Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

[Jana]

Could you run those samples through Dodecad too? I wonder if it's close to what I have. Probably so.

Will do!

[Jana]

I see their old average was really good, very close to the new one, also little bit surprising to me that both Slovaks and Czechs (used the new average) are closer to them than Croats:

Distance to: Slovene
0.81498466 Slovenian
3.00680894 Hungarian
3.71052557 Slovak
4.62319154 Czech
5.23260929 Croat

Because non-Kajkavian Croats are more Balkanic! But northern Croats are their second closest population. Here is full gradient run with yet unreleased updated averages for DE/AT

Distance to: Slovene

1.75011428 Austrian_Carinthia
2.35561032 Croat_North
2.61688746 Hungarian_North
2.64406883 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.00680894 Hungarian
3.60585635 Hungarian_Alföld
3.71052557 Slovak
3.94120540 Austrian_Styria
4.62319154 Czech
4.66495445 German_Lower_Silesia
5.23260929 Croat
5.56997307 Lemko_Poland
5.95767572 German_County_Glatz
6.23000803 Croat_West
6.43136844 Croat_East
6.93082968 Ukrainian_Carpathians
7.13686906 Austrian
7.20215940 German_Thuringia_East
7.25472949 German_North_Bohemia
7.36645098 Bosniak
7.54469350 Ukrainian_Galicia
7.79619138 Csángó-Ceangău
7.98839784 Croat_South
8.20876361 German_Thuringia_Central
8.25676087 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely

[Alenka]

yes and Styria is also very Slovenian like (and we have samples from north Styria even, still not very different than Carinthians). But it is more correct to say they are Germanized medieval Caranthanians, not Slovenians. Slovenes as nation formed in 19th century, and our samples have no recent Slovene ancestry, just Austrian/German.

First written mention of Slovenes dates to the very first printed books in the Slovene langugage. The books are called Katekizem and Abecedari, written by Primož Trubar in 1550.

In this work, for the first time in recorded history, he named his compatriots Slovenes and founded Slovene as a literary language - he gave the Slovene nation a language that met the needs of all classes, from simple peasants to nobility and clergy.

[Dunai]

First written mention of Slovenes dates to the very first printed books in the Slovene langugage. The books are called Katekizem and Abecedari, written by Primož Trubar in 1550.

In this work, for the first time in recorded history, he named his compatriots Slovenes and founded Slovene as a literary language - he gave the Slovene nation a language that met the needs of all classes, from simple peasants to nobility and clergy.

I didn't know Slovenes only appeared as late as the 16th century, from which prior groups they were based on?

[Alenka]

I didn't know Slovenes only appeared as late as the 16th century, from which prior groups they were based on?

Maybe they've referred to themselves as Slovenes even prior to that, but it's impossible to know, because there is no such earlier written sources in the language.
You'd have to examine sources from other languages, but that might rather give an idea what others called them, rather than what they called themselves.

[Jana]

First written mention of Slovenes dates to the very first printed books in the Slovene langugage. The books are called Katekizem and Abecedari, written by Primož Trubar in 1550.

In this work, for the first time in recorded history, he named his compatriots Slovenes and founded Slovene as a literary language - he gave the Slovene nation a language that met the needs of all classes, from simple peasants to nobility and clergy.

True, I even know for Primož Trubar! But in a modern sense of ethnic/national identity all European nations are product of 19th century era of romantic nationalism! Before that feudal system was an obstacle.

[Dunai]

Maybe they've referred to themselves as Slovenes even prior to that, but it's impossible to know, because there is no such earlier written sources in the language.
You'd have to examine sources from other languages, but that might rather give an idea what others called them, rather than what they called themselves.

Slovaks have a pretty similar history of developing quite late an own ethnic sense, even though Slavs lived in Upper Hungary/Slovakia for a very long time before that. It's an interesting topic for another thread why did it take so long for this to happen. Today both Slovenia and Slovakia are pretty successful countries by regional standards, which are also rather close genetically.

[Peterski]

Maybe they've referred to themselves as Slovenes even prior to that, but it's impossible to know

One Polish book published in years 1825 calls your nation Winds (Windowie).

All existing Slavic ethnic groups are listed in this book, and this name is only used for Slovenes.

The author of the book mentions Lusatian Wends separately (among West Slavs).

[Peterski]

But in a modern sense of ethnic/national identity all European nations are product of 19th century era of romantic nationalism!

Not true. Your claim is an obsolete and - by the way - very leftist view, which has been challenged recently for example by Azar Gat and Alexander Yakobson in their book "Nations - The Long History and Deep Roots of Political Ethnicity and Nationalism".

"In this major study, Azar Gat counters the prevailing fashionable theories according to which nations and nationalism are modern and contrived or 'invented'. He sweeps across history and around the globe to reveal that ethnicity has always been highly political and that nations and national states have existed since the beginning of statehood millennia ago. He traces the deep roots of ethnicity and nationalism in human nature, showing how culture fits into human evolution from as early as our aboriginal condition and, in conjunction with kinship, defines ethnicity and ethnic allegiances. From the rise of states and empires to the present day, this book sheds new light on the explosive nature of ethnicity and nationalism, as well as on their more liberating and altruistic roles in forging identity and solidarity."

Check also - https://www.cato.org/blog/uncomforta...ty-nationalism

[Leto]

One Polish book published in years 1825 calls your nation Winds (Windowie).

All existing Slavic ethnic groups are listed in this book, and this name is only used for Slovenes.

The author of the book mentions Lusatian Wends separately (among West Slavs).

May I ask what word(s) are used there for the Eastern Slavs?