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Is there any explanation for why this haplogroup reaches such high percentages in southern Albania?
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/cont...ogroup_I2a.gif
I would think that its the leftovers from Kutmichevitsa Slavs
http://www.protobulgarians.com/Stati...tonen%20-1.gif
Either that or its somehow native?
I never bothered learning about other y-dna clades other than my own but I2a1 seems very interesting regarding the balkans. I wonder why it's more common with balkan slavs than with other slavs. Could be the same reason as to why E-v13 is more common with albanians. They fucked like rabbits and had 10+ kids per family since the middle ages. What else are you gonna do in the mountans other than fuck and eat.
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This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 (L147.2+) is also known as as I2a-Din (for Dinaric).
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Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (possibly) joining Yamna's westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...DNA.shtml#I2a1
It is interesting how its so densely present in Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia, but are there any explanations as to why there is a large cluster in Albania?
I2a1 is very old pre R1b and R1a
I2a-Din is the Slavic marker I2a1b-L621
Acceptance of east euro slovanski kolbaški.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorcelow
Because Southern Albania was settled by a lot of Slavs, it had been in the hands of the Bulgarians and the Serbs at different times. The great amount of toponyms of Slavic origin there is a testament to that. When you have in mind that these Slavs wouldn't have only been I2 and R1 by that time, Middle and High Middle Ages, it implies an even greater amount of Slavic blood in the south of Albania than what those two haplogroups alone would imply.
Subjogated Bulgarians. Based on historical records.
There are ancient cities in the south and the people that founded them had slaves, hence slavic dna. That E-V13 is a slave originating haplogroup too.
I don't know nothing from genetics, but let's try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorcelow
First, how do you know that I2a1 is a slavic haplogroup? Seems that catgeorge have a different opinion.
Second, how can you be sure about the high concentration of this haplogroup in South Albania.
And third regarding this second map, can you tell us the source and did you noticed that according to this map most of this slavic settlements are north to Shkumbin river, which means not South but Central Albania?
Tani do na lėsh mos na ēa karin me ato teoritė e tua?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
There is nothing serious in your claims. You can not project here your familiar problems. If you have slavic blood in your family for obvious reason, this don't mean that South Albania is a slavic sea as you are trying to describe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
For you i have an direct and simple question:
Where are this slavs?
Nuk ke ndonje pune tjeter ti malok rrotkari qe te duket vetja Lab, vecse te jetosh brenda ne TA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Ik vazhdo merru me thasėt me flori, hajvan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
Shko tek cadre e lulit te mbeshtesesh rrevolucionin e malokeve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Tė qifsha nė bythė ty, Lulin dhe Ramėn bashkė.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
:cry2Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Here we talk about I2a1b Dinaric, not I2a1, which evolved long time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
So, mods, change this thread name to ''Slavic I2a1b in southern Albania''.
Po ti vjen nga nje rrace qe c'do popull qe ka rene ne kontakt me ju, ju ka qire ne bythe. Madje e pranoni me gojen tuaj qe jeni te shtypur, nga Shqiptaret, nga Maqedonasit, nga Serbet, nga Malazezet. Te vetmen gje qe mund te qish ti, jane dhite qe kullot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
O Tino, ik o sumēe mos na ēa trapin se mė ngatėrron me ndonjė tjetėr.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
So, you are suggesting that the OP is an idiot who don't know a shit of what he is trying to discuss here, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Nazione
He simply don't know which term to use, like 90% people which discuss about genetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Po si mund te ngaterrohesh ti. Edhe Somalezi Waadad duket si zoteri Anglez ne raport me ty. Ti je textbook malok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
How many examples of exemples of albanian ydna you have in total ??? Where are they???Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorcelow
I don't think more than 300 and most of them in the north.
When people know their klan origin than it's different, you can assume that every example is backed from thousands of other clan members otherwise everything it's just a speculation.
Thank you Europa Nazione.Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Nazione
BTW, i suggest to you as signature the song, we servs are Superman.
Ej, si po ecėn me firmat pėr vetingun, sa firma ke mbledhur te tavolina jote?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
So you suggesting I2a dinarid and E-v13 is slave origin. Who were the masters then?! J2 and R1b?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
Your logic is very weird but intruging. So If they were slaves why would slaves occupy the most fertile lands in all of europe not only balkan peninsula, E-v13 permanently occupying Dardania/kosovo the most fertile richest valley in balkans while on the other side I2a dinaric occupies bosnia criatia, the most fertile ladns in europe.
I dont understand?! Why dont the american slaves in USA dont occupy the best neighborhoods in the country, or england, or france?!
Nji mutQuote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
Erdhen nja dy vete por ne vend te firmes kishin shkru "qisha rilindjen ne bythe"
I don't know what haplogroup is slavic. I don't think haplogropus can be linked to ethnicities, especially ethnicities created after Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim
However, the facts are these:
* The people that founded the ancient cities had slaves. No doubt about that.
* (Maybe) there were slaves brought from north (I don't think so), but there is no doubt that there were slaves brought from the south, from Africa and Middle East. E1b (and all its derivations) is the first candidate for being linked to those slaves, because most of E1b carriers are still in Africa.
lets agree for the sake of the argument.. so who is the "master" haplogroup in the Balkans then?! Lets say they came with slaves, when how? It has to be 14k years ago. You still cant explain to me why would they occupy the best lands in the balkans today?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
Ev 13 is just the result of genetic drift and bottle neck etc Same shit with i2a, it's distribution in Bosnia etc is a founder effect but neither are from slaves lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim
Haplogroups are DNA fragments taken from only sexual chromosomes. The whole point of haplogrops is to provide a way to escape from the genetic bounds of ethnicity, which is DNA analysis of all chromosomes or autosomal DNA, and build a genetic tree that at its root unifies all races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim
However in the case of E1b and its derivatives, given that the overwhelming majority of its carriers are still in Africa and only a small fraction is found around the area that was the epicenter of ancient empires, it's almost safe to say that it has been brought with slaves. There is no better explanation than this.
Why is there I2a1 in South Albania? Well, you see son, when a man loves a woman....
You never talk about the Albanians who took Slavic brides. I guess it's more insulting for you to be a Slav paternally. Which is why you have a fetish for trying to link every ydna hg found in Albos to slavs, i guess. Soon you'll be telling us how ev13 is Slavic too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis
That Slavic ydna comes from subjogated Bulgarians who later got assimilated. Also another i2a subclade found in south is not Slavic but not found much in north, points again to bottleneck etc. Hence it's diverse distributions
Those are not even the same subclades. You, OP, and a lot of people here have no idea about ydnas or genetics in general. Go learn or sit back and learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
I am just explaining the mystery of the "birds and the bees".Quote:
Originally Posted by IceT
But yes, South Albania and Northwest Greece was a place of all sorts of mixings.
haha, I have read you around before even on an albanian forum i think, you're one of those devoted passionate anti-gheg tosk. Creative theory based on pure distaste of certain group of people, in a twsited sense. But E-v13 has produced some of greatest minds in the world not only best worriors through roman empire. How we explain that? chill on the hate towards us ghegs man,lol you funy though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokoli
You even have Bulgaro-Macedonian Slavs in Eastern Albania to this day. Point is, however, that Slavic Y-DNA is most common in South Albania, as is Slavic toponymy and the clear historical presence of Slavs in that area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laberia
What it shows is that, first of all, these populations were replaced by its current inhabitants, the Albanians. There wouldn't be such a preponderance of Slavic toponyms there if there wasn't ever a Slavic presence.
Secondly, it shows that the Slavs of South Albania were assimilated and absorbed into the Tosk Albanian population.
It's quite funny, Laberia. You guys are basically to Albanians what Arvanites are to Greeks.
And since there was always a strong Vlach presence in South Albania, we could call you SlavoVlachs: a melange of Albanians, Slavs, Vlachs and Greeks.
Not just Albania south but north too but they were more tribal and patriarchal in the north, they took brides from their neighbors. Also probably bottleneck effect in the is the result of ydna distribution today. I was interested to know how much genetic continuity there is between modern balkanites and ancient but all these autosomals show different results, bullshit plotting maps etc.and a lot seem to be scams. You could probably send your spit several times under different names and get different results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis
I'd reccomend people just to test ydna and save your money. You'll learn how it works once you get into it.
there is I1 found in the north linked to normans goths etc. They seem to of become latinized and some later albanized.
There is some i2a subclade in south Albania that is not Slavic though. I don't remember what it was. South Albania has way more Slavic toponyms. Malesia north Albania/south Montenegro mountains was inhabited by patriarchal mountain tribes. I know my ancestors came from there. But I can't say the same for every other Albanian.
Regarding ev 13 in Albanians, it's overrated. It's not the most Albanian or common than any other common one.
Those 40% E are old samples and very few people tested like 100 and 40% tested E I believe. I could be wrong about the number but the samples weren't that large.
You can ask the opposite question. If slaves had an haplogroup X, what distribution pattern should you expect for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim
You should expect that most of its carriers be still in Africa, and the small fraction that isn't in Africa should be found close to the remains of the ancient Empires. E1b is the haplogroup that represents best this pattern.
Haplogroups say nothing about single individuals, because they represent a very small fraction of the genetic material inherited by parents. A single person having haplogroup X could be blonde or dark haired, tall or short, healthy or ill, etc. So your claim that "E-V13 has produced some of the greatest minds in the world" doesn't make sense. Haplogroups are fractions of sexual chromozomes. In their entirety, sexual chromosomes determine only the sex.
When happened this replacement and assimilation of slavs by Albanians?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Abubu
Ti mund tė kesh lexuar debatet deri nė sharje ndėrmjet meje dhe kėtij tipi. Pyetja ėshtė, a i lexon pisllėqet qė poston bubuja, por jo vetėm ai?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawing-slim