Another one that gets Portuguese first, and you're Galician! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaita
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Another one that gets Portuguese first, and you're Galician! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaita
It's rather obvious now that Spaniard and Portuguese are very similar overall genetically. The differences must be very subtle. Nothing to be upset about Islander.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantic Islander
Yeah, but I get Murcia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxman
Hmmm that is rather far from Portugal but it probably just relates to the fact like I mentioned above that all Iberians are very similar to each other genetically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantic Islander
Yeah, but to Jaxman's point, the Iberian results are all pretty similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantic Islander
Just imagine a line drawn between the two results, so draw a line from Orkney to Galicia for example and make a mark 17% or so of the way along, and it'll give you some idea. Or between southwest England and Austria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor2009
Well I'm not actually upset, :P, I'm still closer to Portuguese than you or Alex Delarge are:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaita
Me
1 Spanish_Murcia 1.58
2 Portuguese 2.43
Alex
1 Portuguese 2.47
2 Spanish_Extremadura 3.4
You
1 Portuguese 3.82
2 Spanish_Galicia 4.07
In that case, the results make a bit more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson
Drawing a line between Orkney and Galicia, and marking 17% puts me right in the middle of Scotland.
Most of the Orcadian + something else results also put me in Scotland or Northern England.
The other results place me somewhere around Northern France, near Normandy.
That's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaita
Spanish_Murcia averages in K13 are 40.15 9.33 26.12 2.21 14.57 2.92 0.21 0.88 0.67 0.60 0.11 1.44 0.78
Portuguese averages are 38.54 11.51 25.32 2.43 13.90 3.63 0.42 0.14 0.25 0.44 0.67 1.72 1.04
The total combined difference is something like 8,76.
For Southeast English vs Southwest English it's 8,53 and Finnish vs East Finnish it's 10,97, so differences between Iberians are in line with those between different parts of a single country. Spanish Basques might stand out if they are similar to the French ones.
Thor, you can also see it this way:
You say about 75% English/Irish and 25% German.
The oracle gets the English component right, but happens to make your second component lower, but adjusts by putting it further to the south/east.
I don't think 83.8% Southwest_English + 16.2% Austrian, are too different in terms of admixture result of 75% English + 25% German
When I look at the spreadsheet for K13:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3...w1Q2dDNDg/edit
Turkmen got ~10% Siberian.
Yakut got 74% Siberian.
Uygur got 20% Siberian.
Turks/Turkey got 3.6%.
Eastern-Finns, got 8.6%.
Sooo... Finns are actually more Turkic than Turks? :D
Pima have 5,18% Siberian and North Amerindians 21,97%.
If Siberian is Turkic marker, looks like North America was first colonized by ancient Turks.:icon_yes:
Actually in a sense, it was.
I think the most common theory about the origin of the native americans, is that they came from Siberian asians, aka Turkic people.
We can assume all Turkics have Siberian admixture, but frankly I've never heard of all Siberian admixture being Turkic. Looks like Pan-Turanism just got on a whole new level.:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by drogin
Turkic languages are very young and their proto-Altaic ancestor diverged around 10,000 years ago from other Eurasiatic languages such as Uralic and Indo-European for instance (see Pagel et al). All much younger than the initial colonisation of the Americas so Native Americans aren't closely related to Turks neither by ancestry nor linguistically (except maybe some North Americans.Quote:
Originally Posted by drogin
Well depends how you define Turkic. I do realize the most correct definition is probably a Turkic language speaker. But if that's the case then I and another Norwegian can move to Turkey, and have a 100% Norwegian kid which speaks Turkish as his mother tongue, and our kid would be Turkic by definition. Which sounds a bit wrong to my ear, as Turkic also applies a sense of ethnic origin to me, personally.
And the Turkic language and the origin of the Turks, are Altaic/Siberian. Everyone else is just Turkified local populations...meaning Turks for instance, are mostly just Turkified Greeks.
For reference, my known ancestry is: ~47% Irish, ~28% Colonial American, 12.5% Swedish, 12.5% Luxemburgian
Admix Results (sorted):
1 North_Atlantic 47.17
2 Baltic 24.77
3 West_Med 15.53
4 West_Asian 7.7
5 Amerindian 1.96
6 East_Med 1.36
7 South_Asian 0.64
8 Northeast_African 0.61
9 Siberian 0.26
Single Population Sharing:
1 Dutch 4.27
2 German 5.3
3 Orcadian 5.43
4 Irish 5.62
5 Southeast_English 5.8
6 Southwest_English 6.02
7 Danish 6.35
8 West_Scottish 6.63
9 Norwegian 7.47
10 Swedish 8.59
11 French 12.06
12 North_Swedish 13.89
13 Austrian 15.43
14 Hungarian 16.4
15 Spanish_Cataluna 19
16 Southwest_French 19.39
17 Spanish_Galicia 20.14
18 Spanish_Cantabria 20.16
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 20.17
20 Portuguese 20.63
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1) 91.7% Dutch + 8.3% French_Basque @ 3.57
2) 89.6% Dutch + 10.4% Southwest_French @ 3.65
3) 95.7% Dutch + 4.3% Sardinian @ 3.7
4) 85.2% Irish + 14.8% Romanian @ 3.7
5) 86.7% Irish + 13.3% Bulgarian @ 3.71
6) 83.1% Southwest_English + 16.9% Ukrainian_West @ 3.72
7) 90.5% Dutch + 9.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.73
8) 83.6% Irish + 16.4% Serbian @ 3.76
9) 92.2% Dutch + 7.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.78
10) 87.8% Southwest_English + 12.2% Erzya @ 3.79
11) 91.6% Dutch + 8.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.79
12) 83.7% Southwest_English + 16.3% Ukrainian @ 3.8
13) 92.1% Dutch + 7.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.82
14) 98.3% Dutch + 1.7% Mayan @ 3.83
15) 85.9% Southwest_English + 14.1% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 3.84
16) 85.6% Southwest_English + 14.4% Russian @ 3.84
17) 79.6% Irish + 20.4% Hungarian @ 3.87
18) 96.6% Dutch + 3.4% Balkar @ 3.87
19) 98.4% Dutch + 1.6% Pima @ 3.87
20) 92.4% Dutch + 7.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.87
4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 2 populations approximation:
1) 50% German +50% Irish @ 4.496
2) 50% German +50% Southwest_English @ 4.598
3) 50% Dutch +50% Dutch @ 4.678
4) 50% Dutch +50% Southwest_English @ 4.718
5) 50% Dutch +50% Irish @ 4.789
6) 50% German +50% Orcadian @ 4.866
7) 50% German +50% West_Scottish @ 4.883
8) 50% Dutch +50% Orcadian @ 4.951
9) 50% Dutch +50% German @ 5.125
10) 50% Dutch +50% Southeast_English @ 5.135
Using 3 populations approximation:
1) 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.223
2) 50% Swedish +25% Irish +25% Southwest_French @ 4.250
3) 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.331
4) 50% Norwegian +25% Irish +25% Southwest_French @ 4.392
5) 50% Dutch +25% German +25% Southwest_English @ 4.392
6) 50% Dutch +25% Dutch +25% Southwest_English @ 4.431
7) 50% German +25% Irish +25% Southwest_English @ 4.439
8) 50% Irish +25% Hungarian +25% Southwest_English @ 4.473
9) 50% Irish +25% Austrian +25% Southwest_English @ 4.478
10) 50% Dutch +25% German +25% Irish @ 4.481
Using 4 populations approximation:
1) French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.223
2) Irish + Southwest_French + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.250
3) French_Basque + Irish + Ukrainian_Northeast + West_Scottish @ 4.261
4) Irish + Norwegian + Southwest_French + Swedish @ 4.278
5) French_Basque + Ukrainian_Northeast + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.331
6) Irish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Southwest_French @ 4.392
7) Dutch + Dutch + German + Southwest_English @ 4.392
8) Dutch + German + Irish + Southwest_English @ 4.417
9) Dutch + Dutch + Dutch + Southwest_English @ 4.431
10) German + German + Irish + Southwest_English @ 4.439
11) Hungarian + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 4.473
12) Austrian + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 4.478
13) Dutch + Dutch + German + Irish @ 4.481
14) Southwest_French + Swedish + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 4.484
15) German + German + Irish + Irish @ 4.496
16) Irish + Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.513
17) Dutch + German + Irish + Irish @ 4.519
18) Hungarian + Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 4.531
19) Dutch + German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 4.533
20) Irish + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish @ 4.536
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 48.27
2 North_Atlantic 25.81
3 West_Med 11.7
4 West_Asian 5.42
5 East_Med 3.87
6 Red_Sea 1.43
7 East_Asian 1.3
8 Siberian 1.29
9 Oceanian 0.82
10 Amerindian 0.1
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Russian 2.91
2 Ukrainian_Northeast 5.12
3 Ukrainian 5.16
4 Belorussian 5.42
5 Ukrainian_West 6.36
6 Polish 7.53
7 Lithuanian 7.69
8 Kargopol_Russian 7.86
9 Estonian 9.38
10 Erzya 9.61
11 East_Finnish 11.89
12 Finnish 11.91
13 Southwest_Finnish 13.78
14 Hungarian 16.87
15 Austrian 18.29
16 North_Swedish 20.11
17 Serbian 21.76
18 Chuvash 24.28
19 Swedish 25.13
20 Romanian 25.36
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.3% Russian + 13.7% Lithuanian @ 2.67
2 82.9% Russian + 17.1% Belorussian @ 2.74
3 95.8% Russian + 4.2% Estonian @ 2.88
4 99.8% Russian + 0.2% Dai @ 2.9
5 99.9% Russian + 0.1% Papuan @ 2.91
6 99.9% Russian + 0.1% Vietnamese @ 2.91
7 99.9% Russian + 0.1% NAN_Melanesian @ 2.91
8 99.2% Russian + 0.8% Ukrainian @ 2.91
9 100% Russian + 0% Cambodian @ 2.91
10 100% Russian + 0% Malay @ 2.91
11 100% Russian + 0% Abhkasian @ 2.91
12 100% Russian + 0% Adygei @ 2.91
13 100% Russian + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.91
14 100% Russian + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 2.91
15 100% Russian + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 2.91
16 100% Russian + 0% Aghan_Hazara @ 2.91
17 100% Russian + 0% Algerian @ 2.91
18 100% Russian + 0% Altaian @ 2.91
19 100% Russian + 0% Armenian @ 2.91
20 100% Russian + 0% Ashkenazi @ 2.91
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.7% German + 26.3% Ashkenazi @ 2.58
2 61.5% Danish + 38.5% Greek @ 2.81
3 64.7% Southeast_English + 35.3% Greek @ 2.89
4 67.8% Dutch + 32.2% Ashkenazi @ 2.89
5 70.7% German + 29.3% Greek @ 2.89
My mom's:
Pct. Calc. Option 1
1 Southeast_English 82.01%
2 Sardinian 6.79%
3 Bulgarian 4.98%
4 Greek 3.76%
5 Kalash 2.41%
6 Turkmen 0.02%
7 Turkish 0.01%
8 Romanian 0.01%
9 Ashkenazi 0.01%
10 Samaritan 0.00%
Must be a gypsy ancestor as she has no known Kalash or Bulgarian.
My mum's results:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 54.04
2 Baltic 24.4
3 West_Med 9.72
4 West_Asian 8.09
5 East_Med 1.88
6 Amerindian 1.06
7 South_Asian 0.42
8 Siberian 0.26
9 Northeast_African 0.05
10 Sub-Saharan 0.05
11 Oceanian 0.03
Updated sheet of K13 averages, including paleolithic Siberian Mal'ta and mesolithic Iberian La Braņa hunter-gatherers, and new populations like Greeks from Thessaly and Italians from Abruzzo. Polako sent these to Gedmatch and they should appear in Oracle results once the server gets fixed.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ext=true#gid=0
Two clustering trees based on the averages:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...1.png~original
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...1.png~original
Note how East Germans and North Germans cluster with clearly different populations. That's caused by East Germans being clearly more eastern (more Baltic, less North Atlantic) and southern (more mediterranean) than North Germans. They are southern-shifted in comparison to the Poles too, so it's unlikely that this is caused by recent Slavic admixture.
Cool! Looks like Dutch is now divided in North&South Dutch and(as expected) the Northern Dutch are closer to Northern Germans and Danes, the Southern Dutch are closer to Western Germans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argang
Yeah. Both South Dutch and West Germans also seem to pull away from their northern compatriots towards the French so here genetics correlates with geography, perhaps better than in the case of East Germans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hevo
The Dutch were clustering with the Danes, perhaps most were North Dutch. I think this makes it better to analyse now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hevo
Also the Austrians and Hungarians used to be in their own wee group. Now that East Germany is there, it groups Austria with East Germany.
North Atlantic Top 20
West_Scottish 53.18
French_Basque 52.62
Irish 52.23
Southwest_English 51.98
Orcadian 51.33
Norwegian 51.15
Southeast_English 50.52
North_Dutch 50.45
Danish 50.04
Swedish 48.53
North_German 47.17
South_Dutch 44.59
North_Swedish 44.52
Spanish_Aragon 43.83
West_German 43.15
French 42.60
Southwest_French 42.35
Spanish_Cantabria 41.80
Spanish_Cataluna 41.36
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 41.09
Baltic Top 20
Lithuanian 53.89
Estonian 50.58
Erzya 50.51
East_Finnish 49.54
Belorussian 49.40
Estonian_Polish 49.11
Russian_Smolensk 48.47
Kargopol_Russian 48.36
Russian_Voronez 48.35
Russian_Kursk 48.34
Finnish 47.69
Ukrainian_Belgorod 47.29
Polish 45.49
Russian_Orel 44.94
La_Brana-1 44.13
Southwest_Finnish 43.46
Chuvash 43.07
Mari 42.21
South_Polish 42.03
Ukrainian_Lviv 41.85
West Med Top 20
Sardinian 51.87
French_Basque 35.86
Southwest_French 30.54
Spanish_Aragon 29.79
Spanish_Cantabria 29.27
Spanish_Andalucia 29.07
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 28.52
Spanish_Valencia 27.71
Spanish_Extremadura 26.84
Spanish_Galicia 26.23
Spanish_Murcia 26.12
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 26.09
Spanish_Cataluna 25.78
North_Italian 25.76
Moroccan 25.34
Portuguese 25.32
Mozabite_Berber 24.17
Tuscan 23.79
Algerian_Jewish 22.86
South_Italian 22.77
East Med Top 20
Yemenite_Jewish 52.36
Lebanese_Druze 48.65
Lebanese_Christian 47.26
Samaritan 45.52
Palestinian 43.55
Saudi 42.83
Kurdish_Jewish 41.89
Cyprian 41.08
Jordanian 40.75
Lebanese_Muslim 39.73
Assyrian 39.64
Tunisian_Jewish 39.64
Egyptian 39.57
Libyan_Jewish 38.93
Italian_Jewish 38.45
Bedouin 38.16
Syrian 37.82
Algerian_Jewish 37.03
Sephardic_Jewish 36.91
Georgian_Jewish 36.59
The clustering you got for La Braņa with the old populations didn't change too much in these trees, he still goes closest to populations around northern Baltic Sea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
All British islander groups are closer to the northern continental germanics than West Germans and South Dutch are. Granted, a Welsh sample is missing, but I think it wouldn't behave differently.
Polako suggested that the main branches in the first tree represent a division between Mal'ta (ANE)-influenced West Eurasians and those (usually heavy in Middle Eastern-like Neolithic farmer ancestry) who don't have significant ANE.
Based on that, I'd say that the division visible in the second tree represents a split between those who have significant Western European hunter-gatherer (La Braņa-like) ancestry and those (MENA, East Med and Caucasus) populations who lack it. Iberians, Basques and certain Italians are affiliated with more northern populations (and are closer to La Braņa) rather than with the wider Mediterranean region in the second tree, which I think supports the idea.
NW Europe. :) Official, every other area now omitted.
Edit: I reckon the Swiss would fit in nicely also.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psb94bdc6f.jpg
Makes sense, very interesting.
Mine from South- and Southwest-Germany:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 39.98
2 Baltic 23
3 West_Med 15.93
4 East_Med 12.16
5 West_Asian 5.09
6 Oceanian 1.28
7 Siberian 1.03
8 South_Asian 0.58
9 Red_Sea 0.58
10 Amerindian 0.2
11 Northeast_African 0.16
Fits pretty good with West-German, I seem to be a little bit more east-med though.
Reupped the joining trees, they changed slightly. For example, in the second tree MA-1 is now closer to Volga populations, and North Italians and Tuscans cluster no longer with Iberians but with Greeks and South Italians/Sicilians.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...2.png~original
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...3.png~original
Will be interesting to see how close I am to "La_Brana 1" once the updated calc is up. Considering I'm one of the individuals used for the north_Swedish group in eurogenes. Will also be interesting to compare him with the Saami and half Saami gedmatch relatives I got.
You should be pretty close to La Braņa, especially in the K13 calculator. Saami could get close too, though probably more in IBS sharing than in K13. They aren't too dissimilar to Komi which Polako said was turning out most similar to MA-1 and La Braņa in his set.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazik
K13 for the Komi looks like this, it's like the Saami results you posted but with 1/3 of the Siberian turned into West Asian.
North Atlantic 21.77
Baltic 45.01
West Med 2.85
West Asian 8.42
East Med 0.03
South Asian 1.66
East Asian 0.08
Siberian 15.53
Amerindian 4.04
Northeast African 0.56
Sub-saharan 0.05
Inferred the positions of my family members on an MDS plot, i think made by Mfa, or at least shared by him. I'm east of the SE English, nw of south Dutch/west German and southwest of north German. My father is between SE English and north German, or south-east of the Irish/Scots/Orcadians. My grandfather is adjacent to the north Dutch/Danes/north Germans. My grandmother is pretty much on top of the SW-English. My mother is directly north/northwest of the south Dutch. My aunt is just south of the SE English.
It's interesting with these extra splits in the populations. I remember for example there was a study that found a difference between the north and south Dutch, which is played out here too. Also you can clearly see the English are slightly French-influenced compared to other British Islanders, although maybe some samples from central and eastern areas might fill that gap.
La Brana still looks fairly far away from even far northern Europeans on the MDS plot, but it's interesting that he readily clusters with some in a dendrogram.
The clustering is probably affected by variation that isn't expressed in a 2d plot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson
That would make sense - you know more about it than me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argang
It seems to be mostly about his Baltic/North Atlantic ratio. In K15 clustering could change again, because his North Sea, Atlantic and Baltic are all within 20-25% range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson
Some of my results :) Some of the population distances seem quite small.
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.99
2 Baltic 24.47
3 West_Med 12.01
4 West_Asian 7.27
5 East_Med 3.02
6 Oceanian 0.83
7 Red_Sea 0.77
8 Siberian 0.64
9 South_Asian 0.52
10 Amerindian 0.25
11 Sub-Saharan 0.23
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Orcadian 2.68
2 Irish 2.91
3 Danish 2.99
4 Dutch 3.04
5 West_Scottish 3.64
6 Southeast_English 3.84
7 Southwest_English 4.48
8 German 5.06
9 Norwegian 5.71
10 Swedish 6.93
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 95.7% Orcadian + 4.3% Lezgin @ 1.39
2 95.7% Orcadian + 4.3% Chechen @ 1.41
3 65.8% Irish + 34.2% German @ 1.45
4 59.3% West_Scottish + 40.7% German @ 1.48
5 96.1% Orcadian + 3.9% Adygei @ 1.51
6 96.1% Orcadian + 3.9% North_Ossetian @ 1.51
7 96.5% Orcadian + 3.5% Georgian @ 1.52
8 90.3% Irish + 9.7% Serbian @ 1.54
9 96.7% Orcadian + 3.3% Abhkasian @ 1.54
10 87.1% Irish + 12.9% Austrian @ 1.57
Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.66
2 Baltic 25.29
3 West_Med 12.42
4 West_Asian 7.51
5 East_Med 3.12
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 3.046
2 Orcadian @ 3.295
3 Danish @ 3.647
4 West_Scottish @ 3.860
5 Dutch @ 4.295
6 Southeast_English @ 4.793
7 Southwest_English @ 5.154
8 Norwegian @ 6.540
9 German @ 7.048
10 Swedish @ 8.052
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 German + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.412
2 German + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.433
3 German + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.511
4 German + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.569
5 German + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.605
6 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.608
7 Danish + German + Irish + Irish @ 2.626
8 German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.641
9 Danish + German + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.657
10 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.666