Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans?

[Bugarash]

Latest statistics from macedonian statistical office

http://www.stat.gov.mk/Publikacii/Mak_Brojki_2012_A.pdf

Macedonia 2011 births-deaths


total: 22.770 - 19.465 = +3.305

''macedonians'' : 11.544 - 14.409 = -2.865

albanians : 7.727 - 3.198 = +4.529

roma : 1.574 - 495 = +1.079

turks : 1.046 - 474 = +574

bosniaks : 231 - 105 = +126

serbs : 111 - 423 = -312

vlachs : 22 - 70 = - 48

[Bugarash]

The last protests of albanians in the centre of Skopje in front of the government building

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%205_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%208_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%2018_2.jpg

[Bugarash]

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%2017_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%202_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%2012_2.jpg

[Bugarash]

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/protest%20pred%20vlada%20albanci%2004.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/protest%20pred%20vlada%20albanci%2007.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/protest%20pred%20vlada%20albanci%2008.jpg

[Bugarash]

Stones at the government building

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/Makedonia5000/image1-1.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_novo_1.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_vlada_prozori.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_policija_kamen.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_govornica.jpg

[Optimus]

hehe this will never happen.Albanians are barely keeping their current territory of Albania and Kosovo letalone aiming at the others one.Nice trolling buddy.

[Bugarash]

Many things that ''will never happen'' HAPPENED

just look back at the position of albanians in the early 1990's in Macedonia and look at it now.

albanians are taking over...which is sad that this is happening to the holy bulgar land of Macedonia.

[safinator]

No cheese for you, Bugarash.:)
Albanians throwed cheese at Government buildings.

[Optimus]

Many things that ''will never happen'' HAPPENED

just look back at the position of albanians in the early 1990's in Macedonia and look at it now.

albanians are taking over.
Which is sad that this is happening to the holy bulgar land of Macedonia.

That is because times change,i am not against giving them fair treatment but if these siptar savages try anything they will be deported where they belong= "Highlands of Albania".

[ChocolateFace]

the fake state of Macedonia is Albanian land. the name of Shkup has Albanian origin. and these figures provided also prove this.

[Bugarash]

That is because times change,i am not against giving them fair treatment but if these siptar savages try anything they will be deported where they belong= "Highlands of Albania".

The usual forum talk:rolleyes2:

They stoned the government building,what else do they have to do for you to ''deport them''?:D

Macedonia is a weak,small and poor state and sadly can't do anything against the albanians within and the two albanian states she borders.

Thats the reality.

forum,facebook,youtube talking cant do the trick.

[safinator]

The usual forum talk:rolleyes2:

They stoned the government building,what else do they have to do for you to ''deport them''?:D

Macedonia is a weak,small and poor state and sadly can't do anything against the albanians within and the two albanian state she borders.

Thats the reality.

forum,facebook,youtube talking cant do the trick.

Sons of Alexander the Great wouldn't talk like this.

[Bugarash]

the fake state of Macedonia is Albanian land. the name of Shkup has Albanian origin. and these figures provided also prove this.

Skopje comes from the ancient dardanian city Skupi.
What connections do albanians have with ancient dardanians?

[Optimus]

the fake state of Macedonia is Albanian land. the name of Shkup has Albanian origin. and these figures provided also prove this.

Come and take it if it is your land.Ofcourse if you can NATO bitch.


The usual forum talk:rolleyes2:

They stoned the government building,what else do they have to do for you to ''deport them''?:D

Macedonia is a weak,small and poor state and sadly can't do anything against the albanians within and the two albanian states she borders.

Thats the reality.

forum,facebook,youtube talking cant do the trick.

The reality is that you are a troll and provocateur.Those were protests and were taken as such any more serious situation would have been dealed in a more serious manner.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Because Macedonia treats Bulgarians like sh!t doesn't mean you should sh!t on the country, Bugarash. The anti-Bulgarian propaganda built up during Yugoslavian years was of great benefit to Albanians since Bulgaria is our only key ally in the region and we are estranged from them because of Tito.

We should try our best to improve Macedonia-Bulgaria relations... and relations between Macedonians and Bulgarians on a deep personal level so we can start a sort of second Bulgarian renaissance in the region.

As for partition of Macedonia, it was already partitioned in 1912 but in 2012? It won't happen again. Ohrid Framework guarantees the territorial integrity of Macedonia and there is no Albanian substate within Macedonia... NATO won't allow it nor will they allow a partition of the country. That said, our army is not a joke, we can mobilize up to 100,000 soldiers in war time if needed.


1.2. Macedonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and the unitary character of the State are inviolable and must be preserved. There are no territorial solutions to ethnic issues.
-Ohrid Framework

[safinator]

Because Macedonia treats Bulgarians like sh!t doesn't mean you should sh!t on the country, Bugarash. The anti-Bulgarian propaganda built up during Yugoslavian years was of great benefit to Albanians since Bulgaria is our only key ally in the region and we are estranged from them because of Tito.

We should try our best to improve Macedonia-Bulgaria relations... and relations between Macedonians and Bulgarians on a deep personal level so we can start a sort of second Bulgarian renaissance in the region.

As for partition of Macedonia, it was already partitioned in 1912 but in 2012? It won't happen again. Ohrid Framework guarantees the territorial integrity of Macedonia and there is no Albanian substate within Macedonia... NATO won't allow it nor will they allow a partition of the country. That said, our army is not a joke, we can mobilize up to 100,000 soldiers in war time if needed.
I have a better and simpler idea.
Join Bulgaria.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I have a better and simpler idea.
Join Bulgaria.

No, we will remain an independent country. We are an Austria of sorts in the Balkans. Deal with it.

[Bugarash]

I have a better and simpler idea.
Join Bulgaria.

Like Bulgaria needs 800,000 albanians,gypsies and turks.

[dralos]

haahhaa pathetic troll,go back to bulgaria:D

[Bugarash]

The albanian problem could have been solved every easily if they listened to the former PM

if we gave up the Polog region-a region where half of the albanian lived in 2002-minus the municipality of Mavrovo and Rostuse.
we would have decreased the total number of albanians in Macedonia to about 12% of the population.-THE END OF THE ENTIRE GREATER ALBANIA CONCEPT!

but they wanted a multicultural Macedonia...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Ethnic_groups_in_the_Polog_Region_of_Macedonia_en. svg/600px-Ethnic_groups_in_the_Polog_Region_of_Macedonia_en. svg.png

[poiuytrewq0987]

I agree, we should have just gave up Polog except Mavrovo. No way we're giving that up. However there is always the option of doing a Operation Storm on Albanians if they try to start another war to partition Macedonia.

[dralos]

I agree, we should have just gave up Polog except Mavrovo. No way we're giving that up. However there is always the option of doing a Operation Storm on Albanians if they try to start another war to partition Macedonia.
ahahahahhahaahahahhaha you are dieing out,just try:D
we have money,we have relations in washington and we all are prepared:D

[Bugarash]

Once more

Does this look european to you?

therefore-Macedonia,historical bulgar land!


The last protests of albanians in the centre of Skopje in front of the government building

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%205_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%208_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%2018_2.jpg





http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%2017_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%202_2.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%2012_2.jpg


http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/protest%20pred%20vlada%20albanci%2004.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/protest%20pred%20vlada%20albanci%2007.jpg

http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/protest%20pred%20vlada%20albanci%2008.jpg


Stones at the government building

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/Makedonia5000/image1-1.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_novo_1.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_vlada_prozori.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_policija_kamen.jpg

http://sitel.com.mk/sites/default/files/imagecache/reporter_statija/novosti/2012/05/protest_govornica.jpg

[dralos]

albanians rock

[Flintlocke]

St @@ mas kai mas, Kwstis Palamas

I wanna see those Albo chickz who are becoming majority

[Linet]

oooh thank you :eyes ....and why are those pics bad? :blink:
....its not like they insult someone....:icon_ask:

[Bugarash]

I agree, we should have just gave up Polog except Mavrovo. No way we're giving that up. However there is always the option of doing a Operation Storm on Albanians if they try to start another war to partition Macedonia.

Operation storm was done because the americans and the albanian party in government said it can be done.

Im telling you that if the albanians want to destroy the current macedonian state they can do it.

The chance of getting rid of them bi giving away a small portion of territory is lost...now they are 25% of the population of Skopje,I mean how can we split Skopje?

[iNird]

Eh Makos have nothing to worry about. They still run shit and Albanians are idiots. Maybe if FYROM bankrupt itself it could happen. Other than that, nah.

:coffee:

[Midori]

oooh thank you :eyes ....and why are those pics bad? :blink:
....its not like they insult someone....:icon_ask:

You won't be saying this when Greece borders Greater Albania, one more big Muslim country next to you.

[Dacul]

I do not understand why albanians are coming with things written in arabic alphabet at that protest.
You can notice from both jewish and arabian alphabet that these people are freaking weird,they think someone is spying them so they have a very hard to understand alphabet,written from right to left instead of being written from left to right.
I really do not understand how can an alboz become so brain washed to use that alphabet instead of his native latin alphabet.
http://v2plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2012/05/11/albanci%20%20pred%20vlada%2012_2.jpg
I also do not understand how some slavs are so brainwashed to continue using that alphabet instead of latin alphabet.
I do not understand either how can an alboz can pass to muslim religion,which is just a different form of judaism.
Zoroastrism was the original religion of dacians and slavs/thracians and that was so much better than Islam/judaism.
At least slavs are christians.

[MandM]

ahahahahhahaahahahhaha you are dieing out,just try:D
we have money,we have relations in washington and we all are prepared:D

are u sure u are saying this right?, how do u know u have money, relations with washington?many have that dosent mean anything, even if they helped u befor dosent mean they will now, and when u say we are preperd, are u including yourself aswell, are u really ready to go to macedonia take a weapon and kill a nother humen, and for what? its easy to talk on the internet, but dont start talking about somthing u are not ready for or know 100% about

[el22]

No one wants Macedonia and, we didn’t want to be in 2 states either.

But now I think we’re taking pleasure in the idea of having 2 votes in international organizations. On the other hand it hurts in sports: we will have 2 mediocre teams instead of a single better one.

As for Macedonia… at some point borders will exist only in the map. Albanians of Albania, Kosova, Macedonia, … will share the same school curricula, … and any other aspect of life, except for voting governments and paying taxes.

So, in almost every aspect of life we will be united in any case. And with Albanians the second ethnicity, there are good chances that Macedonia, if not a third Albanian state, will be influenced in some degree by politics of Albania (the inverse seems very unlikely).

As for economical development, 20 years earlier Macedonia was ahead of Albania in every aspect, now we’re roughly the same (in some things better, in some things still worse).

And in these 20 years we found the time to go back in year zero (1997), and it seems that we can progress even with the burden of having the most moron prime minister in our history (and probably in the history of world) - sali berisha.

[Gospodine]

No Balkan country deserves anymore land.

[iNird]

No Balkan country deserves anymore land.



The border between Albania and its neighbors was delineated in 1913 following the decision by the Ambassadors at the Conference of London. The delineation of the new state's borders left more than half of Albanian communities outside Albania. This population was largely divided between Montenegro and Serbia (which then included what is now Kosovo and the Republic of Macedonia). A substantial number of Albanians thus found themselves under Serbian rule.

Meaning more Albanians were living outside Albania than in Albania. Even today there is somewhere over 2.5 million Albanians living outside Albania (including places like Kosova, Macedonia and Montenegro.)

I'm not a huge proponent of redrawing borders but I think Albanians deserve some resolution on this issue. IMO it's one of the issues in the Balkans that can't be ignored. Kosova's independence is a start.....

[el22]

No Balkan country deserves anymore land.

OK, we're done with Balkan.
So, which country deserves more land?
And, what formula do you use for this "deservedness" thing?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Meaning more Albanians were living outside Albania than in Albania. Even today there is somewhere over 2.5 million Albanians living outside Albania (including places like Kosova, Macedonia and Montenegro.)

I'm not a huge proponent of redrawing borders but I think Albanians deserve some resolution on this issue. IMO it's one of the issues in the Balkans that can't be ignored. Kosova's independence is a start.....

Please... :rolleyes: Albanians in Macedonia are recent colonizers who came in the 19th century.

[Drawing-slim]

What a joke. Your own prime minister says you're fake joke people you expect anyone else to take macedonia serious!?

[iNird]

Please... :rolleyes: Albanians in Macedonia are recent colonizers who came in the 19th century.

This stupid "chicken and egg game." We are recent "arrivals" as you cliam but you are descendants of Slavic invaders. Populations change over time. Shkup was a predominately Albanian city 100 years ago today it's filled with Slavo-Makos mainly due to urbanization.

[poiuytrewq0987]

This stupid "chicken and egg game." We are recent "arrivals" as you cliam but you are descendants of Slavic invaders. Populations change over time. Shkup was a predominately Albanian city 100 years ago today it's filled with Slavo-Makos mainly due to urbanization.

Тhe colonization has already been documented by ethnographer Kanchov. It IS a fact you never lived in Macedonia until recent times. About our Slavic thing, Slavic culture emerged in the Balkans, so it is as indigenous as Albanian or Greek cultures.

[Drawing-slim]

Тhe colonization has already been documented by ethnographer Kanchov. It IS a fact you never lived in Macedonia until recent times. About our Slavic thing, Slavic culture emerged in the Balkans, so it is as indigenous as Albanian or Greek cultures.When you listen to yourself bullshit, do you get off on it or what? Lol, you feel brilliant or somthing?

[Xenomorph]

Тhe colonization has already been documented by ethnographer Kanchov. It IS a fact you never lived in Macedonia until recent times. About our Slavic thing, Slavic culture emerged in the Balkans, so it is as indigenous as Albanian or Greek cultures.

From what I know, Slavs originated in what is now southern Russia and Ukraine.

[Midori]

Please... :rolleyes: Albanians in Macedonia are recent colonizers who came in the 19th century.

Many of them are recent immigrants from Kosovo.

[memobekes]

From what I know, Slavs originated in what is now southern Russia and Ukraine.

It is generally thought that Slavs derived from the areas immediately north of the Danube river, i.e, in what is now today's southern Poland.

[iNird]

Тhe colonization has already been documented by ethnographer Kanchov. It IS a fact you never lived in Macedonia until recent times. About our Slavic thing, Slavic culture emerged in the Balkans, so it is as indigenous as Albanian or Greek cultures.

Kanchov was a Bulgarofile and his work should be taken with a grain of salt. I think his research on the ethnicity can be reliable to a certain extent, but I'm not so sure about his historical claims. For example, let's take the following:


Translation: The Albanian colonisation of the Polog valley began to exacerbate at the end of the 18th century. During this time in Tetovo the local pasha’s, who were of Albanian origin, brought in workers from Albania to work the fields… The same with the villages of Florina and Chajle, as Alabanians from Korito village were brought in to settle the newly vacated Macedonian villages around the turn of the 19th century, on the request of the pasha’s in Tetovo.

Vasil Kanchev was not alive during the end of the 18th century and I was wondering what sources he uses for that claim. It could be true but I was wondering how credible the statement is. Did he interview locals around the area? Is there a source provided elsewhere in the book? Maybe you can provide some insight.

Also there have been population movements throughout history. If you, or any Albanian, Serb, Greek, Bosnian, etc think your ancestors have been living in the same town/city for centuries upon centuries then I think you are delusional. With that said, Slavic migration is well doucmented while most historians agree Albanians are descendents of Illyrians, thus, our migration, if you will call it that, has mostly been in the same general area.

;)


Many of them are recent immigrants from Kosovo.

How recent? You have a source?

The grandparents' of the prime minister of Macedonia fought in the Greek civil war and you people want to speak on this supposive "Kosovar immigration."

You live in Skopje, and I can almost guarntee your parents (or grandparents) did not live there before the 60's........

[Prengs]

The grandparents' of the prime minister of Macedonia fought in the Greek civil war and you people want to speak on this supposive "Kosovar immigration."

You live in Skopje, and I can almost guarntee your parents (or grandparents) did not live there before the 60's........

haha funny, not only current prime minister also all ex-prime ministers were immigrants who came in Macedonia after WWII from Bulgaria and Greece.

[Gospodine]

From what I know, Slavs originated in what is now southern Russia and Ukraine.

A very simplified overview.

There's two competing theories regarding the ethnogenesis of Slavic-speaking peoples.

If you follow the Kurgan Hypothesis that dates PIE to the Chalcolithic (6000-4000BC), the Slavs originated in what is now Ukraine and Belarus and migrated beyond the Carpathians to form the South Slavic ethnic groups around the 5th and 6th centuries AD.

If you follow the Paleolithic Continuity Theory (which is becoming increasingly popular), it argues that all languages developed in the regions which they are more or less spoken in today as well as language being linked to the arrival of Homo Sapiens in Europe and Asia, hence PIE would be dated to around the Upper Paleolithic (45,000 to 10,000 years before present). A part of this theory is that the Slavic languages actually originated in the Balkans and spread North and West from there.

If the Kurgan Hypothesis holds true, the Slavs were never any sort of a united, homogenous population but rather they would have been a combination of Indo-European and Pre-Indo-European peoples (the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture of Ukraine-Moldova-Romania which declined around 2750BC, likely to due assimilation by Indo-Europeans), who also later came to absorb numerous Baltic, Iranic and Gothic/Germanic influences.

If the Paleolithic Continuity Theory holds true, today's South Slavs are the legitimate "Slavs" (not that they are homogenous either).

[Optimus]

A very simplified overview.

There's two competing theories regarding the ethnogenesis of Slavic-speaking peoples.

If you follow the Kurgan Hypothesis that dates PIE to the Chalcolithic (6000-4000BC), the Slavs originated in what is now Ukraine and Belarus and migrated beyond the Carpathians to form the South Slavic ethnic groups around the 5th and 6th centuries AD.

If you follow the Paleolithic Continuity Theory (which is becoming increasingly popular), it argues that all languages developed in the regions which they are more or less spoken in today as well as language being linked to the arrival of Homo Sapiens in Europe and Asia, hence PIE would be dated to around the Upper Paleolithic (45,000 to 10,000 years before present). A part of this theory is that the Slavic languages actually originated in the Balkans and spread North and West from there.

If the Kurgan Hypothesis holds true, the Slavs were never any sort of a united, homogenous population but rather they would have been a combination of Indo-European and Pre-Indo-European peoples (the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture of Ukraine-Moldova-Romania which declined around 2750BC, likely to due assimilation by Indo-Europeans), who also later came to absorb numerous Baltic, Iranic and Gothic/Germanic influences.

If the Paleolithic Continuity Theory holds true, today's South Slavs are the legitimate "Slavs" (not that they are homogenous either).

Dating PIE to 45 thousands years is quite ignorant.Don't embarrass yourself please.Your bias and ethnocentrism is hilarious.:lol:

Things doesn't work like this in real science only in your fantasy world.

[Midori]

How recent? You have a source?

The grandparents' of the prime minister of Macedonia fought in the Greek civil war and you people want to speak on this supposive "Kosovar immigration."

I mean they came here as refugees from Kosovo during the war. I don't have a source but this is widely known here, they still speak Serbian instead of Macedonian.


You live in Skopje, and I can almost guarntee your parents (or grandparents) did not live there before the 60's........

But 2 of them are ethnic Macedonians. Doesn't matter if they were born in Skopje.

[dralos]

I mean they came here as refugees from Kosovo during the war. I don't have a source but this is widely known here, they still speak Serbian instead of Macedonian.



But 2 of them are ethnic Macedonians. Doesn't matter if they were born in Skopje.
skpje was always albo city,it had the biggest albo population from the whole balkan

[Pecheneg]

albanians : 7.727 - 3.198 = +4.529
seriously??? :eek:

[Gospodine]

Dating PIE to 45 thousands years is quite ignorant.Don't embarrass yourself please.Your bias and ethnocentrism is hilarious.:lol:

Things doesn't work like this in real science only in your fantasy world.

Can you read?

I said somewhere in between that time frame.

I'll talk the words of people like Alinei, Sforza and reputable linguists/anthropologists over an internet random thanks.

Continuing traveling down your narrow-minded corridor of neat, romanticized notions of history, simpleton.
It suits you and your prejudices quite well.

Now let me return you back to your Balkan shitfest...

[Optimus]

Can you read?

I said somewhere in between that time frame.

I'll talk the words of people like Alinei, Sforza and reputable linguists/anthropologist over an internet random thanks.

Continuing traveling down your narrow-minded corridor of neat, romanticized notions of history, simpleton.

Now let me return you back to your Balkan shitfest...

PIE is younger than that.Even R1a as a whole is too old for the language hence it is related with only some specific subclades of it R1a M17.Sorry but you have showed your ignorance in couple of your posts here.

By the way can you quote those linguists and anthropologists at which you believe so much in them?

[Gospodine]

I honestly don't have the time or will to explain the tenets of the PCT to someone who is startled by the fact that a language super-family could be older than 5500BC.
I suppose you've never heard of Basque or the North Caucasian languages.

Expand your horizons is all I can say.
I'm not hear to educate you.


Sorry but you have showed your ignorance in couple of your posts here.

Someone takes the Internet way too seriously.

Ignorance =/= Non-Mainstream Beliefs.

You seem to think PIE is set in stone when they haven't even conclusively given an Urheimat for it yet.

[Optimus]

the fact that a language super-family could be older than 5500BC.

The point is that it is younger than 10k for sure.


I'm not hear to educate you.


lulz you barely know what you are writing letalone educating me.


Someone takes the internet way too seriously.


I fail to see the connection here.


Expand your horizons is all I can say.


That applies to you.We have had quite surprises from Neolithic tested remains and you speak with such certainty about Paleolithic ancestry which i define as pure ignorance.

[Bugarash]

Albanians have started inventing new geographical regions...

since when is this region called Ilirida?

http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/Uploads/News/ballisti1%5B1%5D.jpg

[Bugarash]

seriously??? :eek:

No shit!

[Midori]

Albanians have started inventing new geographical regions...

since when is this region called Ilirida?

http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/Uploads/News/ballisti1%5B1%5D.jpg

It's not called Bulgaria either :coffee:

[Bugarash]

It's not called Bulgaria either :coffee:

It's a historical region of Bulgaria.

Cyprus isn't called Greece,right?
Kosovo isn't called Albania,right?
Austria isn't called Germany,right?

[Midori]

It's a historical region of Bulgaria.


No it's not. If you don't recognise our country you should leave it and go back to Bulgaria.

[Archduke]

No it's not. If you don't recognise our country you should leave it and go back to Bulgaria.

Serbia is welcomed for you also. :cool:

[Midori]

Serbia is welcomed for you also. :cool:

What? I recognise the existence of my country :coffee:

[Onur]

I'll talk the words of people like Alinei, Sforza and reputable linguists/anthropologists over an internet random thanks.
Your previous post was just hypothesis of the so-called Paleolithic Continuity theory created by Mario Allinei and imho, it`s even bigger fiction than Star Wars or LOTR. 45k year old proto-IE, proto that, proto this. This is pure fiction. There is no way to prove any of these claims.

If you are so into Mario Allinei and his theories, he also has some theories like Etruscan language was nothing more than a mix of Hungarian and Turkic and Etruscan script (later known as Latin) is similar with Turkic runic alphabet. He even says that Etruscans was being called by Egyptians and Greeks as "Turks". Do you accept this theory too?

Etrusco: Una Forma Arcaica di Ungherese (Etruscan: An Archaic Form of Hungarian)

In what is probably the most interesting account of recent years, the Italian dialectologist, Mario Alinei, suggests in his new book that Etruscan is nothing more than an archaic form of Hungarian with extensive Türkic borrowings.

in the form of ships with prows in the form of horned birds’ heads, as well as a name cited by Egyptian sources, the Tursha which agrees with the Greek name for the Etruscans, the Tyrsenoi, and as Alinei tentatively suggests, with Türk.

His main point about the Turkic origins of Etruscan vocabulary for offices of state is nevertheless a powerful one.

Read more here;
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/09/etrusco-una-forma-arcaica-di-ungherese.html

[iNird]

seriously??? :eek:

If we assume Albos are around 500k-600k then the crude birth rate would be around 12-14 births for every 1,000 people. Countries like Ireland have 17, you're beloved Turkey is around 18 (ps Turks in Macedonia have pretty high crude birht rate as well similar to Albanians.) Point is it is higher than most of Western Europe but not out of this world high

[Bugarash]

If we assume Albos are around 500k-600k then the crude birth rate would be around 12-14 births for every 1,000 people. Countries like Ireland have 17, you're beloved Turkey is around 18 (ps Turks in Macedonia have pretty high crude birht rate as well similar to Albanians.) Point is it is higher than most of Western Europe but not out of this world high

In eastern Macedonia there are many gypsies who declare to be turks...

[iNird]

In eastrn Macedonia there are many gypsies who declare to be turks...

Interesting. Eastern Macedonia is facing issues with high migrations and low birith rates. Who knows it may be Turkish one daylol .

Where my family, some of the Gypsies are counted as Macedonian and the Torbesh are normally counted as Turks. These turks don't speak a lick of Turkish but they wave their Turkish flags from time to time.

;)

[Midori]

Where my family, some of the Gypsies are counted as Macedonian and the Torbesh are normally counted as Turks. These turks don't speak a lick of Turkish but they wave their Turkish flags from time to time.

;)

:stop

Torbesh are Turks btw. No such thing as Muslim Macedonian.

[iNird]

:stop


Well like you would say, "I don't have a source but it's widely known here."

:D


Torbesh are Turks btw. No such thing as Muslim Macedonian.

Cool the more diluted teh Macedonian idenity da betta.

:thumbs:

[Bugarash]

Interesting. Eastern Macedonia is facing huge issues with high migrations and low birith rates. Who knows it may be Turkish one day .

Where my family, some of the Gypsies are counted as Macedonian and the Torbesh are normally counted as Turks. These turks don't speak a lick of Turkish but they wave their Turkish flags from time to time.

;)

The situation of gypsies stating to be macedonians is most comon in Strumica municipality.

On every yearly publication about the birth/death rate there is a increase among the macedonian population-the only municipality where macedonians arent in a downfall.

But if you go in the city itself you can see that about 20% of the faces you see are gypsy like.

[Bugarash]

Today there are for sure 3 new majority albanian municipalities created through a natural way.

Plus,macedonians will lose in 2013 another 3 majority macedonian municipalities when 3 macedonian and 2 albanian municipalities mingle into one big majority albanian municipality.

From 2002

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/MKD_muni_nonn%28Ethnic%29.png

[iNird]

The situation of gypsies stating to be macedonians is most comon in Strumica municipality.

On every yearly publication about the birth/death rate there is a increase among the macedonian population-the only municipality where macedonians arent in a downfall.

But if you go in the city itself you can see that about 20% of the faces you see are gypsy like.

Macedonia is a funny country. You have some Torbesh in Struga claiming to be Albanian, gypsies claiming to be Macedonian, Torbesh elsewhere claiming to be Turkish, some small amounts of Albanian orthodox claiming to be Macedonian, Serbs in the north claiming to be Macedonian, Bulgarians claiming to be Macedonian and to top it you have Slavs claiming to be Ancient Macedonians. What a fcking a mess!

:D

[dralos]

its good news that albanian births are rising,it means more balkanites in ancient macedonia:D

[Midori]

The situation of gypsies stating to be macedonians is most comon in Strumica municipality.

On every yearly publication about the birth/death rate there is a increase among the macedonian population-the only municipality where macedonians arent in a downfall.

But if you go in the city itself you can see that about 20% of the faces you see are gypsy like.

Indeed. Many Southeastern ''Macedonians'' look Gypsy influenced.

[iNird]

Indeed. Many Southeastern ''Macedonians'' look Gypsy influenced.

http://uploadpic.org/storage/2011/Ta0GThnzYU1I6K91lq1FJLLP.png

[Almogavar]

where are all the women in those mass protests? :S

[Midori]

^^Where are they from?

[iNird]

^^Where are they from?

Disregard rep comment. Maybe Ohrid, could be tourist from other area.......

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vladimir-911/898602767/in/photostream/

PS:

I don't think he's a gypsy, could be part Gypsy. But he's swarthy as hell.....

[Bugarash]

its good news that albanian births are rising,it means more balkanites in ancient macedonia:D

Albanians have had a big fall from 9 to 7,000 in births
another such fall is expected probably in a decade from now...

http://www.rdk.org.mk/images/stories/tabelanr5.jpg

[Grizzly]

Albanians have had a big fall from 9 to 7,000 in births
another such fall is expected probably in a decade from now...

http://www.rdk.org.mk/images/stories/tabelanr5.jpg

It has been increasing since 2004 lol..

[iNird]

Albanians have had a big fall from 9 to 7,000 in births
another such fall is expected probably in a decade from now...

http://www.rdk.org.mk/images/stories/tabelanr5.jpg

The biggest fall will be with migration from all sides. Many of you Makos were able to get state jobs historically and have not had a need to emigrate (other than those Macedonians that left for Austrlia in the 70's who were mainly from the Southwest region IIRC) but now that Albanians have increased participation in state jobs, there are less state jobs for your kind. Less state jobs hello Bulgaria or other EU countries and maybe Australia. ;)

[Midori]

The biggest fall will be with migration from all sides. Many of you Makos were able to get state jobs historically and have not had a need to emigrate (other than those Macedonians that left for Austrlia in the 70's who were mainly from the Southwest region IIRC) but now that Albanians have increased participation in state jobs, there are less state jobs for your kind. Less state jobs hello Bulgaria or other EU countries and maybe Australia. ;)

He is not Macedonian.

[iNird]

He is not Macedonian.

We're all Macedonians here. He just happens to be a Mako-Bulgar.

:thumb001:

[Midori]

We're all Macedonians here. He just happens to be a Mako-Bulgar.

:thumb001:

Well, unlike you, he doesn't identify as Macedonian.

[memobekes]

Parts of the FYR of Macedonia are de-facto under Albanian jurisdiction.

In the north-west, for example, police are not allowed to establish their presence.

Whether or not this sets a precedent for future developments is hard to forecast but Macedonia - already at odds with Bulgaria and Greece - is facing yet another ensuing struggle to preserve its very existence.

[Archduke]

All Bulgarians have something related to Macedonia.

[iNird]

Well, unlike you, he doesn't identify as Macedonian.

So what? I identify as Macedonian for the LULz. Most Albanians would consider it an insult if you called them Macedonian. You identified more as Serbian when you first joined the forum from what I remembered.

;)

[Midori]

So what? I identify as Macedonian for the LULz. Most Albanians would consider it an insult if you called them Macedonian. You identified more as Serbian when you first joined the forum from what I remembered.

;)

Nah, man you're uber Macedonian. :cool:

I never identified as Serbian btw. Yugoslavian only.

[Anatolian Eagle]

So many nations claiming Macedonia, lol, better let Macedonia just stay as an independent country.

[Archduke]

So many nations claiming Macedonia, lol, better let Macedonia just stay as an independent country.

Give Eastern Anatolia to Armenia, Constantinopol to Greece, Edirne to Bulgaria, make Kurdistand independent country and then talk. :thumb001:

[iNird]

So many nations claiming Macedonia, lol, better let Macedonia just stay as an independent country.

Fuck off Turk

LULZZZZZzzzzzzzZz just playing


Nah, man you're uber Macedonian. :cool:



I think you are right.

:eek:

[Midori]

So many nations claiming Macedonia, lol, better let Macedonia just stay as an independent country.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~kolev20k/pics/Picture_of_the_CD-book_Macedonian_Book_2006_Macedonia_for_the_Macedo nians.jpg

[Crn Volk]

Parts of the FYR of Macedonia are de-facto under Albanian jurisdiction.

In the north-west, for example, police are not allowed to establish their presence.

Whether or not this sets a precedent for future developments is hard to forecast but Macedonia - already at odds with Bulgaria and Greece - is facing yet another ensuing struggle to preserve its very existence.

This is incorrect. The Tetovo army barracks of the Macedonian Army is alive and well.

[dralos]

pigeon,ancient macedonians didnt look like that guy but like me:mad:

[RoyBatty]

Macedonia is a region in Northern Greece.

As for FYROM / Paeonia, it's a problem for the Bulgarians, their descendents the identity robbing Bulgarians-in-denial and Albanians to fight over. :D

http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/_NrqLqsmjAc/hqdefault.jpg

[memobekes]

So many nations claiming Macedonia, lol, better let Macedonia just stay as an independent country.

The situation with the ethnic Albanians is a bit different, though.

To the Greeks and Bulgarians there are historical connotations with the region since way back.

[memobekes]

This is incorrect. The Tetovo army barracks of the Macedonian Army is alive and well.

No, it is correct and has already been acknowledged:


Under the Law on Decentralization adopted on August 11, 2004, Macedonia has been living through the redivision of territorial administrative units, which local politicians and experts see as a deliberate split of the Republic according to ethnic belonging. There are still Albanian areas in the north-west of the country, where a Macedonian policeman is not allowed. And they say that Albanian militants possess lots of arms.

Source: Mikhail YAMBAEV, Strategic Culture Foundation, 2011.

[Anatolian Eagle]

Give Eastern Anatolia to Armenia, Constantinopol to Greece, Edirne to Bulgaria, make Kurdistand independent country and then talk. :thumb001:

LULz no way. :thumb001:

This sounds kinda amusing because giving Eastern Anatolia to Armenoz and making "Kurdistan" independent is contradictory. LOL

[Archduke]

LULz no way. :thumb001:

Like we will "no way" accept Macedonia as independent country. ;)

[Midori]

Like we will "no way" accept Macedonia as independent country. ;)

We still exist despite your opinion about us

[Archduke]

We still exist despite your opinion about us

I didn't said that you can't exist, i just can't accept fake countries, which are stealing history. :)

[Crn Volk]

I didn't said that you can't exist, i just can't accept fake countries, which are stealing history. :)


so were the proto-bulgars iranian or turkic?

[Anatolian Eagle]

so were the proto-bulgars iranian or turkic?

They were Turkic, closely releated to modern Chuvash people.

[Archduke]

so were the proto-bulgars iranian or turkic?

they were ancient macedonian. :rolleyes:

[Crn Volk]

they were ancient macedonian. :rolleyes:

lolz :wink

[Bugarash]

The biggest fall will be with migration from all sides. Many of you Makos were able to get state jobs historically and have not had a need to emigrate (other than those Macedonians that left for Austrlia in the 70's who were mainly from the Southwest region IIRC) but now that Albanians have increased participation in state jobs, there are less state jobs for your kind. Less state jobs hello Bulgaria or other EU countries and maybe Australia. ;)

Thats true
But the fact that albanians were discriminated,didint get jobs,didint get education,resumed living in the villages while the government gave apartments away to macedonians so they could work in the industry in the cities...those are the main reasons why today the albanians still have a high birth rate.
In other words,the government here indirectly stimulated the albanian birth rate.

[Crn Volk]

Thats true
But the fact that albanians were discriminated,didint get jobs,didint get education,resumed living in the villages while the government gave apartments away to macedonians so they could work in the industry in the cities...those are the main reasons why today the albanians still have a high birth rate.
In other words,the government here indirectly stimulated the albanian birth rate.

Indeed as more Albanian women are educated and participate in Macedonian society, the less they will remain breeding machines.

[Crn Volk]

not even if all hell breaks lose:D

Oh c'mon dralos, you want to be Macedonian don't you?

[dralos]

Oh c'mon dralos, you want to be Macedonian don't you?
if you mean ancient macedonian then i already am:D
but fyromsli noway:D

[Grizzly]

Thats true
But the fact that albanians were discriminated,didint get jobs,didint get education,resumed living in the villages while the government gave apartments away to macedonians so they could work in the industry in the cities...those are the main reasons why today the albanians still have a high birth rate.
In other words,the government here indirectly stimulated the albanian birth rate.

This is partly true. I think it was actually harmful for the Macedonians as the Macedonians who got the free apartment and state jobs were getting payed what 300-400 euros a month? Basically not enough to start a family and they got a bit spoiled and thus low birth rates for Macedonians while the Albanians either left the country and sent money back home.

The town my parents come from have alot of new businesses, stores, and homes being created by Albanians.

[Crn Volk]

if you mean ancient macedonian then i already am:D
but fyromsli noway:D

so you will write ancient macedonian in the next census?

[dralos]

so you will write ancient macedonian in the next census?
yeah ancient macedonian aka albo:D

[Bugarash]

It's late now
albanians form 33% of children in primary schools

and this is a trend that is present since the early 90's!
which means now they are probably close to 30% of the total population with a potential one day to become 33% or even more.

And Im sure that's why the population census in Macedonia is such a big issue,once the 30% number is shown,they will probably want to become a constitutional element on the ranks of the macedonians and the albanian language to become official on the entire territory of the country!

So Macedonia will be Bosnia 2

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8118/osnovniucilista.jpg

[dralos]

I hope marriages between Albanians and Macedonians do occur as hopefully it will start some sort of peace between the two but I haven't heard of any Albanian(women) marrying a Macedonian man.. It's extremely rare..
dude wtf,our women marrying slavs,are you nutz

[poiuytrewq0987]

I hope marriages between Albanians and Macedonians do occur as hopefully it will start some sort of peace between the two but I haven't heard of any Albanian(women) marrying a Macedonian man.. It's extremely rare..

Only because of religion and communist muslim Albanian dads.

[Crn Volk]

I hope marriages between Albanians and Macedonians do occur as hopefully it will start some sort of peace between the two but I haven't heard of any Albanian(women) marrying a Macedonian man.. It's extremely rare..

Actually there is a growing number of older Macedonian men, particularly in the south, taking Albanian brides from Albania. These are usually Christian Albanians or members of the Macedonian minority in Albania though.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Actually there is a growing number of older Macedonian men, particularly in the south, taking Albanian brides from Albania. These are usually Christian Albanians or members of the Macedonian minority in Albania though.

Yes, these type of marriages, Macedonians marrying Albanians in Albania especially Orthodox ones are actually pretty common.

[Midori]

I hope marriages between Albanians and Macedonians do occur as hopefully it will start some sort of peace between the two but I haven't heard of any Albanian(women) marrying a Macedonian man.. It's extremely rare..

Well, I had one half Albanian half Macedonian kid in my school.

[Crn Volk]

dude wtf,our women marrying slavs,are you nutz

Yes, it has been happening for centuries. See George Kastrioti.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well, I had one half Albanian half Macedonian kid in my school.

If religion wasn't so important in Balkans, these Albanians in Macedonia would have been Macedonized a long time ago. But fortunately, liberal ideas in the region are common these days and Albanians will be soon Macedonized. ;)

[Crn Volk]

yeah ancient macedonian aka albo:D

i'm glad you are proud of your ancient macedonian roots, as am i.

[Midori]

If religion wasn't so important in Balkans, these Albanians in Macedonia would have been Macedonized a long time ago. But fortunately, liberal ideas in the region are common these days and Albanians will be soon Macedonized. ;)

I actually heard of a famous Albanian man in Skopje whose daughter married a Macedonian man. (it happened this month)

[Grizzly]

Well, I had one half Albanian half Macedonian kid in my school.

I wouldn't be surprised. I heard alot of stories of Albanian men sleeping around with Macedonian women(mostly skanks probably) so I guess there's some bastard children out there.

[Crn Volk]

I actually heard of a famous Albanian man in Skopje whose daughter married a Macedonian man. (it happened this month)

I think Albanian radicals don't like this development and will/are fighting against it. They like separatism and segregation.

[Midori]

I wouldn't be surprised. I heard alot of stories of Albanian men sleeping around with Macedonian women(mostly skanks probably) so I guess there's some bastard children out there.

His parents were married, but they divorced and his dad died when he was little. He had 2 surnames, one Macedonian from his mum and one Albanian from his dad.

[Grizzly]

dude wtf,our women marrying slavs,are you nutz

Chill lol.. I didn't imply for Albanian women but both and I don't think it would be the worst idea. Not a full scale effort but it's better for an Albanian man to marry a Macedonian woman rather than some Turk or foreigner.

I understand where you are coming from but I want to see peace between both sides. I don't want to see my family getting murdered or being forced to flee the country in the future for some BS war..

[Grizzly]

I think Albanian radicals don't like this development and will/are fighting against it. They like separatism and segregation.

Trust me there is no "interracial" efforts (or w/e you wanna call it) between Albanians and Macedonians happening in Macedonia right now. The people are pretty damn segregated and Albanians don't want to mingle with Macedonians(trust me on this)

[Grizzly]

His parents were married, but they divorced and his dad died when he was little. He had 2 surnames, one Macedonian from his mum and one Albanian from his dad.

What does he identify as? I can imagine he got picked on as a kid from both Maks and Alboz

[Crn Volk]

Trust me there is no "interracial" efforts (or w/e you wanna call it) between Albanians and Macedonians happening in Macedonia right now. The people are pretty damn segregated and Albanians don't want to mingle with Macedonians(trust me on this)

It's a shame. I agree with you, there should be more of it and no more wars/violence.

[Midori]

What does he identify as? I can imagine he got picked on as a kid from both Maks and Alboz

Well there were no Albos at my school. Some kids called him the ''S'' word but he just laughed it off, it didn't seem to bother him.

He identified more with his Macedonian side.

[iNird]

Thats true
But the fact that albanians were discriminated,didint get jobs,didint get education,resumed living in the villages while the government gave apartments away to macedonians so they could work in the industry in the cities...those are the main reasons why today the albanians still have a high birth rate.
In other words,the government here indirectly stimulated the albanian birth rate.

You're actually right to some degree. Many Albanians also worked in agriculture and having more kids was needed to work in the fields.

With that said, there was still a large amount of Albanian migration to Turkey and to the West for lack of opportunities. So the tactic you mentioned did have benefits for the Macedonians in terms of demographics for the short term.


And they will marry Macedonian men more often :thumb001:

Trolling aside, intermarriages are rare amongst our kind. Like someone else mentioned, it happens in Southern Macedonia between poor village women from Albania and Macedonian men that want to start a family. There are statstics on marriages on the official Macedonian government website and intermarriages aren't numerous.....

edit:

To put it in perspective, there were 6920 marriages where the bride and groom were both Macedonian. There were 4779 marriages when the bride and groom were Albanian. There were 16 marriages when the Bride was Macedonian and the groom was Albanian and 119 marriages when the bride was Albanian and groom was Macedonian.

[Prengs]

Thats true
But the fact that albanians were discriminated,didint get jobs,didint get education,resumed living in the villages while the government gave apartments away to macedonians so they could work in the industry in the cities...those are the main reasons why today the albanians still have a high birth rate.
In other words,the government here indirectly stimulated the albanian birth rate.

Dude Albanians dont have high birth rate, Albs of Macedonia have very very normal Birth rates which natality rate is 2.20. According medicine to survive one people ( to not have decline in population), average of natality rate must be 2.00.

It is not our fault that you Macedonins have problems about family society where your natality rate is 1.35-1.40.

[Bugarash]

For european standards...albanians have a high birthrate!

[iNird]

For european standards...albanians have a high birthrate!

Well compared to Western Europe yes, ofc. Compared to countries like Ireland not as much, we're probably less than Ireland but near the top of the list.

But it's not comparable to African countries or Middle Eastern countries...... something your people like to insinuate.

[Prengs]

For european standards...albanians have a high birthrate!

Ireland, Island, France have more high birth rates than Albania.

[rashka]

What the Macedonian government has to do is give incentives only to Slavic Macedonians to have babies. For example give 5,000 dollars if the couple has a third child.

[Grizzly]

What the Macedonian government has to do is give incentives only to Slavic Macedonians to have babies. For example give 5,000 dollars if the couple has a third child.

Sounds like discrimination and corruption to me. That is no healthy way in dealing with the issue.

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedImages/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/MDII-graphics-webready-89.png

The prospect of having a 40% Muslim minority might be worrisome but I'm not worried. I know for a fact Albanians and other Muslims like Torbesh and Turks will be eventually assimilated as religion becomes less important in this liberal age.

Liberte, egalite, fraternie!

[Bugarash]

Man who makes these statistics?

accoring to the 2002 census the muslims in Macedonia are 34%!

while now they are probably 40%,or at least close to 40%
by 2030 things will probably be like 50/50 in Macedonia...

membership in EU could help because muslims here tend to emigrate more than christians...but who knows if Macedonia will ever become a EU member.

For example EU membership helped Bulgaria to get rid alot of it's gypsy population.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Man who makes these statistics?

accoring to the 2002 census the muslims in Macedonia are 34%!

while now they are probably 40%,or at least close to 40%
by 2030 things will probably be like 50/50 in Macedonia...

membership in EU could help because muslims here tend to emigrate more than christians...but who knows if Macedonia will ever become a EU member.

For example EU membership helped Bulgaria to get rid alot of it's gypsy population.

I really doubt Muslims are 40% of the population. :rolleyes: Only Albanians make up a majority of this Muslim population and they are at best 15-20% of the population. The 2002 census was fabricated to appease Albanians and put the Ohrid Framework rule of 25% population/language in effect.

I wonder if our gypsies are Christian or Muslim. I think Bulgarian gypsies are mostly Christian whereas they are Muslim here because they often also identify with Turks and hence their favor toward Islam. I think Macedonian gypsies were pretty well-integrated during Yugo years but not since then. At best we can do is make them integrate better and I think that is doable since they are only 60,000.

There's also the issue of Torbesh who identify with Turks and Albanians due to propaganda and Albanians trying to boost their census figures.

I do agree that if Macedonia joins the EU it would get rid a lot of its gypsies and other scum who contribute very little to the country. Western Europe is indeed a nice dumping ground since there's already so many of these people living there. ;)

[RoyBatty]

The prospect of having a 40% Muslim minority might be worrisome but I'm not worried. I know for a fact Albanians and other Muslims like Torbesh and Turks will be eventually assimilated as religion becomes less important in this liberal age.


This theory of yours sure worked out well in the post USSR Stans :rolleyes:


Liberte, egalite, fraternie!

Idiotic French feelgood fairytales, bought into by morons. :rolleyes2:

[Grizzly]

The prospect of having a 40% Muslim minority might be worrisome but I'm not worried. I know for a fact Albanians and other Muslims like Torbesh and Turks will be eventually assimilated as religion becomes less important in this liberal age.

Liberte, egalite, fraternie!

LOL, you keep saying that Albanians will assimilate into being Slav Macedonians but that will never happen. If the Maks couldn't have assimilate Albanians during the 20th century and during Yugo times what chance do you guys have now? Maks have tried assimilating Albanians during the Yugo times by forcibly changing their names, denying our language, forcing certain customs, etc, but that as we both know has failed. Not to mention Maks have also tried deporting Albanians to Turkey and to the West but Albanians are still there and growing might I add! The country is becoming increasingly segregated and Albanians don't really view Macedonians too favorably at the moment..

You are clinging to some miracle that Albanians will assimilate but deep down you know there is no chance of that happening and we both know the country is fucked.

[poiuytrewq0987]

LOL, you keep saying that Albanians will assimilate into being Slav Macedonians but that will never happen. If the Maks couldn't have assimilate Albanians during the 20th century and during Yugo times what chance do you guys have now? Maks have tried assimilating Albanians during the Yugo times by forcibly changing their names, denying their language, forcing certain customs, etc, but that as we both know has failed. Not to mention Maks have also tried deporting Albanians to Turkey and to the West but Albanians are still there and growing might I add! The country is becoming increasingly segregated and Albanians don't really view Macedonians too favorably at the moment..

You are clinging to some miracle that Albanians will assimilate but deep down you know there is no chance of that happening and we both know the country is fucked.

Macedonia is not at all fucked. It is a rising star in the Balkans. :) Albanians will be assimilated like Albanians in Turkey were assimilated, Albanians/Arvanites in Greece were assimilated, etc... As long religion continues to lose importance, and economic situation in Macedonia gets better there's nothing stopping from Albanians being Macedonized. :)

[iNird]

Macedonia is not at all fucked. It is a rising star in the Balkans. :) Albanians will be assimilated like Albanians in Turkey were assimilated, Albanians/Arvanites in Greece were assimilated, etc... As long religion continues to lose importance, and economic situation in Macedonia gets better there's nothing stopping from Albanians being Macedonized. :)

Keep dreaming bud lol. Albanians are more integrated in the state, but assimilation is another task. There are so many different factors involving the groups you mentioned that I won't even beging to explain them to you. Wishful thinking or maybe it's just bad trolling. Not sure.

[RoyBatty]

Albanians will be assimilated like Albanians in Turkey were assimilated, Albanians/Arvanites in Greece were assimilated, etc...


Da stuff that dreams are made of. This will NEVER happen. Albanians have a strong national identity.



As long religion continues to lose importance, and economic situation in Macedonia gets better there's nothing stopping from Albanians being Macedonized. :)

More liberal Utopia wishful thinking.

Religion is part of the national identity in the Balkans and elsewhere. Even amongst so-called atheists and commies you're going to find "Orthodox" Commies, "Muslim" atheists etc :D

Albanians aren't retarded.

Why the fk are they going to buy into this Fyrom "Macedonia" clownshow? They know who they are, they know where they come from and where they're going. They have a national identity. They don't have to go round stealing Greek heroes and history claiming it as their own as part of some greater "Macedonian" fantasy.

He who has the numbers and who occupies the territory owns it! Demographics 101. I don't see much evidence of a Fyrom breeding program... do the math. Wake up to reality.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Da stuff that dreams are made of. This will NEVER happen. Albanians have a strong national identity.



More liberal Utopia wishful thinking.

Religion is part of the national identity in the Balkans and elsewhere. Even amongst so-called atheists and commies you're going to find "Orthodox" Commies, "Muslim" atheists etc :D

Albanians aren't retarded.

Why the fk are they going to buy into this Fyrom "Macedonia" clownshow? They know who they are, they know where they come from and where they're going. They have a national identity. They don't have to go round stealing Greek heroes and history claiming it as their own as part of some greater "Macedonian" fantasy.

He who has the numbers and who occupies the territory owns it! Demographics 101. I don't see much evidence of a Fyrom breeding program... do the math. Wake up to reality.

Newsflash, no one cares about a retarded Londoner "nazi drone"s opnion. :wave:

[Grizzly]

Newsflash, no one cares about a retarded Londoner "nazi drone". :wave:

He was spot on. Albanians will never assimilate in Macedonia.. Did you see what has happened this past year in Macedonia and all the trouble between the two sides? Two Albanians get murdered and Pandora's box is opened.. Some other arrests/deaths happen and half the country is protesting.. Albanians go hard

[Crn Volk]

Da stuff that dreams are made of. This will NEVER happen. Albanians have a strong national identity.



More liberal Utopia wishful thinking.

Religion is part of the national identity in the Balkans and elsewhere. Even amongst so-called atheists and commies you're going to find "Orthodox" Commies, "Muslim" atheists etc :D

Albanians aren't retarded.

Why the fk are they going to buy into this Fyrom "Macedonia" clownshow? They know who they are, they know where they come from and where they're going. They have a national identity. They don't have to go round stealing Greek heroes and history claiming it as their own as part of some greater "Macedonian" fantasy.

He who has the numbers and who occupies the territory owns it! Demographics 101. I don't see much evidence of a Fyrom breeding program... do the math. Wake up to reality.

Really? I see some of them now claiming to be 'true' ancient Macedonians....

[Aenoh]

I hope marriages between Albanians and Macedonians do occur as hopefully it will start some sort of peace between the two but I haven't heard of any Albanian(women) marrying a Macedonian man.. It's extremely rare..

Are you a Slavic bastard or a troll?You and your supposed "Balkan brotherhood" can fuck off.No Albanian says to Balkan Slavs "brother" as you do.

[Crn Volk]

Are you a Slavic bastard or a troll?You and your supposed "Balkan brotherhood" can fuck off.No Albanian says to Balkan Slavs "brother" as you do.

Really, not even Croats or Bulgars?

What's your real name Leo? Ahmed? Mohamed?

[Aenoh]

Really, not even Croats or Bulgars?

What's your real name Leo? Ahmed? Mohamed?

Ask your mother she named me.

Your women are just a playground for us anyway.;)

Grizzly is a retarded Albanian with dumb political views.

[Midori]

Ask your mother she named me.

Your women are just a playground for us anyway.;)

Grizzly is a retarded Albanian with dumb political views.

Hahaha, keep dreaming. The only Macedonian woman you could get is a prostitute.

[Aenoh]

Hahaha, keep dreaming. The only Macedonian woman you could get is a prostitute.

lulz i have seen dozens of them with Albanian man.

[Midori]

lulz i have seen dozens of them with Albanian man.

Those are mostly prostitutes. There were no girls at my school who had Albanian boyfriends. Besides, no Macedonian men want them after that anyway.

[Aenoh]

Those are mostly prostitutes. There were no girls at my school who had Albanian boyfriends. Besides, no Macedonian men want them after that anyway.

I guess then a big chunk of Mako womens are prostitutes.:p

Seriously no need to pretend i have seen with my own eyes.I am out of this thread anyway,boring to discuss this things.

[Midori]

I guess then a big chunk of Mako womens are prostitutes.:p

Seriously no need to pretend i have seen with my own eyes.I am out of this thread anyway,boring to discuss this things.

You are exaggerating. Like I said, none of the girls at my highscool had Albanian boyfriends (everybody would have known about it)

[iNird]

You are exaggerating. Like I said, none of the girls at my highscool had Albanian boyfriends (everybody would have known about it)

You claimed before:


Some Macedonian girls have Albo boyfriends just because they are known to have a lot of money.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=974073&postcount=46

:rolleyes:

[Grizzly]

Are you a Slavic bastard or a troll?You and your supposed "Balkan brotherhood" can fuck off.No Albanian says to Balkan Slavs "brother" as you do.

Fuck off keyboard warrior and use your fucking brain.I never called them as my brothers and if I did so what? I just wanted some cooperation between the two sides instead of the country turning into some war-zone which will further destabilize the country + region.. I simply stated that a few Albo/Maks weddings won't be the worst idea and it's better than some Albo marrying a Turk or some foreigner or some Mak marrying some random slav, etc.. They aren't that different from us..

[Grizzly]

You are exaggerating. Like I said, none of the girls at my highscool had Albanian boyfriends (everybody would have known about it)

Didn't you state that you live in a predominately Macedonian area and there weren't that many Albo's at your school/area?

[Midori]

You claimed before:



http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=974073&postcount=46

:rolleyes:

Exactly. They are gold diggers and whores.

[iNird]

Exactly. They are gold diggers and whores.

Sorry but I don't buy the BS. Besides many young females, let's say 15-25 have that type of mindset you are speaking of. Clubbing, buying expensive clothes, cafe hopping, let me find a rich boyfriend mentality. ;) You would know better but I'll just say it's not abnormal for Albanian guys to have Macedonian mistresses.

[Bugarash]

From the 2002 census

0-19 years of age by religion



Age

0-4
Orthodox 63.229
Muslims 57.208

5-9
Orthodox 73.384
Muslims 67.227

10-14
Orthodox 86.952
Muslims 70.443

15-19
Orthodox 98.253
Muslims 64.232

now things at the age structure/number ratio are probably 50/50

As I said,Macedonia is in front of a real scenario of becoming a majority muslim country.

[Crn Volk]

From the 2002 census

0-19 years of age by religion



now things at the age structure/number ratio are probably 50/50

As I said,Macedonia is in front of a real scenario of becoming a majority muslim country.

And your solution? Union with Bulgaria? Why, what are the Bulgars going to do stop the muslim expanse?

[Bugarash]

And your solution? Union with Bulgaria? Why, what are the Bulgars going to do stop the muslim expanse?

You think Bulgaria needs to import 800,000 albanians,turks,gypsies,bosniaks?
Man,Bulgaria doesnt even need to import the christian part,because she gains nothing,the only area that has some real potential and really worths something is Ohrid.

But if Macedonia unites with Bulgaria,the first thing that will change from the start is the % of albanians

Bulgaria+Macedonia=9,5 million people
albanians=0,5 million people
which means the albanian population in terms of % will decrease to about 5% of the total.:coffee:
not to mention they will become EU citizens and can freely work around the EU,and we all know that they are more likely to emigrate.

You will be the ones that ill benifit from such a union,federation,confderation or whatever,not Bulgaria.

While Macedonia being in the current situation is just like being in the woods with the wolfs.

[poiuytrewq0987]

You think Bulgaria needs to import 800,000 albanians,turks,gypsies,bosniaks?
Man,Bulgaria doesnt even need to import the christian part,because she gains nothing,the only area that has some real potential and really worths something is Ohrid.

But if Macedonia unites with Bulgaria,the first thing that will change from the start is the % of albanians

Bulgaria+Macedonia=9,5 million people
albanians=0,5 million people
which means the albanian population in terms of % will decrease to about 5% of the total.:coffee:
not to mention they will become EU citizens and can freely work around the EU,and we all know that they are more likely to emigrate.

You will be the ones that ill benifit from such a union,fedration,confderation or whatever,not Bulgaria.

While Macedonia being in the current situation is just like being in the woods with the wolfs.

Lol. Bulgaria WILL really benefit from a demographic boost that they can get from absorbing 1.3 million Macedonians and another 1.2 million globally. Bulgarians worldwide would go from 10 million to 12.5 million. A decent boost I would say... don't think we would only benefit from a possible union with Bulgaria. ;)

[Crn Volk]

You think Bulgaria needs to import 800,000 albanians,turks,gypsies,bosniaks?
Man,Bulgaria doesnt even need to import the christian part,because she gains nothing,the only area that has some real potential and really worths something is Ohrid.

But if Macedonia unites with Bulgaria,the first thing that will change from the start is the % of albanians

Bulgaria+Macedonia=9,5 million people
albanians=0,5 million people
which means the albanian population in terms of % will decrease to about 5% of the total.:coffee:
not to mention they will become EU citizens and can freely work around the EU,and we all know that they are more likely to emigrate.

You will be the ones that ill benifit from such a union,fedration,confderation or whatever,not Bulgaria.

While Macedonia being in the current situation is just like being in the woods with the wolfs.

and Macedonians will equate to about 14-15% of the population. what will bulgaria do with the Macedonians? If we go by the example of the Pirin Macedonians, they will be turned into bulgarians....In other words, annihilation/genocide of the Macedonians.....no thanks

[Bugarash]

and Macedonians will equate to about 14-15% of the population. what will bulgaria do with the Macedonians? If we go by the example of the Pirin Macedonians, they will be turned into bulgarians....In other words, annihilation/genocide of the Macedonians.....no thanks

That will take generations to be done.
and It's risky
It could be done in terms of easy assimilation if Macedonia becomes part of Serbia...but within Bulgaria it will go slowly...most of the population is brainwashed in it's views towards Bulgaria.

The smart thing to do would be:
Bulgaria can remain as it is,focus on it's economy aided by the help of the EU...while Macedonia spents years on talks about statues,does the statue of Prometheus need pants or not,name issue...and mark my words in some years from now,Bulgaria will become for the macedonians as it was during history.

The top country on the list for macedonian emigration.
The process has already started.

Dont forget that today in Bulgaria 1,5 million of the population has roots from Aegian or Vardar Macedonia-sons of the macedonian refugees;)

[Bugarash]

The real goals of Bulgaria was for bulgarism to prevail in Macedonia.That was important and not the queston of the destruction of the macedonian state.

Here is a little clue for you,in early 20 th centure Sofia there were at least 2 hotels with the name ''Macedonia''

Hotel ''Indipendent Macedonia''

'Независима Македония''-funny how did the antimacedonian bulgarian chauvisnist allow a hotel in the centre of Sofia to be named INDIEPENDENT Macedonia eh?

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/Makedonia5000/mluizdjtr.jpg


Grand Hotel Macedonia

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/Makedonia5000/4857-1.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bulgarism didn't "prevail", unfortunately, as Serbisms are common in Macedonia largely because of 100 years of Serbian rule over Macedonia. Our language and to a lesser extent culture has really been influenced by them. :(

[Archduke]

Lol. Bulgaria WILL really benefit from a demographic boost that they can get from absorbing 1.3 million Macedonians and another 1.2 million globally. Bulgarians worldwide would go from 10 million to 12.5 million. A decent boost I would say... don't think we would only benefit from a possible union with Bulgaria. ;)

Who said that Macedonians will become Bulgarians? If Macedonians want to be part of my nation - OK, we will not force you to become something else (we are not Serbs), but you know that Macedonians have negative views for Bulgarians so they will hardly become part of us, therefore Bulgaria will not benefit from this at all. I think that Bulgarians will accept to unite with Macedonia only because every Bulgarian knows that he had grandma/grandpa from there, that they had lands, houses etc. In one union like this, we will have more unemployment, more minorities, ~1 mln people who hate us...Macedonia will be EU member then, it will have sea, the problem with Albanians will be easily solved, also you will unite with your Pirin Macedonia...

[poiuytrewq0987]

Who said that Macedonians will become Bulgarians? If Macedonians want to be part of my nation - OK, we will not force you to become something else (we are not Serbs), but you know that Macedonians have negative views for Bulgarians so they will hardly become part of us, therefore Bulgaria will not benefit from this at all. I think that Bulgarians will accept to unite with Macedonia only because every Bulgarian knows that he had grandma/grandpa from there, that they had lands, houses etc. In one union like this, we will have more unemployment, more minorities, ~1 mln people who hate us...Macedonia will be EU member then, it will have sea, the problem with Albanians will be easily solved, also you will unite with your Pirin Macedonia...

95% of Macedonians don't want become Bulgarian. We definitely want to remain a separate people and country. Only those 50,000 Macedonians (3% of total Mac pop) who have already applied/got citizenship are ones who want to get Bulgarian identity while at the same time maintain their Macedonian identity...

I think we are better off separate rather than united anyhow. We'll be an Austria of sorts in the Balkans whereas you will be our Germany. ;) We need to improve our economies, our demographic picture, etc anyhow before we think of political union because two poor-performing countries won't make for one great-performing country...

I'm also not really worried about Albanians in the country despite all the fearmongering brought on by Bugarash. Our economy will continue to get better and Albanians will have less reason to separate from Macedonia and eventually they'll get assimilated. Integration of Albanians is only the first step and we have already accomplished that.

And Pirin Macedonia... :D I don't think many Macedonians live in Pirin region right now. Most of them identify as Bulgarian and those who don't are old folks. I could be wrong though... I'll visit the region one day and meet with Macedonians to get better knowledge of the situation there. ;)

[dralos]

lol you didny assimilate albanians atall,we're still kicking and screaming:D
and investing in fyrom without us fyrom would be demolished,and you know that too
you that albo diaspora and albs in fyrom keep fyrom alive

[Archduke]

lol you didny assimilate albanians atall,we're still kicking and screaming:D
and investing in fyrom without us fyrom would be demolished,and you know that too
you that albo diaspora and albs in fyrom keep fyrom alive

that's simply not true, how can the minority keep the country alive?

[dralos]

that's simply not true, how can the minority keep the country alive?
minority according to slavic statics,the difference isnt that big
bcs we have money wich we earned by working in the west,opening busiinesses we didnt get anything for free like the fyromians got,we had to earn it all and that made us more powerful,you just have to look around in albo areas and you see it for yourself
and not to forget all the money that diaspora albanians send back home,all fyromians know this,if you lived in fyrom you would know this too

[Archduke]

minority according to slavic statics,the difference isnt that big
bcs we have money wich we earned by working in the west,opening busiinesses we didnt get anything for free like the fyromians got,we had to earn it all and that made us more powerful,you just have to look around in albo areas and you see it for yourself
and not to forget all the money that diaspora albanians send back home,all fyromians know this,if you lived in fyrom you would know this too

The albo minority in FYROM is 25%. You mean that alboz are 40-50% of the country? No way! Overstatement, they are 30-35%.

You don't live in Macedonia too, from were did you know that alboz are that powerful there? Also, there is 1,2 mln Macedonian diaspora which also send money in FYROM.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The albo minority in FYROM is 25%. You mean that alboz are 40-50% of the country? No way! Overstatement, they are 30-35%.

You don't live in Macedonia too, from were did you know that alboz are that powerful there? Also, there is 1,2 mln Macedonian diaspora which also send money in FYROM.

We probably have the biggest diaspora ratio-wise in Europe. Can you find me a European country where HALF of the country's population is living abroad? We undoubtedly make a huge contribution, more than Albanians whose diaspora is more like 50,000 to 100,000 vs... 1.2 million diaspora! :lol:

[Archduke]

We probably have the biggest diaspora ratio-wise in Europe. Can you find me a European country where HALF of the country's population is living abroad? We undoubtedly make a huge contribution, more than Albanians whose diaspora is more like 50,000 to 100,000 vs... 1.2 million diaspora! :lol:

say this to dralos. :D

[Bugarash]

The albo minority in FYROM is 25%. You mean that alboz are 40-50% of the country? No way! Overstatement, they are 30-35%.

You don't live in Macedonia too, from were did you know that alboz are that powerful there? Also, there is 1,2 mln Macedonian diaspora which also send money in FYROM.

1,2 million macedonian diaspora?
funny how all the statistics say they arent more than 400,000 worldwide...

the albanians are investing the money back home while if a macedonian goes in Canada or Australia you can consider him as dead,he aint coming back.

Be real people
the albanian diaspora is many times more powerful than the macedonian one,you cant even compare the two!

[Archduke]

1,2 million macedonian diaspora?
funny how all the statistics say they arent more than 400,000 worldwide...

the albanians are investing the money back home while if a macedonian goes in Canada or Australia you can consider him as dead,he aint coming back.

Be real people
the albanian diaspora is many times more powerful than the macedonian one,you cant even compare the two!

That doesn't make sense, the total population of Macedonians is 2-2,5 million, while only 1,3 million of them live in Macedonia.

[Bugarash]

That doesn't make sense, the total population of Macedonians is 2-2,5 million, while only 1,3 million of them live in Macedonia.

Lol is your main source of information what wikipedia says?
sorry but I like to look at the OFFICIAL stats published by the state governments and recived through the population census.

And again,the macedonian diaspora is a joke,it has no influence.

You cant compare it with the albanians.
Their diaspora is not only bigger but fanatical as well.

You can see who is who if you travel around the macedonian and albanian villages.
the macedonian villages look like a bomb fell and everybody left,the macedonians in the diaspora dont invest in a single brick.

As for the albanians,well you know the situation.

[Grizzly]

We probably have the biggest diaspora ratio-wise in Europe. Can you find me a European country where HALF of the country's population is living abroad? We undoubtedly make a huge contribution, more than Albanians whose diaspora is more like 50,000 to 100,000 vs... 1.2 million diaspora! :lol:

I would estimate that at least 60% of the FYRMacedonian population abroad is Albanian. And what Bugarash said is completely true.. Most Albanians in Mak emigrate to Switzerland, Italy, Germany and USA while Macedonians mainly leave for Australia and never come back(There are exceptions of course)

[iNird]

Lol is your main source of information what wikipedia says?
sorry but I like to look at the OFFICIAL stats published by the state governments and recived through the population census.

And again,the macedonian diaspora is a joke,it has no influence.

You cant compare it with the albanians.
Their diaspora is not only bigger but fanatical as well.

You can see who is who if you travel around the macedonian and albanian villages.
the macedonian villages look like a bomb fell and everybody left,the macedonians in the diaspora dont invest in a single brick.

As for the albanians,well you know the situation.

This is pretty much spot on. And lol at 1.2 millions abroad. Australia barely has 100k self declared Macedonians to use as an example.....

Though I will say the mako diaspora seem to have better organizations but these organization don't do much...though in reality they are powerless

[Vojnik]

Lol is your main source of information what wikipedia says?
sorry but I like to look at the OFFICIAL stats published by the state governments and recived through the population census.

And again,the macedonian diaspora is a joke,it has no influence.

You cant compare it with the albanians.
Their diaspora is not only bigger but fanatical as well.

You can see who is who if you travel around the macedonian and albanian villages.
the macedonian villages look like a bomb fell and everybody left,the macedonians in the diaspora dont invest in a single brick.

As for the albanians,well you know the situation.



Lol is your main source of information what wikipedia says?
sorry but I like to look at the OFFICIAL stats published by the state governments and recived through the population census.

And again,the macedonian diaspora is a joke,it has no influence.

You cant compare it with the albanians.
Their diaspora is not only bigger but fanatical as well.

You can see who is who if you travel around the macedonian and albanian villages.
the macedonian villages look like a bomb fell and everybody left,the macedonians in the diaspora dont invest in a single brick.

As for the albanians,well you know the situation.

The Macedonian Diaspora is not a joke. We have many well respected Organisations and Committees within our community, such as: AHAM (Australian Humanitarian Aid for Macedonia), AMHRC (Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee), UMD (United Macedonian Diaspora), MHRMI (Macedonian Human Rights Movement International).....

http://www.multicultural.vic.gov.au/resources/community-directory/australian-humanitarian-aid-for-macedonia

http://www.macedonianhr.org.au/

http://www.umdiaspora.org/

http://www.mhrmi.org/

Among many more. We have many Football clubs, social clubs, community centres, restaurants, shops and alot of Churches and Monasteries.

The Macedonian language is taught in a few Primary/Elimentary Schools and High Schools.

In Australia, Macedonians are known by many to be very hard workers, one of the hardest! We also have some Politicians at the local level.

We are great contributors to Australian society and we also contribute to giving money back to the motherland through community Gatherings and fund raisers.

It really insults me that your think of the Macedonian diaspora as a joke.

[Bugarash]

I don't know what result you accomplished...
You send money? lol

Man,people in Macedonia get angry when they hear you from Asutralia or Canada barking about national questions and how patriotic you are.

[morski]

This is pretty much spot on. And lol at 1.2 millions abroad. Australia barely has 100k self declared Macedonians to use as an example.....

Though I will say the mako diaspora seem to have better organizations but these organization don't do much...though in reality they are powerless

The mako diaspora in Bulgaria managed to involve the country in 4 wars in under 30 years, which brought upon us 2 natioanl catastrophes. So, they at least used to be very powerful.:)

[poiuytrewq0987]

The mako diaspora in Bulgaria managed to involve the country in 4 wars in under 30 years, which brought upon us 2 natioanl catastrophes. So, they at least used to be very powerful.:)

Funny how we used to be Bulgaria's biggest patriots but now... :coffee:

[Vojnik]

The mako diaspora in Bulgaria managed to involve the country in 4 wars in under 30 years, which brought upon us 2 natioanl catastrophes. So, they at least used to be very powerful.:)

Any idea how these Macedonians of Bulgaria came about? why don't they identify as Bulgarians? :rolleyes:

http://www.omoilindenpirin.org/

And why isn't their political party recognized?

[morski]

Any idea how these Macedonians of Bulgaria came about? why don't they identify as Bulgarians? :rolleyes:

http://www.omoilindenpirin.org/

And why isn't their political party recognized?

How is that relevant to my post?

[Vojnik]

I don't know what result you accomplished...
You send money? lol

Man,people in Macedonia get angry when they hear you from Asutralia or Canada barking about national questions and how patriotic you are.

We don't brag on how patriotic we are you idiot. But we do like to voice our opinions on matters regarding Macedonia and Macedonians. I know that the people from the republic don't like it but we don't care.

[Vojnik]

How is that relevant to my post?

You mentioned "mako's in Bulgaria" so I thought I would ask that question. I was just wondering what your opinion is. :)

[morski]

You mentioned "mako's in Bulgaria" so I thought I would ask that question.

I was refering to the immigrants from Ottoman Macedonia in the Principality and their political influence.

[poiuytrewq0987]

You mentioned "mako's in Bulgaria" so I thought I would ask that question. I was just wondering what your opinion is. :)

My opinion, they don't exist, aside for a few oldies who bought into communist propaganda. The reason why you only see old people at OMO Ilinden gatherings. But this isn't on-topic, Morski was talking about our diaspora's influence when we were still under Turkish rule.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I was refering to the immigrants from Ottoman Macedonia in the Principality and their political influence.

We probably had the most powerful Balkans diaspora second only to the Greeks. But unfortunately a lot of the diaspora's energy is being directed in the wrong place. Our influence could be so much more and possibly even regain its former strength if only we stop preaching separatism.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The Macedonian Diaspora is not a joke. We have many well respected Organisations and Committees within our community, such as: AHAM (Australian Humanitarian Aid for Macedonia), AMHRC (Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee), UMD (United Macedonian Diaspora), MHRMI (Macedonian Human Rights Movement International).....

http://www.multicultural.vic.gov.au/resources/community-directory/australian-humanitarian-aid-for-macedonia

http://www.macedonianhr.org.au/

http://www.umdiaspora.org/

http://www.mhrmi.org/

Among many more. We have many Football clubs, social clubs, community centres, restaurants, shops and alot of Churches and Monasteries.

The Macedonian language is taught in a few Primary/Elimentary Schools and High Schools.

In Australia, Macedonians are known by many to be very hard workers, one of the hardest! We also have some Politicians at the local level.

We are great contributors to Australian society and we also contribute to giving money back to the motherland through community Gatherings and fund raisers.

It really insults me that your think of the Macedonian diaspora as a joke.

I used to be a member of UMD but for $50/year of membership all I got was a bunch of stupid emails... thought it was a waste of my money. Obviously they do more in person but I expected a magazine or something bit more. :wink

[morski]

We probably had the most powerful Balkans diaspora second only to the Greeks. But unfortunately a lot of the diaspora's energy is being directed in the wrong place. Our influence could be so much more and possibly even regain its former strength if only we stop preaching separatism.

MPO is the oldest existing organisation of the diaspora in North America and is still effective as far as I know.

[poiuytrewq0987]

MPO is the oldest exsisting organisation of the diaspora in North America and is still effective as far as I know.

Isn't MPO a Macedonist organization these days?

[morski]

Isn't MPO a Macedonist organization these days?

They have a Macedonist faction, but most of them adhere to the old ideas I believe.

[poiuytrewq0987]

They have a Macedonist faction, but most of them adhere to the old ideas I believe.

I don't think they even espouse Bulgarian views anymore. They are all Macedonists. I don't see anything on their website that says otherwise.

Though it seems like there was some kind of an ideological war between Macedonists and Bulgarians in the MPO.


The last but one President of the Central Committee G. Lebamoff sharply criticized the policy of Republic of Macedonia stating, by this way, hiding the truth about the Bulgarian roots and history of the Macedonian people, it has no future.[8] However on the 2009 convention of MPO, the past president of the Central Committee A. Alusheff illegally expelled MPO "Switzerland of the Balkans" from the MPO for pro-Bulgarian bias.[9] Once Alusheff's mandate expired, the new Central Committee reinstated MPO "Switzerland of the Balkans" asking the chapter to continue its work on restoring the MPO’s historical roots. On the other hand a former chapter of MPO from Toronto called "Luben Dimitroff",[10] splintered previously from the Canadian MPO and started publishing another Macedonian Tribune[11] in the pre-World War II Bulgarian orthography, espousing pro-Bulgarian views. This publication has been dismissed as unauthorized by the Macedonian Patriotic Organization.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Patriotic_Organization#cite_note-0

[morski]

I don't think they even espouse Bulgarian views anymore. They are all Macedonists. I don't see anything on their website that says otherwise.

Though it seems like there was some kind of an ideological war between Macedonists and Bulgarians in the MPO.

There is some controversy among their ranks indeed. Not sure what's the present situation like.

[Crn Volk]

There is some controversy among their ranks indeed. Not sure what's the present situation like.

The organisation is dying. UMD is king these days!

[iNird]

The organisation is dying. UMD is king these days!

What has this organization done? They seem like a joke and a chance for diasporians to beat their chest and show how patriotic they are and ridicule the actual people that live in the country as traitors or so forth. Ofc I'm generalizing to a bit but I see these organizations as a joke......

[Crn Volk]

What has this organization done? They seem like a joke and a chance for diasporians to beat their chest and show how patriotic they are and ridicule the actual people that live in the country as traitors or so forth. Ofc I'm generalizing to a bit but I see these organizations as a joke......


they are great lobbyists for starters, something the Macedonians were lacking, unlike you guys and the greeks who were a step ahead of us.

[Bugarash]

MPO dying? lol

if only the macedonist biggots had the tradition,history and property the MPO owns...

[Crn Volk]

MPO dying? lol

if only the macedonist biggots had the tradition,history and property the MPO owns...

Second oldest Macedono-Bulgarian Church in the USA closes....

http://blog.pennlive.com/life/2012/06/closing_church_like_losing_you.html

The Macedonian Orthodox Church in North America on the other hand goes from strength to strength....

http://www.akmpe.org/index.php

[Bugarash 1893]

I thought Skopje is in a better situation than at first sight but as the date of mechanic influx came out we can see that it is far from enough to keep the shares at least stable.

Skopje is under serious albanian threat,even the arrival of macedonians from other parts of Macedonia cant influence much on things:

Latest date from 2011


Moved in to Skopje:

Macedonians : 1485
Albanians : 163


Moved out of Skopje:

Macedonians : 995
Albanians : 147

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5186/doseleni.jpg

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7884/otseleni.jpg

[Crn Volk]

Skopje has a population of over 500,000 people. These are pissy little numbers you talk about.

[Bugarash 1893]

Skopje has a population of over 500,000 people. These are pissy little numbers you talk about.

Here is why I say that,here is the date for the natural increase for the last 4 years.

City of Skopje

Births/Deaths for 2008-2009-2010-2011


Macedonians

3.327 / 3.503
3.417 / 3.495
3.443 / 3.558
3.290 / 3.545


Albanians

1.974 / 619
2.030 / 656
2.240 / 636
2.194 / 637


Roma

655 / 186
701 / 200
687 / 186
641 / 204


Serbs

47 / 94
61 / 89
42 / 130
43 / 141


Turks

108 / 28
100 / 38
72 / 37
96 / 29


Bosniaks

73 / 37
89 / 34
81 / 36
85 / 41

As you can see,the +500 mechanic influx of Macedonians coming from other parts of the country cant help much.

Dont want to show you how things would look if we count in the municipalities around the borders of the City of Skopje...then things will get even more dramatic.

[Midori]

Skopje has a population of over 500,000 people.

Nowadays it's much more than that..

[Crn Volk]

and your point bugarash? bulgaria is going to save us? bulgaria can't save itself as it is usurped by gypsies and turks..

[Guapo]

Can't wait, then bulgaria will be the 4th Albanian state, they're getting closer to Sofia like locusts. Happy, islam loving bugarash bitch??

[Bugarash 1893]

and your point bugarash? bulgaria is going to save us? bulgaria can't save itself as it is usurped by gypsies and turks..

Dont worry about Bulgaria...
There were periods in Bulgaria-nonottoman Bulgaria but indipendent Bulgaria when turks were 30% of the population but it remained Bulgaria!

Let us not go into that debate because you lose.

Look at the situation we have here,it is a very serious situation.
A situation even Bulgaria wouldnt be able to save us even if she wanted.

[Bugarash 1893]

Can't wait, then bulgaria will be the 4th Albanian state, they're getting closer to Sofia like locusts. Happy, islam loving bugarash bitch??

Bulgaria isnt Macedonia...
In Macedonia we have 20 years of indipendence and on half way of that period the albanians already stuck the macedonians in a bottle.

If Macedonia remained with Bulgaria and not with Serbia,I guarantee you,there wouldnt be an albanian problem.

[Guapo]

If Macedonia remained with Bulgaria and not with Serbia,I guarantee you,there wouldnt be an albanian problem.
:picard1:

[Bugarash 1893]

Nowadays it's much more than that..

And how many of those ''much more than that'' are macedonians?

[Grizzly]

Skopje has a population of over 500,000 people. These are pissy little numbers you talk about.

But you got to take in consideration that 1500 people are entering Skopje from elsewhere and that number is probably a majority of younger people looking for work/school/etc. It's not huge but the age demographics of some areas are going to slowly increase if that continues.

[Bugarash 1893]

Just look at the municipality of Cair for 2011

You can see that macedonians are getting the F out of here

Birth/Deaths


Macedonians 93/199
Albanians 781/268
Turks 49/14
Bosniaks 36/18
Roma 62/29
Serbs 2/9
Vlachs 0/0

And If we add the mechanic increase/decrease

Macedonians moved into Cair 30
Macedonians moved out of Cair 102

[Crn Volk]

Just look at the municipality of Cair for 2011

You can see that macedonians are getting the F out of here

Birth/Deaths



And If we add the mechanic increase/decrease

Macedonians moved into Cair 30
Macedonians moved out of Cair 102

Cair is already majority Albanian;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality_of_%C4%8Cair_(Skopje)

[rashka]

If Macedonia remained with Bulgaria and not with Serbia,I guarantee you,there wouldnt be an albanian problem.

With that statement you are agreeing that there is an overall Albanian problem... so much for the Bulgarian-Albanian alliance.

[Bugarash 1893]

With that statement you are agreeing that there is an overall Albanian problem... so much for the Bulgarian-Albanian alliance.

No doubt that if Bulgaria and the albanians shared a comon border they would have gone to war.

But in the balkans is always the countries that dont border that are best friends:D

[Bugarash 1893]

Cair is already majority Albanian;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality_of_%C4%8Cair_(Skopje)

It had a majority but now it has an absolute majority.

[Crn Volk]

It had a majority but now it has an absolute majority.

Oh well, it is surrounded by Macedonian-majority municipalities.

[Bugarash 1893]

And thats a fact that makes us all feel better.

[Anusiya]

It would have made much more sense if Slavs and Bulgarians went back to their respective countries and Albanians re-settled to their ancestral lands, but because of the fact that it is the Balkans, the Albanians don't remember their history, the Bulgarians ought to their turco-genetics play "finders keepers", and Serbians still hold fast to their swimming in the Aegean dream. That' great guys, way to go, had it been the other way and you held a more rational stance, you would be in the EU much earlier. Now enjoy your Borat-style settlements and get ready to kiss Germanic white bumm for once more. You like that don't you? Being called nordic "brothers-something-something" (for a fistfull of dollars).

[rashka]

and Serbians still hold fast to their swimming in the Aegean dream.
:ffaces: You can keep your lobsters.

[Crn Volk]

It would have made much more sense if Slavs and Bulgarians went back to their respective countries and Albanians re-settled to their ancestral lands, but because of the fact that it is the Balkans, the Albanians don't remember their history, the Bulgarians ought to their turco-genetics play "finders keepers", and Serbians still hold fast to their swimming in the Aegean dream. That' great guys, way to go, had it been the other way and you held a more rational stance, you would be in the EU much earlier. Now enjoy your Borat-style settlements and get ready to kiss Germanic white bumm for once more. You like that don't you? Being called nordic "brothers-something-something" (for a fistfull of dollars).

Yes, you know all about kissing german azz....time to pay for your looseness..

[Anusiya]

Yes, you know all about kissing german azz....time to pay for your looseness..

We'll get by somehow. Trading, subsidising commodities ample in our land, tourism, marine services. Good luck! :thumb001:

So you agree you are occupying other people's lands?

[Bugarash 1893]

It would have made much more sense if Slavs and Bulgarians went back to their respective countries and Albanians re-settled to their ancestral lands, but because of the fact that it is the Balkans, the Albanians don't remember their history, the Bulgarians ought to their turco-genetics play "finders keepers", and Serbians still hold fast to their swimming in the Aegean dream. That' great guys, way to go, had it been the other way and you held a more rational stance, you would be in the EU much earlier. Now enjoy your Borat-style settlements and get ready to kiss Germanic white bumm for once more. You like that don't you? Being called nordic "brothers-something-something" (for a fistfull of dollars).

Lets cut the bs and get right to the chase...
When will you return Western Thrace and Aegean Macedonia?

[Anusiya]

When will you return Western Thrace and Aegean Macedonia?

Sounds rather disturbing and provocative when you use regional names of a foreign to you nature. Leaving aside "Aegean Macedonia", how many times was your bottom served when attempting to annex Western Thrace? You were given the region by the nazis once, but you are incapable of taking it yourself, so why bother taking something you already know is not yours?

Alas, my friend, this is the bs that may have been handy.

[morski]

Sounds rather disturbing and provocative when you use regional names of a foreign to you nature. Leaving aside "Aegean Macedonia", how many times was your bottom served when attempting to annex Western Thrace? You were given the region by the nazis once, but you are incapable of taking it yourself, so why bother taking something you already know is not yours?

Alas, my friend, this is the bs that may have been handy.

We fought for it and won it in 1912. It was given to you by the Antante in 1919.

[Anusiya]

We fought for it and won it in 1912. It was given to you by the Antante in 1919.

We fought for it. :p

[Bugarash 1893]

Cair is already majority Albanian;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality_of_%C4%8Cair_(Skopje)

Dont worry,albanians dont have the demographic capacity to become the majority in Macedonia.My guess is that they will reach 35% and stabilize.

If the deported ones to Turkey were still here and if it wasnt for the refugees from Aegean Macedonia who came after the civil war in Greece then it would indeed be a tricky situation.There are some other factors that could have influenced but lets stick just to those two.

But the real threat comes from the albanians together with all the other muslim minorities.

The threat of Macedonia becoming a islamic state by the end of this decade is real.

2012 started even worse.
VMRO-NP party came out with a declaration where they stated that 2012 will be the year when we will have more muslim nirths than christian ones.

http://vmro-np.org.mk/?p=2327

Births by ethnic affiliation and their % of the total:


2008 : 22.945 total

Macedonians 12.245 (53.37 %)
Albanians 7.309 (31.85 %)
Roma 1.558 (6.79 %)
Turks 979 (4.27 %)
Bosnians 193 (0.84 %)
Serbs 138 (0.60 %)

2009 : 23.684

Macedonians 12.490 (52.74 %)
Albanians 7.454 (31.47 %)
Roma 1.749 (7.38 %)
Turks 1.087 (4.59 %)
Bosnians 193 (0.81 %)
Serbs 128 (0.54 %)

2010 : 24.296

Macedonians 12.658 (52.10 %)
Albanians 7.888 (32.47 %)
Roma 1.806 (7.43 %)
Turks 1.080 (4.45 %)
Bosniaks 192 (0.79 %)
Serbs 109 (0.45 %)

2011 : 22.770

Macedonians 11.544 (50.70 %)
Albanians 7.727 (33.94 %)
Roma 1.574 (6.91 %)
Turks 1.046 (4.59 %)
Bosnians 213 (0.94 %)
Serbs 111 (0.49 %)

Another plus for the macedonians is the massive assimilation of the serbs and vlachs into the macedonian body.

[Bugarash 1893]

We olso have the entire detailed info for 2011

I would like to start with the Kumanovo municipality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/MKD_muni_nonn%28Kumanovo%29.png

Births/Deaths for the years 2008-2009-2010-2011


Macedonians

658/704
726/691
703/720
648/741


Albanians

443/160
430/124
443/129
433/195


Roma

104/32
142/27
173/37
125/27


Serbs

25/84
26/79
23/105
29/102

The serbs have a very low birth rate especially if we see that back in 2002 they were 8,6% of the total population.Thats because they are being assimilated by the macedonians.

[Bugarash 1893]

The second majority albanian municipality of Skopje and the place where if Macedonia was devided the borderline should have gone through,cutting it off from the rest of Skopje of course:)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Map_of_Saraj_Municipality%2C_Macedonia.svg

Saraj 2011

Births/Deaths


Macedonians 6/28
Albanians 606/157

[Bugarash 1893]

Tetovo and Gostivar arent doing as bad as I thought,we can see that in Gostivar many albanians have emigrated abroad...

According to the statistics,little more than 500 macedonian citizens from Gostivar municipalitie were born abroad!-high majority of which are probably albanians.

Thats like half being borned here and half abroad!
So just think how things would have looked like if the albanians didint have such a high emigration rate.

Tetovo 2011

Births/Deaths


Macedonians 175/235
Albanians 885/408
Turks 27/24
Roma 49/20


Gostivar 2011

Births/Deaths


Macedonians 151/177
Albanians 537/391
Turks 81/51
Roma 55/12

[Crn Volk]

You seem worried Bugarash. Relax, get a life. It will all be OK. If not, don't worry you'll always have Bulgaria, or will you?

http://www.mercatornet.com/demography/view/10226

[Bugarash 1893]

You seem worried Bugarash. Relax, get a life. It will all be OK. If not, don't worry you'll always have Bulgaria, or will you?

http://www.mercatornet.com/demography/view/10226

I have mixed feelings.
Albanians are a good tool to keep Macedonia destabilized but on the other hand they have started spreading in territories which should belong sometime in the future to Bulgaria.

As for the link.
Bulgaria is facing the same problems as all of Europe.
The aging population is a bigger problem in western states than in Bulgaria btw.

It's all good and it will be fixed once the standard of living reaches the one of a middle income economy which according to the IMF will happen in 2017.

Not only it will stop the emigration of people abroad,not only it will increase the birth rates but it will be enough to attract the bulgarians from abroad and problem solved.

Olso in our favor is the fact that the biggest bulgarian communities abroad can be found eather in countries with a lower standard of living than Bulgaria-the native bulgarian populations in Ukraine,Moldova,Macedonia...or,the new wave of economic emigration that is in countries like Spain,Greece,Cyprus...countries who are in a downfall.

Or just bring in 1 million ukrainians,assimilate them within a generation and again,problem solved.

And son,dont try to go into a fight debate with me,Im the demographic master,I know everything.:cool:

[Crn Volk]

Keep dreaming

[Bugarash 1893]

Keep dreaming

I never dream I always talk about things that are based on facts.

As for the other aspects...
The albanians and Greece are our indirect allies in this situation.
If Macedonia is stable,if she enter the EU,NATO...that ancient macedonian madness,serbomania,antibulgarian propaganda will only accelerate.

[Bugarash 1893]

The bad thing is that the number of macedonians in the border areas with Bulgaria is decreasing.

The population in these regions is even now influenced by Bulgaria in terms of economic relations...the more people living there the better.Bulgaria should ratake it's role as the most favorite country for Macedonians to emigrate to.

Pehcevo Municipality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/MKD_muni_nonn%28Pehchevo%29.png

According to the 2002 census:


Macedonians = 4,737 (85.9%)
Roma = 390 (7.1%)
Turks = 357 (6.5%)

Births/Deaths 2008-2009-2020-2011


Macedonians

51/86
32/64
27/69
27/70


Roma

10/3
6/3
8/4
7/6


Turks

4/4
5/3
5/5
3/1

[Grizzly]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28093519.jpg

[Bugarash 1893]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28093854.jpg

[Crn Volk]

Albanians and Bulgarians - a match made in heaven;

http://www.grreporter.info/en/albanian-buys-bulgarian-girl-%E2%82%AC2000-sell-prostitute/1114

[Crn Volk]

The bad thing is that the number of macedonians in the border areas with Bulgaria is decreasing.

The population in these regions is even now influenced by Bulgaria in terms of economic relations...the more people living there the better.Bulgaria should ratake it's role as the most favorite country for Macedonians to emigrate to.

Pehcevo Municipality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/MKD_muni_nonn%28Pehchevo%29.png

According to the 2002 census:



Births/Deaths 2008-2009-2020-2011

I hear alot of older Macedonian bachelors importing Albanian wives in these parts, and there is a mini population boom happening as a result. The women speak Macedonian and their kids are baptised in Macedonian churches and have Macedonian names etc.

[rashka]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28093854.jpg

The only drama I see is Bugarash playing internet politician/lawyer. :lol:

[Bugarash 1893]

I hear alot of older Macedonian bachelors importing Albanian wives in these parts, and there is a mini population boom happening as a result. The women speak Macedonian and their kids are baptised in Macedonian churches and have Macedonian names etc.

For 2011 we have 150 albanian women married to macedonians.-almost all wifes from Albania.For Pehcevo in this case,0 children born to albanian mothers for the last 4 years.

That is a trend mainly in the region of Prilep.

[Bugarash 1893]

Albanians and Bulgarians - a match made in heaven;

http://www.grreporter.info/en/albanian-buys-bulgarian-girl-%E2%82%AC2000-sell-prostitute/1114

When you hear bough a girl,sold a baby,gave birth at 12 years old...know it is a gypsy.

[Crn Volk]

For 2011 we have 150 albanian women married to macedonians.-almost all wifes from Albania.For Pehcevo in this case,0 children born to albanian mothers for the last 4 years.

That is a trend mainly in the region of Prilep.

I know of many in Bitolsko too. Maybe your source in not capturing these.

[Bugarash 1893]

I know of many in Bitolsko too. Maybe your source in not capturing these.

Im saying that most are in Prilep region,dont want to search for the info now and go into details.Bitola comes second.

And 95% of the brides from Albania are married in Pelagonia.

[Bugarash 1893]

The only drama I see is Bugarash playing internet politician/lawyer. :lol:

You again.
Im starting to think that you want something out of me:D

[Crn Volk]

Im saying that most are in Prilep region,dont want to search for the info now and go into details.Bitola comes second.

And 95% of the brides from Albania are married in Pelagonia.

Yeah, we really do need numbers on these. I hope you're not using the same source of data that says there are no bulgarians in Macedonia. That would b ironic wouldn't it :thumb001:

[Bugarash 1893]

Albanians in Veles have a explosive growth.

It is interesting that this situation is the same through the albanian areas in Central Macedonia...they have the strongest growth.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/MKD_muni_nonn%28Veles%29.png

According to the 2002 census:


Macedonians 46.767 - 84,9%
Albanians 2.299 - 4,2%
Turks 1.724 - 3,1%
Roma 800 - 1,5%
Bosnians 2.406 - 4,4%
Serbs 540 - 1,0%

Births/Deaths 2008-2009-2010-2011



Macedonians

450/512
420/538
431/503
399/511


Albanians

75/16
72/16
96/13
68/10


Turks

14/17
31/12
21/14
20/14


Roma

51/5
47/11
41/10
38/12


Bosnians

18/20
26/16
20/3
25/12


Serbs

1/10
2/14
4/9
2/12

[Bugarash 1893]

I will get to the rest of Central Macedonia later...

I would focus now on the municipality of Debarca.
One day the albanians will want to attach the municipality of Debarca with Struga-mark my words.

This is the municipality with the second largest drop in Macedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Debarca_map-mk.png

According to the 2002 census:


Macedonians were 5.324 - 96,7%

Births/Deaths 2008-2009-2010-2011

Macedonians


37/125
26/102
31/111
28/127