Laberia on my side.... for the first time ever.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
:cool:
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Laberia on my side.... for the first time ever.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
:cool:
My father is plotted slightly southeast of you, and me slightly south west towards Tuscan from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojet
I2 is originally not Slavic, but indigenous in the Balkan.
You keep repeating that for years without any proof except a eupedia map. the evidence is mounting against it, Loki. With all due respect, it's a lost cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
There is a big group of Bosnians who settled in Albania after anexion of Bosnia to the Austro-Hungarian empire. Could be it I guess. They were moving to Turkey but they stoped in Albania and never left it.
Could just be Slavs or Aromanians that picked up I2a1b from Slavs and had many sonsQuote:
Originally Posted by opsticle
I think those guys are responsible for that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiounitai
For the last time.... I2a1 in the Balkans is NOT Slavic in origin... it is Paleolithic.
The highest frequency of I2a1 (I-P37) in the Balkans today was present before the Slavic expansion and is owed to indigenous tribes,[64] and is particularly suggested to have been common among the ancient Thracians in Romania. source
Kushniarevich, A; Utevska, O; Chuhryaeva, M; Agdzhoyan, A; Dibirova, K; Uktveryte, I; Möls, M; Mulahasanovic, L; Pshenichnov, A; Frolova, S; Shanko, A; Metspalu, E; Reidla, M; Tambets, K; Tamm, E; Koshel, S; Zaporozhchenko, V; Atramentova, L; Kučinskas, V; Davydenko, O; Goncharova, O; Evseeva, I; Churnosov, M; Pocheshchova, E; Yunusbayev, B; Khusnutdinova, E; Marjanović, D; Rudan, P; Rootsi, S; et al. (2015). "Genetic Heritage of the Balto-Slavic Speaking Populations: A Synthesis of Autosomal, Mitochondrial and Y-Chromosomal Data".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4558026/
Here I just posted evidence above, dude. Enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholarios
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post4942718
1850 Latin speakers in Serbia 120.000 (Vlachs)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Of those 120.000 at least 80% got assimilated into Serbs.
Can you imagine how many Thracians have been assimilated into Slavic populace from 500 A.D. to 2000 A.D. (1500 years)
Yet people can't believe the fact that Western Balkans was extremely Latin oriented region.
Of course those assimilated Latins (Thracians, Illyrians) are no other people than Balkan Vlachs (Serbs, Romanians, Bosnians) etc... and they are I2a1b people
The I2a1b in the Balkans isn't native balkan in origin this is an established fact proven by recent studies on STR/SNP diversity and ancient DNA. One reason why the I2a1b clade found in South Slavs can't be native in origin is due to diversity, the clades found in South Slavs lack diversity suggesting that the haplogroup didn't have an expansion from the Balkan region as if it did there would be a high diversity of SNPs, studies show that the highest diversity is actually in between Poland and Ukraine which suggests an expansion from there and the studies show that the time of these expansions could be during the early medieval era. Another reason why it can't be native is due to ancient DNA samples, the ancient samples from the Balkans were only I2a2a and I2a1a when it came to I2 meaning that no I2a1b was found but I2a1b has been found across NW Europe in Germany and Scandinavia for example, one of the Motala SHG samples from Sweden was in fact I2a1b-L147.2 which is also known as I2a-Din suggesting that it probably has origin there and later moved into east Europe where it then began to split into various clades including the clades found in east Europe/South Slavs. Another reason to why I2a1b most likely has NW European origin is due to the oldest I2a1b samples being found there and due to the brother clade of I2a-Din being found almost exclusively in NW Europe and with high diversity there iirc. The sources you posted are pretty old and have been disproved by more recent studiesQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
The native Balkan theory which is now obsolete was always flawed as it was only based on geographical frequencies which is wrong as frequencies of haplogroups can easily change with certain breeding biases where a certain Ydna carrier has more sons than the others and thus replacing the rest, this is what happened with Basques as originally they weren't mainly R1b since they aren't IE but due to certain IE people entering the Basque gene pool and producing more sons than the natives allowed them to gain the higher frequency in terms of haplogroups
I really have to *facepalm* at this. And no, the above peer-reviewed study is NOT flawed, it is accepted by all who DON'T have an ideological interest that blinds their objective judgement. Even Wikipedia accepts it. You basically think you know better than these scientists who have confirmed this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
No, it is not "obsolete", and has never been obsolete. The "I2a1-is-Slavic" mantra has been flawed, and erroneous from the start. I told you guys long ago, nobody wanted to believe me. Now I actually show you studies confirming this, and still you don't want to believe. Why not? Because your argument is ideological, not scientific reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
Ummm no, modern day geneticists don’t agree with the Balkan theory as its outdated and I bet you didnt get what I posted. And no I don’t think I know better im just saying what recent studies are showing. I wouldn’t even mind it if I2a1b was native so no I’m not blinded by ideological interests. Im still waiting for you to say how I2a1b is native. Even Serbs from the Serbian DNA project and Eupedia acknowledge its non-Balkan origin https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...NA.shtml#I2a1bQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
I just told you, using evidence from recent studies. Can you give a scientific explanation to how it’s native Balkan? Also please find a study from 2017 which says its native. And if possible take a quote from your study which says it’s nativeQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Basically another way of saying that you don’t know and that you have no evidence to back up what you claimQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
No, just that I'm totally tired to keep repeating the truth to you, only for it to be trampled upon and denied. I have time and again backed up what I said with evidence. I have just posted more evidence in a peer-reviewed scientific study, which you have again rejected. And what are YOUR credentials? Believe what you want. It's your ideology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
You speak of I2a1b in this post. Are there any other I2 clades in balkans? And what are their origin/spread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
It's a nonsense. All I2 clades in the Balkans are Paleolithic in origin, and predate the Slavic invasion by a long shot. Slavs brought R1a to the region.
Yh, I2a2a-Z161 which was found in the WHG of Serbia although today is found mainly among Germanic peoples, I2a2a-L699 which was found in Bronze Age Bulgaria some suggest it to have some link to the Yamna via some WHGs who got assimilated, I2a1a this haplogroup was also found in the WHG of Serbia iirc like other I2 Clare’s it is WHG in origin but was assimilated by Neolithic cultures which in this case was the Cardial ware culture and finally there is I2a1b-L161.1 which is the brother clade of I2a-Din it is almost only found in NW Europe and was found in many WHG samples it is found in small frequencies in Albanians and few other Balkanites although it is most probably of Germanic origin in themQuote:
Originally Posted by Kouros
Lol ok...Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Loki simply can't see the forest for the trees on this one. He is like this eupedia group and think the word "Paleolithic" is deeply meaningful. Anyways. tiresome.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Incorrect. So what haplogroups were Bastarnae?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
R1a or R1b of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
People like you can't comprehend the fact that people from Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania ruled the region's all up to Finland then got destroyed by R1a and R1b who came from Asia.
I2 was formed in Serbia (Core I2) then conquered everything North of Greece.
Before R1 invasions I2 was the primary Haplogroup in Europe and in Formed on Western Balkans.
I2a1b people are remenants of the remenants ...
I2 and I1 should be protected by UNESCO xD
Better read this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosniensis
https://www.poreklo.rs/forum/index.php?topic=166.0
R1a is formed in Eurasia.Quote:
got destroyed by R1a and R1b who came from Asia.
I don’t understand why the title of the thread was changed to “Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in South Albania” when it clearly isn’t
Maybe becouse someone is butthurt about his own origin and started to think that it is indogeneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
I2 most probably originated from I people in around west Europe as the oldest I2 sample is from Palaeolithic SwitzerlandQuote:
Originally Posted by Bosniensis
Loki changed it even though he is E-V13, idk why people still persist on I2a1b in the Balkans being native when every possible piece of evidence shown today debunks itQuote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
Maybe some clades, but most of them are not indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
The classes carried by South Slavs arent native. The only type of I2a1b which could be found in WHG samples from the Balkans is I2-L161.1 which is the brother clade of I2a-Din and they split off from I2a1b around NW EuropeQuote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
I2a2 was/is indigenous marker, I2a1 however is new as it came during Slavic expansion in Balkans, Loki should revise his position on this.
Yep, bu then we have a question who was these I2a1b which have modern Slavs, since it's proved they weren't in the Pripyat area, like we thought before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmendasi
Exactly. I2a2a1 was the main Ydna found among Balkan WHG, I think there could be some native I2a1 as well such as I2a1a and perhaps I2a1-L161.1 but I2a1-Din for sure isn’t nativeQuote:
Originally Posted by The Illyrian Warrior
The I2a1b in Slavs originally came from the Hunter-Gatheres of NW Europe so it migrated east into east Europe, I would say that the expansion of I2a1b-Din into the Balkans occurred around Poland or UkraineQuote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
Maybe they weren't there in past, but they are now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic
Modern Slavic men in Pripyat area are around 20%+ I2-dinaric, higher concentration than usual among northern Slavs.
He is still stuck in 2013 and thinks he's trolling with this stuff. Sad part is he doesn't even know this forum just degraded to almost totally meaningless pop culture memes and no one cares anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Illyrian Warrior