Non- Europeans with higher blonde hair and red hair genes

[ButlerKing]

You have some Non-Europeans with higher blonde hair, red hair, light eyes than Portugal, Greece, South Italy, South Spain however at the same time all these europeans cluster with Europeans while the non-Europeans have cluster with near eastern DNA or West Asian DNA. Also the Kabily bebers and Kurds subtribe from Iran have same frequencies of light hair and light eyes as the Balkans but they have highest west Asian and Sub-Saharan genes. And Udmurts are part Mongoloid but have highest percent of red hair

Could this mean blonde and red hair, light eyes are not necessarily associated with European genes?

Berbers of Kabyle
Kurdish sub tribe from Iran
Jordanian sub tribe from Jordan
Udmurts
Tunisian Berbers

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png


Or could these be are what albino caucasoids look like? afterall a albino Dravidian can look like a European too.

The Berbers of Kabyle they also have 5-15% Sub-Saharan blood.

http://www.grenswetenschap.nl/images/artikelfoto/berbers.jpg
http://matoub.kabylie.free.fr/images/fille-kabyle-4.jpg


Kurdish sub-tribe from Iran, Kurdish are very west Asian people.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4099/4815200744_5b82051e64_z.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-o3BG9orOSZk/UIHKbOAovuI/AAAAAAAAMp4/gogT3AaWqfg/s640/kurdish-people-kurds-womens-men-children-girl-kurdistan-aryan-race-zagros.jpg

Udmurts from Western Siberia, highest percentage of red hair but have 35.1% Mongoloid blood.

http://eng.olgaalex.ru/img/1041109/1041111.jpg
http://russianpickle.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/udmurt_people_red.jpg

[Fire Haired]

Non of these people's European looks are suprsing. The Kablye are known for having pale skin overall light hair colors are extremely rare but they do exist i read some groups of kablye have 18% blonde hair. There is no doubt at some point thousands of years ago they inter married with a very light haired group of Europeans who also had some red hair it is really hard to say who and when. The Kurdish speak a Indo Iranian language which is in the INdo European family. Indo European languages probably started in the north mid east or in the Caucus then spread to Russia Ukriane area which is were they took off. From what we know all Indo European languages spread out of Russia and Ukriane from people who were mainly European aka they were white. 6,000 and 5,000 year old DNA samples from Early Indo European Yamna culture in south Ukriane and Russia showed they had pale skin like modern Europeans and dark eyes. 3,800-3,400ybp DNA from early Indo Iranain Adronovo culture in Siberia showed they had mainly blonde hair and light eyes Y DNA R1a1a and all west eurasin mtDNA haplogroups except some had Mongliod and one had Mongliod Y DNa C.

So When Indo Iranians spread all over asia from 5,000-3,500ybp inclduing Iran-Afghanistan area were they mixed alot culturally and breed alot with the people there. They were absorbed into the dark skinned people very quickly in that area but that does not mean European features just died out it still pops up today. According to everytype of aust dna test i have looked at including globe13 there is a little trace of European blood in all Indo Iranians speakers that does not exist in their non INdo Iranian neighbors like Assyrians and Dravidian. Just like their is a trace in the K12b test of west Asian Gedorsian in R1b L11-L51 Germanic Italo Celtic speakers in western Europe because Indo European languages probably orignalley came from northern mid east and R1b L51 father R1b l23 is centered around that area. Same reason why there is a trace of Mongliod blood in all kinds of aust dna tests in Turkey because Turkic languages orignalley come from eastern Asia.

[Thrax]

Melanesian children

http://thefabweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/blonde-hair-solomon-islands.jpg

[Fire Haired]

all of these people get their light hair and eyes from their European blood. Also the distrubtation of red hair is completely unrelated do the distributions of blonde hair they are not connected at all. They formed in two different people groups 10,000's of years ago then eventually mixed. Since blonde hair is less dominate than dark hair colors when proto Germanic speakers mixed with south Scandinavians red hair had a better chance to survive then when Celts mixed with dark haired Iberians.

[Peikko]

The blond hair was in Europe before Indo-European languages.

[Fire Haired]

Melanesian children

http://thefabweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/blonde-hair-solomon-islands.jpg

The genes they have for blonde hair is completly unrelated to European blonde hair. click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond)

[Thrax]

The genes they have for blonde hair is completly unrelated to European blonde hair. click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond)

Yes, but still they are blond.

[Fire Haired]

The blond hair was in Europe before Indo-European languages.

Of course it was look at Finnish they are Uralic and have been for over 7,000 years and have over 50% blonde hair. Indo European languages probably started with dark haired people in the north mid east or around southern Russia and Ukraine. Then random ethnic groups around Russia and Ukriane hwo probably had very different ancestry became indo European speakers and got Y DNa haplogroups from like R1b L23 and R1a1a1 m417.

[Fire Haired]

Yes, but still they are blond.

but i think this thread is about the type Europeans have this is unrelated.

[Thrax]

but i think this thread is about the type Europeans have this is unrelated.


Where does it say that? I think the thread tries to prove that blond hair isn't necessarily related to european genes

[Peikko]

Actually light hair in Finland is probably 80% at least. Most people just get darker with age. Some kids:
http://www.jokerit.com/junnut/0304/kuvat/E-93_iso.jpg

[Fire Haired]

Actually light hair in Finland is probably 80% at least. Most people just get darker with age. Some kids:
http://www.jokerit.com/junnut/0304/kuvat/E-93_iso.jpg

Probably true hair color my moms side out of 24 people 8 red, 9 blonde later brown, 4 blonde, 3 brown. It is very common for someone to have blonde hair as a little kid then it later turns brown. when u see all white preschools it seems like they all have blonde hair then u see 8th graders from the same school and they have almost all brown hair.

light brown hair is probably a combination of brown and blonde hair and it is common. I dont know how the genes work but blonde hair might just be a lighter version of brown hair. Unlike red hair which is its own thing.

[Insuperable]

The genes they have for blonde hair is completly unrelated to European blonde hair. click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond)

Yes, but surprisingly (or not) they show some ancient western eurasian genetic influence as shown by Dienekes. I know that their mutation is different, but Europeans also have not one mutation for light hair, but several independent mutation so...

[Fire Haired]

Yes, but surprisingly (or not) they show some ancient western eurasian genetic influence as shown by Dienekes. I know that their mutation is different, but Europeans also have not one mutation for light hair, but several independent mutation so...

I see what u are saying but they should have white skin just like europeans too. Blonde's are a little paler blonde hair has less pigmentation than brown and brown less than black and red less than blonde. So if they have blonde hair from teh same source as Europeans why do they have black skin.

[Insuperable]

I see what u are saying but they should have white skin just like europeans too. Blonde's are a little paler blonde hair has less pigmentation than brown and brown less than black and red less than blonde. So if they have blonde hair from teh same source as Europeans why do they have black skin.

Did I say they have "some" west Eurasian ancestry or that they are fully west Eurasian? They show like 20% of west Eurasian ancestry. So it is not strange for them not having white skin.

BTW to clarrify
On K3 calculators (where 3 stands for subsaharan african, east asian and western eurasian). They suprisingly show up to 20% of western eurasian influence out of all far eastern people. On higher Ks Melaneasian component appears.

[Pleurat]

Blonde hair is actually very common among albanian children, from golden to dark blonde, but I want to understand something..... the ones who are blonder aee the north albos who have only 5% slavic genetics and are much more neolithic or mesolithic ( it depends) since they have 50% Ev-13 while tosks who have more slavic influence have less blondes, much less sometimes....

For example:





http://www.ocmc.org/images/articles/hires/Gabriela%20discusses%20the%20content%20of%20one%20 of%20the%20dramas%20with%20children%20of%20the%20c amp%20in%20Malisheva.jpg



http://gdb.rferl.org/FC608EFC-96D6-43F1-B564-BA2E4713F53F_w974_n_s.jpg



http://iccidd.server295.com/media/IDD%20Newsletter/1991-2006/images/v22n1_0206_img_3.jpg



http://www.muslimblog.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/from-Albanian-Muslim-children-10.jpg



These are all northern albanian children, highlanders with almost 0% slavic influence.....


How do you explain this?

[Krampus]

Of course it was look at Finnish they are Uralic and have been for over 7,000 years and have over 50% blonde hair. Indo European languages probably started with dark haired people in the north mid east or around southern Russia and Ukraine. Then random ethnic groups around Russia and Ukriane hwo probably had very different ancestry became indo European speakers and got Y DNa haplogroups from like R1b L23 and R1a1a1 m417.

I thought they have like 89% Blonde hair or was that light eyes?

[Insuperable]

^Tosks don't have more Slavic blood, but are more neolithic. If you think that they have more Slavic blood because of I2 then Albos should be Negroid because of EV-13. It is just that tosks are autosomally closer to Greeks.

[Pleurat]

^Tosks don't have more Slavic blood, but are more neolithic. If you think that they have more Slavic blood because of I2 then Albos should be Negroid because of EV-13. It is just that tosks are autosomally closer to Greeks.

I2 in tosks together with R1a must be slavic...... R1a with I2 in ghegs is note more than 7%...... Ev-13 did either come in Balkan 10,000 years ago or it was created there... it is also believed to have originated in anatolia...

[Fire Haired]

Blonde hair is actually very common among albanian children, from golden to dark blonde, but I want to understand something..... the ones who are blonder aee the north albos who have only 5% slavic genetics and are much more neolithic or mesolithic ( it depends) since they have 50% Ev-13 while tosks who have more slavic influence have less blondes, much less sometimes....

For example:


http://www.ocmc.org/images/articles/hires/Gabriela%20discusses%20the%20content%20of%20one%20 of%20the%20dramas%20with%20children%20of%20the%20c amp%20in%20Malisheva%20%202.JPG


http://www.ocmc.org/images/articles/hires/Gabriela%20discusses%20the%20content%20of%20one%20 of%20the%20dramas%20with%20children%20of%20the%20c amp%20in%20Malisheva.jpg



http://gdb.rferl.org/FC608EFC-96D6-43F1-B564-BA2E4713F53F_w974_n_s.jpg



http://iccidd.server295.com/media/IDD%20Newsletter/1991-2006/images/v22n1_0206_img_3.jpg



http://www.muslimblog.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/from-Albanian-Muslim-children-10.jpg



These are all northern albanian children, highlanders with almost 0% slavic influence.....


How do you explain this?

U are just saying these ones have no slavic blood u are not giving DNA names like aust dna, y dna, mtdna. Slavic is just a language there is no such thing as the slavic race. They are a mix of proto Balto SLavic speakers who brought R1a1a1b2 Z283 and the native Neloithic people in eastern Europe. Yugoslaviens even though they speak a Slavic language have much higher amounts of dark hair and eyes their aust dna results are alot different from polish and Russian and they have very little r1a1a1ab2 Z283.

E V13 was deifntley in Neolithic Europe sine we have a 7,000 year old e v13 sample in Spain. and because it is kind of a European subclade of E1b1b. I dont know if it would have come in the Mesolithic. Originally the E v13 people would be all dark haired mid easterns it did not originate in Europe. If it is true blonde hair is very popular in little Albanian kids i dont know what to say probably from Mesolithic-Paleolithic people but did they live in Albania or did their blood come from a later migration to Albania.

[Fire Haired]

I2 in tosks together with R1a must be slavic...... R1a with I2 in ghegs is note more than 7%...... Ev-13 did either come in Balkan 10,000 years ago or it was created there... it is also believed to have originated in anatolia...

When u say I2 for eastern europe just about all is I2a1b. It is pre Slavic and when u say R1a just about all is Balto Slavic branch R1a1a1b2. I2a1b does not have a Slavic origin and i really really really doubt has any connection with Slavic migrations.

[Insuperable]

I2 in tosks together with R1a must be slavic...... R1a with I2 in ghegs is note more than 7%...... Ev-13 did either come in Balkan 10,000 years ago or it was created there... it is also believed to have originated in anatolia...

And that is not important even if they have it over 50% since Albanians and maybe especially Tosks are autosomally closer to Greeks than Kosovars.

[Pleurat]

And that is not important even if they have it over 50% since Albanians and maybe especially Tosks are autosomally closer to Greeks than Kosovars.

The samples of the autosomal DNA were taken all over albania and o a lot of samples are not ethnic albanian, so it is not a good example..... of course that northern albanians of albania are closer to kosovars.

[Pleurat]

When u say I2 for eastern europe just about all is I2a1b. It is pre Slavic and when u say R1a just about all is Balto Slavic branch R1a1a1b2. I2a1b does not have a Slavic origin and i really really really doubt has any connection with Slavic migrations.

I2a2 is south slavs that peaks in Bosnia came in Balkan with slavic invasions, it was created 2,500 years ago in Ukraine. Solin can explain you more about this issue.

[Pleurat]

U are just saying these ones have no slavic blood u are not giving DNA names like aust dna, y dna, mtdna. Slavic is just a language there is no such thing as the slavic race. They are a mix of proto Balto SLavic speakers who brought R1a1a1b2 Z283 and the native Neloithic people in eastern Europe. Yugoslaviens even though they speak a Slavic language have much higher amounts of dark hair and eyes their aust dna results are alot different from polish and Russian and they have very little r1a1a1ab2 Z283.

E V13 was deifntley in Neolithic Europe sine we have a 7,000 year old e v13 sample in Spain. and because it is kind of a European subclade of E1b1b. I dont know if it would have come in the Mesolithic. Originally the E v13 people would be all dark haired mid easterns it did not originate in Europe. If it is true blonde hair is very popular in little Albanian kids i dont know what to say probably from Mesolithic-Paleolithic people but did they live in Albania or did their blood come from a later migration to Albania.


So according to you the original Ev-13 people were all dark haired?

[Insuperable]

The samples of the autosomal DNA were taken all over albania and o a lot of samples are not ethnic albanian, so it is not a good example.....

Blah blah blah not ethnic xxx samples blah blah blah


of course that northern albanians of albania are closer to kosovars

Well there you go. If Tosks are less blond it is because they are more neolithic in origin than Kosovars who are genetically somewhat more northern and not because they have I2 or R1a whose carriers were northern Europeans.

[Pleurat]

Blah blah blah not ethnic xxx samples blah blah blah



Well there you go. If Tosks are less blond it is because they are more neolithic in origin than Kosovars who are genetically somewhat more northern and not because they have I2 or R1a whose carriers were northern Europeans.


How are they more northern genetically when they have more neolithic DNA?

[Insuperable]

How are they more northern genetically when they have more neolithic DNA?

And what do you assume by DNA here? EV-13? :bored:

[Fire Haired]

So according to you the original Ev-13 people were all dark haired?

yes y dna E period was orignally in black skinned sub sharen africans. there is a whole another branch e1a which is very popular in sub shara africa and all eurasian and north african e1b orignated around ethopia. The E1b1b V13 orignalley came from the mid east they would have been probably only dark haired.

[Fire Haired]

I2a2 is south slavs that peaks in Bosnia came in Balkan with slavic invasions, it was created 2,500 years ago in Ukraine. Solin can explain you more about this issue.

map of I2a2 former I2b
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

I dont know why u said 2,500yb when there are 11 3,000 year old I2a2b samples from Germany. It is probably pre Neolithic Eupedia said some estimates are 13,000 years old.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml#I2a2

[Pleurat]

yes y dna E period was orignally in black skinned sub sharen africans. there is a whole another branch e1a which is very popular in sub shara africa and all eurasian and north african e1b orignated around ethopia. The E1b1b V13 orignalley came from the mid east they would have been probably only dark haired.

The problem is that Ev-13 is found almost only in Balkan and a little bit in other parts of europe.... But I agree with you.

[Pleurat]

map of I2a2 former I2b
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif

I dont know why u said 2,500yb when there are 11 3,000 year old I2a2b samples from Germany. It is probably pre Neolithic Eupedia said some estimates are 13,000 years old.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml#I2a2


I was refering specifically to the I2a2 of south slavs, not the germanic one.

[Fire Haired]

The problem is that Ev-13 is found almost only in Balkan and a little bit in other parts of europe.... But I agree with you.

I dont know how true that is

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
—Cruciani et al. (2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68#CITEREFCrucianiLa_FrattaTrombettaSantolamazza2 007))

map of e1b in europe
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg

I dont know but i think it is the main E1b subclade in Europe.

[Pleurat]

I dont know how true that is


map of e1b in europe
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg

I dont know but i think it is the main E1b subclade in Europe.

European Ev-13:


http://hamitic.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/ev13-senatorial.jpg

[Fire Haired]

I was refering specifically to the I2a2 of south slavs, not the germanic one.

what subclade are u talking about on eupedia i2 page it never mentions specifically eastern europe or slavic subclade.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

[Fire Haired]

European Ev-13:


http://hamitic.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/ev13-senatorial.jpg

okay but wikpedia seems to only use old sources like 2008. I know this is probably mainly liget but some of their other maps were obvisouly unaccurate i dont completly trust what they show. i would not be suprised though if this is how it is distrubted. Also it ends at over 5% so that does no mean it does not exist in the other areas

[Pleurat]

what subclade are u talking about on eupedia i2 page it never mentions specifically eastern europe or slavic subclade.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml



Genetically, on the Y chromosome line, a majority (>85%) of Croats belong to one of the three major European Y-DNA haplogroups - Haplogroup I (45%), Haplogroup R1a (27%) and Haplogroup R1b (13%).[34] Later neolithic lineages which originated in the Middle East and brought agriculture to Europe, are present in low numbers. The haplogroups J, E and T constitute together about 13% - significantly lower than other populations in the region.[34]
Haplogroup I among Croatians is divided in two major subdivisions[34] - I2a1 (33%), typical for the populations of eastern Adriatic and the Balkans, and I1 (9%), typical for north-western Europeans. Haplogroup I is believed to have weathered the last glacial maximum in the western Balkans, migrating north as the ice sheets retreated. In 2010 Ken Nordtvedt argued that I2a1b1 is too young not to have been a result of a sudden expansion.[35] According to him I2a1b1 arose not earlier than 2500 years ago in Eastern Europe. He has presumed this to be a consequence from the Slavic invasion of the Balkans, from the area north-east of the Carpathians since 500 CE.[36] In 2011 Nordtvedt has confirmed I2a1b1 is not older than 2,800 years.[37] In his last comments about Haplogroup I tree and the conjectured spread map, he locates the start of the I2a1b1 lineage around the middle course of the Vistula.[38]

[Fire Haired]

R1a in Europe is about 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999% R1a1a1 M417 which spreadwith Indo European languages in the bronze age just 6,000-5,000ybp. European r1b is almost 100% under R1b L23 which began probably in the Neloithic or Bronze age.. Germanic Italo Celtic R1b l51-L11 takes up almost 50% of western European paternal lineages it spread starting at the earliest 5,000ybp click (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89535-R1b-L51-L11-Germanic-Italo-Celts-Rulers-and-conqueres-of-Bronze-Iron-age-west-Europe) here for more info. All R1b and R1a pretty much in Europe came at the very very very late neloithic or bronze age. R1a1a1 actulley orignated in Ukriane and R1a would have been in some Europeans in the Mesolithic age but the vast majority spread in the bronze age.

The only for sure Y DNa to have been in Europe before farming is hg I. Out of 31 Neolithic western European Y DNA samples dating anywhere from 7,000 and 4,725ybp 24 had G2a, 4 had i2a1a, one had E V13, two had either F or one of its descendants. G2a was probably the dominate y dna haplogroup of farmers who spread acroos Europe starting around Antolia and Greece 9,000ybp. E1b V13 was also very popular and then there was deifntley some J1 and J2. I have oticed age estimates are uselly way to young like mtDNA V was predicted to be 9,000 years old then they find two 12,000 year old V samples plus they were in Morocco and they predicted H1,H3, V, and U5b1 spread to moorco from Spain just 9,000ybp.

Alot of the time i have noticed the guys who test the DNA are horrible at creating theories of were it came from and how it spread. They always make up the most boring recent stuff they can and dont understand the other types of dna and that y dna does not tell the full story. and dont consider how a y dna haplogroup would spread and how it is impossible for i2a1b1 if it is so popular to be only 2,500 years old. the Hg I1 in Albania i doubt is 9% maybe in one study were they tested 100 people. I1 in Albania most likely is from Germanic migrations out of central Europe and Scandinavia.

[Peikko]

We don't know if I1 and I2 people looked the same.

What we do know, is that Northern Europe has higher frequency of I1, because the neolithic migrations had a smaller effect on more isolated regions like Fenno-Scandinavia. We also know that blond hair peaks at these regions.

Furthermore, there was a genetic study, which shows that neolithic farmers were genetically very mediterranean. I would be willing to bet, that they had darker pigmentation as well. Modern day north euros are also more mediterranean than neolithic hunter-gatherers, due to mixing.

My theory is, that neolithic hunter-gatherers of Northern Europe were predominantly blond and carried mainly I1.

[glass]

Blonde hair is actually very common among albanian children, from golden to dark blonde, but I want to understand something..... the ones who are blonder aee the north albos who have only 5% slavic genetics and are much more neolithic or mesolithic ( it depends) since they have 50% Ev-13 while tosks who have more slavic influence have less blondes, much less sometimes....

For example:
http://www.ocmc.org/images/articles/hires/Gabriela%20discusses%20the%20content%20of%20one%20 of%20the%20dramas%20with%20children%20of%20the%20c amp%20in%20Malisheva%20%202.JPG

not single blond here, may be in albania blond is everything that isnot black but only in albania
feel free to look at mrknowall picture to see what blond is
when those kids grow they will look typical turkish leftover

[Trun]

Y-DNA has nothing to do with phenotype. I don't know why people keep using it when speaking about blond hair.

Tosks cluster souther than Kosovo Albos.

[Peikko]

Y-DNA has nothing to do with phenotype. I don't know why people keep using it when speaking about blond hair.

Tosks cluster souther than Kosovo Albos.

No one is talking about phenotypes.

[Anglojew]

Since blondes mainly exist, outside of Europe, in isolated/mountainous regions such as the habitat of Kalash or Berbers my guess is Blondes were once more common but pushed to isolated areas due to migrations and/or only remain "pure" enough to exhibit these characteristics in these areas due to the same reason.

[Pleurat]

not single blond here, may be in albania blond is everything that isnot black but only in albania
feel free to look at mrknowall picture to see what blond is
when those kids grow they will look typical turkish leftover

Russian mongrel all these kids are blonder and whiter than you, it is becoming dark there and the light has affected the picture, because it is the same photo as the 2nd one. Blond is everything from very golden ( or evan white hair) to dark blonde.


You are a russian mongrel and I buy your women for 5 dollars.

[Fire Haired]

Since blondes mainly exist, outside of Europe, in isolated/mountainous regions such as the habitat of Kalash or Berbers my guess is Blondes were once more common but pushed to isolated areas due to migrations and/or only remain "pure" enough to exhibit these characteristics in these areas due to the same reason.

wait what blonde hair is almost only in Europe. Sure Kalash have some blonde hair not a suprise they are Indo Iranian speakers. 3,800-3,400ybp DNA samples from very early Indo Iranian adronovo culture in Siberia 2 out of 4 had blonde hair it was the main hair color of hthe people who spread Indo Iranian languages. DNA from Sycthians is the same story Y DNA R1a1a(probably Indo Iranian R1a1a1b2 Z93), same mtDNa haplogroups as other iNdo Iranian samples in central asia, and mainly blonde hair and light eyes. the Berbers dont have that many blondes at all sure the Kablye and Riffen have like 1% does not mean anything. Kablye are also known for pale skin obviously they have European blood.

[Fire Haired]

We don't know if I1 and I2 people looked the same.

What we do know, is that Northern Europe has higher frequency of I1, because the neolithic migrations had a smaller effect on more isolated regions like Fenno-Scandinavia. We also know that blond hair peaks at these regions.

Furthermore, there was a genetic study, which shows that neolithic farmers were genetically very mediterranean. I would be willing to bet, that they had darker pigmentation as well. Modern day north euros are also more mediterranean than neolithic hunter-gatherers, due to mixing.

My theory is, that neolithic hunter-gatherers of Northern Europe were predominantly blond and carried mainly I1.

Who were the I2 people. western Europeans with I2a1a 10,000ybp were separate from central Europeans with i2a2 and eastern Europeans with I2a1b. In the globe13 test the Paleolithic European group is called north euro(group that dominated 7,000ybp hunter gather in Spain) i saw how it is distributed very similar to blonde hair. I defintley think blonde hair was popular in pre Neolithic Europe over 10,000ybp. Many diff aust dna tests call the group they say is unique to Europe and is Paleolithic Atlantic Baltic, north east euro, or north euro. All are most popular in basically the same areas as blonde hair is most popular around the Baltic sea and central-northern-eastern Europe.

I think I1a was the first people to settler Scandalize 11,000ybp but maybe not and who ever brought I1 defintley was mainly blonde haired like modern Baltic and Scandinavian people. I dont know if y can say i1 is most popular in north Europe. Sure Scandinavia but that is pretty much all it is not that popular around the Baltic sea and it could be from Scandinavian inter marriage.

In these diff aust dna tests the group most call med was dominte in Otzie the ice man 5,300ybp farmer in Alps Italy and Gok4 5,000ybp farmer in south swedan. It deifntley shows huge connections with the farmers that spread acroos Europe and all the diff info i have read about origins of aust dna groups say it spread acroos Europe in Neolithic. Those farmers defintley would have been darker pigmented mainly because they did not orignalley come from Europe.

[Peikko]

wait what blonde hair is almost only in Europe. Sure Kalash have some blonde hair not a suprise they are Indo Iranian speakers. 3,800-3,400ybp DNA samples from very early Indo Iranian adronovo culture in Siberia 2 out of 4 had blonde hair it was the main hair color of hthe people who spread Indo Iranian languages. DNA from Sycthians is the same story Y DNA R1a1a(probably Indo Iranian R1a1a1b2 Z93), same mtDNa haplogroups as other iNdo Iranian samples in central asia, and mainly blonde hair and light eyes. the Berbers dont have that many blondes at all sure the Kablye and Riffen have like 1% does not mean anything. Kablye are also known for pale skin obviously they have European blood.
Where do you suppose the Indo-Iranian speakers got their blond hair? Did they mix with white people?

[Damião de Góis]

You have some Non-Europeans with higher blonde hair, red hair, light eyes than Portugal, Greece, South Italy, South Spain however at the same time all these europeans cluster with Europeans while the non-Europeans have cluster with near eastern DNA or West Asian DNA. Also the Kabily bebers and Kurds subtribe from Iran have same frequencies of light hair and light eyes as the Balkans but they have highest west Asian and Sub-Saharan genes. And Udmurts are part Mongoloid but have highest percent of red hair

Could this mean blonde and red hair, light eyes are not necessarily associated with European genes?

Berbers of Kabyle
Kurdish sub tribe from Iran
Jordanian sub tribe from Jordan
Udmurts
Tunisian Berbers


From those, maybe that's true for Udmurts but they live west of the Urals in any case. For the rest of your list, i don't think so.