You're right on freddie but salman rushdie is from kashmir where they look a bit different to others in the surrounding regions.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBear
You're right on freddie but salman rushdie is from kashmir where they look a bit different to others in the surrounding regions.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBear
Something like an Iranic Y-DNA doesn't exist. You're talking bullnuts. Anatolian Turks have 7-12% Mongoloid on average whereas Turkmens have 8-25 % Mongoloid admixture. The "Turks are natives who switched to speak a Turkic language " theory has been already disproved by genetics. Why do Turks have Stockholm Syndrome as nation? Turks are linguistically Turkic and also partially genetically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vir9
Hold on a minute, what are you saying here? Afghans didn't even exist during the time of the sogdians or when the persians were still being ruled by parthians. Back then we were bactrians, arachosians, paropamisidaeans, kushans, hepthalites, scythians and a few others I'm forgetting. There's not much influence coming from refugees into iran or pakistan since to iran most of the 'afghan' refugees are hazara and to pakistan they're mostly pashtuns going into pashtun land in pakistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by crank
You mean his relatively light Middle Eastern look is typical there?Quote:
Originally Posted by scytsar
Salman Rushdie is a bit lighter and obviously his eyes are lighter than most but most kashmiris I've met in real life look like these. There's a bit of overlap between the two I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBear
Attachment 53204
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Fst distance between pashtuns and pamiris is 0.004. That's extremely close, backs up your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vir9
Pushtoons are good looking and nice people.. instead of denying the inner mongoloid they should embrace it. mongoloid race is great race in my opinion and have given a lot the world n there should b no shame in having traces of their linages in their genes. n regarding why south Asians shouldn't perceive them as south Asians here is why some south Asians are perplexed when afghans deny
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3B2T_X79lo...11603489_n.jpg
people from shillong ...... eastern india ..... south Asians
http://chennaionline.com/images/arti...OtherImage.jpg
people from chhenai ..... south india....south Asians
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress....0415-pin03.jpg
kashmiris
http://www.xpitude.com/wp-content/up...09696678_n.jpg
dardic people south Asians
http://cdnph.upi.com/collection/fp/u...-Kabul_5_1.jpg
afghans ... they are not south Asians ... r u kidding me
what mongoloid you autistic obsessed troll? You're literally posting old people and elders now and not youth whether in afghanistan or the west but yeah those are definitely pashtuns, you need to visit an optometrist if you think they're anything similar to daalkhors. There's a reason they call it the irano-afghan race and not anything else for christ's sake. first south asian and now mongoloid? Just end yourself, your mother must have dropped you on your head as a child for you to end up this retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatt
And you literally have to be trolling, every single indian and paki I know does not consider us south asian and considers us a completely foreign, with very little in common.
As everyone here have said, we're literally our own thing, we definitely have south asian in us as the genetic studies show (each showing an average of 7-12%), there's minimal asian and everything else is as it's written, now screw off and stop trying to lump us in with you when your own people on the overwhelming majority don't, when we consider ourselves not related to you and when the entire world shares the same sentiment.
I just read Pashtuns are mixed with Arabs? Are you serious the Arabs had barely any impact. Also Pashtuns don't show any genetic affinity to Arabia/Arabians like Levantines do, and to lesser extent some people in Southern Europe. Anyways Pashtuns seem to be mixed around the people around them, not Arabs. Although some might claim to be Syeds or Sharifs but often these ancestries are false with the exception of the Royal House of Hashemite in Arabia, Iraq, and Jordan. Also Pashtuns barely show any Semitic admixture, which often comes as sign of Arabian lineage. The Arabian impact was significant in the west in both linguistic and cultural aspect, but not so much in the east.
What you heard is false, or at least not completely true - arabs hardly have an impact, they probably have made more of an impact on western iran, during the Abbassid reign of khorasan there was some settling of arabs that occurred in eastern khorasan but it was quite minimal. Here's a link on that actuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Nabatea1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid...ion#Background
Yes I know, this why I said that Arabs did not make a significant impact, and Pashtuns have no relationship to Arabs unlike Levantines who do, and show a good amount of Arabian admixture. I would not called Southwest Iran impacted, as it was an Arab region just annexed by the Persians in 1925, and before by their empire. The same is true of the south Iranian islands, these islands are Arab to part of the UAE originally and inhabited by Arabs, but this besides my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by scytsar
pashtuns show much less arabic/semitic admixture than many except.Actually they show almost none or none .The muslim warriors and missionaries who spread islam to afghanistan were mostly converted afghans,persians or turks so quite few arabs settled there.Some still claim arabic ancestry in afghanistan but several genetic studies showed that this people are almost entirely of local origin and lack semitic admixture. Some arabs settled in modern iran (khuzestan and khorasan) but their genetic impact should not be exaggerated there and was probably also very lowQuote:
Originally Posted by Nabatea1
Persian language dominated the eastern islamic world in the past like arabic dominated the western islamic world. So persian language and culture was closely linked to the court culture,poetry and the elites in the eastern islamic world. Most eastern islamic people were much more influenced by persian language and culture than by arabic language and culture because of that
But Pashtuns were for the most time a rather rural and isolated population and some even lived as nomads so they lived mostly outside of the urbanized areas of central asia which were once dominated by eastern iranic languages like bactrian and sogdian but after the establishing of islam there, persian influences increased drastically in urban areas and most of the population of urban areas adopted persian which is a western iranic language. Later persian spread from this urban areas further into some rural areas and today some pamiri tajiks are also adopting persian as their first language
Pashtuns and pamiri people preserved their eastern iranic languages because they lived quite isolated for a long time and pashtuns often have a strong ethnic identity which is also but not only based on their language. Later many pashtuns moved into urban areas and were urbanized. Today most large cities in afghanistan and western pakistan have a large pashtun population. So many pashtuns in afghanistan speak also dari (afghan persian/farsi) and many pashtuns in pakistan speak also urdu.
It seems to be a rather common theme for Islamic peoples around the globe to claim ancestry from Syeds even when in reality most of them probably are not. Must be for status reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabatea1
I aint trolling my friend and if you don't like my views I can stop posting but you haven't got the crux of the last post..you aint more different to us than eastern Indians or southern to northern or andomanese to all Indians or tribal people of india to rest. ethipians are also black my friend although they perceive themelves to be arabs.. world view them as blacks. your peoplecan blend in well among kashmiris yep afghan wear is different I know. there are natives in north America who cluster with whites more but don't look it. if a black person is genotypically more closer to Europeans but look black he is black. regarding you accusing me for putting up picture of older afghans I can post crowd pictures from Kabul but stop behaving like gandhis 4 monkeys... n by the way irano afghans race can be found among many Indians its not confined to afghansitan..this is my last post ..peace outQuote:
Originally Posted by scytsar
you are just again embarrassing yourself here again. Most europeans think we are arabs,anatolian turks,caucasians or persians when they see us but some pashtuns even can look like southern europeans . Pashtuns are predominately west asian looking but with a distinct special look which they share to some extent only with tajiks,pamiri,nuristani,burusho and some other people in southern central asia. Nobody except some indians think that pashtuns could pass in india and indians could pass as pashtuns.Some pashtuns are quite dark and some have a indic shifted look but even most of the dark pashtuns look very different from odinary indians. The irano-afghan race doesnt exists among indians and just show me one indian who looks like a typical pashtun. Even kashmiri look still quite different from pashtuns but they have some similarities.I have never encountered one indian who looked similar to ordinary pashtuns and even jatts look just like other indians but a bit taller and lighter.Pashtuns speak an eastern iranic language,dont look south asian,cluster genetically with pamiri people,are muslims and have a very different lifestyle and culture compared to all south asians.Their only connection to south asia is that they raided it and invaded it very often and please dont say me that this make them already south asian.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatt
As I said before you should visit Nepal to get any misconceptions bout ur people Cleared. U don't look European or like us jatts u look like Kashmiris and mongoloid and caucasoid hybrid plus some look pakistani punjabi types. Don't flatter urself I never said u look like jatts. Kashmir and Nepal are the places where pashtoons can blend in easily
And for last time Pakistan n majority Afghanistan is in South Asia too
Kashmir yes but not in Nepal. I never seen a Pashtun looking like a Nepalese or Turanid, and all of the Afghans that i have met look either Iranian or West Asian. There are some who do look Indid or Turanid and etc but for the most part they look more Similar to Tajiks, Pamiris, Persians and to some extent to Levantines, Iraqis and North-west Indians.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatt
That's because u Probably nevEd been to Nepal. I lived in kathmandoo For couple Of years and believe me mixing of caucasoid and mongoloid for years do produce theSe Pashtoon types. They ain't even fairer in complexion to Nepalis contrary to what Many here would been believing. Pashtoons are south Asians n like their buddy Pakistani suffer from inferiority complex. They think by being south Asians people will think they are like Tamils. Now we jatts are what 20 percent North euro by genotype yet we take it as an insult if someone would say we are not from South asia. Lack of self respect I would say. Living in South Asia but we Ain't south Asians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900
Iranians have a softer differEnd look pashtoons look more mountainous breed N regarding turanid type just look at their famous politician Imran khan he looks a cross between mongoloid and Caucasoid
From what i have seen from a genetic study about the Pashtuns is that they cluster very closely with Tajiks and North-west indians than to west Asians and Europeans. Honestly, the Kashmiris and the people of North-west Pakistan look no different from many Afghans.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatt
Well, my people arent good for nothing whatsoever, and no, i don't identify or associate myself to any northern MEs whatsoever. The only people i do strongly associate myself with are to NAs, Syrians, Iraqis, Jordanians, and with other Arabians. Many Turks and Persians from what i have seen have a sense of OWD thinking that bashing other darker races would make white people accept them. Like i said, im proud of who i am, and im not ashamed of my culture or heritage, and if Indians hate us that much then why the fuck are they living here in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by jatt
As for the thread, yes, Pashtuns are genetically South Asians, and they dont cluster with Middle Easterners OR Europeans.
Pashtuns look like their neighbours close to them, it does not take genius to figure this out.
It would be good to see how all groups in the region compare to each other. Even in the genographic project Afghans are different from MENA's. They have a Southwest Asian component, not the Arabian one, but a different on that peaks in them and found in good amounts near neighbouring people like the Burushos, and it's close to West Asian yes but it also is different. Real West Asian is closest to North Euro and peaks in Georgians and other Kavkaz people.
Spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabatea1
Pashtuns are genetically distinct from Northern Middle Easterners aka Turks, Iranians, Lebanese, Syrians, Kurds etc, and are distinct in general from all West Asians/Middle Easterners/Europeans. This shouldn't even be a question.
First and foremost they cluster with other South Asians (Kashmiris, Punjabi Jatts, Sindhi's, High Caste Hindu Indians), and Tajiks, and they look like it as well.
Jatt is right they indeed resemble Kashmiris alot phenotypically.
South Asia is diverse. They are part of this beautiful mosaic. Their Central Asian-like culture makes it even more nice to see how extremely diverse the people of South Asia are, and how it ranges from Tamil culture, to Northeast Indian culture, to Sindhi culture, to Pashtun culture, to Gujarati culture, to Kashmiri culture, etc. etc.
Let me have also my experiences expressed.
The Pashtuns are on the crossroad of South, Central and West Asia. Pashtuns don't look like South Asians, in the sense of how most people imagine South Asians to look like(Punjabi/Sindi/Karachi Pakistani and Indian).
Pashtuns have their own unique look. They often look like West Asians but with some Punjabi like features/admixture in it. The only South Asians who can look similar to Pashtuns are usually Kashmiris, Kalash and Burusho but that also not because Pashtuns look like them but because allot of Kashmiris look like Pashtuns.
Balochistan is techniqally in Southwest Asia so I don't mention them. Most of the time you can tell apart Pashtuns from Punjabis and the kind easilly.
They look like West with some South Asian vibe on them.
I have come across quite some Pashtuns One of them looked like some sort of Amerindian admixed Iberian. Two looked like a Persian with some Punjabi and a bit of Turkic admixture. Another one like a Kurd with some Punjabi admixture(basically Balochi like) and the last one looked totally Kurdish.
I have also seen an Afghan who looked like a cross between Persian and Indian, turned out he was a real afghanized Punjabi. Didn't knew that something like that exists, before.
The average Pashtun from my experience look like this.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...dd3c727203ae36https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...54d51de508521ehttps://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...99972339_o.jpghttps://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/...25&oe=553B9F21https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/...1a&oe=5501C3C5https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...594ac99fb09fd0https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...f3c3bc374e76adhttps://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...5b0f6b9f0aa0d9
pashtuns are in no sense part of south asia so stop trolling again.Afghan pashtuns like durrani and Ghilzai look much more west asian shifted than pashtuns of pakistan who absorbed many dardic genetic influences.People should just stop to look at some pashtuns from peshawar and then to think to think that pashtuns in afghanistan have the same look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthbetold
pashtuns have their own unique look which gives a pseudo-west asian vibe.I have never encountered anyone outside of this forum and some crazy indians who thinks that this look is close to anyone in south asia.Pashtuns have a sharper and longer face than south asians and are very easy distingush from south asians.Genetically they still cluster closest to pamiri and their y-dna is more than 80% indoeuropean,west asian or central asian.But some pashtuns mixed with indian women or have a dardic origin so some pashtuns can look indic shifted but from my personal experience they are a minority among afghan pashtunsQuote:
Originally Posted by Demhat
wow nepal??? why not indonesia? This is one of the most stupid things about pashtuns i have ever heard.Some pashhtuns can look similar to kashmiri and other whiter northwestern indians but not to people of nepal who look for me like a mix of hazara and northern indians.Quote:
Originally Posted by jatt
I concur with most of your post. Except for the fact that you're mistaking the position of Afghanistan (on the crossroads of West, Central, and South Asia), with the Pashtun ethnic group, the vast majority of them living in Pakistan, which is South Asia, and the lesser amount in Afghanistan as the predominant ethnic group there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demhat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_peopleQuote:
Regions with significant populations
1) Pakistan 29,342,892 (2012)[4]
2) Afghanistan 12,776,369 (2012)[5]
Pashtuns are South Asians genetically as everyone has seen and everyone agrees with. Even historically they're tied even more to South Asia (modern day Pakistan, and North India) than Central Asia proper. Geographically the largest amount of them also live in South Asia (Pakistan). I don't think anyone can refute this.
They're so similar to Kashmiris, who are also South Asians. If Pashtuns are not South Asians, then so are not Punjabi Jatts, Burusho, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachali High Castes, etc. lol.
I agree with Jatt, them not accepting being South Asian would be borderline self hate. Hence why I opened this thread to question all this. It shouldn't even be a question imho.
http://aminus3.s3.amazonaws.com/imag...6a54_large.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5292/5...f42f470a_z.jpg
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/P...Toroy29DFl.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5069/5...d757e295c6.jpg
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-bKlvYrmrjU/maxresdefault.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...b14b3e1161fc61
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph...627048641n.jpg
http://www.geourdu.co/wp-content/upl...01/Pashtun.jpg
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0525184404.jpg
http://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2014...x9_600x338.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5227/5...f2142a8272.jpg
http://www.balochonline.com/en/wp-co...an_4357979.jpg
They have one of the best looking features amongst all South Asians imho.
Interesting how similar Northwest South Asians (Pashtuns, Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's etc) look.
Punjabi Jatts:
http://static1.demotix.com/sites/def...le_2070910.jpg
http://www.joshuaproject.net/assets/...tos/p15382.jpg
Kashmiri people:
http://media.nj.com/star-ledger/phot...b139d7a7fd.jpg
http://static2.demotix.com/sites/def...487_111487.jpg
http://static3.demotix.com/sites/def...tos/111490.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...shmiri_man.jpg
http://www.asiaexplorers.com/india/k.../people/05.jpg
Pashtuns:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5144/...b4f74b7842.jpg
http://proof.nationalgeographic.com/...t-featured.jpg
Sindhi people:
http://i1.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/...08-640x480.jpg
You posted the same pictures again and again. Haven't you seen the other links on the other pages? They show afghans in the west, who take care of their appearance etc. Anyone can cherry pick certain group pics. Plus your pics don't makes sense, these so many people in one pic, a person will not look at their features but look at their pigmentation, clothing and environment and automatically assume they look thr same. There's videos and pics of afghans, individual, as well, any Afghan would know that these pics are not representative. You can say what you want, who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthbetold
A member on another forum who has actual knowledge of genetics.
" Based on my understanding ( and this may be flawed) is that Pashtuns are essentially a South Central Asian people, that is they are mainly a West Eurasian People (over 90% of their Genome (ANE = West Eurasian), we know that ANE were the first West Eurasians who entered that region). Other Iranian groups such as Kurds, Persian have lower ANE, but they have higher ANE than other West Asians, Hence why Iranian have a pull towards the South Central Asians.
During the Neolithic period, "Ancient Near Easterners" absorb ANE hunter gatherers across West Asia, and eventually, they reach South Asia and South Central Asia and they mix with local population. So South Central Asia became = Mainly(ANE+ASI)+ Near Eastern in that period.
Then Indo-Iranian populations rich in ANE enter South Asia and South Central Asia via the northwestern passes in contemporary Afghanistan and northwestern Pakistan. (Pashutn Area was the entry point to the Indian Subcontinent.)
More admixture with ANE-rich populations occurs across the centuries, with Scythian people, Kushans, and other similar groups who migrate into South Asia and South Central Asia.
At the end of it all, people in the northwest and south central Asia basically become West Eurasians (because West Eurasian gene flow is constantly diffusing throughout the area),
However, among the Iranic peoples of South central Asia (Pashtuns and Baloch), there are some intense episodes of West Asian gene flow which sets them apart from NW Indians and Makes them closer to Iranians such as Persian, Kurds, Azeris etc.
Then later on you have Turkic-Mongolic admixture occurs among Pashtun tribes.
So all in all, Pashtuns have highest Near Eastern Admixture and lowest ASI compared to any NW South Asians ( i.e. Punjabi, Kashmirs, Sindhi etc). The level of these two admixture plus the environmental factors tbh clearlysets the Pashtuns apart from North West South Asian, but North West South Asian do have a pull towards South Central Asians. "
If you look at the K=7 eurogenes run, the afghans are clearly separated from the northwest South Asians. I'll post the results.
They don't ckuster with South Asians at all. The only ones who ckuster with sindhis sre thr psthans from Pakistan, rumour has it they have been pashtunized dardics. They're resukts compared to afghan pashtuns backs it up. The afghan pashtuns are distinct from west asians and northwest South asians, they are ckuster with pamiris and yaghnobis( fully caucasoid btw check their pics). However, afghans are a western eurasuan prople genetically like western asians but due to Central asuan isolation we are distinct from west asians but have a heavy pull towards west asians. It's the northwest South Asians that have a pull towards us not the other way round. Read the quote above made by an iranian member.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900
People think we are a south asuan people etc showing very dark poor povery strived people. That's absurd. Why don't truthbetold go to anthrogenica and say this? Because he's got no clue what he's saying, they'll all laugh at him over their. Afghans are a western eurasuan people but due to isolation with thr Central asian pamiris and yaghnobis we have become distinct from west asians.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT.../s1600/1_2.png
The pathans as you can see ckuster with sindhis, however the pashtuns will couster above them with s pull towards west asua and Caucasus.
Seems our (Northwest) South Asian friend Dynamo has returned on a sock account :)
Go to anthrogenica please and say this. They are knowledgable people who actually know what they are talking about. Take the mick, who cares, but ignorance is blinding you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthbetold
Afghan Pashtun (Popalzai/Durrani) (Kandahar) ANE:26.42% ASE:9.32% WHG-UHG:11.34% Eastern eurasian :3.07% ENF: 47.59%