Pity..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosniensis
Ok you can believe whatever you want Idc that much
Bye
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Pity..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosniensis
Ok you can believe whatever you want Idc that much
Bye
There was practicaly no Hungarian rule or impact in Bosnia, Bosnia was defacto indipendent and being remote and mountanious it is very much shielded from outsiders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buusra
Bosniaks have nothing to do with Turks, they are genetically almost indistinguishable from Croats, followed by Serbs. Just to make it clear.
It isn't related to topic anyway.
Their I2a was of dinaric variety, so it's obvious it was assimilated along the way. Nothing strange for the steppe peoples, they were open to intermarry and assimilate other tribes since dawn of time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
:)
She really believs in those bullshits, so let her. Turks always want to people make fun of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
But Magyars were originally not steppe people but forest zone people - like all other Finno-Ugric groups. They later moved to the steppe. So maybe their I2a-Din came from the forest zone of Russia, Belarus and Northern Ukraine, just like Slavic I2a-Din most probably did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
Of course in the steppe Magyars interacted with Turkic and Iranic groups, as shown by loanwords in Hungarian language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
The Magyars were steppe peoples everytime.
proto-Magyars of cherkaskul culture: open steppe
ancient magyars of Sargat culture: forest steppe
early medieval magyars of Kusnarenkovo culture: forest steppe
medieval Magyars of Subbotci culture: open steppe
Adrienne Kormendy in her 2014 article for Polish readers wrote that Magyars originated in non-steppe areas and later migrated south to the steppe.Quote:
Originally Posted by blogen
Everybody has Turkic origin, right? Maybe you will be satisfied then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buusra
Yeah, I also read the same in book about Hungarian history written by Hungarian member of Academy. It states proto-Magyars originated in forest of Urals/western Siberia where they were finshemen and hunters, and moved to steppe later, where they fist interacted with Iranic groups in fact, and lastly with Turks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
From same book (translated to English) Stears already posted it in another thread.
Search for the oldest urheimat of the people who are ancestors of the Hungarians leads us on the border of Europe and Asia, so-called Uralic homeland. Based on the linguistic opinion, area of western Siberia and northern part of the Ural mountains. However, many archeologists believe that the real and original homeland of the Uralic people existed in Europe, streaching from the shores of Baltic sea to the Urals.
Uralic people spoke their common tongue until 4000 BC, when they started to split to smaller ethno-cultural and linguistic communities. As we can see on the rock paintings from the Urals, that time they were still paleolithic hunters and gatherers. Hungarian words for hunting and fishing belong to the oldest substrate of Uralic languages.
Around 3000 BC, Uralic languages split to two main branches: Finno-Ugric and Samoyedic. At that time, despite they were still hunters and gatherers, Finno-Ugric peoples (and the ancestors of Hungarians among them) were already using neolithic tools. Most important supstrate in modern Hungarian language is Finno-Ugric beyond any doubt: it contains only 1000 written words, but 60% (in written documents up to 80% percent) of complex words which are of Finno-Ugric origin. They describe family relations, seasons of the year and natural phenomenons (the sky, the snow, the clouds) as well as basic nouns (living, drinking, eating, standing, going, giving etc.)
Hungarian tribes were well prepared for transition to the nomadic way of life when they found themself in the steppe around 2000 BC. It was also time when the Ugric community split. To escape drought caused by high temperatures, Voguls and Ostyaks returned to forests up north and to the hunter gatherer lifestyle. At the same time proto-Hungarians remained in the steppe, adopting to new evironment. Finno-Ugric connection was now ended, but the linguistic link survived as well as certain elements of the comparative belief system-which is, considering the circumstances, quite miraculous.
Comparative ethnography has found several traditions among village communities inside of the Carpathian Basin which are identical or unusualy similar to the traditions we find among Finno-Ugric peoples: idea about the ''tree that reaches to heavens'' (which connects earthly world and the undergound with heavenly realm), the concept of ''double soul'' or the specific nature of shamanism.
Almost everything which will be spoken about the next millenium and history of Hungarian ancestors is in realm of guessing, and not confirmed facts.
After transition to nomadic way of life, perhaps of the area between Ural river and Aral sea, during first millenium BC, Hungarians were under strong influence of the neighbouring Iranic tribes, Schytians and Sarmatians. To them they probably owe use of iron, and the fact that Hungarian word for sword is of Iranic origin, is symbolic witness for nomadic warlike spirit. However, we cannot estimate the exact time when the Hungarian tribes have left south siberian vast lands and moved to their new European homeland, east from the big curve of the Volga river. This area, known as Baskiria, and the traveling monks from 13th century, like the Hungarian dominican Julian, called it Magna Hungaria.
Perhaps around 1000 BC, Hungarians wandered there togheder with Iranic tribes, but this movement could also happen between 350-400 AD, as a result of great chaos caused by Huns, or even later, around 550 AD, as result of the migrations of the Turkic tribes.
Even after that many well established facts need to be taken with reserve. There is no doubt that the dominant folk and culture of the steppe during these centuries was Turkic, and non-Turkic peoples like the Alans or the Magyars came under their strong influence (which was caused by long co-existance and mutual contacts). Economic and cultural changes which happened at that time can be proved by around 300 words of Turkic origin that made it to Hungarian vocabulary. Even the political institutions, like the dual administration, or spliting of power by spiritual and military leaders, if not exclusively Turkic, are typical for them. Organisation of tribes to the military units is also Turkic (Bulgar) influence that Hungarians received, just like the use of armor and stirrup.
This is the result of the several centuries of co-existance in steppe of the Hungarians and Turks.