Italy was prolly updated by Samnium or at least with his participation.
Printable View
Italy was prolly updated by Samnium or at least with his participation.
So ignore them, if it's a small and mixed population, but don't go around spreading fakes just to distance yourself from Albanians. Reich, Davidski, the authors of the study and the SG coordinates are clearly in support of one another and you are the only one on the other front. An amateur just like me. Shall I also begin creating fakes based on how I expect Getae, Dacians, Cumans, etc. to have scored like?Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Now I have to question everything that you submit and I advise Lucas to do the same.
fakes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
sorry to dissapoint you, but here they are:
CG7540766 scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce_
CG2611850 scy301_scythian_Moldova_390_205bce_
FJ6435372 scy303_scythian_Moldova_380_203bce_
LH1646901 ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC
UM7604856 ScythianMoldova_SCY300_Moldova_397-209_BC
RC9424705 ScythianMoldova_SCY311_Moldova_389-204_BC
how did you manage to turn this into a war, or how did you conclude i'm in any way anti-Albanian, is beyond me.
btw, there are at least 2 other people on this forum who find these alternative results interesting and would probably like to have them on Vahaduo.
So what about those ancient K13 samples?:) Any agreement?
@Lucas, please add the new stuff from my PM.
SG ones only, which are supported by Reich, Davidski and the authors of the study.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
He can add those that will make him less similar to Albanians himself.
Being on GEDmatch doesn't make them real. I can also feed wrong data and upload on GEDmatch.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
If any literal who will want to create alternative kits that disagree with the original data from the study, lab and Davidski's Global 25, then the spreadsheet will turn into a complete mess.
You are creating a precedent and after this others will request the same from Lucas.
Some kind of filtering needs to be done to the Balkan members who can suggest data, because more often than not they are absolute nationalistic nutters and couldn't care less about scientific accuracy as long as it paints the picture that they want to see. You might not be like that, but pushing hard these samples that behave differently from the official SG ones does not make you look any different.
Ok my compromise:)
I'm checking now raw files from Reich for those Scythians in AdmixtureStudio (K13). It will be new replacement.
EDIT: done and added
Code:scy006_WGC_Ukraine_Scythian_WGC,44.63,17.92,10.54,0,1.01,2.51,12.54,0,0,8.57,0,2.27,0
scy009_SG_Ukraine_Scythian_SG,32.25,38.12,14.64,6.06,4.22,1.86,0,0,0,1.35,0.18,0.02,1.3
scy010_SG_Ukraine_Scythian_SG_,30.49,32.12,12.24,20.62,2.17,0,0,0,0,1.04,0,1.33,0
scy011_SG_Ukraine_Scythian_SG,25.46,21.85,5.22,32.87,0,0,1.41,0,5.8,4.73,2.66,0,0
scy192_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,25.17,13.29,18.61,11.78,24.56,1.68,1.91,0,0.6,0,2.4,0,0
scy193_SG_Moldova_Scythian_o1_SG,11.12,33.32,0,15.33,0,17.57,5.75,0,0,1.13,4.29,5.39,6.1
scy197_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,19.25,15.8,28.22,3.76,22.72,7.4,0,0,2.85,0,0,0,0
scy300_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,25.15,5.55,24.79,9.86,24.18,6.31,0,2.61,0,1.53,0,0,0
scy301_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,19.51,23.11,13.22,19.06,14,0,2.8,0,7.17,0.74,0.38,0,0
scy303_SG_Moldova_Scythian_o2_SG,48.47,28.96,5.57,0.67,8.9,0,3.75,0,0,1.77,1.37,0,0.55
scy304_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,40.23,7.82,20.61,5.99,11.8,0,1.05,3.13,0,7.45,0.95,0,0.97
scy305_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,34.92,7.94,20.66,19.7,11.46,1.06,2.43,0.64,0,0,0,0,1.19
scy311_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG,32.33,19.41,7.05,13.85,11.68,5.4,0,3.86,0.35,1.81,1.79,2.47,0
scy332_SG_Moldova_Scythian_o3_SG,16.88,0,0,0,0,0,4.56,28.54,34.79,0,15.22,0,0
Yep, these are decent enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
Distance to: scy192_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG 5.71756067 Greek_Central-Macedonia 6.50671960 Romagna 6.60012121 Greek_Western-Thrace 6.69174865 Greek_Western-Macedonia 6.79309944 Turk_Alexandroupoli 6.83240807 Albanian_south_Albania 6.94368778 Umbria 7.00971856 Kosovo_Albanian 7.01559691 Vlach_Central-Macedonia 7.02276299 Marche 7.22384939 Albanian_Kosovo 7.22556572 Albanian 7.39792538 Albanian_Montenegro 7.49705942 Albanian_Albania 7.52294490 Turk_Kazanlik 7.54287744 Lazio 7.62800105 Albanian_north_Albania 7.77919662 Greek_Thessaly 7.86463604 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia 7.96738351 Bulgarian_Plovdiv 7.97988095 Tuscan 8.14366165 GR_Peloponese 8.39109647 Albanian_Macedonia 8.57710907 Turk_Kavala 8.60691001 Tuscany
Davidski's Global 25
Distance to: Scythian_MDA:scy192 0.03169278 Greek_Thessaly 0.03236811 Italian_Umbria 0.03310296 Albanian 0.03330800 Greek_Peloponnese 0.03331785 Greek_Central_Macedonia 0.03365049 Italian_Tuscany 0.03527896 Italian_Marche 0.03528722 Italian_Piedmont 0.03541678 Italian_Molise 0.03715650 Swiss_Italian 0.03732629 Greek_Izmir 0.03799659 Italian_Abruzzo 0.03809924 Italian_Lazio 0.04098982 French_Corsica 0.04279906 Italian_Apulia 0.04342582 Italian_Basilicata 0.04428340 Italian_Veneto 0.04431050 Italian_Lombardy 0.04501619 Gagauz 0.04506564 Italian_Bergamo 0.04658284 Italian_Liguria 0.04727562 Italian_Campania 0.04752906 Sicilian_West 0.04785316 Bulgarian 0.04823806 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
those are just the .SG samples, which were already there before yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
so we are back at the start now.
the compromise would be if both version were in there, maybe one marked with "_other_version" in the end so they can be easily told apart.
P.S.
i want to let apricity users know i don't have a problem with any nation or religion, only with idiots.
for example, i made Albanian regional averages with the help of the Albanian user Safinator.
Lucas can confirm.
Yes ok. But the problem is in Reich there are only SG samples.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
i just checked the BAM version Peterski sent me, it has almost 2x the SNPs in k13 compared to Serganover's version, and it's similar to the Reich/SG version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
I think it's safe to say it's more accurate.
so i agree with the current sampels from Reich.
Vbnetkhio is least biased poster here, he has absolutely no agenda and if he claims something it is because he thinks it may be true.
If he sees he tought wrong he will change his opinion without issues. A rare quality.
So there is no need to attack him or question his legitimacy.
Looks one you are one who has nationalistic bias here. You are upset about these samples (weather accurate or not is irrelevant) because you and your people can't be modeled with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
That's what you are upset about and that's exactly what you described here.
You want continuity and having such samples upsets your idea about genetic continuity in Moldova.
Than you go to attack Vbnethkio who maybe submited poor samples but it wasn't him who did it on purpose neither could he knew they aren't legit, if that is the case.
You chimped out insantly due to idea Getae could have been Illyrian like because your people pre-Slavic part isn't similar to that.
I read you like a book.
If you have time and interest, please calculate a Kohistani average with these kits:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingle
Spoiler!
After all, they are not that far from your part of Pakistan :)
I didn't even realize there wasn't a Kohistani average yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
I'll try to do it some time.
Mate, if they plot like what vbn believes then everyone from my country would need 2-3x the Imperial Roman input to be modelled acceptably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
If I were to have an agenda, I would kiss vbn with the tongue, because everyone knows that I identify more with our Latin side than the native Getae/Dacian, with which we don't share anything apart from genes.
I don't want to see alternative samples that disagree with what everyone with a clean reputation has put forward (lab, Reich, authors, Davidski).
Sent from my Redmi 4X using Tapatalk
And talking about continuity in Moldova is nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
If you knew a thing or two about us, you would realise that we are taught in school that the territory of Moldova got conquered from Tatars in the 14th century. It got colonised by Romanians from Maramures and we assimilated a lot of locals and others who arrived later.
We are never taught about having been here since the dawn of time, as opposed to Romanians in Transylvania for example for whom Geto-Dacians are more relevant.
That's why you see people in Moldova who are kind of similar to one another genetically and then obvious outliers both Northern and Southern.
We are a product of different people having grown and developped an identity under the same umbrella so to speak. It's not necessarily a blood connection with everyone who preceded us in living on this land.
Sent from my Redmi 4X using Tapatalk
This is definitely false for the eastern half of the Balkans. Thracians were very much mixed with Greeks. Dacians were mixed with Thracians. Scythians were mixed with Dacians. They were easily distinguishable from Northern Italic tribes.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Italic admixture came much later, but never constituted a majority, like you suggest, even after Northern Balkans became Latinized.
these are the samples which seem to form the main Thracian cluster. they all get Corsican first on Vahaduo:Quote:
Originally Posted by ixulescu
i didn't mean they were close to Iron age Italians and far away from Mycenaeans and Dacians, you misunderstood me.Code:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15,16.12,30.59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0.00,0.35,0.00,0.00,1.12,0,0
I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ybp,24.99,12.62,32.15,0.00,26.93,2.15,0.00,0.00,0.01,0.88,0.00,0.26,0
Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450_ybp,22.05,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.25,0,0
I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65,9.85,35.91,0.00,25.77,1.70,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0,1.11,0
I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30.00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0,0,0
Mycenaeans and Dacians were neolithic/SW Euro shifted too, just like them.
Updated English North and Midlands averages for K13/K15, if you could add please Lukasz
English_North, now based on 26 kits (mostly Lancashire & Yorkshire)
English_Midlands, now based on 20-21 kitsCode:English_North,50.17,24.43,12.58,5.97,2.94,0.74,1.25,0.12,0.22,0.64,0.45,0.26,0.19
English_North,37.29,27.54,10.55,9.06,8.49,3.89,0.73,0.41,0.84,0.04,0.07,0.38,0.26,0.23,0.13
Code:English_Midlands,50.12,23.10,13.93,6.42,3.03,0.60,0.97,0.28,0.24,0.40,0.32,0.24,0.28
English_Midlands,36.01,28.82,9.69,8.79,9.48,4.46,0.59,0.55,0.63,0.11,0.05,0.18,0.20,0.17,0.20
Maybe you could revisit the British Isles references on Dodecad K12b as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
I might make a couple of averages for it (Northern English and Welsh) when I can be bothered, seems to be a lot of British averages on it already, though not very accurate judging by people's results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Yes, almost all of them are bad. Cornwall, Kent, English, Irish, etc. Just do 2-3 basic ones (English, Irish, Scottish) and that'd be enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
Baghdadi average based on kits from the Iraqi project
Code:Iraqi_Baghdad,2.66,2.3,8.46,28.81,33.63,11.82,6.83,0.61,0.88,0.37,0.27,2.54,0.81
Please consider doing the same for Dodecad K12b. You do know we use it heavily for West Asia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren
@Ion Basescul
why didn't you make a general "Romanian" average for vahaduo k13?
do you think such an average wouldn't be very useful?
Here are the averages for K12b. Same kits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Code:Iraqi_Baghdad,18.64,0.77,2.42,0.31,8.82,3.91,3.22,2.3,20.37,0.79,37.64,0.8
Mandean,20.14,0.07,2.28,0.11,9.75,0.91,1.65,0.42,20.96,0.19,43.54,0
Iraqi_Jew,17.41,0.02,2.54,0.15,10.92,0.51,0.75,0.46,22.23,0.24,44.74,0
Assyrian_North,18.39,0.1,1.16,0.16,10.77,2.3,0.67,0.09,19.02,0.11,47.22,0
Assyrian_West,17.46,0.09,1.42,0.13,11.51,2.31,0.47,0.17,19.11,0.11,47.21,0.02
Assyrian_South,17.88,0.14,1.52,0.19,10.92,2.02,0.74,0.28,19.27,0.17,46.83,0.02
Thank you Aren but is it necessary to have 3 Assyrian pops? I mean they look very similar to each other and the nation itself is not particularly big. Maybe one would be enough?
Why not? Each Balkan ethnicity is represented by atleast five averages it seems. To put it into perspective the linguistical difference between Assyrians from NW Iran(Assyrian_North) and Western Assyrians is larger than the one between Croats and Bulgarians. Denominational wise we're also much more diverse than any European nation. Assyrian_North is dominated by adherents of the Assyrian Church of the East(neither Catholic nor Orthodox), Western Assyrians are mostly Orthodox and Southern Assyrians are mainly Catholics with a significant Orthodox minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Too bad none of them is Eastern Orthodox (we don't view the Orientals as Orthodox) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Aren
Okay, we'll add them all, though I'm not a big fan of extreme division. I mean some Balkan pops have like 5-7 different subsets.
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Yes. Orthodoxy (pravoslavie) = Nicene-Chalcedonian Christianity. The Orientals are Apostolic but not in communion with us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren
Iragi Baghdad as a mix of Iranian, Arab and Assyrian. Decent fit.
Target: Iraqi_Baghdad
Distance: 2.1215% / 2.12149856
45.8 Iranian_Fars
35.2 Assyrian_South
19.0 Bedouin
Adding Arab Levantines
Target: Iraqi_Baghdad
Distance: 1.0226% / 1.02255947
45.8 Iranian_Fars
35.2 Jordanians
16.6 Assyrian_South
2.4 Bedouin
Yeah, pretty cool. Thanks for the contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren
@Lucas, please add that post of Aren's to Vahaduo Dodecad K12b.
The Levantine averages for K12b are terrible. I made one for Palestinian Christians and one for Christians from Southwestern Syrian(N=19 and 16 respectively). However they are extremely similar as expected so maybe they should be merged. What you think Leto?
Code:Palestinian_Christian,9.34,0.06,4.3,0,15.12,1.29,0.25,1.57,25.1,0.09,42.87,0
Syria_SW_Christian,9.5,0.12,4.55,0.04,15.11,0.57,0.1,1.7,25.65,0.17,42.48,0
Interesting. Are the Syrians Arabic speakers? Greek Orthodox or Roman Catholic? Yeah, look almost identical to my surprise.
Both groups are Greek Orthodox or Greek Melkite. I suspect Syrian Christians from the NW might be different, less SW and more Northern Euro and Gedrosia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
I think we also need a Sunni Muslim average because that group is the most numerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren
updatedQuote:
Originally Posted by Creoda