch 18.95
19 Belorussian 18.99
20 Kargopol_Russian 19.9

Distance to: srb/hu
4.95413371 34.80% Czech + 65.20% Moldovan
4.95622326 52.20% Moldovan + 47.80% Slovenian
4.97633024 62.00% Montenegrin + 38.00% Polish
5.00889609 59.20% Moldovan + 40.80% Slovak
5.03865273 58.20% Croat + 41.80% Csángó-Ceangău
5.04156817 34.20% Slovak + 65.80% Serb_north
5.05216115 15.00% Ukrainian + 85.00% Csángó-Ceangău
5.07884484 48.40% Moldovan + 51.60% Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
5.08667829 28.20% Czech + 71.80% Serb_north
5.10118417 37.20% Polish + 62.80% Romanian
5.10553614 19.40% Polish + 80.60% Serb_north
5.11091089 38.00% Moldovan + 62.00% Hungarian_Alföld
5.11376304 58.00% Serb + 42.00% Slovak
5.11778413 37.00% Bulgarian + 63.00% Slovak
5.12144459 13.40% Polish + 86.60% Csángó-Ceangău
5.13325191 44.20% Romanian + 55.80% Slovak
5.14083840 8.80% Lithuanian + 91.20% Csángó-Ceangău
5.14772441 25.20% Polish + 74.80% Serb
5.15078795 76.40% Croat + 23.60% Moldovan
5.15309260 7.60% Latvian + 92.40% Csángó-Ceangău
5.21270178 55.20% Hungarian + 44.80% Moldovan
5.21583239 55.40% Hungarian_Alföld + 44.60% Serb_north
5.22322544 40.00% Slovenian + 60.00% Serb_north
5.23532594 35.40% Czech + 64.60% Serb
5.23652288 44.00% Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest + 56.00% Serb_north

[Varda]

A Serb with some notable East Eurasian/Mongoloid percentage

Population
North_Atlantic 28.17 Pct
Baltic 27.14 Pct
West_Med 15.83 Pct
West_Asian 9.31 Pct
East_Med 16.93 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.27 Pct
Siberian 2.35 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Population
Gedrosia 5.95 Pct
Siberian 1.48 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 29.08 Pct
North_European 38.54 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.42 Pct
East_Asian 0.53 Pct
Caucasus 20.99 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Another Serb with high mongoloid score.

https://i.postimg.cc/zGbQGM2w/20200504-131344-1.jpg

[Leto]

Another Serb with high mongoloid score.

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/zGbQGM2w/20200504-131344-1.jpg
I think you have shared it before because when I started entering the number it popped up. Oddly enough this Serb has a match (almost 40 cM) with a Russian name and surname but that guy's Mongoloid is actually pretty low for Russia. Maybe a Belarusian or just a rare case. Would like to know where he is from.

Population
North_Atlantic 27.38 Pct
Baltic 49.89 Pct
West_Med 8.24 Pct
West_Asian 4.68 Pct
East_Med 6.11 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 1.03 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.03 Pct
Amerindian 0.97 Pct
Oceanian 0.52 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.14 Pct

[Varda]

I think you have shared it before because when I started entering the number it popped up. Oddly enough this Serb has a match (almost 40 cM) with a Russian name and surname but that guy's Mongoloid is actually pretty low for Russia. Maybe a Belarusian or just a rare case. Would like to know where he is from.

Population
North_Atlantic 27.38 Pct
Baltic 49.89 Pct
West_Med 8.24 Pct
West_Asian 4.68 Pct
East_Med 6.11 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 1.03 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.03 Pct
Amerindian 0.97 Pct
Oceanian 0.52 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.14 Pct

I think i already posted that result on other thread. He is from eastern Bosnia.

[CommonSense]

Bosnian Serb (Bosanski Petrovac (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosanski_Petrovac))

[He's from the same municipality as my paternal grandmother]




Kit H186532

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.94
2 North_Atlantic 27.93
3 West_Med 14.15
4 East_Med 13.26
5 West_Asian 10.37
6 South_Asian 1.83
7 East_Asian 0.75
8 Oceanian 0.4
9 Amerindian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.09
2 Serbian 5.1
3 Hungarian 5.84
4 Croatian 6.29
5 Romanian 8.54
6 Austrian 9.76
7 East_German 10.81
8 Bulgarian 10.93
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.54
10 South_Polish 12.59
11 Ukrainian 13.67
12 West_German 16.08
13 Polish 16.41
14 Southwest_Russian 17.04
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.11
16 South_Dutch 17.7
17 Russian_Smolensk 18.68
18 French 19.05
19 North_German 19.2
20 Estonian_Polish 19.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.9% South_Polish + 33.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.37
2 60.1% Romanian + 39.9% South_Polish @ 2.42
3 71.3% South_Polish + 28.7% South_Italian @ 2.73
4 74.3% Serbian + 25.7% South_Polish @ 2.84
5 80% Serbian + 20% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.87
6 66.8% Romanian + 33.2% Polish @ 2.87
7 68.2% South_Polish + 31.8% Central_Greek @ 2.89
8 76.3% Serbian + 23.7% Ukrainian @ 2.98
9 57.2% Serbian + 42.8% Croatian @ 2.98
10 67.7% Hungarian + 32.3% Bulgarian @ 3.01
11 53.8% Bulgarian + 46.2% South_Polish @ 3.02
12 79.7% Serbian + 20.3% Polish @ 3.05
13 74.4% Romanian + 25.6% Estonian @ 3.05
14 80.5% Serbian + 19.5% Southwest_Russian @ 3.08
15 60.8% Polish + 39.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.09
16 81.9% Serbian + 18.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.09
17 85.6% Serbian + 14.4% Lithuanian @ 3.1
18 59.3% Croatian + 40.7% Romanian @ 3.1
19 61.3% South_Polish + 38.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.11
20 75.1% Serbian + 24.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.12

[Varda]

Bosnian Serb (Bosanski Petrovac (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosanski_Petrovac))

[He's from the same municipality as my paternal grandmother]




Kit H186532

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.94
2 North_Atlantic 27.93
3 West_Med 14.15
4 East_Med 13.26
5 West_Asian 10.37
6 South_Asian 1.83
7 East_Asian 0.75
8 Oceanian 0.4
9 Amerindian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.09
2 Serbian 5.1
3 Hungarian 5.84
4 Croatian 6.29
5 Romanian 8.54
6 Austrian 9.76
7 East_German 10.81
8 Bulgarian 10.93
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.54
10 South_Polish 12.59
11 Ukrainian 13.67
12 West_German 16.08
13 Polish 16.41
14 Southwest_Russian 17.04
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.11
16 South_Dutch 17.7
17 Russian_Smolensk 18.68
18 French 19.05
19 North_German 19.2
20 Estonian_Polish 19.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.9% South_Polish + 33.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.37
2 60.1% Romanian + 39.9% South_Polish @ 2.42
3 71.3% South_Polish + 28.7% South_Italian @ 2.73
4 74.3% Serbian + 25.7% South_Polish @ 2.84
5 80% Serbian + 20% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.87
6 66.8% Romanian + 33.2% Polish @ 2.87
7 68.2% South_Polish + 31.8% Central_Greek @ 2.89
8 76.3% Serbian + 23.7% Ukrainian @ 2.98
9 57.2% Serbian + 42.8% Croatian @ 2.98
10 67.7% Hungarian + 32.3% Bulgarian @ 3.01
11 53.8% Bulgarian + 46.2% South_Polish @ 3.02
12 79.7% Serbian + 20.3% Polish @ 3.05
13 74.4% Romanian + 25.6% Estonian @ 3.05
14 80.5% Serbian + 19.5% Southwest_Russian @ 3.08
15 60.8% Polish + 39.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.09
16 81.9% Serbian + 18.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.09
17 85.6% Serbian + 14.4% Lithuanian @ 3.1
18 59.3% Croatian + 40.7% Romanian @ 3.1
19 61.3% South_Polish + 38.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.11
20 75.1% Serbian + 24.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.12



Do you know his surname?

[CommonSense]

Do you know his surname?

Miščević (village Medeno Polje). I had him in my matchlist since the begnining and his kit too. But he only updated his family tree with the info contain the birth places of his recent ancestors.

[Varda]

Miščević (village Medeno Polje). I had him in my matchlist since the begnining and his kit too. But he only updated his family tree with the info contain the birth places of his recent ancestors.

His y dna result is on public base of Serbian dna project - Miščević, Jovanjdan, Bosanska Krajina, Medeno Polje/Bosanski Petrovac I2-PH908

Here is written for Miščevići from Medeno Polje that they came from Klapavica near Udbina (Lika) in 1879, and in Udbina they arrived from Dalmatia when Ottomans left Lika (in late 17th century) https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/04/22/medeno-polje-selo-kod-bosanskog-petrovca/
Serbs of Podgrmečje, Bihać and Bosanski Petrovac areas are very connected with Lika Serbs.

[CommonSense]

His y dna result is on public base of Serbian dna project - Miščević, Jovanjdan, Bosanska Krajina, Medeno Polje/Bosanski Petrovac I2-PH908

Here is written for Miščevići from Medeno Polje that they came from Klapavica near Udbina (Lika) in 1879, and in Udbina they arrived from Dalmatia when Ottomans left Lika (in late 17th century) https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/04/22/medeno-polje-selo-kod-bosanskog-petrovca/
Serbs of Podgrmečje, Bihać and Bosanski Petrovac areas are very connected with Lika Serbs.

My direct paternal ancestors came from Lika too, though about 50 years before his. The Serbian population of Pounje are relatively late arrivals to that region.

[Varda]

I think there was a first migration wave from Herzegovina which was more Slavic, and then in the following centuries there were additional waves which were less Slavic, because they came from the more isolated mountainous parts of Herzegovina (Drobnjak, Piva) and even from South Montenegro (Kuči, Vasojevići), also Kriči, which were from in between.

So Serbs in the Trebinje, Nevesinje etc, got the most from these following waves, and those in Banija, Northern Bosnia and Mačva the least, so they are actually closer to the original autosomal dna of Herzegovinians.

What is especially interesting is that Serbian population of Bosnian Krajina, Dalmatia, Lika, Kordun and Banija mostly is connected (genetically) with population of Herzegovina, while that is not the case with the genetic which is found in Montenegrin Brda and Zeta tribes (there is no even trace of that genetics among Krajina Serbs)...

^^
Around the middle on the link https://www.poreklo.rs/2021/03/04/genetika-i-srbi-od-karpata-pa-do-jadrana

[Varda]

Serb from Bosnian Krajina (western Bosnia), surname Cvijetić.

https://i.postimg.cc/TYZnBm2Q/20200426-003459-2.jpg

[CommonSense]

Serb from Bosnian Krajina (western Bosnia), surname Cvijetić.

https://i.postimg.cc/TYZnBm2Q/20200426-003459-2.jpg

That guy is from Vareš Majdan and not from Krajina, we already had his kit.

[CommonSense]

I think I think I found a good fit for Serbs and other contemporary Balkanites, but I had to use both ancient and model samples as a referrence, partially because of a lack of samples and partially because of my own ignorance. I don't think there's a better proxy for ancient Anatolians than the Cappadocian Greek average, since the one Anatolian Iron Age sample we have seems to be partially contaminated because it exibits both Siberian and SSA admix.
I'm also hoping some of you can help me choose a better Germanic referrence than just "Swedish". I'm not knowledgable enough about early Germanic samples to choose one myself. Anyhow here are the referrences I used:


I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19, 10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a,25.54,45.76, 13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08,0.58,0.53 ,0.00
I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30.00,9.21,2 8.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Swedish,48.45,30.99,9.81,3.64,2.43,0.84,1.41,0.21, 0.68,0.56,0.40,0.32,0.23
I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp,35.39,15.41 ,20.83,5.13,15.56,2.99,3.06,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.61,0. 00,0.00
Greek_Cappadocian,6.83,3.81,18.16,27.6,36.59,4.92, 0.94,0.03,0.64,0.03,0.4,0,0


As you can see the distances are all surprisingly small:


Target: Serb
Distance: 1.2397% / 1.23970346
54.1 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
19.1 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
16.7 Greek_Cappadocian
9.9 Swedish
0.2 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Croat
Distance: 1.3382% / 1.33819950
55.5 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
21.1 Swedish
12.9 Greek_Cappadocian
10.5 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp

Target: Bosniak
Distance: 1.5313% / 1.53125045
59.9 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
18.5 Greek_Cappadocian
10.6 Swedish
8.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
2.8 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Bulgaria_average
Distance: 0.9040% / 0.90395350
43.7 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
28.2 Greek_Cappadocian
19.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
5.4 Swedish
3.5 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.5700% / 1.56996676
46.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
32.0 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
20.9 Greek_Cappadocian
0.9 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Romania_average
Distance: 0.8768% / 0.87681774
46.5 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
23.5 Greek_Cappadocian
15.5 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
8.0 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp
6.5 Swedish

Target: Macedonian
Distance: 1.4327% / 1.43270258
38.6 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
35.6 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
22.3 Greek_Cappadocian
3.5 Swedish

[JohnnyP]

I think I think I found a good fit for Serbs and other contemporary Balkanites, but I had to use both ancient and model samples as a referrence, partially because of a lack of samples and partially because of my own ignorance. I don't think there's a better proxy for ancient Anatolians than the Cappadocian Greek average, since the one Anatolian Iron Age sample we have seems to be partially contaminated because it exibits both Siberian and SSA admix.
I'm also hoping some of you can help me choose a better Germanic referrence than just "Swedish". I'm not knowledgable enough about early Germanic samples to choose one myself. Anyhow here are the referrences I used:


I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19, 10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a,25.54,45.76, 13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08,0.58,0.53 ,0.00
I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30.00,9.21,2 8.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Swedish,48.45,30.99,9.81,3.64,2.43,0.84,1.41,0.21, 0.68,0.56,0.40,0.32,0.23
I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp,35.39,15.41 ,20.83,5.13,15.56,2.99,3.06,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.61,0. 00,0.00
Greek_Cappadocian,6.83,3.81,18.16,27.6,36.59,4.92, 0.94,0.03,0.64,0.03,0.4,0,0


As you can see the distances are all surprisingly small:


Target: Serb
Distance: 1.2397% / 1.23970346
54.1 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
19.1 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
16.7 Greek_Cappadocian
9.9 Swedish
0.2 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Croat
Distance: 1.3382% / 1.33819950
55.5 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
21.1 Swedish
12.9 Greek_Cappadocian
10.5 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp

Target: Bosniak
Distance: 1.5313% / 1.53125045
59.9 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
18.5 Greek_Cappadocian
10.6 Swedish
8.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
2.8 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Bulgaria_average
Distance: 0.9040% / 0.90395350
43.7 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
28.2 Greek_Cappadocian
19.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
5.4 Swedish
3.5 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.5700% / 1.56996676
46.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
32.0 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
20.9 Greek_Cappadocian
0.9 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp

Target: Romania_average
Distance: 0.8768% / 0.87681774
46.5 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
23.5 Greek_Cappadocian
15.5 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
8.0 I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp
6.5 Swedish

Target: Macedonian
Distance: 1.4327% / 1.43270258
38.6 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
35.6 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
22.3 Greek_Cappadocian
3.5 Swedish

Greece_MBA_Log04 from Middle Bronze Age is closest to Macedonian Average, I think you need Middle/Late Bronze Age samples for some ethnicities to be modeled?
Also I see always funny to modeling some ethnicity with samples with period difference of 800-1000 years? And Sungir6 have at least 30% Paleo-Balkanic admix.
Top3 ancient closest.

Distance to: Bulgaria_average
9.20534084 STR310_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1430_ybp
9.22154542 Greece_MBA_Log04
10.16290805 DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp

Distance to: Albanian
5.55896573 R970_Lazio_Rome_Renaissance_Italy
7.03147211 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
7.04935458 scy192_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG

Distance to: Serb
9.12531095 DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp
9.94155923 MJ37_Chernyakhov_2430386_AD_
10.26049219 AED513_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1528_ybp

Distance to: Macedonian
8.03522868 Greece_MBA_Log04
8.29669211 SZ1.SG_longobard_hungary
8.48892219 SZ1_Hungary_BA.SG_3950_ybp


Better distance for all with DA195 ( I think is main IronAge sample for Serbs ) and Log2 / Log4 ;

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 0.8720% / 0.87202288
41.8 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
27.0 Greek_Cappadocian
13.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
12.6 Greece_MBA_Log02
5.4 Swedish


Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.4496% / 1.44958882
32.6 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
28.0 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
19.8 Greek_Cappadocian
19.6 Greece_MBA_Log02

Target: Macedonian
Distance: 1.2430% / 1.24304131
33.8 Greece_MBA_Log02
32.4 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
20.1 Greek_Cappadocian
13.7 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp


Target: Serb
Distance: 0.9697% / 0.96968359
44.8 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
29.3 DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp
14.5 Greek_Cappadocian
8.1 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
2.6 Swedish
0.7 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_

[Jana]

^^^Sunghir has 0% Paleo Balkan admix, idk from where you got that weird idea. It was found east of Moscow and is pretty pure Slavic sample.

Decent model Commonsense, except that Norwegians would be better Germanic proxy than Swedes. Medieval Germanic samples consistently come close to them.

[Jana]

Here is model I'm currently using (ancient samples selected by Vbnethkio plus modern Germanic averages from southern Scandinavia).
I find his selection extraordinary good because he dropped obviously mixed early Slavic samples from Czech Republic for example.


Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65,9.85,35.9 1,0,25.77,1.7,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ybp,24.99 ,12.62,32.15,0,26.93,2.15,0,0,0.01,0.88,0,0.26,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13,27.73,1 0.03,16.07,0.6,0,1.05,0,0.21,0,0,0.64
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450_ybp,22.0 5,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0,0,0,0,0.25,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp,30.55,21.81,20. 01,8.06,12.49,5.56,0,0,0,0.17,1.35,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30,9. 21,28.33,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15,16.12,30. 59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0,0.35,0,0,1.12,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62 ,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0,0,0.38,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.02,24.4 1,7.67,19.6,1.39,0,0,0,1.23,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R132_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.49,0,24.2 8,1.26,35.08,12.33,0,1.72,0.41,0,0.6,8.28,2.57
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R80_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,15.29,0.52,23 .55,5.43,37.6,11.68,0,0.2,0,0,0.26,4.42,1.06
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R42_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,0.53,0,15.4,2 0.48,43.2,14.76,1.31,1.03,0,0,0,3.29,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1547_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.97,0,17.5 4,19.13,43.1,13.27,2.48,0,0,0,0,2.51,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.93,0,17.4 5,22.44,37.8,13.78,2.1,0.71,0,0.02,0.31,2.45,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R41_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.7,0,21.47,1 7.49,39.58,7.59,0.39,1.94,0,0.76,0.14,1.91,0.03
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R67_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.11,0.88,12. 12,32.7,36.78,9.27,3.73,0.37,0,0.32,0.39,1.9,0.44
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R45_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.66,2.53,24 .25,10.61,36.68,8.16,0,1.14,0,0,1.4,1.69,0.89
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19. 34,21.39,41.91,10.3,0,0,0,0.19,0,1.38,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0,22.68, 21.74,35.29,9.37,0,0.37,0,0.21,0.47,1.25,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19 .72,17.3,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0,1.21,0. 41
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R68_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.31,0,13.79, 30.08,39.44,10.13,3.04,0,0,0,0,1.07,0.14
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,22.71,9.87, 15.99,12.66,27.94,6.69,0.86,1.18,0,0,1.29,0.81,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.3,16.7 7,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0,0,0.82,0,0.77,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.98,5.83,21 .98,16.85,28.76,6.43,0,0,0.29,0.72,0.51,0.64,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1543_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.86,0.47, 16.98,14.67,40.12,7.56,1.33,1.13,0,0.31,0,0.57,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.25,8.08,21 .47,16.31,31.17,4.53,0,0,0,0.2,1.31,0.53,0.15
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.94,4.56,21 .96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0,0,0,0.26,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R125_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,15.24,4 .84,25.65,22.02,27.75,3.78,0,0,0,0,0.54,0.18,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1548_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.7,7.83,1 7.2,21.18,31.85,6.18,0.1,0,1.17,0,0.7,0.07,0.01
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.48,7.33,22.76 ,15.83,28.17,4.29,2.11,0,0,0.18,0.49,0,1.37
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R50_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.8,5.92,19. 69,18.96,31.66,8.21,1.77,0.13,0,0,0,0,0.87
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,6.85,0, 21.95,22.6,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75,0,0,0.22,0,0.71
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,18.55,6.06,2 2.93,13.3,31.22,5.99,0,1.15,0,0.4,0,0,0.4
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R38_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.92,0,18.71, 28.11,41.51,8.68,0,0,0,0.45,0.34,0,0.28
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R40_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.72,0,23,19 .52,36.2,5.66,0,0.47,0.15,0,0,0,0.27
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,7.27,2 6.59,13.06,25.7,1.65,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R113_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,4.01,2 6.05,11.36,28.27,3.92,0,0,0,0.46,0.2,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R114_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.19,6.78,1 8.04,19.02,29.56,7.35,0.58,0.77,0,0.7,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R123_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,12.03,4 .13,19.45,20.54,37.07,3.99,0,0.97,0,0,1.83,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,2.63,8. 5,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0,0,0,0.84,0.55,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.53,4.64, 21.39,18.62,31.87,3.82,1.51,0,0.43,0.3,0.89,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1545_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.35,3.4,2 2.3,23.93,31.78,7.44,0.06,0,0,0,0.73,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.31,0,12.6 ,36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R39_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,9.38,2.57,24. 97,19.78,34.82,5.66,0,1.74,0.29,0.78,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R43_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.19,0,22.2, 21.83,39.45,3.15,0.45,0,0,0.08,0.65,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R44_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.45,0,23.48 ,18.04,38.86,5.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R51_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,20.47,1.28,20 .11,15.05,34.89,5.56,0,0.17,0,0.59,1.88,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R66_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,7.81,1.07,23. 57,24.26,37.48,4.96,0,0,0,0,0.85,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R69_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.48,4.41,24 .55,22.98,33.7,0.54,0,0.59,0,0.5,0.25,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20. 33,24.54,44.64,3.4,0,0,0,0,0.94,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0,22.92 ,19.04,41.2,5.12,0,0,0.57,0,0.91,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22. 82,22.14,43.72,2.03,0,0.1,0,0.27,0.39,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R81_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.54,2.43,22 .21,17.14,39.17,4.79,1.98,0,0,0,0.74,0,0
Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman:R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.9,4.35,25.43, 19.62,29.98,1.61,0,0,0,0.28,0.83,0,0
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_135 6_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56 ,0.94,0,0.46,0
Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,4 5.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0.00,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64 ,0.42,0.00
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11 .70,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0.00,1.18,0.56,0.79,0.00,1 .29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43. 78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.82,0.98,0 .73,0.87
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26, 8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.5 3,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63, 3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56, 6.08,4.86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.3 7,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14. 97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11 .7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43. 78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0. 87
Slavic:KRA011_S-Anhalt_1100_AD,29.56,50.68,8.38,2.39,2.54,1.03,1.3 ,0.14,0,1.4,1.27,1.1,0.21
Slavic:KRA001_S-Anhalt_1100_AD,25.47,47.56,12.36,7.54,1.32,0,2.43, 0.52,0.01,1.2,0.71,0.61,0.27
Slavic:VK494_Poland_Sandomierz,32.56,47.37,12.86,2 .56,0,0,0.82,2.53,0.31,0.22,0,0.77,0
Slavic:VK466_Russia_Gnezdovo,25.85,43.15,9.22,12.8 2,0,0,2.34,0.15,0,2.09,1.69,0,2.69
Slavic:VK340_Denmark_Jutland,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02 ,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Germanic:Denmark,50.61,28.70,10.19,5.00,2.12,0.52, 0.99,0.19,0.42,0.59,0.23,0.12,0.17
Germanic:Norway_South_Central,50.83,28.97,9.61,4.7 8,1.91,0.62,0.94,0.11,0.63,0.68,0.56,0.13,0.23
Germanic:Norwegian,51.14,28.61,9.91,5.60,1.73,0.43 ,0.42,0.36,0.64,0.91,0.15,0.01,0.10
Germanic:Sweden_Götaland,50.53,29.29,9.86,4.67,1.8 8,0.62,0.93,0.21,0.69,0.55,0.41,0.18,0.2

Fit will be outstanding for almost everyone due to sheer volume of samples. Romanians and Moldovans would probably require some extra Turkic samples though.

[CommonSense]

^^^Sunghir has 0% Paleo Balkan admix, idk from where you got that weird idea. It was found east of Moscow and is pretty pure Slavic sample.

Decent model Commonsense, except that Norwegians would be better Germanic proxy than Swedes. Medieval Germanic samples consistently come close to them.

I included Swedish because Slavs and this part of the world in general had more contact with Eastern Germanics who are accroding to tradition from Gotland. So I thought they'd have been more like Swedes than Norwegians. And I agree about the Sungir sample. It's well with the modern East Slavic range:

Target: Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
Distance: 2.4466% / 2.44663205 | R2P
91.2 Belarusian_Minsk
8.8 Italian_Sardinia

Unlike the two "Avar" samples, one of which does seem to have some kind of southern admix, while the other one has Celto-Germanic. The early Czech sample is likewise admixed and akin to modern Czechs, so that one should also be avoided when making population models such as this one.

[JohnnyP]

^^^Sunghir has 0% Paleo Balkan admix, idk from where you got that weird idea. It was found east of Moscow and is pretty pure Slavic sample.

Decent model Commonsense, except that Norwegians would be better Germanic proxy than Swedes. Medieval Germanic samples consistently come close to them.

Yeah if we talk about Sunghir6 it have Balkanic admix, in fact also Czech early slav sample have Balkanic admix.

[CommonSense]

Greece_MBA_Log04 from Middle Bronze Age is closest to Macedonian Average, I think you need Middle/Late Bronze Age samples for some ethnicities to be modeled?
Also I see always funny to modeling some ethnicity with samples with period difference of 800-1000 years? And Sungir6 have at least 30% Paleo-Balkanic admix.
Top3 ancient closest.


That Scythian sample is redundant and sensless because it represents a mix of "real" Scythians and some kind of a Bell Beaker-like population. It plots between Balkan Slavs and North Italians. Otherwise your model just seems to change the breakdown of the Paleo-Balkan ancestry and not it's actual amount.

[Jana]

Yeah if we talk about Sunghir6 it have Balkanic admix, in fact also Czech early slav sample have Balkanic admix.

It doesn't. Early Czech Slav has local Celtic substratum ,(which is SW shifted compared to proto Slavs), both samples have nothing to do with Balkans.

[CommonSense]

Decided to take up Feiichy's idea for myself. I'd say the sampling here is fair considering the absurdely low distances to all of the balkan averages, but if you have any suggestions, feel free to add.


Paleo_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15 ,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.0 2,24.41,7.67,19.60,1.39,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.23,0.00,0 .00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13.0 0,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.60,0.00,1.05,0.00,0.21,0.00, 0.00,0.64
Paleo_Balkan:MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_,17.31,16.47,24 .79,14.47,21.96,1.38,0.00,0.00,1.28,1.76,0.58,0.00 ,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_,18.69,1.27 ,31.47,12.51,27.61,2.03,0.00,0.87,0.24,0.00,0.87,3 .47,0.98
Paleo_Balkan:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp,8.75, 3.24,32.05,13.71,37.05,3.81,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.80,0. 58,0.00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48 ,30.00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0. 00,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:Canaanite_,1.63,0.00,14.65,1 5.10,51.26,17.37,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
Eastern_Mediterranean:Greek_Cappadocian,6.83,3.81, 18.16,27.6,36.59,4.92,0.94,0.03,0.64,0.03,0.4,0,0
Eastern_Mediterranean:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperi al,8.94,4.56,21.96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0.00 ,0.00,0.00,0.26,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_I mperial,6.85,0.00,21.95,22.60,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75 ,0.00,0.00,0.22,0.00,0.71
Eastern_Mediterranean:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_I mperial,2.63,8.50,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0.00,0.00 ,0.00,0.84,0.55,0.00,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imper ial,2.93,0.00,17.45,22.44,37.80,13.78,2.10,0.71,0. 00,0.02,0.31,2.45,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imper ial,5.31,0.00,12.60,36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0.0 0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_,25. 54,45.76,13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08, 0.58,0.53,0.00
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_,3 0.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1.56,0.8 9,0.00,0.42,0.00
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26, 8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.5 3,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63, 3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14. 97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11 .7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43. 78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0. 87
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.3 7,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9. 89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Germanic:ADA119_Slovakia_Poprad_1600_R_U106_U4b3_3 75_AD_2_,53.37,27.59,18.52,0.33,0.19,0.00,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Germanic:RISE174_Sweden_IA.SG_1431_ybp,48.47,30.87 ,7.80,5.77,0.58,0.36,2.19,0.00,1.18,1.06,0.56,0.17 ,1.00
Germanic:Alh1_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1500_ybp,5 0.39,26.23,13.00,5.30,0.00,1.40,0.00,1.70,0.00,1.1 1,0.49,0.38,0.00
Germanic:Alh10_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1489_ybp, 50.82,27.96,8.13,4.15,4.48,1.91,0.67,0.31,0.00,1.2 9,0.29,0.00,0.00
Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.25,26. 28,10.75,7.04,5.01,0.00,1.09,0.00,0.00,0.90,1.69,0 .00,0.00
Germanic:SZ15_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,49.81, 25.15,10.68,7.88,0.66,1.04,2.67,1.49,0.62,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00
Turkic:ADA101_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1716_ybp,1 5.48,20.81,0.00,25.74,0.00,0.00,10.64,6.48,15.16,4 .45,0.00,0.00,1.24
Turkic:ADA104_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1600_ybp,1 6.18,18.94,0.00,18.27,0.00,0.00,8.84,7.48,25.18,4. 61,0.15,0.35,0.00
Turkic:ADA105_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_son.DA104. SG_1783_ybp,15.25,20.57,0.86,20.19,0.00,0.00,6.40, 8.60,25.03,3.10,0.00,0.00,0.00
Turkic:ADA385_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1467_ybp,1 5.92,19.74,0.00,17.23,0.00,0.00,8.70,8.58,24.42,4. 84,0.00,0.00,0.56
Turkic:ADA65_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1511_ybp,23 .89,17.03,0.00,14.40,0.00,0.00,5.83,10.23,21.70,5. 38,0.04,0.00,1.49
Turkic:ADA66_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1447_ybp,14 .78,23.68,0.00,13.28,0.00,0.00,9.32,7.37,24.16,3.4 6,2.08,0.00,1.86
Turkic:ADA69_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1516_ybp,17 .53,18.31,0.00,24.71,1.09,0.00,9.68,5.25,20.35,2.8 9,0.20,0.00,0.00



Target: Slovenian
Distance: 0.3803% / 0.38028983
56.7 Slavic
25.3 Germanic
10.8 Paleo_Balkan
7.2 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Croat
Distance: 0.2564% / 0.25638615
59.3 Slavic
16.1 Germanic
15.6 Paleo_Balkan
9.0 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Bosniak
Distance: 0.2649% / 0.26486108
62.7 Slavic
19.0 Paleo_Balkan
12.0 Eastern_Mediterranean
6.3 Germanic

Target: Serb
Distance: 0.1302% / 0.13022115
55.2 Slavic
31.3 Paleo_Balkan
7.9 Eastern_Mediterranean
5.6 Germanic

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 0.3155% / 0.31548324
43.0 Slavic
30.9 Paleo_Balkan
17.1 Eastern_Mediterranean
9.0 Germanic

Target: Macedonian
Distance: 0.4005% / 0.40054855
46.7 Paleo_Balkan
36.4 Slavic
12.3 Eastern_Mediterranean
4.6 Germanic

Target: Albanian
Distance: 0.5368% / 0.53677785
58.2 Paleo_Balkan
27.6 Slavic
11.5 Eastern_Mediterranean
2.7 Germanic

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 0.0814% / 0.08138267
43.3 Slavic
29.1 Paleo_Balkan
21.6 Eastern_Mediterranean
6.0 Germanic

Target: Romanian
Distance: 0.0797% / 0.07967599
47.1 Slavic
31.6 Paleo_Balkan
14.0 Eastern_Mediterranean
5.5 Germanic
1.8 Turkic

Target: Moldavian
Distance: 0.0839% / 0.08386034
61.5 Slavic
20.0 Paleo_Balkan
12.3 Eastern_Mediterranean
4.1 Germanic
2.1 Turkic

[CommonSense]

...

[Dušan]

I think I think I found a good fit for Serbs and other contemporary Balkanites, but I had to use both ancient and model samples as a referrence, partially because of a lack of samples and partially because of my own ignorance. I don't think there's a better proxy for ancient Anatolians than the Cappadocian Greek average, since the one Anatolian Iron Age sample we have seems to be partially contaminated because it exibits both Siberian and SSA admix.
I'm also hoping some of you can help me choose a better Germanic referrence than just "Swedish". I'm not knowledgable enough about early Germanic samples to choose one myself. Anyhow here are the referrences I used:


I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19, 10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a,25.54,45.76, 13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08,0.58,0.53 ,0.00
I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30.00,9.21,2 8.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Swedish,48.45,30.99,9.81,3.64,2.43,0.84,1.41,0.21, 0.68,0.56,0.40,0.32,0.23
I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp,35.39,15.41 ,20.83,5.13,15.56,2.99,3.06,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.61,0. 00,0.00
Greek_Cappadocian,6.83,3.81,18.16,27.6,36.59,4.92, 0.94,0.03,0.64,0.03,0.4,0,0





Target: Dušan
Distance: 2.6691% / 2.66910624
70.8 Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a
18.2 I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
11.0 Greek_Cappadocian


I think Thracian from my signature is more accurate for paleo-Balkan autosomal heritage.

[Dušan]

Paleo_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15 ,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.0 2,24.41,7.67,19.60,1.39,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.23,0.00,0 .00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13.0 0,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.60,0.00,1.05,0.00,0.21,0.00, 0.00,0.64
Paleo_Balkan:MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_,17.31,16.47,24 .79,14.47,21.96,1.38,0.00,0.00,1.28,1.76,0.58,0.00 ,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_,18.69,1.27 ,31.47,12.51,27.61,2.03,0.00,0.87,0.24,0.00,0.87,3 .47,0.98
Paleo_Balkan:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp,8.75, 3.24,32.05,13.71,37.05,3.81,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.80,0. 58,0.00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48 ,30.00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0. 00,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:Canaanite_,1.63,0.00,14.65,1 5.10,51.26,17.37,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
Eastern_Mediterranean:Greek_Cappadocian,6.83,3.81, 18.16,27.6,36.59,4.92,0.94,0.03,0.64,0.03,0.4,0,0
Eastern_Mediterranean:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperi al,8.94,4.56,21.96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0.00 ,0.00,0.00,0.26,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_I mperial,6.85,0.00,21.95,22.60,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75 ,0.00,0.00,0.22,0.00,0.71
Eastern_Mediterranean:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_I mperial,2.63,8.50,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0.00,0.00 ,0.00,0.84,0.55,0.00,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imper ial,2.93,0.00,17.45,22.44,37.80,13.78,2.10,0.71,0. 00,0.02,0.31,2.45,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imper ial,5.31,0.00,12.60,36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0.0 0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_,25. 54,45.76,13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08, 0.58,0.53,0.00
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_,3 0.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1.56,0.8 9,0.00,0.42,0.00
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26, 8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.5 3,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63, 3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14. 97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11 .7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43. 78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0. 87
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.3 7,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9. 89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Germanic:ADA119_Slovakia_Poprad_1600_R_U106_U4b3_3 75_AD_2_,53.37,27.59,18.52,0.33,0.19,0.00,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Germanic:RISE174_Sweden_IA.SG_1431_ybp,48.47,30.87 ,7.80,5.77,0.58,0.36,2.19,0.00,1.18,1.06,0.56,0.17 ,1.00
Germanic:Alh1_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1500_ybp,5 0.39,26.23,13.00,5.30,0.00,1.40,0.00,1.70,0.00,1.1 1,0.49,0.38,0.00
Germanic:Alh10_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1489_ybp, 50.82,27.96,8.13,4.15,4.48,1.91,0.67,0.31,0.00,1.2 9,0.29,0.00,0.00
Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.25,26. 28,10.75,7.04,5.01,0.00,1.09,0.00,0.00,0.90,1.69,0 .00,0.00
Germanic:SZ15_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,49.81, 25.15,10.68,7.88,0.66,1.04,2.67,1.49,0.62,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00
Turkic:ADA101_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1716_ybp,1 5.48,20.81,0.00,25.74,0.00,0.00,10.64,6.48,15.16,4 .45,0.00,0.00,1.24
Turkic:ADA104_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1600_ybp,1 6.18,18.94,0.00,18.27,0.00,0.00,8.84,7.48,25.18,4. 61,0.15,0.35,0.00
Turkic:ADA105_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_son.DA104. SG_1783_ybp,15.25,20.57,0.86,20.19,0.00,0.00,6.40, 8.60,25.03,3.10,0.00,0.00,0.00
Turkic:ADA385_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1467_ybp,1 5.92,19.74,0.00,17.23,0.00,0.00,8.70,8.58,24.42,4. 84,0.00,0.00,0.56
Turkic:ADA65_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1511_ybp,23 .89,17.03,0.00,14.40,0.00,0.00,5.83,10.23,21.70,5. 38,0.04,0.00,1.49
Turkic:ADA66_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1447_ybp,14 .78,23.68,0.00,13.28,0.00,0.00,9.32,7.37,24.16,3.4 6,2.08,0.00,1.86
Turkic:ADA69_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1516_ybp,17 .53,18.31,0.00,24.71,1.09,0.00,9.68,5.25,20.35,2.8 9,0.20,0.00,0.00


Nice distance



Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.4077% / 1.40772730
64.4 Slavic
35.6 Paleo_Balkan



Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.4077% / 1.40772730
36.6 Slavic/Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
20.6 Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
17.5 Slavic/Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
10.3 Slavic/Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454
8.4 Paleo_Balkan/I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp
6.6 Paleo_Balkan/I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp



Distance to: Dušan
1.79944108 41.40% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 58.60% Slavic/Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
2.30020233 33.60% Paleo_Balkan/I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp + 66.40% Slavic/Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212
2.38761442 31.80% Paleo_Balkan/I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp + 68.20% Slavic/AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_
2.56403743 42.20% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 57.80% Slavic/Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454
2.89198780 28.60% Paleo_Balkan/I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_ + 71.40% Slavic/Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
2.91615950 24.60% Paleo_Balkan/I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_ + 75.40% Slavic/Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
3.00537627 26.00% Paleo_Balkan/I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp + 74.00% Slavic/Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
3.08740914 25.60% Paleo_Balkan/I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp + 74.40% Slavic/Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
3.15846542 48.00% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 52.00% Slavic/AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_
3.31129070 50.20% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 49.80% Slavic/Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212

[Dušan]

Yeah if we talk about Sunghir6 it have Balkanic admix, in fact also Czech early slav sample have Balkanic admix.

Sungir6 is found on outskirts of Russian city of Vladimir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir,_Russia), some 200 km east of Moscow.

Off course it doesnt have paleo-Balkan admixture. Are you crazy?

[vbnetkhio]

I think I think I found a good fit for Serbs and other contemporary Balkanites, but I had to use both ancient and model samples as a referrence, partially because of a lack of samples and partially because of my own ignorance. I don't think there's a better proxy for ancient Anatolians than the Cappadocian Greek average, since the one Anatolian Iron Age sample we have seems to be partially contaminated because it exibits both Siberian and SSA admix.
I'm also hoping some of you can help me choose a better Germanic referrence than just "Swedish". I'm not knowledgable enough about early Germanic samples to choose one myself. Anyhow here are the referrences I used:


I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19, 10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2aI2a,25.54,45.76, 13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08,0.58,0.53 ,0.00
I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30.00,9.21,2 8.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Swedish,48.45,30.99,9.81,3.64,2.43,0.84,1.41,0.21, 0.68,0.56,0.40,0.32,0.23
I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp,35.39,15.41 ,20.83,5.13,15.56,2.99,3.06,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.61,0. 00,0.00
Greek_Cappadocian,6.83,3.81,18.16,27.6,36.59,4.92, 0.94,0.03,0.64,0.03,0.4,0,0


Danes or Norwegians are better as Stearsolina said, because modern Swedes have Finnic and Balto Slavic influence.

I tried to quickly filter out all the purely Germanic samples from G25:



Germanic:DEU_MA_ACD_STR_355,0.124067,0.137096,0.06 4488,0.054264,0.048009,0.021753,0.001175,0.002077, 0.002659,0.008018,-0.004547,0.012289,0.000446,-0.012248,0.022937,0.020949,0.007823,0.001774,0.000 754,0.011506,0.001747,0.005812,0.006039,0.01205,0. 004191
Germanic:DEU_MA_AED_106,0.125205,0.133034,0.064865 ,0.067184,0.03416,0.020917,0.00517,0.008769,0.0028 63,-0.009476,-0.006171,0.002548,-0.012042,-0.006193,0.019544,0.008486,0.015255,-0.006968,-0.015964,0.005503,-0.003244,0.012736,-0.017378,0.005422,-0.000239
Germanic:DEU_MA_AED_249,0.125205,0.126941,0.071653 ,0.04845,0.043085,0.023706,0.020211,0.001385,0.003 477,-0.01057,-0.011854,-0.002398,-0.009663,0.003303,0.019679,-0.002784,-0.026598,-0.001774,0.004148,0.00988,0.01697,-0.006554,0.000123,0.007953,0.010658
Germanic:DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine_NIEcap12c,0.117 238,0.133034,0.069013,0.059109,0.030467,0.013666,0 .008695,0.013615,-0.002659,0.001276,-0.003897,0.006744,-0.015015,-0.003165,0.018594,0.005834,-0.002608,0.006841,0.005531,-0.003377,0.006738,0.006801,-0.004437,0.014942,0.006706
Germanic:DEU_MA_ALH_1,0.118376,0.129988,0.06939,0. 051034,0.048009,0.023148,0.014101,-0.000692,0.006136,-0.001822,-0.002436,0.003447,-0.008474,-0.012248,0.012486,0.008088,-0.005215,0.004307,0.00817,0.009755,0.009858,0.0046 99,0.001725,0.002771,-0.002395
Germanic:DEU_MA_ALH_10,0.12862,0.132019,0.065242,0 .047481,0.045239,0.023985,0.006345,-0.002308,0.002863,0.004009,0.001461,0.003447,-0.011298,0.004679,0.019137,-0.002254,-0.02386,0.010135,0.005279,-0.009254,0.003868,0.012736,-0.003328,0.012291,-0.000239
Germanic:DEU_MA_NW_255,0.118376,0.140143,0.060716, 0.049742,0.041546,0.006693,0.020681,0.015692,-0.004909,-0.000364,-0.004384,0.007793,-0.012339,-0.003441,0.026194,-0.006099,-0.025164,0.0019,0.014581,0.003252,0.004617,-0.003833,0.008874,0.023136,-0.001796
Germanic:DEU_MA_STR_316,0.125205,0.12491,0.071653, 0.057494,0.040315,0.03012,0.019976,-0.004154,0.000205,0,-0.010718,0.003297,-0.012487,-0.004129,0.028501,-0.008751,-0.019036,0.007095,0.006285,0.002876,-0.001373,0.00915,0.000493,0.01928,-0.00455
Germanic:DEU_MA_STR_486,0.120652,0.137096,0.04714, 0.055233,0.042162,0.020638,0.008695,0.011999,0.010 431,-0.005467,-0.002923,-0.006894,-0.017245,0.005367,0.007193,-0.002121,-0.028293,-0.002534,0.010559,0.008379,0.007237,0.001484,-0.01972,0.011568,-0.001078
Germanic:DNK_BA_RISE276,0.126344,0.135065,0.05506, 0.05168,0.035391,0.030957,0.024206,-0.012692,-0.01493,0.002551,-0.006658,0.015137,-0.001933,-0.008257,0.013436,-0.004906,0.00665,0.005828,0.018729,0.001251,0.0051 16,0.001113,0.00456,0.007591,-0.022992
Germanic:DNK_BA_RISE47,0.105855,0.139128,0.071653, 0.053295,0.024004,0.029284,-0.00188,0.002308,0.000409,-0.010205,0.000812,0.002698,-0.007433,-0.023946,0.014251,0.013259,0.00691,0.013302,0.0116 9,0.008004,0.030696,-0.018672,-0.002958,-0.002289,0.000239
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ11,0.134311,0.137096,0.05 8454,0.047481,0.038776,0.02008,0.00752,0.002308,-0.004704,-0.008747,-0.005196,0.006894,-0.010406,-0.006744,0.015201,0.012729,0.004824,0.000253,0.000 503,0.004502,0.000125,0.004328,-0.001109,0.011688,-0.005508
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ12,0.135449,0.135065,0.06 0339,0.048127,0.047393,0.015339,0.0047,0.005307,-0.001227,-0.002916,-0.007632,0.002398,0.000149,-0.006468,0.019272,0.002387,-0.000522,-0.003801,0.003017,0.007754,0.010606,0.005564,-0.00456,-0.001928,-0.001437
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ13,0.133173,0.133034,0.06 5996,0.059109,0.041238,0.017012,0.00423,0.001154,-0.005522,-0.004191,-0.007632,0.007493,-0.008622,-0.004542,0.016422,0.006232,0.001043,-0.002407,0.007165,0.002876,0.015473,0.014715,0.003 328,0.01458,0.000359
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ16,0.133173,0.128972,0.06 8259,0.062662,0.035699,0.019522,0.002585,0.009923, 0.001432,-0.005832,0.001137,0.008992,-0.005946,-0.006881,0.024158,0.006232,-0.008084,-0.000253,-0.003017,0.009004,0.003244,0.005193,0.001109,0.014 219,0.003353
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ2,0.122929,0.139128,0.070 144,0.067184,0.038469,0.018128,0.00611,0.006461,-0.000205,-0.009294,-0.000974,-0.00015,-0.008474,-0.00055,0.017372,-0.006629,-0.022296,0.005954,0.005908,-0.004627,0.015597,0.000742,0.007395,0.008555,0.002 634
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ22,0.130897,0.131003,0.05 7699,0.06137,0.044008,0.011713,0.00517,0.002538,-0.000409,0.000547,-0.012991,0.005845,-0.004906,-0.010735,0.010586,0.012463,0.000782,-0.003801,0.002891,0.012381,0.009109,0.004328,-0.004314,0.005663,0.003952
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ4,0.134311,0.133034,0.064 488,0.056525,0.035699,0.021196,0.011751,0.007154,-0.001841,0.004191,-0.005846,0.001649,-0.013082,-0.001376,0.026465,-0.002519,-0.024121,0.004687,0.00176,-0.004002,0.006988,0.007543,0.004067,0.013737,0.001 796
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ7,0.135449,0.135065,0.066 373,0.062016,0.035083,0.01255,0.00611,0.005307,0.0 03272,0,-0.011205,0.0003,-0.007433,-0.010322,0.018729,0.002784,-0.005476,0.000127,0.001885,0.002376,0.009234,0.007 419,0.001602,0.015785,-0.001197
Germanic:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ9,0.138864,0.125926,0.069 013,0.066861,0.036622,0.03012,0.00188,0.011999,0.0 11658,-0.000547,-0.011692,0.003597,-0.008176,-0.003716,0.029994,-0.001193,-0.00665,0.001394,0.00088,0.007629,0.011355,0.00581 2,-0.003451,0.014942,-0.001796
Germanic:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL145,0.132035,0.139128,0 .060339,0.067507,0.041854,0.018686,0.0094,0.01223, 0.001023,-0.009841,0.000812,0.006594,-0.00446,-0.001239,0.02918,-0.006364,-0.029336,0.004561,0.010056,0.003752,0.006489,0.010 263,-0.002465,0.017231,0.002634
Germanic:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL146,0.129758,0.131003,0 .063356,0.05491,0.040931,0.015897,0.003525,0.01038 4,0.001023,-0.006925,-0.002761,0.004346,-0.017988,-0.007982,0.026873,0.001193,-0.0103,0.003294,0.010056,0.011255,0.006239,0.00432 8,0.003944,0.017954,0.000838
Germanic:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL151,0.134311,0.129988,0 .065242,0.062016,0.042777,0.019522,0.00846,0.01430 7,-0.002045,-0.005467,-0.004384,-0.001499,-0.010704,-0.010046,0.035694,-0.007292,-0.023469,0.006841,0.005656,0.008879,0.008235,0.008 903,0.002465,0.016629,-0.001796
Germanic:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL83,0.132035,0.133034,0. 065242,0.036499,0.0437,0.025379,0.00846,0.003461,0 .005931,0.000182,-0.01023,0.002548,-0.016799,-0.000413,0.027008,0.001856,-0.007693,0.009502,0.006034,0.005628,0.008859,0.004 204,-0.002342,0.014098,-0.002874
Germanic:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL84,0.133173,0.136081,0. 07203,0.042636,0.049548,0.019801,0.005875,0.006923 ,0.010431,0,-0.008444,0.005545,-0.011447,-0.011973,0.023887,0.007823,-0.005476,0.003801,0.005782,0.004502,0.005865,0.002 226,-0.008134,0.013978,0.000838
Germanic:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL92,0.135449,0.132019,0. 070144,0.04845,0.037238,0.013945,0.00799,0.020307, 0.005522,0.002551,-0.013478,-0.001649,-0.005798,-0.004404,0.02348,0.005171,-0.023208,0.005321,0.004777,-0.003502,0.008735,0.008903,-0.00493,0.003615,0.001078
Germanic:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL93,0.132035,0.140143,0. 066373,0.05491,0.041238,0.014223,0.00846,0.013846,-0.002659,-0.007472,-0.008444,0.003747,-0.011893,-0.01156,0.03678,0.013259,-0.005737,0.002407,0.002263,0.001751,0.018093,0.009 892,-0.000739,0.009399,0.005149
Germanic:Scythian_MDA_o_scy303,0.129758,0.131003,0 .065242,0.063308,0.037238,0.02008,0.00846,0.003461 ,0.007158,-0.007472,-0.000812,0.002398,-0.00773,-0.011147,0.015336,0.024529,0.014473,0.001267,-0.001508,0.006378,0.006988,0.001237,-0.001972,0.001084,0.008263
Germanic:SWE_IA_RISE174,0.122929,0.123895,0.067127 ,0.058463,0.041238,0.02008,0.005875,0.007615,0.002 863,-0.009659,0.003735,0.001948,-0.006987,0.003853,0.020358,-0.006762,-0.015385,0.006461,0.009427,0.00025,0.00025,0.00284 4,0.002465,0.011447,0.000359
Germanic:SWE_LN_RISE97,0.117238,0.133034,0.060339, 0.058463,0.036314,0.004183,0.001645,0.007154,0.002 454,-0.000729,-0.002923,0.003147,-0.006392,-0.01156,0.021851,0.019888,0.012126,-0.003927,0.012444,0.004877,0.012852,0.012489,-0.003451,-0.009158,-0.002275
Germanic:SWE_LN_RISE98,0.121791,0.12491,0.070899,0 .072029,0.041546,0.0251,0.012691,0.008077,0.003681 ,-0.00328,0.00341,0.008393,-0.005946,-0.014038,0.019544,0.019491,0.0103,0.005574,0.00666 2,0.013882,0.005989,0.00272,0.001849,-0.000602,-0.002395
Germanic:SWE_Ollsjo_BA_oll007,0.120652,0.12491,0.0 56191,0.051357,0.038161,0.015618,0.00752,-0.002308,0.001227,0.004738,-0.005521,-0.002997,-0.009663,-0.01968,0.015201,0.005038,0.009388,0.00076,0,0.014 382,0.002371,0.002473,-0.001725,0.005302,0.006706
Germanic:SWE_Ollsjo_BA_oll009,0.126344,0.133034,0. 067127,0.063631,0.040623,0.016733,0.002585,0.00576 9,0.008795,0.00328,0.001786,0.01139,-0.005946,-0.000413,0.027958,0.014452,-0.016428,0.010515,0.003771,0.002501,0.006863,-0.007914,-0.004314,0.005302,-0.004431
Germanic:SWE_Ollsjo_BA_oll010,0.133173,0.140143,0. 070144,0.051034,0.029544,0.018128,0.006345,0.01592 2,0.002863,-0.010205,0.000325,0.016785,-0.013974,-0.012661,0.012622,0.003315,0.005476,0.001267,-0.00264,0.024387,0.021961,0.004946,-0.001232,0.009037,0.005748
Germanic:VK2020_DNK_Jutland_IA_VK582,0.136588,0.13 405,0.070522,0.069445,0.036007,0.022869,0.009635,0 .013615,0.012885,-0.004374,0.006333,0.019633,-0.014271,-0.021744,0.015472,0.010607,0.001304,0.007095,0.001 76,0.02101,0.014974,-0.000247,0.000986,0.025666,-0.00467
Germanic:VK2020_DNK_Sealand_IA_VK521,0.12862,0.131 003,0.069013,0.063954,0.044008,0.022032,0,0.013615 ,0.008999,-0.010934,-0.003085,0.003447,-0.008028,-0.002752,0.020629,0,-0.020861,0.007728,0.005908,0.008879,0.012977,0.010 263,-0.002588,0.010363,-0.002515
Germanic:VK2020_DNK_Sealand_IA_VK532,0.121791,0.13 1003,0.063356,0.063631,0.041238,0.018965,0.004465, 0.010615,0.003068,-0.013668,-0.002761,0.007793,-0.00773,-0.004679,0.02538,0.007558,-0.007171,0.006588,0.009302,0.006628,0.002371,-0.000866,0.000739,0.01687,0.003712
Germanic:VK2020_DNK_Sealand_LNBA_VK214,0.117238,0. 118817,0.079572,0.075905,0.048317,0.020638,-0.00094,0.01523,0.008181,-0.02278,-0.00682,-0.00045,-0.010852,-0.00289,0.023751,0.009546,-0.022948,0.01647,0.004148,-0.003377,0.018343,0.000742,0.000863,-0.000241,0.010897
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_Mid_IA_VK523,0.125205,0.125926 ,0.07731,0.06783,0.048009,0.023148,-0.00094,0.012461,0.006749,-0.017677,-0.003248,0.002548,-0.005203,-0.007707,0.020358,0.013392,-0.002086,-0.002407,0.003394,0.004002,0.004492,0.000495,-0.004437,-0.001084,0.001916
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_North_IA_VK418,0.125205,0.1320 19,0.070144,0.064277,0.040315,0.019522,0.00423,0.0 13846,0.007567,-0.007107,-0.001786,-0.002847,-0.011001,-0.001514,0.031487,-0.005967,-0.029858,-0.0019,0.00352,0.003001,0.010606,0.000371,0,0.0030 12,-0.000838
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_South_IA_VK390,0.121791,0.1259 26,0.076555,0.06783,0.040931,0.029005,0.003995,0.0 06231,0,-0.00893,-0.005684,0.002997,-0.011596,-0.010735,0.027551,0.007955,-0.009779,0.006208,0.008799,0.013006,0.018967,-0.000495,0.001972,0.007953,0.001197
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_South_IA_VK391,0.12862,0.14115 9,0.080327,0.062662,0.047701,0.022311,0.012691,0.0 11076,-0.003068,-0.015672,-0.012666,-0.004496,-0.002081,-0.007707,0.019679,0.0118,0.004303,0.003547,-0.006159,0.001,0.006988,-0.002597,-0.010723,0.014098,0.011017
Germanic:VK2020_SWE_Oland_IA_VK522,0.130897,0.1320 19,0.073916,0.066861,0.050163,0.022311,-0.00188,0.006231,0.010226,-0.003645,-0.002111,0.002548,-0.002081,-0.00578,0.018458,0.010475,-0.006389,-0.001774,0.005279,0.007504,0.002995,0.005441,0.000 246,0.020364,0.001078
Germanic:VK2020_SWE_Oland_IA_VK579,0.110408,0.1238 95,0.085229,0.070414,0.035083,0.02259,0.01034,0.00 5769,-0.003886,-0.012939,-0.006983,0.007343,-0.005054,0.006881,0.010858,0.005967,-0.023078,0.004307,0.00264,-0.001751,0.011605,0.008656,-0.008874,0.014701,-0.002155


the Szolad, Collegno and Vikings are also in k13 ancient.

for Anatolia these could be good:

MA2200_Anatolia_MLBA.SG_3800_ybp,2.30,0.00,24.62,2 5.44,41.07,6.09,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.48,0.00,0.00
MA2203_Anatolia_MLBA.SG_3800_ybp,10.14,0.00,24.29, 15.47,42.31,6.07,0.24,0.30,0.00,0.00,0.01,0.29,0.8 8
MA2205_Anatolia_MLBA.SG_3800_ybp,0.84,0.00,21.01,2 5.74,45.03,6.16,0.00,1.09,0.00,0.13,0.00,0.00,0.00
MA2206_Anatolia_MLBA.SG_3800_ybp,3.02,0.00,23.15,2 5.98,42.95,3.48,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.68,0.74,0.00,0.00

[JohnnyP]

It doesn't. Early Czech Slav has local Celtic substratum ,(which is SW shifted compared to proto Slavs), both samples have nothing to do with Balkans.

Yes they have , comparing them with samples from Iron Age , (Balkans_IA is BGR_IA)
https://i.imgur.com/b0r6ZED.png

[Dick]

if paleo Balkan equals neolithic then all Europeans have it or we'd all look like fucking eskimos.

[blueeyes]

Decided to take up Feiichy's idea for myself. I'd say the sampling here is fair considering the absurdely low distances to all of the balkan averages, but if you have any suggestions, feel free to add.

Target: Bosniak
Distance: 0.2649% / 0.26486108
62.7 Slavic
19.0 Paleo_Balkan
12.0 Eastern_Mediterranean
6.3 Germanic

Target: Serb
Distance: 0.1302% / 0.13022115
55.2 Slavic
31.3 Paleo_Balkan
7.9 Eastern_Mediterranean
5.6 Germanic

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 0.3155% / 0.31548324
43.0 Slavic
30.9 Paleo_Balkan
17.1 Eastern_Mediterranean
9.0 Germanic

Target: Macedonian
Distance: 0.4005% / 0.40054855
46.7 Paleo_Balkan
36.4 Slavic
12.3 Eastern_Mediterranean
4.6 Germanic

Target: Albanian
Distance: 0.5368% / 0.53677785
58.2 Paleo_Balkan
27.6 Slavic
11.5 Eastern_Mediterranean
2.7 Germanic

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 0.0814% / 0.08138267
43.3 Slavic
29.1 Paleo_Balkan
21.6 Eastern_Mediterranean
6.0 Germanic


The amount of Slavic blood seems to be greatly exaggerated! Serbs and Bosniaks are too dark to be 50-65% Slavic. They look like pure Paleo-Balkan who just speaking Slavic language.
Albanians aren't 28% Slavic either.


https://www.predsednik.rs/images/2020/06/14/gol1392-1920x0.jpg
https://makfax.com.mk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/kosovo-vojska-1-900x600.jpg
https://www.rtrs.tv/_FOTO/nwz/0467/046744.jpg

[CommonSense]

The amount of Slavic blood seems to be greatly exaggerated! Serbs and Bosniaks are too dark to be 50-65% Slavic. They look like pure Paleo-Balkan who just speaking Slavic language.
Albanians aren't 28% Slavic either.




Not sure what that's supposed to mean. There are even ethnic Russian indviduals who look Balkan. Our ethnogenesis happened in the Early Middle Ages. Phenotype and pigmentation can easily change within a few generations, let alone a period over a millenium.

[vbnetkhio]

Decided to take up Feiichy's idea for myself. I'd say the sampling here is fair considering the absurdely low distances to all of the balkan averages, but if you have any suggestions, feel free to add.


imo, by the time Slavs arrived, the Mycenaean cluster probably didn't exist anymore, especially in the northern part of the Balkans.
They give a good fit for Serbs, but then the Slavic gets overestimated:



Distance to: Dušan
1.79944108 41.40% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 58.60% Slavic/Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
2.30020233 33.60% Paleo_Balkan/I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp + 66.40% Slavic/Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212
2.38761442 31.80% Paleo_Balkan/I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp + 68.20% Slavic/AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_
2.56403743 42.20% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 57.80% Slavic/Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454
2.89198780 28.60% Paleo_Balkan/I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_ + 71.40% Slavic/Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
2.91615950 24.60% Paleo_Balkan/I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_ + 75.40% Slavic/Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
3.00537627 26.00% Paleo_Balkan/I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp + 74.00% Slavic/Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
3.08740914 25.60% Paleo_Balkan/I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp + 74.40% Slavic/Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
3.15846542 48.00% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 52.00% Slavic/AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_
3.31129070 50.20% Paleo_Balkan/MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_ + 49.80% Slavic/Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212
The Serb average gets modelled like this too.
something like MJ12 is more realistic for our pre-Slavic population. Maybe not closely related to it, but a similar overall autosomal mix.

These are the G25 samples which represent what could've been in the balkans when the Slavs arrived, in my opinion:

Balkan_IA_Roman:BGR_IA_I5769,0.126344,0.157407,0.0 07165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
Balkan_IA_Roman:DEU_MA_ACD_NW_54,0.129758,0.141159 ,0.024136,-0.000646,0.032929,-0.004183,0.009635,-0.005077,0.016771,0.015855,0.00747,0.002398,-0.011893,0.010872,-0.005836,-0.01127,-0.002999,0.003927,0.016215,-0.014757,-0.000624,0.011994,0.00912,0.002771,0.00467
Balkan_IA_Roman:DEU_MA_ACD_STR_310,0.111547,0.1340 5,0.02489,0.00323,0.011694,-0.006136,0.00611,0.006,-0.001432,0.012028,0.000812,0.007044,-0.011744,-0.008257,-0.008415,-0.00411,0.009909,-0.006588,-0.001508,0.006753,-0.000374,0.001855,0.000493,-0.003735,-0.00479
Balkan_IA_Roman:DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine_NIEcap3b ,0.124067,0.139128,0.026776,-0.007752,0.016926,-0.005857,0.00329,-0.000462,0.001841,0.015672,0.002598,0.007493,-0.011447,0.003028,-0.003936,-0.012331,-0.008866,0.002027,0.010307,-5e-04,-0.011729,0.002844,-0.002342,0.000964,-0.002994
Balkan_IA_Roman:DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine_NIEcap3c ,0.10927,0.152329,0.019987,-0.020672,0.022158,-0.006972,-0.00235,-0.002769,0.012885,0.032802,-0.002436,3e-04,-0.014866,0.000826,-0.000679,-0.004641,-0.000391,-0.005448,0.005154,0.000375,-0.00025,0.003833,-0.000986,0.010724,-0.00491
Balkan_IA_Roman:DEU_MA_o_STR_300,0.125205,0.165531 ,-0.001886,-0.05491,0.024004,-0.015339,0.009165,0.010384,0.003681,0.029887,0.003 41,-0.000599,-0.009663,-0.006331,-0.029044,-0.005304,0.002868,-0.004814,-0.002765,-0.016758,-0.007237,0.009645,0.008381,0.00253,-0.004191
Balkan_IA_Roman:HRV_IA_I3313,0.132035,0.151314,0.0 33941,-0.01615,0.024928,-0.005857,-0.006345,0.007154,0.003681,0.028976,0.001786,0.011 69,-0.02111,-0.001376,-0.005972,-0.008486,-0.006519,0.004941,0.005531,-0.014257,-0.001872,0.00507,0.001479,0.00253,0.003353
Balkan_IA_Roman:HUN_MA_Szolad_o1_SZ19,0.120652,0.1 67562,0.012822,-0.045866,0.035391,-0.022869,-0.00047,-0.000923,0.001023,0.045559,0.007145,0.01079,-0.013528,0.007844,-0.014115,-0.018297,-0.003129,0.003421,0.008547,-0.016258,-0.010232,0.003462,0.005793,0.007832,0.001317
Balkan_IA_Roman:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ28,0.124067,0.1482 67,0.029793,-0.008075,0.032006,-0.006972,0.00047,-0.003461,0.015339,0.032074,-0.004547,0.007493,-0.014569,0.002064,-0.005293,0.000928,0.006389,0.00266,0.006662,-0.004627,0.004742,0.002226,-0.005176,-0.00494,-0.001557
Balkan_IA_Roman:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ32,0.111547,0.1574 07,0.015085,-0.024871,0.026466,-0.015618,0.00141,-0.002308,0.005727,0.019135,0.002598,0.001798,-0.011298,-0.008808,-0.004072,0.002784,0.003651,0.001014,-0.000126,-0.002001,-0.006239,0.000495,0.00456,-0.01458,-0.001916
Balkan_IA_Roman:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ36,0.117238,0.1482 67,0.011691,-0.025517,0.028313,-0.010319,0.003525,0.006923,0.00225,0.02041,0.00308 5,-0.000599,-0.009663,-0.004679,-0.001357,0.005834,0.00326,-0.000887,0.000377,0.001501,-0.008111,0.004451,0.006779,0.001566,-0.000479
Balkan_IA_Roman:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ37,0.118376,0.1391 28,0.014708,-0.012597,0.01231,-0.006414,-0.004935,0.011769,0.004704,0.013121,-0.003735,0.004796,-0.013379,-0.001514,-0.008143,-0.00053,-0.00326,-0.005574,0.01257,-0.002626,-0.006738,0.006306,-0.000246,0.001807,-0.006706
Balkan_IA_Roman:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ40,0.108132,0.1492 83,0.00264,-0.037791,0.018157,-0.010598,0.00094,-0.014538,0.003477,0.026789,-0.002436,0.008243,-0.007582,-0.008945,-0.00285,0.005304,0.020731,-0.003927,-0.000377,0.000375,-0.011355,0.00507,0.002218,0.00482,-0.005149
Balkan_IA_Roman:HUN_MA_Szolad_SZ43,0.122929,0.1452 21,0.01697,-0.019057,0.030775,-0.01506,-0.004465,-0.004154,0.009613,0.020775,0.002436,0.005545,-0.011596,-0.007019,0.00095,-0.006364,0.011343,0.000507,0.005656,-0.00075,-0.006239,0.000989,0.004314,0.006145,-0.001078
Balkan_IA_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL121,0.108132,0.1 52329,0.000754,-0.036822,0.019388,-0.022032,0.000235,-0.003692,0.000205,0.028793,-0.005846,0.01109,-0.011447,0.00055,0.000814,-0.006762,-0.009257,0.004814,-0.003394,-0.01013,-0.004991,0.003091,0.004437,0.00241,-0.007664
Balkan_IA_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL23,0.114961,0.14 2174,0.026776,-0.008398,0.02462,0.000558,-0.00282,-0.006231,0.011249,0.017495,-0.001949,0.006594,-0.01442,-0.010322,0.000543,-0.009679,-0.018254,-0.002534,0.005405,-0.01088,0.000125,-0.000371,0.001232,0.004458,-0.000958
Balkan_IA_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL36,0.117238,0.15 0298,0.025267,-0.018088,0.027082,-0.006414,-0.00658,-0.010384,0.004704,0.0277,0.00065,0.001349,-0.016353,-0.002615,-0.003122,-0.009149,-0.018515,0.000253,0.005531,-0.003627,0.004866,0,0.003204,0.002892,0.005029
Balkan_IA_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1_CL25,0.105855,0 .151314,-0.029415,-0.052972,0.001846,-0.015897,-0.00282,-0.004615,0.001227,0.016583,0.006496,0.007643,-0.010258,0.004266,-0.004343,-0.004243,0.009518,-0.006081,0.011187,0.002126,-0.004492,0.009398,0.001479,-0.002048,0
Balkan_IA_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1_CL30,0.113823,0 .150298,-0.026398,-0.056848,0.008001,-0.015897,0.005875,0.001846,0.006136,0.015308,0.010 068,0.000599,-0.004757,0.003303,-0.0019,0.000133,0.005085,0.002787,0.004525,-0.001251,-0.001248,-0.008903,0.009983,-0.00253,-0.003233
Balkan_IA_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1_CL38,0.101303,0 .144205,-0.018856,-0.055556,0.007386,-0.016455,-0.00846,-0.008538,-0.004704,0.014397,0.004709,0.009591,-0.00996,-0.005643,-0.014251,0.000928,0.010561,0,-0.002263,0.001251,0.001123,0.006306,-0.002095,0.010001,0.008023
Balkan_IA_Roman:ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1,0.125205,0.138112,0.030547,-0.010982,0.023081,-0.011713,0.002115,-0.001846,0.006954,0.021139,0.008119,0.005845,-0.011596,-0.000826,-0.007465,-0.01432,-0.011604,0.005194,0.002765,-0.00988,-0.009733,0.001607,-0.002465,0.003976,-0.005508
Balkan_IA_Roman:Scythian_MDA_scy192,0.124067,0.137 096,0.015462,-0.020026,0.015695,-0.012829,0.00235,0.000692,0.001023,0.025878,0.0094 19,-0.000599,-0.006987,-0.008945,-0.013301,-0.009679,0.012908,0.004307,-0.000377,0.003502,-0.011729,0.009892,-0.004314,-0.004338,0.001796
Balkan_IA_Roman:Scythian_MDA_scy197,0.122929,0.140 143,0.029415,-0.023902,0.023081,-0.012829,0.015511,-0.005307,0.00225,0.035172,-0.005846,-0.001349,-0.01115,0.000275,-0.010586,-0.0118,0.001434,-0.000127,0.013324,-0.010255,-0.004742,-0.000989,0.003328,-0.002771,-0.008981
Balkan_IA_Roman:Scythian_MDA_scy300,0.1161,0.14014 3,0.025644,-0.031331,0.016618,-0.005299,-0.001645,-0.007384,0.007772,0.033531,0.006983,0.006744,-0.00446,-0.000963,-0.0095,0.002254,-0.000782,0.004561,0.012318,-0.006503,-0.004118,0.012489,-0.00037,-0.000723,0.010298
Balkan_IA_Roman:Scythian_MDA_scy305,0.118376,0.126 941,0.010936,-0.014212,0.017849,-0.006693,-0.001175,-0.001154,0.00225,0.022415,-0.003897,0.007343,-0.013974,0.008257,-0.010179,0.000663,-0.005476,0.004181,0.016341,-0.008254,-0.009234,0.005812,-0.007395,0.007471,0.002754
Balkan_IA_Roman:UKR_Cimmerian_o_MJ12,0.135449,0.13 8112,0.015462,-0.012274,0.020927,-0.008088,0.00235,-0.007384,-0.006545,0.034625,0.000487,0.008542,-0.008325,-0.008533,-0.014522,0.005171,0.025946,-0.000127,0.011439,0.005878,-0.019091,0.007666,0.004067,0.011929,-0.000239
Greek_Dodecanese:664,0.106994,0.145221,-0.02489,-0.054587,0.002154,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.004384,-0.002863,0.019499,0.00341,0.002548,-0.002676,-0.005092,-0.016694,-0.00305,0.010952,0.007095,0.003142,-0.004377,0.00025,-0.004328,-0.004437,-0.006627,0.003233
Greek_Dodecanese:665,0.101303,0.15436,-0.033564,-0.064277,0.005232,-0.022869,0.00752,-0.006,0.001023,0.017495,0.005521,0.002098,-0.004311,-0.000413,-0.010722,-0.013657,-0.010431,0.006461,0.007919,-0.003126,-0.010357,0.010016,-0.001725,0.003976,-0.01916
Greek_Dodecanese:666,0.104717,0.140143,-0.032432,-0.072029,0.000308,-0.026216,-0.002115,-0.007615,-0.011862,0.015855,0.005846,0.004946,-0.004906,-0.008533,-0.012486,0.01127,0.021122,0.004687,-0.000377,-0.001251,0.003743,0.00136,-0.003697,-0.003856,0.004431
Greek_Dodecanese:667,0.110408,0.157407,-0.023759,-0.065246,-0.003077,-0.01757,0.00423,-0.002538,0.007158,0.016401,0,0.007343,0.002379,0.0 06055,-0.013843,-0.008353,-0.014473,0.007221,0.006159,-0.003001,-0.008859,-0.004328,0.005176,0.001807,-0.008622
Greek_Dodecanese:668,0.104717,0.149283,-0.021119,-0.062662,0.005232,-0.026216,0.006815,0.003231,-0.001432,0.016583,0.010555,-0.002548,-0.004757,0.005918,-0.016422,-0.003315,-0.001173,0.001774,0.00993,-0.003752,-0.010731,-0.007543,0.003204,0.002892,-0.001676
Greek_Dodecanese:669,0.104717,0.144205,-0.023004,-0.056202,0,-0.012829,0.00752,-0.005538,0.001227,0.011116,0.00341,-0.001349,-0.002676,-0.007432,-0.008143,-0.00053,0.008084,0.008361,0.006411,-0.005253,-0.008735,-0.002968,0.003574,0.013255,0.000479
Greek_Dodecanese:670,0.105855,0.142174,-0.029415,-0.045866,0.006155,-0.008088,-0.003055,-0.009,-0.001227,0.015855,0.012991,-3e-04,-0.004014,0.009496,-0.011536,0.00305,0.002217,0.003547,0.003017,-0.011881,-0.000374,0.00779,-0.004314,-0.005061,-0.006586
Greek_Dodecanese:671,0.10927,0.141159,-0.015462,-0.042636,0.004616,-0.018128,-0.00282,-0.007384,-0.006954,0.016219,0.003735,0.001649,-0.006987,-0.002615,-0.0057,0.005569,-0.005085,-0.000253,0.015084,-0.005002,0.001248,-0.002968,0.006039,-0.013375,-0.003113
Greek_Dodecanese:672,0.101303,0.148267,-0.025644,-0.068153,0.000308,-0.019801,0.011516,-0.001846,-0.007567,0.019681,0,0.003597,-0.006541,0.004679,-0.007872,0.001724,0.011083,0.008995,0.004651,-0.006628,-0.001123,-0.008285,0.001232,0.006507,0.002994
Greek_Dodecanese:673,0.110408,0.139128,-0.015085,-0.035853,0.000923,-0.009482,0.00423,-0.001154,-0.005522,0.017859,0.002598,0.002698,-0.010406,-0.007707,-0.020087,-0.005436,0.010691,0.00228,0.002765,-0.003252,-0.008111,0.001607,-0.001602,-0.008194,-0.006107
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1,0.104717,0.148267,-0.021119,-0.055556,0.007078,-0.019801,-0.002585,-0.002538,-0.004909,0.021504,0.00406,0.002398,-0.005649,0.006744,-0.010043,-0.013922,-0.006519,0.003041,0.001006,-0.010505,-0.004617,0.000742,-0.002711,-0.011568,-0.005269
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos10,0.10927,0.150298,-0.02753,-0.044897,-0.006463,-0.020917,0.004935,-0.002538,-0.009613,0.016766,0.003735,0.004496,-0.001784,0.001789,-0.007872,0.002254,0.010431,0.001647,0.008296,-0.007379,-0.002121,0.003215,-0.004067,-0.001325,-0.003952
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos2,0.106994,0.146236,-0.01961,-0.057171,0.003693,-0.018965,0.004465,0,-0.000818,0.014761,0.004709,-0.002398,-0.003271,-0.004404,-0.015879,0.013126,0.019297,0,0.003771,0.007879,-0.002745,0.004081,0.004807,0.005663,-0.003832
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos4,0.106994,0.146236,-0.029038,-0.053941,0.002154,-0.01255,0.00141,-0.003692,-0.003272,0.009659,0.005684,0.003597,-0.002676,0.003716,-0.0095,0.001724,0.005476,-0.00152,-0.000754,-0.005628,-0.000873,-0.002968,-0.003328,-0.005302,-0.003473
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos5,0.10927,0.142174,-0.01961,-0.055233,0.012002,-0.016455,0.000235,-0.002077,-0.004295,0.020957,0.001949,0.004046,-0.004757,0.004404,-0.010586,0.005436,0.005737,0.004181,0.00905,-0.005503,-0.004742,0.002102,-0.001602,-0.001566,0.005868
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos6,0.111547,0.144205,-0.017348,-0.052326,0.002462,-0.016455,-0.003525,-0.00923,-0.002659,0.013668,0.002598,0.002098,-0.003568,-0.001789,-0.005836,0.010872,0.021644,0.002154,0.00352,-0.001501,0,0.003215,0.004807,0.001566,-0.004431
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos7,0.108132,0.145221,-0.020365,-0.053295,0.006155,-0.020917,-0.00188,-0.002308,-0.00859,0.019317,0.003735,0.003897,-0.000743,0.003991,-0.011265,-0.009016,-0.010822,0.00152,0.005028,-0.004627,-0.006239,0.006183,0.002835,-0.004338,0.001437
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos8,0.102441,0.144205,-0.02225,-0.059755,0.000615,-0.017291,0.003525,-0.006,-0.011249,0.019135,-0.001137,0.005245,-0.01219,-0.003991,-0.010722,0.005701,0.019427,-0.002027,0.004399,-0.007253,-0.005366,0.001607,-0.003697,0.001928,-0.00491
Greek_Kos:GreeceKos9,0.10927,0.151314,-0.021496,-0.052649,0.009232,-0.020917,0.001175,-0.004846,-0.00859,0.015308,-0.001461,0.004946,-0.000595,-0.001789,-0.013708,0.01074,0.025425,-0.000507,-0.00088,0.001751,-0.007612,-0.003091,0.001356,0.002289,-0.000479

Interestingly, all of the Balkan IA samples still plot within the range of Roman/Early Medieval samples. The BA Balkan samples are different though, I didn't add them.
I added the Dodecanese Greeks because something like them must've existed too. They are necessary for modelling the eastern Balkans (Bulgarians, Gagauz)

[Jana]

The amount of Slavic blood seems to be greatly exaggerated! Serbs and Bosniaks are too dark to be 50-65% Slavic. They look like pure Paleo-Balkan who just speaking Slavic language.
Albanians aren't 28% Slavic either.

Ofcourse not. If they looked pre-Slavic, they would resemble south-central Italians which is not the case. They look exactly like their genetics, because admixture between Ukrainian and south Italian will come out dark.
It would be appreciated if you left your mentally retarded comments and obsession with Balkans elsewhere, chink.

Russian average, who you seem to have great obsession with, is similary Slavic as Serb one but instead of mediterranean admixture it has lot of Baltic and Finnic blood (which ofcourse lightened Russian phenotypes).

[Jana]

imo, by the time Slavs arrived, the Mycenaean cluster probably didn't exist anymore, especially in the northern part of the Balkans.

Agree.


Interestingly, all of the Balkan IA samples still plot within the range of Roman/Early Medieval samples. The BA Balkan samples are different though, I didn't add them.
I added the Dodecanese Greeks because something like them must've existed too. They are necessary for modelling the eastern Balkans (Bulgarians, Gagauz)

Agree with this as well. Bronze age Balkan profiles don't seem to give a good fit when modeling south Slavs, so I doubt such genetics existed when Slavs arrived. They are better to model Hungarians and Slovenians than SE Euros, probably because they had Celtic like admixture which remained present in Noricum and Panonnia. For west Balkan ancient population should have looked like Marche and Molise, as you move towards central Balkans Lazio and in the east something very southern like Dodecanese or Cretan is needed indeed (perhaps result of Black sea Greek colonisation, or southern Balkan migrations)

[Jana]

Yes they have , comparing them with samples from Iron Age , (Balkans_IA is BGR_IA)
https://i.imgur.com/b0r6ZED.png

No they don't. You just used too northern samples to model early Slavs (Baltic + Nordic IA), so algorithm compensated with adding something southern.
Your model is very nonsense btw. Sunghir can be modeled as Belarussian + 10% south Euro and that's exactly in range of early Slavs.

Trying to prove ancient sample from deep Russia which is genetically Ukrainian like and has as much relations with Balkans as with Africa has Paleo-Balkan admixture is ridiculous.

[Jana]

Baltic IA is closest to modern Estonians and ofcourse early Slavs were nothing like that. So no suprise Sunghir scored some Thracian to compensate in your shitty model.

Distance to: Baltic_EST_IA

0.02843465 Estonian
0.03216440 Latvian
0.03471466 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03776399 Lithuanian_VA
0.03796118 Lithuanian_RA
0.03838297 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03906274 Ingrian
0.04060499 Lithuanian_VZ
0.04110626 Lithuanian_PA
0.04114991 Russian_Tver
0.04443260 Karelian
0.04519660 Finnish
0.04686320 Russian_Kostroma
0.04754756 Belarusian
0.04804692 Cossack_Kuban
0.04830574 Russian_Kursk
0.04896203 Finnish_East
0.04936259 Vepsian
0.05115425 Russian_Orel
0.05130676 Russian_Voronez
0.05164957 Russian_Smolensk
0.05395133 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.05484337 Mordovian
0.05694939 Ukrainian
0.05835485 Russian_Pinega

[Varda]

Decided to take up Feiichy's idea for myself. I'd say the sampling here is fair considering the absurdely low distances to all of the balkan averages, but if you have any suggestions, feel free to add.


Paleo_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15 ,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00, 0.00,0.00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.0 2,24.41,7.67,19.60,1.39,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.23,0.00,0 .00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13.0 0,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.60,0.00,1.05,0.00,0.21,0.00, 0.00,0.64
Paleo_Balkan:MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_,17.31,16.47,24 .79,14.47,21.96,1.38,0.00,0.00,1.28,1.76,0.58,0.00 ,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_,18.69,1.27 ,31.47,12.51,27.61,2.03,0.00,0.87,0.24,0.00,0.87,3 .47,0.98
Paleo_Balkan:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp,8.75, 3.24,32.05,13.71,37.05,3.81,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.80,0. 58,0.00,0.00
Paleo_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48 ,30.00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0. 00,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:Canaanite_,1.63,0.00,14.65,1 5.10,51.26,17.37,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
Eastern_Mediterranean:Greek_Cappadocian,6.83,3.81, 18.16,27.6,36.59,4.92,0.94,0.03,0.64,0.03,0.4,0,0
Eastern_Mediterranean:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperi al,8.94,4.56,21.96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0.00 ,0.00,0.00,0.26,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_I mperial,6.85,0.00,21.95,22.60,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75 ,0.00,0.00,0.22,0.00,0.71
Eastern_Mediterranean:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_I mperial,2.63,8.50,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0.00,0.00 ,0.00,0.84,0.55,0.00,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imper ial,2.93,0.00,17.45,22.44,37.80,13.78,2.10,0.71,0. 00,0.02,0.31,2.45,0.00
Eastern_Mediterranean:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imper ial,5.31,0.00,12.60,36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0.0 0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_,25. 54,45.76,13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08, 0.58,0.53,0.00
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_,3 0.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1.56,0.8 9,0.00,0.42,0.00
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26, 8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.5 3,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63, 3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14. 97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11 .7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43. 78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0. 87
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.3 7,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9. 89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Germanic:ADA119_Slovakia_Poprad_1600_R_U106_U4b3_3 75_AD_2_,53.37,27.59,18.52,0.33,0.19,0.00,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Germanic:RISE174_Sweden_IA.SG_1431_ybp,48.47,30.87 ,7.80,5.77,0.58,0.36,2.19,0.00,1.18,1.06,0.56,0.17 ,1.00
Germanic:Alh1_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1500_ybp,5 0.39,26.23,13.00,5.30,0.00,1.40,0.00,1.70,0.00,1.1 1,0.49,0.38,0.00
Germanic:Alh10_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1489_ybp, 50.82,27.96,8.13,4.15,4.48,1.91,0.67,0.31,0.00,1.2 9,0.29,0.00,0.00
Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.25,26. 28,10.75,7.04,5.01,0.00,1.09,0.00,0.00,0.90,1.69,0 .00,0.00
Germanic:SZ15_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,49.81, 25.15,10.68,7.88,0.66,1.04,2.67,1.49,0.62,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00
Turkic:ADA101_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1716_ybp,1 5.48,20.81,0.00,25.74,0.00,0.00,10.64,6.48,15.16,4 .45,0.00,0.00,1.24
Turkic:ADA104_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1600_ybp,1 6.18,18.94,0.00,18.27,0.00,0.00,8.84,7.48,25.18,4. 61,0.15,0.35,0.00
Turkic:ADA105_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_son.DA104. SG_1783_ybp,15.25,20.57,0.86,20.19,0.00,0.00,6.40, 8.60,25.03,3.10,0.00,0.00,0.00
Turkic:ADA385_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1467_ybp,1 5.92,19.74,0.00,17.23,0.00,0.00,8.70,8.58,24.42,4. 84,0.00,0.00,0.56
Turkic:ADA65_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1511_ybp,23 .89,17.03,0.00,14.40,0.00,0.00,5.83,10.23,21.70,5. 38,0.04,0.00,1.49
Turkic:ADA66_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1447_ybp,14 .78,23.68,0.00,13.28,0.00,0.00,9.32,7.37,24.16,3.4 6,2.08,0.00,1.86
Turkic:ADA69_Kyrgyzstan_TianShanHun.SG_1516_ybp,17 .53,18.31,0.00,24.71,1.09,0.00,9.68,5.25,20.35,2.8 9,0.20,0.00,0.00



Target: Slovenian
Distance: 0.3803% / 0.38028983
56.7 Slavic
25.3 Germanic
10.8 Paleo_Balkan
7.2 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Croat
Distance: 0.2564% / 0.25638615
59.3 Slavic
16.1 Germanic
15.6 Paleo_Balkan
9.0 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Bosniak
Distance: 0.2649% / 0.26486108
62.7 Slavic
19.0 Paleo_Balkan
12.0 Eastern_Mediterranean
6.3 Germanic

Target: Serb
Distance: 0.1302% / 0.13022115
55.2 Slavic
31.3 Paleo_Balkan
7.9 Eastern_Mediterranean
5.6 Germanic

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 0.3155% / 0.31548324
43.0 Slavic
30.9 Paleo_Balkan
17.1 Eastern_Mediterranean
9.0 Germanic

Target: Macedonian
Distance: 0.4005% / 0.40054855
46.7 Paleo_Balkan
36.4 Slavic
12.3 Eastern_Mediterranean
4.6 Germanic

Target: Albanian
Distance: 0.5368% / 0.53677785
58.2 Paleo_Balkan
27.6 Slavic
11.5 Eastern_Mediterranean
2.7 Germanic

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 0.0814% / 0.08138267
43.3 Slavic
29.1 Paleo_Balkan
21.6 Eastern_Mediterranean
6.0 Germanic

Target: Romanian
Distance: 0.0797% / 0.07967599
47.1 Slavic
31.6 Paleo_Balkan
14.0 Eastern_Mediterranean
5.5 Germanic
1.8 Turkic

Target: Moldavian
Distance: 0.0839% / 0.08386034
61.5 Slavic
20.0 Paleo_Balkan
12.3 Eastern_Mediterranean
4.1 Germanic
2.1 Turkic

For Serbs "northern" autosomal dna (Slavic + Germanic) is 60.8%

It's almost identical as I2 (39.2%) + R1a (14.1%) + I1 (8.1%) = 61.4% for ethnic Serbs on the sample of 2086 (source https://www.poreklo.rs/2019/06/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ethnic-serbs/
https://www.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/YDNA-EthnicSerbs-za-Poreklo-1.png

[RicoSuave]

For Serbs "northern" autosomalndna (Slavic + Germanic) is 60.8%

It's almost identical as I2 (39.2%) + R1a (14.1%) + I1 (8.1%) = 61.4% for ethnic Serbs on the sample of 2086 (source https://www.poreklo.rs/2019/06/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ethnic-serbs/
https://www.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/YDNA-Ethnic-Serbs-za-Poreklo-1.png

Wishful thinking, can I post the real Serbs in here? I don't why I even asking permission haha

[Varda]

Wishful thinking, can I post the real Serbs in here? I don't why I even asking permission haha

???

[RicoSuave]

???

I will post it when I'm back from store

[Leto]

???
That's a new sock puppet of Cumansky. I don't know why he needs a sock, the "Dirdepo" account is not banned as far as I'm concerned.

[Varda]

That's a new sock puppet of Cumansky. I don't know why he needs a sock, the "Dirdepo" account is not banned as far as I'm concerned.

I assumed. :)

[RicoSuave]

Davidski added 18 new Serbs to spreadsheet, I will run them now cause I'm back

[Varda]

Davidski added 18 new Serbs to spreadsheet, I will run them now cause I'm back

Sockpuppet, stop trolling this thread!

[RicoSuave]

Sockpuppet, stop trolling this thread!

Who is trolling?

[RicoSuave]

For Serbs "northern" autosomalndna (Slavic + Germanic) is 60.8%

It's almost identical as I2 (39.2%) + R1a (14.1%) + I1 (8.1%) = 61.4% for ethnic Serbs on the sample of 2086 (source https://www.poreklo.rs/2019/06/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ethnic-serbs/
https://www.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/YDNA-EthnicSerbs-za-Poreklo-1.png

There is a huge discrepancy between my math and yours, what is going on here Varda???

18 New Serbian Samples Combined North Eurasian DNA:

Serbian729 - 34.2
Serbian728 - 43.4
Serbian727 - 31.2
Serbian726 - 34.2
Serbian725 - 37.8
Serbian724 - 34.0
Serbian723 - 37.8
Serbian722 - 31.6
Serbian721 - 41.0
Serbian720 - 38.0
Serbian719 - 47.0
Serbian718 - 29.8
Serbian717 - 40.6
Serbian715 - 32.2
Serbian713 - 32.4
Serbian712 - 38.4
Serbian711 - 37.8
Serbian710 - 28.2

There is 4/18 that exceed 40% North Eurasian DNA, the rest don't. Zero are at 50% North Eurasian DNA let that sink in zero are at 50%. 61.4% North Eurasian DNA is falsified information. I can post my sources they are academic.

[RicoSuave]

Varda is a troll gtfo you liars, Bugarski Khan

[RicoSuave]

Target: Serbian:710
Distance: 2.4880% / 0.02488031
32.2 Grcki
26.6 SevernoSlovenski
25.4 Bugarski
14.2 Africki
1.6 UralSkandinavski

Target: Serbian:719
Distance: 1.7003% / 0.01700315
50.2 Grcki
28.0 UralSkandinavski
19.0 SevernoSlovenski
2.8 Bugarski


I wrote that even in your language if you don't understand.

[Varda]

I think there was a first migration wave from Herzegovina which was more Slavic, and then in the following centuries there were additional waves which were less Slavic, because they came from the more isolated mountainous parts of Herzegovina (Drobnjak, Piva) and even from South Montenegro (Kuči, Vasojevići), also Kriči, which were from in between.

So Serbs in the Trebinje, Nevesinje etc, got the most from these following waves, and those in Banija, Northern Bosnia and Mačva the least, so they are actually closer to the original autosomal dna of Herzegovinians.

Herzegovina as old homeland of Krajina families (haplogroup R1a-Z282) https://www.poreklo.rs/2021/04/02/hercegovina-kao-matica-krajiskih-rodova-haplogrupa-r1a-z282/

Herzegovina as old homeland of Krajina families (haplogroup I2-Y3120) https://www.poreklo.rs/2021/03/31/hercegovina-kao-matica-krajiskih-rodova-haplogrupa-i2-y3120/

[Ayetooey]

Karlovac Serb.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/552233702378307594/834861371392917544/unknown.png

[Ayetooey]

Serbian-American woman with all four grandparents born in Serbia, no locations listed.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/552233702378307594/834859495754170428/unknown.png

[Dušan]

Karlovac Serb.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/552233702378307594/834861371392917544/unknown.png


Interesting, so low west-Asian score - 2%.

Seems all that went to east-Med

[Varda]

Bosnian Serb.
https://i.ibb.co/Cm4Cckz/Screenshot-20200519-183636-Chrome.jpg

[CommonSense]

Serb/Montenegrin (I don't know what he identified as) with ancestry from Plužine municipality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plu%C5%BEine_Municipality) in the historical region of (Old) Herzegovina.

Disclaimer: The kit is very old considering the man died way back in 2014! Still I feel this is worth seeing:




Kit M482405

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.67
2 North_Atlantic 26.65
3 West_Med 18.86
4 East_Med 12.23
5 West_Asian 10.78
6 Amerindian 1.32
7 Siberian 1.1
8 Red_Sea 1.06
9 Oceanian 0.25
10 South_Asian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.71
2 Romanian 6.42
3 Moldavian 7.01
4 Bulgarian 8.81
5 Hungarian 8.96
6 Croatian 9.22
7 Austrian 11.28
8 East_German 12.69
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.64
10 West_German 16.23
11 South_Polish 16.32
12 Greek_Thessaly 16.82
13 Ukrainian 16.95
14 French 17.49
15 North_Italian 17.57
16 South_Dutch 17.6
17 Tuscan 19.78
18 Polish 19.84
19 Portuguese 20.28
20 Spanish_Galicia 20.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.6% Moldavian + 27.4% North_Italian @ 2.49
2 78.4% Moldavian + 21.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.95
3 77.5% Moldavian + 22.5% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.27
4 75.9% Moldavian + 24.1% Tuscan @ 3.27
5 79.1% Moldavian + 20.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.36
6 78.3% Moldavian + 21.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.37
7 78.5% Moldavian + 21.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.42
8 81.1% Moldavian + 18.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.55
9 76.8% Moldavian + 23.2% Portuguese @ 3.55
10 77.5% Moldavian + 22.5% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.6
11 69.6% Croatian + 30.4% Tuscan @ 3.6
12 60.3% Bulgarian + 39.7% East_German @ 3.62
13 78.4% Moldavian + 21.6% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.7
14 79.3% Moldavian + 20.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.71
15 87% Moldavian + 13% Sardinian @ 3.74
16 67.1% Croatian + 32.9% North_Italian @ 3.76
17 77.2% Moldavian + 22.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.78
18 70.1% Romanian + 29.9% East_German @ 3.81
19 72.4% Croatian + 27.6% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.83
20 79.6% Moldavian + 20.4% Southwest_French @ 3.91

[Dušan]

Bosnian Serb.
https://i.ibb.co/Cm4Cckz/Screenshot-20200519-183636-Chrome.jpg

His mixed mode on Gedmatch:
65.4% Ukrainian + 34.6% West_Sicilian @ 3.35


My mixed mode on Gedmatch:
68.8% Ukrainian + 31.2% East_Sicilian @ 4.23

[Varda]

---

Could you post ancient admixture for new Serbian regional averages (early Slavic, paleo Balkan, early Germanic) https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?310130-NEW!-All-Gedmatch-calculators-on-Vahaduo-ON-LINE&p=7182351&viewfull=1#post7182351

[Flashball]

Interesting

[Dušan]

Could you post ancient admixture for new Serbian regional averages (early Slavic, paleo Balkan, early Germanic) https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?310130-NEW!-All-Gedmatch-calculators-on-Vahaduo-ON-LINE&p=7182351&viewfull=1#post7182351


https://i.imgur.com/FLFcZs1.png




Version with only proto-Slavic and paleo-Balkan&Roman components:

https://i.imgur.com/DRlmiYD.png

[vbnetkhio]

Could you post ancient admixture for new Serbian regional averages (early Slavic, paleo Balkan, early Germanic) https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?310130-NEW!-All-Gedmatch-calculators-on-Vahaduo-ON-LINE&p=7182351&viewfull=1#post7182351
my version:
https://i.imgur.com/5LpQCIZ.png

samples:

Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_654,7.09,2.22,16.31,2 3.17,40.56,8.38,1.57,0.01,0.5,0.07,0.12,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_655,5.53,1.84,16.56,3 0.06,37.43,7.43,0.01,0.07,1.07,0,0,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_656,7.23,2.74,12.41,3 4.16,36.8,4.84,1.74,0,0,0,0.08,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_657,4.88,4.52,20.21,2 7.79,34.7,4.59,3.06,0.03,0.2,0,0.01,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_658,4.56,4.4,17.97,27 .79,41.33,3.73,0,0,0.03,0,0.19,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_659,7.98,2.53,19.26,2 9.73,32.9,5.41,0.37,0.52,0.13,0.69,0.48,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_660,6.24,0.02,15.22,2 9.4,38.49,7.21,0.27,0.53,1.88,0.02,0.73,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_661,9.43,3.52,16.24,2 7.55,35.32,6.35,1.14,0.37,0.07,0.01,0,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_662,3.56,6.69,16.65,2 4.62,38.25,6.92,0.71,0,2.46,0,0.15,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_663,3.66,2.59,18.77,3 2.28,37.15,3.33,1.84,0,0,0.01,0.37,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Niğde,6.37,5.18,20.97,27.44,33.3 6,5.71,0.07,0.15,0.39,0,0.36,0,0
Balkan_IA:MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_,17.31,16.47,24.79 ,14.47,21.96,1.38,0.00,0.00,1.28,1.76,0.58,0.00,0. 00
Balkan_IA:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12 .62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00
Balkan_IA:scy192_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,25.17,13.2 9,18.61,11.78,24.56,1.68,1.91,0,0.6,0,2.4,0,0
Balkan_IA:scy197_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,19.25,15.8 ,28.22,3.76,22.72,7.4,0,0,2.85,0,0,0,0
Balkan_IA:scy300_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,25.15,5.55 ,24.79,9.86,24.18,6.31,0,2.61,0,1.53,0,0,0
Balkan_IA:scy305_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,34.92,7.94 ,20.66,19.7,11.46,1.06,2.43,0.64,0,0,0,0,1.19
Balkan_IA:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30 .00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00, 0.00
Balkan_IA:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp,8.75,3.2 4,32.05,13.71,37.05,3.81,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.80,0.58, 0.00,0.00
Balkan_IA:I9010_Mycenaean_1351_bc_,10.52,2.73,31.9 2,8.82,36.83,8.03,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.86,0.00,0. 30
Balkan_IA:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_,18.69,1.27,31 .47,12.51,27.61,2.03,0.00,0.87,0.24,0.00,0.87,3.47 ,0.98
Balkan_IA:I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp,20.11,0. 00,30.28,9.34,35.01,3.56,0.00,0.00,1.40,0.00,0.00, 0.30,0.00
Early_Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640 _AD_,30.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1. 56,0.89,0.00,0.42,0.00
Early_Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2 a_,25.54,45.76,13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60 ,1.08,0.58,0.53,0.00
Early_Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43 .28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1. 29
Early_Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22. 48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0 .73,0.87
Early_Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48. 84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Early_Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47, 45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.1 6,0
Early_Slavic:Viking_Russia_Kurevanikha_VK160,24.63 ,54.16,7.49,3.96,2.47,1.99,1.17,1.75,0.31,0.67,0,0 .16,1.25
Early_Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK466,25.85,43 .15,9.22,12.82,0,0,2.34,0.15,0,2.09,1.69,0,2.6
Early_Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38 ,7.63,3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Early_Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43 .29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Early_Slavic:KRA011,29.56,50.68,8.38,2.39,2.54,1.0 3,1.30,0.14,0,1.40,1.27,1.10,0.21
Germanic:CL145_longobard_north_italy,53.01,27.98,7 .21,5.65,0.79,1.05,2.78,0,0,0,0.99,0.55,0
Germanic:CL146_Longobard_,54.56,25.16,9.41,4.77,1. 52,0.92,1.25,0,0.63,0.55,0.4,0.83,0
Germanic:CL151_longobard_north_italy,55.73,27.25,6 .83,4.75,0,2.45,1.17,0,0,0.6,1.22,0,0
Germanic:CL83_longobard_north_italy,50.79,24.89,12 .46,6.2,0.71,2.68,0,1.18,0.2,0.26,0,0.63,0
Germanic:CL84_longobard_north_italy,51.4,26.75,12. 42,4.27,1.3,1.75,0,0.85,0.83,0,0,0.44,0
Germanic:CL87_longobard_north_italy,48.19,22.34,15 .47,5.32,3.89,2.63,0.53,0,0,0.79,0.09,0.66,0.09
Germanic:CL92_longobard_north_italy,48.87,28.93,9. 99,6.36,2.26,0,0,0.5,1.89,0,0.45,0.76,0
Germanic:CL93_longobard_north_italy,49.96,27.68,9. 25,8.59,0,1.17,0,0,1.12,0.35,0.83,0.3,0.75
Germanic:nuf002_Sigtuna_10_12_century_M_t1a1j_,54. 09,26.67,18.01,0.27,0.82,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.15
Germanic:RISE174_Sweden_IA.SG_1431_ybp,48.47,30.87 ,7.8,5.77,0.58,0.36,2.19,0,1.18,1.06,0.56,0.17,1
Germanic:RISE71_Falshoj_Denmark_3701_years_H3b_,56 .03,22.04,13.67,7.71,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.56
Germanic:RISE97_Sweden_LN.SG_3905_ybp,47.46,26.69, 11.55,4.1,2.77,1.8,1.48,0,0,1.17,1.54,0.01,1.43
Germanic:stg021_Sigtuna_,50.43,32.96,11.1,4.19,0.5 2,0,0.24,0.27,0,0.23,0,0,0
Germanic:stg026_Sigtuna_,55.35,38.11,6.54,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0
Germanic:SZ11_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,45.71, 26.53,12.76,12.49,0,0,0,0.46,0.52,0.58,0.66,0,0.28
Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.25,26. 28,10.75,7.04,5.01,0,1.09,0,0,0.9,1.69,0,0
Germanic:SZ13_Hungary_Langobard_son.SZ24_father.SZ 7_brother.SZ22_1469_ybp,51.91,27.94,8.54,6.68,0,1. 86,0.46,0,0,1.6,0.7,0.3,0
Germanic:SZ14_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.24,21. 95,12.92,11.46,1.94,1.53,0,0,0,0.7,0.46,0,1.81
Germanic:SZ15_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,49.81, 25.15,10.68,7.88,0.66,1.04,2.67,1.49,0.62,0,0,0,0
Germanic:SZ16_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,48.77,31. 63,9.58,6.5,0,0,1.35,0,0.85,0.66,0.45,0,0.21
Germanic:SZ2_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,52.77,3 2.44,5.78,5.42,0.27,0,0,0,0.31,0.34,0.89,1.25,0.53
Germanic:SZ22_Longobard_,47.64,28.46,10.25,7.39,1. 26,0.36,1.8,0,0,0.17,2.66,0,0
Germanic:SZ30_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,50.05,22. 89,10.04,6.96,5.21,0.14,2.36,0.88,0,0.65,0.16,0,0. 66
Germanic:SZ4_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,50.8,27 .85,9.46,7.27,0.17,0.52,2.02,0,1.24,0,0.66,0,0
Germanic:SZ41_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,50.62,30. 54,10.69,2.85,0,0,0,0,2.29,0.38,1.12,0,1.5
Germanic:SZ7_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,48.86,27.9 4,10.52,5.59,1.58,1.62,1.24,0,0.73,1.09,0.59,0,0.2 4
Germanic:SZ9_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,51.25,28.4 8,10.25,3.67,0.9,0.62,4.07,0,0.4,0.35,0,0,0
Germanic:urm035_Sigtuna_M_BCDE_h2a1c_,59.65,32.58, 7.76,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Germanic:vik_84001_Sweden_Viking.SG_989_ybp,48.64, 32.31,8.02,4.27,3.03,0,0,0,1.51,1.62,0.46,0,0.14
Germanic:vik_84035_Sweden_Viking_fail.due.to.high. heterozygosity.SG_1078_ybp,40.65,27.97,13.4,6.46,1 .32,1.56,2.09,0,2.89,1.06,0.74,0,1.86
Germanic:vik_grt035_Sweden_Viking.SG_996_ybp,53.09 ,24,12.1,6.14,0.74,1.43,0,0,0.51,1.16,0,0.83,0
Germanic:vik_kls001_Sweden_Viking.SG_900_ybp,49.93 ,31.75,6.98,0.05,4.03,1.05,0.71,0.04,2.75,0,1.08,0 .78,0.85
Germanic:vik_nuf002_Sweden_Viking.SG_900_ybp,46.55 ,27.91,9.45,2.83,7.96,0.75,1.16,0.36,0,0.82,1.04,1 .16,0
Germanic:vik_stg021_Sweden_Viking.SG_924_ybp,46.77 ,30.03,10.61,4.43,1.83,0.06,2.26,1.24,0.54,0.73,0. 18,1.18,0.16

[Ion Basescul]

my version:
https://i.imgur.com/5LpQCIZ.png


Interesting model; thanks and saved


<tbody>
Target
Distance
Balkan_IA
Early_Slavic
Germanic
Roman_Middle_east


IonBasescul_Merged
1.96645069
•
17.1
52.5
16.1
14.3


IonBasescul_MyHeritage
1.51197872
•
22.4
61.8
0.0
15.8


IonBasescul_brother_MyHeritage
1.59265520
•
34.7
56.0
0.0
9.3


IonBasescul_mom_MyHeritage
2.32851116
•
29.0
65.2
0.0
5.8


IonBasescul_dad_MyHeritage
1.09376005
•
28.3
62.8
0.6
8.3

</tbody>

[Jana]

my version:
https://i.imgur.com/5LpQCIZ.png

samples:

Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_654,7.09,2.22,16.31,2 3.17,40.56,8.38,1.57,0.01,0.5,0.07,0.12,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_655,5.53,1.84,16.56,3 0.06,37.43,7.43,0.01,0.07,1.07,0,0,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_656,7.23,2.74,12.41,3 4.16,36.8,4.84,1.74,0,0,0,0.08,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_657,4.88,4.52,20.21,2 7.79,34.7,4.59,3.06,0.03,0.2,0,0.01,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_658,4.56,4.4,17.97,27 .79,41.33,3.73,0,0,0.03,0,0.19,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_659,7.98,2.53,19.26,2 9.73,32.9,5.41,0.37,0.52,0.13,0.69,0.48,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_660,6.24,0.02,15.22,2 9.4,38.49,7.21,0.27,0.53,1.88,0.02,0.73,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_661,9.43,3.52,16.24,2 7.55,35.32,6.35,1.14,0.37,0.07,0.01,0,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_662,3.56,6.69,16.65,2 4.62,38.25,6.92,0.71,0,2.46,0,0.15,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Cappadocia_663,3.66,2.59,18.77,3 2.28,37.15,3.33,1.84,0,0,0.01,0.37,0,0
Roman_Middle_east:Niğde,6.37,5.18,20.97,27.44,33.3 6,5.71,0.07,0.15,0.39,0,0.36,0,0
Balkan_IA:MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_,17.31,16.47,24.79 ,14.47,21.96,1.38,0.00,0.00,1.28,1.76,0.58,0.00,0. 00
Balkan_IA:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12 .62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.0 0,0.00,0.00
Balkan_IA:scy192_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,25.17,13.2 9,18.61,11.78,24.56,1.68,1.91,0,0.6,0,2.4,0,0
Balkan_IA:scy197_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,19.25,15.8 ,28.22,3.76,22.72,7.4,0,0,2.85,0,0,0,0
Balkan_IA:scy300_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,25.15,5.55 ,24.79,9.86,24.18,6.31,0,2.61,0,1.53,0,0,0
Balkan_IA:scy305_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,34.92,7.94 ,20.66,19.7,11.46,1.06,2.43,0.64,0,0,0,0,1.19
Balkan_IA:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30 .00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00, 0.00
Balkan_IA:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp,8.75,3.2 4,32.05,13.71,37.05,3.81,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.80,0.58, 0.00,0.00
Balkan_IA:I9010_Mycenaean_1351_bc_,10.52,2.73,31.9 2,8.82,36.83,8.03,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.86,0.00,0. 30
Balkan_IA:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_,18.69,1.27,31 .47,12.51,27.61,2.03,0.00,0.87,0.24,0.00,0.87,3.47 ,0.98
Balkan_IA:I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp,20.11,0. 00,30.28,9.34,35.01,3.56,0.00,0.00,1.40,0.00,0.00, 0.30,0.00
Early_Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640 _AD_,30.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1. 56,0.89,0.00,0.42,0.00
Early_Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2 a_,25.54,45.76,13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60 ,1.08,0.58,0.53,0.00
Early_Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43 .28,11.7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1. 29
Early_Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22. 48,43.78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0 .73,0.87
Early_Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48. 84,9.53,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Early_Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47, 45.26,8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.1 6,0
Early_Slavic:Viking_Russia_Kurevanikha_VK160,24.63 ,54.16,7.49,3.96,2.47,1.99,1.17,1.75,0.31,0.67,0,0 .16,1.25
Early_Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK466,25.85,43 .15,9.22,12.82,0,0,2.34,0.15,0,2.09,1.69,0,2.6
Early_Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38 ,7.63,3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Early_Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43 .29,9.89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Early_Slavic:KRA011,29.56,50.68,8.38,2.39,2.54,1.0 3,1.30,0.14,0,1.40,1.27,1.10,0.21
Germanic:CL145_longobard_north_italy,53.01,27.98,7 .21,5.65,0.79,1.05,2.78,0,0,0,0.99,0.55,0
Germanic:CL146_Longobard_,54.56,25.16,9.41,4.77,1. 52,0.92,1.25,0,0.63,0.55,0.4,0.83,0
Germanic:CL151_longobard_north_italy,55.73,27.25,6 .83,4.75,0,2.45,1.17,0,0,0.6,1.22,0,0
Germanic:CL83_longobard_north_italy,50.79,24.89,12 .46,6.2,0.71,2.68,0,1.18,0.2,0.26,0,0.63,0
Germanic:CL84_longobard_north_italy,51.4,26.75,12. 42,4.27,1.3,1.75,0,0.85,0.83,0,0,0.44,0
Germanic:CL87_longobard_north_italy,48.19,22.34,15 .47,5.32,3.89,2.63,0.53,0,0,0.79,0.09,0.66,0.09
Germanic:CL92_longobard_north_italy,48.87,28.93,9. 99,6.36,2.26,0,0,0.5,1.89,0,0.45,0.76,0
Germanic:CL93_longobard_north_italy,49.96,27.68,9. 25,8.59,0,1.17,0,0,1.12,0.35,0.83,0.3,0.75
Germanic:nuf002_Sigtuna_10_12_century_M_t1a1j_,54. 09,26.67,18.01,0.27,0.82,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.15
Germanic:RISE174_Sweden_IA.SG_1431_ybp,48.47,30.87 ,7.8,5.77,0.58,0.36,2.19,0,1.18,1.06,0.56,0.17,1
Germanic:RISE71_Falshoj_Denmark_3701_years_H3b_,56 .03,22.04,13.67,7.71,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.56
Germanic:RISE97_Sweden_LN.SG_3905_ybp,47.46,26.69, 11.55,4.1,2.77,1.8,1.48,0,0,1.17,1.54,0.01,1.43
Germanic:stg021_Sigtuna_,50.43,32.96,11.1,4.19,0.5 2,0,0.24,0.27,0,0.23,0,0,0
Germanic:stg026_Sigtuna_,55.35,38.11,6.54,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0
Germanic:SZ11_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,45.71, 26.53,12.76,12.49,0,0,0,0.46,0.52,0.58,0.66,0,0.28
Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.25,26. 28,10.75,7.04,5.01,0,1.09,0,0,0.9,1.69,0,0
Germanic:SZ13_Hungary_Langobard_son.SZ24_father.SZ 7_brother.SZ22_1469_ybp,51.91,27.94,8.54,6.68,0,1. 86,0.46,0,0,1.6,0.7,0.3,0
Germanic:SZ14_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.24,21. 95,12.92,11.46,1.94,1.53,0,0,0,0.7,0.46,0,1.81
Germanic:SZ15_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,49.81, 25.15,10.68,7.88,0.66,1.04,2.67,1.49,0.62,0,0,0,0
Germanic:SZ16_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,48.77,31. 63,9.58,6.5,0,0,1.35,0,0.85,0.66,0.45,0,0.21
Germanic:SZ2_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,52.77,3 2.44,5.78,5.42,0.27,0,0,0,0.31,0.34,0.89,1.25,0.53
Germanic:SZ22_Longobard_,47.64,28.46,10.25,7.39,1. 26,0.36,1.8,0,0,0.17,2.66,0,0
Germanic:SZ30_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,50.05,22. 89,10.04,6.96,5.21,0.14,2.36,0.88,0,0.65,0.16,0,0. 66
Germanic:SZ4_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp,50.8,27 .85,9.46,7.27,0.17,0.52,2.02,0,1.24,0,0.66,0,0
Germanic:SZ41_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,50.62,30. 54,10.69,2.85,0,0,0,0,2.29,0.38,1.12,0,1.5
Germanic:SZ7_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,48.86,27.9 4,10.52,5.59,1.58,1.62,1.24,0,0.73,1.09,0.59,0,0.2 4
Germanic:SZ9_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,51.25,28.4 8,10.25,3.67,0.9,0.62,4.07,0,0.4,0.35,0,0,0
Germanic:urm035_Sigtuna_M_BCDE_h2a1c_,59.65,32.58, 7.76,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Germanic:vik_84001_Sweden_Viking.SG_989_ybp,48.64, 32.31,8.02,4.27,3.03,0,0,0,1.51,1.62,0.46,0,0.14
Germanic:vik_84035_Sweden_Viking_fail.due.to.high. heterozygosity.SG_1078_ybp,40.65,27.97,13.4,6.46,1 .32,1.56,2.09,0,2.89,1.06,0.74,0,1.86
Germanic:vik_grt035_Sweden_Viking.SG_996_ybp,53.09 ,24,12.1,6.14,0.74,1.43,0,0,0.51,1.16,0,0.83,0
Germanic:vik_kls001_Sweden_Viking.SG_900_ybp,49.93 ,31.75,6.98,0.05,4.03,1.05,0.71,0.04,2.75,0,1.08,0 .78,0.85
Germanic:vik_nuf002_Sweden_Viking.SG_900_ybp,46.55 ,27.91,9.45,2.83,7.96,0.75,1.16,0.36,0,0.82,1.04,1 .16,0
Germanic:vik_stg021_Sweden_Viking.SG_924_ybp,46.77 ,30.03,10.61,4.43,1.83,0.06,2.26,1.24,0.54,0.73,0. 18,1.18,0.16

Wow,a fantastic model, maybe best so far!

I think it's very realistic for me and Stears (I just added Turkic samples for him)

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 2.3156% / 2.31557371

55.1 Early_Slavic
32.4 Balkan_IA
12.5 Germanic

Target: Stears
Distance: 0.2045% / 0.20454026

50.2 Early_Slavic
19.6 Germanic
15.4 Roman_Middle_east
8.7 Balkan_IA
6.1 Turkic

[Dušan]

https://i.imgur.com/aKP0zvC.png

[vbnetkhio]

Target: i
Distance: 162.5141% / 1.62514097
62.8 Early_Slavic
32.2 Balkan_IA
5.0 Germanic

i think the germanic acts weird in this model. :D there's either zero or too much of it. feel free to edit the model.

[vbnetkhio]

...

[Kaspias]

I had to play with references to stabilize the result. Interesting enough.

Target: Kaspias
Distance: 2.0956% / 2.09557427 | ADC: 0.25x RC
28.2 Early_Slavic
26.5 Balkan_IA
23.9 Turkic
21.4 Roman_Middle_east

Target: Kaspias_dad
Distance: 2.1036% / 2.10356375 | ADC: 0.25x RC
53.3 Balkan_IA
36.8 Turkic
9.9 Roman_Middle_east

Target: Kaspias_mom_phased
Distance: 2.0829% / 2.08294503 | ADC: 0.25x RC
50.4 Early_Slavic
35.9 Roman_Middle_east
13.7 Balkan_IA

[vbnetkhio]

I had to play with references to stabilize the result. Interesting enough.


could you post your version of the references?

[Kaspias]

could you post your version of the references?

I did not save actually but there were just a few changes. I re-tagged Germanic as Balkan_IA but keep all Germanic populations. It is not likely in Thrace to have actual Germanic admixture, therefore I evaluated Germanic as a sign of Balkanic ancestry. Plus added these for the Turkic:


DA222_Kazakhstan_Karluk.SG_1100_ybp,4.94,10.15,1.0 7,23.37,3.74,0.24,7.81,14.77,30.12,2.05,0.44,0.10, 1.21
DA230_Kazakhstan_Karluk.SG_1100_ybp,9.14,9.82,0.00 ,20.60,3.24,3.16,7.31,18.95,24.40,1.38,0.44,0.00,1 .55
DA87_Kazakhstan_Kimak.SG_1262_ybp,7.65,17.51,0.00, 21.58,0.59,0.02,4.74,12.33,29.73,3.74,1.68,0.42,0. 00
MA2195_Anatolia_Ottoman1.SG_3800_ybp,6.20,11.13,1. 57,20.68,7.55,1.59,3.07,13.85,29.99,3.50,0.48,0.00 ,0.39
DA203_Kazakhstan_Karakhanid.SG_1000_ybp,4.19,11.56 ,0.00,19.56,7.30,0.00,6.79,16.71,29.01,4.42,0.46,0 .00,0.00
DA204_Kazakhstan_Karakhanid.SG_998_ybp,10.92,11.20 ,0.00,21.42,0.00,0.28,8.28,13.89,29.07,3.41,0.00,1 .23,0.30
DA205_Kazakhstan_Karakhanid.SG_1000_ybp,8.66,8.83, 0.00,15.05,3.93,0.00,6.86,20.40,31.37,2.74,0.67,0. 88,0.61
DA142_Russia_Nomad_Med.SG_1000_ybp,14.61,21.44,2.0 1,17.50,0.00,1.10,5.31,8.40,25.72,2.26,1.14,0.50,0 .00

[MandM]

Target: Milenko
Distance: 156.9968% / 1.56996796 | ADC: 0.25x RC
52.8 Balkan_IA
47.2 Early_Slavic

[vbnetkhio]

Target: Milenko
Distance: 156.9968% / 1.56996796 | ADC: 0.25x RC
52.8 Balkan_IA
47.2 Early_Slavic

try it without the adc

[Varda]

Bosnian Serb result.

https://i.ibb.co/7N4ZDsy/20200426-001840-2.jpg

[vbnetkhio]

this person's ancestors moved from Montenegro (Tepca (https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BF%D1%86%D0%B0), possibly some other places too) to Sijarina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sijarina), Southern Serbia, at the end of the 19th century. Then after WW2, most of the families from that village migrated to Srpski Miletic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srpski_Mileti%C4%87), in the northernmost part of Serbia.

Troughout all these migrations it was only families from Montenegro migrating together and intermarrying with each other, so she's actually still of fully Montnegrin ancestry.

Population
North_Atlantic 30.64 Pct
Baltic 22.99 Pct
West_Med 18.8 Pct
West_Asian 9.82 Pct
East_Med 15.37 Pct
Red_Sea 0.26 Pct
South_Asian 0.05 Pct
East_Asian 1.83 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.24 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[vbnetkhio]

A family from Banat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat), mostly Serbian, with some Romanian and Swabian ancestry.

North_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedRed_ SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOceanian Northeast_AfricanSub0Saharan
27.428.5816.449.6312.382.190.430.840.191.9000
23.9128.1118.878.8314.511.710.290.6102.700.470
31.1527.317.537.912.450.560.710.9501.390.0700

Unusual haplogroup, Q-L713 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L713/). The paternal line has a Serbian surname.

[vbnetkhio]

results from western Serbia (Zlatibor, Moravica, Kolubara)
haplogroup https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-A7993/

North_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedRed_ SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOceanian Northeast_AfricanSub0Saharan
19.8432.6416.279.0521.0200.140.190.540.32000
27.4528.1619.376.3416.510001.630.120.100.35
24.2329.4814.8111.4816.42.4400.630.20.32000
25.6630.317.185.5216.521.051.241.170.50.1200.40.3
22.3629.9419.5311.5413.0500.412.2200.870.0800

[Ayetooey]

Three samples of Serb-Americans with Dalmatian Serb roots. First one is niece? Of Nanich.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/836366771010797608/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/836373703611908187/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/836372777765830727/unknown.png

[Kaspias]

A family from Banat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat), mostly Serbian, with some Romanian and Swabian ancestry.

North_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedRed_ SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOceanian Northeast_AfricanSub0Saharan
27.428.5816.449.6312.382.190.430.840.191.9000
23.9128.1118.878.8314.511.710.290.6102.700.470
31.1527.317.537.912.450.560.710.9501.390.0700

Unusual haplogroup, Q-L713 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L713/). The paternal line has a Serbian surname.

I do wonder if these Serbs who are under L713 but from different regions match with each other or have a different haplotype? I'm trying to guess what population might bring it to the region but can not make a certain evaluation as I do not know the pre-Ottoman registers of Serbia. The clade's itself found in the medieval Turks, Avars from Hungary, Huns from various regions, either a Proto Bulgar or Avar from Bulgaria as well as having an origin from Iron Age Altay. Strong presence within Hungarians, Romanians, and Serbians may indicate more than one source for it -if haplotypes are diverse- or a strong connection with a particular group I mentioned previously.

[Varda]

I do wonder if these Serbs who are under L713 but from different regions match with each other or have a different haplotype? I'm trying to guess what population might bring it to the region but can not make a certain evaluation as I do not know the pre-Ottoman registers of Serbia. The clade's itself found in the medieval Turks, Avars from Hungary, Huns from various regions, either a Proto Bulgar or Avar from Bulgaria as well as having an origin from Iron Age Altay. Strong presence within Hungarians, Romanians, and Serbians may indicate more than one source for it -if haplotypes are diverse- or a strong connection with a particular group I mentioned previously.

Serb/Montenegrin tribe Bratonožići is Q1bL274>L275>F1213>M378>Y2016>L245>Y2209>FGC2020

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bratonožići

[vbnetkhio]

I do wonder if these Serbs who are under L713 but from different regions match with each other or have a different haplotype? I'm trying to guess what population might bring it to the region but can not make a certain evaluation as I do not know the pre-Ottoman registers of Serbia. The clade's itself found in the medieval Turks, Avars from Hungary, Huns from various regions, either a Proto Bulgar or Avar from Bulgaria as well as having an origin from Iron Age Altay. Strong presence within Hungarians, Romanians, and Serbians may indicate more than one source for it -if haplotypes are diverse- or a strong connection with a particular group I mentioned previously.

I couldn't find much info on the forum or website. It's found in Macedonia and Southern Serbia as well. So this man is more likely to originate from there (since that's where Vojvodina Serbs come from), and not from a Serbianized Hungarian or Romanian.
Maybe it has something to do with Kumanovo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumanovo#Etymology

[CommonSense]

A Serbian man from Srem. The kit is linked to his wikitree:






Kit KX9127447

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.47
2 East_Med 20.51
3 North_Atlantic 20.25
4 West_Med 17.62
5 West_Asian 8.98
6 Red_Sea 2.74
7 Amerindian 0.76
8 Siberian 0.48
9 Oceanian 0.12
10 Sub-Saharan 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 4.95
2 Romanian 5.87
3 Serbian 7.6
4 Moldavian 10.85
5 Greek_Thessaly 12.26
6 Croatian 13.51
7 Hungarian 14.84
8 Austrian 18.44
9 Tuscan 18.7
10 Central_Greek 19.23
11 North_Italian 19.28
12 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.48
13 Italian_Abruzzo 19.59
14 East_German 19.83
15 East_Sicilian 20.35
16 South_Polish 20.51
17 Ukrainian 20.53
18 West_Sicilian 20.56
19 Ashkenazi 21
20 Southwest_Russian 23.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.8% Greek_Thessaly + 34.2% Southwest_Russian @ 2.95
2 72% Greek_Thessaly + 28% Lithuanian @ 2.96
3 68.1% Greek_Thessaly + 31.9% Estonian_Polish @ 2.98
4 68.7% Greek_Thessaly + 31.3% Belorussian @ 3.15
5 57.2% Central_Greek + 42.8% Estonian_Polish @ 3.27
6 68% Greek_Thessaly + 32% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.3
7 66.3% Greek_Thessaly + 33.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.31
8 57.9% Ukrainian + 42.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.31
9 50.6% Ukrainian + 49.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.35
10 52% South_Italian + 48% Estonian_Polish @ 3.38
11 56.6% South_Italian + 43.4% Lithuanian @ 3.42
12 61.7% Central_Greek + 38.3% Lithuanian @ 3.42
13 55% Southwest_Russian + 45% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.55
14 55.8% East_Sicilian + 44.2% Estonian_Polish @ 3.55
15 63.3% Greek_Thessaly + 36.7% Ukrainian @ 3.57
16 57.9% Central_Greek + 42.1% Belorussian @ 3.59
17 50.6% Southwest_Russian + 49.4% South_Italian @ 3.6
18 60.3% East_Sicilian + 39.7% Lithuanian @ 3.62
19 52.7% Russian_Smolensk + 47.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.67
20 54.6% Central_Greek + 45.4% Southwest_Russian @ 3.68

[Varda]

I found one of your Bosansko Grahovo Serbian samples https://i.ibb.co/6N1mdS7/20200318-153619.jpg

His paternal ancestors settled in Grahovo from Strmica (in the second half of 19th century i think)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strmica,_Croatia
According to Aleksandar Bačko deeper origin of paternal line of family is from one island near Zadar from where they moved to Strmica in 18th century. They celebrate Đurđevdan and surname is quite specific. Surname was present in both places Strmica and Grahovo until 1995 (both places were full Serbian).

[Kaspias]

Serb/Montenegrin tribe Bratonožići is Q1bL274>L275>F1213>M378>Y2016>L245>Y2209>FGC2020

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bratonožići

Q-L275 is usually associated with Middle-East rather than Central Asia and found densely among Middle-Easterner groups, specifically Jews. On the other hand, Q-L713, Q-YP4004, Q-L330 which are also found among Serbs might show a pre-Ottoman Turkic connection. Do you know of these?

https://i.ibb.co/tP9bzF1/Ads-z.png





I couldn't find much info on the forum or website. It's found in Macedonia and Southern Serbia as well. So this man is more likely to originate from there (since that's where Vojvodina Serbs come from), and not from a Serbianized Hungarian or Romanian.
Maybe it has something to do with Kumanovo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumanovo#Etymology

This is great information! So can we consider all these I posted above have origin from Southern Serbia or some degree of assimilation of Hungarians and Romanians did also take place? Or there were native Serbs of the region?

Also, there is not only Kumanovo but also some other Cuman/Kipchak/Pecheneg toponyms in the region so indeed it is likely to be related to it.

[Dušan]

Maybe it has something to do with Kumanovo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumanovo#Etymology

There is village Kumane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumane), in Banat in northern Serbia.

[Varda]

Q-L275 is usually associated with Middle-East rather than Central Asia and found densely among Middle-Easterner groups, specifically Jews. On the other hand, Q-L713, Q-YP4004, Q-L330 which are also found among Serbs might show a pre-Ottoman Turkic connection. Do you know of these?

https://i.ibb.co/tP9bzF1/Ads-z.png






This is great information! So can we consider all these I posted above have origin from Southern Serbia or some degree of assimilation of Hungarians and Romanians did also take place? Or there were native Serbs of the region?

Also, there is not only Kumanovo but also some other Cuman/Kipchak/Pecheneg toponyms in the region so indeed it is likely to be related to it.

Cumans, Hungarians, Germans, Spaniards/Catalans etc. were mercenaries in Serbia in the time of Nemanjić dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Serbia#Medieval_Serbian_army

I found in Serbian sources that Serbian king Milutin in his army had 2000 Turcopole mercenaries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Milutin

One Kosovo Serb carry I2-Z113 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Z113/), he is most likely descendant of Catalan mercenary by direct paternal line.
Some Q among Serbs might be from Cuman mercenaries.

[Varda]

There is village Kumane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumane), in Banat in northern Serbia.

Monastery Kumanica is also named by Cumans http://www.panacomp.net/kumanica-monastery/

[vbnetkhio]

Q-L275 is usually associated with Middle-East rather than Central Asia and found densely among Middle-Easterner groups, specifically Jews. On the other hand, Q-L713, Q-YP4004, Q-L330 which are also found among Serbs might show a pre-Ottoman Turkic connection. Do you know of these?

https://i.ibb.co/tP9bzF1/Ads-z.png

This is great information! So can we consider all these I posted above have origin from Southern Serbia or some degree of assimilation of Hungarians and Romanians did also take place? Or there were native Serbs of the region?

Also, there is not only Kumanovo but also some other Cuman/Kipchak/Pecheneg toponyms in the region so indeed it is likely to be related to it.

Žambok is Hungarian, his roots are from Debrecen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debrecen) in Hungary, so he shouldn't have a close connection with the others. These k13 results I posted are of the Marković family. Djurovski and Šaranac are the Macedonian and South Serbian I mentioned. I assumed the last 3 are connected.

Hromček also isn't a Serb. He just said he's a catholic from Subotica, his family settled there around 1800, and the surname was originally Hromek. It's found among west Slavs and in Croatia.
Todor is only in the FTDNA Q project? He's more likely Todorov or Todorović, the "Todor" surname doesnt exist there.

Vojvodina Serbs mostly came from the wider South Serbian region between 1690 and 1740. There seems to have been a lot of identity switching between Serbs and Romanians in eastern Vojvodina, I found such people on gedmatch, so that's a real possibility. Other than that no. Serbs assimilating into Hungarians was much more likely.

I'm not talking about the recent times here. (after ww2), e.g. maybe this Hromček and Žambok consider themselves Serbs nowadays.

There were earlier waves of Serb setlement in Vojvodina, but i think they were all assimilated into Hungarians. I never heard of a Vojvodina Serb with roots there older than 1690. Maybe Varda will know more.

[CommonSense]

Žambok is Hungarian, his roots are from Debrecen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debrecen) in Hungary, so he shouldn't have a close connection with the others. These k13 results I posted are of the Marković family. Djurovski and Šaranac are the Macedonian and South Serbian I mentioned. I assumed the last 3 are connected.

Hromček also isn't a Serb. He just said he's a catholic from Subotica, his family settled there around 1800, and the surname was originally Hromek. It's found among west Slavs and in Croatia.
Todor is only in the FTDNA Q project? He's more likely Todorov or Todorović, the "Todor" surname doesnt exist there.

Vojvodina Serbs mostly came from the wider South Serbian region between 1690 and 1740. There seems to have been a lot of identity switching between Serbs and Romanians in eastern Vojvodina, I found such people on gedmatch, so that's a real possibility. Other than that no. Serbs assimilating into Hungarians was much more likely.

I'm not talking about the recent times here. (after ww2), e.g. maybe this Hromček and Žambok consider themselves Serbs nowadays.

There were earlier waves of Serb setlement in Vojvodina, but i think they were all assimilated into Hungarians. I never heard of a Vojvodina Serb with roots there older than 1690. Maybe Varda will know more.

Wouldn't Šaranac be one of those who descend from the people settled after 1878 in Toplica? It's a surname from Herzegovina, definitely not native anywhere else:

https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/03/26/poreklo-prezimena-saranac/

[Dušan]

There were earlier waves of Serb setlement in Vojvodina, but i think they were all assimilated into Hungarians. I never heard of a Vojvodina Serb with roots there older than 1690. Maybe Varda will know more.

Of course Vojvodina was settled by Serbs before 1690.
First large Serbian settlements in Srem and southern Banat were formed in 15th century, when Ottomans conquered Serbian despotate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Despotate).

After Mohač battle in 1526, when Ottomans conquered almost entire Pannonian basin, there was dominant Serbian population all across Srem, Banat and Bačka, in todays Vojvodina.
The best evidence of majority Serbian presence in todays Vojvodina in 16th century was Banat uprising (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_Banat) in 1594.


I dont know how much of todays native Vojvodina Serbs have roots from these earlier settlers, and how much from great migration in 1690.
The fact is that Serbs are in Vojvodina way before 1690.

[Varda]

..

[Varda]

Of course Vojvodina was settled by Serbs before 1690.
First large Serbian settlements in Srem and southern Banat were formed in 15th century, when Ottomans conquered Serbian despotate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Despotate).

After Mohač battle in 1526, when Ottomans conquered almost entire Pannonian basin, there was dominant Serbian population all across Srem, Banat and Bačka, in todays Vojvodina.
The best evidence of majority Serbian presence in todays Vojvodina in 16th century was Banat uprising (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_Banat) in 1594.


I dont know how much of todays native Vojvodina Serbs have roots from these earlier settlers, and how much from great migration in 1690.
The fact is that Serbs are in Vojvodina way before 1690.

Serbs in Vojvodina with roots there before 1690 are in minority, and most of that Serbs are present in Vojvodina since 16th century (Ottoman period).
Serbs from 15th century disappeared in Vojvodina. They migrated together with Hungarians towards the northwest in 1520s when Ottomans came, also some of them died of plagues and died of Ottoman invaders.
I heard around Sombor there is certain number of Serbian families for which exist evidences for presence there in 16th century.

[Dušan]

Serbs in Vojvodina with roots there before 1690 are in minority, and they are present in Vojvodina since 16th century (Ottoman period).
Serbs from 15th century disappeared in Vojvodina. They migrated together with Hungarians towards the northwest in 1520s when Ottomans came, also some of them died of plagues and died of Ottoman invaders.
I heard around Sombor there is certain number of Serbian families for which exist evidences for presence there in 16th century.

I think there are among native Vojvodina Serbs much more of these with roots in Vojvodina before 1690.

Why do I say that? Because after migrations of 1690, whole Banat and eastern part of Srem were still under Ottoman rule.
These areas were not settled in great migrations in 1690.

Austrians conquered these areas in 1718. and they found there Serbian population.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Eyalet_of_temesvar1699.png

[vbnetkhio]

Of course Vojvodina was settled by Serbs before 1690.
First large Serbian settlements in Srem and southern Banat were formed in 15th century, when Ottomans conquered Serbian despotate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Despotate).

After Mohač battle in 1526, when Ottomans conquered almost entire Pannonian basin, there was dominant Serbian population all across Srem, Banat and Bačka, in todays Vojvodina.
The best evidence of majority Serbian presence in todays Vojvodina in 16th century was Banat uprising (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_Banat) in 1594.


I dont know how much of todays native Vojvodina Serbs have roots from these earlier settlers, and how much from great migration in 1690.
The fact is that Serbs are in Vojvodina way before 1690.

I know. Srem was ruled by some Serbian kings before the Ottomans. There are also mentions of Serb individuals in Banat even before the Ottomans.

But Vojvodina Serbs all claim origins from the more recent migrations.

These oral traditions can be misleading. There is around 10% of n-p189.2 + j2b1 in native Vojvodina Serbs. I suppose it came from Krajina Serbs settling there during Habsburg Empire/Austria-Hungary? This is a significant percentage.

[Varda]

I think there are among native Vojvodina Serbs much more of these with roots in Vojvodina before 1690.

Why do I say that? Because after migrations of 1690, whole Banat and eastern part of Srem were still under Ottoman rule.
These areas were not settled in great migrations in 1690.

Austrians conquered these areas in 1718. and they found there Serbian population.

It's possible. Our mainsteam history see average native Vojvodinian Serb as descendant of settlers from Raška or Kosovo in 1690 with Čarnojević.
Sremac from Poreklo said that in Syrmia there is a small number of Serbs whose ancestors arrived in 1690. Most of them are in Syrmia before 1690 or they came from Krajina in 18th and 19th century (eastern part of Syrmia have a lot of Serbs with Krajina origin in 18th and 19th century - between Inđija and Zemun).

[Dušan]

I know. Srem was ruled by some Serbian kings before the Ottomans. There are also mentions of Serb individuals in Banat even before the Ottomans.

But Vojvodina Serbs all claim origins from the more recent migrations.

These oral traditions can be misleading. There is around 10% of n-p189.2 + j2b1 in native Vojvodina Serbs. I suppose it came from Krajina Serbs settling there during Habsburg Empire/Austria-Hungary? This is a significant percentage.

Yes, there were settling of Krajina Serbs from Lika, Dalmatia, Kordun in fertile areas of Vojvodina in 18th and 19th century.
These areas could not manage to feed the growing population, so one part of people moved to Srem, Bačka and Banat.

[Varda]

Yes, there were settling of Krajina Serbs from Lika, Dalmatia, Kordun in fertile areas of Vojvodina in 18th and 19th century.
These areas could not manage to feed the growing population, so one part of people moved to Srem, Bačka and Banat.

I know a lot of Sremci from eastern Syrmia whose ancestors came from northern Dalmatia and Lika roughly 1770-1900.
For example village Surduk was founded by Serbian settlers from these regions in 1770s. Surnames of native Surdučani are almost 100% Lika and northern Dalmatian.

[Kaspias]

Žambok is Hungarian, his roots are from Debrecen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debrecen) in Hungary, so he shouldn't have a close connection with the others. These k13 results I posted are of the Marković family. Djurovski and Šaranac are the Macedonian and South Serbian I mentioned. I assumed the last 3 are connected.

Hromček also isn't a Serb. He just said he's a catholic from Subotica, his family settled there around 1800, and the surname was originally Hromek. It's found among west Slavs and in Croatia.
Todor is only in the FTDNA Q project? He's more likely Todorov or Todorović, the "Todor" surname doesnt exist there.

Vojvodina Serbs mostly came from the wider South Serbian region between 1690 and 1740. There seems to have been a lot of identity switching between Serbs and Romanians in eastern Vojvodina, I found such people on gedmatch, so that's a real possibility. Other than that no. Serbs assimilating into Hungarians was much more likely.

I'm not talking about the recent times here. (after ww2), e.g. maybe this Hromček and Žambok consider themselves Serbs nowadays.

There were earlier waves of Serb setlement in Vojvodina, but i think they were all assimilated into Hungarians. I never heard of a Vojvodina Serb with roots there older than 1690. Maybe Varda will know more.

Djurovski, Šaranac and Marković are probably connected then. Note the hotspot in Southern Serbia, Northern Macedonia, and Western Bulgaria. There is also a Bulgarian from Radomir who is under L712 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/Q-L712//)and an F15008 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/Q-BZ181/)(F16045) is from Vratsa.

Yes, he is from Q project. Todor does not reply to me, so I do not know if it is his actual surname or just his name. Anyway, he matches with a Bulgarian(common ancestor in last 300 years) from Plovdiv whose village is in the skirts of the Central Balkan Mountains. The village was populated by Turks before Russo-Turkish War so his ancestor was not a native of the region. There is a register that mentions Bulgarians of that village came from Razlog, Blagoevgrad in the last 150 years. So even if it is not Razlog still should have origin from Western Bulgaria or even from Southern Serbia as they are somehow connected to the Todor from Svrljig.

[Dušan]

It's possible. Our mainsteam history see average native Vojvodinian Serb as descendant of settlers from Raška or Kosovo in 1690 with Čarnojević.
Sremac from Poreklo said that in Syrmia there is a small number of Serbs whose ancestors arrived in 1690. Most of them are in Syrmia before 1690 or they came from Krajina in 18th and 19th century (eastern part of Syrmia have a lot of Serbs with Krajina origin in 18th and 19th century - between Inđija and Zemun).

Eastern part of Srem and whole Banat were under Ottoman rule until 1718.
How could Serbs fleeing from Ottomans in migration 1690. settle these areas if these areas are still under Ottomans?

Simple logic says its not possible.

Yeah, I dislike that mainstream "Serbs are in Vojvodina since 1690."
No its not true.

There are Ottoman census defters who record Serbian majority presence in Vojvodina in 16th and 17th century. Even Hungarian historians admit that.

[vbnetkhio]

Djurovski, Šaranac and Marković are probably connected then. Note the hotspot in Southern Serbia, Northern Macedonia, and Western Bulgaria. There is also a Bulgarian from Radomir who is under L712 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/Q-L712//)and an F15008 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/Q-BZ181/)(F16045) is from Vratsa.

Yes, he is from Q project. Todor does not reply to me, so I do not know if it is his actual surname or just his name. Anyway, he matches with a Bulgarian(common ancestor in last 300 years) from Plovdiv whose village is in the skirts of the Central Balkan Mountains. The village was populated by Turks before Russo-Turkish War so his ancestor was not a native of the region. There is a register that mentions Bulgarians of that village came from Razlog, Blagoevgrad in the last 150 years. So even if it is not Razlog still should have origin from Western Bulgaria or even from Southern Serbia as they are somehow connected to the Todor from Svrljig.

Šaranac is apparently a recent settler from Herzegovina, so this complicates things further.
Many South Serbs claim origins from Kyustendil, and Blagoevgrad is close, so maybe both Todor and the Bulgarian came from there.

[Dušan]

It's possible. Our mainsteam history see average native Vojvodinian Serb as descendant of settlers from Raška or Kosovo in 1690 with Čarnojević.
Sremac from Poreklo said that in Syrmia there is a small number of Serbs whose ancestors arrived in 1690. Most of them are in Syrmia before 1690 or they came from Krajina in 18th and 19th century (eastern part of Syrmia have a lot of Serbs with Krajina origin in 18th and 19th century - between Inđija and Zemun).

Here is ethnic-religious map of Srem in 16th century during Ottoman rule.

https://i.imgur.com/TJnOPkC.png

Blue are Serbs, red are Croats and Hungarians - these red areas are mostly in todays Croatia. Green crescent are Muslim populated areas.

As you can see, a lot of toponymes that exist today in Srem, existed even nearly 500 years ago!

All Serbian Orthodox monasteries on Fruška gora are recorded. There were even 25 of them.

[Varda]

Here is ethnic-religious map of Srem in 16th century during Ottoman rule.

https://i.imgur.com/TJnOPkC.png

Blue are Serbs, red are Croats and Hungarians - these red areas are mostly in todays Croatia. Green crescent are Muslim populated areas.

As you can see, a lot of toponymes that exist today in Srem, existed even nearly 500 years ago!

All Serbian Orthodox monasteries on Fruška gora are recorded. There were even 25 of them.

An example of Srem Serb whose ancestors are in Srem long time before 1690 is Siniša Kovačević https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siniša_Kovačević
He say his cousin historian researched origin of family in many archives and determined they are present in Srem about 20 generations, their far origin is from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grahovo,_Nikšić

In 1690 Serbs settled in smaller part of present day Vojvodina, only in part of Bačka (plus in Baranja and western Hungary). Not in Syrmia, Banat and southern/eastern Bačka.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Great_serb_migration.png/1024px-Great_serb_migration.png

[Varda]

I think there are among native Vojvodina Serbs much more of these with roots in Vojvodina before 1690.

Why do I say that? Because after migrations of 1690, whole Banat and eastern part of Srem were still under Ottoman rule.
These areas were not settled in great migrations in 1690.

Austrians conquered these areas in 1718. and they found there Serbian population.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Eyalet_of_temesvar1699.png

On the map in my previous post is marked that Serbs in 1690 settled only in part of Bačka of present day Vojvodina. But it happened that large part of Serbs who in 1690 settled in present day Hungary was pushed towards the south in present day Vojvodina in uprising of Ferenc Rákóczi 1703-11. Serbian settlers were target of Rákóczi's revolutionary army, many of them moved to the south and some were killed.

[CommonSense]

Not sure where to put this since it's not a result from an ethnic Serbian individual, but since the general South Slavic DNA result thread was closed and I don't feel like opening a new thread just for this, here it goes:

Results of a catholic Montenegrin from the municipality of Bar. Her ancestors are from a community called Šestani near lake Skadar

23andMe:



https://i.redd.it/7jq1jq1miey61.jpg

https://i.redd.it/c13f6q1miey61.jpg



gedmatch:






K13 Admix Results:

North_Atlantic - 26.35

West_Med - 22.45

Baltic - 20.1

East_Med - 17.62

West_Asian - 8.23

Red_Sea - 2.87

Siberian - 1

Northeast_African - 0.85

Amerindian - 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

Romanian - 7.08

Bulgarian - 7.86

Serbian - 9.09

North_Italian - 9.43

Greek_Thessaly - 10.53

Tuscan - 11.01

Portuguese - 14.67

Italian_Abruzzo - 15.15

Spanish_Galicia - 15.22

Moldavian - 15.33

Spanish_Extremadura - 15.55

West_Sicilian - 15.64

Hungarian - 15.94

French - 16.12

Spanish_Cataluna - 16.36

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon - 16.75

Spanish_Murcia - 16.76

Austrian - 16.82

Spanish_Valencia - 16.89

Central_Greek - 16.92







6.64576557 Bosniak_Sandzak
7.05563605 Macedonian
7.09501233 Macedonian_South
7.15278967 Macedonian_North
7.23830781 Italian_Friuli_VG
7.28726286 Serb_Southern_Montenegro
7.87198831 Romania_Oltenia
7.88480818 Bulgaria_Southwestern
7.92438010 Albanian_Gheg
8.11046854 Italian_Veneto
8.22618381 Montenegrin
8.36950417 Romania_Crisana
8.38800930 Italian_Trentino
8.38814044 Romania_Transylvania
8.52274604 Torbesh_average
8.53754063 Romania_Wallachia
8.60890237 Romania_Banat
8.67317704 Bulgaria_average
8.67861740 Romania_Dobruja
8.73828358 Romania_Moldavia_South
8.75757386 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
8.80003977 Albanian
8.82338937 Romania_Muntenia
8.83100787 Romania_average
8.89710627 Bulgaria_Southcentral

[CommonSense]

....

[GalenStark]

....

Catholic Slavs in Southeast Montenegro are likely of Catholic Albanian origin. Sheshtani is majority Albanian. I have seen 23andme Albanians from Montenegro score similar. Any Gedmatch for them?

[CommonSense]

Catholic Slavs in Southeast Montenegro are likely of Catholic Albanian origin. Sheshtani is majority Albanian. I have seen 23andme Albanians from Montenegro score similar. Any Gedmatch for them?

The gedmatch is in the spoilers. No kit this time though, since I merely copied the results of a user from reddit who posted them. Those catholics from Šestani were probably originally Albanians who over time mixed with the local Slavs. At least her K13 results are half way between regular southern Montenegrins and Ghegs.

[GalenStark]

The gedmatch is in the spoilers. No kit this time though, since I merely copied the results of a user from reddit who posted them. Those catholics from Šestani were probably originally Albanians who over time mixed with the local Slavs. At least her K13 results are half way between regular southern Montenegrins and Ghegs.

True. She could also still be Slavic originally as well. I heard it is not out of the ordinary for some of the Albanian clans to take Slavic wives. Usually the wife converts to the husband's faith. At least from what I hear.

[RogueState]

The gedmatch is in the spoilers. No kit this time though, since I merely copied the results of a user from reddit who posted them. Those catholics from Šestani were probably originally Albanians who over time mixed with the local Slavs. At least her K13 results are half way between regular southern Montenegrins and Ghegs.

Montenegrin+Albanian mix = Sandzakian profile hehe

[vbnetkhio]

Catholic Slavs in Southeast Montenegro are likely of Catholic Albanian origin. Sheshtani is majority Albanian. I have seen 23andme Albanians from Montenegro score similar. Any Gedmatch for them?

here:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238790-Albanian-gedmatch-results&p=5036151&viewfull=1#post5036151

they have a bit higher Baltic than those from Kosovo and north Albania. recently one with 26% Baltic was posted on Anthrogenica.
Montenegrins/Serbs from this area usually don't have less than 22%, so this result Commonsense posted is a bit outside that range.

[CommonSense]

here:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238790-Albanian-gedmatch-results&p=5036151&viewfull=1#post5036151

they have a bit higher Baltic than those from Kosovo and north Albania. recently one with 26% Baltic was posted on Anthrogenica.
Montenegrins/Serbs from this area usually don't have less than 22%, so this result Commonsense posted is a bit outside that range.

Actually I think her results can fit into the range for Montenegrin Albos. They don't really seem like pure Ghegs based on this.

[vbnetkhio]

Actually I think her results can fit into the range for Montenegrin Albos. They don't really seem like pure Ghegs based on this.

I thought she had a bit too high NA, but I checked in my collection and there's one Albanian from Montenegro nearly identical to her.

A830498

alb_mont,26.38,20.56,18.98,8.25,20.75,3.57,0.00,0. 22,0.00,0.61,0.00,0.67,0.00

do Bar catholics declare as Croats or?

[CommonSense]

I thought she had a bit too high NA, but I checked in my collection and there's one Albanian from Montenegro nearly identical to her.

A830498

alb_mont,26.38,20.56,18.98,8.25,20.75,3.57,0.00,0. 22,0.00,0.61,0.00,0.67,0.00

do Bar catholics declare as Croats or?

I think only a small minority of them do. At least that's the conclusion which can be drawn upon looking at the demographic data. There were 3043 recorded catholics in Bar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar,_Montenegro#Religion) on the census of 2011, but only 254 Croats. On the other hand the Albanians of the municipality are mostly muslims, with only 45 recorded catholics (https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8_%D1%83_ %D0%A6%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%98_%D0%93%D0%BE%D1%80% D0%B8) among them.
So it's obvious that they overwhelmingly declare as Montenegrins. And that's how the woman whose results I posted described herself.

On the other hand, in Kotor, Tivat and Heceg Novi the situation is completely different and the larger part of the catholic community in those municipalities has been successfully croatised.

[CommonSense]

Serb with full ancestry from Herzegovina. He's paternally related to Vuk Drašković:





Kit AK8265884

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.34
2 North_Atlantic 27.19
3 West_Med 18.85
4 East_Med 14.93
5 West_Asian 8.09
6 Red_Sea 1.69
7 Siberian 1.16
8 Northeast_African 0.57
9 Oceanian 0.13
10 South_Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 3.24
2 Romanian 5.55
3 Bulgarian 7.97
4 Moldavian 8.28
5 Hungarian 9.17
6 Croatian 10
7 Austrian 11.42
8 East_German 13.03
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.64
10 West_German 16.05
11 North_Italian 16.12
12 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.59
13 French 16.76
14 South_Polish 16.95
15 South_Dutch 17.39
16 Ukrainian 17.74
17 Tuscan 18.2
18 Portuguese 18.96
19 Spanish_Galicia 19.17
20 Spanish_Cataluna 19.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.6% Ukrainian + 49.4% Tuscan @ 1.65
2 64.8% Croatian + 35.2% Tuscan @ 1.85
3 52.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 47.7% Tuscan @ 2.18
4 66.7% Moldavian + 33.3% North_Italian @ 2.24
5 94.4% Serbian + 5.6% Sardinian @ 2.28
6 55.9% Tuscan + 44.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49
7 61.2% Tuscan + 38.8% Lithuanian @ 2.49
8 91.6% Serbian + 8.4% Southwest_French @ 2.52
9 57.3% North_Italian + 42.7% Southwest_Russian @ 2.53
10 57.8% North_Italian + 42.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.54
11 51.8% South_Polish + 48.2% Tuscan @ 2.55
12 62.2% Croatian + 37.8% North_Italian @ 2.57
13 56.4% Tuscan + 43.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.57
14 53.1% Tuscan + 46.9% Polish @ 2.6
15 54.2% Tuscan + 45.8% Southwest_Russian @ 2.64
16 92.3% Serbian + 7.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.66
17 95% Serbian + 5% French_Basque @ 2.68
18 92.9% Serbian + 7.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.76
19 93.7% Serbian + 6.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.77
20 93% Serbian + 7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.77

[Jana]

On the other hand, in Kotor, Tivat and Heceg Novi the situation is completely different and the larger part of the catholic community in those municipalities has been successfully croatised.

Crostised? These towns have Croats since forever. Croatian saint Leopold Mandić is from Herceg Novi. These towns had nothing to do with Montenegro until post WW2.
Their culture, architecture and people are continuation of southern Croatia.

Herceg Novi today is settled with mountain Serbs, not even Montenegrins.

[CommonSense]

Crostised? These towns have Croats since forever. Croatian saint Leopold Mandić is from Herceg Novi. These towns had nothing to do with Montenegro until post WW2.
Their culture, architecture and people are continuation of southern Croatia.

Herceg Novi today is settled with mountain Serbs, not even Montenegrins.

Those towns have never been a part of any Croatian state, not even the one formed in 1941 :biggrin: On the other hand all of them were always part of and closely connected to the local Serbian principalities, most notably the kingdom of Raška. The cultural similarity with other coastal adriatic towns stems from the fact that they're all Slavic-speaking catholics. I'm sure those from Bar aren't particularly different either.

[Jana]

Those towns have never been a part of any Croatian state, not even the one formed in 1941 :biggrin: On the other hand all of them were always part of and closely connected to the local Serbian principalities, most notably the kingdom of Raška. The cultural similarity with other coastal adriatic towns stems from the fact that they're all Slavic-speaking catholics. I'm sure those from Bar aren't particularly different either.

It's a nonsense, Croats in Kotar Bay are well documented by sources foreign and domestic already in 16th and 17th century. One thing is certain, they are same people as are Croats in Dubrovnik region culturally and ethnically.
Neither did they ever felt connected to orthodox Slavs in the mountains.

Now you could to prove prove they descend from medieval Serbian tribes but that will be difficult since migration of Serbs on the Balkans is hardly provable with genetics.

[CommonSense]

It's a nonsense, Croats in Kotar Bay are well documented by sources foreign and domestic already in 16th and 17th century. One thing is certain, they are same people as are Croats in Dubrovnik region culturally and ethnically.
Neither did they ever felt connected to orthodox Slavs in the mountains.

Now you could to prove prove they descend from medieval Serbian tribes but that will be difficult since migration of Serbs on the Balkans is hardly provable with genetics.

Literally the only thing connecting them to Croats is the pseudohistorical claim that Doclea (Duklja) was part of a land called "Red Croatia". And do you really think these people always lived lived as catholics around the coast and have no connections to the hinterland? A simple Y-DNA or autosomal study could easily prove which claim is true. The catholics from Bar are also unanimously referred to as "Croats" in Croatian sources, but as we can see even the average Romanian is closer genetically :rolleyes:

[CommonSense]

....

[Jana]

Literally the only thing connecting them to Croats is the pseudohistorical claim that Doclea (Duklja) was part of a land called "Red Croatia". And do you really think these people always lived lived as catholics around the coast and have no connections to the hinterland? A simple Y-DNA or autosomal study could easily prove which claim is true. The catholics from Bar are also unanimously referred to as "Croats" in Croatian sources, but as we can see even the average Romanian is closer genetically :rolleyes:

Russian count Tolstoj who traveled east Adriatic coast in 17th century gave pretty detailed description of the area. Croats who were sailors lived in coastal towns while Serbs who led warrior lifestyle lived in the mountains above and were moving towards the coast, later adopting Croatian dress and customs. Autosomal study can't prove more than that they are mix of Slavs and Vlachs.

Problem with Serbs is that ydna of modern Serbs does not bear strong connections to east Germany and west of Czech Republic, so in my opinion Serbian tribe who came to Balkans wasn't big neither influential genetically.
Do modern Croats descend only from Croatian tribe? Ofcourse not.

But based on what we have so far, our ydna connection to the Carpathian region is very clear, while same can't be said for Serbs and their ancestral homeland.

[Dušan]

My match from Gedmatch.
Surname Dimić.

Димић – Дивосело, Госпић, Д. Лапац, Острвица, В. Попина, Прљево (Зрмања)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.19
2 West_Med 18.12
3 North_Atlantic 17.89
4 East_Med 17.69
5 West_Asian 9.71
6 Red_Sea 1.76
7 Oceanian 1.09
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.18


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 9.07
2 Bulgarian 9.27
3 Romanian 9.81
4 Serbian 10
5 Croatian 11.7
6 Hungarian 15.24
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.67
8 Greek_Thessaly 16.82
9 Ukrainian 17.59
10 South_Polish 18.22
11 Austrian 19.27
12 Southwest_Russian 19.78
13 East_German 20.04
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.05
15 Polish 21.07
16 Russian_Smolensk 22.1
17 Estonian_Polish 22.43
18 Tatar 23.19
19 Belorussian 23.27
20 Central_Greek 23.46


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.4% Ukrainian + 31.6% Cyprian @ 5.15
2 76.3% Bulgarian + 23.7% Erzya @ 5.71
3 62.7% Estonian_Polish + 37.3% Cyprian @ 5.72
4 54.5% Greek_Thessaly + 45.5% Southwest_Russian @ 5.74
5 54.9% Greek_Thessaly + 45.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.8
6 59.8% Greek_Thessaly + 40.2% Erzya @ 5.84
7 54% Central_Greek + 46% Lithuanian @ 5.84
8 54.6% Southwest_Russian + 45.4% Central_Greek @ 5.85
9 57.7% Lithuanian + 42.3% Cyprian @ 5.87
10 70% Ukrainian_Lviv + 30% Cyprian @ 5.88
11 62.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.9
12 62.9% Greek_Thessaly + 37.1% Lithuanian @ 5.9
13 71.7% Ukrainian + 28.3% Samaritan @ 5.94
14 72.6% Bulgarian + 27.4% Southwest_Russian @ 5.95
15 72.3% Ukrainian + 27.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.96
16 51.2% Estonian_Polish + 48.8% Central_Greek @ 5.99
17 63.1% Russian_Smolensk + 36.9% Cyprian @ 6
18 62.8% Southwest_Russian + 37.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.01
19 79.1% Bulgarian + 20.9% Lithuanian @ 6.02
20 73.1% Bulgarian + 26.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.04



Updated K13
Distance to: Dimić
7.34616226 Moldova_average
7.62430980 Serb_Serbia_South
7.68426314 Moldova_South
7.76853268 Moldova_Centre
8.11608280 Serb_Herzegovina
8.27299825 Serb
8.30440847 Serb_Serbia_Central
8.30767115 Serb_Bosnia
8.37197109 Bulgaria_Northwestern
8.50578627 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
8.53304166 Romania_Maramures
8.57709741 Bosniak
8.65015029 Serb_Croatia
8.80435688 Pomak_Bulgaria
8.98503756 Romania_Moldavia_North
9.00451553 Moldova_North
9.17427926 Romania_average
9.18822616 Romania_Banat
9.20201065 Montenegrin
9.22038502 Serb_Serbia_West
9.39061233 Pomak_Greece
9.56513983 Romania_Dobruja
9.56727234 Romania_Moldavia_South
9.76182872 Romania_Wallachia
9.78368540 Romania_Muntenia

[Leto]

My match from Gedmatch.
Surname Dimić.

Димић – Дивосело, Госпић, Д. Лапац, Острвица, В. Попина, Прљево (Зрмања)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.19
2 West_Med 18.12
3 North_Atlantic 17.89
4 East_Med 17.69
5 West_Asian 9.71
6 Red_Sea 1.76
7 Oceanian 1.09
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.18

The North Atlantic is incredibly low, well below 20%! Which company did he test with?

[vbnetkhio]

My match from Gedmatch.
Surname Dimić.

Димић – Дивосело, Госпић, Д. Лапац, Острвица, В. Попина, Прљево (Зрмања)


that's where his ancestry is from, or where the surname appears?

[Dušan]

The North Atlantic is incredibly low, well below 20%! Which company did he test with?

From Ancestry. Thats written on Gedmatch.


that's where his ancestry is from, or where the surname appears?

Villages where that surname appears.

[CommonSense]

From Ancestry. Thats written on Gedmatch.



Villages where that surname appears.

https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/02/16/dimi%c4%87/comment-page-2/#comments

It exits in all Serbian-inhabited lands. In fact, it's actually more common in Kosovo/Southern Serbia than in Lika. But since his Baltic score is so high and he's a close match of yours, he might as well be from one of those villages you listed.

[Dušan]

https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/02/16/dimi%c4%87/comment-page-2/#comments

It exits in all Serbian-inhabited lands. In fact, it's actually more common in Kosovo/Southern Serbia than in Lika. But since his Baltic score is so high and he's a close match of yours, he might as well be from one of those villages you listed.

I agree.

This person is very Slavic, despite of record low North Atlantic component.
Pre-Slavic part is probably very southern, Cypriot-like.


Your ancient K13:

Target: Dimić
Distance: 2.2006% / 2.20055846
68.9 Slavic
22.4 Paleo_Balkan
8.7 Eastern_Mediterranean



Stearsolina's ancient K13:

Target: Dimić
Distance: 2.3972% / 2.39719778
67.0 Slavic
33.0 Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman

[Jana]

I agree.

This person is very Slavic, despite of record low North Atlantic component.
Pre-Slavic part is probably very southern, Cypriot-like.


Your ancient K13:

Target: Dimić
Distance: 2.2006% / 2.20055846
68.9 Slavic
22.4 Paleo_Balkan
8.7 Eastern_Mediterranean



Stearsolina's ancient K13:

Target: Dimić
Distance: 2.3972% / 2.39719778
67.0 Slavic
33.0 Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman

^^^It's incorrect because Commonsense includes Myceneans in Paleo-Balkan, and Paleo-Balkan people in wider region were nothing like that genetically.
I'm probably more ancient Balkan than him in comparison, he is more Slavic and lot more Roman.

This person has actually rather low Illyrian-Thracian ancestry. He's very Slavic and very East Med.

[Jana]

The North Atlantic is incredibly low, well below 20%! Which company did he test with?

Similar like user Knez, he also has higher west med and low NA + high Baltic, but in his case it's explained by south Italian ancestry. Maybe people like this are more common than we think.

[Dušan]

^^^It's incorrect because Commonsense includes Myceneans in Paleo-Balkan, and Paleo-Balkan people in wider region were nothing like that genetically.
I'm probably more ancient Balkan than him in comparison, he is more Slavic and lot more Roman.

This person has actually rather low Illyrian-Thracian ancestry. He's very Slavic and very East Med.

Pre-Slavic part is very Roman indeed, vbnethios calculator:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?334757-Balkanic-Eastern-Europe-k13-calculators&p=6944010&viewfull=1#post6944010

Target: Dimić
Distance: 2.3436% / 2.34355843
65.0 Slavic
31.5 Roman
3.5 Iron_age_Balkan

[vbnetkhio]

has the most med shifted pre-Slavic part compared to 200 other Serb samples.
https://i.imgur.com/xJ5TFvx.png

[CommonSense]

Pre-Slavic part is very Roman indeed, vbnethios calculator:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?334757-Balkanic-Eastern-Europe-k13-calculators&p=6944010&viewfull=1#post6944010

Target: Dimić
Distance: 2.3436% / 2.34355843
65.0 Slavic
31.5 Roman
3.5 Iron_age_Balkan

If I remove those two Mycenean samples plus the one labeled as "Thraco-Cimmerian", I get more or less the same results, but the distance is somewhat larger:

Target: Dimić
Distance: 3.0113% / 3.01133240
65.0 Slavic
31.6 Eastern_Mediterranean
3.4 Paleo_Balkan

You should message the guy and ask him about his ancestry.

[Dick]

My match from Gedmatch.
Surname Dimić.

Димић – Дивосело, Госпић, Д. Лапац, Острвица, В. Попина, Прљево (Зрмања)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.19
2 West_Med 18.12
3 North_Atlantic 17.89
4 East_Med 17.69
5 West_Asian 9.71
6 Red_Sea 1.76
7 Oceanian 1.09
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.18


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 9.07
2 Bulgarian 9.27
3 Romanian 9.81
4 Serbian 10
5 Croatian 11.7
6 Hungarian 15.24
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.67
8 Greek_Thessaly 16.82
9 Ukrainian 17.59
10 South_Polish 18.22
11 Austrian 19.27
12 Southwest_Russian 19.78
13 East_German 20.04
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.05
15 Polish 21.07
16 Russian_Smolensk 22.1
17 Estonian_Polish 22.43
18 Tatar 23.19
19 Belorussian 23.27
20 Central_Greek 23.46


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.4% Ukrainian + 31.6% Cyprian @ 5.15
2 76.3% Bulgarian + 23.7% Erzya @ 5.71
3 62.7% Estonian_Polish + 37.3% Cyprian @ 5.72
4 54.5% Greek_Thessaly + 45.5% Southwest_Russian @ 5.74
5 54.9% Greek_Thessaly + 45.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.8
6 59.8% Greek_Thessaly + 40.2% Erzya @ 5.84
7 54% Central_Greek + 46% Lithuanian @ 5.84
8 54.6% Southwest_Russian + 45.4% Central_Greek @ 5.85
9 57.7% Lithuanian + 42.3% Cyprian @ 5.87
10 70% Ukrainian_Lviv + 30% Cyprian @ 5.88
11 62.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.9
12 62.9% Greek_Thessaly + 37.1% Lithuanian @ 5.9
13 71.7% Ukrainian + 28.3% Samaritan @ 5.94
14 72.6% Bulgarian + 27.4% Southwest_Russian @ 5.95
15 72.3% Ukrainian + 27.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.96
16 51.2% Estonian_Polish + 48.8% Central_Greek @ 5.99
17 63.1% Russian_Smolensk + 36.9% Cyprian @ 6
18 62.8% Southwest_Russian + 37.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.01
19 79.1% Bulgarian + 20.9% Lithuanian @ 6.02
20 73.1% Bulgarian + 26.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.04



Updated K13
Distance to: Dimić
7.34616226 Moldova_average
7.62430980 Serb_Serbia_South
7.68426314 Moldova_South
7.76853268 Moldova_Centre
8.11608280 Serb_Herzegovina
8.27299825 Serb
8.30440847 Serb_Serbia_Central
8.30767115 Serb_Bosnia
8.37197109 Bulgaria_Northwestern
8.50578627 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
8.53304166 Romania_Maramures
8.57709741 Bosniak
8.65015029 Serb_Croatia
8.80435688 Pomak_Bulgaria
8.98503756 Romania_Moldavia_North
9.00451553 Moldova_North
9.17427926 Romania_average
9.18822616 Romania_Banat
9.20201065 Montenegrin
9.22038502 Serb_Serbia_West
9.39061233 Pomak_Greece
9.56513983 Romania_Dobruja
9.56727234 Romania_Moldavia_South
9.76182872 Romania_Wallachia
9.78368540 Romania_Muntenia

Is the the one with the same y-DNA as Dima, an Albanian that posted here

[Jana]

not sure if posted before, Serb from Lika/Dalmatia (has GEDCOM), my mother's match

MP5584199

Admix Results (sorted):

1 North_Atlantic 30.92
2 Baltic 26.69
3 West_Med 17.93
4 East_Med 13.87
5 West_Asian 6.81
6 Oceanian 1.36
7 South_Asian 1.29
8 Red_Sea 0.62
9 Siberian 0.42
10 East_Asian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

1 Serbian 5.26
2 Hungarian 7.61
3 Romanian 8.34
4 Austrian 8.6
5 Moldavian 9.71
6 Croatian 10.38
7 East_German 10.39
8 Bulgarian 11
9 West_German 12.54
10 French 13.75
11 South_Dutch 13.97
12 North_Italian 15.87
13 South_Polish 16.38
14 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.62
15 Portuguese 17.24
16 Spanish_Galicia 17.46
17 Spanish_Cataluna 17.69
18 Ukrainian 17.69
19 North_German 17.79
20 Greek_Thessaly 17.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 50.8% North_Italian + 49.2% South_Polish @ 2.04
2 60% North_Italian + 40% Belorussian @ 2.42
3 59.2% North_Italian + 40.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49
4 58% North_Italian + 42% Southwest_Russian @ 2.5
5 64.2% North_Italian + 35.8% Lithuanian @ 2.54
6 52.8% North_Italian + 47.2% Ukrainian @ 2.57
7 58.5% North_Italian + 41.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.62
8 59.7% North_Italian + 40.3% Estonian_Polish @ 2.64
9 56% North_Italian + 44% Polish @ 2.65
10 63.9% East_German + 36.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.72
11 84.8% Hungarian + 15.2% Sardinian @ 2.75
12 51.2% North_Italian + 48.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.81
13 68.9% Hungarian + 31.1% North_Italian @ 2.85
14 61% Croatian + 39% North_Italian @ 2.88
15 67.3% Moldavian + 32.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.88
16 65.3% Moldavian + 34.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.96
17 53.7% South_Polish + 46.3% Tuscan @ 2.97
18 62.9% North_Italian + 37.1% Estonian @ 3.06
19 77.3% East_German + 22.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.13
20 88.5% Serbian + 11.5% French_Basque @ 3.16

[CommonSense]

not sure if posted before, Serb from Lika/Dalmatia (has GEDCOM), my mother's match

MP5584199

Admix Results (sorted):

1 North_Atlantic 30.92
2 Baltic 26.69
3 West_Med 17.93
4 East_Med 13.87
5 West_Asian 6.81
6 Oceanian 1.36
7 South_Asian 1.29
8 Red_Sea 0.62
9 Siberian 0.42
10 East_Asian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

1 Serbian 5.26
2 Hungarian 7.61
3 Romanian 8.34
4 Austrian 8.6
5 Moldavian 9.71
6 Croatian 10.38
7 East_German 10.39
8 Bulgarian 11
9 West_German 12.54
10 French 13.75
11 South_Dutch 13.97
12 North_Italian 15.87
13 South_Polish 16.38
14 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.62
15 Portuguese 17.24
16 Spanish_Galicia 17.46
17 Spanish_Cataluna 17.69
18 Ukrainian 17.69
19 North_German 17.79
20 Greek_Thessaly 17.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 50.8% North_Italian + 49.2% South_Polish @ 2.04
2 60% North_Italian + 40% Belorussian @ 2.42
3 59.2% North_Italian + 40.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49
4 58% North_Italian + 42% Southwest_Russian @ 2.5
5 64.2% North_Italian + 35.8% Lithuanian @ 2.54
6 52.8% North_Italian + 47.2% Ukrainian @ 2.57
7 58.5% North_Italian + 41.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.62
8 59.7% North_Italian + 40.3% Estonian_Polish @ 2.64
9 56% North_Italian + 44% Polish @ 2.65
10 63.9% East_German + 36.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.72
11 84.8% Hungarian + 15.2% Sardinian @ 2.75
12 51.2% North_Italian + 48.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.81
13 68.9% Hungarian + 31.1% North_Italian @ 2.85
14 61% Croatian + 39% North_Italian @ 2.88
15 67.3% Moldavian + 32.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.88
16 65.3% Moldavian + 34.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.96
17 53.7% South_Polish + 46.3% Tuscan @ 2.97
18 62.9% North_Italian + 37.1% Estonian @ 3.06
19 77.3% East_German + 22.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.13
20 88.5% Serbian + 11.5% French_Basque @ 3.16

That kit hasn't been posted before, but vbnetkhio posted several other ones uploaded with that email address, including the one of Krcun's daughter.

[Jana]

That kit hasn't been posted before, but vbnetkhio posted several other ones uploaded with that email address, including the one of Krcun's daughter.

His north Atlantic is very high!

[vbnetkhio]

not sure if posted before, Serb from Lika/Dalmatia (has GEDCOM), my mother's match

MP5584199

Admix Results (sorted):

1 North_Atlantic 30.92
2 Baltic 26.69
3 West_Med 17.93
4 East_Med 13.87
5 West_Asian 6.81
6 Oceanian 1.36
7 South_Asian 1.29
8 Red_Sea 0.62
9 Siberian 0.42
10 East_Asian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

1 Serbian 5.26
2 Hungarian 7.61
3 Romanian 8.34
4 Austrian 8.6
5 Moldavian 9.71
6 Croatian 10.38
7 East_German 10.39
8 Bulgarian 11
9 West_German 12.54
10 French 13.75
11 South_Dutch 13.97
12 North_Italian 15.87
13 South_Polish 16.38
14 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.62
15 Portuguese 17.24
16 Spanish_Galicia 17.46
17 Spanish_Cataluna 17.69
18 Ukrainian 17.69
19 North_German 17.79
20 Greek_Thessaly 17.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 50.8% North_Italian + 49.2% South_Polish @ 2.04
2 60% North_Italian + 40% Belorussian @ 2.42
3 59.2% North_Italian + 40.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49
4 58% North_Italian + 42% Southwest_Russian @ 2.5
5 64.2% North_Italian + 35.8% Lithuanian @ 2.54
6 52.8% North_Italian + 47.2% Ukrainian @ 2.57
7 58.5% North_Italian + 41.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.62
8 59.7% North_Italian + 40.3% Estonian_Polish @ 2.64
9 56% North_Italian + 44% Polish @ 2.65
10 63.9% East_German + 36.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.72
11 84.8% Hungarian + 15.2% Sardinian @ 2.75
12 51.2% North_Italian + 48.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.81
13 68.9% Hungarian + 31.1% North_Italian @ 2.85
14 61% Croatian + 39% North_Italian @ 2.88
15 67.3% Moldavian + 32.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.88
16 65.3% Moldavian + 34.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.96
17 53.7% South_Polish + 46.3% Tuscan @ 2.97
18 62.9% North_Italian + 37.1% Estonian @ 3.06
19 77.3% East_German + 22.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.13
20 88.5% Serbian + 11.5% French_Basque @ 3.16

the gedcoms are mixed up on that account, that's the gedcom of his mother. he's actually half from Lika/Dalmatia and half from Kolašin, Montenegro, so I didn't post him, because regionally mixed results are not too interesting.

[Jana]

the gedcoms are mixed up on that account, that's the gedcom of his mother. he's actually half from Lika/Dalmatia and half from Kolašin, Montenegro, so I didn't post him, because regionally mixed results are not too interesting.

Well in this case it's even more interesting because he is very central Euro shifted for somebody who is half Montenegrin. How do you explain that? Closer to Hungarian than Romanian average and closer to Austrian than Moldovan.

[vbnetkhio]

Well in this case it's even more interesting because he is very central Euro shifted for somebody who is half Montenegrin. How do you explain that? Closer to Hungarian than Romanian average and closer to Austrian than Moldovan.

this is one of the Montenegrin academic samples:


mne,29.92,25.10,15.34,10.10,14.21,1.66,0.38,0.92,1 .68,0.56,0.14,0.00,0.00

it's just a little bit more "southern".

[Jana]

this is one of the Montenegrin academic samples:


mne,29.92,25.10,15.34,10.10,14.21,1.66,0.38,0.92,1 .68,0.56,0.14,0.00,0.00

it's just a little bit more "southern".

Ok, but I still don't understand what is causing such high NA, Germanic medieval influence? I doubt it's from Illyrians because they were diluted by mixing with east Meds/Romans.

[vbnetkhio]

Ok, but I still don't understand what is causing such high NA, Germanic medieval influence? I doubt it's from Illyrians because they were diluted by mixing with east Meds/Romans.

Illyrians could've had around 30 NA on average judging from these 2:

I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12.62,23.19, 10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0
R1_Abruzzo_Teramo_Late_Bronze_Age_Italy,28.96,13.5 9,21.58,9.88,19.66,3.43,0.00,0.00,1.43,0.99,0.48,0 .00,0.00

late Roman West Balkanians probably had around 25 on average, individual range 20-30. Slavs had a very similar range to this as well.

[Dušan]

Well, K12b is not very different than K13.

PCA plot with European averages, and my result.
Post your result if you want to be added in pca plot.

https://i.imgur.com/T7Gxy8I.png

[knez01]

Well, K12b is not very different than K13.

PCA plot with European averages, and my result.
Post your result if you want to be added in pca plot.

https://i.imgur.com/T7Gxy8I.png
Here is mine Dušan, knez01(Croatian),3.88,0.54,0,0.63,26.27,40.57,0,0, 5.66,0.29,21.85,0.32

[Dušan]

Here is mine Dušan, knez01(Croatian),3.88,0.54,0,0.63,26.27,40.57,0,0, 5.66,0.29,21.85,0.32

You plot way closer to Serb than to Croat average.

https://i.imgur.com/KQVm1Qu.png

[knez01]

You plot way closer to Serb than to Croat average.

https://i.imgur.com/KQVm1Qu.png

Yeah, on k15 and k36 Eurogenes I get Serbia as my closest plot, usually a bit more northern than the Serb average but still the closest. My cousins from Zadar plot similarly to me, usually a bit more western but still next to the Serbian average. I noticed that my fathers side which is Dalmatian/Herzegovina mixed plots much more northern (I can't test my father but I use my cousins as a reference).

[Leto]

Are you using this new Croat average?


Croat,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3. 41,0.14,17.70,0

[Dušan]

Are you using this new Croat average?


Croat,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3. 41,0.14,17.70,0


Yes




Albanian,4.88,0.29,1.26,0.06,28.96,23.97,0.21,0,8. 54,0.29,31.43,0.12
Belorussian,3.42,1.19,0.12,0.14,22.42,58.62,0.69,0 .00,1.47,0.08,11.78,0.06
Croat,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3. 41,0.14,17.70,0
Czech,5.06,0.50,0.39,0.21,29.22,49.34,0.57,0.03,1. 98,0.06,12.58,0.07
Danish,8.05,0.21,0.12,0.12,35.84,49.66,0.34,0.02,0 .25,0.02,5.38,0
Dutch,7.90,0.52,0.81,0.35,35.72,44.39,0.67,0.52,0. 97,0.22,7.41,0.53
English,8.95,0.25,0.35,0.02,38.64,43.42,0.21,0.07, 0.83,0.03,7.11,0.04
Estonian,2.49,3.11,0,0.16,21.83,63.85,1.85,0,0.59, 0,6.12,0
French,7.91,0.00,0.20,0.00,44.44,36.54,0.00,0.00,2 .50,0.00,8.41,0.00
German,7.00,0.40,0.44,0.15,32.35,48.46,0.33,0.13,1 .53,0,9.04,0.16
Greek_Athens,5.40,0.38,1.46,0.27,26.85,20.60,0.16, 0.13,10.50,0.34,33.64,0.25
Hungarians,4.10,0.70,0.00,0.00,27.00,48.40,0.30,0. 00,3.00,0.30,16.20,0.00
Irish,10.61,0.23,0.04,0.08,39.18,44.62,0.14,0.01,0 .23,0.03,4.74,0.02
Italian_Lazio,6.73,0,2.67,0.05,31.7,19.82,0.26,0.0 7,9.79,0.17,28.75,0
Latvian,2.96,0.71,0,0.14,19.29,68.50,0.70,0.12,0.4 4,0.15,6.98,0
Lithuanian,2.24,0.79,0.04,0.04,20.54,66.73,0.76,0. 06,0.49,0.15,8.15,0
Moldovan,5.31,1.08,0.83,0.37,24.76,39.15,0.57,0.03 ,5.22,0.66,21.97,0.06
Polish,3.72,0.69,0.16,0.18,25.28,56.52,0.44,0.10,1 .67,0.06,11.17,0
Romanian,5.2,0.95,0.63,0.24,26.92,34.25,0.39,0,6.2 3,0.49,24.68,0
Russian,3.41,1.93,0.32,0.27,20.72,57.73,0.49,0.09, 1.63,0,13.41,0
Scottish,10.25,0.19,0.21,0.16,38.53,44.21,0.23,0.0 1,0.40,0.03,5.73,0
Serb,4.73,0.79,0.53,0.24,27.31,39.08,0.38,0.04,5.1 3,0.20,21.57,0.01
Slovak,5.18,0.73,0.28,0.26,26.53,50.32,0.60,0.03,2 .66,0.21,13.18,0
Slovenian,4.70,0.44,0.22,0.26,28.92,45.97,0.22,0.0 6,3.18,0.10,15.90,0
Spanish_Castilla-Leon,5.43,0,4.31,0.20,45.13,25.39,0.22,0.24,5.29,0 .13,13.30,0.35
Swedish,7.80,0.74,0.05,0.09,34.23,51.06,0.25,0,0.5 3,0.04,5.19,0
Ukrainian,3.75,1.29,0.31,0.51,22.43,55.65,0.56,0.0 8,2.08,0.18,13.01,0.16

[Leto]

That Russian is not my average. Use this one:


Russian,4.18,4.88,0.14,0.28,20.22,57.75,0.91,0.03, 0.96,0.79,9.83,0.04


The Hungarian is also old


Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.0 4,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02

[MandM]

Well, K12b is not very different than K13.

PCA plot with European averages, and my result.
Post your result if you want to be added in pca plot.

https://i.imgur.com/T7Gxy8I.png

Could you se were i and wify Plot on the PCA
Milenko,5.29,0.73,0.98,0,25.94,37.56,1.54,0,0.79,0 ,22.17,0
MilenkoWife,3.03,0.32,1.23,0,27.98,40.04,0,0,5.1,0 ,22.3,0

[Dušan]

Could you se were i and wify Plot on the PCA
Milenko,5.29,0.73,0.98,0,25.94,37.56,1.54,0,0.79,0 ,22.17,0
MilenkoWife,3.03,0.32,1.23,0,27.98,40.04,0,0,5.1,0 ,22.3,0

You both are very close to national average, and very close to each other.


Russian and Hungarian averages updated.

https://i.imgur.com/kTC36FP.png

[Jana]

Could you plot us?


Stearsolina,5.57,0.73,0,0.26,27.66,44.91,0,0,2.87, 0,18,0
Stears,6.15,2.05,0.96,0,23.77,44.63,1.32,0.29,3.50 ,0.18,17.15,0

[Dušan]

Could you plot us?


Stearsolina,5.57,0.73,0,0.26,27.66,44.91,0,0,2.87, 0,18,0
Stears,6.15,2.05,0.96,0,23.77,44.63,1.32,0.29,3.50 ,0.18,17.15,0

You are very close to Croat average, while Stears is not so much to Hungarian.

https://i.imgur.com/25y3SpW.png

[Leto]

Can you also change these references?


Belarusian_Minsk,3.66,1.23,0.33,0.17,21.95,59.69,1 .07,0.03,1.02,0.11,10.70,0.05
Belgian,7.56,0.17,0.66,0.09,37.35,40.90,0.43,0.10, 2.17,0.12,10.34,0.06
Bulgarian_Central,5.51,0.56,0.83,0.18,25.81,32.76, 0.34,0.08,7.2,0.28,26.43,0.02
Dutch,7.72,0.41,0.19,0.19,35.65,44.85,0.70,0.16,0. 63,0.06,9.35,0.10
French_Northeast,7.49,0.34,1.30,0.10,38.30,37.06,0 .11,0.13,3.53,0.20,11.19,0.25
Moldovan_Central,5.01,0.95,0.83,0.26,24.94,40.17,0 .77,0.00,4.96,0.89,21.17,0.04

[Dušan]

Can you also change these references?


Belarusian_Minsk,3.66,1.23,0.33,0.17,21.95,59.69,1 .07,0.03,1.02,0.11,10.70,0.05
Belgian,7.56,0.17,0.66,0.09,37.35,40.90,0.43,0.10, 2.17,0.12,10.34,0.06
Bulgarian_Central,5.51,0.56,0.83,0.18,25.81,32.76, 0.34,0.08,7.2,0.28,26.43,0.02
Dutch,7.72,0.41,0.19,0.19,35.65,44.85,0.70,0.16,0. 63,0.06,9.35,0.10
French_Northeast,7.49,0.34,1.30,0.10,38.30,37.06,0 .11,0.13,3.53,0.20,11.19,0.25
Moldovan_Central,5.01,0.95,0.83,0.26,24.94,40.17,0 .77,0.00,4.96,0.89,21.17,0.04


Here:

https://i.imgur.com/JH3hNA7.png

I am trying to make ethnic-national averages, without regional.
But it is lack for Italy, Greece, Spain.

Central Moldovan and central Bulgarian are considered simply Moldovan and Bulgarian.



Albanian,4.88,0.29,1.26,0.06,28.96,23.97,0.21,0,8. 54,0.29,31.43,0.12
Belgian,7.56,0.17,0.66,0.09,37.35,40.90,0.43,0.10, 2.17,0.12,10.34,0.06
Belarusian,3.66,1.23,0.33,0.17,21.95,59.69,1.07,0. 03,1.02,0.11,10.70,0.05
Bulgarian,5.51,0.56,0.83,0.18,25.81,32.76,0.34,0.0 8,7.2,0.28,26.43,0.02
Croat,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3. 41,0.14,17.70,0
Czech,5.06,0.50,0.39,0.21,29.22,49.34,0.57,0.03,1. 98,0.06,12.58,0.07
Danish,8.05,0.21,0.12,0.12,35.84,49.66,0.34,0.02,0 .25,0.02,5.38,0
Dutch,7.72,0.41,0.19,0.19,35.65,44.85,0.70,0.16,0. 63,0.06,9.35,0.10
English,8.91,0.26,0.35,0.02,38.59,43.44,0.20,0.08, 0.86,0.04,7.16,0.03
Estonian,2.49,3.11,0,0.16,21.83,63.85,1.85,0,0.59, 0,6.12,0
French,7.49,0.34,1.30,0.10,38.30,37.06,0.11,0.13,3 .53,0.20,11.19,0.25
German,7.00,0.40,0.44,0.15,32.35,48.46,0.33,0.13,1 .53,0,9.04,0.16
Greek_Athens,5.40,0.38,1.46,0.27,26.85,20.60,0.16, 0.13,10.50,0.34,33.64,0.25
Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.0 4,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02
Irish,10.60,0.28,0.05,0.04,39.14,44.43,0.21,0.03,0 .08,0.02,5.06,0.01
Italian_Lazio,6.73,0,2.67,0.05,31.7,19.82,0.26,0.0 7,9.79,0.17,28.75,0
Latvian,2.96,0.71,0,0.14,19.29,68.50,0.70,0.12,0.4 4,0.15,6.98,0
Lithuanian,2.24,0.79,0.04,0.04,20.54,66.73,0.76,0. 06,0.49,0.15,8.15,0
Moldovan,5.01,0.95,0.83,0.26,24.94,40.17,0.77,0.00 ,4.96,0.89,21.17,0.04
Polish,3.72,0.69,0.16,0.18,25.28,56.52,0.44,0.10,1 .67,0.06,11.17,0
Romanian,5.2,0.95,0.63,0.24,26.92,34.25,0.39,0,6.2 3,0.49,24.68,0
Russian,4.18,4.88,0.14,0.28,20.22,57.75,0.91,0.03, 0.96,0.79,9.83,0.04
Scottish,10.19,0.22,0.19,0.12,38.52,44.22,0.22,0.0 1,0.47,0.03,5.74,0.00
Serb,4.73,0.79,0.53,0.24,27.31,39.08,0.38,0.04,5.1 3,0.20,21.57,0.01
Slovak,5.18,0.73,0.28,0.26,26.53,50.32,0.60,0.03,2 .66,0.21,13.18,0
Slovenian,4.70,0.44,0.22,0.26,28.92,45.97,0.22,0.0 6,3.18,0.10,15.90,0
Spanish_Castilla-Leon,5.43,0,4.31,0.20,45.13,25.39,0.22,0.24,5.29,0 .13,13.30,0.35
Swedish,7.80,0.74,0.05,0.09,34.23,51.06,0.25,0,0.5 3,0.04,5.19,0
Ukrainian,3.75,1.29,0.31,0.51,22.43,55.65,0.56,0.0 8,2.08,0.18,13.01,0.16

[Leto]

Yeah, I got your idea. Shit, I forgot Portuguese and Icelandic. I assume you excluded Macedonian, Bosnian & Montenegrin on purpose.

[Leto]

Bosnian,4.81,0.53,0.39,0.12,25.91,42.79,0.74,0.03, 4.67,0.07,19.92,0.01
Icelandic,9.57,0.48,0.16,0.06,36.34,47.89,0.29,0,0 .15,0.05,5.01,0
Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje,4.54,0.36,0.68,0.21,27.65,31.03,0.08,0.02,7 .28,0.21,27.89,0.05
Montenegrin,4.84,0.61,0.57,0.09,27.95,35.96,0.21,0 .02,5.98,0.15,23.62,0.01
Portuguese,4.73,0.15,6.25,0.11,41.65,25.58,0.29,0. 83,5.78,0.19,13.34,1.10

[Dušan]

Bosnian,4.81,0.53,0.39,0.12,25.91,42.79,0.74,0.03, 4.67,0.07,19.92,0.01
Icelandic,9.57,0.48,0.16,0.06,36.34,47.89,0.29,0,0 .15,0.05,5.01,0
Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje,4.54,0.36,0.68,0.21,27.65,31.03,0.08,0.02,7 .28,0.21,27.89,0.05
Montenegrin,4.84,0.61,0.57,0.09,27.95,35.96,0.21,0 .02,5.98,0.15,23.62,0.01
Portuguese,4.73,0.15,6.25,0.11,41.65,25.58,0.29,0. 83,5.78,0.19,13.34,1.10


https://i.imgur.com/BJzubsA.png

[Leto]

These two are interesting


BalkanX,6.61,0.69,0,0,27.71,43.08,1.42,0,3.35,0,17 .14,0
Ford,2.96,1.46,0.41,0,26.71,43,0,0,4.76,0.05,20.66 ,0

[Dušan]

Idont like that Bosniak average because I got it closest, but it proves their Serb origin.

Distance to: Dušan
3.15838566 Bosniak
3.65034245 Moldovan
3.77189607 Serb
5.62389545 Croat
7.10482934 Montenegrin
7.67639890 Hungarian
7.68753537 Slovenian
8.92643826 Romanian
11.26346749 Bulgarian
12.21644384 Slovak
12.32342485 Czech
13.23736756 N.Macedonian
15.95412799 German
16.30242313 Belgian
16.45566772 Dutch
16.91483964 Ukrainian
16.99882643 French
18.21256160 Polish
19.88616856 English
21.06379595 Swedish
21.10580489 Danish
21.25271747 Albanian
21.32985701 Russian
21.40949789 Scottish
21.42955203 Icelandic
21.62141993 Belarusian
22.46777693 Irish
24.57478993 Portuguese
24.91874796 Italian_Lazio
25.55218386 Greek_Athens
26.61094512 Spanish_Castilla-Leon
27.64459622 Estonian
29.15410091 Lithuanian
31.47132981 Latvian


Target: Dušan
Distance: 2.4534% / 2.45340965 | ADC: 0.25x RC
91.0 Serb
9.0 Lithuanian


Distance to: Dušan
2.28855020 58.00% N.Macedonian + 42.00% Polish
2.36733953 18.80% Lithuanian + 81.20% Montenegrin
2.37227818 37.80% Belarusian + 62.20% N.Macedonian
2.38863239 50.40% Albanian + 49.60% Belarusian
2.39325315 32.00% Estonian + 68.00% N.Macedonian
2.42286464 23.80% Belarusian + 76.20% Montenegrin
2.43921860 46.00% Albanian + 54.00% Polish
2.44282916 71.40% Montenegrin + 28.60% Ukrainian
2.45340965 9.00% Lithuanian + 91.00% Serb
2.49797703 56.20% N.Macedonian + 43.80% Ukrainian
2.49986631 85.60% Serb + 14.40% Ukrainian
2.50223283 11.60% Belarusian + 88.40% Serb
2.50447566 17.40% Latvian + 82.60% Montenegrin
2.50460611 58.00% Albanian + 42.00% Lithuanian
2.51692100 8.20% Latvian + 91.80% Serb
2.52820975 31.00% Lithuanian + 69.00% N.Macedonian
2.53009382 44.20% Albanian + 55.80% Ukrainian
2.59039054 11.40% Russian + 88.60% Serb
2.59130647 19.40% Estonian + 80.60% Montenegrin
2.59304939 9.00% Estonian + 91.00% Serb
2.61562093 56.60% Albanian + 43.40% Estonian
2.62645784 22.80% Lithuanian + 77.20% Romanian
2.62871810 13.00% Polish + 87.00% Serb
2.64521254 32.20% Polish + 67.80% Romanian
2.65490764 72.40% Croat + 27.60% N.Macedonian


Slightly more East European shifted, the same as K13.

[Leto]

Idont like that Bosniak average because I got it closest, but it proves their Serb origin.

I know you're not a big fan of the Bosniaks :swl



Vlatko_Vuković,3.85,1.27,0,0,25.59,44.91,0.35,0,3. 81,0.2,20.02,0
Bosniensis,6.09,0,1.32,0.57,27.23,39.73,0.50,0,4.7 8,0.39,19.39,0

[Dušan]

These two are interesting


BalkanX,6.61,0.69,0,0,27.71,43.08,1.42,0,3.35,0,17 .14,0
Ford,2.96,1.46,0.41,0,26.71,43,0,0,4.76,0.05,20.66 ,0



I know you're not a big fan of the Bosniaks :swl



Vlatko_Vuković,3.85,1.27,0,0,25.59,44.91,0.35,0,3. 81,0.2,20.02,0
Bosniensis,6.09,0,1.32,0.57,27.23,39.73,0.50,0,4.7 8,0.39,19.39,0


https://i.imgur.com/1iy0Kcz.png

[Dušan]

K12b of TA Serbs that I found on Ion Basesculs K12b topic.


https://i.imgur.com/BKKuKd2.png

Me, Dick, Ford and Decius very close.

It is interesting, because my twin on K13 was vbnetkhio. :)

[CommonSense]

A user from the poreklo forum. His ancestry is entirely from central Serbia (municipalities Trstenik, Topola, Kragujevac):




Kit UL4530362

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.69
2 North_Atlantic 23.2
3 East_Med 18.65
4 West_Med 18.33
5 West_Asian 6.88
6 Red_Sea 1.77
7 East_Asian 1.17
8 Oceanian 0.99
9 Sub-Saharan 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.61
2 Romanian 5.85
3 Bulgarian 6.37
4 Moldavian 9.41
5 Croatian 11.52
6 Hungarian 12.39
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.01
8 Austrian 15.58
9 East_German 16.92
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.8
11 North_Italian 17.97
12 South_Polish 18.49
13 Tuscan 18.6
14 Ukrainian 18.75
15 West_German 20.45
16 Italian_Abruzzo 20.85
17 French 20.97
18 Central_Greek 21.18
19 West_Sicilian 21.56
20 Southwest_Russian 21.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.8% Ukrainian + 38.2% Italian_Jewish @ 3.42
2 61.7% Ukrainian + 38.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.45
3 73.1% Croatian + 26.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.59
4 57.6% Greek_Thessaly + 42.4% Ukrainian @ 3.6
5 63.7% Greek_Thessaly + 36.3% Estonian_Polish @ 3.69
6 73.2% Croatian + 26.8% Italian_Jewish @ 3.69
7 64.3% Greek_Thessaly + 35.7% Belorussian @ 3.69
8 67.6% Croatian + 32.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.7
9 52.8% West_Sicilian + 47.2% Estonian_Polish @ 3.73
10 57.7% West_Sicilian + 42.3% Lithuanian @ 3.75
11 53.6% Ukrainian + 46.4% West_Sicilian @ 3.77
12 68.2% Greek_Thessaly + 31.8% Lithuanian @ 3.8
13 62.1% South_Polish + 37.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.82
14 61.5% Greek_Thessaly + 38.5% Polish @ 3.85
15 57.3% Greek_Thessaly + 42.7% South_Polish @ 3.92
16 55.4% Croatian + 44.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.96
17 68% Greek_Thessaly + 32% Estonian @ 3.97
18 53.4% West_Sicilian + 46.6% Belorussian @ 4.04
19 58% Polish + 42% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.04
20 57.8% Ukrainian + 42.2% South_Italian @ 4.04

[CommonSense]

Another Serbian match. His father has ancestry from Mladenovac, a municipality on the far outskirts of Belgrade, and mother from Bosanska Krajina (Bosanski Petrovac, Banja Luka):





Kit WM5957628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.31
2 North_Atlantic 23.08
3 East_Med 17.89
4 West_Med 16.66
5 West_Asian 8.35
6 Red_Sea 2.08
7 Oceanian 1.24
8 Amerindian 0.68
9 Siberian 0.46
10 East_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.74
2 Romanian 5.31
3 Bulgarian 6.21
4 Moldavian 7.92
5 Croatian 10.36
6 Hungarian 11.37
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.59
8 Austrian 15.04
9 East_German 16.36
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.56
11 South_Polish 17.41
12 Ukrainian 17.68
13 North_Italian 19.15
14 Tuscan 19.63
15 West_German 20.27
16 Southwest_Russian 20.55
17 Polish 20.81
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.95
19 Italian_Abruzzo 21.32
20 French 21.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.9% Greek_Thessaly + 38.1% Belorussian @ 2.08
2 61.3% Greek_Thessaly + 38.7% Estonian_Polish @ 2.13
3 66% Greek_Thessaly + 34% Lithuanian @ 2.16
4 63.7% Ukrainian + 36.3% Italian_Jewish @ 2.18
5 54.9% Greek_Thessaly + 45.1% Ukrainian @ 2.28
6 79.8% Bulgarian + 20.2% Estonian_Polish @ 2.29
7 80.2% Bulgarian + 19.8% Belorussian @ 2.3
8 70% Croatian + 30% Ashkenazi @ 2.32
9 61% Greek_Thessaly + 39% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.41
10 83% Bulgarian + 17% Lithuanian @ 2.43
11 53.2% Estonian_Polish + 46.8% South_Italian @ 2.49
12 82.9% Bulgarian + 17.1% Estonian @ 2.51
13 59% Greek_Thessaly + 41% Polish @ 2.52
14 65.8% Greek_Thessaly + 34.2% Estonian @ 2.52
15 79.9% Bulgarian + 20.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.57
16 58.7% Greek_Thessaly + 41.3% Southwest_Russian @ 2.57
17 63.7% Ukrainian + 36.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.58
18 75.4% Croatian + 24.6% Italian_Jewish @ 2.58
19 75.6% Bulgarian + 24.4% Ukrainian @ 2.58
20 51.9% South_Italian + 48.1% Lithuanian @ 2.61

[CommonSense]

Ancestry from Trebinje, Herzegovina. The email is linked to GEDCOM






Kit H901948

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.46
2 North_Atlantic 26.06
3 West_Med 18.79
4 East_Med 16.12
5 West_Asian 6.57
6 Red_Sea 1.04
7 Amerindian 0.85
8 Oceanian 0.67
9 Siberian 0.4
10 South_Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.58
2 Romanian 6.71
3 Moldavian 7.81
4 Bulgarian 8.46
5 Croatian 9.24
6 Hungarian 9.54
7 Austrian 12.48
8 East_German 13.68
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.75
10 South_Polish 16.2
11 Greek_Thessaly 16.32
12 Ukrainian 16.69
13 West_German 17.72
14 North_Italian 17.82
15 French 18.68
16 South_Dutch 19.11
17 Tuscan 19.61
18 Polish 19.67
19 Southwest_Russian 20.32
20 Portuguese 20.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.1% Ukrainian + 45.9% Tuscan @ 3.05
2 53.2% Tuscan + 46.8% Estonian_Polish @ 3.3
3 58.4% Tuscan + 41.6% Lithuanian @ 3.36
4 69.2% Croatian + 30.8% Tuscan @ 3.36
5 50.9% Tuscan + 49.1% Southwest_Russian @ 3.39
6 58.7% Ukrainian + 41.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.39
7 73.1% Croatian + 26.9% West_Sicilian @ 3.55
8 52.9% Tuscan + 47.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.66
9 55.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 44.3% Tuscan @ 3.81
10 53.9% Tuscan + 46.1% Belorussian @ 3.81
11 79.3% Croatian + 20.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.82
12 51.6% Tuscan + 48.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.86
13 54.6% Polish + 45.4% West_Sicilian @ 3.86
14 65.4% Croatian + 34.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.86
15 79.5% Croatian + 20.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.95
16 59.6% South_Polish + 40.4% West_Sicilian @ 3.96
17 53.4% North_Italian + 46.6% Southwest_Russian @ 4
18 50.2% South_Polish + 49.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.01
19 76.7% Croatian + 23.3% South_Italian @ 4.08
20 50.1% Tuscan + 49.9% Polish @ 4.09

[CommonSense]

Father with ancestry from Stapari, Užice and Divoselo, Lika. Mother with ancestry from the Ljig municipality. The email is once again linked to GEDCOM






Kit SU9683501

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.65
2 North_Atlantic 25.42
3 East_Med 17.69
4 West_Med 12.69
5 West_Asian 7.18
6 Siberian 1.84
7 Amerindian 0.99
8 Sub-Saharan 0.32
9 Red_Sea 0.2
10 Northeast_African 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 7.25
2 Serbian 7.49
3 Croatian 8.06
4 Hungarian 9.04
5 Romanian 9.99
6 Bulgarian 11.45
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 13.14
8 South_Polish 13.31
9 Ukrainian 13.78
10 Austrian 13.78
11 East_German 14.5
12 Southwest_Russian 16.04
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.65
14 Polish 16.78
15 Russian_Smolensk 18.37
16 Estonian_Polish 18.52
17 Belorussian 18.89
18 Greek_Thessaly 19.81
19 West_German 20.09
20 Kargopol_Russian 20.39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55% Estonian + 45% Ashkenazi @ 3.57
2 68.5% South_Polish + 31.5% Ashkenazi @ 3.73
3 60% Belorussian + 40% Ashkenazi @ 3.79
4 65.5% Belorussian + 34.5% Italian_Jewish @ 3.81
5 69.3% Southwest_Russian + 30.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.83
6 67.7% Ukrainian + 32.3% Ashkenazi @ 3.89
7 62.4% Belorussian + 37.6% South_Italian @ 3.89
8 66% Estonian_Polish + 34% Italian_Jewish @ 4
9 51.2% Belorussian + 48.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.01
10 63.3% Bulgarian + 36.7% Belorussian @ 4.03
11 60.8% Estonian + 39.2% Italian_Jewish @ 4.04
12 60.5% Estonian_Polish + 39.5% Ashkenazi @ 4.04
13 63.6% Southwest_Russian + 36.4% West_Sicilian @ 4.04
14 60.2% Lithuanian + 39.8% Italian_Jewish @ 4.09
15 64.1% Southwest_Russian + 35.9% Ashkenazi @ 4.11
16 63% Polish + 37% Ashkenazi @ 4.11
17 72.8% Ukrainian + 27.2% Italian_Jewish @ 4.17
18 54.4% Lithuanian + 45.6% Ashkenazi @ 4.19
19 58.9% Belorussian + 41.1% Central_Greek @ 4.19
20 68.1% Bulgarian + 31.9% Estonian @ 4.25

[CommonSense]

Serb from Knin






Kit SY6713149

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 30.56
2 Baltic 26.62
3 West_Med 15.62
4 West_Asian 12.88
5 East_Med 10.82
6 Red_Sea 2.43
7 Amerindian 0.95
8 Siberian 0.07
9 Oceanian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 6.14
2 Hungarian 7.41
3 Austrian 8.54
4 Romanian 8.68
5 Moldavian 8.86
6 Croatian 10.07
7 East_German 10.55
8 Bulgarian 11.52
9 West_German 12.96
10 South_Dutch 14.48
11 French 15.32
12 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.86
13 South_Polish 15.96
14 North_German 17.06
15 Ukrainian 17.4
16 North_Italian 18.39
17 Greek_Thessaly 19
18 Polish 19.52
19 Danish 19.77
20 Southeast_English 19.83

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.5% East_German + 18.5% Armenian @ 2.47
2 81.5% East_German + 18.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.73
3 85.1% Austrian + 14.9% Georgian @ 2.74
4 85.9% Austrian + 14.1% Abhkasian @ 2.79
5 84.8% Austrian + 15.2% Armenian @ 2.85
6 84.9% Austrian + 15.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.96
7 78.2% East_German + 21.8% Turkish @ 2.99
8 81.9% Austrian + 18.1% Kumyk @ 3.14
9 83.2% Austrian + 16.8% Adygei @ 3.14
10 82.1% Austrian + 17.9% Turkish @ 3.17
11 81.8% East_German + 18.2% Assyrian @ 3.2
12 83% Austrian + 17% Balkar @ 3.26
13 82.2% East_German + 17.8% Georgian @ 3.26
14 84.7% Austrian + 15.3% Kurdish @ 3.32
15 83.1% East_German + 16.9% Abhkasian @ 3.37
16 82.6% Austrian + 17.4% Kabardin @ 3.4
17 85.3% Austrian + 14.7% Assyrian @ 3.42
18 83.4% Austrian + 16.6% Azeri @ 3.44
19 83.9% Austrian + 16.1% North_Ossetian @ 3.45
20 84.1% Austrian + 15.9% Ossetian @ 3.46

[CommonSense]

RARE!

Serbian woman from Crna Trava (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crna_Trava)







Kit MR5276800

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 24.54
2 Baltic 24.25
3 East_Med 21.47
4 West_Med 19.97
5 West_Asian 7.05
6 Red_Sea 0.89
7 Amerindian 0.73
8 Oceanian 0.69
9 East_Asian 0.4

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.43
2 Romanian 5.61
3 Serbian 7.68
4 Greek_Thessaly 10.46
5 Moldavian 13.64
6 North_Italian 13.85
7 Tuscan 14.03
8 Hungarian 15.06
9 Croatian 15.72
10 Italian_Abruzzo 16.82
11 West_Sicilian 17.3
12 Austrian 17.3
13 Central_Greek 17.58
14 East_Sicilian 18.62
15 East_German 19.1
16 Portuguese 19.16
17 French 19.49
18 Ashkenazi 19.55
19 Spanish_Galicia 19.92
20 West_German 20.2

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.4% Bulgarian + 14.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.13
2 57.6% West_Sicilian + 42.4% Ukrainian @ 4.21
3 87.4% Bulgarian + 12.6% Southwest_French @ 4.27
4 85.8% Bulgarian + 14.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.3
5 88.4% Bulgarian + 11.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.33
6 85.1% Bulgarian + 14.9% Portuguese @ 4.34
7 86.4% Bulgarian + 13.6% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.34
8 87.5% Bulgarian + 12.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.34
9 86.4% Bulgarian + 13.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.35
10 85.9% Bulgarian + 14.1% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.41
11 62.8% West_Sicilian + 37.2% Estonian_Polish @ 4.42
12 87.7% Bulgarian + 12.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.43
13 66.7% West_Sicilian + 33.3% Lithuanian @ 4.44
14 91.3% Romanian + 8.7% Sardinian @ 4.48
15 87.5% Bulgarian + 12.5% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.48
16 86.8% Bulgarian + 13.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.51
17 81.2% Bulgarian + 18.8% North_Italian @ 4.51
18 63.3% West_Sicilian + 36.7% Belorussian @ 4.51
19 52.6% Croatian + 47.4% West_Sicilian @ 4.52
20 92.3% Bulgarian + 7.7% French_Basque @ 4.52

[CommonSense]

Son of the two people above






Kit MH9821168

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 28.81
2 Baltic 23.62
3 West_Med 18.1
4 East_Med 15.67
5 West_Asian 9.75
6 Red_Sea 2.05
7 Amerindian 1.06
8 South_Asian 0.87
9 Oceanian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.49
2 Romanian 4.82
3 Bulgarian 7.54
4 Hungarian 10.58
5 Moldavian 11.1
6 Austrian 11.85
7 Croatian 12.89
8 North_Italian 13.43
9 Greek_Thessaly 13.89
10 East_German 14.02
11 West_German 14.51
12 French 14.6
13 Tuscan 15.46
14 South_Dutch 16
15 Portuguese 16.7
16 Spanish_Galicia 17.11
17 Spanish_Cataluna 17.64
18 Spanish_Extremadura 18
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.51
20 Italian_Abruzzo 18.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.5% East_German + 40.5% Central_Greek @ 1.28
2 54% Austrian + 46% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.31
3 75.9% Romanian + 24.1% French @ 1.38
4 50.2% Greek_Thessaly + 49.8% East_German @ 1.42
5 68.3% Bulgarian + 31.7% South_Dutch @ 1.47
6 76.1% Bulgarian + 23.9% Southwest_English @ 1.51
7 77.9% Romanian + 22.1% South_Dutch @ 1.69
8 63.6% East_German + 36.4% South_Italian @ 1.7
9 74.7% Bulgarian + 25.3% Southeast_English @ 1.71
10 83.9% Romanian + 16.1% Southwest_English @ 1.71
11 66.2% Bulgarian + 33.8% West_German @ 1.75
12 77.4% Bulgarian + 22.6% West_Scottish @ 1.84
13 76.3% Romanian + 23.7% West_German @ 1.84
14 83% Romanian + 17% Southeast_English @ 1.85
15 76.9% Bulgarian + 23.1% Irish @ 1.87
16 60.8% East_German + 39.2% East_Sicilian @ 1.89
17 76.3% Bulgarian + 23.7% Orcadian @ 1.9
18 63.6% Austrian + 36.4% Central_Greek @ 2.01
19 76.9% Serbian + 23.1% North_Italian @ 2.05
20 85.1% Romanian + 14.9% West_Scottish @ 2.05





The email is linked to GEDCOM

[Varda]

Serb from Knin






Kit SY6713149

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 30.56
2 Baltic 26.62
3 West_Med 15.62
4 West_Asian 12.88
5 East_Med 10.82
6 Red_Sea 2.43
7 Amerindian 0.95
8 Siberian 0.07
9 Oceanian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 6.14
2 Hungarian 7.41
3 Austrian 8.54
4 Romanian 8.68
5 Moldavian 8.86
6 Croatian 10.07
7 East_German 10.55
8 Bulgarian 11.52
9 West_German 12.96
10 South_Dutch 14.48
11 French 15.32
12 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.86
13 South_Polish 15.96
14 North_German 17.06
15 Ukrainian 17.4
16 North_Italian 18.39
17 Greek_Thessaly 19
18 Polish 19.52
19 Danish 19.77
20 Southeast_English 19.83

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.5% East_German + 18.5% Armenian @ 2.47
2 81.5% East_German + 18.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.73
3 85.1% Austrian + 14.9% Georgian @ 2.74
4 85.9% Austrian + 14.1% Abhkasian @ 2.79
5 84.8% Austrian + 15.2% Armenian @ 2.85
6 84.9% Austrian + 15.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.96
7 78.2% East_German + 21.8% Turkish @ 2.99
8 81.9% Austrian + 18.1% Kumyk @ 3.14
9 83.2% Austrian + 16.8% Adygei @ 3.14
10 82.1% Austrian + 17.9% Turkish @ 3.17
11 81.8% East_German + 18.2% Assyrian @ 3.2
12 83% Austrian + 17% Balkar @ 3.26
13 82.2% East_German + 17.8% Georgian @ 3.26
14 84.7% Austrian + 15.3% Kurdish @ 3.32
15 83.1% East_German + 16.9% Abhkasian @ 3.37
16 82.6% Austrian + 17.4% Kabardin @ 3.4
17 85.3% Austrian + 14.7% Assyrian @ 3.42
18 83.4% Austrian + 16.6% Azeri @ 3.44
19 83.9% Austrian + 16.1% North_Ossetian @ 3.45
20 84.1% Austrian + 15.9% Ossetian @ 3.46





Interesting.

He is one of few Serbs with over 30% North Atlantic.

[CommonSense]

Interesting.

He is one of few Serbs with over 30% North Atlantic.

There seems to be an increased tendency among Dalmatians to score higher North Atlantic and West Med. At least compared to Serbs from nearby regions like Lika and Bosnia.

[Ayetooey]

A likely Knin Serb based off matches and facebook, no gedcom so emailed for confirmation.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/853331124519174194/unknown.png

A weird one. Gedcom says half German (from Hamburg) half Serb from Knin.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/853332909464354846/unknown.png

[Varda]

A likely Knin Serb based off matches and facebook, no gedcom so emailed for confirmation.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/853331124519174194/unknown.png

His Baltic score is identical as of other Knin Serb - your father. :)

[Ayetooey]

Lika.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/853340935017332807/unknown.png

[CommonSense]

Lika.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/853340935017332807/unknown.png

We already have have that kit and all the ones registered on that account. They're all from the same village - Zalužnica.

[Varda]

There seems to be an increased tendency among Dalmatians to score higher North Atlantic and West Med. At least compared to Serbs from nearby regions like Lika and Bosnia.

Maybe it's connected wit I1 haplogroup.

Post of Nebojša from Poreklo about y dna of Bukovica Serbs from February 2020 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukovica,_Croatia)
Bukovica, n=50
I2-Y3120 = 52% (PH908 32%)
I1-M253 = 14% (Z63 6% / Z58 4% / P109 2% / M227 2%)
E-V13 = 10%
J2b-M205 = 10%
N-P189.2 = 6%
R1b-M269 = 4%
R1a-Z280 = 2%
J1-M267 = 2%
His comment:
Bukovica is very important for the migration inside of Krajina. It's populated mostly from western Bosnia in late 17th century, little from Lika, and for sure there is a older families which moved inside of Dalmatia and they are present in Dalmatia since 16th century. Later population of Bukovica migrated towards the Lika and western Bosnia.
Differences from general genetic picture of Krajina are very low percentage of R1a, and very high percentage of I2. Bukovica might be one of the regions with highest I2-Y3120 among Serbs. Very widespread PH908 families celebrate Lučindan, Lazarevdan, Stevanjdan etc.
I1-M253 is very high as in other parts of Dalmatia. Again it's present in 4 branches.
E-V13 is about Krajina average.
J2b-M205 and N-P189.2 are above avarage as in rest of Krajina.

Since February 2020 has been published 10 new Bukovica Serb results, and it's similar.
Sample 60
I2a (29) - 48.4% (PH908 30%)
I1 (8) - 13.4%
N-P189.2 (5) - 8.3%
R1a (5) - 8.3%
E-V13 (5) - 8.3%
J2b-M205 (5) - 8.3%
R1b (2) - 3.3%
J1 (1) - 1.6%

[Ford]

These two are interesting


BalkanX,6.61,0.69,0,0,27.71,43.08,1.42,0,3.35,0,17 .14,0
Ford,2.96,1.46,0.41,0,26.71,43,0,0,4.76,0.05,20.66 ,0


What's the BalkanX reference ?

[Varda]

User Radul from Poreklo, his origin is from Krivošije and Cetinje
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivošije
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetinje

https://i.imgur.com/U8r8DXf.png
https://i.imgur.com/UJBLsId.jpg

[Dušan]

New match from Gedmatch

Population
North_Atlantic 25.82 Pct
Baltic 31.67 Pct
West_Med 16.35 Pct
West_Asian 8.58 Pct
East_Med 13.09 Pct
Red_Sea 1.28 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.89 Pct
Amerindian 0.89 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.41 Pct




Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.85
2 Serbian 5.09
3 Croatian 5.78
4 Hungarian 7.19
5 Romanian 8.26
6 Bulgarian 10.37
7 Austrian 11.22
8 East_German 12.02
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.15
10 South_Polish 12.87
11 Ukrainian 13.3
12 Polish 16.41
13 Southwest_Russian 16.76
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.17
15 West_German 17.77
16 Russian_Smolensk 18.56
17 Estonian_Polish 18.98
18 Greek_Thessaly 19.04
19 South_Dutch 19.15
20 Belorussian 19.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.1% Romanian + 37.9% Ukrainian @ 1.84
2 59.6% Croatian + 40.4% Romanian @ 2.02
3 66.8% Ukrainian + 33.2% West_Sicilian @ 2.04
4 65.4% Croatian + 34.6% Bulgarian @ 2.12
5 65.7% Ukrainian + 34.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.13
6 60% Romanian + 40% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.15
7 85% Croatian + 15% South_Italian @ 2.19
8 78% Croatian + 22% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.2
9 74.4% Romanian + 25.6% Estonian @ 2.2
10 83.2% Croatian + 16.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.25
11 59.4% Moldavian + 40.6% Serbian @ 2.25
12 67.2% Romanian + 32.8% Polish @ 2.26
13 69.8% Ukrainian + 30.2% South_Italian @ 2.27
14 83% Croatian + 17% Central_Greek @ 2.28
15 70.4% Romanian + 29.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.3
16 69.6% Bulgarian + 30.4% Estonian @ 2.3
17 57.8% Southwest_Russian + 42.2% Tuscan @ 2.35
18 82.6% Croatian + 17.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.36
19 83.7% Croatian + 16.3% East_Sicilian @ 2.36
20 87.1% Croatian + 12.9% Italian_Jewish @ 2.37

[CommonSense]

Father from Toplica (ancestors were settlers from Nikšić), mother from Plav:






Kit SK2869692

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 26.76
2 North_Atlantic 21.78
3 West_Med 19.34
4 East_Med 19.03
5 West_Asian 8.69
6 Red_Sea 1.94
7 Amerindian 1.27
8 Oceanian 0.72
9 East_Asian 0.47

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 4.12
2 Romanian 4.58
3 Serbian 6.6
4 Moldavian 10.75
5 Greek_Thessaly 11.6
6 Croatian 13.37
7 Hungarian 14.15
8 North_Italian 16.9
9 Tuscan 16.97
10 Austrian 17.18
11 East_German 18.68
12 Italian_Abruzzo 18.69
13 Central_Greek 18.77
14 West_Sicilian 19.54
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.73
16 East_Sicilian 19.94
17 South_Polish 20.67
18 Ukrainian 20.82
19 Ashkenazi 21.12
20 West_German 21.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.7% Greek_Thessaly + 35.3% Ukrainian @ 2.65
2 53.8% Greek_Thessaly + 46.2% Croatian @ 2.94
3 73.6% Greek_Thessaly + 26.4% Lithuanian @ 2.95
4 69.9% Greek_Thessaly + 30.1% Estonian_Polish @ 2.95
5 68% Greek_Thessaly + 32% Polish @ 3.02
6 63.6% Greek_Thessaly + 36.4% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.1
7 69.7% Greek_Thessaly + 30.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.17
8 70.6% Greek_Thessaly + 29.4% Belorussian @ 3.2
9 91% Bulgarian + 9% Estonian_Polish @ 3.22
10 88.9% Bulgarian + 11.1% Ukrainian @ 3.22
11 83.5% Bulgarian + 16.5% Croatian @ 3.23
12 52.6% Ukrainian + 47.4% South_Italian @ 3.26
13 92.6% Bulgarian + 7.4% Lithuanian @ 3.26
14 68.1% Croatian + 31.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.28
15 90.6% Bulgarian + 9.4% Polish @ 3.28
16 91.5% Bulgarian + 8.5% Belorussian @ 3.29
17 88.8% Bulgarian + 11.2% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.3
18 64.7% Greek_Thessaly + 35.3% South_Polish @ 3.31
19 73.5% Greek_Thessaly + 26.5% Estonian @ 3.31
20 92.7% Bulgarian + 7.3% Estonian @ 3.33

[Leto]

GEDmatch of this man (https://live.staticflickr.com/7012/6735470697_f3b9f83da7_b.jpg) who is an advisor at the UN Human Rights Office. He is a based in Paris and his wife appears to be Russian (also on GEDmatch if anyone's interested)

North_Atlantic 22.03 Pct
Baltic 30.67 Pct
West_Med 14.47 Pct
West_Asian 9.27 Pct
East_Med 15.72 Pct
Red_Sea 3.02 Pct
South_Asian 2.91 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.17 Pct
Amerindian 0.78 Pct
Oceanian 0.9 Pct
Northeast_African 0.06 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 6.09
2 Moldavian 6.12
3 Romanian 7.29
4 Bulgarian 8.45
5 Croatian 8.9
6 Hungarian 10.84
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.58
8 Austrian 15
9 South_Polish 15.79
10 Ukrainian 15.93
11 East_German 15.97
12 Greek_Thessaly 16.58
13 Southwest_Russian 18.44
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.67
15 Polish 19
16 Russian_Smolensk 20.49
17 West_German 20.93
18 Estonian_Polish 20.97
19 Tatar 21.3
20 Belorussian 21.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.3% Greek_Thessaly + 44.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.04
2 61.2% Greek_Thessaly + 38.8% Lithuanian @ 2.07
3 51.8% Lithuanian + 48.2% South_Italian @ 2.17
4 52.7% Greek_Thessaly + 47.3% Southwest_Russian @ 2.19
5 53% Greek_Thessaly + 47% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.2
6 52.5% Central_Greek + 47.5% Lithuanian @ 2.2
7 52.9% Estonian_Polish + 47.1% Central_Greek @ 2.24
8 51.4% East_Sicilian + 48.6% Lithuanian @ 2.25
9 57.8% Russian_Smolensk + 42.2% South_Italian @ 2.26
10 54.6% Russian_Smolensk + 45.4% East_Sicilian @ 2.26
11 83.7% Croatian + 16.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.29
12 55.9% Greek_Thessaly + 44.1% Estonian_Polish @ 2.29
13 83.4% Croatian + 16.6% Samaritan @ 2.31
14 53.5% Russian_Smolensk + 46.5% Central_Greek @ 2.33
15 57.2% Estonian_Polish + 42.8% South_Italian @ 2.39
16 54.1% Estonian_Polish + 45.9% East_Sicilian @ 2.42
17 63.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 36.1% Ashkenazi @ 2.45
18 83.4% Croatian + 16.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.47
19 56.7% Greek_Thessaly + 43.3% Belorussian @ 2.52
20 72.4% Ukrainian_Lviv + 27.6% Cyprian @ 2.57

[Arzanene]

109119
109120
109121

hard breakdown of the Serbian populations, separated into Slavic and Balkan.

[vbnetkhio]

109119
109120
109121

hard breakdown of the Serbian populations, separated into Slavic and Balkan.

not a very informative model. Early Slavs weren't like Sorbs, and pre-Slavic Balkanians weren't exactly like Albanians.

[Varda]

Of course Vojvodina was settled by Serbs before 1690.
First large Serbian settlements in Srem and southern Banat were formed in 15th century, when Ottomans conquered Serbian despotate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Despotate).

After Mohač battle in 1526, when Ottomans conquered almost entire Pannonian basin, there was dominant Serbian population all across Srem, Banat and Bačka, in todays Vojvodina.
The best evidence of majority Serbian presence in todays Vojvodina in 16th century was Banat uprising (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_Banat) in 1594.


I dont know how much of todays native Vojvodina Serbs have roots from these earlier settlers, and how much from great migration in 1690.
The fact is that Serbs are in Vojvodina way before 1690.

From one book of notable Serbian historian Vladimir Ćorović https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ćorović

In 1480s there was many fight on the southern borders of Hungary and in Bosnia. The initiative was given almost equally by Serbian border guards and Turks. Despot Vuk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuk_Grgurević) stood out in particular. In autumn 1481. despot Vuk defeated Turkish army of the Smederevo commander Skender bey, and he broke into Serbia all the way to Kruševac. Serbian chronicles record how he took away a lot of people from Kruševac area. He took away over 60 000 Serbs from Kruševac area, and devastated whole area. By order of Hungarian king those Serbs moved around Timişoara. Hungarian king in general wanted to inhabit the sparsely populated southern areas, and to strengthen Serbs on that side in order to be more capable for resistance. From 1478. to 1482. in Hungary settled about 200 000 Serbs, according to one of his statements. "In the order to bind immigrant Serbs as strongly as possible and get mew ones for migration, Hungarian parliament passes an act exempting Serbs from paying taxes (desetak) to the Catholic clergy."

[Varda]

A likely Knin Serb based off matches and facebook, no gedcom so emailed for confirmation.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/853331124519174194/unknown.png

His surname is Vukojević?

[Varda]

User Radul from Poreklo, his origin is from Krivošije and Cetinje
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivošije
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetinje

https://i.imgur.com/U8r8DXf.png
https://i.imgur.com/UJBLsId.jpg

He is from East Bosnia (from Han Pijesak area). In Krivošije in Montenegro is deeper origin of his paternal ancestors.

[hazmatnik]

Hello, i would like to share my and my grandparents results.
Im half from Šumadija half from SE Serbia by origins.

My K13 result based on wgs kit (cca 182000 snps)

109751

My result based on MH kit

109753

Grandma, MH kit, her ancestry is mostly from Krajište and Vlasina area

109752

Grandpa, MH kit, his ancestry is from Trn area, Vlasina and Kosovo and Metohija

109754

Grandma and i always get higher distances, while grandpa gets rather low distances.

[hazmatnik]

Idk why attachments are not displayed as images but links.

[CommonSense]

You're from the poreklo forum, right? Nice to see you here.

I think your grandma gets high distance because both her North_Atlantic and West_Asian components are rather low. It's probably because of the low number of SNPs that the kit contains.

Anyway, this is just more proof of the difference between southern Serbs and Bulgarians/Macedonians (the latter in particular).

[hazmatnik]

You're from the poreklo forum, right? Nice to see you here.


Yup thats me. Thanks!

I had the same issue as my grandma i know that calculator uses only about 77000 snps from MH and FTDNA kits.
However, things did improve a little bit with my WGS kit, but still, lowest distance i get is 7+ instead of 10+

[CommonSense]

Yup thats me. Thanks!

I had the same issue as my grandma i know that calculator uses only about 77000 snps from MH and FTDNA kits.
However, things did improve a little bit with my WGS kit, but still, lowest distance i get is 7+ instead of 10+

For sure the kits with higher SNPs always receive lower distances. My mother's kit has the new MyHeritage chip while mine has the old FTDNA one and the difference is crystal clear.

Still ~7 isn't that high. Your results as a whole don't look odd, only the values of some particular components pull you away from the averages. Do you get smaller distances on the other calculators like Dodecad K12b or Eurogens K15?

[hazmatnik]

Do you get smaller distances on the other calculators like Dodecad K12b or Eurogens K15?

K12b is better fit, while K15 distances are 10+.

[vbnetkhio]

Yup thats me. Thanks!

I had the same issue as my grandma i know that calculator uses only about 77000 snps from MH and FTDNA kits.
However, things did improve a little bit with my WGS kit, but still, lowest distance i get is 7+ instead of 10+
It's normal to have +- 5 or 6 of a component compared to the average of your genetic group. You and your grandma just happen to have some components at the lower threshold, so you get high distances.

Genetic group can mean people from the same village,
Check out this example:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?351244-My-results-(Full-Dalmatia-Serb)&p=7281123&viewfull=1#post7281123

Many of these results also get high distances compared to the average of their village.


K12b is better fit, while K15 distances are 10+.

This effect is stronger in calcs with more components, and a lower SNP count can also increase it.

[Ion Basescul]

User Radul from Poreklo, his origin is from Krivošije and Cetinje
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivošije (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivo%C5%A1ije)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetinje



Serbian user with Romanian surname or is Radul just a nickname? "-ul" endings in surnames are typical of Moldovans/Romanians from Transnistria and Ukraine. They are usually heavily mixed and in mainland Moldova most I met were native Russian speakers.

[Dušan]

Serbian user with Romanian surname or is Radul just a nickname? "-ul" endings in surnames are typical of Moldovans/Romanians from Transnistria and Ukraine. They are usually heavily mixed and in mainland Moldova most I met were native Russian speakers.

Surname Радуловић (Radulović) is common among Serbs.

[Varda]

Serbian user with Romanian surname or is Radul just a nickname? "-ul" endings in surnames are typical of Moldovans/Romanians from Transnistria and Ukraine. They are usually heavily mixed and in mainland Moldova most I met were native Russian speakers.

Nick Radul came from his surname Radulović https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radulović

[CommonSense]

Serbian user with Romanian surname or is Radul just a nickname? "-ul" endings in surnames are typical of Moldovans/Romanians from Transnistria and Ukraine. They are usually heavily mixed and in mainland Moldova most I met were native Russian speakers.

It's a Serbian first name, but an archaic one. A simiar variant is 'Radule'. From those names the surname Radulović is derived.

[hazmatnik]

My paternal aunt, 100% Šumadija (Lazarevac, Aranđelovac). Our ancestors are mostly from Stari Vlah and Montenegro, with some lines being considered as "starinci".

109976

[hazmatnik]

And finally my 93 years old paternal grandma, 100% Sumadija, partly from Stari Vlah, partly "starinci"

110169

[Nausevar]

What's the highest West Med score ever for a serbian sample?

[Dušan]

MyHeritage DNA (Bosnian Serb from Banja Luka)

Admix results:

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.27
2 North_Atlantic 24.77
3 West_Med 17.37
4 East_Med 11.7
5 West_Asian 9.94
6 Red_Sea 2.16
7 South_Asian 1.55
8 Oceanian 0.7
9 East_Asian 0.43
10 Sub-Saharan 0.1


# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.63
2 Serbian 5.64
3 Croatian 6.16
4 Romanian 8.33
5 Hungarian 8.5
6 Bulgarian 10.24
7 Austrian 11.83
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.47
9 East_German 12.61
10 South_Polish 13.56



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4_vYul_5ho

[Kurt]

Dodecad k12b?

[Dušan]

Mine new updated closest 2-way combination:

Distance to: Dušan
3.15255447 47.80% Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl + 52.20% Torbesh_average

[Jana]

I think this account belongs to Serb from Croatia, hence hr in mail-address. Kit I checked gets Serbian matches. You can check them in user lookup by typing this: miloshr34@gmail.com

1#

1 Baltic 30.7
2 North_Atlantic 20.74
3 East_Med 18.11
4 West_Med 15.04
5 West_Asian 10.95
6 Red_Sea 2.46
7 Amerindian 1.61
8 Oceanian 0.35
9 Northeast_African 0.04
10 South_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

1 Romanian 6.79
2 Bulgarian 6.92
3 Serbian 7.11
4 Moldavian 8.12
5 Croatian 10.91
6 Hungarian 12.86
7 Greek_Thessaly 15.26
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.54
9 Austrian 17.04
10 Ukrainian 17.71
11 South_Polish 17.72
12 East_German 18.21
13 Southwest_Russian 19.91
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.08
15 Polish 20.88
16 Tuscan 21.67
17 North_Italian 21.85
18 Central_Greek 21.98
19 Italian_Abruzzo 22.13
20 Russian_Smolensk 22.24

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 67% Ukrainian + 33% Cyprian @ 2.18
2 52.5% Southwest_Russian + 47.5% Central_Greek @ 2.37
3 57% Greek_Thessaly + 43% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.5
4 63.3% Polish + 36.7% Cyprian @ 2.5
5 55.8% Central_Greek + 44.2% Lithuanian @ 2.53
6 52.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 47.7% Central_Greek @ 2.54
7 57% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 43% South_Italian @ 2.66
8 57.2% Southwest_Russian + 42.8% South_Italian @ 2.67
9 56.8% Greek_Thessaly + 43.2% Southwest_Russian @ 2.72
10 53.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.3% East_Sicilian @ 2.81
11 53.9% Southwest_Russian + 46.1% East_Sicilian @ 2.85
12 68.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 31.3% Cyprian @ 2.88
13 50.8% Central_Greek + 49.2% Estonian_Polish @ 2.9
14 80.1% Croatian + 19.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.91
15 75.8% Bulgarian + 24.2% Southwest_Russian @ 2.92
16 76% Bulgarian + 24% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.92
17 50.3% Central_Greek + 49.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.02
18 51.1% South_Italian + 48.9% Lithuanian @ 3.04
19 79.8% Bulgarian + 20.2% Erzya @ 3.04
20 70.8% Ukrainian + 29.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.1


#2

1 Baltic 29.33
2 North_Atlantic 21.25
3 East_Med 19.07
4 West_Med 16.24
5 West_Asian 11
6 Red_Sea 1.49
7 Amerindian 1.22
8 South_Asian 0.16
9 Oceanian 0.16
10 Siberian 0.06
11 Northeast_African 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

1 Bulgarian 5.2
2 Romanian 5.37
3 Serbian 6.59
4 Moldavian 9.06
5 Croatian 11.86
6 Hungarian 13.25
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.71
8 Austrian 17.09
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.86
10 East_German 18.44
11 South_Polish 18.82
12 Ukrainian 18.94
13 Tuscan 20.02
14 North_Italian 20.23
15 Central_Greek 20.53
16 Italian_Abruzzo 20.61
17 Southwest_Russian 21.4
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 21.6
19 East_Sicilian 21.84
20 West_Sicilian 22.08

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 82% Bulgarian + 18% Southwest_Russian @ 2.25
2 82.2% Bulgarian + 17.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.3
3 61.4% Greek_Thessaly + 38.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.34
4 86.3% Bulgarian + 13.7% Lithuanian @ 2.37
5 83.9% Bulgarian + 16.1% Estonian_Polish @ 2.44
6 61.2% Greek_Thessaly + 38.8% Southwest_Russian @ 2.47
7 85.1% Bulgarian + 14.9% Erzya @ 2.48
8 84.4% Bulgarian + 15.6% Belorussian @ 2.52
9 83.8% Bulgarian + 16.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.53
10 51.1% Central_Greek + 48.9% Southwest_Russian @ 2.58
11 58.8% Central_Greek + 41.2% Lithuanian @ 2.6
12 53.9% Southwest_Russian + 46.1% South_Italian @ 2.69
13 85.3% Bulgarian + 14.7% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.76
14 81% Bulgarian + 19% Ukrainian @ 2.77
15 53.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.3% South_Italian @ 2.8
16 64.9% Ukrainian + 35.1% Cyprian @ 2.83
17 54.1% Central_Greek + 45.9% Estonian_Polish @ 2.84
18 75% Croatian + 25% Cyprian @ 2.84
19 51.3% Central_Greek + 48.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.85
20 68.4% Greek_Thessaly + 31.6% Lithuanian @ 2.85

[Dušan]

I think this account belongs to Serb from Croatia, hence hr in mail-address. Kit I checked gets Serbian matches. You can check them in user lookup by typing this:


It is obviously milosh r
sh = š

No sane Serb will add "hr" next to his name.

[Jana]

It is obviously milosh r
sh = š

No sane Serb will add "hr" next to his name.

Ok xD
Some type of Serb anyway.

[Leto]

Must be a Serb (female). An equal amount of Baltic and North Atlantic

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 27.97
2 Baltic 27.35
3 East_Med 17.89
4 West_Med 17.07
5 West_Asian 7.49
6 East_Asian 0.77
7 Amerindian 0.66
8 Oceanian 0.52
9 Northeast_African 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 3.87
2 Romanian 5.69
3 Bulgarian 7.74
4 Hungarian 9.52
5 Moldavian 9.65
6 Croatian 10.99
7 Austrian 12.09
8 East_German 13.79
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.32
10 West_German 16.2
11 North_Italian 16.4
12 French 17.24
13 South_Polish 17.5
14 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.56
15 South_Dutch 17.79
16 Tuscan 18.02
17 Ukrainian 18.44
18 Portuguese 19.56
19 Spanish_Galicia 20.11
20 Spanish_Cataluna 20.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55% Tuscan + 45% Southwest_Russian @ 3.44
2 50.6% Tuscan + 49.4% Ukrainian @ 3.5
3 55.9% South_Polish + 44.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.57
4 66% Bulgarian + 34% East_German @ 3.57
5 57.7% Tuscan + 42.3% Belorussian @ 3.58
6 93.7% Serbian + 6.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.59
7 62% Tuscan + 38% Lithuanian @ 3.59
8 55.5% Tuscan + 44.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.61
9 50.8% South_Polish + 49.2% Tuscan @ 3.61
10 96.6% Serbian + 3.4% Sardinian @ 3.61
11 92.5% Serbian + 7.5% North_Italian @ 3.65
12 94.2% Serbian + 5.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.67
13 94.8% Serbian + 5.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.69
14 57.3% Tuscan + 42.7% Estonian_Polish @ 3.69
15 95.2% Serbian + 4.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.69
16 62.9% Bulgarian + 37.1% Austrian @ 3.69
17 95.7% Serbian + 4.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.7
18 95.4% Serbian + 4.6% Southwest_French @ 3.71
19 94.7% Serbian + 5.3% Portuguese @ 3.71
20 95.2% Serbian + 4.8% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.72

[Nausevar]

Was I added to the list of serbian samples to make some average?
I posted my K13 and K15 in late august/early september. Now I also have G25.

[vbnetkhio]

Was I added to the list of serbian samples to make some average?
I posted my K13 and K15 in late august/early september. Now I also have G25.

Serbs from Dalmatia, 15 samples:


Serb_Dalmatia,25.69,28.77,16.89,9.22,15.58,1.30,0. 60,0.31,0.63,0.45,0.41,0.10,0.06

[Nausevar]

Serbs from Dalmatia, 15 samples:


Serb_Dalmatia,25.69,28.77,16.89,9.22,15.58,1.30,0. 60,0.31,0.63,0.45,0.41,0.10,0.06

Ok, thanks.
Is it better and/or easier to make a PCA with PAST or with R?
Because I'm trying to make a G25 PCA but it's complicated and it's difficult to add and remove rows, I don't know how to zoom in and so on.
I would like to have a PCA with modern averages (possibly some regional averages for our areas) and position myself, like with the famous K15 map.
I dislike big dispersive maps like the vahaduo one, I prefer a simple map with big squares/dots and names, easy to look at.

[vbnetkhio]

Ok, thanks.
Is it better and/or easier to make a PCA with PAST or with R?
Because I'm trying to make a G25 PCA but it's complicated and it's difficult to add and remove rows, I don't know how to zoom in and so on.
I would like to have a PCA with modern averages (possibly some regional averages for our areas) and position myself, like with the famous K15 map.
I dislike big dispersive maps like the vahaduo one, I prefer a simple map with big squares/dots and names, easy to look at.

vahaduo's pca is the easiest to use:
https://vahaduo.github.io/custompca/

but PAST PCAs are easier to look at.
for PAST it's best to prepare your data in Excel first, then just paste it into PAST.

[Nausevar]

vahaduo's pca is the easiest to use:
https://vahaduo.github.io/custompca/
What do projected and pca data mean?

[vbnetkhio]

What do projected and pca data mean?

source data - whenever you add or remove a sample from here, the shape of a PCA changes a bit.
projected data - doesn't influence the PCA, they are just projected, like the K15 map. when you are satisfied with the shape of the PCA, then continue to add samples here.
pca data - you don't add samples here, this is where the program outputs the results of the calculation (the PCA). you can copy it and project it as an XY graph in another program (like past)

[Dušan]

Position of Serbian TA members in PCA with north Slavic cluster (Russian, Polish, Ukrainian and Belarus regional averages), and pre-Slavic cluster (Greek and Italian averages)

https://i.imgur.com/n0BcQdp.png


As seen in the chart, we can be modeled with northern Slavs and southern Italians, but not with northern Italians.