EEF vs CHG : which one is more wog in your eyes ?

[papa diddy pop]

EEF vs CHG : which one is more wog in your eyes ?

From Wikipedia (some oudated and wrong stuff but still better than nothing) :

Early European Farmers (EEF), First European Farmers (FEF), Neolithic European Farmers, Ancient Aegean Farmers, or Anatolian Neolithic Farmers (ANF) are names used to describe a distinct group of early Neolithic farmers who brought agriculture to Europe and Northwest Africa (Maghreb). Although the spread of agriculture from the Middle East to Europe has long been recognised through archaeology, it is only recent advances in archaeogenetics that have confirmed that this spread was strongly correlated with a migration of these farmers, and was not just a cultural exchange.


Caucasus hunter-gatherer (CHG), also called Satsurblia cluster is an anatomically modern human genetic lineage, first identified in a 2015 study,[2][3] based on the population genetics of several modern Western Eurasian (European, Caucasian and Near Eastern) populations. The CHG lineage descended from a population that diverged from a Common Western Eurasian meta-population early; and separated from the "Anatolian Hunter Gatherer" (AHG) lineage later, around 25,000 years ago, during the Last Glacial Maximum.[3] The Caucasus hunter-gatherers managed to survive in isolation through the Last Glacial Maximum as a distinct population

[ugochaves]

The EEF has made Europeans weak homosexuals. Of course I hate EEF. CHG were our women. Wise and caring.

[catgeorge]

The EEF has made Europeans weak homosexuals. Of course I hate EEF. CHG were our women. Wise and caring.

Scandinavia and Western Europe must have alot of EEF then because South Europeans do not really like Scandinavian way of life.

Thats why South Europeans have ruled the known world steamrolling everyone in their path.

[catgeorge]

Luckily Russia and Scandinavia was an irrelevant wasteland or it would have been steamrolled as well.

https://digitalmapsoftheancientworld.files.wordpress.com/2022/09/map-hellenistic-kingdoms-c.-300-bce-with-cities-scaled-1.jpg

[ugochaves]

Scandinavia and Western Europe must have alot of EEF then because South Europeans do not really like Scandinavian way of life.

Thats why South Europeans have ruled the known world steamrolling everyone in their path.

Scandinavian albinos are not Northern people at all. It is a mixture of Greeks and Balto-Slavs. Only Finns, Balts and Russians are the heirs of the Northern people. We don't have an EEF. This is our pride, we are the only people in Europe who do not have this fucking brown gene.

[catgeorge]

Scandinavian albinos are not Northern people at all. It is a mixture of Greeks and Balto-Slavs. Only Finns, Balts and Russians are the heirs of the Northern people. We don't have an EEF. This is our pride, we are the only people in Europe who do not have this fucking brown gene.

Then you can't call yourself European. You are yellow Fella - nothing to do with Europe.

Balto Slavs DO have EEF. Sorry..... E, J, G stretches in Russia by the plenty sorry to break it you delusional fool.

[Granada]

The EEF has made Europeans weak homosexuals. Of course I hate EEF. CHG were our women. Wise and caring.

EFF taught your people everything including how to wipe the butt. Russian needs to be more cool and gay like me and then savages can make real alcohols like wine, fine clothing, art. We invent disco.

[ugochaves]

Then you can't call yourself European. You are yellow Fella - nothing to do with Europe.

Balto Slavs DO have EEF. Sorry..... E, J, G stretches in Russia by the plenty sorry to break it you delusional fool.
I have already said 100 times that I am not a European. There is no EEF in me. Beans make me fart. That's why EEF are the smelliest farts. I only eat meat. My DNA belongs only to Indo-Europeans and hunter-gatherers.

[catgeorge]

I have already said 100 times that I am not a European. There is no EEF in me. Beans make me fart. That's why EEF are the smelliest farts. I only eat meat. My DNA belongs only to Indo-Europeans and hunter-gatherers.

You are definitely not - wannabe barbarian that thinks he can dodge bullets from his mothers basement.

[ugochaves]

EFF taught you're people everything including how to wipe the butt. Russian needs to be more cool and gay like me and then savages can make real alcohols like wine, fine clothing, art. We invent disco.
Fuck you. I'm going to Siberia with a Swedish female and I won't mix with any of you blacks. We will swim in the snow and eat snow. I will never eat beans and stink like the Spaniards do.

[catgeorge]

Fuck you. I'm going to Siberia with a Swedish female and I won't mix with any of you blacks. We will swim in the snow and eat snow. I will never eat beans and stink like the Spaniards do.

Are you sure the Swedish Female is going to be Female because that's Sweden - Diversity - Equality - Inclusion.

[Voskos]

Both those lineages are european. Non euros score Iran Neolithic.

[ugochaves]

Are you sure the Swedish Female is going to be Female because that's Sweden - Diversity - Equality - Inclusion.
The Finnish Swede is very feminine. I want to find the same northern valkyrie.
https://i.ibb.co/7nFQ18S/2.jpg (https://ibb.co/HtQCH1K)

[papa diddy pop]

The EEF has made Europeans weak homosexuals. Of course I hate EEF. CHG were our women. Wise and caring.

Sorry but you're at least 30% gay

[catgeorge]

If one really does a deep dive - the Asiatic gene is the weakest biological gene in the human race if such a thing exists.

In Asia at large it's a Transvestite area - meaning Asian people are likely to have weak biological genes that is incapable to tell the difference between Male and Female. Same is true with others have the Asian gene such as Europeans and Arabs.

But in Africa - they will laugh in your face - evidence below. Like it or not some African tribes are biological elites as they don't have an Asian gene.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTc9bnQcw4A&ab_channel=RobertTownsend

[Voskos]

Distance to: Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
0.43470309 Turkey_Boncuklu_N
0.50620136 Israel_Natufian
0.55804535 Iran_GanjDareh_N

[Katarzyna]

Sorry but you're at least 30% gay

No, he’s something around 27-28% gay only unlike us Slavs/Germanics who are around 35% gay.

[ugochaves]

No, he’s something around 27-28% gay only unlike us Slavs/Germanics who are around 35% gay.
[1] "distance%=6.4989"

Alex_scaled

Yamnaya_Samara,53
Barcin_N,0%
WHG,17.6
Han,1.2
Clovis,0.4

[papa diddy pop]

No, he’s something around 27-28% gay only unlike us Slavs/Germanics who are around 35% gay.

And his hero Hugo Chaves is a wog full of EEF :rolleyes:

[DomitiusAurelian]

Scandinavian albinos are not Northern people at all. It is a mixture of Greeks and Balto-Slavs. Only Finns, Balts and Russians are the heirs of the Northern people. We don't have an EEF. This is our pride, we are the only people in Europe who do not have this fucking brown gene.

There's no way this comment is serious lmao

[papa diddy pop]

We saw what happened with Yamnaya who chose the CHG path, they ended up being insignificant in History and far less numerous than their Corded ware Bro who chose the EEF path.


Look 122968

R-BY94089 the fierce legacy of those proud yamnaya warriors !

122969

[Granada]

Fuck you. I'm going to Siberia with a Swedish female and I won't mix with any of you blacks. We will swim in the snow and eat snow. I will never eat beans and stink like the Spaniards do.

Russian bean farts are from your asian background. I might be greasy but I sweat organic Spanish olive oil I can sell to importer and sold in bottles in Russia. I have enough olive oil to purchase your village and buy 5 Russian wives.

[ugochaves]

There's no way this comment is serious lmao
Compare the Viking EEF and the modern Swedes. Swedish Vikings have EEF = Northern Slavs, about 30%. Modern Swedes have diluted their blood with southern Europe, today the Swedish EEF has increased to 40%

[Katarzyna]

Compare the Viking EEF and the modern Swedes. Swedish Vikings have EEF = Northern Slavs, about 30%. Modern Swedes have diluted their blood with southern Europe, today the Swedish EEF has increased to 40%

They didn’t increase because of modern population, they have always been like that. It is because in Sweden before their Yamnaya people came, EEF descendants lived there, namely the Funnelbeaker culture. They were around 70% EEF, more than modern days Southern European, but had light hair and light eyes. The Yamnaya on the other hand were dark as fuck when they entered Europe and only whitened up over time. They mixed with the farmer descend Funnelbeaker and ended up forming the corded ware, ancestor of both Germanic and Slavic people. (But not finno-ugric).
That is why modern day Scandinavians still have such a high EEF.

[Katarzyna]

This is how a Funnelbeaker man looked like, 5000 years ago. Remember, he was 70% EEF

https://i.ibb.co/NpJdGnT/IMG-3399.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Abaddon]

wrong thread

[FinalFlash]

CHG-rich populations produce woggier looking individuals than predominantly EEF pops.

[ugochaves]

They didn’t increase because of modern population, they have always been like that. It is because in Sweden before their Yamnaya people came, EEF descendants lived there, namely the Funnelbeaker culture. They were around 70% EEF, more than modern days Southern European, but had light hair and light eyes. The Yamnaya on the other hand were dark as fuck when they entered Europe and only whitened up over time. They mixed with the farmer descend Funnelbeaker and ended up forming the corded ware, ancestor of both Germanic and Slavic people. (But not finno-ugric).
That is why modern day Scandinavians still have such a high EEF.
Obviously, glasses don't make you smarter.

[kingmob]

I am 13% EHG, wish it was 0 but could have been worse, so no complaints.

[Voskos]

neonazi sockpuppet getting mad that I called Caucasus European:


Stop saying bullshit bro, If CHG is european/white then blacks and browns are also white, dont play clown even you having a phd on this.

[Sacrificed Ram]

The EEF has made Europeans weak homosexuals. Of course I hate EEF. CHG were our women. Wise and caring.

Most of CHG is Iran_Chalcolitic.

Your wife:
https://wallsdesk.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Mia-Khalifa-Widescreen-.jpg

[Russki]

Funnelbeaker culture had light hair and light eyes


The Yamnaya on the other hand were dark as fuck

one must provide additional information
that will clarify the pigmentation patterns of the neighboring German and Danish people


who live in a comparable climatic environment.
https://sun9-45.userapi.com/impg/__Jp7ZTaxjsBkQACC6pmspHEoxVDsxowPPbQGA/_g2kGsCURp0.jpg?size=520x220&quality=95&sign=d3c25c5ed825442ca3088e13ee6cdc67&type=album

Funnelbeaker:Germany_MN_Esperstedt,0.121791,0.1756 87,0.048649,-0.046835,0.087093,-0.037371,-0.003055,0.008538,0.046018,0.081095,0.002111,0.016 785,-0.022448,-0.009221,-0.022801,0.012066,0.035464,0,0.008547,0.001,0.0064 89,0.003957,-0.009613,-0.0194,-0.005868
Yamnaya:Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya,0.1258378,0.0892 539,0.0429079,0.1154556,-0.0278684,0.0446846,0.0044911,-0.0029487,-0.0548579,-0.0729957,0.0018583,0.0003497,-0.0016518,-0.0236099,0.0372629,0.015734,1e-07,-0.001478,-0.001704,0.0125059,-0.0031197,0.001374,0.0112292,0.0184362,-0.0045237
WHG:Italy_North_Villabruna_HG,0.121791,0.11577,0.1 8592,0.185726,0.156029,0.060798,0.017626,0.041537, 0.093467,0.017859,-0.015752,-0.015886,0.020961,-0.005092,0.05361,0.064041,0.007562,0.004181,-0.00905,0.053401,0.099949,0.012489,-0.044123,-0.169904,0.018801

[papa diddy pop]

Roman empire has been made by Steppes-EEF people mix, You bring slaves full of Iran neholitic / CHG ancestry, it starts to deteriorate a lot, They change the religion of the empire and destroy it at the same time. You can read Juvenal satyre about it

[Katarzyna]

one must provide additional information
that will clarify the pigmentation patterns of the neighboring German and Danish people


who live in a comparable climatic environment.
https://sun9-45.userapi.com/impg/__Jp7ZTaxjsBkQACC6pmspHEoxVDsxowPPbQGA/_g2kGsCURp0.jpg?size=520x220&quality=95&sign=d3c25c5ed825442ca3088e13ee6cdc67&type=album

Funnelbeaker:Germany_MN_Esperstedt,0.121791,0.1756 87,0.048649,-0.046835,0.087093,-0.037371,-0.003055,0.008538,0.046018,0.081095,0.002111,0.016 785,-0.022448,-0.009221,-0.022801,0.012066,0.035464,0,0.008547,0.001,0.0064 89,0.003957,-0.009613,-0.0194,-0.005868
Yamnaya:Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya,0.1258378,0.0892 539,0.0429079,0.1154556,-0.0278684,0.0446846,0.0044911,-0.0029487,-0.0548579,-0.0729957,0.0018583,0.0003497,-0.0016518,-0.0236099,0.0372629,0.015734,1e-07,-0.001478,-0.001704,0.0125059,-0.0031197,0.001374,0.0112292,0.0184362,-0.0045237
WHG:Italy_North_Villabruna_HG,0.121791,0.11577,0.1 8592,0.185726,0.156029,0.060798,0.017626,0.041537, 0.093467,0.017859,-0.015752,-0.015886,0.020961,-0.005092,0.05361,0.064041,0.007562,0.004181,-0.00905,0.053401,0.099949,0.012489,-0.044123,-0.169904,0.018801

Because Germans aren’t only bordering Denmark but also Belgium, France, Switzerland and Czech Republic. And those Continental Celtic countries are rich in EEF. The hierarchy is as following: Continental Celt > Germanic = Slavic > Baltic > Finnic as you can see in my picture

https://i.ibb.co/KDpvyTt/IMG-3419.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZSpDTqQ)

I personally avoid all men below 40% EEF as I think they are incomplete and it leads them into very weird behavior, as you can very well see in Russian politicians who are rich in Baltic and Finnic. And yes, I also include eastern Poles from
Belarus border who are very Baltic and brought our EEF-average down. They are the ones who vote for parties like PIS most. I am sure my idols Donald Tusk and Arkadiusz Marwechwka aren’t below 40% because they got Western European and Czech ancestry. That actually explains so much…

[Sacrificed Ram]

Roman empire has been made by Steppes-EEF people mix, You bring slaves full of Iran neholitic / CHG ancestry, it starts to deteriorate a lot, They change the religion of the empire and destroy it at the same time. You can read Juvenal satyre about it

Steppe WSH component is half Iran_Chalcolithic/CHG, the rest EHG.

They were the true Aryans!
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_A_kUWzaUDUA/S_wpqgFX0XI/AAAAAAAABJo/kixREeQVq5w/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Sarmatian_horsemen.jpg

Even mixed with slaves with high amount of Iran_Chalcolithic/CHG, they have less Iran_Chalcolithic/CHG than original indo-europeans...

[Avicenna]

CHG-rich populations produce woggier looking individuals than predominantly EEF pops.

Disagree

CHG rich populations

Dagestan


https://youtu.be/hHwOq78wf4A?si=5DUQl-TQA---9Z34

Georgia


https://youtu.be/abS15Ntbhcw?si=qW0LDY0QdOjGkicm


EEF rich population

Sardinians


https://youtu.be/K3f-Ns08Hxw?si=zpXtkiwnux8NRx7F

[Russki]

Funnelbeaker culture had light hair and light eyes

The Yamnaya on the other hand were dark as fuck

https://sun9-40.userapi.com/impg/BKKB-TaVW2QhuErDz4h8Lf5lugEhv74bGGtIxA/1WvOayake50.jpg?size=640x832&quality=96&sign=e589c00df76ff2c4b3b2a44d525d4652&type=album

https://i.imgur.com/jYKsth7.png (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?33343-Katarzyna)

[user_]

In terms of eye/skin/hair color CHG reach populations are way more lighter than EEF.
But modern Europe is unimaginable without Mediterranean component.

It's like asking who is more wog, Spanish or Russian. Complexion wise Russians are way lighter, but on the other hand Spain is way more advance as a nation.

[Katarzyna]

[

Because everyone started as dark Mediterranean looking before they got bleached when entering Northern Europe
You can see:

WHG
https://i.ibb.co/fN0qK37/IMG-3422.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

EHG
https://i.ibb.co/YWFvxHK/IMG-3421.jpg (https://ibb.co/n0NhFxV)

Yamnaya
https://i.ibb.co/KWf4Qtv/IMG-3420.jpg (https://ibb.co/rHz8LBr)

Everyone was just dark as fuck back then xD

[user_]

Scandinavian albinos are not Northern people at all. It is a mixture of Greeks and Balto-Slavs. Only Finns, Balts and Russians are the heirs of the Northern people. We don't have an EEF. This is our pride, we are the only people in Europe who do not have this fucking brown gene.

It is strange, but culturally Russians are very similar to Mediterranean nations like Greeks, south Italians. Russians are sociable, outgoing, love parties, not punctual, have strong family ties, a little naive. Unlike introvert Scandinavians.

[Beowulf]

Funnelbeaker:Germany_MN_Esperstedt,0.121791,0.1756 87,0.048649,-0.046835,0.087093,-0.037371,-0.003055,0.008538,0.046018,0.081095,0.002111,0.016 785,-0.022448,-0.009221,-0.022801,0.012066,0.035464,0,0.008547,0.001,0.0064 89,0.003957,-0.009613,-0.0194,-0.005868
Yamnaya:Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya,0.1258378,0.0892 539,0.0429079,0.1154556,-0.0278684,0.0446846,0.0044911,-0.0029487,-0.0548579,-0.0729957,0.0018583,0.0003497,-0.0016518,-0.0236099,0.0372629,0.015734,1e-07,-0.001478,-0.001704,0.0125059,-0.0031197,0.001374,0.0112292,0.0184362,-0.0045237
WHG:Italy_North_Villabruna_HG,0.121791,0.11577,0.1 8592,0.185726,0.156029,0.060798,0.017626,0.041537, 0.093467,0.017859,-0.015752,-0.015886,0.020961,-0.005092,0.05361,0.064041,0.007562,0.004181,-0.00905,0.053401,0.099949,0.012489,-0.044123,-0.169904,0.018801

Target: Beowulf_Scaled
Distance: 0.0341% / 0.03414816
61.2 Funnelbeaker
38.8 Yamnaya

[Mesoman]

They were about the same in my opinion. However, compared to ANF, CHG probably would have been a tad whiter

[Sacrificed Ram]

Because everyone started as dark Mediterranean looking before they got bleached when entering Northern Europe
You can see:

WHG
https://i.ibb.co/fN0qK37/IMG-3422.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

EHG
https://i.ibb.co/YWFvxHK/IMG-3421.jpg (https://ibb.co/n0NhFxV)

Yamnaya
https://i.ibb.co/KWf4Qtv/IMG-3420.jpg (https://ibb.co/rHz8LBr)

Everyone was just dark as fuck back then xD

WHG = They were black

EHG = WHG + ANE

Yamnaya = EHG + Iran_Chalcolithic/CHG

[Sacrificed Ram]

I forgot Yamnaya also had some important Natufian, they were almost like a "russian+lebanese mix".

[kingmob]

Roman empire has been made by Steppes-EEF people mix, You bring slaves full of Iran neholitic / CHG ancestry, it starts to deteriorate a lot, They change the religion of the empire and destroy it at the same time. You can read Juvenal satyre about it


Christian ERE outlasted pagan RE for about 1000+ years, so no.

[Mesoman]

I forgot Yamnaya also had some important Natufian, they were almost like a "russian+lebanese mix".

can you post the modelings in which Yamnaya gets modeled with Natufian

[kingmob]

can you post the modelings in which Yamnaya gets modeled with Natufian



Conclusion
To summarize our results in this section, when we consider Neolithic sources, we can model
the ancestry of the Yamnaya cluster as a mixture of a southern source from the South Caucasus
and a CHG/EHG-admixed source which does not correspond to any of the sampled Eneolithic
populations of the steppe either because they might not have the right balance of CHG and EHG
ancestry -which presumably existed in other proportions than those in sampled individuals- or
because they have extra Siberian affinity.
The populations of the South Caucasus can be modeled as having both Anatolian and
Levantine-related ancestry using the analysis of the Neolithic continuum (11) and in terms of the
5-source model (Supplementary Text S3, Fig. S 3, Fig. 5) and could thus be useful candidates for
contributing this type of ancestry to the Yamnaya along the Caucasus genetic bridge (Fig. 3; Fig.
S 3). Our modeling suggests that the contribution of the southern population to the ancestry of
the Yamnaya was substantial. When we consider more proximal Chalcolithic/Eneolithic sources,
the Yamnaya cluster can be modeled with a Southern Arc source that is not geographically well-
localized but includes the Caucasus and SE Anatolia and northern ancestry related to the
Eneolithic of the North Caucasus Piedmont but not corresponding to it exactly (having more
EHG ancestry than it and no Siberian affinity).

Harvard (2022), southern arc supp page 308.

[FinalFlash]

Disagree

CHG rich populations

Dagestan


https://youtu.be/hHwOq78wf4A?si=5DUQl-TQA---9Z34

Georgia


https://youtu.be/abS15Ntbhcw?si=qW0LDY0QdOjGkicm


EEF rich population

Sardinians


https://youtu.be/K3f-Ns08Hxw?si=zpXtkiwnux8NRx7F

Yamnaya, not CHG is arguably the most important admixture in Dagestan, especially where Lezgins, Avars, and Laks are concerned.

Georgians look woggier than the Dagestan and the Sardinian set and have more individuals that pass outside of Europe than the latter.

[Token]

The few skeletal remains of CHGs are metrically and morphologically indistinguishable from European hunter-gatherers, if this can be generalized to the whole population is debatable. On the other hand, many of the EEFs showed incipiently negroid tendencies. Pigmentation is uncertain as there is no reliable way to predict the pigmentation of prehistoric populations at the moment.

[Avicenna]

Yamnaya, not CHG is arguably the most important admixture in Dagestan, especially where Lezgins, Avars, and Laks are concerned.

Georgians look woggier than the Dagestan and the Sardinian set and have more individuals that pass outside of Europe than the latter.


To my eyes the georgians look less woggier than the sardinians, among the sardinians there are extremely woggy looking types that will look even woggy for west Asia. Whereas I didn't get that with Georgia. Also, we are not talking about passing outside/inside of Europe , your initial comment was that CHG rich populations of which both Dagestanis and Georgians are rich in, produce more "woggier " ( i.e darker hair skin etc ) than EEF rich population.

The Georgians and Dagestanis are both lighter in appearance than the Sardinians.

Amazing EEF rich euro looking folk right

https://i.ibb.co/2ZCLrx7/Screenshot-20230825-162308-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/HhbMy6D)
https://i.ibb.co/514sKDg/Screenshot-20230825-162315-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/2FhcZ21)
https://i.ibb.co/tKWBFtd/Screenshot-20230825-162240-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/F3j6CMP)
https://i.ibb.co/NV3cp6S/Screenshot-20230825-162256-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/7YzsVJ4)
https://i.ibb.co/MVgSVqy/Screenshot-20230825-162442-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Kq5hqCc)
https://i.ibb.co/PhfrMfW/Screenshot-20230825-162218-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/WyYH0Yz)
https://i.ibb.co/YkS8QFT/Screenshot-20230825-162229-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/4TLMtng)
https://i.ibb.co/Hg3gFKH/Screenshot-20230825-162407-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/C0D01wH)
https://i.ibb.co/KjkqBc9/Screenshot-20230825-162427-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/WWwy7Nc)
https://i.ibb.co/5RzPnxk/Screenshot-20230825-162349-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/71TqRNQ)
https://i.ibb.co/GM7BCHY/Screenshot-20230825-162403-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/T0cpPWj)
https://i.ibb.co/VtNHGyB/Screenshot-20230825-162331-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Xb4yPBJ)

[papa diddy pop]

To my eyes the georgians look less woggier than the sardinians, among the sardinians there are extremely woggy looking types that will look even woggy for west Asia. Whereas I didn't get that with Georgia. Also, we are not talking about passing outside/inside of Europe , your initial comment was that CHG rich populations of which both Dagestanis and Georgians are rich in, produce more "woggier " ( i.e darker hair skin etc ) than EEF rich population.

The Georgians and Dagestanis are both lighter in appearance than the Sardinians.

Amazing EEF rich euro looking folk right

https://i.ibb.co/2ZCLrx7/Screenshot-20230825-162308-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/HhbMy6D)
https://i.ibb.co/514sKDg/Screenshot-20230825-162315-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/2FhcZ21)
https://i.ibb.co/tKWBFtd/Screenshot-20230825-162240-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/F3j6CMP)
https://i.ibb.co/NV3cp6S/Screenshot-20230825-162256-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/7YzsVJ4)
https://i.ibb.co/MVgSVqy/Screenshot-20230825-162442-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Kq5hqCc)
https://i.ibb.co/PhfrMfW/Screenshot-20230825-162218-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/WyYH0Yz)
https://i.ibb.co/YkS8QFT/Screenshot-20230825-162229-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/4TLMtng)
https://i.ibb.co/Hg3gFKH/Screenshot-20230825-162407-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/C0D01wH)
https://i.ibb.co/KjkqBc9/Screenshot-20230825-162427-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/WWwy7Nc)
https://i.ibb.co/5RzPnxk/Screenshot-20230825-162349-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/71TqRNQ)
https://i.ibb.co/GM7BCHY/Screenshot-20230825-162403-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/T0cpPWj)
https://i.ibb.co/VtNHGyB/Screenshot-20230825-162331-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Xb4yPBJ)

Sardinian are as much ancient néolithique european as though 122977

[ninjaboy]

can you post the modelings in which Yamnaya gets modeled with Natufian

I don't buy that the Yamnaya had some Natufian or Levantine ancestry proper because no one before has ever detected it, including the Reich Lab.

Unfortunately, when it comes to ancient European DNA and ethnogenesis, Lazaridis, Krause, and Reich are biased and compromised. They're salty and butthurted and can't cope with the fact that the original or first Indo-Europeans didn't come from SW Asia but from Europe. Not surprising given Krause and Reich's support for open borders, unrestricted third-world migration to Europe, and interracial marriages and mixing. Krause, for example, believes that the PIE originated in Iran, whereas Reich and Lazaridis believe that it originated somewhere in West Asia, south of the Caucasus. The thing is:Krause works for the Max-Planck-Institut, which publicly supports BLM and wokeness. That should tell you everything you need to know about the academics who work there. Furthermore, Harvard's anti-European and anti-white sentiments are not hidden. Hence why, geneticists have falsely labeled PIEs as "Asian or Central Asian invaders". The geneticists, as liberal leftists, are irritated at*the genetic evidence that Proto-Indo-Europeans originated in Eastern Europe and were most genetically similar to modern Northern Europeans. In their views admitting that the PIE's homeland is Eastern Europe provides ammunition for white supremacists and white nationalists. As a result, they do everything they can to shift the PIE's original home to the Middle East.

[Frowning Man]

I have an ultra-high % CHG and almost no foreign impurities outside the Caucasus. I am the standard of CHG , an ancient archaic preserved in isolation. I am CHG.
The highest % CHG among the inhabitants of the Caucasian region is among the western Georgians - Imeretians, Gurians, Abkhazians, Svans, and especially Megrelians.
https://sun9-61.userapi.com/impg/u_NwFWTBWCZLjO6CafXgxdHrGHlyEjVzw2hDeA/gJXJs3dE46E.jpg?size=1280x557&quality=95&sign=cdc6ad10dd80ee1908c1ffb1a30cff0e&type=album

[ninjaboy]

Sardinian are as much ancient néolithique european as though 122977

In terms of phenotype, there are not few Sardinians with rather broad features and a slightly prognastic appearance, but there are also many Sardinians with more refined facial features. Geneticists have concluded that Anatolian or Early European farmers are responsible for blondism and blue eyes in modern Europeans, which I find unconvincing when looking at Sardinians, who are mostly or entirely EEFs. Regardless of their physical appearance or woggishness, EEFs were still Europeans and a remarkably successful ancient population.

[FinalFlash]

[QUOTE=Avicenna;7788733]To my eyes the georgians look less woggier than the sardinians, among the sardinians there are extremely woggy looking types that will look even woggy for west Asia. Whereas I didn't get that with Georgia. Also, we are not talking about passing outside/inside of Europe , your initial comment was that CHG rich populations of which both Dagestanis and Georgians are rich in, produce more "woggier " ( i.e darker hair skin etc ) than EEF rich population.

The Georgians and Dagestanis are both lighter in appearance than the Sardinians.

Again, the notable ethnic groups in Dagestan and the NE Caucasus region in general aren't CHG-heavy. You're conflating them with NW Caucasians like the Adyghe and Circassians who are CHG-heavy. Yamnaya admixture is far more prevalent in the NE than CHG Kotias so using Avars and Lezgins isn't the best choice for CHG.

Also, disagree with your point about Georgians. At least half the Georgian population are Eastern CHG-heavy Georgians and they are by no means less woggy than Sardinians on average. Only extreme NW Georgians like the Svan and Megrel subgroups can be argued to be less woggy and even then I highly doubt that to be the case if my anecdotal experiences. Georgian wogginess is understated by virtue of them being the lightest pigmented West Asians on average

[ugochaves]

In terms of phenotype, there are not few Sardinians with rather broad features and a slightly prognastic appearance, but there are also many Sardinians with more refined facial features. Geneticists have concluded that Anatolian or Early European farmers are responsible for blondism and blue eyes in modern Europeans, which I find unconvincing when looking at Sardinians, who are mostly or entirely EEFs. Regardless of their physical appearance or woggishness, EEFs were still Europeans and a remarkably successful ancient population.
whg - blue eyes
ehg, eef - blond hair
It seems so.

[kingmob]

I don't buy that the Yamnaya had some Natufian or Levantine ancestry proper because no one before has ever detected it, including the Reich Lab.

Unfortunately, when it comes to ancient European DNA and ethnogenesis, Lazaridis, Krause, and Reich are biased and compromised. They're salty and butthurted and can't cope with the fact that the original or first Indo-Europeans didn't come from SW Asia but from Europe. Not surprising given Krause and Reich's support for open borders, unrestricted third-world migration to Europe, and interracial marriages and mixing. Krause, for example, believes that the PIE originated in Iran, whereas Reich and Lazaridis believe that it originated somewhere in West Asia, south of the Caucasus. The thing is:Krause works for the Max-Planck-Institut, which publicly supports BLM and wokeness. That should tell you everything you need to know about the academics who work there. Furthermore, Harvard's anti-European and anti-white sentiments are not hidden. Hence why, geneticists have falsely labeled PIEs as "Asian or Central Asian invaders". The geneticists, as liberal leftists, are irritated at*the genetic evidence that Proto-Indo-Europeans originated in Eastern Europe and were most genetically similar to modern Northern Europeans. In their views admitting that the PIE's homeland is Eastern Europe provides ammunition for white supremacists and white nationalists. As a result, they do everything they can to shift the PIE's original home to the Middle East.

Your essay reads like peak estrogen, though, dudebro.

Less emotions more facts.

Can you refute those qpadm runs?

[Frowning Man]

[QUOTE=Avicenna;7788733]To my eyes the georgians look less woggier than the sardinians, among the sardinians there are extremely woggy looking types that will look even woggy for west Asia. Whereas I didn't get that with Georgia. Also, we are not talking about passing outside/inside of Europe , your initial comment was that CHG rich populations of which both Dagestanis and Georgians are rich in, produce more "woggier " ( i.e darker hair skin etc ) than EEF rich population.

The Georgians and Dagestanis are both lighter in appearance than the Sardinians.

Again, the notable ethnic groups in Dagestan and the NE Caucasus region in general aren't CHG-heavy. You're conflating them with NW Caucasians like the Adyghe and Circassians who are CHG-heavy. Yamnaya admixture is far more prevalent in the NE than CHG Kotias so using Avars and Lezgins isn't the best choice for CHG.

Also, disagree with your point about Georgians. At least half the Georgian population are Eastern CHG-heavy Georgians and they are by no means less woggy than Sardinians on average. Only extreme NW Georgians like the Svan and Megrel subgroups can be argued to be less woggy and even then I highly doubt that to be the case if my anecdotal experiences. Georgian wogginess is understated by virtue of them being the lightest pigmented West Asians on average

1) Western Georgians make up a numerical majority over the Eastern ones. There are more people of Western Georgian origin.
2) It is the western Georgians who have the highest% CHG and the smallest% of the steppe, and not the eastern ones.
3) What does this phrase mean? "Only extreme NW Georgians like the Svan and Megrel subgroups can be argued to be less woggy and even then I highly doubt that to be the case if my anecdotal experiences."

[Katarzyna]

[QUOTE=Avicenna;7788733]To my eyes the georgians look less woggier than the sardinians, among the sardinians there are extremely woggy looking types that will look even woggy for west Asia. Whereas I didn't get that with Georgia. Also, we are not talking about passing outside/inside of Europe , your initial comment was that CHG rich populations of which both Dagestanis and Georgians are rich in, produce more "woggier " ( i.e darker hair skin etc ) than EEF rich population.

The Georgians and Dagestanis are both lighter in appearance than the Sardinians.

Again, the notable ethnic groups in Dagestan and the NE Caucasus region in general aren't CHG-heavy. You're conflating them with NW Caucasians like the Adyghe and Circassians who are CHG-heavy. Yamnaya admixture is far more prevalent in the NE than CHG Kotias so using Avars and Lezgins isn't the best choice for CHG.

Also, disagree with your point about Georgians. At least half the Georgian population are Eastern CHG-heavy Georgians and they are by no means less woggy than Sardinians on average. Only extreme NW Georgians like the Svan and Megrel subgroups can be argued to be less woggy and even then I highly doubt that to be the case if my anecdotal experiences. Georgian wogginess is understated by virtue of them being the lightest pigmented West Asians on average

I agree that Georgians and Armenians can look very pale sometimes however it doesn’t really make them look white in the European sense. Cause when they are bleached they oftentimes look like Pseudo-Jews.
Example: Georgian-Armenian singer Iru Khachanovi, mixtures of North Pontid and Armenoid which appears a little Pseudo-Levantine

https://i.ibb.co/rGL1t5t/IMG-3430.jpg (https://ibb.co/mCYMBhB)

[FinalFlash]

[QUOTE=FinalFlash;7788766]

1) Western Georgians make up a numerical majority over the Eastern ones. There are more people of Western Georgian origin.
2) It is the western Georgians who have the highest% CHG and the smallest% of the steppe, and not the eastern ones.
3) What does this phrase mean? "Only extreme NW Georgians like the Svan and Megrel subgroups can be argued to be less woggy and even then I highly doubt that to be the case if my anecdotal experiences."

1. The majority of Georgians live in the more urban Tbilisi and Kakheti/Kartli regions in Eastern Georgia
2. Yes, they do, but their slightly higher CHG admix isn't the reason for being less woggy than their Eastern Counterparts. The reason is because of the excess Iran_N in Eastern Georgians relative to their Western counterparts. Both East and West have roughly the same amount of EEF.
3. Svans and Megrels have almost no Iran_N or Natufian hence them being the least woggy Georgians, not because of their similar amounts of EEF to their Eastern counterparts.

[Avicenna]

Sardinian are as much ancient néolithique european as though 122977

So what?

https://i.ibb.co/2ZCLrx7/Screenshot-20230825-162308-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/HhbMy6D)

[Frowning Man]

[QUOTE=Frowning Man;7788776]

1. The majority of Georgians live in the more urban Tbilisi and Kakheti/Kartli regions in Eastern Georgia
2. Yes, they do, but their slightly higher CHG admix isn't the reason for being less woggy than their Eastern Counterparts. The reason is because of the excess Iran_N in Eastern Georgians relative to their Western counterparts. Both East and West have roughly the same amount of EEF.
3. Svans and Megrels have almost no Iran_N or Natufian hence them being the least woggy Georgians, not because of their similar amounts of EEF to their Eastern counterparts.

1) Well, probably because many Westerners moved to the east, since there are economic centers. There are fewer indigenous Eastern Georgians themselves than Western. The most numerous Georgian groups are Mingrelians and Imeretians - west. Any Georgian versed in the history of the country will say this.
2)What is meant by "Woggy", what does it mean in simple terms? I don't understand English terms.

[Frowning Man]

[QUOTE=FinalFlash;7788766]

I agree that Georgians and Armenians can look very pale sometimes however it doesn’t really make them look white in the European sense. Cause when they are bleached they oftentimes look like Pseudo-Jews.
Example: Georgian-Armenian singer Iru Khachanovi, mixtures of North Pontid and Armenoid which appears a little Pseudo-Levantine

https://i.ibb.co/rGL1t5t/IMG-3430.jpg (https://ibb.co/mCYMBhB)

She is an ethnic Armenian. She has nothing to do with ethnic Georgians, just from Georgia.

[Avicenna]

[QUOTE=FinalFlash;7788766]

I agree that Georgians and Armenians can look very pale sometimes however it doesn’t really make them look white in the European sense. Cause when they are bleached they oftentimes look like Pseudo-Jews.
Example: Georgian-Armenian singer Iru Khachanovi, mixtures of North Pontid and Armenoid which appears a little Pseudo-Levantine

https://i.ibb.co/rGL1t5t/IMG-3430.jpg (https://ibb.co/mCYMBhB)

More Jewish looking than those Sardinians? Why are people so biased? Those Sardinians look Alot like Balkan gypsies ( some of them ).

[Abti]

Probably EEF, they’re as comparable to gypos, but even then the EEF-admixed West Georgians tend to be lighter. So what did that tell us? CHG also had more northerly admixture such as that from Borealia and Indigenious European related admixture. EEF were middle easterners, CHG were caucasians.

[rothaer]

I don't buy that the Yamnaya had some Natufian or Levantine ancestry proper because no one before has ever detected it, including the Reich Lab.

Unfortunately, when it comes to ancient European DNA and ethnogenesis, Lazaridis, Krause, and Reich are biased and compromised. They're salty and butthurted and can't cope with the fact that the original or first Indo-Europeans didn't come from SW Asia but from Europe. Not surprising given Krause and Reich's support for open borders, unrestricted third-world migration to Europe, and interracial marriages and mixing. Krause, for example, believes that the PIE originated in Iran, whereas Reich and Lazaridis believe that it originated somewhere in West Asia, south of the Caucasus. The thing is:Krause works for the Max-Planck-Institut, which publicly supports BLM and wokeness. That should tell you everything you need to know about the academics who work there. Furthermore, Harvard's anti-European and anti-white sentiments are not hidden. Hence why, geneticists have falsely labeled PIEs as "Asian or Central Asian invaders". The geneticists, as liberal leftists, are irritated at*the genetic evidence that Proto-Indo-Europeans originated in Eastern Europe and were most genetically similar to modern Northern Europeans. In their views admitting that the PIE's homeland is Eastern Europe provides ammunition for white supremacists and white nationalists. As a result, they do everything they can to shift the PIE's original home to the Middle East.

You may find this text interesting that I found somewhere:


Habe Ende 2020 von Johannes Krause „mit“ Thomas Trappe, Die Reise unserer Gene, Berlin 2020 (Taschenbuchausgabe), gelesen. Der Umstand, daß das Buch ausweislich seines Vorwortes ausdrücklich eine politische Wirkung entfalten (bei welcher die Masseneinwanderung raumfremder Menschen für i. O. befunden wird) soll, sei einmal erwähnt. Es sollte einem Leser bewußt sein. Da die darin zum Ausdruck gebrachte Absicht die eines Menschen ist und nicht beschränkt auf ein Buch, müßte der Verfasser folgerichtig bei jeder seiner Veröffentlichungen unter Interessenkonflikt eine entsprechende Angabe machen. Denn bei einem so ausgesprochenen politischen Wollen besteht die Gefahr einer Verengung sowohl der Erkenntnis, als auch der Mitteilung gewonnener Erkenntnis.
Der überwiegende Teil des Buches ist aber sachlich und auch gehaltvoll. Es ist sehr gut lesbar.
Das Buch enthält nur wenige regelrechte Fehler. Diese - und kein bloßer Meinungsstreit, der naturgemäß an viel mehr Stellen möglich wäre - sollen aber nachstehend kurz angemerkt werden. Es wird in vielen Fällen davon abgesehen, die Fehler eingehender zu begründen. Wer den Hinweis erhält, kann damit selbst schon die einschlägigen Gegebenheiten ermitteln.

- S. 25:
„Was hatten wir in der DNA des Fingerknochens gesehen? Sie unterschied sich sich auf doppelt so vielen Positionen vom Erbgut heutiger Menschen wie die DNA des Neandertalers von der unseren. Das musste heißen, dass der Mensch aus der Denisova-Höhle und der Neandertaler schon länger getrennte evolutionäre Wege gingen als Neandertaler und moderner Mensch“:

Logikfehler. Bei genau doppelt so vielen Abweichungen vom modernen Menschen könnten Neandertaler und Denisowaner genau so lange getrennte Wege gegangen sein, wie Neandertaler und moderner Mensch. Bei nur knapp doppelt so vielen Abweichungen könnten Denisovaner und Neandertaler weniger lange getrennt gewesen sein.

- S. 36:
„Das Erbgut eines zehn Generationen zurückliegenden Ahnen ist mit hoher Wahrscheinlichkeit nicht mehr in einem aktuellen Genom aufzuspüren.“

Nein. Die Wahrscheinlichkeit beträgt etwa 50%, vgl. https://gcbias.org/.../how-much-of-your-genome-do-you.../

- S. 37:
Dort wird oben von den Leuten der Grubengrabkultur (engl. Yamnaya) aus der osteuropäischen Steppe gesprochen. Das ist ganz zutreffend. An praktisch allen anderen Stellen im Buch, die hier gar nicht einzeln genannt werden sollen, wird davon gesprochen, daß diese „nach Europa“ usw. kamen, was natürlich schlicht unzutreffend ist, wenn sie aus einem bestimmten Teil von Europa kommen (was sie auch tun).

- S. 37:
„Populationen, die geografisch und genetisch so eng beieinanderliegen wie etwa Franzosen und Portugiesen, sind deswegen auch nur mithilfe der Hochleistungssequenzierung voneinander zu unterscheiden.“

Unrichtig, wie jeder weiß, der sich eingehender mit Herkunftsschätzungen aus einfachen genealogischen DNS-Tests befaßt hat.

- S. 47:
„Die ältesten Fossilien des Homo sapiens sind etwa 160000 bis 200000 Jahre alt und stammen aus Äthiopien.“:

Nein. Es gibt diese Funde des anatomisch modernen Menschen:
- Dschebel Irhoud, Marokko, etwa 300.000 Jahre alt, neu bestimmt 2017.
- Apidima 1, Griechenland, etwa 210.000 Jahre alt, neu bestimmt 2019.
- Misliya-Höhle, Israel, etwa 180.000 Jahre alt, gefunden 2018.

- S. 96:
Es sind die Pfeile der Ausbreitung von Jäger-Sammlern aus (etwa) Skandinavien als Darstellung von Wissen unrichtig. Sie sind rein spekulativ und vermutlich sogar unzutreffend.
Man hat lediglich eine Erhöhung des Anteiles des Wildbeuter-Erbgutes in den Ackerbauern festgestellt. Dieses erklärt sich zwanglos bereits aus einem Aufgehen der letzten getrennt lebenden Wildbeuter - deren Bestattungen mangels Seßhaftigkeit schwer zu finden sind - in den Ackernbauern.

- S. 105:
„Nur konnten sich in Skandinavien die Jäger und Sammler besser als im übrigen Europa behaupten, ihre DNA ist heute im Norden präsenter als irgendwo sonst auf dem Kontinent.“:

Letzteres ist schlicht falsch. Die höchste Erbanteile von Jägern und Sammlern sind in Nordnosteuropa. Schon Finnland hat unvergleichlich höhere Anteile als Skandinavien ( = skandinavische Halbinsel), aber auch das Baltikum und Nordrußland. Länder, wie Weißrußland und Polen haben Anteile wie in Skandinavien.
Es ist aber auch der suggerierte Zusammenhang zwischen den Verhältnissen heute und denen bei der Ausbreitung der Bauern in Skandinavien irreführend, weil etwa 4/5 (!) des heutigen Erbgutanteiles von Jäger-Sammlern in Skandinavien, von der späteren Einwanderung grubengrababgeleiteter Menschen (Streitaxtleute) herrührt.

- S. 107:
„In der DNA vor allem der Nord- und Mitteleuropäer schlägt sich die Trichterbecher-Epoche bis heute nieder. Bei Skandinaviern ist die genetische Komponente der Jäger und Sammler fast genauso groß wie die der anatolischen Ackerbauern, in Litauen, also dem dem östlichen Trichterbecher-Gebiet, übertrifft sie diese sogar. Im Süden Europas, wohin die anatolische Einwanderung zuerst kam, überwiegt und die skandinavische Gegenbewegung nicht vordrang, überwiegt hingegen das anatolische Element. Heutige Südfranzosen und Nordspanier haben kaum Jäger-und-Sammler-DNA, die Menschen in der Toskana noch weniger.“

Zur „skandinavischen Gegenbewegung“ wurde bereits ausgeführt.
- Die Trichterbecherkultur war nicht in Litauen, ein Vorhandensein im Grenzbereich vorbehalten.
- Die Trichterbecherkultur war auch nur zu einem geringen Bruchteil in Skandinavien ( = skandinavische Halbinsel).
- Ein Trichterbecher-Mensch aus Skandinavien (Kvarlöv5164) hatte etwa 7,5 % EHG + 14% WHG = 21,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein anderer Trichterbecher-Mensch aus Skandinavien (Gökhem2) hatte etwa 5 % EHG + 16,5% WHG = 21,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Italiener aus Latium hat etwa 13% EHG + 2,5% WHG = 15,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Südfranzose aus der Auvergne hat 27,5% EGH + 5,5% WHG = 33% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Spanier aus Kastilien hat 22,5% EHG + 5,5% WHG = 28% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger (durchschnittlicher) Deutscher hat 34% EHG + 6,5% WHG = 40,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ich (Ost-Deutscher) habe 38% EHG + 7,5% WHG = 45,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Schwede hat 39% EHG + 8,5% WHG = 47,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Este hat 51% EHG + 5,5% WHG = 56,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
Es ist also abwegig, skandinavische Trichterbecherleute als Träger eines besonders hohen Erbgutanteils von Jägern und Sammlern zu bezeichnen. Heutige Spanier und Südfranzosen haben erheblich mehr.

- S. 116:
Nachdem von Ur-Nordeurasier (Ancient North Eurasian, ANE) und dem Mal’ta-Jungen gesprochen wird heißt es: „Warum finden wir sie [diese DNS] dennoch in nahezu allen heutigen Europäern, und zwar mit einem Anteil von bis zu 50%?“:

Sie beträgt etwa 16%. Eine Verwechslung mit dem Anteil der „Steppen-DNS“?

- S. 116:
„(...) Mal’ta-Gene. Doch vor 4800 Jahren tauchten sie plötzlich auf, und zwar nicht zaghaft, sondern massiv und schlagartig. Die genetischen Komponenten von der Ackerbauern und der Jäger und Sammler verschwanden in dieser Zeit fast vollständig.“

Unrichtig, möglicherweise sogar aufgrund von mehrfacher Unkenntis.
- Es verschwand „in dieser Zeit“ nicht das besagte Erbgut, sondern in den Gräbern der Einwanderer wurde (natürlich) nur das Erbgut der Einwanderer festgestellt.
- Das Steppen-Ebgut bestand zu 50-60% aus EHG (Rest CHG), so daß das Jäger-Sammler-Erbgut nicht „verschwand“, sondern - im Gegenteil - gewissermaßen explodierte!
- Die Entstehung und genaue Zusammensetzung von EHG ist nicht abschließend geklärt, aber in dieser Komponente ist es, wo etwa 40% ANE/“Mal’ta-Gene“ drin sind.

- S. 118:
„Die Steppen-DNA setzt sich dabei genau genommen aus zwei Teilen zusammen. Denn die Menschen der pontischen Steppe gingen nicht nur auf die anzestralen Nordeurasier zurück, sondern auch auf Einwanderer aus der Region des heutigen Irans - also der östlichen Hälfte des Fruchtbaren Halbmonds, in dem (...)“:

Hier setzt sich wohl tatsächlich Unkenntnis fort.
- Zur Zusammensetzung des Steppenerbgutes s. vorstehend.
- Der Umstand von EHG und etwa 60% davon, nämlich unbenannte europäische HG, die neben den 40% ANE darinnen sind, fallen hier ganz unter den Tisch.
- Der Beitrag von CHG zur späteren Steppen-DNS kommt sehr wahrscheinlich von dort, wo Krause es angibt, nämlich von südöstlich des Kaukasus-Kamms, etwa aus der heutigen Provinz Aserbaidschan im Iran.
- Das ist aber gerade nicht Teil des Fruchtbaren Halbmonds, bitte nachsehen.

- S. 118:
„Die heutigen Europäer sind folglich Nachfahren von Jägern und Sammlern aus Europa und aus Asien sowie zu ungefähr 60 Prozent von westlichen und östlichen Bewohnern des Fruchtbaren Halbmondes.“:

- Falsch.
- Wie wahrscheinlich ist es, daß ein Professor, der ein tausendfach aufgelegtes Sachbuch herausgibt und sich ausdrücklich über den Fruchtbaren Halbmond äußert, weder dessen Ausdehnung im Westen, noch im Osten, kennt? Das ist Abiturwissen.
- Wie wahrscheinlich ist es demgegenüber, daß ein solche Falschaussage absichtlich und aus politischen Gründen gemacht wird?: Sind wir nicht eigentlich alle Iraker und Syrer? Sie verstehen jetzt vielleicht den Interessenkonflikt, den ich Eingangs ansprach.
- Die Ackerbauern in Anatolien leiten sich genetisch auch nicht von einer Zuwanderung aus dem Fruchtbaren Halbmond ab. Der Fund des süd-anatolischen Jäger-Sammlers ZBC aus Pinarbasi legt eine fast vollständige Entwicklung der Bauern aus den örtlichen Jäger-Sammlern nahe und veranschlagt eine mögliche Zuwanderung aus dem Fruchtbaren Halbmond auf allenfalls 5 bis 10%. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-09209-7
- Zutreffend führt Krause an anderer Stelle an, daß diese anatolischen Jäger-Sammler nach derzeitiger Kenntnis im Wesentlichen aus einer Ausbreitung aus Südosteuropa stammmen. Ich habe nun nichts dagegen, diese Leute trotzdem mit „anatolisch“ zu betiteln, wenn sie in Anatolien sind oder frisch von dort gekommen sind. Aber eine rein sachliche Annäherung ist es vielleicht nicht, wenn Krause an anderer Stelle pointiert von einer „schwäbischen Bäuerin“ „aus Anatolien“, spricht, und zwar für eine Zeit von etwa 2000 Jahren nach dem Beginn der Aubreitung. Soll wohl heißen: Sind wir nicht eigentlich alle Cem Özdemir? (Wobei gerade er lustigerweise Tscherkesse ist...)
Die Englischsprachigen, deren Terminologie sonst so gerne übernommen wird, sprechen von early neolithic farmer (ENF). Ist es Ausfluß von Krauses erklärter politischen Agenda, daß hier überhaupt von „anatolischen“ Bauern gesprochen wird?

- S. 139:
Es wird mit einem Pfeil gezeigt, daß Indo-iranisch sich unmittelbar von südlich des Kaukasus ausgebreitet habe. Das ist nach der ganz überwiegenden Meinung in der Wissenschaft unzutreffend, sehr wahrscheinlich auch tatsächlich falsch.
Das Indo-iranische ist dem Baltoslawischen zu ähnlich, als daß eine Trennung bereits vor Ausbreitung der indogermansichen Sprache nach nördlich des Kaukasus möglich wäre. M. E. gilt dasselbe für Griechisch, Armenisch und Albanisch, aber da will ich nicht das Vertreten einer unrichtigen Meinung als glatten Fehler bezeichnen.

- S. 144:
„Die unterschiedlichen Sprachen der benachbarten Kulturen lassen sich demnach vermutlich mit der Einwanderung von Menschen erklären - aus der Steppe kam offenbar das Mykenische nach Griechenland, und damit eine indoeuropäische Sprache.“

Genau. Und was sollen dann die falschen Pfeile für Griechisch auf der Karte, S. 138/139?

- S. 146:
„Die Basken haben tatsächlich mehr Jäger-und-Sammler-DNA als Mitteleuropäer (...)“:

Nein.

- S. 151:
„Das Indoeuropäische hatte somit seinen Ursprung im Fruchtbaren Halbmond, wie von den Anhängern der anatolischen Theorie postuliert, aber eben nicht in West und Zentralanatolien, sondern im nördlichen Iran.“

Kein einziges der drei genannten Gebiete liegt im Fruchtbaren Halbmond.

- S. 152 f.:
„(...) das Keltische, das (...) wahrscheinlich zur Zeit der Glockenbecher-Kultur in weiten Teilen Westeuropas gesprochen wurde (...)“:

Nein. Das Keltische ist kurz vor der Zeitenwende viel zu einheitlich gewesen, als daß es schon seit 2300 v. Chr. über weite Flächen verteilt hätte gesprochen werden können. Vielmehr paßt die Sprache zur erweislichen Ausbreitung der keltischen Sachkultur aus Süddeutschland und der Westalpen ab 750-500 v. Chr.
Unabhängig davon wurden die Britischen Inseln mit aller höchster Wahrscheinlichkeit mit der Ausbreitung der Glockenbecherleute indogermanisiert, vielleicht mit einer dem Keltischen nicht ganz fernstehenden Varietät. Nur kann es nicht Keltisch gewesen sein.

- S. 194:
„So könnte die Beulenpest [Justinianische Pest] über den Kanal ins südliche England geraten sein, als die Angeln und Sachsen auf die Inseln kamen.“

Nein. Deren Ausbreitung war um 440/450, also bummelige 100 Jahre früher.

- S. 218:
„In einem der beiden Tiere, oder in beiden, dürfte (...)“:

Es sind gar nicht zwei Tiere genannt, sondern fünf oder 4 + 1. Auch aus dem Zusammenhang ist das möglicherweise Gemeinte nicht erschließbar.

- S. 242:
„So sind Angehörige der sorbischen Volksgruppe genetisch in keiner Weise von den sie umgebenden Sachsen, Brandenburgern (...) zu unterscheiden (...)“:

Falsch, wie fast jeder Beobachter von LM Genetics-Ähnlichkeitskarten (correlation maps) unschwer feststellen kann.

- S. 250:
„(...) aschkenasische Juden teilen, sondern ein besonderer Genmix, der bei ihnen häufiger auftritt und dessen einzelne Komponenten aus Osteuropa und dem Nahen Osten stammen (...)“:

Nein, aus Osteuropa stammt kein nennenswerter Erbgut-Anteil bei aschkenasischen Juden (gelegentlich mal 10%), sondern aus West- oder Südeuropa (50% (bis theoretisch 100%) Anteil).

- S. 252:
„Kulturelle und andere äußere Faktoren sind weit wichtiger als genetische, ansonsten wäre in Bildungsstudien nicht duzendfach der Zusammenhang von Elterneinkommen und Bildungserfolg belegt.“:

Der zweite Halbsatz beinhaltet den geradezu lehrbuchhaften Denkfehler, eine Korrelation mit einer Ursächlichkeit gleichzusetzen. Kann ein Hochschullehrer so unverständig sein oder ist es versuchte Manipulation?

[rothaer]

In terms of phenotype, there are not few Sardinians with rather broad features and a slightly prognastic appearance, but there are also many Sardinians with more refined facial features. Geneticists have concluded that Anatolian or Early European farmers are responsible for blondism and blue eyes in modern Europeans, which I find unconvincing when looking at Sardinians, who are mostly or entirely EEFs. Regardless of their physical appearance or woggishness, EEFs were still Europeans and a remarkably successful ancient population.

The oldest found blue eyes (i. e. two respective OCA2 genes) are those from the fossil Villabruna1 (14 kybp) that is also essentially the earliest WHG find. (WHG comes via the Northeast Adria region, but it's a little bit foggy from where.) A CHG find in Georgia (Satsurblia) that is just a few centuries younger than Villabruna1 also exhibits that gene, but only once, not double, so that individual will still have had brown eyes. In spite of that the WHG Villabruna1 had blue eyes the vast majority of WHGs the following millenia had brown eyes. Just in the last millenia before the ENF came all WHGs exhibited blue eyes. How this development within WHG had worked and what was the driver is a conundrum.

However, this is an example for that not just the required DNA must be present in a population but also the traits in question must be selected for. So not yet selected for genes may be in whatever population whithout it being visible. This implies that the visible traits of the Sardinias are essentially irrelevant as for the question if they might have brought light skin. They might as well. Here's a map showing the current opinion (I don't state that I agree to every detail on that map:

https://i.imgur.com/wVoLWKr.jpg

The crucial point as for pigmentation is not that much from where a particular gene hails but what later selective processes were active in a population. A number of stronger selective processes are comparably recent.

Interesting pigmentation data on ancient DNA finds is here:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/pigmentation/

[papa diddy pop]

So what?

https://i.ibb.co/2ZCLrx7/Screenshot-20230825-162308-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/HhbMy6D)

I meant not as much.

So Sardinian are not pure EEF they have some iran_N/*CHG and north african in them so putting the woggiest sardinian and say that is what EEF looked like is what I call having an agenda. And in today's Europe Many of the european EEf ancestry is from Funnel beaker who were heavily blond

[papa diddy pop]

I don't buy that the Yamnaya had some Natufian or Levantine ancestry proper because no one before has ever detected it, including the Reich Lab.

Unfortunately, when it comes to ancient European DNA and ethnogenesis, Lazaridis, Krause, and Reich are biased and compromised. They're salty and butthurted and can't cope with the fact that the original or first Indo-Europeans didn't come from SW Asia but from Europe. Not surprising given Krause and Reich's support for open borders, unrestricted third-world migration to Europe, and interracial marriages and mixing. Krause, for example, believes that the PIE originated in Iran, whereas Reich and Lazaridis believe that it originated somewhere in West Asia, south of the Caucasus. The thing is:Krause works for the Max-Planck-Institut, which publicly supports BLM and wokeness. That should tell you everything you need to know about the academics who work there. Furthermore, Harvard's anti-European and anti-white sentiments are not hidden. Hence why, geneticists have falsely labeled PIEs as "Asian or Central Asian invaders". The geneticists, as liberal leftists, are irritated at*the genetic evidence that Proto-Indo-Europeans originated in Eastern Europe and were most genetically similar to modern Northern Europeans. In their views admitting that the PIE's homeland is Eastern Europe provides ammunition for white supremacists and white nationalists. As a result, they do everything they can to shift the PIE's original home to the Middle East.

I agree about Krause, he embraced Wokeness as a Hobby and work. All he cares about is politics rather than facts and truth. I won't be that sure even more the contrary about Reich, I think Reich is forced to lay-low because when He published the 2015 papers about Yamnaya, some scholars he met refused to shake his hand because of it and it worsened with what he said in 2018 : https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/reich-genetics-racism/558818/ :



Due to concerns of political correctness, he argued, scientists are unwilling to do research on—or, in some cases, even discuss—genetic variation between human populations, despite the fact that genetic variations do exist. “It is simply no longer possible to ignore average genetic differences among ‘races,’” he wrote.

Academics are full of Wokes, you can't tell what you think or even the truth

[ugochaves]

I meant not as much.

So Sardinian are not pure EEF they have some iran_N/*CHG and north african in them so putting the woggiest sardinian and say that is what EEF looked like is what I call having an agenda. And in today's Europe Many of the european EEf ancestry is from Funnel beaker who were heavily blond
Almost pure EEF - the Alpine mummy of the "ice man" turned out to be dark-skinned and dark-eyed. Darker than Sardinians.

[Voskos]

Use Ethios for basal. Use Maya for ANE. Use Nganassan for Siberia. Use Han for Chinese. Use Onge for AASI. Now you can do the runs and contrast Greeks and Germans. Forget EEF and bullshits, those are faker than mcdonalds landing on the moon.


Target: Greek_West_Taygetos
Distance: 25.3042% / 0.25304233
45.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Trabzon
Distance: 29.3387% / 0.29338690
52.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
28.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
12.4 Onge
5.6 Mayan
0.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 25.4512% / 0.25451239
45.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
41.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
5.2 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_South_Tsakonia
Distance: 25.9762% / 0.25976159
47.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
38.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Onge
6.0 Mayan
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 25.5450% / 0.25545046
46.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
5.8 Mayan
5.4 Onge
2.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_North_Tsakonia
Distance: 25.8245% / 0.25824547
47.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
39.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.4 Onge
5.8 Mayan
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Messenia
Distance: 25.5822% / 0.25582186
46.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Macedonia
Distance: 25.3584% / 0.25358418
44.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
41.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.6 Onge
2.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Laconia
Distance: 25.6547% / 0.25654687
47.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
39.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.6 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 26.7666% / 0.26766606
51.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
34.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.6 Onge
5.8 Mayan
0.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Izmir
Distance: 25.9268% / 0.25926828
47.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
38.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.8 Onge
6.0 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Elis
Distance: 25.4467% / 0.25446651
46.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_East_Taygetos
Distance: 25.5256% / 0.25525583
47.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
39.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.6 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
Distance: 24.4594% / 0.24459352
43.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
42.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
6.6 Mayan
6.4 Onge
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Dodecanese_Rhodes
Distance: 27.0358% / 0.27035826
53.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
32.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
8.2 Onge
5.0 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Dodecanese
Distance: 26.8534% / 0.26853354
52.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
33.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.6 Onge
5.2 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Deep_Mani
Distance: 26.2750% / 0.26274964
50.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
36.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.2 Onge
5.6 Mayan
0.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
Distance: 26.4171% / 0.26417097
48.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.8 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.4 Onge
7.0 Mayan
1.2 Nganassan
0.6 Han_Shanghai

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Milos
Distance: 26.2123% / 0.26212318
48.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
37.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
8.4 Onge
5.8 Mayan
0.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Kea
Distance: 25.2411% / 0.25241136
47.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
38.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
6.6 Onge
1.0 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
Distance: 26.5915% / 0.26591454
52.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.8 Onge
0.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete_Lasithi
Distance: 26.2681% / 0.26268096
50.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
8.8 Onge
5.4 Mayan
0.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete_Heraklion
Distance: 25.8653% / 0.25865345
50.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.8 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete_Chania
Distance: 25.5896% / 0.25589632
49.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
36.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.6 Onge
1.4 Han_Shanghai
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 26.1983% / 0.26198322
50.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.2 Onge
5.6 Mayan
1.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Corinthia
Distance: 25.7814% / 0.25781436
46.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.4 Mayan
6.0 Onge
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 25.1044% / 0.25104376
44.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
41.8 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Central_Anatolia
Distance: 28.1556% / 0.28155619
52.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
31.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
9.0 Onge
5.4 Mayan
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cappadocia
Distance: 28.2648% / 0.28264783
52.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
30.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
10.0 Onge
5.6 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Argolis
Distance: 25.7990% / 0.25799048
45.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
6.0 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Arcadia
Distance: 25.5235% / 0.25523508
45.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Onge
6.0 Mayan
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Apulia
Distance: 26.0198% / 0.26019846
50.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
37.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
5.8 Mayan
4.8 Onge
2.0 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Achaea
Distance: 25.4553% / 0.25455293
46.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.4 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: German_Hamburg
Distance: 22.2942% / 0.22294236
53.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
33.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.2 Mayan
3.6 Onge
2.6 Nganassan

Target: German_Erlangen
Distance: 22.7169% / 0.22716911
51.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
35.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.8 Mayan
3.6 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: German_East
Distance: 22.6517% / 0.22651681
53.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
33.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.8 Mayan
3.4 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: German
Distance: 22.7132% / 0.22713212
52.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
34.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.8 Mayan
3.2 Onge
2.0 Nganassan

[papa diddy pop]

You may find this text interesting that I found somewhere:


Habe Ende 2020 von Johannes Krause „mit“ Thomas Trappe, Die Reise unserer Gene, Berlin 2020 (Taschenbuchausgabe), gelesen. Der Umstand, daß das Buch ausweislich seines Vorwortes ausdrücklich eine politische Wirkung entfalten (bei welcher die Masseneinwanderung raumfremder Menschen für i. O. befunden wird) soll, sei einmal erwähnt. Es sollte einem Leser bewußt sein. Da die darin zum Ausdruck gebrachte Absicht die eines Menschen ist und nicht beschränkt auf ein Buch, müßte der Verfasser folgerichtig bei jeder seiner Veröffentlichungen unter Interessenkonflikt eine entsprechende Angabe machen. Denn bei einem so ausgesprochenen politischen Wollen besteht die Gefahr einer Verengung sowohl der Erkenntnis, als auch der Mitteilung gewonnener Erkenntnis.
Der überwiegende Teil des Buches ist aber sachlich und auch gehaltvoll. Es ist sehr gut lesbar.
Das Buch enthält nur wenige regelrechte Fehler. Diese - und kein bloßer Meinungsstreit, der naturgemäß an viel mehr Stellen möglich wäre - sollen aber nachstehend kurz angemerkt werden. Es wird in vielen Fällen davon abgesehen, die Fehler eingehender zu begründen. Wer den Hinweis erhält, kann damit selbst schon die einschlägigen Gegebenheiten ermitteln.

- S. 25:
„Was hatten wir in der DNA des Fingerknochens gesehen? Sie unterschied sich sich auf doppelt so vielen Positionen vom Erbgut heutiger Menschen wie die DNA des Neandertalers von der unseren. Das musste heißen, dass der Mensch aus der Denisova-Höhle und der Neandertaler schon länger getrennte evolutionäre Wege gingen als Neandertaler und moderner Mensch“:

Logikfehler. Bei genau doppelt so vielen Abweichungen vom modernen Menschen könnten Neandertaler und Denisowaner genau so lange getrennte Wege gegangen sein, wie Neandertaler und moderner Mensch. Bei nur knapp doppelt so vielen Abweichungen könnten Denisovaner und Neandertaler weniger lange getrennt gewesen sein.

- S. 36:
„Das Erbgut eines zehn Generationen zurückliegenden Ahnen ist mit hoher Wahrscheinlichkeit nicht mehr in einem aktuellen Genom aufzuspüren.“

Nein. Die Wahrscheinlichkeit beträgt etwa 50%, vgl. https://gcbias.org/.../how-much-of-your-genome-do-you.../

- S. 37:
Dort wird oben von den Leuten der Grubengrabkultur (engl. Yamnaya) aus der osteuropäischen Steppe gesprochen. Das ist ganz zutreffend. An praktisch allen anderen Stellen im Buch, die hier gar nicht einzeln genannt werden sollen, wird davon gesprochen, daß diese „nach Europa“ usw. kamen, was natürlich schlicht unzutreffend ist, wenn sie aus einem bestimmten Teil von Europa kommen (was sie auch tun).

- S. 37:
„Populationen, die geografisch und genetisch so eng beieinanderliegen wie etwa Franzosen und Portugiesen, sind deswegen auch nur mithilfe der Hochleistungssequenzierung voneinander zu unterscheiden.“

Unrichtig, wie jeder weiß, der sich eingehender mit Herkunftsschätzungen aus einfachen genealogischen DNS-Tests befaßt hat.

- S. 47:
„Die ältesten Fossilien des Homo sapiens sind etwa 160000 bis 200000 Jahre alt und stammen aus Äthiopien.“:

Nein. Es gibt diese Funde des anatomisch modernen Menschen:
- Dschebel Irhoud, Marokko, etwa 300.000 Jahre alt, neu bestimmt 2017.
- Apidima 1, Griechenland, etwa 210.000 Jahre alt, neu bestimmt 2019.
- Misliya-Höhle, Israel, etwa 180.000 Jahre alt, gefunden 2018.

- S. 96:
Es sind die Pfeile der Ausbreitung von Jäger-Sammlern aus (etwa) Skandinavien als Darstellung von Wissen unrichtig. Sie sind rein spekulativ und vermutlich sogar unzutreffend.
Man hat lediglich eine Erhöhung des Anteiles des Wildbeuter-Erbgutes in den Ackerbauern festgestellt. Dieses erklärt sich zwanglos bereits aus einem Aufgehen der letzten getrennt lebenden Wildbeuter - deren Bestattungen mangels Seßhaftigkeit schwer zu finden sind - in den Ackernbauern.

- S. 105:
„Nur konnten sich in Skandinavien die Jäger und Sammler besser als im übrigen Europa behaupten, ihre DNA ist heute im Norden präsenter als irgendwo sonst auf dem Kontinent.“:

Letzteres ist schlicht falsch. Die höchste Erbanteile von Jägern und Sammlern sind in Nordnosteuropa. Schon Finnland hat unvergleichlich höhere Anteile als Skandinavien ( = skandinavische Halbinsel), aber auch das Baltikum und Nordrußland. Länder, wie Weißrußland und Polen haben Anteile wie in Skandinavien.
Es ist aber auch der suggerierte Zusammenhang zwischen den Verhältnissen heute und denen bei der Ausbreitung der Bauern in Skandinavien irreführend, weil etwa 4/5 (!) des heutigen Erbgutanteiles von Jäger-Sammlern in Skandinavien, von der späteren Einwanderung grubengrababgeleiteter Menschen (Streitaxtleute) herrührt.

- S. 107:
„In der DNA vor allem der Nord- und Mitteleuropäer schlägt sich die Trichterbecher-Epoche bis heute nieder. Bei Skandinaviern ist die genetische Komponente der Jäger und Sammler fast genauso groß wie die der anatolischen Ackerbauern, in Litauen, also dem dem östlichen Trichterbecher-Gebiet, übertrifft sie diese sogar. Im Süden Europas, wohin die anatolische Einwanderung zuerst kam, überwiegt und die skandinavische Gegenbewegung nicht vordrang, überwiegt hingegen das anatolische Element. Heutige Südfranzosen und Nordspanier haben kaum Jäger-und-Sammler-DNA, die Menschen in der Toskana noch weniger.“

Zur „skandinavischen Gegenbewegung“ wurde bereits ausgeführt.
- Die Trichterbecherkultur war nicht in Litauen, ein Vorhandensein im Grenzbereich vorbehalten.
- Die Trichterbecherkultur war auch nur zu einem geringen Bruchteil in Skandinavien ( = skandinavische Halbinsel).
- Ein Trichterbecher-Mensch aus Skandinavien (Kvarlöv5164) hatte etwa 7,5 % EHG + 14% WHG = 21,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein anderer Trichterbecher-Mensch aus Skandinavien (Gökhem2) hatte etwa 5 % EHG + 16,5% WHG = 21,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Italiener aus Latium hat etwa 13% EHG + 2,5% WHG = 15,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Südfranzose aus der Auvergne hat 27,5% EGH + 5,5% WHG = 33% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Spanier aus Kastilien hat 22,5% EHG + 5,5% WHG = 28% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger (durchschnittlicher) Deutscher hat 34% EHG + 6,5% WHG = 40,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ich (Ost-Deutscher) habe 38% EHG + 7,5% WHG = 45,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Schwede hat 39% EHG + 8,5% WHG = 47,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
- Ein heutiger Este hat 51% EHG + 5,5% WHG = 56,5% Wildbeuter-DNS.
Es ist also abwegig, skandinavische Trichterbecherleute als Träger eines besonders hohen Erbgutanteils von Jägern und Sammlern zu bezeichnen. Heutige Spanier und Südfranzosen haben erheblich mehr.

- S. 116:
Nachdem von Ur-Nordeurasier (Ancient North Eurasian, ANE) und dem Mal’ta-Jungen gesprochen wird heißt es: „Warum finden wir sie [diese DNS] dennoch in nahezu allen heutigen Europäern, und zwar mit einem Anteil von bis zu 50%?“:

Sie beträgt etwa 16%. Eine Verwechslung mit dem Anteil der „Steppen-DNS“?

- S. 116:
„(...) Mal’ta-Gene. Doch vor 4800 Jahren tauchten sie plötzlich auf, und zwar nicht zaghaft, sondern massiv und schlagartig. Die genetischen Komponenten von der Ackerbauern und der Jäger und Sammler verschwanden in dieser Zeit fast vollständig.“

Unrichtig, möglicherweise sogar aufgrund von mehrfacher Unkenntis.
- Es verschwand „in dieser Zeit“ nicht das besagte Erbgut, sondern in den Gräbern der Einwanderer wurde (natürlich) nur das Erbgut der Einwanderer festgestellt.
- Das Steppen-Ebgut bestand zu 50-60% aus EHG (Rest CHG), so daß das Jäger-Sammler-Erbgut nicht „verschwand“, sondern - im Gegenteil - gewissermaßen explodierte!
- Die Entstehung und genaue Zusammensetzung von EHG ist nicht abschließend geklärt, aber in dieser Komponente ist es, wo etwa 40% ANE/“Mal’ta-Gene“ drin sind.

- S. 118:
„Die Steppen-DNA setzt sich dabei genau genommen aus zwei Teilen zusammen. Denn die Menschen der pontischen Steppe gingen nicht nur auf die anzestralen Nordeurasier zurück, sondern auch auf Einwanderer aus der Region des heutigen Irans - also der östlichen Hälfte des Fruchtbaren Halbmonds, in dem (...)“:

Hier setzt sich wohl tatsächlich Unkenntnis fort.
- Zur Zusammensetzung des Steppenerbgutes s. vorstehend.
- Die Entstehung und genaue Zusammensetzung von EHG ist nicht abschließend geklärt, aber in dieser Komponente ist es, wo etwa 40% ANE/“Mal’ta-Gene“ drin sind. Der Umstand von EHG und etwa 60% davon fallen hier ganz unter den Tisch.
- Der Beitrag von CHG zur späteren Steppen-DNS kommt sehr wahrscheinlich von dort, wo Krause es angibt, nämlich von südöstlich des Kaukasus-Kamms, etwa aus der heutigen Provinz Aserbaidschan im Iran.
- Das ist aber gerade nicht Teil des Fruchtbaren Halbmonds, bitte nachsehen.

- S. 118:
„Die heutigen Europäer sind folglich Nachfahren von Jägern und Sammlern aus Europa und aus Asien sowie zu ungefähr 60 Prozent von westlichen und östlichen Bewohnern des Fruchtbaren Halbmondes.“:

- Falsch.
- Wie wahrscheinlich ist es, daß ein Professor, der ein tausendfach aufgelegtes Sachbuch herausgibt und sich ausdrücklich über den Fruchtbaren Halbmond äußert, weder dessen Ausdehnung im Westen, noch im Osten, kennt? Das ist Abiturwissen.
- Wie wahrscheinlich ist es demgegenüber, daß ein solche Falschaussage absichtlich und aus politischen Gründen gemacht wird?: Sind wir nicht eigentlich alle Iraker und Syrer? Sie verstehen jetzt vielleicht den Interessenkonflikt, den ich Eingangs ansprach.
- Die Ackerbauern in Anatolien leiten sich genetisch auch nicht von einer Zuwanderung aus dem Fruchtbaren Halbmond ab. Der Fund des süd-anatolischen Jäger-Sammlers ZBC aus Pinarbasi legt eine fast vollständige Entwicklung der Bauern aus den örtlichen Jäger-Sammlern nahe und veranschlagt eine mögliche Zuwanderung aus dem Fruchtbaren Halbmond auf allenfalls 5 bis 10%. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-09209-7
- Zutreffend führt Krause an anderer Stelle an, daß diese anatolischen Jäger-Sammler nach derzeitiger Kenntnis im Wesentlichen aus einer Ausbreitung aus Südosteuropa stammmen. Ich habe nun nichts dagegen, diese Leute trotzdem mit „anatolisch“ zu betiteln, wenn sie in Anatolien sind oder frisch von dort gekommen sind. Aber eine rein sachliche Annäherung ist es vielleicht nicht, wenn Krause an anderer Stelle pointiert von einer „schwäbischen Bäuerin“ „aus Anatolien“, spricht, und zwar für eine Zeit von etwa 2000 Jahren nach dem Beginn der Aubreitung. Soll wohl heißen: Sind wir nicht eigentlich alle Cem Özdemir? (Wobei gerade er lustigerweise Tscherkesse ist...)
Die Englischsprachigen, deren Terminologie sonst so gerne übernommen wird, sprechen von early neolithic farmer (ENF). Ist es Ausfluß von Krauses erklärter politischen Agenda, daß hier überhaupt von „anatolischen“ Bauern gesprochen wird?

- S. 139:
Es wird mit einem Pfeil gezeigt, daß Indo-iranisch sich unmittelbar von südlich des Kaukasus ausgebreitet habe. Das ist nach der ganz überwiegenden Meinung in der Wissenschaft unzutreffend, sehr wahrscheinlich auch tatsächlich falsch.
Das Indo-iranische ist dem Baltoslawischen zu ähnlich, als daß eine Trennung bereits vor Ausbreitung der indogermansichen Sprache nach nördlich des Kaukasus möglich wäre. M. E. gilt dasselbe für Griechisch, Armenisch und Albanisch, aber da will ich nicht das Vertreten einer unrichtigen Meinung als glatten Fehler bezeichnen.

- S. 144:
„Die unterschiedlichen Sprachen der benachbarten Kulturen lassen sich demnach vermutlich mit der Einwanderung von Menschen erklären - aus der Steppe kam offenbar das Mykenische nach Griechenland, und damit eine indoeuropäische Sprache.“

Genau. Und was sollen dann die falschen Pfeile für Griechisch auf der Karte, S. 138/139?

- S. 146:
„Die Basken haben tatsächlich mehr Jäger-und-Sammler-DNA als Mitteleuropäer (...)“:

Nein.

- S. 151:
„Das Indoeuropäische hatte somit seinen Ursprung im Fruchtbaren Halbmond, wie von den Anhängern der anatolischen Theorie postuliert, aber eben nicht in West und Zentralanatolien, sondern im nördlichen Iran.“

Kein einziges der drei genannten Gebiete liegt im Fruchtbaren Halbmond.

- S. 152 f.:
„(...) das Keltische, das (...) wahrscheinlich zur Zeit der Glockenbecher-Kultur in weiten Teilen Westeuropas gesprochen wurde (...)“:

Nein. Das Keltische ist kurz vor der Zeitenwende viel zu einheitlich gewesen, als daß es schon seit 2300 v. Chr. über weite Flächen verteilt hätte gesprochen werden können. Vielmehr paßt die Sprache zur erweislichen Ausbreitung der keltischen Sachkultur aus Süddeutschland und der Westalpen ab 750-500 v. Chr.
Unabhängig davon wurden die Britischen Inseln mit aller höchster Wahrscheinlichkeit mit der Ausbreitung der Glockenbecherleute indogermanisiert, vielleicht mit einer dem Keltischen nicht ganz fernstehenden Varietät. Nur kann es nicht Keltisch gewesen sein.

- S. 194:
„So könnte die Beulenpest [Justinianische Pest] über den Kanal ins südliche England geraten sein, als die Angeln und Sachsen auf die Inseln kamen.“

Nein. Deren Ausbreitung war um 440/450, also bummelige 100 Jahre früher.

- S. 218:
„In einem der beiden Tiere, oder in beiden, dürfte (...)“:

Es sind gar nicht zwei Tiere genannt, sondern fünf oder 4 + 1. Auch aus dem Zusammenhang ist das möglicherweise Gemeinte nicht erschließbar.

- S. 242:
„So sind Angehörige der sorbischen Volksgruppe genetisch in keiner Weise von den sie umgebenden Sachsen, Brandenburgern (...) zu unterscheiden (...)“:

Falsch, wie fast jeder Beobachter von LM Genetics-Ähnlichkeitskarten (correlation maps) unschwer feststellen kann.

- S. 250:
„(...) aschkenasische Juden teilen, sondern ein besonderer Genmix, der bei ihnen häufiger auftritt und dessen einzelne Komponenten aus Osteuropa und dem Nahen Osten stammen (...)“:

Nein, aus Osteuropa stammt kein nennenswerter Erbgut-Anteil bei aschkenasischen Juden (gelegentlich mal 10%), sondern aus West- oder Südeuropa (50% (bis theoretisch 100%) Anteil).

- S. 252:
„Kulturelle und andere äußere Faktoren sind weit wichtiger als genetische, ansonsten wäre in Bildungsstudien nicht duzendfach der Zusammenhang von Elterneinkommen und Bildungserfolg belegt.“:

Der zweite Halbsatz beinhaltet den geradezu lehrbuchhaften Denkfehler, eine Korrelation mit einer Ursächlichkeit gleichzusetzen. Kann ein Hochschullehrer so unverständig sein oder ist es versuchte Manipulation?


I read half his book and i saw so many mistakes, some gross ones. This guy is a disgrace to ancient dna study

[Avicenna]

I meant not as much.

So Sardinian are not pure EEF they have some iran_N/*CHG and north african in them so putting the woggiest sardinian and say that is what EEF looked like is what I call having an agenda. And in today's Europe Many of the european EEf ancestry is from Funnel beaker who were heavily blond

So are you implying they are woggy because of Iran N /CHG even though I have just shown you CHG rich population such as Georgians who are relatively lighter than Sardinians. Now THATS an agenda.

[rothaer]

Use Ethios for basal. Use Maya for ANE. Use Nganassan for Siberia. Use Han for Chinese. Use Onge for AASI. Now you can do the runs and contrast Greeks and Germans. Forget EEF and bullshits, those are faker than mcdonalds landing on the moon.


Target: Greek_West_Taygetos
Distance: 25.3042% / 0.25304233
45.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Trabzon
Distance: 29.3387% / 0.29338690
52.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
28.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
12.4 Onge
5.6 Mayan
0.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 25.4512% / 0.25451239
45.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
41.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
5.2 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_South_Tsakonia
Distance: 25.9762% / 0.25976159
47.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
38.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Onge
6.0 Mayan
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 25.5450% / 0.25545046
46.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
5.8 Mayan
5.4 Onge
2.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_North_Tsakonia
Distance: 25.8245% / 0.25824547
47.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
39.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.4 Onge
5.8 Mayan
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Messenia
Distance: 25.5822% / 0.25582186
46.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Macedonia
Distance: 25.3584% / 0.25358418
44.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
41.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.6 Onge
2.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Laconia
Distance: 25.6547% / 0.25654687
47.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
39.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.6 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 26.7666% / 0.26766606
51.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
34.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.6 Onge
5.8 Mayan
0.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Izmir
Distance: 25.9268% / 0.25926828
47.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
38.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.8 Onge
6.0 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Elis
Distance: 25.4467% / 0.25446651
46.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_East_Taygetos
Distance: 25.5256% / 0.25525583
47.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
39.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.6 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
Distance: 24.4594% / 0.24459352
43.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
42.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
6.6 Mayan
6.4 Onge
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Dodecanese_Rhodes
Distance: 27.0358% / 0.27035826
53.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
32.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
8.2 Onge
5.0 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Dodecanese
Distance: 26.8534% / 0.26853354
52.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
33.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.6 Onge
5.2 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Deep_Mani
Distance: 26.2750% / 0.26274964
50.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
36.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.2 Onge
5.6 Mayan
0.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
Distance: 26.4171% / 0.26417097
48.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.8 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.4 Onge
7.0 Mayan
1.2 Nganassan
0.6 Han_Shanghai

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Milos
Distance: 26.2123% / 0.26212318
48.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
37.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
8.4 Onge
5.8 Mayan
0.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Kea
Distance: 25.2411% / 0.25241136
47.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
38.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
6.6 Onge
1.0 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
Distance: 26.5915% / 0.26591454
52.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.8 Onge
0.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete_Lasithi
Distance: 26.2681% / 0.26268096
50.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
8.8 Onge
5.4 Mayan
0.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete_Heraklion
Distance: 25.8653% / 0.25865345
50.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.8 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete_Chania
Distance: 25.5896% / 0.25589632
49.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
36.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.0 Mayan
5.6 Onge
1.4 Han_Shanghai
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 26.1983% / 0.26198322
50.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
35.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
7.2 Onge
5.6 Mayan
1.2 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Corinthia
Distance: 25.7814% / 0.25781436
46.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.4 Mayan
6.0 Onge
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 25.1044% / 0.25104376
44.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
41.8 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
5.8 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Central_Anatolia
Distance: 28.1556% / 0.28155619
52.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
31.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
9.0 Onge
5.4 Mayan
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Cappadocia
Distance: 28.2648% / 0.28264783
52.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
30.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
10.0 Onge
5.6 Mayan
1.4 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Argolis
Distance: 25.7990% / 0.25799048
45.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.6 Mayan
6.0 Onge
1.6 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Arcadia
Distance: 25.5235% / 0.25523508
45.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Onge
6.0 Mayan
1.8 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Apulia
Distance: 26.0198% / 0.26019846
50.0 Ethiopian_Tigray
37.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
5.8 Mayan
4.8 Onge
2.0 Nganassan

Target: Greek_Achaea
Distance: 25.4553% / 0.25455293
46.2 Ethiopian_Tigray
40.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
6.2 Mayan
5.4 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: German_Hamburg
Distance: 22.2942% / 0.22294236
53.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
33.6 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.2 Mayan
3.6 Onge
2.6 Nganassan

Target: German_Erlangen
Distance: 22.7169% / 0.22716911
51.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
35.4 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.8 Mayan
3.6 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: German_East
Distance: 22.6517% / 0.22651681
53.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
33.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.8 Mayan
3.4 Onge
1.8 Nganassan

Target: German
Distance: 22.7132% / 0.22713212
52.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
34.8 Ethiopian_Tigray
7.8 Mayan
3.2 Onge
2.0 Nganassan

Why don't you model with Mayan, Onge and Nganassan only? Would also give results with high distances that add up to 100%.

[Eurafricanid]

Distance to: Mbuti
0.93968215 Georgia_Kotias.SG
0.95553053 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG

My answer is CHG ;)


But honestly now, both were pretty similar populations that were mostly Basal Eurasian-derived, but with a minor European Hunter-Gatherer imput.

[Voskos]

Target: German_Hamburg
Distance: 12.1380% / 0.12137999
46.2 Yemenite_Amran
28.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
20.8 Russia_AfontovaGora3
4.8 Moroccan_North

Target: German_Erlangen
Distance: 12.1038% / 0.12103843
49.2 Yemenite_Amran
26.6 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
19.2 Russia_AfontovaGora3
5.0 Moroccan_North

Target: German_East
Distance: 12.3779% / 0.12377925
48.6 Yemenite_Amran
28.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
20.4 Russia_AfontovaGora3
2.8 Moroccan_North

Target: German
Distance: 12.2111% / 0.12211063
49.0 Yemenite_Amran
27.4 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
19.0 Russia_AfontovaGora3
4.6 Moroccan_North

[catgeorge]

Excellent out of the box post by Voskos.

Now that's interesting stuff.

African genes is certainly underrated in human populations I don't know why

A little bit of African and you have human biological strength
A little bit of Asian and you have human intellectual strength

Mix them all together to get a morph that is close to a European.

Asians do very poorly at sports for example
Africans do very poorly at Academia.

But combined you have strong babies.

[ugochaves]

So, eef is a weed. This weed grows all over the world. And nowhere, except for Sardinians, has a defining meaning. Georgians have it, Russians, Finns, Uzbeks, Tatars, Khanty and Mansi, Norwegians, Swedes, Moroccans and Spaniards, Algerians and Swiss have it. These are peoples of different races, but they all have this eef-weed.

[Petalpusher]

I meant not as much.

So Sardinian are not pure EEF they have some iran_N/*CHG and north african in them so putting the woggiest sardinian and say that is what EEF looked like is what I call having an agenda. And in today's Europe Many of the european EEf ancestry is from Funnel beaker who were heavily blond

Yeah even Sardinians are somewhat mixed. In terms of basalness between CHG and EEF it's not even close. EEF is about half the basal of Iran Hotulllb. It's even less basal like than Steppe EMBA or ANE (yes..). CHG is basically like Natufian with ANE and without something anciently derived from WHG/Villabruna.

Max Basal % admissible in formal stats (i linked the study before):

27 Switzerland_HG
33 SHG
44 EHG
46 ENF
49 Anatolia_N
52 Steppe EMBA
52 ANE
55 Levant_N
61 Armenia EBA
68 CHG
68 Natufian
82 Iran neolithic
97 Iran Hotulllb

In fact it's really simple, whatever it is that has more WHG will be less basal in the end, as it's the most removed of them all. You see that with SHG and EHG too, SHG is more WHG than EHG and indeed funnel beaker were the first heavily depigmented while being fully EEF with a bit of SHG but it's probably a lot of selection as well.

[ugochaves]

Yeah even Sardinians are somewhat mixed. In terms of basalness between CHG and EEF it's not even close. EEF is about half the basal of Iran Hotulllb. It's even less basal like than Steppe EMBA or ANE (yes..). CHG is basically like Natufian with ANE and without something anciently derived from WHG/Villabruna.

Max Basal % admissible in formal stats (i linked the study before):

27 Switzerland_HG
33 SHG
44 EHG
46 ENF
49 Anatolia_N
52 Steppe EMBA
52 ANE
55 Levant_N
61 Armenia EBA
68 CHG
68 Natufian
82 Iran neolithic
97 Iran Hotulllb

In fact it's really simple, whatever it is that has more WHG will be less basal in the end, as it's the most removed of them all. You see that with SHG and EHG too, SHG is more WHG than EHG and indeed funnel beaker were the first heavily depigmented while being fully EEF with a bit of SHG but it's probably a lot of selection as well.
the only eef to whom the skin color was reliably determined is the "Alpine ice man". Previously, it was assumed that he was light-skinned, fair-haired and blue-eyed. According to the results of the research, it turned out that he was a Negro-like type. Eef were negroid.

[papa diddy pop]

the only eef to whom the skin color was reliably determined is the "Alpine ice man". Previously, it was assumed that he was light-skinned, fair-haired and blue-eyed. According to the results of the research, it turned out that he was a Negro-like type. Eef were negroid.

What's your IQ ? Otzi was never assumed to be fair-haird and blue-eyed. Despites WHG being dark, nobody think they're wog, it's all about that nigg...erm I meant basal eurasian blood.

[ugochaves]

What's your IQ ? Otzi was never assumed to be fair-haird and blue-eyed. Despites WHG being dark, nobody think they're wog, it's all about that nigg...erm I meant basal eurasian blood.

The study also showed that Etzi's skin was darker than previously thought. The Ice Man is often described as a light-skinned European with long blond hair. However, the new discoveries are more consistent with the real appearance of the mummy. "It was previously thought that the skin of the mummy darkened during its storage in ice, but we can assume that what we see now largely corresponds to the original color of Etzi's skin," explains Albert Zink, co—author of the article

Source: New-Science.ru https://new-science.ru/o-chem-govorit-novejshij-geneticheskij-analiz-ledyanogo-cheloveka-etci/
https://i.ibb.co/RHdCGdD/6b-Vl94-LLRRY.jpg (https://ibb.co/4N3jw3V)

[Sacrificed Ram]

Distance to: Mbuti
0.93968215 Georgia_Kotias.SG
0.95553053 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG

My answer is CHG ;)


But honestly now, both were pretty similar populations that were mostly Basal Eurasian-derived, but with a minor European Hunter-Gatherer imput.

Any mButi reference out of Africa is neanderthal.

Possibly due its isolation, pygmies tend to retain hidelbergensis/rhodesiensis genes, the most close living relation with neanderthals.

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/12/805237120/ghost-dna-in-west-africans-complicates-story-of-human-origins

[papa diddy pop]

https://i.ibb.co/RHdCGdD/6b-Vl94-LLRRY.jpg (https://ibb.co/4N3jw3V)

Yeah, your article is full of BS and I don't see any blue eyes or blond hair on the pics you posted

[ugochaves]

Yeah, your article is full of BS and I don't see any blue eyes or blond hair on the pics you postedHere is another article, but it is in Russian from the Russian Scientific Forum. Fair skin and fair hair-that's what they used to think. This is also evident in the reconstruction of this ancient man. After a thorough investigation, he was identified as black-haired, bald and very dark. By the way, it is possible that some chg speakers were the ancestors of the Indo-European language. In this case, the meaning of European identity and exclusivity is completely lost. We are all basal albinos.
http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/?page_id=36309

[Sacrificed Ram]

How is EEF related with Basal_Eurasian, but not with Natufians?

[papa diddy pop]

Here is another article, but it is in Russian from the Russian Scientific Forum. Fair skin and fair hair-that's what they used to think. This is also evident in the reconstruction of this ancient man. After a thorough investigation, he was identified as black-haired, bald and very dark. By the way, it is possible that some chg speakers were the ancestors of the Indo-European language. In this case, the meaning of European identity and exclusivity is completely lost. We are all basal albinos.
http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/?page_id=36309

That's not what I read on other more serious paper or even the study back then, only that he had fair skin.

This is horse shit, Indo-european is not from CHG. They certainly spoked some proto-Ibero-Caucasian languages. But It doesn't matter it's not the language that make a man but his DNA. And every white, Indo-European have basal eurasian blood so yeah we're all some sort of basal albinos, some more than other ;)

[Petalpusher]

How is EEF related with Basal_Eurasian, but not with Natufians?

One of the many branches splitting from basal Eurasians, one in mesolithic Levant like the Natufians, and some others leaving for the Caucasus, Iran, and Anatolia, the latter mingled early with something WHG like from Devil's gate, which made them much more removed than all the others, and with time in isolation less and less related to each others. You can see that in many fst of calculators as well. Even in K13 the West Med component is the most distant to full SSA Yoruba because it's very EEF and WHG. The closest to Africa are East med, Red sea and Caucasus. At the end of the day however everything is basal OoA derived, including WHG, and ANE that has some ancient East Eurasian/ENA.

[ugochaves]

https://i.ibb.co/s18wqdQ/800px-Basal-Eurasian-Mbuti-DG.jpg (https://ibb.co/gWkTJLw)

[papa diddy pop]

https://i.ibb.co/s18wqdQ/800px-Basal-Eurasian-Mbuti-DG.jpg (https://ibb.co/gWkTJLw)

lol EHG = 9% ANE

R bearer (25% of the male population) share nothing with their x700 great grand daddy.

25% of the male population for 2-3% max of their autosomal dna in current world population on average, they must have loved those wog pussies.

[Sacrificed Ram]

One of the many branches splitting from basal Eurasians, one in mesolithic Levant like the Natufians, and some others leaving for the Caucasus, Iran, and Anatolia, the latter mingled early with something WHG like from Devil's gate, which made them much more removed than all the others, and with time in isolation less and less related to each others. You can see that in many fst of calculators as well. Even in K13 the West Med component is the most distant to full SSA Yoruba because it's very EEF and WHG. The closest to Africa are East med, Red sea and Caucasus. At the end of the day however everything is basal OoA derived, including WHG, and ANE that has some ancient East Eurasian/ENA.


https://i.ibb.co/s18wqdQ/800px-Basal-Eurasian-Mbuti-DG.jpg (https://ibb.co/gWkTJLw)

Then will be dificult to diferentiate "like" from "proper"

If some component is "Natufian-like" or Natufian proper, because there is insertion of Basal_Eurasian derivatives in diferent points of formation of a component as Yamnaya.

[ugochaves]

lol EHG = 9% ANE

R bearer (25% of the male population) share nothing with their x700 great grand daddy.
Yes, the interest here is taken from the ass. Diagram from Wikipedia. Is there any better?

[Reozek]

Delete

[Reozek]

So what?

https://i.ibb.co/2ZCLrx7/Screenshot-20230825-162308-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/HhbMy6D)This must be the phenotype of Neolithic Sardinia (the so called “Etnia Ozieri“, short, long skulled, likely dark pigmented), but after the Neolithic Sardiania was invaded many times from Continental Europe starting with the Bell Beakers who brought short skulled and taller phenotypes. According to my G25 models there are some Sardinians that can be modelled as 20-25% Dutch... (Vandal genes?)

EEF in average is 70-80% not 100% and Sardinians are much closer to Continental Europeans than Georgians genetically

[Eurafricanid]

Yes, the interest here is taken from the ass. Diagram from Wikipedia. Is there any better?

The diagram is actually taken from this study from 2019.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08220-8

[Abti]

Nevertheless EHG-ANE happen to be woggier than CHG and even more so than Iran-Neolithic, since the former is slightly Basal admixed and Iran-Neolithic having next to none. EHG-ANE still having a large East Asian component. Yamnaya being around 85% EHG-ANE, we know how they turned out to be in comparison to the Funnelbeaker culture.

https://i.imgur.com/y12UtNr.png

[Katarzyna]

Nevertheless EHG-ANE happen to be woggier than CHG and even more so than Iran-Neolithic, since the former is slightly Basal admixed and Iran-Neolithic having next to none. EHG-ANE still having a large East Asian component. Yamnaya being around 85% EHG-ANE, we know how they turned out to be in comparison to the Funnelbeaker culture.

https://i.imgur.com/y12UtNr.png

Lol, the yamnaya guy looks exactly like some Circassian men I met on a Slavic party yesterday xD

[Eurafricanid]

Nevertheless EHG-ANE happen to be woggier than CHG and even more so than Iran-Neolithic, since the former is slightly Basal admixed and Iran-Neolithic having next to none. EHG-ANE still having a large East Asian component. Yamnaya being around 85% EHG-ANE, we know how they turned out to be in comparison to the Funnelbeaker culture.

https://i.imgur.com/y12UtNr.png

The Yamnaya were around 60% EHG, not 85% and EHG is not the same as ANE.

[ugochaves]

Map of the similarity of modern peoples with the Yamnaya culture. As I expected, Russians are not Europeans, but Aryans.
https://i.ibb.co/mCj4rZ8/Yamnaya-500x500.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

This map of distances with the culture of corded ware .
https://i.ibb.co/T0Ds9sJ/Corded-Ware.jpg (https://ibb.co/2M0TGTR)

[Eurafricanid]

Map of the similarity of modern peoples with the Yamnaya culture. As I expected, Russians are not Europeans, but Aryans.
https://i.ibb.co/mCj4rZ8/Yamnaya-500x500.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

This map is similar to the Corded Ware culture .
https://i.ibb.co/T0Ds9sJ/Corded-Ware.jpg (https://ibb.co/2M0TGTR)

Why are parts of North Africa as similar as most of Europe in the Corded Ware map?

[Eurafricanid]

As I already said, both EEF and CHG were very similar in their Basal Eurasian/Eurasian makeup, so there's no reason why to compare them.
Also, Yamnaya were ~37% Basal Eurasian-derived :eek:, which makes them almost as Basal Eurasian as EEF and CHG. :rolleyes:

[ugochaves]

Lol, the yamnaya guy looks exactly like some Circassian men I met on a Slavic party yesterday xD
I don't care who my ancestors were 3000 years ago - dark or light. The main thing today is that we are lighter than you, Europeans, descendants of the weeds of the EEF. Some Caucasian populations are close to us in terms of the contribution of Aryans. You speak our language, although you should speak the language of the Kartvelian group.

3000 BC I mean.

[ugochaves]

As I already said, both EEF and CHG were very similar in their Basal Eurasian/Eurasian makeup, so there's no reason why to compare them.
Also, Yamnaya were ~37% Basal Eurasian-derived :eek:, which makes them almost as Basal Eurasian as EEF and CHG. :rolleyes:
It makes no sense to dig into antiquity when a person came out of Africa. All Eurasian populations of that time were similar to each other.

[Abti]

The Yamnaya were around 60% EHG, not 85% and EHG is not the same as ANE.


According to Allentoft (2015) and Haak et al. (2015) revealed,

" that Yamnayans were a blend of three ancestral populations. The dominant element (55 to 85%) was the Mesolithic Eastern Hunter-Gatherer (EHG). Then came the Caucasian Hunter-Gatherer (CHG) admixture, making up about 15-25% of their genomes. "

CHG could have been a minor player in the creation of the Steppe ethogenisis.

[Abti]

…..

[Abti]

EHG were around 80% ANE & 20% AHG-like admixture.

So they could just be pure ANE + some drift.

[Abti]

As I already said, both EEF and CHG were very similar in their Basal Eurasian/Eurasian makeup, so there's no reason why to compare them.
Also, Yamnaya were ~37% Basal Eurasian-derived :eek:, which makes them almost as Basal Eurasian as EEF and CHG. :rolleyes:

No they weren’t, they’re in fact drifted from each other in their makeup.

Plus, CHG has less basal than EEF coming from their levant_N admixture on top of their "purer" basal ancestry not coming from their levant_n admixture.

[Eurafricanid]

According to Allentoft (2015) and Haak et al. (2015) revealed,

" that Yamnayans were a blend of three ancestral populations. The dominant element (55 to 85%) was the Mesolithic Eastern Hunter-Gatherer (EHG). Then came the Caucasian Hunter-Gatherer (CHG) admixture, making up about 15-25% of their genomes. "

CHG could have been a minor player in the creation of the Steppe ethogenisis.


I guess you ignored the 55 side, but, anyways, this study from 2019 sheds more light into the matter:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08220-8

A image from the study:
https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08220-8/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8220_Fig4_HTML.png?as=webp

[Eurafricanid]

It makes no sense to dig into antiquity when a person came out of Africa. All Eurasian populations of that time were similar to each other.

I don't know what you meant in the Bolded statement, but to your second statement, no, at the time of Mesolithic European Hunter-Gatherers, all eurasian populations were very distinct and I don't know where you found that they somehow weren't.

[Eurafricanid]

No they weren’t, they’re in fact drifted from each other in their makeup.

Plus, CHG has less basal than EEF coming from their levant_N admixture on top of their "purer" basal ancestry not coming from their levant_n admixture.

First, I didn't say that both populations were similar to each other in general, I was only talking about their Eurasian/Basal Eurasian makeup, second, saying that somehow Levant basal eurasians were somehow "purer" than Iranian basal is coping and beyond me.

[ugochaves]

I guess you ignored the 55 side, but, anyways, this study from 2019 sheds more light into the matter:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08220-8

A image from the study:
https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08220-8/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8220_Fig4_HTML.png?as=webp

Target: Khvalynsk_Eneolithic
Distance: 3.5509% / 0.03550923
84.2 EHG
15.0 CHG
0.8 Barcin_N

Target: Yamnaya_Ukraine
Distance: 6.2369% / 0.06236929
56.8 EHG
36.6 CHG
6.6 Barcin_N

Target: Vonyuchka_Eneolithic
Distance: 5.6166% / 0.05616579
52.2 CHG
47.8 EHG

[Katarzyna]

Target: Khvalynsk_Eneolithic
Distance: 3.5509% / 0.03550923
84.2 EHG
15.0 CHG
0.8 Barcin_N

Target: Yamnaya_Ukraine
Distance: 6.2369% / 0.06236929
56.8 EHG
36.6 CHG
6.6 Barcin_N

Target: Vonyuchka_Eneolithic
Distance: 5.6166% / 0.05616579
52.2 CHG
47.8 EHG

I guess those would be your dream results xD you would love to be one of them

[Eurafricanid]

Target: Khvalynsk_Eneolithic
Distance: 3.5509% / 0.03550923
84.2 EHG
15.0 CHG
0.8 Barcin_N

Target: Yamnaya_Ukraine
Distance: 6.2369% / 0.06236929
56.8 EHG
36.6 CHG
6.6 Barcin_N

Target: Vonyuchka_Eneolithic
Distance: 5.6166% / 0.05616579
52.2 CHG
47.8 EHG

Looks very similar to the study to me!

[ugochaves]

I guess those would be your dream results xD you would love to be one of them
Agree that the EEF is the substratum of all Eurasian people north of the Sahara. I don't understand whose component it is and what it does in my DNA. It is present among Moroccans, Georgians, Swedes and even among Siberian peoples. So whose is it?

Target: ugo_scaled
Distance: 9.1140% / 0.09113962
34.6 EEF :(
28.8 ANE
24.4 WHG
12.2 CHG

Target: Khvalynsk_Eneolithic
Distance: 9.6866% / 0.09686597
65.8 ANE :thumb001:
21.6 WHG
12.6 CHG

[Eurafricanid]

Agree that the EEF is the substratum of all Eurasian people north of the Sahara. I don't understand whose component it is and what it does in my DNA. It is present among Moroccans, Georgians, Swedes and even among Siberian peoples. So whose is it?

Target: ugo_scaled
Distance: 9.1140% / 0.09113962
34.6 EEF :(
28.8 ANE
24.4 WHG
12.2 CHG

Target: Khvalynsk_Eneolithic
Distance: 9.6866% / 0.09686597
65.8 ANE :thumb001:
21.6 WHG
12.6 CHG

My European part:
Target: Eurafricanid-EU
Distance: 3.9010% / 0.03901015
60.9 EEF
13.6 WHG
13.0 CHG
12.5 ANE


Target: Irish
Distance: 7.9663% / 0.07966296
45.0 EEF
22.2 ANE
19.4 WHG
13.4 CHG


Arabs are not part of the club :)

Target: Saudi
Distance: 6.9131% / 0.06913085
73.8 Israel_Natufian
18.6 CHG
7.6 EEF


Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 6.3826% / 0.06382555
77.6 Israel_Natufian
14.5 CHG
7.9 EEF


Target: BedouinB
Distance: 6.1955% / 0.06195484
75.5 Israel_Natufian
17.4 CHG
7.1 EEF

[Eurafricanid]

Distance to: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.14254027 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
0.22000387 Yemenite_Mahra
0.28689732 Georgia_Kotias.SG


Distance to: Irish
0.21768015 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
0.27235906 Yemenite_Mahra
0.28036552 Georgia_Kotias.SG


Distance to: Swedish
0.22982899 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
0.28029191 Yemenite_Mahra
0.28669973 Georgia_Kotias.SG


Distance to: Russian_Kostroma
0.25882293 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
0.28411178 Georgia_Kotias.SG
0.29241130 Yemenite_Mahra


Distance to: Karelian
0.27545147 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
0.29806672 Georgia_Kotias.SG
0.30579489 Yemenite_Mahra

Distance to: Latvian
0.27429597 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
0.30537170 Georgia_Kotias.SG
0.31494980 Yemenite_Mahra







Distance to: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.08564922 Sardinian
0.17896188 Georgian_Svaneti
0.22000387 Yemenite_Mahra


Distance to: Irish
0.16018707 Sardinian
0.19478902 Georgian_Svaneti
0.27235906 Yemenite_Mahra


Distance to: Swedish
0.17462025 Sardinian
0.20430564 Georgian_Svaneti
0.28029191 Yemenite_Mahra


Distance to: Russian_Kostroma
0.21006348 Georgian_Svaneti
0.21111663 Sardinian
0.29241130 Yemenite_Mahra


Distance to: Karelian
0.22567617 Sardinian
0.22815200 Georgian_Svaneti
0.30579489 Yemenite_Mahra


Distance to: Latvian
0.22550326 Sardinian
0.23678201 Georgian_Svaneti
0.31494980 Yemenite_Mahra

[ugochaves]

Target: Irish
Distance: 7.9663% / 0.07966296
45.0 EEF
22.2 ANE
19.4 WHG
13.4 CHG

What is your calculator?


Target: Irish
Distance: 8.6863% / 0.08686335
42.8 EEF
22.8 ANE
21.6 WHG
12.8 CHG

[Eurafricanid]

What is your calculator?


Target: Irish
Distance: 8.6863% / 0.08686335
42.8 EEF
22.8 ANE
21.6 WHG
12.8 CHG


CHG:Georgia_Kotias.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557
EEF:Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG,0.112685,0.182795,0.010936 ,-0.10013,0.055087,-0.046854,-0.00235,-0.002769,0.046836,0.081642,0.008607,0.010191,-0.015758,0.006193,-0.040173,-0.020021,0.00352,0.000507,0.011816,-0.014132,-0.008735,0.006306,-0.010969,-0.00494,-0.00467
WHG:Italy_North_Villabruna_HG,0.121791,0.11577,0.1 8592,0.185726,0.156029,0.060798,0.017626,0.041537, 0.093467,0.017859,-0.015752,-0.015886,0.020961,-0.005092,0.05361,0.064041,0.007562,0.004181,-0.00905,0.053401,0.099949,0.012489,-0.044123,-0.169904,0.018801
ANE:Russia_AfontovaGora3,0.095611,-0.017264,0.082589,0.230623,-0.089863,0.044901,-0.062043,-0.080997,-0.033746,-0.09695,0.049853,-0.010191,0.02215,-0.073903,0.020358,0.020419,-0.013821,0.003801,-0.004274,-0.002626,-0.037184,0.015209,0.013804,0.008314,-0.005987
Israel_Natufian,0.020488,0.131003,-0.039221,-0.141475,0.027082,-0.0753,-0.017861,-0.025845,0.102671,-0.004556,0.030042,-0.020682,0.069573,-0.000963,0.020222,0.028772,-0.012647,0.008868,-0.021117,0.04252,-0.004243,-0.002597,-0.011955,-0.006386,0.011735
Morocco_Iberomaurusian,-0.189857,0.0812424,-0.0233816,-0.085918,0.026897,-0.0562244,-0.0688578,0.0189222,0.1556838,0.0023324,0.0228318,-0.0328806,0.0757278,-0.0494342,0.0694074,-0.035799,0.007719,-0.0649408,-0.1416618,0.0393438,-0.037908,-0.1254826,0.0707936,-0.0144358,0.0191596
SSA,-0.6281762,0.0630836,0.0215575,0.016814,0.0001452,0 .0109996,-0.027008,0.0329986,-0.0402126,0.0237722,0.0031222,-0.0003943,0.0097156,0.0008194,0.0017046,-0.0015194,0.0019232,0.004873,0.000038,0.00079,0.00 12236,0.0008108,-0.0003441,-0.000379,0.0000362

[ugochaves]

CHG:Georgia_Kotias.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557
EEF:Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG,0.112685,0.182795,0.010936 ,-0.10013,0.055087,-0.046854,-0.00235,-0.002769,0.046836,0.081642,0.008607,0.010191,-0.015758,0.006193,-0.040173,-0.020021,0.00352,0.000507,0.011816,-0.014132,-0.008735,0.006306,-0.010969,-0.00494,-0.00467
WHG:Italy_North_Villabruna_HG,0.121791,0.11577,0.1 8592,0.185726,0.156029,0.060798,0.017626,0.041537, 0.093467,0.017859,-0.015752,-0.015886,0.020961,-0.005092,0.05361,0.064041,0.007562,0.004181,-0.00905,0.053401,0.099949,0.012489,-0.044123,-0.169904,0.018801
ANE:Russia_AfontovaGora3,0.095611,-0.017264,0.082589,0.230623,-0.089863,0.044901,-0.062043,-0.080997,-0.033746,-0.09695,0.049853,-0.010191,0.02215,-0.073903,0.020358,0.020419,-0.013821,0.003801,-0.004274,-0.002626,-0.037184,0.015209,0.013804,0.008314,-0.005987
Israel_Natufian,0.020488,0.131003,-0.039221,-0.141475,0.027082,-0.0753,-0.017861,-0.025845,0.102671,-0.004556,0.030042,-0.020682,0.069573,-0.000963,0.020222,0.028772,-0.012647,0.008868,-0.021117,0.04252,-0.004243,-0.002597,-0.011955,-0.006386,0.011735
Morocco_Iberomaurusian,-0.189857,0.0812424,-0.0233816,-0.085918,0.026897,-0.0562244,-0.0688578,0.0189222,0.1556838,0.0023324,0.0228318,-0.0328806,0.0757278,-0.0494342,0.0694074,-0.035799,0.007719,-0.0649408,-0.1416618,0.0393438,-0.037908,-0.1254826,0.0707936,-0.0144358,0.0191596
SSA,-0.6281762,0.0630836,0.0215575,0.016814,0.0001452,0 .0109996,-0.027008,0.0329986,-0.0402126,0.0237722,0.0031222,-0.0003943,0.0097156,0.0008194,0.0017046,-0.0015194,0.0019232,0.004873,0.000038,0.00079,0.00 12236,0.0008108,-0.0003441,-0.000379,0.0000362
Target: ugo_scaled
Distance: 8.5540% / 0.08554031
37.0 EEF
25.8 ANE
23.0 WHG
14.2 CHG

[Sacrificed Ram]

Arabs are not part of the club :)

Target: Saudi
Distance: 6.9131% / 0.06913085
73.8 Israel_Natufian
18.6 CHG
7.6 EEF


Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 6.3826% / 0.06382555
77.6 Israel_Natufian
14.5 CHG
7.9 EEF


Target: BedouinB
Distance: 6.1955% / 0.06195484
75.5 Israel_Natufian
17.4 CHG
7.1 EEF

What about Ethiopian instead israel_Natufian, they are closer to Basal_Eurasian than Israel_Natufian.

People would think Natufian component is from Levant source, while it is from Africa.

[Katarzyna]

Target: ugo_scaled
Distance: 8.5540% / 0.08554031
37.0 EEF
25.8 ANE
23.0 WHG
14.2 CHG

Wow Ugo, we are so similar :)


Target: Katarzyna_AncestryDNA(real)
Distance: 8.9199% / 0.08919873
39.4 EEF
23.4 ANE
23.4 WHG
13.8 CHG

[Eurafricanid]

What about Ethiopian instead israel_Natufian, they are closer to Basal_Eurasian than Israel_Natufian.

People would think Natufian component is from Levant source, while it is from Africa.

I wasn't comparing basal Eurasian ancestry, but ENF, since CHG and EEF are also related to basal eurasians and are in this calculator.

[ugochaves]

Wow Ugo, we are so similar :)


Target: Katarzyna_AncestryDNA(real)
Distance: 8.9199% / 0.08919873
39.4 EEF
23.4 ANE
23.4 WHG
13.8 CHG
Hmm, strange. I thought your EEF was above 40.:thumb001:

[Eurafricanid]

Target: Serbia_LepenskiVir_EMN.SG
Distance: 3.7390% / 0.03738967
100.0 EEF

Target: Funnelbeaker:Germany_MN_Esperstedt
Distance: 5.2435% / 0.05235176
82.7 EEF
17.3 WHG

Target: Spain_MN.SG
Distance: 4.7836% / 0.04783552
75.5 EEF
24.5 WHG

:cool:

[Katarzyna]

Hmm, strange. I thought your EEF was above 40.:thumb001:

I am quite atypical for a Pole, because I am 1/4 Belarusian and therefore closer to Balts. (Luckily my great grandparents escaped the country, I wouldn’t like to be a Belarusian now)

This is Polish average:

Target: Poland
Distance: 8.2356% / 0.08235554
42.6 EEF
22.0 ANE
21.0 WHG
14.4 CHG

[Sacrificed Ram]

I wasn't comparing basal Eurasian ancestry, but ENF, since CHG and EEF are also related to basal eurasians and are in this calculator.

Natufian, ANF, EEF aren't exatlcy the same...

Natufian is a more close from root diverged Basal_Eurasian, while ANF and CHG would be "siblings" from OoA "parents". Natufian cannot even be considered part of OoA.

Natufiano é um jacaré estacionado no meio do caminho dentro e fora da África.

[Eurafricanid]

Natufian, ANF, EEF aren't exatlcy the same...

Natufian is a more close from root diverged Basal_Eurasian, while ANF and CHG would be "siblings" from OoA "parents". Natufian cannot even be considered part of OoA.

Natufiano é um jacaré estacionado no meio do caminho dentro e fora da África.

Eu já desconfiava que o Natufiano era "da África" msm, e sobre o EEF, é que o povo usa EEF e ANF como se fossem a mesma coisa e eu fui na onda, o EEF só é a mesma coisa que ANF nos Balcãs, fora dos Balcãs ele teve uma mistura com WHG.

But what about the Iberomaurusian? Is it just a mix of Natufian with a minor SSA imput?

[BluRayHiDef]

A YouTuber provides reasonable evidence that Basal Eurasians did not exist: https://youtu.be/B_u8UUuv_P4?si=dOGf9YcEPP13bpyH


If you compare the distances between the populations with the highest amount of "Basal Eurasian" ancestry, you'll see that they are very close to sub-Saharan Africans, which indicates that "Basal Eurasian" ancestry is just SSA ancestry.

For example, Saudis, Bedouins, and Yemenis have the highest amounts of "Basal Eurasian" ancestry and are genetically the closest Eurasians to sub-Saharan Africans. See here (https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/62bb2ed6d6a8af48ed8c972b/2c6fdc6a-b435-409d-9abb-e0cd6b54c671/Genetic+Distances+%5B1%5D.png?content-type=image%2Fpng).

As for why they plot so close to sub-Saharan Africans, it's because they have sub-Saharan African ancestry that they inherited from the Natufians, as explained here (https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/15z0rpz/the_iberomaurusians_and_the_natufians_who_came/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1).

[Voskos]

Target:
Distance: 2.4718% / 0.02471817
48.0 Greece_Minoan_Kephala_Petras.SG
22.4 Russia_Afanasievo.SG
13.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
4.8 Turkey_Epipaleolithic_Pinarbasi(updated)
3.8 Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG
3.0 Georgia_Kotias.SG
2.6 Romania_IronGates_Mesolithic.SG
2.2 Turkey_PPNA

[Token]

Eu já desconfiava que o Natufiano era "da África" msm, e sobre o EEF, é que o povo usa EEF e ANF como se fossem a mesma coisa e eu fui na onda, o EEF só é a mesma coisa que ANF nos Balcãs, fora dos Balcãs ele teve uma mistura com WHG.

But what about the Iberomaurusian? Is it just a mix of Natufian with a minor SSA imput?
Natufian is not from Africa. It has some Iberomaurusian admixture, but otherwise it is just Dzudzuana + basal Eurasian like ANF (with some extra basal Eurasian). Iberomaurusian seems to be a mixture of something like Dzudzuana plus Ancient North African, the latter being a yet unidentified ghost population which seems to have been native to North Africa and non-Eurasian.

[Token]

Funnily, all of the huge "discoveries" by genetic science in the last few years were all well known by physical anthropologists some one hundred years ago. So much for this revolutionary science.

[Eurafricanid]

A YouTuber provides reasonable evidence that Basal Eurasians did not exist: https://youtu.be/B_u8UUuv_P4?si=dOGf9YcEPP13bpyH


If you compare the distances between the populations with the highest amount of "Basal Eurasian" ancestry, you'll see that they are very close to sub-Saharan Africans, which indicates that "Basal Eurasian" ancestry is just SSA ancestry.

For example, Saudis, Bedouins, and Yemenis have the highest amounts of "Basal Eurasian" ancestry and are genetically the closest Eurasians to sub-Saharan Africans. See here (https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/62bb2ed6d6a8af48ed8c972b/2c6fdc6a-b435-409d-9abb-e0cd6b54c671/Genetic+Distances+%5B1%5D.png?content-type=image%2Fpng).

As for why they plot so close to sub-Saharan Africans, it's because they have sub-Saharan African ancestry that they inherited from the Natufians, as explained here (https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/15z0rpz/the_iberomaurusians_and_the_natufians_who_came/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1).

Since the definition of Basal Eurasian is low Neanderthal and SSA also have low Neanderthal, so obviously, if they don't have anything else to pick, they're going to match SSA.

[ugochaves]

Funnily, all of the huge "discoveries" by genetic science in the last few years were all well known by physical anthropologists some one hundred years ago. So much for this revolutionary science.
Absolutely not. Anthropologists have made a lot of mistakes. Population anthropology itself is a pseudoscience, especially Soviet. For example, some anthropologists (Soviet Jews) deduced the origin of Indo-Europeans from Scandinavia. (Lev Klein). I can give a whole list of anthropological nonsense about the Russian Vyatichi tribe, whose descendants turned out to be the most Slavic in Russia, contrary to Soviet anthropologists, who called them Finns.

[Lobster]

About the same, but EEF is probably somewhat more wog. Also I don't agree that EEF made Europeans weak and gay (btw most of Europeans aren't gay). Balkans have like 60% EEF on average and they are among the most homophobic Europeans.

[ugochaves]

About the same, but EEF is probably somewhat more wog. Also I don't agree that EEF made Europeans weak and gay (btw most of Europeans aren't gay). Balkans have like 60% EEF on average and they are among the most homophobic Europeans.
The most homophobic are the descendants of cordware r1a and the most homophobic are the descendants of chg (they have the least eef). EEF are very feminist. There was a matriarchal way of life. Homophobia is the highest degree of human evolution. It is possessed only by very patriarchal peoples.

[Token]

Absolutely not. Anthropologists have made a lot of mistakes. Population anthropology itself is a pseudoscience, especially Soviet. For example, some anthropologists (Soviet Jews) deduced the origin of Indo-Europeans from Scandinavia. (Lev Klein). I can give a whole list of anthropological nonsense about the Russian Vyatichi tribe, whose descendants turned out to be the most Slavic in Russia, contrary to Soviet anthropologists, who called them Finns.

Who cares about your crap Soviet anthropologists? Idiots exist in all fields. I too can cite numerous idiocies believed by geneticists nowadays (the Harvard geneticists who currently believe that IEs began in Armenia come to mind). The consensus among anthropologists one century ago was that the IEs came from the steppes, which turned out to be the correct answer.

[ugochaves]

Who cares about your crap Soviet anthropologists? Idiots exist in all fields. I too can cite numerous idiocies believed by geneticists nowadays (the Harvard geneticists who currently believe that IEs began in Armenia come to mind). The consensus among anthropologists one century ago was that the IEs came from the steppes, which turned out to be the correct answer.
It is necessary to explain how the Hittites, Armenians and Torcharians have one Indo-European language. The most direct analogy is that Europe is not the origin of our languages. But we are still 10-15% descendants of these Indo-European CHGs. The Eurocentrism of these EEF weeds irritates me. They think that everything in Europe came from them. Let them eat their french bitters with science.

[Lobster]

The most homophobic are the descendants of cordware r1a and the most homophobic are the descendants of chg (they have the least eef). EEF are very feminist. There was a matriarchal way of life. Homophobia is the highest degree of human evolution. It is possessed only by very patriarchal peoples.

So, how do you explain high level of homophobia among Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians and rest of Balkan squad. Also we west Asians are quite homophobic and traditional.

[Token]

It is necessary to explain how the Hittites, Armenians and Torcharians have one Indo-European language. The most direct analogy is that Europe is not the origin of our languages. But we are still 10-15% descendants of these Indo-European CHGs. The Eurocentrism of these EEF weeds irritates me. They think that everything in Europe came from them. Let them eat their french bitters with science.

Good one. Keep being the clown of TA as you've been doing since your join date, serious discussion is not for you.

[ugochaves]

So, how do you explain high level of homophobia among Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians and rest of Balkan squad. Also we west Asians are quite homophobic and traditional.Look at their CHG levels. You will understand everything. CHG is a very hard component. In my ancestors, CHG flowed from women - the mistresses of my courageous patriarchal ECH, which had no equal in Europe - dark, powerful warriors, mammoth hunters took feminine, but harsh CHG women as wives. I am very proud of my CHG. At the forum, they asked why Russians look northern, but mentally they are closer to southern Europeans? We are this way because of elevated HCG and decreased EEF junk.

[ugochaves]

Good one. Keep being the clown of TA as you've been doing since your join date, serious discussion is not for you.

Are you an Andean highlander is this not a joke? If this is not a joke, why are you contradicting an Indo-European and pretending to be an intelligent European? You have to go through 4 more stages of the evolution of homosapiens in order to become a reasonable European person. If you see me, you'll shit yourself from your racial inferiority. We can make a theme where we post our selfies. Let people recognize which of us is Homo sapiens?

[ugochaves]

Black-assed, have you completely lost your fear?

[Eurafricanid]

The most homophobic are the descendants of cordware r1a and the most homophobic are the descendants of chg (they have the least eef). EEF are very feminist. There was a matriarchal way of life. Homophobia is the highest degree of human evolution. It is possessed only by very patriarchal peoples.

Interesting... But aren't SSA countries some of the most homophobic countries out there? Aren't Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia also extremely homophobic? Yet, they all have almost nothing to do or not as high CHG, I think this is flawed reasoning.

[ugochaves]

Interesting... But aren't SSA countries some of the most homophobic countries out there? Aren't Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia also extremely homophobic? Yet, they all have almost nothing to do or not as high CHG, I think this is flawed reasoning.
The countries of Saudi Arabia and North Africa are my brothers. I hate Eurocentrism. They fucked up a lot. More than half of Europe is a weed. At the same time, the African Hitler fancied himself a Russian. We have destroyed and will continue to destroy farmer Nazism. Yes, we are a little farmers too, by 30-40%. However, this is our pain, not our pride.

[Katarzyna]

Sorry wrong post

[Manuel]

'woggest'

This forum hasn't changed at all...

[papa diddy pop]

Agree that the EEF is the substratum of all Eurasian people north of the Sahara. I don't understand whose component it is and what it does in my DNA. It is present among Moroccans, Georgians, Swedes and even among Siberian peoples. So whose is it?

Target: ugo_scaled
Distance: 9.1140% / 0.09113962
34.6 EEF :(
28.8 ANE
24.4 WHG
12.2 CHG

Target: Khvalynsk_Eneolithic
Distance: 9.6866% / 0.09686597
65.8 ANE :thumb001:
21.6 WHG
12.6 CHG
https://risibank.fr/cache/medias/0/9/974/97484/full.png
Lol 35% gay

[papa diddy pop]

'woggest'

This forum hasn't changed at all...

Sorry if you're too snob to handle it, sometimes you don't need to take everything seriously

[Mesoman]

Yamnaya, not CHG is arguably the most important admixture in Dagestan, especially where Lezgins, Avars, and Laks are concerned.

Georgians look woggier than the Dagestan and the Sardinian set and have more individuals that pass outside of Europe than the latter.

Why are exotifying CHG and Georgians.. Sardinians don't look whiter than Georgians as a whole in my opinion

[ugochaves]

Why are exotifying CHG and Georgians.. Sardinians don't look whiter than Georgians as a whole in my opinion
Georgians differ from the European CHG. They have a lot of modern Levant. If the EEF is still Europeans, then Georgians can be called a European-Arab mix. They have chg, they have eef, and a lot of levant. We need to decide whether EEF is Europeans or is it space debris?

[Mesoman]

Georgians differ from the European CHG. They have a lot of modern Levant. If the EEF is still Europeans, then Georgians can be called a European-Arab mix. They have chg, they have eef, and a lot of levant. We need to decide whether EEF is Europeans or is it space debris?

Wtf is European CHG. CHG is CHG and comes from Caucasus. Georgians have neither a lot of modern Levantine admix nor ancient Levantine admix. Their Natufian isn't anything extraordinary either. In what sense are Georgians European-Arab mix. I am having a difficult time decoding your post. The wording is strange

[Abti]

Wtf is European CHG. CHG is CHG and comes from Caucasus. Georgians have neither a lot of modern Levantine admix nor ancient Levantine admix. Their Natufian isn't anything extraordinary either. In what sense are Georgians European-Arab mix. I am having a difficult time decoding your post. The wording is strange

The Caucasus is apart of Europe, yes? Then they’d be as European as Russia… ANF is from Anatolia which isn’t in Europe but in West Asia. It’s eye opening that CHG is more European than EEF tbh (lol not really).

[Mesoman]

The Caucasus is apart of Europe, yes? Then they’d be as European as Eastern Europe… EEF is from Anatolia which isn’t in Europe but in West Asia.

I regard Southern Caucasus as the northern most part of Northern West Asia, therefore CHG is ancestral Northern West Asian component in my books. EEF is overwhelmingly Anatolian but has some WHG admix

[Avicenna]

Georgians differ from the European CHG. They have a lot of modern Levant. If the EEF is still Europeans, then Georgians can be called a European-Arab mix. They have chg, they have eef, and a lot of levant. We need to decide whether EEF is Europeans or is it space debris?

Hmm, these so called "high Levant Arab mixed" Georgians


https://youtu.be/abS15Ntbhcw?si=UPMZdokP0ZNryA9O

High EEF European Sardinians ( lol)


https://youtu.be/K3f-Ns08Hxw?si=OAqmBRGCHdSCYxlT

[Abti]

I regard Southern Caucasus as the northern most part of Northern West Asia, therefore CHG is ancestral Northern West Asian component in my books. EEF is overwhelmingly Anatolian but has some WHG admix

Regardless, most of CHG’s ancestral components are not derived from the Middle East like how ANF and EEF are. It’s a close two way mix between Cro-magnon and ANE and little Basal @ around 15-10%.

[ugochaves]

Hmm, these so called "high Levant Arab mixed" Georgians


https://youtu.be/abS15Ntbhcw?si=UPMZdokP0ZNryA9O

High EEF European Sardinians ( lol)


https://youtu.be/K3f-Ns08Hxw?si=OAqmBRGCHdSCYxlT
Georgians are very thoroughbred, unlike Europeans. Europeans can only be proud of ehg. But most Europeans have very little of this component. Even I only have 44% ehg. This is very high for Europe. Probably the peak ehg is about 50% for Latvians. Otherwise, Europeans descended from different Eurasian populations. They collected space debris, discolored it and called it a superior race. Ugh.

[Abti]

@ugochaves @Mesoman

It’s not far fetched to say that CHG is more European than some modern Europeans today…Namely the southern ones with a lot of ANF…

[ugochaves]

@ugochaves @Mesoman

It’s not far fetched to say that CHG is more European than some modern Europeans today…Namely the southern ones with a lot of ANF…I agree 99%. But the Georgians have the Levant. The most European are Latvians, Russians, Mordvins, Ossetians, Chechens, and Dagestanis. The last two are culturally non-Europeans and have fewer Aryans in their dna. So I give the championship to the Mordvins.

[Eurafricanid]

@ugochaves @Mesoman

It’s not far fetched to say that CHG is more European than some modern Europeans today…Namely the southern ones with a lot of ANF…

That's what I call a non argument with no evidense or basis in reality whatsoever.
Tell me here, who looks more european? the Anatolia_N or the CHG?

https://i.imgur.com/Hmlx6oX.png
https://i.imgur.com/3ebw4kD.png


If you saw the other compairison, that wasn't a good example, I suppose, (it was in the speculative section) now the one at the top is the Conservative section.

[Mesoman]

@ugochaves @Mesoman

It’s not far fetched to say that CHG is more European than some modern Europeans today…Namely the southern ones with a lot of ANF…

Nonsense. ANF was mostly Dzudzuana and Dzudzuana came from Caucasus and CHG was also mostly Dzudzuana like therefore this whole ANF was middle eastern and CHG wasn't doesn't make a ton of sense

[catgeorge]

@ugochaves @Mesoman

It’s not far fetched to say that CHG is more European than some modern Europeans today…Namely the southern ones with a lot of ANF…

ANF is mostly R1 - even Kurds are mostly R1.

ANF has a very large Pontic Steppe component with Levantine

Some posters need brain food and in a hurry!

[Abti]

Nonsense. ANF was mostly Dzudzuana and Dzudzuana came from Caucasus and CHG was also mostly Dzudzuana like therefore this whole ANF was middle eastern and CHG wasn't doesn't make a ton of sense

Dzudzuana, accounting for "the most ancestry of both ANF and CHG" is just bad modeling. They have similar proxies that gives it the illusion that they have similar origins, but they do not have the same ancestries and they should not be confused together. I’ll give you an example, there is definetly a shared basal element in ANF and CHG but their forager admixture is of the similar cline of the Villabruna Cluster but CHG is more Gravettian (like WHG; henceforth I & J) whilst ANF is AHG (native to Anatolia). you see this in some ANF remains with AHG lineages of C1a2-V20. And ANF have Levant_N ancestry which puts the nail into their middle eastern rich coffin. CHG has none of that, and never did.

[Frowning Man]

Hmm, these so called "high Levant Arab mixed" Georgians


https://youtu.be/abS15Ntbhcw?si=UPMZdokP0ZNryA9O


Again a video where Georgians from the tourist regions of Southern Georgia (Tbilisi, Batumi and so on). It is strange to talk about the real phenotype of the people and consider the most multinational, mixed and not typical regions. A lot of Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Kurds, Jews and others live in tourist regions.

[Avicenna]

Again a video where Georgians from the tourist regions of Southern Georgia (Tbilisi, Batumi and so on). It is strange to talk about the real phenotype of the people and consider the most multinational, mixed and not typical regions. A lot of Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Kurds, Jews and others live in tourist regions.

My brother lives in Georgia , he is a student , he tells me that there are tons of Arabs , azeris , second generation azeris who call themselves Georgians etc . He really likes the country as well .

[Frowning Man]

My brother lives in Georgia , he is a student , he tells me that there are tons of Arabs , azeris , second generation azeris who call themselves Georgians etc . He really likes the country as well .

Well, I'm saying, it's strange to talk about the real phenotypes of Georgians and consider the regions where many Arabs, Azerbaijanis, Armenians and Georgians live, who are mixed with them. Because they create a false impression of the phenotypes of Georgians, as many see Azerbaijanis, Armenians or half-Georgians and half-Armenians who do not look like real Georgians. I'm talking about Georgians who are ethnic Georgians and live mono-ethnic and are not mixed with anyone. I do not consider Azerbaijanis, Armenians and others who live in Georgia to be Georgians.

[Avicenna]

Well, I'm saying, it's strange to talk about the real phenotypes of Georgians and consider the regions where many Arabs, Azerbaijanis, Armenians and Georgians live, who are mixed with them. Because they create a false impression of the phenotypes of Georgians, as many see Azerbaijanis, Armenians or half-Georgians and half-Armenians who do not look like real Georgians. I'm talking about Georgians who are ethnic Georgians and live mono-ethnic and are not mixed with anyone. I do not consider Azerbaijanis, Armenians and others who live in Georgia to be Georgians.

Yeah I agree

[user_]

The most homophobic are the descendants of cordware r1a and the most homophobic are the descendants of chg (they have the least eef). EEF are very feminist. There was a matriarchal way of life. Homophobia is the highest degree of human evolution. It is possessed only by very patriarchal peoples.

Georgia is going to ruin your theory. Georgians are the most CHG admixed people and least homophobic in Eastern Europe.
https://i.ibb.co/StxBwvk/rainbow-europe-image.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZBJxzTQ)

[Miko]

We saw what happened with Yamnaya who chose the CHG path, they ended up being insignificant in History and far less numerous than their Corded ware Bro who chose the EEF path.


Look 122968

R-BY94089 the fierce legacy of those proud yamnaya warriors !

122969

That's because they chose to be east over the West.