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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...813.%29_en.png
Quote:
While the Hungarian tribes moved into Hungary, the Cumans still inhabited the vast areas of the Pontic–Caspian steppe, where they had created a powerful nomadic confederacy. The 13th-century Gesta Hungarorum claims that Cumans were present in the Principality of Hungary ca. 900, describing the Aba tribesmen as Cumans.
NKper2, Cuman
Y-DNA: R-Y147335 / R-Y147340
mtDNA: C4-a3a
Period: Principality of Hungary
Age: 900 - 1000 CE
Region: Nagykőrös, Hungary
https://i.ibb.co/8YfDTwG/IMG-20230904-145705.jpgCode:HUN_Conqueror_elite:NK2,0.07057,-0.19092,0.065996,-0.01292,-0.048932,-0.00753,0.018096,0.018692,-0.005113,-0.003827,-0.01835,-0.002698,-0.000743,-0.000826,0.005022,0.001591,0.000391,0.000253,-0.007542,-0.00025,-0.008235,-0.012489,-0.010476,-0.006868,-0.009101
K1per3286, Cuman
Y-DNA: R-Y14509 / R-PRX9
mtDNA: H3am
Period: Principality of Hungary
Age: 895 - 950 CE
Region: Karos, Hungary
https://i.ibb.co/7RSVvkD/IMG-20230904-145725.jpgCode:HUN_Conqueror_elite:K13286,0.068294,-0.192951,0.054682,-0.010982,-0.037545,-0.019243,0.011281,0.008538,-0.011658,-0.00164,-0.015914,-0.004796,0.001487,-0.009909,-0.002172,0.003447,0.009648,0.003167,-0.003897,0.009505,-0.011105,0.002473,-0.000986,0.002771,0.001676
K2per61, Cuman + Magyar
Y-DNA: R-Y14509 / R-PRX9
mtDNA: U4d2e
Period: Principality of Hungary
Age: 895 - 950 CE
Region: Karos, Hungary
https://i.ibb.co/q92jt3L/IMG-20230904-145640.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
https://i.ibb.co/kB9CSpv/IMG-20230904-145952.jpgCode:HUN_Conqueror_elite:K261,0.067156,-0.160454,0.071653,0.026486,-0.051086,-0.013387,0.012456,0.007384,-0.008999,-0.01221,0.007632,-0.004496,0.001189,-0.026561,0.001221,-0.01074,-0.005867,-0.000127,0.000503,-0.002501,-0.001622,0.006306,-0.00037,-0.004458,0.000838
Cuman,0.0715497,-0.1914873,0.0559366,0.0075644,-0.0412843,-0.0126619,0.0103699,0.0099816,-0.0065738,-0.0011669,-0.0110278,0.0012518,-0.0064357,-0.002615,0.0106448,-0.0048602,-0.0076278,0.0016897,0.0034098,0.005972,0.0030049,-0.0047128,-0.0054303,-0.0065954,0.0032054
Ugric,0.0870747,-0.1652267,0.1100061,0.0617576,-0.0731829,-0.021084,0.0080607,0.0149301,0.001043,-0.0346065,0.0506652,-0.0041213,0.0211841,-0.0705318,-0.0246334,-0.0127417,-0.0009257,-0.0004433,-0.0067247,-0.012781,-0.0024956,0.0233827,0.0150733,-0.0027112,-0.0073646
Bulgar,0.0901031,-0.0761796,0.0473007,0.0256367,-0.0378287,-0.0032599,0.0034884,0.0032268,-0.0141765,-0.0164131,-0.0050452,0.0006254,-0.001584,-0.0174378,0.0085131,0.0006616,-0.0033171,-0.0000665,0.0006416,0.0047729,-0.0097415,0.0001463,-0.0033737,0.0013826,-0.0013235
Noise,-12.44767532,6.606885849,-3.370168948,-3.59812985,1.655142075,1.236853519,3.820298164,-3.594007426,-4.330119514,3.367918549,-5.172234764,-3.658708808,-3.318003413,3.305118191,4.047354142,-3.627204234,-1.292250731,-0.797743268,1.232937853,-1.303518489,-0.973408148,-0.101017336,-2.870551705,-0.3191362,2.155097955
Magyar,0.087833317,-0.142920312,0.094298335,0.052709278,-0.064326637,-0.016619045,0.006915334,0.011998412,-0.0027695,-0.030049035,0.036709689,-0.002932247,0.015480668,-0.0572317,-0.016330169,-0.00938416,-0.001524748,-0.000348911,-0.004879435,-0.00838373,-0.004310705,0.017561959,0.010452308,-0.001685699,-0.005851299
https://i.ibb.co/QDjBDqN/IMG-20230904-145615.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/yRjCfGY/IMG-20230904-150535.jpgCode:Cuman_Pannonia_avg,0.0701379,-0.1917861,0.0588715,-0.0054459,-0.0425871,-0.013145,0.013249,0.0124039,-0.0077816,-0.0022113,-0.0150973,-0.0020807,-0.0018972,-0.00445,0.0044983,0.0000593,0.0008037,0.0017032,-0.0026764,0.0050757,-0.005445,-0.0049096,-0.0056308,-0.0035641,-0.0014065
Couldn't they be Pechenegs instead of Cumans and what is your thoughts on the Medieval Ploiești sample ?
Target: Demirkazık_scaled
Distance: 3.2355% / 0.03235486
50.2 Anatolian
16.8 Georgian
10.0 Cuman
10.0 Magyar
9.2 Bulgar
3.6 Ugric
0.2 Noise
That's certainly plausible! Ploiești_MA is most likely a Pecheneg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demirkazık
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...te-kir-aba.jpg
Quote:
Samuel Aba reigned as King of Hungary between 1041 and 1044. He was born to a prominent family with extensive domains in the region of the Mátra Hills.
According to the anonymous author of the Gesta Hungarorum, Samuel's family descended from two "Cuman" chieftains, Ed and Edemen, who received "a great land in the forest of Mátra" from Árpád, Grand Prince of the Hungarians around 900.
Great job on this thread as well as the previous ones! I would like to share my results based on your sources: Slavic, Finnic, Ugric, Early Bulgar (from Danubian Bulgar thread), Caucasus, Balkan, Cuman. I'm half russian with german ancestry and half volga tatar. My Y-DNA is J2-M92.
Target: Max_scaled
Distance: 2.7895% / 0.02789530
68.0 Slavic
20.8 Bulgar
11.2 Balkan
Fantasy map. Cumans never had the power to keep together such a confederacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
Besides, showing Vlachs in present-day Greece/Bulgaria on the map, but not in Romania, I can tell that this map has a Hungarian source :lol:
In reality, Cumans were a tiny nomad population in the area of Romania, Vlachs were far more numerous.
And another results with Late Bulgar from this thread
Target: Max_scaled
Distance: 2.7628% / 0.02762787
70.8 Slavic
23.8 Bulgar
5.0 Balkan
0.4 Ugric
You think that is bad ? You should look at English Wikipedia the Hungarians have a monopoly on the Romanian pagesQuote:
Originally Posted by dviz
I'm glad you like my threads :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Max18
Mind sharin' your coordinates?
yeah, ofc:)
Max_scaled,0.127482,0.074134,0.057699,0.053295,0.0 18773,0.011156,0.00611,0.010615,-0.001023,-0.01385,-0.000812,-0.007643,0.013677,0.008395,-0.005565,0.016971,0.017602,0.004814,0.001885,0.002 251,-0.008735,-0.003586,0.003821,-0.001084,-0.001078
Target: Ahmet_scaled
Distance: 2.6182% / 0.02618195
47.2 Anatolian
32.8 Caucasian
20.0 Bulgar
Target: Domitius_scaled
Distance: 1.7843% / 0.01784349
67.6 Anatolian
30.8 Bulgar
1.6 Magyar
Are you Turkic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max18
No cuman matches, unless it's captured in the Croats.
Target:
Distance: 1.6166% / 0.01616610
32.0 Croatia_Medieval
28.6 Israel_C
19.0 Czech_Medieval
17.8 Armenia_EBA_KuraAraxes_Kalavan
2.6 Albania_Medieval
Hoş geldin bandan kurtulmuşsun :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DomitiusAurelian
Yarı yarıyaymış, yarı Rus+Alman yarı Tatar. Y-DNA'sı karışımından çok daha ilginç.
my mom is 1/4 german + 3/4 russian, my father is volga tatar. And my y-dna is J2-m92Quote:
Originally Posted by DomitiusAurelian
Any idea where your Y-DNA comes from and which subclade it belongs to ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max18
I did my dna test at myheritage and accordingly I got my Y-DNA data through morleydna. Not sure about the subclade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demirkazık
As for where this Y-DNA came from - no idea :D
I only know that this variant of Y-DNA is not very common among Volga Tatars. Perhaps it is really an echo of Bulgars or something like that.
What is interesting, according to illustrativedna in mode Ancient Populations 'Mixed Mode' Three Way almost all results look as follows: 50% Balt + 25% Archaic Greek (or Albanian) + 20-25% Tian Shan Hun (or Saka of the central steppe/Pazyryk culture/Cimmerians/Magyars).
Experimental tree
Attachment 123114
ISOGG tree
Attachment 123115
Your Y-DNA is very strange, never seen it in among Tatars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max18
These are my results from IllustrativeDNA:
https://i.ibb.co/prHjMrb/Screenshot-4.png
my results)
Attachment 123116
Bunda Medieval Turkic kaç aga %35-40 vardır herhaldeQuote:
Originally Posted by Demirkazık
Welcome back! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DomitiusAurelian
I've subtracted your ancestry. Shall I post your results here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max18
yea, why notQuote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
Alright!Quote:
Originally Posted by Max18
https://i.ibb.co/y5NRhkw/IMG-20230906-160840.jpgCode:Max_scaled,0.127482,0.074134,0.057699,0.053295,0.018773,0.011156,0.00611,0.010615,-0.001023,-0.01385,-0.000812,-0.007643,0.013677,0.008395,-0.005565,0.016971,0.017602,0.004814,0.001885,0.002251,-0.008735,-0.003586,0.003821,-0.001084,-0.001078
Dad,0.109780137,0.027965647,0.058866931,0.045646299,0.002347519,0.006877816,0.003624299,0.007390232,0.001490447,-0.012548575,0.001242386,-0.004169566,0.005731814,-0.002322077,-0.00292633,0.016083523,0.011487438,1.3869E-05,-0.000159946,0.003408204,-0.00546036,0.002442676,0.005353007,-0.004287188,-0.00014413
Mom,0.1343111,0.1262113,0.0674575,0.0550109,0.0371704,0.018886,0.0105681,0.01236,-0.0027482,-0.0174948,-0.0028266,-0.0081726,0.0147638,0.0180286,-0.0094454,-0.002946,0.0022044,0.0011046,0.004038,0.001618,-0.0026751,-0.0047066,0.0045102,-0.0048388,0.0006623
Noise,5.5706926,-2.8282622,-5.395758,3.0214114,-0.9487891,-1.707022,-0.9756314,0.752244,-0.3968717,1.1541927,-0.0227196,-1.4800896,3.4439568,0.5597671,0.6114196,10.3992925,10.7582859,4.2558701,-0.049989,-0.260484,-4.6699451,-2.4587446,-1.1060933,3.4741552,-1.3364227
Early_Bulgar,0.0844921,-0.1165335,0.0589304,0.0493156,-0.0437049,-0.0001119,0.0003026,0.0072331,-0.0024851,-0.0212453,0.0026067,-0.0059204,0.0094303,-0.01682,0.0143982,0.0235416,0.0003504,-0.0006366,-0.0035192,0.0017572,-0.0030738,0.0071264,0.0058148,-0.0051215,-0.0024396
Balkan,0.125205,0.148267,0.018102,-0.028101,0.029236,-0.016176,0.00141,-0.003231,0.008999,0.03262,0.005846,0.005095,-0.017691,-0.007844,-0.027551,0.003978,0.027772,0.005448,0.008547,-0.004877,-0.015473,0.004204,0.003328,0.006025,-0.00012
Slavic,0.130771,0.1310554,0.0801574,0.0800759,0.0412042,0.0269958,0.0086038,0.0131371,0.0021263,-0.0262209,-0.0027388,-0.0070118,0.0137546,0.0172405,-0.00994,0.0138528,0.0157579,-0.0020861,-0.0008607,0.0096484,-0.002957,-0.0038654,0.0058833,-0.0087322,0.0024824
https://i.ibb.co/Lv6fC2K/IMG-20230906-160900.jpg
Early Bulgar + Balkan (in your case) / Early Bulgar + Balkan + Anatolian + Caucasus = Early Volga Bulgar
J-M92's distribution:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...rwqQQ&usqp=CAU
In your case, it prolly came with the Balkan ancestry!
Awesome work! Very interesting results and as I understand a bit atypical for my dad. Very high percentage of Balkans. Although, interestingly enough, he always reminded others of a representative of finnish ethnicities: tall height (194 cm), very light skin, light brown hair, gray-green eyes.
Genotype and phenotype don't correlate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max18
Yeah, ofc. Studying genetics even at the most philistine level has opened my eyes to this fact, even though it's probably pretty obvious to many.Quote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
The statement that "genotype and phenotype are not correlated" is largely incorrect, depending on the context in which it is made.Quote:
Originally Posted by axlredneck
Genotype vs Genome
It's important to distinguish between the "genotype" and the "genome." The genome encompasses the complete set of an individual's genetic material. The genotype, on the other hand, often refers to a more limited set of genetic variations relevant to a specific trait or set of traits. For example, the specific alleles you have for a gene determining eye color constitute a genotype for that particular trait.
In the context of commercial genetic tests like 23andMe, the term "genotype" can be misleading. These tests only cover about 0.2% of an individual's genetic variations, making it more appropriate to talk about the genome as a whole rather than the genotype when discussing the basis for various traits and characteristics.
Correlation between Genotype and Phenotype
The correlation between genotype and phenotype can vary depending on the trait in question and its heritability. For traits that are strictly genetic, like certain monogenic diseases (caused by mutations in a single gene), the link between genotype and phenotype is very strong. For complex polygenic traits influenced by multiple genes and also by environmental factors (like height or intelligence), the relationship is more nuanced but still present.
The Impact of the Environment
The environment can also play a significant role in the expression of phenotype. For instance, two plants with the same genotype can have different phenotypes if one is grown in full sun and the other in shade.
Conclusion
Thus, it's incorrect to say that genotype and phenotype are not correlated. They are generally correlated, but the strength of this correlation can vary considerably depending on a range of factors, including environmental impact and the complexity of the trait in question. The phenotype is, in a way, a complex manifestation of the genome.
I believe what he meant is you can't make genotype assumptions based on phenotype and vice versaQuote:
Originally Posted by Flashball
Hello axlredneck. Your map is Steppe bull shit as Caucasian mountains around my parts were ruled by any nomads never in known history.