update: Chernihivska:R1a1c and Tshern_Ucering2209 are duplicates.
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update: Chernihivska:R1a1c and Tshern_Ucering2209 are duplicates.
Nice, we usually use K13 updated here, because it has way more references handpicked by us from studies and personal research.Quote:
Originally Posted by smd555
Distance to: Prykarpattya 3.51954543 Slovak 3.53243542 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk 3.55464485 Hungarian_Northern 4.00895248 Croat_North 4.63459815 Croat_East 4.84689591 Hungarian_Alföld 4.99845976 Slovenian 5.39968518 Croat 5.58405766 Hungarian 5.95727287 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest 6.16580084 Moldova_Ukrainian 6.32364610 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.40627037 Czech 6.64030873 Moldova_North 6.92190725 South_Polish 7.38563471 Croat_West 7.51033954 Ukrainian 7.74337782 Croat_South 7.89943036 Bosniak 8.26889352 Sorb_Lusatia 8.84718034 Csángó 9.49432989 Hungarian_Transylvania 9.73654970 Serb_north 9.80008673 Székely 9.98277016 Romania_Moldavia_North
Old academic data from Yunusbayev.
3 samples from Lviv and 3 ethnic Ukrainians from Belgorod, Russia.
now we just need Pagani and Balanovsky.
Code:MW3377762 UkrBel614
Population
North_Atlantic 27.6 Pct
Baltic 47.64 Pct
West_Med 5.29 Pct
West_Asian 9.26 Pct
East_Med 6.18 Pct
Red_Sea 0.21 Pct
South_Asian 0.35 Pct
East_Asian 1.22 Pct
Siberian 0.97 Pct
Amerindian 0.35 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.14 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.8 Pct
EN2489269 UkrBel618
Population
North_Atlantic 27.26 Pct
Baltic 48.15 Pct
West_Med 8.74 Pct
West_Asian 9.79 Pct
East_Med 1.11 Pct
Red_Sea 0.44 Pct
South_Asian 2.29 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.9 Pct
Amerindian 0.65 Pct
Oceanian 0.11 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.54 Pct
RL8887294 UkrBel622
Population
North_Atlantic 22.56 Pct
Baltic 46.1 Pct
West_Med 9.68 Pct
West_Asian 7.53 Pct
East_Med 9.49 Pct
Red_Sea 0.62 Pct
South_Asian 0.33 Pct
East_Asian 1.13 Pct
Siberian 1.19 Pct
Amerindian 0.74 Pct
Oceanian 0.63 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
FX6177821 UkrLv215
Population
North_Atlantic 28.27 Pct
Baltic 45.91 Pct
West_Med 11.42 Pct
West_Asian 5.29 Pct
East_Med 2.53 Pct
Red_Sea 2.41 Pct
South_Asian 1.53 Pct
East_Asian 0.19 Pct
Siberian 1.36 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 1.07 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
WF5027156 UkrLv226
Population
North_Atlantic 28.19 Pct
Baltic 38.33 Pct
West_Med 12.95 Pct
West_Asian 8.5 Pct
East_Med 6.04 Pct
Red_Sea 1.95 Pct
South_Asian 0.91 Pct
East_Asian 0.42 Pct
Siberian 0.81 Pct
Amerindian 1.11 Pct
Oceanian 0.79 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
NF2707044 UkrLv228
Population
North_Atlantic 25.64 Pct
Baltic 41.33 Pct
West_Med 11.58 Pct
West_Asian 7.63 Pct
East_Med 7.3 Pct
Red_Sea 0.82 Pct
South_Asian 1.07 Pct
East_Asian 0.35 Pct
Siberian 2.18 Pct
Amerindian 1.24 Pct
Oceanian 0.43 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.43 Pct
You alredy posted Pagani samples like Rovne and Sumy and Cossacks. ?Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
that's Pagani?? From what Peterski said, I thought there was a Pagani dataset from NW Ukraine with some Czech Plotting samples? I guess I misunderstood him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
o_Ukraine_Zaporizka:r1a2b,19.89,33.73,9.27,17.00,1 4.19,1.14,2.42,0.00,0.00,1.31,0.00,1.07,0.00Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Ukraine_Chernivetska:R1a1c_,24.02,35.22,14.87,8.42 ,10.70,1.63,0.00,0.00,1.97,1.29,0.83,1.01,0.00
Ukraine_Harkivska:r1a1c_,25.49,46.63,11.67,4.44,5. 41,1.93,0.64,0.00,1.18,1.83,0.78,0.00,0.00
Ukraine_Sumska:R1a1b_,28.32,45.93,11.70,5.96,3.74, 0.34,0.00,0.33,0.92,1.20,1.37,0.00,0.17
Ukraine_Sumska:R1a1c_,26.67,49.09,8.63,5.17,4.92,1 .47,0.21,0.00,1.56,0.96,0.20,0.00,1.12
Ukraine_Rivnenska:R1b8_,28.91,43.12,11.02,4.50,7.3 5,1.70,0.72,0.00,0.86,1.73,0.08,0.00,0.00
Ukraine_Zhytomyrska:R1a1a_,25.33,46.03,11.53,6.25, 8.62,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.73,0.00,0.92,0.21,0.38
Ukraine_Chernivetska:R1a1c_,24.02,35.22,14.87,8.42 ,10.70,1.63,0.00,0.00,1.97,1.29,0.83,1.01,0.00
Pagani
UkrnE1 Sumi_region UkrnE1 Ukrainians_east
E&N Europe Sumi_region Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a1b UkrnE2 Sumi_region UkrnE2 Ukrainians_east
E&N Europe Sumi_region Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a1c UkrnE3 Kharkov_region UkrnE3 Ukrainians_east
E&N Europe Kharkov_region Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a1c UkrN1 Chernigovskaja UkrN1 Ukrainians_north Chernihivs'ka oblast E&N Europe Chernigovskaja Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a1c UkrnW1 Rivnens'ka_oblast UkrnW1 Ukrainians_west Rovenskayaregion E&N Europe Rivnens'ka oblast Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1b8 UkrnW2 Zhytomyrs'ka_oblast UkrnW2 Ukrainians_west Zhitomirregion E&N Europe Zhytomyrs'ka oblast Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a1a UkrnW3 Chernivets'ka_oblast UkrnW3 Ukrainians_west Chernovitskayaregion E&N Europe Chernivets'ka oblast Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a1c
Cosk1 Zaporozhie Cosk1 Cossacks
E&N Europe Zaporozhie Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a1d Cosk2 Zaporozhie Cosk2 Cossacks
E&N Europe Zaporozhie Ukraine Europe Eastern Europe Indo-European/Balto-Slavic/Slavic/East male R1a2b
Sumy are west shifted indeed, if Czech? Rather not so much:)
yeah, I know. I checked those sampels a year ago. But none of them looks particularly Czech-like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
maybe Peterski was talking about some other study?
You have Balanovski in Reich last iteration.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
They get weird results, like my file is corrupted. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
UKR-1283_Ukrainian.txt
22.00% North_Atlantic
24.24% Baltic
13.66% West_Med
10.63% West_Asian
11.23% East_Med
2.86% Red_Sea
0.17% South_Asian
5.90% East_Asian
7.19% Siberian
2.11% Amerindian
0.00% Oceanian
0.00% Northeast_African
0.00% Sub-Saharan
UKR-1291_Ukrainian.txt
20.83% North_Atlantic
25.20% Baltic
13.72% West_Med
11.98% West_Asian
11.73% East_Med
0.06% Red_Sea
0.90% South_Asian
7.07% East_Asian
6.33% Siberian
2.19% Amerindian
0.00% Oceanian
0.00% Northeast_African
0.00% Sub-Saharan
etc
Distance: 2.4026% / 2.40255449
Target: Father
59.7 Krym
25.4 Rivnenska
14.9 Sumska
Distance: 5.6293% / 5.62928131
Target: Mother
52.0 Poltavska
24.3 Kyivska
23.7 Krym
You have Balanovski in Reich last iteration.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
delete
The average would be optimal if weighted based on the population of various Ukrainian regions/subgroups. Zakarpatska is definetly overrepresented here. The Ukrainians i have seen were mostly around 45% Baltic if not from the southwestern part of the country or most northern. It would be great if we had such regional results also for RussiansQuote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
delete
Maybe some from Balanovski. I removed most of them as too western.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
I was talking about UKR-1283 from Balanovski, but Pagani samples from Sumy are also west-shifted.
Russians are well represented on Dodecad K12b, mostly academic samples plus a couple of my custom averages. I also made a Russian national average for K13 based on samples from various parts of European Russia. Eurogenes' original references aren't terrible either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arhat
You don't even like Gedmatch, dude. And you treat it as some very personal info, not just a bunch of fucking numbers.
You can not use gedmatch cals for ancient models and it is oudated in any way. The creator of the cals himselves says that and i think he knows more about how it works than you and me. I am not saying it is useless and it works great for most modern day Europeans but anyhing ancient or non-European is already either wrong or very inaccurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Dodecad works fine for a lot of Eurasians. I dislike the G25 bullshit that is being spammed by gixajo and some other users. He is a fucking nobody scientifically and creates bullshit models every single day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arhat
G25 will never catch up, as long as it 1) is not free and 2) available for people to get it straight from a website like on GEDmatch. Otherwise, it is extremely hard if not impossible to build proper references. Relying only on academic samples is not enough to get a comprehensive picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
There is an inflation of Global25 models with idiotic sources from different periods and no relevance for sure but i am annoyed by people using Gedmatch calcs to claim PIEs had Gedrosian/came from Iran, Sintastha were North Atlanic-like with zero affinity to East Europeans and use the components based on modern pops to model ancient people who are their ancestors (like making a calc based on the sons of a person to model the father). For the Asians i am interested it is not working always because it lumps different kind of East Asian (WSHG, Mongol_N, Han/Mongol/Proto-like) and Middle Eastern (CHG, Iran_N, Iran_Chalc, Natufian) together. Harappa is here still the most accuate but even it fails to differentiate these kind of ancestries accurately (Global25 is also not perfect here but the best so far for non-Europeans)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Exactly. There will be nothing like the massive Gedmatch database for G25 anytime soon. It's too complicated for most "normies". In fact many people even find Gedmatch complicated. I once talked to a Russian-Ukrainian woman, a match of my brother-in-law's and she was like "I went to Gedmatch and understood nothing". To this day she is not there :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Much of that is too high-brow and too involved. Here we can just say "Mongoloid" for East Eurasian. Everyone knows what it is :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arhat
Minsk K13:
Code:Minsk1,28.20,50.20,9.76,1.71,4.24,0.85,1.48,1.54,0.79,0,0.19,1.04,0
Minsk2,32.58,49.11,6.34,4.42,2.96,0.21,1.53,0,0.73,1.14,0.59,0,0.38
Minsk3,27.31,49.18,7.09,2.72,8.96,1.24,0.87,0,2.24,0.20,0.13,0,0.06
Minsk4,25.74,50.33,7.73,4.80,6.55,1.43,0,0.95,1.55,0,0.85,0.07,0
Minsk5,24.68,52.00,9.76,4.38,2.43,1.33,1.48,0,1.65,0.92,0.36,0.98,0
Minsk6,26.82,52.27,7.98,2.69,5.23,0.52,3.62,0,0.15,0,0,0.48,0.24
Minsk7,26.76,50.66,8.27,1.73,7.91,0.47,1.11,0,1.06,1.53,0.48,0,0
Minsk8,28.60,48.75,6.61,5.18,3.51,2.29,2.95,0,0.53,0.71,0.72,0,0.14
Minsk9,27.19,47.57,9.51,5.63,5.10,0,1.32,0,3.27,0,0,0,0.41
Minsk10,22.46,39.39,12.87,6.44,14.31,0.44,0.94,1.23,1.15,0.32,0,0,0.45
Minsk11,27.63,47.74,8.72,6.31,4.17,0.83,2.59,0.01,0,1.99,0,0.02,0
Minsk12,28.80,51.64,7.14,6.17,3.35,0,0.38,1.35,0,0,0.52,0.65,0
Minsk13,28.88,46.86,9.88,4.24,6.49,0,0.61,0.47,0.87,0.64,0,0.68,0.39
Minsk14,27.45,48.00,11.43,5.28,5.00,0.22,1.07,0,1.29,0.26,0,0,0
Minsk15,25.26,53.34,10.79,2.79,2.38,0.38,3.29,0,1.11,0.55,0,0,0.11
Minsk16,29.16,46.31,8.25,8.20,4.35,0,0,0,1.48,0.89,0.89,0,0.45
Minsk17,26.78,51.98,8.91,5.85,2.01,0,1.13,0.22,0.37,0.83,1.80,0,0.13
Minsk18,26.38,52.87,8.11,3.55,4.22,0,2.72,0,0.60,1.00,0,0.54,0
Minsk19,21.86,51.08,10.92,5.66,6.73,0,0.06,0,1.27,0.64,0.73,1.06,0
Minsk20,26.85,49.41,7.95,7.80,3.72,0.51,1.77,0.54,0.69,0.77,0,0,0
Minsk21,26.69,49.09,11.99,5.73,2.00,0.23,0.43,0,0.91,1.43,1.50,0,0
Minsk22,26.99,51.75,9.46,2.62,2.98,0.42,1.59,0.59,0.99,2.08,0,0,0.53
Minsk23,27.76,47.96,7.07,5.25,6.78,0.14,0.12,0,3.01,0,0.91,0,1.00
Minsk24,23.34,33.80,12.58,10.28,12.39,1.14,2.35,0.43,2.46,0.68,0,0.55,0
Minsk25,31.26,48.40,7.80,6.40,2.05,0.42,1.02,0,0,1.74,0.86,0,0.04
Minsk26,26.20,48.44,12.22,2.35,6.97,0.16,0.13,0.46,1.21,0.79,0.10,0,0.95
Minsk27,24.60,48.12,12.59,3.69,4.36,1.94,1.44,0.09,2.42,0.73,0,0,0
Minsk28,26.56,45.91,12.30,5.28,4.75,0.29,0.12,0,3.35,0,0.49,0,0.95
Maybe we can start on TA free database of G25 coords? At least 100 or 200 users here had g25.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Removed two samples marked by you previously as outliers
Distance to: Belarusian_MinskCode:Belarusian_Minsk,27.19,49.58,9.18,4.63,4.58,0.53,1.26,0.24,1.21,0.72,0.43,0.21,0.22
1.47851277 Estonian_Polish
2.44804003 Russian_Smolensk
3.04642413 Belorussian
4.07349972 Russian_Southwest
4.70054252 Russian_average
5.24371052 Ukrainian_Belgorod
5.63055947 Polish
5.99219492 Lithuanian
6.36007075 Russian_Kostroma
6.98833313 Ukrainian
It's fairly similar to the old average and also not far away from my father's results.
They might not be numbered in exactly the same order as in K15 thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
They looked like outliers too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Now K12b is next.
Minsk in K12b:
Code:Minsk1,3.93,0,0,1.38,23.61,60.45,1.29,0.50,1.17,0,7.67,0
Minsk2,3.27,1.17,0,0.02,21.29,62.70,1.73,0,1.31,0,8.50,0
Minsk3,4.50,1.97,0.27,0,20.95,59.69,0,0,1.97,0,10.57,0.09
Minsk4,3.74,2.09,0,0.55,20.61,59.74,0,0,1.49,0.26,11.52,0
Minsk5,4.73,0.83,0,0,21.78,58.14,1.24,0.06,2.99,0.10,10.13,0
Minsk6,2.87,0,0,0,20.68,61.37,2.69,0.02,2.51,0,9.87,0
Minsk7,1.58,2.27,0,0,19.96,61.64,1.57,0,1.27,0,11.71,0
Minsk8,3.56,0.36,0,1.01,19.56,59.35,2.32,0,1.43,0,12.43,0
Minsk9,3.85,2.66,0.33,0,22.45,58.39,1.00,0,0,0,11.33,0
Minsk10,1.82,0,1.13,1.53,23.03,48.22,1.80,0,4.34,0.25,17.89,0
Minsk11,2.44,0.03,0,0,22.87,59.50,2.70,0,1.96,0.26,10.25,0
Minsk12,3.40,1.09,0.88,0.15,20.43,63.61,0,0,0,0,10.43,0
Minsk13,3.89,0,1.66,0,23.99,58.70,0,0,1.56,1.21,8.99,0.01
Minsk14,6.71,0.96,0,0,24.07,59.03,0,0,0.40,0,8.83,0
Minsk15,2.97,0.99,0.25,0,25.34,61.07,2.08,0,1.22,0,6.10,0
Minsk16,5.20,1.80,0.38,0,21.78,60.12,0,0,0,0,10.72,0
Minsk17,1.45,0,0.92,0.25,20.40,61.25,2.94,0.05,0,0,12.73,0
Minsk18,4.63,0.44,0.57,0,21.94,61.58,2.07,0,0.45,0,8.33,0
Minsk19,2.39,1.51,0.28,0,22.92,56.02,0.83,0.15,1.15,0,14.64,0.12
Minsk20,5.22,0.82,0,0,21.35,59.66,1.67,0,0,0.42,10.86,0
Minsk21,5.12,0.93,0,0,24.12,58.05,0,0,0,0.58,11.19,0
Minsk22,4.08,2.01,0,0.45,19.41,62.58,1.17,0,0.28,0,10.02,0
Minsk23,3.92,2.41,0.47,0,21.30,56.51,0.92,0,0.75,0,13.28,0.44
Minsk24,2.76,2.56,0,0,21.05,44.97,2.37,0.27,4.63,1.52,19.87,0
Minsk25,5.05,1.35,0,0,22.73,61.11,0.03,0,0,0.11,9.63,0
Minsk26,1.92,1.43,1.65,0,22.67,58.62,0,0,0.53,0,13.17,0
Minsk27,0.75,2.08,0.87,0.73,23.32,56.85,1.34,0,1.67,0,12.39,0
Minsk28,3.97,2.72,0,0,21.27,56.12,0.14,0,2.29,0,12.91,0.58
If I remember correctly someone already started that project some months ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas
I found it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Universe
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ith-TA-members
From the town of Haisyn in Vinnytsia
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 45.17
2 North_Atlantic 32.44
3 West_Med 11.97
4 East_Med 4.15
5 Oceanian 1.85
6 Siberian 1.61
7 Amerindian 0.83
8 West_Asian 0.63
9 East_Asian 0.54
10 Northeast_African 0.52
11 Sub-Saharan 0.31
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 5.52
2 South_Polish 6.81
3 Ukrainian 6.91
4 Estonian_Polish 7.13
5 Belorussian 7.22
6 Russian_Smolensk 7.73
7 Estonian 8.06
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.15
9 Southwest_Finnish 8.63
10 Southwest_Russian 9.1
11 Finnish 9.58
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.36
13 Lithuanian 10.37
14 Kargopol_Russian 11.26
15 East_Finnish 11.44
16 Croatian 12.58
17 East_German 13.88
18 North_Swedish 14.31
19 Hungarian 14.52
20 Erzya 14.94
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.2% Estonian + 11.8% Sardinian @ 3.08
2 79.7% Lithuanian + 20.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.58
3 77.8% Lithuanian + 22.2% Southwest_French @ 3.65
4 78.3% Lithuanian + 21.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.68
5 78.6% Lithuanian + 21.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.7
6 87.8% Belorussian + 12.2% French_Basque @ 3.8
7 77.7% Lithuanian + 22.3% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.82
8 78.1% Lithuanian + 21.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.82
9 78.9% Lithuanian + 21.1% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.87
10 83.4% Estonian + 16.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.88
11 79.2% Lithuanian + 20.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.9
12 83.2% Estonian + 16.8% North_Italian @ 3.93
13 82.8% Estonian + 17.2% Portuguese @ 3.96
14 77.9% Lithuanian + 22.1% Portuguese @ 3.97
15 84.3% Estonian + 15.7% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.98
16 82.2% Lithuanian + 17.8% French_Basque @ 3.98
17 88.2% Estonian_Polish + 11.8% French_Basque @ 4
18 79.8% Lithuanian + 20.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.03
19 83.7% Estonian + 16.3% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.05
20 82.7% Estonian + 17.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.05
Surname is very Polish btw, 17th most popular in Poland according to Forebears.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
From Chernivtsi
North_Atlantic 22.53 Pct Baltic 36.68 Pct West_Med 12.45 Pct West_Asian 11.12 Pct East_Med 13.45 Pct Red_Sea 0.92 Pct South_Asian - East_Asian 0.37 Pct Siberian 1.3 Pct Amerindian 1.01 Pct Oceanian 0.17 Pct Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
When will we get new Ukrainian averages for Vahaduo?
But how to create Ukrainian average correctly? South-western Ukraine is represented the best - so Ukrainian average shifts to Croats and Slovaks. If northern Ukraine was represented the best - average would shift to Belarussians. Your autosomal investigation of Croats is much more better because all regions are well represented. It cannot be said so about Ukraine - some important regions like Podolia or Middle Dnieper are almost not represented. Volyn is also badly represented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stearsolina
That is why you should create weighted Ukrainian national average - so each region is represented according to population size.Quote:
Originally Posted by smd555
So, if most Ukrainians live eg. around Kiev than central Ukraine should be given more weight according to it's percentage in total population.
It's not hard to make, Ion or Vbnethkio can help with that.
Ion, where do you find Ukrainian samples? On some forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ion Basescul
Get them on G25. K13 is TA autism.
For some reason Davidski ignore Ukrainian regions from all datasets and use only average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine