German GEDmatch results

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Originally Posted by Gecko

Are Russlanddeutsche mixed?

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If I'm not mistaken before WW2 it was rare for them to mix with Russians.

Only after WW2 those who remained in the Soviet Union started mixing.

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Originally Posted by Creoda

The concept of nation originally referred to peoples of the same birth or origin. That is arguable for many modern 'nations', who are tied together more by politics than birth/origin. And just because the concept of genetic clustering didn't exist in the past, doesn't mean it didn't exist, it being a reflection of people's common blood, or lack thereof.

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Agreed. I think the modern German nation certainly falls under a broader definition of "nation" than many other nations, which is unsurprising since it was a unification of many states just a short 150 years ago. But I think an important question is, are all Germans related? Is there an ancestral strain that they all have in common? I think there is between Easterners and Westerners. I don't know about Northerners and Southerners. And then there are the recently Germanized, whose incorporation arguably took place during the broadening of "German" identity, i.e. the 19th century, when language and culture became increasingly important.

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Originally Posted by Tomenable

Well, at least Ashkenazi Jews are definitely a nation because they are all 30th cousins:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/n...e-30th-cousins

"According to a new study, all Ashkenazi Jews are basically cousins. More specifically, Ashkenazi Jews are at least 30th cousins."

And that demographic miracle happened in Polish Rzeczpospolita as this study shows:

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article...180?login=true

"extreme population growth in the Eastern AJ (0.250 per generation)"

How come that Jews who remained in the Holy Roman Empire (Western AJ) could not achieve such rapid growth, but only 0.069 per generation?

BTW that fast population growth and very large numbers of children which Jewish families tended to have was noticed by contemporary Polish authors. Already in year 1598 nobleman Sebastian Miczynski noted the following about Jewish fertility in Poland:

"Jews marry at age 12, they don't fight in wars, they don't die from bad air, and so they breed like rabbits."

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Yeah, I see Jews as a nation, albeit a scattered one. I have my doubts that Jewish fecundity in Poland was due to tolerance on the part of the Poles. I suspect it had to do with a generally more peasant culture there. I've been surprised in my genealogical research at how late German girls married and how many fewer children they had relative to other parts of Europe. Perhaps Germans were "civilized," pardon the word, and urbanized earlier, both of which naturally lead to a lower birthrate, which probably affected Jews in the area too. That said, I'm not particularly interested in whether or not Poles were anti-Semitic. Unlike you, I am not a Judeophile.

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Originally Posted by Smitty

But I think an important question is, are all Germans related? Is there an ancestral strain that they all have in common? I think there is between Easterners and Westerners. I don't know about Northerners and Southerners.

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Yes there is an ancestral strain that they all have in common - they all have Germanic admixture.

But Southerners got their Germanic input in Late Antiquity, while Easterners in the Middle Ages.

And Northwestern Germany is the original territory from which ancestors of Germans expanded.

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Originally Posted by Smitty

And then there are the recently Germanized, whose incorporation arguably took place during the broadening of "German" identity, i.e. the 19th century, when language and culture became increasingly important.

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Yes but probably relatively few in numbers compared to the total (Germans are dozens of millions).

Germans were deported to Kazakhstan by Joseph Stalin right when the war with the Soviet Union began. Amd unlike some other ethnic groups they were not officially allowed to return after Stalin died in 1953. So basically between 1941 and 1991 they had to live in KZ (and Kirgizia too sometimes) which was like a melting pot region of resettled and deported peoples. Around the time of the Perestroika (1985-91) they began to immigrate to Germany. Siberian Germans (not deported, a different settlement) also joined them. Generally it's the older, the purer. People below 30 are often 25% German if not less. No kidding.

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Originally Posted by Leto

Generally it's the older, the purer.

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The case pretty much everywhere.

In case of France there is also an ancestral strain that they all have in common, but this time it is Celtic.

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Originally Posted by Smitty

The case pretty much everywhere.

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Well, when Soviet Jews started making Aliyah to Israel in the late 80s, like 90+% were rabbinically Jewish but by 2000 the percentage dropped below 50%. I think it might be similar with Volga Germans. A trickle of immigration continues to this day (still 150,000 self-reported or state-recorded Germans live in KZ and 200-300,000 in Russia).

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Originally Posted by Smitty

Agreed. I think the modern German nation certainly falls under a broader definition of "nation" than many other nations, which is unsurprising since it was a unification of many states just a short 150 years ago. But I think an important question is, are all Germans related? Is there an ancestral strain that they all have in common? I think there is between Easterners and Westerners. I don't know about Northerners and Southerners. And then there are the recently Germanized, whose incorporation arguably took place during the broadening of "German" identity, i.e. the 19th century, when language and culture became increasingly important.

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It's appropriate that ethnic Germans call Germany the Fatherland (or they used to), because their genetic relationship is a mostly paternal one. For the nations I'm referring to as 'proper', it refers to both a common paternal + maternal ancestry, that results in being genetically very close. (maybe coincidentally Anglosphere nations refer to Britain as the mother country by contrast, and Britannia is personified in female form).

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Originally Posted by Creoda

From Czech, to Scandinavian, to British, to French. More of an Empire with a common tongue than a proper nation, no offence. (Same for the French and Italians).

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What country on the continent surrounded by neighbours doesn't range from one neighbour to another?