Croat K13 regional (and national) averages

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukasz

But on this map most eastern province was partly repopulated after '90 Balkan wars when most Serbs from it left. I don't think he checked if his Croats from eastern Slavonia are autochtonous. Maybe some Dalmatians settled there.

Another case if we can trust those averages on this map.

Serbs actually left west Slavonia after operation Flash. East Slavonia was peacefully reintegrated in 1998 and one of conditions was to leave Serbian population there.
I think east Slavonia may be darker because it had big Danube Swabian population (west Slavonia did not),and after Germans were expelled lot ofcolonists from dinaric alps moved in the region.
Both Serbs and Croats. This happened after WW2. Due to hunger for example lot of Dalmatian and Herzegovians were moved there.

But recently no influx from south came. Now people are leaving Slavonia, you are more likely to find Slavonian in Rijeka or Split than the opposite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Serbs actually left west Slavonia after operation Flash. East Slavonia was peacefully reintegrated in 1998 and one of conditions was to leave Serbian population there.
I think east Slavonia may be darker because it had big Danube Swabian population (west Slavonia did not),and after Germans were expelled lot ofcolonists from dinaric alps moved in the region.
Both Serbs and Croats. This happened after WW2. Due to hunger for example lot of Dalmatian and Herzegovians were moved there.

But recently no influx from south came. Now people are leaving Slavonia, you are more likely to find Slavonian in Rijeka or Split than the opposite.

If some Germans in Croatia left? For eample they "croatized" themselves officially (change of surnames etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukasz

If some Germans in Croatia left? For eample they "croatized" themselves officially (change of surnames etc).

Yes.:) German surnames are not hard to find in Croatia. Those were mostly urban Germans who croatized, rural Germans had compact and homogenous villages and those are mostly gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

West Slavonia has significant Czech minority. East Slavonia has some autochtonous pockets of population from Middle Ages, but is mainly populated from Bosnian Posavina (that stream was going even before Turkish invasions).
Serbs are there from Turkish times. After expulsion of Turks, East Slavonia is also repopulated by German settlers (who were expelled in majority after WWII). There is also autochtonous Hungarian minority. Majority of Serbs in East Slavonia as far as I know stayed in East Slavonia. It was peacefully integrated in Croatia.

So East Slavonia is mainly comprised of Croats from Bosnian Posavina while West Slavonia is mainly comprised of autochthonous Croats?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mingle

So East Slavonia is mainly comprised of Croats from Bosnian Posavina while West Slavonia is mainly comprised of autochthonous Croats?

West Slavonian population is according to their origin very mixed. It was part of Military border.
There in Turkish times came Serbs, but after conquest it was repopulated from different parts of Austria-Hungary, for example by the Czechs and Slovaks.
Autochtonous Medieval population are only some pockets of Kaykavians in its northern and western part (around Kutina and Virovitica) and a population with distant origin (in past) from Bosnian Posavina (Požega and Brod Posavina).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

West Slavonian population is according to their origin very mixed. It was part of Military border.
There in Turkish times came Serbs, but after conquest it was repopulated from different parts of Austria-Hungary, for example by the Czechs and Slovaks.
Autochtonous Medieval population are only some pockets of Kaykavians in its northern and western part (around Kutina and Virovitica) and a population with distant origin (in past) from Bosnian Posavina (Požega and Brod Posavina).

this person is from the area between Slatina and Našice, also 1/8 from Gorski Kotar and 1/8 Hungarian.

Code:

Admix Results (sorted): # Population Percent 1 Baltic 33.45 2 North_Atlantic 32.37 3 West_Med 14.4 4 East_Med 9.09 5 West_Asian 6.37 6 Red_Sea 1.6 7 Siberian 1.32 8 Amerindian 0.59 9 Oceanian 0.31 10 East_Asian 0.24 11 South_Asian 0.2 12 Northeast_African 0.07 Single Population Sharing: # Population (source) Distance 1 Hungarian 2.67 2 East_German 5.32 3 Croatian 5.4 4 Austrian 5.56 5 Moldavian 7.69 6 South_Polish 8.79 7 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.55 8 Serbian 9.56 9 Ukrainian 10.58 10 Polish 12.36 11 West_German 13.61 12 Romanian 13.92 13 North_Swedish 14.66 14 South_Dutch 14.7 15 Southwest_Russian 14.79 16 Southwest_Finnish 15.03 17 North_German 15.1 18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.27 19 Russian_Smolensk 15.43 20 Estonian_Polish 15.92 Mixed Mode Population Sharing: # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance 1 61.3% Southwest_Russian + 38.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.56 2 60.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.6 3 78.3% Croatian + 21.7% Southeast_English @ 1.66 4 62.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.67 5 74.4% South_Polish + 25.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.72 6 50.8% Croatian + 49.2% Austrian @ 1.73 7 72.9% South_Polish + 27.1% Portuguese @ 1.75 8 61.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 38.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.76 9 74.8% South_Polish + 25.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.76 10 79% Croatian + 21% Orcadian @ 1.78 11 65.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 34.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.81 12 54.2% Southwest_Russian + 45.8% French @ 1.81 13 80.2% Croatian + 19.8% Southwest_English @ 1.82 14 62.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.85 15 74.2% Croatian + 25.8% South_Dutch @ 1.86 16 63.5% Southwest_Russian + 36.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.87 17 62.3% Southwest_Russian + 37.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.9 18 80.7% Croatian + 19.3% West_Scottish @ 1.92 19 64.2% Southwest_Russian + 35.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.92 20 63.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 36.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.93

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

this person is from the area between Slatina and Našice, also 1/8 from Gorski Kotar and 1/8 Hungarian.

May I see their Dodecad? How much NE and AM.

^^^Do I have this kit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

May I see their Dodecad? How much NE and AM.

here

Population
Gedrosia 4.24 Pct
Siberian 1.01 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.38 Pct
Atlantic_Med 27.36 Pct
North_European 47.12 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.54 Pct
East_Asian 0.18 Pct
Caucasus 16.15 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

here

Population
Gedrosia 4.24 Pct
Siberian 1.01 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 0.38 Pct
Atlantic_Med 27.36 Pct
North_European 47.12 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.54 Pct
East_Asian 0.18 Pct
Caucasus 16.15 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: ~
1.55775479 Hungarians
4.77324837 Croat
6.13815119 Bosnian
7.49959999 R.Moldova_Centre+North
8.94271212 HUN_Szekely
8.94858089 Sorb_Lusatia
9.34048179 German
9.86327025 Serb
10.00658283 Ukrainian
12.43364790 Rus_Smolensk
12.66657807 PL_Mazovia
13.46286374 Rus_Kostroma
13.69754358 Montenegrin
15.07594773 Rus_Tver
15.20227615 Southwest_Rus
16.00184677 Macedonian
16.73901431 Mixed_Germanic
16.99844110 Pomak
17.06911245 Romanians
17.63055870 Dutch

Target: ~
Distance: 1.3827% / 1.38270771 | ADC: 1x
95.8 Hungarians
4.2 Croat

Target: ~
Distance: 1.0266% / 1.02657137 | ADC: 0.5x
83.8 Hungarians
15.4 Croat
0.8 German

Target: ~
Distance: 0.6306% / 0.63056815 | ADC: 0.25x
79.8 Hungarians
11.6 Croat
4.8 German
3.2 HUN_Szekely
0.4 Saudis
0.2 Ket

Maybe Dushan was right saying the Croat average on Dodecad is a bit too Southern. But I cannot correct it myself even if that's the case.

Well this person has very above average North Atlantic for a Croat.
It's definitely north shifted from average.

I'd include her/him in Slavonian Croat average, because I don't look further than 4 grandparents born in same region and 1/8 foreign ancestry I accept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

West Slavonian population is according to their origin very mixed. It was part of Military border.
There in Turkish times came Serbs, but after conquest it was repopulated from different parts of Austria-Hungary, for example by the Czechs and Slovaks.
Autochtonous Medieval population are only some pockets of Kaykavians in its northern and western part (around Kutina and Virovitica) and a population with distant origin (in past) from Bosnian Posavina (Požega and Brod Posavina).

Well, based on this, it seems like the two regions of Slavonia had different population movements and should be given separate averages (once there are enough samples). I'd expect West Slavonia Croats to score like other North Croats while East Slavonia Croats would probably score more like Bosnian Croats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

West Slavonian population is according to their origin very mixed. It was part of Military border.
There in Turkish times came Serbs, but after conquest it was repopulated from different parts of Austria-Hungary, for example by the Czechs and Slovaks.
Autochtonous Medieval population are only some pockets of Kaykavians in its northern and western part (around Kutina and Virovitica) and a population with distant origin (in past) from Bosnian Posavina (Požega and Brod Posavina).

Those Czech and Slovaks are assimilated to Croat body now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mingle

Well based on this, it seems like the two regions of Slavonia had different population movements and should be given separate averages (once there are enough samples). I'd expect West Slavonia Croats to score like other North Croats while East Slavonia Croats would probably score more like Bosnian Croats.

Hopefully soon I will have results of another east Slavonian Croat.
Woman I ordered test for is from these 2 locations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cepin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka,_...Baranja_County

She belongs to Šokac Croat subgroup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukasz

Those Czech and Slovaks are assimilated to Croat body now?

I think in majority. Today is 10 000 people with such self-identification. They have also their representative in Croatian Parliament.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Maybe Dushan was right saying the Croat average on Dodecad is a bit too Southern. But I cannot correct it myself even if that's the case.

I am always right. :)

According to that silly average, I am closer to it than ph2ter is, and that situation is ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

I am always right. :)

According to that silly average, I am closer to it than ph2ter is, and that situation is ridiculous.

Nothing ridiculous about that. He is most northern shifted Croats can get more of less while your results are pretty average except lower north atlantic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Nothing ridiculous about that. He is most northern shifted Croats can get more of less while your results are pretty average except lower north atlantic.

He is average for NW Croats, who are always underestimated in counting of Croatian average.
Insisting on dalmatian and herzegovian results is pushing Croats closer to Serbs and away from Hungarians.

And no, I am not average, because, beside my very low N.Atlantic, my K13 west Med (Vlach) blood is higher than any Croatian average.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

I am always right. :)

According to that silly average, I am closer to it than ph2ter is, and that situation is ridiculous.

We will replace it if a better one is available. Maybe some academic samples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

He is average for NW Croats, who are always underestimated in counting of Croatian average.
Insisting on dalmatian and herzegovian results is pushing Croats closer to Serbs and away from Hungarians.

And no, I am not average, because, beside my very low N.Atlantic, my K13 west Med (Vlach) blood is higher than any Croatian average.

It depends, my father is only 1/8 NW Croat and his second closest population are Alfold Hungarians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

We will replace it if a better one is available. Maybe some academic samples.

That one is from academic samples if I am not mistaken and it is pretty decent.

My criteria for sample collection is as following:

1) Needs to be 7/8 Croat by ancestry minimum, highest foreign input I accept is 1/8 and it must be from historical minority in the region
2) all 4 grandparents need to be born in the region to be included to specific regional average, otherwise it will only be in general average

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Distance to: ~
1.55775479 Hungarians
4.77324837 Croat
6.13815119 Bosnian
7.49959999 R.Moldova_Centre+North
8.94271212 HUN_Szekely
8.94858089 Sorb_Lusatia
9.34048179 German
9.86327025 Serb
10.00658283 Ukrainian
12.43364790 Rus_Smolensk
12.66657807 PL_Mazovia
13.46286374 Rus_Kostroma
13.69754358 Montenegrin
15.07594773 Rus_Tver
15.20227615 Southwest_Rus
16.00184677 Macedonian
16.73901431 Mixed_Germanic
16.99844110 Pomak
17.06911245 Romanians
17.63055870 Dutch

Target: ~
Distance: 1.3827% / 1.38270771 | ADC: 1x
95.8 Hungarians
4.2 Croat

Target: ~
Distance: 1.0266% / 1.02657137 | ADC: 0.5x
83.8 Hungarians
15.4 Croat
0.8 German

Target: ~
Distance: 0.6306% / 0.63056815 | ADC: 0.25x
79.8 Hungarians
11.6 Croat
4.8 German
3.2 HUN_Szekely
0.4 Saudis
0.2 Ket

Maybe Dushan was right saying the Croat average on Dodecad is a bit too Southern. But I cannot correct it myself even if that's the case.

Well it was always known that we have a shortage of North Croats. They're samples we've been looking for a while now. So far, the only full North Croats I've seen are ph2ter and his family.

But even if we get several more full North Croats, they will always be very underrepresented since South Croats are MUCH more likely to take DNA tests. The only way for them to be properly represented is if we take their average and multiply it by their percentage within Croatia's population and then do the same thing with the other subgroups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mingle

Well it was always known that we have a shortage of North Croats. They're samples we've been looking for a while now. So far, the only full North Croats I've seen are ph2ter and his family.

But even if we get several more full North Croats, they will always be very underrepresented since South Croats are MUCH more likely to take DNA tests. The only way for them to be properly represented is if we take their average and multiply it by their percentage within Croatia's population and then do the same thing with the other subgroups.

Depends what you define as northern Croatia. To me everyone with deep ancestry north of Sava river is a northern Croat.
By that I mean persons who have no ancestry south from Sava river at all (that river was border or Roman provinces of Panonnia and Dalmatia also)

I did weighted Croatian average before, not exactly in percentages but close to it. It's excellent idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukasz

Those Czech and Slovaks are assimilated to Croat body now?

Yes.

It is not well known, but completly true fact that in the begining of the 20th century 32% of population of todays Croatia were non-Croats.

https://i.imgur.com/M79Wfz4.png

Croats during the ww2 and last war in 90s killed and expelled most of Serbs, expelled all of Italians of Istria, Fiume (Rijeka) and Zara (Zadar), as well as expelled all Germans from eastern Slavonia and Baranja. Rest of minorities, Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians were agressively assimilated.

For example, Pula, Fiume and Zara were majority Italian, while Osijek in Slavonia were majority ethnic German city, according to censuses 1900 and 1910.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

Yes.

It is not well known, but completly true fact that in the begining of the 20th century 32% of population of todays Croatia were non-Croats.

https://i.imgur.com/M79Wfz4.png

Croats during the ww2 and last war in 90s killed and expelled most of Serbs, expelled all of Italians of Istria, Fiume (Rijeka) and Zara (Zadar), as well as expelled all Germans from eastern Slavonia and Baranja. Rest of minorities, Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians were agressively assimilated.

For example, Pula, Fiume and Zara were majority Italian, while Osijek in Slavonia were majority ethnic German city, according to censuses 1900 and 1910.

Please don't spread bullshit, no offense.
Croats didn't expel Germans lol,it was mostly Serb communists who did that and it was mostly Serb dinaric colonists who moved to German houses.
Why would Croats expel Germans, our WW2 allies? Complete nonsense.

There was no any agressive assimilation of Czechs and Slovaks either,it is total lie and they assimilated naturally due to being both Slavic and Catholic.
If you have any proof for your claims post it than.

Croatia never had any official croatisation policy like Italy and yes Serbia had.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbianisation

We never did what you did in Macedonia or Kosvo or what Italians did in Istria.

Also let's not forget colonisation of Croatian Slavonia WW1 Serbian soldiers from Salonica front or colonisation of Croatian coastal cities with JNA Serbian/Montenegrin personnel after WW2.
1/3 of my block in Rijeka consists of ''deca vojnih lica'' from east. You always came to us, never the opposite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

There was no any agressive assimilation of Czechs and Slovaks either,it is total lie and they assimilated naturally due to being both Slavic and Catholic.

How many (more or less) Czechs and Slovak descendants could live now as Croats (not those 10 000 which still feel their ethnicity)? It is tiny percent in Slavonia or 1/10 or more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukasz

How many (more or less) Czechs and Slovak descendants could live now as Croats (not those 10 000 which still feel their ethnicity)? It is tiny percent in Slavonia or 1/10 or more?

It is much more for sure. Probably 100-200 000 Croats have partial Czech background. Slovak much less.
Slavonia received much more Czech than Slovaks, unlike Vojvodina in northern Serbia that received mainly Slovaks.

You can also find Czech surnames easily in bigger cities outside Slavonia (like Zagreb or Rijeka). User Hrvoje has partly Czech roots from his Bosnian Croat side (NE Bosnia near Slavonia)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Please don't spread bullshit, no offense.
Croats didn't expel Germans lol,it was mostly Serb communists who did that and it was mostly Serb dinaric colonists who moved to German houses.
Why would Croats expel Germans, our WW2 allies? Complete nonsense.

There was no any agressive assimilation of Czechs and Slovaks either,it is total lie and they assimilated naturally due to being both Slavic and Catholic.
If you have any proof for your claims post it than.

Croatia never had any official croatisation policy like Italy and yes Serbia had.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbianisation

We never did what you did in Macedonia or Kosvo or what Italians did in Istria.

Serb communists? It was Croat Josip Broz Tito who was the head of Yugoslavia, and who made all desicions.

And no, most of former German setllements in eastern Slavonia and Baranya, were settled by Croats.
Large German villages were Jarmina and Neudorf near Vinkovci, completly settled my Croatian immigrants, as well as Retfala and Josipovac near Osijek.

There are several villages that were partly Croatian partly German, such as Sotin, Lovas, Ilača, Nijemci, near border with Serbia, who became completly Croatian after expulsion of Germans. No Serbs settled there.

Not to mention Baranya, where in towns Beli Manastir (Pelmonostor) and Darda only Serbs, Germans and Hungarians lived, and than Croats replaced Germans.
Villages in Baranya, that where completly German - Čeminac, Grabovac, Kozarac and Petlovac, now are completly Croatian.

Assimilation of Czechs was not voluntary, but result of Croatocentric educational system. Serbia preserve all its ethnic minorities unlike xenophobic Croatia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Also let's not forget colonisation of Croatian Slavonia WW1 Serbian soldiers from Salonica front or colonisation of Croatian coastal cities with JNA Serbian/Montenegrin personnel after WW2.
1/3 of my block in Rijeka consists of ''deca vojnih lica'' from east. You always came to us, never the opposite.

There were virtually zero Croats in Belgrade before creation of Yugoslavia in 1918.
On census 1961. there were 35.000 Croats in Belgrade. Why those immigrants came to Serbia?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

Serb communists? It was Croat Josip Broz Tito who was the head of Yugoslavia, and who made all desicions.

And no, most of former German setllements in eastern Slavonia and Baranya, were settled by Croats.
Large German villages were Jarmina and Neudorf near Vinkovci, completly settled my Croatian immigrants, as well as Retfala and Josipovac near Osijek.

There are several villages that were partly Croatian partly German, such as Sotin, Lovas, Ilača, Nijemci, near border with Serbia, who became completly Croatian after expulsion of Germans. No Serbs settled there.

Not to mention Baranya, where in towns Beli Manastir (Pelmonostor) and Darda only Serbs, Germans and Hungarians lived, and than Croats replaced Germans.
Villages in Baranya, that where completly German - Čeminac, Grabovac, Kozarac and Petlovac, now are completly Croatian.

Assimilation of Czechs was not voluntary, but result of Croatocentric educational system. Serbia preserve all its ethnic minorities unlike xenophobic Croatia.

There were much more Germans in Vojvodina and guess who replaced them-Serbs.
Trying to show Croats wanted to get rid of Germans, our allies, is beyond laughable.

NDH was last German ally in Europe, and yes they wanted so bad to expel Germans? LMAO. Maybe you should write fantasy fiction.
We would very much want Germans back in Slavonia, they were higher quality minority than Serbian troublemakers.

Nope, there was not any planned assimilation of Czechs. If you claim something, you should present evidence.
Czechs have their representative in Croatian parliament, unlike any minority in Serbia, Czech schools and most importantly they defended Croatia togheder with Croats in last war.

Serb war crimes against Czechs of Croatia.They attacked them because Czechs were loyal to their Croatian homeland.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php305254-War-crime-against-Czech-and-Hungarian-minority-committed-by-Serb-rebels-and-Yugoslav-army

You just can't understand what natural assimilation is because Serbs do everything with force.
Serbs even changed surnames of Macedonian Slavs to more Serbian sounding during occupation of that land, this is something completely unimaginable here.

Ofcourse central Europeans won't assimilate with orthodox Serbs who were part of different civilisation for centuries.
However plenty of Vlachs did assimilate into Serbs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

There were virtually zero Croats in Belgrade before creation of Yugoslavia in 1918.
On census 1961. there were 35.000 Croats in Belgrade. Why those immigrants came to Serbia?

Great number indeed. Most likely people married for Serbs and communist officials who worked in Belgrade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

There were much more Germans in Vojvodina and guess who replaced them-Serbs.
Trying to show Croats wanted to get rid of Germans, our allies, is beyond laughable.

NDH was last German ally in Europe, and yes they wanted so bad to expel Germans? LMAO. Maybe you should write fantasy fiction.
We would very much want Germans back in Slavonia, they were higher quality minority than Serbian troublemakers.

Nope, there was not any planned assimilation of Czechs. If you claim something, you should present evidence.
Czechs have their representative in Croatian parliament, unlike any minority in Serbia, Czech schools and most importantly they defended Croatia togheder with Croats in last war.

Serb war crimes against Czechs of Croatia.They attacked them because Czechs were loyal to their Croatian homeland.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php305254-War-crime-against-Czech-and-Hungarian-minority-committed-by-Serb-rebels-and-Yugoslav-army

You just can't understand what natural assimilation is because Serbs do everything with force.
Serbs even changed surnames of Macedonian Slavs to more Serbian sounding during occupation of that land, this is something completely unimaginable here.

Ofcourse central Europeans won't assimilate with orthodox Serbs who were part of different civilisation for centuries.
However plenty of Vlachs did assimilate into Serbs.

Yes, we all know that Croatia was most faithfull Hitler's collaborator.

I am talking about one century of expulsion of non-Croats from todays Croatia, either by Croatian nazi ustaše who killed and expelled Serbs and completly exterminated Jews and Roma in Croatia, either by Croatian communists who expell Italians and Germans.
As a result of that percentage of non-Croats fell from 32% to less than 9%.

Facts are facts. You cannot change these numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

Yes, we all know that Croatia was most faithfull Hitler's collaborator.

I am talking about one century of expulsion of non-Croats from todays Croatia, either by Croatian nazi ustaše who killed and expelled Serbs and completly exterminated Jews and Roma in Croatia, either by Croatian communists who expell Italians and Germans.
As a result of that percentage of non-Croats fell from 32% to less than 9%.

Facts are facts. You cannot change these numbers.

Nope. In early 20th century Croatian lands had different borders than today, without Croat majority Međimurje and Istria and with Serb-majority east Syrmia plus Montenegrin majority Boka kotorska. And I have to correct you that Yugoslav communists expelled Germans, not ''Croatian communists''.

There were never any Croatian communists, only Yugoslav ones who fought for Yugoslavia.

And they are responsible for killing of tens of thousands to more than hundred thousand Croats after WW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Nope. In early 20th century Croatian lands had different borders than today, without Croat majority Međimurje and Istria and with Serb-majority east Syrmia plus Montenegrin majority Boka kotorska. And I have to correct you that Yugoslav communists expelled Germans, not ''Croatian communists''.

There were never any Croatian communists, only Yugoslav ones who fought for Yugoslavia.

And they are responsible for killing of tens of thousands to more than hundred thousand Croats after WW2.

No, that percentage is reffered for territory of todays Croatia, with Istria,Međimurje and Baranya, and without east Srem and Boka.

https://i.imgur.com/ZLvoXW6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/M79Wfz4.png

Facts are facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

No, that percentage is reffered for territory of todays Croatia, with Istria,Međimurje and Baranya, and without east Srem and Boka.

https://i.imgur.com/ZLvoXW6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/M79Wfz4.png

Facts are facts.

Germans are gone, Serb and Italian numbers were greatly reduced while all others are still here, naturally assimilating like in every normal country.

Now tell me how did number of Serbs of Vojvodina increase from tiny 33% to 67% today only in last century?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...y_of_Vojvodina

Ofcourse I know how. I suggest you to clean your own backyard first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Germans are gone, Serb and Italian numbers were greatly reduced while all others are still here, naturally assimilating like in every normal country.

Now tell me how did number of Serbs of Vojvodina increase from tiny 33% to 67% today only in last century?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...y_of_Vojvodina

Ofcourse I know how. I suggest you to clean your own backyard first.

How? By expulsions of Serbs from Croatia, and half of Bosnia-Herzegovina by Croats and Bosnian Muslims.
Thats how number of Serbs in Vojvodina increased.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dušan

How? By expulsions of Serbs from Croatia, and half of Bosnia-Herzegovina by Croats and Bosnian Muslims.
Thats how number of Serbs in Vojvodina increased.

In last census before Yugoslav wars percentage of Serbs in Vojvodina already increased to 57%.
After the wars it increased to current 67%. So, largest Serb population increase happened after WW1 and WW2.

Those are facts.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...nalCode=cjgr20

‘Ethnic cleansing’ in peacetime? Yugoslav/Serb colonization projects in Vojvodina in the twentieth century'

This article deals with post-war population movements affecting Yugoslav Vojvodina in the period between 1918 and 1996, with a strong focus on the first half of the twentieth century. It is argued that many Yugoslav/Serbian political and military leaders considered the aftermaths of wars and wars in the neighbourhood respectively a convenient window of opportunity for ‘adjusting’ the ethnic structure in specific regions according to their visions and ideals. Such an ethnic ‘cleansing’ combined with social engineering occurred in Vojvodina in the years from 1919 to 1922, from 1944 to 1947 and again during the Yugoslav wars of secession in the 1990s. With each of these colonization projects, this ‘most European region of Serbia’ (Aleksandar Popov, Director of the Centre for Regionalism, Novi Sad) became more Serbian on the one hand and less multicultural on the other.

New averages from the results collected by Feiichy, CommonSense, Peterski, Mingle and me.

. North_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian Northeast_Afr Sub-Saharan

Croat_B&H_Bosnia 27.52 32.18 15.42 7.12 13.80 1.50 0.64 0.29 0.62 0.30 0.43 0.07 0.12

Croat_B&H_Herzegovina 24.67 32.93 15.61 8.62 14.05 1.48 0.72 0.19 0.45 0.60 0.41 0.03 0.07

Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia 26.20 31.95 15.68 9.32 12.99 1.71 0.53 0.37 0.37 0.48 0.21 0.11 0.07

Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia 26.19 31.56 16.05 8.45 13.66 1.57 0.49 0.19 0.59 0.53 0.37 0.20 0.12

Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar 31.53 32.48 14.46 7.52 10.28 1.15 0.62 0.29 0.53 0.55 0.31 0.14 0.12

Croat_Croatia_Zagorje 31.65 34.32 13.07 7.78 8.75 1.54 0.74 0.55 0.29 0.82 0.23 0.09 0.16

Croat_Croatia_Istria&Kvarner 26.02 32.70 15.67 7.51 14.51 1.76 0.19 0.46 0.21 0.38 0.51 0.07 0.02

Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj 26.92 32.68 15.74 7.65 13.07 1.54 0.31 0.25 0.54 0.54 0.52 0.14 0.09

Croat_Croatia_Slavonia 28.33 32.94 13.58 8.45 12.75 1.27 0.05 0.24 1.29 0.73 0.34 0.02 0.02

Croat_Croatia_Central 30.20 33.91 14.98 7.32 9.69 1.11 0.84 0.23 0.35 0.44 0.66 0.05 0.28

.	North_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	Northeast_Afr	Sub-Saharan
Croat_B&H_Bosnia	27.52	32.18	15.42	7.12	13.80	1.50	0.64	0.29	0.62	0.30	0.43	0.07	0.12
Croat_B&H_Herzegovina	24.67	32.93	15.61	8.62	14.05	1.48	0.72	0.19	0.45	0.60	0.41	0.03	0.07
Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia	26.20	31.95	15.68	9.32	12.99	1.71	0.53	0.37	0.37	0.48	0.21	0.11	0.07
Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia	26.19	31.56	16.05	8.45	13.66	1.57	0.49	0.19	0.59	0.53	0.37	0.20	0.12
Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar	31.53	32.48	14.46	7.52	10.28	1.15	0.62	0.29	0.53	0.55	0.31	0.14	0.12
Croat_Croatia_Zagorje	31.65	34.32	13.07	7.78	8.75	1.54	0.74	0.55	0.29	0.82	0.23	0.09	0.16
Croat_Croatia_Istria&Kvarner	26.02	32.70	15.67	7.51	14.51	1.76	0.19	0.46	0.21	0.38	0.51	0.07	0.02
Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj	26.92	32.68	15.74	7.65	13.07	1.54	0.31	0.25	0.54	0.54	0.52	0.14	0.09
Croat_Croatia_Slavonia	28.33	32.94	13.58	8.45	12.75	1.27	0.05	0.24	1.29	0.73	0.34	0.02	0.02
Croat_Croatia_Central	30.20	33.91	14.98	7.32	9.69	1.11	0.84	0.23	0.35	0.44	0.66	0.05	0.28