Pazyryk Scythian aDNA results (mtDNA)

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Originally Posted by Leto

Excuse me, have you taken a test? You must have some real Aryan DNA from the Andronovo. :) However, if you are not from Afghanistan, you must also be more South Asian-shifted than Afghans.

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I did but haven't gotten my results yet. On 23andMe, the DNA extraction phase just finished this morning and they are on the DNA analysis phase now. Results might be in in a month from now I'm guessing. I'm from Northwest Pakistan.

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Originally Posted by Mingle

I did but haven't gotten my results yet. On 23andMe, the DNA extraction phase just finished this morning and they are on the DNA analysis phase now. Results might be in in a month from now I'm guessing. I'm from Northwest Pakistan.

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Alright. Let's wait for 'em. By the way, are you dark like stereotypical Pakistanis?

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Originally Posted by Leto

Alright. Let's wait for 'em. By the way, are you dark like stereotypical Pakistanis?

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No. I'll show you my pic later when I get home.

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Originally Posted by Böri

Stalin replaced God for the baboon masses in the USSR once upon a time. Entire cities, factories, car brands were named after Father Stalin.
Soviet historiography gifted Scythians for Thou Father Stalin. Just to appear kind.
The same Stalinist school to this day still pretends Viking Rus' clan wasn't Viking (Germanic) but Balto-Slav!

It's funny how the civilized world kept on that Stalinist history revisionism and falsifications. They still insist all the pastoralist nomads between South Siberia and Crimea were all 'Iranic' ... In fact that's just crazy.

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Viking Rus wasn't Slavic, but Germanic for sure, but for sure they were the large minority among Slavs.
Also, monk Nestor in the "Primary Chronicles" is saying to us that Slavic and Finnic tribes first expelled Vikings when they tried to invade modern day West Russia, and then after they (Rus' tribe) lost, they were invited by Slavic and Finnic tribes to rule among them, becouse they were in many conflicts before it.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Alright. Let's wait for 'em. By the way, are you dark like stereotypical Pakistanis?

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He looks Azerbaijani tbh

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Originally Posted by Mingle

Tokharistan was used to refer to Bactria when it was Iranic speaking in the first millennium AD and the name far predates any Turkic expansion into Middle Asia, so I disagree with the latter part of your comment.

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The difference is that Tokharistan was just a region, not an ethnic name, its basically a Turkic word: Tokh "mountain" + ar "people", its the people of Togarmah, son of Gomer, one of the 24 Oghuz clans. Armenians, Georgians and Turks descended from this ancient guy.

https://i.imgur.com/4jUP6Sm.png

And how can Turks have migrated into Middle Asia in the late 1st millennium AD, when there were already Turks in Europe in the early 1st millenium AD? :confused::confused::confused:

Gedrosia K3

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Hazara @ 1.092248
2 Irula @ 4.759782
3 Kattunayakkan @ 5.122586
4 Nihali @ 6.114567
5 Madiga @ 8.526909
6 Chenchu @ 8.873101
7 Hallkipiki @ 9.133532
8 Mala @ 9.250433
9 Gond @ 10.722106
10 Kamsali @ 11.002162
11 Paniyas @ 11.521728
12 Bengali @ 11.555750
13 UP_Chamar @ 11.572104
14 Bhil @ 13.876436
15 Kallar @ 14.021095
16 Tharu @ 14.205913
17 Piramalai @ 14.480849
18 Kyrgyz @ 16.874592
19 Bhumij @ 17.202101
20 Kurumba @ 17.260006

Using 2 populations approximation:
..1 50% Nganasan +50% Tajik_Pomiri @ 0.000000
..6 50% Turkmen +50% Yukagir @ 0.425719
..8 50% Kyrgyz +50% Uzbek @ 0.431844
..9 50% Changapa +50% Kalash @ 0.485189
10 50% Changapa +50% Pashtun_Afghan @ 0.618841
12 50% UP_Brahmin +50% Yukagir @ 0.745615
14 50% Burusho +50% Yukagir @ 0.784907
16 50% Kyrgyz +50% UP_Caste @ 0.788417
17 50% GujaratiB +50% Yukagir @ 0.811810

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Altaian +25% Altaian +25% Chechen @ 0.000000 <---- !

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Originally Posted by Userius

Here's something I have to ask while hopefully not being offensive by doing so: Was there ever any real "Tengri" religion. The name is attested on some inscriptions, but was it ever really some supreme deity/ancestor that all Turkic people acknowledged to the same degree and that had specific rituals attached to it? It seems like the Tengriism mentioned today is the result of a lot of romanticism like many other such nostalgic revivals.

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Currently no evidence exists that Tengri (Täŋri) was some kind of a deity, let alone ‘religion’. It is not even clear if such notorious figures as Genghis khan believed in Tengri. ‘By the power of Eternal Heaven’ (Tengri) was used by the old Turks and later Mongols as an ultimatum, a statement indicating inevitability of fate, or coercing to acknowledge the inevitable. Tengri was a call to the heavens/sky. In medieval old Uighur documents, literary/religious works Tengri simply meant sky/heavens. Considering all of the above we can firmly attest that Christianity is in fact a religion of Tengri (our Father, who art in heaven). (NOT) Even cro-magnons had some kind of belief systems with an afterlife and likely called onto heavens. But to call their beliefs and practices as ‘religion’ would be farfetched.

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Originally Posted by Yaglakar

Currently no evidence exists that Tengri (Täŋri) was some kind of a deity, let alone ‘religion’. It is not even clear if such notorious figures as Genghis khan believed in Tengri. ‘By the power of Eternal Heaven’ (Tengri) was used by the old Turks and later Mongols as an ultimatum, a statement indicating inevitability of fate, or coercing to acknowledge the inevitable. Tengri was a call to the heavens/sky. In medieval old Uighur documents, literary/religious works Tengri simply meant sky/heavens. Considering all of the above we can firmly attest that Christianity is in fact a religion of Tengri (our Father, who art in heaven). (NOT) Even cro-magnons had some kind of belief systems with an afterlife and likely called onto heavens. But to call their beliefs and practices as ‘religion’ would be farfetched.

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Sky God (Gök Tengri) was referred to as one God.
If it was simply nature or universe, that wouldn't be something countable.

Ibn Fadlan reports during his journey to Bulgar, while travelling lands of Oğuz Turks somewhere around north-east of Caspian.


Ibn Fadlān and the Land of Darkness
Arab Travellers in the Far North
chapter about Oghuz Turks

https://i.hizliresim.com/JQ4k0Y.jpg
...
https://i.hizliresim.com/76bMEY.jpg

That's around 920 or 921 when the Oghuz weren't Muslims.

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Originally Posted by Böri

Sky God (Gök Tengri) was referred to as one God.
If it was simply nature or universe, that wouldn't be something countable.

Ibn Fadlan reports during his journey to Bulgar, while travelling lands of Oğuz Turks somewhere around north-east of Caspian.


Ibn Fadlān and the Land of Darkness
Arab Travellers in the Far North
chapter about Oghuz Turks

https://i.hizliresim.com/JQ4k0Y.jpg
...
https://i.hizliresim.com/76bMEY.jpg

In 920's the Oghuz weren't Muslims.

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'One' god is even more far fetched than considering Tengri a deity (among others) which in itself is far fetched. There is no 'reliable' evidence from the Turkic runes or Uighur documents or even with later Mongol conquests that 'Tengri' was some kind of a 'deity'. They did not have to be Muslims, they could have adopted notions and understanding from neighboring 'monotheistic' populations. 10th century is pretty late and these tribes were out of the 'core land'.