Actual Importance of Haplogroups

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Originally Posted by Universe

2002, different times: https://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/20/u...geography.html


Today we have commercial autosomal dna tests and calculators like gedmatch to measure genetic similarities between different groups, but you probably think that's fake or something. (You're way too fanatic). BTW the DNA responsible for looks is not the only DNA that we share with people who come from same ethnicity as us.

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Yes that’s what they are Commercial. They are not used by professionals. The way they work is they compare your autosomal dna with samples they have to see which they look similar too and give you ethnicity based on that. That’s not how society worked back then with patrilineal tribes.

I’m not denying autosomal but it’s useless and is a fun science for people that want to know where they’re from in a simpler way. What do you think sells more, a percentage of what you are or random letters denoting your haplogroup? Of course people will want the fancy numbers to see where they’re from when it’s useless.

Yes they will tell you genetic similarities but that means nothing genetically. You still share around 1.9% to 2% with members of your haplogroup making you second cousins while sharing the same grandfather like a tribe or family, the modern concept of “race” is inaccurate and a fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Touijer

Commercial DNA tests don’t include the Y chromosome when checking relatedness. It’s simple. Your Y chromosome represents 2% of your entire genome, people from the same haplogroup share around 90-100% of the full Y dna including its unique mutations & genetic material. In short you have the same 2% as someone else from your haplogroup.

If they included Y dna to check matches, everyone would have millions of match with second cousins. The dna you see is shared in commercial companies is also taken from chromosomes to check relatedness, like the Y chromosome, except the Y chromosome has no junk dna.

Here are some articles that link haplogroup with cardiac diseases:

R1B Haplogroup Linked to Higher Risk of Early Heart Attacks

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10381015/

R1b Haplogroup and Its Link to Heart Attack Susceptibility

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793196/

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Is that 2% of the entire human genome? Or 2% of just what the commercial companies test for? Since most of the commercial companies like 23&me only test a fraction of the entire human genome.

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Originally Posted by chinshen

Is that 2% of the entire human genome? Or 2% of just what the commercial companies test for? Since most of the commercial companies like 23&me only test a fraction of the entire human genome.

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Entire genome, because it's XY in the 23rd pair. So you get one X from each parent to form a pair of XX for each chr. but your 23rd chr. has XY, the Y coming from your father.

Commercial companies test for 600K SNPs or so, that's less than 1% of your total genome, you need a whole genome sequence to test the total.

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Originally Posted by eupator

Entire genome, because it's XY in the 23rd pair. So you get one X from each parent to form a pair of XX for each chr. but your 23rd chr. has XY, the Y coming from your father.

Commercial companies test for 600K SNPs or so, that's less than 1% of your total genome, you need a whole genome sequence to test the total.

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Thank you for your answer, in that case the percentage of Y chromosome would add up to much more than 2% of what the commercial companies test factoring 600K SNPs instead of the 3 Billion.

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Originally Posted by Universe

People tend to share more DNA with people who come from the same ethnic/racial background than with people who come from different background. That's why they tend look more similar to each other than to people from other backgrounds (similar looks are result of shared DNA). This is quite obvious when you compare Swedes to Nigerians and not so obvious when you compare Swedes to Germans because the genetic distance is lower in that case. It's ridiculous that you focus on that 2% but ignore the 98%. That I share less DNA with my 3rd cousins than with a black man who has the same HG as me, is just your personal idea.

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It’s not my personal idea but the facts. I think your problem is you don’t want to be associated with black people. Genetically me and the African-American man have the same grandfather, share 2% making us second cousins and thousands of mutations. You only need 2 mutations for blue eyes.

If we add the context as well that the haplogroup came from the steppes and immigrated to Europe as a tribe and were all patriarchal like Yamnayas, Bell Beakers or even Corded ware then there is your answer. The modern racial ethnicity you hold on to is meaningless and you need to look at it from a tribe/family perspective not modern ethnicities.

You can keep denying all you want

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Originally Posted by Touijer

Haplo-cousins? They’re your cousins and with more impact

What is the remaining 98%? You tell me. You share 50% of that with your parents, siblings and 12.5% with your first cousin. I really am curious where you think that the 98% means a Swedish neighbor??

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Hey it's not goatfucker land where people copulate with their cousins and siblings here. In the real world your direct ancestors are your parents and grandparents. Your parents accounts for 50+50, your grand parents for 25% each and so on as the tree grows down. Your first cousin could be half Chinese or Black or whatever for all we know. Your parents can't be that, or you would be proportionally too. Cousins are not in your line of ancestors, that's what really matters, let's remember that. Cousins are like the leaves on the sides, while your ancestors are the branch, and you are the tip of it.

Sounds like obvious sauce but apparently it needs to be restated for the challenged minds around about every 3 years when we reset the Matrix on Apricity.




Now let's be serious for a minute and see what the reality is. There are a few reasons people in general get hung up on haplos:

1) First they are kind of cool, and unique. You get a special code for yourself, if you dig deeper you get many letters and numbers. Almost like a Terminator identification tag. Neat.

2) It's something you can easily associate with a group of people around the world, so more than others, but in general people will see that if you are R1 let's say, you have a good chance of being European since it's overwhelmingly the dominant lineage pretty much everywhere in Europe. Same for E or O, etc...and it's usually the first thing you can easily wrap your head around when you don't understand anything about genetic. It's as much ignorance as it is "laziness" and a feel good simplification in an otherwise very complex field. Unfortunately females can't partake since they don't have a Y and almost nobody cares about mt's. Sad face. That should already tell you how important it truely is at that point.

3) Advocating for the importance of the Y, makes it look like you are really badass because only men should count and in traditionnal folklore, the man's family is seen as the dominant one, which turns that way the moment he has a son. It used to be what Rethel was stuttering all day about, only the males count from the paternal side, everybody else ghosted.

4) People who will get an "interesting" haplo for their background is the vast majority of the time individually a draw of luck with just different odds, as pretty much all haplos and even most subclades exist in almost all the countries in Europe, will feel more special and different, at least than what your nationality suggest or what you appear to be. So you want it to matter and it's the easiest escape route from your background (Touijer probably thinks he's white cause he's R). In the same tune "Bro im ethnically Bulgarian but im U106, i must be of super NW descent", in some sort of weird self convincing manifestation, and likely even OWD (cause it never goes the other way around). Nobody parades his EV13 like it's a pride in these circles or it matters anymore, except in an attempt of forced self depreciating humor.


1 and 2 are fine, we ve all been there. 3 is scientifically and spiritually dumb but somewhat understandable in this day and age. 4th is really where the mental fuckery goes deep. Let's say you are from somewhere in the Balkans but your haplo is associated with a super fancy origin or ancient group of conquerors in chariots, masters of crops or spears... whatever you kink is. It doesn't detract from the fact most of what you are made of by your direct ancestors for thousands of years, will align with the haplogroups breakdown of the region you are from, since your beloved paternal lineage has been intertwined each generation with other people's background and haplos that leaded one step closer to you. If you were able to test all your tree leading to you, we would find a proportion regressing to the average of this area, many E as its the case in the Balkans for example. You are x,y,z but sorry most of your ancestors still have been molded by your local distribution of haplos and more relevantly their admixtures. Which is how genetic testing exists in the first place, the demonstrated assumption that people of the same country, and furthermore the same region are, on average, more related and closer ethnically to each others than other parts, regions and countries of the world.




Nevertheless it's very useful to track and make comprehensive assumptions about ancient population movements, genealogy and few cool stories, but for yourself and from an ethnic standpoint, which is what people are really interested in usually in these discusions (let's not kid ourselves), it's not that relevant im afraid.

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Originally Posted by Petalpusher

that if you are R let's say, you have a good chance of being European since it's overwhelmingly the dominant lineage pretty much everywhere in Europe.

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That’s what I’m against. If you’re R you’re not automatically European or White. The term European and White is inaccurate genetically and means nothing. R is like a tribe itself. The history of the haplogroup is based on coming to Europe, being patriarchal and marrying local women.

The R1b tribes that came in Europe weren’t white (as if this means anything genetically), so why are we saying it’s a white haplogroup? They acted like a tribe and were patrilineal, people can’t grasp that modern nations is a joke

If you’re R, you’re not automatically European or white, but that’s only because European or white means nothing and genetically you are closed to other R’s then Europeans with other haplogroups.

The term European is similar to Canadian or American, means nothing genetically, same thing with whiteness.

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Originally Posted by Touijer

That’s what I’m against. If you’re R you’re not automatically European or White. The term European and White is inaccurate genetically and means nothing. R is like a tribe itself. The history of the haplogroup is based on coming to Europe, being patriarchal and marrying local women.

The R1b tribes that came in Europe weren’t white (as if this means anything genetically), so why are we saying it’s a white haplogroup? They acted like a tribe and were patrilineal, people can’t grasp that modern nations is a joke

If you’re R, you’re not automatically European or white, but that’s only because European or white means nothing and genetically you are closed to other R’s then Europeans with other haplogroups.

The term European is similar to Canadian or American, means nothing genetically, same thing with whiteness.

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European does mean something genetically, so cut that bullshit. There are ethnically European peoples just as there are ethnically Sub-Saharan African, East Asian or Polynesian ones. American is a nationality whereas there is no European nationality, it means being from the continent of Europe.

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Originally Posted by Leto

European does mean something genetically, so cut that bullshit. There are ethnically European peoples just as there are ethnically Sub-Saharan African, East Asian or Polynesian ones. American is a nationality whereas there is no European nationality, it means being from the continent of Europe.

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Being European is akin to being African or Asian. These terms are used today and hold no significance. What do Europeans have in common genetically? It’s good talking but it’s better backing it with evidence.

I’m tired of repeating the same things over and over, this should be basic knowledge. What separates you from Americans that people consider as lacking knowledge thinking that Africa and Asia are actual unified countries?

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Originally Posted by Touijer

Being European is akin to being African or Asian. These terms are used today and hold no significance. What do Europeans have in common genetically? It’s good talking but it’s better backing it with evidence.

I’m tired of repeating the same things over and over, this should be basic knowledge. What separates you from Americans that people consider as lacking knowledge thinking that Africa and Asia are actual unified countries?

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You are obviously some kind of brown anti-white Muslim who holds a grudge against Europeans. I don't know if you're a sockpuppet of someone banned but I can see you through pretty clearly. So my advice for you would be to get the fuck out!