What are the "German East" samples on G25 Vahaduo?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

East European admixture in some Volga German means they recently mixed with non Germans. While in east Germans it is not, it is part of their native German DNA, from ethnogenesis in medieval times. That's the difference.

---

I know about East Germans/Prussians. I assumed it was similar for Volgas based off the results I saw

So Leipzigers are literally more eastern shifted than Austrians, literally the people of the "Eastern realm" or Osterreich.

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.7588% / 0.00758811
73.0 French_Alsace
27.0 Russian_Kursk

Target: German_East
Distance: 1.5210% / 0.01520983
40.6 Russian_Kursk
39.8 French_Alsace
19.6 Dutch

Well well well...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

His model isn't good because German average he is using includes some east German samples.
G25 modern averages are terrible, no idea why anyone is using them. Czech average is heavily German shifted too (probably from Prague)

Updated K13 is million light years ahead when it comes to moderns.

---

I agree with this: G25 is the best calculator for ancient ancestry (their modern populations are little off) and K13 Updated for modern ancestry, since they were more carefully curated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Borealis

So Leipzigers are literally more eastern shifted than Austrians, literally the people of the "Eastern realm" or Osterreich.

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.7588% / 0.00758811
73.0 French_Alsace
27.0 Russian_Kursk

Target: German_East
Distance: 1.5210% / 0.01520983
40.6 Russian_Kursk
39.8 French_Alsace
19.6 Dutch

Well well well...

---

According to K13 Updated East Germans are really East-Central European shifted, while Austrians are somewhat different, but they also have strong East-Central European admixture, while both are notable outliers among the German-speaking world:

Target: German_East
Distance: 0.8006% / 0.80060763 | ADC: 0.25x RC
68.9 Czech
16.2 Sweden_Svealand_East
9.2 Austrian
5.7 French_Basque

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.9050% / 0.90497091 | ADC: 0.25x RC
42.0 German_East
32.9 French_Alsace
20.1 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.5 German
1.5 Avar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Borealis

So Leipzigers are literally more eastern shifted than Austrians, literally the people of the "Eastern realm" or Osterreich.

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.7588% / 0.00758811
73.0 French_Alsace
27.0 Russian_Kursk

Target: German_East
Distance: 1.5210% / 0.01520983
40.6 Russian_Kursk
39.8 French_Alsace
19.6 Dutch

Well well well...

---

Doesn't mean anything, Austrian average is academic and mix of all regions. There are southern Austrians who are more Slavic than east Germans from Leipzig (Noricum for example).
You were already told not to use G25 for moderns. Neither is Austrian average very useful (some Austrians plot like Bavarians and Swiss, while some are heavily Slavic), neither is this German Leipzig average that useful either.

East Germans have way more genetic diversity than that and important thing to mention is that Leipzig average has significant southern (Celtic) pull, something many regions further north lack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunai

Yeah, according to K13 Updated East Germans are really East-Central European shifted, while Austrians are somewhat different, but they also have strong East-Central European admixture, while both are notable outliers among the German-speaking world:

Target: German_East
Distance: 0.8006% / 0.80060763 | ADC: 0.25x RC
68.9 Czech
16.2 Sweden_Svealand_East
9.2 Austrian
5.7 French_Basque

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.9050% / 0.90497091 | ADC: 0.25x RC
42.0 German_East
32.9 French_Alsace
20.1 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.5 German
1.5 Avar

---

These are same academic averages, they are poor. Soon we will have German regional averages. "East Germans" are very diverse. People from Mecklenburg can be 70% proto Germanic and more Germanic than vast majority of west Germans/Belgians/English/south Dutch, they are east Germans too. Some East Prussians can be Lithuanian like. Those from Saxony are three way mix of Celts, Germanics and Slavs. Etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

These are same academic averages, they are poor. Soon we will have German regional averages. "East Germans" are very diverse. People from Mecklenburg can be 70% proto Germanic and more Germanic than vast majority of west Germans/Belgians/English/south Dutch, they are east Germans too. Some East Prussians can be Lithuanian like. Those from Saxony are three way mix of Celts, Germanics and Slavs. Etc.

---

I definitely really anticipating these new German averages. I had a feeling these two averages aren't on the same level with other averages on K13, but since we have no others, that's why I use them. I have a feeling there are regional differences even among Austrians, just like among Hungarians or any other nationalities between 5-10 million people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunai

I definitely really anticipating these new German averages. I had a feeling these two averages aren't on the same level with other averages on K13, but since we have no others, that's why I use them. I have a feeling there are regional differences even among Austrians, just like among Hungarians or any other nationalities between 5-10 million people.

---

Coming soon :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Some East Prussians can be Lithuanian like.

---

They are probably not ethnic Germans but these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Lithuanians

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Soon we will have German regional averages.

---

Is there an upcoming study? Or non-academic samples?

^^^^non academic samples with 4/4 grandparents of the same region.