High Mongolian DNA in Europeans/ North Caucasus

[ButlerKing]

I'm surprised by how high the Mongolian DNA is North Caucasus which is today's modern day Southern Russia compared with ethnic Slavs like Russians.
This means that Mongols did leave significant genetic impact in parts of Europe.

The Caucasus as an asymmetric semipermeable barrier to ancient human migrations

Bayazit Yunusbayev et al.

Abstract

" The Caucasus, inhabited by modern humans since the Early Upper Paleolithic and known for its linguistic diversity, is considered to be important for understanding human dispersals and genetic diversity in Eurasia. We report a synthesis of autosomal, Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation in populations from all major subregions and linguistic phyla of the area. Autosomal genome variation in the Caucasus reveals significant genetic uniformity among its ethnically and linguistically diverse populations, and is consistent with predominantly Near/Middle Eastern origin of the Caucasians, with minor external impacts. In contrast to autosomal and mtDNA variation, signals of regional Y chromosome founder effects distinguish the eastern from western North Caucasians. Genetic discontinuity between the North Caucasus and the East European Plain contrasts with continuity through Anatolia and the Balkans, suggesting major routes of ancient gene flows and admixture. "

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3F6BqRJ6xl0/TnDt35U9quI/AAAAAAAAEHs/jbFjkOzRV5o/s1600/caucasus-ychrom.png

http://www.mapsofworld.com/europe-country-groupings/eastern-europe-map.jpg

North East Caucasian ethnic

Tabasaran 43 samples, 3 C3 = 6.97%

North West Caucasian ethnic

Adyghe 154 samples, 1 C3c and 3 C3 = 2.59%
Cherkessians 126 sampes, 1 C3 = 0.79%
Karbadin 140 samples, 3 C3 = 2.40%

North East Central Caucasian ethnic

Kuban Nogays 87 samples , 5 C3 and 2 C3c and 3 O3 = 11.49%
Kara Nogays 76 samples, 8 C3 and 4 O3 = 15.78%

South Caucasus

Abazinians 14 samples, 1 C3 = 7%

Tabasaran
http://www.kaukaz.net/images/kaukaz_niemowlak/dag422_tabasaran.jpg

Adyghe
http://www.circassianworld.com/new/images/stories/Articles/Circassian_Girl_Israel.jpg

Karbadin
http://photo2.eng.kavkaz-uzel.ru/system/attachments/0000/1868/participants1_view.JPG

[ButlerKing]

Compare Russians with North Caucasus
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/table/tbl2/

403 Russian samples, 3 Russians with haplogroup C3.

Roslavl haplogroup C3 0.9%
Belgorod C3 0.7%

Both Roslavl and Belgorod have highest number of samples by far out of all Southern Russia and Central Russia provinces. So the average Russian slavs will have 0.7 to 0.9% C3. That's not a lot but considering Russia massive population it's more than enough but most of the genetic impact was mostly to some North Caucasian and some Tatars minorities.

It's no surprising if there is Mongol DNA in Europe since Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Crimea, North Caucasus was under the direct rule of Mongol Empire. It's vassal states also included Poland, Estonians, Hungary, Latvians, Moldova. So it won't be surprising if Haplogroup C3 was found there either.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Golden_Horde.png

[evon]

The presence of Mongolian-Tatar DNA in the Northern Caucasus is no surprise, there are even people speaking a Mongolic language there today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmyk_people

One also sees this in various admixture runs that have been done suing both Eurogenes and Dodecad projects.

[ButlerKing]

The presence of Mongolian-Tatar DNA in the Northern Caucasus is no surprise, there are even people speaking a Mongolic language there today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmyk_people

One also sees this in various admixture runs that have been done suing both Eurogenes and Dodecad projects.

Yes but I seriously doubt Kamlyks is responsible for any of it because Mongolian paternal DNA is 19% among Crimean Tatars but 0% of mongol maternal DNA. The Kamlyks never migrated there to or had any connections with them only the Mongols were there.

Elizabeth E Marchani1, W Scott Watkins2, Kazima Bulayeva3, Henry C Harpending1 and Lynn B Jorde2*

Y-DNA of Crimeans Tatars

I - 5%
F (F*xH,I,J2) - 18%
R1a1 - 32%
R1a - 9%
J2 - 14%
E1b - 5%
C3 - 9%
O3 - 5%
O (O*xO3) - 5%

mtDNA of Crimean Tatars

HV - 20%
J - 10%
K - 10%
N - 10%
T - 30%
U1 - 5%
U3 - 10%
U4 - 5%

Here are some Crimean Tatars

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4760135549_3351029864_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4262256659_6d05d90fab_o.jpg


Now take a look at these Crimean Tatars
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_n2UJhp1Z9QM/Rlhc_JU_M-I/AAAAAAAAAzs/-hrX7SOCawA/s400/BobpPix07+214.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/s40sd4.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Europe/IMG_3964.jpg


19-23% East Asian Mongoloid Y-DNA like 13% C3 and 6% O3.
39% East Asian mtDNA.

BMC Genetics | Full text | Culture creates genetic structure in the Caucasus: Autosomal, mitochondrial, and Y-chromosomal variation in Daghestan (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/9/47)
http://i39.tinypic.com/18dnr6.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/dw3rit.jpg

[evon]

Crimea is not North Caucasus ;)

[ButlerKing]

Crimea is not North Caucasus ;)

Of course it's not caucasus but what I meant was that haplogroup C3 in Crimea couldn't possibly have came from the Kamlyks since they've never been there.
Kamlyks also didn't intermarried with any groups.

[evon]

Of course it's not caucasus but what I meant was that haplogroup C3 in Crimea couldn't possibly have came from the Kamlyks since they've never been there.
Kamlyks also didn't intermarried with any groups.

No, but the very fact that they are in that region in such a great number, goes to show that it has had a great Mongol influence.

[Onur]

haplogroup C3 in Crimea couldn't possibly have came from the Kamlyks since they've never been there.
Most of the C3 Mongols among Tatars are surely turkified Mongolians from Genghis Khan era.

Mongolians are one of the most assimilated peoples in the world because after the expansion of Ghengis Khan, most of them assimilated among the majority groups and quickly disappeared. They became Tatars, Ugyurs, Chinese, Afghans, Turkmens. This is an historical fact.

[Lisa]

...

[StonyArabia]

Yes it's true Adyghes have Mongoloid blood, but it's not high. It's similar to that of Anatolian Turks. As well there are many Adyghes who show slight Turanid influence, and appears strongly more among females. The reason for this because the Adyghes often intermarried with the Crimeans. It was the Crimeans who brought Islam to the Adyghe tribes. Many Crimean Khans had Adyghe consorts.

[alfieb]

Yes it's true Adyghes have Mongoloid blood

So there. For the last time, you're not whiter than us. :icon_yawn:

[ButlerKing]

Yes it's true Adyghes have Mongoloid blood, but it's not high. It's similar to that of Anatolian Turks. As well there are many Adyghes who show slight Turanid influence, and appears strongly more among females. The reason for this because the Adyghes often intermarried with the Crimeans. It was the Crimeans who brought Islam to the Adyghe tribes. Many Crimean Khans had Adyghe consorts.

There is very little evidence of mongoloid DNA being attributed to Crimeans. It's more like the Nogais of Caucasus since they are a hybrid between Mongoloid and North Caucasus


http://photo1.kavkaz-uzel.ru/system/attachments/0003/0328/new_view.jpg

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Nogais are not European/Caucasian people .

[evon]

Nogais are not European/Caucasian people .

Europe in Grey:
http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eunewneb.gif

Nogais location:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Caucasus-ethnic_de_150dpi.png

Hence they are from Europe/Caucasus.

[AndersP]

Autosomal genome variation in the Caucasus reveals significant genetic uniformity among its ethnically and linguistically diverse populations, and is consistent with predominantly Near/Middle Eastern origin of the Caucasians, with minor external impacts.

True, Caucasians clusters with Middle-East populations and affiliate with South-West Asian, Romanians and Sardinians.

http://fennoscandia.blogspot.no/2013/04/updated-world-analysis.html

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

...[/IMG]

Hence they are from Europe/Caucasus.
I know where they live .

http://i.imgur.com/Oo4hAXA.jpg --Nogay

Your word salad won't make them European.

[d3cimat3d]

Gagauzes have a lot.

http://i41.tinypic.com/9glfd5.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/314xbvk.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/68gc8y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/15gc7r6.jpg

[evon]

I know where they live .

http://i.imgur.com/Oo4hAXA.jpg --Nogay

Your word salad won't make them European.

Europe is a geographical term, European is a term that describes people whom are from Europe, hence Nogai are European, and belong to the European population just like Portuguese, Greeks, Udmurts and Icelanders, whom all live on the borders of Europe. The European variation in phenotype is very vast, you find Blond blue eyed Fins, Black haired brown skinned Portuguese, so just because they dont fit your idea of European does not make them less European, then you should state that its your personal opinion and not a fact as such...