On AF I share 8.4cm with a Hungarian, the Swedish one is 6.0% cm and 3 Germans between 5-6 cm. Yea Swedish and German is probably a noise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Su
Printable View
On AF I share 8.4cm with a Hungarian, the Swedish one is 6.0% cm and 3 Germans between 5-6 cm. Yea Swedish and German is probably a noise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Su
5 CM:
6.9249 - Utah_Mormon, NA12718
5.3927 - Dutch, NL4
4 CM:
4.0204 - Burusho, HGDP00359
5.3927 - Dutch, NL4
4.1383 - French, HGDP00524
4.4629 - Russian, RU4
4.1932 - Utah_Mormon, NA11882
6.9249 - Utah_Mormon, NA12718
This is great, the only problem is I don't have a lot of matches at the 5 CM and 4 CM level. I do have a lot more matches at the 3 CM level of course and it goes along with my known ancestry quite well not to mention the ancient aspects and ancient ancestral components of it.
I dont think 6cM is noise if its so persistent, it could be anything, i know many people with German ancestry migrated into the Ottoman realm during the German settlement of Eastern Europe, Balkan and Caucasus, so it might be via that?Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
http://www.rollintl.com/roll/_images/grsettle.gif
http://www.rollintl.com/roll/grsettle.htm
Would be funny if we both have German ancestry then :thumb001: it could also explain the Swedish and Hungarian match, especially the Swedish one given the high number of Germans who immigrated to Scandinavia during the last 100 years...
I doubt I have German ancestry, maybe they have Anatolian ancestry? I know that my family comes from very isolated villages and they usually keep to themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by evon
Some of my AF matches
3 Full Germans I share with
6.1 cm
5.2cm
5.1cm
7 from Turkey
9.0cm
8.8 cm ( Armenian actually)
8.3cm
6.6cm
6.5cm
5.5cm
5.1cm
4 full Italians
6.6cm
5.8cm
5.3cm
5.3cm
4 full Russians:
7.5cm
5.8cm
5.2cm
5.1cm
1 full Polish
6.6cm
My 4 grandparents at 5 cm:
United States 1.0%
Turkey 0.3%
Italy 0.3%
Russia 0.2%
Poland 0.2%
Germany 0.2%
Australia 0.2%
Sweden 0.1%
Mexico 0.1%
Hungary 0.1%
Denmark 0.1%
Czech Republic 0.1%
Croatia 0.1%
Since people are posting theirs, here's mine.
Portuguese - PT6 (?) - 7.4791
Spanish - HG01529 - 5.6838
Orcadian - HG00113 - 5.1078
Orcadian - HG00102 - 5.049
-------------------------------
French Basque - HGDP01358 - 4.996
Polish - PL1 (Polako) - 4.7466
Turkish - GSM536797 - 4.6729
Moroccan Jewish - GSM536509 - 4.6371
British - UK19 (Graham) - 4.5602
Utah Mormon - NA12762 - 4.3929
Tuscan - NA20541 - 4.3279
Swedish/Norwegian - SENO2 (?) - 4.3118
Irish - IE20 (?) - 4.2518
Swedish - SE28 (?) - 4.2102
North Italian - HGDP01171 - 4.1897
White American - US156 (?) - 4.0743
I match some of these people more than once though.
This is actually quite high German scores, there are very few fully German people on 23andme, my aunt whom has "confirmed" German ancestry only has 0,5% with 3 Segment matches on AF and a few Relative finder cousins. Czech and Polish could here be due to Germany also, Russians are common matches for Turks due to regional bonds, but if any of them show up from around the Volga i would check if they have potential Volga German ancestry also.Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
I dont think you will find much Anatolian ancestry among most Germans (The Ottoman empire was usually a destination for immigration, not Germany), but you might have common Jewish ancestry also...
My granny also comes from a very rural region, yet she has got Roma ancestry ;)
Having multiple segments is usually a sign of closer shared ancestry then singular segments, although their size matters ect, beware thought that 4cM and those above will show up in the 4cM file, so it would seem there are two when looking at the 5cM, but infact its just one..Quote:
Originally Posted by plastictuga
Orangepulp your matches. :)
7.9831 -- Armenian -- GSM536826
5.1973 -- Hungarian -- GSM536626
-----------------------------------------
4.7446 -- Swedish -- SE15
4.5318 -- Balkar -- Balkar42Y
4.5112 -- Vologda Russian -- HGDP00887
4.4193 -- German -- DE27
4.1672 -- Abhkasian -- Abhkasian24Y
4.0357 -- Armenian -- AM176Y
-----------------------------------------
3.9866 -- Vologda_Russian -- HGDP00903
3.9683 -- German -- DE19
3.8623 -- Nogay -- Nogay6Y
3.8127 -- West Greenland -- GSM558761
3.8127 -- West Greenland -- GSM558765
3.7948 -- Mongol -- GSM558858
3.7251 -- Russian -- GSM536913
3.6948 -- Vologda Russian -- HGDP00888
3.6792 -- Turkish -- GSM536802
3.6152 -- Armenian -- AM176Y
3.6103 -- Turkish -- GSM536796
3.5640 -- Kurdish -- Kurd1173Y
3.5588 -- Yemeni Jewish -- GSM536532
I would like to see mine, but i'm too tired. If it's not a lot of work and if someone is able to run it easily then i'm PT2.
If that's the case I wonder how on Earth I got German?? I do know of oral stories of some ancestors coming from Caucasus, I don't know if the German could be via Caucasus or maybe it is Turkic?? You know Turkic people do score North Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by evon
My top Russian match actually has one 4 GP German sharing at 5.8cm in his list.
My Czech match is 5.3cm and Croatia is 7.1cm
I don't have Jewish ancestry and I didn't score any Ashkenazi on AF.
Is it orally known or you found out from DNA test?Quote:
My granny also comes from a very rural region, yet she has got Roma ancestry
Thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
2 Germans
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepulp
I would pay more attention to DNA then oral stories, oral stories tend to be too frequently changed to fit the needs or wants of the people who transmit them, just look at the elaborate stories told my most royal families, including the Ottomans who claimed distant ancestry with Muhammed among others.
Turkic speaking peoples in central Asia could have Germany ancestry from the Mongol period onwards, but i think this would be limited to peoples in Mongolia proper and China, maybe also in the middle east (the Mongol's shipped German miners and metal craftsmen to eastern asia);
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...Medieval_ChinaQuote:
In 1253, the Franciscan monk William of Rubruck reported numerous Europeans in Central Asia. He described German prisoners who had been enslaved in iron mines. In Karakorum, the Mongol capital, he met with a Parisian, Guillaume de Buchier, and a woman named Pâquette, from the French city of Metz, both of them having been captured in Hungary during the Mongol invasions there. Hungarians and Russians are also mentioned. It is also known that 30,000 Alans formed the guard of the Mongol court in Pekin.[1]
But my guess is this connection is from one of several possible sources;
- Immigration into the Ottoman realms (Balkan?) by German migrants(my best guess).
- German slaves captured by the Barbary corsairs (they even raided Iceland).
- German person coming to the middle east during pax Mongolica as a craftsman (we know of Chinese peoples also coming to the region):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquestsQuote:
One thousand northern Chinese engineer squads accompanied the Mongol Khan Hulagu during his conquest of the Middle East.[4][5]
My grandmother does not have oral stories of having Roma ancestry, but DNA dosnt lie. Its funny though as my grandmothers husband (my grandfather) has oral stories of having potential Swedish Tater ancestry (Taters are local travellers with distant roots to Roma, they came to Norway/Sweden in the 15-1600's and are mostly assimilated), but he seems rather to have East Asian ancestry (Volga Tatars, Uzbeks, Manchurian ect) then South Asian if judging by his son's (my uncle) DNA results.
Ah, thanks. I understand, the multiple ones show up at the different sizes. An example:Quote:
Originally Posted by evon
British,UK23,Portuguese,PT9 2.5335
British,UK23,Portuguese,PT9 2.9586
British,UK23,Portuguese,PT9 3.0164
British,UK23,Portuguese,PT9 2.1028
Same person, but multiple segments.
I'll do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Delarge
Ok, i see what you mean. It all depends on their location if you ask me, generally i am not a big fan of using lower then 4cM due to the age issues involved with such small segments, but in the case of multiple matches like yours i am not sure what to make of it..i have not even looked at my own below 4cM, i will have a peak and see if they make any form of sense to me:)Quote:
Originally Posted by plastictuga
Okay, here you go:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Delarge
PT2
Kent - HG00156 - 5.3382
Cornish - HG00264 - 5.2731
Spanish - HG01500 - 5.09
--------------------------
Spanish - ES25 - 4.9024
Cornish - HG00265 - 4.8011
Sindhi - HGDP00167 - 4.6706
Georgian -GE1 - 4.6448
Swedish - SE33 - 4.5414
Chuvash - GSM536730 - 4.5317
Mozabite Berber - HGDP01256 - 4.2322
Balochi - HGDP00057 - 4.1976
White American - US156 - 4.1795
Spanish - ES24 - 4.1579
Kanjars - evo_35 - 4.1504
Sephardic Jewish - sephardic18bul - 4.0973
It's easier to look for the multiple matches in the 1cm file since it basically just has all the matches. I think it might be helpful for the 4cm and 5cm + matches. Like PT6 is my biggest match with 7.4791, but I match them again at the 3cm level - 3.6638. A few of my other 4cm and 5cm matches are similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by evon
Maybe it can be used when looking for ethnic averages, but i dont feel comfortable using it for "individual" matches..but of course if you match a single individual several times i would check into it:)Quote:
Originally Posted by plastictuga
Can someone run it for me as well ? I m TR23. Thanks :)
I have found when you look at your matches at the 1 CM level you can see where your ancestral components and ancient admixture components are pulled from in the various Eurogenes calculators.
Yeah i noticed that also. In the map Day Tripper made for me, they corresponded very closely with my closest populations. And they also made a ring around the North Sea, which is always my primary component, and then next was the rest of the British Isles which fits with Atlantic/Western Euro being 2nd highest, and then slightly below that is the Baltic region which corresponds with the eastern European (South Baltic + East Euro/Volga). It's pretty fascinating how the components correspond to actual segments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine Celt
TR23Quote:
Originally Posted by Su
Ukrainian - Ukraine133Y - 4.9804
CHB - NA18577 - 4.9297
Mongol - GSM558862 - 4.8501
Utah Mormon - NA12234 - 4.6774
Swedish - SE16 - 4.4629
Ukrainian - UkrLv223Y - 4.6527
Swedish - SE1 - 4.241
Azeri Jewish - AzerbJew204 - 4.0077
1 50% GR +50% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 5.580
2 50% GR +50% NO @ 5.652
3 50% DK +50% GR @ 5.658
4 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +50% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.185
5 50% North_Swedish +50% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.354
6 50% GR +50% North_Swedish @ 6.365
7 50% NO +50% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.469
8 50% DK +50% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.718
9 50% AJ +50% West_&_Central_German @ 6.734
10 50% GR +50% NL @ 6.811
3081 iterations.
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% Druze +25% Tuscan @ 4.497
2 50% NO +25% Druze +25% Tuscan @ 4.703
3 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% Druze +25% North_Italian @ 5.224
4 50% North_Swedish +25% Druze +25% Tuscan @ 5.241
5 50% NO +25% Druze +25% North_Italian @ 5.331
6 50% English +25% Druze +25% Serbian @ 5.379
7 50% NL +25% Druze +25% Serbian @ 5.419
8 50% GR +25% DK +25% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 5.483
9 50% GR +25% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 5.580
10 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% GR +25% GR @ 5.580
113071 iterations.
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Druze + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.497
2 Druze + NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.575
3 Druze + North_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.661
4 Druze + NO + NO + Tuscan @ 4.703
5 Druze + NO + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.709
6 DK + Druze + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.005
7 DK + Druze + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.015
8 DK + Druze + NO + Tuscan @ 5.169
9 Druze + North_Italian + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 5.224
10 Druze + North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.241
11 Druze + NO + North_Italian + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 5.254
12 Druze + NL + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.327
13 Druze + NO + NO + North_Italian @ 5.331
14 Druze + English + NL + Serbian @ 5.347
15 DK + Druze + English + Serbian @ 5.358
16 Druze + English + NO + Serbian @ 5.359
17 Druze + English + English + Serbian @ 5.379
18 DK + Druze + NL + Serbian @ 5.392
19 Druze + English + Serbian + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 5.408
20 Druze + English + North_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.413
Can someone please post my results? :p
I am SAEU1 :)
SAEU1Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Utah Mormon - NA12383 - 7.4727
Kumyk - Kumyk13Y - 5.34
Vologda Russian - HGDP00881 - 5.2437
Cornish - HG00260 - 5.0508
----------------------------------------
White American - US256 - 4.9598
Kent - HG00150 - 4.5908
Kent - HG00137 - 4.2608
French - HGDP00530 - 4.1031
Kent - HG00130 - 4.0867
Utah Mormon - NA11995 - 4.0191
Thanks my dear. This is very kind of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by plastictuga
Ok i got some questions about which software i use and such to make the maps, so here is everything you need to get started:
Picture:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...teppe_belt.jpg
Free online based paint Software:
http://pixlr.com/editor/ (for 4cM segments use brush size 20 and for those above 4cM use size 30)
Hope that will get you started:)
May do a map of the UK, Kent, SW Scotland, Cornwall, Orkneys & Ireland based on your idea.
I am going to make some that focuses on the near east and north africa also, but for the ones ive made so far i tend to stay east of the Volga river and Iran, thus giving you a Eurasian picture:) i think i need to get more good maps though, but its very hard to find them actually..Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
i would love it if you kept to the same dimensions as me, i will remake the Norwegian and Turkish Eurasian maps also following the same 20-30 brush size specs some time soon, was planning to put Swedes and Norwegian matches on the same map to see if they match up..
Ah, so it was just a brush? Cool, thanks for the information.Quote:
Originally Posted by evon
OK, this took a while, i made one for Norwegians, Swedes (over-represented due to large sample), Danes and one Icelander:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/697/skadi.jpg
I found it odd how Swedes matched Tadjiks so much, but the proximity to Chuvash means its regional it seems, same as with Hungarians and Romanians, if the other samples had been as big as Swedes i think we would have seen similar trends, one thing to note is the lack of Nogay matches versus the Romanians and Hungarians...
I was also surprised that no other matched a Tharu like me :( feel so lonely down there on the slopes of Nepal...
Due to the strange patterns seen in central asian population matches in Swedes in the map above, i have decided i will make a reverse map for the peoples in central asia, with matches in Europe and the middle east later after some dinner and a short nap:)
Sounds awesome. Do you think that the number and commonness of these segments (despite the fact they are 4cM so not tiny) is pointing at something more ancient?Quote:
Originally Posted by evon
Was going to try the UK one. But got completely lost. Too many initials, I don't know what they are.
OK here are the Central Asian populations with most 4cM+ matches in Europe and the middle east, west of Iran and the Volga river:
Tadjiks:
http://imageshack.us/a/img267/7169/tadv.jpg
Uzbeks:
http://imageshack.us/a/img210/788/uzbe.jpg
Turkmen:
http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6290/turkm.jpg
Hazara:
http://imageshack.us/a/img824/4084/hazp.jpg
Anyone see any patterns? I think the matches in far western Europe is some old link, the lack of Norwegian matches is very interesting versus the Swedish matches, the same can be said for Finnish matches which are very few..
The most frequent matches are regional and not lingustic or cultural, as is visible with the Turkic and Iranic ideas which are proven wrong here.
Nice work, it makes more sense to do it this way round imo. Uzbeks stay more East Central Europe. Hazara avoided Scandinavia & works it's way to England.
I would have liked to explore this further and i am hoping Polako (eurogenes) will do a new one focusing on these and more populations and Europe and the middle east, as its one of those crossing points that can tell us so much about population movement..i dont know why i did not look at them earlier.. next i want to look at Mongol and Mongola matches to see if we see and remnants from pax mongolica, the Hazaras are clearly part of the Mongol story, but i wonder if the mongol/mongola, are identifiable by this or by more normal regional ties as we see with the central asians and their regional tie to Caucasus peoples...Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Sadly my method of making them is very slow, if i could work excel magic i would have been able to make better use of my time...
Mongolians should have quite a few matches in Turkey. From what I've seen already.
Really? if you look at the Turkish matches map i made earlier they have very few matches with Mongol and Mongola (one or two Turks match these populations), maybe you mean the Turkish reference samples? i have not looked into them fully yet.. i will check it out tomorrow, lets see what i find:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Maybe I read wrong.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by evon
Was going to do UK, but don't know half the ids proper name.
Su -- 3.7 Mongol
Orangepulp -- 4.8 Mongol
That is what I seen. :P
You could always do all of the UK, Kent, Cornwall, Orcadian ones and then when you have that you can look for their matches if they come along and need the information?Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Most ID's are linked to internet endings, NO for Norway, SE for Sweden ect..reference samples usually have ethnic group listed, use Google for that;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
3,7cM is too low in my opinion, 4cM is minimum...5cM+ is better...