Will do!
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Because non-Kajkavian Croats are more Balkanic! But northern Croats are their second closest population. Here is full gradient run with yet unreleased updated averages for DE/AT
Distance to: Slovene
1.75011428 Austrian_Carinthia
2.35561032 Croat_North
2.61688746 Hungarian_North
2.64406883 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.00680894 Hungarian
3.60585635 Hungarian_Alföld
3.71052557 Slovak
3.94120540 Austrian_Styria
4.62319154 Czech
4.66495445 German_Lower_Silesia
5.23260929 Croat
5.56997307 Lemko_Poland
5.95767572 German_County_Glatz
6.23000803 Croat_West
6.43136844 Croat_East
6.93082968 Ukrainian_Carpathians
7.13686906 Austrian
7.20215940 German_Thuringia_East
7.25472949 German_North_Bohemia
7.36645098 Bosniak
7.54469350 Ukrainian_Galicia
7.79619138 Csángó-Ceangău
7.98839784 Croat_South
8.20876361 German_Thuringia_Central
8.25676087 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
First written mention of Slovenes dates to the very first printed books in the Slovene langugage. The books are called Katekizem and Abecedari, written by Primo Trubar in 1550.
In this work, for the first time in recorded history, he named his compatriots Slovenes and founded Slovene as a literary language - he gave the Slovene nation a language that met the needs of all classes, from simple peasants to nobility and clergy.
https://i.imgur.com/tJH2M2Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vKEeR8P.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PIGDymW.jpg
Maybe they've referred to themselves as Slovenes even prior to that, but it's impossible to know, because there is no such earlier written sources in the language.
You'd have to examine sources from other languages, but that might rather give an idea what others called them, rather than what they called themselves.
Slovaks have a pretty similar history of developing quite late an own ethnic sense, even though Slavs lived in Upper Hungary/Slovakia for a very long time before that. It's an interesting topic for another thread why did it take so long for this to happen. Today both Slovenia and Slovakia are pretty successful countries by regional standards, which are also rather close genetically.
Not true. Your claim is an obsolete and - by the way - very leftist view, which has been challenged recently for example by Azar Gat and Alexander Yakobson in their book "Nations - The Long History and Deep Roots of Political Ethnicity and Nationalism".
"In this major study, Azar Gat counters the prevailing fashionable theories according to which nations and nationalism are modern and contrived or 'invented'. He sweeps across history and around the globe to reveal that ethnicity has always been highly political and that nations and national states have existed since the beginning of statehood millennia ago. He traces the deep roots of ethnicity and nationalism in human nature, showing how culture fits into human evolution from as early as our aboriginal condition and, in conjunction with kinship, defines ethnicity and ethnic allegiances. From the rise of states and empires to the present day, this book sheds new light on the explosive nature of ethnicity and nationalism, as well as on their more liberating and altruistic roles in forging identity and solidarity."
Check also - https://www.cato.org/blog/uncomforta...ty-nationalism
The author lists the following Eastern Slavic nations, and their approximate population sizes:
Rossyanie [Russians] - 28,000,000
Rusini [Ruthenians*] - 8,000,000
Kozacy [Cossacks] - 1,000,000
*What we call today Ukrainians, Belarusians & Carpathian Rusyns are lumped together here.
It is interesting that Cossacks are listed separately & the number is given as 1 million people.
I guess this 1 million Cossacks includes women and children too?
Maybe we can have a new thread? Only for updates and technical questions, no irrelevant bullshit. This one has become gigantic and very difficult to navigate.
Cossacks were always multi-ethnic. Stephen Bathory mentions them as mix of Lithuanian Poles, Muscovites and Romanians. Romanians who lived over the Dniester often became Cossacks historically, and received this nickname when they settled in Moldavia region. Many famous Cossack leaders and hatmans had full or partial ancestry from Romanians that lived in Southern Ukraine.
This is why this surname exists here.
https://forebears.io/surnames/cazacu
Davidski confirmed to me that the old Southwest English average was based just on Cornwall samples (doesn't remember how many), so I made a new Cornish average by averaging it 33% with my average of Cornish kits (12), so it is decently distinct but still realistic. The gedmatch average was too outlying IMO. Ambivalent about it being added though, not bothered.
https://i.postimg.cc/Ptyn0sB8/Vahaduo-Custom-PCA-8.pngCode:Cornish,50.74,22.64,14.54,5.18,3.71,0.60,0.82,0.12,0.06,0.70,0.52,0.17,0.14
Distance to: Cornish
0.87532851 English_Southwest
1.67755775 Welsh
1.69457959 English
1.88454238 English_Midlands
1.90743283 English_North
2.37377337 English_Southeast
2.39100397 Scottish_North-Highlands
2.45332428 Scottish_East
2.62648053 Scottish_Northeast
2.64618593 French_Northwest
2.66926956 Scottish
2.83660008 Irish_Leinster
3.03952299 Scottish_Southwest
3.11533305 Orcadian
3.16943213 French_Brittany
3.86385818 Irish
3.98888456 Dutch
4.22772989 Scottish_Gŕidhealtachd
4.24274675 Dutch_Central
4.30146487 Irish_Munster
By the way, why haven't the Lithuanian pops by Piotr been added yet? A very solid academic dataset. And I'm sure he filtered out all the outliers and dubious samples.
German and Austrian update is here!! :)
Please delete all German averages as well as Austrian and German general averages and replace them with these:
Code:Austrian,36.84,27.27,15.90,7.36,9.10,1.32,0.60,0.23,0.48,0.27,0.41,0.06,0.10
Austrian_Burgenland,38.13,26.01,13.17,6.50,12.79,0.87,0.36,0.27,0.62,0.24,0.71,0.00,0.32
Austrian_Carinthia,32.36,33.44,14.41,6.52,10.49,1.02,0.34,0.00,0.64,0.27,0.33,0.04,0.07
Austrian_Lower_Austria,37.42,24.75,17.87,8.14,7.73,1.585,0.97,0.24,0.425,0.225,0.64,0,0
Austrian_Styria,34.20,31.69,15.07,7.48,8.45,0.7 9,0.31,0.33,0.77,0.19,0.16,0.21,0.36
Austrian_Tyrol,36.88,20.87,18.12,8.21,11.75,1.88,0.20,0.34,0.72,0.52,0.33,0.00,0.07
Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria,38.78,27.33,14.66,6.69,9.37,1.49,0.58,0.18,0.23,0.31,0.35,0.03,0.00
German,42.05,27.91,13.69,6.10,6.31,1.23,0.86,0.16,0.32,0.43,0.32,0.35,0.29
German_Baden-Württemberg,40.95,22.52,15.86,6.68,10.49,1.08,0.82,0.32,0.38,0.32,0.41,0.08,0.09
German_Brandenburg_Northwest,42.26,31.81,11.86,6.84,3.28,0.18,1.52,0.16,0.05,0.82,0.68,0.45,0.11
German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow),26.92,44.46,14.49,5.95,6.25,0,0,0.72,0,0.17,0.74,0,0.3
German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz,39.39,24.70,14.56,6.30,11.55,0.44,1.22,0.15,0.32,0.75,0.39,0.13,0.13
German_Bavaria_Proper,40.02,23.94,15.40,7.03,10.46,1.26,0.35,0.29,0.25,0.58,0.36,0.04,0.00
German_Bavarian_Swabia,34.71,26.3,19.15,7.19,11.37,0,0,0,0,0.37,0.4,0,0.46
German_County_Glatz,35.77,31.04,14.63,8.13,7.64,0.3,0,1.02,0,0.72,0,0.72,0
German_East_Prussia_Central,46.40,36.05,9.33,1.39,2.77,2.18,0,0.12,0.19,0.31,0.99,0.18,0.09
German_East_Prussia_Masuria,33.26,44.37,9.00,4.57,3.12,0.15,2.31,0.47,0.75,0.74,0.61,0.00,0.68
German_East_Prussia_Memelland,29.91,52.02,10.63,3.88,0,0,1.83,0,0.81,0.58,0,0,0.34
German_Farther_Pomerania,40.04,36.96,9.53,5.79,3.25,1.31,1.30,0.16,0.03,0.33,0.36,0.69,0.26
German_Frisian,55.45,25.92,9.33,2.93,1.79,1.02,2.22,0,0.33,0,1,0,0
German_Hamburg,50.83,28.92,8.41,3.93,4.04,1.33,1.32,0,0.62,0.15,0,0.45,0
German_Hither_Pomerania,44.4,31.31,9.62,7.56,4.12,0.7,0.43,0.31,0.88,0.2,0,0.48,0
German_Lower/Middle_Franconia,41.30,24.80,15.01,7.01,8.85,0.68,0.72,0.12,0.22,0.65,0.10,0.42,0.08
German_Lower_Saxony_North,49.34,27.83,10.89,5.58,2.87,0.29,1.79,0.52,0.16,0.12,0.52,0.08,0.00
German_Lower_Saxony_South,48.78,25.87,11.39,6.78,3.82,0.44,1.48,0.00,0.51,0.31,0.04,0.12,0.45
German_Lower_Silesia,34.34,36.33,12.87,6.99,6.65,0,0.6,0,0.31,0.85,0.34,0.47,0.23
German_North_Bohemia,38.27,31.61,13.93,5.63,7.42,0.38,0.90,0.53,0.10,0.41,0.50,0.00,0.31
German_North_Hesse,43.69,22.35,14.83,4.48,10.49,1.78,0,0.69,0,0.86,0.22,0,0.6
German_North_Moravia,40.94,27.21,13.27,7.36,7.57,1.49,1.04,0,0,0.48,0.19,0.46,0
German_North_Rhine,43.36,21.95,15.88,7.62,8.34,0.62,0.96,0.13,0.23,0.17,0.38,0.23,0.13
German_Rhineland-Palatinate,42.44,20.12,17.36,5.05,11.26,1.57,0.27,0.15,0.65,0.45,0.39,0.11,0.20
German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine,46.37,21.92,13.75,6.97,7.95,2.21,0.46,0.00,0.00,0.03,0.00,0.20,0.15
German_Saarland,43.50,20.17,18.47,5.85,9.04,1.30,1.03,0.00,0.20,0.12,0.04,0.17,0.09
German_Saxony,38.88,30.83,13.16,6.57,7.10,1.36,0.27,0.02,0.31,0.40,0.29,0.61,0.21
German_Saxony-Anhalt_South,41.19,31.63,11.12,5.16,7.34,1.02,0.62,0.25,0.28,0.56,0.50,0.20,0.12
German_Schleswig-Holstein,50.35,26.87,11.48,4.44,3.57,0.78,0.52,0.27,0.18,0.83,0.39,0.09,0.24
German_South_Hesse,41.78,21.94,17.52,5.66,8.80,1.50,0.66,0.33,0.41,0.56,0.46,0.11,0.27
German_Thuringia_Central,38.63,30.19,13.73,4.49,9.55,0.38,1.70,0.00,0.25,0.47,0.75,0.00,0.00
German_Thuringia_East,37.78,32.62,11.52,6.80,7.19,1.13,0.84,0.24,0.64,0.67,0.47,0.00,0.07
German_West_Bohemia,38.06,27.32,15.52,7.55,9.66,0,0.17,0,0.4,0.58,0.74,0,0
German_West_Mecklenburg,45.13,33.44,9.22,6.21,3.28,0.16,0.49,0.62,0.34,0.34,0.33,0.43,0.00
German_Westphalia,48.90,25.72,11.45,6.87,3.44,0.81,1.08,0.20,0.26,0.57,0.25,0.06,0.39
German_West_Prussia,36.43,38.85,11.22,5.87,4.80,0.17,0.81,0.00,0.71,0.44,0.36,0.00,0.32
Upper_Silesia,33.01,43.21,9.27,6.4,5.21,0.26,0.67,0,1.04,0.31,0.58,0,0.06
PCA:
https://i.imgur.com/VNSJ0k3.png
the four corners represent, roughly:
Germanic Baltic Celtic Slavic
No problem, ofc! For Germany and Austria we took 1939 census. Austria was calculated according to population percentage of each "state" excluding Vienna (too many foreigners and people from all over there) and excluding eg. Slovenian/Croatian/Hungarian minorities in Carinthia, Burgenland etc. For Voralberg as only state we lack samples from we used SW Germans (they are Allemanic speakers)
For Germany it was more complicated because of sheer size. We divided Germany into 4 genetic quadrants (including Sudeten Germans, Prussia etc), and selected one most representative average for each quadrant (in our estimation), and than we calculated how much percentage of total population each quadrant had. Berlin was included into NE Germany btw.
Than final average was weighted. We used: southern Lower Saxony average for NW quadrant, south Hesse for SW quadrant (which includes Bavaria btw), Saxony for SE quadrant and Farther Pomerania for NE quadrant.
Polish population in Prussia was excluded.
https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...cQ&oe=6208E755
(without Austria)
Yes, your average was very good! Pretty better than old Austrian one which was academic.
As for sample size, it was 6 samples for Saxony, 3 for Lower Saxony south, 9 for south Hesse and for east Pomerania 4.
We could have used Westphalia for NW for example, because it has 9 samples and it's very populated region but opted for south of Lower Saxony because it's likely more representative for NW quadrant (Westphalia is on it's south), etc.
So we didn't necessary use selected averages with most samples but one that was kind of a mid point for each genetic quadrant.
For example, both of these averages are from same state (NRW), but genetically they are clearly different.
Distance to: German_North_Rhine
2.68694994 French_Northeast
2.95240580 Belgian
3.22003106 German_South_Hesse
3.41274083 Flemish
3.46075136 German_Baden-Württemberg
3.53605713 Pennsylvania_Dutch
3.62082863 French_Alsace
3.66415065 Austrian_Upper_Austria
3.75864337 German_Saarland
3.76350900 German_Lower/Middle_Franconia
Distance to: German_Westphalia
0.84338603 German_Lower_Saxony_South
2.21752114 Dutch
2.31177421 Dutch_Central
2.69479127 Dutch_North
2.87456084 German_Lower_Saxony_North
3.12795460 German_Schleswig-Holstein
3.30146937 English_North
3.46209474 Icelandic
3.53141615 English_Midlands
3.57891045 English
States which are genetically uniform like Baden-Württemberg have only one average. I think we are now clear about that.
@Lucas please move Afrikaner and Pennsylvania Dutch averages into existing new world spreadsheet! They are secondary populations originating from several regions and bad for modeling of Dutch/Germans in Europe. Thanks!
Based on all this there is also this weighted average for Germans in the whole German Empire per beginning of 1939 plus Danzig plus Elsaß-Lothringen:
German(German_Empire_1939),41.60,27.86,13.88,6.21, 6.55,1.24,0.84,0.17,0.34,0.41,0.33,0.32,0.27
Distance to: German(German_Empire_1939)
1.98924609 German_North_Moravia
4.14270443 German_Bavaria_Lower/Middle_Franconia
4.16343608 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
4.19784469 German_Saxony
4.89083837 German_Saxony-Anhalt_South
5.22594489 German_North_Bohemia
5.30115082 German_Thuringia_Central
5.41957563 German_West_Bohemia
5.76295063 German_Brandenburg_Northwest
6.04795833 German_Bavaria_proper
6.42653095 German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz
6.62675637 German_Thuringia_East
6.82934111 German_Hither_Pomerania
6.90783613 German_North_Rhine
6.97392106 Austrian_LowerAustria
6.98266425 German_Baden-Württemberg
7.23902618 German_County_Glatz
7.34216589 German_South_Hesse
7.46479069 Austrian_Burgenland
7.48039437 German_North_Hesse
7.88053932 German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine
8.41215192 German_Lower_Saxony_South
8.61661186 German_Westphalia
8.76694360 Austrian_Styria
8.80835399 German_West_Mecklenburg
Out of the commonly known areas you can simplifying say that Franconia is closest to the pan German average. Simplifying, because Upper Franconia, that lacks a reference, will likely deviate somewhat from this Lower/Middle Franconian average.
^^^^and North Moravian Germans descend from Franconia too :)
BTW, this update was very significant, close to 60 new and verified kits with gedcomes and without foreign ancestry were added.
This new Austrian average seems to show that as previous speculations, they aren't in average that East-Central European shifted and more closer to Germans, while the old German average was surprisingly close to the new one:
Distance to: Austrian
3.12309142 Austrian(Old)
4.77140441 German_County_Glatz
4.86224228 German_Bavaria_proper
4.87351003 German_Bavarian_Swabia
5.05929837 German_Lower_Franconia
5.64447517 German_North_Bohemia
5.69019332 Austrian_Lower_Austria
6.11128464 French_Alsace
6.30177753 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
6.54740407 German_Central_Hesse
6.58522589 Swiss_German
6.68826584 German_Upper_Swabia
6.88986212 Austrian_Upper_Austria
7.02864140 German_North_Baden
7.21482502 German
7.65413614 German_South_Hesse
7.91537112 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
7.96273194 Swiss_French
8.28474502 German_Rhineland-Palatinate
8.30428203 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
8.32376718 German_North_Rhine
8.40613466 German_Saxony
8.52489883 Pennsylvania_Dutch
8.64046874 Hungarian
8.82998301 Slovene
Distance to: German
1.24494980 German(Old)
What surprised me the most is that NW quadrant where purest Germanic population lives was actually smallest in percentage in total German population (without Austria). NW genetic quadrant was less than 20% of total German population.