Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? [Archive] - Page 9 - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 03:20 PM

I went on the route Skopje-Kicevo these days...I suddenly wanted to take a few days brake to Ohrid and I also visited Bitola but never mind that.

I havent passed on that route for years now,and I was traveling on the third day of Ramazan Bajram (if Im not wrong thats how it is called).

So these are my remarks:

We were going at nigh time due to the heat during the day.
The traffic was constant,I mean it was so big that there were waiting lines being formed in the middle of the regional road!
All of the traffic was due to Albanians going up and down,visiting relatives,Albanian diaspora returning...
My cousin was in the car with me and he said,and I quote: ''This is why Albanians will eat Macedonians up''.
Albanians hold on to their traditions strongly,even today...I mean the atmosphere that exists among Albanians during a holiday (national or religious) cant be even compared to the stuff going on on the Macedonian side.
Its like comparing Las Vegas and Prilep.

Another thing,the houses!
It is 5 storey houses,brand new appearing in all the Albanian populated places.
I mean 90% of the houses in a certain village are brand new!
It is just unbelievable,at least when you compare them to Macedonian villages,towns.
I mean miles upon miles of elite houses,and more and more on the starting point of being built.
It looks as if there is a construction boom going on there.
You also can see 3,4 somewhere even 5 houses all looking the same,built next to eachother (Albanians have a thing,when there are a few brothers in a family,they sometimes tend to build their houses like that).
And all of the houses you see,they have something typical Albanian in them...you just know it is an Albanian house.

Mosques,for example...you see villages with about 20 houses and with two huge mosques,each with two minarets.New imposing mosques popping up everywhere.

Economy,Albanian economic influence is becoming more and more powerful there.
There is one streatch on the road,of about 30 km,and alongside the road there are various newly constructed or U/C plants,all of them with signs with Albanian names and inscription.
I think there arent so many plants in the rest of the country as there are on that streatch of 30 km.

Flags,besides the many Albanian flags erected on balconies of houses or buildings,in front of the plants...we passed through few giant Albanian flags on huge masts,as well a bunch of smaller flags on a cemetery fence next to the road,I think there was a UCK soldier buried there or something...

The situation is probably the same on the entire line starting from Kumanovo-Lipkovo till Struga.
It only remains for Albanians to put up a border and its finished.

Petros Houhoulis

08-18-2013, 03:35 PM

I went on the route Skopje-Kicevo these days...I suddenly wanted to take a few days brake to Ohrid and I also visited Bitola but never mind that.

I havent passed on that route for years now,and I was traveling on the third day of Ramazan Bajram (if Im not wrong thats how it is called).

So these are my remarks:

We were going at nigh time due to the heat during the day.
The traffic was constant,I mean it was so big that there were waiting lines being formed in the middle of the regional road!
All of the traffic was due to Albanians going up and down,visiting relatives,Albanian diaspora returning...
My cousin was in the car with me and he said,and I quote: ''This is why Albanians will eat Macedonians up''.
Albanians hold on to their traditions strongly,even today...I mean the atmosphere that exists among Albanians during a holiday (national or religious) cant be even compared to the stuff going on on the Macedonian side.
Its like comparing Las Vegas and Prilep.

Another thing,the hoses!
It is 5 storey houses,brand new appearing in all the Albanian populated places.
I mean 90% of the houses in a certain village are brand new!
It is just unbelievable,at least when you compare them to Macedonian villages,towns.
I mean miles upon miles of elite houses,and more and more on the starting point of being built.
It looks as if there is a construction boom going on there.
You also can see 3,4 somewhere even 5 houses all looking the same,built next to eachother (Albanians have a thing,when there are a few brothers in a family,they sometimes tend to build their houses like that).
And all of the houses you see,they have something typical Albanian in them...you just know it is an Albanian house.

Mosques,for example...you see villages with about 20 houses and with two huge mosques,with two minarets.
New imposing mosques popping up everywhere.

Economy,Albanian economic influence is becoming more and more powerful there.
There is one streatch on the road,of about 30 km,and alongside the road there are various newly constructed or U/C plants,all of them with signs with Albanian names and inscription.
I think there arent so many plants in the rest of the country as there are on that streatch of 30 km.

Flags,besides the many Albanian flags erected on balconies of houses or buildings,in front of the plants...we passed through few giant Albanian flags on huge masts,as well a bunch of smaller flags on a cemetery fence next to the road,I think there was a UCK soldier buried there or something...

The situation is probably the same on the entire line starting from Kumanovo-Lipkovo till Struga.
It only remains for Albanians to put up a border and its finished.

Why put a border? It shall only restrict them. The others should put borders, fences and barricades...

The Illyrian Warrior

08-18-2013, 05:10 PM

Albanians are becoming numerous in central macedonia as well, like in Chashka, Dollnen, Krusheva.

Grizzly

08-18-2013, 05:39 PM

I went on the route Skopje-Kicevo these days...I suddenly wanted to take a few days brake to Ohrid and I also visited Bitola but never mind that.

I havent passed on that route for years now,and I was traveling on the third day of Ramazan Bajram (if Im not wrong thats how it is called).

So these are my remarks:

We were going at nigh time due to the heat during the day.
The traffic was constant,I mean it was so big that there were waiting lines being formed in the middle of the regional road!
All of the traffic was due to Albanians going up and down,visiting relatives,Albanian diaspora returning...
My cousin was in the car with me and he said,and I quote: ''This is why Albanians will eat Macedonians up''.
Albanians hold on to their traditions strongly,even today...I mean the atmosphere that exists among Albanians during a holiday (national or religious) cant be even compared to the stuff going on on the Macedonian side.
Its like comparing Las Vegas and Prilep.

Another thing,the hoses!
It is 5 storey houses,brand new appearing in all the Albanian populated places.
I mean 90% of the houses in a certain village are brand new!
It is just unbelievable,at least when you compare them to Macedonian villages,towns.
I mean miles upon miles of elite houses,and more and more on the starting point of being built.
It looks as if there is a construction boom going on there.
You also can see 3,4 somewhere even 5 houses all looking the same,built next to eachother (Albanians have a thing,when there are a few brothers in a family,they sometimes tend to build their houses like that).
And all of the houses you see,they have something typical Albanian in them...you just know it is an Albanian house.

Mosques,for example...you see villages with about 20 houses and with two huge mosques,each with two minarets.New imposing mosques popping up everywhere.

Economy,Albanian economic influence is becoming more and more powerful there.
There is one streatch on the road,of about 30 km,and alongside the road there are various newly constructed or U/C plants,all of them with signs with Albanian names and inscription.
I think there arent so many plants in the rest of the country as there are on that streatch of 30 km.

Flags,besides the many Albanian flags erected on balconies of houses or buildings,in front of the plants...we passed through few giant Albanian flags on huge masts,as well a bunch of smaller flags on a cemetery fence next to the road,I think there was a UCK soldier buried there or something...

The situation is probably the same on the entire line starting from Kumanovo-Lipkovo till Struga.
It only remains for Albanians to put up a border and its finished.

I've been saying that for years.

Everytime I drive down to struga I feel pitty for the Macedonian villages which look straight out of the neolithic ages.

Also, I might add for my father's village the village itself paid for the reconstruction of it's roads because the Gov't wasn't giving nada. Each family chipped in around 300euros while in the depopulated Macedonian villages(where sheep are more numerous than humans) the government will gladly build them meaningless roads.

As for the houses are you talking about this(Near the city of Kicevo)?
https://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/8172936.jpg

https://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/8172926.jpg

Pretty much these houses are everywhere for Albanians.

Bugurash have you ever witnessed an Albanian wedding in the FYROM? I suggest you do and you'd be even more astonished..

The Illyrian Warrior

08-18-2013, 06:02 PM

Albanian live births comparison 2011 - 2012 by municipalities

Shkupi/Skopje Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Map_of_Skopje.svg

Births 2011
Total 6.515 - 100%
Albanians 2.194 - 33.67%

Births 2012
Total 6.584 - 100%
Albanians 2.256 - 34.26%

+0.59% Increase

Kumanova/o Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Map_of_Kumanovo_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 1.246 - 100%
Albanians 433 - 34.75%

Births 2012
Total 1.307 - 100%
Albanians 462 - 35.34%

+0.59% Increase

Struga Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Map_of_Struga_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 697 - 100%
Albanians 301 - 43.01%

Births 2012
Total 723 - 100%
Albanians 303 - 41.90%

-1.11% Decrease

Uskana/Kicevo Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Map_of_Ki%C4%8Devo_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 468 - 100%
Albanians 180 - 38.46%

Births 2012
Total 458 - 100%
Albanians 189 - 41.26%

+2.80% Increase

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 06:04 PM

Scenes from Albanian villages in Struga and Tetovo region.

In Kicevo region is about x2 this

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag43/BulgarMacedonia/5140526_zps568d2dfb.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/312402_300364083426418_980604494_n.jpg

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag43/BulgarMacedonia/79403862_zpsc42f955d.jpg

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag43/BulgarMacedonia/36350446_zps59b3c3ec.jpg

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag43/BulgarMacedonia/92294983_zps34807505.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/293712_656679631025501_1447173121_n.jpg

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/BulgarianMacedonia/4_zpscda9c6a7.png

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/168199_656677704359027_338734564_n.jpg

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 06:05 PM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/48165_300363800093113_1086670359_n.jpg

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/BulgarianMacedonia/41578865_zpsab3b93e6.jpg

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/BulgarianMacedonia/60604585_zpsbb07f191.jpg

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/BulgarianMacedonia/scan0035_zps64bbf7da.jpg

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/BulgarianMacedonia/20497153_zpsf8285fff.jpg

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/BulgarianMacedonia/81511660_zpse4f96c78.jpg

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/BulgarianMacedonia/5_zpsb4a91f1f.png

Skerdilaid

08-18-2013, 06:07 PM

LOL every Albanian has to have an apartment building:)

Grizzly

08-18-2013, 06:12 PM

LOL every Albanian has to have an apartment building:)

lol, now that you mention that one of my parent's cousin literally built himself an apartment building(looks exactly like one) as a house

Bugurash has seen it driving down from Shkup lol.

Pjeter Pan

08-18-2013, 06:13 PM

My uncles in albania are having their new houses build and the houses are huge. It's crazy.

Skerdilaid

08-18-2013, 06:19 PM

lol, now that you mention that one of my parent's cousin literally built himself an apartment building(looks exactly like one) as a house

Bugurash has seen it driving down from Shkup lol.

When I visit down there it's like going into a different world! No worries everybody is happy and very energetic, they all have huge houses and drive a Benz or some other expensive brand:D

When I get back in the west I get depressed! You don't experience the same energy that people posses down there.:)

iNird

08-18-2013, 06:23 PM

Yes yes big houses too bad they are empty 10 out of the 12 months. :p

Pjeter Pan

08-18-2013, 06:33 PM

Yes yes big houses too bad they are empty 10 out of the 12 months. :p

Lmao thats the truth

Grizzly

08-18-2013, 06:34 PM

When I visit down there it's like going into a different world! No worries everybody is happy and very energetic, they all have huge houses and drive a Benz or some other expensive brand:D

When I get back in the west I get depressed! You don't experience the same energy that people posses down there.:)

lol, I know exactly what you mean. Everyone is happy, relaxed, no one is in a rush, drink at caffees all day. People aren't expected to work or even go to school and if you somehow get a job people are like wow.

The mentality of the people there compared to people in the West is completely different. All people here think about is work and their careers.

And yea everyone is trying to impress everyone there. It gets a bit redundant when your cousin who is a truck driver in switzerland comes home with a brand new Benz(you ain't impressing anyone nigga!)

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 06:35 PM

Typical houses in Blatec,Macedonian village in Vinica municipality.
Half of the population now is in Italy.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/1920x1280/27352622.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/1920x1280/17775984.jpg

Grizzly

08-18-2013, 06:38 PM

Tpyical Macedonian village
https://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/19819182.jpg

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 06:42 PM

My grandfathers village,90% of the people live in Skopje,Bitola,Australia,USA,Canada,Germany...

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/1920x1280/41429686.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/73823121.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/1920x1280/73823425.jpg

Pjeter Pan

08-18-2013, 06:49 PM

My village :)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phV2_DvMeR8

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 06:59 PM

There is a rather big difference between Albanians in Macedonia,Kosovo,Preshevo Valley on one side and the Albanians in Albania on the other...

Skerdilaid

08-18-2013, 07:04 PM

There is a rather big difference between Albanians in Macedonia,Kosovo,Preshevo Valley on one side and the Albanians in Albania on the other...

In what aspects you mean Bugarash?

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 07:10 PM

In what aspects you mean Bugarash?

In terms of almost everything.
Religion,or the perception they have about their religion.
In terms of expressing national identity.
They even build their houses differentlly,Albanians in Albania usually copy the architecture they see in Italy and Greece,while the others copy the architecture from the Germanic states...

They are one nation but in the same time they arent.
At least thats the picture I have been getting,I guess being devided for so long has left its marks...

Skerdilaid

08-18-2013, 07:21 PM

In terms of almost everything.
Religion,or how they accept their religion.
In terms of expressing national identity.
They even build their houses differentlly,Albanians in Albania usually copy the architecture they see in Italy and Greece,while the others copy the architecture from the Germanic states...

They are one nation but in the same time they arent.
At least thats the picture I have been getting,I guess being devided for so long has left its marks...

There is a bit of cultural difference because of Iron Curtain that Albania had, and of course the 100 or so years of division. Regarding religion, it is more regional then say dividing in Albanians from Ex Yugo and Albanians from Albanian. For example more than half of Kosova can litterly be classified as atheists, same goes for some regions of Macedonia. In other hand you have the religious folks in South Albania and in North, so it's not really black and white.

Architecture depends where the emigrants reside, I have noticed most of the Albo's from Macedonia reside in Germanic countries, so I guess that does reflect on they way they build houses. In Kosova for example now it's very in to build houses American style, and Prishtina has quite few subdivision that are a true copies of the suburbs of America.

We are definitely one Nation, but the regional pride does exist.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-18-2013, 07:45 PM

Yes yes big houses too bad they are empty 10 out of the 12 months. :p

So true, isn't something to feel proud of IMO. :ohwell:

The Illyrian Warrior

08-18-2013, 08:11 PM

Albanian live births comparison 2011 - 2012 by municipalities

Manastir/Bitola Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Map_of_Bitola_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 880 - 100%
Albanian 64 - 7.27%

Births 2012
Total 881 - 100%
Albanian 67 - 7.60%

+0.33% Increase

Krusheva Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Map_of_Kru%C5%A1evo_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 97 - 100%
Albanian 42 - 43.29%

Births 2012
Total 108 - 100%
Albanian 55 - 50.92%

+7.63% Increase

Petrovec Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Map_of_Petrovec_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 141 - 100%
Albanian 53 - 37.58%

Births 2012
Total 152 - 100%
Albanian 46 - 30.26%

-7.32% Decrease

Chashka Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Map_of_%C4%8Ca%C5%A1ka_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 151 - 100%
Albanian 119 - 78.80%

Births 2012
Total 175 - 100%
Albanian 135 - 77.14%

-1.66% Decrease

Veles Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Map_of_Veles_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 570 - 100%
Albanian 68 - 11.92%

Births 2012
Total 637 - 100%
Albanian 88 - 13.81%

+1.89% Increase

Dolneni Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Map_of_Dolneni_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 242 - 100%
Albanian 96 - 39.66%

Births 2012
Total 251 - 100%
Albanian 115 - 45.81%

+6.15% Increase

The Illyrian Warrior

08-18-2013, 08:43 PM

Albanian live births comparison 2011 - 2012 by municipalities

Zelenikovo Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Map_of_Zelenikovo_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 74 - 100%
Albanian 48 - 64.86%

Births 2012
Total 74 - 100%
Albanian 37 - 50.00%

-14.86 Decrease

Demir Hisar Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Map_of_Demir_Hisar_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 78 - 100%
Albanian 5 - 6.41%

Births 2012
Total 60 - 100%
Albanian 7 - 11.66%

+5.25% Increase

Prespa/Resen Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Map_of_Resen_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 141 - 100%
Albanian 18 - 12.76%

Births 2012
Total 144 - 100%
Albanian 22 - 15.27%

+2.51% Increase

Gostivar Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Map_of_Gostivar_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 826 - 100%
Albanian 537 - 65.01%

Births 2012
Total 743 - 100%
Albanian 465 - 62.58%

-2.43% Decrease

Mavrovo&Rostusa Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Map_of_Mavrovo_i_Rostu%C5%A1a_Municipality.svg

Births 2011
Total 82 - 100%
Albanian 20 - 24.39%

Births 2012
Total 77 - 100%
Albanian 24 - 31.16%

+6.77% Increase

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 10:03 PM

City of Skopje

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Map_of_Skopje.svg

According to the 2002 census:

Macedonians: 338,358 = 66.75%
Albanians: 103,891 = 20.49%

Births-Deaths 2008-2012

Macedonians

3328-3503 = 52,7% of the total number of births
3417-3495 = 52,3%
3451-3558 = 51,4%
3292-3545 = 50,5%
3392-3669 = 51,5%

-890

Albanians

1978-619 = 31,3%
2034-656 = 31,1%
2250-636 = 33,5%
2194-637 = 33,6%
2256-722 = 34,2%

+7442

The Illyrian Warrior

08-18-2013, 10:12 PM

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 10:58 PM

I wonder Bugarash why is that in Albanian dominated municipalities i see a declining trend of Albanian births in other hand in much less significant Albo population municipalities a growing one?!!!:confused:

The main reason is emigration due to the absence of an economic future.
Albanians now in those parts are feeling the blow from the economic apartheid sponsored on government level till 2001 and at some extent resuming even to this day.
The current falls are the fruit from that period.

While in regions where Albanians live among a Macedonian majority,things in the economic aspect look brighter,which results in low Albanian deflux.
In places like Central Macedonia...Albanians there are so strong mainly due to isolation,same thing as with the Turks...Turks in Eastern Macedonia are very isolated and rural population,thats why they are booming,while in Western Macedonia,it is the opposite,and the result is the crackdown.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-18-2013, 11:11 PM

The main reason is emigration due to the absence of an economic future.
Albanians now in those parts are feeling the blow from the economic apartheid sponsored on government level till 2001 and at some extent resuming even to this day.
The current falls are the fruit from that period.

While in regions where Albanians live among a Macedonian majority,things in the economic aspect look brighter,which results in low Albanian deflux.
In places like Central Macedonia...Albanians there are so strong mainly due to isolation,same thing as with the Turks...Turks in Eastern Macedonia are very isolated and rural population,thats why they are booming,while in Western Macedonia,it is the opposite,and the result is the crackdown.

Your right!!! Gruevski is using same methods as earlier governments on Albanians, for example in Gostivar just in one year period saw 72 less Albo births, its like total of zelenikovo births.:(

Just Skopje, Kumanovo and Kicevo, is somewhat better than one year before for Albos (I mean in large municipalities context).

Bugarash 1893

08-18-2013, 11:46 PM

Your right!!! Gruevski is using same methods as earlier governments on Albanians, for example in Gostivar just in one year period saw 72 less Albo births, its like total of zelenikovo births.:(

Just Skopje, Kumanovo and Kicevo, is somewhat better than one year before for Albos (I mean in large municipalities context).

Gostivar is secured for Albanians.
No struggle there,no matter the drop,Gostivar is in Albanian hands.

Look at it this way...
Even if all Albanians who went abroad came back,Albanians wouldnt be able to take over all of Macedonia.
I mean look at how little number of Serbs in Kosovo,are able to control pretty large chuncks of territory.
Same thing here,Albanians would never be able to have control over Strumica,Kavadarci,Shtip...

Albanians need to focus on municipalities like Cashka,Dolneni,Skopje,Kumanovo.
Kicevo is still unstable,so focus on Kicevo as well.
Tetovo,Gostivar,Debar,Struga are secured,no matter what happens.

So if you look at it like that,those decreases in Western Macedonia shouldnt worry you alot.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-19-2013, 09:15 AM

Gostivar is secured for Albanians.
No struggle there,no matter the drop,Gostivar is in Albanian hands.

Look at it this way...
Even if all Albanians who went abroad came back,Albanians wouldnt be able to take over all of Macedonia.
I mean look at how little number of Serbs in Kosovo,are able to control pretty large chuncks of territory.
Same thing here,Albanians would never be able to have control over Strumica,Kavadarci,Shtip...

Albanians need to focus on municipalities like Cashka,Dolneni,Skopje,Kumanovo.
Kicevo is still unstable,so focus on Kicevo as well.
Tetovo,Gostivar,Debar,Struga are secured,no matter what happens.

So if you look at it like that,those decreases in Western Macedonia shouldnt worry you alot.

Strumica, kavadarci and eastern Macedonia isn't in our mission nor our interest, our target is Albanian domination in western part where historically we were the majority such as Skopje, Kumanovo, Kicevo, Struga even Ohrid and Manastir which sadly nowadays is just a small Albanian community compared 50 years ago.

Not forget Albanians in future can become Prime-minister in Macedonia (ofc if we know to play cards well), so don't see a problem to take over the country in some extent. :)

i__w

08-19-2013, 02:09 PM

Strumica, kavadarci and eastern Macedonia isn't in our mission nor our interest, our target is Albanian domination in western part where historically we were the majority such as Skopje, Kumanovo, Kicevo, Struga even Ohrid and Manastir which sadly nowadays is just a small Albanian community compared 50 years ago.
....

If present population trends follow for another 15-20years, all towns you mentioned above situated in western Macedonia will be under Albanian controlled area, with exception of Manastir but including Oher. I don't see that Oher will ever be an Albanian majority town, but demographic it is not that important in this case because the town it situated so deep in Albanian side and so close to R. of Albania border that can't survive as it is today. If Oher goes to the Macedonian side in case of country division it will be the end of it.

i__w

08-19-2013, 02:12 PM

The Illyrian Warrior

08-19-2013, 02:21 PM

If present population trends follow for another 15-20years, all towns you mentioned above situated in western Macedonia will be under Albanian controlled area, with exception of Manastir but including Oher. I don't see that Oher will ever be an Albanian majority town, but demographic it is not that important in this case because the town it situated so deep in Albanian side and so close to R. of Albania border that can't survive as it is today. If Oher goes to the Macedonian side in case of country division it will be the end of it.

Manastir is important for Albanians, its hard for us to let that city slip us away, same is with Oher....These two cities were majority Albanian in 50' now they are made up with small Albanian community as many migrated to Turkey, and later on in Australia and USA. :(

i__w

08-19-2013, 02:30 PM

Manastir is important for Albanians, its hard for us to let that city slip us away, same is with Oher....These two cities were majority Albanian in 50' now they are made up with small Albanian community as many migrated to Turkey, and later on in Australia and USA. :(

I guess that Manastir is lost for Albanians. It is hard to turn that trend. Muslim population moved and orthodox Albanian population like in Oher and Krusheva totally assimilated.

Also geographicaly is indipendent from Albanian - Macedonia not like Oher/Ohrid

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 02:34 PM

Manastir is important for Albanians, its hard for us to let that city slip us away, same is with Oher....These two cities were majority Albanian in 50' now they are made up with small Albanian community as many migrated to Turkey, and later on in Australia and USA. :(

Albanians have nothing to do with Ohrid,no Albanian traces there,no nothing.
Albanians never even formed a strong share of the population.
So how can it be important?

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 02:37 PM

it seems a very nice place. can you tell us the name of that village? :)

Brezovo,Demir Hisar municipality.
Population according to the 2002 census: 62 people.

http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE_(%D0%9E %D0%B1%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%BC% D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%A5%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%80)

i__w

08-19-2013, 02:49 PM

Brezovo,Demir Hisar municipality.
Popultion according to the 2002 census: 62 people.

http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE_(%D0%9E %D0%B1%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%BC% D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%A5%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%80)

very nice I checked in google earth and is aorund 10km areal distance from Krushevo :)

Census year.....................Total.....Macedonians

Brezovo (-) ...............1948...........700...........
Brezovo (Dolentsi)......1953...........639......638
Brezovo (Demir Hisar) 1961...........510......495
Brezovo (Demir Hisar) 1971...........310......310
Brezovo (Demir Hisar) 1981...........197......197
Brezovo (Demir Hisar) 1991.............75........74
Brezovo (Demir Hisar) 1994.............69........69
Brezovo (Sopotnitsa) ..2002.............62........62

The Illyrian Warrior

08-19-2013, 02:59 PM

Albanians have nothing to do with Ohrid,no Albanian traces there,no nothing.
Albanians never even formed a strong share of the population.
So how can it be important?

Maybe not historic importance as Manastir but still a beautiful city in Albanian border in crossroad between Struga and Manastir. :)

The Illyrian Warrior

08-19-2013, 03:01 PM

very nice I checked in google earth and is aorund 10km areal distance from Krushevo :)

A dying village like majority of mako villages. :rolleyes:

i__w

08-19-2013, 03:04 PM

A dying village like majority of mako villages. :rolleyes:

you dont have to be mean :D that's still a nice village and nice area. There is a small Albanian presence in that area though :D

The Illyrian Warrior

08-19-2013, 03:14 PM

you dont have to be mean :D that's still a nice village and nice area. There is a small Albanian presence in that area though :D

I'm not trying to be mean, i'm just saying the reality. :D

PS. As for Albanians, around Demir Hisar villages there is small Albanian presence.

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 03:32 PM

Maybe not historic importance as Manastir but still a beautiful city in Albanian border in crossroad between Struga and Manastir. :)

Everything you see there is Bulgarian.
The fortress,the churches,the graves,the inscriptions,the historical figures from the last 1400 years!
Ohrid is of zero historic importance to the Albanians.
If not,prove me wrong!

Even this Maple tree it is said that was planted by Saint Clement

http://volino.mk/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/579981_390331771002127_397806561_n.jpg

The.Mask

08-19-2013, 03:37 PM

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 03:40 PM

Everything has been Bulgarized and then FYROMized after the Albanian presence...

What Albanian presence?
When?
Who?
For how long?
Give me dates!
Give me names!
Give me facts!

Trying to denie the Bulgarism of Ohrid is like trying to denie the meaning of the term ''obvious''!
Its madness.

The.Mask

08-19-2013, 04:13 PM

http://www.alb-observer.com/thumb/7115/thumb.jpg

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 04:53 PM

http://www.alb-observer.com/thumb/7115/thumb.jpg

And your point is?

Grizzly

08-19-2013, 05:59 PM

Albanians really don't have a claim to Ohrid compared to the Bulgarians. It was the capital of the Bulgar empire in the 10th century or so.

Monastir is a bit different though but at this point is pretty much lost for Albanians

The Illyrian Warrior

08-19-2013, 06:03 PM

What Albanian presence?
When?
Who?
For how long?
Give me dates!
Give me names!
Give me facts!

Trying to denie the Bulgarism of Ohrid is like trying to denie the meaning of the term ''obvious''!
Its madness.

You can't hide Albanian presence through history there, in the end it was inside pre-1912 Albanian borders.:thumb001:

The.Mask

08-19-2013, 06:16 PM

And your point is?

Nothing, just to prove some Albanian presence since long time, in those area...

But today only few albanians remains in Ohrid/Manastir so i think today only important for us is mainly Pollog region and other cities around.

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 06:18 PM

You can't hide Albanian presence through history there, in the end it was inside pre-1912 Albanian borders.:thumb001:

Show me the Albanian presence,I can show you tons of traces of Bulgarism!

There was no Albania pre 1912...

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 06:20 PM

Nothing, just to prove some Albanian presence since long time, in those area...

But today only few albanians remains in Ohrid/Manastir so i think today only important for us is mainly Pollog region and other cities around.

Where does that text mention Albanian presence?

Show me something like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuil_of_Bulgaria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuil's_Fortress,_Ohrid

Tsar Samuils fortress

http://test.makedonskibiser.com.mk/images/stories/4.Ohridsko-prespanski-region/Istoriski-znamenitosti/samuilova-tvrdina1.jpg

i__w

08-19-2013, 06:51 PM

Show me the Albanian presence,I can show you tons of traces of Bulgarism!

There was no Albania pre 1912...

Vasil Kanchov did a sort of census over the region in late '800 and publishing it in '900. Kanchov was bulgarian and numbers are heavily supporting 'bulgarian' point of view over macedonia. But even Kanchov is not denying Albanian presence in the town itself.

Oher according to Kanchov '900

Total 14860
Bulgarian orthodox 8000 (that's totally crazy like number because in all estimations majority of population it was muslim)
Turks 5000 (this group actually was the biggest in the town, included also Albanians. At that time to declare yourself as a "Turk" it's like today to say "american" or "canadian" when the background it's another)
Albanian orthodox 300 (even a bulgarian can't deny christian albanian presence there, numbers are under counted no need to say "why")
Albanian muslims 500 (most of this group was calculated as Turks as it was normal for muslim Albanians at that time)
Vlachs 460
Roma 600

http://www.promacedonia.org/vk/vk_2_39.htm

there are also some minor historical events in the town about some albanian rebellions, and beheading of rebel albanians also near that tree that to my knowledge is not a maple tree but a "plane tree" (i had the chance to visit that place some weeks ago) :D.
A Canadian is able to distinguish a maple :P

Apart of numbers delivered above I can openly say that Oher/Ohrid it's a town that express heavily Bulgarian and Ottoman culture. Albanian presence is somehow in relation to the Bulgarian culture for the christian Albanians, and Ottoman for Muslim Albanians.
So Bulgarians have all the rights to protect and claim the town as part of their cultural heritage.

Petros Houhoulis

08-19-2013, 07:11 PM

Everything you see there is Bulgarian.
The fortress,the churches,the graves,the inscriptions,the historical figures from the last 1400 years!
Ohrid is of zero historic importance to the Albanians.
If not,prove me wrong!

Even this Maple tree it is said that was planted by Saint Clement

http://volino.mk/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/579981_390331771002127_397806561_n.jpg

You start reminding of the Serbs' talk about Kossovo 20-30 years earlier... No matter their history, the Albanians shall outbreed the fools to extinction. I could also mention to you that Manastir is a Greek name and that the Albanians don't have an Albanian name for it, while Ohrid used to be Lyncestis and be Greek before 1400 years when the Slavs arrived here...

We are all running in circles, but let's just face it: if the goons don't set up borders, the few surviving of them shall end up shooting each other in Sofia just like in the old days...

The Illyrian Warrior

08-19-2013, 07:34 PM

You start reminding of the Serbs' talk about Kossovo 20-30 years earlier... No matter their history, the Albanians shall outbreed the fools to extinction. I could also mention to you that Manastir is a Greek name and that the Albanians don't have an Albanian name for it, while Ohrid used to be Lyncestis and be Greek before 1400 years when the Slavs arrived here...

We are all running in circles, but let's just face it: if the goons don't set up borders, the few surviving of them shall end up shooting each other in Sofia just like in the old days...

What the heck your talkin' about, Manastir is word for Monastery in english you fool, what other meaning you want??.....And in Manastir Albanians always had historic presence, greeks NOT and don't come up with ancient macedonian BS. :picard2:

i__w

08-19-2013, 08:00 PM

I'm not trying to be mean, i'm just saying the reality. :D

PS. As for Albanians, around Demir Hisar villages there is small Albanian presence.

Demir Hisar itself used to be 100% Albanian village. Most of agricultural land in the municipality is situated around Demir Hisar village. Macedonians overtook the village and the land, most of the Albanians left, and now around 1/3 of the municipality population is situated in Demir Hisar village 2593 in total with 2473 macedonians and 62 albanians + 22 "turks"

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 09:39 PM

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 09:47 PM

Vasil Kanchov did a sort of census over the region in late '800 and publishing it in '900. Kanchov was bulgarian and numbers are heavily supporting 'bulgarian' point of view over macedonia. But even Kanchov is not denying Albanian presence in the town itself..

Kanchov is probably the most realistic traveler I came across.
If you have seen Kanchovs descriptions about other populated places,you will see what I mean.
Kanchov also writes about the presence of Albanian orthodox Christians in villages in the region of Mavrovo.

And especially in terms of the Albanians...
If he should have been hiding something,it was the Greek,Serbian (Serbs unlike Greeks didnt exist in Macedonia at all) population.
Albanians back then werent seen as a threat to the Bulgarian idea,so why manipulate?

There are several similar census done by Bulgarians,one of them was by the secretary of the Bulgarian Exarchate,Dimitar Mishev.About his works I can say that they are unbalanced,but nothing radical.
You should see what Greek censuses conducted by the Patriarchate look like.:D

iNird

08-19-2013, 09:52 PM

Demir Hisar itself used to be 100% Albanian village. Most of agricultural land in the municipality is situated around Demir Hisar village. Macedonians overtook the village and the land, most of the Albanians left, and now around 1/3 of the municipality population is situated in Demir Hisar village 2593 in total with 2473 macedonians and 62 albanians + 22 "turks"

Why did the Albanians leave? When did this change occur?

I actually passed through Demir Hisar on my way to Prespa a few weeks ago. It was one of the few macedonian nationalistic cities I have seen even more so than the Albanian ones from appearance. They had macedonian flags on both sides of the road within 5 meters from another.

:D

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 10:03 PM

You start reminding of the Serbs' talk about Kossovo 20-30 years earlier... No matter their history, the Albanians shall outbreed the fools to extinction. I could also mention to you that Manastir is a Greek name and that the Albanians don't have an Albanian name for it, while Ohrid used to be Lyncestis and be Greek before 1400 years when the Slavs arrived here...

We are all running in circles, but let's just face it: if the goons don't set up borders, the few surviving of them shall end up shooting each other in Sofia just like in the old days...

Bulgarian legacy of Ohrid is stronger than the Serbian of Kosovo.
The very name ''Kosovo'' was given to the region when it was part of the Bulgar Empire.,Bulgaria ruled over it first,before the Serbs.
So if we use your logic about those Greek city-states like the one in Ohrid,then Kosovo is Bulgarian?

Albanians dont have the demographic capacity to take Ohrid or Bitola.
They blew it when during the 1950's tons of them from Bitola and Resen left/were kicked out to Turkey.

iNird

08-19-2013, 10:09 PM

Albanians dont have the demographic capacity to take Ohrid, or Bitola.
They blew it when during the 1950's tons of them from Bitola and Resen left/were kicked out to Turkey.

The ones that left for Turkey were deported by force , add in the huge emigration to the West and importation of Slavs from Greece and the area is lost. Even today the Albanian figure is further diluted from the ones declaring Turkish ethnicity.

I went in an Albanian village near resen and the village consisted of about 30 houses. Only 5 or so still were present in the village. The whole area is one big ghost town.

i__w

08-19-2013, 10:10 PM

Its name was actually Murgashevo.
It was renamed later to Demir Hisar.

yep I saw that fact first in Bulgarian wikipedia :) with my limited knowledge in slavic languages I can read few lines without google translate :D

before islamisation village was called Murgash :) and bulgarians always refer with name Murgashevo

i__w

08-19-2013, 10:20 PM

Why did the Albanians leave? When did this change occur?

I actually passed through Demir Hisar on my way to Prespa a few weeks ago. It was one of the few macedonian nationalistic cities I have seen even more so than the Albanian ones from appearance. They had macedonian flags on both sides of the road within 5 meters from another.

:D

Bugarash is from that area and knows better, but according to my understanding and demographic data probably Albanians left during waves of population move toward Turkey in '30s and '50s and '60s. Nationalism among slavic population is always higher in new settler population(I think from villages around though not from far), take example of serbs in kosova. To say the truth from around 30 villages only 3-4 had Albanian majority in the Demir Hisar area, Albanian owned more land and in a normal situation like today could have controlled the region very easily, but that's not the case.

I think that Albanians from Demir Hisar are part of Tosk Albanian population of Macedonia. I'm curious to see that area landscape looks nice.

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 10:21 PM

Serboslavian census from 1931 according to religion and mother tongue

http://pod2.stat.gov.rs/ObjavljenePublikacije/G1931/pdf/G19314001.pdf

Muslims in Skopje back then were 39% of the population...
Albanian mother tongue 19,6%...

Shah-Jehan

08-19-2013, 10:21 PM

Serboslavian census from 1931 according to religion and mother tongue

http://pod2.stat.gov.rs/ObjavljenePu.../G19314001.pdf

invalid link

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 10:26 PM

invalid link

Try again

http://pod2.stat.gov.rs/ObjavljenePublikacije/G1931/pdf/G19314001.pdf

i__w

08-19-2013, 10:35 PM

Kanchov is probably the most realistic traveler I came across.
If you have seen Kanchovs descriptions about other populated places,you will see what I mean.
Kanchov also writes about the presence of Albanian orthodox Christians in villages in the region of Mavrovo.

And especially in terms of the Albanians...
If he should have been hiding something,it was the Greek,Serbian (Serbs unlike Greeks didnt exist in Macedonia at all) population.
Albanians back then werent seen as a threat to the Bulgarian idea,so why manipulate?

There are several similar census done by Bulgarians,one of them was by the secretary of the Bulgarian Exarchate,Dimitar Mishev.About his works I can say that they are unbalanced,but nothing radical.
You should see what Greek censuses conducted by the Patriarchate look like.:D

Maybe you got me wrong but I like Kanchov a lot. In my view is the best census performed over Macedonia. I saw other censuses and estimation and a total disaster. The worst are from greeks and serbs (or europeans protecting serbian and greek "le pont de vue")
That's the reason that for a couple of times I'm referring to Kanchov. Also Tukish census data of 1878 are not bad and I guess Kanchov used it as reference. But still Kanchov did some things to help Bulgarian point of view not in inventing bulgarian population where it was not preset but increasing their number and lowering the number other groups. My opinion is that it was more convenient for him to lower the Albanian population (nobody cared for Albanians and no body could say a word in case you count them as Bulgarians) that's not the case with Serbs and Greeks, you couldn't dare to count a Greek or a Serb christian as Bulgarian

Bugarash 1893

08-19-2013, 11:02 PM

Municipalities with CBR (birth rate) 11+ in 2012

Studenicani: 29,9
Shuto Orizari: 23,1
Cashka: 22,8
Aracinovo: 20,8
Saraj: 19,2
Dolneni: 18,7
Petrovec: 18,4
Zelenikovo: 18,1
Cucer Sandevo: 17,8
Cair: 16,4
Zelino: 16,2
Karbinci: 16,2
Lipkovo: 16,1
Plasnica: 15,8
Sopishte: 15,3
Centar: 14,4
Vasilevo: 14,1
Radovish: 13,2
Strumica: 13,1
Tetovo: 13
Butel: 12,9
Debar: 12,8
Vrapcishte: 12,5
Kumanovo: 12,3
Bogovinje: 12
Gazi Baba: 11,9
Ilinden: 11,7
Veles: 11,5
Struga: 11,4
Brvenica: 11

Bugarash 1893

08-20-2013, 01:56 AM

Bilingual road signs do not exist in Shar Mountain region

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=EAB2F286942CFA458646DE76EFD77D5C

http://www.sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/statija/teaser-images/2013/avgust/59f173edfc4cae4a8d1585dc4aeebdc3.jpg

http://www.sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/statija/images/2013/avgust/58e94f4622594743854f4f16b63a2f54.jpg

http://www.sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/statija/images/2013/avgust/44e3af412ea037489ba21eed52916fd2.jpg

Petros Houhoulis

08-20-2013, 04:54 AM

What the heck your talkin' about, Manastir is word for Monastery in english you fool, what other meaning you want??.....And in Manastir Albanians always had historic presence, greeks NOT and don't come up with ancient macedonian BS. :picard2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastir,_Macedonia#Etymology

Another Greek name under which the city used to be best-known and which is still in use, is Monastíri (Μοναστήρι), also meaning "monastery". The Turkish name Manastır (Ottoman Turkish: مناستر) is derived from the Greek name, as is the Albanian Manastiri. Monastíri was the original Byzantine name for the city before it was changed to the Slavic Obitelya (Обителя).

What did you say again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastir,_Tunisia

Monastir (Arabic: المـنسـتير‎ Al-Munastîr, from the Greek μοναστήριον "Hermit's Cell, monastery", called [lmiˈstiːr] in Tunisian Arabic), is a city on the central coast of Tunisia, in the Sahel area, (20 km south of Sousse and 162 km south of Tunis).

Of course we were there...

Petros Houhoulis

08-20-2013, 05:00 AM

Kanchov is probably the most realistic traveler I came across.
If you have seen Kanchovs descriptions about other populated places,you will see what I mean.
Kanchov also writes about the presence of Albanian orthodox Christians in villages in the region of Mavrovo.

And especially in terms of the Albanians...
If he should have been hiding something,it was the Greek,Serbian (Serbs unlike Greeks didnt exist in Macedonia at all) population.
Albanians back then werent seen as a threat to the Bulgarian idea,so why manipulate?

There are several similar census done by Bulgarians,one of them was by the secretary of the Bulgarian Exarchate,Dimitar Mishev.About his works I can say that they are unbalanced,but nothing radical.
You should see what Greek censuses conducted by the Patriarchate look like.:D

The Patriarchate counted people according to their religious affiliation, not their language. Unfortunately people get to chose where they belong. The Germans cannot go to the Luxembourgians, the Alsatians, the Swiss, the Lichtensteinians, the Austrians and perhaps even others, and tell them that they are Germans because they speak German...

...And the Slavic speaking Patriarchists were (usually) voting for the Greek representatives in the Ottoman parliament, if you want to know...

Petros Houhoulis

08-20-2013, 05:17 AM

Bulgarian legacy of Ohrid is stronger than the Serbian of Kosovo.
The very name ''Kosovo'' was given to the region when it was part of the Bulgar Empire.,Bulgaria ruled over it first,before the Serbs.

...But according to wikipedia, the word Kossovo is Serbian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo#Name

Kosovo (Serbian Cyrillic: Косово, [kôsoʋo]) is the Serbian neuter possessive adjective of kos (кос) "blackbird",[27] an ellipsis for Kosovo Polje, 'blackbird field', the site of the 1389 Battle of Kosovo Field. The name of the field was applied to an Ottoman province created in 1864.

So if we use your logic about those Greek city-states like the one in Ohrid,then Kosovo is Bulgarian?

Albanians dont have the demographic capacity to take Ohrid or Bitola.
They blew it when during the 1950's tons of them from Bitola and Resen left/were kicked out to Turkey.

In any case, if you say that the Albanians don't have the demographic capacity to take over those places, can you tell me who posted this map and suggested that in 15 years the latest it shall be true?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/421814_259834937435561_1367218454_n.jpg

In case you forgot, let me remind you the exact occasion:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89981-Macedonia-defeats-Bulgaria&p=1831504&viewfull=1#post1831504

Bugarash, don't shoot yourself in the foot. You have a certain credibility around here. You are not Chokolate or Onur...

The Illyrian Warrior

08-20-2013, 08:14 AM

The Illyrian Warrior

08-20-2013, 08:18 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastir,_Macedonia#Etymology

What did you say again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastir,_Tunisia

Of course we were there...

Manastir in Albanian has same meaning as Monastery in english you fool, its not a foreign name like you've said before.

Bugarash 1893

08-20-2013, 05:39 PM

In any case, if you say that the Albanians don't have the demographic capacity to take over those places, can you tell me who posted this map and suggested that in 15 years the latest it shall be true?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/421814_259834937435561_1367218454_n.jpg

In case you forgot, let me remind you the exact occasion:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89981-Macedonia-defeats-Bulgaria&p=1831504&viewfull=1#post1831504

Bugarash, don't shoot yourself in the foot. You have a certain credibility around here. You are not Chokolate or Onur...

If I remember it right...
The yellow area was propoused to be a ''Mixed federal unit''.
The red one to be the Albanian and the rest would be the Macedonian unit.

These are the municipalities within the yellow area that are likely or already are taken over by Albanians.

Sopishte

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Map_of_Sopi%C5%A1te_Municipality.svg/744px-Map_of_Sopi%C5%A1te_Municipality.svg.png

Studenicani

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Map_of_Studeni%C4%8Dani_Municipality.svg/744px-Map_of_Studeni%C4%8Dani_Municipality.svg.png

Cashka

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Map_of_%C4%8Ca%C5%A1ka_Municipality.svg/744px-Map_of_%C4%8Ca%C5%A1ka_Municipality.svg.png

Dolneni

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Map_of_Dolneni_Municipality.svg/744px-Map_of_Dolneni_Municipality.svg.png

Krushevo

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Map_of_Kru%C5%A1evo_Municipality.svg/744px-Map_of_Kru%C5%A1evo_Municipality.svg.png

The Illyrian Warrior

08-20-2013, 05:51 PM

If I remember it right...
The yellow area was propoused to be a ''Mixed federal unit''.
The red one to be the Albanian and the rest would be the Macedonian unit.

These are the municipalities within the yellow area that are likely or already are taken over by Albanians.

Bugarash you didn't reply my demand i've asked from you to show CBR by ethnicity in macedonian municipalities if you could?!!! :(

Bugarash 1893

08-20-2013, 06:51 PM

Bugarash you didn't reply my demand i've asked from you to show CBR by ethnicity in macedonian municipalities if you could?!!! :(

Patience is a value.:thumb001:

Albanian CBR 2012

Studenicani: 34,8
Shuto Orizari: 20,6
Cashka: 49,9
Aracinovo: 21,9
Saraj: 19,9
Dolneni: 31,8
Petrovec: 24,3
Zelenikovo: 30,6
Cucer Sandevo: 44,7
Cair: 20,7
Zelino: 16,1
Karbinci: /
Lipkovo: 16,2
Plasnica: /
Sopishte: 22,6
Centar: 112,6
Vasilevo: /
Radovish: /
Strumica: /
Tetovo: 13,9
Butel: 20,6
Debar: 10,3
Vrapcishte: 12,2
Kumanovo: 16,9
Bogovinje: 12,1
Gazi Baba: 20,7
Ilinden: 36,9
Veles: 38,2
Struga: 8,4
Brvenica: 13,3

In Struga and Debar is for sure higher,but you know the situation with the Torbesh...:)

Municipalities with CBR (birth rate) 11+ in 2012

Studenicani: 29,9
Shuto Orizari: 23,1
Cashka: 22,8
Aracinovo: 20,8
Saraj: 19,2
Dolneni: 18,7
Petrovec: 18,4
Zelenikovo: 18,1
Cucer Sandevo: 17,8
Cair: 16,4
Zelino: 16,2
Karbinci: 16,2
Lipkovo: 16,1
Plasnica: 15,8
Sopishte: 15,3
Centar: 14,4
Vasilevo: 14,1
Radovish: 13,2
Strumica: 13,1
Tetovo: 13
Butel: 12,9
Debar: 12,8
Vrapcishte: 12,5
Kumanovo: 12,3
Bogovinje: 12
Gazi Baba: 11,9
Ilinden: 11,7
Veles: 11,5
Struga: 11,4
Brvenica: 11

The Illyrian Warrior

08-20-2013, 07:05 PM

Patience is a value.:thumb001:

Albanian CBR 2012

Studenicani: 34,8
Shuto Orizari: 20,6
Cashka: 49,9
Aracinovo: 21,9
Saraj: 19,9
Dolneni: 31,8
Petrovec: 24,3
Zelenikovo: 30,6
Cucer Sandevo: 44,7
Cair: 20,7
Zelino: 16,1
Karbinci: /
Lipkovo: 16,2
Plasnica: /
Sopishte: 22,6
Centar: 112,6
Vasilevo: /
Radovish: /
Strumica: /
Tetovo: 13,9
Butel: 20,6
Debar: 10,3
Vrapcishte: 12,2
Kumanovo: 16,9
Bogovinje: 12,1
Gazi Baba: 20,7
Ilinden: 36,9
Veles: 38,2
Struga: 8,4
Brvenica: 13,3

In Struga and Debar is for sure higher,but you know the situation with the Torbesh...:)

Thanks for the work, i repeat it twice cause i thought you didn't saw my earlier post. :thumb001:

Bugarash 1893

08-21-2013, 01:23 AM

We need to see the primary school student population by ethnicity 2011/2012...hope it will be published soon.

iNird

08-21-2013, 01:34 AM

We need to see the primary school student population by ethnicity 2011/2012...hope it will be published soon.

Isn't this it?

http://i42.tinypic.com/25h0l8w.png

http://www.stat.gov.mk/pdf/2013/2.1.13.08.pdf

The Illyrian Warrior

08-21-2013, 07:18 AM

Isn't this it?

http://i42.tinypic.com/25h0l8w.png

http://www.stat.gov.mk/pdf/2013/2.1.13.08.pdf

Maybe he meant by municipalities.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-21-2013, 09:04 AM

Isn't this it?

http://i42.tinypic.com/25h0l8w.png

http://www.stat.gov.mk/pdf/2013/2.1.13.08.pdf

What I found interesting here, its 3x times more macedonian schools than Albanian when in students proportions are just 2x more than albanians.....This show what privileges enjoy macedonian part from government and a discrimination on Albanian part.

Petros Houhoulis

08-21-2013, 10:25 AM

What I found interesting here, its 3x times more macedonian schools than Albanian when in students proportions are just 2x more than albanians.....This show what privileges enjoy macedonian part from government and a discrimination on Albanian part.

Nah... They just have hundreds of semi-abandoned villages with 1-10 students each... Sooner or later that number shall fall to 0 and those schools shall close for good...

...Unless if you take over those villages of course...

i__w

08-21-2013, 12:54 PM

Lets compare some data from 2002 census and Macedonian Statistical Office population estimation by municipality in recent time.

Saraj vs Gjorce Petrov west of Shkup/Skopje. Two neighbour municipalities, Saraj with Albanian dominated population vs Gjorce Petrov with Macedonian population

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Map_of_Skopje.svg/500px-Map_of_Skopje.svg.png

Municipality....census 2002.......2005........2006........2007........200 8........2009........2010........2011........2012
Gj Petrov.............41,634.......40,875.....41,084. ....41,284......41,477.....41,674.....41,786...... 41,858.....41,965
Saraj...................35,408.......36,574.....36 ,973.....37,331......37,662.....38,022.....38,448. .....38,884.....39,303
Difference..............6,226.........4,301....... 4,111......3,953........3,815.......3,652.......3, 338.......2,974.......2,662

The Illyrian Warrior

08-21-2013, 01:04 PM

Nah... They just have hundreds of semi-abandoned villages with 1-10 students each... Sooner or later that number shall fall to 0 and those schools shall close for good...

...Unless if you take over those villages of course...

You may have right on this one Petros, didn't thought to much on that. :)

i__w

08-21-2013, 01:11 PM

yet again comparing ilinden vs aracina Shkup/Skopje area

Ilinden mos succesful municipality with Macedonians, in terms of demographic development vs Aracina/Aracinovo dominated by Albanian population

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_Region_of_Macedonia_en.svg/500px-Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_Region_of_Macedonia_en.svg .png

Municipality....census 2002.......2005........2006........2007........200 8........2009........2010........2011........2012
Ilinden...............15,894........16,112.....16, 214.....16,323.......16,402......16,461.....16,534 ......16,607......16,674
Aracina...............11,597........11,813.....11, 999.....12,180......12,352......12,494......12,661 .....12,838......13,012
Difference..............4,297........4,299.......4 ,215.......4,143........4,050........3,967........ 3,873......3,769........3,662

iNird

08-21-2013, 01:18 PM

What I found interesting here, its 3x times more macedonian schools than Albanian when in students proportions are just 2x more than albanians.....This show what privileges enjoy macedonian part from government and a discrimination on Albanian part.

Yep like Petros said there are probably a bunch of villages with like 5 mako students there.

But there probably is a discrimination in funds in terms of education. For example, university of shtip is known to get more funding albeit having less students than the university of tetova.

i__w

08-21-2013, 01:20 PM

Studenicani vs Ilinden

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_Region_of_Macedonia_en.svg/500px-Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_Region_of_Macedonia_en.svg .png

Municipality....census 2002.....2005......2006......2007......2008......2 009......2010......2011......2012
Studenicani........17,246......17,684....18,018... 18,342....18,658....18,970...19,319....19,673...20 ,047
Ilinden..............15,894......16,112....16,214. ...16,323....16,402....16,461...16,534....16,607.. .16,674
Difference............1,352.......1,572......1,804 .....2,019......2,256......2,509.....2,785.....3,0 66.....3,373

iNird

08-21-2013, 01:26 PM

I_w you need to find a more organize way to post the data :p

i__w

08-21-2013, 01:36 PM

Struga vs Oher/Ohrid

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Ethnic_groups_in_the_Southwestern_Region_of_Macedo nia_en.svg/500px-Ethnic_groups_in_the_Southwestern_Region_of_Macedo nia_en.svg.png

Municipality....census 2002.....2005......2006......2007......2008......2 009......2010........2011.......2012
Struga..............63,376.......64,084....64,066. ..63,988....64,109....64,287....64,453....64,657.. ..64,864
Oher................55,749........55,593....55,411 ...55,328....55,266....55,023....54,759....54,269. ...53,467
Difference...........7,627.........8,491......8,65 5.....8,660.....8,843......9,264......9,694....10, 388....11,397

i__w

08-21-2013, 01:37 PM

I_w you need to find a more organize way to post the data :p

if you got any idea...

iNird

08-21-2013, 01:40 PM

if you got any idea...

Well it will require a few more mins of work but you can input the data into excel or any spreadsheet and then take a print screen of it.

Or just out the years under one column and next to it the amount. Ex:

2001- 33,000
2002 - 31,000

Etc....

i__w

08-21-2013, 01:45 PM

Well it will require a few more mins of work but you can input the data into excel or any spreadsheet and then take a print screen of it.

Or just out the years under one column and next to it the amount. Ex:

2001- 33,000
2002 - 31,000

Etc....

give it a try and we can see if you can succed :)
start with above table

p.s. printscreen might be the only way to have a better understanding of multiple rows and columns, I'll try in case i find time

Bugarash 1893

08-21-2013, 04:24 PM

What I found interesting here, its 3x times more macedonian schools than Albanian when in students proportions are just 2x more than albanians.....This show what privileges enjoy macedonian part from government and a discrimination on Albanian part.

Have in mind that that date shows only the number of students on the language program.
Number of Macedonians is lower.
All Roma,Bosniaks,Vlachs and Others,most Turks,Serbs and even some Albanians study on the Macedonian/Bulgarian language program.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-21-2013, 04:30 PM

Have in mind that that date shows only the number of students on the language program.
Number of Macedonians is lower.
All Roma,Bosniaks,Vlachs and Others,most Turks,Serbs and even some Albanians study on the Macedonian/Bulgarian language program.

So the table wasn't quoting the ethnicity of students?

Gorštak

08-21-2013, 07:48 PM

I hope that Macedonians will have all rights in future in Macedonia.
Like every other national minority.

Shah-Jehan

08-21-2013, 07:58 PM

I hope that Macedonians will have all rights in future in Macedonia.
Like every other national minority.

http://images.memegenerator.net/Instance/Preview?imageID=984&generatorTypeID=&text0=Macedonians&text1=Do%20they%20even%20exist%3F&rectangle=false

Gorštak

08-21-2013, 08:10 PM

http://images.memegenerator.net/Instance/Preview?imageID=984&generatorTypeID=&text0=Macedonians&text1=Do%20they%20even%20exist%3F&rectangle=false

Yes, they exist and actually those I know are cool people and I hope for good future of their state.
But I really hope they have better tactics that Vojnik's " let's try to present Albanians as extremists and hope that somebody will come to save our ass":icon_cheesygrin:

The Illyrian Warrior

08-21-2013, 08:14 PM

I hope that Macedonians will have all rights in future in Macedonia.
Like every other national minority.

Their rights will be guaranteed, no worry about that. ;)

KrashNick

08-21-2013, 08:16 PM

Yes, they exist and actually those I know are cool people and I hope for good future of their state.
But I really hope they have better tactics that Vojnik's " let's try to present Albanians as extremists and hope that somebody will come to save our ass":icon_cheesygrin:

Wondering if people will still call them "Macedonians" :D

Gorštak

08-21-2013, 08:21 PM

Wondering if people will still call them "Macedonians" :D

Well, I don't know any Macedonian that we actually call him with his real name, every of them is just "Makedonac":p

KrashNick

08-21-2013, 08:24 PM

Well, I don't know any Macedonian that we actually call him with his real name, every of them is just "Makedonac":p
Nah i like to call them "Fyromanian" so i guess this will be forever their real name .

iNird

08-21-2013, 08:50 PM

Have Albanians in Shkupi an own university like Tetovar Albanians or do they prefer to study Quran?

Ironic coming from the fresh convert who is 2x more religious than your average Albanian from Macedonia.

The wahabbi idiots that you are alluding to were mainly ex drunks or idiots that have never read a book let alone the Quran in their life.

You should visit for yourself abeja. You are in Italy and not even that far....

Arbërori

08-21-2013, 08:54 PM

Most of the youth in Tetova can be considered even more openminded than in some Western countries... Lots of potential, but little opportunity, it's a pity.

Bugarash 1893

08-21-2013, 10:58 PM

Little offtopic but still related.

The new mosque in Zlatograd,Bulgaria.
This region is populated by Pomaks (Torbesh version) but in Bulgaria.
Part of them declare to be Turks,but many remained loyal to Bulgarism.
The minaret has lights reflecting the Bulgarian flag.:thumb001:

This mosque is financed by Pomaks from Western Thrace,Greece who have relatives in Bulgaria.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/s720x720/862510_4204833294130_1377279158_n.jpg?oh=5463fc6c7 bfff9f1a421db58bb4bed46&oe=521569E8&__gda__=1377182060_6e5293608bcd9930816e2fbc8112507 e

Bugarash 1893

08-22-2013, 03:02 AM

Cucer Sandevo/Cucer Sandeve municipality is the door of Macedonia with Kosova.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Map_of_%C4%8Cu%C4%8Der_Sandevo_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_%C4%8Cu%C4%8Der_Sandevo_Municipality.svg.pn g

Credibility of 2002 Census data is low for this municipality. The number of internal displaced persons caused from 2001 war, was big. On the other hand an artificial influx of Macedonian and Serbian population was registered for Kucevishte village from nearby Radishani village part of Butel municipality(Cair at that time)

Census 1994

* Macedonians..........32.9%
* Albanians...............37.9%
* Serbs....................27.8%

Census 2002

* Macedonians..........47.3%
* Albanians...............22.9%
* Serbs....................28.6%

Births 2012 data

* Total.....................100%.....152
* Macedonians..........38.2%......58
* Albanians...............57.3%......87
* Serbs......................3.3%.......5

Local election 2013 Albanian parties ~38% (perfect match with 1994 census)
Registered Albanian voters 2013 ~50%

Deaths 2012 data

* Total.....................100%.....81
* Macedonians..........54.3%.....44
* Albanians...............17.3%.....14
* Serbs....................28.4%.....23

38%?
I see 26% of the votes for the councils...

http://217.16.84.17/Results.aspx?RaceID=2&UnitID=80&IsPS=0&Turnout=0&LangID=2

i__w

08-22-2013, 08:12 AM

38%?
I see 26% of the votes for the councils...

http://217.16.84.17/Results.aspx?RaceID=2&UnitID=80&IsPS=0&Turnout=0&LangID=2

yep a mistake with my database, the information given from my was correct, but it was relation for the same municipality for local elections held in 2005

http://www.sec.mk/arhiva/2005_lokalni/II_24rez_mapaSovet.htm#

Albanians won 5 of 11 seats in local council and around 2212 of 5627 from valid votes

what I tried to point here is that for this municipality is lot of data not matching with each other.
there is an increase of voters from 2005 to 2013 (6579 up to 6972) with benefit only in Macedonians parties and nothing to Albanian side. In case you see village structure between censuses all is the same with exception of Kucevishte experiencing an abnormal increase, and to my guess that comes from Radishani village from Butel Municipality.

Bugarash 1893

08-22-2013, 01:04 PM

yep a mistake with my database, the information given from my was correct, but it was relation for the same municipality for local elections held in 2005

http://www.sec.mk/arhiva/2005_lokalni/II_24rez_mapaSovet.htm#

Albanians won 5 of 11 seats in local council and around 2212 of 5627 from valid votes

what I tried to point here is that for this municipality is lot of data not matching with each other.
there is an increase of voters from 2005 to 2013 (6579 up to 6972) with benefit only in Macedonians parties and nothing to Albanian side. In case you see village structure between censuses all is the same with exception of Kucevishte experiencing an abnormal increase, and to my guess that comes from Radishani village from Butel Municipality.

So is there a bright explanation why Albanian voters decreased?

And how can the increase come from Radishani?
I dont get it...do people from Radishani have Cucer Sandevo written in their ID documents as a place of living or what?

The Illyrian Warrior

08-24-2013, 03:53 PM

Live births by municipalities, second quarter of 2013
- provisional data -

Total - 5.470

Shkupi/Skopje - 1.548
-Aerodrom - 171
-Butel - 118
-Gazi Baba - 205
-Gjorche Petrov - 109
-Karposh - 155
-Kisela Voda - 134
-Saraj - 168
-Centar - 144
-Chair - 222
-Shuto Orizari - 122
Haraçina/Arachinovo - 53
Berovo - 20
Manastiri/Bitola - 223
Bogdanci - 10
Bogovinje - 87
Bosilovo - 28
Brvenica - 38
Valandovo - 22
Vasilevo - 34
Vevchani - 1
Veles - 110
Vinica - 20
Vraneshtica - 1
Vrapchishte - 63
Gevgelija - 55
Gostivar - 219
Gradsko - 9
Dibra/Debar - 72
Debarca - 5
Delchevo - 31
Demir Kapija - 12
Demir Hisar - 13
Dojran - 13
Dolneni - 49
Drugovo - 6
Zhelino - 87
Zajas - 11
Zelenikovo - 13
Zrnovci - 5
Ilinden - 40
Jegunovce - 30
Kavadarci - 95
Karbinci - 10
Uskana/Kichevo - 80
Konche - 6
Kochani - 70
Kratovo - 22
Kriva Palanka - 38
Krivogashtani - 12
Krushevo - 29
Kumanovo - 305
Likova/Lipkovo - 93
Lozovo - 6
Mavrovo and Rostusha - 20
Makedonska Kamenica - 18
Makedonski Brod - 7
Mogila - 12
Negotino - 38
Novaci - 7
Novo Selo - 20
Oslomej - 11
Ohri/Ohrid - 122
Petrovec - 34
Pehchevo - 11
Plasnica - 21
Prilep - 173
Probishtip - 18
Radovish - 80
Rankovce - 8
Prespa/Resen - 41
Rosoman - 5
Shen Nikolla/Sveti Nikole - 44
Sopishte - 37
Staro Nagorichane - 5
Struga - 159
Strumica - 158
Studenichani - 117
Tearce - 67
Tetovo - 321
Centar Zhupa - 13
Chashka - 39
Cheshinovo Obleshevo - 6
Chucher Sandevo - 36
Shtip - 128

Petros Houhoulis

08-25-2013, 01:26 AM

38%?
I see 26% of the votes for the councils...

http://217.16.84.17/Results.aspx?RaceID=2&UnitID=80&IsPS=0&Turnout=0&LangID=2

The Albanians are younger, and those below a certain age are not allowed to vote - not to mention those living in other countries of course...

Petros Houhoulis

08-25-2013, 02:51 AM

Yep like Petros said there are probably a bunch of villages with like 5 mako students there.

But there probably is a discrimination in funds in terms of education. For example, university of shtip is known to get more funding albeit having less students than the university of tetova.

You are probably correct but you are not addressing the most important issue: If the curriculum is crap, then no amount of education can make your life better:

http://www.tol.org/client/article/19030-class-struggle.html

http://chalkboard.tol.org/macedonia-macabre-market

http://chalkboard.tol.org/launch-a-key-to-unlock-the-past-a-report-on-history-education-in-macedonia

http://www.tol.org/client/article/23392-macedonias-cooling-off-period.html

http://chalkboard.tol.org/macedonia-go-to-the-head-of-the-class

http://chalkboard.tol.org/macedonia-learn-to-forget

One of the reasons I tried hard to avoid attending to a Greek university is my belief that Greek universities are no different from yours. Maybe better in some respects, but an education in plain theory doesn't help much in a mechanized world...

iNird

08-25-2013, 05:22 PM

You are probably correct but you are not addressing the most important issue: If the curriculum is crap, then no amount of education can make your life better:

http://www.tol.org/client/article/19030-class-struggle.html

http://chalkboard.tol.org/macedonia-macabre-market

http://chalkboard.tol.org/launch-a-key-to-unlock-the-past-a-report-on-history-education-in-macedonia

http://www.tol.org/client/article/23392-macedonias-cooling-off-period.html

http://chalkboard.tol.org/macedonia-go-to-the-head-of-the-class

http://chalkboard.tol.org/macedonia-learn-to-forget

One of the reasons I tried hard to avoid attending to a Greek university is my belief that Greek universities are no different from yours. Maybe better in some respects, but an education in plain theory doesn't help much in a mechanized world...

That is true but what is the alternative? Private universities that are pretty much a scam in the Balkans? Or are you suggesting more technical schools?

Bugarash 1893

08-25-2013, 10:50 PM

Kumanovo-second largest municipality by population in Macedonia (after Skopje)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Map_of_Kumanovo_Municipality.svg/744px-Map_of_Kumanovo_Municipality.svg.png

According to the 2002 census:

Macedonians: 63,746 = 60.4%
Albanians: 27,290 = 25.8%
Serbs: 9,062 = 8.6%
Roma: 4,256 = 4.1%

Births/Deaths 2008-2012

Macedonians

663/704 = 52,9% from the total number of births
729/691 = 54,5%
704/720 = 51,9%
649/741 = 52,0%
707/738 = 54,0%

Albanians

446/160 = 35,6%
430/124 = 32,1%
443/129 = 32,6%
433/195 = 34,7%
462/142 = 35,3%

Serbs (Serbomans)

26/84 = 2,0%
26/79 = 1,9%
23/105 = 1,6%
29/102 = 2,3%
22/101 = 1,6%

Roma

105/32 = 8,3%
143/27 = 10,6%
173/37 = 12,7%
125/27 = 10,0%
109/55 = 8,3%

The Serbomans are being sucked in into the Macedonian body.
But even that provides limited help.

Petros Houhoulis

08-25-2013, 11:17 PM

That is true but what is the alternative? Private universities that are pretty much a scam in the Balkans? Or are you suggesting more technical schools?

I do suggest more technical schools. Even the Germans have accepted the folly of Universities over technical schools lately, and they are suffering from a lack of qualified technicians lately. Let's face it, many of the theoretical sciences that people teach at schools today are only good for blabbering on the Apricity and other relevant forums. Entire faculties like Economics, Sociology and Theology are a total scum and an absolute waste of money...

i__w

08-26-2013, 01:33 PM

So is there a bright explanation why Albanian voters decreased?

And how can the increase come from Radishani?
I dont get it...do people from Radishani have Cucer Sandevo written in their ID documents as a place of living or what?

Let see the situation in Kucevishte village, part of Cucer Sandevo municipality between 1994 and 2002 censuses.

Kucevishte......Total....Macedonians....Serbs
census1994....1869..........367...........1462
Census2002....3167........1460...........1654

So an increase of around 1300 persons that is a total of new houses 250 in the village

Let see what is happening with nearby villages

Brazda...........Total
Census1994......449
Census2002......480

Mirkovci...........Total
Census1994......866
Census2002......969

Pobozhje...........Total
Census1994......560
Census2002......591

So macedonian increase comes from expansions of outskirts of Radishani village, something similar that happened also with Sopishte and that was arranged with 2004 territorial regulation
http://s5.postimg.org/npun2me6f/Kucevishte.png

Albanian issue is an other thing since in the elections Albanian share goes from 22% up to more than 40% from an election to an other. I have no clue why.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-26-2013, 01:44 PM

Let see the situation in Kucevishte village, part of Cucer Sandevo municipality between 1994 and 2002 censuses.

So an increase of around 1300 persons that is a total of new houses 250 in the village

Let see what is happening with nearby villages

So macedonian increase comes from expansions of outskirts of Radishani village, something similar that happened also with Sopishte and that was arranged with 2004 territorial regulation
http://s5.postimg.org/npun2me6f/Kucevishte.png

Albanian issue is an other thing since in the elections Albanian share goes from 22% up to more than 40% from an election to an other. I have no clue why.

Depends from participation and will of Albanians to vote on election. So vary election from another pretty much.

i__w

08-26-2013, 02:06 PM

Depends from participation and will of Albanians to vote on election. So vary election from another pretty much.

it can be, e.g. in Jegugonvce municipality in 2005 local election, the race went in second round with Albanian candidate receivign 43% of votes. this year for this municipality Albanian vote was low. What is known for sure is that in case of elections Macedonian participation is much higher with peaks reaching 85-95% like in Struga and Kercova this year, meanwhile Albanian participation for this two municipalities was around 55-60%

p.s. found it... parliamentary election 2008 Cucer Sandevo Albanian parties ~45%

page 88

http://www.sec.mk/arhiva/2008_predvremeniparlamentarni/fajlovi/rez_konecni/Konecni03072008poopstini.pdf

i__w

08-26-2013, 02:26 PM

Some results of last 2011 greek census

http://www.enetenglish.gr/?i=news.en.society&id=1413

situation is not that good, greece need to work on the situation.

......total non-Greek population living in Greece amounts to 911,929 people.

Albanian nationals (480,824, or 53%) form the largest group of non-Greek citizens, followed by Bulgarians (75,915), Romanians (46,523) and Pakistanis (34,177).

..........

Where Greece's foreigners are from: the top 16 groups, 2011

Albania 480,824
Bulgaria 75,915
Romania 46,523
Pakistan 34,177
Georgia 27,400
Ukraine 17,006
United Kingdom 15,386
Cyprus 14,446
Poland 14,145
Russian Federation 13,807
India 11,333
Bangladesh 11,076
Germany 10,778
Egypt 10,455
Moldova 10,391
Philippines 9,804
Other countries/Unknown/Undefined 108,436

and average age of population living in Greece is 41.9 years

http://www.statistics.gr/portal/page/portal/ESYE/BUCKET/A1602/PressReleases/A1602_SAM01_DT_DC_00_2011_03_F_EN.PDF

The Illyrian Warrior

08-26-2013, 07:30 PM

The Illyrian Warrior

08-26-2013, 07:58 PM

iNird

08-26-2013, 09:56 PM

I do suggest more technical schools. Even the Germans have accepted the folly of Universities over technical schools lately, and they are suffering from a lack of qualified technicians lately. Let's face it, many of the theoretical sciences that people teach at schools today are only good for blabbering on the Apricity and other relevant forums. Entire faculties like Economics, Sociology and Theology are a total scum and an absolute waste of money...

I probably agree with your point and the university degree has become worthless to the point that every other unemployed person in FYROM has a masters in soft science that you are describing. The situation is probably the same all over the Balkans. But the solution you are suggesting is one in an equal society for all. FYROM does not provide equal institutions for all it's citizens in terms of government expenditures and one example would be education. Without fixing the above issue, real issues like the one you mentioned will never be solved.

Bugarash 1893

08-26-2013, 10:29 PM

Serbia-village population

Births-Deaths

2003: 31.057 - 52.129
2004: 30.188 - 51.619
2005: 25.426 - 51.834
2006: 24.596 - 49.811
2007: 23.326 - 49.336
2008: 23.694 - 49.928
2009: 23.403 - 49.766
2010: 21.620 - 49.389
2011: 20.168 - 48.807
2012: 21.388 - 48.522

Bugarash 1893

08-26-2013, 11:47 PM

Petros Houhoulis

08-27-2013, 12:03 PM

I probably agree with your point and the university degree has become worthless to the point that every other unemployed person in FYROM has a masters in soft science that you are describing. The situation is probably the same all over the Balkans. But the solution you are suggesting is one in an equal society for all. FYROM does not provide equal institutions for all it's citizens in terms of government expenditures and one example would be education. Without fixing the above issue, real issues like the one you mentioned will never be solved.

Well, in Greece the problem is that we don't have enough technical education, and we spend very little of research. Nevertheless, the Greek universities provide decent mathematicians and a lot of other - mostly theoretical - scientists. There was even enough technical education to let me become a decent electronic for working on ship electronics - which is a very complex and demanding job. Of course all of this started for me and everybody else in the elementary school: If you don't strive, you don't get good grades, and no amount of pleading can save you. Entrance at universities and higher technical schools is dependent upon a common exam taking place simultaneously all over Greece. Nevertheless, our technical mastery is limited because workbenches and stuff are expensive to buy, while the theoretical schools require nothing except for books.

Of course the major problem since day one was that the Yugoslavs did never allow any Albanians to advance in Yugoslavia, and the only way to improve your situation was by rebellion. In contrast, Greece not only allowed the Arvanites to raise in the ranks of the Greek society, but had no problem seeing them reach the top. When we booted our king for the second time in our history, an Arvanite, Pavlos Kountouriotis, became the first president of the second Greek republic. Ironically, he fell from power because of the coup of another Arvanite, Theodoros Pangalos, whose grandson was our foreign minister a few years ago. Kountouriotis got re-elected to the Greek presidency a few years later, and a few years ago he was declared the most competent naval commander of the 20th century during a gathering of naval officers all over the world - to the dismay of the Turks, who were annihilated by Kountouriotis...

...And this explains why the Arvanites are fervent Greeks to this day. They had no problem with Greece, neither Greece had a problem with them, save for the short reign of dictator Metaxas...

In your case, even today people do not get in power due to talent, but merely due to political connections, and when these political connections are firmly entangled to ethnic divides, the situation is as much ugly as you describe. Despite the agreements, and the political cohabitation in government, there is no cohabitation in society, and not even a hint at equality...

...Of course politics still plays a major role in the Greek society, and political connections play some role. Yet, since a couple of decades ago the hiring in the public sector in Greece depends upon your qualifications as well, and there are exams to get to the public sector. Greece has advanced quite a lot in this respect...

Pleurat

08-27-2013, 12:16 PM

[QUOTE=Bugarash 1893;1852580]New mosque in Glumovo village,Saraj municipality-western entrance of Skopje

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/154793_378515165571583_1239141184_n.jpg

Who are these turks?

The Illyrian Warrior

08-27-2013, 12:57 PM

New mosque in Glumovo village,Saraj municipality-western entrance of Skopje

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/480718_385106441579122_661671472_n.jpg

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss353/KarahunovAerodrom/90473258_zpsb888468c.jpg

New home for mullah don arab. :D

The Illyrian Warrior

08-27-2013, 12:58 PM

Grizzly

08-27-2013, 01:54 PM

New home for mullah don arab. :D

Don Mullah :eek:

Petros Houhoulis

08-27-2013, 02:52 PM

Some results of last 2011 greek census

http://www.enetenglish.gr/?i=news.en.society&id=1413

situation is not that good, greece need to work on the situation.

and average age of population living in Greece is 41.9 years

http://www.statistics.gr/portal/page/portal/ESYE/BUCKET/A1602/PressReleases/A1602_SAM01_DT_DC_00_2011_03_F_EN.PDF

We are working Pseudo-Kallisthenes argument as placed in the mouth of Alexander the Great at them:

It is my wish, now that wars are coming to an end, that you should all be happy in peace.

From now on, let all mortals live as one people, in fellowship, for the good of all. See the whole world as your homeland, with laws common to all, where the best will govern regardless of their race. Unlike the narrow minded, I make no distinction between Greeks and Barbarians.

The origin of citizens, or the race into which they were born, is of no concern to me. I have only one criterion by which to distinguish their virtue.

For me any good foreigner is a Greek and any bad Greek is worse than a barbarian. If disputes ever occur among you, you will not resort to weapons but will solve them in peace. If need be, I shall arbitrate between you.

See God not as an autocratic despot, but as the common father of all and thus your conduct will be like the lives of brothers within the same family.

I on my part, see you all as equal, whether you are white or dark-skinned. And I should like you not simply to be subjects of my Commonwealth, but members of it, partners of it.

To the best of my ability, I shall strive to do what I have promised.

Keep as a symbol of love this oath which we have taken tonight with our libations.

A notable increase in the number of "Arvanites" should be expected within the coming decades...

Anyway. Many of these Albanians are still fleeing Greece because of the crisis. Their number should be >100.000 fewer by now...

Alexq

08-28-2013, 08:13 AM

New mosque in Glumovo village,Saraj municipality-western entrance of Skopje

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/154793_378515165571583_1239141184_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/480718_385106441579122_661671472_n.jpg

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss353/KarahunovAerodrom/90473258_zpsb888468c.jpg

"In this new holly shrine, the new "peacuful" warriors will be taught and encouraged to go to Syria and fight for the muslim brotherhood...kill Asad cause he is isnt muslim, and he uses chemical weapons to kill muslims." - words that come out of the Imams of such new houses with huge rockets in macedonia

mandi

08-28-2013, 11:28 AM

"In this new holly shrine, the new "peacuful" warriors will be taught and encouraged to go to Syria and fight for the muslim brotherhood...kill Asad cause he is isnt muslim, and he uses chemical weapons to kill muslims." - words that come out of the Imams of such new houses with huge rockets in macedonia
I see you very well, when the question is islam...
Bc are those Imams that encourages the albanian people to do more children and so increases the number of albanian..
Because are those Imams to encurage albos to marry muslim people im macedonia and not marry slavic orthodox, and so again resulting in increasing of albos and also not marrying macedonians they are protected from loosing their language..in oposition with their brothers in blood in Reka who are not any more albos but are transmuted in macedonians.
Because are those Imams to protect their families from degeneration...in oposition from macedonians where the divorce is in maximum and also the abort bc of illegal intercourses.
I see u very well

i__w

08-28-2013, 11:33 AM

We are working Pseudo-Kallisthenes argument as placed in the mouth of Alexander the Great at them:

A notable increase in the number of "Arvanites" should be expected within the coming decades...

Anyway. Many of these Albanians are still fleeing Greece because of the crisis. Their number should be >100.000 fewer by now...

it's a good approach. Hopefully it will be the approach from all greeks.
I don't think Albanians will pose any threat to the greek society, probably they count more in case we calculate those with greek citizenship and children born in Greece, but they are able to integrate themself in greek life probably also from similarities between greeks and albanians.
The problem in the future will come from newcomers from asia and africa.
Another problem is the one of an ageing population, ~42years medium age today but in case we include only greeks it should be aorund 45years.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-28-2013, 01:49 PM

Bugarash 1893

08-28-2013, 05:32 PM

Skopje,primary students according to ethnicity 2011/2012

Macedonians: 29,407 = 54,6% of the total
Albanians: 17,112 = 31,8%
Roma: 4,442 = 8,2%
Turks: 1095 = 2,0%
Bosniaks: 853 = 1,5%
Serbs: 425 = 0,7%

City population according to the 2002 census

Macedonians: 338,358 = 66.7%
Albanians: 103,891 = 20.4%
Roma: 23,475 = 4.6%
Serbs: 14,298 = 2.8%
Turks: 8,595 = 1.7%
Bosniaks: 7,585 = 1.5%

Don Arb

08-28-2013, 06:18 PM

[QUOTE=Pleurat;1854105]

Don't offend Albanians just because of religion, you stupid. :picard1:

THose hoxhallars need a bullet in their heads, they were UDB agents before and now they are Gruevskis agents to controle muslim albos, everybody knows that.

By the way nice mosques I like them in turkish style better.

Skerdilaid

08-28-2013, 06:32 PM

THose hoxhallars need a bullet in their heads, they were UDB agents before and now they are Gruevskis agents to controle muslim albos, everybody knows that.

By the way nice mosques I like them in turkish style better.
This is very true!

In Kosova during the Yugo regime they even brought Hoxha's from Russia to indoctrinate people, so they don't get educated but follow their madrasa schooling.

I say shoot them in point blank then think it out.

The Illyrian Warrior

08-28-2013, 06:40 PM

it's a good approach. Hopefully it will be the approach from all greeks.
I don't think Albanians will pose any threat to the greek society, probably they count more in case we calculate those with greek citizenship and children born in Greece, but they are able to integrate themself in greek life probably also from similarities between greeks and albanians.
The problem in the future will come from newcomers from asia and africa.
Another problem is the one of an ageing population, ~42years medium age today but in case we include only greeks it should be aorund 45years.

Can't understand why your so preoccupied with greek demographics?!!!

Don Arb

08-28-2013, 06:41 PM

This is very true!

In Kosova during the Yugo regime they even brought Hoxha's from Russia to indoctrinate people, so they don't get educated but follow their madrasa schooling.

I say shoot them in point blank then think it out.

They still do it now. and look at the result, Illyrian Worrier complitly brainwashed muslo from this hoxhallars :D

Alexq

08-29-2013, 03:12 AM

I see you very well, when the question is islam...
Bc are those Imams that encourages the albanian people to do more children and so increases the number of albanian..
Because are those Imams to encurage albos to marry muslim people im macedonia and not marry slavic orthodox, and so again resulting in increasing of albos and also not marrying macedonians they are protected from loosing their language..in oposition with their brothers in blood in Reka who are not any more albos but are transmuted in macedonians.
Because are those Imams to protect their families from degeneration...in oposition from macedonians where the divorce is in maximum and also the abort bc of illegal intercourses.
I see u very well

That is what you think...nobody like rockets in this world, building more rockets will lead into WW3, where nukes will fall on mecca and medina...

mandi

08-29-2013, 11:49 AM

That is what you think...nobody like rockets in this world, building more rockets will lead into WW3, where nukes will fall on mecca and medina...
Me interests my country, my nation in macedonia, and i want that those people remain albanians and not transmutted in macedonians, and i see that those mosques are our cover against macedonian identity and modern assimilation, as it happened with all albanians who were ortodox there and with all albanians in greece, italy and all over the world after 90, who got assimilated.

Alexq

08-29-2013, 12:01 PM

Me interests my country, my nation in macedonia, and i want that those people remain albanians and not transmutted in macedonians, and i see that those mosques are our cover against macedonian identity and modern assimilation, as it happened with all albanians who were ortodox there and with all albanians in greece, italy and all over the world after 90, who got assimilated.

They should get integrated in Macedonian society and be Macedonians in future, cause they are born here and spent all their life. Speaking their language at home, or having different religion doesnt matter. Those people were born here, as their fathers, so there is nothing to do with the country Albania...

iNird

08-29-2013, 12:40 PM

mandi

08-29-2013, 07:22 PM

They should get integrated in Macedonian society and be Macedonians in future, cause they are born here and spent all their life. Speaking their language at home, or having different religion doesnt matter. Those people were born here, as their fathers, so there is nothing to do with the country Albania...

I think they never will be as you want, because they are in their lands from milleniums, many times before you...and now they are under occupation..in one state that isnt theirs, because they dont feel as their own, and also this state doesnt feel them as its citiziens.
If would be a really democracy and freedom...if would be a referendum they would selected as their state Albania..so forget they will be integrated with force under your state..its impossible..it doesnt function with albos..and in their side is also islam, who inspirites them to stay stronger as albanians and not even think a time to feel as macedonians.
the future of fyrom is division.

Alexq

08-29-2013, 11:19 PM

dafuq is a macedonian? If you mean anyone born in FYROM/Macedonia then sure...Macedonian by nationality. if you mean it is to completely deny your bulgarian roots and think of yourselves as this separate unique nation that derives from Alexander's nut sacks? Then no.

there is no "bulgarian roots" you idiot...many people in bulgaria have macedonian roots instead, people from here went there, not the opposite... dafuq is a shiptar btw?

Alexq

08-29-2013, 11:21 PM

hahah maybe the process will be slow...but will happen eventually.

iNird

08-29-2013, 11:21 PM

there is no "bulgarian roots" you idiot...many people in bulgaria have macedonian roots instead, people from here went there, not the opposite... dafuq is a shiptar btw?

Idk what a shiptar is either. Maybe you meant Shqiptar.

Pleurat

08-29-2013, 11:21 PM

there is no "bulgarian roots" you idiot...many people in bulgaria have macedonian roots instead, people from here went there, not the opposite... dafuq is a shiptar btw?

The one who fucks your mother.

Crn Volk

08-30-2013, 12:43 AM

Me interests my country, my nation in macedonia, and i want that those people remain albanians and not transmutted in macedonians, and i see that those mosques are our cover against macedonian identity and modern assimilation, as it happened with all albanians who were ortodox there and with all albanians in greece, italy and all over the world after 90, who got assimilated.

islam is not popular at the moment and is both your greatest friend as you say, but it is also your enemy. it keeps you dumb and uneducated (especially females) and portrays you as allies of al qaeda and the taliban, thereby making it hard for you to gain western support for ilirida

iNird

08-30-2013, 02:31 AM

Who are the two albo tosk in your signature sokol?

Krampus

08-30-2013, 02:33 AM

there is no "bulgarian roots" you idiot...many people in bulgaria have macedonian roots instead, people from here went there, not the opposite... dafuq is a shiptar btw?

A shiptar doesn't exist. Perhaps you meant a Shqiptar?
Edit: iNird literally said the same thing. fuck. Thought it was gonna be a pretty good joke.

alb0zfinest

08-30-2013, 03:11 AM

Who are the two albo tosk in your signature sokol?

Just some people he has a crush on :D

Petros Houhoulis

08-30-2013, 04:18 PM

Me interests my country, my nation in makedonishtan, and i want that those people remain albanians and not transmutted into makedonishtanis, and i see that those mosques are our cover against macedonian identity and modern assimilation, as it happened with all albanians who were ortodox there and with all albanians in greece, italy and all over the world after 90, who got assimilated.

The only way to stop asssimilation is to boost the quality of your culture, not increase the quantity of the mosques and preachers, because in the era of the internet, the mosques and the preachers are pretty much useless...

mandi

08-30-2013, 06:42 PM

The only way to stop asssimilation is to boost the quality of your culture, not increase the quantity of the mosques and preachers, because in the era of the internet, the mosques and the preachers are pretty much useless...
What do you want here in a macedonian forum..in macedonia are not even 1000 greeks..while albanians are 600 thousands.
so please go and coment in greeks forum..or better in turkish forum..
and i didnt say in my coment..macedonishtan..but macedonia..so dont miscorrect my words.

Petros Houhoulis

08-30-2013, 06:53 PM

What do you want here in an Albanian forum..in East Albania are not even 1000 Greeks..while Albanians are 600 thousands.
so please go and coment in Greek forum..or better in Albanian forum.
and i didnt say in my coment..Macedonishtan..but East Albania..so dont miscorrect my words.

I agree! This is East Albania indeed!

Skerdilaid

08-30-2013, 06:58 PM

mandi

08-30-2013, 08:43 PM

I agree! This is East Albania indeed!
You are continuing changing my words..
But if its better for you so..ok for me no problem.

mandi

08-30-2013, 08:48 PM

Watch out because you might turn Turk in the process though.......
Dont worry.. being muslim doesnt mean changing your nationality.
If it has happened as you wish..it has happened to other ortodox albanians in greece, i mean in thesprotia prefecture..in Reka macedonia..and also in montenegro, to cuchi tribes in medievo..but never to muslims..they have remained strongly albanian..only a blind mind cant understand and watch this FACT.

Skerdilaid

08-30-2013, 08:49 PM

Dont worry.. being muslim doesnt mean changing your nationality.
If it has happened as you wish..it has happened to other ortodox albanians in greece, i mean in thesprotia prefecture..in Reka macedonia..and also in montenegro, to cuchi tribes in medievo..but never to muslims..they have remained strongly albanian..only a blind mind cant understand and watch this FACT.

How about the ones that call themselves Turk now days, did you forget about them or the millions in Turkey?

mandi

08-30-2013, 09:00 PM

How about the ones that call themselves Turk now days, did you forget about them or the millions in Turkey?
I think what you are talking about is out the forum topics.. lets talk better the albanians in macedonia..and the future of country better than go out subject

Skerdilaid

08-30-2013, 09:09 PM

I think what you are talking about is out the forum topics.. lets talk better the albanians in macedonia..and the future of country better than go out subject

No. I was talking about the Albanians in Macedonia!

Why not invest in education and improve the standard of living among the Albanian communities but instead you suggest investing in Mosques like the Yugoslavs did?

mandi

08-30-2013, 09:16 PM

No. I was talking about the Albanians in Macedonia!

Why not invest in education and improve the standard of living among the Albanian communities but instead you suggest investing in Mosques like the Yugoslavs did?
Did you hear me to be against albanian schools in macedonia..or against standart of life.. :eek:
the religion is one thing and school or economy another thing...but all are in interes of albanians there.
And dont forget that the albanian language is being gradually the language of some non albanians comunities there..i mean slowly but gradually..as torbesh and in future i am sure..turks and roma people..in opposition with ortodox albanians who speak macedonian today and forever..:picard2:

The Illyrian Warrior

08-30-2013, 09:27 PM

They still do it now. and look at the result, Illyrian Worrier complitly brainwashed muslo from this hoxhallars :D

Don't mention my name mjekrrosh cause I at least don't follow hoxha's in ass like you do. :D

Shame wild people like you made our soft hoxha's like monsters nowadays. :bored:

The Illyrian Warrior

08-31-2013, 10:46 AM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Map_of_Demir_Hisar_Municipality.svg

CBR by ethnicity in Demir Hisar

Macedonians = 5.7 CBR - 53 births (2012)
Albanians = 30.1 CBR - 7 births (2012)

Census 2002
Macedonian = 9,179 (96.7%)
Albanians = 232 (2.4%)

Here makos have one of most negative birth rate in macedonia, in other side Albos have quite high birth rate....But makos still makes up absolute majority in municipality.

alb0zfinest

09-01-2013, 10:05 PM

What do you want here in a macedonian forum..in macedonia are not even 1000 greeks..while albanians are 600 thousands.
so please go and coment in greeks forum..or better in turkish forum..
and i didnt say in my coment..macedonishtan..but macedonia..so dont miscorrect my words.

IF he wants to post in the Macedonian sub-forum he is free to do so.

He has a point too (for the first time ever :D jk). Building mosques won't help anyone, but radicalize the Albanian population in Macedonia. And also turn some of our allies against us.

The Illyrian Warrior

09-01-2013, 10:18 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Map_of_Kru%C5%A1evo_Municipality.svg

CBR by ethnicity in Krusevo

2012
Macedonians (incl. Vlachs) = 5.0 CBR - 36 births
Albanians = 26.3 CBR - 55 births

Census 2002
Macedonians = 6,081 (62.8%)
Albanians = 2,089 (21.5%)
Vlachs = 1,020 (10.5%)
others.

The Illyrian Warrior

09-01-2013, 10:33 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Map_of_Ki%C4%8Devo_Municipality.svg

CBR by ethnicity in Uskana/Kicevo

2012
Macedonians = 7.7 CBR - 157 births
Albanians = 6.6 CBR - 189 births

Census 2002
Albanians = 30,927 (54.51%)
Macedonians = 20,278 (35.74%)
Turks = 2,998 (5.28%)
Roma = 1,631 (2.87%)
others = 900 (1.59%)

Here is a bit tricky because large Torbeshi population register in births as macedonian, but overall Albanian birth rate is definitively higher.

The Illyrian Warrior

09-01-2013, 10:42 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Map_of_Kumanovo_Municipality.svg

CBR by ethnicity in Kumanova

2012
Macedonians (Incl. Serbs) = 10.0 CBR - 729 births
Albanians = 16.9 CBR - 462 births

Census 2002
Macedonians = 63,746 (60.4%)
Albanians = 27,290 (25.8%)
Serbs = 9,062 (8.6%)
Roma = 4,256 (4.1%)
Turks = 292 (0.28%)
Vlachs = 147 (0.10%)
others = 691 (0.62%)

Bugarash 1893

09-02-2013, 11:22 PM

First grade students in primary school

2000/2001: 29,956
2013/2014: 20,774

1/3 decrease in just 10 years...

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 12:18 PM

Vasilevo,surprising for Macedonians,eh?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Map_of_Vasilevo_Municipality.svg/744px-Map_of_Vasilevo_Municipality.svg.png

Macedonians: 9,958 = 82.2%
Turks: 2,095 = 17.3%

Births/Deaths 2008-2012

Macedonians

124/73 = 65,6% of the total number of births
129/90 = 72,8%
114/97 = 58,1%
113/106 = 66,0%
110/87 = 63,9%

Turks

63/13 = 33,3%
44/12 = 24,8%
81/9 = 41,3%
57/14 = 33,3%
56/13 = 32,5%

Btw the mistery why Macedonians in Vasilevo,Strumica and Bosilovo municipalities are doing so well is solved.:)

The Illyrian Warrior

09-03-2013, 03:12 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Map_of_Gostivar_Municipality.svg
CBR by ethnicity in Gostivar

2012
Macedonians = 9.8 CBR / 157 births
Albanians = 8.6 CBR / 465 births
Turks = 6.5 CBR / 52 births

Census 2002
Albanians = 54,038 (66.7%)
Macedonians = 15,877 (19.6%)
Turks = 7,991 (9.9%)
Roma = 2,237 (2.8%)
others.

Interesting in Gostivar the mako CBR is higher than albanian one for 2012.

The Illyrian Warrior

09-03-2013, 03:19 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Map_of_Tetovo_Municipality.svg
CBR by ethnicity in Tetova

2012
Macedonians = 9.8 CBR / 198 births
Albanians = 13.9 CBR / 851 births

Census 2002
Albanians - 60,886 (70.3%)
Macedonians - 20,053 (23.2%)
Roma - 2,357 (2.7%)
Turks - 1,882 (2.2%)
Serbs - 604 (0.7%)
Bosniaks - 156 (0.2%)
Others - 642 (0.7%)

The Illyrian Warrior

09-03-2013, 03:30 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Map_of_Resen_Municipality.svg
CBR by ethnicity in Prespa/Resen

2012
Macedonians = 7.5 CBR / 96 births
Albanians = 14.3 CBR / 22 births
Turks = 6.1 CBR / 11 births

Census 2002
Macedonians = 12,798 (76.1%)
Turks = 1,797 (10.7%)
Albanians = 1,536 (9.1%)
Roma = 184 (1.1%)
others.

The Illyrian Warrior

09-03-2013, 03:46 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Map_of_Bitola_Municipality.svg
CBR by ethnicity in Manastir/Bitola

2012
Macedonians = 7.3 CBR / 691 births
Albanians = 15.8 CBR / 67 births

Census 2002
Macedonians = 94,538 (89.4%)
Albanians = 4,219 (3.9%)
Roma = 2,619 (2.4%)
Turks = 1,866 (1.7%)
others.

The Illyrian Warrior

09-03-2013, 03:58 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Map_of_Struga_Municipality.svg
CBR by ethnicity in Struga

2012
Macedonians = 11.9 CBR / 242 births
Albanians = 8.4 CBR / 303 births

Census 2002
Albanians = 36,029 (56.8%)
Macedonians = 20,336 (32%)
Turks = 3,628 (5.7%)
others.

Like Kicevo here many torbeshis are register as "macedonian" in births stats, so practically the Albanian CBR is higher.

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 03:58 PM

Interesting in Gostivar the mako CBR is higher than albanian one for 2012.

Its not higher,rather the number of Albanians in Gostivar is lower than in the census in 2002.
Many Albanians abroad were counted as residents back then,especially in Gostivar.

Plus 2012 was catastrophic for Albanians in Gostivar,probably the worst so far.
While Macedonians currently are using the max of their fertility base.

The Illyrian Warrior

09-03-2013, 04:05 PM

Its not higher,rather the number of Albanians in Gostivar is lower than in the census in 2002.
Many Albanians abroad were counted as residents back then,especially in Gostivar.

Yeah i agree that you can't rely on 2002 stats but still better than none.

Plus 2012 was catastrophic for Albanians in Gostivar,probably the worst so far.
While Macedonians currently are using the max of their fertility base.

Yes indeed it was catastrophic, don't know why maybe you can tell us more about this?!

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 04:20 PM

Yes indeed it was catastrophic, don't know why maybe you can tell us more about this?!

Number of births abroad to parents from Gostivar

http://prikachi.com/images/971/6519971x.png

http://prikachi.com/images/973/6519973h.png

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 09:19 PM

Macedonian primary school students

2006/2007: 122,016 = 53,4% share of the total
2007/2008: 118,507 = 53,6^%
2008/2009: 115,605 = 53,7%
2009/2010: 112,293 = 53,7%
2010/2011: 109,765 = 54,3%
2011/2012: 107,564 = 54,3%

The Illyrian Warrior

09-03-2013, 09:22 PM

Macedonian primary school students

Albanian one??

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 09:45 PM

Albanian one??

2006/2007: 78,467 = 34,3%
2007/2008: 75,141 = 34,0%
2008/2009: 72,570 = 33,7%
2009/2010: 69,922 = 33,4%
2010/2011: 66,156 = 32,7%
2011/2012: 65,085 = 32,8%

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 10:58 PM

Skopje region (City of Skopje + surrounding municipalities)-the demographics motor of the Albanians in Macedonia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Map_of_the_municipalities_of_Skopje_Statistical_Re gion_en.svg/744px-Map_of_the_municipalities_of_Skopje_Statistical_Re gion_en.svg.png

According to the 2002 census:

Macedonians: 367,413 = 63.6%
Albanians 133,893 = 23.2%
Roma: 23,903 = 4.1%
Serbs: 18,051 = 3.1%
Turks: 12,123 = 2.1%
Bosniaks: 10,880 = 1.9%

Births-Deaths 2008-2012

Macedonians

3691-3789 = 48,5% share of the total births
3763-3769 = 48,0%
3840-3833 = 47,2%
3636-3820 = 46,5%
3731-3940 = 46,6%

Albanians

2722-783 = 35,8%
2768-793 = 35,3%
3095-778 = 38,0%
2966-796 = 37,9%
3140-911 = 39,2%

Roma

682-188 = 8,9%
742-212 = 9,4%
727-199 = 8,9%
671-216 = 8,5%
640-238 = 8,0%

Serbs

59-131 = 0,7%
75-118 = 0,9%
53-162 = 0,6%
50-172 = 0,6%
61-185 = 0,7%

Turks

167-46 = 2,1%
173-56 = 2,2%
122-48 = 1,4%
158-53 = 2,0%
164-67 = 2,0%

Bosniaks

136-50 = 1,7%
147-59 = 1,8%
146-59 = 1,7%
141-59 = 1,8%
166-73 = 2,0%

Pleurat

09-03-2013, 11:00 PM

Albanians are increasing fast there, but I have some doubts.....if they are all pure ethnic albanians or hybrids with gypsy or torbesh mother or grandmother....

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 11:05 PM

Albanians are increasing fast there, but I have some doubts.....if they are all pure ethnic albanians or hybrids with gypsy or torbesh mother or grandmother....

In Skopje region there are Torbesh only in Studenicani municipality,but they declare to be Turks.
Gypsies and Albanians dont have such contacts.

Pleurat

09-03-2013, 11:07 PM

In Skopje region there are Torbesh only in Studenicani municipality,but they declare to be Turks.
Gypsies and Albanians dont have such contacts.

I see so many dark faces in those so called '' albanian '' islamic protests there.....what are they?

Bugarash 1893

09-03-2013, 11:15 PM

I see so many dark faces in those so called '' albanian '' islamic protests there.....what are they?

They arent Gypsies for sure.
Trust me,Im from Skopje and I know the situation well.

There were 3,713 Ashkalis on the 2002 census in all of Macedonia,they do speak Albanian.
Maybe you saw a few Ashkali faces,but they are a tiny community,so who knows.

Pleurat

09-03-2013, 11:21 PM

They arent Gypsies for sure.
Trust me,Im from Skopje and I know the situation well.

There were 3,713 Ashkalis on the 2002 census in all of Macedonia,they do speak Albanian.
Maybe you saw a few Ashkali faces,but they are a tiny community,so who knows.

loool the guy with the pink blouse who screams is not evan a ashkali, but a roma, what the fuck???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9_yZF_K3xI

i__w

09-04-2013, 09:37 PM

iNird

09-04-2013, 09:45 PM

loool the guy with the pink blouse who screams is not evan a ashkali, but a roma, what the fuck???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9_yZF_K3xI

That guy isn't roma Kastriot.....

Some of these wannabe Jihadist with beards give off a swarthier look. The Albanians from Shkup do not differ much from other Albanian Gegs. In dialect, they sound like Kosovars to me and differ alot from even Tetovars that are not that far from them.

i__w

09-04-2013, 09:50 PM

Can't understand why your so preoccupied with greek demographics?!!!

why not we, can say a couple of words what is happening around Balkan without damaging the thread.
E.g. with next census that will be held next month in Bosnia. I think it is going to be very interesting to discuss the results, without opening the same threat for demographic trends everywhere.

by the way my guess is that population in BiH will not exceed 3.3mld people with below shares:

Bosnian 52-55%
Serbs 30-33%
Croats 11-13%

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 09:55 PM

That guy isn't roma Kastriot.....

Some of these wannabe Jihadist with beards give off a swarthier look. The Albanians from Shkup do not differ much from other Albanian Gegs. In dialect, they sound like Kosovars to me and differ alot from even Tetovars that are not that far from them.

Are you fucking kidding with me that the guy with the pink blouse is not roma???? He is looks like Yemeni.....

i__w

09-04-2013, 09:59 PM

Are you fucking kidding with me that the guy with the pink blouse is not roma???? He is looks like Yemeni.....

and what is wrong with that?!!!

iNird

09-04-2013, 09:59 PM

Are you fucking kidding with me that the guy with the pink blouse is not roma???? He is looks like Yemeni.....

Kastrioti stick to taking your pills.

and what is wrong with that?!!!

It's not like Yemenis and Roma overlap much, yemeni are SSA influenced while Roma are not IMO. But the guy (Pleurat) is a bit out of his mind. Sometimes it's good and other times well you can guess what it is.

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 10:00 PM

Kastrioti stick to taking your pills.

You are an idiot who accepts romas as albanians.

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 10:00 PM

and what is wrong with that?!!!

well you are probably brown so you have no problem with that

i__w

09-04-2013, 10:02 PM

You are an idiot who accepts romas as albanians.

lol you decide who is an Albanian and who isn't?

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 10:07 PM

For example here it is OK, some fine noble Dinarid, CM, and Norid albos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kexp108Wtpc

i__w

09-04-2013, 10:07 PM

well you are probably brown so you have no problem with that

if I was like that I would be proud to be, but indeed it doesn't matter to me at all.

a big number of Albanians I know are like that guy and probably most of you relatives and there is nothing wrong.
get some distance from "superiority" (inferiority) complex

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 10:09 PM

if I was like that I would be proud to be, but indeed it doesn't matter to me at all.

a big number of Albanians I know are like that guy and probably most of you relatives and there is nothing wrong.
get some distance from "superiority" (inferiority) complex

No, now I am very srz, very very srz.... you know albanians who look like the gypsy with the pink blouse???? The gypsy with the pink blouse who is screaming??? Probably you are a gypsy and there is no albanian who looks like the gypsy with the pink blouse.... what the fuck is happening with this fucking nation....

i__w

09-04-2013, 10:18 PM

No, now I am very srz, very very srz.... you know albanians who look like the gypsy with the pink blouse???? The gypsy with the pink blouse who is screaming??? Probably you are a gypsy and there is no albanian who looks like the gypsy with the pink blouse.... what the fuck is happening with this fucking nation....

yep number of Albanians with that look is considerable. You like it or not. In case you don't accept that fact you better create another race for "pure Albanians" :D

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 10:27 PM

yep number of Albanians with that look is considerable. You like it or not. In case you don't accept that fact you better create another race for "pure Albanians" :D

listen gypsy shit who speak albanians, no one single albanians looks like the nigger with the pink blouse in this video in the 0:11 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9_yZF_K3xI

this is a very meaningless debate

i__w

09-04-2013, 10:30 PM

listen gypsy shit who speak albanians, no one single albanians looks like the nigger with the pink blouse in this video in the 0:11 :

this is a very meaningless debate

Mayor of Chair (do a google search)
and go and kill yourself now :D

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 10:37 PM

Mayor of Chair (do a google search)
and go and kill yourself now :D

I didn't find anything gypsy.

Pjeter Pan

09-04-2013, 10:42 PM

listen gypsy shit who speak albanians, no one single albanians looks like the nigger with the pink blouse in this video in the 0:11 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9_yZF_K3xI

this is a very meaningless debate
I cant see his face so i dont know

i__w

09-04-2013, 10:44 PM

I didn't find anything gypsy.

that's the issue, depends of lens we use and when we use.
but that's ok. I see lot of racist comments among Albanians around here, and that should not come from people that have suffered so much from racism of others.

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 10:49 PM

I cant see his face so i dont know

His skin is enough to judge...... must be the gypsy in this photo.....

http://gdb.rferl.org/27AB98DF-60D3-4110-A2D4-E142E92D429D_mw1024_n_s.jpg

Pjeter Pan

09-04-2013, 11:01 PM

His skin is enough to judge...... must be the gypsy in this photo.....

http://gdb.rferl.org/27AB98DF-60D3-4110-A2D4-E142E92D429D_mw1024_n_s.jpg
Yea thats him same clothes and everything, your right he's probably a gypsy or ashkali, whats he doing there?

Pleurat

09-04-2013, 11:03 PM

Yea thats him same clothes and everything, your right he's a gypsy or ashkali, whats he doing there?

It is not just one, but tens, sometimes hundreds of ashkalis.... look at other photos in internet.... about your question, maybe our muslim brothers have affinities with the gypsies who knows....

Pjeter Pan

09-04-2013, 11:08 PM

It is not just one, but tens, sometimes hundreds of ashkalis.... look at other photos in internet.... about your question, maybe our muslim brothers have affinities with the gypsies who knows....
Yea in the video i saw a turkish flag and Arabic writing in some pictures. Their not my brothers if they keep that up.

Prengs

09-05-2013, 02:14 AM

Guys that protest was organised from Muslims, for the right of muslims. Not all of them are Albanians, non-Albanian muslims (Bosnaks, Torbesh, Turks, Gypsies, Ashkali ect) make 15-20% of Skopje.
Leave thene non-sense and back to topic.

Crn Volk

09-05-2013, 02:49 AM

Pjeter Pan

09-05-2013, 02:57 AM

15-20% wow! That doesn't leave much for albanian numbers with Macedonians making up 67%
Why do you have albanians in your signature???

Crn Volk

09-05-2013, 03:00 AM

Why do you have albanians in your signature???

what makes you think they're albanians?

Pjeter Pan

09-05-2013, 03:01 AM

what makes you think they're albanians?
The fustanella

iNird

09-05-2013, 03:04 AM

15-20% wow! That doesn't leave much for albanian numbers with Macedonians making up 67%

Well I'm not sure about the 20% figure but I get the feeling you have never been to Skopje if you think the Albanian presence is that insignificant.

Even Bugaresh's statistics show that Macedonian births are not even the absolute majority.

Crn Volk

09-05-2013, 03:04 AM

The fustanella

it was not only worn by albanians;

see some Macedonian folk costumes here;

http://macedonia.auburn.edu/folk-embroidery/malahova.php

Crn Volk

09-05-2013, 03:06 AM

Well I'm not sure about the 20% figure but I get the feeling you have never been to Skopje if you think the Albanian presence is that insignificant.

just quoting prengs figures...take it up with him

Pjeter Pan

09-05-2013, 03:07 AM

it was not only worn by albanians;

see some Macedonian folk costumes here;

http://macedonia.auburn.edu/folk-embroidery/malahova.php
Ah ok my bad

alb0zfinest

09-05-2013, 03:14 AM

I don't want to get into this whole thing between you guys. But that guy really doesn't look Albanian. I mean it's possible he's Albanian but he really doesn't look it.

iNird

09-05-2013, 03:17 AM

I don't want to get into this whole thing between you guys. But that guy really doesn't look Albanian. I mean it's possible he's Albanian but he really doesn't look it.

The guy in the pink is exotic probably Roma. In the video that was posted I only saw the back and the side view and he didn't look off but in the picture he posted it's clear he is not an "ethnic" Albanian.

Like I said before, sometimes Kastrioti is right with his rants.

:D

Pleurat

09-05-2013, 08:57 AM

just quoting prengs figures...take it up with him

The ones with fustanella are vlachs, because '' macedonians'' didn't exist 50 years ago.

Prengs

09-05-2013, 06:07 PM

15-20% wow! That doesn't leave much for albanian numbers with Macedonians making up 67%

I said about "Muslims in Skopje" not Macedonia and other religions here do not belong in the counting but just muslims in overall.
15-20 % of muslims in Skopje are non-albanian.

Bugarash 1893

09-06-2013, 04:28 AM

Skopje region

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Map_of_the_municipalities_of_Skopje_Statistical_Re gion_en.svg/744px-Map_of_the_municipalities_of_Skopje_Statistical_Re gion_en.svg.png

Students in primary school 2011/2012

Macedonians: 32.225 = 50,7%
Albanians: 22.775 = 35,8%

Bugarash 1893

09-07-2013, 12:40 AM

Some tend not to count the municipality of Saraj as part of the city of Skopje,so lets see how things are without it...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_en.svg/580px-Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_en.svg.png

Close-up on the Albanians in Skopje,minus Saraj

According to the 2002 census: 15,1% share of the total population
Primary school students 2011/2012: 24,6%
Share among births 2012: 27,1%

Hardcore.:D
Even the large influx of Macedonians from the countryside cant break the Albanezi.

i__w

09-08-2013, 07:47 PM

there is a number of municipalities in Macedonian that is facing a demographic collapse.
Number of births is so small that is becoming worthless for them to exist.

number one among this municipalities was held by Vraneshtica municipality that no longer exist since last March.
current number one is municipality of Pehcevo:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Map_of_Peh%C4%8Devo_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Peh%C4%8Devo_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Pehcevo municipality data

Population

total - 5517
Macedonians - 85.9%
Turks - 6.5%
Roma - 7.1%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 26 - 70 (cbr 4.7!!!)
Macedonians 20 - 61 (cbr 4.2)
Turks 2 - 1
Roma 3 - 6

i__w

09-08-2013, 07:56 PM

Rosoman Municipality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Map_of_Rosoman_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Rosoman_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Rosoman municipality data

Population

total - 4141
Macedonians - 89.2%
Serbs - 9.9%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 27 - 64 (cbr 6.5)
Macedonians 22 - 55 (cbr 5.9)
Serbs 1 - 8

i__w

09-08-2013, 08:04 PM

Debarca municipality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Map_of_Debarca_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Debarca_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Debarca municipality data

Population

total - 5507
Macedonians - 96.7%
Albanians - 2.8%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 40 - 106 (cbr 7.2)
Macedonians 36 - 102 (cbr 6.7, cdr 19.2!!)
Albanians 3 - 4

i__w

09-08-2013, 08:18 PM

Staro Nagorichane municipality. This one is totally worthless to exist as it is, better to reunite with Kumanova as it was before 1996territorial organisation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Map_of_Staro_Nagori%C4%8Dane_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Staro_Nagori%C4%8Dane_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Staro Nagorichane municipality data

Population

total - 4840
Macedonians - 80.7%
Serbs - 19.1%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 42 - 92 (cbr 8.7, cdr 19.0 )
Macedonians 40 - 77 (cbr 10.2, cdr 19.7!!)
Serbs 1 - 15 (cbr 0.1 , cdr 16.2 )

Grizzly

09-08-2013, 08:18 PM

That's brutal^^. Probably due to the fact that only old people are left in the villages there

i__w

09-08-2013, 08:26 PM

Demir Hisar municipality,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Map_of_Demir_Hisar_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Demir_Hisar_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Demir Hisar municipality data

Population

total - 9497
Macedonians - 96.7%
Albanians - 2.4%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 60 - 143 (cbr 6.3, cdr 15.1 )
Macedonians 53 - 137 (cbr 5.8, cdr 14.9 )
Albanians 7 - 4

i__w

09-08-2013, 08:35 PM

Makedonski Brod municipality
this one should rejoin Plashnica municipality as it was before 1996 territorial organisation creating a turkish/torbesh majority municipality. As it is today population is concentrated only in town of Brod.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Map_of_Makedonski_Brod_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Makedonski_Brod_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Makedonski Brod municipality data

Population

total - 7141
Macedonians - 97.0%
Turks - 2.5%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 47 - 100 (cbr 6.6, cdr 14.0 )
Macedonians 41 - 99 (cbr 5.9, cdr 14.3 )
Turks 1 - 0

i__w

09-08-2013, 08:41 PM

That's brutal^^. Probably due to the fact that only old people are left in the villages there

yep and also result of Macedonian government policies.

we can notices that these municipalities cover big spaces over the country.

i__w

09-08-2013, 08:50 PM

Novaci Municipality. last thing 'new' here I guess is only the name.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Map_of_Novaci_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Novaci_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Novaci municipality data

Population

total - 3549
Macedonians - 98.3%
Others - 1.7%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 27 - 75 (cbr 7.6, cdr 21.1 !!!!! )
Macedonians 22 - 74 (cbr 6.3, cdr 21.2 !!!!! )
others 5 - 1

i__w

09-08-2013, 08:58 PM

Mogila municipality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Map_of_Mogila_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Mogila_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Mogila municipality data

Population

total - 6710
Macedonians - 95.9%
Turks - 3.4%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 66 - 85
Macedonians 53 - 84 (cbr 8.2)
Turks 7 - 0

i__w

09-08-2013, 09:05 PM

Zrnovci municipality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Map_of_Zrnovci_Municipality.svg/500px-Map_of_Zrnovci_Municipality.svg.png

Census 2002 Zrnovci municipality data

Population

total - 3264
Macedonians - 99.5%

Births/Deaths 2012

Total 26 - 51
Macedonians 26 - 51 (cbr 8.0, cdr 15.7 )

i__w

09-13-2013, 06:59 PM

This road connecting Tirana with Dibra e Madhe (Debar) definitely will connect economically west Macedonia with Tirana (driving distance will be in less than 1 hour)

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o230/bardhiDJ/harta_e_rruges_te_arberit.jpg

Construction is underway, but going very slow. At one point will be finished for sure. Albanian Macedonian community from Dibra(Debar) living in Tirana is the biggest in size, even bigger than the one of natives from Tirana. Lot of them will see this opportunity to go back to their ancestral land and re establish the lost connections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKXaB5HefCs

the road is known as "Rruga e Dibres" (Dibra Road), but also with the fancy name of "Rruga e Arbrit" (Arbri Road)

Bugarash 1893

09-15-2013, 12:57 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTUL4EdgcRY

Bugarash 1893

09-16-2013, 05:11 AM

As I said before,the Albanian demographic motor is now moved from Western Macedonia to the North-Central part.

http://prikachi.com/images/238/6566238D.png

Albanians according to the 2002 census: 198,250
Births 2012: 4424
Birth rate: 22,3 CBR

The.Mask

09-18-2013, 05:18 PM

the road is known as "Rruga e Dibres" (Dibra Road), but also with the fancy name of "Rruga e Arbrit" (Arbri Road)

This must be called "No border road" , "Rruga pa kufi" :D especially if the road Dibër - Kërçovë will be built and the highway Shkup-Prishtinë too. 3 capitals may be linked with good roads for the Albanians, and since all majors of Western FYROM are albanians everything can go well now... Ethnic Albania is comming guys!!!

i__w

09-18-2013, 10:02 PM

This must be called "No border road" , "Rruga pa kufi" :D especially if the road Dibër - Kërçovë will be built and the highway Shkup-Prishtinë too. 3 capitals may be linked with good roads for the Albanians, and since all majors of Western FYROM are albanians everything can go well now... Ethnic Albania is comming guys!!!

Do you know if this road is still on the plans of Macedonian government, because it's a while that I haven't heard of it?

The.Mask

09-19-2013, 12:00 PM

Do you know if this road is still on the plans of Macedonian government, because it's a while that I haven't heard of it?

This road is catastrophic and nothing in plan sadly...

Petros Houhoulis

09-19-2013, 12:05 PM

Do you know if this road is still on the plans of Makedonishtani government, because it's a while that I haven't heard of it?

They build statues and facades only...

Grizzly

09-19-2013, 09:30 PM

They build statues and facades only...

Not only that but we have a diversity of statues which accurately represents our ever changing and global world.

I present SKOPJE 2014!

http://us.123rf.com/450wm/Baloncici/Baloncici1306/Baloncici130600296/20511203-skopje-macedonia--september-17-swimmer-statue-in-skopje-on-september-17-2012-bronze-statue-of-swimme.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f6foqtpvrOs/S5bMPVilaDI/AAAAAAAAACM/ltvIpqvu8og/s320/Image0161.jpg

http://www.vagobond.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Photo1546.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY9sxGeVTmwPmSRa3whGy522w4zdjna ozdihxq1yMUewtz0YhC

http://cdn1.vtourist.com/4/4828502-Statues_Skopje.jpg

http://stophavingaboringlife.com/images/july11/bronze_statue_skopje.jpg

Skerdilaid

09-20-2013, 04:37 AM

Not only that but we have a diversity of statues which accurately represents our ever changing and global world.

I present SKOPJE 2014!

http://us.123rf.com/450wm/Baloncici/Baloncici1306/Baloncici130600296/20511203-skopje-macedonia--september-17-swimmer-statue-in-skopje-on-september-17-2012-bronze-statue-of-swimme.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f6foqtpvrOs/S5bMPVilaDI/AAAAAAAAACM/ltvIpqvu8og/s320/Image0161.jpg

http://www.vagobond.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Photo1546.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY9sxGeVTmwPmSRa3whGy522w4zdjna ozdihxq1yMUewtz0YhC

http://cdn1.vtourist.com/4/4828502-Statues_Skopje.jpg

http://stophavingaboringlife.com/images/july11/bronze_statue_skopje.jpg

What a fuck is that^^

Looks pretty freaky, what's the meaning of this this? Is this hinting that Shkup might become a ghost town?