Curious about my Gedmatch results

[McHartman]

Hello there....
I am approximately 50% Welsh, whilst my father (on paper) is around 68.75% English, 25% (primarily) Ulster-Scots (with more distant Irish) and 6.25% French. There does seem to be some minor mystery on my dad's paternal side about some details (but I don't want to go into too much detail).
My Gedmatch K13 results do seem to provide quite a contrast with my G25 results.


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.31
2 Baltic 22.69
3 West_Med 11.85
4 East_Med 6.56
5 West_Asian 5.94
6 Amerindian 0.64
7 South_Asian 0.59
8 Oceanian 0.42

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 2.81
2 Orcadian 4.15
3 North_Dutch 4.62
4 West_Scottish 4.64
5 Southwest_English 4.71
6 Irish 4.77
7 Danish 4.8
8 North_German 6.21
9 Norwegian 6.97
10 South_Dutch 7.09
11 West_German 7.87
12 Swedish 9.41
13 French 12.02
14 Austrian 14.2
15 East_German 15
16 North_Swedish 15.31
17 Hungarian 18.62
18 Spanish_Cataluna 19.01
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 20.29
20 Southwest_French 20.81

...my G25 results

(Modern) Distance to: McHartman

0.00871522 Irish
0.01121580 Scottish
0.01124385 Orcadian
0.01173961 English_West_Midlands
0.01187006 English_East_England
0.01342098 Irish_Ulster
0.01347595 English
0.01347700 Irish_Connacht
0.01371377 Breton_Finistere
0.01394917 Dutch_North_Holland
0.01397816 Irish_Munster
0.01399555 Cornish
0.01402877 Welsh
0.01429025 Manx
0.01443109 Breton_Cotes-d'Armor
0.01460199 English_Southeast
0.01462637 Scottish_Southwest
0.01574888 Dutch_Gelderland
0.01613268 Dutch_Overijssel
0.01638503 Dutch_Central
0.01671969 Frisian_Netherlands
0.01722450 Dutch_North+Central
0.01770340 Dutch_North_Brabant
0.01775985 Dutch_South_Holland
0.01777403 English_Lancashire

(Ancient) Distance to: McHartman

0.01266523 England_Roman_Empire-Late_Antiquity
0.01354641 Ireland_Early-High_Medieval_Kilteasheen
0.01430881 England_MIA-LIA
0.01460237 England_MIA
0.01504600 Netherlands_Early_Medieval_Groningen
0.01506828 England_LBA
0.01528856 England_MIA_East_Yorkshire
0.01541104 Norway_North_Early_Medieval_Viking_Age_(Insular_Ce ltic_Profile)
0.01542194 England_LIA_East_Yorkshire
0.01574066 Scotland_LIA
0.01591124 Scotland_Orkney_Early_Medieval_Viking_Age_(Insular _Celtic_Profile)
0.01592063 Faroes_High_Medieval
0.01593134 Iceland_Early-High_Medieval_Viking_Age_Hofstadir
0.01630713 England_MIA-LIA_East_Yorkshire
0.01634022 England_Early_Medieval_Anglo-Saxon_Wolverton
0.01701143 England_IA
0.01719568 Scotland_LBA
0.01765477 England_LIA
0.01809139 Germany_High_Medieval_Schleswig_Rathausmarkt
0.01858162 England_Late_Antiquity-Early_Medieval_Anglo-Saxon_Oakington
0.01864226 England_EIA
0.01865385 Italy_Medieval_Lombard_Period_Collegno_(Northern_E uro_Profile)
0.01924331 Scotland_Orkney_Early_Medieval_Viking_Age_(Mixed_I nsular_Celtic-Norse_Profile)
0.01924338 England_Early_Medieval_Anglo-Saxon_Hinxton
0.01970017 England_Early_Medieval_Anglo-Saxon_Sedgeford

At face value, my Gedmatch makes me seem rather 'Germanic' shifted whilst my G25 puts me in a very 'Insular-Celtic' camp (considering 'Manx' appears as well). There is a possibility (concerning the 'mystery' on my dad's side, that there is actually more Scottish ancestry than is known but I don't know whether this either helps or hinders that theory). I don't quite understand how I can be genetically closest to Irish people, but that I am also closer (ever so slightly) to English than Welsh people.

[leachim_x]

Main problem is: There are just a very few British and Irish sample groups in the original Gedmatch spreadsheets. So if a population group is missing, which i think for Welsh is the case here...it leads to inferior results. You should try the ols calculators with more population groups...

https://universe-apricity.github.io/Calculators/eurogenes.html

K15 might be a good Calculator because they split north atlantic and north sea. But K13 and K36 has more smples. So you should run all and interpret the results.

[ScandinavianCelt]

Look at the K13 spreadsheet to match up with: I did the first 3 for you: these are who your scores match you closest to on your top three:

North_Atlantic 51.31 Orcadian 51.33
Baltic 22.69 West German 22.44
West_Med 11.85 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.96


FWIW, this is your distance to me: (not far!)


Distance to: SC_K13_raw.averaged_to_G25
0.02075780 McHartman.K13_G25

[McHartman]

Look at the K13 spreadsheet to match up with: I did the first 3 for you: these are who your scores match you closest to on your top three:

North_Atlantic 51.31 Orcadian 51.33
Baltic 22.69 West German 22.44
West_Med 11.85 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.96


FWIW, this is your distance to me: (not far!)


Distance to: SC_K13_raw.averaged_to_G25
0.02075780 McHartman.K13_G25

So the 'south-east England' segment does not mean much?

[Not a Cop]

So the 'south-east England' segment does not mean much?

Yes, differences between Islanders are quite miniscule, so you being of mixed heritage may produce basically anything present on the island. Getting SE English results are absolutely normal.

[Not a Cop]

As for G25 try to select the populations relevant for you and run mixed mode analysis.

[McHartman]

Yes, differences between Islanders are quite miniscule, so you being of mixed heritage may produce basically anything present on the island. Getting SE English results are absolutely normal.

If the differences between the Welsh/Scottish/Irish and the English are miniscule then the differences between the Dutch/Northern Germans and English are also 'miniscule'. Small, rather than 'miniscule' is a better way to put it. The English derive roughly 40% of their genomic structure from the Anglo-Saxon migrations, and whilst the remaining 60% is 'pre-Germanic', only half of that component is almost 'identical' to the Welsh. The English also derive the other half from more recent 'Celtic' migrations from across the Channel (that looking into it, probably took place around the 1st Century and might have been facilitated by the Roman Empire). This pre-Germanic, 'Continental' component never reached Wales or Scotland on account of their (relative) geographic isolation. Nonetheless, I am aware that in a wider European context, Germanic & 'Insular Celtic' populations are very close. However, on a shallower note, a great deal of Welsh people struggle to pass as English, and that's isolating the fact that, on average, Welsh people have rather broad, robust faces, in the same way that English people, on average, have rather narrow, gracile faces. The genetic differences are there, however small, not small enough to yield some phenotypical differences.

[ScandinavianCelt]

So the 'south-east England' segment does not mean much?

The spreadsheet matches would indicate you are primarily (74%) a mix of Orcadian and West German, in those proportions your results show, with some minor others filtering in to round you out. Rather similar to mine, actually.

What do you get on a two-way using the Oracle site and your official G25 as Target vs Modern Pop Ave Scaled?

[Not a Cop]

If the differences between the Welsh/Scottish/Irish and the English are miniscule then the differences between the Dutch/Northern Germans and English are also 'miniscule'. Small, rather than 'miniscule' is a better way to put it. The English derive roughly 40% of their genomic structure from the Anglo-Saxon migrations, and whilst the remaining 60% is 'pre-Germanic', only half of that component is almost 'identical' to the Welsh. The English also derive the other half from more recent 'Celtic' migrations from across the Channel (that looking into it, probably took place around the 1st Century and might have been facilitated by the Roman Empire). This pre-Germanic, 'Continental' component never reached Wales or Scotland on account of their (relative) geographic isolation. Nonetheless, I am aware that in a wider European context, Germanic & 'Insular Celtic' populations are very close. However, on a shallower note, a great deal of Welsh people struggle to pass as English, and that's isolating the fact that, on average, Welsh people have rather broad, robust faces, in the same way that English people, on average, have rather narrow, gracile faces. The genetic differences are there, however small, not small enough to yield some phenotypical differences.

I was talking in relation to K13 and G25, there is a possibility to create more fine-tuned calc for Britain, but i don't think that i have ever seen one.

[McHartman]

The spreadsheet matches would indicate you are primarily (74%) a mix of Orcadian and West German, in those proportions your results show, with some minor others filtering in to round you out. Rather similar to mine, actually.

What do you get on a two-way using the Oracle site and your official G25 as Target vs Modern Pop Ave Scaled?

By this metric, does this mean there is some geneology I am unaware of in my family tree. Orcadian/West German seems rather eastern shifted for someone who is mostly Brythonic.

[ScandinavianCelt]

By this metric, does this mean there is some geneology I am unaware of in my family tree. Orcadian/West German seems rather eastern shifted for someone who is mostly Brythonic.

Can you show me your official distances to both the averages for Arcadian and for Hamburg? You could also include the other German but I imagine Hamburg would be the closest

[McHartman]

Can you show me your official distances to both the averages for Arcadian and for Hamburg? You could also include the other German but I imagine Hamburg would be the closest

In fairness, I think what you meant was that, in a Gedmatch context, I am mostly Orcadian with West German?

[ScandinavianCelt]

I'm just wondering what your distances are with official modern pop averages scaled just those two samples Orcadian and Hamburg

These are mine:

Distance to: SC_PreUpdate_Official_Ave_Scaled
0.02668699 Orcadian
0.02717013 German_Hamburg

Distance to: SC_PreUpdate_Official_23andMe_Scaled
0.03016750 German_Hamburg
0.03255051 Orcadian

Distance to: SC_PreUpdate_Official_Ancestry_Scaled
0.02185185 Orcadian
0.02605768 German_Hamburg

[McHartman]

Can you show me your official distances to both the averages for Arcadian and for Hamburg? You could also include the other German but I imagine Hamburg would be the closest

So.... these are my K15 Oracle results

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 36.62
2 Atlantic 28.86
3 Baltic 8.77
4 West_Med 8.43
5 Eastern_Euro 8.3
6 West_Asian 5
7 East_Med 3.5
8 Amerindian 0.41
9 South_Asian 0.11

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 2.41
2 Southwest_English 3.53
3 West_Scottish 3.74
4 Irish 3.84
5 Orcadian 4.03
6 North_Dutch 4.5
7 Danish 4.52
8 North_German 5.93
9 South_Dutch 6.93
10 West_German 7.52
11 Norwegian 8.14
12 West_Norwegian 8.34
13 Swedish 9.61
14 French 10.76
15 North_Swedish 12.54
16 East_German 14.09
17 Southwest_Finnish 17.44
18 Austrian 17.62
19 Spanish_Cataluna 18.29
20 Hungarian 18.33

[JerryS.]

Gedmatch models are a bit outdated. G25 seems to offer a little bit better (accurate) result.