Ford's (Bosnian Serb) autosomal results

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Originally Posted by Nato

Lmao Jana is weird person. She teached me a lot about genetics though, and gave me good recommendations which test to try.

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I read some of her post, she knows more history than genetics, but history can be made into propaganda where genetics can not.

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

Wallachia just as much. Not with the same Balkan regions though.

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Most closest Balkan populations to Moldavians (both from today RM, and Moldova region from Romania) are Western Balkanites, Serbs, Bosnians and Croatians. Wallachians are close to Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks. Since Moldavians are half Slavs, half Balkanites, this make sense.

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Originally Posted by Nato

We don't cluster anywhere near Bulgarians lmao, much closer to Western Slavs. There is no south slavic genetics man.

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That's normal.
Bulgarians are the only Slavs that crossed Romania during migration.
The others went round it.

Western Balkan Slavs migrated around the Northern Carpathians, and entered Pannonia in Slovakia (like the Mongols did).
That's why they're closer to (South) Western Slavs, but also have some similarities with the Moldovans.

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Originally Posted by Cumansky

I read some of her post, she knows more history than genetics, but history can be made into propaganda where genetics can not.

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Wouldn't agree about that though. It's correct Croats have very low Germanic DNA. It was just a political propaganda during WW2 because NDH allied with Germans, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Cumansky

There was Saxons with origin in Saxony living in Kingdom of Hungary

I even seen Saxon church from somewhere in Yugoslavia in this forum posted

The reality a lot of Balkaners could assimilate Saxons in middle age, same with my father family and they did. I have some low Germanic admixture in my DNA 14.4%. 6.4% is show as Saxony Germany, the other 8% Scandinavian (mother side is more likely bulk of Scandinavian)

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There are some Serbs which carry R1b-U106 and I2-M223 and they are mostly from areas where Saxon miners lived in middle age (Kosovo, Kopaonik).
One Serb from near Kopaonik who carry I2-M223 have matches in Germany in y dna.
Dick's haplogroup probably came with Saxon miners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons_in_medieval_Serbia

Saxon church is in one village on Kopaonik mountain in Serbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopaonik

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Originally Posted by El_Moldovano

Most closest Balkan populations to Moldavians (both from today RM, and Moldova region from Romania) are Western Balkanites, Serbs, Bosnians and Croatians. Wallachians are close to Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks. Since Moldavians are half Slavs, half Balkanites, this make sense.

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Sorry, you skip your cousins Western and Southern Ukrainians, Eastern Hungarians

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Originally Posted by Cumansky

Sorry, you skip your cousins Western and Southern Ukrainians, Eastern Hungarians

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I speak about genetical conection with Balkan Slavs, and most closest to us are Western Balkan Slavs. Of course biggest part of Slavic influence is from Ruthenians (aka today Ukrainians), especially the Western ones, some Slavic DNA is from Hungarians (Csango people).

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Originally Posted by Nato

Wouldn't agree about that though. It's correct Croats have very low Germanic DNA. It was just a political propaganda during WW2 because NDH allied with Germans, nothing more.

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No some Croats from Pannonia have high Germanic, higher in Slovenia most places

I can show some genetic data result if you want

Poles like me are low Germanic, LukaszM I seen in other forum is only Pole who is seen with lower Germanic than me couple %. There is also Krabat like Peterski 40% Germanic..

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Originally Posted by Cumansky

No some Croats from Pannonia have high Germanic, higher in Slovenia most places

I can show some genetic data result if you want

Poles like me are low Germanic, LukaszM I seen in other forum is only Pole who is seen with lower Germanic than me couple %. There is also Krabat like Peterski 40% Germanic..

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I wasn't speaking about northern Croats but Croats in general. wtf is Krabat, are you trolling or something ? Funny how strongly Germanic Peterski is, he don't like Germans very much.

To put it short: Slovenes, North Croats : Slavic + German + Illyrian

rest of Croats (also Bosniaks, Bosnian and Croatian Serbs) : Slavic + Illyrian

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Originally Posted by El_Moldovano

I speak about genetical conection with Balkan Slavs, and most closest to us are Western Balkan Slavs. Of course biggest part of Slavic influence is from Ruthenians (aka today Ukrainians), especially the Western ones, some Slavic DNA is from Hungarians (Csango people).

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Vlachs, Saxons, Slavs, Jews maybe some other stuff but I don't want offend your nationalism too much

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Originally Posted by Nato

I wasn't speaking about northern Croats but Croats in general. wtf is Krabat, are you trolling or something ? Funny how strongly Germanic Peterski is, he don't like Germans very much.

To put it short: Slovenes, North Croats : Slavic + German + Illyrian

rest of Croats: Slavic + Illyrian

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Some islanders probably have Greeko-Roman influence.

Some Dalmatian islands have high J2.

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Originally Posted by Pribislav

Some islanders probably have Greeko-Roman influence.

Some Dalmatian islands have high J2.

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Yeah, probably. Some chink is in there too lol

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Originally Posted by Cumansky

No some Croats from Pannonia have high Germanic, higher in Slovenia most places

I can show some genetic data result if you want

Poles like me are low Germanic, LukaszM I seen in other forum is only Pole who is seen with lower Germanic than me couple %. There is also Krabat like Peterski 40% Germanic..

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in which test do you see how much % German is anyone? Also, did you run me on your calculator?

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Originally Posted by Cumansky

I was supposed to run her in my calculator, then she got banned from anthrogenica for argue with me that she 65% Slavic and the rest Balkan. She was complaining that Croatians have 0% Germanic admixture and they ban her because she was only one out of around 50 users I ran in my calculators that was complaining and trying undermine my work

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Croats are around 65% Slav though. Kind of weird that they banned her for that. And IIRC you grouped Croats together with Albos and Greeks under some "Mediterranean" category when they are genetically very distant so it made sense for her to object to it. She wasn't the only user to object to it, but she was the only one that argued with you.

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Originally Posted by Nato

I wasn't speaking about northern Croats but Croats in general. wtf is Krabat, are you trolling or something ? Funny how strongly Germanic Peterski is, he don't like Germans very much.

To put it short: Slovenes, North Croats : Slavic + German + Illyrian

rest of Croats (also Bosniaks, Bosnian and Croatian Serbs) : Slavic + Illyrian

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I have the same question. Maybe he means this https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Crabat :icon_lol:

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Originally Posted by Nato

I wasn't speaking about northern Croats but Croats in general. wtf is Krabat, are you trolling or something ? Funny how strongly Germanic Peterski is, he don't like Germans very much.

To put it short: Slovenes, North Croats : Slavic + German + Illyrian

rest of Croats (also Bosniaks, Bosnian and Croatian Serbs) : Slavic + Illyrian

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I would replace Illyrian with "Southern European/Balkan", North Croat with "Northwest Croat" (Slavonians are mostly of Bosnian origin if I'm not mistaken), and add Hungarians to that first row. Otherwise, it seems accurate.

I don't think Poles are "strongly Germanic". They're still easily closer to East Slavs than to the easternmost Germans. Maybe some southern Poles are an exception to this.

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Originally Posted by Mingle

I would replace Illyrian with "Southern European/Balkan", North Croat with "Northwest Croat" (Slavonians are mostly of Bosnian origin if I'm not mistaken), and add Hungarians to that first row. Otherwise, it seems accurate.

I don't think Poles are "strongly Germanic". They're still easily closer to East Slavs than to the easternmost Germans. Maybe some southern Poles are an exception to this.

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Peterski is western Pole iirc

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Originally Posted by Nato

Peterski is western Pole iirc

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Western Poles are closer to East Slavs than they are to East Germans. They're close enough to form a single cluster.

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Originally Posted by Nato

Yeah, probably. Some chink is in there too lol

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These places have the highest J2 in Croatia.
- Island Pašman 16,6%
- Island Cres 14,1%
- Island Krk 10,8%
- Island Ugljan 10,2%
- Osijek 10,2%

Posted by Jana https://www.forum.hr/showpost.php?p=...postcount=3853

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Originally Posted by Cumansky

Vlachs, Saxons, Slavs, Jews maybe some other stuff but I don't want offend your nationalism too much

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Nationalist? Where? Under word Balkanites I mean of course Vlach people. Here came and other people from Balkans under pressure of Ottomans, especially many Serbs. Saxons was mostly urban population, their presence was big from XIVth to XVIth centuries, but big impact on local population in terms of genetics I don't know if they had, they don't really loved to mix. Their influence is seen in local architecture, wich is very big, and they introduced here viticulture. Most of the Jews came here in the last 200-250 years, from Poland and Russia/Ukraine. After WW2, they are very few here, impact on local genetics is very minimal, more minimal than Saxons. Ruthenians and Hungarians (Csango) was biggest minorites who lived here.

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Originally Posted by El_Moldovano

Most closest Balkan populations to Moldavians (both from today RM, and Moldova region from Romania) are Western Balkanites, Serbs, Bosnians and Croatians. Wallachians are close to Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks. Since Moldavians are half Slavs, half Balkanites, this make sense.

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I would agree with this approximation: half Balkanites, half Slavs.

But Romanians are not necessarily further from Western Balkans than Moldovans, see this chart published in a PLOS One paper last year:

South Moldovans: Md-K, North Moldovans: Md-S, Romanians: Ro, Serbs: Se, Croats: Cr, Bosnians: Bo
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...002&type=large

How sampling is done still affects the results a lot.

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

I would agree with this approximation: half Balkanites, half Slavs.

But Romanians are not necessarily further from Western Balkans than Moldovans, see this chart published in a PLOS One paper last year:

South Moldovans: Md-K, North Moldovans: Md-S, Romanians: Ro, Serbs: Se, Croats: Cr, Bosnians: Bo
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...002&type=large

How sampling is done still affects the results a lot.

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this looks like Y DNA clustering

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Originally Posted by Nato

this looks like Y DNA clustering

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that's what it is

please don't give me the bullshit that autosomal DNA clusterings are more valid.

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

that's what it is

please don't give me the bullshit that autosomal DNA clusterings are more valid.

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They are.

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

that's what it is

please don't give me the bullshit that autosomal DNA clusterings are more valid.

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Lmao ofcourse they are. Y dna tells no more than 1% of your ancestry dude

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Originally Posted by Nato

Lmao ofcourse they are. Y dna tells no more than 1% of your ancestry dude

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Dude, you have no idea what you talking about.
Y chromosome is the only part of the DNA that gets passed fully from the male parent to the male child. All the rest of the DNA is a mishmash from both parents. This is the reason why we can build extremely precise phylogenetic trees on Y-DNA, and we cannot do the same with autosomal DNA.

Clusterings you get with autosomal DNA are a shit method for studying ancestry, compared to the clades of the phylogenetic tree. Autosomal DNA can only tell whether populations have acquired similar mutations. That's it. No deep ancestry can be assessed with it.

Ydna clustering is odd. There’s a lot of people that wouldn’t even cluster to their respective ethnicities

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Originally Posted by Nato

Lmao ofcourse they are. Y dna tells no more than 1% of your ancestry dude

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It’s good for us balkaners to find out which tribe/clan our ancestors belonged to. As for other euros it dosnt really matter.

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

Dude, you have no idea what you talking about.
Y chromosome is the only part of the DNA that gets passed fully from the male parent to the male child. All the rest of the DNA is a mishmash from both parents. This is the reason why we can build extremely precise phylogenetic trees on Y-DNA, and we cannot do the same with autosomal DNA.

Clusterings you get with autosomal DNA are a shit method for studying ancestry, compared to the clades of the phylogenetic tree. Autosomal DNA can only tell whether populations have acquired similar mutations. That's it. No deep ancestry can be assessed with it.

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Completely wrong. But I guess you have no clue about genetics. According to your retarded views I would cluster with Dutch and Germans and Dick would cluster with Scandinavians.
Autosomal is your entire ancestry, it shows what you are made of and which populations are similar to you.

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Originally Posted by Dick

It’s good for us balkaners to find out which tribe/clan our ancestors belonged to. As for other euros it dosnt really matter.

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I believe it will be the same as we get more data and genealogical info, it's possible on Balkans as most people still know their tribe/clan allegation.

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Originally Posted by Dick

Ydna clustering is odd. There’s a lot of people that wouldn’t even cluster to their respective ethnicities

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Clusterings are bad with both ydna and adna, for different reasons.
YDNA clades are solid though.

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Originally Posted by Dick

Ydna clustering is odd. There’s a lot of people that wouldn’t even cluster to their respective ethnicities

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His countryman Daco Roman would cluster with Kosovo on tha map lmao, just because he is E-V13, even though his Romanian side is for sure different from Albanians.

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Originally Posted by Nato

His countryman Daco Roman would cluster with Kosovo on tha map lmao, just because he is E-V13, even though his Romanian side is for sure different from Albanians.

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Then you go deeper in the tree, until it branches out.
There nothing more solid in ancestry than YDNA clades. No guesswork there.

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

Then you go deeper in the tree, until it branches out.
There nothing more solid in ancestry than YDNA clades. No guesswork there.

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Looks like you're coping with the fact Romanians and Moldovans are genetically different people.

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Originally Posted by Not a Cop

I believe it will be the same as we get more data and genealogical info, it's possible on Balkans as most people still know their tribe/clan allegation.

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Not in my case. I don’t belong to any clan but I kinda knew this before I did a ydna test

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Originally Posted by Nato

Looks like you're coping with the fact Romanians and Moldovans are genetically different people.

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Any subgroup of one ethnicity is somewhat different from another, what are you talking about?

Btw, the PLOS One paper I talked about earlier, found no significant differences between Romanians and Moldovans. But also no significant differences between Romanians and Moldovans (grouped together) and Balkanites, and no significant difference between Moldovans and East Slavs living nearby Moldova :D

All these local differences are small, whether some like it or not.

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

Any subgroup of one ethnicity is somewhat different from another, what are you talking about?

Btw, the PLOS One paper I talked about earlier, found no significant differences between Romanians and Moldovans. But also no significant differences between Romanians and Moldovans (grouped together) and Balkanites, and no significant difference between Moldovans and East Slavs living nearby Moldova :D

All these local differences are small, whether some like it or not.

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ydna is irrelevant, keep trolling dude. there's big gap between Romania and Moldova on PCA charts, average Bosnian is closer to Moldovans than Wallachians are. You're just trying to distort the facts to fit your agenda.

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Originally Posted by Nato

ydna is irrelevant, keep trolling dude. there's big gap between Romania and Moldova on PCA charts, average Bosnian is closer to Moldovans than Wallachians are. You're just trying to distort the facts to fit your agenda.

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Why is ydna irrelevant for studying ancestry?
Can you formulate an intelligent argument?

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

Why is ydna irrelevant for studying ancestry?
Can you formulate an intelligent argument?

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It shows only your direct male ancestor and nothing else, dumbass. American nigger with slave owner ydna will cluster with Brits on Ydna charts lmao. On autosomal that will never happen because it covers entire genome.

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Originally Posted by Nato

It shows only your direct male ancestor and nothing else, dumbass. American nigger with slave owner ydna will cluster with Brits on Ydna charts lmao. On autosomal that will never happen because it covers entire genome.

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Of course, that's the meaning of patrilineal ancestry. It can actually point to an European male ancestor.
adna won't necessarily be able to do that. adna only quantifies the allele distribution in a population. Similar allele frequencies can result without crossing ancestry lines.