Jealousness, clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
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Jealousness, clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethel
Not jealous, just shit posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
Its not like it would change my life if abos or europeans had blonde hair first.
But austrailian aborigenes are far older then ane peoples.
First recorded case of Aborigens comes from the year 1770. Nothing sure is known before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by zebruh
ANE it is just 3-4 year old castizo freckled boy, and everything what is similar to him, who lived
in unknown time long ago. Even comparing this is weird, the more conclusions like you did.
The full paper is out!
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abi7673
Here are some interesting stuff:
So both substantial Near Eastern and substantial North European contribution is confirmed for Central Italians.Quote:
During the first half of the first millennium CE, we observe a marked shift in PCA space of all studied individuals toward the Near Eastern cline (Fig. 4A), distributed across the genetic space occupied by present-day southeastern European populations. We grouped nonoutlier individuals dating between 1 and 500 CE into the “C.Italy_Imperial” cluster (table S2A). Formal f4-tests reveal its higher affinity than C.Italy_Etruscan to ancient groups from Iran, Africa, and the Near East (table S2C). We then used qpAdm to quantify this group’s ancestry components, where C.Italy_Imperial was modeled as a mixture of the sources C.Italy_Etruscan and 158 published European and Near Eastern genomes from the Bronze and Iron Ages. As a result, the models that were found to fit the data best are those with a 38 to 59% contribution from Levantine or Anatolian populations into the local/preexisting C.Italy_Etruscan gene pool (Fig. 4B and table S4D). Substantial gene flow from the eastern Mediterranean was also reported in ancient individuals from Rome dated to the Imperial period (17). Despite our limited number of data points from the first five centuries CE, the new results suggest that the contribution of nonlocal ancestry in Rome was larger than in Etruria (Fig. 4A). However, this large-scale genetic impact of incoming groups during the Imperial period was not only limited to the metropolitan area around Rome but also extended into the neighboring and more distant regions considered here.
Regarding the last temporal interval of our ancient genomic transect (500 to 1000 CE), we observe that individuals grouped in the “C.Italy_Early.Medieval” cluster are generally shifted toward central European groups compared to C.Italy_Imperial and largely overlap with present-day populations from central Italy (TSI.SG) (Fig. 5A) (30). Using f4-tests, we can show that this transition is confirmed by a reduced affinity of C.Italy_Early.Medieval toward eastern Mediterranean populations compared to C.Italy_Imperial (table S2D). Moreover, the C.Italy_Early.Medieval cluster can be modeled successfully in qpAdm as a mixture between the preceding C.Italy_Imperial group and Late Antique or Medieval groups from northern and eastern Europe (among the 59 populations tested) in estimated proportions of 60 to 90% and 10 to 40%, respectively (table S4E). Notably, among the best supported models are those that feature individuals associated with Longobard cemeteries from Hungary and northern Italy (31). If we specifically restrict the analyses to those Longobard-related individuals carrying unadmixed northern European genetic ancestry (Piedmont_N.Longobard), then we obtain a ~20% contribution to the C.Italy_Early.Medieval cluster (Fig. 5B). This finding is consistent with a genetic input of northern European ancestry in central Italy during the Longobard period. However, the influence of other Germanic tribes in Italy like the Ostrogoths could also have enhanced the observed genomic shift.
https://www.science.org/cms/10.1126/...abi7673-f5.jpg
https://www.science.org/cms/10.1126/...abi7673-f4.jpg
Massive population turnover that deep into Italy. Germanic influence is yuge, Tuscans would probably be like Calabrians without it. Much food for thought.
Tuscans have more EEF than both Calabrians and Germanics, so you can't just model them as Imperial Romans + Germanics. Unfortunately it's not that simple, there are other factors behind their ethnogenesis, including greater Italic/Etruscan ancestry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Target Distance TUR_Barcin_N Yamnaya_RUS_Samara WHG Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps Levant_PPNB IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N MAR_Taforalt Italic 0.02739815 63.2 25.6 11.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Italian_Tuscany 0.01830718 54.4 31.0 4.0 6.6 3.6 0.0 0.4 Gallic 0.03103437 46.4 39.2 14.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Italian_Calabria 0.01802574 45.6 20.8 0.4 15.6 11.8 3.4 1.4 Germanic 0.04615022 35.6 49.2 15.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Even Samnites and Etruscans from places as far south as Campania will cluster like the Italics, I guess that's no surprise now.
Dodecad K12b of the samples, thanks to Jovialis from Eupedia:
Code::Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN012,7.01,0,10.55,0,41.84,29.45,0,0,0,0,11.15,0
:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR004,17.44,0,0,0,19.59,19.63,0,0,11.7,0,31.64,0
:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-413BCE:VET011,0,0,6.57,0,51.11,17.17,0,2.72,3.32,0,19.1,0
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)775-945CE:ETR007,5.51,0,2.37,1.28,30.11,25.01,0,0,8.81,0,26.92,0
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_772-888CE:ETR006,3.87,1.22,0,0,39.39,15.01,0,0,12.67,0,26.45,1.39
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_997-1149CE:ETR003,10.36,0,2.55,0,30.58,19.47,0,0,10.98,0,25.66,0.41
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)C899-1016CE:ETR013,6.64,0.06,1.86,0,35.44,14.98,0,0,9.51,0,31.24,0.28
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_772-960CE:POP001,4.72,0.15,0.86,0,35.02,19.76,0,0,8.74,1.36,28.84,0.55
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_729-942CE:TAQ003,5.6,0,2.14,1.3,29.31,17.09,0.1,0.93,11.36,0,31.59,0.58
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_895-1016CE:TAQ011,6.51,0.15,1.38,0.03,33.17,19.02,0,1.09,10.21,0,27.5,0.96
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_899-1021CE:TAQ009,4.13,0.23,2.43,0.82,33.16,19.69,0.14,0,9.54,0,28.81,1.06
C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_1018-1151CE:TAQ022,5.66,0,2.84,0,34.54,19.74,2.22,0,6.34,0,28.11,0.54
C.Italy_Early.Medieval_ETR014:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_977-1022CE:ETR014,3.51,0,2.87,0,27.31,14.86,0.51,0,14.53,0,36.4,0
C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR010,4.58,0.05,1.08,0.22,37.3,17.15,0.08,0,9.4,0,29.53,0.6
C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR012,17.52,1.96,0,0,41.58,12.98,3.45,0.35,5.74,0,16.42,0
C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_391-207BCE:TAQ007,3.25,0.65,8.19,0,33.36,6.55,0.82,0,13.72,0.07,31.87,1.52
C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_396-216BCE:TAQ023,0.11,0,9.86,0,38.6,11.68,0.88,1.34,10.18,0,26.04,1.31
C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_372-204BCE:VET008,0.41,0,8.27,0,38.29,9.06,0,1.75,12.78,0.04,28.42,0.99
C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-520BCE:CAM002,4.72,0.03,0,1.59,40.47,34.19,0,0,4.64,0,13.94,0.44
C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_360-200BCE:VET005,7.72,0.55,0,0,43.13,37.83,0,1.41,1.61,0,7.74,0
C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_related:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN002,0,0.36,0,0,41.12,32.35,0,0,0,0,26.17,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-540BCE:CAM003,0.93,0.04,0.79,0,49.21,23.83,0,0,7,0.18,16.98,1.04
C.Italy_Etruscan:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_780-540BCE:CAM001,1.38,0.19,1.2,0,47.62,24.58,0,0,6.88,0,17.87,0.27
C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_380-204BCE:CSN003,0.97,0.01,2,0,49.14,21.97,1.05,0,7.95,0.53,15.93,0.45
C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009,2.52,0,2.03,0,39.86,27.95,0,0,2.52,0.43,23.93,0.75
C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006,3.62,0,0,1.53,45.77,24.02,0.29,0,4.9,0,19.6,0.27
C.Italy_Etruscan:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_805-774BCE:ETR005,2,0,0,1.54,45.54,20.52,0.17,0,9.35,1.02,18.73,1.13
C.Italy_Etruscan:MaglianoinToscana(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:MAG001,0.84,0,0,0,47.05,24.88,0.37,0.08,3.46,0.47,22.84,0.02
C.Italy_Etruscan:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_804-557BCE:MAS004,1.12,0,0.85,0,44.63,29.23,0,0,1.36,1.35,21.46,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_772-436BCE:PRZ002,0,0,2.6,0.54,47.1,27.43,0,0,4.06,1.06,17.2,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_794-543BCE:PRZ001,1.55,0.11,0,0,48.41,23.78,0,0,6.08,0.13,19.22,0.71
C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_103BCE-54CE:TAQ002,0,0,1.15,0.26,46.51,23.88,0,0,5.81,0,21.27,1.12
C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ015,1.72,0,2.42,0,46.31,21.99,0,0,6.46,0.63,19.66,0.81
C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ024,1.55,0.2,4.01,0.27,46.92,21.83,0,0.36,4.57,0,20.29,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_358-98BCE:TAQ019,0.49,0,2.18,0,47.66,24.5,0.17,0,5.48,0.04,19.27,0.21
C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001,1.52,0,2.24,1.15,42.15,23.87,0,1.18,6.3,0,21.57,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_788-545BCE:VET010,0,0,4.61,0.76,48.22,21.92,0.27,0,3.53,0,20.12,0.57
C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VET002,0.77,1.24,2.59,0,48.74,18.77,0,0,7.8,0.08,20.03,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001,0,0,1.86,2.69,45.76,22.07,0,0.83,3.79,0,23.01,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_800-590BCE:VET003_4,1.33,0,2.66,0,47.08,21.2,0.25,0.26,7.04,0.15,20.03,0
C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_806-599BCE:VET007,0,0,2.57,0.68,51.02,20.09,0.22,0,6.74,0.42,17.63,0.63
C.Italy_Etruscan:Volterra(Pisa_Tuscany)_200-60BCE:VOL001,0.94,0,1.77,0,44.5,24.66,0.61,0.03,5.61,0,21.4,0.48
C.Italy_Etruscan_MAS001:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE:MAS001,7.2,0.84,4.18,0,26.73,30.23,1.6,0.6,6.25,1.12,21.08,0.18
C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_380-204BCE:CSN010,4.43,0.27,3.49,0,40.36,31.59,0,0,5.33,1.81,11.48,1.25
C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ005,1.39,0.44,5.14,0,46.29,17.75,0.22,0.33,8.86,0.41,18.68,0.49
C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ018,0,0,0.47,0,48.53,20.84,0.43,0,6.5,1.43,20.91,0.89
C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ001,2.36,0,4.12,0.57,47.15,23.95,0,0,4.6,0,17.25,0
C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ017,4.08,0,1.96,0,48.92,20.11,0,0,5.6,0,19.12,0.21
C.Italy_Etruscan_UDC_P:Chiostraccio(Siena_Tuscany)_174-53BCE:UDC_P,0,0,4.31,0,52.14,29.39,0,0,0.89,0,13.22,0.04
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN001,0.74,0,1.6,0.73,46.5,23.83,0,0,7.19,0,19.25,0.16
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN004,1.49,0,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0,5.2,0,18.21,0.93
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN005,1.48,0,4.65,0,39.23,28.19,0.65,0,6.11,0.54,19.16,0
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN007,0,0,0,0.5,50.29,20.45,0,0,10.86,0,17.91,0
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN008,4.93,0,0,0.4,43.71,27.95,0,0,4.16,0,18.84,0
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN013,4.87,0,0.54,0,45.93,21.96,0.41,0,5.92,0.25,19.55,0.57
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ008,4.27,1.3,0.28,0.84,49.67,21.5,0,0,3.99,0,17.53,0.63
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ010,0,0,1.32,0.05,48.43,24.81,0.71,0,4.04,0,20.41,0.24
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ012,3.32,0,1.79,0,51.8,17.96,0.72,0,7.3,0,16.79,0.33
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ013,2.83,1.64,1.78,0,46.46,21.33,0,0,6.68,0,19.04,0.23
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ016,2.43,0,1.67,0,46.91,24.12,0.84,0,5.34,0,18.06,0.63
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ004,1.71,0.66,0.95,0.36,48.5,23.89,0,0,5.59,0,17.87,0.48
C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ006,1.18,0,3.59,0,42.96,25.05,0.15,0,2.83,0,24.24,0
C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_240-380CE:MAS002,6.49,1.52,3.63,0,23.56,7.82,0,0.48,18.33,0.02,38.16,0
C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_400-530CE:MAS003,2.81,0,8.6,1.47,34.71,11.66,0,1.28,11.86,0,26.84,0.76
C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020,9.02,0.66,1.49,0.5,34.13,18.73,0.12,0,7.43,0,27.92,0
C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_262-424CE:TAQ021,3.74,0,2.51,0,33.22,11.47,2.01,0,12.62,0,34.44,0
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005,6.66,0,4.28,1.53,32.55,10.92,0,0,10.86,0.37,32.83,0
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006,8.51,0.54,5.29,0.22,27.14,16.32,0,0,9.76,1.99,30.08,0.16
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001,5.14,0,3.87,0.01,28.18,17.6,0,0,11.33,2.38,29.77,1.73
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008,4.55,6.58,0,0,36.17,16.54,2.72,0,8.77,0,23.04,1.63
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012,2.86,0,1.41,0.17,24.58,14.71,0,1.75,12.7,5.77,36.03,0.03
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013,7.7,0,5.12,0,28.43,14.81,0,0,10.94,1.22,30.32,1.45
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014,12.68,0,5.83,0,33.04,0,0,0.24,17.71,1.35,28.74,0.42
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015,7.16,0,3.85,0.73,28.62,13.96,0.39,0,13.73,0,30.9,0.64
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016,6.56,0,6.02,0,25.63,16.98,0,0,13.65,0.44,30.73,0
S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018,9.33,0,3.69,0,27.33,17.18,0,0,19.59,0,20.74,2.14
S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009,4.96,0,10.9,0.28,29.02,16.26,0,3.03,6.57,0,28.99,0
S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010,16.14,0,2.12,1.09,37.1,15.42,0,0.05,13.2,0,14.88,0
S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017,1.13,1.55,0,0.12,32.91,17.47,3.75,0,12.37,3.07,27.62,0
S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021,8.65,0,0.51,3.3,17.54,14.06,0,2.43,21.68,1.47,30.37,0
S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022,7.04,0,0,5.28,15.13,25.83,0,0.13,20.82,0,25.77,0
S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002,2.79,8.01,0,12.59,16.3,9.93,3.89,0.01,6.34,27.43,12.71,0
Can someone model European Jews with those ancient Italians and other stuff? I'd really like to know their actual Middle Eastern percentage. It's kinda relevant to the topic because they were from the Roman Empire. Use Iron Age Levantine samples.
Compare their percentage of Levant_PPNB with that of some ancient Levant groups and you have the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....169#post803169
Interesting that it seems most or all of MENA related ancestry is Roman, and not Early Medieval?
I don't wanna talk to you but okay. To be clear, by "Middle Eastern" I mean Biblical Israelite ancestry, not some obscure pre-historic stuff. There's no way they are only 20% Middle Eastern as that model suggests. You need samples from 1000 BC through 1 AD. That's what I'm interested in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
They look between modern Nothern Italians and Sardinians according to this.
https://www.science.org/cms/10.1126/...abi7673-f2.jpg
Still close to modern Central and Northern Italian whose shift doesn't seem that Near-Eastern as in Levant. Caucasian/CHG of some sort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Token
This is nice:)
Quote:
If we specifically restrict the analyses to those Longobard-related individuals carrying unadmixed northern European genetic ancestry (Piedmont_N.Longobard), then we obtain a ~20% contribution to the C.Italy_Early.Medieval cluster (Fig. 5B). This finding is consistent with a genetic input of northern European ancestry in central Italy during the Longobard period. However, the influence of other Germanic tribes in Italy like the Ostrogoths could also have enhanced the observed genomic shift.
Quote:
Continuing our genomic transect into the Early Middle Ages (500 to 1000 CE), we observe an additional genetic transition in some of the former Etruria territories through the spread of northern European–related ancestries. Admixture models are consistent with this genetic component being introduced from previously published individuals associated with the Longobard culture, although other cultural groups may have contributed as well. Thus, settlers expanding across large parts of the Italian peninsula after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and the establishment of the Longobard Kingdom might have left a traceable impact on the genetic landscape of central Italy.
Simply Near Easterners migrated to Italy in mass number. So only because of Goths and Lombards it was reversed to status quo ante. In the north at least.
So no blablabla neolithic ancestry. It is on Sardinia.
Quote:
The genetic replacement of ~50% of the preceding Etruscan-related gene pool was likely influenced by the movement of slaves and possibly soldiers, along with a larger pattern of human mobility from the eastern Mediterranean toward Italy (45–49)
Quote:
Our new data from Etruria show that the influx of Near Eastern ancestry spread far beyond the greater capital region itself and suggest that this broader pattern of population movement may have affected larger portions of the Italian peninsula.
Target: Italian_Tuscany
Distance: 224.3988% / 2.24398760
62.2 C.Italy_Etruscan
21.8 I1409_ARE20_Middle_Late_Chalcolithic_Vayots-Dzor_Armenia
16.0 France_IA_NOR4
Don't know about Armenoids but the shift in the medieval or now doesn't seem Semitic, rather Anatolian or Caucasian. Anatolia was well Romanized sociopolitically in antiquity-medieval.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
Goths also don't have the same history with the Lombards who suddenly woke up from Sweden. They had already established themselves in Pannonia for centuries.
Authors said Near Eastern ancestry specifically. Anatolian would be stressed if it would be main but certainly was also present, ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faklon
Quote:
Our new data from Etruria show that the influx of Near Eastern ancestry spread far beyond the greater capital region itself and suggest that this broader pattern of population movement may have affected larger portions of the Italian peninsula.
Near-East is as a simple word as Europe. It looks to be Anatolian, Anatolia was culturally Roman, modern Turkey is full of Roman-era sites and half of the core Christian saints come from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
Semitic and Gothic, when 30th generation Romanian Goths should be like Swedes, sound more shocking, ok
:cool: :whistle:Quote:
Second, after the Bronze Age admixture, the Etruscan-related gene pool remained generally homogeneous for almost 800 years, notwithstanding the sporadic presence of individuals of likely Near Eastern, northern African, and central European origins.
You don't want to use definition from Wikipedia, do you? :cool: Look on map.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faklon
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Like this?
https://i.ibb.co/nDf7k2Q/a.png
The entire area between the Maghreb and Iran was viewed very differently back then compared to now. The Tunisian, Libyan and Egyptian coasts were firmly Greco-Roman from pre-Christian times up until the 7th century.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faklon
Yy, you are a Negropolrebby and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
Gothic kings like Alaric I who were born in the modern Balkans, were Near-Easterners.
So, ultimately they got only Gothic influx. Polrebby logic.
Thanks, that chart looks pretty good. Only a Sephardic avg is missing. Though 55-60% ME for Eastern Ashkenazim might be a tiny bit too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Maul
YESQuote:
Originally Posted by Faklon
https://i.imgur.com/UREWEIH.jpg
There were cities in these modern countries, in Anatolia it was every city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Swapping Etruscan with ITA_Rome_Imperial (aka compensating for the Roman East Med admix) brings it down to ~25%, which seems a bit low I think. due to overfit of shared components, academic studies should probably be referred to hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Are the samples available on the Global 25?
CAM002 (genotype ratio 68%)Quote:
Campiglia dei Foci (Colle di Val d’Elsa, Siena), n=3
- Geographical coordinates: 43.4134155,11.0742656 (Campiglia dei Foci)
- Radiocarbon dates range (n=3): 780-520 cal BCE
- Analyzed individuals: CAM001, CAM002, CAM003
The three individuals coming from the locality of Campiglia dei Foci were found in 1984 during the excavation of the so-called Pierini Tomb, an Etruscan grave dating back to the Archaic period. The tomb was accidentally discovered during the renovation of a private garden and its excavation was conducted by the Gruppo Archeologico Colligiano, under the supervision of the Soprintendenza Archeologica della Toscana. The Pierini tomb consists of two rectangular chambers separated by a central partition. It represents one of the most significant Etruscan finds in the Valdelsa territory for the peculiarity and state of preservation of the grave goods, which are now conserved at the Civic Museum of Colle Val d’Elsa (116). The archaeological attribution of the tomb to the 7th-6th century BCE is consistent with the radiocarbon dates obtained for the three individuals reported in this study (8th-6th century BCE).
Distance to: CAM002
1.04538474 FR_Franche_Comte
1.11351064 FR_Ile-de-France
1.11467136 IT_Aosta
1.13003911 IT_Trentino
1.13219717 IT_Piedmont
1.13266029 FR_Central
1.16167782 FR_Provence
1.19116746 Swiss_German
1.20434556 IT_Veneto
1.22319960 Swiss_Italian
Distance: 7.9333% / 7.93329643
Target: CAM002 | ADC: 0.25x RC
44.0 IT_Trentino
14.8 ES_Andalusia_North
14.5 DE_Nordrhein
12.6 FR_South
8.3 FR_Normandy
5.8 PL_Suwalki
CAM001
genotype ratio 78%
Distance to: CAM001
1.48265308 IT_Lombardia
1.57368096 Swiss_Italian
1.59205761 FR_Corsica
1.74782269 IT_Liguria
1.78540089 IT_Toscania
1.80142815 Portugal_Norte
1.82216966 IT_Emilia-Romagna
1.90696875 IT_Trentino
2.00182821 ES_Cataluna
2.01821893 IT_Piedmont
Target: CAM001 | ADC: 0.25x RC
61.8 IT_Lombardia
20.2 ES_Cantabria
18.0 IT_central_Sardinian
CAM003 54%
Target: CAM003 | ADC: 0.25x RC
50.4 IT_Lombardia
22.4 ES_Burgos
17.5 IT_southern_Sardinian
9.7 Basques_ES_Gipuzkoa_central
Distance to: CAM003
1.35276296 FR_Corsica
1.43226062 ES_Cataluna
1.45749740 ES_Islas_Baleares
1.48307659 IT_Liguria
1.48350327 ES_Valencia
1.49344802 IT_Lombardia
1.50669485 Portugal_Norte
1.52102227 Portugal_Centro
1.56936434 ES_Galicia
1.58894721 Swiss_Italian
Why won't you talk to me? :confused3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
But no, it's clear that we're not just talking about 20%, you have to make a percentage between that figure and the Levantine groups. If the average Jew has 20% Levant_PPNB and Samaritan has 57.8%, that makes Ashkenazi Jews as at most 36% Jewish. As I wrote in the post, depending on what ancient population is being considered, the percentage may decrease or increase.
They fall firmly within the Iberian cluster. I think there will be mass suicides on IR lololQuote:
Originally Posted by Faklon
late-Etruscan necropolis
Casenovole (Civitella Paganico, Grosseto), n=12
- Geographical coordinates: 43.033319, 11.332940
- Radiocarbon dates range (n=6): 530-200 cal BCE
genotype ratio 64%
Distance to: CSN001
1.07674610 IT_Lombardia
1.21727846 FR_Corsica
1.31327748 Swiss_Italian
1.34293251 IT_Toscania
1.37617915 IT_Liguria
1.37624724 IT_Emilia-Romagna
1.54215180 IT_Trentino
1.66358559 FR_Savoie
1.68819930 Portugal_Norte
1.72788155 IT_Piedmont
Target: CSN001 | ADC: 0.25x RC
74.8 IT_Lombardia
10.7 IT_southern_Sardinian
8.6 FR_Savoie
5.9 ES_Burgos
genotype ratio 41%
Distance to: CSN003
1.02598413 IT_Piedmont
1.09820911 Swiss_Italian
1.11246629 FR_Provence
1.25731274 IT_Trentino
1.26321612 FR_Corsica
1.27150257 ES_Cataluna
1.27518650 ES_Galicia
1.28986361 IT_Lombardia
1.29048287 IT_Veneto
1.29672708 PT_Azores
Target: CSN003 | ADC: 0.25x RC
26.3 IT_Lombardia
19.4 IT_central_Sardinian
18.8 FR_Champagne-Ardenne
15.7 ES_Huesca
8.4 Swiss_Italian
6.6 DE_Brandenburg
4.8 Saudi_Arabian
Is there any substancial Mycenaean or Balkan shift in Etruscans that would explain part of the ''West Asian'' in modern Tuscans? Are we able to measure that even, the populations (Central Italy/Balkans) being exceptionally close?
Code:780-540 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312
770-520 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu G2a2b2a1 L140/S316
770-540 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan G2a2b2a1a1b L497/S317
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated - -
427-265 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_related - -
380-204 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2d1a Z2247
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated J2b2a1 L283
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312
533-392 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2/S139
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated - -
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated - -
427-265 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312
380-204 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan_related R1b1a1b1a1a2d1a Z2247
- - n/a n/a
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated - -
139-326 CE C.Italy_Imperial - -
997-1149 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval R1b1a1b1a L51
- - n/a n/a
805-774 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
772-888 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval - -
775-945 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval - -
- C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated - -
- C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated n/a n/a
899-1016 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval - -
977-1022 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval_ETR014 J1a2a1a2 P58/Page8/PF4698
40-190 CE - n/a n/a
407-534 CE C.Italy_Imperial I1 -
790-550 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a L151
350-100 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan_MAS001 G2a2b2a1a1c1a1 CTS5990/Z1903
240-380 CE C.Italy_Imperial R1b1a1b1b Z2103
400-530 CE C.Italy_Imperial R1b1a1b M269/PF6517
804-557 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1 P310
772-960 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2
794-543 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
772-436 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2
356-96 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan_related - -
103 BCE-54 CE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312
729-942 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval - -
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated R1b1a1b1a1a2b U152
346-51 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan_related R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated G2a2b2a1a1b1 CTS9737/Z1815
391-207 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr - -
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated - -
899-1021 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval I1a2a1a1a1a S1954/YSC0000261
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312
895-1016 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval - -
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated - -
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated R1b1a1b1a1a1 M405/U106/S21
346-51 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
- C.Italy_Etruscan_undated - -
356-96 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan_related R1b1a1b1a L51
346-51 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan_related R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2
358-98 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
89-236 CE C.Italy_Imperial J2a1a1a2 Z2229
262-424 CE C.Italy_Imperial J2a1a1a2b1b M319
1018-1151 CE C.Italy_Early.Medieval - -
396-216 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr G2a2b2a1a1c1a1 CTS5990/Z1903
356-96 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a2 PF7589/Z2118
174-53 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan_UDC_P R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312
650-800 CE S.Italy_Venosa J2a1a1a2b2a2b3a L210
650-800 CE S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002 - -
650-763 CE S.Italy_Venosa - -
650-763 CE S.Italy_Venosa J2b2a1 L283
660-766 CE S.Italy_Venosa E1b1b1a1b1 L618
660-766 CE S.Italy_Venosa_related - -
670-775 CE S.Italy_Venosa_related J2b M12
670-775 CE S.Italy_Venosa G2a2b2a1 L140/S316
670-775 CE S.Italy_Venosa J2b2a1 L283
670-775 CE S.Italy_Venosa - -
670-775 CE S.Italy_Venosa - -
672-800 CE S.Italy_Venosa - -
672-800 CE S.Italy_Venosa_related n/a n/a
672-800 CE S.Italy_Venosa - -
672-800 CE S.Italy_Venosa_related - -
672-800 CE S.Italy_Venosa_related G2a2b2a P303/Page108/PF3340/S135/Z765
750-406 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
790-550 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan G2a2b2b1a1a PF3378
800-590 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
360-200 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu - -
359-199 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr_VET006.9 - -
806-599 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
372-204 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr - -
788-545 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan - -
750-413 BCE - n/a n/a
790-550 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2
200-60 BCE C.Italy_Etruscan R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2
Please, Lucas, can you do the same withe the samples "Etruscan CEU" who, apparently, plot close or with the French, if i am not mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
From Jovialis' post:Quote:
Originally Posted by J.S.
Code:Distance to: C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_related:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN002
9.95255809 Swiss_Italian
10.05901089 Italian_Trentino
10.96726949 Italian_Veneto
11.51826810 Italian_Lombardy
12.05897591 Italian_Aosta_Valley
Distance to: C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_360-200BCE:VET005
5.68386312 French_North
6.47929780 French_Northwest
6.56206522 French_Northeast
7.24151918 Belgian
7.40929821 English_South
Distance to: C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-520BCE:CAM002
5.75750814 Italian_Aosta_Valley
5.79004318 French_Northeast
6.57764396 French_North
7.71435675 Bavarian_German
8.10896418 Italian_Trentino
Thank you very much !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
Admixtures, copied from publication :
Code:
Test Anatolia_N WHG Yamnaya Iran_N Morocco_EN
C.Italy_Early.Medieval 0,573 0,066 0,199 0,162 0
C.Italy_Etruscan 0,646 0,122 0,233 0 0
C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr 0,622 0,071 0,054 0,202 0,051
C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu 0,473 0,149 0,377 0 0
C.Italy_Imperial 0,65 0,04 0,15 0,131 0,029
TSI.SG 0,468 0,089 0,196 0,247 0
Tuscan.DG 0,443 0,094 0,223 0,24 0
Why in the official studies they model always ancient/modern italians only with iran neolithic and never with natufian or neolithic levant?
I'm suprised no one talked about this :
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abi7673Quote:
The three individuals grouped in C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr—after exclusion of a genetic outlier (Materials and Methods, Fig. 4A, and table S2A)—cannot be modeled as a mixture between Neolithic-related and Bronze Age–related European ancestries (table S4B). These individuals are dated to around 300 BCE and were excavated at two archeological sites separated by a distance greater than 100 km (Tarquinia and Vetulonia). Statistics in the form f3(C.Italy_Etruscan, X; C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr) and f4(Onge, X, C.Italy_Etruscan, C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr) show evidence of C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr being a mixture of Etruscans and ancient or modern-day individuals (as a proxy) carrying high proportions of north African or sub-Saharan ancestries (tables S2, B and C, and S3, A and B). Using qpAdm, all admixture models including C.Italy_Etruscan as one of the sources are rejected (table S4D). However, given the limited availability of genomes from northern Africa with comparable ages (26), we caution that ancestry proportions might be more correctly estimated as additional data from this region become available.
Another proof carthaginians were north african, it's crazy how almost every paper on ancient Iberia/italy show either north african admixture or north african individuals.