My paleo-Balkan ancestors were Thracians

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Originally Posted by Hulu

When?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...yricum_map.png

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Lol

This had nothing to do with Illyrians. Illyricum was Dalmatia + Panonnia
We are speaking about Iron Age.

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Originally Posted by Feiichy

We can, for Croatia at least. All BA samples were same like this one, both from Panonnia and Dalmatia.

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Fair enough, I mean in albania they may have been different. But also much of Eastern genetics probably came much later.

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Originally Posted by Ylla

Fair enough, I mean in albania they may have been different. But also much of Eastern genetics probably came much later.

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Yep. These are northern Illyrians only, southern Illyrians don't need to be the same. But haplogroups are good indication of relation.

The territory the Illyrians inhabited came to be known as Illyria to Greek and Roman authors, who identified a territory that corresponds to Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, part of Serbia and most of central and northern Albania, between the Adriatic Sea in the west, the Drava river in the north, the Morava river in the east and the mouth of the Aoos river in the south.

The name "Illyrians", as applied by the ancient Greeks to their northern neighbors, may have referred to a broad, ill-defined group of peoples. The Illyrian tribes never collectively regarded themselves as 'Illyrians', and it is unlikely that they used any collective nomenclature for themselves. In fact, Illyrians seems to be the name of a specific Illyrian tribe that was among the first to come in contact with the ancient Greeks during the Bronze Age, with the Greeks later applying pars pro toto the name Illyrians to all people with similar language and customs. At present it is unclear to what extent the Illyrians were linguistically and culturally homogeneous. In fact, Illyric origin was and still is attributed also to a few ancient peoples residing in Italy: the Iapyges, Dauni, and Messapi, who are thought to have most likely followed Adriatic shorelines to the Italian peninsula from the geographic "Illyria".

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Originally Posted by ixulescu

This map is incorrect anyway.

Constantine retook Dacia in 334 AD after a decade long campaign, which included the construction of a second bridge over the Danube.

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It's a historical map

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

two closest models including Av2 for Balkan ethnicities:

Albanian
"37.4 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 62.6 % Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2"
"68.5 % BGR_IA + 31.5 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2"

Bosnian
"56.6 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 43.4 % IND_Roopkund_B" "0.01"
"58.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 41.8 % ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance" "0.0101"

Croat
"56.9 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 43.1 % ITA_Rome_MA" "0.0089"
"59.8 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 40.2 % ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity" "0.0093"

Bulgarian
"35.1 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 64.9 % IND_Roopkund_B" "0.0061"
"44.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 55.8 % ITA_Rome_Imperial" "0.0086"

Hungarian
"63.5 % DEU_MA_ACD + 36.5 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2" "0.0091"
"45.3 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 54.7 % HUN_MA_Szolad" "0.0095"

Serb
"58.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 41.8 % Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2" "0.0091"
"45.3 % BGR_IA + 54.7 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2" "0.0104"

Montengrin
"52.7 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 47.3 % ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o" "0.0083"
"46.6 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 53.4 % ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance" "0.0084"

Macedonian
"39.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 60.8 % IND_Roopkund_B" "0.0097"
"49.5 % BGR_IA + 50.5 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2" 0.0115

Romanian
"39.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 60.8 % ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity" "0.0093"
"38.4 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 61.6 % IND_Roopkund_B" "0.0096"

Slovenians
"58.5 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 41.5 % ITA_Rome_MA" "0.009"
"60.6 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 39.4 % ITA_Proto-Villanovan" "0.0094

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IND_roopkund_B it’s a medieval greek?

Core Illyrian tribes

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Docleatae.svg

We have no samples from them

In case of Croatians, I prefer names like Dalmatians and Panonnians. Those were North Italian/Iberian like, and they are my non-Slavic part.

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Originally Posted by andre

IND_roopkund_B it’s a medieval greek?

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i wasn't sure, but it seems it is. it has Slavic influence so it's not good for making these models. i'll do a list without it

[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Greek_Crete" "0.0079"
[2,] "Greek_Ionia" "0.0084"
[3,] "Italian_Basilicata" "0.0088"
[4,] "Greek_Kos" "0.0088"
[5,] "Italian_Apulia" "0.0097"
[6,] "Italian_Calabria" "0.0101"
[7,] "Italian_Campania" "0.0104"
[8,] "Greek" "0.0113"
[9,] "Italian_Molise" "0.0115"
[10,] "Italian_Abruzzo" "0.0116"
[11,] "Sicilian_East" "0.0147"
[12,] "Albanian" "0.0148"
[13,] "Italian_Lazio" "0.0155"
[14,] "Italian_Marche" "0.0155"
[15,] "Maltese" "0.0157"
[16,] "Italian_Umbria" "0.0159"
[17,] "Romaniote_Jew" "0.0162"
[18,] "Ashkenazi_Jew" "0.0162"
[19,] "Sicilian_West" "0.0164"
[20,] "Italian_Jew" "0.0165"
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "27.2 % Bulgarian + 72.8 % Greek_Kos" "0.0048"
[2,] "75.8 % Greek_Kos + 24.2 % Romanian" "0.005"
[3,] "78.4 % Greek_Kos + 21.6 % Serbian" "0.0051"
[4,] "34.1 % Albanian + 65.9 % Greek_Kos" "0.0051"
[5,] "72.9 % Greek_Kos + 27.1 % Moldavian" "0.0053"
[6,] "41.3 % Greek + 58.7 % Greek_Kos" "0.0053"
[7,] "77 % Greek_Kos + 23 % Macedonian" "0.0055"
[8,] "26.4 % Gagauz + 73.6 % Greek_Kos" "0.0055"
[9,] "36.7 % Greek + 63.3 % Greek_Crete" "0.0055"
[10,] "84.1 % Greek_Kos + 15.9 % Slovenian" "0.0056"
[11,] "16.4 % Croatian + 83.6 % Greek_Kos" "0.0056"
[12,] "51.9 % Greek_Ionia + 48.1 % Greek_Kos" "0.0056"
[13,] "37.8 % Cypriot + 62.2 % Greek" "0.0057"
[14,] "89.3 % Greek_Kos + 10.7 % Russian_Smolensk" "0.0057"
[15,] "79.8 % Greek_Kos + 20.2 % Montenegrin" "0.0058"
[16,] "84.5 % Greek_Kos + 15.5 % Hungarian" "0.0058"
[17,] "88.8 % Greek_Kos + 11.2 % Russian_Voronez" "0.0058"
[18,] "87.3 % Greek_Kos + 12.7 % Tatar_Mishar" "0.0058"
[19,] "90.2 % Greek_Kos + 9.8 % Russian_Pinega" "0.0059"
[20,] "10.3 % Belarusian + 89.7 % Greek_Kos" "0.0059"

I don't think it has Slavic influence. Its probably just a northern shift that existed from ancient times.