Turks are not more White or European than Amernians.

[ButlerKing]

Btw I'm not Armenian but I was accused of being Armenians when I said Armenians were more White and genetically European than Turkish. I'm only curious at why Armenians get treated like swarthy Arabs with brown skinned more so than Turkish. Armenians are Christians and speaks a Indo-European language and also have higher frequencies of colored eyes and hair than Turkish people yet people consider them un-European and calls them "sand niggers " or light skinned Pakis. I can post tons of of threads with subjective views of Armenians being treated as non-Europeans if you want.


Armenian Genetics

http://i50.tinypic.com/2zghpmv.png

3 samples: 10- 22% West Asian admixture + 60-75% European admixture
4 samples: 39- 42% West Asian admixture + 28-40% European admixture
6 samples: 45- 50% West Asian admixture + 25-30% European admixture
6 samples: 50- 55% West Asian admixture + 25-30% European admixture


As you can see, their is significant South European, East European, Mediterranean ( <---- also European) admixture on the average Armenians.


Turkish Genetics
http://i46.tinypic.com/1zovvrk.png

10 samples: 50-55% West Asian admixture + 22-29% European admixture
6 samples: 43-50% West Asian admixture + 31-35% European admixture
3 samples: 57-63% West Asian admixture + 25-30% European admixture

Non Caucasoid admixture :

Mongoloid admixture

1 Sample: 11% Mongoloid
3 Sample: 10 % Mongoloid
2 Sample: 9% Mongoloid
3 Sample: 6.8% Mongoloid
3 Sample: 5.2% Mongoloid
1 Sample: 3.5% Mongoloid
1 Sample: 2.8% Mongoloid

Black- Sub Saharan admixture

1 Sample: 0.8% Sub-Saharan
2 Sample: 0.2% Sub-Saharan


Now take a look at the percentages of light and light eyes

http://i45.tinypic.com/2viqg3s.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/6ztsw8.png

So you see Armenians have higher European admixture and much higher frequencies of light hair and light eyes.

[ButlerKing]

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/kabc/cms_exf_2007/_video_wn_images/8635211_600x338.jpg
http://neweasternpolitics.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/genocide_protest.jpg
http://data.whicdn.com/images/31284077/251842_461081957254713_795776510_n_thumb.jpg
http://viparmenia.com/vb/attachments/22258d1296082218-armenian-beauty-000785de.jpeg
http://viparmenia.com/vb/attachments/25920d1304213651-hayer-armenians-armenian_students.jpg
http://www.armenianweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/armenia-springbreak-2009-216.jpg
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NSlHSoobvkA/0.jpg

[Methmatician]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2viqg3s.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/6ztsw8.png


How can those two maps, which represent two different things, be exactly the same?

[Hoca]

people consider them un-European and calls them "sand niggers " or light skinned Pakis.

What have you been reading? Storm front?

Hell, that would explain your twisted thoughts about Turks too.

[ButlerKing]

What have you been reading? Storm front?

Hell, that would explain your twisted thoughts about Turks too.

Stormfront, Europedia and bunch of other forums ect

[ButlerKing]

How can those two maps, which represent two different things, be exactly the same?



Why not? since North European or East Europeans tend to have both light hair and light eyes, it only makes sense they'll both be the same.


About 1/4 of Armenians have light hair and eyes.

[Methmatician]

Why not? since North European or East Europeans tend to have both light hair and light eyes, it only makes sense they'll both be the same.

One of those maps must be wrong. How can the percentages be exactly the same for light eyes and light hair in the exact same places?

[Hoca]

Stormfront, Europedia and bunch of other forums ect

I guess they base it on personal observation that Armenians are swarthy. I can only say my opinion. My observation from the Armenian I have seen, is that they don't look European, don't have light eyes, have darker skin, big noses, some crooked noses and I don't really see them fitting in Europe. Of course there are exceptions.

[ButlerKing]

I guess they base it on personal observation that Armenians are swarthy. I can only say my opinion. My observation from the Armenian I have seen, is that they don't look European, don't have light eyes, have darker skin, big noses, some crooked noses and I don't really see them fitting in Europe. Of course there are exceptions.

They selected the darkest skin Armenians on purpose besides even Spanish have dark hair and dark eyes. The results clearly shows their European admixture can range from 25% - 65% depending on the person so clearly they aren't just West Asians but a mixture of West Asian and European even southern Europeans have 20-40% of West Asian admixture.

How will these people not fit on Europe?

http://www.holytrinity-pa.org/files/holytrinity/files/SundaySchoolChildren.jpg
http://media.pn.am/media/set/2/298/big_868489ba5.jpg

[ButlerKing]

One of those maps must be wrong. How can the percentages be exactly the same for light eyes and light hair in the exact same places?

Take a look again, their not really the same.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Why don't you compare Armenians with some other European etnicity ,why it always has to be Turks..not Georgians for example..:bored:

[poiuytrewq0987]

If you are a Turk and you look like this:

http://www.resimupload.org/data/media/1288/Yelda-Basaran-9445.jpg

then you're a bastard child

but if you are a Turk and you look like this:

http://www.donkeyandthemule.com.au/images/mongol%20man%204.JPG

then congrats, you're a original gokturkler.

[Prince Carlo]

The Armenian cluster from Behar et all includes half slavic people. LOLZ.

[Methmatician]

Take a look again, their not really the same.

Besides the obvious difference they're the same. They both highlight the same areas but give them different percentages. No way can a correlation between light hair and light eyes be that strong.

[gregorius]

on average armos look lighter than turks but darker than georgians from my own exp. not a big difference imo

[ButlerKing]

Why don't you compare Armenians with some other European etnicity ,why it always has to be Turks..not Georgians for example..:bored:


Georgians are also in Europe and they don't claim Armenians are non-white and non-European but some Turkish would say nasty things. One Turk said " Armenians are a bunch of brown-skinned Jewo-Iranid liers "

Check here
http://www.topix.net/forum/world/georgia/TQ72EQ6FL8S1BPAKT/p2

So I tried to prove them wrong but than I was accused of being Armenian. There aren't even Armenians living in the U.K

[ButlerKing]

If you are a Turk and you look like this:

http://www.resimupload.org/data/media/1288/Yelda-Basaran-9445.jpg

then you're a bastard child

but if you are a Turk and you look like this:

http://www.donkeyandthemule.com.au/images/mongol%20man%204.JPG

then congrats, you're a original gokturkler.


You see Mongolians or Turks aren't even that dark skinned, only those that live in the Gobi desert and get sun burned turned to dark. In same, Armenians are not really born dark either but because their in the South where the climate is hot they would get burned a little.

http://www.limkokwing.net/graphics/news/mongolians_add_to_limkokwings_multicultural_commun ity.jpg
http://globalreach-mongol.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCN0595.169163658_std.JPG
http://www.us.iearn.org/sites/all/files/imagecache/hub_page_large/Celebration.jpg

[Hoca]

Davitian is an Armenian actor. I think he is a good model how Armenians look.
http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/04/gcelebrities/Ken_Davitian-3.jpg
http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2008_Meet_the_Spartans/008MTS_Ken_Davitian_002.jpg
http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/04/gcelebrities/Ken_Davitian-1.jpg

Most people base their opinion on pictures like Butler guy. I have actually seen them and I know what kind of type they look like.

[ButlerKing]

Davitian is an Armenian actor. I think he is a good model how Armenians look.
http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/04/gcelebrities/Ken_Davitian-3.jpg
http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2008_Meet_the_Spartans/008MTS_Ken_Davitian_002.jpg
http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/04/gcelebrities/Ken_Davitian-1.jpg

Most people base their opinion on pictures like Butler guy. I have actually seen them and I know what kind of type they look like.

Armenians can also look like this.

I would say 40-50% of Armenians look European.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2sm5pypsv1r2og8y.jpg

[Gospodine]

First off, before you start debating anything those maps denoting the frequency of light hair and eye colour are unequivocally bullshit.

They're made by members from Eupedia based on other maps made my members from other anthro forums.

[TheMagnificent]

They selected the darkest skin Armenians on purpose besides even Spanish have dark hair and dark eyes. The results clearly shows their European admixture can range from 25% - 65% depending on the person so clearly they aren't just West Asians but a mixture of West Asian and European even southern Europeans have 20-40% of West Asian admixture.

How will these people not fit on Europe?

http://www.holytrinity-pa.org/files/holytrinity/files/SundaySchoolChildren.jpg
http://media.pn.am/media/set/2/298/big_868489ba5.jpg

Children are not a good measure for characteristics of an ethnic group, because their hair color and other characteristics change over time, as you know.

And just by looking at the second photo, I can tell you I doubt that's the natural hair color of those women.

[Gospodine]

Stormfront, Europedia and bunch of other forums ect

Why are people still replying seriously?

[Hoca]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01646/Kim-Kardashian_1646892a.jpg

[ButlerKing]

First off, before you start debating anything those maps denoting the frequency of light hair and eye colour are unequivocally bullshit.

They're made by members from Eupedia based on other maps made my members from other anthro forums.

The source comes from Carletton S. Coon " The races of Europe". Take a look at the part I circled in red.

http://i47.tinypic.com/3583mfl.jpg

[gregorius]

www.tff.org/Resources/TFF/Images/2008/turkiye-finlandiya/1.jpg

www.armenianow.com/sites/default/files/img/imagecache/600x400/armenian-national-team-football.jpg

[TheMagnificent]

Armenians can also look like this.

I would say 40-50% of Armenians look European.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2sm5pypsv1r2og8y.jpg

He's half English, to my knowledge.

[RussiaPrussia]

Turks are not more White or European than Amernians.

has anyone claimed that??

[Gospodine]

The source comes from Carletton S. Coon " The races of Europe". Take a look at the part I circled in red.

Same goes for Coon. Most of his work has been rendered redundant with the advent of population genetics.

If you think ethnographers in the 19th/20th century actually traveled Europe extensively on fact-finding missions, you're sorely mistaken. Those are poor estimates.

[ButlerKing]

I don't think their wrong about Armenians hair color. Armenians tend to have light brown hair although many also have black hair, some also have blonde-brownish hair
http://www.gov.am/pics/news/b/4743_en_2.jpg
http://forum.hayastan.com/gallery/1176032452/gallery_23091_7_10926.jpg

[ButlerKing]

He's half English, to my knowledge.

Is he? doesn't matter.

There are plenty of Armenians who can look like this

http://asbarez.com/App/Asbarez/eng/2011/01/1230georgesHrach1.jpg

[Hoca]

This thread is really getting weird. I'm out.

[ButlerKing]

In conclusions Armenians White or European-ess can be compared with the likes of Spanish, Italians, Greeks ect

As for Turkish, they can be compared with Kurds but also with some Armenians and Greeks. The vast majority of Turkish people black hair and eyes.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Turkish_people_in_Belgium.jpg

[TheMagnificent]

Is he? doesn't matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Serkis

[Qemist]

I agree. Turks are not more white or euro than Armenians. Turks are far from being white or European. Please be happy and get a life.

Oh, and at least one of those two maps is bullshit.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Georgians are also in Europe and they don't claim Armenians are non-white and non-European but some Turkish would say nasty things. One Turk said " Armenians are a bunch of brown-skinned Jewo-Iranid liers "
Check here
http://www.topix.net/forum/world/georgia/TQ72EQ6FL8S1BPAKT/p2

So I tried to prove them wrong but than I was accused of being Armenian. There aren't even Armenians living in the U.K

You'd better stop comparing with us because we are not white ,we are not European either.

Besides ,aren't you taking these forums a bit serious..We hear worse than these everyday.Everybody is trolling eachother.I think a thick skin would be more useful than a light skin in usual forum environment.Develop one soon..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Turkish_people_in_Belgium.jpg

This picture again..?
I became so familiar with those people, memorized every face ,I can hug each of them as one of my distant relative by mistake if i happen to see them on street :D

[legolasbozo]

who give a flying duck about being white? İ am sandnigga and i guess it's better than whiteness obsession. But honestly your west is our east and darkest skin turks mostly from east, ex: erzurum . And probably they have little armenian clustur on their heritage so i guess your arguments is a little bit funny. But as i said, i don't need anyone's approve or sympathy. İ m not european or white wannabe so i admit armenia is whiter than us, be my guest.

[chocolatcandy]

You must be out of your mind to think that turks are white anyway.:bored:

[ButlerKing]

I agree. Turks are not more white or euro than Armenians. Turks are far from being white or European. Please be happy and get a life.

Oh, and at least one of those two maps is bullshit.


Now that's exaggerating a little, even Turks have have significant European admixture but no Turk is more than 35% Europeans while many Armenians have 60-75% European admixture. The thing I don't get is why Armenians are always being accused of being non-European when genetics shows the truth.

I can only say this.... if Armenians aren't considered White or Europeans than neither are some of these European ethnic groups

http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Anthropogenesis-DienekesWestAsia-636x264.jpg

[Il Principe]

I don't think their wrong about Armenians hair color. Armenians tend to have light brown hair
From what I've seen, both in photos and real-life, almost all of them (non-cherrypicked, adult individuals) have coal-black hair.

Armenians are, on average, darker than Turks. Not only that, but their physiognomy - which has given the very name to the Armenoid racial type - is often far more unpleasant.


In conclusions Armenians White or European-ess can be compared with the likes of Spanish, Italians, Greeks ect
With the heavily mixed Greeks, yes. With the darkest bowels of Italy, maybe. But with the Spanish and the majority of Italians? Most certainly not.

[ButlerKing]

From what I've seen, both in photos and real-life, almost all of them (non-cherrypicked, adult individuals) have coal-black hair.

Armenians are, on average, darker than Turks. Not only that, but their physiognomy - which has given the very name to the Armenoid racial type - is often far uglier.


Yet again another person that says this without evidence. Properly a Armenian from Turkey is darker since they intermarried with Kurds but the ones from Europe are not dark at all.

Why is than light brown to medium brown hair so common in Armenians?

http://blog.usu.edu/international/files/2010/01/Armenian-Students-all.jpg
http://www.perkins.org/assets/images/lantern-fall08/armenia-1.gif
http://travelingev.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/students-in-computer-class.jpg

[Il Principe]

I am otherwise the last person to defend the virtues of Turks, but in this case, it must be done: claiming that Armenians and other genetic Middle-Easterners are "more European" and - absurdity of absurdities - "whiter" than Turks is just plain dishonest.


Yet again another person that says this without evidence
I've known perhaps five Armenians in my life, and have seen enough crowd photos of Armenians online to have an opinion based in empirical evidence.


Properly a Armenian from Turkey is darker since they intermarried with Kurds but the ones from Europe are not dark at all.
You answered your own question there. The ones living in Europe have, to some degree, absorbed genetic material from the local European population (or, more accurately, soiled the Europeans with their dark Armenoid seed) and thus have fairer features than those outside of Europe.


Why is than light brown hair is so common in Armenians?
Stop cherry-picking photos of children, for the love of God. Everyone knows that people have lighter hair as children than they have as adults.

The best part is that your hand-picked photos still show a majority of black-haired people with clear Hither Asiatic traits, even if we focus on Token Whitey in the pictures.

[Pecheneg]

Btw I'm not Armenian

Oh yes you are, I knew it since the day you signed up and of course i knew this thread was coming. You armenians' obsession with whiteness/europeanness is not something new. But at least grow some balls and stop hiding behind irish/british masks.


I don't give a fuck about being white/european since i'm a Turk and proud of it, but it will be funny to burst your bubble, so let me do it.


'K7b' spreadsheet


Armenians;
West_Asian 53.4

Southern 35.2
Atlantic_Baltic 11.3

East_Asian 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0

African 0






Turks;
West_Asian 43

Southern 30.3
Atlantic_Baltic 18.3

East_Asian 2.4
Siberian 4.6
South_Asian 1.4

African 0








Oopss, it seems posting all these cherry picked armenians' photos was nothing more than wasting time. :cry2

[Hoca]

Armenians are, on average, darker than Turks. Not only that, but their physiognomy - which has given the very name to the Armenoid racial type - is often far more unpleasant.

Yes, this is what I was saying too.

[legolasbozo]

Yet again another person that says this without evidence. Properly a Armenian from Turkey is darker since they intermarried with Kurds but the ones from Europe are not dark at all.

Why is than light brown to medium brown hair so common in Armenians?

http://blog.usu.edu/international/files/2010/01/Armenian-Students-all.jpg
http://www.perkins.org/assets/images/lantern-fall08/armenia-1.gif
http://travelingev.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/students-in-computer-class.jpg

pathetic. Ok broarmenians whiter than turks and the whitest of all europeans. Their skins so white that almost tresparent, if you look carefully you can see their inner organs. Stop put photos i m using my phone and it's gonna shut the system down. Photos don't show any proof. People can put turks crowded photos and whiter than west europeans. But this don't prove anything and it would be shitstorm. Peoples can observe from their's own experiences. Please stop this. Every turks admit that armenians whiter than us, enough is enough.

[ButlerKing]

The best part is that your hand-picked photos still show a majority of black-haired people with clear Hither Asiatic traits, even if we focus on Token Whitey in the pictures.

Dude I'm so not cherry picking photos. I'm posting pictures from Armenia not the immigrant Armenians from Turkey because I do admit they are darker. Armenians have diverse traits not just the swarthy Armenians you see from Turkey.

I think it is the racial prejudices and stereotypes against Armenians that people aren't willing to accept them as European.


Armenian Chest team
http://www.azad-hye.net/media/s1/chess-armenian-men-team.jpg


Armenian protestors
http://www.armenia.com.au/images/cms/1/news/protest2a.jpg

[Dengizik]

I'll recommend you to change your nick as ButthurtKing.

[Il Principe]

Yes, this is what I was saying too.
Indeed. A group which so painfully belongs in the same racial category as Iranians and Kurds should not presume to call itself European.

The crucial thing here is the facial physiognomy, not only hair color. Armenoid traits, for example, are far more Asiatic than the typical Mediterranean traits. I would not be surprised if, on a census taken on the populations in question, the Lebanese/Israelis/Turks had a far higher occurrence of Western racial types than the Armenians and other Hither Asiatics.

[Onur]

Btw I'm not Armenian but I was accused of being Armenians when I said Armenians were more White and genetically European than Turkish.
Yes, you are an Armenian for sure. All your posts are concentrated between Armenians and Turks. This is a typical Armenian behavior because of their Turkic paranoia and complexes.



As for Turkish, they can be compared with Kurds but also with some Armenians and Greeks. The vast majority of Turkish people black hair and eyes.
Armenians share their homeland with Kurds, that is south to southeastern Anatolia. It`s the Armenians who looks similar with Kurds. Also, Anatolia is not a small territory either since there are ~1900km distance between the east and west Anatolia.

I can spot an Armenian in Turkey from miles away. Most of them have dark brown to black hair and their facial appearance are so distinct. Their skin color is same as the Kardashian bitch.

You are a sorry ass nordicist Armenian. Do not try to tease with us by writing "British Irish" to your info section.

[ButlerKing]

If Turks don't care about being White

Than what is this video about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7DvtHZ_oXU

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

If Turks don't care about being White

Than what is this video about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7DvtHZ_oXU

lol comments must be approved by channel owner
Because this rare dodo bird knows there are hundreds of Turks on you tube to correct him every second.

[Il Principe]

Dude I'm so not cherry picking photos.
Yeah, dawg, you're so totally not doing that, d00d.


I'm posting pictures from Armenia not the immigrant Armenians from Turkey because I do admit they are darker. Armenians have diverse traits not just the swarthy Armenians you see from Turkey.
Apparently, it completely flew over your head the first time, so I shall repeat it once more - your photos still show a majority of swarthy people, the few brown-haired ones aside. All you are doing, my friend, is confirming that these are an exception to the rule.


I think it is the racial prejudices and stereotypes against Armenians that people aren't willing to accept them as European.
Racial prejudices and stereotypes are only healthy. So is aesthetic revulsion for lower racial types.

[Equilibrium]

Using the template of Pecheneg for Dodecad Globe 13 with Behar groups.


Armenians;
West_Asian 50.6
Southwest_Asian 18.5


North_European 1.5
Mediterranean 29.1


East_Asian 0
Siberian 0
Arctic 0.1
South_Asian 0
Australasian 0.2




Turks;
West_Asian 39.7
Southwest_Asian 16.2


North_European 8.0
Mediterranean 26.7


East_Asian 2.0
Siberian 4.6
Arctic 0.9
South_Asian 1.5
Australasian 0.1

[Pecheneg]

Than what is this video about?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR]


http://i46.tinypic.com/2lwrtvl.jpg

Bu kanal ülkenizde kullanılamıyor = This channel is not available in your country

Does it ring a bell? :lightbul:


Probably a non-Turk idiot who speaks on behalf of Turks. Internet is full of them.

[ButlerKing]

Yeah, dawg, you're so totally not doing that, d00d.


Apparently, it completely flew over your head the first time, so I shall repeat it once more - your photos still show a majority of swarthy people, the few brown-haired ones aside. All you are doing, my friend, is confirming that these are an exception to the rule.


Racial prejudices and stereotypes are only healthy. So is aesthetic revulsion for lower racial types.

So what about the Spaniards and Greeks are they not White since they have lesser frequencies of light brown hair than Armenians?

Spaniards
http://img.news.sina.com/world/p/2012/0229/U47P5029T2D444726F26DT20120301142341.jpg

Greeks
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/3/1320323972857/Greek-students-proresting-007.jpg

While Armenians can be lighter skin and lighter hair

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1100-5/photos/1335022401-armenia-genocide-anniversary-demonstration--london_1167675.jpg

[Hoca]

This butler guy, most likely Armenian, who started this thread probably got rough talked on stormfront he is not European and white and now comes to this forum to ease his butthurt. Well, if we can look it backfired immensely.

Armenians look similar to Kurds. It is funny they both claim to be European although their big crooked noses, long heads, and ugly Armeniod faces give it immediately away they are not. Of course there are exceptions but in general lines, we know how Armenians look.

[ButlerKing]

Using the template of Pecheneg for Dodecad Globe 13 with Behar groups.


Armenians;
West_Asian 50.6
Southwest_Asian 18.5


North_European 1.5
Mediterranean 29.1


East_Asian 0
Siberian 0
Arctic 0.1
South_Asian 0
Australasian 0.2




Turks;
West_Asian 39.7
Southwest_Asian 16.2


North_European 8.0
Mediterranean 26.7


East_Asian 2.0
Siberian 4.6
Arctic 0.9
South_Asian 1.5
Australasian 0.1



This is only the average number

For example if 2 out 10 of the samples are 29.1% Mediterranean than they will choose the average number but the truth is the other 8 samples can range from 10 to 90% Mediterranean.


So while turks are slightly more European on average, their diversity in ranging frequencies is small while a high number of % Armenians can be 40-70% European genetically.

[Pecheneg]

So what about the Spaniards and Greeks are they not White since they have lesser frequencies of light brown hair than Armenians?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA

Butthurt king has no limits.

[Qemist]

OK, as a neutral party I have collected a set of images of Armenians. (Google images terms: Armenian team).

Wrestling team
http://static0.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/100-6/photos/1255019195-armenian-grecoroman-wrestling-team-148216_148216.jpg

Soccer team
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/398/735/129035892_crop_650x440.jpg?1318554015

College rugby team
http://www.azad-hye.net/media/i1/rugby-team-in-mumbai-2009.jpg

Chess team
http://asbarez.com/App/Asbarez/eng/2011/07/0726chess.jpg

Some NGO's "Armenian team" (maybe some foreigners)
http://program.counterpart.org/Armenia/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/IMG_5288.jpg

[ButlerKing]

This butler guy, most likely Armenian, who started this thread probably got rough talked on stormfront he is not European and white and now comes to this forum to ease his butthurt. Well, if we can look it backfired immensely.

Armenians look similar to Kurds. It is funny they both claim to be European although their big crooked noses, long heads, and ugly Armeniod faces give it immediately away they are not. Of course there are exceptions but in general lines, we know how Armenians look.

Oh come on, accusing people of being Armenian without evidence lol.
If I was Armenian why is it that this is my only Armenian thread?

What is so wrong with admitting that Armenians look just as European as Greeks, Spaniards, Italians are?

[chocolatcandy]

Plenty of Turks look like north Africans.

[Pecheneg]

@ButlerKing
Alright mate, go create another thread without mentioning Turks next time, we don't want to be part of your whiteness contest.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

What is so wrong with admitting that Armenians look just as European as Greeks, Spaniards, Italians are?
why don't you just claim it without mentioning Turks at least in one of your threads pls...go on..

[Equilibrium]

This is only the average number

For example if 2 out 10 of the samples are 29.1% Mediterranean than they will choose the average number but the truth is the other 8 samples can range from 10 to 90% Mediterranean.


So while turks are slightly more European on average, their diversity in ranging frequencies is small while a high number of % Armenians can be 40-70% European genetically.

Dude, the Armenians you mention are partially Russian. While the Turks with less Euro-Admix from the Eastern parts of Turkey are more Caucasus/Armenian genetically. :picard1:

[Il Principe]

So what about the Spaniards and Greeks are they not White
Spaniards and Greeks are both on the southern periphery of Europe, so both have obviously received an infusion of non-European blood over the ages (the Spaniards less so than the Greeks). Obviously, some areas are less mixed than others - Galicia is more European than the southermost Iberia, for example. Greece is a sadly mixed-race country, genetically between Europe and Anatolia. But, in the end, is no magical border where European features instantly stop. Thus, "whiteness vs. non-whiteness" is not a dichotomy, but rather a fluid gradient.

However, by any sane metric, Armenoid people are outside these racial borders. Southwestern Europeans have far more Europid facial features than any Hither Asiatic will ever have.


since they have lesser frequencies of light brown hair than Armenians?
That's highly debatable. I have never seen any empirical evidence of the Armenians as a whole having lighter hair than Spaniards as a whole.

But even if they had marginally lighter hair, it would not matter one whit. Those unmistakably Asiatic facial features, with their uncanny resemblance to Der Ewige Jude, do not lie.


While Armenians can be lighter skin and lighter hair
Congratulations, yet another crowd photo that showcases the dark hair and swart features of your kin.

[ButlerKing]

Qemist, most of your pictures are in a very far distance, you can't even see their face properly let alone their hair.

http://armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/hye_sharzhoom/vol29/oct07/images/guest_instructors_02.jpg

Armenian children
http://asbarez.com/App/Asbarez/eng/2012/04/ATP-St-Stephens-School-Visit-1.jpg

Please don't use this Armenian children will lose their light hair when they grow up that's not the point. The point is they can have light hair as children and it can go dark when they grow up, just like many Europeans too.

Iranian kids barely have light hair as a kid

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/345/f/8/iranian_kids_by_lordxar-d5nqpu7.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Dude, the Armenians you mention are partially Russian. While the Turks with less Euro-Admix from the Eastern parts of Turkey are more Caucasus/Armenian genetically. :picard1:


Umm.... that was just a random thing to say. Where is your evidence that these Armenians are partially Russians?

There is no evidence for your claim.

[Qemist]

Qemist, most of your pictures are in a very far distance, you can't even see their face properly let alone their hair.

A poor quality unbiased sample is better than a lovely looking biased sample. My photos are all OK except the rugby one, anyway.

I think almost half the people in my sample would pass as some sort of woggy euro. One or two maybe even NW euro. The rest could be Kurds, Iranians or Turks to my eye, though some have a peculiar look I cannot place.

[ButlerKing]

I wonder if this accusation of Armenians are like Kurds or Iranians is because you're confusing Armenians in Turkey who had mixed with Kurds to some extend?

Give your eyes a check, Kurds are what true West Asians look like while Armenians are mixture of West Asian and European with some being more than 60-70% European, some are 40-50% European while even the average has 25-30% European admixture.

This is why the average Armenian can easily pass for any European in Southern Europe since they already have substanial West Asian admixture while some selected Armenians can even pass for North Europeans.
http://kurdishrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/kurdianadil.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200706/r154135_554288.jpg

[legolasbozo]

hahaha this guy is pathetic, remind me britney spears "leave britney alone" dude. Butthurtking probably cryin in the middle of the night under the sheets, self recording himself. "armenians are white, armenians are european"

[ButlerKing]

hahaha this guy is pathetic, remind me britney spears "leave britney alone" dude. Butthurtking probably cryin in the middle of the night under the sheets, self recording himself. "armenians are white, armenians are european"

Come on man, all I want is prove wrong these exaggerated racial stereotypes of Armenians and now that I did I just hope you guys can learn to accept it.


Let me just say again...... the is strong racial prejudice against Armenians.

[legolasbozo]

i mean seriously why? İt's not a big deal man. İn this forum Kurds are also trying to prove they are white european, addionally one of them delusional about he has spanish grandmother whereas with his posts he is denying himself.can't you see that is a inferior complexity about your nation? Maybe you are trying to flattered your nation as being european, what a silly attitude, but actually you are insulting them, got me? So i guessyou should stop this crap.

[ButlerKing]

i mean seriously why? İt's not a big deal man. İn this forum Kurds are also trying to prove they are white european, addionally one of them delusional about he has spanish grandmother whereas with his posts he is denying himself.can't you see that is a inferior complexity about your nation? Maybe you are trying to flattered your nation as being european, what a silly attitude, but actually you are insulting them, got me? So i guessyou should stop this crap.


I speak only the truth. Just because you are ignorant about the racial diversity about Armenians doesn't mean I am. My problem is you and many other people keep depicting Armenians as like these Kurds when in clearly their not like that at all.

Why such a strong bias judgement against Armenians?


http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/000-5/photos/1278983207-newroz_36285.jpg

[Gospodine]

Dude I'm so not cherry picking photos.

He even talks like 9 out of 10 Armenian-American nationalists I've seen on the Net. Dudebro, dawg, like totally, etc...

Can mods look up people's IP addresses? This guy's probably in L.A. with the rest of the Armenian diaspora.


So what about the Spaniards and Greeks are they not White since they have lesser frequencies of light brown hair than Armenians?


What is so wrong with admitting that Armenians look just as European as Greeks, Spaniards, Italians are?

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4260/nicolascagelaugh.gif

[ButlerKing]

Armenians from Armenia look like this

http://www.keghart.com/sites/default/files/images/Glendale%20Rally.jpg
http://sport.news.am/static/images/football/DSC07003.JPG

Kurds look like this, there are clear differences in physical appearance.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/dailystar/Pictures/2012/11/07/114747_mainimg.jpg

[Il Principe]

The hysterical Armenoid neurosis in this thread is interesting indeed. If racial science were still a popularly-taught subject, the content of this thread and how it pertains to racially-predisposed behavior would've been analyzed like any pathogen.

[ButlerKing]

LOL :D HAHAHA..... you guys crack me up sometimes. I live in the U.K, go check my IP address.


1. I have genetic evidence
2. My pictures of hundreds people shows it
3. Light hair and eye color distribution


The problem is you guys just want Armenians to be viewed the same as Kurdish Arabs or other kinds of Middle eastern Muslims.

[Gospodine]

1. I have genetic evidence
2. My pictures of hundreds people shows it
3. Light hair and eye color distribution


Thankfully it's only a matter of time until you get banned.


The problem is you guys just want Armenians to be viewed the same as Kurdish Arabs or other kinds of Middle eastern Muslims.

Even if we do? So what? Armenians are far closer to Kurds and Persians than they are to Europeans.

Hayastan je Brown. Deal with it.

[Il Principe]

I live in the U.K
So does half of Pakistan, a quarter of Poland, and ninety percent of Jamaica. That you live in the UK proves nothing whatsoever.


1. I have genetic evidence
2. My pictures of hundreds people shows it
3. Light hair and eye color distribution
I have yet to see any evidence, my friend. Spam-posting of handpicked photos does not constitute empirical evidence, I'm afraid.


The problem is you guys just want Armenians to be viewed the same as Kurdish Arabs or other kinds of Middle eastern Muslims.
A genetic Middle-Easterner is a Middle-Easterner, regardless of Muslim religion. Blood does not lie. A Hither Asiatic will always be a Hither Asiatic.

Generally speaking, if you need to prove that you're European, you are probably not.

[ButlerKing]

Thankfully it's only a matter of time until you get banned.

Even if we do? So what? Armenians are far closer to Kurds and Persians than they are to Europeans.

Hayastan je Brown. Deal with it.



Banned for what reason? I can only say it's your racial prejudice against Armenians. I'm using genetic data and pictures to prove it, fair and square man, can't you handle it?

I already showed you the difference, why come to this thread to repeat the same thing that Armenians are Kurds and Iranians only? Get your eyes checked instead please

THE DIFFERENCE
--------------

Kurds have little to non-European admixture, they are very close to West Asians.

Armenians have SIGNIFICANT EUROPEAN admixture ( 25 - 70% ). Although you can say Armenians are closer to West Asian you cannot say their the same because their not, they have lighter hair and lighter skin.

I'm done replying, last reply here. Just din't know the racial biasness against Armenians is so strong like Stormfront. :picard2:

[Equilibrium]

This gif sums up this thread pretty good:

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4260/nicolascagelaugh.gif

[Prince Carlo]

Armenians plot between Georgians and Assyrians far away from Europeans.

[Hoca]

He even talks like 9 out of 10 Armenian-American nationalists I've seen on the Net. Dudebro, dawg, like totally, etc...

Can mods look up people's IP addresses? This guy's probably in L.A. with the rest of the Armenian diaspora.





http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4260/nicolascagelaugh.gifI heard Armenians are also a handful in the US.

[denz]

I can only say it's your racial prejudice against Armenians.

:picard1: cmon, why there should be a prejudice or sth like this to armenian even if they have dark hair or skin. Just let them (or you) have an inner peace.

I will tell you something for relax sleep, yes i admit armenian society is whiter and more european than turks. :bored:

[Annihilus]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2zghpmv.png

First, as you can clearly see 4 of them are mixed (with Russians), so you should remove them.

Second, if you want to compare them to Turks, you should use the same run. You can't just compare components from different k-runs:picard1:

[Hoca]

First, as you can clearly see 4 of them are mixed (with Russians), so you should remove them.

Second, if you want to compare them to Turks, you should use the same run. You can't just compare components from different k-runs:picard1:

He probably doesn't know what that means, neither do I. Did you study this topic in uni?

[Annihilus]

He probably doesn't know what that means, neither do I. Did you study this topic in uni?


This is just amateur level, but he is below that, still at noob.

[snowbird]

Turds are brown, its in the nature of excrements.

[snowbird]

Ok, now something serious. I think Turks are a Kurdish people with some Mongoloid admixture, but I see them closest to Kurds.

[denz]

Turds are brown, its in the nature of excrements.

snowdirt :picard2:

[snowbird]

snowdirt :picard2:

Calm down, do you have no humor?

[Pecheneg]

Snowbird sounds like a butthurt sheeptard i know.

[alanr]

No self respecting Kurd will consider themselves to be European, and quite frankly we don't. Now you might think that our world would come to an end because you think we're not white or European but quite frankly we don't give a shit. You just convey your own ignorance and lack of education, because why would we want to be European when our region, Mesopotamia is known to be the cradle of civilizations? Lets not forget where the Greeks were educated (Mesopotamia) where the majority of your names come from (the Middle East) and where your religions come from. Lets not forget that the Western world were exposed to science by Muslim and Jewish scholars during the occupation of Spain.

Now due to some unfortunate events, the technologically superior Middle East was destroyed and Western Europe was left to flourish, yes, we were a buffer against the savages that would have burned your towns too had they not turned around.

So please stop with this "white superiority" crap because if you still believe in that you seriously need to visit a university, but hey, that's the problem, you don't really have an education, hence the crap you post on here.

- To the Turks that deny their Middle Eastern roots and want to be European, to hell with you too.

[American_Hispanist]

this thread is a joke.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

To the Turks that deny their Middle Eastern roots and want to be European, to hell with you too.

Hey animeboy..no one claims to be European here ,give that speech to your Spanish comrade..
We are totally irrelavant in this thread.

[alanr]

Hey animeboy..no one claims to be European here ,give that speech to your Spanish comrade..
We are totally irrelavant in this thread.

Who's "we" I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Turks, i.e. those from Turkey, Anatolians. not to some one from East Asia. Your opinion is of no value to me what so ever.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

oh pls do not discriminate me because of my looks
I am another mongoloid looking middleasterner just like you ..:D

[alanr]

You wish you were Middle Eastern.

[Hayalet]

ButlerKing did something as ridiculous as editing autosomal genetic charts and making Armenians more Northern European with the help of MS Paint. :laugh:

That's why I had figured him for a lousy Armenian Nordicist initially, but I must admit the rest of his posting history doesn't fit the bill.

[American_Hispanist]

ButlerKing did something as ridiculous as editing genetic charts and making Armenians more Northern European in MS Paint. :laugh:

That's why I had figured him for a lousy Armenian Nordicist initially, but I must admit the rest of his posting history doesn't fit the bill.

lol. armenians are sneaky, lol.

[American_Hispanist]

You wish you were Middle Eastern.

you are a gypsie. :D

[Balmung]

This obsession with Turks, is starting to get pathetic, some of you need a hobby, possibly a girlfriend.

[Anthropologique]

Btw I'm not Armenian but I was accused of being Armenians when I said Armenians were more White and genetically European than Turkish. I'm only curious at why Armenians get treated like swarthy Arabs with brown skinned more so than Turkish. Armenians are Christians and speaks a Indo-European language and also have higher frequencies of colored eyes and hair than Turkish people yet people consider them un-European and calls them "sand niggers " or light skinned Pakis. I can post tons of of threads with subjective views of Armenians being treated as non-Europeans if you want.


Armenian Genetics

http://i50.tinypic.com/2zghpmv.png

3 samples: 10- 22% West Asian admixture + 60-75% European admixture
4 samples: 39- 42% West Asian admixture + 28-40% European admixture
6 samples: 45- 50% West Asian admixture + 25-30% European admixture
6 samples: 50- 55% West Asian admixture + 25-30% European admixture


As you can see, their is significant South European, East European, Mediterranean ( <---- also European) admixture on the average Armenians.


Turkish Genetics
http://i46.tinypic.com/1zovvrk.png

10 samples: 50-55% West Asian admixture + 22-29% European admixture
6 samples: 43-50% West Asian admixture + 31-35% European admixture
3 samples: 57-63% West Asian admixture + 25-30% European admixture

Non Caucasoid admixture :

Mongoloid admixture

1 Sample: 11% Mongoloid
3 Sample: 10 % Mongoloid
2 Sample: 9% Mongoloid
3 Sample: 6.8% Mongoloid
3 Sample: 5.2% Mongoloid
1 Sample: 3.5% Mongoloid
1 Sample: 2.8% Mongoloid

Black- Sub Saharan admixture

1 Sample: 0.8% Sub-Saharan
2 Sample: 0.2% Sub-Saharan


Now take a look at the percentages of light and light eyes

http://i45.tinypic.com/2viqg3s.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/6ztsw8.png

So you see Armenians have higher European admixture and much higher frequencies of light hair and light eyes.

The maps are from Eupedia and very inaccurate, as the imput obtains from very old and methodologically faulty "studies." They have been edited so many times it's laughable.

[alanr]

you are a gypsie. :D

House keeping?

[American_Hispanist]

House keeping?

No, you are a gypsie. :)

[Hoca]

ButlerKing did something as ridiculous as editing autosomal genetic charts and making Armenians more Northern European with the help of MS Paint. :laugh:

That's why I had figured him for a lousy Armenian Nordicist initially, but I must admit the rest of his posting history doesn't fit the bill.

This is typical Armenian behavior. I'm sure he is Armenian now.

[alanr]

No, you are a gypsie. :)

I understand that you lack the mental capacity to understand the basic concept of a civilized discussions where one sticks to the subject and doesn't make a fool out of themselves by going off topic randomly.

Can you imagine how stupid you would look in a real life situation if everyone was debating a subject and your response was "you're a gypsie"

Stick to topic or get back to your house keeping duties.

[StonyArabia]

Armenians are more South Asian influenced due to Persian admixture, as well more Semitic, which means by default they are more African than Turks as well.

[American_Hispanist]

I understand that you lack the mental capacity to understand the basic concept of a civilized discussions where one sticks to the subject and doesn't make a fool out of themselves by going off topic randomly.

Can you imagine how stupid you would look in a real life situation if everyone was debating a subject and your response was "you're a gypsie"

Stick to topic or get back to your house keeping duties.

Ehhh, you stupid Kurds don't know the meaning of messing around. you guys are as stupid as arabs. No wonder Turks don't fucking like your people. You are typical of Kurds, inflating the achievements of Kurds as to make yourselves look valuable, but guess what, you guys aren't valuable. :)

[Hoca]

No self respecting Kurd will consider themselves to be European, and quite frankly we don't. Now you might think that our world would come to an end because you think we're not white or European but quite frankly we don't give a shit. You just convey your own ignorance and lack of education, because why would we want to be European when our region, Mesopotamia is known to be the cradle of civilizations? Lets not forget where the Greeks were educated (Mesopotamia) where the majority of your names come from (the Middle East) and where your religions come from. Lets not forget that the Western world were exposed to science by Muslim and Jewish scholars during the occupation of Spain.

Now due to some unfortunate events, the technologically superior Middle East was destroyed and Western Europe was left to flourish, yes, we were a buffer against the savages that would have burned your towns too had they not turned around.

So please stop with this "white superiority" crap because if you still believe in that you seriously need to visit a university, but hey, that's the problem, you don't really have an education, hence the crap you post on here.

- To the Turks that deny their Middle Eastern roots and want to be European, to hell with you too.
It are actually Kurds who claim they are European. I never heard Turks claiming to be European although they ruled big portion of Europe for some time. People who are not content with their own ethnicity such as Kurds and Armenians make these kind of weird threads. Armenians because they are Christian, want to be part of Europe but get rough talked because they are not Europeans. And Kurds because Kurds have no history and want to be part of something. By the way cradle of civilization has nothing to do with Kurds. Kurds didn't even have a country or own civilization.

[American_Hispanist]

This is typical Armenian behavior. I'm sure he is Armenian now.

Armenians are always so desperate to be looked at as Euros, lol. It's almost like a religion for them, to be looked at as Euros. But, they can never get away with the fact that Armenians can't pass for Euros. When they can't use that they look Euro, they than use the "christian connection", but even that fails.

[Equilibrium]

German Nazi forums are filled with Kurds and Iranians, trying to persuade them of their Indo-European connection, that they are Aryans and Turks evil Mongols.

[StonyArabia]

Plenty of Turks look like north Africans.

No they don't.

[Hayalet]

This is typical Armenian behavior. I'm sure he is Armenian now.
I wouldn't say that. I have seen many level-headed Armenian posters in these fora. But tampering genetic charts with MS Paint is indeed very pathetic. :laugh:

[orangepulp]

Armenians are not any whiter than Turks. In the West Asian/ Anatolian category Turks actually score the most European admixture. In regards to complexion there is no difference between Turks and Armenians, phenotype wise Armenians actually appear to be a bit more Semitic and Armenoid influenced.

[Hoca]

I wouldn't say that. I have seen many level-headed Armenian posters in these fora. But tampering genetic charts with MS Paint is indeed very pathetic. :laugh:

No, because of this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/armenian-american-gang-busted-massive-163-million-medicare-scam-article-1.187168

I made immediate connection.

[alanr]

It are actually Kurds who claim they are European. I never heard Turks claiming to be European although they ruled big portion of Europe for some time. People who are not content with their own ethnicity such as Kurds and Armenians make these kind of weird threads. Armenians because they are Christian, want to be part of Europe but get rough talked because they are not Europeans. And Kurds because Kurds have no history and want to be part of something. By the way cradle of civilization has nothing to do with Kurds. Kurds didn't even have a country or own civilization.

Some kids online make a thread and suddenly Kurds claim to be European? Why don't you try to tell a Kurd not online that they're European and watch as they laugh in your face.

You my friend are clearly the outcome of a slave-soldier rape situation, and I won't go into detail since by your post one can determine the minimal level of education that you have.

I will leave you with one line and trust that you have at least some sort of understanding with regards to research.

If you actually think that Kurds are a result of purely Iranic tribes you are mistaken. The local population that lived in Mesopotamia where Kurds lived today were conquered and mixed with the Iranic tribes and so to assume that these people are not partly linked to the farmers that lived in Kurdistan is simply mind boggling.

Now lets go over to actual educational institutes where people that know what they're talking about conduct research and see what they have to say. Lets start of with UCL a top uni in London.

Professor David Wengrow (Department of Archaeology) -


An Archaeology of Political Life, from the Bronze Age to the Kurdish Spring

Relationships between states and state-less societies have been a feature of human history for five thousand years. But our understanding of those relationships has often been distorted by inappropriate comparisons between ancient and modern situations, and by the legacy of outdated evolutionary concepts. My lecture will advance an alternative view of human political development, rooted in the evidence of the archaeological record, and will explore its implications for contemporary state-making projects in the Middle East.
Biography: David Wengrow joined UCL in 2004 having been Junior Research Fellow at Christ Church, Oxford and Frankfort Fellow at the Warburg Institute. He recently gave the Rostovtzeff Lectures at New York University, and is shortly to give the Haecker Lectures at Heidelberg. His current fieldwork is in Iraqi Kurdistan, investigating the prehistoric transition from village to urban life.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/event/4683651929?utm_source=eb_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=event_reminder&utm_term=event_title

[American_Hispanist]

No, because of this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/armenian-american-gang-busted-massive-163-million-medicare-scam-article-1.187168

I made immediate connection.

they are as sneaky as the Jews. :D

[gregorius]

they are as sneaky as the Jews. :D
I really dont care if people think we are white or not or how semitic we look you can all consider us as much semitic as you want. The armenians know how they look like

you are one to talk mexican gipsy :D you are the biggest pest in the USA and still you are calling us jews.:picard1:

[alanr]

German Nazi forums are filled with Kurds and Iranians, trying to persuade them of their Indo-European connection, that they are Aryans and Turks evil Mongols.

You can thank the German Nazis for corrupting the term "Aryan" for that, but yet again, what is "full"? there are +/- 35 million Kurds world wide and several million in Europe, so lets say you've seen 50 or so so called Kurds on those forums does that by your logic constitute to an amount sufficient for a representation of the Kurdish population?

The ignorance is depressing

:picard2:

[Hayalet]

Let's not turn this into an Armenian-bashing thread because of one obscure poster such as ButlerKing.

[American_Hispanist]

you are one to talk mexican gipsy :D you are the biggest pest in the USA and still you are calling us jews.:picard1:

I said they are AS sneaky as the Jews, you stupid armenian. and I actually live in USA, and I haven't been treated bad at all.

and btw, I don't have problems with armenians, I have problems with the ones who bash Turks mindlessly and then try to say they are Euros. some of your people tried to even use the christian connection on me to get me to hate Turkish people. It gets extremely annoying.

[StonyArabia]

You can thank the German Nazis for corrupting the term "Aryan" for that, but yet again, what is "full"? there are +/- 35 million Kurds world wide and several million in Europe, so lets say you've seen 50 or so so called Kurds on those forums does that by your logic constitute to an amount sufficient for a representation of the Kurdish population?

The ignorance is depressing

:picard2:


WORD HISTORY It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Their tribal self-designation was a word reconstructed as *arya- or *ārya-. The first of these is the form found in Iranian, as ultimately in the name of Iran itself (from Middle Persian Ērān (šahr), "(Land) of the Iranians," from the genitive plural of Ēr, "Iranian"). The variant *ārya- is found unchanged in Sanskrit, where it referred to the upper crust of ancient Indian society. These words became known to European scholars in the 18th century. The shifting of meaning that eventually led to the present-day sense started in the 1830s, when Friedrich Schlegel, a German scholar who was an important early Indo-Europeanist, came up with a theory that linked the Indo-Iranian words with the German word Ehre, "honor," and older Germanic names containing the element ario-, such as the Swiss warrior Ariovistus who was written about by Julius Caesar. Schlegel theorized that far from being just a designation of the Indo-Iranians, the word *arya- had in fact been what the Indo-Europeans called themselves, meaning something like "the honorable people." (This theory has since been called into question.) Thus "Aryan" came to be synonymous with "Indo-European," and in this sense entered the general scholarly consciousness of the day. Not much later, it was proposed that the original homeland of the Indo-Europeans had been in northern Europe. From this theory, it was but a small leap to think of the Aryans as having had a northern European physiotype. While these theories were playing themselves out, certain anti-Semitic scholars in Germany took to viewing the Jews in Germany as the main non-Aryan people because of their Semitic roots; a distinction thus arose in their minds between Jews and the "true Aryan" Germans, a distinction that later furnished unfortunate fodder for the racial theories of the Nazis.


Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/aryan#ixzz2JO3HsIcz

[SKYNET]

this thread is a crap, and it smells like poop

[gregorius]

I said they are AS sneaky as the Jews, you stupid armenian. and I actually live in USA, and I haven't been treated bad at all.

Why are we as sneeaky ? because they pulled some fraude ? Like mexicans dont do that in cali. Nobody is treated bad if they act normal but frankly I know you act alot different in RL than on internet trolling others :thumb001:. I can see that on the way you look

[Prince Carlo]

Armenians are more South Asian influenced due to Persian admixture, as well more Semitic, which means by default they are more African than Turks as well.

Armenians have much less South Asian admix than the Turks generally.

South Asian admix.

Dodecad Globe13
Turkish_D 0.7%
Armenian_D 0.2%

Globe12
Turkish_D 0.8%
Armenian_D 0.5%

Globe11
Turkish_D 0.8%
Armenian_D 0.4%

[gregorius]

Let's not turn this into an Armenian-bashing thread because of one obscure poster such as ButlerKing.

The guy wasnt armenian. I checked his posts and he never said a thing about armenians untill now. If he was a real armenian nordicist he would strike way earlier.

[Balmung]

I said they are AS sneaky as the Jews, you stupid armenian. and I actually live in USA, and I haven't been treated bad at all.

and btw, I don't have problems with armenians, I have problems with the ones who bash Turks mindlessly and then try to say they are Euros. some of your people tried to even use the christian connection on me to get me to hate Turkish people. It gets extremely annoying.

A Mexican calling Jews sneaky is rich. Half your brethren are sneaking across the border you hypocrite :lol:

[American_Hispanist]

Why are we as sneeaky ? because they pulled some fraude ? Like mexicans dont do that in cali. Nobody is treated bad if they act normal but frankly I know you act alot different in RL than on internet trolling others :thumb001:. I can see that on the way you look

actually, i do troll in person. and the ones I was referring to being sneaky as Jews were those armenians who committed the fraud. I could be considered more anti-Jewish than armenian. :D

[American_Hispanist]

A Mexican calling Jews sneaky is rich. Half your brethren are sneaking across the border you hypocrite :lol:

this coming from the anglo-american who got butt-hurt over my signature.

[gregorius]

actually, i do troll in person. and the ones I was referring to being sneaky as Jews were those armenians who committed the fraud. I could be considered more anti-Jewish than armenian. :D

So you are anti jewish? You think that makes you a hero on apricity all of a sudden:picard1:

[American_Hispanist]

So you are anti jewish? You think that makes you a hero on apricity all of a sudden:picard1:

No. I don't hate Jews. at best, the people I hate are some central americans and some extremist protestants, but that's for other reasons you won't understand.

[Balmung]

this coming from the anglo-american who got butt-hurt over my signature.

LOL

You have nothing to say to me. You are a Mexican who is anti jew expecting to get a pat on the back from your "European masters" you are a lap dog, the only thing more pathetic than European Nazi's are multiracial Nazi's.

You have nothing to say to Jews, you are beneath them. They have done more for this country than you ever did. Please go.

[American_Hispanist]

LOL

You have nothing to say to me. You are a Mexican who is anti jew expecting to get a pat on the back from your "European masters" you are a lap dog, the only thing more pathetic than European Nazi's are multiracial Nazi's.

You have nothing to say to Jews, you are beneath them. They have done more for this country than you ever did. Please go.

I don't hate Jews. If I hated Jews, then I wouldn't have had a Jewish doctor attend me for so many years.

Clearly, you don't know me. and then you butt-hurt over my signature, add to the fact that I doubt you have even left the USA, based on your trolling.

[Su]

BOYS, stop insulting each other.

And Butlerking, get a gf and instead being obsessed about Turks, be obsessed about your gf's tits or something like that for a change or simply turn off your pc and go out for a fresh air.

If we check your threads about Turks/Turkic people I can clearly say you got an unhealthy obsession about us.

[legolasbozo]

You can thank the German Nazis for corrupting the term "Aryan" for that, but yet again, what is "full"? there are +/- 35 million Kurds world wide and several million in Europe, so lets say you've seen 50 or so so called Kurds on those forums does that by your logic constitute to an amount sufficient for a representation of the Kurdish population?

The ignorance is depressing

:picard2:

ok, let assume germans corrupted "aryan" mean, the thing is kurdish peoples are trying to abuse for themselves this corrupted word, for their acceptance from west world.


Some kids online make a thread and suddenly Kurds claim to be European? Why don't you try to tell a Kurd not online that they're European and watch as they laugh in your face

Excuse me??


http://a1301.hizliresim.com/15/w/jh1uh.jpg

http://a1301.hizliresim.com/15/w/jh1x5.jpg

he is your hewal kurdo=serhildan, it is obvious he has significiant complex about his identity, to find a bounds with europe make up delusional stories. Even he seems defending kurdish identity and history in here, he isn't embrace his roots. beside i know a lot of kurdish from diyarbakır, hakkari whom define themselves "mediterranean" why have to find a connection with mediterraneans? For their well known reputation, or to cover their swarthy complex? there are also a lot of turks from gaziantep, erzurum call themselves "mediterranean" this is creepy, we have to embrace ourselves with our bounds, richness i agree with you, but the last person you could blame for european wannabe is Turkish. Even we are call ourselves
asian.

[alanr]

legolasbozo,

I told you already and I'll tell you again, we're not European, neither are Turks, and if any Kurd or Turk wants to be European or claims to be to hell with them. I don't care, having said that there are many Kurds and Turks that can pass for a Med type, however in this age and time, especially in the Middle east physical appearance doesn't matter, but your culture and values.

Part of my ancestry comes from somewhere close to Georgia close to 9 centuries ago, the rest is Jewish and Aramain, native to Mesopotamia, but I identify with the Middle East and Middle Eastern people and couldn't care less if someone is white or brown. In my extended family I have blondes and I have dark skinned people.

[ChildOfTheJin]

brother legolazbozo, whatever you do, dont quote my pic :)

Its gone, you saw it now fuck off and go brag about your whiteness to your friends

Don't even know why I bother :confused:

[orangepulp]

he is your hewal kurdo=serhildan, it is obvious he has significiant complex about his identity, to find a bounds with europe make up delusional stories. Even he seems defending kurdish identity and history in here, he isn't embrace his roots. beside i know a lot of kurdish from diyarbakır, hakkari whom define themselves "mediterranean" why have to find a connection with mediterraneans? For their well known reputation, or to cover their swarthy complex? there are also a lot of turks from gaziantep, erzurum call themselves "mediterranean" this is creepy, we have to embrace ourselves with our bounds, richness i agree with you, but the last person you could blame for european wannabe is Turkish. Even we are call ourselves
asian.

Turks from Erzurum calling themselves Mediterranean!! Nobody from Erzurum calls them self Med. Where did you get this from?

[TheMagnificent]

This ButthurtKing guy gave me an Ayazid déjà vu, or Uyuzit, with Siberian Cold Breeze's saying. :D Same weird obsession with Turks.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Aman aman.. İti anma çomak lazım olmasın
Zaten uyuz dolu burası ,bari o eksik kalsın ..:D

[d3cimat3d]

Turks are 10% North-European, Armenians are 3% North-European.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedEY4Y3lTUVBaaFp0bC1zZlBDcTZEY lE#gid=0

So how does that make Armenians more European?




Armenian Genetics

http://i50.tinypic.com/2zghpmv.png



The Armenians showing high West+East European are obviously Russian mixed. All ex-USSR countries still have thousands of Russians living there. Marriage between Georgian/Armenian men with Russian women is still very common.

[legolasbozo]

Turks from Erzurum calling themselves Mediterranean!! Nobody from Erzurum calls them self Med. Where did you get this from?

hocam kusura bakma ama biz türklerde de vardı bu tavır, bir sürü adam tanıyorum antakyalı, antepli, urfalı biz akdenizliyiz diyor. Senin kültürün de, yemek alışkanlıklarında görünüşünde ortadoğulu, bu kadar basit. Akdeniz'den kasıt bölge olarak değil, akdenizlilik olgusu. Hani isanyolai talyana benzetecek, amaç ekmek yemek. Erzurum orada lafın gelişi, bireysel olarak erzurumlu olup "biz türkler akdenizliyiz" diyen adam tanımıyorum. Ama bir sürü türk kürt tanıyorum "biz akdenizliyiz yea" diye geçinen.

[legolasbozo]

brother legolazbozo, whatever you do, dont quote my pic :)


Don't even know why I bother :confused:

ops, you are so young man, so it is normal to has these complexities, you are also living in other country so when people trying to insult your ethnicity you want to show yourself one of them. it's understandable.

edit: by the way i didn't mean to insult anyone, even kurdo, many white supremacist in west europe and they are willingly to insult middle easterners, so serhildan's attitudes is understandable.

[chocolatcandy]

??

[Proto-Shaman]

lol what a non-sense thread. Armenia is made up of 42% Turkic DNA. According to iGENEA. True? I don't know. WHo cares about such idiotic claims and topics....

[Onur]

In regards to complexion there is no difference between Turks
I told you to stop generalizing all the Turkish people according to your eastern Anatolian DNA and phenotype info, you responded to me by saying "relax" but you do the same thing again now.

Maybe Armenian phenotype is quite similar with your people from Erzurum but i can spot an Armenian from miles away among Turkish people. The rest of Turkey, Blacksea, med, aegean, thrace, central anatolian Turks looks quite distinct from Armenians.

Stop generalizing your views and DNA knowledge anymore!

[orangepulp]

I told you to stop generalizing all the Turkish people according to your eastern Anatolian DNA and phenotype info, you responded to me by saying "relax" but you do the same thing again now.

Maybe Armenian phenotype is quite similar with your people from Erzurum but i can spot an Armenian from miles away among Turkish people. The rest of Turkey, Blacksea, med, aegean, thrace, central anatolian Turks looks quite distinct from Armenians.

Stop generalizing your views and DNA knowledge anymore!


Are you out of your mind?? Yes, you should relax because you are exaggerting everything!! Whats the big deal if Turks resemble Armenians?? What are you some racist? Armenians come in all colors so do Turks so do Assyrians and so do Kurds. Anyway, I didn't say Armenians and Turks look completely similar, I said their skin tones are similar. Armenians are mostly swarthy white and so are Turks. If you are claiming that Turks are snow white then you are just delusional. Not all Turks are white, maybe you are comparing Turks to your fellow Balkan Turks, who are genetically more European than Anatolian Turks. Anatolian Turks dominant genetic components are West Asian, Med and Southwest Asian so are Armenians which would explain similarity in skin tone. Phenotype wise Turks just have softer features while Armenians have more prominent features. Also makes logic since the Turkic influence in Turks would soften their appearence.

[legolasbozo]

Are you out of your mind?? Yes, you should relax because you are exaggerting everything!! Whats the big deal if Turks resemble Armenians?? What are you some racist? Armenians come in all colore so do Turks so do Assyrians and so do Kurds. Anyway, I didn't say Armenians and Turks look completely similar, I said their skin tones are similar. Armenians are mostly swarthy white and so are Turks. If you are claiming that Turks are snow white then you are just delusional. Not all Turks are white, maybe you are comparing Turks to your fellow Balkan Turk, who are genetically more European than Anatolian Turks. Anatolian Turks dominant genetic components are West Asian, Med and Southwest Asian so are Armenians which would explain similarity in skin tone. Phenotype wise Turks just have softer features while Armenians have more prominent features. Also makes logic since the Turkic influence in Turks would soften their appearence.


i guess he is not agree with you about armenian phenotype is common among Turkish people except east anatolia. i guess this is true. And i think there is much diversity in people's looking, additionally i think many anatolian Turk don't have any central asian cluster though. People talk about %7 central asian input, i don't think much of the population has this amount.

[archangel]

lol armenians tend to be swarthy and dark compared to Türks,they look eastern compared to us,similar to kurds and iranians and georgians

plus people in the region around armenia,iran,georgia are mostly armenids,iranids and mtebids so you can figure what they look like

[orangepulp]

hocam kusura bakma ama biz türklerde de vardı bu tavır, bir sürü adam tanıyorum antakyalı, antepli, urfalı biz akdenizliyiz diyor. Senin kültürün de, yemek alışkanlıklarında görünüşünde ortadoğulu, bu kadar basit. Akdeniz'den kasıt bölge olarak değil, akdenizlilik olgusu. Hani isanyolai talyana benzetecek, amaç ekmek yemek. Erzurum orada lafın gelişi, bireysel olarak erzurumlu olup "biz türkler akdenizliyiz" diyen adam tanımıyorum. Ama bir sürü türk kürt tanıyorum "biz akdenizliyiz yea" diye geçinen.

Daha dogurusu Bati ozentilerinden kast ediyorsun ve bunu zaten bende biliyordum. Dunya kadar Bati meraklisi, bati yalakalari var Turkiyede yoksa neden Akdenizliyiz desinlerki? ama neyse sen bir tek Erzurum diyince sandimki ozellikle Erzurumlulardan bu ozentiligi gordun. Zaten ben kendimi Orta Dogulu olarak goruyorum yada en azindan Orta Dogulu degilsemde onlara kendimi daha yakin hissediyorum.

[Pecheneg]

i guess he is not agree with you about armenian phenotype is common among Turkish people except east anatolia. i guess this is true. And i think there is much diversity in people's looking, additionally i think many anatolian Turk don't have any central asian cluster though. People talk about %7 central asian input, i don't think much of the population has this amount.


Genius arkadaşım, rica ediyorum bir bok bilmediğin meseleler hakkında konuşma.

Şimdi biraz vaktimi ayırıp sana özet geçeyim.


Bu "7% central asian" dediğin oran orta asya değil ortalama bir Türk'deki "mongoloid" geninin oranı.
Mongoloid geni nedir peki? İnsanın gözlerini çekik, elmacık kemiklerini çıkık yapan işte bu gendir. "Mongoloid" ile "Orta Asya"yı karıştırmamayı öğren önce.


Oğuzlar ile başlayalım.


Oğuz Grubu



TÜRKMENLER
http://i46.tinypic.com/8ys7qx.jpg

Türkmenistan Türkmenlerinde 15%-20% arası mongoloid gen var. Onlarda Türkiye Türkleri gibi ağırlıklı olarak "batı asyalı / west_asian" dır. Biraz aşina bir göz Türkmenleri Kırgızlardan ve Kazaklardan kolayca ayırt eder.



TÜRKİYE TÜRKLERİ
http://i50.tinypic.com/2vs3f2q.jpg

Türkiye Türklerinde mongoloid oranı ortalama olarak ~7%. Bazı yörelerde bu oran 10%'un üstüne çıkabilirken bazı bölgelerde ortalamanın altına inebiliyor. Dediğim gibi ortalama ~7%.



AZERBAYCAN TÜRKLERİ
http://i46.tinypic.com/sesl6t.jpg

Azerbaycan Türklerinin mongoloid oranı neredeyse Türkiye Türkleri ile aynı, 7% civarı.





KAŞKAYLAR
http://i48.tinypic.com/2namjyx.jpg

16.yy'da İran'ın güneyini Portekizli sömürgecilere karşı koruması için Türk Savefi hanedanı tarafından Erdebil civarından Güney İran'a yerleştirilen savaşçı Azerbaycan Türklerinin torunları, çoğu hala göçebe olarak yaşıyor. Daha fazla bilgi için;
http://theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64877





GAGAUZLAR
http://i46.tinypic.com/kf4hnr.jpg

Kimilerine göre Karadenizin Kuzeyinden gelen Uzların (Oğuzlar) torunları -Peçenek ve Kıpçak etkisini de gözardı etmemek gerek tabi-, kimilerine göre ise Selçuklu Hükümdarı Keykavus ve Selçuklu Türklerinin 13.yy da Dobruca bölgesine yerleşip buradaki Uz-Kuman-Peçeneklerle birleşerek oluşturduğu bir topluluk. Adlarının kökeni konusunda ise "Keykavus >> Gagauz" ya da "Gök-Oğuz >> Gagauz" gibi görüşler var.




Bu grafikte Türkiye Türkleri (Aydın, Kayseri, İstanbul), Azerbaycan Türkleri ve Türkmenistan Türkmenlerinin karşılaştırılması var. Grafikte açık mavi renk "mongoloid" koyu olan ise caucasoid.
http://i47.tinypic.com/6zbt6e.jpg



Gördüğün gibi Türkmenlerin mongoloid oranı Azerbaycan ve Türkiye Türklerininin kabaca 2 katı kadar. Aydın yöresi ise Türkmen ortalamasına biraz daha yakın.


Elimizde Selçuklulara ait genetik veriler yok, ama Selçuklulara günümüzde genetik olarak en yakın olan grup Türkmenistan Türkmenleri olsa gerek, Anadolu'ya Horasan'dan göç eden Selçuklu/Oğuz Türklerininin genetiğini Türkmenistan Türkmenleri gibi kabul edersek 40-50% lere varan orta asya / Türkmen oranı çıkıyor anadolu'da.


Zaten azıcık matematiği olan bir insan Türkmenler (~16-17% mongoloid) ile Türkiye Türklerini (~7% mongoloid) karşılaştırıp kabaca bir hesap yapabilir.
Yinede Selçukluların genetiğini bilmediğimiz için kesin konuşmuyoruz. Ama birkaç bin göçebenin gelip anadolu'yu Türkleştirdiği safsatalarına inanan insan aptaldır. Artık buraya gelen Türkler nüfusun 20%'sini mi 50%'sini mi oluşturdu orasını net bilemeyiz ancak ufak bir elit olmadıkları kesin.


Selçukluların neye benzediğini merak ediyorsun bu başlığıma bakabilirsin, Angus McBride'ın güzel çizimleri var ve bence biraz örtüşüyor gerçekle.
http://theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68441




Gelelim Oğuz olmayan Türklere



Kazaklar
http://i50.tinypic.com/axw.jpg

Türkçenin Kıpçak lehçesini konuşan orta asyalı bir Türk topluluğu.
Bildiğim kadarıyla otozomal dna olarak bakarsan 60% civarı mongoloid gene sahipler. Peki sapsarı Slavların bile "Polovtsy=Sarışın" dediği Kuman-Kıpçaklar nasıl oldu da Kazakistan'da Moğollara benzediler? Kiyat, Duğlat, Nayman, Kerait, Onggirat, Calayır gibi bir sürü Moğol boyunun Kazak bozkırlarına göç edip bölgedeki Türk boylarıyla karışmasıyla. Peki bu onların Türklüklerinden bir şey eksiltir mi? Kesinlikle hayır, tıpkı bizdeki yerli anadolu kanının Türklüğümüzden birşey eksiltmediği gibi. Günümüzde karışmayan Türk topluluğu yoktur, üstelik Kazakların karıştıkları Moğollarda Altay kavimlerinden.

Mesela Türk topluluklarında mongoloid Y kromozomu olarak "Q" ve "N" ön plana çıkarken, Kazaklarda Moğollarda yaygın olan "C" kromozomu ağırlıkta.

Kazak Y-dna'sı
http://i50.tinypic.com/143mf86.gif


Yine bazı zeki arkadaşlar Selçuklu-Oğuz Türklerinin Horasan'a günümüz Kazakistan'ındaki Aral gölü çevresinden gelip yerleştiğini göz önünde bulundurarak "Oğuzlar genetik olarak Kazaklar gibiydiler" derler bazen. Oğuzlar o yöreyi terk edeli o bozkırlardan kimler gelip geçti onu hiç düşünmezler tabi.



Kırgızlar
http://i50.tinypic.com/28sr5p4.jpg

Hatırladığım kadarıyla 70%'e yakın mongoloid genleri olan bir Türk topluluğu. Eski kaynaklarda "kızıl saçlı, açık tenli, yeşil gözlü" tarif edilen Kırgızlar nasıl bugünkü görünümlerine kavuştular dersin?

Yıl M.S. 1000, Kırgızlar'ın konumu; Orta Sibirya - Yenisey bölgesi.
http://i49.tinypic.com/30k61hh.jpg


İlk Kırgızların bu bölgeye 6.yy da geldiği söylenir. 13.yy'a kadar bu bölgede kalıp Türk olmayan yerli Sibiryalılarla/Yeniseylilerle karıştılar. Daha sonra 13.yy da günümüz Kırgızistan topraklarının olduğu orta asyadaki Tanrı Dağları civarına gelip yerleştiler.




Tüm bunları neden anlattım? Tarih bilgisinden yoksun bazı aşırı zeki arkadaşların Kırgızları, Yakutları, Kazakları sırf daha mongoloid olmalarından dolayı hiç karışmamış safkan Türkler sanmaları. Karışmayan hiç bir topluluk yoktur yeryüzünde. İlk Türkler muhtemelen mongoloid-caucasoid arasında birşeydi ama her yana dağılıp karşılaştıkları kavimlerle karıştılar.

Mesela orta asya kavimlerinden olan Soğdların birçoğu Selçuklular içerisinde eriyip onların bir parçası haline geldiler. Günümüz Türkiye Türkçesindeki "acun, kent, yahni, borç" ve daha birçok sözcüğün Soğdcadan Türkçeye Selçuklular döneminde geçtiği söylenir, bu sözcükler ta Anadolu'ya kadar taşınmış.

[Su]

I think Onur was too aggressive but what he meant was simply that Armenians usually ggot an overlap with Eastern Turks regarding looks, while Armenians got no or very little overlap regarding looks with the rest of Turkey, which I agree.

But Orangepulp meant just the skin complexion of Turks and Armenians are overlaping and nothing else, which I agree as well, since Armenians as well as Turks got darker skin coloured people as well as lighter.

In a way both users are right with the above points.

[orangepulp]

But Orangepulp meant just the skin complexion of Turks and Armenians are overlaping and nothing else, which I agree as well, since Armenians as well as Turks got darker skin coloured people as well as lighter.

In a way both users are right with the above points.

That's exactly what I meant that Turks and Armenians are not white. They are both swarthy whites, I didn't mean they look exactly like each other although there may be some overlapping phenotype wise.

It seems Onur has a reading comprehension problem.

[Onur]

I think Onur was too aggressive but what he meant was simply that Armenians usually ggot an overlap with Eastern Turks regarding looks, while Armenians got no or very little overlap regarding looks with the rest of Turkey, which I agree.
Yes i was a bit aggressive because she always refuses to accept anything we (usually me and Ashina but others too) told to her but she keeps repeating her usual nonsense.

Yes, i meant that the Armenian lookalikes in Turkey can only be found among eastern Anatolian Turks and the population of this region was never above 2-3% of whole Turkey throughout history. She has some kind of obsessive idea that Armenians looks like Turks and Turks supposedly carry similar DNA with Armenians by solely looking at her and her family`s DNA. She cant comprehend that eastern Anatolian Turks are a tiny minority among Turkish people.

Look what she just said above;

Not all Turks are white, maybe you are comparing Turks to your fellow Balkan Turks, who are genetically more European than Anatolian Turks. Anatolian Turks dominant genetic components are West Asian, Med and Southwest Asian so are Armenians which would explain similarity in skin tone.
She is trying to respond to me by using same argument but she doesn't even aware that more than 30 million people in Turkey have roots from Balkans. She is trying to miniscule 30+ million Turks while exaggerating the influence of eastern Anatolian Turks who never exceeded 2-3% of whole Turkey population wise.

[Annihilus]

Ofc Anatolian Armenians are going to look like Turks, they are basically the same people.

[Pecheneg]

I told you to stop generalizing all the Turkish people according to your eastern Anatolian DNA and phenotype info, you responded to me by saying "relax" but you do the same thing again now.

Maybe Armenian phenotype is quite similar with your people from Erzurum but i can spot an Armenian from miles away among Turkish people. The rest of Turkey, Blacksea, med, aegean, thrace, central anatolian Turks looks quite distinct from Armenians.

Stop generalizing your views and DNA knowledge anymore!

Onur, tüm Türkleri genellemesini bırak, Doğu Anadolu ve Doğu Karadeniz bölgelerini 5-10 kişinin dna sonucuna bakarak genellemesi de çok yanlış.

Bayburt ve çevresine 100.000 Çepni'nin yerleştiği söyleniyor.

Anası babası Bayburtlu bir arkadaşım, Turanid değil mi sizce? (resmi quote etmeyin lütfen silicem)

...




Mesela Doğu Karadeniz'de bulunan Giresun ili, yahu ben Giresunlu o kadar çok Turanid gördüm ki Osmanlı zamanında neden Giresun'a "Vilayet-i Çepni" deniyormuş kavradım. Bu arada yanlış anlaşılmasın, Turanid'i tek Türk tipi olarak göstermiyorum.




Sonra Doğu Anadolu'da bulunan Kars, Ardahan, Iğdır ve çevresi. Buralar Karapapak, Terekeme, Azerbaycan Türk'ü dolu.




Anadolu'nun en kalabalık Türkmen boylarından biri olan Karakeçililer bilin bakalım en yoğun nerelerde bulunuyorlar?
http://www.karakecili-asireti.com/viewpage.php?page_id=3

Marmara bölgesi - Balıkesir - 80 köy ile birinci sırada
Doğu Anadolu bölgesi - Elazığ - 63 Karakeçili köyü ile ikinci.

Sonrasında Bursa ve Şanlı Urfa illeri geliyor.




Trabzon'da hakkında en çok dırdır edilen illerden biri. Genius arkadaşlara göre bu ildeki herkes Rum veya Lazdır. Peki Trabzon'un fethinden sonra o bölgeyi Türkleştirmek için başta Maraş(Dulkadir) yöresinden olmak üzere daha birçok ilden yerleştirilen Türklere ne oldu? Çepnilere ne oldu? Hepsi buhar mı oldular?


Yahu kaç gündür neredeyse "Kuzey Anadolulu Türkler Ermenidir" diyor bazı arkadaşlarımız, bu kadar da olmaz.





Ofc Anatolian Armenians are going to look like Turks, they are basically the same people.

He amk he. Aferin.

[orangepulp]

Yes i was a bit aggressive because she always refuses to accept anything we (usually me and Ashina but others too) told to her but she keeps repeating her usual nonsense.

Yes, i meant that the Armenian lookalikes in Turkey can only be found among eastern Anatolian Turks and the population of this region was never above 2-3% of whole Turkey throughout history. She has some kind of obsessive idea that Armenians looks like Turks and Turks supposedly carry similar DNA with Armenians by solely looking at her and her family`s DNA. She cant comprehend that eastern Anatolian Turks are a tiny minority among Turkish people.

Look what she just said above;

She is trying to respond to me by using same argument but she doesn't even aware that more than 30 million people in Turkey have roots from Balkans. She is trying to miniscule 30+ million Turks while exaggerating the population of eastern Anatolian Turks who never exceeded 2-3% of whole Turkey population wise.
Again reading comprehension problem, where the hell did you learn English, seriously??

I am not comparing all of Turkey to North Eastern parts of Turkey, where did I say this?? Nor did I say Turks look completely like Armenians, I said they are both swarthy in complexion.

30 million may have Balkan roots but what about the rest of the Turks, who do you think they mixed with?? Are you telling me they are 100% Central Asian genetically??Even central Anatolians have a certain connection with preTurkic people. Su is a Turk from Kayseri and in her Relative Finder she has an Armenian, many Turks do find West Asian relatives on their DNA tests. I am not saying Turks are completely Anatolian but they are ranging from 50-100% Anatolian.

[Dengizik]

Anası babası Bayburtlu bir arkadaşım, Turanid değil mi sizce? (resmi quote etmeyin lütfen silicem)



Evet.

[Onur]

Onur, tüm Türkleri genellemesini bırak, Doğu Anadolu ve Doğu Karadeniz bölgelerini 5-10 kişinin dna sonucuna bakarak genellemesi de çok yanlış.

Sonra Doğu Anadolu'da bulunan Kars, Ardahan, Iğdır ve çevresi. Buralar Karapapak, Terekeme, Azerbaycan Türk'ü dolu.
Evet çok haklısın. O bölgelerde Türkmen gruplarına ait ve Azerbaycan ağzıyla konuşan insanlar dolu.

Ben şunu kastettim, hadi diyelim orangepulp`ın dediği doğru olsun, öyle olsa ne yazar? Çünkü oraların nüfusunu Türkiyenin toplam nüfusuna oranlarsak küçücük bir kesim bu bölgeler. Sadece oradaki insanların DNA`sına bakarak Türkiyeyi yorumlayamazsın.

Ama ben Orangepulp`ın demek istediğini biliyorum. Onunla daha önceki tartışmalarımızda bana verdiği cevaplarla belli etmişti. Kendisi Balkanlardan gelenlerin Türk olmadığını, Anadoludaki insanlarında Türkleşmiş Ermeniler, Yunanlılar olduğunu düşünüyor. Ayrıca doğu Anadoludaki senin bahsettiğin Türkmen grupları ve Azeri ağzı konuşanları tamamen yok sayıyor, ya da onlarıda Ermeni dönmesi olarak görüyordur, artık o kadar detayını bilemeyeceğim. Hatta belki okumuşsundur, bir ara Erzurumluların oraya fii tarihinde gelen Araplar tarafından müslümanlaştırıldığını ve daha sonra Türk yöneticilerden özenerek zamanla Türkleştiklerini savunmuştu :picard2:

Birde ilginç olan, kendini "müslüman" diye tanımlayan bir insanın etnik gruplara bu kadar ilgili olması ve istediği şeyleri abartarak, istemediklerini görmezden gelerek bazı saplantılı fikirlere sahip olması.

[orangepulp]

Evet çok haklısın. O bölgelerde Türkmen gruplarına ait ve Azerbaycan ağzıyla konuşan insanlar dolu.

Ben şunu kastettim, hadi diyelim orangepulp`ın dediği doğru olsun, öyle olsa ne yazar? Çünkü oraların nüfusunu Türkiyenin toplam nüfusuna oranlarsak küçücük bir kesim bu bölgeler. Sadece oradaki insanların DNA`sına bakarak Türkiyeyi yorumlayamazsın.

Ama ben Orangepulp`ın demek istediğini biliyorum. Onunla daha önceki tartışmalarımızda bana verdiği cevaplarla belli etmişti. Kendisi Balkanlardan gelenlerin Türk olmadığını, Anadoludaki insanlarında Türkleşmiş Ermeniler, Yunanlılar olduğunu düşünüyor. Ayrıca doğu Anadoludaki senin bahsettiğin Türkmen grupları ve Azeri ağzı konuşanları tamamen yok sayıyor, ya da onlarıda Ermeni dönmesi olarak görüyordur, artık o kadar detayını bilemeyeceğim. Hatta belki okumuşsundur, bir ara Erzurumluların oraya fii tarihinde gelen Araplar tarafından müslümanlaştırıldığını ve daha sonra Türk yöneticilerden özenerek zamanla Türkleştiklerini savunmuştu :picard2:

Birde ilginç olan, kendini "müslüman" diye tanımlayan bir insanın etnik gruplara bu kadar ilgili olması ve istediği şeyleri abartarak, istemediklerini görmezden gelerek bazı saplantılı fikirlere sahip olması.

Her sey birbirine karistirdin. Oncelikle hatirlarsan sen bana Turkiyede din serbest olmadigi icin beyenmiyorsam bu topraklardan gitmemi soylemistin bende bu yazina karsilik asil senin bu topraklardan gitmen gerekir cunku nede olsa Anadoluya sen yeni geldin, ben degil. Aslinda bu sozunden ne kadar iki yuzlu bir insan oldugun ortaya cikti. Turkluk diye tutturuyorsun, milliyetcilik yapiyorsun ama Turk dindar oldumu onu disliyorsun.Musluman Turklere hic saygin yok. Yoksa Balkandan gelen birinin kendine Turk diyiyorsa o bir Turktur. Ben daha dogurusu senin din dusmanligindan dolay seni direk kast etmistim yoksa sozlerim butun Balkan Turklere degildi. Ve ben bir Turkun DNAsindan dolayi ayirmam ama sadece gercekleride kabul ediyorum, su andaki Anadolu ve Balkan Turkleri yerli insanlarla karismislar. Balkan Turkleri genetik olarak daha avrupali, Anadolu Turkleride daha Anadolulu. Orta Asya etkisini inkar etmiyorum ama sizede nerdeyse Turkic olmayan etkileri inkar ediyorsunuz.

Erzurumun Araplardan tarafi Musluman olmalari sadece benim tarafimdan bir fikirdi, olabilir olmayabilirde bunu kac kez belirtmistim ama sen hala benim sana defalarca acikladigim seyleri tekrarliyorsun aynen papaganlar gibi.

[Su]

Yau tamam yau, kizin ustune gene yurudunuz.

O dis gorunus hakkinda kizin dedigi dogru, bizdede hem esmer var hem acik tenli var , aynisi Ermeniler icin gecerli. Kiz suratlari ayni demedi, ten renklerinde benzerlik var dedi, buda dogru, heralde her Turk bembeyaz her Ermeni kapkara degil, iki ulkedede esmer ve acik tenliler mevcuttur.

DNA olarakta bildigimiz gibi yoreden yoreye hatta bence sehirden sehire degisiyor.

[Partizan]

Daha dogurusu Bati ozentilerinden kast ediyorsun ve bunu zaten bende biliyordum. Dunya kadar Bati meraklisi, bati yalakalari var Turkiyede yoksa neden Akdenizliyiz desinlerki? ama neyse sen bir tek Erzurum diyince sandimki ozellikle Erzurumlulardan bu ozentiligi gordun. Zaten ben kendimi Orta Dogulu olarak goruyorum yada en azindan Orta Dogulu degilsemde onlara kendimi daha yakin hissediyorum.

Kusura bakma ama bence "Orta Doğuluyum" demek de Avrupacılık yapmakla aynı. Bir kere neyin Orta'sı, neyin Doğu'su? Batılıların kafalarına göre oraya buraya isim takma takıntılarından biri. Ayrıca Cezayirli sevgilim de oldu, Lübnan'ı Suriye'yi de gezdim, açıkcası sadece Hatay bana oralara benzer geldi. Kuzey Afrika zaten apayrı. Biz bize benzeriz, Anadolulu(Kafkas+Balkan+Levant) ile Orta Asyalı Oğuzların karışımıyız. Tutup da kendimi Yemenli ile aynı kategoride göremem.

[Su]

Ama ben Orangepulp`ın demek istediğini biliyorum. Onunla daha önceki tartışmalarımızda bana verdiği cevaplarla belli etmişti. Kendisi Balkanlardan gelenlerin Türk olmadığını

Sen Orangepulp kiskirtmistin, oda sana inat oyle dedi. Sen onu kiskirtmasaydin o oyle bir sey demezdi.

[orangepulp]

Kusura bakma ama bence "Orta Doğuluyum" demek de Avrupacılık yapmakla aynı. Bir kere neyin Orta'sı, neyin Doğu'su? Batılıların kafalarına göre oraya buraya isim takma takıntılarından biri. Ayrıca Cezayirli sevgilim de oldu, Lübnan'ı Suriye'yi de gezdim, açıkcası sadece Hatay bana oralara benzer geldi. Kuzey Afrika zaten apayrı. Biz bize benzeriz, Anadolulu(Kafkas+Balkan+Levant) ile Orta Asyalı Oğuzların karışımıyız. Tutup da kendimi Yemenli ile aynı kategoride göremem.

Bu sadece benim kendi hislerim. Arap dunyasinda ve Araplarla cok iliskim oldugu icin ve Araplarda Turkleri sevdigi icin bende onlara karsi biraz yakinlik hissediyorum en azindan Avrupalilara kiyaslayinca, yoksa oyle cok Arap delisi degilim. Zaten Araptan Araba bile fark var, mesela bana Suriyeliler o kadarda yabanci gelmiyor ama bu benim fikrim. Ve tabiki Avrupalilara yakinlik hissetmek farkli, Orta Dogululara yakinlik hissetmek farkli. Mesela eger bir Turk kendini Avrupalilara yakin tutsa bu kisiye herkez yalak gozugle bakar ve ustelik Avrupalilar Turkleri pek sevmez ama baska bir Turk ben Orta Doguluyum dese hic kimse onu yalaka diye gormez.

Ama evet haklisin bizim kulturumuz karismis.

[Su]

Bu sadece benim kendi hislerim. Arap dunyasinda ve Araplarla cok iliskim oldugu icin ve Araplarda Turkleri sevdigi icin bende onlara karsi biraz yakinlik hissediyorum en azindan Avrupalilara kiyaslayinca, yoksa oyle cok Arap delisi degilim. Zaten Araptan Araba bile fark var, mesela bana Suriyeliler o kadarda yabanci gelmiyor ama bu benim fikrim. Ve tabiki Avrupalilara yakinlik hissetmek farkli, Orta Dogululara yakinlik hissetmek farkli. Mesela eger bir Turk kendini Avrupalilara yakin tutsa bu kisiye herkez yalak gozugle bakar ve ustelik Avrupalilar Turkleri pek sevmez ama baska bir Turk ben Orta Doguluyum dese hic kimse onu yalaka diye gormez.

Ama evet haklisin bizim kulturumz karismis.

Ben seni anliyorum.

Neyse ama su bir gercekki aslinda bizim Balkanlilarlada cok fazla seyde ortak yanimiz var ama biz Muslumaniz diye ve Osmanlilarin 500 yillik kuyruk acisindan dolayi ve suanki ekonomimiz ve zenginligimiz tam tamina asiri yuksek olmadigi icin bizden nefret ediyorlar genelde sadace Musluman Balkanlar bizi sever.

Ama gercekte bence bizim hem komsumuz olan Arablarla hemde Balkanlarla cok yonumuzde ayniyiz veya cok benzeriz.

[alfieb]

Ofc Anatolian Armenians are going to look like Turks, they are basically the same people.

Greeks?

[Hoca]

Bizim Turklerde ne kadar cok ermeni tohumu olmak istiyen meraklisi varmis.

Su orangepulp'mi neyse allahin kurdu, turkleri kotuluyor.

[Onur]

Ama gercekte bence bizim hem komsumuz olan Arablarla hemde Balkanlarla cok yonumuzde ayniyiz veya cok benzeriz.
Araplarla din ve Lübnan, Suriye gibi birkaç yerdeki mutfak kültürü dışında hiçbir benzerlik yok. Ki dinde kağıt üzerinde aynı. Araplardaki müslümanlık anlayışıyla Türkiyedeki müslümanlık anlayışı birbirinden tamamen farklı. Bizim kendimize has, Balkanlardan başka yerde olmayan bir islam anlayışımız var [Son zamanlarda Türk islam anlayışını Araplaştırma çabası var ama bu ayrı mesele]. Zaten Türkiyedeki müslümanlar klasik Arap-islam anlayışına göre zaten toptan kafirdir.

Balkanlarla ise din farklı ama birçok ortak yönümüz vardır. Zaten Osmanlı imp. bir Balkan imparatorluğuydu, Anadolu değil. Bunu İlber Ortaylı gibi birçok tarihçi söyler. Balkanları alınca imparatorluk oldu, Balkanlar gidince imparatorlukta battı. Osmanlı ortadoğuyuda yönetti ama oraya sadece birkaç görevliyle valiler gitti, kalan herşeyi Arap aşiretleri kendileri idare etti. Balkanlara ise bizzat insanlar gitti, oraları kendine vatan yaptı. Arabistanda böyle birşey hiçbir zaman olmadı. Hiç düşündünmü niye Sırpçada bugün 8000 Türkçeden geçme kelime varken, niye mesela dibimizdeki Suriye Arapçasında bunun 10`da 1`i bile belki yoktur?

Türklerin Balkanlılarla Araplara göre çok daha fazla yakınlığı vardır. Ha bundan ne Balkan ülkelerinde ne de Türkiyede malum sebeblerden dolayı 1912`den beri pek söz edilmez, konuşulmaz, o ayrı mesele.

[orangepulp]

Bizim Turklerde ne kadar cok ermeni tohumu olmak istiyen meraklisi varmis.

Su orangepulp'mi neyse allahin kurdu, turkleri kotuluyor.

Bana kurt diyerek hakaret etmeye calisman cok komik sanki kendi irkini secmek senin elindeymis gibi. Ne abartiyorsun kendini nede olsa bagirsaklarin diskiyla dolu. Allah isteseydi seni zencide yaratabilirdi.

Ermeni olmaya calisan kimse yok ama geneteik olarak Turklerin Ermenilerle, gurculerle, Iranlilarla ve diger Bati Asyalilarla bir nevi yakinlik gosteriyorlar.

Ama her neyse Kurt degilim ve bunu herkez biliyor.

[Su]

Araplarla din ve Lübnan, Suriye gibi birkaç yerdeki mutfak kültürü dışında hiçbir benzerlik yok. Ki dinde kağıt üzerinde aynı. Araplardaki müslümanlık anlayışıyla Türkiyedeki müslümanlık anlayışı birbirinden tamamen farklı. Bizim kendimize has, Balkanlardan başka yerde olmayan bir islam anlayışımız var [Son zamanlarda Türk islam anlayışını Araplaştırma çabası var ama bu ayrı mesele]. Zaten Türkiyedeki müslümanlar klasik Arap-islam anlayışına göre zaten toptan kafirdir.

Balkanlarla ise din farklı ama birçok ortak yönümüz vardır. Zaten Osmanlı imp. bir Balkan imparatorluğuydu, Anadolu değil. Osmanlı ortadoğuyuda yönetti ama oraya sadece birkaç görevliyle valiler gitti, kalan herşeyi Arap aşiretleri kendileri idare etti. Balkanlara ise bizzat insanlar gitti, oraları kendine vatan yaptı. Arabistanda böyle birşey hiçbir zaman olmadı. Hiç düşündünmü niye Sırpçada bugün 8000 Türkçeden geçme kelime varken, mesela dibimizdeki Suriye Arapçasında bunun 10`da 1`i bile belki yoktur?

Türklerin Balkanlılarla Araplara göre çok daha fazla yakınlığı vardır. Ha bundan ne Balkan ülkelerinde ne de Türkiyede malum sebeblerden dolayı pek söz edilmez, o ayrı mesele.

Ben soyle dusunuyorum: Marmara ve Ege bolgesinde yogunluk Balkandir, ama Dogu Anadolu ve Gunezdogu Anadolu bolgelerinde yogunluk Arab kulture daha yakin bence.

Karadeniz bolgesi baslica kendi kendine ayri bir kultur bence, ne Arablara ne Balkanlarla aman aman bir benzerlik bence yok. Belki Kafkas diyebilirz?

Ic Anadolu ve Akdeniz bolgeleride eh karisik gibi bir sey.

Yani isler gene bolgeden bolgeye degisiyor. Hatta bence bolge icinde bile sehirden sehire atliyabilir.

[Su]

Bizim Turklerde ne kadar cok ermeni tohumu olmak istiyen meraklisi varmis.

Su orangepulp'mi neyse allahin kurdu, turkleri kotuluyor.

Yok o Kurt degil, normal Turk. Ama bence onun yazdigi seyler yanlis anlasildi bazen. Ben onu baska forumdanda taniyorum, aslinda milliyetcidir. O kac kere Turkiye'ye kufur edenlerle tartismistir.

[Onur]

Ben soyle dusunuyorum: Marmara ve Ege bolgesinde yogunluk Balkandir, ama Dogu Anadolu ve Gunezdogu Anadolu bolgelerinde yogunluk Arab kulture daha yakin bence.

Karadeniz bolgesi baslica kendi kendine ayri bir kultur bence, ne Arablara ne Balkanlarla aman aman bir benzerlik bence yok. Belki Kafkas diyebilirz?

Ic Anadolu ve Akdeniz bolgeleride eh karisik gibi bir sey.

Yani isler gene bolgeden bolgeye degisiyor. Hatta bence bolge icinde bile sehirden sehire atliyabilir.
Evet doğru, ama sanada Orangepulp`a hatırlattığım noktayı yine hatırlatayım. O Araplara yakın olan doğu ve güneydoğu anadolu halkı Türkiyenin 2-3%`ünü temsil eder, daha fazlası değil.

Türkiyenin genel yapısına bakacaksan Ege, Marmara, orta Anadolu, Akdeniz`e bakacaksın çünkü nüfusun %85-90`ı buralarda yaşar. Doğu Anadoludaki 1-2 milyon insan Araplara yakınmış, değilmiş, bu Türkiyenin geneline endekslenemez.

[Su]

Evet doğru, ama sanada Orangepulp`a hatırlattığım noktayı yine hatırlatayım. O Araplara yakın olan doğu ve güneydoğu anadolu halkı Türkiyenin 2-3%`ünü temsil eder, daha fazlası değil.

Türkiyenin genel yapısına bakacaksan Ege, Marmara, orta Anadolu, Akdeniz`e bakacaksın çünkü nüfusun %85-90`ı buralarda yaşar. Doğu Anadoludaki 1-2 milyon insan Araplara yakınmış, değilmiş, bu Türkiyenin geneline endekslenemez.

Tamam genelleyemeyiz ama bu kisminida ignore etmeyelim. Cunku 1-2 milyon (Simdi Dogu Anadoludaki ve Guneydogu Anadoluda cidden sadece 1-2 milyon Turk mu var?! Emin misin? Gaziantep Turk sehri, yerlisi Turk, Kurtler sonradda fakirlikten geldi, Malatya yarisi Turk, Erzurum, Erzincan ordada Turkler cok). Hadi digelim cidden sadece 1-2 milyon Turk orda % olarak Turkiye genelince az ama sayi bakimindan gene 1-2 milyon yuksek, goz ardi olmamali.

[legolasbozo]

Genius arkadaşım, rica ediyorum bir bok bilmediğin meseleler hakkında konuşma.

Şimdi biraz vaktimi ayırıp sana özet geçeyim.


Bu "7% central asian" dediğin oran orta asya değil ortalama bir Türk'deki "mongoloid" geninin oranı.
Mongoloid geni nedir peki? İnsanın gözlerini çekik, elmacık kemiklerini çıkık yapan işte bu gendir. "Mongoloid" ile "Orta Asya"yı karıştırmamayı öğren önce.


Tüm bunları neden anlattım? Tarih bilgisinden yoksun bazı aşırı zeki arkadaşların Kırgızları, Yakutları, Kazakları sırf daha mongoloid olmalarından dolayı hiç karışmamış safkan Türkler sanmaları. Karışmayan hiç bir topluluk yoktur yeryüzünde. İlk Türkler muhtemelen mongoloid-caucasoid arasında birşeydi ama her yana dağılıp karşılaştıkları kavimlerle karıştılar.

Mesela orta asya kavimlerinden olan Soğdların birçoğu Selçuklular içerisinde eriyip onların bir parçası haline geldiler. Günümüz Türkiye Türkçesindeki "acun, kent, yahni, borç" ve daha birçok sözcüğün Soğdcadan Türkçeye Selçuklular döneminde geçtiği söylenir, bu sözcükler ta Anadolu'ya kadar taşınmış.


Öncelikle işe küfürle başladığın zaman savların daha iyi idrak ediliyor diye bir sanrın varsa, çok yanlış düşünüyorsun hocam. Ben niye gözlerimiz çekik değil, o zaman türk değiliz biz diyerek söylemiyorum bunu. Daha önceden hakikatten böyle düşünüyordum, fakat bazı arkadaşlar aydınlattı beni ve bu durum kafama yattı. Ben antropoloji ile hobi olarak ilgileniyorum, ama genetik haritası çıkarılsa orta asya'dakilerden daha çok bölgesine göre değişmekle birlikte ki doğu ve güneydoğu anadoludaki nüfusu ele alırsak iranlısıyla, ermenisiyle uyuşur bizi sonuçlarımız, ama buradakilerde hala bir iddiadır gidiyor. bu kadar saplantılı bir bakış açısı gereksiz.

[Onur]

Tamam genelleyemeyiz ama bu kisminida ignore etmeyelim. Cunku 1-2 milyon (Simdi Dogu Anadoludaki ve Guneydogu Anadoluda cidden sadece 1-2 milyon Turk mu var?!
Oralarda 1-2 milyon Türk var demek istemedim. Araplarla akraba ya da kültürel anlamda yakın olan 1-2 milyon Türk vardır, daha fazla değildir.

Malatya, Erzurum, Antepteki tüm Türklerin Araplarla kültürel ya da genetik anlamda akraba, yakın olduklarını iddia edemeyiz, değilmi? Hadi oradaki insanların hepsi Araplalarla yakın diye düşünelim, nüfusu kaç bu üç şehrin? 3`ünün toplamı anca bir milyon eder (Kürtler dahil)!

Kısacası, buradaki insanların sayısı Trakyadan bile azdır ve bu geçmiştede böyleydi. Tamam, "ignore" etmeyelim, ama lütfen Orangepulp`ın yaptığı gibide sanki bu bölgelerin Türkiye çapında kültürel ve genetik anlamda büyük ağırlığı varmış gibide konuşmayalım, değilmi?

[legolasbozo]

Kusura bakma ama bence "Orta Doğuluyum" demek de Avrupacılık yapmakla aynı. Bir kere neyin Orta'sı, neyin Doğu'su? Batılıların kafalarına göre oraya buraya isim takma takıntılarından biri. Ayrıca Cezayirli sevgilim de oldu, Lübnan'ı Suriye'yi de gezdim, açıkcası sadece Hatay bana oralara benzer geldi. Kuzey Afrika zaten apayrı. Biz bize benzeriz, Anadolulu(Kafkas+Balkan+Levant) ile Orta Asyalı Oğuzların karışımıyız. Tutup da kendimi Yemenli ile aynı kategoride göremem.

Çok doğru bir tanım ama bu sivas tan sonrası için geçerli değil işte. Erzurum'u, antep'i tuncelisi(ki türkmendir çoğu) saydığın özelliklere ne kadar sahip? Benim kastettiğim şu türkmen aşiretlerini, yörükleri vs işin dışında tutarsan karadeniz iç anadoludan çok farklı, her açıdan, çankırı antep'ten çok farklı, antep aydın'dan farklı. Bunları orta asyalılık olgusu üzerinden birleştiremezsin zorlama olur. Ben çankırılıyım, buraya gelene kadar balkanları avrupa diye düşünmemiştim, benim çalgı çengi kültürümde, yemekkültürümde, düğün adetlerimde oraya yakın çünkü. Olayın farklı ifade edildiğini burada gördüm. Orta doğu asya'da ama ortalama vatandaş ilk intiba asya olarak düşünmez, orta doğu orta doğudur. Balkanlarda böyle, coğrafyayla kısıtlayamazsın bu kadar basit, tabii bu benim fikrim.

[Su]

Oralarda 1-2 milyon Türk var demek istemedim. Araplarla akraba ya da kültürel anlamda yakın olan 1-2 milyon Türk vardır, daha fazla değildir.

Malatya, Erzurum, Antepteki tüm Türklerin Araplarla kültürel ya da genetik anlamda akraba, yakın olduklarını iddia edemeyiz, değilmi? Hadi oradaki insanların hepsi Araplalarla yakın diye düşünelim, nüfusu kaç bu üç şehrin? 3`ünün toplamı anca bir milyon eder (Kürtler dahil)!

Kısacası, buradaki insanların sayısı Trakyadan bile azdır ve bu geçmiştede böyleydi. Tamam, "ignore" etmeyelim, ama lütfen Orangepulp`ın yaptığı gibide sanki bu bölgelerin Türkiye çapında kültürel ve genetik anlamda büyük ağırlığı varmış gibide konuşmayalım, değilmi?

Ah simdi nedemek istedigini anladim, hayir bence Dogudaki nufus kulturel olarak daha cok Araplara yakin, Balkanlara degil.

Benim icin Dogu Anadolu ve Guneydogu Anadolu kulturel anlamdan Marmara ve Ege bolgesine nazaran daha cok Ortadogu kulturu hakim, bu bolgeler bence Marmara ve Ege gibi Avrupai degil. Ondan ben 1-2 milyon olarak dusunmuyorum, cok daha fazla dusunuyorum.

Sen kendin Egelisin, sen kendin bir Guneydogulu / Dogu Anadolulu bir vatandasin kulturel olarak senden farklarini gormuyor musun? Ben Ic Anadolulu olmama nazaran ben bile fark goruyorum. Ornek: Gorucu usuluyle evlilik en con Egeliler mi yapar yoksa Dogu Anadolu/ Guneydogu Anadolular mi yapar? Ve bu kultur Arap kulturune mi yakin yoksa Balkan mi?

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Araplara yakin olmakla ne kastettiğinizi bir anlatsanız .Benim bildiğim Güneydoğu Anadolunun bazı şehirleri hariç Arap kültürünün de geninin de Türkiye'de belirgin bir etkisi yok.Ne müzikleri (arabesk gibi zorlama ticari müzikler dışında ) benziyor,ne halk müziğimizde bir kültürel etkisi var ,ne gelenekleri ,ne giyimleri bize yakın .
Onlar bizi tanımıyor (Tek bildikleri Türklerin Müslüman olduğu eh zaten tüm dünyada herkes biliyor bunu) ,bizim de onlar hakkında pek bir bilgimiz yok.Son zamanlarda diziler nedeniyle tek taraflı bir etkileşim başladı elbette.

Kültür derken ben ortalama halk kültürünü alıyorum ,buna köy kültürü de dahil.Bir Türk köyünde batılı olan pek fazla öğe olmadığı gibi Arap kültüründen de herhangi bir etki göremiyorum.

Batı olmayan herşey = Arap değil yani.Ayrıca doğu/Asya olan herşey de Arap değil.

Eğer yer sofrasında yemek yemeyi ya da ayakkabıların dışarıda bırakılmasını kastediyorsanız bunların tüm doğuda var zaten, uzak asyaya kadar ayakkabı evde giyilmez ,yer sofrasında örtü dizlere kadar çekilir uzakdoğunun tuvaletleri bizim alaturka dediğimizdendir. Görücü usulü evlilik Çin'de de var .Belki Asya kültürüne coğrafi olarak uzak kaldığımız için doğuyu sadece Ortadoğu sanıyoruz.

Ama mesala Anadolu köylerinde haremlik selamlık yok benim bildiğim..Düğünlerde de bu böyle değil mi..
Türk kültürü ayrı bir kültür .Birine benzemek zorunda da değil.

UaV8CB5h4Ek

[Annihilus]

Greeks?

I think it comes from something older than Greeks, anyway this topic is about East Anatolia mainly and it is complicated enough without adding Greeks to the equation.

[Onur]

Su, sana cevap yazıcaktım ama Siberian C. B. çok güzel şekilde anlatmış. Fazlasına ihtiyaç yok. Bende ona katılıyorum.

[d3cimat3d]

they look eastern compared to us,

They are Eastern. :picard1: but I agree Eastern Anatolians are swarthier, but Armenians are usually taller than Turks.

Compare Turkish-Australian bodybuilder "SupaTurk":

http://i46.tinypic.com/2s8sbc9.jpg

to his Yezidi Armenian friend, "Aziz":

http://i46.tinypic.com/25zowec.jpg



plus people in the region around armenia,iran,georgia are mostly armenids,iranids and mtebids so you can figure what they look like

Those phenoypes all overlap including with Taurid, found in Central Turkey. And Armenid isn't so bad, it's closely related to Dinarid.

[Hoca]

The funny thing is that the Armenian OP ran away from this thread after he got rough talked by Europeans :D

Try your luck on far-right forums, Armo. Maybe the Christian card will work there.

[Gospodine]

Compare Turkish-Australian bodybuilder "SupaTurk":

to his Yezidi Armenian friend, "Aziz":

Great examples there man; two roid-monkeys who sleep in tanning beds at night :thumb001:

[Il Principe]

his Yezidi Armenian friend, "Aziz":

http://i46.tinypic.com/25zowec.jpg
Ye gods, what a hideous Near Eastern specimen.:eek: Everything about him is crass and ugly, from the rat-like Asiatic pinched face to the black eyeliner to the horrible tattoo. And that vulgar tanning-bed skin color. Such people absolutely do not belong in publicity photos.

SupaTurk is no great beauty either, but he is a veritable supermodel in comparison to his repulsive tag-along to the right.

Kill it with fire.

[Il Principe]

And Armenid isn't so bad, it's closely related to Dinarid.
Armenoid is one of the worst racial types in the world.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Kompleksle alakası yok .Bunu nasıl ortaya koyduğumuza bağlı.

Biz İmparatorluk mirasçısı olarak üç kıtada da varız .Hem Balkanlı hem Akdenizli hem Ortadoğulu ve köken olarak da Asya .

Ortadoğunun kenarına sıkışmış kabileden bozma bir millet değiliz .

Sadece Ortadoğuluyum diyenler köken olarak Ortadoğulu olup o cografyadan dışarı çıkamayanlar.
Kendimizi onlarla bir tutmanın hiç anlamı yok.

[Su]

Kompleksle alakası yok .Bunu nasıl ortaya koyduğumuza bağlı.

Biz İmparatorluk mirasçısı olarak üç kıtada da varız .Hem Balkanlı hem Akdenizli hem Ortadoğulu ve köken olarak da Asya .

Ortadoğunun kenarına sıkışmış kabileden bozma bir millet değiliz .

Sadece Ortadoğuluyum diyenler köken olarak Ortadoğulu olup o cografyadan dışarı çıkamayanlar.
Kendimizi onlarla bir tutmanın hiç anlamı yok.

Hani sen anti-Osmanli degil miydin? Hani Osmanlilar senin atan degil ya? Ozaman Osmanlininda mirascisida olamazsin ki.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Ben kendim için konuşmuyorum zaten .
Bölgedeki pozisyonumuz açısından konuşuyorum.Seçeneğimiz birden fazlayken kompleksli görünmemek adına kendimizi Kürtlerle, Ermenilerle,İranlılarla vs bir tutup Ortadoğuya hapsetmemize gerek yok.İsteyen Akdenizli isteyen Balkanlı deme ehliyetine sahip.

[Su]

Ben kendim için konuşmuyorum zaten .
Bölgedeki pozisyonumuz açısından konuşuyorum.Seçeneğimiz birden fazlayken kompleksli görünmemek adına kendimizi Kürtlerle, Ermenilerle,İranlılarla vs bir tutup Ortadoğuya hapsetmemize gerek yok.İsteyen Akdenizli isteyen Balkanlı deme ehliyetine sahip.

Ok

[Arsen_]

Armenoid is one of the worst racial types in the world.

That's just a matter of personal taste. For you Armenoid may be one of the worst racial types in the world. Other person may see Swedish type as an ugliest in the world. That doesn't prove anything.
Our fellow Armenian from Sweden (he is citizen of Sweden) was a guest to us and he told us that in some regions of Sweden population is already on the verge of complete degeneration and even government is very concerned about those problems.

[d3cimat3d]

Armenoid is one of the worst racial types in the world.

Only because Armenoid is wrongfully linked with Jews, but really the original Jews were East-Med/Arabid.

[legolasbozo]

That's just a matter of personal taste. For you Armenoid may be one of the worst racial types in the world. Other person may see Swedish type as an ugliest in the world. That doesn't prove anything.
Our fellow Armenian from Sweden (he is citizen of Sweden) was a guest to us and he told us that in some regions of Sweden population is already on the verge of complete degeneration and even government is very concerned about those problems.

there is none to find a swedish type ugly, especially ugliest. Maybe people prefer asian, mediterranean types compare to swedish.

[fror]

Only because Armenoid is wrongfully linked with Jews, but really the original Jews were East-Med/Arabid.

Na I'd have to agree. Armenians look just like Arabs or Jews. They try to fool themselves into believing they are something else it seems. Looking like Arabs is the worst. They look so bad.

[Il Principe]

That's just a matter of personal taste.
Everything in the world is a matter of personal taste. All value judgements are subjective. In the end, it's impossible to perceive reality in an unbiased way. There is no single universal truth as to what is beautiful and what his ugly.


Other person may see Swedish type as an ugliest in the world. That doesn't prove anything.
You're very welcome to think Swedes are ugly, if that's what you believe. That could very well be true for you. I could not care less.

I still think Armenoids - with their swarthiness, grotesquely huge noses, pinched rodent features, and round skulls - are ugly.


Our fellow Armenian from Sweden (he is citizen of Sweden
Apparently, the supposed ugliness of Sweden isn't enough to stop him from migrating here and living off our society, in typical Armenoid fashion.

What is it with Armenoids and this love for migrating to other lands? Is it a culturally encouraged behavior? Or a genetic imperative that tells you guys to spread out like a plague from your epicenter in West Asia? I am honestly confused.


was a guest to us and he told us that in some regions of Sweden population is already on the verge of complete degeneration and even government is very concerned about those problems.
Yes, a degeneration that he was contributing to, with his presence in Sweden.

I'm not aware that the Swedish government was concerned at all, though. In fact, the official Swedish policy is that more immigration and more degeneracy is generally a good thing. That the government of Reinfeldt was even seeing those things as problems is complete news to me. I really cannot make sense of what you are saying.

Lastly, I have an idea - let's start a "Scandinavians vs. Armenians" thread, with a poll so each member can vote on which they think is best-looking.

[Il Principe]

double post.

[Arsen_]

You're very welcome to think Swedes are ugly, if that's what you believe. That could very well be true for you.

Sorry but it's not what I think or believe. It's what I see and feel. To tell the truth I can't imagine that northern type you have not only to be loved by anybody but even to be considered. To love that type for me is equal to love frozen meat and to kiss that type is equal to kiss dead pig. But unlike you I do not promote my personal tastes and views as an ultimate truth and keep them with me.




What is it with Armenoids and this love for migrating to other lands? Is it a culturally encouraged behavior? Or a genetic imperative that tells you guys to spread out like a plague from your epicenter in West Asia? I am honestly confused.

When first on Earth initial human civilization arose many thousands years ago on all the images of elite men on different stone monuments on the whole space of initial mankind you will not find even a single man which was not Armenoid. Outside that space they were no humans at all at that time, just half humans half animals. You should understand that the only important difference between for example modern Swedes and modern Bantuids is that ancestors of first ones were lucky enough to get precious sperm of migrating Armenoids and second ones were not that lucky.



Yes, a degeneration that he was contributing to, with his presence in Sweden.

Though he is a citizen of Sweden but he does not live in Sweden cos he is a servant of Armenian Church and was ordered to serve in another country.



I'm not aware that the Swedish government was concerned at all, though. In fact, the official Swedish policy is that more immigration and more degeneracy is generally a good thing. That the government of Reinfeldt was even seeing those things as problems is complete news to me. I really cannot make sense of what you are saying.

I do not understand it myself about degeneration but it was what exactly fellow Armenian told us and according to him there are certain special programs of your government to prevent the degeneration of native population. By the way that problem seem to be not only in Sweden. When there was a Eurovision Contest in Norway Armenian delegation after return to Armenia told about their impressions about Norway. And they told that there were many immigrants in Norway from countries like Pakistan etc and locals explained that Norwegian government was very seriously concerned of danger of genetic degeneration of local population that's why to prevent that possibility they imported immigrants to get some "fresh blood".



Lastly, I have an idea - let's start a "Scandinavians vs. Armenians" thread, with a poll so each member can vote on which they think is best-looking.

If you in that thread present pictures of best-looking Scandinavians and let Armenians to present best-looking of their own then it may make sense. But without pictures it would be biased.

[Austo]

Still the armenians are not such a plague like the Turks.

[Permafrost]

When first on Earth initial human civilization arose many thousands years ago on all the images of elite men on different stone monuments on the whole space of initial mankind you will not find even a single man which was not Armenoid. Outside that space they were no humans at all at that time, just half humans half animals. You should understand that the only important difference between for example modern Swedes and modern Bantuids is that ancestors of first ones were lucky enough to get precious sperm of migrating Armenoids and second ones were not that lucky.

Let us suppose (ad absurdum) this is true; what you fail to realize is that it makes your situation all the more tragic! So you supposedly had this "thousand of years" ascendancy on northern Europeans, ergo by now the Armenoid race should be colonizing the outer space! And yet that is not the case today, it's the polar opposite.

And what is this about lucky sperm lol? Ironic that you mention it, the only genetic trait you could pass on a population is your tendency toward rape. As you may already know, Armenians are not very popular among Russians these days...

http://tert.am/en/news/2012/09/20/grigoryan-sane/

[d3cimat3d]

Na I'd have to agree. Armenians look just like Arabs or Jews. They try to fool themselves into believing they are something else it seems. Looking like Arabs is the worst. They look so bad.

Armenians looks like their neighbors the Assyrians - completely normal people. I'm not Armenian but I personally think Armenian women are better looking than Swedish or Northern European women.

[Arsen_]

Let us suppose (ad absurdum) this is true; what you fail to realize is that it makes your situation all the more tragic! So you supposedly had this "thousand of years" ascendancy on northern Europeans, ergo by now the Armenoid race should be colonizing the outer space! And yet that is not the case today, it's the polar opposite.

That is all true till the last word. By the way there was a very interesting book published in Russia several years ago: Эрнст Мулдашев "От кого мы произошли?" Ernst Muldashev "From whom we come from?". (The author is not Armenian)

Just one quote:

Арменоидная раса по офтальмогеометрической схеме породила, кроме чистых европейцев (динарская, северная и альпийская расы), также и средиземноморскую расу.

Armenoid race on ophthalmologic-geometrical scheme generated, except pure Europeans (Dinaric, the Northern and Alpine race), also Mediterranean race.



And what is this about lucky sperm lol? Ironic that you mention it, the only genetic trait you could pass on a population is your tendency toward rape. As you may already know, Armenians are not very popular among Russians these days...

http://tert.am/en/news/2012/09/20/grigoryan-sane/

What are you talking about??? First of all that guy is not Armenian. His surname disorientated at first many people but after investigation it turned out he is not Armenian (actually he is from Moldova) and neither his name (Vadim) nor his real surname Grigoryanu (which was reduced to Grigoryan and sounds like Armenian)

Just let you know in Armenia one of the lowest rape rate in the world.

Here are some statistics for example.




http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

Rank Countries Amount Date
# 1 Lesotho: 0.844 per 1,000 people 2008
# 2 New Zealand: 0.315 per 1,000 people 2008
# 3 Belgium: 0.299 per 1,000 people 2008
# 4 Iceland: 0.286 per 1,000 people 2008
# 5 Norway: 0.203 per 1,000 people 2008
# 6 Israel: 0.166 per 1,000 people 2009
# 7 Finland: 0.141 per 1,000 people 2008
# 8 Chile: 0.12 per 1,000 people 2008
# 9 Mongolia: 0.118 per 1,000 people 2008
# 10 Ireland: 0.102 per 1,000 people 2008
# 11 Kazakhstan: 0.099 per 1,000 people 2008
# 12 Estonia: 0.093 per 1,000 people 2008
# 13 Luxembourg: 0.091 per 1,000 people 2008
# 14 Denmark: 0.09 per 1,000 people 2008
# 15 Germany: 0.089 per 1,000 people 2009
# 16 Argentina: 0.081 per 1,000 people 2008
# 17 Czech Republic: 0.062 per 1,000 people 2008
# 18 Mauritius: 0.06 per 1,000 people 2008
= 19 Lithuania: 0.056 per 1,000 people 2008
= 19 Kyrgyzstan: 0.056 per 1,000 people 2008
# 21 Moldova: 0.053 per 1,000 people 2008
# 22 Russia: 0.05 per 1,000 people 2008
# 23 Slovenia: 0.048 per 1,000 people 2008
= 24 Hungary: 0.047 per 1,000 people 2008
= 24 Romania: 0.047 per 1,000 people 2008
= 24 Poland: 0.047 per 1,000 people 2008
# 27 Latvia: 0.041 per 1,000 people 2008
# 28 Oman: 0.04 per 1,000 people 2008
# 29 Croatia: 0.036 per 1,000 people 2008
= 30 Belarus: 0.035 per 1,000 people 2008
= 30 Morocco: 0.035 per 1,000 people 2008
# 32 Slovakia: 0.033 per 1,000 people 2008
# 33 Bulgaria: 0.031 per 1,000 people 2008
= 34 Portugal: 0.029 per 1,000 people 2008
= 34 Bahrain: 0.029 per 1,000 people 2008
= 34 Liechtenstein: 0.029 per 1,000 people 2008
= 37 Malta: 0.025 per 1,000 people 2008
= 37 Philippines: 0.025 per 1,000 people 2008
= 39 Cameroon: 0.024 per 1,000 people 2008
= 39 Cyprus: 0.024 per 1,000 people 2008
# 41 Sierra Leone: 0.021 per 1,000 people 2008
# 42 Greece: 0.02 per 1,000 people 2008
# 43 Kenya: 0.019 per 1,000 people 2009
# 44 Canada: 0.016 per 1,000 people 2008
# 45 Japan: 0.014 per 1,000 people 2008
# 46 Maldives: 0.013 per 1,000 people 2008
# 47 Guinea: 0.009 per 1,000 people 2008
# 48 Azerbaijan: 0.004 per 1,000 people 2008
# 49 Armenia: 0.003 per 1,000 people 2008
# 50 Egypt: 0.001 per 1,000 people 2008
Weighted average: 0.1 per 1,000 people

DEFINITION: Number of sexual assaults recorded by police in that country per 100,000 population. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.

[Arsen_]

In addition to last post: by the way recently an American female writer, artist, and anthropologist Dana Walrath visited Armenia and wrote in her blog: "Over one million people live in Yerevan and yet I feel safe here... I can walk alone through dark parks and alleys at night, to get where I need to go, in safety. How can we return to this level of safety?"

[Hoca]

Armenians in America:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/13/armenian-gangs-medicare-s_n_761988.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx0369Zse80

And Armenians are complaining about Kim Kardasian damaging Armenian public image x)

[Chocolate_Hound]

Depends on which "Turks" you are comparing them to, they are not a monolith, I'd say non-Kurdish Turks are pretty fair compared to other MENA.