VLATKO VUKOVIC's autosomal!

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Originally Posted by Porn Master

Vlatko Vukovic are you buddist? xD

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Yes bro.

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

My paternal line is probably from Montenegro (Y-DNA will confirm or refute it), but why is that important for genetics?

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I probably have some signifigant ancestry from there, due to my results being very southern for serbs from croatia

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Originally Posted by Leto

Bro, I have no anti-Albanian sentiments, I simply judge by the opinions of Albanian nationalists in this forum. I mean people say "well, you're Albanian which means Muslim" and that freaks some Albanians out, so they turn against Christian Europeans and start defending Islam. They can practice whatever they want in Albania or Kosovo, but I hate it when pro-Islamic people (not necessarily Albanians) try to tell us that Islam is just as European as Christianity or that "we used to be violent too".

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I know you don't but you can't come to such a conclusion based on forum members. Albanians are just trying to defend themselves when people try and accuse them of something just because of religion. I don't think religions today can belong to any group such as "European". Albanians are known for being one of the most religious tolerant people and that we have no care for what religion a person belongs to

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

I know you don't but you can't come to such a conclusion based on forum members. Albanians are just trying to defend themselves when people try and accuse them of something just because of religion. I don't think religions today can belong to any group such as "European". Albanians are known for being one of the most religious tolerant people and that we have no care for what religion a person belongs to

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Well, I would find it hard to accept a man whose name is Ahmad and who has a mullah beard as a culturally European person. Maybe you think different because Albanians can be both Muslim and Christian, but in other countries people who convert to Islam usually discard their culture and embrace some pseudo-Arabic identity.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Well, I would find it hard to accept a man whose name is Ahmad and who has a mullah beard as a culturally European person. Maybe you think different because Albanians can be both Muslim and Christian, but in other countries people who convert to Islam usually discard their culture and embrace some pseudo-Arabic identity.

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Our muslim names in Bosnia are usually unique. They're from Arab or Persian origin but still unique. Ahmed, Muhammed is not very usual name here. Most of our names doesn't exist in Arabia or even Turkey. :)

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Originally Posted by Leto

Well, I would find it hard to accept a man whose name is Ahmad and who has a mullah beard as a culturally European person. Maybe you think different because Albanians can be both Muslim and Christian, but in other countries people who convert to Islam usually discard their culture and embrace some pseudo-Arabic identity.

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Albanians though don't have those beards and especially don't assume an Islamic identitiy, a muslim Albanian is just as culturally Albanian as a christian Albanian.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Well, I would find it hard to accept a man whose name is Ahmad and who has a mullah beard as a culturally European person. Maybe you think different because Albanians can be both Muslim and Christian, but in other countries people who convert to Islam usually discard their culture and embrace some pseudo-Arabic identity.

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It seems you haven't met much Albanians. Those i've seen (muslims) were far from being religious.

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Originally Posted by *****

There is nothing to congratulate me.
I am not a Croat, I am just passionate about history and genetics.
Also there is no pan-slavism and what bounds most of the modern Slavs today is the language only.
The pan-slavism was favoured in the past, but not anymore, there are simply too many differences between us.
My involvement in this discussion was because of your exaggerated influence of Turkics on Slavs.
In fact, the Turkics had much more contact with Germanics than Slavs.

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I am Balkanite and i have relation with East Slavs. Your theory falls down.

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Originally Posted by RN97

You are western, central Europeans. Ask Stears ;)

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Albania was never Catholic state, it had more orthodox belivers before Ottomans arrived and it was in Byzantine sphere of influence.

Wrong parallel.

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Originally Posted by *****

That's simply not true.
I don't know why you are trying to push this agenda but that's not true.
Slovenes, Croats and Bosniaks are definitely more Slavic.
Even Serbs, I've seen many results of them and most of them are under fifty percent "South Eastern Europe" on FTDNA's MyOrigins.
Also you plot closer to Moldavians and you are rather closer to Ukrainians than to Greeks.

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Serbs are usually (not at all) North-West influenced. I am North East, Balto-Slavica area.

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Originally Posted by Dibran

Aren't Gorani basically just a minority slavic tribe that never formed nationhood?

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They might be muslim Bulgarians/Macedonians or southern Serbs with distinct identity. But many are culturally albanized and have albanian surnames (those from Kosovo), despite they don't speak Albanian language.

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Originally Posted by *****

That's simply not true.
I don't know why you are trying to push this agenda but that's not true.
Slovenes, Croats and Bosniaks are definitely more Slavic.
Even Serbs, I've seen many results of them and most of them are under fifty percent "South Eastern Europe" on FTDNA's MyOrigins.
Also you plot closer to Moldavians and you are rather closer to Ukrainians than to Greeks.

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False, I plot with serbs from Serbia.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Albania was never Catholic state, it had more orthodox belivers before Ottomans arrived and it was in Byzantine sphere of influence.

Wrong parallel.

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Under Skanderbeg and the League of Lezhe Albania was a Catholic state and was supported by the pope on many occasions. In the north there were more Catholics than Orthodox Christians

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Under Skanderbeg and the League of Lezhe Albania was a Catholic state and was supported by the pope on many occasions. In the north there were more Catholics than Orthodox Christians

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Only in the north which was more isolated from southern orthodox Albania.

Do you have gothic and romanesque architecture there, or Byzantine ? That's trademark of all Catholic states

PS :

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During the moment of schism (1054) Albanians were attached to the Eastern Orthodox Church and were all Orthodox Christians.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter...oxy_in_Albania

A member's genetic test results thread is being drifted from its purpose to be, but just as a sidenote, North Albania under Scanderberg wasn't a state or sort of a kingdom. It was a Venetian dependency. Albanians were in the Orthodox, Byzantine, Eastern side during the 1054 West-East schism. However to this day, northern Albania has Catholic population. They aren't culturally western tho. A bit like Ukrainian Catholics.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Only in the north which was more isolated from southern orthodox Albania.

Do you have gothic and romanesque architecture there, or Byzantine ? That's trademark of all Catholic states

PS :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter...oxy_in_Albania

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Still though Skanderbeg's Albania was a Catholic one. The northerners converted in order to resist the Orthodox Slavs. Albania probably does have some of those architectural type somewhere although most of the old architecture is Ottoman or Byzantine like as Albania was under that sphere of influence regardless of religious affiliation. I never said that Albanians weren't Orthodox at first

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Originally Posted by Böri

A member's genetic test results thread is being drifted from its purpose to be, but just as a sidenote, North Albania under Scanderberg wasn't a state or sort of a kingdom. It was a Venetian dependency. Albanians were in the Orthodox, Byzantine, Eastern side during the 1054 West-East schism.

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It was a state and was independent from Venice, true that it was at first Orthodox but many began converting into Catholicism

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Originally Posted by Marmara

It seems you haven't met much Albanians. Those i've seen (muslims) were far from being religious.

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My post wasn't about them being religious. Nevermind.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

It was a state and was independent from Venice, true that it was at first Orthodox but many began converting into Catholicism

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League Lezhe etc wasn't an independent Albanian kingdom. It was Venetian dependency. Later Skanderberg himself entered under Naples sphere of influence going to Italy to fight wars there etc. Skanderberg was never a king. He was leader of Albanian landlords and local nobles who were dispossessed by Turks.

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Originally Posted by *****

What part of my theory fall's down?
If you read carefully, I was writing about all Slavic countries, not specifically for you...

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Yes, but the fact that Macedonians and South Serbs aren't related with other Slavs, doesn't make Slavs just as "linguistic group". South Slavs, East Slavs and West Slavs are genetically connected with each other, which make them ethnic group. ;)

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Originally Posted by Böri

League Lezhe etc wasn't an independent Albanian kingdom. It was Venetian dependency. Later Skanderberg himself entered under Naples sphere of influence going to Italy to fight wars there etc. Skanderberg was never a king. He was leader of Albanian landlords and local nobles who were dispossessed by Turks.

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The League was independent from the Venetians and was a union of Albanian principalities, the Venetians had territories in Albania but the League wasn't a vassal or dependency of the Venetians all the Venetians did was support it as a patron. True Skanderbeg couldn't fully become the king of Albania but he was the leader of the League which as I said before was a union or alliance of Albanian principalities

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...n_1450.svg.png

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

What drugs are you on ? His results are typical for Bosnia, it is Vlach influenced Bosniensis that is out of norm, not Vlatko.

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From where did Vlatko's high eastern input and asian markers come from, if not from a recent russian ancestor?6th slavic immigrant heritage is out of the question, that was 1500 years ago.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

From where did Vlatko's high eastern input and asian markers come from, if not from a recent russian ancestor?6th slavic immigrant heritage is out of the question, that was 1500 years ago.

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They are simply more Northern than Serbs. The same goes for Croats and Slovenians. If he had a Russian grandparent, he most likely would've known him. There's no Russians in Bosnia, for God's sake.

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Originally Posted by Leto

They are simply more Northern than Serbs. The same goes for Croats and Slovenians. If he had a Russian grandparent, he most likely would've known him. There's no Russians in Bosnia, for God's sake.

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Asian marker comes from Middle East.

My Eastern Input is from 6th century immigrants.

"Caucasian" isn't asiatic. This is special calculator. My asian marker is West Asian, about 6%. And Siberian 1.6%. Everything other is European.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Only in the north which was more isolated from southern orthodox Albania.

Do you have gothic and romanesque architecture there, or Byzantine ? That's trademark of all Catholic states

PS :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter...oxy_in_Albania

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wrong and misleading. The north became catholic while the south not.

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Originally Posted by Leto

They are simply more Northern than Serbs. The same goes for Croats and Slovenians. If he had a Russian grandparent, he most likely would've known him. There's no Russians in Bosnia, for God's sake.

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I saw the gedmatch of the 2 bosnians you posted and neither had this asian and lower steppe, also he tested at ftdna not 23andme/ancestry and i saw on this forum people who tested at both got quite different gedmatch results as if they were different people.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

he tested at ftdna not 23andme/ancestry and i saw on this forum people who tested at both got quite different gedmatch results as if they were different people.

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That's not true. Usually the difference is within 1 percent or so.

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Asian marker comes from Middle East.

My Eastern Input is from 6th century immigrants.

"Caucasian" isn't asiatic. This is special calculator. My asian marker is West Asian, about 6%. And Siberian 1.6%. Everything other is European.

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i am talking about normal euro calculators ,like k13/k15/mldplh world etc..caucasus is not asian but having a high caucasus and asian is a north-eastern thing.
This 'my ancestors did not mix/It is mixture from centuries ago' is a false argument,the same one user Stears pulls when people call him out on his very high caucasus/asian score as if his parents were inbred since the magyar conquest so only he got these results, and people mixed with their countrymen for hundreds and thousands of years, in both you and his case its most likely a recent result.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

i am talking about normal euro calculators ,like k13/k15/mldplh world etc..caucasus is not asian but having a high caucasus and asian is a north-eastern thing.

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Lol, since when? It is the highest in Southeastern Europe.

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Originally Posted by *****

Yes, and Serbs in general plot close to Moldavians.
You can share with us your eurogenes k15 admix oracle and the PCA plot based on eurogenes k15 so we can see how do you plot?

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I plot with the Serbian sample on K15.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

i am talking about normal euro calculators ,like k13/k15/mldplh world etc..caucasus is not asian but having a high caucasus and asian is a north-eastern thing.
This 'my ancestors did not mix/It is mixture from centuries ago' is a false argument,the same one user Stears pulls when people call him out on his very high caucasus/asian score as if his parents were inbred since the magyar conquest so only he got these results, and people mixed with their countrymen for hundreds and thousands of years, in both you and his case its most likely a recent result.

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I am sorry for you, but i didn't have East Slavic ancestors. That is what you wish, but reallity is different. It's just reallity that me (an massively my compatriots) have still genetic results from our ancient Urhemeit. That is what everybody have seen, that is what you see but just pretending to have some other explanation.

For the last time: I don't have any East Slavic nor ANY non-balkanite recent ancestors. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Leto

That's not true. Usually the difference is within 1 percent or so.

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i saw an albanian user complain he had quite different results and they were more than a percent

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Originally Posted by Leto

Lol, since when? It is the highest in Southeastern Europe.

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maybe i saw wrong, it was a steppe on a calculator that peaks on russians, nevertheless he has atypical asian stuff and he's been told he has very high slavic for a south slav here even by Stearsolina at the beginning of the thread, so he is atypical, having some east slavic ancestry is not out of the question

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

i saw an albanian user complain he had quite different results and they were more than a percent


maybe i saw wrong, it was a steppe on a calculator that peaks on russians, nevertheless he has atypical asian stuff and he's been told he has very high slavic for a south slav here even by Stearsolina at the beginning of the thread, so he is atypical, having some east slavic ancestry is not out of the question

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He doesn't have any atypical Asian stuff, stop making shit up. 1-2% mongoloid is normal in every Slavic country.

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

i saw an albanian user complain he had quite different results and they were more than a percent


maybe i saw wrong, it was a steppe on a calculator that peaks on russians, nevertheless he has atypical asian stuff and he's been told he has very high slavic for a south slav here even by Stearsolina at the beginning of the thread, so he is atypical, having some east slavic ancestry is not out of the question

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And if i have to say it; My (father) ancestors lived in a village which is totally unsettled, less than 50 settlers in this time, now less than 100. And they were isolated from Vlach influence or any other native for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

And if i have to say it; My (father) ancestors lived in a village which is totally unsettled, less than 50 settlers in this time, now less than 100. And they were isolated from Vlach influence or any other native for a long time.

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By the way, which part of Bosnia are you from?

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Originally Posted by Leto

By the way, which part of Bosnia are you from?

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I am from capital Sarajevo. But my grandparents (from both sides) are from various Bosnian ancestry.

Father paternal line is Central-East Bosnia ( very rural place), father maternal line is East Bosnia (rural place), mother's paternal Central Bosnia (urban place), and mother's maternal southern = Herzegowina. (urban place).

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Originally Posted by Leto

He doesn't have any atypical Asian stuff, stop making shit up. 1-2% mongoloid is normal in every Slavic country.

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He does, neither serbs,nor hungarians,romanians and hungarians score amerindian and stuff like this,only some siberian if they have.
Also ,you said he is typical and gave these 2 bosniak samples

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These are Bosniaks:
A095922
M893654

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Now i have done the k15 map on the first one who has very high baltic and this is were he plots
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...25/unknown.png
Bosnian my ass, he is more atypical than Bosniensis, if Bosniensis has asimilited ''''vlah'''' as Stearsolina says then this bosniak has assimiliated russian

And here is the map with both, second one with M has much less baltic ~15.5, compared to 23.7 on the first one which is extremely high...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...74/unknown.png

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Originally Posted by MalinBot

He does, neither serbs,nor hungarians,romanians and hungarians score amerindian and stuff like this,only some siberian if they have.
Also ,you said he is typical and gave these 2 bosniak samples


Now i have done the k15 map on the first one who has very high baltic and this is were he plots
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...25/unknown.png
Bosnian my ass, he is more atypical than Bosniensis, if Bosniensis has asimilited ''''vlah'''' as Stearsolina says then this bosniak has assimiliated russian

And here is the map with both, second one with M has much less baltic ~15.5, compared to 23.7 on the first one which is extremely high...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...74/unknown.png

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Oh c'mon, just get the fuck out. You literally know shit, ignoramus. Literally every European can score some "Amerindian" (NO ONE in Europe has actual Amerindian ancestry, that's just noise or misinterpreted Siberian or God knows what else).

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Originally Posted by Leto

Oh c'mon, just get the fuck out. You literally know shit, ignoramus. Literally every European can score some "Amerindian" (NO ONE in Europe has actual Amerindian ancestry, that's just noise or misinterpreted Siberian or God knows what else).

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Who knows from who this guy is sockpuppet.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Oh c'mon, just get the fuck out. You literally know shit, ignoramus. Literally every European can score some "Amerindian" (NO ONE in Europe has actual Amerindian ancestry, that's just noise or misinterpreted Siberian or God knows what else).

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ignore k15 results and change the subject to fit you, shithead.
I never said you cant score amerindian, however the total score on the typical k13/k15/mldpk he has is noticeable higger than average,i clearly said its not atypical to score some siberian or amerindian but its usually only 1 or 2 components and they are low.
Now vlatko can be bosnian/bosniak,its fine, but neither you nor stearsolina call him typical,he is not and if he is than Bosniensis is too.