Half Syrian Half Scottish

[David24]

Very close to Greeks and Albanians, interesting. If a mix of Syrian and Scottish puts a person very close to Greeks, where did Greeks get their Middle Eastern mix from? Which period in time did they get it? I'd like to get some answers, thank you.

Also please no dumb comments, don't say it's not close, bla bla bla. Let's be real. I have another kit from a person who is half Korean half German, his distance to every European population is over 50.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 31.42
2 NE_European 29.98
3 Caucasian 22.27
4 SW_Asian 9.46
5 S_Indian 2.15
6 Oceanian 1.08
7 Wht_Nile_River 0.88
8 Siberian 0.83
9 S_African 0.79
10 W_African 0.6
11 Omo_River 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.72
2 Albanian 4.86
3 Montenegrin 5.37
4 Tuscan 8.91
5 Greek_Central 11.07
6 Bulgarian 11.67
7 Italian 11.92
8 Romanian 12.4
9 Ashkenazy_Jew 12.4
10 Macedonian 12.79
11 Bosnian 13.69
12 Sicilian 14.1
13 Sephardic_Jew 16.05
14 Brazilian 17.73
15 Serbian 18.43
16 Portuguese 19.91
17 Spaniard 20.43
18 French 22.22
19 Croatian 23.29
20 South_German 24.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.4% Bosnian + 30.6% Druze @ 2.58
2 62.6% Serbian + 37.4% Druze @ 2.78
3 50.9% Scottish + 49.1% Druze @ 2.78
4 52.4% English + 47.6% Druze @ 2.86
5 71% Macedonian + 29% Druze @ 2.88
6 50.3% Druze + 49.7% Norwegian @ 2.91
7 52.1% Orcadian + 47.9% Druze @ 2.93
8 53.1% Irish + 46.9% Druze @ 2.97
9 51% North_German + 49% Druze @ 3
10 55.2% Utahn_White + 44.8% Druze @ 3.05
11 55.9% South_German + 44.1% Druze @ 3.06
12 68.9% Bosnian + 31.1% Samaritian @ 3.15
13 66.4% Bosnian + 33.6% Cypriot @ 3.18
14 67.5% Macedonian + 32.5% Lebanese @ 3.25
15 51.9% Druze + 48.1% Swedish @ 3.27
16 60.6% Cypriot + 39.4% Belarusian @ 3.32
17 62.8% Cypriot + 37.2% Lithuanian @ 3.42
18 54.8% Hungarian + 45.2% Druze @ 3.44
19 68.3% Romanian + 31.7% Lebanese @ 3.47
20 56.9% Croatian + 43.1% Druze @ 3.5

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Greeks have assimilated Anatolians and to a lesser extent Levantines since the classical period, but especially in the Hellenistic and Roman periods, and future DNA studies should confirm what has just been said. They also assimilated Slavic populations starting in the seventh century AD and Albanian/Balkan populations during the Middle Ages. Greeks do not have Turkish ancestry though, this is a myth. Middle Eastern ancestry peaks in the Greek islands and is much less in mainland Greece, this ancestry is however far less than 50% overall.

Could you be so kind as to share this person's kit?

[David24]

Greeks have assimilated Anatolians and to a lesser extent Levantines since the classical period, but especially in the Hellenistic and Roman periods, and future DNA studies should confirm what has just been said. They also assimilated Slavic populations starting in the seventh century AD and Albanian/Balkan populations during the Middle Ages. Greeks do not have Turkish ancestry though, this is a myth. Middle Eastern ancestry peaks in the Greek islands and is much less in mainland Greece, this ancestry is however far less than 50% overall.

Could you be so kind as to share this person's kit?

I'll send you the person's kit in PM. Less than 50%? That's unbelievable, you know? This half Syrian half Scottish is coming as a full Greek/Albanian. Since Greeks are around 50%, I think Ashkenazim have higher Levantine, something around 65-70%, because we plot more South of Greek_Thessaly.

[Lucas]

I'll send you the person's kit in PM. Less than 50%? That's unbelievable, you know? This half Syrian half Scottish is coming as a full Greek/Albanian. Since Greeks are around 50%, I think Ashkenazim have higher Levantine, something around 65-70%, because we plot more South of Greek_Thessaly.

Post better his K13, K36 and Dodecad k12b

[Avicenna]

I'll send you the person's kit in PM. Less than 50%? That's unbelievable, you know? This half Syrian half Scottish is coming as a full Greek/Albanian. Since Greeks are around 50%, I think Ashkenazim have higher Levantine, something around 65-70%, because we plot more South of Greek_Thessaly.

Yes but you need to remember the individual is half Scottish . So naturally he/she will be pulled way westwards and northwards . Clustering with Greeks and Albanians isn't some sort of new revelation since levantines and Greeks share Alot of neolithic ancestry .

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I'll send you the person's kit in PM. Less than 50%? That's unbelievable, you know? This half Syrian half Scottish is coming as a full Greek/Albanian. Since Greeks are around 50%, I think Ashkenazim have higher Levantine, something around 65-70%, because we plot more South of Greek_Thessaly.

Okay, I haven't received anything yet. I highly doubt this person comes out as full Greek/Albanian. Not even Ashkenazi Jews reach 50% Levantine ancestry, I see it hard for Greeks to reach such levels. In the best GEDmatch calculators like Eurogenes K13 the fit will be shitty, and a fit above 6 or even 5 is already too much. These are the distances of a half-Lebanese, half-German person, as you can see he/she could never pass as native among the populations listed first.


Distance to: German/Lebanese
7.68607182 Italian_Abruzzo
8.89740412 Italian_Basilicata
9.02670483 Greek_Andros_Island
9.37739836 Italian_Abruzzo
10.00020000 Italian_Marche
10.09913858 Italian_Molise
10.46537147 Italian_Umbria
10.63116645 West_Sicilian
10.76085963 Italian
10.94810486 Italian_Lazio
11.06056056 Italian_Romagna
11.11376624 Italian_Campania
11.14664972 Italian_Apulia
11.20066516 Greek_Cyclades
11.37518791 Italian_Sicily
11.71513124 Tuscan
12.13719902 Greek_Western-Thrace
12.28809993 Greek_West_Macedonia
12.33497467 Greek_Central
12.33864255 Greek_Athens
12.49499900 East_Sicilian
12.52390514 Central_Greek
12.62621875 Malta
12.77323765 Italian_Tuscan
12.86132575 Greek_Peloponnese
12.94059118 Greek_Ionia
13.03196455 Turk_Crete
13.07580590 Greek_Northeast
13.23987254 Greek_Thessaly
13.26655569 Greek
13.34012744 Greek_Istanbul
13.35817727 Albanian_Tosk
13.49332798 Greek_Thessaly
13.80445218 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
13.82518354 South_Italian
13.83309438 Greek_West
14.03759239 Italian_Calabria
14.22794434 Turk_Makedonya
14.24182924 Moldova_Jewish
14.42846492 Albanian
14.50950034 Ashkenazi
14.67444718 Italian_Emilia
14.86070994 Greek_North_Aegean
14.99688301 Greek_Central_Macedonia

[Zagrosian]

50.9% Scottish + 49.1% Druze @ 2.78

This suggests that the person's Syrian parent is predominantly East Mediterranean rather than heavily Arabian and SSA admixed, unlike certain Syrian Muslims.
The Druze are close to Greek Cypriots, another East Med group. It's only normal that a half-Scottish and half-Syrian would get a Balkan Greek-like result.
The Near Eastern ancestry of Greeks and Albanians is mainly East Med, through Neolithic farmers.


These are the distances of a half-Lebanese, half-German person, as you can see he/she could never pass as native among the populations listed first.


Levantine Arabs are a very diverse group. Some have Beduin, Iranic, Anatolian Turkic or Kavkazi ancestry - some do not.
A 7.68 distance is even closer than what some full Lebanese people get to the Lebanese average.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Levantine Arabs are a very diverse group. Some have Beduin, Iranic, Anatolian Turkic or Kavkazi ancestry - some do not.
A 7.68 distance is even closer than what some full Lebanese people get to the Lebanese average.

It still remains too high a distance, and if you get a similar distance it simply means that your population is not included in the spreadsheet.

[Flashball]

Yes but you need to remember the individual is half Scottish . So naturally he/she will be pulled way westwards and northwards . Clustering with Greeks and Albanians isn't some sort of new revelation since levantines and Greeks share Alot of neolithic ancestry .

They share more "TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N" on G25, not really "Barcin" like among Basque, Sardinian, English, etc.

Tepecik = more "Neolithic Levantine" shifted.

Also, they have Levant neolithic stricto sensu, etc.

[Demhat]

Very close to Greeks and Albanians, interesting. If a mix of Syrian and Scottish puts a person very close to Greeks, where did Greeks get their Middle Eastern mix from? Which period in time did they get it? I'd like to get some answers, thank you.

Also please no dumb comments, don't say it's not close, bla bla bla. Let's be real. I have another kit from a person who is half Korean half German, his distance to every European population is over 50.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 31.42
2 NE_European 29.98
3 Caucasian 22.27
4 SW_Asian 9.46
5 S_Indian 2.15
6 Oceanian 1.08
7 Wht_Nile_River 0.88
8 Siberian 0.83
9 S_African 0.79
10 W_African 0.6
11 Omo_River 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.72
2 Albanian 4.86
3 Montenegrin 5.37
4 Tuscan 8.91
5 Greek_Central 11.07
6 Bulgarian 11.67
7 Italian 11.92
8 Romanian 12.4
9 Ashkenazy_Jew 12.4
10 Macedonian 12.79
11 Bosnian 13.69
12 Sicilian 14.1
13 Sephardic_Jew 16.05
14 Brazilian 17.73
15 Serbian 18.43
16 Portuguese 19.91
17 Spaniard 20.43
18 French 22.22
19 Croatian 23.29
20 South_German 24.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.4% Bosnian + 30.6% Druze @ 2.58
2 62.6% Serbian + 37.4% Druze @ 2.78
3 50.9% Scottish + 49.1% Druze @ 2.78
4 52.4% English + 47.6% Druze @ 2.86
5 71% Macedonian + 29% Druze @ 2.88
6 50.3% Druze + 49.7% Norwegian @ 2.91
7 52.1% Orcadian + 47.9% Druze @ 2.93
8 53.1% Irish + 46.9% Druze @ 2.97
9 51% North_German + 49% Druze @ 3
10 55.2% Utahn_White + 44.8% Druze @ 3.05
11 55.9% South_German + 44.1% Druze @ 3.06
12 68.9% Bosnian + 31.1% Samaritian @ 3.15
13 66.4% Bosnian + 33.6% Cypriot @ 3.18
14 67.5% Macedonian + 32.5% Lebanese @ 3.25
15 51.9% Druze + 48.1% Swedish @ 3.27
16 60.6% Cypriot + 39.4% Belarusian @ 3.32
17 62.8% Cypriot + 37.2% Lithuanian @ 3.42
18 54.8% Hungarian + 45.2% Druze @ 3.44
19 68.3% Romanian + 31.7% Lebanese @ 3.47
20 56.9% Croatian + 43.1% Druze @ 3.5

It's very very unlikely that the "non Middle Eastern" genes of Greeeks came from the Scottish. Therefore Syrians fall out as a primary source for Greeks.

The majority of proto Greek ancestry comes from Anatolian_Neo (but the little more Levant shifted version), the Caucasus/Iranian Plateau (some Steppe like) and Mesopotamia. Then the Greeks got another admixture event during the Byzantine era. Via the Levant and Slavic speakers.

[Leto]

A quick run for some of the Greek averages (the country of Greece only)

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 2.0199% / 0.02019890
37.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
35.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
26.0 TUR_Barcin_N
1.6 WHG

Target: Greek_Macedonia
Distance: 2.7364% / 0.02736358
45.0 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
35.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.4 TUR_Barcin_N
2.4 WHG

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 2.0335% / 0.02033528
37.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
32.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
24.0 TUR_Barcin_N
3.8 Levant_PPNB
1.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 WHG
0.2 Han

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 1.5329% / 0.01532884
47.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
22.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
8.2 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 Levant_PPNB
4.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.2 Han

Target: Greek_Dodecanese
Distance: 1.3400% / 0.01339999
37.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
15.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
14.8 TUR_Barcin_N
9.4 Levant_PPNB
7.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

[Ajeje Brazorf]

A quick run for some of the Greek averages (the country of Greece only)

Without Tepecik Citftlik N:


<colgroup><col style="width:48pt" width="64" span="5"> <col style="width:48pt" width="64"> <col style="width:48pt" width="64" span="7"> </colgroup><tbody>
Target
Distance
TUR_Barcin_N
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
Levant_PPNB
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
WHG
Han
Yoruba
Dinka
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
MAR_Taforalt


Syrian
0.01641338
3.4
10.0
28.2
41.2
12.7
0.0
1.0
1.6
1.2
0.7
0.0


Greek_Laconia
0.02362199
44.8
30.3
6.2
16.7
1.2
0.8
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Crete
0.01773097
38.0
22.0
19.9
16.4
3.7
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Dodecanese
0.01512525
38.4
15.0
23.7
16.4
6.5
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Kos
0.01235861
39.4
16.6
22.9
15.1
6.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Peloponnese
0.02202398
48.0
31.5
6.9
10.5
1.5
1.5
0.1
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Izmir
0.01596125
46.2
27.5
13.0
10.2
2.2
0.7
0.2
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.02512744
49.9
35.9
4.7
6.6
0.3
2.4
0.2
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Macedonia
0.02993240
48.9
33.2
9.9
4.8
0.0
3.1
0.1
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Thessaly
0.02245451
52.2
32.9
9.1
3.3
0.0
2.4
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.1

</tbody>

[Demhat]

Without Tepecik Citftlik N:


<colgroup><col style="width:48pt" width="64" span="5"> <col style="width:48pt" width="64"> <col style="width:48pt" width="64" span="7"> </colgroup><tbody>
Target
Distance
TUR_Barcin_N
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
Levant_PPNB
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
WHG
Han
Yoruba
Dinka
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
MAR_Taforalt


Syrian
0.01641338
3.4
10.0
28.2
41.2
12.7
0.0
1.0
1.6
1.2
0.7
0.0


Greek_Laconia
0.02362199
44.8
30.3
6.2
16.7
1.2
0.8
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Crete
0.01773097
38.0
22.0
19.9
16.4
3.7
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Dodecanese
0.01512525
38.4
15.0
23.7
16.4
6.5
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Kos
0.01235861
39.4
16.6
22.9
15.1
6.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Peloponnese
0.02202398
48.0
31.5
6.9
10.5
1.5
1.5
0.1
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Izmir
0.01596125
46.2
27.5
13.0
10.2
2.2
0.7
0.2
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.02512744
49.9
35.9
4.7
6.6
0.3
2.4
0.2
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Macedonia
0.02993240
48.9
33.2
9.9
4.8
0.0
3.1
0.1
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0


Greek_Thessaly
0.02245451
52.2
32.9
9.1
3.3
0.0
2.4
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.1

</tbody>

If you use Kura Araxes take out Ganj_Dareh_N too. This is overfitting. Basically overkill. Use Levant_CHL, Anatolian_CHL, Kura Araxes and Iran_CHL.

Or you use all just Neolithic and mesolithic proxies, like Ana_Neo, Iran_Neo, Levant_Neo, EHG, CHG, WHG.

Mixing Neolithic/Mesolithic and CHL-Iron Age proxies together will always cause some overfitting, because the CHL-Iron Age samples are mixed with various elements of the meso/neo proxies.

[Leto]

If you use Kura Araxes take out Ganj_Dareh_N too. This is overfitting. Basically overkill. Use Levant_CHL, Anatolian_CHL, Kura Araxes and Iran_CHL.

Or you use all just Neolithic and mesolithic proxies, like Ana_Neo, Iran_Neo, Levant_Neo, EHG, CHG, WHG.

Mixing Neolithic/Mesolithic and CHL-Iron Age proxies together will always cause some overfitting, because the CHL-Iron Age samples are mixed with various elements of the meso/neo proxies.
What I used was simply the Davidski standard run. That's what he personally uses.

[lockdownboredom]

Doesn't Tepecik conflict with Barcin

With Tepecik

Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 5.0404% / 0.05040423
36.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
32.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
28.8 TUR_Barcin_N
2.0 WHG

Without Tepecik

Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 5.1552% / 0.05155183
54.8 TUR_Barcin_N
35.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
2.2 WHG
0.8 Levant_PPNB
0.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

[Grogu]

Hopefully, that individual takes more from his Scottish side in looks! LOL :picard2: I would hate to be a half-breed brownie. Nicce genetic tool though! I am interested to see the PCA and where he plots.