Western Ukrainian Genetics

[Abriekman]

The genetic make-up of the population from the Western Ukrainian regions is an interesting topic. While people from there do show some Balkan genetic influences as would be expected given the region's history, there are also significant amounts of Western European ancestry that can be shown by G25 modelling.

To explore the breakdown of these genetic influences I created a model using 3 reference populations:

- Ukrainians from the Rivne province as a proxy for Eastern Slavic admixture
- Serbs as a proxy for Balkan admixture ( even though Serbs are 55-65% Slavic I think it is still better to use
Serb samples than to find a fully Balkanic ancient sample of low coverage )
- Scandinavians ( Norwegian, Swedish, Danish ) as a proxy for Western European/Germanic admixture

The results of Galicia Ukrainian averages

Target: Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
Distance: 1.7156% / 0.01715564
67.8 Ukrainian_Rivne
15.4 Norwegian_Bergen
14.8 Serb
2.0 Norwegian


Target: Ukrainian_Ternopil
Distance: 2.3653% / 0.02365267
51.0 Ukrainian_Rivne
36.6 Serb_Bosnia
12.4 Norwegian_Bergen


Target: East_Europe:Ukrainian_Lviv
Distance: 0.7899% / 0.00789940 | R3P
67.4 Ukrainian_Rivne
16.4 Serb
11.8 Serb_Croatia
4.4 Swedish


While Ukrainian Lviv average shows Slavic, minor Carpathian/Balkanic admixture and trace of Northwest European DNA which isn't significant, modelling of Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk Ukrainians shows that over 10% of the genetic makeup of people from Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk has Western European admixture

Please feel free to share any relevant comments, data, or studies on this topic.

( The coordinates of the samples were taken from The Moriopoulos Collection )

[ugochaves]

There is hardly any sharp border between Western and eastern Ukrainians. From east to west there is a gradual increase of the German element and at the same time the Balkan one.

[vandor]

delete

[Russki]

These parts of Ukraine have a Celtic (French-like) affinity much more than a Germanic one.

If you add French (Celtic-like) references almost all of Germanic will disappear.


https://sun9-3.userapi.com/impg/w7dZj3ZRC96_tceTTc8B0k59D_jlSqYp_8Osxw/hSOHYz-KGrk.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=5fb674c5bba41e7388c3850b0a473ee6&type=album

https://sun9-34.userapi.com/impg/ez3qs86YtMIYusIihx-tdaEODu64r5b-M8DKww/Al1Ko4KKaPs.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=3777166548c9dbb50a43990c5448f82f&type=album

https://sun9-19.userapi.com/impg/3kF2tNttwlm7K5TiXi-EGQFuektVCfLREJz1Ug/95lb87CL0LE.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=b998e599b17efc1c039a16c9505b9aad&type=album

[Loki]

Could the Germanic be remnants of ancient Gothic influence in the region?

[Russki]

Could the Germanic be remnants of ancient Gothic influence in the region?


Parts of Ukraine are an old Celtic territory.


https://sun9-5.userapi.com/impg/Uhzgg2svDedydkiaMyJX2MMUOe-cVqUmND-GOQ/s344ogKQiFg.jpg?size=960x661&quality=96&sign=74fa4c8af48bb0d6f88e33003a2d743f&type=album



If you add both Celtic and Germanic references to the calculator, the algorithm will pick up the Celtic ones.

[Blondie]

Could the Germanic be remnants of ancient Gothic influence in the region?

There were many german in Ukraine:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Deutsche_Siedlungsgebiete_in_Osteuropa_1925.jpg/800px-Deutsche_Siedlungsgebiete_in_Osteuropa_1925.jpg

[vandor]

There were many german in Ukraine:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Deutsche_Siedlungsgebiete_in_Osteuropa_1925.jpg/800px-Deutsche_Siedlungsgebiete_in_Osteuropa_1925.jpg

That's mostly newcomers from 19th up to beginning of 20th century who lived in ethnic villages, most of them were repressed in 30s just like Volga Germans, they literally didn't leave a trace there

[Abriekman]

These parts of Ukraine have a Celtic (French-like) affinity much more than a Germanic one.

If you add French (Celtic-like) references almost all of Germanic will disappear.


https://sun9-3.userapi.com/impg/w7dZj3ZRC96_tceTTc8B0k59D_jlSqYp_8Osxw/hSOHYz-KGrk.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=5fb674c5bba41e7388c3850b0a473ee6&type=album

https://sun9-34.userapi.com/impg/ez3qs86YtMIYusIihx-tdaEODu64r5b-M8DKww/Al1Ko4KKaPs.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=3777166548c9dbb50a43990c5448f82f&type=album

https://sun9-19.userapi.com/impg/3kF2tNttwlm7K5TiXi-EGQFuektVCfLREJz1Ug/95lb87CL0LE.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=b998e599b17efc1c039a16c9505b9aad&type=album

This is a true, but French contains a mix of Celto-Germanic-Roman. Anyway it's all Western European and relatively similar to each other but the fact that it's so high is surprising, because if we compare them with South Poland, which always has been influenced by Celts there is less of that.

Target: S_Polish-1
Distance: 1.5730% / 0.01572953
66.8 Ukrainian_Rivne
23.2 Serb_Bosnia
10.0 French_Oïl_Centre-Val_de_Loire_Indre

Without French :

Target: S_Polish-1
Distance: 1.6887% / 0.01688720
65.2 Ukrainian_Rivne
25.8 Serb
6.8 Danish
2.2 Swedish

[Dušan]

https://i.imgur.com/uOPqkRH.png

[rothaer]

Could the Germanic be remnants of ancient Gothic influence in the region?

To my conviction not. Such Germanics are said to have contributed to proto Slavs with 5% maybe and in the Western Ukarine we are pretty close to the Slavic urheimat. Because of that I'd expect all Germanic remnants in that region to be part of whatever Slavic reference. I think that Germanic surpluses in that region will have other sources. Even Ukrainisized Western and Northern Poles, carrying a Germanic spurplus compared to Ukrainians, are possible.

[rothaer]

That's mostly newcomers from 19th up to beginning of 20th century who lived in ethnic villages, most of them were repressed in 30s just like Volga Germans, they literally didn't leave a trace there

As for those in Wolhynia that came as late as 1860 and had differing regligions to the indigenous population, I agree.

Not sure about 18th century catholic German settlers in Eastern Galicia, though.

[Abriekman]

There is hardly any sharp border between Western and eastern Ukrainians. From east to west there is a gradual increase of the German element and at the same time the Balkan one.

There is. Zhytomyr and Vinnytsa Ukrainians have very low to no Balkan or West European admixture at all, while living close to Galicia. I have seen results of Ukrainian from Vinnitsa Oblast and on Gedmatch the closest population to him by distance were Smolensk Russians

[vandor]

As for those in Wolhynia that came as late as 1860 and had differing regligions to the indigenous population, I agree.

Not sure about 18th century catholic German settlers in Eastern Galicia, though.

I'm talking about Southern colonies in Odessa, Nikolaev, Kherson, Dnepr, Donbass regions.

[Russki]

This is a true, but French contains a mix of Celto-Germanic-Roman.


If you replace French and Norwegians with the ancient references for Celts and Germanics, the result will remain more or less the same.

Lviv and Ternopil have virtually no Germanic admixture and Ivano-Frankivsk has a little.

It would be useful to see non-aggregated Ivano-Frankivsk individuals to see if there are some outliers among them.

Ivano-Frankivsk is located South-East from Lviv and it is hard to explain how Ivano-Frankivsk would have a Germanic admixture while Lviv doesn't have any:


https://sun9-64.userapi.com/impg/UnVj0cxmmr8AV6fVtsssww5C_qw-6IHSxpjmgQ/TzS4jtIAtZk.jpg?size=391x585&quality=95&sign=7e0219a7b14024dbd7529ab529668689&type=album



Anyway it's all Western European


France and Norway are both Western European nations politically, but genetically differentiating them is not difficult.



the fact that it's so high is surprising, because if we compare them with South Poland, which always has been influenced by Celts there is less of that.

Target: S_Polish-1
Distance: 1.5730% / 0.01572953
66.8 Ukrainian_Rivne
23.2 Serb_Bosnia
10.0 French_Oïl_Centre-Val_de_Loire_Indre

Without French :

Target: S_Polish-1
Distance: 1.6887% / 0.01688720
65.2 Ukrainian_Rivne
25.8 Serb
6.8 Danish
2.2 Swedish


It means that the Celtic influence came to Ukraine from the direction of Slovakia.

Slovakia is more Celtic-influenced than any part of Poland.

[LaSentinelle]

These parts of Ukraine have a Celtic (French-like) affinity much more than a Germanic one.

If you add French (Celtic-like) references almost all of Germanic will disappear.


https://sun9-3.userapi.com/impg/w7dZj3ZRC96_tceTTc8B0k59D_jlSqYp_8Osxw/hSOHYz-KGrk.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=5fb674c5bba41e7388c3850b0a473ee6&type=album

https://sun9-34.userapi.com/impg/ez3qs86YtMIYusIihx-tdaEODu64r5b-M8DKww/Al1Ko4KKaPs.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=3777166548c9dbb50a43990c5448f82f&type=album

https://sun9-19.userapi.com/impg/3kF2tNttwlm7K5TiXi-EGQFuektVCfLREJz1Ug/95lb87CL0LE.jpg?size=760x600&quality=95&sign=b998e599b17efc1c039a16c9505b9aad&type=album

Some of my maternal ancestors come from Rivne(or that general area, I don't know the exact location). That might explain a few things, cheers.

[ugochaves]

If we use the modern population, then all Germans will be absorbed by Transcarpathian Ukrainians, who can hardly be accused of German origin or not?

"Ukrainian_Zakarpattia",0.1289665,0.1262348,0.0575027,0.0417232,0.0342537 ,0.016794,0.008542,0.0087889,-0.0014939,-0.012598,-0.0012003,-0.0055711,0.0099086,0.0168317,-0.0113238,-0.0009223,0.0057539,-0.0011512,0.0020002,6.52e-05,-0.003548,-0.0035967,0.0040993,-0.0001571,-0.0002083
"Norwegian",0.1320917,0.1294546,0.0680514,0.0545305,0.0403228 ,0.0198709,0.0041595,0.0060919,0.006151,-0.002287,-0.0046444,0.004275,-0.0092355,-0.0101497,0.0202528,0.0065566,-0.0072004,0.0033097,0.0029758,0.0041082,0.0056806, 0.0040898,0.0008873,0.0141072,-6.88e-05
"Moksha",0.1267989,0.0885541,0.0724449,0.0615638,0.0239121 ,0.0203869,0.0098939,0.0131301,-0.0035382,-0.0277911,0.0010556,-0.0067139,0.0173785,0.0143128,-0.0123369,-0.0022142,0.0031293,-0.0011908,-0.0004779,-0.0025388,-0.0022959,-0.0033139,0.0038454,-0.0006147,0.0015686
"Belarusian",0.1322625,0.1236239,0.0750219,0.0695957,0.0402331 ,0.0265691,0.0107321,0.0133226,-0.0002727,-0.0246017,-0.0026957,-0.0092119,0.0193259,0.0272309,-0.0112647,-0.0038009,-0.0009647,0.0003717,0.0041397,-0.0010504,-0.0042342,-0.0046081,0.0077235,-0.0068601,0.0006946
"Komi",0.1187174,0.0307705,0.0850408,0.0682822,-0.0046161,0.0141677,0.0094945,0.0130841,-0.0030884,-0.0298138,0.0099383,-0.0086022,0.0182258,-0.0062204,-0.0087676,-0.0047601,-0.0014733,-0.0014444,-0.0039595,-0.0039646,0.0014723,-0.0011993,-0.0001234,0.0012051,0.0004191

Target: Russian_Orel
Distance: 0.7047% / 0.00704705
58.0 Belarusian
22.0 Moksha
20.0 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia

Target: Russian_Kursk
Distance: 0.7277% / 0.00727736
59.4 Belarusian
26.8 Moksha
13.8 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia

Target: Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
Distance: 0.8648% / 0.00864810
66.0 Belarusian
34.0 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia

Target: Ukrainian_Sumy
Distance: 0.7407% / 0.00740733
68.4 Belarusian
31.4 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.2 Moksha

Target: Ukrainian_Rivne
Distance: 0.7288% / 0.00728788
64.4 Belarusian
33.2 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
2.0 Moksha
0.4 Norwegian

Target: Ukrainian_Lviv
Distance: 0.9793% / 0.00979300
70.4 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
29.0 Belarusian
0.6 Norwegian

Target: Ukrainian_Dnipro
Distance: 0.6651% / 0.00665115
49.0 Belarusian
29.0 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
22.0 Moksha

Target: Ukrainian_Chernihiv
Distance: 0.7176% / 0.00717558
68.6 Belarusian
28.4 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
3.0 Moksha

That's how the Eastern Slavs differ from the Western ones. Moksha component. Ukrainians east of the Dnieper have a lot of it, as do all Russians. West of the Dnieper, this is not a Russian region.

[ugochaves]

The armed forces of Ukraine mainly consist of eastern Ukrainians who are east of the Dnieper!, I'm sorry that again about the potlitic. It means Moksha is at war with Moksha. The West has provided for all this. This is an incredible genetic genocide of the Russian people!

[Jana]

There were German settlers in eastern Carpathians.

[ugochaves]

There were German settlers in eastern Carpathians.
The settlers don't matter - it's a drop in the ocean. The Carpathians absorb the Germans and the East Slavic Balkans in G25, so we need to look for something ancient!

[sevruk]

Bastarnae

[cass]

I tested W. Ukrainians using ancient Ukrainian and Polish samples
In my opinion, it was not the Goths and Celts but the Thracians, Scyts, local LBAs and RusVikings that pushed the Western Ukrainians west and north


Target: Ukrainian_Ternopil
Distance: 1.9624% / 0.01962433 | ADC: 0.25x
43.8 Ukraine_High_Medieval_Lutsk_(Slavic_Profile)
32.0 POL_Bodzia_VA
15.8 Ukraine_IA_Thraco-Cimmerian
4.4 Krakauer_Berg
4.0 Ukraine_LBA_Belozerskaya


Target: Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
Distance: 1.1534% / 0.01153392 | ADC: 0.25x
34.4 Ukraine_High_Medieval_Lutsk_(Slavic_Profile)
18.0 Krakauer_Berg
10.8 Ukraine_LBA_Belozerskaya
9.0 Ukraine_LBA_Verteba
8.8 Ukraine_High_Medieval_Chernigov_(Slavic_Profile)
6.2 Ukraine_Late_Antiquity-Early_Medieval_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine
5.8 POL_Krakow_MA
3.6 Ukraine_Early-High_Medieval_Viking_Age_Shestovitsa_(Mixed_Norse-Finnic_Profile)
2.4 Scythian_IA_Ukraine
1.0 Bell_Beaker_POL


https://i.ibb.co/bbjL1w6/Vahaduo-Global-25-North-Europe-PCA-20.png (https://ibb.co/GHfk7Yd)

[cass]

https://i.ibb.co/qpRG4H1/Vahaduo-Global-25-North-Europe-PCA-22.png (https://ibb.co/4pjyDbN)
Unfortunately, both samples (Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk) are only single individuals



These single examples are far more strange
Ukrainian_Chernivetska:EG600019,0.120652,0.067025, 0.058454,0.037145,0.008925,0.014781,0.013866,0.010 846,-0.008795,-0.018953,-0.003735,-0.004196,0.008622,0.00867,-0.005429,-0.006232,-0.006128,-0.00114,-0.00176,-0.002001,-0.005989,0.000247,0.002095,0.00723,0.003473
Ukrainian_Zhitomir:EG600048,0.104717,0.142174,0.00 2263,-0.035207,0.014156,-0.016176,-0.002115,-0.001615,0.003272,0.011663,-0.000812,0.001049,0.000743,0.001514,-0.002036,0.000928,0.00326,0.0019,0.00352,0.000375,-0.001248,-0.004204,0.008504,-0.000723,0.003353

[gixajo]

These parts of Ukraine have a Celtic (French-like) affinity much more than a Germanic one.

If you add French (Celtic-like) references almost all of Germanic will disappear.


g]

You should study a little better the regions of France and the references before choosing them...:picard1:

Grand-Est ? One of the most Germanic French references maybe... and the other is a "Flemish-like" outlier. In other words, similar to a "Dutch" group, when precisely some Dutch references are also used as "Germanic" references for some ...

The border between the modern genetic conception of Celtic and Germanic (with G25 at least) is not even clear, ok but well...

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that these references could be called "Celto-Germanic" with a very high Germanic tendency.

But well... Celtic...:confused:

[gixajo]

I tested W. Ukrainians using ancient Ukrainian and Polish samples
In my opinion, it was not the Goths and Celts but the Thracians, Scyts, local LBAs and RusVikings that pushed the Western Ukrainians west and north


Target: Ukrainian_Ternopil
Distance: 1.9624% / 0.01962433 | ADC: 0.25x
43.8 Ukraine_High_Medieval_Lutsk_(Slavic_Profile)
32.0 POL_Bodzia_VA
15.8 Ukraine_IA_Thraco-Cimmerian
4.4 Krakauer_Berg
4.0 Ukraine_LBA_Belozerskaya


Target: Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
Distance: 1.1534% / 0.01153392 | ADC: 0.25x
34.4 Ukraine_High_Medieval_Lutsk_(Slavic_Profile)
18.0 Krakauer_Berg
10.8 Ukraine_LBA_Belozerskaya
9.0 Ukraine_LBA_Verteba
8.8 Ukraine_High_Medieval_Chernigov_(Slavic_Profile)
6.2 Ukraine_Late_Antiquity-Early_Medieval_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine
5.8 POL_Krakow_MA
3.6 Ukraine_Early-High_Medieval_Viking_Age_Shestovitsa_(Mixed_Norse-Finnic_Profile)
2.4 Scythian_IA_Ukraine
1.0 Bell_Beaker_POL


l]

Has the Davidski datasheet been updated? You are posting a lot of references that I have never seen...

Not just you, many of the forum members that are participating in this thread.

[ugochaves]

You should study a little better the regions of France and the references before choosing them...:picard1:

Grand-Est ? One of the most Germanic French references maybe... and the other is a "Flemish-like" outlier. In other words, similar to a "Dutch" group, when precisely some Dutch references are also used as "Germanic" references for some ...

The border between the modern genetic conception of Celtic and Germanic (with G25 at least) is not even clear, ok but well...

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that these references could be called "Celto-Germanic" with a very high Germanic tendency.

But well... Celtic...:confused:
You work like a Negro (1% of the Negroid is strong in you), offer your links and a calculator. Russki uses the intelligence of a white man, you're high on marijuana again.

[Russki]

You should study a little better the regions of France and the references before choosing them...:picard1:

Grand-Est ? One of the most Germanic French references maybe... and the other is a "Flemish-like" outlier. In other words, similar to a "Dutch" group, when precisely some Dutch references are also used as "Germanic" references for some ...

The border between the modern genetic conception of Celtic and Germanic (with G25 at least) is not even clear, ok but well...

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that these references could be called "Celto-Germanic" with a very high Germanic tendency.

But well... Celtic...:confused:


Grand Est is literally farther away from Germanics than the Iron Age French, you dummy.


https://sun9-18.userapi.com/impg/pPIpzqX_DMessbSteO03fDw9CeGsbyX-wylfDA/MxOOrvqZgHM.jpg?size=947x595&quality=95&sign=e231e99347e146bc86f027123995184d&type=album

[cass]

Has the Davidski datasheet been updated? You are posting a lot of references that I have never seen...

Not just you, many of the forum members that are participating in this thread.




( The coordinates of the samples were taken from The Moriopoulos Collection )

[Abriekman]

Has the Davidski datasheet been updated? You are posting a lot of references that I have never seen...

Not just you, many of the forum members that are participating in this thread.

European https://pastebin.com/eH6z2Bbc

[Loki]

Please guys, remain civil in discussion.

[ugochaves]

Grand Est is literally farther away from Germanics than the Iron Age French, you dummy.


https://sun9-18.userapi.com/impg/pPIpzqX_DMessbSteO03fDw9CeGsbyX-wylfDA/MxOOrvqZgHM.jpg?size=947x595&quality=95&sign=e231e99347e146bc86f027123995184d&type=album
You're a dumbass yourself! Don't call my friend that anymore!

[Abriekman]

These single examples are far more strange


Lol, what's this? hahhaha

Chernivtsi Ukrainian is likely 3/4 Northwest Russian 1/4 Turkish (?)

Target: Ukrainian_Chernivetska:EG600019
Distance: 1.7769% / 0.01776873 | R4P | ADC: 0.5x RC
48.6 East_Europe:Russian_Kostroma
31.4 Anatolia:Turkish_Balikesir
20.0 East_Europe:Russian_Arkhangelsk_Leshukonsky

Zhitomir is probably Jewish

Target: Ukrainian_Zhitomir:EG600048
Distance: 1.3608% / 0.01360844 | R4P | ADC: 0.5x RC
45.0 Central_Med:Maltese
32.6 East_Med:Greek_Cyclades_Andros
22.4 East_Europe:Moldovan_Stefan_Voda

Do they even check those individuals before assigning them as "Ukrainian"?

[Dušan]

European https://pastebin.com/eH6z2Bbc


:o

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 1.3059% / 0.01305912 | R4P
29.6 Ukrainian_Volyn
27.8 Ukrainian_Zaporizhzhia
25.4 Greece_BA_Minoan_Petras
17.2 Russia_Viking_Age_Gnezdovo_(Balto-Slavic_Profile)

[Wend-Kruzek]

on this calc:European https://pastebin.com/eH6z2Bbc


Distance to: Kruzek_scaled
0.01241567 Croat_Kajkavian
0.01683652 Denmark_Viking_Age_Langeland_(Mixed_Norse-Balto-Slavic-Southern_Profile)
0.02047437 German_Saxony_Leipzig
0.02139447 Czech
0.02278136 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.02462881 Cossack_Ukrainian_Dnipropetrovsk
0.02551710 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.02701693 Polish
0.02740425 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
0.02749886 Slovene
0.02796842 Ukrainian_Pontic
0.02905317 Ukrainian_Kharkiv
0.02922451 Ukrainian_Zaporizhzhia
0.03064566 Hungarian
0.03075000 Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_Avar_Period
0.03083048 Croat
0.03087720 Denmark_Viking_Age_Langeland_(Mixed_Norse-Balto-Slavic_Profile)
0.03099322 Polish_Wielkopolska
0.03143411 Ukrainian
0.03148557 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.03163951 Ukrainian_Crimea
0.03288442 Slovakia_EIA_Vekerzug_(Hither-Balto-Slavic_Profile)
0.03319056 Scythian_IA_Ukraine_o2
0.03324840 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige_Trentino_o
0.03331369 Ukrainian_Donetsk


Target: Kruzek_scaled
Distance: 0.8422% / 0.00842225 | ADC: 0.5x RC
55.0 Croat_Kajkavian
20.8 Denmark_Viking_Age_Langeland_(Mixed_Norse-Balto-Slavic-Southern_Profile)
12.2 Ukrainian_Volyn
7.2 Czechia_IA_La_Tene_(Northwest_Euro_Profile)_(low_r es)
3.2 Greenland_Western_Settlement_Viking_Age_(Late_Nors e)_(Mixed_Insular_Celtic-Norse_Profile)
1.6 Kashubian

[cass]

wrong thread

[Abriekman]

These single examples are far more strange
Ukrainian_Chernivetska:EG600019,0.120652,0.067025, 0.058454,0.037145,0.008925,0.014781,0.013866,0.010 846,-0.008795,-0.018953,-0.003735,-0.004196,0.008622,0.00867,-0.005429,-0.006232,-0.006128,-0.00114,-0.00176,-0.002001,-0.005989,0.000247,0.002095,0.00723,0.003473
Ukrainian_Zhitomir:EG600048,0.104717,0.142174,0.00 2263,-0.035207,0.014156,-0.016176,-0.002115,-0.001615,0.003272,0.011663,-0.000812,0.001049,0.000743,0.001514,-0.002036,0.000928,0.00326,0.0019,0.00352,0.000375,-0.001248,-0.004204,0.008504,-0.000723,0.003353

Where did you get individual samples from? They are not present in the Mariopoulos Collection as I have seen. Also you seem to have some regionals like Lugansk and Chernivetska that aren't there as well.

[cass]

Where did you get individual samples from? They are not present in the Mariopoulos Collection as I have seen. Also you seem to have some regionals like Lugansk and Chernivetska that aren't there as well.
EG600048,>
https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html



rest

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?26360-6000-G25-coordinates

[Vega7]

Lol, what's this? hahhaha

Chernivtsi Ukrainian is likely 3/4 Northwest Russian 1/4 Turkish (?)

Target: Ukrainian_Chernivetska:EG600019
Distance: 1.7769% / 0.01776873 | R4P | ADC: 0.5x RC
48.6 East_Europe:Russian_Kostroma
31.4 Anatolia:Turkish_Balikesir
20.0 East_Europe:Russian_Arkhangelsk_Leshukonsky

Zhitomir is probably Jewish

Target: Ukrainian_Zhitomir:EG600048
Distance: 1.3608% / 0.01360844 | R4P | ADC: 0.5x RC
45.0 Central_Med:Maltese
32.6 East_Med:Greek_Cyclades_Andros
22.4 East_Europe:Moldovan_Stefan_Voda

Do they even check those individuals before assigning them as "Ukrainian"?

Chernivtsi isn't very useful because Romania kicked a lot of the Ukrainians out after WW1. There was also a lot of immigration to there and then a lot of the Ukrainians there today were originally Romanians who became Ukrainian. My family is from there, but 23andme doesn't show a strong connection. It shows a significantly stronger connection to eastern Poland. There is a strong one to Ivano Frankivsk though.

Modern samples and even averages need to be interpreted with some historical context. I'm not sure how significant population movements were in various parts of Ukraine in the last few hundred years.

[Vega7]

The genetic make-up of the population from the Western Ukrainian regions is an interesting topic. While people from there do show some Balkan genetic influences as would be expected given the region's history, there are also significant amounts of Western European ancestry that can be shown by G25 modelling.

To explore the breakdown of these genetic influences I created a model using 3 reference populations:

- Ukrainians from the Rivne province as a proxy for Eastern Slavic admixture
- Serbs as a proxy for Balkan admixture ( even though Serbs are 55-65% Slavic I think it is still better to use
Serb samples than to find a fully Balkanic ancient sample of low coverage )
- Scandinavians ( Norwegian, Swedish, Danish ) as a proxy for Western European/Germanic admixture

The results of Galicia Ukrainian averages

Target: Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
Distance: 1.7156% / 0.01715564
67.8 Ukrainian_Rivne
15.4 Norwegian_Bergen
14.8 Serb
2.0 Norwegian


Target: Ukrainian_Ternopil
Distance: 2.3653% / 0.02365267
51.0 Ukrainian_Rivne
36.6 Serb_Bosnia
12.4 Norwegian_Bergen


Target: East_Europe:Ukrainian_Lviv
Distance: 0.7899% / 0.00789940 | R3P
67.4 Ukrainian_Rivne
16.4 Serb
11.8 Serb_Croatia
4.4 Swedish


While Ukrainian Lviv average shows Slavic, minor Carpathian/Balkanic admixture and trace of Northwest European DNA which isn't significant, modelling of Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk Ukrainians shows that over 10% of the genetic makeup of people from Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk has Western European admixture

Please feel free to share any relevant comments, data, or studies on this topic.

( The coordinates of the samples were taken from The Moriopoulos Collection )

How does Rivne compare to the neighbouring parts of Poland? It's much more likely that the data is either inaccurate or that some parts of (or samples from) Ukraine became more Eastern through Russian immigration.

Galicia is more southern than NW Ukraine, but not more western.

My brother in law is actually ethnic German descendant from people who lived around Lviv, but I doubt this affected the gene pool much. I think even Romania at this time was largely German and probably much of eastern Europe. I think even Leonardo DiCaprio is descendant from ethnic Germans living in Russia.

[Vega7]

With regard to (south)western Ukrainian genetics, I'm not sure how useful 23andme composition is, but I was surprised by how much Eastern Polish came up. But, again, this has to be interpreted in the context of population movements especially since around 1900 when my family came to Canada. People maybe moved around significantly since then. My Slavic is rather scattered although the Romanian is densely clustered.

https://i.ibb.co/qjSrn5r/composition.png

[Vega7]

Ok I just looked at the Lviv, Ternopil, and Ivano-Frankivsk samples myself and I see what people are talking about. They all score significant (9-15%) in celto-germanic whereas northwestern Ukraine doesn't really (Volyn was 4.2%, and Rivne was 0). Zakarpattia scored 5.4%, which is similar to Volyn.

My own DNA scored 0 in celto-Germanic. So the only possibilities are either the data is inaccurate or it is recent admixture from German/Austrian settlers being absorbed into the population. But the percentages seem way too high to be the latter. It is definitely not old DNA or else it would be found in me as well.

[Abriekman]

Ok I just looked at the Lviv, Ternopil, and Ivano-Frankivsk samples myself and I see what people are talking about. They all score significant (9-15%) in celto-germanic whereas northwestern Ukraine doesn't really (Volyn was 4.2%, and Rivne was 0). Zakarpattia scored 5.4%, which is similar to Volyn.

My own DNA scored 0 in celto-Germanic. So the only possibilities are either the data is inaccurate or it is recent admixture from German/Austrian settlers being absorbed into the population. But the percentages seem way too high to be the latter. It is definitely not old DNA or else it would be found in me as well.

I personally agree with you. I kind of doubt that it's ancient DNA because it's very significant and we also need to consider that Celts were in different parts of Europe including Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia and those Balkanic populations do not have an affinity to Western European populations that are mostly Celtic by ancient origins.