Slovene DNA Results

Hello, I’ve made this account a while back only to read some interesting threads but never actually commented or posted anything. The following may be more suitable for the 23andMe sub-forum to which I don’t have access, but I don’t mind posting this here if it’s alright. So, to get to the point:

Recently, some of my relatives (a parent and two grandparents) took the DNA test by 23andMe (mine is still in the process), and I’m surprised by the ethnicity estimates. The reason for this is a pretty well-researched family tree, based on which all of my known ancestors (8 generations back) were born in what is today Slovenia. 23andMe places Slovenia into the Eastern European region; therefore, I, naturally, expected that to be the prevailing region. In reality, it varies from 65% to 79%. It’s not a small amount, but if I take my family tree into account, it’s lower than expected. The other regions that appear in the estimates are French & German (10–27%) and Greek & Balkan (2–8%). I do have some unknown ancestors in my family tree, but even if I consider them being something different from Eastern European, it still doesn’t align.
I’ve looked at some posted results of other Slovenes online, and they actually weren’t so much different regarding the estimates. Is it maybe just that 23andMe has a certain reference population for Slovenia, which results in this kind of estimates? Does the geographical location of Slovenia being a small country at the crossroads of certain regions make creating estimates more difficult? Probably the main reason for me to begin being somewhat uncertain about the results (and to a lesser extent my family tree) was my friend getting the results. They showed 0% for both French & German and Greek & Balkan, which I — until then — though was common for all Slovenes to get in their report.

If anyone would be willing to help me get more sense of the results, I’d be extremely grateful!

I'd suggest uploading your raw data to GEDmatch. It's free.
Results there are more easy to interpret and compare.

Hello

23andme uses Eastern European as a reference to genetic results ranging from Slovak/Ukrainian-like, to Estonian and North Russian-like

Anything more Southern or Western that gets you additional results

French & German in the case of Slovenia reflects your common history with Austria

Greek & Balkan reflects your common history with Balkans

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russki

Hello

23andme uses Eastern European as a reference to genetic results ranging from Slovak/Ukrainian-like, to Estonian and North Russian-like

Anything more Southern or Western that gets you additional results

French & German in the case of Slovenia reflects your common history with Austria

Greek & Balkan reflects your common history with Balkans

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This is exactly why I’m so surprised by my friend’s results. Only one parent is Slovene, but there is no French & German and Greek & Balkan regions in the estimate of the said friend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alenka

I'd suggest uploading your raw data to GEDmatch. It's free.
Results there are more easy to interpret and compare.

---

I’ve been thinking about it, and it may be worth a shot. I’m unexperienced with the site, but I hope there is a useful calculator to help me get more insight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

This is exactly why I’m so surprised by my friend’s results. Only one parent is Slovene, but there is no French & German and Greek & Balkan regions in the estimate of the said friend.

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If your friend doesn't have ancestry from countries like Slovakia or Poland, he might be an outlier for Slovenes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russki

If your friend doesn't have ancestry from countries like Slovakia or Poland, he might be an outlier for Slovenes

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23andme is sometimes BS. Let's see his gedmatch. I've seen a hungarian individual who scored little or no "french&german" at all on 23andme but then on gedmatch he turned out to have high north atlantic (higher than hungarian avarage). Benyzero on the other hand scored like 40% french-german on 23andme but his north atlantic score is avarage hungarian on k13 and overall his gedmatch is not as western shifted as his 23andme indicates.. In my experience 23andme result doesn't necessarily correlate with gedmatch result.

I’ve uploaded to GEDmatch. Which tools should I use? I’m new to the site, so please bear with me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

I’ve uploaded to GEDmatch. Which tools should I use? I’m new to the site, so please bear with me.

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If you can copy & paste your full list of component values for the Eurogenes K13 and K15 calculators (i.e. North_Atlantic 31.05%, Baltic, 32.77%,..), then myself and others can help you analyze your ancestry further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.G

If you can copy & paste your full list of component values for the Eurogenes K13 and K15 calculators (i.e. North_Atlantic 31.05%, Baltic, 32.77%,..), then myself and others can help you analyze your ancestry further.

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I’ll do this right now. But just to make sure before I do it, I leave the default option Admixture Proportions (With link to Oracle) selected and K15 is the same as Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15?

PARENT

K13

1 North_Atlantic 33.61
2 Baltic 30.97
3 West_Med 16.55
4 West_Asian 8.77
5 East_Med 8.67
6 Siberian 0.58
7 Northeast_African 0.57
8 Red_Sea 0.15
9 East_Asian 0.14

1 Austrian 4.3
2 Hungarian 4.38
3 East_German 5.14
4 Croatian 7.7
5 Moldavian 8.92
6 Serbian 9.16
7 West_German 11.54
8 South_Polish 11.68
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.5
10 South_Dutch 12.68
11 Romanian 13.06
12 Ukrainian 13.48
13 North_German 14.11
14 French 15.2
15 Polish 15.25
16 Bulgarian 15.86
17 North_Swedish 15.94
18 Swedish 16.18
19 Danish 16.65
20 North_Dutch 16.84



K15

1 North_Sea 29.77
2 Baltic 19.26
3 Atlantic 15.07
4 West_Med 13.18
5 Eastern_Euro 9.48
6 West_Asian 6.89
7 East_Med 5.8
8 Northeast_African 0.56

1 Hungarian 7.13
2 East_German 8.2
3 West_German 10.75
4 Moldavian 11.54
5 Austrian 11.79
6 Croatian 11.86
7 Serbian 12.23
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.98
9 South_Dutch 13.09
10 Ukrainian 13.75
11 South_Polish 13.9
12 North_German 14.07
13 Swedish 14.21
14 French 14.4
15 North_Swedish 14.55
16 Romanian 14.81
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.92
18 Norwegian 15.08
19 North_Dutch 15.56
20 Finnish 15.7

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Universe

23andme is sometimes BS. Let's see his gedmatch. I've seen a hungarian individual who scored little or no "french&german" at all on 23andme but then on gedmatch he turned out to have high north atlantic (higher than hungarian avarage). Benyzero on the other hand scored like 40% french-german on 23andme but his north atlantic score is avarage hungarian on k13 and overall his gedmatch is not as western shifted as his 23andme indicates.. In my experience 23andme result doesn't necessarily correlate with gedmatch result.

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Your comment got me thinking that maybe sometimes we have to look elsewhere for German admixture. I took a look and on K13 Beny has 16.99% West Med (higher than average), and 4.66% West Asian (lower than average). We know that South Germans can have high West Med, and West Germans and also NW Germans can have low West Asian, like Beny. So maybe this is how his German admixture has affected his values, due to recombination? Not to say 23andMe is perfect, it ain't, and I suspect that Beny's 37% NW European on 23andMe is too high still.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

I’ll do this right now. But just to make sure before I do it, I leave the default option Admixture Proportions (With link to Oracle) selected and K15 is the same as Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15?

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Yes sir, that's correct.

GRANDPARENT 1

K13

1 North_Atlantic 32.59
2 Baltic 32.48
3 West_Med 16.47
4 East_Med 9.8
5 West_Asian 8.11
6 Northeast_African 0.41
7 Oceanian 0.15

1 Hungarian 4
2 Austrian 5.43
3 East_German 5.83
4 Croatian 6.24
5 Moldavian 7.89
6 Serbian 8.74
7 South_Polish 10.55
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.37
9 Ukrainian 12.24
10 Romanian 12.8
11 West_German 13.04
12 Polish 14.18
13 South_Dutch 14.24
14 North_German 15.4
15 Bulgarian 15.44
16 North_Swedish 16.46
17 French 16.58
18 Southwest_Russian 16.62
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.86
20 Swedish 17.21



K15

1 North_Sea 27.63
2 Baltic 21.82
3 Atlantic 14.66
4 West_Med 11.91
5 Eastern_Euro 11.05
6 East_Med 7.56
7 West_Asian 5.37
8 Northeast_African 0.01

1 Hungarian 5.15
2 East_German 8.41
3 Moldavian 9.32
4 Croatian 9.37
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.09
6 Austrian 10.57
7 Ukrainian 10.87
8 South_Polish 11.15
9 Serbian 11.2
10 West_German 13.28
11 Polish 13.66
12 Romanian 13.82
13 Southwest_Finnish 14.02
14 Finnish 14.44
15 South_Dutch 14.98
16 North_Swedish 15.29
17 North_German 15.59
18 Swedish 15.76
19 Russian_Smolensk 16.12
20 Estonian 16.46

GRANDPARENT 2

K13

1 North_Atlantic 34.47
2 Baltic 34.1
3 West_Med 15.21
4 East_Med 7.13
5 West_Asian 5.43
6 Red_Sea 1.29
7 South_Asian 0.86
8 Amerindian 0.85
9 Oceanian 0.67

1 East_German 3.4
2 Hungarian 4.94
3 Austrian 4.96
4 Croatian 7.23
5 South_Polish 8.88
6 Moldavian 10.03
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.04
8 Ukrainian 10.89
9 Polish 11.91
10 Serbian 12.03
11 West_German 12.92
12 North_Swedish 13.04
13 North_German 13.62
14 South_Dutch 13.79
15 Southwest_Finnish 14.03
16 Swedish 14.52
17 Russian_Smolensk 15.35
18 Southwest_Russian 15.39
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.82
20 Estonian_Polish 15.86



K15

1 North_Sea 25
2 Atlantic 18.55
3 Eastern_Euro 18.2
4 Baltic 17.22
5 West_Med 12.72
6 East_Med 3.25
7 West_Asian 3.08
8 Red_Sea 1.23
9 Oceanian 0.44
10 South_Asian 0.3

1 East_German 5.95
2 Hungarian 7.42
3 Austrian 8.88
4 Croatian 9.17
5 Moldavian 10.34
6 South_Polish 10.75
7 Ukrainian 10.94
8 Southwest_Finnish 11.15
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.3
10 Serbian 11.55
11 Polish 12.01
12 Finnish 12.73
13 South_Dutch 13
14 North_Swedish 13.65
15 West_German 13.7
16 North_German 14.33
17 East_Finnish 14.35
18 Russian_Smolensk 14.93
19 French 15.23
20 Southwest_Russian 15.69

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.G

Yes sir, that's correct.

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Alright. I posted the Eurogenes results.

Eurogenes K13 Vahaduo, Large Regions

MCMXCV_Parent,33.61,30.97,16.55,8.77,8.67,0.15,0,0 .14,0.58,0,0,0.57,0

Target: MCMXCV_Parent
Distance: 2.0550% / 2.05503185 | ADC: 0.5x
90.6 Austrian_Styria
5.2 Austrian_Lower_Austria
4.2 Serb

Distance to: MCMXCV_Parent
2.38079819 Austrian_Styria
4.68841124 Austrian_Carinthia
5.19162788 Hungarian
5.23015296 Slovene
5.38298244 Austrian
5.88714702 Croat_Northern
6.96445260 German_Southeast
7.19534572 Hungarian_North
7.23090589 Croat
7.36829017 Csángó-Ceangău
7.73789377 Hungarian_Transylvania
7.74897896 Austrian_Lower_Austria
8.25008485 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
8.27657538 Slovak
8.75729981 Croat_Southern
8.95763362 Austrian_Burgenland
9.16088424 Czech
9.25218353 Lemko_Poland
10.19161911 German
10.33297634 Romanian_North
10.53724347 Bosniak
10.98038706 Ukrainian_Carpathians
11.24893328 Moldovan_North
11.25497668 French_Alsace
11.34766055 Austrian_Tyrol

On the original spreadsheet, your parent is closest to the old Hungarian average.

Target: MCMXCV_Parent
Distance: 2.7245% / 2.72445242 | ADC: 0.5x RC
70.8 Austrian
29.2 Moldavian

Distance to: MCMXCV_Parent
4.82095426 Hungarian
4.86522353 Austrian
5.87902203 East_German
8.73608036 Croatian
10.16821518 Moldavian
10.54580485 Serbian
13.14025114 West_German
13.17119964 South_Polish
14.11455277 Ukrainian_Lviv
14.50229982 South_Dutch
15.05739021 Romanian
15.24636022 Ukrainian
16.15959158 North_German
17.23456121 Polish
17.25188685 French
18.09367569 North_Swedish
18.31307183 Bulgarian
18.55814646 Swedish
19.11261102 Danish
19.34567394 North_Dutch
19.63819747 Southeast_English
19.84026966 Southwest_Finnish
20.15551785 Southwest_Russian
20.38985042 Ukrainian_Belgorod
20.41209445 Norwegian

MCMXCV, I suggest that you you take the component values from your family kits and arrange them the way I did for your parent's K13. What you need to do is copy the values from the page before you click "oracle" on the GEDmatch site. So, copy all of the values in that exact order, even the zero's. Then write them like I did for your parent's K13, or for example: Grandparent1,32.59,32.48, but include all 13 values, or in the case of K15, all 15 values. Then start plugging them into the calculators here: https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/

Enjoy!

MCMXCV, if you don't mind, it would be very interesting to see your 23andMe results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.G

MCMXCV, I suggest that you you take the component values from your family kits and arrange them the way I did for your K13. What you need to do is copy the values from the page before you click "oracle" on the GEDmatch site. So, copy all of the values in that exact order, even the zero's. Then write them like I did for your K13, or for example: Grandparent1,32.59,32.48, but include all 13 values, or in the case of K15, all 15 values. Then start plugging them into the calculators here: https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/

Enjoy!

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Alright, thanks! I saw such calculators before but didn’t know what was to be put into the target, and now I know. You really helped me a lot.

Also, does what you posted above mean some of my ancestors were from Hungary? From what I know from my family tree, they do come from a border region right next to Hungary, so such admixture isn’t really a surprise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

Alright, thanks! I saw such calculators before but didn’t know what was to be put into the target, and now I know. You really helped me a lot.

Also, does what you posted above mean some of my ancestors were from Hungary? From what I know from my family tree, they do come from a border region right next to Hungary, so such admixture isn’t really a surprise.

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My pleasure, happy to help.

It could be Hungarian admix, or maybe it is simply deeper German admix that his pulling your parent slightly away from the Slovene average. Important to remember that these are just population averages, even among people with deep, seemingly unmixed ancestry from a place, the results can veer away from the average a little.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

PARENT

K13

1 North_Atlantic 33.61
2 Baltic 30.97
3 West_Med 16.55
4 West_Asian 8.77
5 East_Med 8.67
6 Siberian 0.58
7 Northeast_African 0.57
8 Red_Sea 0.15
9 East_Asian 0.14

1 Austrian 4.3
2 Hungarian 4.38
3 East_German 5.14
4 Croatian 7.7
5 Moldavian 8.92
6 Serbian 9.16
7 West_German 11.54
8 South_Polish 11.68
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.5
10 South_Dutch 12.68
11 Romanian 13.06
12 Ukrainian 13.48
13 North_German 14.11
14 French 15.2
15 Polish 15.25
16 Bulgarian 15.86
17 North_Swedish 15.94
18 Swedish 16.18
19 Danish 16.65
20 North_Dutch 16.84



K15

1 North_Sea 29.77
2 Baltic 19.26
3 Atlantic 15.07
4 West_Med 13.18
5 Eastern_Euro 9.48
6 West_Asian 6.89
7 East_Med 5.8
8 Northeast_African 0.56

1 Hungarian 7.13
2 East_German 8.2
3 West_German 10.75
4 Moldavian 11.54
5 Austrian 11.79
6 Croatian 11.86
7 Serbian 12.23
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.98
9 South_Dutch 13.09
10 Ukrainian 13.75
11 South_Polish 13.9
12 North_German 14.07
13 Swedish 14.21
14 French 14.4
15 North_Swedish 14.55
16 Romanian 14.81
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.92
18 Norwegian 15.08
19 North_Dutch 15.56
20 Finnish 15.7

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I am similar to your grandparent2:


https://i.imgur.com/XXsXsoc.png
https://i.imgur.com/r4H8EF5.png
https://i.imgur.com/4iv7LId.png
https://i.imgur.com/3OBGthA.png

https://i.imgur.com/c456Hcs.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.G

MCMXCV, if you don't mind, it would be very interesting to see your 23andMe results.

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I’ll post them. Do you want to see the subdivisions as well or are the percentages of the main regions enough?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

I’ll post them. Do you want to see the subdivisions as well or are the percentages of the main regions enough?

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Main regions plus the subregions i.e. French and German, etc. would be great.

It would be interesting to see your recent ancestor locations too, but no biggie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ph2ter

I am similar to your grandparent2:


https://i.imgur.com/XXsXsoc.png
https://i.imgur.com/r4H8EF5.png
https://i.imgur.com/4iv7LId.png
https://i.imgur.com/3OBGthA.png

https://i.imgur.com/c456Hcs.png

---

Wow! Thanks a lot for these maps! Basically all my known ancestors come just east from the most red area in the first depiction, from the circle above which it says Austrian_Styria_Slovene (the emboldened part).
Do you have any know ancestors from Bohemia? For Grandparent 2, I have the most researched family tree, but still only Slovenia…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.G

Main regions plus the subregions i.e. French and German, etc. would be great.

It would be interesting to see your recent ancestor locations too, but no biggie.

---

Alright. I’ll post them the first thing tomorrow morning.

Here's your parent (p), grandparent1 (gp1), and grandparent2 (gp2) plotted on a Eurogenes K15 PCA map.
For comparison, those black dots are from a genetic study on Slovenians, samples taken from Ljubljana.

https://i.imgur.com/khjFAFg.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

Wow! Thanks a lot for these maps! Basically all my known ancestors come just east from the most red area in the first depiction, from the circle above which it says Austrian_Styria_Slovene (the emboldened part).
Do you have any know ancestors from Bohemia? For Grandparent 2, I have the most researched family tree, but still only Slovenia…

---

No, I don't have anybody from Bohemia. Only Zagorje in Croatia and border area of Slovenia. From where is your gp2?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

Alright. I’ll post them the first thing tomorrow morning.

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Cool, look forward to seeing them.

I am sorry, I had misunderstood your original post, I just re-read it and saw that your personal 23andMe result is still pending - it is your other family members results that are actually finished. I'll go back and edit my posts to accurately reflect that I was posting your parent's K13, not yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ph2ter

No, I don't have anybody from Bohemia. Only Zagorje in Croatia and border area of Slovenia. From where is your gp2?

---

The ancestors of Grandparent 2 come from the regions № 21 and 08 on this map. Most from the eastern half of 21 and a few from 08. One — and with them likely that whole branch from — also from the northernmost part of 42, right on the border with 21.
The four regions with emboldened borders represent all my ancestor’s birthplaces (from all branches) of which I’m aware.

PARENT

European 99.9%

Eastern European 78.9%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Ljubljana
2. Administrative unit Maribor
3. Lendava
4. Novo Mesto
5. Ribnica

Northwestern European 10.1%
French & German 10.1%
Austria Possible Match
1. Styria
2. Upper Austria
3. Carinthia
4. Vienna
Germany Possible Match
1. Bavaria
2. Berlin
3. North Rhine-Westphalia
4. Baden-Württemberg
5. Rhineland-Palatinate

Southern European 2.1%
Greek & Balkan 1.7%
Croatia Possible Match
1. Zagreb
2. Primorje-Gorski Kotar County
3. Zadar County
Broadly Southern European 0.4%

Ashkenazi Jewish 1.6%

Broadly European 7.2%

Unassigned 0.1%

GRANDPARENT 1

European 100%

Eastern European 65.4%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Ljubljana
2. Postojna
3. Krško
4. Novo Mesto

Northwestern European 27.0%
French & German 27.0%

Southern European 4.2%
Greek & Balkan 4.2%
Croatia Possible Match
1. Zadar County
2. Primorje-Gorski Kotar County
3. Split-Dalmatia County

Broadly European 3.4%

GRANDPARENT 2

European 100%

Eastern European 68.4%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Ljubljana
2. Lendava
Poland Possible Match
1. Podkarpackie Voivodeship
2. Lesser Poland Voivodeship
3. Silesian Voivodeship
4. Łódź Voivodeship
5. Greater Poland Voivodeship
6. Masovian Voivodeship
7. Lower Silesian Voivodeship
Russia Possible Match
1. Moscow Oblast
2. Irkutsk Oblast
3. Novosibirsk Oblast
4. Saint Petersburg
5. Kemerovo Oblast
6. Tula Oblast

Northwestern European 19.5%
French & German 18.6%
Austria Possible Match
1. Burgenland
2. Styria
Germany Possible Match
1. North Rhine-Westphalia
2. Bavaria
3. Hamburg
4. Hesse
Finnish 0.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.3%

Southern European 8.2%
Greek & Balkan 8.2%
Croatia Possible Match
1. Split-Dalmatia County
2. Dubrovnik-Neretva County
3. Karlovac County
4. Primorje-Gorski Kotar County

Broadly European 3.9%

All these are normal Slovene results.
Is any of these samples 4/4 grandparents full ethnic Slovenian? If yes, I can include them in Slovenian genetic average.

No problem. My initial sample failed and had to send in another one; therefore, I expect my own results in a month or so.
I posted the 23andMe results of my family above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MCMXCV

The ancestors of Grandparent 2 come from the regions № 21 and 08 on this map. Most from the eastern half of 21 and a few from 08. One — and with them likely that whole branch from — also from the northernmost part of 42, right on the border with 21.
The four regions with emboldened borders represent all my ancestor’s birthplaces (from all branches) of which I’m aware.

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Thanks.
I have some ancestors born about 1800 in the region number 54 on your map.

They all have 4/4 grandparents born within present-day Slovenia, except Grandparent 1, where one grandparent is unknown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.G

Cool, look forward to seeing them.

I am sorry, I had misunderstood your original post, I just re-read it and saw that your personal 23andMe result is still pending - it is your other family members results that are actually finished. I'll go back and edit my posts to accurately reflect that I was posting your parent's K13, not yours.

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No problem. My initial sample failed and had to send in another one; therefore, I expect my own results in a month or so.
I posted the 23andMe results of my family above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

All these are normal Slovene results.
Is any of these samples 4/4 grandparents full ethnic Slovenian? If yes, I can include them in Slovenian genetic average.

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They all have 4/4 grandparents born within present-day Slovenia, except Grandparent 1, where one grandparent is unknown.