German and Polish samples (NEW PROJECT)

[mariusz99]

Some time ago I received the most accurate report based on G25. Only this report showed my mother German sample which could be intepreted as Western Germany. Right region and percentages. This report was so good even with all individual Polish samples. But all Polish and German samples are not so good.

I'd like to start new project. I'd like to select the most representative German and Polish individual samples and
fit to regions. For example: German 63 could be fitted to Schleswig-Holstein, German 66 to Central/Western Germany and so on. G25 gives us French samples with regions but Polish and German not. In the future I'd like to make the same with Dutch, Ukrainian, Austrian and English samples.

I want to extract the best German and Polish samples , which are "pure" Germanic and Polish to make the best model.

I'd like to get to know your opinions about my idea. Maybe it would be better with medieval samples? I'm not an expert, it's only my idea. I hope someone will help me or tell me how to do it with good quality.

Best regards

[Peterski]

Here I added some Polish regional samples (including Wielkopolska Poles for whom I have G25 coordinates) to G25 North Europe PCA:

(Kociewie is a sub-region of Pomerelia / West Prussia, which is directly neighbouring Kashubia, but they speak Wielkopolska dialect)

https://i.imgur.com/5e4wtIt.png

I wonder where are Polish10 and Polish11 from, these two are some of the most west-shifted among Davidski's Polish reference Poles.

[vbnetkhio]

Here I added some Polish regional samples (including Wielkopolska Poles for whom I have G25 coordinates) to G25 North Europe PCA:

(Kociewie is a sub-region of Pomerelia / West Prussia, which is directly neighbouring Kashubia, but they speak Wielkopolska dialect)

https://i.imgur.com/5e4wtIt.png

I wonder where are Polish10 and Polish11 from, these two are some of the most west-shifted among Davidski's Polish reference Poles.

The Polish samples in G25 look too Ukrainian-shifted and probably unrepresentative for most of Poland, I wonder where they are from.

[Peterski]

The Polish samples in G25 look too Ukrainian-shifted and probably unrepresentative for most of Poland, I wonder where they are from.

Why do you think so?

Wielkopolska is among the most western Polish subgroups. It makes sense that it plots in the western half of Polish cluster.

[vbnetkhio]

Why do you think so?

Wielkopolska is among the most western Polish subgroups. It makes sense that it plots in the western half of Polish cluster.

they have high overlap with Ukrainians, and overall look like Ukrainian + German. From what I saw on Gedmatch this is true only for areas close to the Carpathians.and most Poles have this "Balto-Scandinavian" shift, which peaks in Kashubians.
https://i.imgur.com/VsQvj7n.png

[vbnetkhio]

look where the Polish averages cluster in K13:
https://i.imgur.com/ePItrzx.png

[rothaer]

look where the Polish averages cluster in K13:
https://i.imgur.com/ePItrzx.png

Hmm, you know what?

I think that both plottings (G25 and K13) are true.

Consider that a two-dimensional PCA is a brutal simplificattion and loss of information. Consider also how different you can be placed with G25 on the North Europe, the Europe1 and the Europe2 PCA. Nothing of this is not applicable. All these things are different aspects of the truth.

Conclusion: Having Poles plotting different on that K13 PCA compared to the G25 North Europe PCA is not sufficient for assuming the G25 samples to be different (or even invalid).

[vbnetkhio]

Hmm, you know what?

I think that both plottings (G25 and K13) are true.

Consider that a two-dimensional PCA is a brutal simplificattion and loss of information. Consider also how different you can be placed with G25 on the North Europe, the Europe1 and the Europe2 PCA. Nothing of this is not applicable. All these things are different aspects of the truth.

Conclusion: Having Poles plotting different on that K13 PCA compared to the G25 North Europe PCA is not sufficient for assuming the G25 samples to be different (or even invalid).

K13 and G25 usually match each other well, especially on the Europe1 PCA.
It's possible that G25 isn't good at detecting this "Balto-Scandianvian" shift, but I doubt it, I think these in G25 are really mostly Southeastern or Lviv poles.