these averages you posted here were made by Sizzo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrius
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these averages you posted here were made by Sizzo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrius
Yes (the Italian ones). And they were posted on his personal blog last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
last year? i think the samples which were already in the sheet are also from Sizzo, but a different version. maybe they were more up to date(more samples) than the ones you posted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrius
somebody should contact Sizzo and ask him what to add.
Distances for the averages I've made so far:
K15
Spoiler!
K13
Spoiler!
Dodecad K12b
Spoiler!
Honestly I do not know if they are more up to date. There is a great chance that the previous averages were made by Sizzo in April 2018:Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
https://translate.google.com/transla...le-italiano%2F
The new averages, on the other hand, derive from an article of his in March 2019.
https://translate.google.com/transla...rogenes-k13%2F
that's probably it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrius
than the new averages shouldn't replace the old ones, and not be combined with them.
For the K13 I noticed some oddities, so I thought I could ask here if anyone has any suggestion about them. I believe only one of them should be kept because they seem to describe same people:
Albanian,21.21,17.81,21.54,11.15,24.03,2.70,0.15,0 .41,0.22,0.15,0.25,0.08,0.05
Albanian_Albania,20.74,17.25,22.08,11.11,24.51,2.6 5,0.18,0.17,0.29,0.25,0.24,0.15,0.11
Cyprian,5.67,2.81,19.86,20.34,41.08,8.12,0.50,0.07 ,0.23,0.00,0.47,0.30,0.54
Greek_Cypriot,5.67,2.81,19.86,20.34,41.08,8.12,0.5 ,0.07,0.23,0,0.47,0.3,0.54
Serb,24.72,29.47,17.13,9.20,15.42,1.55,0.55,0.27,0 .72,0.53,0.30,0.08,0.05
Serb,24.82,29.33,17.08,9.20,15.53,1.60,0.54,0.29,0 .72,0.53,0.28,0.05,0.05
Serb_Serbia,24.64,29.34,17.20,9.19,15.53,1.54,0.57 ,0.27,0.75,0.57,0.26,0.09,0.05
English_Southeast,49.11,23.07,14.04,6.08,4.08,0.69 ,1.01,0.19,0.24,0.54,0.44,0.25,0.20
Southeast_English,50.52,23.27,13.98,4.46,5.09,0.09 ,1.08,0.04,0.06,0.62,0.62,0.12,0.04
Greek_Central_Macedonia,18.99,17.79,21.11,12.46,24 .88,2.53,0.36,0.37,0.21,0.55,0.18,0.23,0.19
Greek_Central-Macedonia,23.34,16.97,18.98,11.86,22.95,3.96,0,0,0 .81,0.64,0.46,0,0
Swiss_German,40.15,22.01,17.27,6.58,10.31,1.90,0.0 8,0.28,0.25,0.52,0.29,0.29,0.09
Swiss_German2,41.14,21.44,17.58,6.72,10.25,1.25,0. 30,0.10,0.30,0.38,0.36,0.11,0.08
Swiss_Italian,36.35,15.43,23.16,2.81,18.65,2.71,0. 26,0.00,0.41,0.00,0.18,0.08,0.00
Swiss-Italian2,35.93,15.27,24.19,4.23,16.97,2.3,0.12,0,0 .26,0.36,0.13,0.24,0
Vlach(Aromanian)_average,21.26,20.34,19.00,11.77,2 2.61,3.09,0.18,0.47,0.47,0.41,0.38,0.04,0.00
Vlach_avg,21.26,20.34,19.00,11.77,22.61,3.09,0.18, 0.47,0.47,0.41,0.38,0.04,0.00
This one should be removed since I only made it for demonstrative purpose for a specific thread, grouping together 3 groups of Hungarians which have their very own particular regional identities, in real life Eastern Hungarian is not used by anyone:
Hungarian_Eastern,28.26,28.77,15.29,8.02,12.62,1.4 6,1.04,0.89,2.25,0.75,0.33,0.18,0.14
"Albanian" also includes Albanians outside of Albania.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunai
it's the same with "Serb".
Serb,24.72 is the up to date version, Serb, 24.82 should be deleted
Vlach_avg and Greek_Central-Macedonia,23.34 should also be deleted.
English_Southeast is my average that I'm continuing to update, from around SE England including all the Home Counties, and I think it's not bad. Southeast_English is the Gedmatch average that already exists in the original.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunai
One of them should obviously be deleted, I'm guessing yours is more representative then previous one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
I don't know, they're not too different, but I'd like mine to stay as I continue to update it, plus the other one is still on the original sheet. I'm also planning to add a West Country average that could replace Southwest_English.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunai
Someone not from this forum send me it. It is average of 20 or little more samples don't remember now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creoda
So replace old ones with those from Patrius?Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
^^Those are deleted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunai
I'm not sure which is better here:
Swiss_German,40.15,22.01,17.27,6.58,10.31,1.90,0.0 8,0.28,0.25,0.52,0.29,0.29,0.09
Swiss_German2,41.14,21.44,17.58,6.72,10.25,1.25,0. 30,0.10,0.30,0.38,0.36,0.11,0.08
Swiss_Italian,36.35,15.43,23.16,2.81,18.65,2.71,0. 26,0.00,0.41,0.00,0.18,0.08,0.00
Swiss-Italian2,35.93,15.27,24.19,4.23,16.97,2.3,0.12,0,0 .26,0.36,0.13,0.24,0
yes. but maybe not all regions should be added. Italian members should decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
The virgin Eurogenes K13 vs the chad Global25
There are few in this forum. For me, you could easily replace the current ones with the ones I posted. Tacitus knows more than I do, so it would be better if he decides.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
They were made by Sikeliot, so they are somewhat biased but still more reliable than the Italian samples published by the Raveane paper whose ancestry and birthplace have not been checked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrius
Are you sure they were made by Sikeliot? However I agree, the Raveane paper was a real disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deusex99
K13
Distance to: melki
6.44772828 South_Dutch
6.93191893 West_German
8.32063099 French
10.17009833 Austrian
11.46787687 East_German
11.54405042 Southeast_English
12.60951228 Southwest_English
12.68428555 North_German
13.35799760 Orcadian
13.81342101 North_Dutch
14.06644234 Danish
14.42682917 Irish
14.89206500 Spanish_Cataluna
15.12135576 West_Scottish
15.27100193 Hungarian
15.29597006 Southwest_French
15.75847074 Spanish_Galicia
15.94894040 Norwegian
16.17621402 Swedish
16.29085940 Spanish_Cantabria
16.35465071 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
16.44137768 Portuguese
17.90568904 Spanish_Valencia
18.11328242 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
18.18901042 Spanish_Extremadura
K15
Distance to: melki
6.39324644 South_Dutch
7.33485515 French
9.58031837 West_German
9.87521645 East_German
10.23397284 Southwest_English
11.29573371 North_German
11.92127510 Southeast_English
13.48524379 Austrian
13.49975555 North_Dutch
13.64503206 Irish
13.83593871 Danish
13.86657853 Spanish_Galicia
13.99258375 Spanish_Cataluna
14.37883862 Hungarian
14.60250663 West_Scottish
15.28278770 Portuguese
15.35407112 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
15.82496445 Orcadian
16.04599639 Norwegian
16.45633617 Swedish
16.74241321 Spanish_Cantabria
16.98494922 Southwest_French
17.20741410 Spanish_Extremadura
17.22604133 Serbian
17.57121510 Spanish_Murcia
Do you have the K13 results for the averaged Pennsylvania Dutch as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
Why is there such a big discrepancy in admixture calculations between G25 and other calculators? For example: I decided to calculate the percentage of WHG, EHG and CHG in Bronze Age samples. I took Loschbour as WHG pattern, RUS_Samara_HG as EHG pattern, and KK1_Georgia_Kotias as CHG pattern. Analyzed sample - RUS_Srubnaya_Alakul.
In K13 component EHG is absent:
Target: mur003_Russia_Srubnaya_Alakul.SG_3734_ybp
Distance: 6.6203% / 6.62029564
79.0 Loschbour_Loschbour_Luxembourg_6000_BC
21.0 KK1_Georgia_Kotias.SG_9720_ybp
The same is in MDLP K16:
Target: Srubnaya
Distance: 13.8571% / 13.85714509
57.0 Luxembourg_Mesolithic
43.0 Kotias
But in G25 EHG component prevails:
Target: RUS_Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA:mur003
Distance: 10.4590% / 0.10458963
45.0 RUS_Samara_HG
39.0 GEO_CHG
16.0 LUX_Loschbour
Why is it so?
New averages for Dodecad (credits to @Amon). Delete the old Palestinian (NOT Palestinian_Christian), Syrian and Lebanese.
Code:Palestinian,10.56,0.37,5.76,0.15,13.25,1.89,0.65,4.58,24.15,0.45,36.51,1.63
Lebanese_Muslim,12.64,0.17,3.82,0.3,14.77,3.6,0.74,2.19,20.65,0.16,40.46,0.47
Syrian_A,11.83,0.33,4.05,0.21,14.44,3.27,1.23,2.60,20.79,0.38,39.83,1.04
Syrian_B,15.65,0.34,3.52,0.20,13.75,4.80,1.31,2.25,17.73,1.28,37.85,1.35
Also add thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Code:Lebanese_Christian,10.7,0,4.03,0.17,15.63,0.86,0.31,0.98,23.73,0.12,43.46,0
Maybe someone who sent me it, read it and will send it for K13.Quote:
Originally Posted by DontFxxkWithWendy
Kurdish Jew, N=13
Distance to: Kurdish_JewCode:Kurdish_Jew,17.67,0.16,2.3,0.22,10.34,1.04,0.96,0.38,21.72,0.07,45.13,0
1.12187343 Iraqi_Jew
1.82057683 Iranian_Jew
3.17557869 Mandean
3.30331652 Assyrian_South
3.77049068 Azeri_Jew
3.90358809 Assyrian_West
3.92754376 Assyrian_North
4.43773591 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
7.96421999 Armenian_West
8.68984465 Nusayri_Turkey
8.77953871 Georgia_Jews
8.93072226 Iraqi_Baghdad
8.96122759 Lebanese_Muslim
9.33982869 Lebanese_Christian
9.70520031 Syrian_A
10.35334728 Syrian_B
10.71498017 Palestinian_Christian
10.94196509 Armenian_East
10.94434100 Syria_SW_Christian
10.96573755 Turkmen_Iraq
11.60349947 Syrians
11.87118360 Turk_East
12.59842054 Zaza
12.85080931 Kurd_Sorani
12.96708525 Udi_Azerbaijan
13.13223807 Palestinian_Muslim
It's incorrect, the average wasn't based specifically on samples from Chechnya. Waam made it and he never specified that. Lucas, remove "Chechnya" from the title, Mountain is enough.Quote:
Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
Updated East Armenian for MDLP K23b
Armenian_East,0.38,1.80,19.87,0.30,0.99,0.11,0.09, 47.24,0.13,0.07,0.09,9.10,0.03,0.44,0.13,13.33,2.8 8,0.29,0.03,0.07,0.01,0,2.45
Lukasz, please add these to Dodecad besides what's in my last message
made by Amon
An alternative Lak average, I don't know which one is better and no one else does eitherCode:Turk_Cyprus,8.76,0.58,3.06,0.28,18.92,7.35,0.47,1.77,15.8,1.12,40.51,1.23
Code:Lak2,25.90,2.40,0.04,0.39,4.76,24.19,0.98,0.11,2.94,0.26,38.02,0
New Turkish Cypriot average (N=45) for Eurogenes K13
Code:Turk_Cyprus,8.61,6.32,17.83,20.46,33.96,6.32,1.13,1.48,1.17,0.38,0.03,1.57,0.73
Quote:
Originally Posted by harutsafaryan07
Do you think you guys could make some West Asian averages for HarappaWorld? It has almost the same components as K12b so is on par with it and one of the best calcs for Asians, so it'd be nice to have some more averages for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amon
Sure, but let me have a certain amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingle
I'm not gonna bother with HarappaWorld, Dodecad is enough for me.
What we do need is new averages from major East Asian countries (Han Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese) for Dodecad. The original references are terribly inaccurate in most cases. I'm going to ask Maguzanci since he claims he is an Asian himself. Others are welcome to contribute as well.
Hui/Dungan (N=10)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Avg: Dungan,2.83,6.59,0.09,24.87,0.42,2.77,0.77,0.13,0. 31,58.73,2.16,0.33Code:Hui1,2.86,4.47,0.042,23.7,0.001,0.677,1.31,0.001,0.009,65.1,1.22,0.614
Hui2,3.15,6.28,0.001,23.9,0.001,2.84,0.001,0.001,0.374,59.2,3.51,0.656
Hui3,4.56,7.67,0.897,21,1.08,3.59,0.734,0.245,0.02,57.8,2.24,0.177
Hui4,2.71,7.55,0.001,23.5,1.43,4.58,0.001,0.001,0.906,58.9,0.228,0.178
Hui5,2,6.1,0.001,33.9,0.001,1.74,1.02,0.016,0.907,52.8,1.19,0.392
Hui6,4.03,6.8,0.01,24.1,0.265,3.57,1.03,0.364,0.001,57.3,2.21,0.282
Hui7,1.57,6.69,0,22.71,0.68,1.87,1.81,0.2,0,62.51,1.96,0
Hui8,1.92,8.31,0.001,22.6,0.211,3.99,1.77,0.467,0.528,56.9,3.21,0.092
Hui9,2.32,5.75,0.001,29.4,0.546,1.99,0.001,0.001,0.001,57.6,2.17,0.215
Hui10,3.15,6.28,0.001,23.9,0.001,2.84,0.001,0.001,0.374,59.2,3.51,0.656
Distance to: Hui
8.29750565 Naxi
8.66563904 Yizu
10.93998172 Tu
14.85397590 Chinese
15.95633417 Mongola
Target: Hui
Distance: 2.0647% / 2.06474433 | ADC: 0.25x
71.6 Naxi
10.6 Tu
6.8 Kazakh
5.8 Tujia
3.2 Lak
1.8 Uyghur
0.2 Bashkir
Wait a minute, the Hui are not 99-100% East Asian? I believe in China it's just an ethnoreligious community, they look Chinese and speak Mandarin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amon
They are supposedly of Silk Road (Iranic+Turkic, mainly Sogdian) descent as well but its likely heavily diluted by nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
A third of their Y-DNA lineages are of steppe/MENA/south-Asian origin. Dungan along with Turkic Salars, Mongolic Dongxiang and Bonan have legit western ancestry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Maul
I see. Prolly the ones in the Stan countries have more of that than the PRC ones. The former also weirdly write in Cyrilic even though it's a Sinitic language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amon
There's no data on Central Asian Dungans. The owners of these kits are from NE China (viz. Beijing, Jiangsu, Shandong and other provinces). Those residing in Gansu, Qinghai and Ningxia will be more interesting, IMO (cause of their proximity to the Silk Road).Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
So the average is 90.2% Mongoloid (58.73% East Asian, 24.87% Southeast Asian, 6.59% Siberian). I wouldn't have expected it to be that "low". I was thinking of 95-100% (maybe with very distant West Eurasian from those who introduced Islam to the region).Quote:
Originally Posted by Amon
Do Han, Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese if you can. Those groups are fairly homogenous and don't require a whole lot of samples. 10 per each group would be fine. I still don't know if Maguzanci is interested.