Arpad dynasty DNA (kings of Hungary & Croatia)

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

You are taking things far out of context. The adventures of the early Magyars are surrounded with both fact and legend. You are also quoting out of data sources that are no longer the standard for judging Hungarian composition. It would be OK if you quoted old data that was still supported by more modern science, but did you read the links I have posted far earlier in the thread? Firstly, the small Magyars were not all small but symbolic, and the most accurate way I can explain the actual "small" Magyars is to compare it with the sort of "David and Goliath" or "underdog" lore the West is so fond of... see here and watch closely...

https://youtu.be/1evLPnc8oC0

Second, read the various earlier links where far more samples than four were taken and how they define their terms far better than just "Mongoloid". Each year more and more Magyar conquest era graves are studied and we learn more about our Turkic past.

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You're telling me to watch cartoon network ?

I've read the links and found no data on their anthropological type

" In summary, we successfully defined a Y-chromosomal profile of King Béla III, which can serve as a reference for the identification of further remains and disputed living descendants of the Árpád Dynasty. [um]Among the examined skeletons, we discovered an Árpád member, whose exact affiliation, however, has not yet been established [u]. "


We all know don't know what type of R1a they have.

" There were three R1a and two R1b statistically predicted Y haplogroups among the male skeletons (Table 3). These are the most frequent and second most frequent haplogroups (25.6 and 18.1% respectively) in the present Hungarian population (Völgyi et al. 2009). King Béla III was inferred to belong to haplogroup R1a. The R1a Y haplogroup relates paternally to more than 10% of men in a wide geographic area from South Asia to Central Eastern Europe and South Siberia (Underhill et al. 2010). It is the most frequent haplogroup in various populations speaking Slavic, Indo-Iranian, Dravidian, Turkic and Finno-Ugric languages (Underhill et al. 2010). "

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Originally Posted by ButlerKing

You're telling me to watch cartoon network ?

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Oh? Cannot spend 10 minutes watching something that gives context to the out of context source you quoted from 1943? Are you an expert on our adventures pre-settlement? Something tells me no, which is why you will enjoy the history and story.

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I've read the links and found no data on their anthropological type

" In summary, we successfully defined a Y-chromosomal profile of King Béla III, which can serve as a reference for the identification of further remains and disputed living descendants of the Árpád Dynasty. [um]Among the examined skeletons, we discovered an Árpád member, whose exact affiliation, however, has not yet been established [u]. "


We all know don't know what type of R1a they have.

" There were three R1a and two R1b statistically predicted Y haplogroups among the male skeletons (Table 3). These are the most frequent and second most frequent haplogroups (25.6 and 18.1% respectively) in the present Hungarian population (Völgyi et al. 2009). King Béla III was inferred to belong to haplogroup R1a. The R1a Y haplogroup relates paternally to more than 10% of men in a wide geographic area from South Asia to Central Eastern Europe and South Siberia (Underhill et al. 2010). It is the most frequent haplogroup in various populations speaking Slavic, Indo-Iranian, Dravidian, Turkic and Finno-Ugric languages (Underhill et al. 2010). "

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I've read it, yes. We are all waiting for the downstream. The fact it is R1 is intriguing in and of itself. The R1b branches will be nice to learn too.

Now enjoy your Hungarian lesson. You will better appreciate your context when watching it.

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

That is the debate. Just like the Kabars joined us and of course are now Magyars, the question is if the Székely people were a fellow Turkic tribe as well or (and this seems more legend) if they were the settled Huns who joined us during the conquest. I have heard some theories about them being Avar remnants or Avar mixed as well. As I've said my friend, I will gain more links for you that are not only wikipedia parroting garbage, haha.

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Where is the debate? Only the origin of their name and status debated scientifically today. From a Turkic tribal name (skl or eszkil, for example Róna-Tas) or from the Hungarian administrative organization (szék). From a subjugated border guard elements or they were free warriors (várjobbágy) in the 10-11th century. Their ethnicization or the ethnicization of their absolute majority is not a debate anymor: they were ethnic magyars since the beginnings (Hungarian conquest), beacause there are evidences onto this only.

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Originally Posted by blogen

Where is the debate? Only the origin of their name and status debated scientifically today. From a Turkic tribal name (skl or eszkil, for example Róna-Tas) or from the Hungarian administrative organization (szék). From a subjugated border guard elements or they were free warriors (várjobbágy) in the 10-11th century. Their ethnicization or the ethnicization of their absolute majority is not a debate anymor: they were ethnic magyars since the beginnings (Hungarian conquest), beacause there are evidences onto this only.

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You stated it already: if they were subjugated border guard elements what were they subjugated from? I never said once they are not Magyars. My mother's family is of this ancestry. The Turkic tribal name is important to our own Turkic identity and components as Magyars as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

Oh? Cannot spend 10 minutes watching something that gives context to the out of context source you quoted from 1943? Are you an expert on our adventures pre-settlement? Something tells me no, which is why you will enjoy the history and story.



I've read it, yes. We are all waiting for the downstream. The fact it is R1 is intriguing in and of itself. The R1b branches will be nice to learn too.

Now enjoy your Hungarian lesson. You will better appreciate your context when watching it.

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Why would I want to watch a cartoon show with a Hungarian language ? I've watched 55 secs of that video and do not find anything interesting.

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Originally Posted by ButlerKing

Why would I want to watch a cartoon show with a Hungarian language ? I've watched 55 secs of that video and do not find anything interesting.

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Haha, now I am tempted to say you are being a troll. The video displays just what you were so mistaken about. Ironically it does so using medieval miniatures. Here I thought you'd appreciate that given your out of context quote.

At 5:00 specifically is your explanation of the "small Hungarians" in the David and Goliath sense, while throughout the video you see the "smallness" of the way they are treated and seen. It is visual. You will understand your poor context then.

If you can't give it a few minutes of your time then how can we have a discussion on it?

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

You stated it already: if they were subjugated border guard elements what were they subjugated from?

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From the free status! There were dozens of various tribal origin groups on this task, maybe a social origin caste was one of them. The székely name is similar origin than the tolmács word (from the Pecheneg talmács/tulmátzoi tribal name) in this case.

But the social origin caste in the service of the royal administration is the probable option in this case.

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I never said once they are not Magyars. My mother's family is of this ancestry. The Turkic tribal name is important to our own Turkic identity and components as Magyars as a whole.

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The Turkic tribal name is only baseless speculation based on the similarity between the two names. Grammatically works (Róna-Tas), but the Hungarian administrative division name: szék was much more better option.

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Originally Posted by Turul Karom

Haha, now I am tempted to say you are being a troll. The video displays just what you were so mistaken about. Ironically it does so using medieval miniatures. Here I thought you'd appreciate that given your out of context quote.

At 5:00 specifically is your explanation of the "small Hungarians" in the David and Goliath sense, while throughout the video you see the "smallness" of the way they are treated and seen. It is visual. You will understand your poor context then.

If you can't give it a few minutes of your time then how can we have a discussion on it?

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I couldn't bear to watch all of it so I skipped a minute or two everytime I allowed myself to watch it for 2-3 seconds, it's horrible.. How can annoying watch some paper cartoon for the entire 9 minutes. I don't understand any part of the video.

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Originally Posted by ButlerKing

I couldn't bear to watch all of it so I skipped a minute or two everytime I allowed myself to watch it for 2-3 seconds, it's horrible.. How can annoying watch some paper cartoon for the entire 9 minutes. I don't understand any part of the video.

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I literally laughed.

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Originally Posted by Stearsolina

In Hungary (and Croatia) group with most Z93 are local Gypsies. Yes, not trolling!

Hungarian and Croatian Gypsies are 30% R1a1- Z93! If Arpad is that, they are more related with them paternally than most of other people in Carpathian Basin.

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That's completely normal. R1a-Z93 is Aryan, brought to İndia by Aryan conquerors, same as R1b brought to Americas by Whites. Turkic R1a-Z93 is the result of fusing with Scythians (like happened in Hungarian confederation, Ugrics and Turkics fused).