About Romani diaspora

[reboun]

The map below shows Romani settlements.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Romani_people_around_the_world.svg/2560px-Romani_people_around_the_world.svg.png

My question is, did Romani people had left genetic impact (little or more) in the areas they settled? Some Turkish people get small amount of South Asian on MyHeritage in the videos I watched on YouTube. Maybe it is a distant Romani root? But I really don’t know, mine is just a guess, it might be anything else also.

[Voskos]

South Asian in Turks is most likely from Persians, Kurds and Turkmens. The same goes for Georgians, Laz , Abkhazians etc.

[Ion Basescul]

MyHeritage is the only company I know of that has genetic groups for Roma people. So if you score it there, then you likely are partially Roma, irrespective of how little South Asian you might score on GEDmatch-like calculators.

[Leto]

Can you please stop spamming the forum? Over the past two days you have opened many bullshit threads. If you're interested in genetics, start researching your own background first.

[Mejgusu]

Why you are still asking for bs whose answer you obviously know? Everyone on this forum is aware of your fake identity, you don’t even take your own questions serious. And asking mods for deleting all the stupid threads after revealing your moronic game does not help you upgrading your reputation.

[reboun]

Why you are still asking for bs whose answer you obviously know? Everyone on this forum is aware of your fake identity, you don’t even take your own questions serious. And asking mods for deleting all the stupid threads after revealing your moronic game does not help you upgrading your reputation.

Bye bye.

[Mejgusu]

Bye bye.

Please delete this thread, I didnt know that Turks aren’t closer to Czech ppl than to Iranians.

[Leto]

Why you are still asking for bs whose answer you obviously know? Everyone on this forum is aware of your fake identity, you don’t even take your own questions serious. And asking mods for deleting all the stupid threads after revealing your moronic game does not help you upgrading your reputation.
If you think he is a sock puppet account of someone else, I suggest messaging Loki and notifying him. I've managed to get a few socks/trolls banned this way.

[reboun]

Okay, this is getting really weird. I was accused of being a spammer first and now am accused of being a sock-puppet account. I think it is time to leave for at least 1-2 few days.

[Leto]

I'd rather hijack this thread than create a new one for one question since I dislike that very much.

Is it safe to assume that 3+% South_Asian and 2+% South_Central_Asian on K36 means genuine Romani ancestry?

[ixulescu]

I'd rather hijack this thread than create a new one for one question since I dislike that very much.

Is it safe to assume that 3+% South_Asian and 2+% South_Central_Asian on K36 means genuine Romani ancestry?

Dude, Iranians average like 15% South Asian (K13). A lot of middle easterners do as well. It doesn't mean they are Gypsies.

[JosephK]

I'd rather hijack this thread than create a new one for one question since I dislike that very much.

Is it safe to assume that 3+% South_Asian and 2+% South_Central_Asian on K36 means genuine Romani ancestry?

Either that OR you have ~3% South Asian and ~2% South Central Asian heritage.

[Lucas]

I'd rather hijack this thread than create a new one for one question since I dislike that very much.

Is it safe to assume that 3+% South_Asian and 2+% South_Central_Asian on K36 means genuine Romani ancestry?

It depends what is other part of his ancestry? If it is West Asian for example?

[Mikula]

The map below shows Romani settlements.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Romani_people_around_the_world.svg/2560px-Romani_people_around_the_world.svg.png



Why is Czechia grey? There are quiet lot of them.
Here is the reason: they tends not to declare themselves as a Roma in official statistics - in the last census only 13 150 declared themselvs as ethnical Roma, but it is estimated that in our country lives 262 000 of them.

[Leto]

Either that OR you have ~3% South Asian and ~2% South Central Asian heritage.
Nah, that person has no Indian or Afghan in her, she's Russian and otherwise scores like a Russian except for that SA part.

[Leto]

It depends what is other part of his ancestry? If it is West Asian for example?
No, she's Russian. Looks white like a bastard by the way, nowhere near similar to Gypsies xD

[Leto]

Why is Czechia grey? There are quiet lot of them.
Here is the reason: they tends not to declare themselves as a Roma in official statistics - in the last census only 13 150 declared themselvs as ethnical Roma, but it is estimated that in our country lives 262 000 of them.
That map is not about the percentage of them in each country. It's about Romani subgroups. Perhaps in CZ there are no native Gypsies or something.

[Bigby]

Dude, Iranians average like 15% South Asian (K13). A lot of middle easterners do as well. It doesn't mean they are Gypsies.

That's a whole different story, no it doesnt mean that they're gipsies, but it means that they share some common blood with gypsies, it's part of their ethnogenesis and they all have it, but if some random european scores 3-4-5-6%+ south asian routinely on tests he has foreign ancestry, and let's be honest if he's from balkans or any gipsy infested shithole the chances are 100x that it's gipsy and not MENA.

[JosephK]

Nah, that person has no Indian or Afghan in her, she's Russian and otherwise scores like a Russian except for that SA part.

I was sort-of kidding. My point is that South Asian and/or South Central Asian (and anything else, MENA, etc) may show up or not show up in small percentages in plenty of people . Genetic assortment is random and not everybody inherits precisely 50% of each parent's DNA of any kind; if you look around this forum, you'll see lots of Eastern European Slavs and Northwest Europeans and whoever who may show small percentages of South Asian (etc). It doesn't mean that they're actually part Roma or Indian. Eurogenes does not really pick up any South Asian in me even though I know I have partial Roma ancestors (in fact, it sees more SA in my mother who's half Anglo and half Slovak). If you want to see if someone is part Roma, try looking for Roma DNA matches. If you're a small part Roma, you should find a bunch of "3-5th cousins" even though they're not really your cousins.

[Lucas]

Nah, that person has no Indian or Afghan in her, she's Russian and otherwise scores like a Russian except for that SA part.

She has some Siberian too?

[Lucas]

The map below shows Romani settlements.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Romani_people_around_the_world.svg/2560px-Romani_people_around_the_world.svg.png

My question is, did Romani people had left genetic impact (little or more) in the areas they settled? Some Turkish people get small amount of South Asian on MyHeritage in the videos I watched on YouTube. Maybe it is a distant Romani root? But I really don’t know, mine is just a guess, it might be anything else also.

Angola?????

[ixulescu]

That's a whole different story, no it doesnt mean that they're gipsies, but it means that they share some common blood with gypsies, it's part of their ethnogenesis and they all have it, but if some random european scores 3-4-5-6%+ south asian routinely on tests he has foreign ancestry, and let's be honest if he's from balkans or any gipsy infested shithole the chances are 100x that it's gipsy and not MENA.

That's incorrect. A lot of Balkanites, including Romanians have genuine Middle Eastern ancestry not connected to Gypsies in any way.

For instance, not many Romanians know (because of the current shitty education system that does not want to discuss history anymore) that the Romanian cities on the Danube have been literally occupied by the Ottomans for about 300 years (unlike the rest of the Principalities, which were never occupied). Half of the population of those cities used to be Middle Eastern. Some of those people left during the Balkan wars, but most remained and converted. You can bet their present day descendants score above 2% South Asian, yet they have no Gypsy ancestry. Many of them even overlap in looks with Gypsies, but socially they're fully integrated, and always have been.

[Bigby]

That's incorrect. A lot of Balkanites, including Romanians have genuine Middle Eastern ancestry not connected to Gypsies in any way.

For instance, not many Romanians know (because of the current shitty education system that does not want to discuss history anymore) that the Romanian cities on the Danube have been literally occupied by the Ottomans for about 300 years (unlike the rest of the Principalities, which were never occupied). Half of the population of those cities used to be Middle Eastern. Some of those people left during the Balkan wars, but most remained and converted. You can bet their present day descendants score above 2% South Asian, yet they have no Gypsy ancestry. Many of them even overlap in looks with Gypsies, but socially they're fully integrated.

That's nice but if I pick randomly 100 Romanians most of those, if not all, who score south asian will have it from gipsies and it will be in the 5-25% range on average(4th-5th generation gippo mixes are probably very rare)...and in numbers, it will be around 10% of romanians and the fact that it occurs in MOST cities in very similar percentage it means that it's not from some turkish/-insert mena minority- that used to inhabit some small cities or settlements.

By the way, 2% can be noise for sure, but 5% is not, you'd have to be half or similar to that some MENA to score so much.

[Mikula]

That map is not about the percentage of them in each country. It's about Romani subgroups. Perhaps in CZ there are no native Gypsies or something.

I see. Wiki says about Roma in the Czech Republic:
90% of native Romani were killed during the war; the Romani in modern-day Czech Republic are mostly post-war immigrants from Slovakia or Hungary and their descendants.

[Leto]

That's nice but if I pick randomly 100 Romanians most of those, if not all, who score south asian will have it from gipsies and it will be in the 5-25% range on average(4th-5th generation gippo mixes are probably very rare)...and in numbers, it will be around 10% of romanians and the fact that it occurs in MOST cities in very similar percentage it means that it's not from some turkish/-insert mena minority- that used to inhabit some small cities or settlements.

By the way, 2% can be noise for sure, but 5% is not, you'd have to be half or similar to that some MENA to score so much.
6-7% South Asia on Eurogenes can be translated to abt 25% Romani.

[ixulescu]

That's nice but if I pick randomly 100 Romanians most of those, if not all, who score south asian will have it from gipsies and it will be in the 5-25% range on average(4th-5th generation gippo mixes are probably very rare)...and in numbers, it will be around 10% of romanians and the fact that it occurs in MOST cities in very similar percentage it means that it's not from some turkish/-insert mena minority- that used to inhabit some small cities or settlements.

By the way, 2% can be noise for sure, but 5% is not, you'd have to be half or similar to that some MENA to score so much.

All Romanians have some amount of steppe ancestry, mostly from Turkic (Cuman) and Avar/Iazyges populations that lived for quite a long time (we're talking centuries here) in the Eastern part of Romania. This influence is widespread and started very early, literally during the formation of Romanians as a people. This brings it's own South Asian genetics - on average around 1%, but this is normally distributed, so in rarer individuals will get over 5% without it being connected to Gypsies.

In other words, a 5% SA score is no guarantee of Gypsy ancestry - there are other important sources of SA genetics in the Balkans, that are very hard to untangle from the genuine Gypsy ones.

[Bigby]

6-7% South Asia on Eurogenes can be translated to abt 25% Romani.

They're called gipsies.


All Romanians have some amount of steppe ancestry, mostly from Turkic (Cuman) and Avar/Iazyges populations that lived for quite a long time (we're talking centuries here) in the Eastern part of Romania. This influence is widespread and started very early, literally during the formation of Romanians as a people. This brings it's own South Asian genetics - on average around 1%, but this is normally distributed, so in rarer individuals will get over 5% without it being connected to Gypsies.

In other words, a 5% SA score is no guarantee of Gypsy ancestry - there are other important sources of SA genetics in the Balkans, that are very hard to untangle from the genuine Gypsy ones.


We've all seen average Romanian results, 0% south asian, even 2% is uncommon and pushing it...yes, we had turkic people here, but when most romanians dont score south asian then you can't use this as an argument not to mention that those turkic tribes wherent indian, so :
-if we would have any signifiant south asian from them it would mean that we'd share probably majority of our blood with them.
-this 5%+ south asian on dna tests individuals occur in all Romania in equal proportions and is directly proportional on average to the number of gippos you see on the streets in that respective city.
- romanians who have 5%+ south asian on 23andme also share many gippo relatives.

Put 2 and 2 together and realize that in a country where 10% of people are gipsy mixed the mathematical chance for the 5% south asian to be some unlucky recombination(can't even occur when in great majority romanians score 0%) is greatly outnumbered by the chance for it to come from gipsies.

[JosephK]

Whatever happened to Impaler? The Romanian dude who consistently scored around 6% South Asian/Indian, but had no Romani/Roma/"Gypsy" blood... I don't think his parents even showed South Asian or Indian...

[CommonSense]

I was sort-of kidding. My point is that South Asian and/or South Central Asian (and anything else, MENA, etc) may show up or not show up in small percentages in plenty of people . Genetic assortment is random and not everybody inherits precisely 50% of each parent's DNA of any kind; if you look around this forum, you'll see lots of Eastern European Slavs and Northwest Europeans and whoever who may show small percentages of South Asian (etc). It doesn't mean that they're actually part Roma or Indian. Eurogenes does not really pick up any South Asian in me even though I know I have partial Roma ancestors (in fact, it sees more SA in my mother who's half Anglo and half Slovak). If you want to see if someone is part Roma, try looking for Roma DNA matches. If you're a small part Roma, you should find a bunch of "3-5th cousins" even though they're not really your cousins.

Yeah, my mom scores 2.8% South Asian on K13, but 0% on MyHeritage and she has no close Romani matches and very few matches who have any South Asian ancestry at all.

[CommonSense]

Whatever happened to Impaler? The Romanian dude who consistently scored around 6% South Asian/Indian, but had no Romani/Roma/"Gypsy" blood... I don't think his parents even showed South Asian or Indian...

According to Carpatz, he claimed to match with many Gypsies from all over.

[Cristiano viejo]

Amazing how there are not Gypsies in India, their homeland...

[Voskos]

For recent common ancestry (IBD sharing) between Europeans and respectively Turks and Roma , see here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6585392/bin/Data_Sheet_4.PDF

[ixulescu]

-if we would have any signifiant south asian from them it would mean that we'd share probably majority of our blood with them.

This makes zero sense.
1% SA means 1%, it does not imply we share the majority of the blood with Gypsies. what the fucking fuck.
1% SA is average over the samples from Ion Basescul, he has some 3 or 4 hundreds samples. He's reasonably careful to eliminate Gypsies from the Romanian group.



-this 5%+ south asian on dna tests individuals occur in all Romania in equal proportions and is directly proportional on average to the number of gippos you see on the streets in that respective city.


There is no such correlation, particularly in the South. The SA percentage is relatively constant over the entire ethnic Romanian sample, but it's somewhat higher in the more Eastern samples. Going by the looks alone it should be much higher in the South, but it's not, which means a lot of looks that Romanians associate with Gypsies are actually just MENA looks.

[Leto]

It depends what is other part of his ancestry? If it is West Asian for example?

No, she's Russian. Looks white like a bastard by the way, nowhere near similar to Gypsies xD
Here's the full result

Amerindian 0.08 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.48 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian 1.81 Pct
East_Central_Euro 18.2 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.75 Pct
Fennoscandian 26.01 Pct
French -
Iberian 4.31 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8 Pct
North_Caucasian 4.18 Pct
North_Sea 8.13 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.25 Pct
South_Asian 3.27 Pct
South_Central_Asian 2.26 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 3.25 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

[ixulescu]

Amazing how there are not Gypsies in India, their homeland...

That's a good point. There are lot of Gypsy-like populations in countries like India, Pakistan, Afganistan, etc. They are missing on that map.

[Bigby]

This makes zero sense.
1% SA means 1%, it does not imply we share the majority of the blood with Gypsies. what the fucking fuck.
1% SA is average over the samples from Ion Basescul, he has some 3 or 4 hundreds samples. He's reasonably careful to eliminate Gypsies from the Romanian group.



There is no such correlation, particularly in the South. The SA percentage is relatively constant over the entire ethnic Romanian sample, but it's somewhat higher in the more Eastern samples. Going by the looks alone it should be much higher in the South, but it's not, which means a lot of looks that Romanians associate with Gypsies are actually just MENA looks.

> 1% SA means 1%, it does not imply we share the majority of the blood with Gypsies. what the fucking fuck.

never said this, you're changing my words.

I've said that turkics themselves had very little south asian, they werent indians, so if the south asian today in romanians would've come from them then we'd have to share a good chunk of our ancestry with them and therefore there would be some obvious consequences like plotting out of Europe and having gook DNA in a good quantity(way above south asian). But that doesnt happen and when south Asian occurs in Romanians it comes with Indian proportions, devoit of east asian and anything else that turkics would've carried. Romanian East asian/siberian scores itself is not tied to the south asian that romanians score, so they didnt come together.

> 1% SA is average over the samples from Ion Basescul, he has some 3 or 4 hundreds samples. He's reasonably careful to eliminate Gypsies from the Romanian group.

And how many 5% south asian "romanians" he found out of those hundreds? You've nailed your own coffin.
https://i.ibb.co/v1ZCz95/image.png

Enjoy, 0.20-1% average in the south and 6% is 1/4 gipsy. Probably if we cut those with 2-3% we get to 0-0.2%, cause he only eliminates those 5%+( who unlike you, knows the absurdity of claiming those to be romanian) and those who openly admit of having gipsy ancestry.

[CommonSense]

Here's the full result

Amerindian 0.08 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.48 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian 1.81 Pct
East_Central_Euro 18.2 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.75 Pct
Fennoscandian 26.01 Pct
French -
Iberian 4.31 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8 Pct
North_Caucasian 4.18 Pct
North_Sea 8.13 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.25 Pct
South_Asian 3.27 Pct
South_Central_Asian 2.26 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 3.25 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Did you see her ethnicity estimate from 23andMe or whatever company she tested with? The scores of the components you highlighted are quite unusual.

[Dirdepo]

> 1% SA means 1%, it does not imply we share the majority of the blood with Gypsies. what the fucking fuck.

never said this, you're changing my words.

I've said that turkics themselves had very little south asian, they werent indians, so if the south asian today in romanians would've come from them then we'd have to share a good chunk of our ancestry with them and therefore there would be some obvious consequences like plotting out of Europe and having gook DNA in a good quantity(way above south asian). But that doesnt happen and when south Asian occurs in Romanians it comes with Indian proportions, devoit of east asian and anything else that turkics would've carried. Romanian East asian/siberian scores itself is not tied to the south asian that romanians score, so they didnt come together.

> 1% SA is average over the samples from Ion Basescul, he has some 3 or 4 hundreds samples. He's reasonably careful to eliminate Gypsies from the Romanian group.

And how many 5% south asian "romanians" he found out of those hundreds? You've nailed your own coffin.
https://i.ibb.co/v1ZCz95/image.png

Enjoy, 0.20-1% average in the south and 6% is 1/4 gipsy. Probably if we cut those with 2-3% we get to 0-0.2%, cause he only eliminates those 5%+( who unlike you, knows the absurdity of claiming those to be romanian) and those who openly admit of having gipsy ancestry.

1% in genetic testing means you are 1% more for your genetic group average, and the average Romanian is atleast partially or full Gypsy. So you are 1% more Gypsy than the Romanian average..

[Coastal Elite]

MyHeritage is the only company I know of that has genetic groups for Roma people. So if you score it there, then you likely are partially Roma, irrespective of how little South Asian you might score on GEDmatch-like calculators.

What makes you so sure that MyHeritage genetic groups are accurate? I get "high confidence" for an Eastern Euro Ashkenazi Jewish genetic group on MyHeritage but don't see it on any other results including my MyHeritage Ethnicity Estimate and have few full Jewish matches. Does MyHeritage have some special insight?

[Ion Basescul]

What makes you so sure that MyHeritage genetic groups are accurate? I get "high confidence" for an Eastern Euro Ashkenazi Jewish genetic group on MyHeritage but don't see it on any other results including my MyHeritage Ethnicity Estimate and have few full Jewish matches. Does MyHeritage have some special insight?

Groups like Jews and Romas are easy to pinpoint, because their mix is hard to replicate in other ethnicities. This is not like the problem of trying to differentiate the German from Northern French.

[Ion Basescul]

I'd rather hijack this thread than create a new one for one question since I dislike that very much.

Is it safe to assume that 3+% South_Asian and 2+% South_Central_Asian on K36 means genuine Romani ancestry?

Yep, it's a high K calculator, so it's probably credible. I'm not sure about South Central Asian. It seems like Iran Neolithic type of ancestry rather than pure Indian.
The full Romas that score 24-25% South Asian on K13 still retain similar percentages for the South Asian component on K36. South Central Asian is usually 1/3rd to 1/4th of that amount.
And there are plenty of people who are not Romas and score 0% South Asian, but they have some trace in South Central Asian.

Some examples of full Romas


Amerindian -
Arabian 0.58 Pct
Armenian 5.96 Pct
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.37 Pct
East_Central_Asian 1.1 Pct
East_Central_Euro 6.19 Pct
East_Med 7.78 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 5.16 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 14.18 Pct
Malayan 0.98 Pct
Near_Eastern 6.4 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 3.65 Pct
North_Sea 2.31 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.34 Pct
Omotic 0.45 Pct
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.3 Pct
South_Asian 24.29 Pct
South_Central_Asian 8.36 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 1.8 Pct
West_Med 2.79 Pct


Amerindian -
Arabian 5.47 Pct
Armenian -
Basque 2.13 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.01 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 4 Pct
East_Med 9.71 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 1.68 Pct
French -
Iberian 4.21 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 8.12 Pct
Malayan 0.79 Pct
Near_Eastern 4.11 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 5.8 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 0.99 Pct
Oceanian 0.71 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.66 Pct
South_Asian 23.01 Pct
South_Central_Asian 9.79 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.26 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian 7.2 Pct
West_Med 4.31 Pct


Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 3.99 Pct
Basque 0.34 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.61 Pct
East_African 0.87 Pct
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.49 Pct
East_Med 19.92 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 2.33 Pct
French -
Iberian 9.55 Pct
Indo-Chinese 0.88 Pct
Italian 13.44 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 1.53 Pct
North_Caucasian 5.41 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.68 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 1.96 Pct
South_Asian 22.85 Pct
South_Central_Asian 6.46 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.36 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.29 Pct
West_Med -

[Ion Basescul]

You can bet their present day descendants score above 2% South Asian, yet they have no Gypsy ancestry.

Bet is a strong word. People with genuine Roma ancestry will have plenty of full Roma matches near the top, just like those with Ashkenazi Jewish. This is very easy to verify.

[Ion Basescul]

And how many 5% south asian "romanians" he found out of those hundreds? You've nailed your own coffin.
https://i.ibb.co/v1ZCz95/image.png



30 out of 1.268 samples in the database are 1/4 Roma genetically
16 - 1/2
18 - full

[Leto]

Did you see her ethnicity estimate from 23andMe or whatever company she tested with? The scores of the components you highlighted are quite unusual.
No, unfortunately. I'd like to see her 23andme myself.

[Leto]

Yep, it's a high K calculator, so it's probably credible. I'm not sure about South Central Asian. It seems like Iran Neolithic type of ancestry rather than pure Indian.
The full Romas that score 24-25% South Asian on K13 still retain similar percentages for the South Asian component on K36. South Central Asian is usually 1/3rd to 1/4th of that amount.
And there are plenty of people who are not Romas and score 0% South Asian, but they have some trace in South Central Asian.

Some examples of full Romas


Amerindian -
Arabian 0.58 Pct
Armenian 5.96 Pct
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.37 Pct
East_Central_Asian 1.1 Pct
East_Central_Euro 6.19 Pct
East_Med 7.78 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 5.16 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 14.18 Pct
Malayan 0.98 Pct
Near_Eastern 6.4 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 3.65 Pct
North_Sea 2.31 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.34 Pct
Omotic 0.45 Pct
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.3 Pct
South_Asian 24.29 Pct
South_Central_Asian 8.36 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 1.8 Pct
West_Med 2.79 Pct


Amerindian -
Arabian 5.47 Pct
Armenian -
Basque 2.13 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.01 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 4 Pct
East_Med 9.71 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 1.68 Pct
French -
Iberian 4.21 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 8.12 Pct
Malayan 0.79 Pct
Near_Eastern 4.11 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 5.8 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 0.99 Pct
Oceanian 0.71 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.66 Pct
South_Asian 23.01 Pct
South_Central_Asian 9.79 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.26 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian 7.2 Pct
West_Med 4.31 Pct


Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 3.99 Pct
Basque 0.34 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.61 Pct
East_African 0.87 Pct
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.49 Pct
East_Med 19.92 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 2.33 Pct
French -
Iberian 9.55 Pct
Indo-Chinese 0.88 Pct
Italian 13.44 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 1.53 Pct
North_Caucasian 5.41 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.68 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 1.96 Pct
South_Asian 22.85 Pct
South_Central_Asian 6.46 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.36 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.29 Pct
West_Med -

I see. Well, there is no shortage of Romani kits on Gedmatch (plenty of adoptees with Western names). 3% means ca. 1/8 Romani, a bit less than what people like Impaler get. I wonder how much your 1/4 Romani average would be.

[Lucas]

Here's the full result

Amerindian 0.08 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.48 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian 1.81 Pct
East_Central_Euro 18.2 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.75 Pct
Fennoscandian 26.01 Pct
French -
Iberian 4.31 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8 Pct
North_Caucasian 4.18 Pct
North_Sea 8.13 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.25 Pct
South_Asian 3.27 Pct
South_Central_Asian 2.26 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 3.25 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

I can say rather tiny Gypsy admixture really. 5-6% isn't visible in pheno (it is not SSA) so could be.

[Peterski]

Some examples of full Romas

I made an average from those 3 and called it Romania_Roma. Interesting why are they closer to Gitanos than to Yugoslav Roma?:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
ES_Spain-Gitanos
0.9123651
BIH_Yugoslavia-Roma
0.9959729
PRT_Portugal-Gitanos
1.1762806
(...)

[Bigby]

30 out of 1.268 samples in the database are 1/4 Roma genetically
16 - 1/2
18 - full

64 out of 1.2k, so about 5% and keep in mind that gippos are poorer and far less interested in this anthro stuff.

What is your estimation for the gippo population of Romania(4-5% south asian +), I wager not below 10%, but for some reasons ixulescu likes to not just downplay this but also make it appear like they're ancient MENA/turkics remainings and that our actual "very tiny" gipsy population is actually integrated even.

[Leto]

I can say rather tiny Gypsy admixture really. 5-6% isn't visible in pheno (it is not SSA) so could be.
Well, even some half Tziganes can be white-passing because they are a mixed population to begin with. So with more distant Tzigane roots one can look as white as a Waffen-SS soldier.

[Ion Basescul]

I made an average from those 3 and called it Romania_Roma. Interesting why are they closer to Gitanos than to Yugoslav Roma?:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
ES_Spain-Gitanos
0.9123651
BIH_Yugoslavia-Roma
0.9959729
PRT_Portugal-Gitanos
1.1762806
(...)

K36 is probably not the best calculator for distance checking. Everyone gets high distances like above, not only Romas.

[Ion Basescul]

64 out of 1.2k, so about 5% and keep in mind that gippos are poorer and far less interested in this anthro stuff.

What is your estimation for the gippo population of Romania(4-5% south asian +), I wager not below 10%, but for some reasons ixulescu likes to not just downplay this but also make it appear like they're ancient MENA/turkics remainings and that our actual "very tiny" gipsy population is actually integrated even.

No idea, I would say about 20% full Roma for those in the 20- age category. And that's conservative.

[Bigby]

Well, even some half Tziganes can be white-passing because they are a mixed population to begin with. So with more distant Tzigane roots one can look as white as a Waffen-SS soldier.

This is very rare in Romania, in general even most quarter gipsies are visibly gipsy to most romanians, let alone to a trained eye(someone with a hate for gipsies).

[Peterski]

K36 is probably not the best calculator for distance checking.

K36 is the best calculator on GEDmatch. With an average based on all 18 kits it could be different.

But maybe it is indeed true that Romanian Gypsies are closer to Spanish than to Bosnian Gypsies.

Spanish Gypsies do not have local admixture as a rule, their European admixture is SE European.

[Ion Basescul]

This is very rare in Romania, in general even most quarter gipsies are visibly gipsy to most romanians, let alone to a trained eye(someone with a hate for gipsies).

1/2 is hard to guess for the untrained eye and 1/4 is next to impossible. I have plenty of examples from the database. That's why I can only guess the number of full Romas, since the mixes are hard to estimate by looks alone.

[Leto]

This is very rare in Romania, in general even most quarter gipsies are visibly gipsy to most romanians, let alone to a trained eye(someone with a hate for gipsies).
If that's actually true, that may be because Romanians in general are darker than Central and Northeastern Europeans (needless to mention Northwestern Euros). Someone who is half Polish, 1/4 Tzigane and 1/4 German is likely to look fully European in most cases. Hell, many quarter Indians would pass as full Europeans because their main genetic component is still West Eurasian.
You do realize the Balkan Roma are only about 1/3 South Indian.

Target: Roma_Balkans
Distance: 1.2076% / 0.01207580
46.8 Greek_Macedonia
33.4 Chamar
19.8 Greek_Cappadocia

[Ion Basescul]

K36 is the best calculator on GEDmatch.

It is supposed to be the most accurate at assigning components in general.
But for the purpose of checking distances and modelling, it is terrible.
I tried to make averages with 50 samples from Moldova and it didn't look convincing.




Ocnita,0,0.36,2.89,4.88,0,5.67,0,0,10.24,0,15.96,4 .04,11.32,5.24,7.25,4.76,0,8.1,0,0,0,6.04,1.13,3.8 2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.12,0,0,5.17
Briceni_1,0.06,0,2.42,1.67,0,8.85,0,0,9.65,0,17.33 ,4.16,12.39,9.54,5.92,4.37,0,5.73,0,2.1,0.12,1.53, 6.1,5.8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.26,0,0,0
Briceni_2,0,0,0,2.87,0,6.38,0,0,6.63,0,14.36,5.12, 7.79,10.75,3.46,5.48,0,10.68,0,2.35,0,2.07,8.81,8. 13,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.27,0,1.86,0
Donduseni,0,0.2,0.07,1.78,0,10.65,0,0,10.85,0,12.0 5,5.2,11.22,8.3,3.15,9.26,0,11.57,0,2.9,0,8.67,0,1 .48,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.67,0,0,0
Drochia,0,0,0.27,0,0,11.62,0,0,6.78,0,16.3,0.11,8. 53,7.54,7.85,3.58,0,12.65,0,2.08,1.84,6.09,9.73,0. 4,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.64,0,3.97,0
Edinet_1,0,0.63,6.47,0,0,7.48,0,0,9.78,0,17.32,0,1 0.97,7.69,7.41,7.2,0,2.87,0,1.24,1.08,3.42,2.4,10. 93,0,0,0,0,0.66,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.38
Edinet_2,0,1.94,4.47,1.65,0,6.21,0,0,12.28,0,17,0, 14.23,1.22,2.15,10.34,0,12.25,0,0,0.63,2.28,4.04,2 .72,0,0.14,0,0,0.2,0,1.12,0,2.01,0,1.52,1.59
Balti_1,0,1.14,0,0,0,5.84,0,0,9.79,0,12.69,2.08,19 .83,4.44,3.36,7.28,0,9.84,0,3.49,0,4.45,7.66,5.97, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.49,0,0,0.63
Glodeni_1,0.23,0,1.51,2.96,0,9.95,0,0.31,10.96,0,1 5.5,2.57,12.32,5.77,4.98,13.21,0,0,0,0,0,0.99,10.3 3,4.5,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.98,0,0,2.88
Glodeni_2,0,0,1.48,1.09,0,2.81,0,0,9.83,0,13.97,0, 14.23,8.78,0,7.61,0,16.36,0,4.21,0,4.16,5.61,3.69, 0,0,0,0,0,0,2.68,0,1.56,0,0.68,1.25
Singerei_1,0,1.25,0,1.8,0,4.8,0,0,9.26,0,16.15,0,1 1.29,4.93,1.99,8.47,0,14.97,0,1.87,0,4.07,6.17,6.5 ,0,0.64,0,0.14,0,0,0,0,3.61,0,0.15,1.95
Singerei_2,0,0,2.52,0.37,0,7.03,0,0,11.15,0,11.8,7 .4,12.29,6.84,0,8.11,0.14,16.95,0,4.96,0,1.26,1.52 ,1.25,0,0.07,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.09,0,3.08,2.18
Singerei_3,0.64,0.57,0.36,2.56,0,8.46,0,0,10.58,0, 14.95,3.17,11.01,5.17,1.66,6.03,0.05,7.48,0,5.59,0 ,3.73,3.32,7.51,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.61,0,1.81,0,2.43,2.3 1
Singerei_4,0,0.44,0.62,2.11,0,8.67,0,0,11.57,0,16. 93,0,8.34,7.39,0,11.09,0,8.95,0,2.81,0,3.76,4.46,6 .62,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.35,0,0,2.84
Floresti,0,1.12,1.97,0.07,0,11.84,0,0,7.61,0,13.87 ,7.57,12.02,12.01,1.77,4.39,0,6.96,0,0.47,0,6.58,5 .8,3.26,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.09,0,0.59,0
Balti_2,0,0.57,2.83,0,0,3.68,0,0,10.31,0,18.09,4.5 3,9.07,5.82,3.75,17.67,0,6.55,0,0,0,5.44,3.76,6.41 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.58,0.29,0,0,0.63
Balti_3,0,0.83,2.12,1.17,0,2.21,0,0,10.34,0,19.08, 1.88,10.36,5.33,4.67,8.81,0,10.56,0,0.68,0,3.08,5. 83,6.92,0.54,0.07,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.01,0,0,3.51
Soldanesti,0.56,0.91,0.76,0,0,6.58,0,0,9.62,0,20.1 7,4.06,10.53,4.1,0.68,12.46,0,9.98,0,3.02,0.24,0.9 7,7.94,4.89,0,0,0,0.18,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,1.23
Falesti,0,0.07,1.75,1.7,0,5.83,0,0,9.92,0,15.2,2.8 1,12.19,5.94,2.35,10.62,0,11.45,0,1.95,0,2.56,4.5, 6.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,4.13,0,0,0.87
Orhei_IonBasescul_dad,0.53,0,2.78,1.39,0,10.74,0,0 ,14.29,0,15.01,0,12.99,1.56,6.68,6.12,0,10.36,0,0, 0,5.02,5.94,2.7,0,0,0,0.55,0,0,0.23,0,0.77,0,2.34, 0
Ungheni_1,0,0,2.08,0.05,0,10.17,0,0,9.24,0,12.64,2 .96,9.75,9,0,11.76,0,4.46,0,4.17,0,3.97,9.63,6.2,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.96,0,0,2.94
Ungheni_2,0,0,3.21,0,0,9.35,0,0,4.61,0,14.55,0,10. 28,1.82,0,6.42,0,14.65,0,4.95,0,6.36,5.94,3.56,0,0 ,0,0,0,0.95,0.08,0,1.87,0,6.36,5.01
Nisporeni,0,0.32,3.27,1.57,0,9.85,0,0,7.24,0,13.88 ,3.14,6.08,8.32,0.12,6.63,0,16.39,0,0.56,1.35,7.87 ,7.05,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.78,0,0,0.22
Straseni,1.17,2.73,3.31,1.25,0,5.66,0,0,8.51,0,12. 13,1.18,14.2,6.86,1.99,3.61,0,12.36,0,3.21,0,5.88, 2.12,8.44,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.4,0,0,0,0,2.96
Chisinau_IonBasescul,0,0,6.34,2.17,0,10.87,0,1.76, 7.95,0,13.73,3.69,9.42,5.27,3.85,6.17,0,6.91,0,1.4 3,0,3.98,1.47,8.89,0,0,0,0,0.07,0,0,0,1.52,0,2.15, 2.34
Chisinau_IonBasescul_brother,0.33,0,4.91,2.49,0,8. 95,0,0,10.98,0,16.47,1.21,11.8,3.32,5.66,0,0,9.8,0 .65,2.76,0,6.99,3.95,3.77,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.14,0,0,0,2 .18,2.61
Chisinau_1,0,2.27,5.28,2.95,0,7.29,0,0,8.45,0,14.4 2,2.82,6.95,2.87,5.41,0,0,2.66,0,2.69,1.55,7.65,6. 8,8.31,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,3.93,0,0.18,7.53
Chisinau_2,0,3.46,1.23,1.19,0,4.21,0,0,7.35,0,13.5 7,3.48,14,5.34,1.34,10.53,0.28,11.89,0,0,0,7.26,4. 88,0,0,0.48,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.77,0,1.89,5.85
Ialoveni_1,0,2.47,0,0,0,1.79,0,0,8.23,0,15.24,0,9. 86,4.62,7.78,4.23,0.26,16.32,0,6.89,0,6.03,4.11,5. 51,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.16,0,0,2.72,3.75
Ialoveni_2,0,1.17,0.69,3.12,0,8.15,0,0,10.52,0,9.6 8,0.5,11.61,4.97,5.51,15.4,0,10.16,0,4.88,0,3.94,4 .15,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.16,0.09,0,1.03,0,1.81,2.46
Ialoveni_3,0,0,2.91,1.56,0,8.52,0,0,13.88,0,16.95, 3.73,7.06,5.31,0,10.66,0,10.5,0.26,0,0,2.86,6.81,4 .81,0,0,0,0,0,0.41,1.83,0,0.73,0.61,0,0.55
Hincesti_1,0,0,10.67,1.53,0,2.91,0,0,13.39,0.68,19 .9,8.45,8.83,8.43,0.88,1.28,0,6.99,0,0,0,7.02,0,3. 95,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.72,0,3.3,1.06
Hincesti_2,0,0,1.46,0,0,2.62,0,0,9.21,0,13.39,6.02 ,8.04,10.7,1.18,9.35,0,19.48,0,0.87,0,3.33,4.45,0. 57,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.25,0,3.09,0,2.93,2.04
Causeni_1,0.47,0,0.64,0,0,8.5,0,0,13.36,0,9.89,4.3 9,6.42,0,0,12.11,0,17.32,0,1.44,0.95,6.38,8.68,4.6 7,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.52,0,0,2.22
Causeni_2,0,0.91,0,0.09,0,4.56,0,0,4.54,0,17.4,3.5 4,9.63,5.13,5.86,7.81,0,17.87,0,3.08,0,2.22,0.29,5 .86,0,0.79,0,0.06,0,0,3.97,0,0.92,0,4.3,1.17
Cimislia_1,0,0,1.46,0,0,2.62,0,0,9.21,0,13.39,6.02 ,8.04,10.7,1.18,9.35,0,19.48,0,0.87,0,3.33,4.45,0. 57,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.25,0,3.09,0,2.93,2.04
Cantemir_1,0,0,1.5,1.55,0.32,2.47,0,0,8.66,0,7.63, 9.46,3.1,5.84,2.04,13.38,0,19.84,0,4.24,0,2.57,5.5 7,4.13,0,0,0,0,0.23,0,0,0.94,1.96,0,0.06,4.51
Cantemir_2,0,0.13,0,0.23,0,4.19,0,0,9.59,0,11.48,5 .82,11.33,5.94,0,7.34,0,19.55,0.72,4.15,0.95,5.87, 0.43,4.65,0,0,0,0,0.12,0,0,0,1.67,0,1.83,3.98
Cahul_1,0,0,2.51,0,0,2.96,0,0,8.58,0.56,12.55,8.69 ,4.65,9.69,5.2,11.05,0,13.27,0,5.38,0,3.45,4.69,1. 76,0,0,0,0,0,0.57,0,0,0,0,3.22,1.22
Cahul_2,0,0,1.31,0,0,4.98,0,0,7.74,0.07,12.56,4.56 ,10.38,8.15,3.41,4.54,0,22.09,0,3.39,0,0,0.22,6.11 ,0,0.47,0,0,0,0,4.14,0,0.64,0,1.71,3.54
Caplani_1,0,5.57,5.7,0,0,1.13,0,0,9.24,0,12.21,3.3 7,3.93,4.38,1.2,8.95,0,17.28,0,3,1.77,1.44,5.03,11 .84,0,0,0,0.11,0,0,0,0,0,0,2.69,1.17
Caplani_2,0.33,3.79,3.86,0,0,6.88,0,0,7.36,0,13.41 ,3.39,3.77,2.72,1.58,6.27,0,19.58,0,6.46,0,1.87,6. 58,7.09,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.91,0,0.83,0,1.96,0.34
Caplani_3,0,4.86,4.27,2.18,0,8.26,0,0,9.41,0,11.15 ,0,1.57,6.62,2.13,0,0,16.4,0.52,10.48,0,0.4,10.48, 1.46,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.86,7.95
Caplani_4,0,0.23,7.59,0.78,0,0.49,0,0,13.85,0,6.96 ,5.18,6.73,0.27,1.83,5.9,0,15.57,0,6.14,0.33,2.84, 6.83,10.35,0,0.02,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.27,0,0.57,7.27
Caplani_5,0,0,1.96,3.59,0,4.8,0,0.65,12.19,0,6.76, 9.94,7.87,3.99,6.36,0,0,17.43,0,5.06,0,0,4.1,6.1,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.93,7.26
Caplani_6,0,2.78,0,1.49,0,5.92,0,0,5.95,0,7.32,14. 17,10.95,4.34,4.32,10.03,0,18.43,0,0,0,0,4.25,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,4.59,5.45
Caplani_7,0,4.19,1.83,2.34,0,4.02,0,0,8.79,0,7.26, 5.82,11,0,0,11.17,0,21.25,0,1.5,0,0.14,4.44,7.25,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.3,0,1.35,6.36
Caplani_8,0,5.38,0,0,0,2.29,0,0,5.49,0,15.81,11.43 ,5.37,5.59,0,7.95,0,15.03,0,3.52,0,4.21,1.19,10.1, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.91,0,2.95,2.77
Caplani_9,0,1.4,1.35,0,0,4.48,0,0,4.59,0,7.56,11.3 2,13.04,4.35,1.66,7.67,0,16.31,0,4.41,0.04,4.37,2. 42,5.88,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.12,0,6.91,2.15
Caplani_10,0,1.42,5.98,0,0,1.67,0,0,8.29,0,7.61,1. 95,9.15,5.01,0,9.2,0,17.23,0,3.15,0.02,8.25,7.25,9 .02,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,4.8




Moldova_North,0.08,0.53,1.71,1.40,0.00,7.08,0.00,0 .02,9.85,0.00,15.72,2.88,11.58,6.67,3.28,8.46,0.01 ,9.68,0.00,2.09,0.21,3.74,5.22,5.10,0.03,0.05,0.00 ,0.02,0.05,0.00,0.23,0.03,1.91,0.00,0.81,1.55
Moldova_Centre,0.15,0.89,3.44,1.38,0.00,7.22,0.00, 0.13,9.56,0.05,14.40,2.66,10.06,5.60,2.89,6.58,0.0 4,10.92,0.07,2.32,0.21,5.58,4.81,4.36,0.00,0.03,0. 00,0.04,0.01,0.11,0.50,0.01,1.30,0.04,1.85,2.81
Moldova_South,0.05,1.80,2.35,0.72,0.02,4.13,0.00,0 .04,8.64,0.04,10.64,6.41,7.47,4.87,2.16,7.81,0.00, 17.88,0.07,3.90,0.24,2.78,4.52,5.70,0.00,0.08,0.00 ,0.01,0.02,0.03,0.66,0.06,0.84,0.00,2.29,3.78

[Peterski]

These Romanian Roma are scoring some "Dobruja Turk" in nMonte. Maybe they mixed with Turkic-speakers in Dobruja.

They also have Bulgarian-like and Greek-like admixtures, apparently both from various parts of historical Thrace.

[CommonSense]

If that's actually true, that may be because Romanians in general are darker than Central and Northeastern Europeans (needless to mention Northwestern Euros). Someone who is half Polish, 1/4 Tzigane and 1/4 German is likely to look fully European in most cases. Hell, many quarter Indians would pass as full Europeans because their main genetic component is still West Eurasian.
You do realize the Balkan Roma are only about 1/3 South Indian.

Target: Roma_Balkans
Distance: 1.2076% / 0.01207580
46.8 Greek_Macedonia
33.4 Chamar
19.8 Greek_Cappadocia

Many do, but those 1/4 Indians are usually Punjabi or something. Chamars have very high ASI.

[reboun]

Angola?????

I am also surprised by that.

[Lucas]

Well, even some half Tziganes can be white-passing because they are a mixed population to begin with. So with more distant Tzigane roots one can look as white as a Waffen-SS soldier.

One user comes to my mind, when you talk about Gypsy and German uniforms:)

[Mortimer]

MyHeritage is the only company I know of that has genetic groups for Roma people. So if you score it there, then you likely are partially Roma, irrespective of how little South Asian you might score on GEDmatch-like calculators.

Ancestrydna also has genetic group for roma