Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Celtic as well

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Atlantic also

What about Scythians/Sarmatians do any of you think that they could of impacted us genetically?

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

What about Scythians/Sarmatians do any of you think that they could of impacted us genetically?

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Prolly nothing. They(The Scythians) had Mongolian influence.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Atlantic also

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Yep although I would say that Celtic is included as "Atlantic"

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Yep although I would say that Celtic is included as "Atlantic"

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The Antic Basque Atlantic Admixture I was implying. :)

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Originally Posted by Ujku

O rot kari hajde me mua ne behar ne sarande ose ne vlore edhe shiko me syt e tua se sa zezak edhe slav jemi.

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Gjenetika nuk rren. Edhe jum kan niqin here qanej ka ju. Edhe cka? Argument budallakafet.

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Originally Posted by ilir

Your getting nervous of me embarrasing my self lol

That clearly means that albanians affected all these populations and specially south speaking slavs which we know in big part are slavspeaking albanians, ilirians or how you'd like to call them.
Now go to fuck your self and don't get nervous.

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Talking to a massive moron like you is draining. And no, that's not the whole picture. First of all, Tosks clearly have a large amount of Slavic Y-DNA, which means they assimilated a large Slavic body of people. Secondly, we share a lot of IBD with Poles, which obviously means Slavic influence on the Albanian gene pool, because Slavs went southwards from somewhere around Poland, while Albanians never were anywhere near Poland to influence it genetically.

But yes, I agree South Slavs were greatly influenced by Albanians genetically, but by Gheg Albanians. What Y-DNA distributions tells us is that, at least paternally, Gheg Albanians have very little genetic influence from South Slavs, Tosks have many times more than Ghegs. Meaning that South Slavs assimilated Ghegs, while Tosks assimilated South Slavs.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Prolly nothing. They(The Scythians) had Mongolian influence.

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Not really as I saw an autosomal result of a Scythian/Sarmatian person and it showed that Northern European and Eurasian were dominant, also Dacians which obviously contributed to our genetic make up intermarried with Scythians/Sarmatians

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Not really as I saw an autosomal result of a Scythian/Sarmatian person and it showed that Northern European and Eurasian were dominant, also Dacians which obviously contributed to our genetic make up intermarried with Scythians/Sarmatians

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Yes but they had some of that extra, too.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

The Antic Basque Atlantic Admixture I was implying. :)

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Aha so possibly it is implying Neolithic or Pre-Indo-European influences

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Yes but they had some of that extra, too.

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True but they were made up of other Steppe populations so tbh it's hard to tell

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Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

Gjenetika nuk rren. Edhe jum kan niqin here qanej ka ju. Edhe cka? Argument budallakafet.



Talking to a massive moron like you is draining. And no, that's not the whole picture. First of all, Tosks clearly have a large amount of Slavic Y-DNA, which means they assimilated a large Slavic body of people. Secondly, we share a lot of IBD with Poles, which obviously means Slavic influence on the Albanian gene pool, because Slavs went southwards from somewhere around Poland, while Albanians never were anywhere near Poland to influence it genetically.

But yes, I agree South Slavs were greatly influenced by Albanians genetically, but by Gheg Albanians. What Y-DNA distributions tells us is that, at least paternally, Gheg Albanians have very little genetic influence from South Slavs, Tosks have many times more than Ghegs. Meaning that South Slavs assimilated Ghegs, while Tosks assimilated South Slavs.

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Especially Montenegrin's

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Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

Gjenetika nuk rren. Edhe jum kan niqin here qanej ka ju. Edhe cka? Argument budallakafet.



Talking to a massive moron like you is draining. And no, that's not the whole picture. First of all, Tosks clearly have a large amount of Slavic Y-DNA, which means they assimilated a large Slavic body of people. Secondly, we share a lot of IBD with Poles, which obviously means Slavic influence on the Albanian gene pool, because Slavs went southwards from somewhere around Poland, while Albanians never were anywhere near Poland to influence it genetically.

But yes, I agree South Slavs were greatly influenced by Albanians genetically, but by Gheg Albanians. What Y-DNA distributions tells us is that, at least paternally, Gheg Albanians have very little genetic influence from South Slavs, Tosks have many times more than Ghegs. Meaning that South Slavs assimilated Ghegs, while Tosks assimilated South Slavs.

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Not necessarily you inconsistent moron, it could be due to a founder effect

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Not necessarily you inconsistent moron, it could be due to a founder effect

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Oh, right, which only means that the Tosk Albanians with (paternally) Slavic origins for some reason multiplied more, which in effect would be the same damn thing. Either way, there's a disproportionate amount of Slavic ancestry in Tosk Albanians.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Not necessarily you inconsistent moron, it could be due to a founder effect

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Skerdi could you pls explain to me what "Founder effect", "Bottlenecks" etc are?

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Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

Oh, right, which only means that the Tosk Albanians with Slavic origins for some reason multiplied more, which in effect would be the same damn thing.

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There is a difference between assimilated large body of Slavic population with few families who expanded later as Albanians any way you look at it.

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

There is a difference between assimilated large body of Slavic population with few families who expanded later as Albanians any way you look at it.

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Yeah, it's called splitting hairs over something that isn't very likely to have happened. And you really overestimate founder effects.

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Originally Posted by Kelmendasi

Skerdi could you pls explain to me what "Founder effect", "Bottlenecks" etc are?

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Read it here bro: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...bottlenecks_01

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Read it here bro: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...bottlenecks_01

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Thanks man :thumb001:

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Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

Yeah, it's called splitting hairs over something that isn't very likely to have happened. And you really overestimate founder effects.

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I am not splitting hair here, if your scenario were correct we would see other effects of such assimilation, culturally and linguistically most importantly, without even discussing the low diversity of I2a within the Balkans.

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Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

Oh, right, which only means that the Tosk Albanians with (paternally) Slavic origins for some reason multiplied more, which in effect would be the same damn thing. Either way, there's a disproportionate amount of Slavic ancestry in Tosk Albanians.

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But why tosk and ghegs look almost the same then ?????? My grandpa ( a Lab from corrush originaly ) is Isa boletinis look alike... Also when i was in prishtina 3 years ago with my aunt which was a guest of some people she took in her home in 99' , I don't think that i saw any difference between them (and people in prishtina in general ) and people from the south..


Also you can check gheg and tosk singers on youtube..

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Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

I am not splitting hair here, if your scenario were correct we would see other effects of such assimilation, culturally and linguistically most importantly, without even discussing the low diversity of I2a within the Balkans.

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It is hair-splitting. Southern Albania was only under Slavic rule for many centuries. Epirus overall was teeming with Slavs, just as it teems with Slavic toponyms to this day. The Albanian language has been influenced extensively by Slavic. A lot of our vocabulary regarding agriculture, the trades, the sea, etc. is Slavic in origin, which is why historians think that Albanians learned and took a lot of these from the Slavs. That in itself is a massive cultural influence, too. That's true whether we speak of Ghegs or Tosks. Then you just have to look at the Albanian Medieval Ages.

I2a's diversity is low exactly because it originated outside of the Balkans and came down to the Balkans with the Slavs, there's the bottleneck. Those same Slavs then brought it down to South Albania. You could hold on to your fantasy that the reason Tosks have a high percentage of it is because of a bottleneck, but there'd be Slav Y-DNA foaming out of that bottleneck all the same. But that's disregarding history. Not to mention the fact that higher I2a in Tosks also coincides with higher R1a.

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Originally Posted by Ujku

But why tosk and ghegs look almost the same then ?????? My grandpa ( a Lab from corrush originaly ) is Isa boletinis look alike... Also when i was in prishtina 3 years ago with my aunt which was a guest of some people she took in her home in 99' , I don't think that i saw any difference between them (and people in prishtina in general ) and people from the south..


Also you can check gheg and tosk singers on youtube..

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For fuck's sake, stop being such a simpleton. I've been in the south a thousand times and the differences are obvious. Not even North Albanians look like you, they look more like us, and they're within your own borders. Fact is you have a lot of Slavic Y-DNA.

We can't be too sure that Tosks have a high I2a1b frequency since not too many have been tested. It could possibly be as low as 12-15%.

It should be peaking in the Vlachs of South Albania.

You guys freak out over a lot over nothing. I + J is Cro Magnon ancestery.

R + G + E + N + T missed the boat.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

We can't be too sure that Tosks have a high I2a1b frequency since not too many have been tested. It could possibly be as low as 12-15%.

It should be peaking in the Vlachs of South Albania.

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Korca is most heavily Vlachic region of which correlates with high I2a aswell, seem that Vlachs indeed have unusual high number of I2a.

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Originally Posted by The Illyrian Warrior

Korca is most heavily Vlachic region of which correlates with high I2a aswell, seem that Vlachs indeed have unusual high number of I2a.

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Slavs + Aromanians may have together brought I2a1b to the Balkans as a founder effect:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-languages.png

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Originally Posted by The Illyrian Warrior

Korca is most heavily Vlachic region of which correlates with high I2a aswell, seem that Vlachs indeed have unusual high number of I2a.

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Yes Vlachs and Sarakatsani do have I-P37.2 its about 11k years old in line with Thessalian neolithic expansion into Balkans from Sesklo or so the theory goes.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Yes Vlachs and Sarakatsani do have I-P37.2 its about 11k years old in line with Thessalian neolithic expansion into Balkans from Sesklo or so the theory goes.

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Any studies on the Sarakatsanoi?

We apologise for the spread of I - all we wanted to do is to ensure you freak out daily on TA

http://www.geocities.ws/luis_aldamiz...maps/-6000.gif

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Slavs + Aromanians together may have brought I2a1b to the Balkans as a founder effect:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-languages.png

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Wasn't coincidence when I said on another thread that I'm interested to know more genetically about Korca, this region is well known for huge Vlachic population.......high I2a correlates very well with high Vlach population, therefore this genetic marks wasn't caused solely by Slavic settlers but perhaps more from Vlachs then slavs themselves.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Yes Vlachs and Sarakatsani do have I-P37.2 its about 11k years old in line with Thessalian neolithic expansion into Balkans from Sesklo or so the theory goes.

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It's the very same clade as I2a1b-Din, so from Slavic origin. Enough with the fairytales.

If Tosks are Slavic influenced, then Vlachs are even more so.

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Originally Posted by Ujku

But why tosk and ghegs look almost the same then ?????? My grandpa ( a Lab from corrush originaly ) is Isa boletinis look alike... Also when i was in prishtina 3 years ago with my aunt which was a guest of some people she took in her home in 99' , I don't think that i saw any difference between them (and people in prishtina in general ) and people from the south..

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And R1a Greek from Crete looks almost exactly same as a J2 Italian, because ydna is just a marker that represents a small part of genome and has no effect on phenotype.

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Originally Posted by Sorcelow

Any studies on the Sarakatsanoi?

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Not enough data to make conclusions at the moment. Most likely majority will be J + I

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

It's the very same clade as I2a1b-Din, so from Slavic origin. Enough with the fairytales.

If Tosks are Slavic influenced, then Vlachs are even more so.

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Aww you are such a scholar only that I2a1b came like 5 thousand years later.

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

It's the very same clade as I2a1b-Din, so from Slavic origin. Enough with the fairytales.

If Tosks are Slavic influenced, then Vlachs are even more so.

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Vlachs were basically shepherds/nomads throughout their history they have migrated from one place to another, they brought their paternal genetic lineage along in Albania when they established themselves in southern Albania hence why you got this unusually high number of I2a among southern Albos........This supposed massive slavic settlers leaving their genetic mark sounds overestimated for my taste, Vlachs theory however is far more plausible as Albania was indeed known for huge Vlach settlements.

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

Aww you are such a scholar only that I2a1b came like 5 thousand years later.

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I2a1b was never found in Greek Ancient remains, that's all I have to say.

Same with G, it's all bullshit. You are older than me, stop dreaming like a kid.

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Originally Posted by The Illyrian Warrior

Vlachs were basically shepherds/nomads throughout their history they have migrated from one place to another, they brought their paternal genetic lineage along in Albania when they established themselves in southern Albania hence why you got this unusually high number of I2a among southern Albos........This supposed massive slavic settlers leaving their genetic mark sounds overestimated for my taste, Vlachs theory however is far more plausible as Albania was indeed known for huge Vlach settlements.

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It just means Romanized/Hellenized Slavs left a big imprint rather than Proto-Slavs. But I agree, it is a possibility. Probably it is a reason for similar levels in Greece too.

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Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

It just means Romanized/Hellenized Slavs left a big imprint rather than Proto-Slavs. But I agree, it is a possibility. Probably it is a reason for similar levels in Greece too.

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I dont see why is it a problem if it is slavic?!lol seriously,lol This exact marker has produced Tesla. The arguably the greatest mind that ever lived, and Martin Luther, the greatest spirtual leader of western christianity. For a brand new infant marker you cant ask for much more than producing two world's greatest men:p

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Originally Posted by Drawing-slim

I dont see why is it a problem if it is slavic?!lol seriously,lol This exact marker has produced Tesla. The arguably the greatest mind that ever lived, and Martin Luther, the greatest spirtual leader of western christianity. For a brand new infant marker you cant ask for much more than producing two world's greatest men:p

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You are right. It isn't a problem. The great Max Von Sydow is also R1a. I'd rather be related him than some E-V13 Sali Berisha or J2 Laiko singer.

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Originally Posted by Drawing-slim

I dont see why is it a problem if it is slavic?!lol seriously,lol This exact marker has produced Tesla. The arguably the greatest mind that ever lived, and Martin Luther, the greatest spirtual leader of western christianity. For a brand new infant marker you cant ask for much more than producing two world's greatest men:p

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I'm possibly Slavic/Serbian maternally, who knows? Bride stealing was common among Ghegnian highlanders in the past. :D

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Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

I2a1b was never found in Greek Ancient remains, that's all I have to say.

Same with G, it's all bullshit. You are older than me, stop dreaming like a kid.

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Obviously you have a few loose screws in your head reflects some butthurtness.

Like saying you come from Nordics and Varangians projecting to Scandinavia - little insecure people. As if no one has seen you other than photos spammed all over the internet.

Well plenty of skeletons found in Sesklo and Franchthi

https://static-content.springer.com/..._Fig2_HTML.jpg